Transcript

Credlin | 20 October · Credlin

0:02
Speaker 1: Peter Cridland, live from News 24.
0:07
Speaker 2: Good evening. Welcome to the program. Here's what's coming up
0:10
Speaker 2: tonight on Credlin. We'll get you the latest update on
0:13
Speaker 2: the health of critically injured Federal MP Helen Haynes, and
0:17
Speaker 2: we'll discuss the rise of politically motivated violence more broadly,
0:21
Speaker 2: from the chaos we've seen in Europe to the attack
0:23
Speaker 2: yesterday on the streets of Wangaratta. Where to next for
0:28
Speaker 2: a country like Australia? The always insightful John Anderson, former
0:32
Speaker 2: Deputy Prime Minister, will join me for his analysis... on
0:35
Speaker 2: a very difficult couple of days, plus questions over the
0:39
Speaker 2: government's censorship push and how it might use this senseless
0:43
Speaker 2: attack yesterday as a lever to push through its digital reforms.
0:48
Speaker 2: We'll also speak with former AFP officer David Craig on
0:51
Speaker 2: disturbing news in relation to the impending release of a
0:54
Speaker 2: convicted Islamic State terrorist in Australia. Plus, my Tuesday night panel,
0:59
Speaker 2: Dan Wild and Lucy Zellick, will get you across all
1:02
Speaker 2: the other issues making news around Australia. And the Prime
1:06
Speaker 2: Minister calling for a cooling of the political rhetoric... But
1:10
Speaker 2: Pauline Hanson today turned the tables, accusing Anthony Albanese of
1:14
Speaker 2: helping to create the very division he now seeks to condemn.
1:20
Speaker 3: You tone it down. Get rid of your dirt file
1:23
Speaker 3: that goes on against parliamentarians, including my party, which I'm
1:27
Speaker 3: constantly dealing with all the time.
1:30
Speaker 4: It comes from the top.
1:31
Speaker 3: Tone it down yourself.
1:35
Speaker 2: We'll pick up that issue from Pauline Hanson in a
1:37
Speaker 2: moment and we'll stay with that incident yesterday involving Federal
1:41
Speaker 2: MP Helen Haynes that we broke here on air last night.
1:46
Speaker 2: Struck by a car in an alleged targeted attack, the
1:50
Speaker 2: independent MP was airlifted from Wangaratta in Victoria's northeast. to
1:54
Speaker 2: Melbourne where she's undergone emergency surgery at the Alfred Hospital,
1:59
Speaker 2: which is a specialist medical centre for the state's road
2:02
Speaker 2: trauma patients. Tonight, Haynes remains in a critical condition. It
2:07
Speaker 2: has been reported that she has horrifically lost a leg
2:11
Speaker 2: and that doctors are now fighting to save her other limb.
2:15
Speaker 2: Well-liked to cross the political divide, politicians reacted with concern
2:20
Speaker 2: not just for Helen's recovery but also at the nature
2:24
Speaker 2: of what's alleged to have occurred yesterday afternoon in regional
2:29
Speaker 2: Victoria outside her electorate office.
2:33
Speaker 5: She is a well-loved member of her community and this
2:37
Speaker 5: will come as an incredible shock to that community.
2:41
Speaker 6: I have always found her beautiful. to be a polite,
2:46
Speaker 6: a dedicated, determined local member.
2:49
Speaker 3: We may have differences with politics and that type of thing,
2:52
Speaker 3: but for this to happen to her and in a
2:54
Speaker 3: critical condition, I'm really quite upset by this.
2:58
Speaker 7: Today is a really bad moment because I think it
3:00
Speaker 7: will diminish the trust that people have, particularly between MPs
3:05
Speaker 7: and the people they serve.
3:08
Speaker 2: Now, I've got family who live up in the Wangaratta
3:11
Speaker 2: area and a lot of locals are shell-shocked. They've spoken
3:15
Speaker 2: out in support of their two-term member for Indi.
3:20
Speaker 8: Obviously, our office is next door, so, you know, and
3:23
Speaker 8: she's a genuine member of the community. Like, she does
3:26
Speaker 8: hold a role of significance, but she still is a
3:31
Speaker 8: local person.
3:32
Speaker 2: Helen will always get terrific support.
3:34
Speaker 4: She's such a great lady. She does things for everybody.
3:37
Speaker 2: I wish her all the best and, yeah, hope she's
3:40
Speaker 2: all good. Earlier this morning, the Herald Sun reported the
3:44
Speaker 2: name of the man arrested and detained in connection to
3:48
Speaker 2: this alleged attack. They named him as Brendan Nugent, a
3:52
Speaker 2: 43-year-old local from the neighbouring town of Tarrawindji. Now, Nugent is,
3:58
Speaker 2: say those who know him... a long-time forestry campaigner, a
4:03
Speaker 2: left-wing environmentalist, or so he was, because his social media
4:08
Speaker 2: posts indicate a decided shift to the far left around
4:13
Speaker 2: the time of the Hamas terror attacks on October 7.
4:17
Speaker 2: From that time on, Nugent's views on the Middle East
4:21
Speaker 2: appear to have become more and more radical, posts exhibiting
4:25
Speaker 2: a strongly pro-Palestinian line no surprises here, an anti-Israel position.
4:32
Speaker 2: But it wasn't just Gaza that he was supporting. On
4:35
Speaker 2: January 12, 2024, as just one example, he made this
4:40
Speaker 2: post in support of the Houthi military in Yemen, who'd
4:43
Speaker 2: been hit by the UK and the US in a
4:46
Speaker 2: series of targeted strikes against the terrorist group. But before
4:51
Speaker 2: much of Nugent's background came to light, we had a
4:55
Speaker 2: raft of commentators flood the airwaves calling out male violence
5:00
Speaker 2: and predictably harmful online rhetoric, including left-wing activist Hannah Ferguson,
5:07
Speaker 2: who's already put up her hand to running the Prime
5:09
Speaker 2: Minister's Sydney seat of Graindler at the next federal election.
5:13
Speaker 9: I think when we're talking about turning the temperature down,
5:16
Speaker 9: I think healthy debate and respectful discourse is a big
5:18
Speaker 9: part of that.
5:20
Speaker 2: Well, how stupid must the Channel 7 producers be not
5:23
Speaker 2: to have looked carefully enough into Ferguson's own history when
5:27
Speaker 2: it comes to politically motivated attacks? Because she has form.
5:34
Speaker 2: Last year, Ferguson celebrated the assassination of Charlie Kirk in
5:38
Speaker 2: this post where she said, Am I glad Charlie Kirk
5:42
Speaker 2: will no longer be spreading his extremist messaging? Well, yes.
5:47
Speaker 2: Do I believe he empowered the violence that ended his life?
5:51
Speaker 2: She said yes. Do I believe he caused more harm
5:54
Speaker 2: than good? Yes. And the most shocking of all was
5:59
Speaker 2: this comment where she said, is violence sometimes necessary? Hannah
6:04
Speaker 2: Ferguson said yes. Now, unfortunately for Ferguson's narrative and those
6:10
Speaker 2: like her, the alleged attacker here looks likely to have
6:14
Speaker 2: been from her side of the political fence. So now
6:18
Speaker 2: just watch the left scramble. Already the debate is moving
6:23
Speaker 2: off the man and the alleged motivations in relation to
6:28
Speaker 2: yesterday's attack and onto the issue of online hate as
6:33
Speaker 2: the Albanese government's already trying to turn this shocking incident
6:37
Speaker 2: into justification for its controversial digital duty of care legislation.
