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Wife/baby killer Scott Peterson to face new jury? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Imagine on Christmas Eve, eight
0:17
Speaker 1: months pregnant, suddenly a mom to be expecting her first
0:22
Speaker 1: child goes missing somehow, and all the hullabaloo the facts
0:28
Speaker 1: surrounding the murder of Lacy Peterson and her unborn child, Connor,
0:33
Speaker 1: have gotten somehow lost in the sauce. But in a
0:37
Speaker 1: stunning development in the last hours, the case is back
0:41
Speaker 1: on the hot seat Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Pat
0:59
Speaker 1: Harris was involved in Peterson's initial trial and will represent
1:03
Speaker 1: him in Stanislaus County. We are satisfied that we're going
1:06
Speaker 1: to get our day in court. If they want to
1:08
Speaker 1: retry it, we'll be there, and boy well we will
1:11
Speaker 1: be there bigger and better than they've ever seen. Harris says.
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Speaker 1: The process will require a whole new jury then, because
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Speaker 1: they haven't heard the evidence, you basically have to do
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Speaker 1: the entire trial again. Also, there's the hearing leader this
1:24
Speaker 1: month in San Mateo County Superior Court where it will
1:28
Speaker 1: be decided Peterson's conviction should be tossed out. In August,
1:31
Speaker 1: the California Supreme Court overturned his two thousand and five
1:34
Speaker 1: death sentence, and then in October the same court ordered
1:38
Speaker 1: a new hearing because of prejudicial misconduct by a juror.
1:42
Speaker 1: That juror failed to reveal that, while pregnant, she'd sought
1:45
Speaker 1: a restraining order against her boyfriend's ex girlfriend. You're hearing
1:49
Speaker 1: our friends at Fox forty News. If you couldn't make
1:52
Speaker 1: sense out of that mouthful of sentences. Here's the bombshell.
1:56
Speaker 1: The state there's Stanislaus County has announced it is seeking
2:02
Speaker 1: the death penalty yet again on convicted wife killer Scott Peterson.
2:08
Speaker 1: This after a series of legal reversals for the state.
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Speaker 1: With me and all star panel to break it down
2:16
Speaker 1: and put it back together again. First of all, Laura
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Speaker 1: Urretzian joining us from LA, member of Scott Peterson's original
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Speaker 1: defense team. New York Psychologists joining us from Manhattan. Karen
2:28
Speaker 1: Start at Karen Start with ThEC dot Com. Bobby Chicone,
2:33
Speaker 1: former special agent FBI, now screenwriter on Criminal Minds, Professor
2:38
Speaker 1: Forensics Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet
2:42
Speaker 1: and star of a brand new series, Poisonous Liaisons on
2:46
Speaker 1: the True Crime Network. Joseph Scott Morgan, but first to
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Speaker 1: Crime Online dot Com investigative reporter Alexis Terres Chuck, Alexis,
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Speaker 1: You and I were there every single day of the trial.
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Speaker 1: I was not surprised. I will have to say I
3:01
Speaker 1: was relieved when Scott Peterson was convicted the first time.
3:04
Speaker 1: But now it's all gone to hell in a handbag?
3:07
Speaker 1: What happened? So Scott has been wait Waite White right there, Alexis,
3:15
Speaker 1: what are y'all friends? Now? Are you expecting him over
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Speaker 1: for dinner one night? You're going to introduce him to
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Speaker 1: your baby boy? Why are you calling him? Buy's first name?
3:26
Speaker 1: I didn't know You're on a first name basis was
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Speaker 1: Scott Peterson. We are not on a first name basis him.
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Speaker 1: He is good to know. He is not coming to
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Speaker 1: my house because he is still in a prison. He
3:36
Speaker 1: is still in the San Quentin prison. The news is
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Speaker 1: but he is on death row. Still he has been convicted.
3:42
Speaker 1: He has been found guilty by a jury of killing
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Speaker 1: his wife, Lady Peterson, and their unborn son Connor. Here's
3:49
Speaker 1: the thing. The Supreme Court in California has ruled that
3:53
Speaker 1: he can get a new death penalty trial. That means
4:00
Speaker 1: that the sentence of the death penalty has been overturned.
4:04
Speaker 1: And this was a unanimous decision. So what they're saying is,
4:07
Speaker 1: right now, you are still convicted, you are still guilty,
4:11
Speaker 1: but your sentencing is going to be discussed again. We're
4:16
Speaker 1: going to have a new trial, and this has got
4:20
Speaker 1: up for argument again. So bottom line, the Scott Peterson
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Speaker 1: case was what we call a bifurcated trial. As part one,
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Speaker 1: it's the guilt innocent's phase, where it was determined Scott
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Speaker 1: Peterson did in fact murderous wife Lacy and throw her
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Speaker 1: body and Connor the unborn baby's body into the coal
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Speaker 1: choppy waters of the San Francisco Bay where he fished
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Speaker 1: that day that she went missing. The second part of
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Speaker 1: the buy forcated trial is the penalty phase. The California
4:55
Speaker 1: Supreme Court has ruled that the penalty itself only the
5:00
Speaker 1: penalty is reversed and has to be retried. Now the state,
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Speaker 1: did they not, Alexis tres Check have the ride to
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Speaker 1: just say, oh, you know what, we're just going to
5:09
Speaker 1: settle for life behind bars. He would then come home
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Speaker 1: from San Quentin, come off death row, and go to
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Speaker 1: a regular CI correctional institute. But that's not what they decided,
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Speaker 1: is it, Alexis. Nope, it is not at all what
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Speaker 1: they decided, and they did not waste any time. They
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Speaker 1: immediately announced they are going to try the death penalty
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Speaker 1: phase again and they are again going to seek the
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Speaker 1: death penalty. They're not going to try to get life
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Speaker 1: imprisoned without the possibility of girls. They are still going
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Speaker 1: to ask a new jury that will be set up
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Speaker 1: just for the penalty base to give him the death
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Speaker 1: penalty again. Take a listen to our friend Diegit Fitzpatrick
5:43
Speaker 1: kc are A three knees and that breaking news is
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Speaker 1: on a high profile case out of Modesto. The California
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Speaker 1: Supreme Court has now overturned the two thousand and five
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Speaker 1: death sentants for Scott Peterson and the slaying of his
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Speaker 1: then pregnant wife. The courts still upheld the two thousand
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Speaker 1: for murder conviction in the killing of Lacy Peterson, who
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Speaker 1: was eight months pregnant with their son at the time.
