Latest / Sports Card Clubhouse / After The Card Shilling Scandal...Now What?

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After The Card Shilling Scandal...Now What? · Sports Card Clubhouse

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In our massive country, there are card collectors throughout
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the land participating in the hobby.
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There's Mike of Junk Wax Hero and Greg of Midlife Cards, and
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while distance may separate them, here is where they come
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together to talk cards. Oh boy, what a week, Mike, what
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a week. I wasn't here last week.
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I had some. I had some, I don't know about
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that. You guys did a great job.
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I, I had a couple of people reach out to me and they said
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everything OK, Because Mike said you had some stuff going on and
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you couldn't make the recording. So for all of you just, you
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know, antsy to hear what happened, the main water line
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from the city line to my house broke and was flooding my front
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yard. So I was out in the mud digging
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it up and then a plumber friend came over and helped me to fix
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it. So I wanted to be around but but
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it's all fixed, all is good. I I feel like I'm off the hook
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now for missing that one week. I felt guilty ever since then.
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Like Greg said, I miss a week to make me feel better and so
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thank. You for you know, that was one
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of the hardest parts for me, knowing that now you could feel
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OK. I'm sure.
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But you guys had a great conversation.
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Interesting. John Keating is, you know, that
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guy's entertainment on steroids and a lot has happened since we
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last recorded together. And I think, you know, everybody
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knows what's going on and, you know, everybody has shared some
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thoughts about it. I but I think that with all the
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drama, you know, going on and, and I guess that's maybe the
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question that we'll start with is, is this drama?
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Is it just hobby drama or is this important stuff?
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Where do, where do you, where do you stand on that?
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Because I think some people would say, no, this is really
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important and some people would say, this is just noise.
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Where are you? I'm in the middle, but I'm
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closer to really important. And I know you talked about how
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you don't want to talk about this stuff on your video.
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Was it yesterday? I watched it this morning, so
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we're. Recording this on 11/13 and that
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video posted 11/12. Yeah, and Mike Moynihan also
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posted a video where he talked about he doesn't want to talk
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about either. And I totally get your
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perspectives, both of you. I just feel like it is
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important. Now, I don't think the hobby is
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crumbling. I'm definitely not on that end
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of the spectrum. I don't think that this is life
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changing or I think maybe it has the potential to be hobby
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changing, although I, I think it's a little unlikely, but we
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often see things rumble through the hobby and then they're gone
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two or three days later. I think this one is going to
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have legs because there's it's so huge.
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And Doctor Beckett released a third video on it today. 1/3
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podcast on yesterday, Wednesday, it was a Monday, Wednesday,
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whatever, It's just third. I heard it, but yeah.
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And I don't think it made any improvements over what he had
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said in the first two. Maybe slight improvements, but
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it I don't feel like he understands what what the
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problem is. I don't know how tapped into the
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hobby in terms of like the public, the the hobbies Hobbby
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sphere, let's call it Doctor Beckett is how tapped into it he
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is. And most, I would say most
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people are not very tapped into it.
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I think that there is a small minority of people who are
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paying attention to this stuff who are on Twitter, they're on
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YouTube, they're on Instagram and paying attention to all the
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stuff that's happening. I think it's a it's a pretty
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small minority of people. But when big time people like
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Doctor Beckett and Patrick Ryan are talking about shield bidding
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and kind of giving it a voice that seems to many people to be
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saying more people do it than you think.
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And it's really not that bad is what a lot of people heard.
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And I think I, I, I want to believe that Doctor Beckett is
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misunderstood. And so when we're going on the
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way, he's on Hobby Hotline on the 22nd of November, I'm going
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to go on and ask him some clarifying questions.
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And so the question is, is this drama or is this important?
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I definitely lean towards the important side and IA 100
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percent, 100% respect you and Greg saying I don't want to talk
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about this stuff because I also don't want to talk about it.
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I feel like I have I understand the situation, which is
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important because if anything, I don't understand.
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I don't want to put a put a video out about I don't even if
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I try like the legend Auburn 35 posts about a lot of things on
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Twitter that I say this seems really interesting, but I don't
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understand it. And if I don't understand it
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quickly, then I can't do a video on it.
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Because to do a video to talk about these things, you have to
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be able to explain it in a quick and concise manner for people to
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understand. This one though, shield bidding
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is easy to understand and I believe it impacts everybody.
