Latest / The Touch of a Mustang / How Horses Helped Her Face the Trauma She Couldn’t Unravel with Ruby Fremon | Episode 64

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How Horses Helped Her Face the Trauma She Couldn’t Unravel with Ruby Fremon | Episode 64 · The Touch of a Mustang

0:00
What were some of the things that you were seeing yourself
0:02
that were a result of the trauma that you'd experienced that the
0:06
horses then helped you to address?
0:08
When I would go to the ranch, I really felt calm, but there were
0:12
things in my body that were signaling that I wasn't, and
0:15
that was the awareness that the horses gave me.
0:17
Are there things that you found yourself doing that helped you
0:20
move out of that anxiety, besides recognizing it and
0:24
letting it be a little bit? I didn't realize how much I was
0:28
forcing and pushing my way through life because I've always
0:32
been again, quote UN quote successful.
0:34
I've always been able to make something out of nothing.
0:37
And I didn't realize that so much of that drive wasn't this
0:42
positive motivation. It was my trauma, a lot of.
0:44
Us think healing is this one time thing.
0:47
For me it was like unraveling. It started pulling one thread on
0:51
a ball of yarn and then all of a sudden all these threads started
0:54
popping out. And if I pulled one, then
0:57
another one would come out and and it was just a soft like
1:00
tugging of all of these different threads in my life.
1:04
And as I cultivated more safety or a sense of safety, then
1:10
another thread would appear. We developed these things to
1:12
keep ourselves safe, and that's what we need to do for that time
1:16
being. What was that like for you to
1:19
start going into that and letting go of some of that
1:23
protection that you held onto for so long?
1:25
The horses helped me the most with that.
1:27
There are healers on this planet with the power to soften the
1:30
suffering of mankind, yet they have remained in the recesses of
1:34
the world, abused, discarded and labeled as trash.
1:38
This is the touch of a Mustang. I am your host, Shalise Clough,
1:43
and I'm here to tell the story of wild horses, Mustangs, and
1:47
the humans who are discovering and sharing their gifts while
1:50
working to protect their well-being and preserve their
1:53
spirit so this divine power won't be lost.
1:57
Join us on this quest with the wild Mustang.
2:05
Ruby. Thank you so much for joining me
2:08
on the Touch of a Mustang Podcast.
2:10
Chili's thank you so much for having me.
2:12
I am really looking forward to hearing more about your story,
2:14
especially because I felt that a lot of what you have to share
2:18
resonated with me and that is that horses were kind of there
2:22
in a very pivotal moment of your life.
2:25
Yeah, and I think that that's the story for a lot of people
2:28
who are coming into the horse space now.
2:30
Can you tell everybody a little bit about yourself and what you
2:34
do, and then we can talk about your journey?
2:37
Yeah, my name is Ruby Framon and I am a Trauma healing guide.
2:40
My titles include a Somatic Experiencing practitioner in
2:44
training, a certified life coach, and LP practitioner.
2:47
But what I actually really do with clients is I help them feel
2:53
safe in their bodies again so that they can remember who they
2:55
are and lead from that place of authentic expression.
2:59
Beautiful. Tell us a little bit about your
3:02
journey with horses, how you first came to be involved with
3:05
them and where that led. Yeah, I didn't grow up with
3:07
horses. I just remember even as a child,
3:11
anytime I would see them, I was that that girl that would run up
3:14
to them and touch him when you're not supposed to.
3:19
And then it wasn't until 2023 when I was looking for an
3:25
opportunity to just like, give back.
3:27
I was in the midst of a massive traumatic experience.
3:31
I wanted to surround myself with the presence of animals because
3:35
animals have always, always felt very calming to me when people
3:39
didn't. And because the trauma involved
3:42
my dog, and usually I would gravitate towards dogs, I
3:45
decided to try horses because why not?
3:47
So I started volunteering at a therapeutic ranch and it just
3:51
opened my eyes too much. Presence of the horses, their
3:57
quiet nature, their wisdom, and the way in which they are just
4:02
so sincere in their reflections really helped me heal.
4:06
I don't think I understood just how much trauma was stuck in my
4:12
body until I went there and would notice how they responded
4:18
or reacted to me. And so through my work at the
4:21
therapeutic ranch alongside with continuing, continuing my
4:25
education and somatic experiencing, I began to see
4:28
this other opportunity to work with horses in a holistic,
4:32
therapeutic way that didn't involve riding, that didn't
4:35
involve forcing them to do things that they weren't ready
4:38
to do. But really just working
4:40
alongside them as a quiet presence to mirror back what
4:45
people are not quite ready to or haven't yet seen in themselves.
4:50
Because that's what happened with me and my experience.
4:53
And so that's when I started weaving together my work with
4:57
horses as my Co facilitator. And I'm still in the beginning
5:00
of stages of this and learning something new every single day,
5:04
learning how to work with horses in a very humane way.
5:07
And it's just opened my eyes to this whole other way of being in
5:10
the world where everything doesn't have to be so forced.
5:14
Like we can actually move through the world with more
5:16
gentleness and humility and presencing ourselves to what is
5:22
here now. Go as much in depth or as little
5:25
as you would like. What were some of the things
5:28
that you were seeing yourself that were a result of the trauma
5:31
that you'd experienced that the horses then helped you to
5:35
address? Yeah, I didn't realize how much
5:38
anxiety I was holding. I didn't.
5:41
It was interesting because I knew I had PTSD, but I wasn't
5:44
really sure. I guess I couldn't grasp how it
5:46
was showing up in my body. And so when I would go to the
5:48
ranch, I really felt calm. But there were things in my body
5:53
that were signaling that I wasn't.
5:55
And that was the awareness that the horses gave me because I
5:58
would go and you know, there's this horse named Hercules, an 18
6:02
hand Belgian. And I just absolutely adored
6:05
him. But some days he would just look
6:07
at me and be like, uh huh, pin ears, walk away.
6:10
And it really made me question how I was showing up because
6:13
again, cognitively, I could say that I was showing up in a calm,
6:18
peaceful manner, but obviously my body language was saying
6:22
something else and communicating something else.
6:24
So that told me and also helped me realize that there's still a
6:28
lot more for me to heal and that I get to do it in layers.
