Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / BONUS: LIVE from the Prefontaine Classic 2023 (Diamond League Finals)-Dennis Mitchell

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BONUS: LIVE from the Prefontaine Classic 2023 (Diamond League Finals)-Dennis Mitchell · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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  We're live after technical difficulties.
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  We don't stop just like the athletes.
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  We don't stop either. Welcome to the Gill Athletics
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  Track and Field Connections live from Pre Fontaine Classic 2023.
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  This meet is always special and it's even more special this year
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  because it's the Diamond League final.
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  So we've got things going on that we ain't never going to
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  have seen here in Hayward Hill. So it's going to be an awesome
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  time and I'm glad you're joining us here on YouTube Live.
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  I've got a couple of guests coming in.
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  I think we're going to have a great time.
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  We're just going to kind of just chop it up, find out what makes
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  these coaches tick in, the value that they're bringing to the
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  athletes on the track and maybe we'll even get some predictions
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  or to depend on how comfortable we have here.
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  So hey, let's start with our first guest.
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  This is going to be great. I've got Joe.
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  I love this last name. Del Chadi.
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  Dole Chetty. Yeah.
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  See, it's my Italians, not that good.
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  My English isn't even good either, man.
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  So it was good that I got there. Joe is with Exigen and with
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  Lela. Yep, Perfect.
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  And we're going to talk about that here in a second.
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  But Joe, to get us started, give us kind of a 30,000 foot level
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  of your background and coaching track and field.
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  And I know we'll talk about some other sports that you've been
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  involved in as well. First, thanks for having me,
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  Jeff. It's an honor.
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  It's great to be out here. We're excited to be back here
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  for, like you said, this finals of the Diamond League.
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  Weather is good, Everything looks good.
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  So it's beautiful. Yeah, it's great.
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  And I just flew in from Malaysia, the other side of the
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  world where I live in. And you know that going from the
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  backwards part, I spent the last 20 years working with high
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  performance programs throughout the Malay.
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  It's throughout the Southeast Asia, Asia region.
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  Australia, New Zealand as well. Before that, mostly those were
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  Olympic programs. I actually came out to Malaysia,
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  Singapore for the Olympics, Sydney, Sydney Olympics in 2000.
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  Before that, being a Canadian, I was based out of the West Coast
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  of Canada, worked with the Grizzlies in the NBA.
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  I did work with the Canucks and a lot of the Team Canada
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  programs and out at UBC. So I've been coaching for about.
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  35 years and I started in the strength and conditioning field.
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  I was going to ask, how did you get into it?
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  Yeah. I started with what they called
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  S&C moved into sort of high performance, which is managing
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  and overseeing the sports science sort of support services
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  for high performance programs. And now it's moved into a whole
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  new level of very specific and elite consulting with the
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  company. I have to imagine I'm going to
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  ask if you had, did you do track as an athlete?
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  But you're from Canada, so I imagine everybody has to play
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  hockey. You all, everybody starts out
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  playing hockey. I did as well, but I was a quick
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  guy. So my goal, I was, you know, one
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  of the fastest kids in my city. I played football.
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  My goal was play football. We didn't.
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  And you can remember this is the 80s, early 80s.
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  And so running track meant you showed up on the meet day and
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  you ran something and you know we were the 100 meter guys.
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  So there was me and a couple of people that were fast and we ran
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  our hundred and our tennis shoes or whatever we had on.
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  But The funny thing, I do remember this little funny
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  story. At our city meet, one year, 1718
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  years old, we showed up and there was this guy there.
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  He was about a six foot 5. Black guy that we and and my
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  hometown in northern Canada is not a very mixed community and
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  we were all watching this guy run and this guy there was there
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  was something different. He was 17.
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  Two. He comes down.
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  He runs 100 meter in 10.4 seconds.
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  This is, I don't know 198483. That guy turned out to be Mike
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  Smith, who won the World Championships for the decathlon
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  and was one of Canada's most. Famous, famous, the Catholics in
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  history and he was growing up in some small town Northern
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  Ontario. So that actually is my first
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  real track experience. He was trained as a track
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  athlete, he was wearing tights and he had spikes on.
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  We didn't even know what those were.
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  So I remember though seeing him and I thought, I want to know
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  more about why he's fast. Isn't it amazing when you see an
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  athlete you know you've seen fast?
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  Like you said, you guys were the fast ones and probably were the
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  fastest on your team, things like.
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  That, yeah, we're all like 11 second guys.
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  You know when it's gonna track fast.
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  Yeah, yeah, it's a different beast.
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  Yeah, absolutely. What drew you to track and
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  field, specifically in regards to your coaching and your S&C
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  background? Just.
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  Because of love, of speed. So going back to that, so seeing
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  that Mike Smith for me wasn't just another guy saying a cool
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  athlete. As a young kid, being fast, I
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  was fascinated with speed, but more obsessed.
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  And even when I built the company and it was, it was
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  around training athletes, preparing for the Olympics and
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  the focus on speed. And as we were talking a minute
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  ago with some of the coaches, you know, speed is the core
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  elements that every sport is looking for.
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  And so in track it's running speed.
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  In in the field events, it's it's take off speed or throwing
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  speed, but it's still speed. And and I and I joke about it.
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  In 35 years, I've never once had a coach walk into my room and
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  say Joe. We just got to get slower.
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  And so if you're not into the game of speed, and that might be
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  movement speed, execution speed, whatever it is and you're not in
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  the game of performance, how do you see, you know, I come from a
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  track specific background, played college, I'm sorry, high
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  school football. So I understand other sports and
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  certainly in every, every, I imagine every other sport.
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  Maybe not golf, I don't know, but.
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  Certainly club head speed, yeah, okay, that's true.
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  But certainly the footballs, the soccers, baseballs, basketballs
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  that the faster you are the better you can be.
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  Not necessarily you are, but the better you can be.
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  You can obviously, for a defensive back or a receiver,
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  for football, you can make more mistakes, cuz you're faster, you
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  can make it more, but there is a difference.
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  I believe you're gonna tell me in how you're training a
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  footballer versus how you're trained to a track.
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  Yeah, it's funny if this is such a debate right now for any
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  coaches out there on Twitter, which I try to stay off of,
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  that's where I live, so. It's just because there's this
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  conversation right now and I've seen all the big track
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  consortiums that are out there, training, sport, are talking
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  about do footballers need to be Sprint fast or do they need to
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  be able to be fast for football? And the answer to that question
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  I keep saying. It's the wrong question.
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  We we need to see what track athletes are doing to become
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  fast, but they're running in a different pattern, in a
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  different process than a a basketball player or a football
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  player. But that doesn't mean we don't
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  need to be aware of the techniques they use.
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  Ultimately, if you're a great coach or an S&C in any sport,
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  you're looking around you to pick up information that might
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  be valuable. But if you're asking should I
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  train my footballer like a track athlete?
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  And the answer is no, because they're not track ethics.
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  But that doesn't mean there aren't great and important
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  elements of that shape of that running pattern that can't help
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  you. And so because at the end of the
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  day, it's running and it's on the legs, right.
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  So it's more similar than not, but it's a it's a debate out
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  there that's hot. Are you focusing more?
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  So like for a footballer and let's say let's go with the the
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  straight speed guys like a receiver or running back, you
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  know you're not teaching them the blocks, right?
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  They don't have any of that. You have to be teaching the
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  acceleration pattern a little differently because we're not,
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  you know, going out as long as as we do and say the hundred.
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  Are you more focusing on the Max speed side of it or what?
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  What are you what? Here's what you're focusing on
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  in team sport, and this is a critical part of the puzzle.
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  In track, you are not going to have a perturbation in speed
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  because all you're going to do is try and hit some version of
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  your fastest. But in basketball, in tennis, in
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  rugby, in football, you don't know when your speed has to
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  stop. And the mindset of that needs to
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  be constantly part of the strategy and what you're using
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  speed for. Because yeah, you can be fast
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  and sometimes it's a flat out foot race.
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  You think of a DB and a wide receiver out there and sometimes
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  they're just awesome. 3040 meter races and the fastest one wins.
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  But if that receiver turns around and says I'm going to cut
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  or I'm going to pull back, he has to be the other.
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  The cornerback has to be ready for that.
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  And so there's different strategies on where your body is
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  balanced and how you're going to react.
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  And that's what we call agility. And agility is the different
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  component that if a team sport athlete has to contend with in
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  speed, that a track athlete doesn't change angling.
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  You got to go going straight to turning left or right or
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  stopping. Well, Can you imagine if the 200
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  meter dash said. The person in the front has the
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  choice to choose the path right as long as he covers 200 meters.
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  And so he just realized he's getting beat and he cuts
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  direction. Now that would be a different
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  game. Now you'd be running like a
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  footballer. But that's not the event.
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  You've got a lane. That lane is not going to change
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  to the very end. And really, you stay focused.
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  Yeah, I'm imagining that, by the way.
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  Imagine Noah going, you know what?
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  What's going left now? Well, he said.
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  He turns around and realize, oh, this guy will catch me if I stay
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  on this path as long as he covers 200 meters.
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  Hey, it could be a sport one day.
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  But yeah, you're dealing with in team sports, you're dealing with
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  the component of agility, and agility is the ability to move
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  where you want, when you want, and that includes stopping.
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  And so that's where we say, you know, we talk.
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  My my advice to coaches out there asking Does my footballer
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  need to train like a track athlete?
