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5 Ways to Decide Between No Contact and Low Contact with a Narcissist and God's Input · Toxic Relationship Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: Welcome back to the Toxic Podcast, everyone.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: I'm Pastor Jake O'Connell, and today we're tackling a question that so many of you have sent in: no contact versus low contact with a narcissist.
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_03: Which one is right for you?
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_03: And to help us unpack this, I'm joined by Shannon L.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_03: Alder, relationship life coach and author of the best-selling book, The Narcissistic Abuse Recovery Bible.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_03: Shannon, it's great to have you back on the show.
• 0:22
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks, Jake.
• 0:23
  SPEAKER_01: I'm really glad to be here.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: This is a topic that comes up constantly in my coaching sessions and in the messages I get from readers, so I think we're going to give people a lot of clarity today.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_03: So let's start with the big picture.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_03: When someone is dealing with a narcissist, whether it's an ex, a family member, or even a coworker, what's the general rule of thumb?
• 0:42
  SPEAKER_03: Is no contact always the best approach, or are there exceptions?
• 0:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, Jake, in most cases, yes, no contact is the gold standard.
• 0:50
  SPEAKER_01: It gives your nervous system a chance to reset, it stops the cycle of manipulation, and it allows you to reclaim your identity without constant interference.
• 0:59
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a huge caveat.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_01: If you share children with the narcissist, no contact isn't always possible.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: Then you have to shift to low contact, which is a completely different strategy.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_03: Right, because you can't just disappear when there are kids involved.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_03: So how do you navigate that?
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: What does low contact actually look like in day-to-day life?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Low contact means you limit communication to only what's absolutely necessary for co-parenting.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: You use a parenting app like Our Family Wizard, you keep conversations brief and businesslike, you don't engage in emotional bait, and you set firm boundaries.
• 1:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's about protecting your peace while still fulfilling your responsibilities as a parent.
• 1:36
  SPEAKER_03: That makes a lot of sense.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a lot of people struggle with guilt around this, especially Christians.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_03: They think if I'm supposed to love my enemies and turn the other cheek, how can I just cut someone off?
• 1:47
  SPEAKER_03: But the Bible actually gives us a ton of wisdom on this.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus didn't hang around bad people all the time, he walked away from crowds to rest undisturbed.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_03: He wasn't a doormat.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: That's such an important point, Jake.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_00: So many survivors feel like they're being unchristian by setting boundaries, but that's not what Scripture teaches at all.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Jesus modeled healthy boundaries, he withdrew when he needed to, he didn't let everyone walk all over him, and he confronted wrongdoing when necessary.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_03: Think about the story in the temple.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_03: Jesus didn't just politely ask the money changers to leave, he turned over their tables and drove them out with a whip.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: That's not a passive, doormat Jesus.
• 2:27
  SPEAKER_03: That's a Jesus who stood up against exploitation and abuse.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_03: So, walking away from someone who hurts you isn't unchristlike.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: It's actually following his example.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_01: And that's so freeing for people to hear, because the church sometimes gets this wrong.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_01: They preach endless forgiveness without boundaries, and that keeps people trapped in toxic relationships.
• 2:48
  SPEAKER_01: But Jesus never said, Let people abuse you forever.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: He said, Be wise as serpents and innocent as doves.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_01: Wisdom means protecting yourself and your children.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_03: Let me share a few scripture stories that illustrate this.
• 3:03
  SPEAKER_03: In Luke chapter 4, when Jesus was in Nazareth, the people got so angry at his teaching that they tried to throw him off a cliff.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_03: What did he do?
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_03: He passed through the crowd and went on his way.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't stick around to be hurt.
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_03: He removed himself from the situation.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_03: That's a powerful example of walking away from danger.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_01: That's a great one.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: And there's also the story of David and Saul.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: Saul was trying to kill David out of jealousy, and David didn't just sit there and take it.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: He fled, he hid, and he even had opportunities to kill Saul but chose not to.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: But he didn't stay in Saul's presence to be abused.
• 3:37
  SPEAKER_01: He kept his distance while still respecting Saul as God's anointed.
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_03: Right, and that's key.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_03: David respected Saul's position, but he didn't subject himself to Saul's abuse.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_03: He maintained boundaries while still honoring God.
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_03: So for someone today dealing with the narcissist, you can forgive them, you can pray for them, but you don't have to let them keep hurting you.
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_03: That's not love, that's enabling.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where the rubber meets the road for co-parents.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_01: You can't go fully no contact, but you can go low contact.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_01: You can communicate only about the kids, keep it factual, and refuse to engage in their drama.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easy, but it's necessary for your sanity and your children's well-being.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: Absolutely.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_03: And I want to be crystal clear: choosing no contact or low contact doesn't make you a bad Christian.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_03: It makes you a wise one.
