Latest / Culture Brief - Christian perspectives on the week's biggest news, sports & pop-culture stories / Interview w/ NASA flight controller on Artemis II, faith in space missions & moon landing conspiracies. Plus quick hits on Iran, Trump, and Rory | Ep. 65

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Interview w/ NASA flight controller on Artemis II, faith in space missions & moon landing conspiracies. Plus quick hits on Iran, Trump, and Rory | Ep. 65 · Culture Brief - Christian perspectives on the week's biggest news, sports & pop-culture stories

0:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye, I'm Connor Jones, I'm Mike Atama Sella, and this is Culture Brief, a Dinnison Foreign Podcast where we are navigating the constant stream of top stories and news, politics, sports, pop culture, and today science and tech, for sure, we'll explain more here in just a second, but Mike, I just got to say with Justin Bieber at the face of as the face of Coachella this year, Rory Mack Roy winning the master's, I think, I think it feels like 2014 all over again.
0:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It's two guys are at the front of culture again.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: yeah, these guys just won't go away.
0:32
[SPEAKER_00]: They're just a little bit older and a little bit grayer and they're still just as good or even better at their craft.
0:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big fan of Justin Bieber and I'm somewhat of a fan of Rory, but we could get into that later.
0:42
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, so we're going to be breaking down several things.
0:45
[SPEAKER_00]: The first thing we're going to talk about is Jady Vance's brutal weekend and everything happening with the negotiations with I-Ran, everything happening in the state of
0:53
[SPEAKER_00]: We'll give you a quick update on all of that and then we have a special guest on today.
0:58
[SPEAKER_00]: His name is Zach and he is a part of mission control at NASA and was a big part of what happened with the Artemis launch and we're going to be able to interview him and get really a bird's eye view and insider's view of everything that happened with that space mission and we're super excited to have him join us today and we'll then give you a few things to tune into.
1:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's jump into the brief.
1:20
[SPEAKER_00]: The brief.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
1:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Like you said, JD pants.
1:26
[SPEAKER_02]: Our vice president has had a brutal weekend and I'm going to lay out three reasons why.
1:29
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm going to do it pretty quickly because we got a lot to do in this episode.
1:32
[SPEAKER_02]: So number one, JD went to Hungary.
1:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He was sent and dispatched by Donald Trump to go to the nation of Hungary to support Donald Trump's great friend, Prime Minister Victor Orban there in Hungary.
1:42
[SPEAKER_02]: This is a nation of 10 million people, but Victor Orban has been somebody who Trump has aligned with since 2016.
1:48
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, he's been in power for a long time over in Hungary.
1:50
[SPEAKER_02]: They see a lot of the things in politics the same way they have.
1:53
[SPEAKER_02]: I'd I've used on immigration on Christianity and politics on the judiciary on fake media all of that.
2:01
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Trump wanted Victor Orban to win his elections this past weekend.
2:05
[SPEAKER_02]: So we sent Vance over last week to go support him, show that the U.S. is behind him.
2:09
[SPEAKER_02]: And Orban got absolutely obliterated in the election.
2:13
[SPEAKER_02]: And so it kind of just looks bad on it's not a great look for like, hey, we sent Vance over to support this and then he got just obliterated.
2:20
[SPEAKER_02]: The people really voted him out.
2:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Second, Vance was dispatched by Trump again, this past weekend, to Pakistan, to start negotiations with the Iranian side of everything with this war going on.
2:33
[SPEAKER_02]: Vance was the man that Trump picked.
2:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also the man that the Iranians requested because they have started to not one in the negotiate with Sea Woodcoff and Jared Kushner, who is typically who Trump would send over.
2:43
[SPEAKER_02]: So they requested to speak to Vance and to have him be the face of the American negotiations.
2:46
[SPEAKER_02]: This was a big moment for Vance.
2:48
[SPEAKER_02]: He had the opportunity to go and like secure a deal.
2:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's going to be a great political capital forum, but instead a deal was not reached at all and he ended up leaving Pakistan with nothing in hand.
2:58
[SPEAKER_02]: In fact, we're not even sure if the talks continued are going to continue.
3:02
[SPEAKER_02]: It's kind of unknown right now.
3:03
[SPEAKER_02]: So ultimately, Trump had to say, we're going to start a blockade.
3:08
[SPEAKER_02]: We started an naval blockade.
3:09
[SPEAKER_02]: The U.S. did over in the straight of Hormuz.
3:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Blockade in any maritime traffic entering or exiting Iranian ports.
3:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, so that's not entirely bands as fault.
3:18
[SPEAKER_02]: They're dealing with these hardline people in Iran.
3:22
[SPEAKER_02]: These leaders who have somehow survived to this point and they have their hardline stances and they're saying we're not going to give up our nuclear enrichment and that is what Trump is demanding.
3:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, but nonetheless, that's, that's
3:33
[SPEAKER_02]: for JD Vance like he had an opportunity it did not work out as well as obviously he or many people would have wanted we were all hoping we're still hoping and praying for a complete peace deal a total ceasefire not just this two week thing last week we said we weren't sure what was going to happen on Tuesday night let up to 8 p.m. right beforehand a deal was reached for a ceasefire for two weeks which was the best case scenario there I think and hopefully we can get a long
4:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, yeah, it's tough because I mean, advanced, I can almost guarantee you didn't want this word to begin with, right, uh, he, I mean, once he's out doing his own thing, not under Trump's shadow, you know, I'm sure there's going to be some books he's going to write and some things that he'll say in the future, but right now he's going to,
4:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Be a good soldier and trot on but I just know for I know for a fact just like on everything Vance started his political career with and just who he is.
4:29
[SPEAKER_00]: He did not want this Iran war from the beginning and but I mean, you know He's doing what he's told and he's fighting the good fight and ultimately I know that
4:37
[SPEAKER_00]: A new agreement has been sent over to Iran.
4:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Obviously, the US had multiple options.
4:43
[SPEAKER_00]: They're choosing the basically choking off Iran's economy to get them back to come, you know, get them to come back to the negotiating table, which personally I like better than sending boots on the ground.
4:56
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm just hoping that it yields a quicker deal so that there can be a deal that's reached before this two weeks cease fires up and there's like a week left.
5:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And so hopefully, prayerfully, like you said, something more final can come from this.
5:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think they're calling this the Islamabad Accords or something like that.
5:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Or, you know, so we'll see, we'll see what comes from it.
5:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I do hope your speech.
5:16
[SPEAKER_02]: You're right, JD has been secretly or not so secretly.
5:20
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess just more quietly opposed.
5:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, he was totally opposed and then the last year, because it, you know, Trump has kind of won be on some of this stuff.
5:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Even once he's been kind of quiet.
5:31
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, once the strike started, he kind of like took a back seat.
5:33
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, I don't really want to be associated with this.
5:35
[SPEAKER_02]: I am by by relation because I'm the vice president.
5:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I am.
5:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And Jay likes to talk.
5:41
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the fact that he just kind of hasn't been is interesting to me.
5:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, but that's also why the Iranians wanted him.
5:47
[SPEAKER_02]: They were like, this is the guy in the administration who does not want this war to continue on.
5:50
[SPEAKER_02]: We want to talk to him and find a way in this, right?
5:54
[SPEAKER_02]: The third thing they want to talk to Rubio, Rubio likes to lay the hammer.
5:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Rubio, they're scared of Rubio.
5:59
[SPEAKER_02]: I'll tell you that.
6:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh man.
6:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, for sure.
6:01
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing with JD Vance.
6:03
[SPEAKER_02]: He is Catholic.
6:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And so on his way home, he probably saw that Donald Trump posted this just big tirade against
6:10
[SPEAKER_02]: in the pope.
6:10
[SPEAKER_02]: And if you saw this post, you saw Trump just attack in attack and attack the pope, um, specifically on the true social post.
6:17
[SPEAKER_02]: He said, Pope Leo is wheat on crime, a terrible person for foreign policy.
6:22
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't want to pope.
6:22
[SPEAKER_02]: We think it's okay for I ran to have a nuclear weapon.
6:25
[SPEAKER_02]: He wasn't on any list to be pope.
6:27
[SPEAKER_02]: It was only put there by the church because he was an American.
6:30
[SPEAKER_02]: And they thought that would be the best way to deal with president Donald J. Trump.
6:33
[SPEAKER_02]: If I wasn't in the White House, Leo wouldn't be in the Vatican.
6:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, that's a very,
6:39
[SPEAKER_02]: Very personal selfish way to see the Pope's position I don't think Donald Trump is the reason that Pope Leo was selected as the Pope even though he is the first American Pope I don't think that was I mean, I wasn't in the room nobody was in the room during the conclave to select the next pope But I imagine that's not the case nonetheless They are arguing this didn't completely come out of nowhere Pope Leo has been very outspoken about
7:04
[SPEAKER_02]: the way we should treat immigrants, the way we should not cause wars, we should seek out peace.
7:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And so Trump has felt like these passive aggressive statements were made towards him, specifically, the Pope has clarified that if they were not towards anybody specifically.
7:15
[SPEAKER_02]: But who knows, this also probably didn't come out of nor because Trump was apparently watching the masters on Sunday night, which led directly into afterwards a 60 minutes interview with a bunch of cardinals who were basically speaking out against Trump's policies.
7:28
[SPEAKER_02]: So then about 30 minutes later, you got this long post attacking the Pope.
7:31
[SPEAKER_02]: So not completely out of nowhere.
7:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The other thing that Trump posted after that was a picture.
7:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And I want your thoughts here, Mike, on this of himself, dawning a robe and like a red thing around his shoulder.
7:46
[SPEAKER_02]: It kind of
7:49
[SPEAKER_02]: putting his hand on a man, a sick man's head and healing him, uh, some sort of figures in the background, demon-like situation, American flags in there.
7:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Basically, a lot of people took it as he's depicting himself as Jesus.
8:01
[SPEAKER_02]: This is right after the Pope post.
8:03
[SPEAKER_02]: He's, he's come out and he said, yeah, I did post that, but I thought I was, I saw it as me, just as a doctor, like I worked with the Red Cross, that's been his explanation.
8:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Micah, just initial thoughts on this AI to make your thoughts.
8:17
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, my thoughts are if he's depicting himself as Jesus, that is I would say sacrilegious.
8:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I can't know his full mind and heart Behind that post.
8:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know what he actually thought in the moment when he posted it Maybe he came up with this explanation afterwards and was like, oh, I made a mistake He knew he made a mistake because he deleted the post on Monday.
8:34
[SPEAKER_02]: He posted it Sunday night by Monday morning The post was deleted and gone because it caused quite an upper or a lot of Christians came out and like whoa whoa whoa
8:43
[SPEAKER_02]: That, that is too far.
8:46
[SPEAKER_02]: You have taken it way too far.
8:47
[SPEAKER_02]: You cannot depict yourself as Jesus.
8:50
[SPEAKER_02]: You are not Jesus.
8:51
[SPEAKER_02]: You're not even close.
8:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, I completely, I completely agree with you.
8:56
[SPEAKER_00]: And I think that almost just goes without saying just how crazy that post was.
9:04
[SPEAKER_00]: But I would even say beyond that.
9:05
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got to find a way to
9:10
[SPEAKER_00]: If he wants to keep his coalition together, he's got to figure some things out, right?
9:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Because all the anti-war people are mad at him.
9:18
[SPEAKER_00]: A large voting block of yours, uh, people with faith are frustrated with you.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, the amount of people I have seen on the right, who have never attacked Trump publicly, came out very strongly after that photo.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: And he did delete it.
9:35
[SPEAKER_00]: He doesn't delete things lightly, but, uh, yeah, man, that I don't didn't see one person just agreeing with that.
9:44
[SPEAKER_00]: That was pretty much resolute.
9:46
[SPEAKER_00]: He got slam for that one.
9:48
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, he he's causing up or among both sides, which is kind of crazy He caused such an uproar that the Iranian side side and with the Pope They're they're present over there and I ran post to this tree was like we stand with you polp Leo as the Bubbubba like which okay, he's got his own horizon Right, but like he saw an opportunity where Trump is looking weak.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It was like, I'm gonna.
10:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm gonna support the Pope in this Okay, um, we'll take that sure
10:13
[SPEAKER_02]: All right to the Catholic.
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Okay.
10:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Back to the Catholic post to your real fast.
10:16
[SPEAKER_02]: I just wanted to point out some of the free press put together.
10:18
[SPEAKER_02]: They had an article.
10:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It was actually came out last week.
10:20
[SPEAKER_02]: This is before the Pope post by Trump on Sunday.
10:23
[SPEAKER_02]: But the articles try to why the Vatican and the White House are on the outs and in it said, one might wonder why a government that has no apparent qualms about bombing foreign countries in capturing or killing tyrants would bother to try to court or demand the Vatican's favor.
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: The answer lies in something easy to overlook.
10:38
[SPEAKER_02]: The Catholic Church is perhaps the only remaining global institution perceived to carry genuine moral authority.
10:45
[SPEAKER_02]: The Holy See for all its imperfections and scandals remains a body whose credibility the American superpower seeks.
10:51
[SPEAKER_02]: They know that Leo's blessing or at least his silence would confer a kind of moral legitimacy that no amount of power can manufacture on its own.
11:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And it also points out in this article four ways that Catholicism is a dominant force in conservative politics.
11:05
[SPEAKER_02]: One of those is JD Man's and Secretary of State, Marco Rubio are both Catholic.
11:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Those are basically the two most very, very outstanding Donald Trump Catholics.
11:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Number two is the Supreme Court has a Catholic Supermajority.
11:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Number three is 53 million Americans identify as Catholic, which makes up 20% of the electorate on the list.
11:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Trump, number four here, Trump won the majority of that Catholic vote in 2024.
11:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So alienating the Pope, doing this Jesus type of picture, the Pope is specifically my alienating the Catholics.
11:35
[SPEAKER_02]: The Jesus picture alienating everybody in the Christian...
11:38
[SPEAKER_02]: like faith, right?
11:40
[SPEAKER_00]: So, and we can, there's a whole lot we could dive into on the depreciate you share in that bar because I, you know, we're not Catholic and so I, yeah, I think sometimes I can kind of overlook the Pope and the Catholic faith and just the the absolute impact and favor they have all over the world, just the
12:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, what were do my looking for?
12:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, I mean, they're beloved by many people.
12:07
[SPEAKER_02]: There's a billion Catholics on this influence influence influence.
12:11
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, we're here in the Bible Belt.