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  I would say go and learn what the track athletes do and figure
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  yourself where you think that component's going to help you
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  within the confines that you might have to stop and change
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  that direction. So we don't have that in track,
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  thank goodness, right? We're a little bit more pure
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  staying and things like that. But we do possibly have an
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  agility side of it during our slowdown, our deceleration,
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  right. And we don't really, on the Gill
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  Check and Field Connections podcast, get in X's and O's talk
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  about more about philosophy. But I think sometimes we forget
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  that, you know that last phase of, say, the hundred
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  specifically is deceleration you're trying to maintain,
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  right? But then we do stop.
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  And I've seen some people stop hard and I've seen people run an
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  extra 400 meters because of the amount of pressure that you put
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  on ankles and Achilles and hamstrings.
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  Are you teaching that in track? Are you teaching that in team
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  sports or is that just we let the body naturally learn that?
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  I think, well that it's interesting and I think every
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  athlete has a different speed is a feeling and what's really
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  important is to understand how different athletes express
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  feeling. Coaches will know this if they
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  actually run. Remember you said, hey, some
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  athletes at the end, they continue through and they run
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  300 meters. That's because they're they're
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  connected to a feeling that's important to them.
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  It's a natural decline. It's a it's a sensation that
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  they're used to. Where somebody else will, will.
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  Their feeling is I just, I'm going to make this end right now
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  and I promise you they did that from the time they were a kid.
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  So you've got it. It's really important to
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  understand what is the what, what, what I call movement
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  character. And so it's not necessarily
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  right or wrong for an athlete. If you feel it's right or wrong
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  and it maybe it's going to present a problem or an injury
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  or it's a waste of energy, then maybe you want to find ways to
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  be better at it. But you got to be really careful
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  about changing people's natural movement character.
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  The best coaches I know work within that.
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  I will tell you right now of a very interesting, real life
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  situation. With that, I won't say who and
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  which coach you might already know.
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  One of these athletes who's at the highest level celebrates
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  before the line. This is a natural pattern.
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  So far I can't narrow it down because a lot of yeah, yeah.
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  Now, and we've been talking about this, we've been talking
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  about ways to use our product to try and change that mentality.
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  But that mentality is part of a winning mentality that's already
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  in the athletes. So the question is not.
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  How do we get them not to celebrate?
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  How do we get them to focus longer?
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  This is the this is the the change because they still have
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  something in them that knows how to move into that pattern with
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  the hand up. And this is, this is again, when
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  you work at an elite level, you really get into the psychology
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  of the training, even more so than the Physiology.
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  And so it's it's knowing what would be important to that
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  athlete, why they do that. Because if you take something
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  away from somebody, that makes them fast.
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  You're going to cause problems in other places that might not
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  necessarily help you, and I think these are, you know, This
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  is why sport is such a challenge at that elite level, because you
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  have to, you have to take emotion.
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  You have to take think of the conversation we had two minutes
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  ago before we started emotion mentality.
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  The physicalities probably not the big issue.
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  On any given day, we're looking at the track right now and
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  there's, you know, Noah and Curly and everybody else.
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  On any given day, any one of these people can set the world
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  record, Why don't they? That's what the best coaches
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  understand. And so I think it's really
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  important for young coaches coming up when they're when
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  they're looking at strategies around athletes is try not to
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  change who that athlete is, but understand the things they need
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  to work on. I think that maybe holding them
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  back and find. Ways within the way they work.
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  So you mentioned not trying to change the athletes necessarily
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  physically or their emotions. It's getting to the psychology
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  of OK, how do we focus longer So we're going through 100 meters,
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  101 meters in that example. Maybe when do you stop trying to
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  change the athletes physicality of it because you know we've had
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  let's just use, we're looking at our Shakiri Richardson right
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  now. So what I'm fascinated with
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  Shakiri is as fast as she is running right now.
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  She is still very young, training age at this level.
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  She was really good at a high school.
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  So she's been at, she's been at a elite level for a while.
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  But she went, you know, from Dallas, Carter goes to LSU,
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  she's under Dennis Shavers care. Great coach, does an amazing
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  job, only there for a year and now I think this is her second
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  year. Maybe there can't be 3.
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  She's so young. Yeah, so she would be.
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  She would be like a college senior right now, but she's on
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  the top of the world. She's having the battle of the
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  whole world, right when when you're her freshman college
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  coach, do you not change it there?
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  She's an 18 year old. Do you wait until a traditional,
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  she's 22 year olds coming out of college, goes to a group like
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  Dennis Mitchell's and then you stop doing it there.
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  There's gonna be some point you're trying to change some
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  physicality of an athlete. Yeah, now.
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  And I have to be careful here to stretch beyond my scope.
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  You know, I've, I work with Dennis.
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  They're one of our partners, Star Athletics, and I've had
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  the. A good fortune and pleasure and
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  honour to be there with Shikari and the team now almost 18
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  months we've been working together and so I've gotten to
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  see and learn and understand a lot about the development of
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  that group through Dennis. So the first thing I have to say
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  is I am certainly not. At the level of expertise to
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  comment on, I think the psychology of the coaching.
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  No, no, no. Yeah.
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  And I just want to be clear on that.
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  So nobody thinks that way. I mean I'm there to help in in
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  other ways, technical ways that we work on.
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  But. But my comment, my thought from
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  my experience on that is always the same thing as you know, the
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  biggest mistake I see, and maybe this is the comment I'll give,
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  the biggest mistake I see with athletes is when.
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  You always have to move forward and when coaches so you said
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  there's there's probably still times they have to work on the
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  physicality for sure. When the mistake I see coaches
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  make at any level, from high school to college or college to
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  pro, is when they don't know what to do and so they go back
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  to something that used to work and.
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  As soon as I hear a coach or somebody turn around and say
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  something like, oh, you know, we're going back to basics, I'm
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  going back to my old coach. Things work there, so we want to
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  get it all right again. That almost never works and it
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  it's really. So the answer to your question
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  is it's really difficult to move forward.
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  And so I got to take advantage of this.
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  Jeff, come here, I got to give a shout out here.
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  You got to get in here. So, you know, we focus on the
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  track coaches here at the Gil Connections podcast, but there
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  are so many people that are behind the scenes in our sport
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  that we just have to make sure we're we're, we're shouting
• 16:08
  these guys out when we have the chance.
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  This, this head right here. This is Jeff Oliver.
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  Jeff, what is your official title?
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  Director of Communications and marketing for tracking.
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  Official title, Senior Manager of Partnerships and Media
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  Operations does it all basically.
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  Yeah, yeah, Jeff is behind the the Oh gosh, what were you doing
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  at 11:00? This morning or last night,
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  yeah, yeah, yeah. Good press conference, the press
• 16:32
  conference, when you see press conferences, someone has to set
• 16:35
  that up and manage that. Jeff, is you and your team there
• 16:37
  at Track Town USA are doing a fantastic job and I just have to
• 16:41
  say thank you publicly what you guys do for our.
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  Sport, appreciate it. Obviously thank you guys for
• 16:46
  being partners of the Pre Classic and Track Town USA, you
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  know? We keep telling people this is
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  going to be a pretty classic that's nobody's ever seen
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  before. That's right.
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  It's all shaping up and we're gonna have a great weekend.
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  Awesome. Well, so far so good.
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  All right. Yeah.
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  Yeah. So I just want to see like maybe
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  what are we, what's the over under on world records?
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  We'll see world records on. They're coming, I can tell you.
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  Yeah, low battery. All right, Jeff.
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  Thank you so much, man. Yeah, sorry.
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  Yeah. No, no, no.
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  He's the reason we're here. Town USA does an amazing,
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  amazing job. And so any of those guys, Mike
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  Riley, Jeff Oliver, whenever we catch him for a second because
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  he's about to be moving on to something else now, OK?
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  Something I was going to add to that too, just going back to
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  that and even the Shikari example is nobody's good at
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  everything. So I know, I know specifically
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  what Dennis is working on with her because we work on those
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  things together and that's one of the things we use our product
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  for are the specific physical areas that are also tied to
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  mental aspects of technique. So you at that level also we're
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  not talking about. Physicality on its own anymore
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  in high school you are oh, this person's weaker and so we need
• 17:51
  to get them stronger. But at this level, all these
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  components come together. The psychology of the technical
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  component and possibly some physicality or strength or power
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  component that needs to be developed.
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  Because of that, she as technically good as she is and
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  maybe the one of the best in the world.
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  In a minute we'll get him. One second she's still working.
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  You relegate to the side for a second, then we'll get.
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  This guy can answer that question.
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  He should be sitting in my chair.
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  We'll get him in here in one second, absolutely.
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  And the point is, there's still parts of her race like anybody
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  that needs to improve. And that means there's a
• 18:28
  physicality and a mentality to making those changes.
• 18:32
  So talk to us about Leela and Exigen.
• 18:35
  What is this thing that I'm hearing everybody, what we're
• 18:37
  talking about? Yeah.
• 18:38
  Leela So Leela's weight training.
• 18:40
  That's all it is. But it's we spent over a decade
• 18:44
  and a half building it because we needed to make a weight
• 18:47
  training that the world had never seen before.
• 18:50
  Everybody knows if you go to the gym you get this comes back to
• 18:52
  physicality. So often times you'll hear well
• 18:55
  they're weak at the end of the race or the Max velocity needs
• 18:58
  this, so you kind of throw it back for a physical answer with
• 19:01
  some strength component. But one thing we started to
• 19:04
  discover when we looked at weight training applied to the
• 19:07
  body during movement is we had to be able to adjust movements
• 19:11
  on the fly, technically, emotionally and mentally if it
• 19:15
  was going to have an oak and a race.