6:33
Because I think there's always this rush to heal and feel
6:36
better and get better and get back to to business and work.
6:40
Because I had to let my entire business go and there was that
6:43
sense of I need to just get healed and get back to what I
6:47
was doing and their reflections and they kept reflecting it for
6:51
months on. And you're not ready.
6:54
You're not ready. Your body is telling us
6:56
something else. And that I use that as an
6:58
invitation to continue diving deeper into my own.
7:02
I love that using it as an invitation and that really
7:05
resonates with me. When I got my first Mustang, I
7:09
have like an aha moment like how much anxiety I was carrying.
7:13
I had no idea how much anxiety that I was just holding on to.
7:17
So it's something that I haven't heard a lot of people talk about
7:20
in my conversations, but I found the same thing that they can
7:24
really bring that awareness that maybe we didn't even realize
7:28
what we were carrying and. There was something neat to
7:31
that. I started exploring with one of
7:33
my horse mentors who taught me about the importance of
7:36
congruence with horses. And it's not that they're
7:39
reading the anxiety and saying we don't want to be around the
7:42
anxiety. They were reading the dissonance
7:45
between like how I was showing up and the identity that I was
7:48
wearing versus what they were reading in my body and it wasn't
7:52
matching. And so I started to learn to
7:55
drop that identity slowly. Articles of clothing like you
7:59
just slowly start take layers off.
8:01
And if I just presented myself, my anxious self or my sad self
8:07
or the self that was really grieving the horses, they
8:11
welcomed me and they could be in my presence.
8:14
But it was any time I, I turned the identity on.
8:17
And this was so subtle. I didn't even know that I was
8:19
doing it. I mean, I've been quote UN quote
8:22
in the work for so long. I've been a life coach since
8:25
2014. So there was also that ego piece
8:29
that I had to just dissolve and just show up with humility and
8:33
say, this is where I'm at. So often there were shifts where
8:37
I would be shoveling horse poop and crying and the horses were
8:41
fine with that, but they weren't fine with was when I would try
8:44
and put on a mask and be appear as something that I wasn't.
8:48
And that was really, I think that was one of the biggest
8:51
gifts they gave me. They really taught me about
8:53
congruence and how to how it's OK to show up just as you are
8:58
and it can be safe to show up just as you are.
9:00
Yeah, that's so interesting because in the human world, we
9:03
really value those masks. You know, it's kind of like we
9:05
get really uncomfortable when someone starts having a
9:08
breakdown like that or whatever, and you don't get that with the
9:11
horses. It is just, they're just all
9:14
right. Do your thing.
9:15
Yeah, they don't judge you. They don't try and fill the void
9:19
with contacts that doesn't exist.
9:21
They just see it and they respond to it and that's it.
9:24
Yeah. Are there things that you found
9:26
yourself doing that helped you move out of that anxiety,
9:29
besides kind of recognizing it and just letting it be a little
9:33
bit? Well, at the same time, I was
9:36
doing a lot of therapy with my therapist, who is also a somatic
9:39
experiencing practitioner. So I was both going through the
9:42
SCP program. I'm still in it while also
9:45
receiving it and I because I started dropping pieces of my
9:49
work until I basically had no business left.
9:52
I started filling that space with more time at the ranch,
9:56
more time with the horses, or more self-care, which involved
10:01
really just slowing down. I didn't realize how much I was
10:05
forcing and pushing my way through life because I've always
10:08
been, again, quote UN quote successful.
10:10
I've always been able to make something out of nothing.
10:14
And I didn't realize that so much of that drive wasn't like
10:19
this positive motivation. It was my trauma and the the
10:23
little girl in me that had to take care of herself.
10:26
So she had to force and push her way through life and watching
10:29
how I mean, just observing the herd and watching how they work
10:33
together and move together and how it's not rushed unless we've
10:38
got treats in your in your pockets.
10:40
Yeah. But they're they're not rushing
10:44
and they're not forcing. They're just present in every
10:48
moment. And there's something so
10:50
beautiful about witnessing such large animals just being fully
10:55
present and then coming back to yourself and reflecting on all
10:59
the ways in which you haven't been present.
11:02
And not with shame, but with a curiosity of like, huh.
11:05
I wonder how life would look if I just started focusing on being
11:10
in the here and now and not always trying to rush to the
11:13
next thing which included my own healing.
11:15
Yeah, talk a little bit more about that because I think
11:18
you're right. A lot of us think healing is
11:20
like this one time thing, you have some experience and then
11:23
it's just easy going moving forward.
11:26
I found that, like you said, it happens in layers or steps or,
11:32
you know, even you overcome one thing that you struggled with
11:35
and then another thing comes up that you're like, now I need to
11:38
address that, talk a little bit more about that and how that
11:41
happened and unfolded for you. If you're like me, it's still a
11:45
process of kind of figuring life out.
11:47
You think, OK, we're in midlife, we should have it figured out.
11:51
Like that's more confusing now. Yeah, I feel like midlife is
11:54
actually when everything starts to hit.
11:58
Yeah. It really is.
12:00
It's like you're old enough to have the wisdom, but also now
12:04
ready enough to see the things that you didn't see before.
12:07
I feel like healing comes in layers.
12:09
Our psyche, our somas, our bodies, our minds, like they're
12:12
built for self preservation. So we are literally built to
12:17
preserve our life. And so everything that our body
12:20
does, our mind does, our thoughts, our beliefs, all of
12:24
these things are working to keep us alive.
12:26
And it's not always the healthiest ways that the body
12:30
does that, but the body learns how through our traumas.
12:34
And so for me, it was like the only way I can describe it is
12:38
like unraveling. Like I started pulling one
12:41
thread on a ball of yarn and then all of a sudden all these
12:44
threads started popping out. And if I pulled one, then
12:47
another one would come out. And it was just like a soft like
12:51
tugging of all of these different threads in my life.
12:55
And as I cultivated more safety or a sense of safety, then
13:00
another thread would appear because we can only go as deep
13:04
as as we feel safe. And so the healing journey, as
13:08
much as we want it to look unidirectional, where it's just
13:11
like we get to the end goal and we're healed.