12:13
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, more Protestant Baptist, you know, around here, but there's still a large Catholic influence.
12:17
[SPEAKER_00]: But to me, you can just almost overlook how much the pope or the pope's words mean to so many people.
12:23
[SPEAKER_00]: So thank you for that explanation.
12:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, well, and JD Vance and Marco Rubio met the new Pope last year right after he was elected in the conclave.
12:30
[SPEAKER_02]: They went over to meet him at the Vatican.
12:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And so there is a relationship there with those two at least.
12:35
[SPEAKER_02]: And so, and there, you know, we'll see what happens in the next coming years.
12:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to give a quick spiritual perspective before we dive into our interview here in a minute.
12:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, man, when we're talking about the president, when we're talking about the Pope, I think it's important for us to remember that our true guiding light is neither one of those positions.
12:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It's also not an institution.
12:50
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not the church like that.
12:52
[SPEAKER_02]: The same is saying like, yeah, the Catholic church holds this weight of moral authority for a lot of people, but ultimately, an institution in a church, it could be Southern Baptist, it could be the Catholics, it could be any religion.
13:01
[SPEAKER_02]: They are not the true guiding light, right?
13:03
[SPEAKER_02]: It is our Lord and Savior Jesus Christ.
13:06
[SPEAKER_02]: John 15 says this is the message we have heard from Him and proclaim to you that God is light and in Him is no darkness at all.
13:14
[SPEAKER_02]: That is our guiding light, not an AI image, not a president, not a pope, a prime minister, nobody in power, it's Jesus.
13:21
[SPEAKER_02]: He's the woman.
13:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Everyone else is a fallen man, so we just have to remember that as we go into this upcoming week and you're seeing all the stuff about these posts and all this fighting and then fighting all that.
13:31
[SPEAKER_02]: and also consider to stick a step back and remember the gospel is more important than all of this.
13:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Amen.
13:39
[SPEAKER_02]: All right.
13:39
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to take us into check in real fast?
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
13:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's do check in.
13:46
[SPEAKER_00]: So, all right, Connor, uh, we just got done with Masters Weekend and what a beautiful and special weekend it was.
13:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Rory Mackle Roy.
13:56
[SPEAKER_00]: The man from Northern Ireland took home the green jacket again at the 2026 Masters, winning his second straight at Augusta and cementing a historic back-to-back run.
14:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Something only a few legends have ever done.
14:08
[SPEAKER_00]: I think it was the fourth one to ever do it.
14:10
[SPEAKER_00]: The last one to do it was tiger in the early 2000s.
14:12
[SPEAKER_00]: So wonderful company he's in.
14:14
[SPEAKER_00]: The weekend had a little bit of everything.
14:16
[SPEAKER_00]: He built an early lead.
14:17
[SPEAKER_00]: He was up six strokes going into the third day.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: That's a lot, y'all.
14:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it was hard to believe this was even going to be a competitive weekend of golf.
14:25
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, but he stumbled on Saturday and then he just kind of played well enough on Sunday to hold off any late charges finished 12 under a great score, but honestly the story wasn't just golf it was the it was the emotion right like at the end that you love that moment because at the masters.
14:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody there doesn't have phones.
14:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody's in the moment together because the master doesn't allow phones in right and so you see all these photos and all the fans are just Totally in the moment totally celebrating all of that stuff, right and so what what we saw here is we saw Roy celebrate with his wife with his daughter with his parents who sacrifice so much if you know that story so that he could get to where he is today.
15:05
[SPEAKER_00]: He got shook to have been a speech
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And he won four and a half million dollars.
15:11
[SPEAKER_00]: So good for you, Rory.
15:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Just a quick update here.
15:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Cameron Young and Justin Rose, Connor and I is picks to win.
15:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Tied at 10 under, they tied for third, at 10 under two strokes behind Rory.
15:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So what you could say is, is that Connor and I both made good picks and equally good picks.
15:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Cause we didn't necessarily pick the absolute front runners, like we were trying to be a little bit dark horse with our picks.
15:35
[SPEAKER_02]: and we brought up in we picked two people who've been in third two strokes behind I'm proud of this corner they both led at 1.2 they both had the chance to win it and they they kind of melted down and Rory did not and Rory came in and won it so good for Rory two masters in a row after a 10 year drought that is just impressive and good for him and even though he is debated as a favorite among golfers or not so favorite because of his emotions and the way he acts about some things nonetheless it's impressive
16:01
[SPEAKER_02]: All right, Michael, the NBA playoffs are this weekend as well.
16:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I guess they start this week, right, on what?
16:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, the plan is this week, suggest that's our tune in for today.
16:10
[SPEAKER_00]: The plan is this week, it's a plan tournament for the final seeds.
16:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And in this weekend is when it kicks off.
16:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You got a lot of great storylines in the NBA.
16:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Personally, I think some of the competitions, specifically the defense in the NBA, has taken quite the hit.
16:23
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of teams tanking, gambling scandals.
16:27
[SPEAKER_00]: the NBA is shrouded in some difficulty right now more than I would think any other league right now they got a lot of stuff to fix so I think I might just be saying this because my team isn't in the playoffs my team wasn't very good I'm excited about Cooper flag though so but at overall I just think there's less hype and excitement going into these playoffs from at least what I've what I've noticed but you know what it's playoffs for any sport has always great to watch so make sure to tune in
16:53
[SPEAKER_02]: All right guys, let's jump into our interview with Zach here and go talk about some space stuff.
16:57
[SPEAKER_02]: That's going to be fun.
16:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's do it Okay, we are here with Zach Huffaker a mission control specialist with the NASA program He just worked on the Artemis 2 mission so Micah you want to give us a quick breakdown on who Zach is and then Zach we're going to start tossing questions your wake as we are so curious about everything with the Artemis 2 mission
17:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Zach.
17:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'll just tell everybody who you are.
17:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, and then we'll let you go from there and then you can tell us more about you.
17:25
[SPEAKER_00]: So Zach is currently supporting NASA's Artemis program in the Johnson Space Center mission control center as an emergency environmental and consumables manager flight controller man, what a job title brother.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: And for Artemis 2, he served as the lead for the EECOM, the ECOM flight control team, prior to Artemis's Zach supported the International Space Station program as a flight controller at the Environmental Thermal and Consumable Console and Mission Control, which is responsible for similar types of systems that I'm responsible for on the Artemis side.
18:01
[SPEAKER_00]: He served that team in a number of technical leadership roles before
18:04
[SPEAKER_00]: officially transitioning to 100% Artemis support last March.
18:08
[SPEAKER_00]: That was probably pretty exciting, especially now that it's all come to fruition's act.
18:12
[SPEAKER_00]: Zack, even more importantly, is married to what he calls the best wife.
18:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I might have to argue with you on that one, but we'll see for almost eight years and he has three kiddos, two boys and one girl that are five and under.
18:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand the life that you're living my brother.
18:27
[SPEAKER_00]: It is a stressful one, but it is a beautiful one.
18:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Currently, they lead a community group in their home and they seek to make Jesus a priority with every conversation and with who they are.
18:42
[SPEAKER_00]: He also says a Bachelor of Science, Mechanical Engineering, Degree from John Brown University and a Master's of Business Administration from the University of Houston.
18:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Clear Lake.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, Zach.
18:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I only understood about half of what I read.