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And I think I've been hearing from a lot of people saying, why
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would I care about this? Why should I care about this?
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This is just hobby drama. Now, if you want to sell your
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collection, here's my great Segway.
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Greg. If you want to sell your
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collection without any drama, you should use Chris Sewell,
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Collector investor Dealer, in that order.
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He does sponsor this series Surface Issues.
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You can go to his website collectorinvestordealer.com and
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sell him as your your collection.
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You can also just go to youcanemailsewellsportscards@gmail.com
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sell him your your collection drama free.
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He or part of your collection. He wants your collection so much
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and it's drama free. And Chris is a great guy.
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Too great SO. So he's a guy that you can
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definitely trust as well, which is is why we align ourselves
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with him. OK, I, I want to clarify a
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little bit because you know, when I put something out, I
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don't know how I come across. It's not that I don't want to
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talk. It's not that I'm not willing to
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talk about this stuff. I don't want to have to talk
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about this stuff because the whole point of the hobby for me
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and part of my hobby is my channel, but it's so that I can
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escape drama. And so the drama has crept.
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It didn't creep it, you know, launched into my escape and and
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so I will talk about this stuff when it comes up, when it's
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relevant. A conversation like you with you
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like this is much. I think it produces more then
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when I just do a monologue, you know, like I'm, you know,
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someone in some Shakespeare, you know, play.
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But so I'm happy to talk about it, but I'm really disappointed
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that it's something that has infiltrated my escape.
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So that really bums me out. I don't OK, so where do I fall?
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So you shared that you fall between drama and it's important
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and but on the side of important it you're you're on that side of
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the spectrum, but toward the middle ish.
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I would say, to be honest, you the way you just described it, I
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would say I'm at least where you are.
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I do think this is important. Well, let's explain why it's
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important though. Why everybody should care about
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shield bidding? Well, OK, first of all, we're
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talking about like our buddy Dan said on Carlos's show, these are
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federal crimes, like things that people are talking about.
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We're talking about conspiracy, we're talking about wire fraud.
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We're talking about illegal activities.
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So to say it's not important is is.
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I don't think that's appropriate it it is important.
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I don't know that anybody said it's not important.
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OK, well, the the the two spectrums were drama or
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important. So it it has to have it can't
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just be drama, it it has to have a level of importance.
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So I just don't want just yeah, I.
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Just don't want to misrepresent what Mike said or what you said
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because I had, I had tied this to Mike Moynihan and I don't
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want him saying, oh, hang on a second.
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I wasn't saying it wasn't important.
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I think Mike believes it's important.
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Yes, I agree. I agree that Mike thinks that.
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I, I think it, I think Mike thinks it.
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I think most people think it's important.
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And it's drama and it's drama that I don't like creeping.
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And you know, I'm the guy with Thanksgiving and I've got my
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mashed potatoes over here and I've got, I've got my stuffing
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over here and I got my Turkey over here.
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And they all, I'll take a little bite of this and a little bite
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of that, but I don't really like it where it just, you just pile
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it on top of itself. I like to have some separation.
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And what happened was somebody took a giant spoonful of mashed
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potatoes and went right on top of dinner and it it infiltrated,
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it crossed lines it's not supposed to cross.
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Greg, I have to tell you, 22 points to that right there.
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First of all, ever since I was a kid, well, when I was a kid, I
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would get teased mercilessly for never having my food touch each
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other. And I don't want my food to
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touch each other unless it's a casserole.
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I love casseroles, but I don't want my food to touch each
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other. But then the other thing is,
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when I first started watching you, I didn't appreciate yet
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your ability to turn everything into a it's not a metaphor, A
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simile maybe. Well, a simile is comparing 2
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unlike objects using like or as that's what a simile is, a
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metaphor. Comparing.
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Two unlike objects that not using that, yeah.
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And now I perk up as soon as I sense it coming, I perk up like,
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oh, here it is. And they're, they're so good.
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So I just want to share that I appreciate.
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I appreciate that and I love that we have that similarity.
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And I'm terrified by the way I I my brain does not work in that
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way. It's very rare that I can use a
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metaphor to describe things, and I wish I could.
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I think the best teachers are able to make things relatable to
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a previous experience. And so, yeah.
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And so as a teacher and as somebody who, this is what I do,
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I, I spend a lot of time trying to find those sorts of
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similarities to things we all can, you know, relate to.