6:44
Speaker 2: Right on cue, here is Home Affairs Minister Tony Burke
6:48
Speaker 2: this morning.
6:50
Speaker 10: There is a very strange capacity that has started to
6:56
Speaker 10: develop of people being willing to make some of the
7:02
Speaker 10: most ugly and brutal comments and threats online and no
7:07
Speaker 10: one should pretend that that doesn't add to the temperature.
7:09
Speaker 10: That's not to go to this specific case and I
7:12
Speaker 10: leave it to the police to as they work through
7:15
Speaker 10: issues of motivation on this. But regardless of everything we're
7:22
Speaker 10: dealing with right now, it is also the case that
7:26
Speaker 10: the general environment continues to become higher and higher risk.
7:33
Speaker 2: What happened to Helen Haynes, if it was a targeted,
7:36
Speaker 2: politically motivated attack, does not need new legislation to send
7:40
Speaker 2: the perpetrator to prison. Running over someone in a car
7:44
Speaker 2: is already against the law. So too if he had
7:48
Speaker 2: threatened her online, already against the law. Or walked into
7:52
Speaker 2: her office perhaps and verbally or physically assaulted her, already
7:57
Speaker 2: now all of that against the law. This is just
8:00
Speaker 2: a desperate Labor Party willing to use any event, any
8:04
Speaker 2: time to their political advantage. And this too, I'm going
8:09
Speaker 2: to call this out. This staged photo op today in
8:12
Speaker 2: the federal parliamentary offices in Melbourne. This is the PM's
8:17
Speaker 2: office in the CPO, it's called, involving there the Prime Minister,
8:21
Speaker 2: the Sydney-based Minister, Tony Burke, who clearly flew down to
8:25
Speaker 2: Melbourne for the pictures today. The federal police commissioner, Chrissy Barrett,
8:29
Speaker 2: she'd been on the plane as well. And the state
8:31
Speaker 2: Labor Premier there, Ben Carroll, beside him today, the boss
8:35
Speaker 2: of Victoria Police, Mike Bush. Now, right now, Victoria's in
8:39
Speaker 2: the midst of a state election campaign. So Carroll is
8:43
Speaker 2: in that room for a stage shot to help his
8:47
Speaker 2: dwindling political prospects. Now, if Carroll warranted a briefing, fair enough,
8:53
Speaker 2: but there was no need for the cameras. Same too
8:56
Speaker 2: for Barrett. I would have thought she'd be far better
8:59
Speaker 2: off holding her senior colleague meetings in Canberra away from
9:03
Speaker 2: the cameras and ensuring tight coordination between the AFP and ASIO. Funny,
9:10
Speaker 2: isn't it? She can front for a photo op like that,
9:12
Speaker 2: but she can't front the Bondi Royal Commission. Call me
9:16
Speaker 2: a cynic, but I know the Labor playbook here. Never
9:19
Speaker 2: waste a crisis, especially during an election campaign. Now, some
9:25
Speaker 2: things should be above politics, but with Labor, they never are.
9:32
Speaker 2: Like this report today in the Daily Mail from longtime
9:34
Speaker 2: political journalist Peter Van Onselen with this headline that reads,
9:39
Speaker 2: how Anthony Albanese's office circulated a dirt sheet to journalists
9:43
Speaker 2: baselessly raising questions about Helen Haynes just weeks before the
9:47
Speaker 2: PM praised her integrity and called on everyone to lower
9:51
Speaker 2: the temperature in politics. This so-called Labor dirt unit, this
9:55
Speaker 2: dirt sheet, centred on legitimate questions that were raised by
9:59
Speaker 2: Haynes regarding the integrity of the process, whereby the Prime
10:03
Speaker 2: Minister's local Marrickville golf course got handed that $ 6 million
10:08
Speaker 2: government grant months and months and months before there was
10:13
Speaker 2: even a formal process to give them the money.
10:18
Speaker 3: It was just a few weeks ago. You know, he's
10:20
Speaker 3: putting out a dirt file on Helen Haynes. And what
10:24
Speaker 3: he said about her, because she questioned about the money
10:26
Speaker 3: going to the Merrifield golf course. And for him to
10:29
Speaker 3: stand up today and say how wonderful person she is. Well, PM,
10:35
Speaker 3: you have a look at it. You say to tone
10:37
Speaker 3: it down. Well, then I'll tell the PM, you tone
10:40
Speaker 3: it down. Get rid of your dirt file that goes
10:43
Speaker 3: on against parliamentarians, including my party, which I'm constantly dealing
10:48
Speaker 3: with all the time. It comes from the top. Tone
10:51
Speaker 3: it down yourself.
10:54
Speaker 2: Helen Haynes was right to raise the integrity around the
10:58
Speaker 2: decision in relation to the Marrickville Golf Club. No less
11:02
Speaker 2: than constitutional legal expert Anne Toomey has raised this in
11:07
Speaker 2: a committee process, in her legal submission to a Senate inquiry.
11:11
Speaker 2: If the Prime Minister wants the temperature turned down or
11:14
Speaker 2: taken down, how about he starts in his own backyard?
11:18
Speaker 2: And while he's at it, he must urgently review now
11:21
Speaker 2: the security for every MP, every single MP, not just
11:25
Speaker 2: himself and his ministers with the luxury of 24-7 police protection,
11:31
Speaker 2: every MP. And end the games too, once and for all,
11:35
Speaker 2: where he cuts the staff entitlement of his opponents, but
11:39
Speaker 2: for himself, he's got the highest number of staff of
11:43
Speaker 2: any Prime Minister in Australian history. All right, let's get
11:51
Speaker 2: our headlines now from Canberra with our political reporter, Cam Redden.
11:56
Speaker 7: Good evening.
11:56
Speaker 6: Australian politics is in a state of shock following the
12:00
Speaker 6: attack on independent MP Helen Haynes.
12:03
Speaker 5: This has shaken the community. Helen Haynes is someone who
12:09
Speaker 5: is widely respected. Because she is so respectful.
12:13
Speaker 1: She is exactly what we need in elected representatives.
12:17
Speaker 6: The incident already has some politicians reviewing their own security
12:21
Speaker 6: measures and speaking openly about threats they receive.
12:24
Speaker 2: This, unfortunately, I think is the new reality here. I
12:27
Speaker 2: have certainly seen threats of violence escalate.
12:30
Speaker 7: This is a job now that entails death threats as part.
12:34
Speaker 4: Of the job.
12:34
Speaker 11: We need to draw a line in the sand here
12:36
Speaker 11: and find ways to show more respect in the chamber
12:39
Speaker 11: and outside the chamber as well.
12:41
Speaker 6: And following the latest cartoon controversy, One Nation leader Pauline
12:45
Speaker 6: Hanson has issued an apology and a retraction.
12:48
Speaker 3: The video went up without my actually seeing it. I've
12:52
Speaker 3: asked him to actually change it and I do apologise
12:55
Speaker 3: for that. It does bear my name and I've got
12:57
Speaker 3: to take responsibility for that.
12:59
Speaker 6: Cameron Redden, News 24, Canberra.