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Speaker 1: The court said that the trial judge made a series
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Speaker 1: of clear and significant errors in jury selection that under
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Speaker 1: longstanding United States Supreme Court precedent undermined Peterson's right to
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Speaker 1: an impartial jury in the penalty phase. Investigators said that
6:20
Speaker 1: on Christmas Eve two thousand and two, Peterson dumped the
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Speaker 1: bodies from his fishing boat into the San Francisco Bay,
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Speaker 1: where they surface months later. Prosecutors have said that they
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Speaker 1: may try again for the same penalty sentence if they wish.
6:33
Speaker 1: In the high profile case and the follow up to
6:36
Speaker 1: that is in the last hours of state has a
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Speaker 1: nounced it will seek the death penalty against Scott Peterson.
6:43
Speaker 1: Is it mute? Is it for nothing? The governor in California,
6:47
Speaker 1: although the DP is constitutional in California, has pronounced a
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Speaker 1: moratorium on the DP for now, But clearly it takes
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Speaker 1: so long for anyone to be put to death that
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Speaker 1: Governor Newson will be long gone by the time Peterson
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Speaker 1: is convicted again if he gets the death penalty sentence
7:07
Speaker 1: again and ultimately gets the death penalty. Joining me right now,
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Speaker 1: special guest Laura GARETTSI and joining me from la renowned
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Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney. She was on the original defense team
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Speaker 1: for Scott Peterson. Are you surprised at the state is
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Speaker 1: again seeking the death penalty on Peterson? No, not really,
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Speaker 1: I was expecting him to do that. They'd invested a
7:27
Speaker 1: lot of time and energy in getting the conviction and
7:30
Speaker 1: of course the death penalty I was just surprised at
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Speaker 1: the way they did it. They announced it in the courtroom,
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Speaker 1: and the defense had no idea it was coming. As
7:39
Speaker 1: far as with the decision itself, it had been maybe
7:43
Speaker 1: a month and a half to two months since the
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Speaker 1: Supreme Court decision, and they announced their decision to go
7:54
Speaker 1: for the death penalty again and retry that in the
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Speaker 1: court question, do you, Laura Uretts, why are you not
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Speaker 1: surprised at State is seeking the DP on Scott Peterson again?
8:04
Speaker 1: And why are you surprised they announced it? They were
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Speaker 1: having a hearing, Scott Peterson was there via video link.
8:10
Speaker 1: Why not go ahead and let everybody know what's happening.
8:13
Speaker 1: The reason that I'm not surprised about the decision is
8:17
Speaker 1: that not necessarily because I believe one way or the
8:20
Speaker 1: other as far as Scott Peterson is concerned. I mean,
8:23
Speaker 1: I clearly my position will has always been in the
8:25
Speaker 1: position of the defense team, and I'm sure you could
8:27
Speaker 1: hear it when Pat Harris was speaking about in its
8:30
Speaker 1: current attorney that the defense team always believed and was
8:34
Speaker 1: very supportive of Scott and we believed that he was
8:37
Speaker 1: stone called innocent. And as far as the decision, I mean,
8:42
Speaker 1: I always knew the prosecution was always out to get it.
8:48
Speaker 1: We're going to do everything possible to get Scott, and
8:51
Speaker 1: they're just not going to walk away from it. So
8:53
Speaker 1: does that surprise you think the state was quote out
8:58
Speaker 1: to get Scott your I mean their prosecutors, and their
9:02
Speaker 1: job is if they go after somebody, the idea is
9:05
Speaker 1: that they would put them in prison. If it's a murder,
9:07
Speaker 1: they'd want them to go away for life or get
9:09
Speaker 1: the death penalty. I mean, that's what they do. So
9:11
Speaker 1: it's not when you say they're get him. When you
9:16
Speaker 1: say they're to get him, I mean to Bobby, some
9:19
Speaker 1: people call this seek king justice. That's what some people
9:24
Speaker 1: would say, Bobby. But a defendant, oh way, deserves justice,
9:28
Speaker 1: not just I think Lacey and Connor deserves justice because
9:31
Speaker 1: the people who are really perpetrated this crime should be
9:34
Speaker 1: arrested and tried, not the wrong person. I would very
9:37
Speaker 1: I would very much hope that the prosecutors are out
9:39
Speaker 1: to give stop fears, and I would hope that they're
9:41
Speaker 1: out to get anybody to commit such an as murder.
9:43
Speaker 1: I mean, that's the essential. That's their job. Their job
9:46
Speaker 1: is to go out and get the people responsible for
9:49
Speaker 1: these changious crimes. But I don't mind the way's being
9:51
Speaker 1: said they're out to get him. I don't think they're
9:54
Speaker 1: out to get anybody like some kind of vendetta. I
9:57
Speaker 1: think they're out to seek justice to convict the person
10:02
Speaker 1: that committed a double murder. Absolutely they are, and they
10:05
Speaker 1: conducted a proper investigation. I was part of that investigation,
10:08
Speaker 1: and they had the evidence. And so now you go
10:11
Speaker 1: after the person that you are evidence to supports having
10:15
Speaker 1: committed the crime. And they did that, and they went
10:17
Speaker 1: to trial, and they presented that evidence to a jury
10:19
Speaker 1: and they got a conviction. Exactly what they were supposed
10:21
Speaker 1: to do. They upheld their responsibilities that people are saying
10:24
Speaker 1: to help Bunting Time stories with Nancy Grace. Guys, we
10:40
Speaker 1: are talking about the case of Scott Peterson, convicted in
10:43
Speaker 1: the murder of his wife Lacy and their unborn child, Connor.