• 19:17
  And we ended up with a product that you can apply on the body,
• 19:20
  weight on the body to any part of the body.
• 19:23
  But you can. Once we start doing that, we're
• 19:25
  tweaking movement. And once you start tweaking
• 19:27
  movement, you're tweaking focus, you're tweaking understanding.
• 19:31
  And so an athlete turns around with with our kit and you don't
• 19:34
  hear them say things like, oh, I felt stronger.
• 19:37
  They'll come back after loading up, maybe on the posterior
• 19:39
  chain, he'll come back, he said. Coach, remember that that that
• 19:42
  step I needed on the back end, how I'm not releasing I now I'm
• 19:45
  feeling that. And so the products allowing a
• 19:48
  whole new level of education and technical sort of link between
• 19:53
  the coach and the athlete that that we never saw before and
• 19:55
  maybe that sound a little confusing, but at the end of the
• 19:57
  day, we created a suit. It's compression based to which
• 20:01
  we can apply micro loads as little as two oz up to 12 ounces
• 20:06
  and they wrap around their they're about an eighth of an
• 20:09
  inch thick. They're skin flexible, soft and
• 20:13
  you can put them anywhere you want and it sounds.
• 20:16
  That part seems important because when I was coaching
• 20:19
  check and field and still to this day we do a lot of sled
• 20:21
  pools and things like that. And I always thought maybe we're
• 20:23
  pulling a little too much weight.
• 20:25
  So when you talked about micro 2 ounces to 12 ounces, that seems
• 20:28
  more correcting the load of an athlete?
• 20:30
  No, and nobody believes me when I tell them that.
• 20:33
  The athletes we train with train announces.
• 20:35
  Now The funny thing is I was training athletes, we were
• 20:38
  preparing a group of sprinters for qualification for Athens in
• 20:41
  2003. I was on the track with them and
• 20:43
  we were pulling sleds. And the whole time Coach and I
• 20:46
  are trying to correct technique because they're pulling 2030
• 20:49
  kilos of weight, but get them to run fast.
• 20:53
  And I literally went home that night and I thought, this is
• 20:55
  ridiculous. And I remember thinking, if we
• 20:57
  can move the weight off the sled and onto the body and then just
• 21:01
  tell the athlete to run, we would have achieved something.
• 21:04
  I went online, you know, 20. This is 20 years ago.
• 21:07
  Tell me how long I've been working on this.
• 21:08
  I went online that night and looked for weighted solutions
• 21:11
  and all you had was even still a weight vest and those old wrist
• 21:16
  weights and ankle weights. And so I literally started
• 21:19
  cutting up wet suits, cutting up weight vests.
• 21:22
  I I I played for almost 7 years with prototype.
• 21:25
  No I just happened to be working at an elite level sport so I had
• 21:28
  the opportunity to put this thing on world champions and and
• 21:31
  you know the highest level of coach and athlete and so we were
• 21:34
  constantly getting feedback at a very high level and and we and
• 21:39
  the most amazing thing was my fear was odd.
• 21:42
  We're not going to get enough weight on the body because
• 21:44
  everybody wants a heavy weight back or, you know, 30 kilos of
• 21:47
  of weight. But that's not true.
• 21:49
  So what happened was when we started putting on unlead
• 21:51
  athletes, they were self selecting weights lighter than
• 21:55
  we ever imagined. So people were saying I don't
• 21:58
  want £2.00, I want 4 ounces but I want it on the back of my calf
• 22:02
  when I'm running 70s flat out and that hits my hamstring and
• 22:07
  keeps my my ground contact at race speed.
• 22:12
  Exactly. And and so all of a sudden we
• 22:14
  were, we realized, Jesus, never mind building this, we're gonna
• 22:17
  have to figure out how to use this, right?
• 22:19
  Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. So I was really worried.
• 22:21
  You're gonna say £2.00 to £12. I was like, oh man, I had this
• 22:24
  guy on here. Well, you get it, you.
• 22:25
  Mentioned that group, Kenny and Carrie and the group down there,
• 22:28
  when I'm on the track with them and we're tweaking movement,
• 22:30
  we're using somewhere in the range of 48 oz on a limb or body
• 22:34
  part, maybe a total loading of. On a body for an activity might
• 22:37
  be 1 to £2.00 total load on an entire body, right?
• 22:42
  They've been working with me for 18 months already.
• 22:45
  So, right, yeah, yeah, it's, it's, I like that we we created
• 22:48
  a new sled called the flyweight, Yeah, the same thing I think, I
• 22:53
  think just on its own, it's £5, it went light and it's, it has a
• 22:56
  tube for you to put some more weight on it, but it's not
• 22:58
  designed to put £45. There's other sleds for that.
• 23:00
  It's like 5-7 pounds if you if you talk about a 10% rule.
• 23:04
  Yes, You know, there's not a lot of athletes that can handle.
• 23:07
  So 45, here's what we did on the science on that.
• 23:10
  So you look at the 10% rule and you apply that to the whole
• 23:12
  body, 10% of body weight. Now you take a look at, So what
• 23:16
  does that mean? Because we have a modular system
• 23:18
  where you can apply it on the lower Shank, the cap, the thigh,
• 23:20
  any part of the body. Now you break down those
• 23:22
  components. You 10% only becomes oz on your
• 23:26
  calf or a pound on your forearm because you're distributing.
• 23:29
  So you have to balance that. So we have to go into all the
• 23:32
  bio mechanics of the body. We have to take a look at the
• 23:35
  anthropometry of it and then figure out and 10% is the Max,
• 23:38
  right? Right.
• 23:39
  You build up to 10, right? Right.
• 23:41
  Or you don't even, because 10%, right.
• 23:42
  I'll tell you right now, nobody is putting 10% of body weight on
• 23:46
  the calf and running at full speed, right?
• 23:47
  For sure. Not even for that limb segment,
• 23:49
  Yeah, because you're going to get what's called an injury,
• 23:52
  right. Exactly.
• 23:53
  Tried that with Ankiewicz. Where can we go to see more
• 23:57
  about this? You just go to the website
• 24:00
  itsleelateam.com. So LILATE am.com.
• 24:06
  Yeah, Leela, team.com. There's a ton of information.
• 24:08
  We've got a ton of videos out there, a lot of stuff that we're
• 24:11
  doing with Dennis's group and we're now starting to share.
• 24:13
  Of course, the first year was all pretty secret, but now, you
• 24:17
  know with we've got customers like Golden State Warriors, New
• 24:20
  Zealand, All Blacks, Minnesota Vikings, I mean.
• 24:23
  Most, many, many of the big programs and elites in the world
• 24:25
  are coming to us. And it's just because the world
• 24:29
  is moving from heavy to light. The world is moving from
• 24:32
  finally. Yeah Yeah, you know from Max to
• 24:36
  Optimal and and it's and it's exciting.
• 24:39
  Is this your coming back here to the track here at Hayward?
• 24:42
  Is this your first Prefontaine? Yeah.
• 24:44
  Yeah. So you're gonna love it.
• 24:45
  What event are you looking forward to the most?
• 24:47
  A hundred 100 meter, 100 meter, 100 meter no matter what the
• 24:51
  trek meet, is that the favorite? It's that's always, always been
• 24:54
  in my head. You know when Dennis was young
• 24:56
  and and competing, I was out there watching him and Ben and
• 25:00
  Carl. I mean, I knew the times of
• 25:01
  everyone of these guys. My friend, yeah.
• 25:03
  Well I'm. I think him and I That's right.
• 25:09
  I keep. I think, yeah we're like I said
• 25:12
  I'm I've been doing this 35 years.
• 25:13
  I was 20 years old, training my first team and back in that day.
• 25:18
  We we weren't training teams. We were telling people why they
• 25:20
  have to wait train now, right, right, right.
• 25:23
  Because remember, nobody did wait in the mid 80s.
• 25:26
  Now we're saying maybe we don't need as much as we thought, you
• 25:30
  know, are you brave enough to give me a prediction in the
• 25:33
  women's 100? Dennis prediction, Women's
• 25:37
  hundred. I think it's going to be my gal
• 25:39
  right down there. And those no, I wasn't asking
• 25:42
  you no. No, I wasn't.
• 25:43
  No. 100% Hey, I'm loyal to it. Yeah, I'll put him.
• 25:46
  Not you. Absolutely.
• 25:47
  I know, my friend. I know the right protocol here.
• 25:50
  Exactly. I'm I'm Team Star Athletics.
• 25:53
  I'm loyal all the way. It's going to be one of our
• 25:55
  lovely Lionesses from Team Star TT and Shakari and the team down
• 25:59
  there love it. They know how to do it and I'm
• 26:02
  100% confident they're going to do it.
• 26:03
  This reason you're using your product.
• 26:05
  Yeah, yeah, they it's during the race that might.
• 26:07
  Be No, no, that's a little cocky.
• 26:08
  That would be I'm so I'm going to win so much I'm going.
• 26:11
  To put it you know what, one day we might actually get him to do
• 26:13
  that. Just to show them just to be
• 26:15
  cocky. Good love with that.
• 26:16
  Hey Joe, thank you so much, man. Really do appreciate.
• 26:18
  It's awesome. You are being helpful in more
• 26:20
  ways than one because I need to keep using your phone.
• 26:22
  Oh yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
• 26:24
  Don't help on me again. Thank you so much.
• 26:26
  Go check him out at Lila team you said team Lila Lila
• 26:30
  team.com. And check out the exogen look.