13:13
Yay, we're done. Yeah, so that nice.
13:16
Yeah, it's, it's not like that, I mean, healing trauma.
13:20
Trauma isn't what happens to us. It's how our it's, it's the
13:23
imprint that is left in our body.
13:25
And quite often it's these stuck trauma responses that continue
13:30
to shift our behavior and identity as we grow.
13:33
But because we are still growing and evolving in life, we have
13:38
like we, we are put in situations where we can actually
13:42
acquire more trauma. And so the goal isn't to to
13:45
become immune to trauma. The goal is to continue to build
13:50
upon our capacity and our resilience.
13:53
Anytime we face our trauma and heal, we build capacity and we
13:58
build resilience and we build that sense of safety.
14:01
But again, that doesn't make us immune to experiencing trauma.
14:06
And we can even use an example of horses, like you can send one
14:09
horse to one trainer and the trainer traumatizes them, then
14:13
they go to another trainer that really helps them work through
14:16
the trauma. And now the horses like quote UN
14:19
quote fixed it feels safe against with humans again, it's
14:23
coming out of its shell, but then all of a sudden it has a
14:25
bad experience with another human and they're withdrawn
14:29
again. Like this is exactly what
14:31
happens to us. And the more comfortable I use
14:36
that word, but I'm not sure if that's the right word.
14:39
The more I accept it, the fact that I might be healing for a
14:43
long time, the easier it became for me to just be present in it
14:47
and allow my healing to unfold. And I think that if I hadn't
14:52
done that and I had just forced my way through it, I would have
14:55
bypassed a lot of important key lessons and insights and
15:00
opportunities for me to actually work through this on A not just
15:05
like a, a cognitive level, but a physical somatic level of
15:11
healing. And that's not to say that I'm,
15:13
I'm healed now. I'm not, I'm not presenting
15:15
myself as someone who is like healed.
15:18
I am healing and I am devoted to this path.
15:20
And I say that with both humility and also a lot of
15:24
compassion for myself, which is something that I wouldn't have
15:27
been able to do like five years ago.
15:29
I would have probably judged myself hard for being here.
15:32
Yeah. And I think that's so important,
15:34
that point that you made about how life doesn't necessarily
15:38
become easy as in there's no obstacles.
15:40
We don't have hard things to face, but we are building up our
15:44
ability, our capacity to handle them in healthier, better ways
15:48
as we lean into understanding ourselves more, becoming more in
15:53
touch with our bodies, with our emotions.
15:57
You talked about how you have this drive and motivation and
16:01
that was kind of a protective factor.
16:03
And I think that's true for a lot of us.
16:06
We developed these things to keep ourselves safe and, and
16:08
that's what we need to do for that time being.
16:11
What was that like for you to start kind of going into that
16:16
and letting go of some of that protection that you held on to
16:19
for so long? I would say, well, therapy of
16:23
course helped with that, but the horses helped me the most with
16:25
that. I would say like learning how to
16:27
work with them and have them as my Co facilitators and noticing
16:32
how any time I tried to apply that former identity or like
16:38
aspects or textures of that former self that was motivated
16:42
by a goal versus like by what's here, the horses responded to
16:47
that and it felt like we would disconnect.
16:50
That's the only way I could describe it.
16:52
It just felt like our connection would just break.
16:55
Whereas when I would show up and just be like, OK, I'm here.
17:00
I really in the depth of my bones, feel like this is the
17:03
work that I'm meant to be doing and I'm just going to allow it
17:05
to unfold. Our connection would be there.
17:08
Like I would feel fully connected with this herd of
17:11
horses that it felt like the opposite of what I experienced
17:17
in the human world where people often, you know, when you have
17:20
everything, when you have like a top rated podcast and you're
17:23
known for things and people like you, they want to come to you.
17:27
They want a piece of you, and I experienced that a lot.
17:30
So the more motivation and drive and push I put out into the
17:33
world, the the bigger I was, the more people I attracted to me.
17:38
But with horses is like the opposite.
17:40
You just have to show up as yourself.
17:43
And so not only did they show me that motivation doesn't have to
17:48
be attached to like this external goal, that it can be
17:52
something that's really internal and really soulful, but they
17:56
taught me that the drive doesn't have to be so hard and fast.
18:01
It can be really soft and gentle and subtle.
18:05
And the way that they would respond to me when I'd show up
18:07
in that way was it was like the human connection that I'd craved
18:11
my entire life, but also pushed away.
18:13
They were able to give that to me.
18:15
And then I started applying it in my human life, human life
18:19
with other humans. Yeah.
18:22
And I also started to notice a difference, you know, it's just
18:25
in the types of humans I choose to have around me now.
18:28
What was that like, letting go of all that?
18:32
Probably a place where you were feeling fulfillment to an
18:35
extent. You're feeling other people were
18:38
kind of giving you that positive feedback that you were doing
18:40
things so good, even though internally you knew like you
18:43
needed to change something. What was that like, letting go
18:46
of all of those worldly acclamations and encouragement
18:51
and positive reinforcement in favor of turning into yourself
18:54
and deciding to take care of the things that were arising?
18:58
That was the dark night of my soul.
19:02
Yeah, the second. I say Part 2 because I
19:05
experienced the first one in my early 20s, but this one was like
19:08
the one that really like it. It.
19:11
I'm on the tail end of it and it's been five years.
19:14
It just took a long time because I was gripping so tightly to
19:20
some identities that I didn't realize were still there.
19:22
I didn't know how much of my identity was built around what I
19:26
had accomplished. I didn't realize how much of my
19:28
identity was built around how people saw me or viewed me or
19:32
perceived me. And so when you let all of that
19:34
go, there was the physical letting go of my business.
19:38
I started with by letting go of my podcast, then I let go of my
19:42
mastermind and group programs and I held on to like private
19:45
clients. And then I let go of that and
19:47
soon there was nothing. And I had to ask myself the
19:49
question, who am I without any of this?
19:52
There was a point in time when I was so physically I'll during
19:55
this period where I could no longer go to the gym and I'm
19:59
like a self-proclaimed gym rat. So then it became who am I
20:03
without this identity of like this fit body?
20:06
Who am I without this group of people around me?