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So I'm excited to listen more today.
18:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, um, me too.
18:59
[SPEAKER_02]: And honestly, let's just start off and just say Zack, uh, you were part of this insane mission.
19:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And what an achievement you guys have pulled off the crew of Artemis, the entire flight control team, all the scientists and engineers that went behind this mission just got to say, man, it hats off to you guys.
19:13
[SPEAKER_02]: You all have pulled off something that I think has inspired our nation and brought a lot of people together and even the faith of the crew will dive into that in a little bit.
19:20
[SPEAKER_02]: But
19:21
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that if you could just from the get go here tell us a little bit about how you ended up at NASA was this always a dream of yours Did you always want to do this and then now that you're at NASA can you explain to us what this role is that you this EECOM role that you are doing at mission control
19:37
[SPEAKER_01]: Absolutely.
19:38
[SPEAKER_01]: First, I'll say a good morning and it's a pleasure to be with you guys.
19:41
[SPEAKER_01]: To all say, my journey at NASA actually starts the long time ago when I was a little kid.
19:48
[SPEAKER_01]: I definitely was obsessed with space exploration in general.
19:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And at one point, I got to where I was in the fourth grade and I got shown a website that showed you, hey, your birthday, Mike Corley to various interesting dates in history, and as it turned out, my birthday is actually July 20th, and that was the same day in 1969 that Neil Armstrong first set foot on the moon, which was a pretty big, a pretty big inspiration for me at that point,
20:21
[SPEAKER_01]: from there, of course, was certainly inspired by the Apollo program, you know, slues of documentaries from there and the Apollo 13 movie.
20:32
[SPEAKER_01]: Those types of things are really shaped and influenced my desire to get into a career that was similar to what those guys did back in the 60s where they sent guys to the moon.
20:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So fast forward a little bit here we are and we finally just sent folks to the moon for the first time in about 53 years.
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm clapping if you can't hear clapping.
20:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's exciting.
20:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, can you tell us exactly what it is you're doing at the desk?
21:02
[SPEAKER_02]: What is your role in Michigan troll?
21:05
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a great question.
21:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So E-Com is the console that I sit at, which stands for, as you guys said, there in the bio-emergency, environmental and consumables manager.
21:15
[SPEAKER_01]: So we'll start with the emergency piece, which is there are a couple different emergencies that we could encounter in space, one being fire inside the cabin, the other being
21:28
[SPEAKER_01]: a cabin lake, which means you're losing pressure inside the pressurized portion where the crew is located.
21:37
[SPEAKER_01]: So that right there is already a big chunk of a big chunk of conversation we can maybe get to it a little bit.
21:45
[SPEAKER_01]: Other things I'll say environmental
21:48
[SPEAKER_01]: That is a very generic way of saying there's a lot of dissimilar components in this vehicle.
21:55
[SPEAKER_01]: They all come together and work together to provide environmental control for the crew.
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have
22:04
[SPEAKER_01]: coolant loops that I think of like the radiator in your car that's providing cooling to the engine is something somewhere it's providing cooling to the spacecraft in a way that allows us to condition the atmosphere.
22:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We're scrubbing carbon dioxide from the atmosphere and all kinds of other potential has just gases that might off gas from plastics, things like that.
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: We are giving the crews supply for oxygen water and nitrogen.
22:34
[SPEAKER_01]: So those types of things all fit within the environmental and consumables realm that ECOM is responsible for in-mission control.
22:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, I've to talk about a responsibility like you're it sounds like you're kind of one of the people who's just deeply in charge of the safety of this crew, who is Hundreds of thousands of miles away.
22:55
[SPEAKER_02]: I've just amazed by it.
22:56
[SPEAKER_02]: That's a big responsibility.
22:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel the weight of that and how do you process the weight of that?
23:01
[SPEAKER_02]: Just faith play a role and how you think about the lives of these people on this capsule.
23:07
[SPEAKER_02]: Just what are you feeling in the day to day of a mission like that?
23:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, that's a really great question that I'm going to attempt to do my best to put words to that.
23:19
[SPEAKER_01]: What I will say is the stress, the immense stress and pressure that comes with doing our job right.
23:28
[SPEAKER_01]: I think is to a certain degree a very healthy thing because obviously, as I mentioned, a lot of those things are very critical functions that the crew has to have in order to survive while they're in space.
23:41
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think there's a healthy balance of making sure that you are mentally prepared for all sorts of things that could go wrong.
23:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You're mentally prepared to execute things as if they're going normally.
23:57
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're on console.
23:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's an enormous responsibility that comes with that.
24:02
[SPEAKER_01]: I would say from a spiritual perspective the way that I handle this is
24:08
[SPEAKER_01]: asking the Lord to just film me with the strength and the power of his spirit to bring to the forefront of my mind.
24:17
[SPEAKER_01]: Here's all the things that have studied here.
24:19
[SPEAKER_01]: All the experiences that I've gone through in training, in simulations, in working with the crew in their training.
24:25
[SPEAKER_01]: That's that, you know, in any given instant where that expertise in that technical knowledge is needed, I'm actually able through the spirit to go operate.
24:37
[SPEAKER_01]: At the best of my mental
24:38
[SPEAKER_01]: ability there.
24:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
24:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Zach, I love that.
24:41
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that man.
24:42
[SPEAKER_00]: You know what's interesting.
24:43
[SPEAKER_00]: I would please be humble with me for a moment here and just let me say to you, I think you're an extraordinary person who's doing extraordinary things, who's highly specialized, a part of something that will be in the history books forever or the history on the internet.
24:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't even know if they write history and books anymore.
25:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But the thing is,
25:03
[SPEAKER_00]: We're all people created in God's image, sinful, fallible, and need of a Savior.
25:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And so we can all relate to you.
25:11
[SPEAKER_00]: When we go into a stressful meeting, or when we have to be really prepared for something, we're all just people who have fallen short of the glory of God, who are then seeking to rise to the occasion.
25:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's exactly what you've done.
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: And so it should be inspiring for all of us to hear that.
25:27
[SPEAKER_00]: No matter what our Artemis mission is, we have a God who will equip us for it.
25:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And I just appreciate the perspective that you gave on that, my friend.
25:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, okay.
25:37
[SPEAKER_00]: I've got I've got a question because I think I kind of want to set the ground work for this.
25:43
[SPEAKER_00]: So why do you personally believe like just for the normal person who maybe was like, oh, I saw a few photos, the Artemis thing that was really cool.
25:53
[SPEAKER_00]: But like why do you believe space travel specifically is important, Zach, and for the average person listening, why should they care about what's happening in space?
26:04
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question, you know, I think a lot of folks haven't really thought about it more than just, you know, it was, you know, have we been to the moon, if we go to the moon, that's a pretty cool deal, but it haven't really thought further than that.
26:17
[SPEAKER_01]: I think there, I'm going to state this is a two-fold answer.
26:21
[SPEAKER_01]: So first, they're a ton of technological benefits that we get just as human beings from exploring in space, you know, since the 1960s when the space race was.
26:34
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, was in, uh, in its full vigor.
26:37
[SPEAKER_01]: I think we have learned so many things that have given us what today.
26:41
[SPEAKER_01]: We call GPS, um, you know, how many of us rely on that for just our normal life.
26:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And we don't even think about it, right?
26:49
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, random things like memory foam in your mattress.
26:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Uh, that, that type of technology was used originally to help, uh, cushion the crew, uh, in crash landing scenarios, um, again, way back in the earlier days of the space race.
27:04
[SPEAKER_01]: And so there's technical benefits.
27:06
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm, those are just a, I can't fool of, of, uh, potentially a poor example.
27:11
[SPEAKER_01]: So there's probably so many else out there that I'm not thinking of.
27:14
[SPEAKER_01]: But I would say that the other part of the answer is just the inspiration and the benefit that comes with.
27:21
[SPEAKER_01]: exploring beyond just Earth's boundaries.
27:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So it I'll go back to JFK's quote right this is going to this is really going to put the the best of our skills and abilities to the test by by doing these things.
27:38
[SPEAKER_01]: So it's really going to inspire a generation of folks to plug into the things that are difficult like math and like science.
27:43
[SPEAKER_01]: It pushes the knowledge of what we as human beings are actually able to comprehend and what we know today to be true as science that might change in the next 10 to 20 years of exploring the moon.
27:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Wow, love that.
27:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Thank you, Zach.
27:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's honestly, it's a good question, Mike, because I think it is something that a lot of Americans wonder.
28:02
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is an expensive program.
28:03
[SPEAKER_02]: This is risking lives, but it's also, I mean, it's so unique.
28:07
[SPEAKER_02]: There is a whole expanse out there that God, honestly, God created the heavens and the earth.
28:11
[SPEAKER_02]: And to look at the university, I'll big it isn't to know that we've only seen a tiny little sliver of it.
28:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Um, you know, we've only explored the smallest little sliver of it.
28:19
[SPEAKER_02]: It's so cool to know that we're trying to expand a little bit more.
28:21
[SPEAKER_02]: I want to talk about that now.
28:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Can you explain to us where this is all headed?
28:25
[SPEAKER_02]: What was the purpose of this mission?
28:27
[SPEAKER_02]: Artemis too specifically.
28:28
[SPEAKER_02]: We know that they looped around the moon.
28:30
[SPEAKER_02]: They lost communication for 40 minutes on the back side of the moon, which I want to ask you about that in a minute too.
28:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But this mission of was this like a test was this to determine, hey, we are going to be able to now go land people on the moon and what are the next steps?
28:42
[SPEAKER_02]: What are the next Artemis missions?
28:44
[SPEAKER_02]: What's coming down the line?
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: answer your questions.
28:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll take a step back from just the Artemis 2 mission for a second and zoom out to what the whole Artemis program is looking to do.
28:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So as of earlier this year, we got what I think it was the right the right call from our administrator on.
29:02
[SPEAKER_01]: setting the direction for the next two years at least for what the artist program looks like.
29:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So the goal of the Artemis program is to establish a permanent presence of human beings on the surface.
29:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So that way, again, like I mentioned, we continue to get that science.
29:16
[SPEAKER_01]: We continue to get the exploration benefits from being on the moon.
29:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And so Artemis too, where it fits into that, is a test mission to test out the Orion spacecraft.
29:30
[SPEAKER_01]: So the Orion spacecraft is, if it's a very, very top of that rocket that you guys saw launch a couple weeks ago, that's what the crew was residing in for the duration of the mission.
29:40
[SPEAKER_01]: And Orion is going to serve to take the crew members, take astronauts from Earth to the Moon and back.
29:48
[SPEAKER_01]: So this was a test mission to test that spacecraft capabilities to do so.
29:53
[SPEAKER_01]: So we were able to successfully do what we hadn't done since 1972, which is perform a trans lunar injection burn.
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: We call it a T.L.I.
30:01
[SPEAKER_01]: burn, which since the crew from Earth orbit,
30:04
[SPEAKER_01]: beyond Earth's gravity and it shoots them directly to the moon.
30:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So that was a big deal, and of course, we were relying heavily on physics for this mission.
30:13
[SPEAKER_01]: So we did what was called a free return trajectory mission.
30:16
[SPEAKER_01]: So very similar, you guys have probably heard that term thrown out in a Paul 13 movie if you've seen that.
30:22
[SPEAKER_01]: The funny folks are familiar with that.
30:23
[SPEAKER_01]: So this just allows the spacecraft to take advantage of the moon's gravity.
30:27
[SPEAKER_01]: Sling shot back around and then slowly gradually fall back to the earth.
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and during that period of time, we tested from the e-com system perspective, so many different, uh, so many different things, uh, and a good amount of it was successful.
30:43
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, how successful are we at allowing the crew to, um, uh, to exercise, can my system keep up with that, keep up with the carbon dioxide and the humidity generation rates, can those get scrub effectively, um, can we keep the crew sufficiently cool and it turns out,
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: As you guys may or may not have seen in a Fox interview, I think the crew reported they were pretty cold.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So all at to say the bigger picture is Artemis II is serving as a test mission of this vehicle and then beyond this we're going to go get ready to go land on the surface in 2020.
31:17
[SPEAKER_01]: 2020 is that going to be the Artemis III mission, Artemis IV or V?
31:22
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.
31:22
[SPEAKER_01]: So 2027 around this time next year, we're shooting to do a low worth, I say low worth orbit as some form of a earth orbit mission, we're going to go practice for rendezvousing and docking to one or both landers right now, SpaceX and Blue Origin both have their name in the ringer.
31:41
[SPEAKER_01]: So they're looking to, so they're looking to effectively compete for who gets that first surface mission.
31:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And so we might be rendezvousing and docking with either or both of those.
31:52
[SPEAKER_01]: And then Artemis 4 and 5 are going to be looking at 2028.
31:56
[SPEAKER_01]: So the goal is to get two missions that squeezed into 2028, both surface missions.
32:03
[SPEAKER_01]: And so right now, we're calling this the Boots 2028 campaign and then beyond that, the future of Artemis missions looks more like again, establishing, you know, those permanent habitat type hardware on the on the surface.
32:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Sounds kind of like what we're currently doing with the International Space Station where it's like it's almost got normal to just always have at for us even we're not in the program But it's like we just know there's always astronauts up at the space station whether they launch from America or another nation else from the world And it sounds like that's where this is headed with the moon like if it all goes right and well We're gonna have this base on the moon.
32:37
[SPEAKER_02]: We're just gonna be a consistent presence of humans on the moon Which is crazy to think about Am I understanding that correctly
32:44
[SPEAKER_01]: That's correct.
32:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So again, we're doing this in, I like how the NASA Administrator put it is back in the Apollo days.
32:52
[SPEAKER_01]: We launched several missions and quickly relatively quick pace within one another.
32:59
[SPEAKER_01]: So that way, we could hurry up and learn the goals and objectives that we needed to learn and apply those to the next mission forward so that we ultimately got to the surface.
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's what we did.
33:06
[SPEAKER_01]: The original, I will say that the original
33:11
[SPEAKER_01]: campaign looked very different from what it has now morphed into just in what seems like five seconds ago.
33:17
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where we're now looking to land crew members on the surface in 2021, not just once, but twice, which is pretty awesome.
33:26
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that
33:28
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, yeah, I think that the, anyway, we've got a very bright teacher ahead of us in terms of once we do those missions will now be able to build the technology to support those crew members staying on the surface for a much longer period of time just like we see with the International Space Station.
33:43
[SPEAKER_01]: That's great.
33:44
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that, Zach.