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So it's partly what I do. It's partly why I think I'm
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relatively effective at what I do.
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But we're getting away from the topic.
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So the topic again is, is this drama or is it important?
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It's definitely important. And it's drama that is taking
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away, quite frankly, it's taking away some of the last couple of
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weeks have not been as joyful in the hobby for me because I can't
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go to the hobby to not think about serious stuff.
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There's serious stuff in this world.
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There's serious stuff in this country and I don't want to
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think about that sometimes. I mean, I just on the way home
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was listening to Stacking Slabs and it was great because I
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wasn't listening to political talk radio.
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And but now my hobby is talking about serious stuff and it
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because it is important. And you're right, it does it
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does affect everyone in the hobby.
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You know, what would, what do comps mean?
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Now do what comps do we believe? What auction houses can we trust
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or should we trust? Should we trust auction houses
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at all? Like what, what cards is our
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have a real foundation and what cards?
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It's all a facade because it's all been shilled by a collection
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of people. Like those are real questions
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about the hobby. And there are things that, and
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that's where I'm at. We're at the point now where it
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happened and we've grieved and we've processed and we've been
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mad and we've been angry and we've been in disbelief.
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But now we're at the point where we're like, OK, now what do we
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do? What do we do about it based on
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this? And I before I turn it to you, I
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do want to say shield bidding isn't new.
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I mean, this has been happening for a long time.
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I reposted a video today that I did in August of 2024 about a
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huge shield bidding thing that was happening on eBay.
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And I went through the actual sales history of the cards and
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how the cards kept getting relisted and how it was the same
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person bidding them up. This is not new.
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And I think that people are naive to think, oh, there's
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suddenly a shill thing. No, this is not a new thing.
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It's just there's, there's bad people in the world.
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And every once in a while, there's a massive, a reminder of
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how bad there are. And this is an example of one of
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those times where we got slapped across the face and said, yeah,
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there's stuff going on. Yeah, I'm trying to find my
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video. Mine was about the eBay seller
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Morrazond, a seller in China that seems to a lot of people
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believe shill items that they're selling.
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I'm trying to There it is right there.
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It's right around the same exact time.
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This was May of 2024. And my, my, my thumbnail says
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massive shill bidding operation question mark and it highlights
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a couple of sellers on eBay. But yeah, I mean, it's, it's
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maybe potentially centuries old that shill bidding has happened,
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but certainly decades in the hobby.
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And I also, I think it's important that we talk a little
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bit about the journalism in the hobby because collect an outfit
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that I, I'm friends with a couple of people that work at
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collector friendly with them and they are collect the outfit is
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has an investor and that has many investors.
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But one of those investors is Patrick Ryan.
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And they didn't talk about the shield bidding situation for
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quite a while after he first came out.
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And then a couple days ago they posted an article on what is
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shield bidding and what has driven this.
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And a lot of people have read that article and said, including
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me and said, do the does collect the organization?
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And I'm not saying the people I'm friendly with who write for
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collect or are working for collect.
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Do does collect believe that shill bedding is normal and OK?
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It's hard to tell. They do say that they they, they
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have a couple of qualifiers in there that that make it seem
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like they think it's OK. And at the top it does say
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Patrick Ryan is an investor in collect, which is good
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journalism when you have to call that out.
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But it just made me it, it didn't feel good reading that
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article when it felt like they were saying, actually, sometimes
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shield bidding is cool and fun. Obviously not literally.
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But yeah, I mean, I think I, I agree with your point about the
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the real world drama. I, I see this drama and I feel
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like this impacts me. A lot of the real world drama
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doesn't and it doesn't, I don't enjoy, I don't want to read
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about, I don't want to see it. It's just, but this, a lot of
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this stuff impacts me. Like when PSA messes up
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something, the, when SGC is going down the tubes, when
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there's shield bidding, those things impact me and they impact
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my viewers more importantly. And so I, when there's something
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like that, I feel like I, I, I want to talk about it and let
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people know. And that's why I do that.
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No, I, I don't blame you for it. And, and I, I think it's, I
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think it's important that some people cover it because like you
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just said, some people who should be covering it maybe
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aren't covering it because of, you know, ulterior motives.
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And I mean, I was, I was literally a freshman in college
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and I wrote a paper in my political science class about
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campaign finance reform. And I, I just went through a
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litany of examples on both sides of the aisle of people getting,
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you know, hookups because they're a big donors.