20:10
Who am I without these friends that I once had?
20:13
And I feel like that that is the essence of the dark night of the
20:16
soul. And that's what I went through.
20:18
And it was really hard. And there were times when I
20:20
would just go to the ranch to grieve because all I wanted was
20:24
a quiet presence. I don't want humans that would
20:27
interrupt my grief because it was too uncomfortable.
20:29
For them to sit with and they wanted to give advice.
20:32
I just, I just wanted the horses around me.
20:35
There was a lot of times I went to the ranch and cried and they
20:38
would just hold me energetically.
20:40
And also just that feeling of being welcomed just as you are,
20:45
like this puddle of nothingness. Yeah, It was like, you know, we
20:52
all want to be loved for who we are, but I think the problem is,
20:57
is that most of us don't know who we are because we've been so
21:01
busy trying to be who we think we need to be to get the love we
21:06
want. And so when we start to let go
21:09
of those pieces, there's this liminal state where you're just
21:12
kind of floating around and you don't know who you are.
21:15
You're meeting yourself on the other side of trauma, on the
21:17
other side of these accolades, on the other side of these
21:20
perceptions and self judgments. And you know, you're just,
21:24
you're meeting yourself for the first time.
21:26
And so I think it's important when you're in that liminal
21:29
space to just have like a soft space to land where you don't
21:34
have to worry about being judged.
21:36
And the horses were always that place for.
21:38
Yeah, definitely a plug for going to horses if you need to
21:41
cry. That's definitely something that
21:43
I also have done. I'm like, they're a good place
21:46
to go to kind of release that and and to be able to just let
21:50
it out and to grieve, like you said.
21:53
Talk a little bit more about how these changes affected you
21:58
physically. That's a big part of what the
22:00
work you do now. How did it affect you and what
22:03
are some things you did to overcome?
22:05
Yeah. So I've always been a firm
22:07
believer that our mental, emotional, spiritual and
22:10
physical health are completely interconnected.
22:13
And when one aspect is off it, it will affect all other aspects
22:19
of who we are. And so for me, my physical body
22:23
has always been very easily swayed by my emotional body.
22:28
And so as I was going through the trauma and processing the
22:32
traumatic event and just like really working through that, for
22:35
a while I was just stuck in fight.
22:37
And then there came a time when I completely collapsed, like
22:42
there was just no more fight. I had no energy.
22:44
I went into a dorsal vagal state and was catatonic, meaning
22:49
completely, utterly numb to the world completely.
22:53
And during that time, I believe is when my body started breaking
22:57
down. But because I was so
22:59
disassociated, it was hard for me to tell.
23:01
And then once I started coming back into my body through
23:04
somatic therapy, I started to notice and feel the changes.
23:09
And for someone who has been athletic her entire life, to
23:13
suddenly feel like my body is working against me, it's painful
23:20
to walk, It's painful to go up and down the stairs.
23:23
And I was thrust into a very early menopause.
23:27
My body just kind of like skipped everything.
23:29
So I was, I was thrust into that and I didn't know that's what
23:32
was going on because we as women don't talk about it.
23:35
And doctors, of course, gas lit that piece because I'm, I was
23:39
younger than most people when they go through it.
23:42
So there was like a multitude of things happening that caused my
23:46
body to become so inflamed. And I, I remember like when I
23:53
started volunteering at the fair therapy branch, that was when I
23:58
was still experiencing a lot of physical pain.
24:01
But for some reason, when I would be there, I could shovel
24:04
poop for hours and, and walk, you know, 10,000 steps back and
24:09
forth, getting all the horses, feeding them.
24:11
And there was like, this sense of aliveness in my body.
24:16
But anywhere else, I was detached from that.
24:19
So my work there really helped me anchor into hope.
24:23
Like, this isn't the end. My body is not falling apart.
24:26
I think it's just tired of holding, you know, the holding
24:29
pattern that we can often get stuck in.
24:32
And it needed to collapse and it needed to rest, and it needed to
24:36
find new ways to thrive that didn't involve having to, like,
24:44
hold something that wasn't true. And so that really aligned with
24:50
the whole aspect of, like, letting these identities go
24:54
because my body was physically holding all of these identities.
24:57
And then, of course, like doing a bunch of work on my hormones
25:01
and figuring out what was what because I was having a lot of
25:05
complex PTSD symptoms like instantaneous memory loss,
25:09
forgetting where I was, but I was also having hormonal memory
25:13
loss. And so the more work I did on my
25:16
mental and emotional health, the more I was able to discern
25:19
between what was what. And so slowly, I just started
25:23
putting the pieces back together.
25:24
But again, like in the past, I would have rushed this process.
25:29
Like, my body's not feeling good.
25:30
Let's force it to feel good. Let's do this.
25:32
Let's force it to go to the gym. Let's force it to work out.
25:35
Let's force it to do all these cleanses and diets and all these
25:38
things to just get it back to a state of homeostasis.
25:41
But at this point, my body was like, actually what we need is
25:45
to just chill out and like not do anything and just rest and
25:49
sleep and nourish ourselves and not deplete ourselves through
25:54
water fasts and, you know, all sorts of other types of
25:57
cleanses. And so that's what I did.
25:59
I just took my time. And it was excruciatingly
26:02
frustrating to do so because I'm not used to taking so much time
26:06
to do things. But in that process, I learned a
26:09
lot about my body and the wisdom it carries and that we truly do
26:14
have different chapters of life in our bodies and we're not
26:18
meant to use them in the same ways as we did when we were
26:22
younger. So I've learned to approach life
26:25
with more respect to my body in my actual physical capacity
26:29
versus trying to continue to force it to move in ways it
26:33
doesn't want to or to force it into a state of illness.
26:37
You know, I just, I look at it as it was like I was really
26:40
taking my time to nourish my body to repair itself for saying
26:44
versus like forcing all the pieces back together.
26:47
Yeah, it's so interesting because rest for sure is
26:51
something that we don't really value very much.
26:53
You know, it's always go and do more.
26:57
And so that's something that I also found like I would feel
27:01
guilty resting, like I should be doing something instead of being
27:04
like, no, that's exactly what you should be doing.