33:45
[SPEAKER_00]: Yes.
33:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
33:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So I wanted to ask a question.
33:50
[SPEAKER_00]: We played a clip of some of the astronauts sharing messages on Easter and one in particular, sharing a very gospel-centered message that was very encouraging.
34:02
[SPEAKER_00]: And we've just, you know, we talk about culture, a lot on this podcast and how how our faith plays into it, how we can navigate conversations, consume the news.
34:10
[SPEAKER_00]: This overall, though, has just been such good news, news that unites us.
34:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm a big sports guy, Zach, and so I think about how our country comes together when we're supporting our nation in various Olympics or World Cup, so whatever it might be.
34:24
[SPEAKER_00]: In the same way, and then even to a different degree, I saw something similar happen from this Artemis mission when it just seems like we're getting so much.
34:32
[SPEAKER_00]: bad news, but I just wanted to give that as the backdrop and then ask you specifically like it just seems like the world fell in love with this Artemis to crew during their time in space.
34:41
[SPEAKER_00]: How did you interact with them and are they just as awesome in person?
34:46
[SPEAKER_01]: As a great question, I will, I'll kind of go backwards here.
34:51
[SPEAKER_01]: So these crew members were some of the easiest folks to work with.
34:55
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got the privilege of not just working as a flight controller and mission control, but also as a crew instructor during their time training and learning the Orion spacecraft and how or are they going to interact with that vehicle during their time on the way to and from the moon.
35:09
[SPEAKER_01]: So I got to teach them several lessons about the e-comm subsystems.
35:15
[SPEAKER_01]: and beyond that, again, very easy to work with.
35:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You're talking about folks that are not just extremely competent, but also, you know, they're a part of our team.
35:29
[SPEAKER_01]: I think of, you know, you think of the,
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: The flight controllers that sit a mission control trying to just solve all the world's problems, you know, whatever there's problems to be solved with the mission.
35:39
[SPEAKER_01]: The crew members fit into that picture just as much as we do.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: They are trying to think through problems technically as well and we train them to do so.
35:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So that's just to give folks sort of a sneak peek at what we really do and how we interact with the crew members as flight controllers.
35:59
[SPEAKER_01]: And then from a face standpoint, you know, seeing these folks go beyond Earth orbit for the first time in our lifetimes, right?
36:09
[SPEAKER_01]: We haven't seen anything like that since my parents were little, which is crazy to think about, but from a face perspective, gosh, there's so much to break down here.
36:19
[SPEAKER_01]: I think for me, you know, I'll echo what Victor was saying there on Easter, which is, you know, you look at the arts.
36:26
[SPEAKER_01]: You look at these pictures of the earth and everybody that's ever lived or died with the exception of the Lord, Analyja, we think some sort of, we know it, Victor.
36:40
[SPEAKER_01]: looking at that really is mind-blowing.
36:42
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't see again so many astronauts have said this, you don't see boundaries between nation and nation.
36:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And what I personally see is
36:55
[SPEAKER_01]: There's so many people that just need the good news of Jesus Christ and the salvation that comes with his death and resurrection to say it explicitly, I think that's what I see when I when I look at those views of the earth and of course you see God's beauty and
37:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll second that and saying that I also see God's love for us.
37:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, you see the earth literally suspended on nothing like scripture says, and there's nothing around us guys, there's no reason, it almost looks like there's no reason that we should be enjoying life as good as we have it on this planet when you look at how uninviting and very dangerous
37:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, and so I think it goes to just show us how graceful and how loving the Lord actually is that he's he's giving us air to breathe water to drink
37:50
[SPEAKER_01]: food, he's given us beyond what we need.
37:55
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that makes that scripture to make a lot more sense when it says, God, God, the father knows you're every need.
38:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You don't even need to worry about anything.
38:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Jump.
38:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Why?
38:06
[SPEAKER_01]: This is gold, brother.
38:07
[SPEAKER_01]: This is gold.
38:08
[SPEAKER_01]: I love it.
38:09
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, it's really cool because you're right.
38:11
[SPEAKER_02]: Like God gave us this home of this planet, which is insane.
38:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Spaces like, in my opinion,
38:18
[SPEAKER_02]: it looks scary like you're not going to strap me on a rocket and send me out into it at least not willingly uh... if you seem to want to tell me a little bit more what that would look like uh... bus yeah i'm amazed by these people who have the courage and bravery to get on to a rocket launch up into space and i think i might have been victor glover who also said he's like you don't typically get an atheist on the top of a rocket because when that thing starts roaring under you you want to start praying uh... which is really cool
38:44
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just amazed by the fact that you guys have succeeded in this mission of keeping people alive.
38:48
[SPEAKER_02]: And this is not just true of this mission.
38:49
[SPEAKER_02]: This is true of many space missions, including specifically Apollo 13, where so many people work together to get those guys back to Earth alive, which is one of the greatest achievements I think in mankind.
39:01
[SPEAKER_02]: You guys are doing this and it's really impressive.
39:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I just want to give you, you know, accolades for that.
39:05
[SPEAKER_02]: Uh, and your job specifically is so crucial to keep in this crew safe and apparently warm too.
39:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that's really, that's really something that people don't think that much about, um, and you guys are doing great jobs.
39:15
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm curious, when you're looking at mission control,
39:18
[SPEAKER_02]: We're talking about the faith of the astronauts, and you've got a faith foundation yourself, is there?
39:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Is there a sense of faith and prayer in the mission control room on top of what the astronauts are doing?
39:28
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you guys communicating at all about like, hey, we got to trust the Lord here?
39:34
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question.
39:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Unfortunately not as much as I would like.
39:41
[SPEAKER_01]: That's something that to be honest has been put mostly out of the, I guess, out of the professional workplace today, which is, which is one of the sad things of, I think, our generation is.
39:53
[SPEAKER_01]: We have a lot of, a lot of non-believers in this workplace, and I'll say in my workplace specifically, and so something that I take very seriously is not just the, you know, the personal things that I'm trying to work on and ask the Lord to leave me in to help me continue to grow and get better as a leader, as a, as a, as a flight controller for instructor, all those things, but also,
40:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm like, God, I'm here to put your character on display and I'm here to make nothing of myself and make everything of you and take myself out of the picture, whatever accomplishments I could have in doing this job.
40:32
[SPEAKER_01]: None of that matters if it means that I can bring at least one person to you.
40:36
[SPEAKER_01]: And so I think that every day I'm humbled by it being reminded of that message of what
40:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you've been you've been sovereignly placed where you are for a reason, brother, and you have a truly unique purpose in gifting That before time even began God had ready for you and you're stepping into that faithfully and that's so clear is that I have a kind of have a fun question for you, maybe it's a fun question
41:06
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, man, let's say you're hanging out with some buddies.
41:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You maybe you just met some people, whatever it might be.
41:11
[SPEAKER_00]: I am sure you have heard a debate take place of, did we really go to the moon in the 60s, right?
41:17
[SPEAKER_00]: That's like the biggest conspiracy theory joke.
41:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, and I make these jokes because it seems like every other weekend, somebody's trying to convince me we didn't go to the moon in the 60s.
41:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm like, I'm pretty sure we did, guys.
41:29
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, but I don't know what I'm talking about.
41:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Has there ever been a moment where somebody was like in a debate around you and you were like, um, hello, and then you stepped in and just like destroyed him?
41:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
41:40
[SPEAKER_00]: What do you say when people, uh, when people make that argument, has that argument made in front of you without them knowing what your job is?
41:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, so, I have actually seen some folks, you know, whatever I tell folks that I work at NASA and I work at Mission Control.
41:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, I have come and you know, just lean into it.
41:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Oh, yeah.
41:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I've had just the, you know, uh, the experience with certain folks now I'll say most folks are when they get around someone like myself who actually understands the technology, the math and science behind what we do, um, you know, for the most part, a lot of those
42:17
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll say, I'll say from a humble perspective, a lot of folks that just don't understand enough about the path and science that we're into and the technology that went into taking us to the moon in the sixties.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, especially when you hear what you hear the kinds of conversations that were recorded on tape, the loop conversations of our flight controllers, into 60s, there are a ton of technical details.
42:50
[SPEAKER_01]: that you would really, it would be very difficult to just make a lot of that stuff out.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: Sure.
42:55
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of that you have not only slues and slues of data from the real spacecraft, taking these crews to the moon, but something I also like to bring up is, hey, the Apollo 1 Fire, three of our astronauts gave their lives for the purpose of trying to send someone to the surface of the moon.
43:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think that we should take something like that lightly.
43:17
[SPEAKER_01]: there are a lot of children and wives that had to continue to move on without their husbands, without their dads as a result of that sacrifice.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that, you know, it can be the cool thing to, you know, to jump on board conspiracy bandwagon's like, I don't know if we landed on the moon, there's some weird things there, but I think that there are a lot of other sobering facts with their that reality might very easily be able to dispel those conspiracies with some
43:47
[SPEAKER_00]: very nicely put Zach.
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
43:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You are very kind to the naysayers out there.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: I love it.
43:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, one thing.
43:54
[SPEAKER_02]: I told Mike is like, even when we have these sharp images now in 2026 as opposed to the 60s and 70s when we were getting images from the moon of earth and all that.
44:03
[SPEAKER_02]: people are still questioning and I'm like okay it doesn't matter I mean we're getting images like I don't know if the if this if the capsule has and Wi-Fi on it, but they're like sending back images of the astronauts looking at the little hatch and out at the moon and at earth I'm just amazed by it and that one beautiful picture where you can literally see the aroras around crazy are planet it's just amazing um they took incredible images I'm sure there's more to come and I'm just amazed by this crew and by what you all have pulled off here uh something else I wanted to ask about
44:31
[SPEAKER_02]: We've talked about the moon, the missions headed towards the idea of building a base there or some sort of like institution where we can continue to send humans.
44:39
[SPEAKER_02]: But you know, if you follow Elon Musk on X, he consistently talks about going to Mars.
44:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And I'm just curious if that is still a plan.
44:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that a SpaceX mission?
44:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Is that a NASA mission?
44:50
[SPEAKER_02]: Do are we thinking we're going to get humans to Mars here in the next decade or so?
44:54
[SPEAKER_02]: Or maybe a little bit longer than that?
44:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Is the moon going to be a launching pad for that to help out with getting to Mars?
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: That's a great question and I kind of let you guys hang in there on what is the big picture of the Artemis program.
45:06
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, that's actually the ultimate goal for the Artemis program is to sort of build up the technology on the moon, specifically the lunar surface so that we can go send people
45:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, again, that technology has been demonstrated previously so that we can have confidence that we can take that next really big step to send humans to Mars.
45:31
[SPEAKER_01]: There's this pretty decent technology gap that we have got to go learn.
45:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Um, there are a lot of things with respect to spacesuits and protecting crew from radiation long term that we need to learn.
45:43
[SPEAKER_01]: There are things of the, again, I talked about the environmental piece being very generic.
45:49
[SPEAKER_01]: One of the things that we do on the International Space Station is we actually reclaim the cruise year in and we process that into
46:00
[SPEAKER_01]: thinking drinking water and then we take that clean drinking water uh... whatever might be left from the crew drinking it uh... and we turn that into oxygen so we've got and we call that regenerative yeah so uh... guest today's coffee is also tomorrow's coffee so
46:19
[SPEAKER_00]: uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh... uh...
46:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, Zach, we're going to have you back on here in 15 or 20 years when you're a part of the mission control team for the Mars launch.
46:41
[SPEAKER_02]: We'll have some great hairs, but we'll be talking about this criminal mission.
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: I wanted to also ask when you're in the mission control room.
46:52
[SPEAKER_02]: Do you feel the weight of that room the history that's there these and I don't know if it's the same room today as it was back I know you told me one of the one of the consoles you worked on was a part of the original Apollo missions Like I don't know if that's the desk or the computers that are there But do you feel the weight of that room like wow there's a they're the eyeballs of the nation and of the world are honest this crew is dependent upon us Movies have depicted this room.
47:15
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean you're standing in a room that has been seen in so many films documentaries
47:22
[SPEAKER_01]: I'll answer the easy part of that question which is so the room that we actually operate these Artemis missions is an old shuttle flight control room and it's actually the same room that the where the Columbia accident took place back almost 20 years ago.
47:41
[SPEAKER_01]: The another fun tip is where the international space station is operated today by that flight control team that is a one of the historic Apollo and shuttle flight control rooms again I'm no longer we're no longer supporting We're not supporting Artemis operations in there and then there's the historic Apollo
48:00
[SPEAKER_01]: control room that is upstairs above both of those those rooms.
48:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And it is still preserved today.
48:07
[SPEAKER_01]: You can actually go see it and take tours with tons of folks go see tours of it every day.
48:12
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's restored and you can actually see that data at those consoles video footage on the front, the front screens just like just like we were landing on the moon back in 1969.
48:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'll jump into the difficult part of your question there, Connor, which is, do I feel the weight?
48:31
[SPEAKER_01]: I feel it immensely every single time I walk into that room.
48:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I think what it means to sit in the flight controller's seat means you are responsible for the life and or what could be fatality of the crew.
48:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The decisions that you make, the technical expertise that you carry,
48:53
[SPEAKER_01]: And all of that, the crew is depending on and not only that, something actually challenged my team before the Artemis 2 mission with was, I want everybody, I want everybody on my team to think about the crew's families.
49:06
[SPEAKER_01]: They are the ultimate, not only just the crew, but the crew's families.
49:10
[SPEAKER_01]: Are the ultimate stakeholders to us doing our job correctly with thoroughness, technical competence, toughness, all the things that we say are the values that we hold as flight controllers, vigilance, responsibility, all of those things that could go on.
49:31
[SPEAKER_01]: So I feel the weight that all of that needs to be embodied with
49:35
[SPEAKER_01]: all the calls that I make on the loot with the conversations that I'm having with my teammates across the room, you know, we operate our system, right?
49:46
[SPEAKER_01]: The e-com system, but e-com is a part of a integrated spacecraft, right?
49:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So we have to work with our guidance and navigation friends, or sometimes our flight dynamics officer folks.
49:57
[SPEAKER_01]: certainly our power folks we we give them a hard time our we've got lots of heaters they condition the vehicle that draw lots of power so we've got to work with those folks but that to say we all come together to share that responsibility of taking care of the crew and taking care of this spacecraft.
50:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, yeah, speaking of Columbia.
