Latest / Half the Picture / #44 - TYLER BATES

Transcript

#44 - TYLER BATES · Half the Picture

• 0:00
  The story behind Deadpool 2 and me getting the parental advisory tag on the soundtrack, David Leitch, you know, was new to like doing a film with an orchestra. And so he came into my choir session one day. He's like, wow, he says, so, so cool. He says, what are they singing? I'm like, well, for now, they're singing this phonetic, like faux Latin song.
• 0:21
  language that I created. Here's a pen and paper if you want to write some lyrics. That's when we got into the, oh, holy shitballs, you can't stop this motherfucker, all that. Oh, holy shit. Oh, that works out just perfectly. That's wonderful.
• 0:44
  Hi Tyler, welcome to Half the Picture. How are you doing today? Fantastic, good to see you. Good to see you too, mate. And where do we find you there? Is that your home studio? Yeah, it is my only studio. Well, actually we have five here at my place, but I built studios into this house long ago so that...
• 1:04
  that I could maintain a strong connection with my family amidst my 70 hour work weeks for decades. So, um, yeah, it's, it was mandatory for me. Um, but yeah, I'm here and, uh, I'm in a, in a space that I really enjoy, uh, to spend my time in and be creative with. And, um, it's interesting, you know, I'm not, I, I really don't have like a video tour set up here, but, um,
• 1:31
  The vibe here is probably much better than it looks on camera. And what I wanted to create in a space for me to work in daily was also a space that was great to just hang out and have a conversation in or just listen to music, not necessarily have everything so...
• 1:51
  centered toward my work. Like I want to make sure when I'm collaborating with another artist, whether it's a songwriter or singer, or it's a director or producer, whomever it may be that my room isn't overpowering and then it certainly doesn't,
• 2:09
  It's not imbued with my past work. Say I'm doing an indie film. It would be kind of unfair to have like a Guardians of the Galaxy poster in my studio. You know, it's like, yeah, we're doing this, you know, $10 million movie. And, you know, well, that one, you know, is in the stratosphere. So...
• 2:29
  I try and make it all about the work that we're doing at that time. And, you know, I do make records with people here in my studios. We have, uh, you know, our, our facility downstairs where we record, you know, drums and bass and stuff. If we're doing a rhythm section, um, if I'm going to do a full ensemble, then we're not going to do it here. We go outside, but, um, I have, have made records here, uh, top to bottom and they've turned out really well and, and been successful. So. Yeah.
• 2:58
  I hear you and and just to give people like say like you're in you're an incredibly prolific composer has worked across so many amazing movies and genres and you've done so much incredible work I mean in case anyone you know just I mean to give a kind of cliff notes version we could be here a while but I mean Gardens of the Galaxy 1 and 2 you know 300 Watchmen Dawn of the Dead Sliver I mean yeah they work with Ty West on Maxine you know so much incredible work
• 3:22
  And as you know, you're clearly someone who, you know, knows, you know, seems to me to know very much what they're doing. And I guess as a kickoff, like what to you makes a good film composer? Well, the key is, is we're in service to the story and obviously with the director's guidance and sensibilities in mind. And then obviously we have to, especially the larger films, we certainly have to appease.
• 3:49
  all the the powers that be who are creatively invested in what we're doing so uh the score is really all about uh it's it's just storytelling through music and it's all about emotion for me um
• 4:07
  So the things that I would factor into any project is first of all, you know, the, the story and then who's, who's directing it. Did the director write the story? Well, then I know how very clearly their words should, uh, guide me as far as me seeking the clues, um, that I need to understand or decode because I don't really, uh, want to engage a director and, uh,
• 4:36
  and very specific musical language. The one thing I love about working with Ty West, and he's very adept with music. I think he can play a little music. And his wife is a very successful DJ and classical cellist.
• 4:55
  So he has a great understanding of music and could probably give me specific references that might box me into a corner. But him as a filmmaker knows what he wants to get out of me. So he's not going to bridle me in that way.
• 5:13
  He's going to give me some thoughts to consider. And yes, we can loosely reference something that we love or we find to be intriguing as food for that conversation. But we keep, you know, the discussion is generally nonspecific because he wants me to create something.
• 5:33
  And by doing that, it kind of gives me a license to go anywhere. So we don't have to live entirely in an orchestral score or some weird sound designing score. You know, everything's on the table so long as it serves the storytelling and emotion.
• 5:53
  And I think he's been one of the strongest directors I've worked with who are capable of that because he's an editor also. He writes, he can shoot, he edits, and he...
• 6:09
  Yeah, he definitely keeps me out of harm's way. I'm never beholden to a temp score when I work with him. You know, unfortunately, that's become the way in the last 25 years. Temp scores have permeated films and now editors are on set.
• 6:25
  And as they're assembling footage, they're putting music to it. And oftentimes directors don't really see the dry footage. They see it with a piece of music in it. And then they grow attached to it because there's that instant stimulus that that feedback that shows them, hey, this is this is working. This is good.
• 6:45
  So I don't fault anyone for their process at all. Everyone's got to find their way of doing this. They know only once they get to the end how successful that process is. And we as composers need to create process for every project that are not exactly the same because it depends on the dynamics of the conversations you're going to have.
• 7:09
  When I work with Ty, it's generally one-on-one. Genndy, Tartakovsky, one-on-one. So I know them very, very well. And Chad Stahelsky, too. That's one thing I love about working with all three of them is they're such strong creators, such strong personalities that the creative process really lies between us. If there is a battle that needs to be waged, they'll go wage it.
• 7:39
  you know um but i have to create a process that makes the discussion of music and what his purpose is uh to happen more in a vernacular than in a specific musical language um and i can through being perceptive uh of their interests their personalities i i generally um
• 8:03
  have a good idea of how to create a process that doesn't make it seem so much like we're having to get into the weeds about what music is and, you know, what they're trying to get out of me. And really, after, you know, I didn't think about this getting into the film music business when I first started. As a matter of fact, I never aspired to do it. Yeah.
• 8:31
  People, when I would meet them, would just ask me to do their low-budget films. And I'd say, yeah, I've never done this before. And I've only done this. And they wanted me to do it anyway. And I really paid attention to everybody on the project of post-production. And I was fortunate enough to really learn a lot about the craft through editors, directors, producers, the re-recording mixers, music editors, all.
• 9:01
  The whole thing. And and so that that was really quite interesting. But as I said, I didn't expect to get into this business and I certainly didn't think about it until, you know, just actually within the last decade at dawn on me. It's like, you know, hang in this business for all these years to do so many different things. You know, you're in the room of geniuses.
• 9:28
  all these directors, they're brilliant. I mean, Gendy Tartakovsky is brilliant. Ty West is brilliant. James Gunn is brilliant. You know, Chad Stahelski is brilliant. I mean, he's, there's nobody better at what, what each of them do specifically. They all have this unique, even if you want to call it an idiosyncratic aspect to their talent, because it's so distinctive that
• 9:55
  to hang with them, to hold the room with them, to create a process with them, and to deliver something at the end of the day that serves their projects in the way they want it to. To do that successfully, you really have to pay attention and be able to hold your own in a room with people who are always in a heavy room.
• 10:19
  Like it's a big room, you know, especially when you're doing a Marvel movie and you've got the executives in the room with you, you know, it's a lot of pressure. Um, and not that they're not cool, but it's a lot of pressure. And this business doesn't wait around for you to get, to get it. You kind of have to get it or someone else will be getting it, meaning your job.
• 10:44
  So it's about paying attention and really listening and making sure people are heard. You know, that's the key. And if I know somebody is going to be creatively invested in the music, even if they're not going to be at the front line of the conversation, I do try and hold a meeting with everybody. And we talk and talk about the movie. We talk about sports, whatever it is. And in that conversation, I'm going to be a little bit more.
