Latest / The BioHub - by Avetix / Episode 131 - Dipal Doshi - CEO of Entrada Therapeutics

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Episode 131 - Dipal Doshi - CEO of Entrada Therapeutics · The BioHub - by Avetix

0:06
So welcome back to the episode of the Biohub.
0:08
Today, we're delighted to welcome on Deepal Doshi, who's
0:11
the CEO of Entrada Therapeutics, where he's led the company from
0:15
its early days into a publicly traded clinical stage biotech
0:19
focused on unlocking intracellular therapeutics.
0:22
Before in Chada, Depal served as Chief Business Officer, Amicus
0:26
Therapeutics, where he played a key role in strategic growth
0:30
partnerships and corporate development in the rare diseases
0:32
space. And earlier in his career, he
0:35
held leadership positions in investment banking and corporate
0:38
development. So join us today as we'll talk
0:41
through what some of the challenges of building Entrada
0:43
were in the earlier days, the next major milestones for
0:47
Entrada over the next 12 to 24 months, and maintaining culture
0:51
as Entrada looks to scale. So, Deepal, thanks so much for
0:54
coming on. How are you?
0:56
I'm doing well. Thanks for having me, Tom.
0:58
Yeah, look, it's a, it's a pleasure and let yeah, let's
1:02
jump into it. So can you just give us a bit of
1:04
a run through your journey through the field?
1:06
What initially drew you towards biotech and drug development in
1:09
particular? And were there any pivotal
1:11
moments or mentors that that shaped your path?
1:16
Yeah I'm happy to do it. My my my path has been non
1:20
linear. I think it's probably the best
1:22
way to describe it. So I would really use 2 words to
1:27
describe that path. 1 is curiosity and 2nd is probably
1:31
tenacity or, or focus or drive, right?
1:35
And so I, you know, I, I went to, I went to college, I was a
1:40
liberal arts major. I'd love to read as a kid.
1:44
I'd love to ask questions as, as a kid and then as a young adult.
1:48
I just needed some answers. I think in, in a lot of ways,
1:52
but I think a lot of that was curiosity.
1:54
And when I, when it was time to come to get a job, you know, out
1:58
of, out of university, I had to decide what to do.
2:01
And as a liberal arts major, it was a little bit more
2:04
challenging. I think it's probably the best
2:06
way to describe it. And I was fortunate enough to
2:08
get a job at a, as a pharmaceutical sales
2:11
representative at Eli Lilly, which is one of the companies
2:13
that I admire so much 2527 years later.
2:19
And the reason why I took that job was it was a, it was
2:23
another, it was another advance in curiosity, right?
2:26
I didn't know anything about drugs.
2:28
I didn't know anything about the diseases Lily was looking at.
2:32
It was a challenge, right? It was a challenge to to walk
2:35
into a doctor's office in Manhattan and try to, you know,
2:39
convince someone who's, you know, further educated than
2:43
myself to be able to see the, the merits of using drug A
2:48
versus drug B. And I view that fundamentally as
2:52
a challenge, right? I also view that as building up
2:55
my own resilience, having some doors shut on me, not being able
2:58
to get access to certain folks. And so I think it continued my
3:02
journey within that word curiosity and really built up a
3:05
lot of resilience along the way. But, you know, I left there,
3:10
went to a consulting firm, did that for a couple years, went
3:13
back to Lily, worked in their marketing group, but also did a
3:16
little bit of venture capital work for them as well.
3:18
And what this started to do when I got into my mid 20s was, was
3:22
be able to understand where I wanted to focus the better part
3:26
of my career. And, you know, I, I don't like
3:29
the question asking a, you know, 2021 year old, you know, young
3:33
person, where do you want to be in five or seven years, right?
3:36
Like, I think it's the journey that's going to lead you to
3:39
where you want to be. I was fortunate enough to go
3:41
back to Business School once again, a pretty non traditional
3:45
Wharton MBA in that I had a bunch of other types of
3:49
experiences. And I did go into investment
3:52
banking. Realized pretty quickly that
3:53
wasn't, you know, my my foray, but but or my skill set.
3:58
And but that took me into another journey, which was I had
4:02
a family then, right? I had a young child, my, my
4:05
daughter was born and I viewed life a little bit differently.
4:10
And we had some, we had some challenges with, with her birth.
4:14
And it led me to the, you know, the, the, the realization that,
4:18
you know, which is common sense, but we're all fragile.
4:21
And now at this point, I've started to have more exposure
4:24
to, you know, larger groups of people.
4:27
You know, I, I got myself involved in some, in some
4:31
patient groups, things like that.
4:33
And I saw that, you know, something that sticks with me is
4:36
that we're, we're all one mutation away from having one of
4:38
these very, very difficult diseases.
4:41
And that led me to an understanding of how drugs were
4:44
made. I went to what is now called
4:45
Catalent or part of Novo as well.
4:48
I learned how drugs were made. And then after a, a stint in
4:52
private equity, I was fortunate enough to get introduced to
4:55
Amicus Therapeutics and, and, and specifically John Crowley,
4:57
who has been a, a very close friend of mine for, for a long
5:01
time. And I learned a lot from John.
5:04
And what I learned the most from John was really kind of
5:06
unlocking that patient focus that I already had within me.
5:11
But watching him do it and, you know, being alongside him and,
5:15
and, and a fantastic leadership team, You know, my job, my day
5:19
job was to help build the company into whatever wanted to
5:21
be next. But I also really took a lot of
5:25
a lot of learnings from, from patient focus and realizing that
5:30
it's that it's OK to be emotional about, you know,
5:34
diseases and having this exposure to rare monogenic
5:38
diseases that Amicus was focused on.
5:39
But also expanding that aperture and looking at other diseases
5:43
in, in, in CNS, but also in muscle and other muscle
5:46
diseases. And that takes us to Entrada was
5:49
something that I was something that I, you know, fully brought
5:52
on to Entrada back in, in when I started back in goodness 2017 as
5:57
employee number one. And so by the time I got to
6:01
Entrada, I had a tremendous amount of experience within a
6:04
diverse area set, right? So I was a sales Rep, I did
6:07
marketing, I did investment banking, I did VCI, did private
6:11
equity. I learned how drugs were made.
6:14
I, you know, was a senior leader at a, at a publicly traded
6:17
company. And now I, what I wanted to do
6:20
is test myself, right? Use all that curiosity, use all
6:24
that tenacity, use all that learning and say, can I do this
6:27
as well? Can I build a team?
6:28
Can I build a strategic focus and and what not?