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And, and this is the same sort of thing.
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So none of that surprises me. That's the world in which we
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live, unfortunately. And so it is important that some
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people call this stuff out and, and I just personally, when it
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comes to this, it's not something that I want to have to
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talk about, but I will talk about it.
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And with you, we're having a discussion like it doesn't feel
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like I'm, you know, like getting up with my gavel and, you know,
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hammering it like I'm, you know, some authoritative person.
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We're talking about how we're affected and and we're all,
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we've all been affected, but we've all been affected by
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shilling for a long time. And with the prices that are
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happening now, with the amount of money that has come into the
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hobby, there's no doubt that the level has hit new extremes.
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And and we are now listen, you know, you can be, you can be the
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Tin Man and I can be the cowardly lion.
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But we finally just made it to Oz and we peeked behind the
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curtain and we said, whoa, it. We we didn't know that's all
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that was. Well, we didn't know that's what
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was happening back there. And that's where we are.
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Yeah, I like it. And I think that you and Mike
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and anybody else should feel perfectly comfortable not
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discussing things that you don't want to discuss.
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I will occasionally get comments, Hey, are you going to
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cover so and so a topic? And I'll just say, no, I'm, I'm
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not and I feel comfortable doing that.
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There are some topics that I or I sometimes I'll just throw it
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in a quick mention. A this happened this week.
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I'm not going to cover it really.
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But if you don't want to talk about it, no one's requiring.
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It's not like you're getting paid to talk about certain
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things. No one is going to say, Hey,
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I'm, I'm paying you to talk about this because we're not
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getting paid. So you know this.
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I just think that for me, the reason I want to talk about it
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is, first of all, I'm interested in it, quite frankly, to be
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perfectly honest with you. I, I see this type of thing and
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I think, oh, this is really interesting.
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And I start reading about it and I dig into it and then I want to
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share that information with my viewers.
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That's important to me. I, I get it, I, I get that.
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And again, I, I will talk about it.
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I don't like talking, I don't, I don't look forward to these
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events, but we, we absolutely, you know, and, and I think back
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to where we were starting to go a second ago is it's OK, here we
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are, you know, we're, and, and I use this example and it's not
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the best example, but I'm, I, I used it earlier today.
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It's like after 911 happened, things were different and things
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are different. My kids don't know what it like
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is like to go through security at an airport pre 911.
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Things are different because everything changed when it's not
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like there wasn't terrorism before, but that took it to
22:04
another level. And this is taking this
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situation. And again, I'm not comparing
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this to that. I'm using the example of
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sometimes there's a defining moment and the defining moment
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results in change. And I think there's going to be
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changed from this. I think some of the auction
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houses are going to start to feel some pressure about
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allowing the, the submitter, the consignor to bid.
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Like there are auction houses right now where you can bid on
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your own consigned item. That's insane that is absolutely
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insane They will bid it up to a certain amount for you.
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Just start the auction at that price.
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Just start the auction at that price instead of playing this
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phony, you know, Mirage game that you're doing.
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And so I've had a lot of feedback from the videos that
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I've posted and people are curious and, and one of the
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things I try really hard to do is stay in touch with the
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community and with my viewers. And, and when they're asking me
23:07
something, I want to be able to help deliver some response to
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them. And so I had a lot of people in
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feedback to my video yesterday saying, are comps basically
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worthless now? Do comps mean anything?
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And I still think they mean something.
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Personally, I think they mean something, but maybe they don't
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mean as much as some of us thought that they meant.
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And so I literally said, great question.
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I'm going to text Chris Hose right now.
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I texted Hose right there on the spot.
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I said I'd love for you to come on and I'd love for you to have
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a conversation about what are you guys doing to prevent shield
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bidding from just completely ruining comps?
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What suggestions being in the data as much as anyone?
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What is what are the tips you can give people?
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And so we're recording on Tuesday and and then, you know,
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Jeremy Lee has talked about how he's writing a book and part of
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the book, not the whole book, but part of the book is about
24:16
the auction houses and some of the, you know, intricacies
24:20
between the differences. And I reached out to him today
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and I said, will you come on and will you talk about what you've
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learned about some of the auction houses?
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John 3D 80s kid put together a spreadsheet that showed some of
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the things that each auction house does and doesn't do and
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different, different. Those are the sorts of things
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that I'm ready to move forward and I'm ready to equip myself
24:43
with more knowledge on how to best move forward.