• 11:11
  If it's loose enough, people will offer their thoughts and their ideas. And everybody who's involved wants to be heard. They want their idea to somehow, their presence to be part of that conversation, the development of that idea. So I'll oftentimes just play music just spontaneously back to someone else.
• 11:32
  to say, you mean something like this? Yeah. And when they feel that they've been heard and it comes back to them in a real time expression of music, that's not prerecorded, but it's actually something I'm just expressing back to them. It,
• 11:48
  it kind of takes the, the mystery of the music out of the conversation. And now we're just talking, you know? And so, so I think it, it empowers everybody to, to,
• 12:04
  to be engaged in what we're doing and to not through obfuscation or whatever you want to talk about, you know, like keeping my door closed to the 11th hour. I don't allow anxiety to build with people. You know, I try and share as soon as it's appropriate. As soon as the director is cool with me sharing something, I'm cool with it.
• 12:28
  I want to invite people into the conversation so we can land this together and we can be excited together as we get to the final stages of producing the score. So that's key. I respect wholeheartedly the interests of others. They're invested in their own way as much as I am.
• 12:49
  So, um, that's one thing to understand, you know, I didn't understand what I was getting into. I was just, you know, I started off doing Corman movies and Saban movies and, you know, I couldn't really harm those movies. You know, they were, were pretty, uh, rough around the edges, but I learned so much from them and it was amazing. Like the first real movie I did, like where it was shot well and edited well, it's like the music just kind of was like hand in glove. Yeah.
• 13:17
  you know it was amazing so you do notice that when a film is is really well done and it's well edited it needs to be shot well and acted well but if it's well edited the music and kind of just comes together naturally for you in the movie so and then we have the other kinds you know and that sometimes i think when when movies are crafted or created uh
• 13:43
  with the temp scores guiding the way too much, I think the beats become unnatural and they don't become, they lose their lyrical capabilities because this is the dance behind the picture is classic.
• 14:01
  is kind of a ballet, so to speak. The way a film is edited, the way it's acted, the cadence of the dialogue, the sound design, all of it is integral to the rhythm of a movie. And that's part of how an audience just gets into a film and wants to be there, wants it to continue, instead of looking at their watch at 45 minutes in. Yeah.
• 14:27
  So great ones are really, really such a privilege and an exciting opportunity to work in. That's a fantastic answer. So it sounds like amongst many other qualities, like what makes a good composer is for what you're saying is communication and being able to have those open conversations with your collaborators.
• 14:51
  Well, all of us artists, we have some form of damage, you know what I mean? In some way, something that compels us to be insane enough to pursue our life as artists. It has to be oxygen to really go that hard and that deep.
• 15:15
  And so you do have to be level enough and deep enough and observant enough and compassionate enough and open to reach that level of communication and collaboration that goes beyond superficiality. And I'm not talking about becoming codependent.
• 15:37
  You know, because when I'm working on a movie, I mean, Ty West and I are into like our sixth, sixth one together. I don't call and say, yo, bro, what are you doing, man?
• 15:46
  I have a deep connection with Ty, probably more so than some of the people that I see more frequently in my life. But maintaining some parameters of professionalism is really important because I don't want our roles to ever become cloudy when we're working together. Yeah.
• 16:12
  It's he's the one who has started this whole thing. He's the one who's asked me if I would join him. He's much higher on the food chain than I am. And it's important to respect that. And it doesn't mean I feel. I.
• 16:32
  emasculated in my role or anything. It's just, it's just like, look, man, I'm a tight end or a wide receiver on a football team. You know, he's Tom Brady. That's what it is. You know? So, and I'm cool with it. You know, I'm totally cool with it. Cause I don't want that job.
• 16:50
  You know, that's, you know, it's just like when you're playing in a band, someone's a drummer, someone's a guitarist, someone's, you know, a singer, whatever. So we all gravitate toward the things that we feel suit us best or most enticing to us. And I love solving riddles, which honestly, as a composer, that's what we do. Oftentimes films have technical issues.
• 17:15
  that need to be solved through music because we're basically the last bastion, uh, of filmmaking before it goes out the door. You know, the, the mix is the final detail, but, but as far as shading a performance or affecting the tempo of a film,
• 17:32
  were kind of the last stop for, for, uh, the filmmaker. Um, and that's an interesting task as well. Sometimes things don't turn out exactly as they were intended to. And maybe they're 80% of what, you know, the director was aspiring toward as far as whether it's a performance or it's the way a scene was blocked or lit or something like that. I mean, they're doing so much in the process of making these movies, uh,
• 18:01
  that never have enough days on the schedule right so there's always going to be something that we have to deal with that we want to try and help them correct or de-emphasize or emphasize part of a scene and not the other it just depends what the call is and that's an interesting task and sometimes we can do it with music and sometimes we can't you know but um
• 18:24
  uh, I find it to be, uh, uh, always new. Like every movie I do is always a new thing. I never approach it like, yeah, well I'll do what I did for this. We'll give them that. Oh yeah. This one like that. I just, that's disrespectful. Um,
• 18:43
  And it's actually not very honorable to myself. You know, my own code is, you know, this is my whole life. Music is my whole spiritual being is committed to creativity and my engagement with others. And it's important to me to keep my house clean, so to speak, and to not walk through life.
• 19:13
  is a has-been or a zombie repeating, you know, wash-rinse repeating what I've done before. And sometimes that leads me to failures creatively.
• 19:25
  I've failed, you know, I failed in movies, I failed in songs, I failed, you know, that happens from taking risks from trying new things. And maybe the clock runs out on you before you've perfected the idea or been able to articulate the idea in a way that you've wanted to, but you know, we all deal with it, all of us composers, I mean.
• 19:47
  I remember a hundred years ago when I was doing Dawn of the Dead, uh, the schedule for that was very quick. I think from the time I was hired going into a Christmas holiday to, uh, the final dub was like seven weeks and there's that movie is all music. Um, luckily everybody involved was fantastic. That was my first one was Zack Snyder. Um,
• 20:11
  But anyway, I remember my good friend Dave Lombardo. He's a very famous thrash metal drummer who basically invented thrash metal drumming. He's become a dear friend. But that was our first creative encounter together. He was one of the percussionists on the session.
• 20:31
  And, um, I think that what I was asking him to do during the course of the day, because we recorded it all the percussion in one day, he was working with three union percussion guys who were like, you know, Hollywood guys.
• 20:48
  And I think it was kind of nuts and bolts and kind of mundane or it was more utilitarian, you know, but he had his drum kit set up and I'm like, yo, man, I'm like, when we get off the clock, you mind just blasting for me?
• 21:05
  You know, because I wanted to really feature Dave because he's a very unique talent and such an awesome person. So after our session ended with the union guys, we recorded. I didn't even have a cue for Dave at that point. I knew I still had some stuff to write. I'm like, dude, just give me like a few minutes of Dave Lombardo. Just whatever, whatever comes to your mind. I'm like, you can go as hard as you want.
• 21:34
  So I was getting toward the end of the movie. It was the last day before I could, before I had to stop writing, you know, because we, we didn't have any more time with the orchestration team.
• 21:48
  And all of a sudden I'm like, holy shit, I've got like two hours. And I forgot I had this whole thing to do. And Dave recorded this. And so I wrote this piece of music that was kind of emblematic of the kind of riffs that Slayer would do. A lot of really fast chromatic runs and stuff. It was really fun. And it was...
• 22:10
  kind of a modern version of an old France waxman type of thing that was insane, you know, probably an old Frankenstein movie or something. But so anyway, it was all double bass drum and super fast Tom fills and stuff. And the band was like playing super fast. Yeah.
• 22:27
  And so I did that literally in under two hours and it's about a two and a half minute stretch of the movie. And I sent it out the door and I do remember recording it and the string players just going, okay, how many more times are we going to have to play this because their arms were burning, you know, from the super fast tempo and the tremolo playing.