10:48
Speaker 1: She goes missing on Christmas Eve is last person confirmed
10:53
Speaker 1: to have seen her alive. Other people have said they
10:56
Speaker 1: saw her walking in the part the fault that morning, However,
11:00
Speaker 1: those stories have been discredited. He also said that morning
11:06
Speaker 1: that he had been out playing golf, but then after
11:09
Speaker 1: realizing he was spotted at the San Francisco Marina, changed
11:13
Speaker 1: his story to fishing, clearly placing himself at the scene
11:19
Speaker 1: where her body washes up. He says he was fishing
11:24
Speaker 1: on the San Francisco Bay the morning she goes missing.
11:27
Speaker 1: Her body washes up off the San Francisco Bay. Then
11:31
Speaker 1: within twenty four hours, the baby has washed up as well.
11:35
Speaker 1: To Joseph Scott Morgan, Professor forensics, Jacksonville State University, an
11:39
Speaker 1: author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon, what do
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Speaker 1: you consider to be the most powerful evidence in the case.
11:46
Speaker 1: I think it's probably going to come down to the
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Speaker 1: timeline and placing Scott Peterson, you know, in these questionable locations.
11:54
Speaker 1: I think that that's really the only thing that the
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Speaker 1: defense has to hang I mean, its prosecution has to
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Speaker 1: hang their hat on. One of the problems with Lacy
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Speaker 1: and Connor's bodies is that there's nothing definitive, and this
12:10
Speaker 1: has been stated over and over again that there was
12:13
Speaker 1: any kind of man made trauma that you could see
12:16
Speaker 1: you to their bodies. Now, the bodies or what we
12:18
Speaker 1: refer to in you know, forensic parlance, has being macerated.
12:23
Speaker 1: That means they're decomposed they've sustained, and particularly in this
12:27
Speaker 1: water borne environment, they sustained tremendous amount of trauma, probably
12:31
Speaker 1: post mortem. It's a hostile environment. So that bit of
12:35
Speaker 1: evidence has gone. And I gotta tell you, Nancy, one
12:37
Speaker 1: of the things that has always struck me. Now, I
12:41
Speaker 1: gotta tell you something, Joe Scott Morgan, if Lacy Peters
12:45
Speaker 1: in which I believe happened was manually strangled or suffocated,
12:51
Speaker 1: just for instance, with a pillow or a soft object.
12:54
Speaker 1: Then her body thrown into the cold waters of the
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Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay where it stayed there for weeks on end,
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Speaker 1: until she started to become not skeletonized, but skeleton like,
13:10
Speaker 1: to the point where ultimately her uterus decomposed and opened
13:17
Speaker 1: up and Connor floats out off her uterus. And that's
13:23
Speaker 1: what happened to her uterus protected by muscle, bone, skin.
13:30
Speaker 1: What do you think happened to strangle marks on her neck?
13:35
Speaker 1: And if there had been an asphyxiation such as with
13:38
Speaker 1: a pillow, there would be no marks except for a
13:41
Speaker 1: possible particular hemorrhage and the eyeball. Come on, get real, man,
13:46
Speaker 1: I'm trying to keep it as real as possible. Nancy
13:48
Speaker 1: doesn't sound like it. Well, I am Nancy with the
13:51
Speaker 1: end within a reasonable scientific certainty, And right now you're
13:55
Speaker 1: absent one of the biggest things that that is her head.
13:59
Speaker 1: And so her head is missing from her body, and
14:01
Speaker 1: there's been a lot of speculation about that. She's got
14:04
Speaker 1: parts of her limbs that were missing as well. There's
14:06
Speaker 1: been any number of people that have stated things like, well,
14:09
Speaker 1: you know, maybe she was dismembered before she went into
14:12
Speaker 1: the water. Well there's a high likelihood of that, but
14:16
Speaker 1: they don't have this, they don't have this, this evidence
14:20
Speaker 1: to fall back on. And so you know, look, you've
14:24
Speaker 1: hit it right on the head. If we're thinking about
14:28
Speaker 1: some kind of harm coming to her that would have
14:30
Speaker 1: brought about her death, you're gonna find it in the neck.
14:33
Speaker 1: You're gonna find it in the head with a blunt
14:35
Speaker 1: force injury or something such as this. But the body
14:37
Speaker 1: is too compromised, and you're absent a big piece of
14:40
Speaker 1: evidence here. That's what's left people's scratching there is her
14:44
Speaker 1: skin had floated off her body. Is that true? Morgan? Yes, yeah,
14:49
Speaker 1: as I've stated earlier, maceration. Yeah, well you said maceration.
14:53
Speaker 1: I said her skin dic imposed and floated off body.
15:00
Speaker 1: Karen Start, psychologist joining Mata Manhattan. Karen, I remember this
15:06
Speaker 1: blow by blow in the courtroom. What do you think
15:10
Speaker 1: it has Nancy? Yes? What do you think it has
15:13
Speaker 1: done to Lacy's mother, Sharon Roacha over all these years,
15:18
Speaker 1: not even having her daughter's skull, not having her daughter's skull,
15:22
Speaker 1: not having her grandson who would due to be born.
15:26
Speaker 1: She wrote a book about it. I mean, it was devastating,
15:29
Speaker 1: and this is something and you know you're a mother, Nancy,
15:32
Speaker 1: she will never ever get over the loss of her
15:36
Speaker 1: child and her grandchild. That's something that will always stay
15:41
Speaker 1: with her. And there's nothing you can do to really
15:45
Speaker 1: make that be better. It's a permanent hole in her heart.
15:49
Speaker 1: Bobby Chicon, what's the reality. You've been through so many investigations.
