Latest / The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast / #283: Brendan Wilkins-Quinnipiac University

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#283: Brendan Wilkins-Quinnipiac University · The Gill Athletics Track and Field Connections Podcast

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Track and Field world tuned in to our humble servant Mike
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Cunningham for another extraordinary message for Guild
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Athletics connections. All right, welcome back here to
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the Guild Athletics Connections Podcast.
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Thank you again. Once again, I'm always going to
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say this, I'm always going to give you a shout out and say
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thank you for pressing play. It's a little bit like, you
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know, if a tree falls in the woods, but no one's there, does
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it make a sound? Well, does a podcast really
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exist if no one listens? I'm not sure it does.
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So I'm so glad you're listening and really grateful for you
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being here today. My name, if this is your first
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time, my name is Mike Cunningham.
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I'm the national business development manager here at Gill
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Athletics, also known as that guy that hosts the podcast.
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And that's what you're here for. But what you're really here for
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is our guest. So let's hop into it.
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I'm excited about this one. You know we've talked about this
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before There's times I have people on the show that I've
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known for decades. It's usually the older crowd,
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right known him for a long time. It's a lot of fun.
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We always learn something new and then we get some guys and
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gals on the podcast. I've never I've met but don't
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really know or what not in this. That's today's case.
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And these are a lot of fun for me because I get to learn a
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whole lot about whole new people and that just really excites me
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because that's what kind of I'm all about There's a reason why
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we named it the connections podcast, right.
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So let's get to it. Help me welcome from Quinnipiac
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University the the wonderful Mr. Brendan Wilkins.
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Brendan, how are you, Sir? I'm doing well, thanks for
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having me. Awesome, man.
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I'm glad you're here. Before I start, I, I can't
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remember if I told you this before, but but publicly I have
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to tell my Quinnipiac story. Have I told you my Quinnipiac
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story? I don't think I have.
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I'm not sure I you might. I think when we saw convention,
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I remember you told me something.
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I don't know if that's what you're going for.
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Yeah, every time Quinnipiac comes up, I have to tell the
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story. So my alma mater is Troy
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University and I have a 13 year old boy.
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If you've listened at all during for the podcast, you probably
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know his name is Troy. When my wife was pregnant, we
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were talking about what we were going to name our son.
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And I really wanted to name my son after the my university.
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That's where I found my faith And just, you know, so much of
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my life came from the university and she allowed me, spoiler
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alert, right? She allowed me and I and she
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looked at me and said, well, I guess I'm just glad you didn't
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go to Quinnipiac University, which I just thought was funny.
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She knew Quinnipiac, which was great.
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I love that she knew that. And then I was like, yeah, you
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know, if I went to Quinnipiac, got named like named him like
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Quinny or Pack, I don't know. I have been a little bit
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different name than Troy. So that's I love Quinnipiac just
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for the it's in my life, even though you don't know it's in my
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life. Well, if you have a daughter,
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you can name her Quinn. That'll be a good one.
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Quinn would be beautiful. Actually, I I do.
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I do like that. And I did have a daughter,
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Cassidy. But if you're, if you're the
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kids, name Quinn. Someone out there that is
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actually a really cool name. What?
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What's the mascot? It's like a Wildcat or
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something. Right?
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Bobcats. Bobcats.
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Yeah. So you could like Quinn, Quinn
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Bobby or something. I don't know.
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That gets a little too crazy there.
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Yeah. All right, ma'am, Let's get into
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it here. Brandon.
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Thank you so much, man. You know, one of the most
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valuable things that you can give me is your time.
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And so I'm super grateful. We're in the fall right now.
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And that's a that's a pretty busy time.
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You got new kids on the campus. You're you're reintroducing
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starting practice. You're getting, you know, kind
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of teaching all over one O one from the beginning again.
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So really, really thankful for you taking some time out and
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joining us and talking about your journey today.
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Man. I'm really excited about this.
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Yeah, for sure. No, it's, it's been say it's
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been I always get, I always tell my athletes like the, the breaks
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are like one of my it's one of my favorite times, one of my
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worst times cuz like I look forward to having the break.