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And that's what I think is the important thing at at this
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point. At this point, OK, some people
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said some things, some people have been doing some bad stuff.
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We get it. So what are we going to do about
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it? Yeah, pre 911, because that's
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what I was focused on. They're super important.
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I could drive across the border into Canada and have no
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problems. There was a border crossing pull
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right up. They would say, why are you
25:14
going into Canada? And I would say, I'm going to
25:16
get drunk because it's illegal here in the States for me, I'm
25:18
under, I'm 19 years old. And they would say, OK, be safe,
25:22
might have a designated driver with me or multiple people.
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And now you cannot cross the border without a, a passport.
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And it's a, it's a much bigger process to cross the border.
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Anyway, I digress. I didn't hear anything else you
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said, 'cause I was really focused on that.
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That's I'm kidding. I'm kidding.
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It's like my students and my wife and my kids.
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So what are the things? OK, so let's focus on that for a
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second. So you are a collector of sports
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cards and you basically had the curtain pulled back and shed
25:59
some light on some of the realities that are happening.
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What are your immediate concerns?
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What are your immediate thoughts, not about the people
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who were talking about it, but about the situation?
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And because you said, you know, I'm affected by this, So what
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are the immediate things that jump out to you as these are the
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things that I'm most concerned about and am affected by?
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I I'm probably not as affected as a lot of people because I buy
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common cards. I like iconic cards and those
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have a lot of comps. And when you have a lot of
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comps, it's easy to rule out the noise.
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You get better averages. You can even, yeah, in terms of
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those comps, if, if even 10% of that card is shill bidded.
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Shill, shill bidded. Yeah, that leaves 90% with good
27:00
comps. And that feels good to me that
27:03
that's fine. But if you're, let's say, Dan of
27:07
Dan's Vintage Baseball PC or you buying your pirate cards, those
27:12
cards are much more rare. They have fewer comps.
27:15
If one has sold in the last six months and that one was shill
27:21
bidded, that's that's tough. So if it if it sold for $400.00
27:27
in January and then in June it sold for 800 because somebody
27:31
shield it. Now the only comp is $800, when
27:38
really it probably should be 4 or $500.
27:42
Yeah, I mean a perfect example is the key card in my N 19 set
27:51
is the Blackbeard card. And that card a year ago was
27:56
selling for in A2 or A3400 to $600.00 and one sold closed on
28:07
Sunday night, no Monday night for in A2 for 3000.
28:14
I mean, we're talking about like 7X like now that card in the
28:22
last year has sold about five times and it has been gradually
28:29
climbing. It has.
28:31
It's not like one suddenly went nuts.
28:34
It has been gradually climbing. But Seven XI bought mine less
28:40
than a year ago from a guy on Facebook for $420.00.
28:45
And the reason he and it's APSA 2 and the reason he sold it to
28:49
me for that is because he already had one, but he bought
28:54
it at an auction for that amount.
28:56
He just sold it to me for what he paid.
28:58
He's like, I bought it because I was like, that's too good of a
29:01
deal. So I'm just going to buy it and
29:03
he bought it. And then he's like, I don't need
29:06
two of them. You want you need one.
29:07
Yeah, let's just sell it to you for what I bought it for off the
29:10
auction. I'm like, OK, well a year later
29:15
it's 78X. And knowing you $420.00, that's
29:21
that's a pretty good chunk for a card like me.
29:24
If I spent $420 on a card that's like top 10 or 15 in my
29:30
collection and now you're talking about a card.
29:35
If I were to buy that now, it would be the number one card in
29:37
my collection in terms of price. It's, it's probably my #2 card
29:44
now on card ladder. There have been some of those
29:48
sales have popped up, but it has, there aren't enough sales
29:52
to have pulled it up to that level.
29:54
Like, you know, 'cause some of the previous sales weigh it down
29:57
a little bit. But in there I, I think it says
30:01
it's like a $700.00 card. I mean, yeah, it's it's it might
30:08
be my second most valuable card and I bought it for 420 bucks.
30:13
Yeah, I would love to nerd out with Chris Hoge and just ask him
30:20
how his algorithm works. How, how does he measure the
30:23
value of cards? How does the how does the weight
30:25
each comp? Because I've worked, I've worked
30:30
in analytics for 15 years and I would love to understand how,
30:35
how they are doing it. I assume it's, it's proprietary,
30:38
but I don't know. I don't, I don't use pricing
30:40
apps really. I don't use collection apps, but
30:43
yeah. They have more than a handful of
30:47
different ways you can have your cards tracked.