6:31
Do I need to look 5, seven years or can I be OK with looking a
6:34
couple years ahead? You know, I'm happy to say that
6:37
I partnered with a fantastic venture fund early days.
6:41
And I think the most important thing was hiring on our
6:45
President of research and development, a gentleman by the
6:47
name of Natarajan Seth Ramen, who is kind of like the the
6:51
mirror of me, but on from a science side.
6:54
And the two of us really kind of combined forces and with the
6:57
help of a lot of people, you know, built in Trata into what
7:00
it is today, which is a, a company that's not only focused
7:04
on intracellular therapeutics, but focused on specific diseases
7:08
like Duchenne muscular dystrophy, myotonic dystrophy
7:10
type 1 and now focused on some ocular diseases as well too.
7:15
So that we could take what we believe is a huge opportunity
7:20
and hopefully try to present that and and and get some drugs
7:23
approved for the patients who so desperately need them.
7:26
Yeah, amazing. Just to delve in a little bit
7:29
more into Intrada and just for those that are less familiar
7:32
with the company, can you just describe a high level what the
7:35
company does and the problem is set out to solve and how is the
7:39
company's strategy or focus evolved over time as the
7:43
platforms got more mature? The the company started as a
7:46
platform company and the whole concept was to, to, to, to, to
7:50
essentially deliver drugs inside the cell.
7:53
So if you take a step back, most diseases are intracellular in
7:57
nature. Something like 75% of diseases
8:00
are all intracellular. And when we started looking at
8:03
this challenge, right, to say how do you get into the cell,
8:07
not outside the cell, right? How do you get intracellularly,
8:10
not extracellularly, we started to say, OK, well, you need a
8:14
better delivery vehicle and, and that's where we started to
8:17
really kind of refine where we were going to go.
8:20
So the problem was this big, but you know, money is not fine if
8:24
money is not infinite obviously, and you need to have a focus as
8:27
as a company. But when you start with the big
8:29
problem of how do I access the cell, then it like leads you to
8:33
what diseases you're looking at, right?
8:35
And so for the first couple years, we were really just
8:37
trying to fundamentally solve the issue of, of intracellular
8:41
delivery and we focused on rare monogenic diseases.
8:44
There's a lot of diseases that we looked at, but ultimately we
8:47
said, all right, what do we want to do?
8:49
And the company really wants to be an RNA based intracellular
8:52
therapeutics company. And so that led us to looking at
8:56
Duchenne muscular dystrophy, which is a, a, a rare monogenic
9:01
muscular disorder where the, the, the body doesn't make a
9:06
certain protein or has a difficulty making a certain
9:09
protein called dystrophin. And without dystrophin, the
9:12
muscles fatigue. And when I say muscles, I'm not
9:14
only skeletal muscles like your, your, your biceps or, or, or
9:19
your, or your quads or what not, but also, you know, the cardiac
9:23
muscle. And what we realized was we had
9:26
the ability to get to that muscle efficiently, right, in a
9:30
diverse set of muscles. And if we could do that, we
9:32
could perhaps change the course of this disease.
9:35
And so that led us to this journey within DMD.
9:38
And DMD also has a lot of other, you know, diseases that are
9:42
associated with it, too, under this huge umbrella of muscular
9:46
dystrophy. And another disease is myotonic
9:48
dystrophy type one or otherwise known as DM one.
9:52
But it first started with how do you get into the muscle?
9:55
And that's what we started to figure out.
9:57
And then it allowed us to say, all right, what diseases have a
10:00
profound unmet clinical need? DMD is certainly one of those.
10:04
Even today, you know, several years later, the need for DMD is
10:07
probably higher now than it was five years ago.
10:11
And it allowed us to be able to put together a strategy that
10:14
said we're going to go after initial stages of the company,
10:18
these muscle diseases, right? We want to be able to develop a
10:21
therapy that is flexible, that allows us to target the the
10:25
muscle that allows us to really hopefully increase the quality
10:29
of life for these young men who become young boys, who become
10:32
young men. If we can do that, that is in
10:35
itself a huge success. What we've been able to do over
10:38
the course of the past couple years is go after this is an
10:43
Exxon skipping type of approach, right?
10:45
So think about a train that's missing a a specific, you know,
10:49
what are they called like compartment or what not, right.
10:52
So you skip it over and then you can tie them back together.
10:56
What we've been able to do is look at this from a bunch of
10:58
different Exxon we're in. We'll talk more about that, I'm
11:01
sure as well. And we're well on our way.
11:04
We're in the clinic, you know, we, we have data coming out this
11:07
year, but what it allowed us to do was to go back and say, all
11:11
right, we think we got a great strategy with muscle diseases
11:15
for D, for D&D, Our DM1 program is partnered with Virtex, you
11:19
know, arguably one of the, the top R, if not the best R&D
11:23
company in the world. What else can we do here, right?
11:27
And so late last year, we unveiled our, our ocular
11:31
diseases as well too, Once again, following that same type
11:35
of logic. Is it or high unmet clinical
11:37
need, can we potentially move the needle within those
11:40
diseases? And if so, can we capital, can
11:43
we efficiently deploy capital to be able to move that to move
11:47
those forward? So today, I'm proud to say that,
11:50
you know, 2026 is going to be a hugely inflective year for us.
11:53
We have readouts in, in DMD starting in the second quarter,
11:58
then the middle of the year, then the end of the year.
12:00
Our partner program with Vertex, you know, should, should finish
12:03
their enrollment and dosing in the middle of this year.
12:06
So a very, very important year that has taken 9 years to get
12:10
to. Yeah, for sure.
12:12
And I'm sure we'll get into the pipeline and the milestones that
12:14
you're looking forward to, to, to later on.
12:16
But just looking back, like what were some of the challenges in
12:19
trying to scale in Entrada from an early stage company to where
12:23
it is today? Like just talk us through that
12:25
journey of of yeah, when you first went out to to now.
12:28
The, the problem with having the challenge with having a platform
12:31
company is that the opportunity becomes a challenge.
12:35
You can do so many different things or you believe you can do
12:38
so many different things, right? As we, as we know, we've talked
12:41
about drug discovery and drug development is very expensive.
12:45
So you can't do it all, right? No company can do it all, right.
12:48
You see big pharma out licensing programs because they don't have
12:52
the amount of capital to be able to take forward everything.
12:54
But it starts first and foremost with a strategy.
12:57
And for us, the 1st, you know, 18 months to almost two years,
13:01
we are well capitalized to figure out what we wanted to be
13:04
when we grew up. And, you know, we were able to
13:06
go forward, make advances and then take those advances and
13:12
apply them to something else. Also the setbacks.