27:07
But I also think it's so valuable to lean into being able
27:11
to fill those different things. I think we're taught in our
27:14
culture, society to, you know, repress emotions, to ignore
27:20
things in our body instead of being curious or even thinking
27:23
about them. And it sounds like, and
27:26
something I also found as the horses kind of help you to see
27:29
like, oh, wait, hold on. You know, you need to go back a
27:32
couple steps because back here is where the problem is
27:35
originating. Yeah.
27:37
And. They really show you what it's
27:40
like to be present in your awareness because I think it's
27:44
really easy for humans to just skip to what's ahead of us or
27:47
focus on what's behind us and not really know what's happening
27:51
in our bodies in this moment in time.
27:53
But when we understand that, like, for example, me coming to
27:56
acceptance of like, this is where I'm at and my, my
27:59
womanhood, like this is now where I'm at versus trying to
28:02
force my way past that or bypass that completely, that acceptance
28:07
really helped me find ways to then thrive in this era of my
28:12
life. Yeah, talk a little bit more
28:14
about acceptance because that's something, it's probably
28:17
something that I'm like, oh, this is such an important
28:20
principle that I just have been fighting for so long.
28:23
How did that help once you kind of did accept it that this is
28:28
your reality instead of wishing for it to be different or like
28:31
you say, trying to force it to be different?
28:33
How did that acceptance help things to change?
28:36
I'll start by saying I didn't realize that I spent a huge
28:38
chunk of my dark night trying to go back to who I was, like
28:45
trying to heal so I could be who I was.
28:47
There was a definite lack of acceptance that things were
28:51
changing and that I feel like that's what prolonged the
28:54
process for sure was my grip on like, I just need to go back to
28:59
the way things were. I want to be who I was.
29:02
Once I started to be more present with what was happening,
29:06
I started to look at it as chapters of life, like like a
29:10
book, like, OK, now it maybe it's not about going back.
29:14
Maybe I'm meant to go forward with a different type of
29:18
capacity energetically, physically and in a different
29:23
way. And maybe that's the point.
29:25
And it was like, the more I accepted that piece of I'm never
29:30
going to be who I was, but that part of me will always be part
29:35
of me, the easier it became to unravel, to let go of the
29:41
identities, to welcome my my truth and, and really the truest
29:48
expression of who I am to come to the surface and to also let
29:53
that part of me be seen. I was just talking to one of my
29:56
best friends yesterday who was laughing at one of my Instagram
30:00
stories. And she was like, I love it when
30:02
you show up like this. And I said, yeah, you know,
30:03
what's interesting is like, I never used to show my funny side
30:07
online, but I'm awkward and funny in real life.
30:11
But now like that, I have no identities left.
30:13
I'm kind of like, I don't really care.
30:15
Like this is just all of me. And if you, if you like it, you
30:19
like. And if you don't, OK, cool.
30:21
Like just keep going. Like a horse.
30:23
If they don't like it, they will just walk away.
30:25
Walk away. They'll go to a different
30:26
corner. Yeah.
30:27
Over it. You know, when enough horses
30:29
have done that to you, you start to not take it personally.
30:32
So yeah, it's just, I really feel like the process of
30:36
acceptance has so much to do with acknowledging where you're
30:39
at and what's actually happening versus what was, and then
30:43
understanding that there is a future.
30:47
It's just it can look different. Can you accept what's happening
30:51
in the here and now? And once we do, we gain the
30:53
ability to move forward. But if we don't accept and we're
30:56
in denial or we're trying to fight for what was, that's when
31:00
we get stuck. And I was stuck in that stage of
31:03
My Dark Knight for a really long time.
31:05
It was actually Chloe, who you had on the show, who told me she
31:08
was like, what? What if everything is going to
31:10
look really different? And I was just like, Chloe,
31:13
don't tell me that. Like when?
31:14
She don't want it to like, don't.
31:15
Tell me that and I and I had recorded that conversation with
31:19
her and I ended up re listening to it like 6 months later and I
31:22
was like now I know what she's talking about now I know.
31:25
Yeah, it is really interesting. I experienced the same thing
31:28
where, you know, I had this vision for what I wanted life to
31:30
be like and nothing, you know, turned out the way that I
31:33
thought it would be. And I think that we often knew
31:36
that it's a very human thing to be so, so in our minds to just
31:41
absolutely torture ourselves with those thoughts of how
31:44
things should have been or how you wish they were different or
31:47
how you want them to be. What are some things that you
31:50
did to kind of lean into that acceptance to be like, OK, I'm
31:54
going to be OK being where I actually am instead of living in
31:57
my head in a different place and torturing myself because that's
32:01
not my reality right now. I think it was a couple things.
32:04
One, there was like this external reflection that was
32:07
presenting itself through the people who were in my life.
32:10
But now exiting. And I mean, when you go through
32:13
a dark night, you really start to get clear on who's who's
32:16
meant to be by your side. And I really do believe that
32:20
every relationship serves a purpose, but not all
32:24
relationships are meant to be there forever.
32:27
And so as I started to lose a lot of people that reflected
32:31
back to me, that gave me a lot of information and also helped
32:35
me see who was there for me, but then also opened my eyes to the
32:38
people who started showing up for me.
32:41
And then that translated into, well, if, if these different
32:45
people are showing up for me, maybe there's a different
32:47
opportunities, maybe there are different paths.
32:50
And with the horses from the therapy ranch, I was referred to
32:53
a woman who had just purchased 14 acres and had a herd of three
32:58
and a mini donkey. And she was like, I'd love for
33:01
you to come and work here and you can do your work here and
33:04
see clients. And I wasn't able to do that at
33:06
the Therapy Ranch because they were a PATH certified ranch and
33:09
I preferred to do somatic experiencing.
33:12
So I moved there. And I mean, that opportunity
33:14
would have never presented itself had I been so stuck on my
33:17
vision of what my business was prior to that.
33:20
And so it was just little experiences like that that
33:24
started to slowly open my eyes to different ways of moving
33:29
forward in life that look nothing like what I had planned.
33:33
I wouldn't say it was like one thing.
33:34
I think it was like a bunch of different things that started to
33:37
show up from people to, of experiences to opportunities.