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But then because I spent so much time with them, I start like
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missing them. And kind of I always feel like
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the end of the outdoor season is like a really bad breakup
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because then we just split. No one says goodbye.
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And especially the seniors and I may or may not ever see you
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again. So I always get excited when I
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love having my time off, of course, but I always get excited
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when we start back up. That that's a good.
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I never thought about you. I coach for 10th season.
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I never thought about that. It's fairly abrupt.
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And if you have like one group that goes on to nationals and
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maybe, you know, for for at least my kids, most of them
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didn't go to nationals. You almost have to do it twice.
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You have the one and you still get a group that goes on and
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then it's. And it literally just happens.
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Like, all right, well, you know, the meat was over.
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See you in August. Or to your point, the seniors
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like good luck, right? Yeah, man.
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Yeah, man. Well, let's learn this journey,
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Brendan. You know, my favorite growing
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up, I was a comic book guy. And my favorite episode, my
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favorite comic, my favorite issues were the very first one,
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the origin issues. Like how did Spider Man become?
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How did Peter Parker become Spider Man?
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How did Clark Kent become Superman?
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What's your origin story man? Where does track and field start
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for you? I feel like I was somewhat of AI
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guess a late introduction to track.
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I didn't really get into it until my sophomore year of high
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school. I was always basketball,
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football. Those were kind of like my
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sports when I did and growing up I played baseball.
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But once I got to high school, I kind of that was that that
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wasn't my sport. So the springtime, I wouldn't
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really do much. Some years I would play like
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travel basketball. And then but what I could always
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do is I could always jump. So in basketball warmups, I'd be
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in the layup lines and our athletic director would be he'd,
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he'd be at every game for all the sports and I'd be in the
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layup layups line dunking and getting big rebounds.
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And he said, you know, you should come out to the track
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team. And I never thought myself as
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someone who is very, you know, flexible or anything or so I was
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like, oh, maybe I can try the long jump, but I don't know
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about that high jump thing. And then that's what I ended up
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doing. So yeah, got into it right after
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that and just mainly just kind of high jump throughout,
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throughout high school. Where are we growing up at?
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Sorry so I'm I'm from Connecticut, Stonington
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Connecticut. Familiar areas would be like
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Mystic, Connecticut, kind of. Have you ever watched like
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Mystic Pizza or like the Mystic Aquarium?
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So that kind of area, Southeastern Connecticut, Yeah.
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Stonington High School. So when you you're playing
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basketball, AD sees you as like, man, this guy can jump here.
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Maybe we should join the track team.
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You didn't do it your freshman year when they started asking
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you maybe during sophomore year. Did you need to be convinced?
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Like it was like, like a lot of times I hear the story of a kid
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saying, you know, being asked, Hey, let's do track.
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And they go, oh, I can't run. I guess it's just automatic.
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You know, they, I don't know what they automatically go to.
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Like the, the mile. They're like, I can't run.
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Like I'll die or, or they go, I'm not fast.
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It's the mile or the 100. That's always what they kind of
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think of typically don't think of field events.
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Did you have to be convinced? Did you know anything about
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track? Like did you watch the Olympics
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or anything? Or was this kind of like I, you
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know, I know it's an Oval. I know that.
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Yeah, I mean, it was outside of the Olympics.
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I didn't really kind of pay too much attention to it.
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Like I obviously knew about cross country and stuff and I
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guess thought more running and but no, it wasn't he, my
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athletic director knew that I was.
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I like to be pretty involved and I like to do something.
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And I also felt kind of weird not playing a sport as I grew up
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doing stuff all the time. So he was kind of saying, you
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know, it's like we're we're looking for some people to come
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out. We don't have many numbers on
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the on the boys side. And he's like, I think you would
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come and make an impact and you'd have a lot of fun with it.
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And and, and he was right. And it's funny.
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I kind of think about just like kind of going to like a back to
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Marvel or the the spider verse, right?
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I think about like kind of tiny little decisions that you make
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in different branches you go. And I always wonder if, if Miss
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Maroon never said that to me, where I'd be right now.
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So it was good. Yeah.
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And so I was mainly a high jumper throughout high school.
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I would long jump every now and then and be on the relays, but
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it was always kind of something that I felt like basketball and
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football always kind of had my most attention.