13:14
There's a lot of setbacks. And for us, what it allowed,
13:18
what allowed us to go through all of this was A-Team that's
13:22
tenacious, A-Team that's curious.
13:24
And a board that was an, an investor syndicates that were
13:26
very supportive. They saw the longer picture
13:29
here, right? Or the bigger picture.
13:31
And I think for us, you know, sitting in, there's so many, so
13:36
many examples of just sitting in front of a whiteboard with, with
13:39
our president of R&D and our, our COO and, and the team and
13:43
the board members just trying to map out what diseases we should
13:47
go after. Ultimately, you have to have a
13:50
strategy and a focus, right? Ultimately you have to, you have
13:53
to plant that flag down and say, I'm going after this.
13:56
What I'm proud to say is that we, we, we spent a lot of time
14:02
with a lot of different mice and we spent a lot of time trying to
14:06
solve problems, right? And the team led by Natarajan
14:10
spent a lot of time not taking shortcuts.
14:13
That's the other thing. You can't take shortcuts in drug
14:15
discovery, drug development. They will come back to bite you.
14:18
So there has to be this balance between being patient and also
14:23
taking risks. But you got to balance that out.
14:25
You're the only way you're going to balance that out is is
14:27
usually through experience. But really what it LED us to do
14:31
was we focused on a disease called Mingy, which is a
14:34
mitochondrial disease. We decided that we had a really
14:38
good opportunity there, but the opportunity wasn't big enough.
14:41
And then COVID hit. So we partnered that program
14:44
out. Then we started looking at other
14:46
rare diseases and that really LED us to DMD.
14:48
We thought about looking at CNS diseases.
14:51
We thought about looking at kidney diseases.
14:53
We thought about, and we're still looking at all these, but
14:55
it starts with planting that flag based upon data, right?
14:59
And DMD LED us to that data. But the challenges there, Tom,
15:03
were really trying to stay disciplined and stay focused on
15:08
what it is that you're going to do.
15:09
What do you see yourself doing now?
15:12
You can ask the question, where do you see yourself in five
15:14
years? And when we sat there late at
15:16
night in our offices in Boston, we said we are going to go after
15:20
DMD and we're going to go after DM1.
15:23
If we can succeed in those two diseases, we can then open up
15:27
the aperture and go after a bunch of other diseases.
15:29
But that focus was driven by data, was driven by a couple
15:34
leaps of faith and then absolutely conviction, and then
15:39
a plan that allowed us to go forward with haste, I guess is
15:46
probably the best way to describe it.
15:47
Nice. Just at a very high level, can
15:50
you just talk us through talks through the EV platform and the
15:53
scientific insight that underpins it And what would you
15:57
say some of the limitations in some of the existing therapeutic
16:00
approaches that In Charge is trying to overcome?
16:03
It's a. Good question.
16:04
So I'll start. I'll focus this on DMD.
16:07
And so the company was really formed on the basis of a
16:12
delivery mechanism and and they are a family of cyclic cell
16:16
penetrating peptides or CPPS. We renamed them endosomal escape
16:21
vehicles or EE VS. And the reason why we renamed
16:24
them to EEV was that was really the characteristics of of the
16:28
delivery mechanism. So if you take a step back, you
16:30
know, getting into the cell itself is not an easy thing to
16:33
do, right without disrupting the cell membrane.
16:36
So the ability to get into the cell and then get into something
16:40
called the endosome, right? And what happens in the endosome
16:43
is that one of one of a bunch of things can happen, right?
16:46
But the key is if you have a therapeutic, you want to be able
16:49
to escape the early endosome, right?
16:51
And so that you can get out because if you don't, you're
16:53
likely going to get traffic to the lysosome, which is the,
16:57
which is the cells or the body or well, the cells garbage truck
17:01
where it breaks things down, right?
17:03
And So what we found with these EE VS was the inability to get
17:07
the ability, sorry, was the ability to get out of the early
17:10
endosome and then target them to wherever we wanted them to go,
17:13
in this case, the muscle, right? And so that was step one,
17:16
getting into the step one is getting into the cell.
17:19
Step 2 is getting out of the early endosome.
17:21
And what we saw was the ability to get out of the early endosome
17:24
with a tremendous amount of drug.
17:27
And that's key as well, too, right?
17:29
Because if you get into something and then only 5%
17:32
escapes, well, then you've diluted it down a lot, right?
17:35
But we were able to show orders of magnitude higher than that,
17:39
which which was really, really important for us.
17:41
And so these E EVs really are focused on neuromuscular
17:45
diseases that they, we, we've found that they have a profound
17:48
effect within a family of neuromuscular diseases, right?
17:52
So obviously DMDD, M1 and, and a few others.
17:56
And so we've written that, right.
17:57
We have taken that we, our teams have our, our fantastic
18:01
chemists, protein engineers, conjugate conjugation people.
18:05
So what we do is we take these EE VS and we conjugate them to
18:09
an oligonucleotide and that itself is the therapeutic.
18:12
So the EEV, the linker and then the oligonucleotide that becomes
18:16
the therapeutic and that allows us to get to the muscle for DMD
18:20
and for DM1. What we've been, what we've seen
18:23
in DMD is the inability to do that efficiently, right.
18:28
So where we can actually get to the muscle at low doses and high
18:32
concentrations, standard of care disease therapeutics cannot do
18:36
that. So what we instead see is we see
18:38
the body inundated with drug high doses delivered weekly,
18:45
which creates a, a bit of a issue for the body, of course,
18:49
right from a side effect profile.
18:51
But it also isn't working well because the amount of drug
18:54
that's getting to the, to the muscle is also very low.
18:58
And then ultimately for DMD, what you want to do is create
19:00
dystrophin, right? Dystrophin allows you then
19:03
hopefully to build those tighter fibers for the muscle, right?
19:07
And and slow down the disease. We haven't really seen that
19:10
either, right. So the limitations are not the
19:15
limitations are high dose and low efficiency to the muscle and
19:19
then low dystrophin production and then ultimately low
19:22
functional benefit, right? Those were the challenges that
19:25
we believe we are now overcoming, right.
19:28
So we are in the clinic today on our, we're focused on our Exxon
19:32
44 program or Exxon 45 program, which are both in the clinic.
19:37
And what we are hopeful that they will show is not only the
19:40
the the ability to get into the sell out of the endosome, but
19:44
dystrophin production. So standard of care for Exxon 45
19:49
is maybe 1% dystrophin production.