13:04
Speaker 2: All right, let's bring in our News 24 political editor now,
13:07
Speaker 2: Andrew Clennell. Andrew, again, thank you for your time last
13:09
Speaker 2: night when that story broke. You were right on the
13:12
Speaker 2: money with the horrific events that had played out earlier
13:15
Speaker 2: in the day in Wangaratta. Do we have an update
13:18
Speaker 2: on Helen Haynes and her condition? There are those reports that,
13:21
Speaker 2: as I said, horrifically she has lost her leg, one leg,
13:25
Speaker 2: and surgeons are trying to obviously save the other limb.
13:30
Speaker 2: Do we have any update?
13:31
Speaker 4: I don't.
13:32
Speaker 1: You know, it's information the hospital has, you know, and
13:38
Speaker 1: her family. But we know from the reports at the
13:43
Speaker 1: scene in the triple O call, she had a severed
13:45
Speaker 1: leg virtually there, I'm pretty sure. So would have lost
13:49
Speaker 1: a fair bit of blood. And, you know, there's sort
13:53
Speaker 1: of reports indicating the other leg in a lot of danger.
13:57
Speaker 1: So there's no coming back from this in terms of,
14:01
Speaker 1: being back to her old life. I mean, that's why
14:03
Speaker 1: I feel very sad tonight. It's been a long, sad
14:05
Speaker 1: day at work, frankly, because the woman's going to suffer
14:10
Speaker 1: intolerably just for doing her job. It's a terrible story.
14:15
Speaker 2: And as we know, being a nice politician, you know,
14:20
Speaker 2: that's not an oxymoron. There's not many of them. But,
14:23
Speaker 2: you know, she is renowned.
14:24
Speaker 1: At least you made me laugh.
14:28
Speaker 2: Not just for being across their brief and serving that
14:31
Speaker 2: local community. As I say, I've got family up that
14:33
Speaker 2: way very, very well. She's well regarded there, of course.
14:36
Speaker 2: But in Canberra, she's able to work with all sides
14:38
Speaker 2: of politics and she just comes across as a really
14:41
Speaker 2: lovely lady. And no one deserves this. No politician, no
14:45
Speaker 2: human being deserves this. But, you know, you come off
14:50
Speaker 2: against a Land Cruiser and it's going to be pretty tough, Andrew.
14:53
Speaker 1: Yeah, and there's a description for what I think this is,
14:56
Speaker 1: but I can't say it on TV. But, I mean,
15:00
Speaker 1: it just seems like this guy was a nut. And, yes,
15:03
Speaker 1: he was to the left of centre in politics. There's
15:06
Speaker 1: no doubt about that. It's not, you know, like Joe
15:08
Speaker 1: Cox in Britain was a so-called right-wing extremist. This is
15:11
Speaker 1: Britain or whatever he was saying while he was shooting
15:14
Speaker 1: and stabbing. But this guy looks like he's suffered some
15:18
Speaker 1: form of psychosis, been on drugs. We know that he has,
15:22
Speaker 1: and Sam Birrell confirmed this on my program this afternoon, Peter,
15:25
Speaker 1: he'd been into the state MP's office where he'd been
15:28
Speaker 1: agitated and he'd been talking about some sort of sex
15:31
Speaker 1: abuse case. So he had grievances on the political side
15:36
Speaker 1: he was putting online and he had grievances on the
15:38
Speaker 1: personal side. Even more tragically, his... His father and stepmother
15:43
Speaker 1: appear to have known Helen Haynes. Helen Haynes was photographed
15:48
Speaker 1: with a stepmother, a health executive, a year ago.
15:51
Speaker 5: Mm-hmm.
15:53
Speaker 1: And I do.
15:54
Speaker 2: Let's just go to that, Andrew.
15:55
Speaker 12: OK, sure.
15:55
Speaker 2: Let's just go to that. We've got that statement from
15:57
Speaker 2: his father, his father, Rod Nugent, and the father's partner,
16:02
Speaker 2: Christine Cunningham, have released a statement. It said, I mean, again,
16:05
Speaker 2: Wang's not a small place, but it is a country
16:07
Speaker 2: town in many respects, Andrew. This will be ripping the
16:23
Speaker 2: town apart.
16:24
Speaker 1: Yeah, and so I do sort of feel like Haynes
16:30
Speaker 1: was just outside at the wrong time because I feel
16:33
Speaker 1: like he's driven past. I could be wrong. He might
16:36
Speaker 1: have been hanging around there waiting, but it's just the
16:38
Speaker 1: U-turn makes you think he'd driven past and in this
16:41
Speaker 1: madness this bloke's had, he's gone, oh, I think I'll
16:44
Speaker 1: go run her over because the eyewitness accounts, which I'm
16:48
Speaker 1: very grateful to our reporter, Jack Nyhoff, for getting them
16:50
Speaker 1: on camera out there, indicate the guy was babbling. He
16:53
Speaker 1: just didn't know what, you know, day of the week
16:56
Speaker 1: it was, and they were able to hold him down
16:57
Speaker 1: pretty easily. So, but the viciousness of it, I mean,
17:01
Speaker 1: you can be mad or you can be mad and bad.
17:03
Speaker 1: Not all mentally ill people, in fact, very few of them,
17:06
Speaker 1: do things like this. So it's important to keep that
17:10
Speaker 1: in mind as well, and he should be charged, you know,
17:13
Speaker 1: and we look forward to that. But it just seems
17:16
Speaker 1: one of those things which.
17:20
Speaker 1: You can't necessarily blame on more modern times and social media.
17:25
Speaker 1: I'm sure it can exacerbate mental illness, and we see that.
17:30
Speaker 1: I'm sure it can exacerbate political extremism, but it just
17:34
Speaker 1: does look like a mentally ill, potentially drug adult or
17:39
Speaker 1: alcohol adult act. And, look, I'm keen to hear further
17:44
Speaker 1: details about it, but the security question is a really
17:47
Speaker 1: interesting one. Have we been too lax in this country?
17:51
Speaker 1: I mean, I had Tony Burke on a year ago.
17:53
Speaker 1: He said, yes, we all fear this is going to
17:56
Speaker 1: happen here. You know, do we have enough security around
18:00
Speaker 1: our electorate offices, security detail? People were saying to me today, well,
18:04
Speaker 1: you couldn't have protected her in this instance. And that
18:06
Speaker 1: might be right. But I'll tell you what, you might
18:09
Speaker 1: be able to protect the next MP, Peter, if you
18:11
Speaker 1: start looking more at, you know, you work at a
18:14
Speaker 1: place like News Corp, we've got a security guard on
18:17
Speaker 1: the buildings. Why shouldn't you have one at an electorate office,
18:20
Speaker 1: for example?
18:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, but hang on, hang on, hang on. Let me
18:23
Speaker 2: jump in there. I've worked for seven MPs and all
18:25
Speaker 2: of them had quite secure offices and I'm talking about
18:28
Speaker 2: low-ranking ministers, I'm talking about simple electorate offices and I'm
18:32
Speaker 2: talking about... the high-end CPOs in our capital city. So
18:35
Speaker 2: all of them are relatively fortified, Andrew. I think the
18:39
Speaker 2: vulnerability is when the politician's in a vehicle and often
18:42
Speaker 2: it's their own car, when they're out of their family
18:45
Speaker 2: home and when they're in and around normal settings in
18:49
Speaker 2: their electorates trying to do the job that we want
18:51
Speaker 2: them to do, to get out and about and talk
18:53
Speaker 2: to real people and not live in a bubble. I
18:55
Speaker 2: think that's the difficulty.
18:56
Speaker 12: Well, do we need.
