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In and Out of Uniform with Lisa Kirk · The Trauma Therapist

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Speaker 1: Welcome to the Trauma Therivers podcast. My name is Guimingferson
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Speaker 1: and I interview incredible people who share the story of
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Speaker 1: how trauma has shaped their lives. And a big thank
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Speaker 1: you for sponsoring today's episode goes to my guest and
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Speaker 1: our sponsors. So five four, three, two and one O
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Speaker 1: our folks, welcome back to the podcast. Very excited to
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Speaker 1: have my guests today. Lisa Kirk Lisa welcome. You are welcome. So.
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Speaker 1: Lisa is a retired Army veteran who served twenty one
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Speaker 1: and a half years in the Military Police Corps with
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Speaker 1: deployments and peacekeeping machines and in support of Operation Enduring Freedom.
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Speaker 1: She's the author of In and Out of Uniform, and
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Speaker 1: memoir published in twenty nineteen that shares the highs and
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Speaker 1: lows of her military career, including experiences with mst OR
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Speaker 1: Military Sexual Assault Assault Suicide mTBI and the resilience that
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Speaker 1: carried her through. She spoke out to break the silence
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Speaker 1: many still carry, knowing the toll unspoken trauma can take.
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Speaker 1: She also earned the small paint party business create with
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Speaker 1: Lizze and his passionate about becoming a guest speaker to
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Speaker 1: advocate for those who feel they cannot speak for themselves. Lisa, obviously,
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Speaker 1: just a little bit about you. But before we dive
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Speaker 1: in here, share with the listeners where you're from originally
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Speaker 1: and where you are currently.
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Speaker 2: Hello. I'm originally from Pennsylvania, just Okay, near Philadelphia, near
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Speaker 2: Valley Forge is where The Blob. Oh, my god, where
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Speaker 2: the Blob was filmed. It was a movie back in
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Speaker 2: the sixties. Yeah. That was my first job when I
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Speaker 2: was fifteen years old. Yeah, I was a candy striper. Yeah.
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Speaker 2: And then I joined the army I was twenty one,
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Speaker 2: and then I retired in Missouri. I went, I was
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Speaker 2: all throughout this global country and world with the journey
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Speaker 2: to serve my country. And now I reside here and
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Speaker 2: played in Missouri at south of Fortleanard, big Army base,
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Speaker 2: and I reside with my husband and my three years.
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Speaker 1: I'll say this, I mean, well, talk us through initially
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Speaker 1: your desire to get into the service, and then we'll
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Speaker 1: talk about how everything unfolded for you. If that's okay.
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Speaker 2: Sure. My family is very patriotic. My dad's dad was
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Speaker 2: an infantry soldier in Normandy. My grandfather, my mom's dad,
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Speaker 2: was a Army military police in World War Two. He
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Speaker 2: actually was my inspiration to maintain a rank of master
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Speaker 2: sergeant because he was a master sergeant also in the
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Speaker 2: NPE Corps. And then we just had a lot of
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Speaker 2: family who were in the military, and I grew up
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Speaker 2: with my mom being an army brat with that fine
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Speaker 2: line of respect. I'm the middle child of five, and
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Speaker 2: I always was patriotic, and I believe that it was
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Speaker 2: my time to like serve and be that servant. And
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Speaker 2: I think it was great because I played sports and everything,
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Speaker 2: so physically it wasn't a problem. Mentally it wasn't a
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Speaker 2: problem because I was you know, I'm just me. I'm
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Speaker 2: who I am. I smile a lot, and I just
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Speaker 2: care a lot. I'm selfless service. So I thought this
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Speaker 2: job was for me. So I was determined to do
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Speaker 2: my job successfully. Well, you know, my first duty station,
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Speaker 2: it was expecting and expected, your away from your family.