19:51
We believe that we can beat that standard of there is no standard
19:55
of care for the Exxon 44 program because there's no approved
19:58
treatments for that specific Exxon.
20:02
But a competitor has kind of laid down that benchmark and
20:05
they've done a nice job of being able to get district production,
20:08
you know, higher, right. Our aim based upon all the data
20:11
that we presented is by the end of the year, our district
20:14
production will be higher than theirs, right?
20:16
So, you know, the competitiveness of DMD is
20:18
actually a good thing, right? It forces us to be able to say
20:21
actually, and forces every company to look.
20:24
Squarely in the mirror and say I could beat this or I cannot.
20:28
But the end goal here is a competitive landscape that
20:31
allows us all to to focus on what's really important, which
20:35
is obviously the patient, right? But that's the EEV delivery
20:38
mechanism specifically for for for DMD.
20:42
Nice. Yeah.
20:43
And just on that and probably question more of curiosity, but
20:46
who are the companies that are doing sort of similar work?
20:49
And I never like to use the word competitors because ultimately
20:51
what you do in it is for patients, right?
20:52
But who are those companies? That's correct.
20:54
Yeah. Similar sorts who are in that
20:57
similar space to you guys? Sure.
20:59
Yeah. So I would say first generation
21:01
companies that, you know, got drugs approved, you know, a
21:05
decade ago, or companies like Serepta, right?
21:07
And, and, and Serepta then, you know, has, has proceeded to to
21:11
get their gene therapy Elevatus approved as well too.
21:16
We can certainly come back to that.
21:17
But that's, that's one of the current companies that has a a
21:21
very specific focus on DMD all be at the challenges that that
21:24
they've had over the past couple years.
21:27
Emerging companies that are also focused on air companies like
21:31
Avidity, which you know, was announced that Novartis was
21:34
buying them for, for, you know, $12 billion, right?
21:37
They take a different approach. They take an antibody drug
21:40
conjugate approach to to the disease.
21:42
They're also looking at other diseases.
21:44
Well, to Dyne Therapeutics is taking a similar approach than
21:48
that that Avidity's taking as well too, albeit there are some
21:52
limitations within those approaches as well.
21:55
Those are just some of them, right?
21:57
There are also smaller companies, right?
22:00
I think the other way to look at it, Tom, is what modalities are
22:02
people are, are companies using, right?
22:04
So they're using oligonucleotides like we are,
22:07
RNA delivery like we are. People are looking at gene
22:10
therapy, which has had its setbacks.
22:12
Companies are still looking at gene editing, which is if gene
22:15
therapy has a set back, gene editing has a further set back
22:18
as well. Importantly, just just tying
22:21
together what you said, you got to go after these diseases with
22:25
multiple, multiple tries, multiple modalities as well.
22:29
Because at the end of the day, it is clear, right?
22:31
We, we have to get diseases or we have to get treatments that
22:34
work for these patients. And so we're fortunate to be in
22:38
the position to to have an opportunity to go after these
22:41
diseases and start to share those data once again in the
22:44
second quarter of this year all the way through the end of this
22:47
year. Yeah, for sure.
22:49
When you look at the existing pipeline at the moment, what are
22:52
you most excited about both like on the stuff that's on the
22:55
preclinical side and stuff that's already in the clinic?
22:58
Like what are you most excited about with with the current
23:01
pipeline? I, I, I, I spend, I try to spend
23:03
a fair amount of time being reflective and learning from,
23:07
from the past. You know, Entrada today is,
23:11
it's, it's based in Boston. There's 160 plus people at the
23:13
company. It's interesting walking into
23:18
Boston, into our Boston office and, and meeting people who I
23:21
don't know, right? And cuz we are, we are obviously
23:24
growing. And I think one of the most
23:28
amazing things is looking at that progression throughout,
23:32
throughout the years, right? Looking at when Natarajan, our
23:37
President of R&D called me and said, Hey, we can get to the
23:39
muscle in a mouse, right? And years ago.
23:44
And you know, the the amount of enthusiasm and like high fives
23:48
and and things like that, which were fantastic because that was
23:51
step one in that journey. What I look forward to the most
23:57
is we have so much preclinical data and we have a healthy
24:02
normal volunteer study that we ran in the UK for ADMD.
24:06
All of these are de risking, you know, to the ultimate goal,
24:09
which is to show an effect in patients.
24:12
We had a, we had a meeting we had with the, we didn't have a
24:15
meeting, but the output of a something called the data modern
24:18
monitoring committee, which is essentially a safety committee
24:21
for our 44 program, which looked at all the first cohort of data
24:25
from a safety perspective and gave us the the thumbs up to go
24:28
to that next dose that happened a couple weeks ago.
24:31
That was a fantastic de risking then for us.
24:34
And once again leads us to really what I'm looking forward
24:37
to the most is the unveiling of these data in the in the clinic.
24:40
I think it's, you know, we're in when rare disease month as well
24:44
too, and their week. And, and I think that even
24:48
becomes even more important, right thinking about the
24:52
patients, right, thinking about all the setbacks and advances
24:57
that the patient communities have had within DMD over the
25:01
past several years. I am fortunate in my role to
25:05
meet a lot of the patients, a lot of the kids, young men, the
25:08
parents, the caretakers. We have pictures of, of patients
25:13
all through you can go to our website and those are all there.
25:15
Those are, those are all kids that have the diseases.
25:19
But it's really, I look forward to getting that call and saying
25:24
this is what the data looks like because we don't know.
25:26
It's a double blinded study. I think I, I mean, we have a lot
25:31
of, I get a little, I get a not emotional, but I get maybe it is
25:35
emotional about this. Like it is such a big deal for
25:39
us. Everyone looks at stock price,
25:42
market cap, things like that. That all will come, right?
25:46
If you follow the journey of the patient and if you're able to
25:51
craft a therapeutic that can help that patient and be
25:57
flexible to the needs of a growing child who becomes a
26:00
young man and you can do that. That's it, man.
26:09
Like that's it. Like that in itself is, is, is
26:13
what we're here to do. And that frankly is the culture
26:16
of Entrada and we'll start to learn that in the second quarter
26:19
of this year. So I'm really excited about
26:21
that. That's not to say I'm not
26:23
excited about our pipeline. I just think what's right in
26:26
front of us is these, these results from DMD and results
26:30
from hopefully from, from DM1 as well.
26:33
And if I push past that, I think ocular is another huge area.