• 22:45
  But it was cool. At the end of the day, it turned out great. And it was the really nice feature of Dave playing drums, but it served the movie really well. And it's still a very orchestral piece of music. But when people see that in the audience and they don't understand how this process works as being a composer for movies, they think you have ample time for everything. You know?
• 23:08
  They wouldn't imagine, oh, that was literally conceptualized and out the door in under two hours, you know, and that's what happens. Or sometimes we see movies that are more atmospheric and perhaps the punter composer might say, oh, yeah, they probably did that in two days.
• 23:25
  No, it's like a, it's a long time that is required to create the finite sound that the director and the studio is looking for and to curate that along with the cut of the film. So there's a lot of work that goes into even the subtlest of scores.
• 23:42
  so it's it's really interesting but i find each each project is always going to present a different challenge a new challenge for me and that's something that i thrive on you know i love to be walking the line of failure throughout my entire life and taking on those challenges is what that is for me you know i'm confident i'll find a way maybe not to fail fall into the pit of death but um
• 24:08
  but I like to be real close to it. It keeps me amped up. And that's why I also love performing. It's, it's, if you're the lead guitarist in a band and you're playing, you're walking out on stage and whether it's in front of a thousand people or it's 50,000 people or 200,000 people and all of it, a ton of times, you know, um,
• 24:38
  You're you're like, it's live. You, you, you, I mean, you can suck or you can kick ass. So you have to have your mind prepared to kick ass, but it's fun when you're taking chances and is the risk that you're not going to stick the landing. That's when things get interesting.
• 24:58
  yeah yeah yeah you can totally feel that about everyone's that you can feel that totally in your music when you listen back to it you can feel that energy and that sort of that risk-taking and that kind of kineticism it totally it feeds into the music you can totally feel that so i totally hear what you're saying yeah there are things there are things that like i love the score from watchman i love that movie uh the whole thing it's it's one of my favorites uh favorite films
• 25:28
  the score. Matter of fact, I even have
• 25:32
  this tattoo right down. The reason I had this Rorschach tattooed on me, it's really more of a commentary on today, you know, the society today, people see what they want to see. But, but at the 11th hour, some of the, the picture changed after we recorded. So some of my recorded score in order to land the beats was edited a bit. So the flow isn't as,
• 26:02
  naturally lyrical as it was originally. So sometimes the struggle with that and we don't, you know, we don't understand is just the audience member who hasn't
• 26:14
  imbibed in this career you know we don't understand necessarily how little control we composers have at a certain point we have to turn it over we have to put our pencils down and then we're at the mercy of everyone else who's affecting the music till the movie's in the theater
• 26:34
  um not that anyone did anything uncouth that was wrong or anything like that it's just unfortunately we had to add another 16th note here to that chord and then subtract one here in order to land this and it just feels janky sometimes but it's still really there's a lot of beauty in that score and um
• 26:54
  And I love the the the high points, you know, and I've had the privilege of performing it live, too, for people, which is a lot of fun.
• 27:06
  Yeah, I can imagine now, but that's, that's one of your scores, which would be fantastic to hear live. I mean, you mentioned him a few times now that Zack Snyder, who obviously directed Watchmen, who you've worked with a number of times on Dawn of the Dead and then 300 and, and Sucker Punch. I mean, what is it about Zack? I mean, I just going into that sort of, I guess, artistic relationship a little bit, like, what is it about Zack that makes him so, I guess, unique to, to work with as a composer? Yeah.
• 27:31
  on those phones? Zach is a very, uh, typically upbeat kind of guy, you know, like when they're in the mixed stage, he's usually throwing a football to somebody, you know, if it doesn't, if the moment doesn't require his direct attention, um, he likes to keep things upbeat. Um, I think I think
• 27:50
  When I began with him, his musical language and understanding as far as how it applies perhaps more formally to movies was undeveloped. And so he was completely open. Yeah. And he...
• 28:07
  I mean, Dawn of the Dead was the last movie I did where there were no notes on the entire score throughout the entire process. Wow. I will never forget that. I would never expect that to happen again. But yeah, he and the whole creative team would come to my converted garage studio at the time. Yeah.
• 28:31
  And I would play back everything I had to share with them. You know, like I said, the schedule was pretty quick. So we had about five of those meetings before we scored the, you know, recorded the score. Yeah.
• 28:43
  And they just, they were cheerleaders. They're like, oh man, now we have a movie. We love this. You could just keep doing that thing. We love that, you know? And it feels really great to have that support because there's a lot of experimentation in the sound of that score. My longtime collaborator, Wolfgang Mathis,
• 29:05
  and I were very deep into our modular synth explorations, and we were two nerds that had rigs set up, and it was like we would sort of jam and then just record stuff, and the convergence of each of our ideas sometimes inspired us to...
• 29:29
  cut you know three or four seconds of recorded audio and then format that into a sound that we could later play on a keyboard and more articulately apply to the movie and so there's so many of those moments and for us because we're we're very close um
• 29:51
  Like our friendship, our soul is in the creation of those sounds. So the movie is not mine. I have no control over that. But some of that substance is created not just from a synth that everybody has. And I managed to turn the knobs one way when people turn on the other. This was just literally us imbibing.
• 30:13
  And something we love. And then taking moments from that and being able to repurpose it in a way that served the film. So that was really amazing. And the scoring sessions were such an incredible experience for me. Because it was my first large orchestra. I had worked with, you know, like 40 players or something a couple times. But, you know, I was coming out of the low-budget world. And Dawn of the Dead was my 33rd film.
• 30:41
  Wow. My first large orchestral scoring session. And again, the players on that session, some of them had known of me from working with me in some capacity previously. And it was really cool that they they kind of looked out for me because they knew I was still pretty green when it came to those type.
• 31:02
  that process. So, um, it felt really good overall. Cause I felt like everybody was on the same team and everyone felt like they had to, to, uh,
• 31:15
  to really, you know, make the three point shot, you know, from the half court. So it was, it was a time when I just felt everyone's energy moving together in a positive direction. And it was so helpful in my next steps forward in the business. You know, it was interesting though. Here's, you know, here's an antidote about Hollywood, the business, um,
• 31:39
  So I had done this movie called, uh, you got served, which is what I had done immediately before Dawn of the dead. That's like an urban dance movie. Um, I am grateful that I had the opportunity to do that film that came out and was number one. Dawn of the dead came out three weeks later, number one. So I had two number ones all of a sudden, my first two within three weeks of one another. Hmm.
• 32:07
  And then I, I could not get an interview on anything for about five and a half months. Yeah.
• 32:16
  I finally got a job doing a mini series with like Brooke Shields and Lou Diamond Phillips or something, you know, but we have bills to pay. And, you know, I, like I said, I was, I was, you know, I'd come like from in the nineties. My band was on Atlantic records and I did some touring with that. And there was, that reached its end. And so I was fully in the film composing world and I wasn't really very much involved in TV. Um,
• 32:45
  sometimes i need to make the ends meet so i would paint houses do whatever i had to do while i was scoring you know uh it was it was really really a struggle to get to the point where the boat was fully in the water and that became the way i paid my bills so um i never took any of this lightly
• 33:07
  But that's surprising to me to hear that, like you say, because those two scores you did, like were such, you know, those movies were so big. And then I'm just surprised that like, yeah, so you say it took you five more months to get another interview. I mean, why was that, do you think?
• 33:21
  I think after those have been so big, there, there was some politics involved. I think, um, I don't want to get into the weeds in that, but it's just the way it goes. Like I have friends right now who scored number one movies, big movies, incredibly talented, done numerous TV shows that so many people have watched and,
• 33:42
  And all of a sudden their phone stops ringing and they've been in the business for a long time and crickets for years. You know, so I I'm not sure. But what I can say in retrospect now that I'm a longtime veteran of this business, movies like Dawn of the Dead.
• 34:05
  like my work with Rob Zombie, Devil's Rejects, the Halloween movies, 300, and certainly Guardians of the Galaxy and John Wick. All those titles kind of permeated pop culture. They got into the zeitgeist somehow. Mm-hmm.