• 26:32
  Sounds cool, man. I'm gonna go check it out.
• 26:34
  I'll do that and let's have a great weekend.
• 26:35
  Thanks, everyone. Thanks, brother.
• 26:36
  Appreciate you. All right, well, we might have
• 26:39
  another guest. I don't know.
• 26:40
  He's always on his phone and so he's on his phone now.
• 26:43
  I don't. I don't even know if I need a
• 26:45
  microphone for our next guest. No heckling.
• 26:53
  No heckling. So here at the 2023 Priest
• 26:56
  Frontaine Classic, the Diamond League finals, there's a few
• 27:00
  athletes you might have heard of.
• 27:01
  Maybe Kenny Bedden. I never know how to pronounce
• 27:03
  his last name. But, but, Nerick.
• 27:05
  I'm his coach and I don't know Kenny B.
• 27:08
  He should go by Kenny. B Yeah, that's what I call
• 27:10
  Kenny. B, Kenny B, Shakiri Richardson,
• 27:12
  A lot of other great athletes, and you got to come in a little
• 27:14
  bit here. It never happens without the
• 27:17
  coaches. And you know, here at the Guild
• 27:18
  Connections podcast, that's what we do.
• 27:19
  We are uplifting and honoring coaches from around the world.
• 27:22
  And I can't believe I haven't had you on the actual podcast,
• 27:26
  but I get you here live. Remember, it's live.
• 27:28
  Don't be on CNN tomorrow. Tell me.
• 27:31
  Welcome the wives, the wonderful Mr. Dennis Mofo Mitchell.
• 27:35
  Going on people, how you doing? I don't think very many people
• 27:39
  know that I officially gave. You know, you're a man of many
• 27:41
  nicknames. Yeah, some good.
• 27:44
  Some other we won't say. You take them all, man.
• 27:46
  Take them all. But I remember.
• 27:47
  I don't know if you remember this.
• 27:48
  It was 1516 years ago when I first met you.
• 27:50
  It must have been at USATF convention.
• 27:53
  We were going to lunch and you were complaining.
• 27:55
  And this is crazy thinking about where you are and your group is
• 27:58
  Today you were having a hard time finding a place to train
• 28:02
  with your group. And you're like, man, Mike,
• 28:04
  I've, you know, I go to this high school and they're like,
• 28:05
  no, I go to this place. They said no.
• 28:06
  And I'm like, you know, in my head, I'm like, this is crazy
• 28:09
  like who wouldn't want you and your group on their track?
• 28:12
  And I was like, hey, Dennis, you should just go up and tell them,
• 28:14
  say, hey man, do you know who I am?
• 28:15
  I'm Dennis Mofo Mitchell, and it is mofo.
• 28:18
  That's what it's being, yeah. And that's how our relationship
• 28:21
  starts. I love it, man.
• 28:22
  Well, thanks for joining us here on the live podcast for the
• 28:25
  Prefontaine Classic 2023 beautiful Hayward Field.
• 28:28
  I love this place for for several reasons with the
• 28:32
  equipment out there. But let's start with you,
• 28:34
  Dennis. I don't want to talk about your
• 28:37
  athletic career. You had an amazing athletic
• 28:39
  career, the Green machine, the. Do you think do you still have
• 28:42
  the audacity? Do you think you are still the
• 28:44
  number one third leg, 4 by 1 runner ever for TSA?
• 28:47
  OK, course. All right.
• 28:48
  Just checking. I'm.
• 28:49
  Just wondering that's that's one of the badges of honor that I
• 28:52
  carry. I think when people put together
• 28:54
  all time 4 by ones, I think most still pick you for that third
• 28:58
  leg. So OK, that makes sense.
• 28:59
  I'm with it. I won't argue, I won't.
• 29:01
  I won't challenge it. Although there are some good
• 29:04
  guys out there, but you know, I think pound for pound, I was the
• 29:08
  best. Yeah, so amazing athletic
• 29:10
  career. Gator alum all the way through.
• 29:14
  Love Mouse Holloway, Gil Podcast alum as well.
• 29:17
  What drew you into coaching? You're talented guy.
• 29:21
  You're a smart guy and you know, you know, I've had these talks.
• 29:25
  This is not saying in front of camera, what are you into
• 29:28
  coaching instead of a lot of other things that you could have
• 29:30
  done in private sector? Well, for me it was just a a
• 29:34
  maturation process, you know, when I got on the tail end of my
• 29:40
  track and field career. And I was always very personable
• 29:43
  person, you know. So I was always friendly with
• 29:45
  all the athletes that you know, old and new.
• 29:48
  And the younger athletes started asking me a lot of questions and
• 29:52
  they started asking the one to train with me at the end of my
• 29:55
  career. So the last four or five years
• 29:58
  of my career, I was actually training a bunch of athletes
• 30:02
  that were training with me. So I was coaching them as they
• 30:05
  were training with me. So the day I decided that I was
• 30:10
  going to retire. The next day I went back to the
• 30:12
  track because I had athletes that were looking for me to
• 30:14
  coach them, you know? So it was kind of one of those
• 30:17
  things that just kind of happened and I fell in love with
• 30:19
  it. And here I am today.
• 30:21
  Some people run towards coaching.
• 30:22
  It sounds like coaching ran towards.
• 30:24
  You, it drew me in. It drew me in.
• 30:26
  I never thought one day that I was going to be, you know, a
• 30:29
  track and field coach because of my family.
• 30:32
  You know, we're we're a family of teachers.
• 30:34
  You know, we have a history of everyone in our family goes into
• 30:37
  a school system and my my degrees in special education.
• 30:41
  And, you know, that's where I figured I was going to go.
• 30:43
  Yeah, and just didn't happen that way.
• 30:45
  I used my ability to be an educator, you know, on the
• 30:49
  coaching side. Instead.
• 30:50
  Now I'm so thankful that you're a track coach.
• 30:53
  But when you talk about being a special education teacher, which
• 30:55
  you know, teachers are a very special career path, a special
• 30:59
  Ed teacher, Oh my gosh, like you are an automatic Angel.
• 31:03
  You would have been an amazing teacher and special Ed teacher.
• 31:08
  Well, that's. Why I went in special Ed?
• 31:11
  Because in my when when I was in college, I had an elective class
• 31:16
  to where I had to go into a special education classroom and,
• 31:19
  you know, get some class hours. And the teacher there just saw
• 31:23
  that I was, you know, very good with the students.
• 31:26
  And you know, the students were attracted to me.
• 31:29
  They listened to me, which is a great thing as a teacher,
• 31:31
  special education teacher. And she's the one that kind of,
• 31:35
  you know, pushed me into going towards special Ed because she
• 31:38
  said that, you know, we have a need there and you have a
• 31:40
  special gift and you know we need you That is a gift that's.
• 31:44
  That's the direction that I want.
• 31:45
  I love that. So have you been?
• 31:47
  I actually don't know this. I I think the answer is yes.
• 31:50
  Have you been an elite coach from the get go or did you coach
• 31:53
  high school or college at all? I went straight into elite
• 31:55
  coaching so that this is an extremely hard profession to be
• 32:00
  in in any level, even harder on the elite side, at least when
• 32:05
  you're a college coach, you get to go recruit kids.
• 32:08
  So you you know, you, you should always have a crop of kids
• 32:11
  coming in and things like that. And you know, heck, sometimes
• 32:13
  you just kids just show up. So you get someone to coach.
• 32:16
  On the elite level side, you've got to go find someone to coach.
• 32:20
  You've got to go prove to that person that you're the right
• 32:23
  coach. How do you, how did you get into
• 32:26
  it? And you kind of maybe that's
• 32:28
  where it started, was those guys that you were training with as
• 32:30
  you were also competing, is that where it started the genesis of
• 32:33
  the elite level side? Of it.
• 32:35
  For me, it really didn't start. It really didn't start from the
• 32:38
  athletes to me. It started with me because I
• 32:41
  looked at my situation and I said okay, I've made this
• 32:44
  decision that I'm going to go into coaching so I have some
• 32:47
  choices I have to make. You know?
• 32:48
  Am I going to start at the high school level and work my way up?
• 32:51
  Am I going to try to get, you know, an assistant coaching job
• 32:54
  at a college? Or am I going to go where I'm
• 32:57
  the most challenged? And I decided that.
• 33:01
  Being an elite coach, going after Olympic medals and world
• 33:04
  championship medals was going to be the most challenging thing in
• 33:08
  coaching that I could possibly do.
• 33:10
  And I chose that direction. And I said, if I'm going to do
• 33:14
  this, I'm going to do it the hard way and now understand if I
• 33:18
  had to do it over again, I probably would have won a
• 33:20
  different direction because I didn't know the challenges that
• 33:23
  I was going to face, like finding the track.
• 33:24
  Like finding the track and and shoot, putting food on the table
• 33:27
  half the time, you know. You know, it's a very difficult
• 33:31
  journey to get where I am today. Am I glad I did it?
• 33:35
  Yes. Yeah.
• 33:36
  Would I have probably picked a different path?
• 33:38
  I probably would have only because of the security that it
• 33:42
  would have given my me and my family.
• 33:43
  Right. But you know, here I am today
• 33:48
  I'm. I guess I'm relatively
• 33:49
  successful at what I do and I'm happy my athletes are happy and
• 33:55
  we're on our way. What year would you call your
• 33:59
  first year of being a coach? You?
• 34:02
  Mean being successful at this? No, no.
• 34:04
  Being a coach, you put your stake out.
• 34:06
  I'm an elite level coach. Come to me trying to figure out
• 34:10
  how many years have you done this.