50:18
[SPEAKER_02]: I just I that was obviously the last accident to happen or a very serious accident to have I've ever watching that one for my backyard I was age six and Columbia is flying over we were out to see fly over our backyard and then it broke apart and that was really sad and so
50:32
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand what you're saying.
50:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't feel it because I'm not in that room like you are.
50:36
[SPEAKER_02]: You have a heavy responsibility.
50:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm amazed by what you guys are doing.
50:41
[SPEAKER_02]: The responsibility you feel and I know you have protocols for when something goes wrong.
50:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Just the way to that room.
50:47
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for answering that.
50:49
[SPEAKER_02]: There is so much to it.
50:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, you know, and I, I think my job is stressful.
50:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Exactly.
50:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes my goodness.
50:56
[SPEAKER_00]: But again, like, I mean, you touched on this before.
50:59
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay that it is.
51:02
[SPEAKER_00]: It should be, you know, like, sometimes in our lives, we get stressed out, we get anxious.
51:06
[SPEAKER_00]: you're going to take that to God.
51:08
[SPEAKER_00]: But there are moments, there are pockets of time where that stress and anxiety means only one thing and one thing only.
51:16
[SPEAKER_00]: You really care.
51:17
[SPEAKER_00]: You really understand in the way to the moment of the situation and it keeps you heightened and it keeps you focused.
51:23
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, yeah, I mean, I really just, I appreciate the human perspective of all of this, the faith, perspective of all of this, of in so many ways we can relate to you when there's also a lot of ways we can't.
51:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And so, I really appreciate that narrative.
51:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I've just got one more question for you myself, and this is just another fun question as we start to wrap up today.
51:44
[SPEAKER_00]: What is your favorite space movies act?
51:47
[SPEAKER_00]: And what movie most accurately depicts
51:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, this is a good question.
51:58
[SPEAKER_01]: So I'm going to cheat and throw two movies at you.
52:01
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think my favorite space movie just from an inspiration perspective was interstellar.
52:12
[SPEAKER_01]: I think it just gets folks really outside of the norm of what we typically have what what you're typically used to with NASA missions.
52:21
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it shows
52:23
[SPEAKER_01]: Really, it puts to visual what, you know, Einstein type science really looks like in the universe, you know, there's a lot of stuff out there, their black holes are out there, you know, and in theory worm holes are possible those types of things are possible and so they can you combine that with the fact that, um, Wow.
52:46
[SPEAKER_01]: All of these amazing things are possible in the universe, and actually we have observations of, for example, black holes being real, it really,
52:58
[SPEAKER_01]: I think widens and deepens your view of how amazing and powerful cod is that creation is so vast.
53:07
[SPEAKER_01]: The, I think the movie that best depicts what real-time operations looks like from mission control and in spaces the Apollo 13 movie hands down.
53:16
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think there's any question there.
53:19
[SPEAKER_01]: So much so that actually a good amount of the script.
53:23
[SPEAKER_01]: is based on some of the real loop conversations, right?
53:27
[SPEAKER_01]: You can go listen to some of the real public loop recorded conversations and go, oh, that sounds very similar to what was in the movie.
53:36
[SPEAKER_01]: Actually, it was just watching some of the real, some of the real tapes from that, the front of the Apollo 13 mission with my wife last night, because again, I'm a nerd.
53:44
[SPEAKER_01]: And like I said, but yeah, those are the funny answers to that question.
53:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Now the now that Artemis too is back home you're like, oh, we can watch the Apollo 13 tapes again.
53:53
[SPEAKER_01]: All right.
53:54
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah.
53:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Man, Apollo 13 both those movies are great.
53:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Shout out to Chris for Nolan for just developing like this futuristic style space movie and then Apollo 13.
54:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
54:03
[SPEAKER_02]: Kevin Bacon Gary Sonny's Tom Hanks.
54:05
[SPEAKER_02]: That whole crew.
54:06
[SPEAKER_02]: That movie doesn't even feel like it's from the 90s.
54:08
[SPEAKER_02]: It feels so well done and modern and they just depict that that crew.
54:13
[SPEAKER_02]: So well, we talked about Jim level last week and the message he left for the Artemis
54:17
[SPEAKER_02]: as this like torch passing and even the message that Apollo 8 had for the earth going into Genesis was really cool.
54:26
[SPEAKER_02]: So many cool things that came out of this mission out of all of these missions leading up to Artemis and hopefully future moon landings and even Mars landings and who knows what be on that I guess we'll see.
54:35
[SPEAKER_02]: But Zach, you guys have pulled off an incredible mission.
54:38
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm sure you feel the relief now that the crew has splashed down and you're gonna start working I assume on Artemis three very soon But just take just take a breath because you guys have done it.
54:48
[SPEAKER_02]: It's just incredible What you all have pulled off here.
54:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm just I'm gonna always give accolades to people who pull off these insane scientific achievements and showed bravery and courage and
54:58
[SPEAKER_02]: dealt with the stress and you've done that so well so and thank you for taking the time to talk to us.
55:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean we're just blessed by this conversation.
55:03
[SPEAKER_02]: We hope the audiences as well you share in your knowledge and expertise and insights from a very unique perspective that most of us don't ever get to see but you do and God's place you in that place for a reason and so we're grateful for your time here.
55:16
[SPEAKER_01]: Well, guys, I, what an honor to be with you all this morning.
55:20
[SPEAKER_01]: Again, I think, you know, if I was to leave you guys with anything as say that, you know, the Lord has shown me that if I'm faithful with a little, he interests you with more.
55:29
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that is true, day in and day out, you know.
55:34
[SPEAKER_01]: about 16 years ago, I was just working at Humble Golf Course, you know, cleaning cleaning cards and cleaning golf clubs and always knowing that this was the dream that got it put in my heart.
55:47
[SPEAKER_01]: But being faithful to
55:50
[SPEAKER_01]: be a better version of yourself every day.
55:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Continue to actually set your side on what your goals actually are.
55:56
[SPEAKER_01]: Really present to God, what are you calling me to do?
55:59
[SPEAKER_01]: I think that's that's that's where that's where all of this has led for me.
56:05
[SPEAKER_01]: And certainly I think that's true for everybody.
56:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you, Zach.
56:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for that.
56:10
[SPEAKER_00]: Again, very, very relatable and I don't know, man, I just think it's wonderful that it just feels like, and this isn't necessarily a bad thing.
56:19
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes dreams are meant to be dreams when you're a kid.
56:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Sometimes you stick with it and what you want it to be and what you want it to do in elementary school comes true for you.
56:30
[SPEAKER_00]: And that's one of the coolest parts of your story, my friend, just your, your origin
56:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I love that you chased your dreams and you never gave up on it, and now here we are.
56:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And then who knows where God's going to take you in the future.
56:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So Zach, thank you for joining us today.
56:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you for your faithfulness.
56:51
[SPEAKER_00]: It is it's just so clear your love for Jesus, your passion, your drive, and we all gain something from this today.
56:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank you.
56:59
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you guys.
57:00
[SPEAKER_02]: Thank you for joining us on this week's episode of Culture Brief, a Denison Form podcast.
57:04
[SPEAKER_02]: All articles and videos mentioned will be linked in the show notes if you want to help us reach more believers with truth in today's chaotic culture.
57:10
[SPEAKER_02]: Please share this podcast around and leave a 5 star rating interview and we will see you next Thursday.
57:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Bye.