• 34:24
  And that's part of what has buoyed my career. And fortunately, I worked with a lot of brilliant filmmakers at the more nascent stage of their careers. So again, we were learning, but we were experimenting, and the yield was really interesting results at times. I try and stay focused on the creative objective, and there's nothing I won't do to...
• 34:52
  deliver the best possible product I can. But, you know, again, like the general audience doesn't, you know, they'll watch a movie like Lord of the Rings and not understand the disparity between that and 300 when it comes to time and budget. 300, the score recorded in three days, choir, everything. Wow. Except for the preliminary work I did with the percussion and then all my guitar work on it.
• 35:20
  I recorded myself. I was the choir in that movie. And then I added 60 singers. So my voices and all that stuff too. We just had to do whatever we could to, to make it work. And actually in order to finish the movie, I had to borrow money against my house to deliver it because they gave me
• 35:39
  so little money to work with. But I did that because it was such an incredible artistic opportunity. And I knew that that would be something important moving forward. And I would feel terrible if I didn't do everything I could in my power to deliver the best possible product. And that's not the only time I've had to do that. You'd be shocked at some of the projects that required that.
• 36:07
  But at the end of the day, I am fortunate. I've had the opportunity to work again with geniuses and I've worked on some really big films. Um, I don't know that we knew they were going to be big at the time. I mean, 300, we didn't know it was going to change movies, but it did. And you just don't quite know until it happens. Um, John Wick was an indie film, like the first John Wick, uh, when, uh,
• 36:35
  I mean, that's a really interesting thing, and I almost didn't do that movie. Really? Yeah. The story behind John Wick was I received a phone call one day from music supervisor, John Houlihan, who has become a very good friend of mine, and he lives close by, and...
• 36:53
  So he called me one day and he says, so, hey, man, he said, I'm working on this this little indie action film. I think it's going to be good. And he says they have asked for an original song by Marilyn Manson. And so I've been directed to you. They told me to talk to you about a song for the movie.
• 37:17
  I'm like, okay. He said, can I come over and listen to some of the record? And I'm like, yeah, sure. You know, it wasn't final mixed or anything at that point. And so John came over and was listening. And the second song I played him was Killing Strangers. He's like, that's the theme of John Wick. He says, that's John Wick. And I'm like, okay. Okay.
• 37:40
  And he says, can we have a meeting here in the studio in a couple of days? I'm like, yeah, sure. So we had a meeting, I remember, on a Tuesday afternoon. So Keanu came over and the directors, Chad Stahelski and David Leach came over and the music supervisor and Manson was here.
• 37:55
  And I'm working on Guardians of the Galaxy 1 at the time, and we're getting pretty close to the finish line. So it's frenetic at this point. The number of details that need to be addressed. And you're still trying to stick that landing, you know, because there are things that are changing. It's almost like water circling the drain, you know, how it really speeds up at the end.
• 38:16
  When you're working on a film like that, that's kind of how the process goes. You know, the work isn't, the game isn't won early. You know what I mean? It really is a testament to your stamina at the very end because everyone's focused, hyper focused on the details. So I don't have a spare minute. Like I'm working at that point, no less than 14 hours a day.
• 38:38
  And I did that Manson record working like three days, three nights a week. So I get up at six 30 to do my day job, take a break at seven. He'd show up at eight or nine at night, go till three, four in the morning and
• 38:54
  And I'm like, you got to get out of here. I got to go to bed. And then I couldn't work with him the next day because I needed to recover. So anyway, we're having this meeting. Those guys are having a very good time. May as well have been Saturday night for them.
• 39:11
  So we're blasting the record at concert volume, of course. And I had, you know, massive speakers in my studio. So it was, it was fun. And sure enough, uh, you know, Keanu certainly responded to, uh, to killing strangers, uh, quite a bit. So they showed us a sizzle reel for the movie and they're like, look, we really, we don't have much money, but here's kind of the thing we're making. And, um, so Manson and I looked at it and we're like, yeah, that looks cool.
• 39:41
  So then after everybody left that day, you know, Hulahan contacts me the next day and he's like, hey, man, he says, how do you feel about scoring this movie? And I'm like, I've got like six weeks left on Guardians of the Galaxy, which I was it took me about 15 months to complete the process because I was writing music before my start date.
• 40:03
  So, you know, James was supplying me with a previs where they animate sequences. And then I write to those. So it was a long haul, especially because I was still finishing up Californication. I think I'm trying to live life with a family and stuff. So the sleep was not on the menu for that couple of years.
• 40:25
  So anyway, I'm like, I can't do it. I'm like, you know, James and I have been so laser focused on this. And so then he's like, okay, then he emails me and he says, well, what about if you did this with blank?
• 40:43
  And I'm like, I'm thinking, okay, I could probably come up with the title or main theme idea and work with my friend, Joel Richard, who has been a good friend of mine for a long, long time. And he's very talented and we share a relatable aesthetic and he's a guitarist and been in bands and...
• 41:07
  we love a lot of the same music and we love a lot of music that is not similar you know so it makes for a very interesting pool of creative ideas and interactions so Joel was down to do it Chad and Dave were cool with it they just said look at the end of the day you know we want your signature on it they actually
• 41:32
  They actually held post for a little while until I could become fully engaged. But Joel was integral as well. He did an amazing job, and I think our collaboration was awesome in that movie. And yet, again, we're working on this little movie. I had no idea with Keanu whether it would just be an indie movie or it would be a big one. You never know with him because he's done everything, right? These two guys I recognized finally when we were in that meeting. I'm like...
• 42:00
  sheesh i know these guys where do i know them where do i know you from they're like dude remember we met on 300 they were the stunt coordinators and the the like the fight choreographers
• 42:11
  um so they were they were spartans in the movie and so for months and months i'm looking at this picture that is all green screen and a wheat field and these two guys were in it so that was chad and dave um so anyway not to be too tangential we get into it and uh had a wonderful experience and i really loved being able to do the songs for the film uh which i ended up doing almost every song that's in
• 42:39
  in the entire John Wick series. So I was able to write and produce it or produce it, depending if it was an original song or not. So that was a lot of fun because in my heart, you know, I mean, I came into life as a first a sax player, but electric guitar was it for me, you know, that changed my life.
• 42:57
  I love rock music. I love jazz music as well and classical, but my heart as a player is in rock. And the aesthetic of John Wick is that. And Chad and Dave were both, they're both big lovers of rock music. They love ACDC and all that stuff. So it was really a wonderful match. And then when I really soaked it in, I,
• 43:23
  understood that I'm working with two masters in their craft. These guys are the best stunt guys that are going or certainly as successful as anyone's ever been doing that. They're both, you know, masters of martial arts,
• 43:40
  Just total badasses and good people. And there's something about them that I felt within myself. It felt like we were a band in a way. So the power of John Wick is the thing that people don't pay for when you bring someone on.
• 44:00
  uh, to be part of a band or a project, you can agree to what the fee is to, to do the job, but to give your heart and soul is something that we just do if we want to. And for whatever reason, the way that table was set, that's what the culmination of it is. It's everyone's heart and soul in it. And, um, I think it was amazing. And our music editor at the time was Brian Richards.
• 44:28
  Uh, literally the day he signed on to John Wick 2, but he was very integral to the music process of John Wick 1, which stayed in the entire series of John Wick.
• 44:44
  We still revere Brian. He was a wonderful guy, a very unique person. And people who've worked with him in the business know him as a one of one. And, you know, you really have to pay attention to those people in your life, you know, that are unlike anybody else who are fantastic. So I'm lucky, too, to have worked with a lot of one of ones.