15:53
Speaker 1: So I'm going to circle back to right now. A
15:56
Speaker 1: criminal defense attorney who's actually one of the original mary
16:00
Speaker 1: of the Scott Peterson defense team, Bobby Chicone retrying a
16:05
Speaker 1: case is h e double l Let me tell you something.
16:10
Speaker 1: I had been in the DA's office. I just really graduated,
16:14
Speaker 1: I guess you could say, to complicated homicides and the DA,
16:20
Speaker 1: the elected district attorney called me down and told me
16:23
Speaker 1: he wanted me to retry a case. Immirely thought, WHOA,
16:27
Speaker 1: WHOA wait, one of my case has been reversed. No,
16:31
Speaker 1: it was a case that had been tried fifteen or
16:34
Speaker 1: so years before. I was either in undergrad or first
16:37
Speaker 1: year of law school when it was tried, much less
16:40
Speaker 1: when it happened, Bobby. I got into the evidence room.
16:45
Speaker 1: Guess what was left of the evidence. The evidence room
16:48
Speaker 1: had moved several times. I had one X ray and
16:54
Speaker 1: I had a hat that said kiss my bass. That
17:00
Speaker 1: was my physical Bobby gone. You know, crowds are more
17:05
Speaker 1: difficult enough, right in a couple of murder trials, the
17:08
Speaker 1: hardest to have, and then when you have to do
17:10
Speaker 1: it years later, this gate fifteen years later. I had
17:12
Speaker 1: a fugitive once that was on the run for eight years,
17:15
Speaker 1: and I had to trium after eight years. Luckily he
17:16
Speaker 1: played out at the last minute. But you're right, we
17:18
Speaker 1: have to go back into these old, dusty evidence bosses
17:21
Speaker 1: and revive everything. The one good thing about this particular
17:25
Speaker 1: case for the prostitution is that none of the reversible errors,
17:28
Speaker 1: if it is reversed on these errors, has to do
17:30
Speaker 1: with the evidence presented at trials. These are more like
17:32
Speaker 1: process errors. This was a jury selection error, or a
17:36
Speaker 1: juror may have been lying or may have been deceitful
17:39
Speaker 1: on their vadier when they were selected to the jury.
17:42
Speaker 1: So none of the errors cited by the court have
17:44
Speaker 1: to do with the evidence presented to the jury and
17:46
Speaker 1: what the jury considered. So this is, you know, that's
17:49
Speaker 1: at least of one consolation to the prostitutions that these
17:53
Speaker 1: errors do not relate to the evidence presented against Stop Peterson.
17:57
Speaker 1: They were more what a lay person might consenter pamanities,
18:00
Speaker 1: But obviously they would late to whether he was seen
18:02
Speaker 1: a fair trial, which is constitution of protective That's a
18:05
Speaker 1: very very good point, Bobby Chican, because the California Supreme
18:09
Speaker 1: Court was very clear that the evidence was overwhelming of
18:13
Speaker 1: Peterson's guilt. It was in fact a gerar error. Also,
18:20
Speaker 1: Laura Ratzian, high profile criminal defense attorney, and all started
18:24
Speaker 1: when the California Court said there was a handful of
18:28
Speaker 1: girars that it said they didn't believe in the death
18:30
Speaker 1: penalty on their questionnaire, a very extensive questionnaire, i might add,
18:35
Speaker 1: which you may have helped create that questionnaire. It's very
18:38
Speaker 1: extensive and well, many girars were questioned about saying they
18:44
Speaker 1: didn't believe in the death penalty. There were some jers
18:47
Speaker 1: I think it was thirteen in all that were not
18:50
Speaker 1: individually voided questioned on that issue, such as, you say
18:56
Speaker 1: you don't believe in it, but could you follow the
18:59
Speaker 1: law in the right circumstances. They were never really questioned.
19:02
Speaker 1: So that was the first problem right there. Then it
19:06
Speaker 1: came up about the girar that said she had never
19:09
Speaker 1: been a crime victim, when in fact, she had filed
19:12
Speaker 1: a t r O restraining order protective order against her
19:15
Speaker 1: boyfriend's ex girlfriend who was harassing her during her the
19:20
Speaker 1: Girars pregnancy, Laura in fact that not just a juror,
19:26
Speaker 1: the ex girlfriend of her boyfriend had done time, had
19:30
Speaker 1: also been convicted of a crime because of that, and
19:34
Speaker 1: she served time. So this was very important. It was
19:38
Speaker 1: material and it was something that should have been disclosed
19:43
Speaker 1: to the prosecution, to the defense and in the courtroom
19:46
Speaker 1: for all to hear. But this juror obviously decided not
19:51
Speaker 1: to do that. And the only thing that's pretty obvious
19:56
Speaker 1: to me, at least on its face, and it's evident
19:59
Speaker 1: that she wanted to on that jury at any cause,
20:01
Speaker 1: including lying and withholding of it as an important information
20:06
Speaker 1: from the defense team and the particution in the court.
20:10
Speaker 1: And it's I'm glad where where we are because Scott
20:14
Speaker 1: Peterson never got a fair trial. He deserved an impartial jury.
20:20
Speaker 1: He deserved a fair trial, just like any other defendant.
20:23
Speaker 1: We have a criminal justice system that's based on these
20:27
Speaker 1: very important rights, constitutional right, and regardless of who the
20:32
Speaker 1: person is, and who the defendant is, and what you
20:34
Speaker 1: believe and what your visceral reaction is, how much you
20:37
Speaker 1: hate this defendant, the one thing that every defendant is
20:40
Speaker 1: entitled to is a fair trial and an impartial jury,
20:44
Speaker 1: one thing that we all know Scott Peterson did not
20:47
Speaker 1: get an Hence we've got the overturning of the death
20:50
Speaker 1: penalty and potentially and hopefully the overturning of the conviction.