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_03: You're looking out for your children and your spirit to be happy and healthy.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_03: That's not selfish.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_03: That's stewardship of the life God gave you.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I love that framing, Jake.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Stewardship.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: Because if you're constantly drained and traumatized by a narcissist, you can't be the parent or the person God called you to be.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: Protecting your peace is an act of faith, not a lack of it.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_03: So, Shannon, you've been open about your own journey with narcissistic abuse.
• 4:53
  SPEAKER_03: Can you share a bit about your experience with no contact versus low contact?
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_03: I know you've mentioned that you didn't go no contact with your ex, and that had some real challenges.
• 5:03
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Jake, I'll be honest, I didn't go no contact with my narcissistic ex.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: And looking back, I wish I had, but at the time, I didn't fully understand what I was dealing with.
• 5:14
  SPEAKER_01: And the hardest part was that he was hoovering me, trying to suck me back in while I was engaged to my now husband.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: He was trying to win me back, and it was emotionally exhausting because I no longer believed a word he said.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't a person to him, I was a prize to be one.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: That sounds incredibly difficult.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: How did you handle that?
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: What did you learn from that experience that you can pass on to our listeners?
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_01: I learned that even when you don't go no contact, you have to enforce strict boundaries.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: I had to be very clear that I was moving on, that I was engaged, and that his attempts to reconnect were not welcome.
• 5:51
  SPEAKER_01: It was hard because he knew exactly what buttons to push, but I had to remind myself that his words were just manipulation.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_01: I wasn't a prize, I was a person with worth and dignity.
• 6:02
  SPEAKER_03: And that's such an important message for our listeners.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_03: Whether you choose no contact or low contact, the goal is the same: to reclaim your identity and stop being a pawn in their game.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: You are not a prize to be one.
• 6:15
  SPEAKER_03: You are a child of God, created in his image.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_01: And for those who are co-parenting, you can't fully escape, but you can minimize the damage.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: Use a third-party app, keep conversations short, and never let them see you react emotionally.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's how you starve the narcissist of the supply they crave.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_03: That's practical advice.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_03: And I think it's worth noting that Jesus himself modeled low contact in some situations.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_03: He didn't always engage with the Pharisees.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_03: Sometimes he just walked away.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: In John chapter 8, when they brought the woman caught in adultery, he didn't argue with them.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: He stooped down and rode in the sand.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_03: He disengaged from their track.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's a brilliant example.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_01: He didn't give them the emotional reaction they wanted.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: He stayed calm, he stayed in control, and he turned the situation around.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_01: That's what low contact looks like.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: Not taking the bait, not getting drawn into their chaos.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_03: So for our listeners today, if you're wrestling with whether to go no contact or low contact, what's your final word of encouragement?
• 7:15
  SPEAKER_03: What do you want them to take away from this conversation?
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: My advice is this: if you can go no contact, do it.
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: It's the fastest path to healing.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: But if you can't, because of children or other unavoidable circumstances, then go low contact with fierce boundaries.
• 7:31
  SPEAKER_01: And remember you're not being unchristian, you're being wise.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_01: Jesus walked away when he needed to, and so can you.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_03: Amen.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_03: And before we close, I want to remind everyone that Shannon has incredible resources to help you on this journey.
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_03: You can visit ShannonLpuolder.com to learn about the 90 Days to Freedom Workbook, which is a supplement to her new book on life after narcissism coming out next year.
• 7:55
  SPEAKER_03: She's also creating a new course on how to break the trauma bond in 90 days.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_03: All of that can be found on her website.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_03: And don't forget to follow us on all podcast platforms.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_03: And stop by Staying Positive University on Facebook for uplifting quotes about emotional abuse.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you, Jake, and I just want to say to everyone listening: you are not alone and you are not crazy.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: What you've experienced is real, and there is hope.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: You can break free and find peace.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: God sees you, and he is with you.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_03: Now, as we wrap up, I want to read a scripture that speaks to overcoming abuse.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_03: From Psalm 34, verse 18.
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_03: Father God, we lift up every person listening who has been hurt by a narcissist.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_03: We ask for your healing, your protection, and your wisdom.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_03: Give them the courage to set boundaries, to walk away when necessary, and to trust that you are with them.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_03: Restore their joy and their sense of worth.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: In Jesus' name, Amen.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Amen.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for joining us, everyone.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Take care of yourselves, and remember that you are worthy of love and respect.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_03: God bless, and we'll see you next time on the Toxic Podcast.