• 45:08
  manson is one of those you know he's a one-of-one um so i'm not
• 45:15
  telling people they should like, dislike, whatever. I'm just saying my experience is like, wow, I grow from that experience when I can imbibe in creativity with somebody that like that, somebody who's not cookie cutter, somebody who's not aspiring to be anyone but themselves. Um, that to me is exciting. And again, when you're, when you're doing that, you're still, you see, you see the, you feel the flames of failure, right, right there. And it's kind of cool. Yeah.
• 45:44
  You know, so John Wick was amazing that it ebbed into this total pop culture, you know, entity, and it's become a massive franchise. And I'm really proud to be part of it.
• 46:00
  I feel that is definitely one of the things I've worked on where I feel like my work has contributed to what it's become. And again, I'm really proud of it. And the people are amazing. So, yeah.
• 46:17
  And it'd be great because Chad and Dave, uh, pursued their individual careers after that. Chad stayed with John Wick and then stepped into ballerina. And so I worked with him and all that stuff and movie pitches and stuff. And then Dave went on to do some other movies that I had a great time working on, uh, atomic blonde. And then of course, Deadpool two, which was my real award and in my career. And that was amazing.
• 46:44
  our score got the parental advisory sticker with no songs on it. So that was pretty, I think it's the first one, um, to do that. So it was a lot of fun, uh, to work with him as well. He's amazing. So, yeah, but, uh, you know, this is a really interesting career, you know, just it's, it's, it's just a matter of how much you're willing to step into, uh,
• 47:09
  all the different challenges that come your way, how open you are to, to going into places that you're not entirely familiar with and seeing if you can be effective and doing justice to whatever the objective is. So, yeah,
• 47:25
  Yeah, absolutely. Absolutely. Yeah. And with John Wick, I mean, specifically, because something I was thinking when I was listening back to your scores for those movies, which, again, I think you're absolutely right. They really are such an integral part of them. Is the fact that, as you say, you're a composer who loves to, you know, take risks and to try new things. And I guess with those four films, and I guess Ballerina as well, like, was it challenging at all to like, kind of, I guess...
• 47:50
  push those themes and build bottom across those four films? Was that challenging or was that part of the fun? Well, it's both. There is no waltz through the park with Chad. You've got to understand this guy's, you know, I mean, he's a...
• 48:07
  He's a great guy, super badass. And the only way that he could have become who he is is through grit, hard work, pain, dedication, just mental fortitude. And not that he's trying to punish anyone who's working with him, but he engages you and expects you to have that strength. Yeah.
• 48:34
  And that's why I think all of us who work on these movies are so proud of them because it's a tax, man. I mean, it is hard, but it's not because he's trying to make life hard for me. He's throwing down harder than anybody. So you are inspired to do that. And it's actually a requirement to make it through. Um,
• 48:58
  so anyway yeah i mean i think it's really unique he's just he's different and you know there is a form of that that other directors have you know uh james gunn is a tough director you know i mean i had a long stretch with james where we uh we definitely spent a lot of time together uh even socially and i worked on a bunch of shorts for him and a few you know i think four features with him um
• 49:29
  And you have to decide, man, what am I made of? Am I going to step up as hard as this person's going? Or am I just going to get beat up in the process and not nail this? You have to decide that you're going to lean into it. Because if you don't, you're going to get your ass kicked.
• 49:46
  but it makes you stronger. You know, you know more of who you are as a human being when you kind of pass those litmus tests in life. We can't guarantee that the people we're working with are going to love absolutely everything that we've created for their films, but hopefully they love it enough that they want to ask us back and that the process is healthy enough and good enough that I want to be back. Chad, you know, it's not casual, but...
• 50:15
  for some reason, once you get into it with him, he makes you want to run through a brick wall for him, you know? Uh, so it feels good to be engaged that way. You know what I mean? I think a lot of us just in life, we want to know what we're made of, you know, and we're challenged in our personal life and, uh, with our experiences, we're challenged, you know,
• 50:37
  in every which way, whether it's financially or in a career, if things aren't going the way you want them to go, you know, we learn what we're made of if we respond in a healthy fashion to all of these caveats that come our way in life. And I think the one thing about going through these experiences that are more visceral in this way and getting closer to knowing yourself and what you're about
• 51:06
  Because the people can't take that away from you. So when the next thing that goes wrong in your life, that seems like the kitchen's on fire, uh, happens, you know, you have the strength and the cool to deal with it. Because when you have the exposure that I do or other people, whether they're film composers, directors, rock stars, whatever it is, you're...
• 51:31
  you're not going to go through this career unscathed. It's just, it's impossible. So you try and do absolutely the best you can, the best work you can, keep your morals and your ethics as clean as you absolutely can. And, you know, hope for the best, but lead by doing the best work. And, you know, one thing, you know, Chad knows this of me now, but sometimes when things get a little crunchy,
• 51:56
  And I'll remind a director like, hey, don't worry, I will not break. I'm not going to falter. So let's go hard. I'm not going to fall apart on you. We'll get through this and we're going to finish strong. So sometimes people can sense when others...
• 52:18
  are reaching their limit and they don't think they can ask anymore. You know, I don't really want that to be the case with, with the director, you know, I'm not going to say, yeah, well I'll only do two revisions, you know, and I'm not like that. If it takes me shit, there was a sequence in guardians. One, I remember the one we recorded in the kiln escape, it was version 16 and you're talking a long sequence. Yeah.
• 52:45
  And it wasn't just a nip or a tuck. It's just, it's a lot. So you have to exhale and focus and engage the love that you have for your work, your craft, music, and just let that guide you through the next version of your next run at the objective. If you get too caught up in the negative, you're going to be defeated. You're going to be tired.
• 53:14
  And your work is going to suffer tremendously. So it's really important. Just like an athlete has to take on some pain in the weight room or on the playing field, you know, in order to become great, you know, you have to have that mentality that you can take it. Yeah.
• 53:30
  Not that we want it, but I could take it, you know? For sure, for sure. And going in then, because, I mean, one of my favourite scores of yours is your work on The Guardians films. And I guess that attitude of, like, no pain, no gain, like...
• 53:45
  Because that film, because like you say, you'd worked up with James Gunn on a few films up to that point. And I guess the first Guardians you could say was James is, I guess, in some ways, his mainstream, his big mainstream breakthrough. And I guess what was that film like to work on with him? And I guess what was the energy in the room? Was that sort of energy of like, OK, we're going to, you know, we're taking no prisoners of this film. Was that kind of the energy or what was that film like to work with?
• 54:06
  Well, it was, it was different than Slither and Super. Super was the second one that we had done together. And then I had done a number of shorts that were just like a fun side project for him. Um, obviously Guardians, because of the budget that he was working with was a massive step up. And, uh.
• 54:27
  I was happy for James when that, when he landed that job, um, because, and I was not necessarily thinking I was going to be asked to do it. I don't take that for granted, but I remember at some point after super came out, I, I had started working with a new agent. Um, and I, I told her that, you know, James Gunn, she was, we're going down my roster of people I work with. I said, James Gunn, he's going to be a big deal.
• 54:57
  And I remember she didn't really see it because super had made $322,000 worldwide at the box office. I'm like, I know this guy, you know, it's, it's going to happen for him. And so even still, when if even my first meeting at Marvel, uh, the preliminary meeting, you know,
• 55:18
  it felt like it was definitely going to be something, but there was no telling what the fate of this movie was truly going to become. But I know that because I had this time in front of the movie, now I can't write on a movie for nine months before my start date all the time. Yeah. I just don't have the time and I, and I need to earn money. So you don't get paid for that work, you know?
• 55:45
  But as friends and collaborators, of course, I was, I wanted to do that. I wanted to make sure we made, um, that the score was rich with emotion and recognizable themes that would really stand up to the writing. Uh, you know, James's writing, the cadence of his dialogue is, is pretty much unlike anyone else. It's naturally uncomfortable. Yeah.