20:55
Speaker 1: I don't believe anyone is suggesting at any point, Laura
20:59
Speaker 1: Yure at CNN, that any defendant that exists in the
21:03
Speaker 1: US or anywhere does not deserve a fair trial. While
21:07
Speaker 1: I appreciate your sermon you just preached at me, I
21:11
Speaker 1: actually agree with you. I hate that you waited all
21:14
Speaker 1: that wasted all that energy. We all agree even Scott
21:18
Speaker 1: Peterson deserves a fair trial. Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Guys,
21:37
Speaker 1: we are talking about a very surprising twist and the
21:42
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson conviction. Take a listen to our friend Anita
21:46
Speaker 1: Vogel at Fox News. He was convicted and sentenced to
21:51
Speaker 1: die in two thousand and five, and now we're finding
21:53
Speaker 1: out some fifteen years later today the California Supreme Court
21:58
Speaker 1: has overturned the death Peterson's lawyers had contended all along
22:03
Speaker 1: he was not able to get a fair trial because
22:05
Speaker 1: of all the pre trial publicity with the case, but
22:08
Speaker 1: the court rejected that argument. Yet, it did say that
22:11
Speaker 1: the trial judge made a series of clear and significant
22:14
Speaker 1: errors in jury selection that undermined Peterson's right to impartial
22:19
Speaker 1: jury during the penalty phase, and that potential jurors were
22:23
Speaker 1: improperly dismissed from the jury pool after saying they personally
22:27
Speaker 1: disagreed with the death penalty, but that they would be
22:30
Speaker 1: willing to follow it and impose it. Peterson is now
22:34
Speaker 1: forty seven years old. He was convicted of first degree murder.
22:37
Speaker 1: From everything we understand, it seems that murder conviction will stand,
22:42
Speaker 1: but not the death penalty. Prosecutors will have the right
22:45
Speaker 1: to try again for a death penalty conviction. Although keep
22:48
Speaker 1: in mind there are more than seven hundred prisoners on
22:51
Speaker 1: California's death row and the last time anyone was put
22:54
Speaker 1: to death was January of two thousand and six. Alexa's
22:59
Speaker 1: Terrest shute with me I'm online dot Com investigative reporter.
23:02
Speaker 1: In fact, the state has announced that Stanislaus County will
23:05
Speaker 1: seek the death penalty against Scott Peterson, even with the
23:09
Speaker 1: California Supreme Court coming down on them regarding a jurr
23:13
Speaker 1: selection issue. Alexis Terrestcha. It may be worse than that
23:18
Speaker 1: for the state because now there is movement of foot
23:22
Speaker 1: for the entire conviction to be overturned, not just the
23:27
Speaker 1: death penalty phase the sentencing, but the conviction itself. Yep.
23:31
Speaker 1: This they have rule that the original that the case
23:36
Speaker 1: can go back to the county and that they can
23:39
Speaker 1: reconsider the actual conviction. So there is a chance that
23:43
Speaker 1: the conviction itself could be thrown out too. And back
23:47
Speaker 1: to Laura Ratzian, high profile criminal defense lawyer who was
23:50
Speaker 1: a member of Scott Peterson's original defense team. Why is
23:54
Speaker 1: the court now saying that Stanislas County should take another
23:59
Speaker 1: look at the con the guilty verdict itself, because one
24:03
Speaker 1: of the jurors, it was a juror number seven, did
24:09
Speaker 1: not disclose that she was a victim of a crime,
24:11
Speaker 1: not just a victim of any crime. She was pregnant
24:15
Speaker 1: four and a half months pregnant at the time, and
24:17
Speaker 1: was very very much in fear of the safety of
24:21
Speaker 1: her unborn child. The ex girlfriend of her boyfriend had
24:26
Speaker 1: been threatening. There are certain things that she was alleging
24:29
Speaker 1: that she was doing that it was so bad that
24:31
Speaker 1: she ended up getting a restraining order against her for
24:35
Speaker 1: at least three years, And in fact, that same woman
24:39
Speaker 1: was convicted of a crime and ended up serving time.
24:44
Speaker 1: So the idea that she kept that to herself was
24:47
Speaker 1: extremely highly prejudicial, especially in a case where he had
24:50
Speaker 1: a pregnant Lacey was gone missing and an unborn child
24:55
Speaker 1: of his gone missing, So it was crucial that exactly.
25:00
Speaker 1: So it's the same ground, it's the same allegation, the
25:04
Speaker 1: same argument that was made to get the death penalty
25:09
Speaker 1: sentence reversed. That's being used for the court to re
25:14
Speaker 1: examine whether the conviction itself should stand. Let's get back exactly,
25:21
Speaker 1: though not exactly. That's not the way I see it.
25:23
Speaker 1: The death penalty was reversed on different grounds, and that
25:27
Speaker 1: gives the court the judge made a huge mistake, and
25:30
Speaker 1: he basically disqualified anyone who said they do not believe
25:34
Speaker 1: in a death penalty, never bothered to allow the defense
25:38
Speaker 1: or the prosecutions. The questions on warder for thirteen for
25:43
Speaker 1: thirteen jurals out of hundreds of girars. Other girars were
25:48
Speaker 1: questioned on that very issue. Those thirteen girars were not.
25:53
Speaker 1: So we have that issue. Then we have the jurar
25:56
Speaker 1: issue of Gerar number seven, Shell Reese, who did not
26:00
Speaker 1: disclose she had a temporary restraining order taken out and
26:04
Speaker 1: there was a subsequent conviction of her boyfriend's ex girlfriend
26:09
Speaker 1: who was harassing her the JARAR during her pregnancy. Those
26:14
Speaker 1: are two claims. Is there a third claim? Laura, You're
26:19
Speaker 1: at sin So those two claims are in fact the
26:25
Speaker 1: same claims that are being argued and presented for the
26:31
Speaker 1: conviction itself to be reversed. Let's get back in touch
26:38
Speaker 1: with the facts at issue. Take a listen to ABC's
26:43
Speaker 1: twenty twenty Okay, yes, my fellow local all my daughter pregnant.