30:50
You get to pick. They said you want to use this
30:53
one, this one, this one, this one.
30:54
So sometimes when people go my prices are crazy, I'm like,
30:57
well, maybe you chose a crazy one.
30:59
But one of the things they do is they do an index of certain
31:03
players. So for they don't do it of every
31:06
player. Like they don't have Whitey
31:08
Ford, but they have Hank Aaron. And what the index is made-up of
31:12
is every card at every grade, so that the full array at every
31:20
price point, every grade, every card and, and that creates an
31:26
index of its own. And then based on what that
31:30
index does, it is tied to that particular card.
31:36
So let's say I have a, you know, a 56 Willie Mays in a five and
31:44
three Willie Willie Mays cards just go bonkers.
31:48
Huge sales that pulls up the Willie Mays index a little,
31:52
which pulls up the other cards too.
31:54
That's one of the ways you can track it.
31:57
So there's a few there. There's just prices.
32:01
Then there's like what you paid for it is the starting point.
32:04
So like not all threes are created equal.
32:07
So maybe I got a really nice 3. So I paid $500.00 for a card
32:12
that's normally $400.00. So my starting point is a little
32:16
above the comp because I, I bought a nice one.
32:19
That's the assumption because my starting buying prices up here.
32:23
So then as things move up it, it's kind of tied to that.
32:27
That's one of the options. So when you enter your cards in
32:29
your collection, it'll say, how do you, how do you want it?
32:34
How do you want it valued? And, and, and those are just
32:37
some of them. But their guy Josh is like a
32:40
data. He's, he's a computer
32:42
programming genius and he's a data genius and he's the guy
32:47
that does it. Hoge doesn't do a lot of that.
32:52
Josh does a lot. Of that.
32:54
Yeah, Yeah. Hoge is more of like the CEO
32:58
business development and, and I'm speaking just kind of off
33:01
of, you know, I, I don't have a list of like their duties, just
33:05
through my conversations with them and other people and
33:08
listening to them that sort of his role.
33:12
They've got their data computer programmer guy and then they've
33:16
got their, you know, the other guy who does a lot of the
33:19
business stuff. And then Christina is the third
33:23
person who does a lot of the account stuff and a lot of the
33:29
problem issues stuff. And then they sit down and they
33:32
come it. I mean, it's just really three
33:34
full time people at card ladder, which is unbelievable, which
33:37
would scare me. I mean, I was in apartment chair
33:42
for 20 years and we have like one person who taught our top
33:46
programming class and I'm like, what happens if something
33:48
happens to this person? Like we don't have any.
33:51
And and I'm just talking about like one section of one class,
33:55
you know, so this is like a big business and when there's three
33:59
of them, that's a big piece of the company.
34:03
So I don't. I don't know how we devolved
34:06
into hardwater talk, but. But it is interesting and but
34:11
that's one of the things that's affected by this is our values.
34:19
I think you, you nailed it though.
34:21
You said, I think I'm correct me if I'm wrong.
34:24
You said I think that I'm affected less because the cards
34:28
I buy are heavily transacted, which creates much more
34:34
reliable, you know, standard deviation levels and means
34:39
because of the number of transactions that the sample
34:43
size is huge. And therefore it's a much more
34:46
reliable results versus an N 19 Blackbeard, which is going to
34:54
look more like a, you know, it's it's going to be all.
34:58
Over the place. Yeah, exactly.
35:00
And I mean, I'm glad for that for me.
35:03
But I have a lot of viewers who only collect rare cards.
35:09
I see it in my comments every day where people talk about I
35:12
only collect 1970s rare music cards.
35:16
Pop less than 10. I only collect pop less than 50
35:21
pre war baseball cards. And when you have those and some
35:27
of them are shielded, there are so few comps to rely upon.
35:33
And I think it the, I, well, first of all, I'm especially
35:37
interested in, in hearing from Hoge talk about it because he's
35:41
a one of one collector and Josh is basically a one of one
35:45
collector. So the comps there aren't really
35:48
comps for what they collect. So it'll be especially
35:52
interesting and they're probably especially affected.
35:55
But I think that I, I, I think that what you're saying makes a
36:00
lot of sense. And for most people, yes, it
36:05
affects us, but how much does it really affect most of us?