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And I think it was like my sophomore and junior year.
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It just the culture wasn't really of the program wasn't
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super serious. It was kind of more like a laid
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back and stuff. And that's kind of how I treated
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it. The head coach at the time, like
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I'd be jumping and he'd kind of be sprawled out on the, the on
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the ground with like a piece of grass in his mouth just kind of
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hanging out. And my workouts would be go for
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like 20 minute jogs and me and my buddies on the team, we would
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run for maybe 5 minutes into the woods and just kind of sit there
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for the rest of the 15 and then come back.
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That's kind of how we treated it.
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And it was, it was good, it was fun and I was, I was doing well.
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And what I started to kind of realize was with the other
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sports that I loved, obviously there's a lot more kind of
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there's always kind of like politics with any kind of team
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sport where you know, you're fighting for playing time and,
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you know, you know, feeling like the coach doesn't like you or
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it's. And like I said, I, I loved like
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in football, being able to run around and jump up for the ball
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and use my my reach and my jumping abilities.
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And same thing at basketball, going to get a big rebound.
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So I could pretty much, and that was pretty much all I was good
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at. I wasn't fast, you know, I
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couldn't dribble, I couldn't do anything else.
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So with jumping, I could just do the things that I like to do and
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that I was good at. So then it was kind of a lot
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more fun and I felt it and looking now later and even just
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when I think about track and I as I went on my years in, I just
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felt like what I love about the sport the most is kind of what
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you put into it. You get out of it, right?
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You don't really have to rely on you're on the basketball court.
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You don't have to rely on four other guys.
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You know, put it having the same kind of mindset as you do to be
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successful. You can kind of take it upon
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yourself and be successful. So I started kind of get into,
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especially junior year, I started picking up some traction
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with it and going to higher level meets and jumping a little
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bit higher. And then it was my senior year,
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we got a new coach, Ben Carroll, who I still keep in touch with
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this day. We we've become close friends.
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He coached me in my senior year and you could just kind of tell
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immediately a giant culture shift just with the program,
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just the way he, you could tell that he was super passionate
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about the sport. And just, I always kind of think
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about just the the amount of tension that he gave to all the
10:26
athletes really made an impact. Whereas he has it.
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And currently he so he spent one year at my high school and then
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he's had a job at his alma mater at the University of Rhode
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Island coaching the throws program.
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And they have one now. They have one of the top throws
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programs in the Northeast. He's been there for maybe my
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mouth's probably off, but like 14 or 15 years now.
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So he was a throws guy and I went from jumping 6 feet to
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jumping 6/6 and breaking the school record and him having
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very little knowledge, you know, about the jumps.
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He just was passionate about what he did, did research and,
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you know, gave that attention to me.
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Where is, you know, I wasn't just kind of it, it the, just
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the, the program to shift where people started caring about what
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we did. And we, you know, we broke
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records and almost every event and just the program kind of
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shifted like that. How did that's really
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interesting. Very similar.
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We had a coach up through my junior year, had a different
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staff my senior year where I grew up.
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I grew up in Alabama. So all the coaches were football
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coaches. So after junior year, the
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football coach got let go. So we all every sport got all
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new coaches because we got a whole new football staff my
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senior year. And now my my coach up through
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my junior year didn't sit on the grass and send me out a 15
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minute runs, but wasn't all that much better either.
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Now I've said this before, Dennis Anderson was my coach.
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Love Dennis. If he was here today, I'd give
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him a big hug. He coached to the ability he
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did. He did not lay around and say do
11:58
whatever he did as well as he could have loved him to death.
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And this is a I'm a little bit older than you, Brendan.
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It's a little bit before the time where you could even find a
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lot of resources to even learn how to coach other events.
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Senior year coach rush came in and for the football and coach
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John Gross was our senior year coach and radically different.
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So still not what we would today say is coach, you know, like how
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you should coach, you know, middle distance runners or
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whatnot, but different a lot more harder work and stuff.
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And I remember how we shifted attention like it, it, it, we,
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we were all cool to be on the track team my first three years
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because, you know, we really didn't do much, you know, senior
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years, like, holy crap, we found out what work means.