18:57
Speaker 2: And that's where the only thing... Well, that's where the
18:59
Speaker 2: only thing that would guard against that circumstance... is close
19:04
Speaker 2: personal protection of the type that the Prime Minister has.
19:07
Speaker 2: And I think that has to be on the table.
19:09
Speaker 2: It has to be on the table.
19:10
Speaker 1: So do I. And I also wonder, and I know
19:12
Speaker 1: they do this for advertising or whatever, but Helen Haynes
19:16
Speaker 1: was next to a car with her name emblazoned on it.
19:20
Speaker 1: Do we need to put an end to that practice
19:22
Speaker 1: and say, look, let's not make ourselves a target here
19:27
Speaker 1: with our names on our cars, et cetera? I know
19:29
Speaker 1: that might disappoint a lot of politicians, especially regional areas
19:33
Speaker 1: because they want to advertise their brand etc but that
19:37
Speaker 1: sort of thing I just think out of this the
19:42
Speaker 1: government needs to get real with the AFP and serious
19:46
Speaker 1: I mean Helen Haynes could still die if not she's
19:49
Speaker 1: affected for the rest of her life by this. And
19:53
Speaker 1: if something can come out of it, can we make
19:55
Speaker 1: it that it doesn't happen again or we do everything
19:58
Speaker 1: we can to make sure it doesn't happen again? We
20:00
Speaker 1: already have enough trouble getting people into politics as it is.
20:05
Speaker 2: I will just have a plea, having lived inside that
20:08
Speaker 2: machine for 16 years, that if we do do a
20:11
Speaker 2: review of it, like we're having this inquiry into Bondi,
20:15
Speaker 2: I want to see it go all the way to
20:16
Speaker 2: the top. I want to see the AFP involved. I
20:19
Speaker 2: want to see the parliamentary services involved. I want to
20:21
Speaker 2: see ASIO involved and state police as well as the
20:25
Speaker 2: federal machine because so many of the interactions that the
20:29
Speaker 2: politicians have when there is concern about the security is
20:32
Speaker 2: is the involvement of state police. And I'm just so
20:35
Speaker 2: disappointed with the lack of rigour around the Bondi Royal Commission, Andrew,
20:40
Speaker 2: that if we are going to look at this, we
20:41
Speaker 2: do a Fed income review. Yeah. And if they can
20:44
Speaker 2: get to someone like Helen Haynes in a country town
20:47
Speaker 2: who's well-liked, who's not inflammatory, then I think every other
20:51
Speaker 2: politician needs to be looked at carefully and protected.
20:55
Speaker 1: And don't discount a copycat, you know. And, you know,
20:59
Speaker 1: the terrible thing to say, you don't want to say that,
21:01
Speaker 1: but you've got to be hypervigilant now, you know, the
21:03
Speaker 1: government about this. And in terms of Bondi Royal Commission,
21:07
Speaker 1: excuse my language, I'm pissed off about this as well,
21:10
Speaker 1: because it's not like, you know, it's 15 dead people
21:15
Speaker 1: and kids cowering under a bridge hearing people get slowly shot.
21:19
Speaker 1: You know, so why wouldn't the Prime Minister and Home
21:23
Speaker 1: Affairs Minister and the Australian Federal Police Commissioner and the
21:26
Speaker 1: New South Wales Premier be called?
21:28
Speaker 4: Even if it was.
21:29
Speaker 1: Just for an hour with some pretty rudimentary type stuff.
21:34
Speaker 1: The point is the Commission has to be seen to be,
21:37
Speaker 1: you know, leaving no stone unturned over Australia's worst terror attack.
21:42
Speaker 1: So I'm in furious agreement with you on that, Peter.
21:46
Speaker 2: I want to get a comment from you on... this
21:49
Speaker 2: comment from the Prime Minister and this dirt unit sheet
21:54
Speaker 2: that his own office put out a couple of weeks ago.
21:57
Speaker 2: Have a listen. They haven't got the grab for me. Sorry, Andrew.
22:04
Speaker 2: But he basically said the reason she was respected is
22:06
Speaker 2: she was so respectful. I mean, rightly, I think the
22:11
Speaker 2: PM's quite genuine in his reflections in relation to Helen Haynes,
22:16
Speaker 2: but a lot of hand-wringing when only a few weeks
22:18
Speaker 2: ago he was dishing the dirt on her about the
22:21
Speaker 2: Marrickville Golf Club grant.
22:22
Speaker 1: Well, I didn't get the dirt sheet. If that's true,
22:26
Speaker 1: that's highly disappointing. That's all I can say.
22:29
Speaker 2: Well, that's certainly the reports. That's the reports from Peter
22:31
Speaker 2: Van Onselen today.
22:32
Speaker 1: I'm not saying it's not true at all, but I'm
22:34
Speaker 1: just saying I didn't receive it, which kind of exonerates
22:38
Speaker 1: me from revealing my source, if you like. But, yeah,
22:42
Speaker 1: that would be pretty disappointing.
22:46
Speaker 2: Maybe you didn't get it because I wouldn't have thought
22:47
Speaker 2: you'd use it, your man of integrity, Andrew Clennell. Maybe
22:50
Speaker 2: that's what it is. All right, I've got to leave
22:52
Speaker 2: it there. I want to get on to David Craig
22:54
Speaker 2: if I can. Thank you, Andrew. And he joins me now.
22:57
Speaker 2: Of course, David Craig is a former AFP detective superintendent.
23:01
Speaker 2: I want to speak to you tonight, David, about this
23:04
Speaker 2: situation terrible news, concerning news in relation to a convicted
23:08
Speaker 2: Islamic State terrorist that looks to be about to be
23:13
Speaker 2: released from prison in Australia. But given your experience, give
23:17
Speaker 2: me your assessment. You heard the discussion there with Andrew
23:19
Speaker 2: Clennell about better support and better security for police. I
23:23
Speaker 2: made the point that a lot of the facilities they
23:25
Speaker 2: are in, their offices, Parliament House, they're all pretty hardened
23:29
Speaker 2: as they are now. The vulnerability is when they're out
23:32
Speaker 2: and about with the community. Do we need a police
23:36
Speaker 2: officer or some sort of close personal protection at public
23:40
Speaker 2: events for Australian MPs?
23:44
Speaker 7: I think it would be good to have that luxury, Peter,
23:47
Speaker 7: to afford that to every MP across the board, but
23:50
Speaker 7: I just think logistically it's just not possible and they
23:53
Speaker 7: have to rely on intelligence. And for things that happened
23:57
Speaker 7: like yesterday, which seems to be a very improv sort
24:00
Speaker 7: of an attack, an opportunity attack, was seen and taken,
24:05
Speaker 7: it's very difficult. There's also not just the MPs, Peter,
24:08
Speaker 7: as you would be aware, the staff in these electoral
24:11
Speaker 7: offices quite often face the brunt of angry people coming
24:15
Speaker 7: in from the public as well.
24:16
Speaker 8: So, I mean.
24:17
Speaker 2: You're not telling me anything I don't know.
24:20
Speaker 7: I know. I mean, yes, I've interviewed and been involved
24:24
Speaker 7: in those investigations and, look, it's encouraging that, you know,
24:27
Speaker 7: the AFP is... charged 41 people in the last 12
24:31
Speaker 7: months with these sort of offences. That's great, but it's
24:33
Speaker 7: a 12% increase in the number of threats against politicians.