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Speaker 2: I'm on the West side, I'm in Fort Lewis, Washington,
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Speaker 2: and I'm out with my friends and I live in
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Speaker 2: the barracks. And six months, six months, the brand new soldier,
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Speaker 2: brand new soldier. And this was in ninety six, some
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Speaker 2: way from my family, you know, and just trying to
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Speaker 2: find friends shift work as military please, And I go
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Speaker 2: out my to a club on post and I meet
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Speaker 2: some friends and stuff. And then I go back to
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Speaker 2: the barracks and I'm on the bottom bunk and my
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Speaker 2: roommate had to go to emergency room because she had
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Speaker 2: a migraine, so she left the door and locked, and
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Speaker 2: I didn't think anything would be a problem. So I
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Speaker 2: woke up with the smell of I can't stand the
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Speaker 2: smell of bourbon and Copenhagen and some stale cologne, and
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Speaker 2: it was it was horrible. I mean, I can share
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Speaker 2: some stories because just just just because sensitize a lot
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Speaker 2: of the things I went through.
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Speaker 1: Whatever you come to it really expecting you to come
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Speaker 1: on here and give us all the details. That's that's
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Speaker 1: share whatever you're comfortable with, of course.
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Speaker 2: Okay, So we were.
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Speaker 1: You alone in the barracks at this.
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Speaker 2: Point, Okay, I was. I was the only one in
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Speaker 2: the room because my roommate, who lived on the top buck,
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Speaker 2: slept on the top buck. She would went to the
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Speaker 2: emergency room and she left the door locked because she
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Speaker 2: felt like it would be easier for her to get
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Speaker 2: in because she would be on medication. Or something. All
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Speaker 2: she had to do was just knock. I'm not saying
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Speaker 2: I'm not, but I would feel that you can leave
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Speaker 2: the door locked and nothing would happen. Excuse me, Oh okay,
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Speaker 2: I was two in a room. Yes, it's a barrack room.
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Speaker 2: It's I mean it's a barrack and then there's two
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Speaker 2: to a room. Uh yeah, usually uh sergeants, Uh, they
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Speaker 2: get their own room for themselves and stuff like that.
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Speaker 2: So I didn't know who this individual was who was
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Speaker 2: in my room. The next day, I went over, I
6:22
Speaker 2: knocked on my uh neighbor's door, and I told him
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Speaker 2: what happened. And as I was walking out, because they
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Speaker 2: were going over for it was like a super Bowl
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Speaker 2: party or something like that, I saw the guy walk
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Speaker 2: down the hall and I started to like running after him,
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Speaker 2: and they tackled me, and they say it's not worth
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Speaker 2: it because I was gonna my my the ones who
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Speaker 2: who I was talking to, because I I wanted to
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Speaker 2: I wanted to kick his ass because he violated me,
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Speaker 2: you know, and it's it wasn't right, you know, so
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Speaker 2: uh then and receiving accommodation.
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Speaker 1: Uh they tackled you or did you share this with
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Speaker 1: anyone else, Yes, sir, did you go up the chain
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Speaker 1: of command as it were?
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Speaker 2: Okay, I shared it with I didn't know what to do.
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Speaker 2: I mean back then, I don't remember them expressing a
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Speaker 2: lot about the SHARP program, sexual harassment and right prevention.
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Speaker 2: I don't remember that at all as much as I
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Speaker 2: do now today. Even when I was a leader, I mean,
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Speaker 2: I was at crazy private.
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Speaker 1: Uh.
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Speaker 2: I kept to myself. I just did my I went
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Speaker 2: to the gym more and did my job, you know. Uh,
7:52
Speaker 2: but I didn't really know a lot about who to
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Speaker 2: contact because that was just a private.
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Speaker 1: So.
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Speaker 2: Uh, the fire following Monday, I mean I was in
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Speaker 2: the front leaning rest position, like in a push up position, elevated,
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Speaker 2: and I had no idea why. And my leadership was like,
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Speaker 2: why didn't you contact us?
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Speaker 1: You know?