• 34:11
  Oh, I mean, I started. I retired in 2000, OK, as an
• 34:15
  athlete. And I started coaching 2001.
• 34:17
  Wow. So 20.
• 34:18
  Take those few years before that where I was mentoring athletes.
• 34:20
  You know, it's a little bit longer than that.
• 34:22
  So we'll say 20 plus years, 20 plus.
• 34:24
  What have you seen? The world's different in those
• 34:27
  twenty plus years, not only in regards to cell phones and
• 34:29
  social media and things like that, but just in general
• 34:33
  facility. You have a facility to train out
• 34:34
  now fairly regularly, which is good.
• 34:36
  The athletes are different for kind of.
• 34:38
  And what I mean by that because I don't want to steal what you
• 34:41
  might say here. The athletes are different in
• 34:42
  the sense of like Oh my God, everybody's running so stinking
• 34:45
  fast. What have you seen change in the
• 34:48
  20 plus years on your level, this elite level, trying to get
• 34:51
  people to the Olympic podium? Well, in in terms of the sport
• 34:54
  itself, you know, I see or I've seen a big shift in trying to
• 34:59
  make track and field a mainstream sport.
• 35:02
  That's an administrative thing in terms of the athletes.
• 35:06
  I think that the athletes are becoming more aware of who they
• 35:09
  are, not only as people but as athletes also.
• 35:14
  And I think that that's a good thing because, you know, when we
• 35:18
  ran, we were just a bunch of athletes trying to make a living
• 35:22
  and trying to survive in the sport.
• 35:25
  And these athletes these days are trying to be something
• 35:27
  bigger than that. And you know, I commend them for
• 35:30
  that because, you know, to be able to step out of our comfort
• 35:32
  zone, which is, you know, this track and field thing.
• 35:35
  To be able to step out of that comfort zone and try to put
• 35:39
  themselves into a different light is is something that I
• 35:43
  have to really commit them for. Because that's not easy.
• 35:45
  And you know, coaching any level of high school or college trying
• 35:51
  to get kids to the state meet and in college trying to get
• 35:53
  kids to the national meet, it's extremely tough.
• 35:55
  You're dealing with this much allowance of error on this
• 35:59
  level. I don't know if I can get my
• 36:01
  fingers close enough. The difference between 1st and
• 36:03
  4th, which is even 3rd and 4th getting on a podium and you're
• 36:07
  not, it's a blink of an eye, it's a snap of a finger.
• 36:11
  How are you working with them today to keep that focus, to
• 36:18
  keep even, keep their spirits up when they do get 4th or they get
• 36:23
  third and they thought they were gonna get first?
• 36:24
  How do you deal with that side of the coach?
• 36:27
  And so it's not the physical, there's no Fly 30 that's going
• 36:29
  to help that. How are you?
• 36:31
  As like, maybe counselor to the athletes?
• 36:33
  Well, the the thing that I do and and I'm not saying I, I'm
• 36:36
  the only person or only coach that does this, but I try to do
• 36:40
  a very good job very early on in the season in terms of setting
• 36:44
  the tone. And the tone that I try to set
• 36:46
  is that guys, you know from the neck down, you give me 100% of
• 36:50
  that responsibility from the neck, from the neck up, we're
• 36:53
  5050. And meaning that you bring some
• 36:57
  ownership to the table in terms of developing what you have to
• 37:02
  accomplish in that 9 or 10 second or nineteen second or
• 37:06
  22nd period, 21 second period for the females you know.
• 37:10
  So you have to be able to start from day one.
• 37:13
  Being able to get an understanding is that I live in
• 37:15
  a world of seconds and you have to be able to process
• 37:19
  information, you have to be able to be free.
• 37:23
  In in that 10 or 9 or whatever you know female or or.
• 37:28
  That is competing. You have to be ready to perform
• 37:31
  at that time. So we set the tone very early in
• 37:34
  terms of developing the mental, emotional and physical side of
• 37:39
  the athlete. That's why in my group, you know
• 37:41
  we are a family and in the family, you know, we we train
• 37:46
  everything. And I tell my athlete, you know,
• 37:48
  I'm probably going to be training some things that you've
• 37:51
  probably never been touched on before.
• 37:53
  You know what I'm saying? If you have problems mentally,
• 37:55
  we're going to work on that. If you have problems
• 37:57
  emotionally, we're going to work on that physically.
• 37:59
  Everybody comes to practice and everybody works hard, you know?
• 38:02
  But those other tangibles that these athletes need to compete
• 38:05
  at this level, you know, I'm not afraid to go after those.
• 38:08
  Also, they say the easiest way to go from #1 to 100 is GoPro in
• 38:12
  track and field. Have you seen that?
• 38:14
  Naming names, of course. Athletes.
• 38:16
  That just the physicality is all there.
• 38:19
  The speed that God-given talent, it's all there.
• 38:21
  The trainings there and just mentally, they can't handle
• 38:24
  lining up against this person and this person, this person,
• 38:27
  and it just doesn't happen on this level.
• 38:28
  Well, at this level, man, you know, you realize that there's
• 38:31
  only one person that wins the race, you know, so in in our
• 38:35
  field, we see more of that than, not than than the athletes that
• 38:39
  are the total man, right. You know what I'm saying?
• 38:42
  So as an as a coach, you know you have to make a decision
• 38:45
  whether you're going to go down that road.
• 38:47
  And help that athlete in those areas or just let them kind of
• 38:51
  just kind of squirm, you know, through their career on their
• 38:54
  own. But you know, one of the things
• 38:56
  that I do pride myself on is being able to help my athletes
• 39:00
  in that area, getting them emotionally and mentally
• 39:02
  prepared. To come.
• 39:04
  Because at the end of the day, when you step on the line, you
• 39:07
  know there's eight or nine people there and you're one of
• 39:10
  them. And physically, you have to
• 39:12
  respect the fact that each and every one of them physically.
• 39:16
  Earn the right to be there. So you have to figure out a way.
• 39:19
  As an athlete, you have to figure out a way how to separate
• 39:21
  yourself in a whole nother area, because physically you're all
• 39:25
  the same. You all earn the right to be
• 39:27
  there. So where's the other two areas
• 39:29
  that you can be better than your competitors?
• 39:32
  That's your emotional and mental side.
• 39:34
  So you have to be able to to to understand.
• 39:36
  You got to train that part of yourself too.
• 39:39
  How do you, as a former elite level, you won the medals, you
• 39:43
  set the records and now you can't do that anymore, but
• 39:46
  you're trying to help other people do that.
• 39:48
  How do you handle your emotional side of because you're taking
• 39:52
  these athletes the places you used to run?
• 39:54
  Like you can literally go the trend like, Oh yeah, I remember
• 39:56
  right there handing off the baton or I remember right there
• 39:59
  is when I won and set my PR. How do you handle the emotional
• 40:02
  side of? I'm coach, so I I can't get too
• 40:05
  high because I can't get you too high or too low, etcetera.
• 40:08
  How do you handle that coaching side for these?
• 40:10
  Well, this is a question for you guys.
• 40:11
  I haven't figured that one out yet.
• 40:13
  You know when you're when I was running, you know, and I tell
• 40:16
  the story all the time because people ask this question all the
• 40:18
  time. You know, when I was running,
• 40:20
  you know, I enjoyed the pressured moments because I felt
• 40:23
  in control of those moments. I knew what I could do.
• 40:26
  I knew I could win a race. I had a lot of belief in myself.
• 40:29
  But as a coach you have what's called a non coachable moment
• 40:33
  and that's the moment when you have prepared your athlete to do
• 40:36
  everything that they possibly can do when they get on that
• 40:40
  track. But there's a moment to where
• 40:41
  you check them in and they leave you and that's where they have
• 40:45
  to 100% take care of their destiny on their own.
• 40:49
  And that's the most nervous, most nerve racking point of my
• 40:53
  coaching. Is that when I cannot say
• 40:56
  anything to them, I cannot whisper to them, I can't give
• 40:59
  them a hug, I can't do another stride, another start, and I'm
• 41:04
  about to pass out in the warm up area.
• 41:06
  So, you know, that nonculturable moment is the toughest thing
• 41:09
  I've had to deal with as a as a coach.
• 41:10
  It's a lack of control. You've given up the control at
• 41:13
  that point. That's it, yeah.
• 41:14
  Is that one of your heart? Is that one of your hardest
• 41:16
  aspects? That's it.
• 41:17
  That is the hardest. That is the hardest.
• 41:18
  That is the hardest. Yeah.
• 41:19
  Everything else I'm a part of. All right.
• 41:21
  But that non coachable moment. All right, let's back up to your
• 41:24
  group. You've had amazing athletes come
• 41:26
  through. One of my dear friends, Justin
• 41:29
  Gatlin, was with you as well and always spoke very highly of you.
• 41:31
  It's amazing. So I love what you do.
• 41:34
  How do you you know a high school coach has to?
• 41:37
  Hold on one second. Hey guys, let's go set those
• 41:40
  blocks. Go set the blocks.
• 41:41
  I'm coming it never. Sorry guys, this is preparation.
• 41:45
  We had a track meet. This happen?
• 41:46
  That's right. High school coaches have to roam
• 41:51
  the hallways. Hey, you look like you could run
• 41:53
  track. Hey, you should run track and go
• 41:54
  to the football team. Like, hey man, you had a great
• 41:56
  you should run track. College coaches are out there
• 41:58
  going every high school meet. Hey, would you like to come to
• 42:00
  my school? They're always recruiting,
• 42:02
  right? How do you recruit?