• 56:11
  a little bit jerky in a way that evokes an emotion and also plays into his, his wit as comedy. So I wanted to have the time to see how we were going to address all these emotions in the, in the movie. And I'm grateful that I had that opportunity that he and I could curate that together and,
• 56:37
  those themes you know uh the initial themes of the movie all my first drafts of those themes are in the movie except for one thing we never it kind of felt detached from the subsequent themes i was writing so like you know there's the scene where his mom's dying in the hospital bed um
• 57:00
  It's exactly my demo, except blown out with a live orchestra. Um, the black tears sequence that's in that movie. That's the demo. Exactly. Um, wow.
• 57:16
  you know, the Guardians theme, I thought, and James thought going into production, that the Black Tears theme was the Guardians theme. We thought it. But then when he was done filming the movie, we realized it was too bittersweet. We needed something a little bit more almost victorious, but still with that...
• 57:39
  that big emotion that guardians has. And, uh, so he called me up. He says, yeah, dude. He said, um, this is, I remember it was a Saturday and I'm working on the movie.
• 57:50
  And he says, yeah, dude. He says, you know, I love everything we have. I just don't think we have the Guardians theme yet. And he says, I think Black Tears is just a little bit too bittersweet. He says, it's going to serve our movie well. But for the main Guardians theme, I think you need to just maybe take another look and see what you can come up with. So I was doing something on guitar at the time. So I just played two themes on guitar. Just...
• 58:19
  i i don't even know it might even have been a voice recording or something i just sent it to him i said hey how do either of these feel to you you know i was playing you know kind of root notes and then harmony so that he could feel in his mind what it could become and um
• 58:37
  Yeah. He says, that second one, that's it. That's the guardian's theme. I'm like, okay, cool. And then we blew it out. Obviously I blew out a big sketch into an orchestral, uh, passage and, and that took hold and, uh,
• 58:53
  It felt really good by the time we got to the finish line of that movie because Kevin Feige was extremely complimentary. At that time, he's told me a number of times that is the most recognizable theme in the MCU. So I thought that was cool.
• 59:11
  I mean, I'm not saying it still is because it's been years, but it was really nice to receive that compliment because I definitely bled out for that movie. You know, it was a lot of work, like, every day, but I was happy to do it, and it was a very spirited collaboration between James and I, and the end result was cool as far as what the music is. I would love to have had a little more time and resources to record the orchestra,
• 59:40
  with a bit more opportunity to have a maybe a third take of a cue we had so luckily my my good friend tim williams who's been working with me a long time and tim's an excellent composer in his own right um tim conducted he orchestrated and conducted uh that score and helped us blast through it because we really just we had to we had to kind of just get what we got so everything
• 1:00:10
  um wow yeah wow well you well you wouldn't be able to you wouldn't be able to tell by listening to it because it's so bravura and it's so like confident and it's full of energy and i mean one of my favorite cues from that score is i don't know if you'd be able to tell me a little bit about it but like the uh groot spores that beautiful little score that is just that you know it's quite short but in there but like it's just that and that and it soundtracks that beautiful sequence where groot lights up the uh you know the spaceship that the guardians are in
• 1:00:37
  a beautiful scene and beautiful score i mean what do you remember um what that score was like that piece of music that cute well absolutely because it's it's it's all major key which if you know my body of work over 30 plus years i don't do a ton of major key writing you know i'm
• 1:00:58
  I wouldn't call myself a dark person, but I definitely lean into the dark. And I think when I... It just kind of fell out of me. I think I must have done that cue in an hour or something. And I sent the sketch to James. And he loved it. And it's exactly my draft. Now, I'm saying that because many of them are not. Many of them went through these iterations that...
• 1:01:28
  that were like a spinning wheel at times. But that one just kind of came out of me. And I love the fact that the Guardians world, the essence of it opened me up to creating a piece of music like that. It felt beautiful. And that's really what we wanted to feel. It was just beauty. We weren't making any long term commentary other than we're just in this moment of discovery.
• 1:01:57
  And amidst everything that was happening in that movie for all of our characters at the time, it was a moment of beauty. And it was almost like a suspension of time. And, you know, obviously just on the backside of that queue, it gets pretty dark. But...
• 1:02:13
  uh, I don't know. I just thought what was, it was like a sense of wonderment. I was just thinking of that. And, you know, probably the movie that stuck with me from the time I was a kid that provided that feeling in a very clear manner was E.T.,
• 1:02:30
  but I never watched DT or any movie until I started scoring movies. I never watched a movie thinking of myself as ever doing a movie score. Um, I do know that when I saw Halloween, I related to it so much because probably cause it was electronic and the formal language of the orchestra was not
• 1:02:53
  it seemed more tangible to me, I guess, in a way is music that I could personally relate to. There's some, something rock and roll about it. And, um,
• 1:03:07
  and grainy and dark. And so, uh, I always related to that score. And of course, uh, you know, like tubular bells and the exorcist was amazing. You know, there's a theme in guardians of the galaxy too. Um, this is the father son theme, which is as Hollywood as it can get, you know, it's sweeping. It's, it's like a, uh, six, eight time signature, which is like a, a,
• 1:03:34
  dance you know ballet and it rolls that way and it's big and you know stated with french horns and you know honestly that was not something i'd done a lot of previously and i appreciate the opportunity to engage in assignments like that and see if i can thrive doing that and you know again if you come at it with love instead of um
• 1:03:59
  concern or resistance, it'll happen. You know, you just have to open yourself to it and really invite it into your soul. And then you, you can, you know, channel something and express something that is, is substantive and emotive and, and the way that one turned out, you know, that's what I really love about those two films, you know, the,
• 1:04:24
  here's an antidote guardians two there's a scene scene in the middle of the movie um
• 1:04:31
  I think it's called, I think the track might've become, I know who you are or something like that. And, um, and, uh, so Peter Quill's dad, you know, uh, puts his hand on him and you see like this light shoot out of him and it's like a four and a half minute sequence. And for the longest time, James kept telling me to avoid that sequence. They're still working on it. You know, something just hadn't totally come together yet. Yeah.
• 1:05:00
  So I remember, you know, when you're working on a Marvel movie, you go into Marvel to review the music, meaning I have no control over how it's presented to the executives and James and everyone. And the music editors mix it into the movie with dialogue and sound effects. And it's not exactly like I'm in my studio because say there is something that's kind of rubbing the wrong way in a sequence. If I'm in my studio, I can come up with a solution right then and there, show them.
• 1:05:27
  then we're good. If I'm not there, my cue might get thrown out because they don't understand what part of it's not feeling right. So anyway, it is very stressful to go in to those meetings and have your music presented and not have control over the presentation. So I told my music editor at some point, I felt we were, you know, we were deep into the process and it was kind of becoming a little sterile for me because it's all through email and, you know, in that room. So I said, look, man,
• 1:05:56
  schedule an extra 15 minutes on the back of our meeting. And if the meeting goes well, I'm going to play something to that sequence. I'm going to improvise something live to picture. So I brought in a couple of amplifiers and my guitar, viol and some pedals and a loop station. And,
• 1:06:15
  and so we were done with the meeting i said hold on everyone i said can you give me a few minutes and i said daryl will you pull up that sequence and james is kind of looking at me like what are you doing and so then i said you know i feel like i just i just want to play something and see what happens and you know i am kind of crazy that way i do take these risks because you know everything from the idea not working to me hitting the loop station at the wrong point it it's
• 1:06:43
  And having a bad note in there, just cycling around, it's going to totally, you know, work against my interest. So anyway, I'm like, all right, I'm just going to do something to this picture and see if I can advance our conversation about this. And so I remember I started playing and the music editor recorded what I was doing. Uh...
• 1:07:04
  And all of a sudden, I'm about two minutes into it. And James started jumping up and down on his chair. He said, this is not fair. You know, you know, he loved it. So actually I took that same recording the music editor provided me with. It was four and a half minutes and transcribed the whole thing.