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Speaker 2: And because my friend's next door who i'd spoken to,
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Speaker 2: went to that super Bowl party and it was the
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Speaker 2: leader's super Bowl party, the platoons, and they said that
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Speaker 2: the new soldier you know, was assaulted or raped. And
8:28
Speaker 2: because they didn't have a lot of detail about it
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Speaker 2: until I expressed it. So I had to go in
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Speaker 2: to see the commander in the next day and he's like, well,
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Speaker 2: what do you want us to do? As he's a
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Speaker 2: high headshed driver, nothing's going to happen to him. And
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Speaker 2: I just sat back. And then the following week he
8:49
Speaker 2: was receiving an award, whether he was moving on to
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Speaker 2: a next staty station or getting out, and I had
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Speaker 2: to go shake his hand. Now, that in itself was
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Speaker 2: a story because I didn't want to shake his hand.
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Speaker 2: They maybe so, so it was. It was weird, like
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Speaker 2: a little voice system.
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Speaker 1: How long ago was this?
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Speaker 2: Okay?
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Speaker 1: Okay? So how do you.
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Speaker 2: This was in nineties ninety six, ninety seven.
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Speaker 1: Personally, emotionally, mentally, how do you move on from this?
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Speaker 1: How are you handling this? Are you handling quote unquote
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Speaker 1: handling this? I?
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Speaker 2: Oh, well, I internalized it a lot because I wanted
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Speaker 2: to just do my job and nobody was listening to me.
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Speaker 2: So it was hard to find trust in people, trust
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Speaker 2: in leadership, those who would know. And I wanted to
9:46
Speaker 2: get out because after that, in ninety nine, my mentor
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Speaker 2: was shot and killed in Korea by a fellow and
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Speaker 2: p she she's an amazing she was an amazing woman.
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Speaker 2: She told me to get my head out of my
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Speaker 2: four point of contact many of times in my career,
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Speaker 2: and I wish she was there because she would have
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Speaker 2: done something and when the situation happened, But yeah, she
10:13
Speaker 2: and I was to the point guy where I just
10:15
Speaker 2: wanted to just get out of the military. But then
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Speaker 2: I met my husband ninety eight and we got married
10:22
Speaker 2: and he had to get out from medical and he
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Speaker 2: was a desert storm veteran, and he said, will you
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Speaker 2: stay in? And I said, I'll stay in. So I
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Speaker 2: carried on twenty plus years. Of course, because I did
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Speaker 2: twenty one and a half, because I retired in twenty seventeen.
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Speaker 2: It was like a repetitive situation in a different way,
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Speaker 2: so cut, you know, like the not some I wasn't
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Speaker 2: raped again. I was assaulted when I was deployed, toxic leadership,
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Speaker 2: All this stuff happens to be part of this good
11:02
Speaker 2: old boy system. And I reflect back, even though I
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Speaker 2: internalize it. It reflects back on the time when I
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Speaker 2: did get raped by this dude, this soldier who was
11:16
Speaker 2: same uniform right as what we wear, what we put
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Speaker 2: on to protect our country, same unit. But he was
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Speaker 2: a driver for some way of higher ranking. So they
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Speaker 2: felt like they didn't want to do anything for him.
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Speaker 2: No one they.
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Speaker 1: Stepped up for you. They were like, no, male men
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Speaker 1: stepped in and said, what the EPP is going on?
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Speaker 2: Jesus, Nope, nope.
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Speaker 1: No.
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Speaker 2: I internalized it and drove on. And you know, then
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Speaker 2: then when I was in Afghanistan, I was sexually assaulted
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Speaker 2: by a friend of mine who I didn't think it
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Speaker 2: would ever happen out of all the people, and his
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Speaker 2: spouse was even in Afghanistan. It was crazy, and I
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Speaker 2: was just completely shocked, and I got I was to
12:16
Speaker 2: the point where he was working for the general, so
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Speaker 2: within our unit we were like stretched out. We're convoy operations.