33:42
And then me realizing, wow, OK, what would happen if I just let
33:45
let these things happen and let these things unfold in my life.
33:49
And that's what I did. And slowly this new path started
33:54
being laid brick by brick. And I have no idea where it's
33:56
going. I really don't even right now, I
33:58
have no idea where it's going. And all I know is I absolutely
34:03
love being in the presence of horses.
34:05
I absolutely love working with them and doing my work alongside
34:08
them. That is annoying.
34:10
How things are going to come into fruition or how they're
34:14
going to be shaped, I don't know.
34:16
And five years ago that would have really been hard.
34:19
I'm not saying it's not hard. It's very challenging right now,
34:22
but I'm in a deeper acceptance, like it's challenging and I
34:26
accept the challenge. I'm just letting life unfold.
34:29
Yeah. And it's kind of funny because
34:30
really none of us know where our future is going to lead, but we
34:34
really think we do. And we become really attached to
34:36
where we think it should be. And then turns out that's pretty
34:39
painful if it doesn't unfold that way.
34:42
But I think when we can live in reality, live where we're at, we
34:47
start to see the beauty of how it turned out differently, not
34:50
how we expected or not how we maybe even worked for and
34:53
planned on. But yet there's still good
34:56
there, and new things that we might not have even thought of.
35:00
Yeah. And so much of that has to do
35:02
with letting go of control, which has to do with learning to
35:05
feel safe in the world. You know, we try to control the
35:08
world around us and our vision and our future because we don't
35:12
feel safe. That's where that comes from.
35:14
So the more safety you can cultivate from within, the
35:17
easier it is to be accepting of this concept that you can just
35:22
lay your path down brick by brick.
35:24
You don't have to have the whole path laid out for you.
35:26
Yeah. And it's also so interesting
35:28
because I find so many commonalities in what you've
35:31
been through, so many patterns. And I feel like, why does nobody
35:34
talk about this? Why was this such a shock to me?
35:37
Because it seems like almost a typical life path of some things
35:42
that happens in different stages of life.
35:45
Yeah, I think people don't talk about it because, I don't know,
35:49
I think women don't talk about it enough because there is still
35:52
like so much mystery in this weird midlife space, liminal
35:57
space of life. And there's also a lot of
35:59
projection in that space. But we also do a lot of shaming
36:02
and self judgment when we're going through it.
36:05
But I think the more that we have conversations like this,
36:07
the more the easier it becomes to remove that judgment because
36:11
we realize, like, other people are going through it too or have
36:13
been through it. This is just a part of the cycle
36:16
of life. Talk a little bit more about
36:18
about shame and how that impacted you and also how you
36:20
overcame that because that was also a huge one for me that like
36:24
really kept me stuck and really beating myself up a lot because
36:27
of the shame that I felt. It is something I have been
36:33
familiar with my entire life. I grew up in a culture that was
36:40
very much about shame and ego. Bringing shadows to the family
36:46
name, having to hold up the cultural standards.
36:51
It was a lot of that. And so shame was something that
36:53
I was very, very accustomed to feeling.
36:55
And I would probably even go as far as to say I was carrying
37:00
shame pretty much my entire life.
37:02
And so when I started going through this recent dark night,
37:08
there was another layer of shame involved that was really coming
37:13
from this place of I should know better because of the work that
37:17
I do. Like you would think that
37:19
someone who's been in the healing space for so many years
37:22
would just instantly know what to do, but I had no idea what to
37:26
do. And the shame kicked in around
37:29
that. And then I felt like, well, who
37:30
am I to be doing this work if I can't even get myself out of
37:33
this? Like, who am I to be leading
37:35
people? And, and it was just a complete
37:37
deconstruction. And shame is, you know, the
37:40
densest, heaviest energy for us to carry.
37:44
And it really feels like that. It's like a dark heavy cloak.
37:48
And I really feel and believe that the only one of the, the
37:54
greatest ways to work through our shame is to have someone
37:57
witness us without judgment, because shame really comes from
38:01
that judging the judgmental place within us and within
38:04
others. So if you can have someone
38:06
witness you, a friend, a therapist, someone people around
38:09
you who can just see you and validate your experience and
38:13
acknowledge what you're going through.
38:15
They don't have to understand it, but for them to validate,
38:18
yeah, this is like a lot for anyone to carry or go through.
38:23
You can instantly, there's like a you can instantly relax your
38:26
shoulders drop. You're like, Oh my God, someone
38:28
actually is validating that this shit is hard and then you stop
38:33
shaming yourself. And so I do believe like healing
38:36
really happens in in front of in one being witnessed by people
38:42
who are compassionate and empathetic.
38:44
And so that was what really helped me.
38:46
And it was a couple of my best friends who they're now my best
38:50
friends and my therapist who were able to hold me through
38:53
that and witness me, me through that and my husband without
38:56
judgment. Because we're so busy judging
38:58
ourselves that the shame becomes super dense and it becomes hard
39:01
to see what's what, like what's actually true.
39:04
So if we can have someone actually go in and shed some
39:06
light on what's going on and be like, no, what you're going
39:09
through is really a lot, we can just let go of that shame for a
39:13
minute, yeah. It's so heavy.
39:15
Do you have any advice for people who might be carrying
39:17
that and maybe don't feel like they have those safe supports in
39:20
their life? Yeah, go find a herd of horses.
39:24
It's no joke, honestly. Yeah, go find a herd of horses
39:28
and go, go just plop a chair down, sit in front of them
39:31
because they won't judge you. But I think this is also why a
39:33
lot of people gravitate towards animals and say animals are so
39:36
healing. Doesn't have to be a horse.
39:37
It can be any animal. But horses are great.
39:39
You know, this is where it can be hard because I think when
39:42
people find themselves in spaces where they don't feel seen by
39:46
their friends when they're going through a challenging time, then
39:48
that's probably a sign that that friendship isn't going to make
39:52
it through. And that in itself holds a lot
39:57
of grief. And we can often internalize
39:59
that and then create shame around that.
40:01
Like, I'm not good enough for my friends.
40:02
They're all leaving me. They're abandoning me.
40:04
And you start to feel even more shame.