• 1:07:25
  And that's in the movie. So it was, wow, it was awesome. But what it, what it did, it reminded everybody like, Hey, music is a living, breathing, emotive, responsive expression, you know, and we're all part of it. And I, what I wanted to do was really have everyone become part of the moment. The music was created. Yeah.
• 1:07:46
  That was my objective. It worked out in that case. I'm so grateful I didn't screw it up. I very well could have. But that was one of those moments I'm really proud of and proud of this. You know, sometimes you do have to shake it up a little bit just so that it isn't going to fail. Because everyone's so busy. It's like, yes, no. Yes, no. No, take another shot at that. You know? So I wanted to remind everybody that, you know, music is actually...
• 1:08:14
  this living, breathing expression. You know, it's not just, you know, programming a keyboard. So...
• 1:08:23
  Yeah, yeah, totally. That's fantastic. And it actually kind of leads me quite nicely onto a question I was curious to ask, which is like, is there, you know, because that piece of music you improvised essentially was for that specific sequence. I mean, is there a scene in one of the movies you've worked on, which you've been particularly proud of the music you've done for that scene or that sequence? Or is there a cue even that like you think of the cues you've done, you're particularly proud of like, oh, that piece of music there or, or that piece of music to that scene like that? Oh, that came together so well. Is there one of those for you?
• 1:08:53
  Yeah, I'm trying to think of the name. See, these cues always get renamed when they become a soundtrack, and sometimes they're combined, you know? Mm-hmm.
• 1:09:03
  There's a queue in Watchmen, and I think it's got to be like number 12 or 13 on the soundtrack. And it's really where, shoot, I should look up the name of it to tell you. But there's one in there that was really beautiful. It's like four and a half minutes long, and it spans the scope of so many different things. And it's where Rorschach is.
• 1:09:28
  his mind is basically blown at the end of the sequence. I'm spacing because it's been a hundred years. Is it the flashback? You know, when he's talking to the prison psychiatrist, is it that sequence? Oh, no, but I love that. Yeah, that's a great one. Well, you know, it's interesting about that. For whatever reason, my choice at the beginning of that is literally about...
• 1:09:55
  half a minute of just one held drought. Like I wanted us to not even be aware that there was music there and just to feel the gravity of the conversation as it started to unfurl. And then once we got into the visual flashbacks, that's when I started to build, um,
• 1:10:14
  the details and the music to reflect all the different shots and the, the, the characters. And unfortunately the instruments that we see on screen in that sequence. Um, that was really cool. Um, um,
• 1:10:31
  I love some of the stuff on the Killer Joe soundtrack because it's so gnarly and crusty. Like Devil Rejects, I would still put that in my top scores just because when I met Rob about the movie, I mean, I'd known him a little bit beforehand, but when I met him on that movie, he's like, we've like thrown 70 scores up against this picture. Nothing works. And it needs a lot of music.
• 1:10:56
  It needs to be primal. It needs to be effed up. And I don't know what it is. And so I, I asked him, I'm like, what's our timeline? He says, we have some time. I'm like, all right, I'm going to have to invent something. Like I don't, this sound can't be traditional in any way. Um, so yeah, Wolfie and I got together and did some more of our crazy experiments. And I remember, uh, the first time Rob came to my studio to listen to a piece of music and,
• 1:11:23
  And it was a very uncomfortable scene for me. It was in a motel room where there's a sexual assault that takes place with a gun and everything. And, you know, I'm pretty sensitive to things of that nature for sure. And the response musically to that scene was my just utter sick feeling about it.
• 1:11:48
  You know, I don't love violence. I hate it. So my reaction to any of the violent movies I've done, which seems to be a hell of a lot of them these days, is my visceral response. Not, oh, they'll like this, you know? It's like, no, this is like so unnerving. But when I played that sequence for Rob, you know, my back was to him. I'm at the keyboard. And then for three and a half minutes, I hit the space bar and stopped it. And I turn around, I look at him, I'm like,
• 1:12:19
  So what do you think? He's like, oh my God, I've never heard anything like that in my life. He said, it's incredible. He says, it's amazing. He says, my fans are going to love the hell out of this. He says, this is great. And, you know, not that I need attaboys, but, you know, Rob Blankton,
• 1:12:40
  You know, he's a very interesting artist, very interesting personality, and he's not one to dole out compliments to anybody very readily. And I knew, I felt that about him already. And I cared so much to try and crack the code for him on his movie. Yeah.
• 1:13:01
  And I felt not like it was an attaboy. It's like, yes, like as a teammate, as a partner in this, I wanted to help him really reach that feeling that he wanted the score to have. And so for me, that felt really, really fantastic. Something that's kind of interesting –
• 1:13:22
  uh, over the weekend I saw John Houlihan, music supervisor. We were, uh, at, uh, my good friend, uh, Jerry Cantrell's birthday party. Um, Jerry's legendary guitarist, uh, songwriter from Alice in Chains. And he and I are very close friends. We've toured together and all that stuff. And he always throws an amazing party with incredible people, but, uh,
• 1:13:47
  So anyway, Houlihan came over here first and then we walked over to Jerry's house because he lives very close to me. And we're talking and I'm like, hey, man, I'm like, do you still have that footage from Deadpool 2? He says, I do. So what happened in the story behind Deadpool 2 and me getting the parental advisory tag on the soundtrack.
• 1:14:07
  was David Leach, you know, was new to like doing a film with an orchestra. Like that was his first orchestral score and first one with the choir. And so he came into my choir session one day and he was like really taken aback by it. Cause the first time you walk into a session like that, it's pretty, pretty intense, you know, just to hear all those voices harmonizing together and singing together. It's really beautiful.
• 1:14:36
  And he's like, wow. He says, so, so cool. He says, what are they singing? I'm like, well, for now, they're singing this phonetic, like faux Latin song.
• 1:14:46
  language that I created just to get the right feeling for like a consonant sound and the vowel sounds and the melody and everything. I said, however, if you're inspired, they're going to take a break in about 10 minutes. So here's a pen and paper if you want to write some lyrics. And so he said, I can do that. I'm like, yeah. I said, when they come back from break, we'll go out there and we'll work with them.
• 1:15:08
  And it's cool. So I said, just pay mind to the cadence of what they're singing. And you could replace those sounds with words. So he did. They came back from break. And so John Hulan was with us. And so he and David and I walked out. And we were working with Sally Stevens, the choir contractor. And she's an amazing person. And she is very serious. Lovely, but very serious.
• 1:15:38
  And so I told her what we were doing. She says, okay, well, that's wonderful. She had no idea what was coming. And that's when we got into the holy shitballs, you can't stop this motherfucker, all that. And so the funniest thing is John Huon is filming all this and as Sally and myself are working with the choir, at one point she says,
• 1:16:05
  So, men, I would like you to sing, fuck, you know, but she's like, you know, so straight, you know, and then she was, you know, she was sort of calculating the cadence and the syllables of the words. She's like, oh, holy shit. Oh, that works out just perfectly. That's wonderful. So we actually recorded it. And...
• 1:16:29
  And members of that choir who I didn't know personally would see me at events over the course of the subsequent months and they would come up to me. All of them were like, that was the most fun I ever had at a session in my life. That was so fun. And it was unexpected because they didn't know what was going to happen until the moment it did.
• 1:16:59
  I like to do it because I want it to feel very much connected to them. It's their telling of the story, whether they wrote the film or not. And Dave is a very witty guy. It's let alone Ryan Reynolds was just so hilarious. I mean, as his writing is spectacular and with the character Deadpool. So that was really cool. And I'm really glad that that worked out. You know, I'm,
• 1:17:23
  I guess if I had just not said anything, we would have just ended up with the original approach to the choir. But instead, I think we ended up with something that ended up being kind of a fun little trinket in our pop culture world here.
• 1:17:38
  A nice little sort of, I guess you could say, sort of like filthy part of the filthy Deadpool universe. If you like, you know, there's a nice little nugget in there. Well, it's cool that it was spontaneous, you know. And I think because of that, there was an irreverence that came to even just the expression that the choir gave it. That wouldn't have happened had they read that on the page when they showed up for the session.