26:56
Speaker 1: You could have done for a walking apart from them,
26:58
Speaker 1: the god came home with difficul you sh the dog
27:01
Speaker 1: came back about your daughter. Right. I think I got
27:06
Speaker 1: your step daughter, thank you, thank you? Right? And you
27:12
Speaker 1: why black Asian Portuga? How are okay? She's twenty thick?
27:19
Speaker 1: What can you hear me? The halfman and come back
27:22
Speaker 1: that we don't know. We just got a call from
27:24
Speaker 1: her front in law getting left the point and there
27:26
Speaker 1: even play golf about a half hour ago, nowhere around.
27:32
Speaker 1: I think he went come up to dog walked it
27:34
Speaker 1: in me in that heart than conant, he said Patement. Yeah, okay,
27:43
Speaker 1: Well that was Lacy's stepdad, her mom, Sharon Roach's husband,
27:50
Speaker 1: Ron Gransky, calling nine one one. Let me understand something.
27:53
Speaker 1: Laura Euretzian Uh, the member of Peterson's original defense team.
27:58
Speaker 1: I believe I heard her father, Ron Gransky, state that
28:03
Speaker 1: Peterson had told him that he went golfing that morning
28:08
Speaker 1: at nine thirty and that when he returned, Lacy was
28:11
Speaker 1: not home. That's why her two. But the bottom line
28:15
Speaker 1: is it's not clear to me what he's talking about.
28:18
Speaker 1: If Peterson said it before the day before a couple
28:21
Speaker 1: days prior to that that he was finding ongoing. The
28:23
Speaker 1: other thing is that what really matters is what Peterson
28:26
Speaker 1: told law enforcement. Well, that's not questions true, Laura. What
28:30
Speaker 1: matters to say he has an inconsistent statement. He told
28:33
Speaker 1: not only Lacy's stepdad that morning he had gone golfing
28:37
Speaker 1: at nine thirty. He told somebody else that as well.
28:40
Speaker 1: The dad's not the only one. Then later he told
28:44
Speaker 1: cops a different story when he realized he had been
28:47
Speaker 1: spotted at the marina with his boat where Lacy went missing.
28:51
Speaker 1: You know what, Let's play that again so we can
28:54
Speaker 1: all be very clear at Jackie about what Peterson said
28:57
Speaker 1: he had been doing the morning his why disappeared. Okay,
29:02
Speaker 1: I he yes, my photow lowballing my daughter. I'm not
29:14
Speaker 1: sure about you, Alexis, but I heard Grant Sky state
29:18
Speaker 1: very clearly. My son in law called this morning said
29:22
Speaker 1: even playing golf this morning. Yep, that's what I heard too,
29:26
Speaker 1: And that's what he said. That's what Lake's dad told
29:28
Speaker 1: the police and are called Kobe operator. That is what
29:33
Speaker 1: his story was at first. Then there was evidence that
29:36
Speaker 1: he was in the marina, so then he changed his story. Also,
29:40
Speaker 1: can lamp back to the juror that everybody keeps saying
29:42
Speaker 1: has lied the person involved in the cake. Yeah, I
29:45
Speaker 1: wanted to taught you about that too. You know, I
29:48
Speaker 1: named her Strawberry Shortcake during the coverage because of her
29:51
Speaker 1: red hair, and she seemed like such a sweet person.
29:57
Speaker 1: I've often wondered she considered herself not to be a
30:03
Speaker 1: crime victim. I've wondered if that's why she answered that way, Alexis,
30:07
Speaker 1: you are exactly right, she said. When she was feeling
30:10
Speaker 1: she said, nothing was the same in these two cases.
30:13
Speaker 1: The girlfriend of her ex never threatened to kill me,
30:17
Speaker 1: never threatened to kill my unborn child, never threatened to
30:20
Speaker 1: beat me up, so she says, when I filled out
30:22
Speaker 1: my questionnaire, none of this came to mind because they
30:25
Speaker 1: weren't the same thing. And in fact, she dropped the
30:28
Speaker 1: restraining order against this woman. They're friends, they have stayed,
30:32
Speaker 1: they're friends, and the woman actually just spent a week
30:35
Speaker 1: in jail for vandalism. It's very different than spending years
30:39
Speaker 1: in jail for killing your wife and your unborn child.
30:43
Speaker 1: You know, Alexis, I'm glad you told me that. I
30:46
Speaker 1: did not realize that, but I know having been a
30:51
Speaker 1: crime victim myself. Very often crime victim's families don't realize
30:57
Speaker 1: they're a crime victim too. And I wondered all along,
31:01
Speaker 1: if You're our seven didn't really regard herself as a
31:06
Speaker 1: crime victim. She was never touched, punched, attacked. I always
31:11
Speaker 1: wonder when all this came up, if You're our seven
31:15
Speaker 1: did not consider herself a crime victim Crime Stories with
31:32
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace. Guys, we're talking about a sudden sudden change
31:38
Speaker 1: in the Scott Peterson conviction. And as you'll recall, Karen Start,
31:44
Speaker 1: a New York psychologist joining us from Manhattan at Karen
31:47
Speaker 1: Stark dot com. Karen, many times I've been asked over
31:52
Speaker 1: the years, you don't really think that's going to get
31:54
Speaker 1: reversed to you? And I would always say, you know what,
31:58
Speaker 1: you never know what an appella court is going to do.
32:02
Speaker 1: And there are people that firmly, especially after this, knew
32:06
Speaker 1: was that A and E did a special on Peterson, Jackie.
32:11
Speaker 1: A and E just came out with a quote special
32:13
Speaker 1: on Scott Peterson that suggests he is innocent. That is
32:19
Speaker 1: the furthest thing from the truth. Karen Stark, what do
32:25
Speaker 1: you make of the sudden decision by the California Supreme Court.