36:10
Some people are more effective than others.
36:13
Dan is definitely more affected than you, without any question.
36:17
Theo is less affected probably than John Mangini, you know, and
36:24
and that's definitely part of it.
36:27
What about the auction houses? Do you, after this whole thing
36:31
and kind of sitting and taking a deep breath and looking around,
36:34
do you go, yeah, there's certain auction houses that I don't
36:38
believe anything that comes out of there.
36:42
I don't. I know some people will and
36:44
that's OK, but it does create skepticism about a lot of
36:50
things. Like I, I see every week certain
36:53
big cards that sold for 50% more than they had two months ago
36:57
when they last sold, same exact copy.
37:00
And it makes me now I've heard the scepticism for years and
37:05
I've been like, but now I'm kind of like, OK, Yep, I'm with you.
37:10
When you hear a guy like Patrick Ryan, who is very wealthy, he's
37:16
very plugged into the hobby. He's very involved in the hobby
37:20
and he says it sounded to me like he said that a lot of
37:24
people are doing it. In fact, he he put posted a
37:27
story on LinkedIn, on Instagram where he said he needs to call
37:32
out everybody who's doing it. And it sounded like he knew a
37:34
lot of people who who are doing it.
37:37
I think there's probably more shield bidding going on at the
37:42
higher end stuff too, because I mean, to me and you, our hobby
37:48
budgets are more in the quote UN quote normal people level.
37:54
And so if a card gets too expensive and like, well, I'm
37:57
out, you know, it's like I'm out.
37:59
But some people can keep going. And when they keep going, it
38:09
might take it to, you know, that there if it's a rare card that
38:15
doesn't come up often and you've got lots of money and it
38:19
normally sells for $10,000, what's 15,000, you know, but for
38:25
me and you, a car that sells for 500, Wait, it's up to 750.
38:31
What are we talking about? I am out.
38:33
Absolutely. Yeah.
38:37
I, I, I, I'm not convinced that it's happening less on the lower
38:41
end. I've seen had several people
38:43
comment, several people tweet saying I shell bid my I bid on
38:48
my own items. They don't call it shell
38:50
bidding. They say I bid on my own items
38:52
on eBay and they're talking about $2050 cards to protect the
38:57
floor price of it. And they say it's not a big deal
39:00
because somebody else has bid after them and one they didn't
39:03
win it. Well it is a big deal because
39:05
that person had to pay higher and sure they were willing to
39:10
but it it increases that comp. The the issue that the, there's
39:17
a lot of issues obviously, but when, when the the whole point
39:22
of an auction is that it's risky and if you get to eliminate the
39:28
risk of it, then then that's. You've cheated.
39:35
You've cheated, You've cheated, You've cheated when you can't
39:40
lose. I mean, if if I get to hit a
39:43
button on the slot machine and I'm down 500 and I get to start
39:46
back where I started, that's not, you're not gambling, that's
39:50
not a gamble, it's not a risk. And the whole point of an
39:54
auction is there might be a bidding more or it might go for
39:58
half of what it's supposed to. That's why I don't do it 'cause
40:01
I'm a wimp. I am a giant wimp when it comes
40:05
to my stuff. I just damn.
40:09
Yeah, yeah. I, I, I don't know, it's such a
40:14
tough, touchy situation. I'm, I'll say it again, I'm
40:19
really interested in the topic. I'm really interested in.
40:24
Well, I have shifted. I don't, I used to do videos on
40:27
big PSA mistakes and I've shifted those into my Sunday
40:32
morning clearing the bases episodes where I don't cover
40:35
them fully. Not because it's drama, although
40:38
it is. I'm just sick of doing those
40:40
videos. Yeah.
40:42
So I guess I kind of understand. I mean, I understand you and
40:45
Mike anyway, but I kind of relate to it more than I thought
40:49
initially when when I first started doing this video because
40:52
I've I'm sick of talking about PS as mistakes, which is kind of
40:57
like what you guys are talking about too.
41:00
All right. Couple, couple last questions.
41:03
First because we're at 41 minutes and 40 to 45 would be
41:08
good, but I have a couple of things I got to ask you.
41:11
We're we're going to talk again here in a week.
41:14
What do you think is going to happen over the next week with
41:16
this whole thing? Is there going to be any more
41:20
fallout or is it going to start quieting down?