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At least we didn't necessarily know what real track coaching
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was, but we, we learned what work was.
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And there were a few, let's call it the 8020 year old 20% that
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just said, Oh yeah, this ain't what I signed up for.
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I'm out. And then a core of us that were
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like, OK, we want to get better at track.
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We just didn't know how, you know, a bunch of kids, this is
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harder work. So we feel like we'll get better
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and we we really gravitated toward it.
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How how'd the team you talked about how you kind of changed
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with the new coach. How did the team was there a lot
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of like exodus of like, well, man, I was, I was cool just
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sitting on the high jump pit for practice.
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Now I got to I got to go do something.
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Nah, I'm good, man. I'll just chill at house.
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How'd the team react to a whole new staff?
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I don't think it was because so he came in the indoor season and
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kind of established what the program was going to be about.
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And I remember one of my first practices being there, a girl on
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team, she was she was a good basketball player.
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And she's like, hey, like I want to come out for track, but I
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also do, you know, travel basketball.
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And he's like, oh, no, no, like I'm not taking any part time
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members. If you're going to be here,
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you're going to be here. So it he very much and he's a
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he's a big guy too. So he wasn't like no one was
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going to be messing with him. But you could tell a sense of
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like just the leadership had changed.
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And if he went about in a way where it very much trickled down
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where, you know, he held people accountable, but he also, you
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know, we we had a great time doing what we were doing.
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So I don't remember too many people leaving because the, the
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track program itself wasn't that big and the people that were
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there wanted to be there. And you know, he wasn't, he came
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in, it was a majority of a lot of the same staff.
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So he didn't come in and you know, you know, start like
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barking orders and stuff. Like he, I feel like he's smooth
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transitioned very well into it. So I could be wrong but I it's
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been a while now but I don't I don't remember it too much but.
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And you seem to enjoy, you seem to reap some benefits. 6 foot
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is, you know, I, I don't ever poo poo anybody who does any
14:48
event. 6 foot and a high jump. That's really stinking good in
14:50
my opinion. But you went to 66, which is a
14:53
remarkable improvement. You you seem to be OK with the
14:56
the coaching change. Yeah, no, it was, it was
14:59
awesome. And, and like I said, I went
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from having someone that just was kind of hanging around with
15:03
me to someone that was, you know, pushing me and, and, and I
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was, I feel like I was always kind of a product of the coach
15:12
that I had. And if I had someone that was,
15:14
you know, just kind of like your dog, if you, if you're laying
15:16
around every day, then your dog is going to lay with you, But if
15:18
you're active, you're going to be doing that.
15:19
So, and that kind of that kind of impact really stuck with me
15:24
with the the coaching. And I just saw how much of A
15:27
change he made for me just by, you know, caring about me.
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And, you know, he was someone that, and he was humble about it
15:33
too. Like he had, you know, he would
15:34
admit that he didn't wasn't the expert of jumps, but he would
15:38
him and I would hop in the car and we would drive down to the
15:41
next town over and work with the jumps coach there that he was
15:43
friends with. And you know, he gave me a lot
15:45
of opportunities to, you know, he could have really been, you
15:49
know, this is my guy. I'm going to be working with
15:50
him, But he he knew what his limits were and he wanted to
15:54
help me get better and wasn't afraid to do that.
15:58
He also wasn't afraid to when I PR D in high jump to give me a
16:02
high 5. He's like, all right, now go, go
16:03
ready for the 4 by 4 so we can get going.
16:06
But but he was great and he kind of helped me through, you know,
16:11
once I started to get into coaching, he was someone at I
16:15
could kind of pick their brain, another person I could pick
16:17
their brain and kind of watch to see what he was doing.
16:20
And now I get to see him all the time at different meets and
16:24
stuff. And it's always a pleasure to
16:25
kind of see him and that. Is kind of cool So what are we
16:30
thinking senior year new coaches we're doing much better.
16:33
I assume you also did your football and basketball senior
16:36
year is that yeah you do track you get this new coach and you
16:40
start jumping maybe 6 foot right off the bat, which is where you
16:43
ended last year and you 6264. You know you kind of go up.
16:46
What are you thinking for school?