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Speaker 2: I work with the Navy Seals as a female marshal
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Speaker 2: every now and then, but there was a team that
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Speaker 2: worked for the General and he worked for them. So
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Speaker 2: even if I said something, it wouldn't matter to me
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Speaker 2: in my mind because.
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Speaker 1: Unfortunately the answer to the question already But did you
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Speaker 1: were you able to seek any help, any kind of
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Speaker 1: quote unquote therapy or anything?
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Speaker 2: Okay, yes, I yes, yes. And at first I thought
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Speaker 2: my security clearance was gonna like be taken from me
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Speaker 2: because I'm seeking mental health. But I knew that I
13:14
Speaker 2: had to be taken care of because my journey in
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Speaker 2: the military like happened. Not fast, but I moved up
13:23
Speaker 2: pretty quick in the military, like you know, deployed, and
13:28
Speaker 2: then I put myself on drill star in orders, you know,
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Speaker 2: and then I become a first sergeant, you know, which
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Speaker 2: is like a master sergeant E eight in the army,
13:37
Speaker 2: one step away from being a sire major. And this
13:40
Speaker 2: is within fifteen years of my career. And I realized
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Speaker 2: that I have to take care of those underneath me,
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Speaker 2: and if I can't take care of myself, I can't
13:50
Speaker 2: take care of those individuals. So I was getting into
13:54
Speaker 2: my head because there's a lot of I was like,
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Speaker 2: what's wrong with me? You know? I thought that there
13:58
Speaker 2: was something seriously wrong with me, because why is this
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Speaker 2: happening to me?
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Speaker 1: You know?
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Speaker 2: I stand up for myself. A lot of people think
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Speaker 2: I'm intimidating, but they mistaken like kindness for weakness. And
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Speaker 2: it breaks my heart knowing that stuff like this is
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Speaker 2: not did not only happen to me, but sharing a
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Speaker 2: lot of things that I did from writing my book,
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Speaker 2: a lot of other people, a lot of other women
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Speaker 2: and men who had spoken to.
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Speaker 1: Well and out of uniform. So before we start talking
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Speaker 1: about the book and getting into the specifics, Lisa, how
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Speaker 1: I mean a lot of times people manage differently, people
14:48
Speaker 1: get depressed, people become addicted, whatever they've shut down. What
14:54
Speaker 1: were there symptoms going on for you as a result.
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Speaker 2: Of all this, Yes, I stepped down a couple times
15:05
Speaker 2: when I was a first sergeant, when I was in
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Speaker 2: charge of a company. I also when I was a
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Speaker 2: drill start and started seeking help because I was just
15:15
Speaker 2: coming back from dealing with my deployment with a lot
15:21
Speaker 2: of things I went through there, and then everything just
15:23
Speaker 2: started coming into fruition because you internalized things right, and
15:28
Speaker 2: then things just kind of like unpacked, like packing a
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Speaker 2: suitcase and explodes. Well, that's what was going on with me,
15:34
Speaker 2: and I started having medical issues, not only headaches from
15:39
Speaker 2: multiple concussions, you know in a blast. I started having
15:44
Speaker 2: other like injuries and issues that I've never really happened
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Speaker 2: to me before because I'm really physically fit. So I
15:52
Speaker 2: had to talk to somebody about that, and it didn't
15:55
Speaker 2: stop me from still doing my job. I had to
15:58
Speaker 2: realize that even today, I'm so selfless service I prefer
16:02
Speaker 2: to take care of others and myself, but I almost
16:05
Speaker 2: shut down. I'm my last duty station. A mist took
16:07
Speaker 2: my life because I got to the same point where
16:10
Speaker 2: nobody was listening to you.