41:24
I think it'll start quieting down and I, I don't think we'll
41:27
hear anything for a little while because I know I believe Patrick
41:31
Ryan has gone dark. I.
41:34
We can text him and ask. Yeah, we could.
41:38
He he said the fanatics had suspended his account
41:41
temporarily while they research. I don't think we're going to
41:45
hear anything about that maybe ever.
41:47
But it will be interesting if a big auction house came out and
41:51
said something. I just don't think it'll happen
41:53
for PR purposes. On the 22nd of November, I'll be
41:59
on Hobby Hotline, which is on 4 Collectors A4 Collectors YouTube
42:03
channel where I'll be talking to Doctor Beckett about what he
42:08
said. And that could create something.
42:12
If he, if he stands by what he has said or if he clarifies them
42:16
and it continues to sound bad, that could create more drama in
42:20
the hobby. And you know, by then I'll be
42:23
kind of sick of it. Yeah.
42:26
By then, yeah, we got to, I mean, we got to be getting close
42:29
to tired of it at this point. Yeah, I got an, I got a message
42:33
from somebody, not a message, but a comment saying, hey, did
42:36
you listen to Doctor Beckett's third podcast about it?
42:39
Are you going to cover it? And I said, yeah, I'm going to
42:42
mention it briefly on my Sunday video.
42:45
But I first of all, I don't have time like you and Mike.
42:48
I'm super busy. I don't have time to put out a
42:51
video every day. I'm lucky to get 3 out a week
42:53
right now. So yeah.
42:57
One last question for you. And and hit hit the eject button
43:02
if you don't want to. But there started being some
43:07
calls apparently from attorneys and and some people started to
43:12
question whether it was worth having these videos posted.
43:19
How bad does that compound the situation where you think, oh,
43:28
well, I'm, I'm now saying this and I'm, I'm all, you know,
43:33
slaps on the back to my buddies as we're all talking about
43:37
laughing about what we're doing. And then somebody starts to
43:42
report on it. Heaven forbid the thing that
43:45
you're bragging about. And then they, they get phone
43:50
calls from attorneys that they can't have their stuff up.
43:55
Where do you, what is your, what is your take on how that played
44:00
out because the bully stole the lunch money and then the bully
44:04
told on you like, what's up? Like where?
44:07
What do you think about that? Yeah.
44:10
Are you familiar? I want to say it's the Bette
44:13
Midler effect. Is that, is it Bette Midler who
44:15
had the house on the ocean in California or Hawaii or
44:18
somewhere and somebody posted a photo of it online and then she
44:23
sued them because it was her private home and she didn't want
44:26
them to post a photo of it online.
44:28
And it created this effect where 10s of millions of people ended
44:33
up seeing the photo because she sued somebody over it.
44:37
And so I think Patrick Ryan, I assume it's Patrick Ryan.
44:43
I don't know. Whoever called Neo has created
44:49
more of a firestorm because Neo pulled his video down which
44:52
created a firestorm. Neo contacted Dustin, I think is
44:55
what happened to warn him, and then Dustin pulled down his
44:59
video without an attorney calling him and then that
45:04
created a firestorm. So I think it's called the Bette
45:07
Midler effect, but I don't remember if it's Bette Midler or
45:09
some other celebrity from the 20th century.
45:15
It created a bit of a Bette Midler effect where people
45:17
started hearing more and more about it because people were
45:19
saying, well, these videos were taken down, this must be really
45:21
serious. And then they start looking more
45:24
into it. Yeah.
45:27
It yeah, it that that whole thing is kind of lame.
45:35
I'll just leave it at that. Pretty lame.
45:37
Pretty lame that he was able to do that, but I don't know what's
45:44
legal and not legal. I'm just a silly teacher, so.
45:48
Yeah. All right, buddy.
45:51
Well, we are a week from the next one of these.
45:55
Who knows what we'll be talking about by then.
45:58
There could be a whole new firestorm of some other topic.
46:03
But it was it was fun to chat and catch up.
46:07
And I apologize that I let you down last week, but you did a
46:13
great job. You you, you know, you went to
46:15
the Super sub, pulled him in and he pitched a gem.
46:20
Yeah, thank you. Keaton was Keating was great.
46:23
Yeah, agreed. All right.
46:27
Well, is that it? That's it.
46:30
Thanks, Greg. Thanks everybody for listening.
46:32
Yep.