40:06
And that's when I say you have to just start looking elsewhere,
40:09
you know, And if that is like hiring professional help, hire
40:11
professional help, but put yourself in environments that
40:15
really foster compassion and kindness.
40:19
So that you can begin seeing yourself with compassion and
40:22
kindness. So if you don't have it in your
40:24
life, please seek it out. And and for me like that did
40:28
start with the horses, start with me volunteering at a
40:31
therapeutic ranch. Yeah, it really is so tricky
40:33
because it's like here I need these supports and I need my
40:37
identity to keep my people in place, but I'm restructuring my
40:40
identity so these people are leaving and, you know, what am I
40:42
left with? I think those are some really
40:45
good suggestions of things that that anyone can do.
40:48
And you know, truly, if if there's not people, there are
40:51
animals for sure. Talk to us a little bit more
40:56
about your ancestral connection with horses.
40:58
That's something you mentioned that I wanted to talk about.
41:01
Yeah, it's really interesting because I, so I'm Punjabi and
41:06
Sikh religion and yeah, I would say like I was in a devout Sikh,
41:11
but I went to Sikh school when I was younger and I studied
41:14
Sikhism and I did my prayers every day until like my first
41:18
dark night of the soul when I was around 22.
41:21
And I was like, God, nothing is working out.
41:24
And then I just went completely silent with God for a long time.
41:29
And so Sikhism was always, it's always been here.
41:34
But what I didn't start noticing until I started working with
41:37
horses was how all the depictions of horses in our
41:41
artwork and with alongside our gurus, I never, it's like my
41:46
eyes would see the horses, but never registered.
41:49
Oh my God, that's a horse. So horses are part of her
41:52
lineage. And so as I started working with
41:54
horses, I started becoming more and more connected to my
41:57
religion again and learning more about our connection and our
42:01
heritage with horses and our horses.
42:03
Actually, the way that our gurus worked with them was in
42:06
partnership. Like they really held reverence
42:10
to our horses and they rode our horses to battle.
42:13
The horses helped in so many ways, but they were treated with
42:16
respect and reverence as partners to our gurus.
42:21
And they say that so sava, that term Sava that people often use
42:26
selfless service that comes from Sikhism.
42:29
So that is a foundation, foundational principle of our
42:32
religion is to engage in Sava. And they say that doing sava for
42:36
a horse for a year is the equivalent of 10 years of Sava.
42:41
And that's just because of how much we owe horses who rode our
42:45
gurus, who are gurus, rode into battle and really supported us
42:50
through times of of hardship and war in our country.
42:54
And so the more that I started to recognize that, the more I
42:58
realized that this connection that I had with horses and the
43:03
ease in which I was experiencing how to be around them wasn't
43:08
just like a natural gift. It was this innate knowing
43:14
passed down from my ancestors of how to be with them.
43:17
And despite how, you know, there was a lot of things that I saw
43:21
in the horse world I didn't like.
43:23
I don't like force being used on horses.
43:25
I think there's another way. And I could never really
43:28
understand why that felt so deeply agitating when I would
43:32
see it and upsetting. But then tying it back to my
43:35
religion and the way that we really hold reverence to our
43:38
horses made sense because I was like, we treat them with love
43:42
and we treat them with respect and we owe them our lives.
43:45
And, you know, our future really had so much to do with how they
43:49
showed up for us during those times of battle.
43:52
So there's still so much more that I'm I'm learning about our
43:56
lineage, but it's been wild to see just how deep this
44:02
connection really is and that recognition that the horses have
44:07
always been part of my blood. Maybe not this lifetime, but
44:12
they've always been part of my blood.
44:14
Yeah, that's beautiful because I think when you're around horses,
44:18
especially in maybe not doing and having your mind busy doing
44:23
stuff, but just kind of present with them, it really is a
44:25
spiritual experience. I would say where you kind of
44:28
enter a different dimension or even just that present dimension
44:33
where a lot of the things that you're maybe worried about or
44:37
are weighing heavy on, you really do just seem to go away
44:40
for that moment. Definitely have found it also to
44:43
be a very spiritual experience. It's really beautiful.
44:46
Also something I'm like so interesting to look at the
44:48
history. I that's something I would love
44:50
to look more at. Tell us about the work that
44:54
you're doing now with horses. Yeah, The work that I do now is
44:57
equine assisted somatic experiencing, which I call
45:01
Equia. And we don't ride horses, we
45:05
don't force them to do anything. So I prefer working with like
45:08
free range herds. What it is is really observing
45:11
the herd and observing ourselves O In observing the herd we
45:16
observe asects of our self and also just seeing what shows U
45:20
for us. So that can look like coming
45:22
into the the pasture and just seeing which horse wants to
45:27
approach and what that brings up for a client.
45:30
And that in itself offers enough context for me to work with.
45:34
Say they had an attachment to a specific horse coming forward
45:38
and that horse doesn't come forward.
45:39
In fact, that horse might pin their ears and be like, I don't
45:42
want to have anything to do with you.
45:43
Well, then that client might experience an activation of
45:47
their abandonment wound and right there we have something to
45:50
work with. And so we don't really need the
45:51
horses to do anything. We just, it's just their
45:54
presence. And to me, that form of
45:57
partnership makes so much sense, more so than doing trauma work
46:02
with clients, human clients, while like traumatizing the
46:05
horses by forcing them to do things like that never made
46:08
sense to me. So working with them in a way
46:11
where I can also show like, this is what it's like to be around
46:15
these very large animals safely and also respectfully because
46:21
isn't that what we want for ourselves as well?
46:23
To have our boundaries respected, to have our space
46:26
respected and not to be forced or pushed to do anything.
46:29
And so I weave in the the work of somatic experiencing, which
46:33
is really less about the context of the trauma and more about how
46:36
that trauma has imprinted in the body.
46:39
So holding patterns, we might be stuck that often like a lot of
46:43
people, women especially, can have a really deep unconscious
46:46
fawning response. They're always pleasing.
46:49
But again, like horses don't respond to that because it's
46:52
incongruent. And so to see how that pattern
46:55
gets disrupted in the yield and for them to experience that is
46:59
really powerful. And then we start to work with
47:01
that and how that's showing up in the body.