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Speaker 1: So admire and appreciate your service and for coming on
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Speaker 1: here and for writing the memoir. I can't imagine like
16:18
Speaker 1: going through this. You you selflessly go in to serve
16:25
Speaker 1: the country, you want to serve the country, and you
16:29
Speaker 1: get freaking assaulted, and there's nowhere else to go. You
16:34
Speaker 1: can't go, there's no outlet, there's no help. In a
16:37
Speaker 1: sense that in and of itself is traumatizing. How did
16:44
Speaker 1: you get to the point where you wanted to write
16:48
Speaker 1: this memoir? Talk us through that?
16:56
Speaker 2: I went to the Winded Warrior Program in Fort Riley, Kansas.
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Speaker 2: That was my last duty station, and I had to
17:07
Speaker 2: step down because I had suicide intentions. I didn't have
17:13
Speaker 2: anybody my family was here, and nobody was listening to me.
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Speaker 2: I felt like I was just speaking out nobody.
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Speaker 1: About Okay, So about eighteen.
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Speaker 2: I had like two or three years left. Wow, okay
17:30
Speaker 2: observed about eighteen years. It's it's it's really alone at
17:35
Speaker 2: the top sometimes, especially if you're not like into like
17:39
Speaker 2: things that other people are into, or you know, if
17:43
Speaker 2: you don't know anybody, or if you don't have your
17:45
Speaker 2: family around, it's very lonely, even though you have coping skills.
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Speaker 2: So I went to the Wounded Warrior Program. It's hard
17:52
Speaker 2: for me to do that.
17:53
Speaker 1: The program within the army as.
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Speaker 2: A higher ranking yeah, where they take people, They take
18:01
Speaker 2: soldiers alike and they bring them into this facility and
18:06
Speaker 2: they give them the treatment they need before they get out.
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Speaker 1: Gerald vest a long time ago, who was one of
18:13
Speaker 1: the founders of the Wounded Warrior Program. So I continue, please,
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Speaker 1: So you go there. What do you say to that?
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Speaker 2: Yes, I go. I really didn't say much. I was
18:28
Speaker 2: a hot mess because I was mad because I felt
18:30
Speaker 2: like I failed. I failed myself and I failed my
18:32
Speaker 2: family and I failed my country because I didn't finish
18:35
Speaker 2: up what I wanted to do before I retired. I
18:37
Speaker 2: felt like I stepped down multiple times, not just because
18:41
Speaker 2: of my mental because the fact that there was like
18:44
Speaker 2: nobody listening to me for what I believe in and
18:50
Speaker 2: what I need to stand up for. You know what's
18:52
Speaker 2: going on with me. So they said, we're going to
18:57
Speaker 2: send you somewhere where you can get treatment for PTSD
19:00
Speaker 2: and told a brain injury. So they sent me up
19:04
Speaker 2: to Okay, I Yeah, I told my therapists about anything
19:10
Speaker 2: I told I. I just gave them everything that I
19:13
Speaker 2: was dealing with. Yes, there are days that I didn't
19:16
Speaker 2: want to get up out of bed. They had to
19:18
Speaker 2: come and get me. Uh many times I had to
19:22
Speaker 2: go to a hospital. I had really bad migraines. I
19:24
Speaker 2: pass out. I mean, I was just a hot mess.
19:27
Speaker 2: I was there longer than I should have been because
19:30
Speaker 2: everything just started falling out on me, like medical and mentally.
19:35
Speaker 2: So they set me over for six month treatment over
19:37
Speaker 2: to Minneapolis. I drove up there to Minneapolis the VA Hospital,
19:43
Speaker 2: and I was impatient for six months. I was impatient
19:47
Speaker 2: for like. It helped me out tremendously. I learned a
19:52
Speaker 2: lot about the botox for the migraines. I did cognitive
19:56
Speaker 2: process thinking with a therapist for twelve weeks. I caught
20:02
Speaker 2: myself up up on the top floor in the fetal
20:05
Speaker 2: position because a lot of stuff started popping out. Then
20:08
Speaker 2: I said to come up and get me. I mean,
20:12
Speaker 2: everything just starts popping out. And thank god I was
20:15
Speaker 2: inpatient during that time, and I wasn't like out and
20:19
Speaker 2: about so, I mean, because then you like what you
20:23
Speaker 2: were talking about as far as you know, addictions and
20:25
Speaker 2: stuff like that. I don't think i'd be addicted to anything,
20:28
Speaker 2: you know, but I learned that like talking about everything,
20:35
Speaker 2: and I had to write. If I get emotional, I apologize.