• 42:04
  How do you get people your team are you are you at the
• 42:06
  incidentally championships at the finish line like hey man you
• 42:09
  just won. You should come with me, you.
• 42:11
  Know well, you know, in my field it comes in a couple different
• 42:15
  ways. You know, you have, you know,
• 42:18
  I'm a I'm a Nike coach. So Nike signs athletes and you
• 42:22
  know, sometimes they assign them, you know, to the Nike
• 42:24
  coach. If they don't, or if their
• 42:26
  college coach doesn't want them anymore or some college coaches
• 42:29
  will say, hey, look, I got an athlete that I need you to take
• 42:31
  from me, you know? And you know, will you take them
• 42:34
  on? And a small percentage of it is
• 42:37
  US recruiting. We don't go to the Ncaa's and
• 42:40
  start pulling athletes from the track.
• 42:42
  For us, that's kind of disrespectful to our coaching
• 42:45
  environment. So our main thing is Our Calling
• 42:49
  card is our accomplishments, our accolades, if you're a winning
• 42:54
  coach. You know, athletes are going to
• 42:56
  want to come and be coached by you.
• 42:59
  You know, I've I've had the fortunate ability to be able to
• 43:02
  win the World Championships on the men's side and 100 and now
• 43:05
  I've had the opportunity to win it on the women's side.
• 43:08
  So you get a couple phone calls. You.
• 43:10
  Know what I mean, But your accomplishments at this level
• 43:12
  speak everything speak volumes. All right.
• 43:15
  Last couple topics, I'll let you go because I know they got to
• 43:17
  get those blocks going. See, I told you.
• 43:19
  They're calling me. They're calling me.
• 43:21
  You got one more questions. Two more questions.
• 43:24
  Look at this case are pulling up.
• 43:25
  They're coming to get me. I'm curious specifically with
• 43:28
  Shakiri, you know you got amazing talent there and the
• 43:31
  congratulations one of the way you guys did a great job.
• 43:33
  I'm curious because is this her second or third year out of out
• 43:38
  of? College.
• 43:38
  No, this is her 4th year with 4th year.
• 43:40
  OK, so she would be because she left after her freshman year.
• 43:44
  So this would be like her first year out of college normal if
• 43:47
  she had gone through college, right?
• 43:49
  So what I'm trying to get at is you have a, obviously a special
• 43:51
  talent. God's given her a lot of
• 43:52
  ability, but her training age at this level, let's call it from
• 43:57
  Dennis Shaffer to you. So five this years, it's still
• 44:01
  really young. How do you handle this amazing
• 44:05
  talent? That's still, I don't want to
• 44:07
  say she's still figuring things out.
• 44:08
  I saw a video of you guys doing the box the other day.
• 44:10
  She is still figuring things out.
• 44:12
  How do you shepherd that responsibility of such a young
• 44:15
  training age on a high-powered athlete?
• 44:18
  Well. At any level in coaching, if you
• 44:21
  want to have your athlete be the best at what they do, there are
• 44:25
  several core principles that you have to have intact as a coup.
• 44:30
  Those those core principles is you have to be biomechanically
• 44:33
  sound, you have to have the strength to be able to be
• 44:36
  biomechanically sound, and you have to have the mental and
• 44:40
  emotional stability to be able to compete at this level.
• 44:44
  So those core principles is what principles are, what I pull
• 44:47
  forward every single year, no matter what age the athlete is,
• 44:50
  that I get them. So you have to bring those core
• 44:52
  principles to the forefront and keep them a part of your
• 44:55
  coaching at all time. Now, the thing that you have to
• 44:57
  do in terms of specializing with an athlete, you have to get that
• 45:02
  athlete into your program and you have to figure what those
• 45:05
  inconsistencies are and you have to attack them, you know, But
• 45:09
  there's not a. You know this athlete is is so
• 45:11
  young that you don't want to do these things.
• 45:13
  You know, if an athlete wants to compete at this level, whether
• 45:16
  they're 19 or 29, you know there's only one gold medal
• 45:20
  that's being given out, you know.
• 45:21
  So you have to be the best of what you do when it's time to do
• 45:25
  it, no matter what age you are. So whatever the athletes
• 45:29
  capability of learning is, you have to maximize that for them.
• 45:33
  Got it? Well, you hold a special talent,
• 45:35
  you'll do a lot of special talents down there.
• 45:36
  I know Shakira gets a lot of the press, but with TT, Ben, Eric,
• 45:40
  amazing people and Brown, Kyrie and some new ones coming in, you
• 45:45
  know you really hold a lot of special things for Team USA.
• 45:49
  We won't be successful without your group and other groups, of
• 45:51
  course, but we just want to wish you the best of luck, man.
• 45:54
  They're in great hands. I know that for sure for
• 45:56
  personal experience and thank you so much, man.
• 45:58
  I know they're yelling and chomping at the We've got to go
• 46:00
  get down there. So thank you so much.
• 46:01
  Appreciate it. We'll see you soon, alright.
• 46:05
  Alright. Hey, you know it never stops,
• 46:08
  right? I didn't even get to ask what
• 46:10
  he's looking forward to the most.
• 46:13
  Hey, Joe, come on in. I didn't even get a chance to
• 46:16
  ask him what he was looking forward to the most.
• 46:18
  I was not going to ask him. Like I asked Joe a prediction.
• 46:22
  I'm not doing that to a coach and he's got too many athletes
• 46:24
  in here. He would.
• 46:25
  It would just be bad to be bad for him.
• 46:27
  But we're someone's not good. It's not it's never going to end
• 46:31
  good. So, Joe, give me some parting
• 46:33
  words as you look forward to the next two days.
• 46:36
  Tomorrow we've got half the meet and then Sunday we've got the
• 46:38
  other half. What?
• 46:39
  Give us some. Give us some words of wisdom.
• 46:42
  Actually I was listening to you talk with Dennis and you know
• 46:47
  you asked me about my experience in track and field.
• 46:49
  I've had a pretty broad experience, Track and field is
• 46:51
  one of them and and to be honest.
• 46:53
  I've had the honor and pleasure of working with many good
• 46:55
  coaches across sport. I've I've actually worked in
• 46:57
  every sporting discipline there is and every level.
• 47:01
  Yeah, yeah, you name it. And now now in that, I mean it's
• 47:05
  the support service for those sports.
• 47:07
  So I get the chance to work and see how different coaches
• 47:10
  operate. And I have to say Dennis is one
• 47:12
  of the best in the business and that's 35 years of business and
• 47:16
  he made a comment that really talked about that.
• 47:19
  He said, You know, everybody comes to me.
• 47:22
  Physically ready. They're all they're all there at
• 47:24
  that game And him and I were talking and I'll share something
• 47:26
  that he said. And I want to this because if
• 47:29
  coaches are listening and athletes are listening I think
• 47:31
  that kind of wisdom is really helpful and it goes off when he
• 47:34
  said you know they all come to me physical so where can you be
• 47:37
  better than somebody else. Maybe it's the mental or the
• 47:39
  emotional. And he we were talking about
• 47:41
  this the other day when he first called me and said Joe we need
• 47:44
  your product. I know what I think it can do,
• 47:47
  but can it? And we when I went down to
• 47:49
  Florida and we sat down and we talked a lot and he said.
• 47:51
  You know, everything you're saying makes sense, he said.
• 47:53
  Because we're not in the game of more strength, he said.
• 47:56
  All of my athletes can basically put about the same stuff into
• 48:00
  the ground. We call that ground force,
• 48:02
  right? And everyone gets really excited
• 48:03
  about that, the angle of that, and it matters when you're young
• 48:06
  and coming up, but very quickly that doesn't matter.
• 48:09
  And he said, what separates my athletes, not how strong there
• 48:12
  are, how much force they're putting in the ground.
• 48:14
  What separates my athletes is what they do in the air.
• 48:18
  And he said that's he said airtime management, that's what
• 48:21
  separates the good to the great. And I since going on and use
• 48:24
  that term a lot And you look at Steph Curry.
• 48:26
  Steph Curry doesn't do things at top speed.
• 48:29
  But what he does in the moments to set up his steps, his shops,
• 48:33
  his fades, his passes, whatever it is or any great athlete is
• 48:37
  exceptional. And so I know we often think of,
• 48:41
  hey, if I get more strong, more strength, more power, more this,
• 48:44
  but. You're not being paid to be a
• 48:46
  weight lifter. You're being paid to move well
• 48:48
  and technique is more important than fitness or strength.
• 48:51
  And I'm saying this is a strength coach who sold strength
• 48:54
  to all our athletes. Until one day I got asked a very
• 48:57
  good question from a world champion badminton player who
• 49:00
  uses an 80 gram bracket. And I remember we're doing a
• 49:04
  bench press and he literally looked at me and he said Joe.
• 49:06
  My racket weighs 80 grams. Why do I have to bench press 80
• 49:09
  kilos? And I lied to him.
• 49:11
  You know, I gave him a answer that meant nothing.
• 49:15
  And literally, you know, like like Dennis said think about
• 49:18
  what makes. He said if I can help these
• 49:20
  athletes understand why they're fast and focus on that, they're
• 49:24
  going to be able to hit that more consistently.
• 49:27
  And so I that's that's the message I think about is think
• 49:29
  about what wins, you know the really important things and
• 49:33
  generally it's not how much a squat.
• 49:36
  Unless the competition is squatting, right.
• 49:38
  There you go. Is your power lifter.