26:36
People just don't realize how, or people are starting to
26:39
realize how much on that clinical need there are in
26:42
diseases like Usher syndrome, you know, and, and diseases like
26:45
that where they, it ultimately, you know, can potentially lead
26:48
to blindness. You know, I told my kids the
26:52
other day on a zoom, I'm like, close your eyes and they close
26:57
their eyes. I'm like, what do you see?
26:58
And they're like, nothing. I'm like, think about that,
27:00
think about living through that and progressively getting to
27:03
that point where you've had the ability to see and now it's
27:06
starting to slowly go away. The ability to hopefully it's
27:09
very early days to be able to reverse that or treat that or
27:13
prolong the ability to see those are those are big deals, right?
27:19
And so, but you know, first and foremost, as we sit here on
27:22
February, I don't know what today's date is, Tom, but 24th,
27:25
maybe maybe the 23rd, the Blizzard kind of got to us.
27:29
But sitting here today, I think, you know, the excitement around
27:31
DMD is so high for us and I, and I also think the community as
27:35
well. Yeah, for sure.
27:36
Yeah. And you mentioned a couple of
27:38
the the near term milestones for Trata.
27:42
What about is there anything on the the business corporate side
27:44
that you guys are looking for over the next 12 to 24 months
27:47
and and even on the clinic I guess beyond this year, like
27:50
what is the next major milestones that that you guys
27:53
have? Particularly, yeah, you know, we
27:55
have these, these, these three and and hopefully 4 very big
27:59
milestones this year for DMD and DM1, right.
28:02
So I, I don't think I specifically laid out the
28:04
cadence. So our 44 program, we have the
28:07
first cohort readout in the second quarter, that's at six
28:11
megs per keg. Then we have the second cohort
28:13
read out at the end of the year, that's at 12 megs per keg,
28:16
right. And once again, we think at six
28:19
megs per keg, we feel as though we will be able to which is a
28:21
very low dose, we'll be able to achieve double digit dystrophin
28:24
production, which is a big deal. We think by the end of the year
28:28
we'll be way, way above that right, which is which is even a
28:32
bigger deal. Our 45 program which competes
28:35
against an approved therapeutic called Amondus 45 or Kazimir Sin
28:40
will read out that first cohort will read out in the middle of
28:43
this year mid 2026 is what we publicly said.
28:46
And we expect that that first cohort should have you know,
28:49
really, really compelling data as well.
28:52
Our DM1 program which is partnered with with Vertex that
28:56
that first that they, they, they, they publicly said that
29:00
they are guiding to finishing enrollment and dosing in the
29:03
middle of this year. So we're hopeful that, you know,
29:05
there'll be some data there as well because DM 1 is a very,
29:07
very wide open space as well too.
29:10
There's over 110,000 patients that have this disease, no
29:14
approved therapeutics. So we're excited about what you
29:17
know, Vertex along with others are are excited with Vertex will
29:20
hopefully, you know, present, you know, the course of this
29:22
year. But as we look forward right
29:24
into 27 into 28, I think it gets closer and closer to hopefully
29:29
an approved product for DNDI think that's first and foremost.
29:33
And then across the exons and what we have here is we have a
29:37
44 program here, we have a 45, you have a 50, you have a 51.
29:40
So it's a staggered approach. What I look forward to in 27 to
29:43
28 is not only driving 44 and 45 for it, but also 50 and 51.
29:47
So now you have 4 distinct programs that are hopefully
29:50
getting closer to, you know, commercialization, right?
29:53
Talk about, you know, advancements.
29:54
That's huge. Then DM 1, you know, Vertex is
29:58
driving that that that car right now.
30:00
But you know, we're we're obviously involved in that
30:04
mostly from a financial perspective based upon the deal
30:07
like that becomes really important to us as a smaller
30:10
biotech company. I think third is driving those
30:14
ocular programs forward. So we disclosed our clinical
30:16
candidate for usher program late last year into JP Morgan and
30:21
then we'll have another one, you know the second-half of this
30:23
year as well too. And then driving those forward
30:26
into the clinic, right. So what are you building here?
30:28
You're building a diversified global biotech company.
30:32
I think advancing and building the infrastructure of the
30:35
company is going to be very important.
30:37
If we get really good data, if we get good data for our DMD
30:40
programs, you know, building out the the rest of our, you know,
30:44
the building out our commercial infrastructure is going to be
30:46
important as well. Leveraging that balance sheet
30:49
that will, that will increase to be able to access other diseases
30:53
and other drugs through business development is something that
30:56
that we look forward to as well. But it all starts with, you
30:59
know, flipping over the cards with, with this first cohort of
31:03
data for for our 44 program, it starts there and then we we
31:07
hopefully build from there. That sounds so exciting.
31:09
And just talk through something. You've been in the Duchenne
31:12
treatment space for a while. Can you just talk us through how
31:16
you think that space has evolved over time, I guess from when you
31:20
first got into it to where it is now?
31:21
And how does Intrada's approach fit into the the broader
31:25
Duchenne ecosystem as well? So if we take a step back,
31:28
right, So Duchenne is a disease that really effects boys, right?
31:32
And then boys into into young men and, and Duchenne is a each
31:37
like each mutation is in itself almost a distinct disease.
31:42
So when we talk about an Exxon 44 program, we're talking about
31:46
an Exxon 44 program under the DMD landscape, right?
31:50
Or under the umbrella. Same with 45, same with 50, same
31:53
with 51. You know, we talked about
31:55
Surrepta earlier. I mean, Surrepta did a really,
31:57
you know, really try to push aggressively to get disease, to
32:02
get drugs for these patients back in the, you know, in the
32:05
2000s. And, you know, I think part of
32:10
their strategy without knowing exactly what they wanted to do
32:13
was go after all the major diseases, but also leverage
32:16
other modalities like gene therapy to be able to, you know,
32:20
address those those diseases. What, what Duchenne needs
32:25
though, when you're a young boy becoming a young man, is the
32:29
flexibility of an approach that allows you to deliver a
32:34
therapeutic that will be able to grow as the child grows into a
32:40
young man, right. And so the flex, when I say
32:44
that, I mean the flexibility around how much dosing are you
32:46
going to, are you going to give 6 minutes per gig and you get 12
32:49
minutes per gig? Do you have flexibility in
32:50
dosing? Do you have the ability to start
32:53
and stop, right? Do you have the ability to add
32:56
on other, other therapeutics if you need to as well?
33:01
Can you do that at lower doses, right?
33:04
Can you do that at a, at a dosing interval that is every
33:07
six weeks, things like that, right?
33:10
I think that is what everyone is looking forward to.