20:38
Speaker 2: But just writing a lot about what happened to me
20:41
Speaker 2: and how to read over it over and over again,
20:44
Speaker 2: just read it in my head over and over again.
20:46
Speaker 2: It helped me to sensitize a lot of the information,
20:49
Speaker 2: so it kind of helps me heal and learn from it.
20:54
Speaker 2: But I sat down as I was finishing up my
20:57
Speaker 2: college degree. I started to write this book in support
21:02
Speaker 2: of others because I realized that I'm not alone.
21:05
Speaker 1: At that point, hold on, I'm gonna sneeze a second.
21:08
Speaker 1: Hold on, okay, pardon me. It was at that time
21:13
Speaker 1: that you decided to write the book. You were still
21:16
Speaker 1: in in treatment. What was the process? What did you
21:21
Speaker 1: say to yourself? How did you realize you wanted to
21:23
Speaker 1: write the book? And why?
21:30
Speaker 2: Many reasons UH for writing the book was knowing if
21:35
Speaker 2: if I a senior non commissioned officer in the United
21:39
Speaker 2: States Army Military Police Corps, of all, you know, I'm not.
21:44
Speaker 2: I'm not saying anything about any other moss, but I'm
21:47
Speaker 2: just saying ones who defend, protect, you know, and and
21:54
Speaker 2: assist uh. Knowing that there are so many people out
22:02
Speaker 2: there who do not speak up of what happened in
22:06
Speaker 2: their past or what's going on in their life or
22:09
Speaker 2: in their unit. They're gonna wind up having sane problems
22:13
Speaker 2: as I'm having mentally they can't, They're gonna internalize it
22:17
Speaker 2: and it's gonna affect them physically and emotionally. So I
22:21
Speaker 2: wrote this book as a resource to let them know
22:25
Speaker 2: that I went through it. But there's another there's the
22:30
Speaker 2: other side of it. There's the other side. It's called
22:33
Speaker 2: coping skills therapy. Don't be embarrassed to go to therapy,
22:39
Speaker 2: you know, take your medications if you need to take it,
22:42
Speaker 2: you know, and seek treatment.
22:44
Speaker 1: It seems to me, and correct me if I'm wrong,
22:46
Speaker 1: that it's one thing to be able to or want
22:53
Speaker 1: to speak up like you wanted to speak up. But
22:56
Speaker 1: it feels it feels like from what you said there
22:59
Speaker 1: way is that there was a sense of hopelessness. No
23:03
Speaker 1: who do I go to, No one's gonna listen? Is
23:08
Speaker 1: is that that's had? Have things changed in the military
23:11
Speaker 1: at all? Are there is there more awareness? Are there
23:14
Speaker 1: more resources? In place for for for women.
23:23
Speaker 2: Uh from what I was told, a guy, they have
23:26
Speaker 2: a civilian who comes in like somebody from out of
23:30
Speaker 2: the unit who comes in to investigate. Now, I mean
23:34
Speaker 2: I don't know. To me, I understand, but I'm hoping
23:39
Speaker 2: it would be somebody from a from one side of
23:42
Speaker 2: the state to the other who doesn't know anybody, because
23:45
Speaker 2: I mean, I came into a situation. Give me a second.
23:48
Speaker 2: Like when I left Fort leonard Wood, Missouri to get
23:51
Speaker 2: to my last duty station in Fort Riley, there was
23:54
Speaker 2: a civilian who I knew, who was in the Military
23:57
Speaker 2: Police Corp who retired moved down to Fort Riley to
24:01
Speaker 2: be a liaison down there. And before I even went
24:06
Speaker 2: down there to be a first sergeant, everybody knew about me.