16:48
What are you thinking for sports academics and along when you as
16:53
you start to answer that where is is coaching at all in your
16:57
thought process? Are you still thinking about
17:00
becoming a firefighter or an astronaut or whatever we did as
17:02
kids? I feel like I was, I didn't
17:06
really figure out what I wanted to do until I always, I even
17:09
when I'm when I'm giving recruiting visits and I'll have
17:12
an athlete that are coming in undecided, not sure.
17:15
I was like, listen, I didn't figure out what I wanted to do
17:17
until January of my senior year of college.
17:19
So I. I, I feel like I was looking
17:24
back kind of pretty lost and, you know, didn't really know
17:27
what I wanted to do. And I think my, in my
17:30
transcripts reflected that 'cause I just, you know, was all
17:33
over the place and didn't really have a passion of or in
17:36
direction of where I wanted to go.
17:37
And obviously once that changed, then, you know, my, the work
17:43
went into it. So I wasn't really sure what I
17:45
was trying to do. I knew that I had started
17:47
getting recruited a little bit from track.
17:49
I feel like now being on the recruiting side of it, I feel
17:52
like not doing an indoor season kind of, you know, I, I look at
17:56
I when I'm starting to compile my list, I'm looking kind of
17:59
like indoor of their junior year and obviously going to and I
18:02
didn't really start performing well until like my senior end of
18:06
my senior year and recruiting, recruiting done by then, you
18:09
know, so. You'd be termed a late bloomer
18:11
today. It's like, oh, well, of course I
18:13
didn't recruit you as a junior. You jumped 6 feet.
18:16
You didn't do indoors. So you were still a six foot
18:18
jumper until you sort of hit your PR66, which was assumably
18:21
near the end of your senior year.
18:22
Yeah, it's all done right now. We all know where our money's
18:24
going and wherever kids going, etcetera, yeah.
18:28
Right, so I had I had a few schools that reached out to me
18:31
and I ended up going to Ithaca College just in the Finger Lakes
18:37
in New York near where Cornell is and still wasn't even until I
18:42
stepped on canvas my my first year.
18:44
I was even sure if I was going to do continue a track and
18:48
field, you know, I was that kind of loss of what I wanted to do
18:51
and think about. Now if I have no idea where I'd
18:55
be at, I I kind of I joke, I joke with our head coach now,
18:59
like like if I stopped coaching, I don't even know what where I'd
19:02
be like what other skill set I have.
19:04
You know, I've invested so much into this.
19:06
So, but ended going up there and, you know, was kind of
19:09
unsure if I would fit in or not And I think that was kind of it.
19:12
What? What?
19:13
So we know coaching isn't in your heck.
19:16
You're you're going to Ithaca and you're not even sure you're
19:18
going to do the the track thing at all as an athlete.
19:21
What did, did you show up as an undecided major or what did
19:24
what? What were you leaning?
19:25
You had to be at least leaning towards something for a career.
19:29
So I applied business, I went into it, applied a business
19:34
major and then right before it, the, the summer before the
19:40
semester started, I changed my major to they had an exploratory
19:43
program where basically it was like undeclared, but you could
19:46
take like more classes so you could kind of figure out what
19:48
you wanted to do. So I that that seemed to seem
19:52
perfect for me because I had no idea.
19:54
I was thinking much of all different directions.
19:56
I was still with business. I was thinking like.
20:00
Maybe something in sport, maybe something in like sports
20:03
management, maybe something in media and communications.
20:07
I really had no idea any. Influence from family mom, dad,
20:11
aunt, uncle's a teacher, they own a business any influence
20:16
family wise. Looking back and now, I think
20:22
probably subconsciously I knew that I was gonna be a coach, but
20:25
like consciously I didn't. So my dad played professional
20:29
baseball for a little bit and my mother is a teacher.
20:32
So then put together and that's me.
20:35
So I also considered while I was in college, also considered
20:39
teaching as well. And I did teach for a little bit
20:42
after I graduated, but I, I also consider coaching teaching as
20:47
well. So now looking back at it now,
20:51
it all makes sense. That's exactly what I was
20:53
supposed to do because sports was such a big influence that,
20:57
you know, I, I didn't really want that to end.
20:59
And then having the teaching side from my mother kind of all
21:03
kind of came together, I guess at the end.