33:14
I think unfortunately, gene therapy for Duchenne, which had
33:17
a lot of eyes on it over the past couple years, didn't
33:23
fulfill those promises that the gene therapy companies made,
33:28
just to be candid, right? And, and I think that has set
33:32
the, the group, the, the, the, you know, the, the DMD space
33:36
back and that's perception. The reality though, is that
33:41
there are a lot of therapeutics that are there are a lot of
33:43
companies that are trying to still crack this crack, this
33:45
code here, right? Gene therapy was never going to
33:48
be the sole answer. If you think about the
33:50
limitations of gene therapy, the inability to re dose, the
33:54
inability to change the dose, the inability to stop the dose
34:00
once you take it, it's in you, right?
34:02
The lack of flexibility there becomes a challenge, right.
34:08
And so when we saw the space, you know, several years ago, we
34:11
said that doesn't make a lot of sense to us.
34:15
It's nouveau, it seems cutting edge, like gene editing's
34:19
cutting edge. That's all great.
34:21
That's, that's fantastic, right? And the more shot the, the, the
34:24
more shots on goal, the better. But do they make sense for that
34:28
disease as we stand back in 20, 2021-2022, right?
34:35
And this is when we started to really get into it.
34:37
Did it make sense? Did it answer the questions via
34:40
data to address that patient population based on the
34:45
limitations that I just said And our answer was no, it didn't.
34:49
But but investors, companies were really looking for that
34:53
Nuvo 1 and done type of thing. We sat there and said it doesn't
34:58
need to be like that. We need to advance this so that
35:01
we can do what exactly I said, right.
35:04
Low doses, get to the muscle, get to the cardiac, produce
35:08
dystrophin, be able to have a therapeutic index that allows
35:12
you to go from dose A to B to C, have a safety interval that is
35:16
our safety margins that are really high.
35:18
And then ultimately have dystrophin production and
35:21
functional benefit that will help these kids as they grow
35:25
into young men and hopefully as they get older and older and
35:28
older, right? How do you look at this disease
35:31
and turn it on its head, right? So in 2022, I said to, I said to
35:35
our board, I said, look, by the time we get to 2024 to 2027
35:39
called, there's going to be a clearinghouse.
35:41
All these approaches, because DMD has a lot of focus on it, a
35:45
lot of these approaches are not going to make it.
35:47
And that's not me saying I can read the, the, you know, the tea
35:50
leaves, but that's drug discovery and drug development,
35:52
right? Most fail.
35:54
But for us, what we need to do is look at the patient journey
35:57
and if we can actually sit there and say, we can address it here,
36:01
here, here and here, we might have a chance here.
36:05
And it'll take us time. We're not going to do this
36:07
overnight. It's going to take years to do
36:09
it. We will partner with the patient
36:11
groups. We're partnering with the
36:12
leading Kols in the world. But the but the point here is
36:16
that we need to be aggressive yet patient with this journey
36:22
and be able to, you know, make pivots where we need to go.
36:25
And that's where that that that leads us into 2026, Tom, that
36:28
leads us to exactly where we are today in that journey.
36:31
That allows us to say, look, at the end of the day, you know, a
36:34
lot of the a lot of the first generations have kind of fallen
36:37
off. Companies have fallen off in
36:39
terms of looking at DMD avidity is, you know, being, you know,
36:43
acquired by by Novartis, right? And you know, Novartis will have
36:47
to enact whatever strategy they have in DMD.
36:50
We don't know what that might be.
36:52
You know, gene therapy has taken a huge set back right within
36:56
DMD. So what is left, this is not a
36:59
war of attrition here, right? This is a what is going to win
37:03
for the patient, what is in the best interest of the patient.
37:06
And I think that's where that leads us.
37:07
And what we have been talking to the community from the investor
37:10
side, from the analyst side, especially from the patient side
37:13
is we kind of saw a lot of this coming, right?
37:17
And we've been in the background continuing to move forward and
37:22
now we're in the clinic. We had this DMCA couple weeks
37:25
ago, safety good right now let's see what the distrophant
37:30
production looks like in the in the second quarter of this year
37:32
for our 44 program. If we hit double digit
37:34
distrophant production, that's a big deal.
37:37
That's a big deal. It's also a huge de risking
37:40
event for the rest of our DMD exons, right.
37:42
And I and I think folks are starting, starting to see that
37:45
in with with more clarity. Well, look, it sounds so
37:48
exciting what you build. I'm looking forward to seeing
37:50
the readouts that happened later on this year.
37:53
So fingers crossed they go the way that you want in and just to
37:56
talk through. So I guess obviously having
37:58
great science is amazing, but people as well is equally
38:02
important for sure. Just talk us through the culture
38:05
that's been built at Entrada. I've had the pleasure of meeting
38:09
with Kerry and obviously yourself on on different
38:11
occasions. So I have a bit a bit of a sense
38:13
into that. But just talk us through the
38:14
culture that you've built at Entrada and how do you maintain
38:18
that strong culture, particularly as the company
38:21
grows and and Yep, situations become more complex?
38:24
Like, how do you maintain that culture?
38:27
It is, it is the IT is one of the things that I probably focus
38:32
on the most with my leadership team.
38:34
I don't really feel as though leadership starts from the top
38:36
down. I think strategic direction
38:38
starts from the top down. I think what we've been able to
38:42
see is this, this group of leaders emerging that are
38:47
younger in their career, right? Taking, taking their own
38:51
initiative, right, building this company into not what Deepel
38:55
Doshi's CEO wants, into the company that they want.
38:59
And so when I say that, I mean by building different employee
39:03
employee groups, right? Based upon, you know, different
39:06
interests, based upon different genders, based upon different,
39:10
you know, different ethnicities, right?
39:14
Bringing that all together, right?
39:17
You know, it's nothing, there's nothing better than, you know,
39:20
celebrating whether it's Chinese New Year or Diwali or, or
39:23
something like that with this, with this highly diverse group
39:27
of, of individuals at Entrada, right?
39:29
So Entrada today is, you know, there's more women than men at
39:33
the company. It's highly diverse.
39:36
The leadership team is embedded, right?
39:39
We, we've been together for a long time now.
39:42
I mean, this leadership team has been together for over 5 years,
39:44
six years, some of us longer than that.
39:47
And I think at the end of the day, you can make widgets, you
39:52
can make whatever you want. But I've always said like if
39:56
you're doing it with a group of people that are like minded,
39:58
that are professional, that are respectful, that will push you
40:02
and to push you to be better and have that common goal of getting
40:06
these drugs. Through the clinic and hopefully
40:10
to the patients and take that personally, right?