32:29
Speaker 1: And what this is doing to the crime victims left behind,
32:33
Speaker 1: that is the family of Lacy. It's devastating, Nancy, think
32:37
Speaker 1: about it. And so there was so much circumstantial evidence
32:41
Speaker 1: which counts. And this is the fact that he was
32:44
Speaker 1: able to lie one time, let alone that he told
32:48
Speaker 1: his mistress to remember that and be fry that his
32:52
Speaker 1: wife was dead, not that they were divorced, not that
32:55
Speaker 1: they were separated, but she was dead. And I think
32:59
Speaker 1: those life Karen. Karen, Oh my goodness, I feel like
33:02
Speaker 1: you and I are at the sushi bar having sushi
33:04
Speaker 1: right now that we used to do all the time
33:06
Speaker 1: before the twins came. Karen. He didn't just say my
33:10
Speaker 1: wife is dead. He said, this will be my first
33:15
Speaker 1: Christmas as a widower, my wife. I lost my wife,
33:20
Speaker 1: my first Christmas without her. And can you believe it.
33:23
Speaker 1: Either he's a killer or he's a clairvoyant, Karen, start
33:26
Speaker 1: because it turned out that was his first Christmas without
33:30
Speaker 1: his wife, and she was dead, and he seemed to
33:33
Speaker 1: predict that just a few days before she went missing.
33:37
Speaker 1: And Nancy, when I was listening when you had that
33:40
Speaker 1: repeated about her stepfather saying that Scott had called. He
33:45
Speaker 1: even said he went goffing around nine thirty. I think
33:49
Speaker 1: I heard that. Oh you know what, I hate replaying
33:52
Speaker 1: the same sound, but I want to hear it again too, Jackie,
33:55
Speaker 1: if you don't mind hearing the beginning of Ryan Grantsky,
33:58
Speaker 1: God Rest his soul. Nine one one call. Okay, yeah,
34:04
Speaker 1: my fellow low calling golf morning. My daughter has been
34:10
Speaker 1: nothing this morning. She pregnancy heard her dog for a
34:13
Speaker 1: waffle apart, the dog came home with police. The dog
34:18
Speaker 1: came back forgot your daughter. I think, okay, right there,
34:31
Speaker 1: What did you hear, Joe Scott Morgan, Yeah, I heard that,
34:35
Speaker 1: you know that his uh, he'd been playing golf and
34:38
Speaker 1: that he was absent. Uh, he's you know that she's
34:43
Speaker 1: absent from the sphere. I think the most most striking
34:46
Speaker 1: thing for me is this, uh, this thought that the
34:50
Speaker 1: dog comes back with the leash on uh, to me
34:54
Speaker 1: is quite striking. What is significant to me is that
34:57
Speaker 1: Scott Peterson tells Ron Grantsky that morning he had been
35:04
Speaker 1: playing golf. This wasn't two or three days before when
35:08
Speaker 1: he said I'm gonna play golf Christmas Eve morning. And
35:13
Speaker 1: I just gotta tell you something Alexis, trust Chuck, you're married,
35:17
Speaker 1: you have I still call him a baby. I know
35:19
Speaker 1: he's not a baby anymore. On Christmas and Christmas Eve,
35:24
Speaker 1: those are big family times. People come over, people have dinner,
35:29
Speaker 1: and that's exactly what Lacy was planning. Alexis, I've seen
35:33
Speaker 1: the inside of her home there on Cavina in Modesto.
35:36
Speaker 1: She hid it. It was a small home. She hid
35:40
Speaker 1: it decorated. I could tell she did it herself. It
35:43
Speaker 1: was beautiful and she had been working on the whole dinner,
35:48
Speaker 1: the holiday, the everything. There is no way in h
35:52
Speaker 1: double l he was gonna go out and go fishing
35:56
Speaker 1: for hours on end when she needed him at home
36:00
Speaker 1: to get ready for all the festivities. Exactly. I mean
36:02
Speaker 1: you can see you've seen in the pictures the dining
36:05
Speaker 1: room table was set already for the dinner that they
36:08
Speaker 1: were having the next day. She had planned everything meticulously.
36:11
Speaker 1: And she also was out with him the night before.
36:14
Speaker 1: On the twenty third, they went to her sister's place
36:19
Speaker 1: and Scott got a haircut, like everything was so normal
36:23
Speaker 1: and so Christmas Eve, and then she disappeared. Guys, I
36:29
Speaker 1: earlier was going to play from ABC twenty twenty because
36:33
Speaker 1: I want you to hear Lacy's mom, Sharon Roche. Here's
36:35
Speaker 1: another problem for trial Ron Gransky. Lacy's surrogate dad has
36:41
Speaker 1: passed away. So whatever Scott Peterson told him that morning
36:47
Speaker 1: has been preserved through a court reporter and through this
36:53
Speaker 1: nine one one call. That is an issue when you
36:56
Speaker 1: have to retry an old case. Witnesses pass away witness
37:00
Speaker 1: this movie can't find them, you can't find evidence. It's
37:02
Speaker 1: an uphelled task. Is this guy gonna walk free? Now?
37:07
Speaker 1: Take a listen to twenty twenty. This is Sharon Rocha speaking.