21:05
But you said? Something earlier that really
21:10
hit me because it's, it's the way I think too.
21:12
You know, we, we look back throughout our lives when we get
21:15
to something and it doesn't matter.
21:16
You can be 20 years old, 40 years old, 60 years old.
21:18
You can look back and you see these decisions.
21:21
You know, I signed up for English one O 1 instead of
21:24
advanced English. Or, you know, things that look
21:26
so small when you're doing it. It's like it's not a big deal.
21:30
And it sets you on a path, though, and it could set you on
21:33
a different path. You know, if you would have
21:35
potentially, you could have thought, oh, you know, dad
21:39
played baseball, Mom's a teacher.
21:40
I'm going to go to Ithaca and I'm going to become a teacher
21:43
and absolutely hated the first year of whatever classes of
21:46
teach education major. And then it dropped out or
21:49
switched your major to whatever, you know, and not end up
21:51
coaching either. You know what I'm saying?
21:53
So it's, it's the path that you took to get today is is the
21:55
perfect path because it's the path that led you to here today.
21:58
You know, So it's really interesting when you said that I
22:01
was like, oh, yeah, that's I believe that too.
22:02
Like there's things where I've said the story before when I
22:05
first got into coaching, you know, I played football and ran
22:08
track and I, I was in my fraternity house looking at the
22:11
high school right outside of our door.
22:12
And I was like, Oh, I, you know, I really miss sports.
22:14
I'm, I'm going to call and just see if they need someone to
22:16
help. And I called the track coach and
22:18
not the football coach. And calling the track coach led
22:20
me to, you know, my final years of coaching.
22:23
I was in the SEC. I'm an SEC home where so that
22:25
was a pretty big deal for me, right?
22:26
And I started thinking if I'd have called the football coach,
22:30
but I've been like, you know, can I be $1,000,000 offensive
22:33
coordinator in this? My, my finances might have been
22:35
a little different. My life quality could have been
22:37
a lot different as well, You know, so I don't look back with
22:40
regret, but it's like, oh man, I, I, I could have easily called
22:43
either one. I, I, I was as success.
22:45
I was probably more successful in football than I was track, to
22:47
be honest with you. But I called track and that led
22:50
me into a, let me see where I am today.
22:52
I mean, it's, it's beautiful. So I, I love that.
22:54
OK, so talk to us about you. Did you?
22:59
You really kind of haven't nailed it for us yet.
23:01
So did you join the track team in Ithaca?
23:03
I did, yeah. OK.
23:04
All right. Sorry.
23:04
OK. Good, good, good.
23:05
Yeah, that's good. So did you stay with high
23:07
jumping? Talk to us about kind of that
23:08
athletic career as a college athlete mainly.
23:11
Continued high jumping. It's the all four years was
23:14
predominantly a high jumper. It was like my junior and senior
23:18
year. I asked my coach if I could
23:20
start being on like the, the CD team relays, just cause mainly
23:25
high jump would be the first event.
23:27
Like, you know, we'd get there. 9 AMI meant high jumps going on.
23:30
And then I sit there for the rest of the day.
23:32
So I, I remember to ask my coach, you think I could be on
23:35
like the, the four by one or try a 4 by 4.
23:37
Just, you know, I don't have to be on the top team, But, you
23:39
know, I'd, I'd, I hate just sitting here.
23:42
Yeah, so I'd do that. But pretty much all four years
23:47
at Ithaca College. I, I, I jumped.
23:48
Yeah. What?
23:49
What? Kind.
23:50
I'm always interested in this. What kind of athlete were you?
23:53
And what I mean by that is it it's easy for us and I'm going
23:57
to say today, but my generation of coaches, we were doing that.
24:01
We were making the same statements of where we say, oh,
24:03
these athletes, they don't know. They don't do any studying of
24:06
their event. They don't know who in your in
24:08
your case, they don't know who the top high jumpers are.
24:10
They don't know blah, blah, blah, blah, blah, blah.
24:12
What kind of athlete were you? Did you know, and this kind of
24:15
goes through high school and college here for this question,
24:17
did you know who the other good high jumpers in the area region
24:20
were? Did you know who the Olympic
24:21
champion was? Did you know what the world
24:23
record? What, like were you a, a a high
24:26
jump track nerd or were you just like, yeah man, a high jump?