40:13
It's OK to take that personally work that extra hour, right?
40:19
Patients are are their diseases continue, right?
40:23
We had a Blizzard yesterday, nobody stopped.
40:26
Maybe we didn't go into the office, but no one stopped,
40:28
right? It's that tenacity, right?
40:31
Because we're all one genetic mutation away from having a
40:35
family member, having ourselves, having a, you know, a friend
40:38
having and a lot of us have, you know, friends and family members
40:41
who have these diseases. But that's the focus that I
40:45
bring and my leadership rings to, to the table.
40:48
The culture is built, you know, holistically, right?
40:52
For us, it really starts with there is a there's not a lot of
40:56
ego in intrada. We don't have time for that.
40:59
And I think a lot of companies say that we don't have time for
41:02
that. I mean, if you, you know me now,
41:03
if you, you can ask enough people.
41:05
I'm driven. I don't, I'm not really in it
41:07
for the accolades. I'm in it for, to get the drugs,
41:09
the drugs made and for, for, for these kids and their families
41:13
and whatnot. I think culture is built by
41:18
everyone. And I think our turnover shows
41:22
that, right, Our turnover in Boston, which is, you know, the
41:25
most competitive, you know, biotech hub in, in the world.
41:31
You know, sometimes you want people to leave because you want
41:33
growth and all that, but less than 8%, you know, turnover year
41:38
on year, something like that. It's increasing a little little
41:41
bit more now, which makes sense because we're building the
41:43
company. But the turnover, people want to
41:45
stay. People want to be there.
41:47
There's a sense of belonging. And I think that starts with
41:50
transparency. That starts with this.
41:52
No, I won't swear, but the no policy and, and I think it
41:58
starts with people that are real and accessible and care.
42:01
I think that's one. I think it's also from another
42:04
angle, it's patient advocacy. We have a wonderful patient
42:08
advocacy group, a small but fantastic patient advocacy
42:11
group, right. So Sarah Friedhoff is our head
42:13
of patient advocacy. Carla McDonald is our chief
42:16
corporate affairs officer, which patient advocacy advocacy goes
42:19
into. I'm heavily involved in it as
42:21
well. We bring, we bring patients in,
42:25
you know, into the office, everyone's there.
42:28
We learn, we learn, we ask questions, sad iterations and,
42:33
and, and it's put your money where your mouth is type of
42:36
thing, right? And, and literally sometimes as
42:38
well, like what's important, right?
42:40
And at the end of the day, we are not building these
42:44
therapeutics in a vacuum. We're building them in, in we're
42:47
building these therapeutics in close collaborations with Kols,
42:50
patient groups, people that know more than us, people that are
42:55
living this as well. And our group sees that.
42:57
Our team sees that, right? That what is the ultimate goal
43:00
here to get these drugs to the patients if, if the drugs
43:04
deserve to go that far, get these drugs to the patients who
43:07
need them, right. That's the culture of the
43:09
company. And I think people like that
43:12
direction. I think, you know, the hardest
43:17
part of my job is as the company gets a little bit bigger, you
43:20
get a little bit further removed from that day-to-day sitting in
43:23
the cafeteria, you know, talking to people and things like that
43:27
all the time, right? And especially as a public
43:31
company, but, but you know, we missed those early days, but
43:34
we're really excited about the days ahead because of the
43:36
culture that we built and the drugs that are in the clinic.
43:39
How do you, like, you're obviously in a high pressure
43:42
leadership position as well. Like how do you define work life
43:45
balance? How do you manage that?
43:47
I know you mentioned you have kids as well.
43:49
How do you balance work life talents, being at home, being a
43:52
father, being at work? Yeah.
43:53
And is there any particular habits, routines that help you
43:57
maintain focus and resilience as well?
43:59
Yeah. It's tough.
44:03
It's tough. I think people have these magic
44:06
solutions where they get up at 4:00 in the morning, go to the
44:09
gym and things like that. I, I, I, I do not.
44:11
I think it's, I think it's I'm embedded in my job, right?
44:16
Like my, my wife and I joke about it.
44:19
I joke about it. I don't think she's joking about
44:21
it, but I'm dedicated to my job, right?
44:23
Like this is not, this is, you know, I have very limited
44:26
hobbies, But because I enjoy my job, I enjoy what the goal of
44:30
the company is going to be. I enjoy those challenges.
44:33
I enjoy overcoming those challenges with my, with my
44:36
team. I celebrate the wins, right?
44:39
And, and we learn from the, the setbacks, right?
44:43
Like that to me is all good, right?
44:45
I, I am a very family focused guy.
44:47
I'm a pretty, pretty private guy at the end of the day, right?
44:52
So, but I'll give you, I'll give you a, I'll give you a little
44:55
bit of a snippet into my, into my, into my life.
44:57
So my daughter is 21. She's a junior in college and my
45:01
son is 18 and he's a senior in high school and he's going
45:03
through the college process right now.
45:06
I started this company nine years ago.
45:08
So my son was 9 and my, my daughter was 12.
45:10
So they're young, right? We go to our favorite little
45:13
bakery in, in, in, in where we live in Princeton, NJ.
45:17
And I sit with them like these little, these little kids,
45:19
right? And my, the four of us,
45:22
including my wife, are there and like, we have a decision to
45:25
make. And I let literally let them
45:27
know I'm like, look, guys, I have this opportunity to go.
45:30
And you know, I said this in, in a kid voice type of thing,
45:32
right? They're friendly to kids, you
45:36
know, and I'm like, we have this opportunity to do this.
45:38
And I kept on saying we have this opportunity.
45:40
I never said I I always said we, which which I found interesting
45:43
when my wife pointed that out to me.
45:46
And my 9 year old, all of nine years old with his wisdom was
45:50
like, you should do it. And my 12 year old was my 12
45:54
year old was like, you better win, right?
46:00
Something like that, right. I look back on those, you know,
46:04
I look back at that from a legacy perspective more than
46:07
anything, right? And you know, I brought my
46:10
family along with this journey, right?
46:12
There's a podcast that I did which turned into something with
46:16
a, with a patient and a, and a, and a young man who interned
46:20
with us. His name is Yuva Gambier.
46:22
And Yuva is one of those amazing, amazing, amazing young
46:26
man. And I just love that podcast
46:30
and, and for, for, for your group, you know, whoever's
46:33
listening to this, you know, I would encourage you to take a
46:35
look at that because that really kind of is a nutshell shows
46:38
Entrada as to what Entrada really is.
46:40
And my daughter was in the room, right?