37:11
Speaker 1: The last time I saw Lacy, she and I were
37:13
Speaker 1: sitting inside my side and Scott was sitting on the
37:15
Speaker 1: floor and we were watching TV, and she said the
37:19
Speaker 1: baby was kicking, so I put my hand on her
37:20
Speaker 1: stomach because I'd never felt him kick. She leaned over
37:23
Speaker 1: to me and she said, Mom, she says Scott doesn't
37:25
Speaker 1: like to do this. She said, I'm asked him to
37:27
Speaker 1: feel my stomach when when the baby kicks, and he
37:31
Speaker 1: never wants to touch my stomach. That really really bothered me,
37:35
Speaker 1: And that was the last time I saw her. It
37:39
Speaker 1: seems as if Lacy had planned all along to have children,
37:42
Speaker 1: and that was understood going into it. But if you
37:48
Speaker 1: analyze their marriage, seems that when she got pregnant with Connor,
37:56
Speaker 1: things started going sideways. Boy, they really did. Least of
38:01
Speaker 1: all the sex relationship he started with an unassuming single woman,
38:06
Speaker 1: Amber Fry, not his first affair behind Lacey's back by far,
38:12
Speaker 1: but seemingly the one that was the most important, because
38:15
Speaker 1: it was during his sex affair with her that his
38:18
Speaker 1: wife goes missing found dead. Was as shore there at
38:23
Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay. To you, Bobby Chicom, former special agent
38:28
Speaker 1: FBI screenwriter Criminal Minds, how significant is that Peterson changed
38:33
Speaker 1: his alibi from golfing. He told more than one person
38:36
Speaker 1: that that day he had been out golfing that morning
38:39
Speaker 1: to fishing at San Francisco Bay. How significant is it
38:43
Speaker 1: that her body washes up from the waters where he's
38:47
Speaker 1: gone fishing, Bobby, hugely significant. I mean, they lived hours away.
38:52
Speaker 1: There was no reason for him to be there on
38:54
Speaker 1: that particular day, and he just happens to make the
38:57
Speaker 1: excuse or the story that he was there where his
39:00
Speaker 1: wife's body ultimately wound up. I spent four weeks searching
39:04
Speaker 1: that day for Lacy's head, her hands, and her feet
39:07
Speaker 1: which were missing from her body when she washed up,
39:09
Speaker 1: And I was involved with the detectives there, and you know,
39:12
Speaker 1: it was so puzzling on why he would pick that
39:15
Speaker 1: place of all places you could go to fish in
39:19
Speaker 1: that whole area, and you live hours away and you
39:22
Speaker 1: just buy a new boat. Why that area that's significant? Hey,
39:27
Speaker 1: I want you to tell me that one more time.
39:29
Speaker 1: Tell me about your involvement. My guide. The FBI Guide
39:32
Speaker 1: team was called up to Richmond Bay in the area
39:34
Speaker 1: of San Francisco Bay where Lacy's body. Lacy and Kinder
39:37
Speaker 1: were found because there were significant portions of her body missing,
39:41
Speaker 1: namely her head, her hands, and her feet. They had
39:44
Speaker 1: evidence to support a theory that said weights were tied
39:47
Speaker 1: around her neck, her wrists, and her ankles, and over
39:49
Speaker 1: the course of the months that she was in the water,
39:51
Speaker 1: the tide action worked on those loose joints in the wrists, ankle,
39:55
Speaker 1: the net and ultimately a storm blue through the night
39:57
Speaker 1: before they washed up on the shore and storm book
40:00
Speaker 1: are free from those from the bindings, in effect the
40:03
Speaker 1: weak points of the body and anatomically, and so we
40:06
Speaker 1: were charged with going down and finding the head, hand,
40:10
Speaker 1: and seat because there was evidence in scott stories offer
40:13
Speaker 1: that he had made homemade weights, and the theory was
40:16
Speaker 1: he had tied away to each hand, to each foot,
40:18
Speaker 1: and to the neck to keep us submerged, and which
40:21
Speaker 1: is something I had found in my work previous and previously,
40:24
Speaker 1: and so we were charged with going and finding of
40:27
Speaker 1: the remaining pieces of racy and respect for weeks doing it.
40:32
Speaker 1: Tell me and all the listeners about the San Francisco
40:38
Speaker 1: Bay guys, for those of you just joining us, the
40:42
Speaker 1: penalty phase and the Scott payous and murder conventions has
40:45
Speaker 1: been reversed. There's a chance the actual conviction itself may
40:50
Speaker 1: be reversed. But I just want it very clear. The
40:53
Speaker 1: reality is, when you have to retry the penalty phase,
40:58
Speaker 1: you might as well put on the entire case because
41:01
Speaker 1: you want your jury to hear it all. And that's
41:05
Speaker 1: what we're talking about right now, the fact that this
41:09
Speaker 1: case may have to be retried in soul to ye,
41:16
Speaker 1: Bobby Chico, could you describe those choppy waters of the
41:20
Speaker 1: San Francisco Bay where Lacy had been thrown. Yeah, it
41:24
Speaker 1: was a it was fairly shallow. It was only six
41:26
Speaker 1: and ten feet of water um and there's some evidence
41:29
Speaker 1: on the body when it was recovered that there at
41:31
Speaker 1: least partially at low tide, the body may have been
41:34
Speaker 1: out of parts of her body may have been out
41:35
Speaker 1: of the water, suggested to the sun um. And there
41:38
Speaker 1: was tidal action. So the tide rose and fell in
41:41
Speaker 1: that area, and so it was a common fishing ground.
41:44
Speaker 1: It was shallow. People did a lot of fishing there
41:46
Speaker 1: and she was in the water several months. And through
41:49
Speaker 1: that action of rising and falling with the tide um
41:53
Speaker 1: the theory that the the the wrists and ankles ultimately
41:57
Speaker 1: weakened from the weights and that storms broke them free.
42:02
Speaker 1: Because when m Lacy's undecom moost body, fortunate is the
42:05
Speaker 1: most bodies watched up. It was missing the hands, the seat,
42:07
Speaker 1: and the head um. And you know, we searched for
42:10
Speaker 1: a month with many many divers in the water. We
42:12
Speaker 1: would have lunch, often with Leaky's mom and members of
42:15
Speaker 1: a family um when we broke for lunch um and
42:18
Speaker 1: and you know, we were unfortunately unsuccessful in locating us.
42:22
Speaker 1: That is certainly something to keep you awake at night
42:26
Speaker 1: thinking of your child body out in the San Francisco
42:31
Speaker 1: Bay with all the fishing boats and the unborn baby
42:37
Speaker 1: Connor as well. We wait as justice unfalls. Yancy Grace
42:42
Speaker 1: rib Story signing off goodbye friend,