24:37
Speaker 7: The level of polarisation and hatred that is permissible, it seems,
24:45
Speaker 7: in our country has gone way too far. And, I mean,
24:48
Speaker 7: I couldn't blame, you know, Anthony Albanese in any way
24:51
Speaker 7: for what happened yesterday. But when he says talking, keeping
24:54
Speaker 7: the temperature down, he needs to take a stand when
24:58
Speaker 7: we've got Radical Islamic people in the streets celebrating the
25:02
Speaker 7: attack of Jewish people, and he doesn't stand up and
25:05
Speaker 7: condemn it. He doesn't stand in front of the Australian flag,
25:08
Speaker 7: the one symbol that unites everyone in this country. It's
25:12
Speaker 7: all about division and mumbling about, you know, lowering the temperature.
25:17
Speaker 7: We want to see some action.
25:19
Speaker 2: Yeah, and of course the links, the reported links, the
25:22
Speaker 2: posts attributed to Brendan Nugent relate to his support for
25:27
Speaker 2: the war in Gaza, certainly the Gazan people in the conflict,
25:32
Speaker 2: his support along the lines of Hamas and other things. So,
25:36
Speaker 2: you know, the temperature change for him allegedly post-October 7th
25:42
Speaker 2: I think is of interest here. But just to your
25:45
Speaker 2: point about CPP, close personal protection, yes, it would be expensive.
25:50
Speaker 2: We're talking millions of dollars. I understand that. But we spend...
25:56
Speaker 2: hundreds of millions of dollars, billions of dollars on boondoggles
26:00
Speaker 2: for climate change, on green hydrogen, these billion dollar green
26:04
Speaker 2: hydrogen grants that go nowhere, isn't protecting our very rare democracy,
26:12
Speaker 2: the ability of Australians to meet, to hear from directly
26:17
Speaker 2: their politicians, something that, and I've travelled a lot overseas
26:20
Speaker 2: for politics, I don't ever see overseas the way I
26:23
Speaker 2: see it in Australia. Isn't that worth a few million
26:28
Speaker 2: if that's what's needed?
26:30
Speaker 7: Well, I mean, when it comes to spending money, the
26:33
Speaker 7: Albanese government could easily do that in comparison to some
26:37
Speaker 7: of the other nonsense that they've been funding. It's vital, obviously,
26:41
Speaker 7: for our democracy. It's vital that people have access to politicians,
26:44
Speaker 7: that politicians can... walk around and speak with people. You know,
26:48
Speaker 7: I had to walk around with Pauline Hanson, the heat
26:51
Speaker 7: of it all, and also Prime Minister John Howard during
26:54
Speaker 7: the gun buyback situation, where people were highly motivated. But
27:00
Speaker 7: they need to be able to do that. It's vital
27:01
Speaker 7: for our democracy. We can't have them cut off. And
27:05
Speaker 7: having CPP allows, or closed personal protection, allows them that
27:08
Speaker 7: freedom of movement. I think there'd be money well worth spending.
27:14
Speaker 2: And just quickly, David, I made the point at the
27:16
Speaker 2: top of the show, you know, Labor have now reinvigorated
27:20
Speaker 2: their debate about the digital duty of care legislation, but
27:24
Speaker 2: everything allegedly that happened yesterday to Helen Haynes is already
27:28
Speaker 2: against the law.
27:30
Speaker 7: Of course. There's nothing, I mean, it saddens me to
27:33
Speaker 7: think that the Labor government would stoop to try and
27:37
Speaker 7: benefit off such a tragedy as yesterday to try and
27:41
Speaker 7: get through a largely unpopular bill so that they can
27:44
Speaker 7: start censoring people's opinions.
27:47
Speaker 2: All right, let's talk about the impending release of convicted
27:50
Speaker 2: ISIS terrorist Isaac El-Mattari. Give us his backstory here and what,
27:58
Speaker 2: if anything, we are doing. I hope we are doing
28:00
Speaker 2: something to keep the bloke under watch, if not under
28:05
Speaker 2: lock and key.
28:07
Speaker 7: Well, Isaac El-Mattari left Australia in 2017, was arrested in
28:10
Speaker 7: Lebanon when he was trying to join ISIS, went to
28:12
Speaker 7: jail there got returned to Australia in 2018, was then
28:21
Speaker 7: re-arrested by the AFP 12 months later for planning a
28:24
Speaker 7: terrorist attack. That was in July 2018. In September 2019,
28:33
Speaker 7: just a few months later, while in the maximum security prison,
28:36
Speaker 7: He forwarded a three-page manifesto on how an insurgency and
28:40
Speaker 7: radical Islamic movement could be done with ISIS support and
28:45
Speaker 7: gave it to another prisoner, who was then also convicted
28:48
Speaker 7: for dealing with that material. This person is due to
28:51
Speaker 7: be released into the Australian public, having served his seven
28:55
Speaker 7: years and four months, in less than two weeks. And
28:59
Speaker 7: from what I've read, he hasn't undertaken any de-radicalisation process,
29:04
Speaker 7: but not that I have much faith in that, But
29:06
Speaker 7: more importantly is Home Affairs today, I've been informed, have
29:11
Speaker 7: refused to answer questions whether the Commonwealth is representing the
29:17
Speaker 7: people of Australia to keep this person in beyond his
29:20
Speaker 7: sentence because of privacy concerns. Now, they're taking the privacy
29:24
Speaker 7: concerns of a convicted terrorist above the rights of Australians
29:28
Speaker 7: to know whether one of our most prolific terrorists is
29:32
Speaker 7: going to be free in about 12 days' time.
29:36
Speaker 2: So this infuriates me, David.
29:39
Speaker 8: No, no, no, no, no.
29:40
Speaker 2: It's really important we have the context. This infuriates me
29:42
Speaker 2: because we saw the cameras go in to what I
29:44
Speaker 2: will regard as a stunt today. The Prime Minister in Melbourne,
29:49
Speaker 2: the Home Affairs Minister in Melbourne, The staged police chiefs,
29:53
Speaker 2: Victoria and the AFP chief, there with Ben Carroll, who's
29:56
Speaker 2: fighting for his life in an election campaign, to give
30:00
Speaker 2: the appearances of a briefing. The first point I make,
30:02
Speaker 2: that's the Prime Minister's sitting room in an office. It's
30:05
Speaker 2: not a secure space. If there was a real briefing,
30:08
Speaker 2: it would not be held in that room anyway. That
30:12
Speaker 2: was for the cameras. But how can he come down
30:14
Speaker 2: and have this... you know, presentation for the media in
30:20
Speaker 2: and around the issues regarding Helen Haynes and not answer
30:24
Speaker 2: questions about a convicted Islamic terrorist at the time and
30:30
Speaker 2: the imminent release of this person at a time when
30:33
Speaker 2: our national security threat is at probable.
30:38
Speaker 7: It's unconscionable, Peter. I mean, we've got the laws to
30:41
Speaker 7: keep this person in prison, a continuing detention order, where
30:46
Speaker 7: we can keep him in for another three years reviewed
30:48
Speaker 7: annually if he poses a threat. If he is released,
30:52
Speaker 7: then we can have him under an extended supervision order,
30:55
Speaker 7: which wouldn't be as good. But I would like to
30:57
Speaker 7: see the Prime Minister, instead of being this vacuum when
31:01
Speaker 7: we have anything to do with radical Islam, to stand
31:04
Speaker 7: up and say what he's doing. I would love to
31:06
Speaker 7: see the Prime Minister stand up and say... We think
31:08
Speaker 7: this person is exposing the public to too much of
31:13
Speaker 7: a risk and we're going to do everything we can
31:15
Speaker 7: to keep them in. And if they can't, then at
31:16
Speaker 7: least they've had a go and we know all about it.