• 1:18:04
  It was being written out as we were talking to them. So it was very cool. Obviously, they followed the same music, but they were writing in the words as Dave was dictating. And then we were all working out the cadence, and it all just came together. So it was cool. And, you know, you really, looking back...
• 1:18:26
  You love those moments. The Watchmen queue is called Just Look Around You, I think. Something like that. Ah. Yeah. Yeah, my friend Lisa Papineau, who used to be the singer of my band Pet in the 90s, she sang on it. And...
• 1:18:41
  I guess I probably should one day remix that and mix her voice up louder because she's such a brilliant artist. Her voice in the whole score really gives it something different than what a session singer would have done for it.
• 1:18:59
  And I'd look for that a lot. My scores, I have a lot of unconventional people performing in them because I relate to them. Because I'd still, at the end of the day, when I see myself in the mirror, I'm a guitarist, you know. I mean, I know what I do for a living and all. But I've always identified with it. And I have a million guitars I'm in love with with that and pedals and amplifiers and all the stuff that people are using plugins for now.
• 1:19:28
  old school you know i like the noise and the recordings all that um but anyway you know it's it's it's it's strange that i find myself this far into my life and my journey um because i feel like i'm 25 and i look back and i've had so many incredible experiences and so many uh difficult and challenging ones as well but they've
• 1:19:50
  helped me become who I am and I can recognize that, you know, in my past, uh, leading up to now. And I am really grateful for all the experiences, the opportunities I've had to learn, um, more about life and people and about myself and my craft. Um, it's, it's really interesting looking back on all of it and, um,
• 1:20:15
  You know, I don't know when I'm going to kick the bucket, but it won't be without having lived an interesting life. You know, I've been very fortunate to do some things that I never thought imaginable. I never imagined doable, possible, tripping on words. So, yeah. Yeah.
• 1:20:39
  Yeah, I mean, what more can one hope for? I mean, I feel like that's a lovely note to wrap up on. I mean, one last question, which we asked a lot of our guests on Half the Picture, all our guests, is, so you've worked with some incredible, you know, I mean, some of the people we've been talking about that you've worked with, like James Gunn, of course, and Zack Snyder and William Freakin. I mean, so many, you know, Thai West, so many great people. You've done so much fantastic work with them across your career and the risks that you've taken.
• 1:21:06
  I mean, is there anyone out there right now that you're a fan of who you haven't worked with before, who you would love to? Like if you have like a dream collaboration, I guess, who you're a fan of. There definitely are. But since we're winding down, I have to just mention this. I was lucky enough to get an 11th hour call from the RZA from Wu-Tang Clan for his movie that's coming out May 1st. It's called One Spoon of Chocolate. And it's under Tarantino's banner.
• 1:21:36
  And so I got to work with Bobby Rizza on this score. One of the absolute coolest, most talented, finest human beings I've met in the business and outside of the business. This guy lifts everybody around him.
• 1:21:54
  He's just, it's his natural thing. And if you know the story of Wu-Tang Clan, that's what he does. You see them in concert. That's what he does. He's just an incredible leader and he shines a light on everybody around him and celebrates their talent. He's not the guy who has to have the light on him all the time. But we got together and did this score. It's very primal, but there's also some old school...
• 1:22:16
  style orchestral moments in the film too, uh, that are, are his. Um, I'm really proud of doing that. That score came together in like two weeks. We had no time and it was, it was great fun working with him. And then like a crazy person, um, my good friend, Robert Carranza, who's a, uh, an engineer producer, um, that has worked with me on a million things. He's, he's literally like my, my brother in this life.
• 1:22:45
  And we started a record company at the beginning of this year. And we have an incredible slate this year of releases, all very diverse things. But it just so happened that one spoon of chocolate is coming out May 1st and there was no soundtrack. And so I'm like...
• 1:23:00
  why don't we release it and so it will be the first thing released on my label gravel and echo recordings um and um that comes out may 1st and we're doing uh like limited edition 180 gram vinyl
• 1:23:16
  but I'm really proud of the movie. It's very intense. It will definitely challenge your values. Uh, you will know yourself better as a human being after you watch that film. And I think it's, it's incredible in doing that. Um, and again, it's made by an incredible guy with an incredible team of people around him. Everyone I've ever met through him is just fantastic and also very, very dedicated to their craft. So that's really, really great. But, um,
• 1:23:45
  You know, I mean, right now I am tasked with a film I'm on with one of my longtime collaborators, and I'm focused on that. And I'm really proud of the work we're doing in television. I love the people I work with on Tracker and Criminal Minds. They're fun shows.
• 1:24:04
  and it's such a group like a band you know everybody is so in it together uh we want to support each other's success and celebrate uh the opportunity we have each week to do another episode of these shows that people are enjoying so much out there in the world and i'm very much looking forward to uh the next project with gandhi tartakovsky
• 1:24:27
  Um, amazing, amazing human being and just a brilliant, brilliant guy. Um, you gotta understand like doing primal with him, no dialogue and the storytelling and emotion is so complete. He's inspired me so much as an artist to delve deeper into my own creations for my personal work. Um, just by seeing how he works and every time we work together, it just feels like it's us.
• 1:24:57
  there's never the specter of, you know, the big studio behind it. And, um, and it's really led to a very spirited collaborative, the collaboration and friendship between us. So I, I'm just, you know, I don't plan too far ahead. I don't think that I should be chosen for every dance. So while there are people I would love to work with, I'm not really one to state that publicly. Um,
• 1:25:24
  as though I deserve to work with them or as though they want to work with me. But I would, you know, there are definitely several, uh, people out there that I think are just amazing. And if ever it made sense for us to work together, I would certainly welcome the opportunity.
• 1:25:40
  For sure. And wow, I mean, you've got some incredible stuff coming out. I mean, just some of those things that you've reeled off. It sounds fantastic. I mean, and also I know you're back with Chad, right? Working on Highlander. That's another project coming out down the pipe. We'll see. You know, I don't cash checks that aren't written. You know, Chad and I have been talking about Highlander since 2015 when he first showed me his 3D models. And then I did a mock-up for him. I took a Queen song and
• 1:26:09
  Keeping the song in the middle of it, I made it a big, more contemporary sounding piece, kind of as a proof of concept, to help him develop the property further and to work toward getting it greenlit.
• 1:26:24
  Um, they're in the middle of filming it right now. Uh, if first, if Chad calls me, I'm there, you know, I would love the opportunity to do that, to work with those classic songs and, and see where they can go in the context of an orchestra and storytelling and obviously to produce the
• 1:26:46
  you know, that type of music would be, uh, I'm sure a very, very high point in my life. But, um, again, you know, I, I only want the best for everybody that I have worked with and am working with, and I don't take anything for granted. So if it comes my way, I know it was announced and that's probably why you're asking me because the trades said I'm doing it, but, um,
• 1:27:09
  You know, we're not we're not there yet. And if it happens, I will be thrilled. But right now I keep my focus on the tasks at hand. I have a lot on my plate and I want to just make sure I do justice to all of that.
• 1:27:22
  For sure. Absolutely. Well, what can I say, Tyler, this has been such a pleasure just listening to you take us down through, you know, these different annals of your career and your work. And, you know, as I say, I'm a big fan of yours. And this was just such a pleasure. So thank you so much for coming on off the picture. Yeah, this was this was a lot of fun. Absolutely. Thanks for having me on. It's a true honor.
• 1:27:49
  Hey everyone, thanks so much for listening to my chat with Tyler Bates. Remember to like and subscribe to the podcast so you never miss an episode. And check out our YouTube memberships where you can watch the full Unca version of my conversation with Tyler with 15 more minutes of extra chat. Stay tuned for more exciting interviews and guests coming soon on Half the Picture.