46:42
And in the back, right. This is last year, maybe the
46:44
year before. And I was just watching, right?
46:47
And she was just watching what her dad, what her dad does.
46:50
That brings to me a lot of, a lot of pride, I think is
46:55
probably the best way to describe it.
46:58
If you ask my friends or if you ask most of my family, I really
47:01
don't care what people think of me.
47:03
I have AI, have a goal, I have a focus.
47:06
I do care what my family thinks of me.
47:08
I do care about the legacy that I'm leaving.
47:12
I care about what that next generation of people who are
47:15
going to go after these diseases.
47:17
We should obsolete our own technologies.
47:20
When it comes to drug discovery, someone should do better than
47:23
what Entrada has done or will hopefully do within DMD.
47:26
Maybe that'll be us, maybe it'll be somebody else.
47:28
That's the goal, right? It's to really give everyone the
47:33
life that, you know, hopefully they, they hopefully give
47:36
everyone the life they deserve. So for me, I spent a lot of time
47:39
with my family. I think they, they, you know,
47:42
they, they ground you. I do read a lot still.
47:47
I find time from a tenacity perspective, you know, and the,
47:51
and the setbacks. I talk to people.
47:53
I talk to my oldest friends who know me from way back when,
47:56
right? That is in itself a certain
47:58
amount of therapy. And I think importantly, not
48:02
only from the Entrada side, we spent a lot of time thinking
48:04
about our own mental health. This is a, you know, nine years
48:08
as ACEO is, is a long time, right?
48:11
And I look forward to the next nine years, but it's a long time
48:14
takes a toll, right? Takes a toll.
48:16
You mentally once again celebrate the wins and you
48:21
lament over the over, over the setbacks, but you learn from
48:24
them. But I'm a pretty tenacious dude.
48:27
Like I, you know, I was an English major, major out of
48:31
Rutgers that's leading a biotech company, right?
48:34
Like, you know, I'm used to, I'm used to, you know, having to
48:38
open doors and things like that. I think that is a, that is a, an
48:42
embedded quality within me that I think I've shared with my own
48:47
leadership team, but more importantly, I share with my
48:51
kids, right? It's act not more importantly,
48:54
equally important, probably at that point, right?
48:57
So I think that's that, right. And, and you know, choosing to
49:00
work in biotech, you're choosing to work in a roller coaster and
49:05
that is a conscious decision. But if that journey is one that
49:09
is remarkable. And, and I've learned so much
49:13
and I continue to learn and I continue to surround myself with
49:16
people that are smarter and more experienced than me.
49:19
I mentioned this to John Crowley years ago when when he joined
49:22
our board and then of course, had to come off when he became
49:25
the the CEO of Bio. He saw so much of what I had not
49:31
seen. And surrounding myself with
49:33
people like him who can actually help me see around, you know,
49:37
the bends in the road become really important.
49:40
We're still doing that today. You know what, maybe not with
49:44
John as much, but we're still doing that with with other folks
49:46
as well. And so and we'll continue that
49:49
into 26 into 2728. You know, we're here to build a
49:52
stand alone company and that that is, that is key.
49:56
So it comes down to culture, it comes down to taking care of
49:59
yourself, and it comes down to being tenacious.
50:01
For sure. I love that.
50:02
And this is a question that we, we would always finish with on
50:05
the bio hub. And I know I wanted to give you
50:07
a bit of a heads up with it as well.
50:08
But if you were to, to sit down and have dinner with, with any
50:11
free people, past or present, would it be and why?
50:14
It doesn't necessarily need to be biotech innovators, although
50:17
it, it can be if you like. But yeah, free people you'd like
50:20
to sit down and have dinner with.
50:21
You know, I, I, I actually agonized over this, right?
50:26
I brought my wife in, I brought my kids in.
50:30
I talked to friends, we went out to dinner, had a whole
50:32
conversation about this. I think first and foremost,
50:37
I've, I've suffered some personal loss, right?
50:40
So my, my, my father passed away during the world conference,
50:44
world Muscle Conference a couple years ago, 18 months ago.
50:48
And that is, that is something that I, you know, I, I, I
50:54
continue to, to work through. I was looking at my phone.
50:56
Tomorrow's his birthday. So that, that's something
50:58
that's, that's weighing on me. I'd like to, I'd like to have
51:02
dinner with him again and ask him the questions that I never
51:05
asked. Ask him more about his youth.
51:08
Ask him more about like what you know, you know, what, what, what
51:16
drove you as a kid? What are your parents and what
51:18
are your grandparents like? Right?
51:21
What was it like growing up in India and coming here with, you
51:23
know, 10 bucks in your in your pocket, you know, And in 1963,
51:29
going back, marrying my mom in 1968, right?
51:32
Like bringing that back, raising two kids.
51:35
I have an older brother raising two kids, trying to maintain a
51:38
culture that people did not want you to maintain because you
51:41
wanted to assimilate things like that.
51:45
Honestly, Tom, he's the only one I went at that dinner.
51:50
I don't need anything else. I can read books, but I'd like
51:53
to ask him some more questions. I think that's that's why I
51:57
agonized over this. It was like, oh, should I say
51:59
Alexander the Great, Julius Caesar, Jackie Robinson, Martin
52:04
Luther King, Malcolm XI thought about all that.
52:07
And then I realized I read a book.
52:09
I read the Autobot. It's back there, right?
52:11
All these books are back there. There's no book on my dad, so
52:17
I'd rather just sit with him and ask him some more questions,
52:22
have a beer, watch Philly's game type of thing.
52:25
So. Yeah, yeah.
52:26
Well, look, that's an amazing answer, I think.
52:28
Yeah, I think that's probably the perfect answer.
52:31
So look, it was an absolute pleasure to have you on today.
52:34
It sounds like what you guys are developing and Charter is
52:39
amazing. I'm looking forward to seeing
52:41
the progress and the readouts that happened on later on this
52:43
year. Just culturally, it seems like
52:45
an amazing culture. You've built an amazing place
52:49
for work, to work for people as well.
52:50
So look, it was a pleasure to have you all night.
52:53
I really enjoyed it. Awesome.
52:54
I appreciate it, Tom. I thoroughly enjoyed the
52:56
discussion and you know, you guys are doing great stuff here
53:00
And, and I and I watch all your podcasts.
53:01
I encourage everyone to watch all, all these guys podcasts.
53:04
You'll, you'll learn something. But if anything, they're they're
53:07
enjoyable to listen to as well. So thank you for the opportunity
53:10
and I'm sure we'll talk again soon.
53:12
Yeah.