24:10
Speaker 2: I lasted five months. My star, a major down there,
24:12
Speaker 2: knew me before I could even show my face. So
24:17
Speaker 2: as long as that civilian is like somebody who nobody
24:22
Speaker 2: knows within the.
24:24
Speaker 1: Unit, kind of a neutral party.
24:26
Speaker 2: Then I think it would be safe. Yeah yeah, because
24:31
Speaker 2: it if not, then nobody speaks up.
24:33
Speaker 3: So your book is for whom I anybody can understand it,
24:43
Speaker 3: because I think I try to make it like civilian
24:47
Speaker 3: terminology so it's not like you know, military read There
24:52
Speaker 3: may be some words in there, but there are no
24:55
Speaker 3: names in there.
24:57
Speaker 2: You can kind of tell what's what. The book is
25:01
Speaker 2: just short stories to share with those maybe who face
25:05
Speaker 2: the challenges that I face, just to inspire me, to
25:09
Speaker 2: inspire motivate them to never give up and speak up
25:11
Speaker 2: because we all have a voice. People shut down, you know,
25:15
Speaker 2: they don't want to speak, you know, and that's why
25:18
Speaker 2: we I mean, I can tell you, like so many
25:22
Speaker 2: friends who I lost based off of stuff that has
25:28
Speaker 2: happened to me, has had they took their life or
25:33
Speaker 2: they're addicted to something. So there's got to be a
25:36
Speaker 2: way for them to understand that there's more than life.
25:40
Speaker 2: Then just sometimes you just can't let go. And it's
25:44
Speaker 2: hard for me to let go sometimes. But yes, just
25:46
Speaker 2: a resource.
25:47
Speaker 1: After any obstacles in writing this book in terms of
25:52
Speaker 1: like from the military, I mean.
25:55
Speaker 3: Is it is it.
25:58
Speaker 1: Easy in a sense to write a book like this,
26:00
Speaker 1: like logic logistically, Oh, I'm going to write this and
26:04
Speaker 1: obviously it has some You're making a pretty big statement
26:09
Speaker 1: by saying that you're basically calling out, justifiably so the military.
26:17
Speaker 1: Did you receive any backlash in a sense, I have.
26:21
Speaker 2: Not received backlash. Well, the only critique I received was
26:25
Speaker 2: from an old well, my first first sergeant. He said
26:29
Speaker 2: that I spelled McClellan wrong. It was a typo for McClellan, Alabama,
26:35
Speaker 2: so it was spelled wrong. I think it was just
26:36
Speaker 2: an edit typo from them. But I know I have
26:40
Speaker 2: not received any backlash. I did receive a message from
26:44
Speaker 2: a friend of mine who I was deployed with. She's
26:48
Speaker 2: messaged me on Facebook and she's like, Hey, can I
26:51
Speaker 2: talk to you? And I was like sure. She was
26:54
Speaker 2: the spouse who was married to that sergeant who yasically
27:00
Speaker 2: assaulted me out there, And she's like I thought it
27:03
Speaker 2: would be him, and they're no longer together. She's remarried.
27:07
Speaker 1: Wow. Has this brought to you in contact with other
27:13
Speaker 1: women or men who've experienced this?
27:18
Speaker 2: When I when I do, when I guest speak. I
27:22
Speaker 2: went to Indianapolis and I think it was twenty twenty one,
27:26
Speaker 2: and it was a Disabled Army veteran event and I
27:32
Speaker 2: had ninety five women from all services from the Whack
27:37
Speaker 2: all the way to Current and we're in a hangar
27:40
Speaker 2: and the dav bought one hundred books and they gave
27:46
Speaker 2: each lady a copy. So after I spoke, I had
27:49
Speaker 2: a line all the way to the back of the hangar,
27:52
Speaker 2: and some lady was I felt so bad. She was
27:54
Speaker 2: doing a death by PowerPoint presentation. And each lady, each
27:59
Speaker 2: lady had a story. I wish I was there. I
28:02
Speaker 2: was flying, so I couldn't stick around long enough to
28:05
Speaker 2: kind of, you know, sit down and listen to them.