31:20
Speaker 2: David Craig, thank you. Wouldn't that be nice? We're not
31:23
Speaker 2: even 12 months on yet. From all those dead Australians,
31:27
Speaker 2: allegedly at the hands of Islamic State-inspired terrorists... We're about
31:32
Speaker 2: to let another one out of jail. All right, after
31:35
Speaker 2: the break, let's cross to London for the latest on
31:36
Speaker 2: those protests that have brought Europe to its knees. And
31:40
Speaker 2: is it too late for the French? We'll get to
31:42
Speaker 2: that too in a moment. Welcome back. Let's get the
31:49
Speaker 2: latest now on those protests that have wreaked havoc across
31:52
Speaker 2: so many European capitals with our News 24 contributor, News
31:56
Speaker 2: Corp Australia's European correspondent, Sophie Ellsworth. So it's made use
32:01
Speaker 2: all around the world, I mean, but for the issues
32:03
Speaker 2: yesterday involving Helen Haynes, it's dominated coverage in Australia. What's
32:08
Speaker 2: the latest?
32:10
Speaker 13: So Peter, the latest on the ground from France is
32:13
Speaker 13: that they've implemented curfews across the country to try and
32:18
Speaker 13: put an immediate stop to these protests and also the
32:21
Speaker 13: ransacking and looting of businesses across France. So they were
32:26
Speaker 13: implemented last night, local time, and they seem to have
32:30
Speaker 13: worked for the moment. But this is really a situation
32:34
Speaker 13: that is incredibly volatile, Peter. and one that remains a
32:38
Speaker 13: concern to French authorities. Now, we know that French President
32:41
Speaker 13: Emmanuel Macron has come under intense criticism for not handling
32:46
Speaker 13: this whole debacle properly. He's now actually travelled out of
32:50
Speaker 13: France and he's been criticised because he's in the Gulf
32:53
Speaker 13: at the moment when France is in a diabolical state.
32:57
Speaker 4: So the next 24 to 48 hours....
33:00
Speaker 13: Will be incredibly interesting to see if they can try
33:04
Speaker 13: and calm the waters there and keep things relatively stable
33:08
Speaker 13: given those horrific scenes we saw over the weekend.
33:13
Speaker 2: It would seem to have been handled better or less
33:17
Speaker 2: volatile in Italy. We know, of course, Bologna and Milan
33:21
Speaker 2: suffered riots, but it seems to have been shut down
33:25
Speaker 2: faster and more comprehensively in Italy than in France.
33:33
Speaker 4: Well, it does, but it hasn't been great for Italy either.
33:36
Speaker 13: But what we've seen in France has occurred widespread across
33:40
Speaker 13: the country. It's not just central to Paris. It's in
33:43
Speaker 13: other cities, including Marseille. which was one of the worst hit.
33:47
Speaker 13: And these protests, which have turned into riots, have been
33:51
Speaker 13: going on for weeks now. We've seen those horrific scenes
33:56
Speaker 13: of the damage. You know, so many people were arrested.
33:59
Speaker 13: Two and a half thousand odd people were arrested. Over
34:02
Speaker 13: 1,000 police injured. So an incredibly serious situation. And one
34:06
Speaker 13: we know is, you know, very telling for Emmanuel Macron,
34:10
Speaker 13: who's in his last six months before there is a
34:13
Speaker 13: French election.
34:14
Speaker 8: Mm-hmm.
34:16
Speaker 2: We've obviously been wall-to-wall coverage here of the alleged attack
34:20
Speaker 2: against Helen Haynes in Australia yesterday. You've had the Anne
34:24
Speaker 2: Widdicombe murder. The man there charged with her murder, politically motivated,
34:30
Speaker 2: of course, has also now been charged with an alleged
34:34
Speaker 2: terror plot against Nigel Farage. At the time, the Farage
34:41
Speaker 2: threats were looked into, but then the case was dropped.
34:45
Speaker 2: And now the linkages have been established between both individuals
34:50
Speaker 2: and this man. And there's obviously been a number of
34:52
Speaker 2: cases of politicians murdered prior to this in the UK.
34:56
Speaker 2: I mean, what's your observations from a country that have
35:00
Speaker 2: dealt with this on the front line, sadly, a lot
35:03
Speaker 2: longer than Australia?
35:04
Speaker 13: Well, Peter, I can tell you here in the UK,
35:09
Speaker 13: the sad situation with Helen Haynes has made headlines here.
35:14
Speaker 13: It's been on every TV and radio outlet extensively since
35:18
Speaker 13: that horrific news broke yesterday. And they're questioning here in
35:23
Speaker 13: Britain how this has happened in Australia. People are asking,
35:26
Speaker 13: you know, what sort of woman is Helen Haynes? What
35:29
Speaker 13: does she stand for? You know, trying to understand. how
35:34
Speaker 13: this horrific incident could have occurred because so often we're
35:38
Speaker 13: reporting about it happening here in the UK, not in Australia.
35:42
Speaker 13: But as you rightly put, the UK has had these
35:45
Speaker 13: situations where MPs have been murdered and And those threats
35:49
Speaker 13: against Nigel Farage, which are now under investigation by the
35:53
Speaker 13: Met Police over allegations they did not handle this correctly.
35:59
Speaker 4: It's very serious here, threats to MPs.
36:01
Speaker 13: And clearly, sadly, this looks like it's exactly what is
36:05
Speaker 13: happening in Australia.
36:08
Speaker 2: I sadly think that's the truth. Sophie Ellsworth, thank you.
36:10
Speaker 2: All right, quick break. After the break, the wonderful John Anderson,
36:14
Speaker 2: of course, Deputy Prime Minister, former Deputy Prime Minister, always
36:18
Speaker 2: a sage source of advice and analysis. He joins me shortly.
36:26
Speaker 2: Welcome back. Coming up, the bold move from VC recipient
36:29
Speaker 2: Ben Roberts-Smith. in his renewed bid to clear his name.
36:35
Speaker 2: We'll get to that in a tick. But of course,
36:37
Speaker 2: when I watched the events play out across Europe, one
36:41
Speaker 2: person I wanted to get on the program was former
36:43
Speaker 2: leader of the Nationals, former Deputy Prime Minister John Anderson,
36:47
Speaker 2: for his analysis and his ability to cut through the noise. John,
36:53
Speaker 2: thank you for joining me. You've studied Europe, you've worked
36:58
Speaker 2: over there, you've read many of the books that have informed,
37:03
Speaker 2: I guess, the debate about where Europe's headed over recent years.
37:06
Speaker 2: And I know we both are big fans of Douglas
37:08
Speaker 2: Murray on that front and others. Give me your sense
37:12
Speaker 2: of what we've seen over the past few days.
37:16
Speaker 12: It's deeply concerning, Peter. You know, I'm a patriot. I
37:19
Speaker 12: passionately believe in this country, its freedoms, its prosperity. But
37:22
Speaker 12: we are part of what might be called Western civilization.