• 49:40
  Exactly. Yeah.
• 49:41
  It's amazing the next level of coaching.
• 49:43
  You know, I heard someone talking about the other day and
• 49:45
  I don't remember what athlete. I'm glad.
• 49:47
  I don't remember what athlete. But something about their delts
• 49:50
  were so big from being developed and pinching and all that stuff
• 49:53
  that it was restricting their arm movement.
• 49:55
  So what therefore was restricting their?
• 49:56
  And I was like, Oh my goodness, I never thought of that.
• 50:00
  And at this level you do. Yeah you do.
• 50:03
  You do. And it's funny now when I, you
• 50:05
  know it anecdotally I box now and and just an amateur boxer
• 50:09
  and I go in. I've got a Russian coach and if
• 50:11
  anybody knows anything about Russian coaching, it's well, I
• 50:14
  think it's the model for the world, right.
• 50:16
  It was certainly was and because the technical proficiency they
• 50:19
  demand from the coach and the athlete is on a different level
• 50:23
  and my coach looks at me on I come in some days to training.
• 50:26
  He just looks at me, goes. You did you did weights
• 50:28
  yesterday? And he said, I told you no
• 50:30
  pumping. He said everybody knows if you
• 50:32
  want a box you don't pump, wow. And and he he can see it
• 50:35
  immediately. And by that it means the pump in
• 50:37
  the muscle that you get from certain types of weight lifting
• 50:41
  will slow you down. And there's going to be a whole
• 50:43
  bunch of people saying that's not true, blah blah, blah.
• 50:46
  And I'm telling you, they're right.
• 50:48
  I mean if the guy can look at you and say you lived it
• 50:50
  yesterday, that and. You could feel it.
• 50:53
  So now here's the thing again, weight training and the the,
• 50:58
  the, the accessorized training that we do all has a great
• 51:01
  place. Put it this way, if you're a
• 51:02
  high level sprinter or you want to be fast, you're going to have
• 51:05
  to do some squats. You're going to need a V8
• 51:08
  engine. But.
• 51:09
  We don't spend a lot of time after the V8.
• 51:11
  Is there worrying about making V9 or V10 that doesn't.
• 51:15
  That's not where more speed comes from.
• 51:17
  It's how you put all that together and think what Dennis
• 51:19
  said. Athletes think they're in
• 51:21
  control of their speed and they shy away from the things.
• 51:25
  They're actually in control of their emotional and their
• 51:27
  psychological state to training. And unfortunately a lot of them
• 51:30
  only pick that up later because they believed my drilling and my
• 51:34
  weight training and my running was the only thing that was
• 51:37
  important. And so if you're.
• 51:39
  A young athlete, even 15161718. My advice to you would be start
• 51:43
  looking at how you run emotionally, how you run
• 51:46
  psychologically, and make a note of the things that you're not
• 51:50
  good at in those areas, because I promise you those will be the
• 51:53
  things that hold you back. There's a million people who can
• 51:56
  get you stronger in a squad. We just had a comment from old
• 52:00
  paper money and said in high school we're still building and
• 52:03
  I and I think you're right, 100 percent, 100%, that's right.
• 52:06
  And I do think if people focused on the basics and got really
• 52:10
  good at those basics, you'll be way better off.
• 52:13
  I think this level is just a different level of basics.
• 52:16
  Yeah, cuz you're already building on hopefully four years
• 52:19
  of high school, closest to four years of college.
• 52:22
  So you haven't developed athlete to that point.
• 52:24
  So you still have to. And I think Dennis even talked
• 52:26
  about the basics are important. So I think you're always
• 52:29
  building. I don't care if you got the
• 52:30
  Olympic gold medallist, I think you're still building.
• 52:32
  And I think it hit the comment probably to to give credit to
• 52:35
  that that person who who made the comment is they're saying,
• 52:38
  you know, you need these things to build that 100%, you need
• 52:41
  that foundation. And I think what's really
• 52:43
  important again to that, that comment, is if you're a high
• 52:46
  school coach, know what you're building them for.
• 52:49
  You have to be thinking it's not my job to win.
• 52:52
  It's my job to prepare them for that college level, and if I
• 52:55
  don't know what that college level is, I better go talk to
• 52:58
  some college coaches and ask them how do you want my athlete
• 53:01
  to look when they come to you. Now, some people know that and
• 53:04
  they build them very well and there are some incredible high
• 53:06
  school programs and coaches and others are disconnected.
• 53:09
  But it's really important even for coaches.
• 53:11
  Not just athletes need to know what the next level looks like,
• 53:14
  but coaches need to. Some do, some get it through
• 53:17
  experience, but some have no idea and they're building the
• 53:20
  athlete. To a ceiling.
• 53:23
  And the college coach gets them and think, man, what were these
• 53:26
  guys doing in high school? And I always think, why don't
• 53:29
  you guys talk to each other, right?
• 53:30
  You know, yeah, it doesn't always work out that way.
• 53:32
  That's the perfect world. But you know, and it's not
• 53:35
  everybody I was having a a talk with, right Benjamin's coach
• 53:40
  earlier this afternoon and you know, she was a pretty good
• 53:43
  hurdler herself, I think. I don't know if she won the
• 53:46
  gold, but she won a lot of stuff.
• 53:47
  She was definitely Olympian Joanna Hayes and she mentioned
• 53:51
  and just I. Flew in with her today.
• 53:52
  Oh, did you? Yeah, she actually loved her.
• 53:54
  She mentioned how you know, there's a lot of coaches who
• 53:57
  think that you could, they could do better.
• 53:59
  And I'm reminded of we have a coach here.
• 54:01
  George Williams coached at Saint Augustine in North Carolina,
• 54:04
  many, many division two national titles.
• 54:07
  Was a Team USA Olympic head coach as well-being big time,
• 54:09
  highly regarded coach. And his saying is if you don't,
• 54:13
  if you're not in the huddle, you don't know the play.
• 54:16
  So it's easy to say like she was using the example of her eye
• 54:20
  who's had a lot of injuries and she's like, Oh yeah, a lot of
• 54:23
  people come up to me and say oh man, he should have done this,
• 54:25
  he should have done that. And she's like you had no idea
• 54:27
  that this happened in his personal life, that this injury
• 54:30
  happened. And so we've got to communicate
• 54:32
  better. Instead of being isolated with
• 54:34
  our coaches and our athletes, we have to be communicating more
• 54:37
  and judge less. Yeah, and I think that's a
• 54:40
  really good comment. Communicate more, Judge last,
• 54:42
  because unfortunately we start with Judge 1st and then
• 54:45
  communicate after when we found out we were wrong.
• 54:48
  You know what's, you know, what's interesting is now the
• 54:50
  way I would approach this, coaches are pretty approachable.
• 54:53
  I think if you're a young coach, one of the best things you can
• 54:56
  do is reach out to a coach that you admire, you listen to and
• 55:00
  try and get into their ear a little bit.
• 55:03
  Comment, check, ask them questions, you know, go visit.
• 55:06
  I think there's a lot of coaches out there that are willing to
• 55:08
  share. But you're right if you are.
• 55:10
  If your version of sharing is watching what they do online and
• 55:12
  making a judgment about it, you're going to be in the wrong
• 55:15
  direction. Even I've been, now that I've
• 55:17
  had the chance for the last year and a half, two years to be with
• 55:20
  Dennis's team. And I see the comments that even
• 55:22
  coaches are making about why Kenny's running so well, why
• 55:25
  Aaron's running so well, or why TT and Chicari are running so
• 55:28
  well and they're breaking them down online.
• 55:30
  And I'm watching that, I'm thinking.
• 55:32
  None of that, right? That's none of what what's
• 55:34
  happening. I'm not the coach, but I'm on.
• 55:36
  I know what we're looking at, right?
• 55:39
  And and ended. So I think, wow, you know, we
• 55:41
  can we can really get lost in that conversation online.
• 55:45
  Right. And I don't think a lot of
• 55:47
  people would find closed doors if they reached out to some of
• 55:50
  these coaches said, mind if I pick your ear a bit?
• 55:53
  Here's the fun part, because I agree with you and as a, you
• 55:55
  know, former coach myself, and now you know, my whole job is to
• 55:57
  talk to coaches every day, Very open, very authentic to having
• 56:00
  conversations. It's the ones that say they
• 56:03
  don't want to talk to you. Oh, cool, then you know exactly.
• 56:06
  You know, and luckily it's rare, but it's like, okay cool, I know
• 56:08
  not to talk with you or look at what you're doing.
• 56:10
  They're probably not going to help you exactly.
• 56:12
  You know, it's. And and we went and working in
• 56:14
  Olympic programs, What I would see is the Olympics would finish
• 56:18
  or the world champions would finish, or the Asian Games or
• 56:20
  Commonwealth Games would finish. And then we would read all the
• 56:23
  reports in the newspaper about this gold medal and that one.
• 56:26
  And there wasn't one report that was written that had any
• 56:29
  foundation on why that person didn't win.
• 56:32
  Now I would live in Asia, so I can tell you some of those
• 56:34
  medals might have been decided before the game.
• 56:37
  But but yeah, you, you know, there's usually very simple
• 56:41
  reasons why things didn't work. It wasn't some big secret, you
• 56:44
  know, and like Dennis was also saying, I hope people really pay
• 56:47
  attention to what he said because he is a brilliant coach
• 56:50
  and that in in many ways and is that.
• 56:55
  It's the smallest detail can make a difference.