47:03
What are you noticing in your body right now?
47:05
Like, my stomach's really tight, and I'm breathing really
47:08
heavily. OK, Like, let's just look back
47:10
at the herd and just notice what's happening with the herd.
47:13
And they're able to almost, like, safely exit the body, not
47:17
in a dissociative way, but in a way where they can observe the
47:20
herd, but they're actually observing themselves, if that
47:22
makes sense. And then we can return to the
47:24
body with a deeper sense of safety.
47:27
So that's the work that I do and absolutely love.
47:31
Like it just feels like everything in my life has led me
47:34
to this moment. And this makes so much sense.
47:36
Yeah. And I really love the idea of
47:39
working with them as my Co facilitators and partners versus
47:43
like the horses that do things for me.
47:45
Yeah, and so beautiful because it sounds like you had no idea
47:48
that this is the path that you would go down.
47:50
Not, I mean, I joke around with my husband often because when we
47:54
first met, I was like club promoter, nightlife promoter,
47:58
doing being together, you know, thousand person raves, things
48:01
like that, you know, wearing mini skirts and, and oh, it was
48:04
so different. And I was like, did you ever
48:06
think that the girl that you fell in love with would end up
48:11
wanting to get acres and get horses and he'd immediately go
48:15
never, never in a million years. But you know, here we are in
48:19
Montana doing that now. So it's, it's beautiful to let
48:24
go of the reins of, of how we thought we wanted our lives to
48:28
unfold so that we can actually open ourselves up to the magic
48:32
of, of what wants to unfold. Yeah.
48:34
Are there horses in your background that you especially
48:37
remember that left and particular impact on you?
48:40
Hercules is definitely one of them.
48:42
He was the biggest horse I had the opportunity to work with up
48:46
until that point. And he was, he's a retired
48:50
police horse. So, you know, he's very strong
48:54
in his personality and he will let you know when he doesn't
48:58
want to do something. And I when I was at that ranch,
49:02
I was shown how to get him to do things.
49:06
But as soon as I started just following him and leading by
49:11
understanding his behavior and respecting his nose versus
49:16
trying to force his no to be a yes, I noticed that he started
49:19
to respect me more. And so that taught me a lot
49:22
about life and relationships. And then another horse, this was
49:26
with the my friends heard that I was actually working with with
49:31
clients. This horse was Tori and she's
49:33
another half draft horse and she has ring Hock and ring bone and
49:39
also just aging. And it was a small herd of
49:44
three. And so the other two horses
49:47
being pre animals, they were kind of like, OK, well, let's
49:49
just push her out of the herd. But I took that so personally
49:53
and I would project and say they're bullying her.
49:55
And it really took a lot for me to understand these are horses
49:58
just being horses. And then of course, like she
50:01
started feeling better when she was put on the right medication
50:03
and then the herd became a herd again.
50:06
And I don't know that just left like Tori continued being Tori
50:11
throughout that. Like from being what I perceived
50:14
bullied by the herd to then being welcomed back into the
50:19
herd. Like she was just Tori the whole
50:21
time. Nothing changed and she was just
50:24
being herself. Even when she was in so much
50:26
pain, she was just showing it. And that taught me a lot about
50:29
how you can just be who you are and you will be accepted by hurt
50:39
humans. You know the.
50:40
Right ones. Yeah, the right ones, I feel
50:42
like every horse has left an impression, but those are the
50:45
two that really, really stand out.
50:48
But I, you know, I love them all.
50:49
Yeah. They're pretty amazing.
50:51
Thank you so much for sharing so much of your story and so much
50:54
of your experience. Can you tell everybody if they
50:57
want to take advantage of your services or work with you?
50:59
Where can they find you? Where, yeah, can they go to
51:02
learn more about you and those things that you're doing?
51:04
Yeah, the best place would be my website rubyfreeman.com, that's
51:09
FREMON. And then you can also go on my
51:12
Instagram, which is Ruby dot framelen and my sub stack link
51:16
is linked both on the website and on my Instagram.
51:19
And from those two places, you'll be able to find all of my
51:22
offerings and services and also my writing.
51:24
Beautiful. Well, thank you so much for
51:26
being here, for sharing your story and your experiences as we
51:29
kind of talked about something that a lot of people go through
51:31
and not everyone necessarily wants to talk about.
51:33
But I think by having conversations like this, by you
51:37
sharing your personal experiences, it really can be a
51:40
service to other people and to help them know like there is a
51:44
path forward. There's a way through this, no
51:46
matter how dark and horrible it feels sometimes that there are
51:50
things that you can do to help you get through it and to make
51:54
forward movement. And I think you really shared a
51:56
lot of those things that helped you, so I appreciate it so much.
51:59
Yeah, thank you so much for for having this conversation with me
52:02
and for having me on your podcast.
52:04
Thank you for joining us and learning about horses that Heal
52:07
and the humans who help them. We hope you'll continue with us
52:11
on this journey. We'd love for you to subscribe
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Please share with your friends anyone who loves horses or
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anyone who might be struggling and could benefit from this
52:24
message. If you have felt the healing
52:26
power of horses or help them in their divinely appointed
52:30
mission, please reach out. We want to hear your story as we
52:34
say goodbye. Always remember that the horse
52:36
is always there to help you heal.
52:42
Our emotions are such an important part of how we respond
52:46
to life, and if you've been around horses, you'd know that
52:49
the emotions you have impact the horses.
52:52
But not just horses, your emotions also impact yourself
52:56
and those around you. If you would like to have
52:58
greater awareness and regulation of your emotions, check out my
53:04
guided resources. I have one on the Touch of a
53:07
Mustang Kofi page which will be linked below.
53:10
I also have a guided journal that is Emotional Mastery for
53:14
Horsemanship that shares how you can use your emotions to benefit
53:19
your time with your horse. And for those who don't have
53:22
horses or would like to work more on your emotional life
53:26
outside of horses, I have a guided journal called Emotional
53:30
Mastery on Amazon. They're all linked below.
53:32
I have had so many people reach out and tell me how much the
53:38
awareness of your emotions and the tracking of your emotional
53:42
state has helped them. And if it's something you're
53:45
looking for, it may just help you as well.