37:25
Speaker 12: We're at a civilizational moment. We are seeing the war
37:28
Speaker 12: on the West. And if you take France, the first
37:31
Speaker 12: thing you've got to say is that it's not unusual
37:33
Speaker 12: for the French to revolt against their governments. Think the
37:36
Speaker 12: French Revolution, the many upsets during the 19th century, the
37:40
Speaker 12: dreadful riots of 1968, middle class French people with a
37:44
Speaker 12: lot to be thankful for wanting to tear their governments down.
37:48
Speaker 12: But there's a new element this time, and it's very,
37:50
Speaker 12: very significant, and it is the Green-Red Alliance. It is
37:56
Speaker 12: the unholy alliance between radical Islamists or committed Islamists and
38:02
Speaker 12: the left. And there's a new element over and above that,
38:06
Speaker 12: which is the self-loathing that has now inflicted so many
38:11
Speaker 12: young people in the West because for 20 years we've
38:14
Speaker 12: been telling them, that they are the inheritors of a
38:17
Speaker 12: Sikh culture, colonialists, imperialists, slave owners. None of the good
38:23
Speaker 12: news about how we secured freedom, prosperity, and we actually,
38:27
Speaker 12: particularly out of Britain, were the first civilisation to ever
38:32
Speaker 12: voluntarily set slaves free and accord people of different skin
38:37
Speaker 12: colour full dignity and rights as fellow citizens. This new
38:43
Speaker 12: white guilt is the element that is really frightening in
38:46
Speaker 12: it because so many of our own people want to
38:50
Speaker 12: tear down our culture.
38:54
Speaker 2: What about the concern about demography, particularly in relationship to France?
39:01
Speaker 2: I guess the loss of faith. I know France is
39:03
Speaker 2: a secular country, but it is a Christian, it's a
39:05
Speaker 2: Catholic country as well. And the argument that this is,
39:09
Speaker 2: it has been for a decade or so now, a
39:12
Speaker 2: really coordinated push via mass migration for Islamists to destroy
39:18
Speaker 2: the West from within.
39:21
Speaker 12: Well, the deputy to Osama bin Laden about 25 years
39:26
Speaker 12: ago indicated that the times were right to collapse. a
39:30
Speaker 12: degenerate and divided West. And he indicated that Europe was
39:34
Speaker 12: the place to start. It was the weakest link. And
39:37
Speaker 12: if you take France today, the reality is, although we
39:40
Speaker 12: hear some talk of Christian revival, religion is very, very
39:44
Speaker 12: important in this whole debate. This is what people are
39:46
Speaker 12: not understanding or not wanting to hear. beliefs drive culture
39:50
Speaker 12: and culture drives politics, at least in a democracy. So
39:55
Speaker 12: in France today, it's estimated that every day 1,500 Catholics pray,
40:00
Speaker 12: 2 million Islamics pray, around 20 Catholic churches are closing
40:07
Speaker 12: every year, around two new mosques being built every year.
40:12
Speaker 12: And as I say, this extraordinary alliance, it's not new.
40:15
Speaker 12: I mean, stop and think that the left in France
40:18
Speaker 12: gave comfort and succour to an exiled Ayatollah Khamenei. And
40:24
Speaker 12: in 1979, he left France. He went back to Iran.
40:28
Speaker 12: Look at the evil he's inflicted on his own people
40:31
Speaker 12: and on the people of that region and internationally, including
40:34
Speaker 12: in Australia. We have to talk about these issues. We
40:39
Speaker 12: have to recognise, I'm afraid, that empty secular humanism, and
40:43
Speaker 12: the French have been the masters at it, cannot cope
40:47
Speaker 12: with the propaganda and the conviction of people who are
40:51
Speaker 12: vehemently opposed to democracy?
40:56
Speaker 2: You know, John, I think there's a relationship between those
40:58
Speaker 2: scenes we saw about three weeks ago on the streets
41:01
Speaker 2: of Paris where we had 800,000 young French people for
41:05
Speaker 2: a mass there with Pope Leo, and it almost feels
41:08
Speaker 2: that this is the reaction in part from that, that
41:11
Speaker 2: demonstrable display of young people searching and yearning for faith,
41:17
Speaker 2: returning back to the France of old, if I can
41:19
Speaker 2: say that. And this feels like that hard Islamist left
41:24
Speaker 2: wants to now reassert some dominance. I was really dismayed
41:28
Speaker 2: over the weekend. I listened to SBS and most of
41:30
Speaker 2: the commercial networks. And they were calling it a cost
41:33
Speaker 2: of living protest or students upset about their conditions. Well,
41:40
Speaker 2: I've never seen a more rich socialist welfare state than France.
41:45
Speaker 2: So their conditions are pretty good. But if you look
41:48
Speaker 2: at what happened, you know, Jewish synagogues were trashed and
41:51
Speaker 2: Muslim businesses, I've seen footage, were protected from rioters breaking
41:57
Speaker 2: their front glass and This was very much about faith
42:02
Speaker 2: and religion.
42:04
Speaker 12: There's no doubt about that. And we have to stop
42:06
Speaker 12: shying away from it. We have to face the fact that, Frances,
42:10
Speaker 12: you're an exemplar of it. They really basically said in
42:12
Speaker 12: the name of secularism, we'll do away with the idea
42:15
Speaker 12: of a transcendent, we'll make government God. And they've grown
42:19
Speaker 12: government to an extraordinary degree. It spends 57%. of the
42:24
Speaker 12: money that the French people earn, if I can put
42:26
Speaker 12: it that way. No one else gets near. And yet
42:29
Speaker 12: that God has never satisfied them. It's not able to
42:32
Speaker 12: give them the spiritual and moral backbone to confront people
42:36
Speaker 12: of different views, different views held with, as we know
42:40
Speaker 12: in many cases, fanatical conviction. Now, there are encouraging signs
42:46
Speaker 12: that our young people, including in Australia, you know, remarkable
42:50
Speaker 12: sort of rising up of awareness that two things we
42:54
Speaker 12: really need to now encourage in our young people, I think,
42:57
Speaker 12: are understanding our story, our real story, understanding and courage,
43:05
Speaker 12: because without understanding and without courage, this civilisational moment that
43:10
Speaker 12: we're in will see us lose the battle. One final
43:14
Speaker 12: remark on that, today's elites... are worried about populism. Most
43:19
Speaker 12: of what they deride as populism is decent people wanting
43:24
Speaker 12: back what they feel has been taken from or they've lost.
43:28
Speaker 12: If the elites want to see the decent people who
43:33
Speaker 12: are worried about their society as Hillary Clinton described them, deplorables,
43:39
Speaker 12: none of us are going to win. It's time we
43:42
Speaker 12: talked openly, honestly and courageously.
43:46
Speaker 2: You are just the shot in the arm that everybody needs, John.
43:49
Speaker 2: We need this powerful reminder that if we sit by,
43:52
Speaker 2: we will lose our heritage. Thank you for your time.
43:57
Speaker 2: Isn't he fantastic, John Anderson there, of course? Great podcast
44:01
Speaker 2: man and all of that, but he's such a strong man.
44:06
Speaker 2: supporter of common sense. Ben Robert Smith, I wanted to
44:09
Speaker 2: mention the Victoria Cross recipient, war hero, of course. He's
44:13
Speaker 2: kicked off a social media blitz over the weekend. He's
44:17
Speaker 2: put out a clothing line. It's called Epic One Two.
44:21
Speaker 2: That's in reference to his former military radio call sign.