• 56:57
  And what he says is if I can get those athletes to connect to the
• 57:01
  reasons why they're fast cuz they're already fast and I can
• 57:05
  get them to do that consistently, then I've done my
• 57:08
  job. Because like literally on any
• 57:10
  given day that group could set a world record.
• 57:14
  You know, there's anybody in there is a is a world champion,
• 57:18
  why don't they? It's amazing watching them.
• 57:20
  It's like, oh man, that person can set the world record
• 57:22
  tomorrow. That's why I kind of joked with
• 57:23
  Jeff Oliver about what's the over under world records,
• 57:26
  because it's the man. It could be every single event.
• 57:28
  I mean, this field is theoretically everyone.
• 57:30
  Theoretically there could be 100% world records 100%.
• 57:34
  Yep, minus wind or whatever. All right, Joe, wrap us up here.
• 57:37
  You have a vast experience with many, many different sports.
• 57:41
  Which one is your favorite to work with and why is it
• 57:45
  tracking? Field and why is it track and
• 57:47
  field, Well, track and field. Now here okay 2 answers, 22
• 57:50
  parts to that. So First off track and field
• 57:52
  because it's absolute. It's like we talked about
• 57:55
  there's no other performance factors and so you don't you you
• 58:01
  somebody spends their entire life with 9 steps and a jump
• 58:05
  like a high jumper and and I know.
• 58:09
  That sounds crazy to most people, but they work on that
• 58:12
  day in, day out for the 10,000, maybe 20,000 hour rule.
• 58:16
  And when you watch track and field, the winner is obvious.
• 58:21
  You don't have to wait for the ref, you know, guess what?
• 58:25
  That bar falls or it doesn't fall.
• 58:27
  You made the height or you didn't.
• 58:29
  There's the line, there's the track and the absolute of it,
• 58:32
  and the loneliness. And incredibleness.
• 58:35
  And Dennis talked about that when he says.
• 58:37
  And then I have to leave my athlete and I can't be there
• 58:39
  anymore. That's really telling.
• 58:41
  It is because. I'm a team sport guy and I spent
• 58:44
  a lot of my life in the NBA, the NHL, working with NFL teams, you
• 58:48
  know, professional rugby. And there's a lot you can do
• 58:50
  constantly in a team sport activity.
• 58:53
  Not only that, you're yelling at them and changing the game while
• 58:55
  it's on. And so that's a very different
• 58:57
  dynamic. And so track and field to me is
• 59:00
  the beauty of pure athleticism in.
• 59:04
  The fastest, the highest and the longest, the absolute.
• 59:10
  And then my other. My favorite sport is the sport I
• 59:13
  played for many years is rugby and I played semi pro over in
• 59:17
  Asia for many years until I was quite old again because I love
• 59:22
  team sports, but because rugby has a team culture and it's one
• 59:28
  of the only sports that you know if you if you if you play rugby
• 59:32
  and you go to any city in the world.
• 59:33
  And you don't know anybody. You just find a rugby club and
• 59:36
  you'll have family. And yeah, it's a special group
• 59:39
  that way and the World Cup is on right now too.
• 59:42
  Everybody's excited for France and but yeah, youth sports, I
• 59:46
  know almost zero about. I probably get rugby and
• 59:49
  Australian Rules football mixed up and there's there's a few.
• 59:51
  So American, yeah. I mean, even I I well, I I knew
• 59:55
  what rugby was in Canada, but I learned it when I went to Asia.
• 59:59
  And I was big and strong, so they grabbed me and they stuck
• 1:00:01
  me out on the wing and said just run.
• 1:00:03
  Okay, I can do that. I can.
• 1:00:04
  Do that. But, but I found out what the
• 1:00:06
  culture was like and I really think it's a special culture for
• 1:00:10
  sport. But again, coming back and and
• 1:00:13
  like I said, I love teamwork and you really see that essence
• 1:00:16
  where, you know, you look at football, soccer.
• 1:00:20
  What drives me nuts about soccer is when somebody scores the
• 1:00:22
  goal, they run away from their team, right?
• 1:00:25
  That's not my mindset. But if you did that on a rugby
• 1:00:28
  field, your rugby team would say, would say they would let
• 1:00:32
  you know. You might have scored, but I
• 1:00:33
  gave you that pass and my 10 tackles put you in that
• 1:00:37
  position. I love it.
• 1:00:38
  And so they appreciate that. But again, you know, we're going
• 1:00:41
  to see here in the next two days some of the most absolute pure,
• 1:00:46
  beautiful moments in. Athleticism absolutes and and
• 1:00:50
  and track and field has that better than any other activity
• 1:00:54
  on the on the planet when you nailed it man.
• 1:00:56
  And it's all driven by these amazing athletes that every
• 1:00:59
  single one of them has a coach. And so you know we're just
• 1:01:01
  always honored uplift and uplift and honor those coaches that are
• 1:01:05
  driving the sport on all levels. And so it's a lot of fun to be
• 1:01:07
  able to talk to these elite level side and see what the
• 1:01:10
  difference is there and college and high school.
• 1:01:12
  So we're gonna wrap it up here. We're excited.
• 1:01:15
  I know this is on TV. I should have known this before.
• 1:01:18
  I think it's gotta be NBC and Peacock and things like that.
• 1:01:20
  But go check it out tomorrow. I wanna say it's like 11:00 to
• 1:01:23
  2:00 Pacific Time and then kind of maybe that same time frame on
• 1:01:26
  Sunday I'm gonna set the over under on world records.
• 1:01:31
  I wanna say one cuz I feel like there's one that's a really safe
• 1:01:33
  bet and that's the men's pole vaults.
• 1:01:35
  Mondo. Every time he steps on the
• 1:01:37
  runway there's a shot there. It depends on the wind and the
• 1:01:41
  100. But boy, I tell you, Shakiri is
• 1:01:43
  running. She's got, you know what, she's
• 1:01:45
  running. She's running consistently and
• 1:01:47
  this is what we were talking about on any given day.
• 1:01:49
  That woman can do maybe a 10410 five, but she's running
• 1:01:54
  consistently and and I think there's a lot of athletes right
• 1:01:56
  now. Armando, you mentioned these
• 1:01:58
  guys are consistent right now. And that's that's where an
• 1:02:01
  athlete wants to be. Yeah, I love it.
• 1:02:03
  I love it. Hey, thanks for joining us here
• 1:02:04
  on the Guild Connections podcast live from Prefontaine 2023.
• 1:02:09
  You're good. I gotta give you around.
• 1:02:11
  I love it, man. Check us out.
• 1:02:12
  So we are on every podcast app that you have out there.
• 1:02:15
  If you don't know the show, every Monday, we drop a new
• 1:02:18
  coach from the high school, college elite level.
• 1:02:20
  We've got some amazing alumni's. You like Grant Holloway, Mouse
• 1:02:24
  Holloway. He's been on the podcast.
• 1:02:26
  You like good distance runners, Dave Smith from Oklahoma State.
• 1:02:29
  You like good high school coaches, man.
• 1:02:31
  The USTFCCCA Boys and Girls National Coaches of the Year.
• 1:02:35
  They'll be dropping in the end of November and beginning of
• 1:02:37
  December. And then we're going to do this
• 1:02:39
  all over again. We're going to be at the
• 1:02:41
  USTFCCCA in Denver on December 5th.
• 1:02:44
  I think it is. It's that Monday.
• 1:02:46
  That's not the right date. December 12th, maybe 11th, Check
• 1:02:49
  out my Twitter at my county. I always have my dates there.
• 1:02:52
  We're going to do live again where we're going to have
• 1:02:53
  coaches at the convention sit down with us, tell us what they
• 1:02:55
  like, what's going on in the season and just have a little
• 1:02:58
  bit of fun because that's kind of why I do my job right.
• 1:03:01
  So thanks for being here, guys. Have a great day.
• 1:03:02
  Appreciate you. Thanks so much dude.
• 1:03:08
  Thank you if you. Track and field world.
• 1:03:20
  You were now tuned in to a home servant, Mike Cunningham, for
• 1:03:25
  another extraordinary message on Gill Athletics connections.
• 1:03:29
  We welcome to the show with the go see.
• 1:03:31
  We appreciate the coach. The ones you point people most
• 1:03:34
  every season leaves a voice of reason speak in the growth you
• 1:03:37
  got to bet before you carry the load.
• 1:03:39
  It's called to the soul for those of us to stand to go
• 1:03:42
  proper handoff, to stay in the zone with you packing for the
• 1:03:45
  road. There's more than one way to the
• 1:03:47
  go. Take notes.
• 1:03:48
  That's paying you told. It ain't practice if your
• 1:03:50
  purpose ain't clear. It can't happen to you.
• 1:03:52
  Listen what both is. You can't mentor without a
• 1:03:55
  mentor. She is of experience.
• 1:03:56
  You can reinvent those years every plan's got to stand and
• 1:03:59
  deliver up to. And the price sacrifice can you
• 1:04:02
  give up you. It's a choice.
• 1:04:04
  And to fight not to win or lose. It's not a ploy, but a device
• 1:04:07
  that y'all can make more moves. It's not about how to.
• 1:04:09
  It's all about why. You don't know till you know who
• 1:04:12
  you are inside. 6,000,000 waist to tie.
• 1:04:15
  Choose none. So be all for us.
• 1:04:16
  Finish line. The work ain't done.
• 1:04:18
  So we learn from the experts. For y'all got to put in the
• 1:04:20
  legwork. Kill athletics, use the network.
• 1:04:23
  It's all about connection put together for the profession.
• 1:04:26
  To every track, coach could be the blessing.