28:07
Speaker 2: But each lady who I signed their book, they all
28:10
Speaker 2: had a story from whatever generation. Maybe. Yeah, it's pretty sad.
28:17
Speaker 2: I mean, I don't know. We don't hear a lot
28:21
Speaker 2: of that. And it's okay, you know, and I know,
28:26
Speaker 2: I know as you.
28:28
Speaker 1: Sit here now and as we kind of wind down,
28:31
Speaker 1: but how are you feeling about how are you doing
28:36
Speaker 1: right now in your life?
28:40
Speaker 2: I'm okay, I'm okay. I'll be uh, I'll be fifty
28:46
Speaker 2: one in September. I feel like I'm going through one
28:50
Speaker 2: of those midlife crisis, you know. I'm looking into writing
28:54
Speaker 2: another book, and it's one of those transition books. When
29:00
Speaker 2: people get out, soldiers get out, they take off that uniform,
29:02
Speaker 2: they get lost. So I'm trying to write a book about,
29:07
Speaker 2: you know, ways that they don't have to be lost
29:11
Speaker 2: wherever they go, and the resources out there. I have
29:15
Speaker 2: my paint party business keeps me going. I'm taking care
29:18
Speaker 2: of myself, getting myself checked out via surgeries and appointments,
29:25
Speaker 2: you know, trying to trying to do things, you know,
29:29
Speaker 2: keep meself going well.
29:31
Speaker 1: Lisa, I mean, I just admire you so much for
29:38
Speaker 1: sitting here, for being here, for reaching out to me,
29:40
Speaker 1: and for coming on here and sharing your story, and
29:42
Speaker 1: for writing your book. I mean, I can't imagine how
29:47
Speaker 1: that that was easy at all, especially within the whole
29:50
Speaker 1: context of things. And I think it's you doing an
29:52
Speaker 1: incredible service for speaking out and for helping other people
29:57
Speaker 1: like yourself. How do people learn more about you and
30:00
Speaker 1: reach out to you and get the book?
30:05
Speaker 2: Thank you guy? My my books on Amazon. Uh. If
30:09
Speaker 2: you look up Lisa kirk k I R k uh
30:14
Speaker 2: in and out of uniform. If you google my book title,
30:18
Speaker 2: it might take you to some guys with no shirts on.
30:21
Speaker 2: I didn't realize that when I did the title. Uh.
30:26
Speaker 2: But yeah, it's a you can do. Uh. I think
30:29
Speaker 2: it's a kindle or a just as it's it's not
30:33
Speaker 2: a hardback, so it's a soft book. It's an easy read.
30:35
Speaker 3: Okay.
30:36
Speaker 2: My social media UH, if you're everyone to just get
30:39
Speaker 2: in touch with me is if you go to w
30:42
Speaker 2: w W dot create with l I s e e
30:49
Speaker 2: dot com, create with licy dot com. Uh, it has
30:53
Speaker 2: my contact information where you can get my book and
30:58
Speaker 2: I wrote I wrote a song too as well.
31:00
Speaker 1: Awesome, awesome, awesome, all right, we'll have I'm putting that here.
31:08
Speaker 1: We'll have that linked up here at the show notes
31:11
Speaker 1: page at the Trauma Therapist podcast dot com, both your
31:13
Speaker 1: book and your website. Ah, Lisa, appreciate you and Jesus
31:23
Speaker 1: thank you for you for what you're doing. We'll be in.
31:25
Speaker 2: Touch, yes, sir, thank you.
31:27
Speaker 1: For take care of you too. By man h