44:25
Speaker 2: A whole lot of T-shirts there, of course, and other
44:27
Speaker 2: things you can buy, caps, whatever. But I tell you what,
44:30
Speaker 2: he's taken the bull by the horns. He's got a
44:33
Speaker 2: T-shirt there that is an image, that media shot allowed
44:39
Speaker 2: by the AFP, I might add, of that moment he
44:41
Speaker 2: was arrested on the tarmac in Sydney and he circled
44:45
Speaker 2: their spirit of Australia. Everything I've looked at has sold
44:49
Speaker 2: out online. I got in fast. I've got a singlet
44:53
Speaker 2: to wear to the gym. But if you're interested in
44:56
Speaker 2: supporting him, I know the money is going to help
44:59
Speaker 2: pay for his legal defence. There you go. It's fantastic.
45:03
Speaker 2: Get into that right after the break. The devastating attack
45:05
Speaker 2: on Helen Haynes. We'll look at the issue of Labor
45:09
Speaker 2: pushing today digital censorship after the break. All right, let's
45:18
Speaker 2: get straight into it. Tuesday night panel, Deputy Executive Director
45:21
Speaker 2: of the IPA, Daniel Wild, and broadcaster extraordinaire, Lucy Zellick.
45:25
Speaker 2: Welcome to you both. Let's put the horrible events that
45:30
Speaker 2: have occurred in relation to Helen Haynes to one side.
45:33
Speaker 2: Let's pivot to how quickly this is being used by
45:37
Speaker 2: the government in relation to their digital duty of care.
45:41
Speaker 2: Here's the Prime Minister last night.
45:44
Speaker 8: The.
45:45
Speaker 5: concern if you look at anyone's social media feeds and
45:48
Speaker 5: look at the comments. People will say things that they
45:54
Speaker 5: would never say face to face but the temperature has
45:58
Speaker 5: undoubtedly been increased.
46:02
Speaker 2: This is shameless Dan.
46:06
Speaker 11: It is and it's quite sad because every tragedy offers
46:10
Speaker 11: an opportunity for self-reflection and to do better but As
46:13
Speaker 11: you suggest, it's straightaway gone down into the usual political demarcations.
46:17
Speaker 11: And I think suggesting that social media is the cause
46:22
Speaker 11: of these issues is lazy and it'll also be ineffective. Now,
46:26
Speaker 11: I'm no fan of social media in many ways. There's
46:28
Speaker 11: a lot of vitriol on there. You'd be exposed to
46:30
Speaker 11: all kinds of things.
46:31
Speaker 6: We all are.
46:32
Speaker 11: But social media doesn't cause people to form certain opinions.
46:36
Speaker 11: And it certainly doesn't cause people to act on those opinions.
46:40
Speaker 11: There are many reasons why people choose to do things
46:42
Speaker 11: that they do. So simply trying to say this is
46:45
Speaker 11: social media's fault is a way of trying to get
46:47
Speaker 11: out of providing leadership. And as you've also suggested, I
46:50
Speaker 11: think it's incredibly unfortunate that the government has decided to
46:52
Speaker 11: basically use this as a bit of a cudgel to
46:56
Speaker 11: nudge people into supporting its digital duty of care legislation.
47:00
Speaker 11: You'll remember that they said it was all about protecting kids.
47:03
Speaker 11: Now they're suggesting it's about combating online extremism. Well, if
47:07
Speaker 11: online extremism is a problem, which it certainly is in
47:10
Speaker 11: certain contexts, That would surely be a matter for the
47:12
Speaker 11: security agencies, not for social media regulation.
47:16
Speaker 2: Yeah, I might add there's already a myriad of laws
47:19
Speaker 2: to deal with online extremism. That's how we've locked up
47:23
Speaker 2: half the terrorists in this country. It's not for dint
47:27
Speaker 2: of laws at all. Now, the problem I've got here, though,
47:31
Speaker 2: is as soon as it was revealed by some in
47:34
Speaker 2: the media that he may well have been influenced by
47:37
Speaker 2: the hard left side of politics, we've basically moved off
47:42
Speaker 2: discussion of this individual and and moved on to the
47:45
Speaker 2: realm of digital duty of care. And you've got people
47:48
Speaker 2: like Hannah Ferguson, Lucy, the left-wing activist, put onto TV
47:53
Speaker 2: this morning. She talked about, you know, male violence and
47:57
Speaker 2: a whole lot of other stuff. But look at what
48:00
Speaker 2: she said herself or posted herself, basically celebrating the death
48:05
Speaker 2: of Charlie Kirk and saying that there were acceptable levels
48:10
Speaker 2: of violence.
48:13
Speaker 9: Absolutely disgraceful, Peter, and I think that's what gets most
48:16
Speaker 9: people's noses out of joint is the rank hypocrisy that
48:19
Speaker 9: we're hearing, not just from these left-wing activists like Hannah Ferguson,
48:23
Speaker 9: who asked the question after Charlie Kirk's death, is violence
48:27
Speaker 9: sometimes necessary? Yes, end quote, but also from the Labor government.
48:32
Speaker 9: And I know it's a difficult day to have to
48:34
Speaker 9: point fingers, but as I said, that hypocrisy is what
48:38
Speaker 9: people are really struggling to deal with. Just recently, The
48:40
Speaker 9: Prime Minister himself had to withdraw inflammatory comments directed at
48:44
Speaker 9: the leader of the opposition, Angus Taylor, in question time recently,
48:48
Speaker 9: where he hurled abuse at him and called him fake.
48:51
Speaker 9: And this is the guy that's telling us to turn
48:53
Speaker 9: the temperature down? What about the Attorney-General Michelle Rowland, who
48:57
Speaker 9: victim-blamed Pauline Hanson recently? Awful, awful hypocrisy from all of them.
49:04
Speaker 2: Let's go to private health insurance because we've got half
49:07
Speaker 2: a million part rate pensioners out there that are going
49:10
Speaker 2: to be hit hard with Labor's. I know it got
49:14
Speaker 2: knocked off in the Senate, but it's being confirmed by
49:17
Speaker 2: the government. They're going to come for seniors again. Dan.
49:20
Speaker 2: This is in relation to that rebate for private health insurance.
49:26
Speaker 11: Yeah, well, I mean, this is an example of what
49:27
Speaker 11: happens when the government starts running out of money, they
49:30
Speaker 11: come after your money. And, you know, these are often
49:32
Speaker 11: people that have put in the hard yards throughout their careers,
49:35
Speaker 11: they've done the right thing, they've saved, they've gotten ahead,
49:38
Speaker 11: and they find now that as they get towards the
49:40
Speaker 11: end of their working lives or, in fact, are actually
49:42
Speaker 11: in the retirement stage... that the government's going to pull
49:45
Speaker 11: the rug from underneath them. So, you know, this is
49:48
Speaker 11: really a pathetic attempt by the government to try to
49:50
Speaker 11: get its budget in order. It needs to engage in
49:52
Speaker 11: some serious restraint on the spending side rather than going
49:56
Speaker 11: after Australians who have worked hard.
49:59
Speaker 2: Right, tomorrow night I'm going to get into the EU
50:02
Speaker 2: free trade agreement. The Nats have already come out to
50:04
Speaker 2: say they will not support it. It's a dodgy deal
50:07
Speaker 2: for Australian farmers, but I'm running out of time. Thank
50:10
Speaker 2: you to you both. That's it for me. See you
50:12
Speaker 2: tomorrow night. Here's the Bolt Report.