24:30
Yeah, it's kind of first of all, I would say if I was coaching
24:33
myself, I feel like I would hate it.
24:35
Like I would just, I could not stand myself just thinking about
24:38
like the things that I was doing and just like the mentality I
24:42
had. And I guess which is part of the
24:44
reason why I got into coaching to kind of help people not make
24:46
that same mistake. But no, I don't I, I obviously
24:49
knew the the guys I was competing against, but outside
24:53
my little bubble, I don't think of of, you know, of upstate New
24:56
York. I don't think I really knew too
24:57
many of other high jumpers now. Yeah.
25:00
So you knew like. Going into the meet, you'd look
25:02
at the roster and be like, oh, OK, I'm 4th or 5th supposedly on
25:06
this paper, whatever, blah, blah, blah.
25:07
Or if there was like maybe you had a stud, you went to a
25:10
meeting and there was like a, you know, guy who jumped 610 or
25:12
seven, you're like, oh, OK, well, second place ain't bad.
25:14
Maybe if I can get that. You know, you kind of knew that,
25:16
but you didn't know like, oh, it takes such and such to win the
25:19
state. Or when you got into college,
25:25
the the national champ jumps XY or Z and I don't know who
25:27
necessarily qualified for Olympic.
25:29
You didn't know I, I would call that track nerdom.
25:31
You know, you didn't really kind of go that far.
25:34
It is weird like. I try and I was thinking about
25:36
this a couple years ago. I feel like I didn't really even
25:39
know. I think it was mainly because
25:41
our our team at the time would occasionally maybe send because
25:45
it was a Division Three program. It still isn't.
25:48
And we'd maybe send like one guy every two.
25:52
The women had would send a lot more to the national
25:54
championships. But I feel like I didn't even
25:56
know the national championships were a thing for some reason.
25:58
So like I was more focused on off 'cause I knew I, I didn't
26:03
really knew what know what that taker kind of 'cause it just
26:05
wasn't a thing with in our program.
26:08
And now looking back, I was like, wow, I'd I'd had some stud
26:11
women that I was teammates with that I didn't even know they
26:14
were that good. Like we had national champions
26:17
and I just, I was like, Oh no, that's Emma.
26:19
Like I I know her like she's on my team but and she's good, but
26:22
I didn't realize she was not good and and what year?
26:24
Is it what? What year are you in college
26:26
years? Are you in college?
26:29
20 Fall. 2010 to spring 2014, yeah, that's.
26:32
Not that long ago. That's, that's interesting to me
26:35
because I, I think sometimes we and, and you know, social media,
26:39
social media certainly has, you know, 10X to 100X since 2014,
26:44
let's say, But sometimes we, we think because there's so much
26:48
information out there, it's like, man, how you know, these
26:51
kids, they know everything. They know what it takes and, or,
26:53
or at least they should, you know, this, this 6 foot 6 high
26:56
jumper shouldn't be coming to me asking for a full ride when it
26:58
takes 7 two to make the D3 national or whatever, you know
27:01
what I'm saying? And it's like, man, you know,
27:03
you're fairly intelligent guy here if, you know, kind of
27:06
understand things are going. And here you were like, man, I
27:08
didn't really know necessarily thing.
27:10
And and you're in it, you're involved.
27:11
It's not like you're, you know, one you're on the team one year.
27:14
You're not like you're on the team.
27:15
And it's kind of like, yeah, well, you know, that's Emma.
27:18
It's just interesting on that. Yeah.
27:19
I think there's some like some empathy lessons.
27:22
I think there sometimes for our kids that each kid is on the
27:26
team for a different reason. And some are on there because
27:30
they want to be a national champion or they want to be an
27:32
Olympian. And then others, you know, I, I
27:35
like being part of a team. I like improving.
27:37
I like the physical health aspect of it.
27:39
I like my coach. And that's, that's not bad
27:41
either. You know, gosh, I don't, I don't
27:44
know if, if a coach could handle 100.
27:47
How'd you say 100 kids, however many kids that all were hard
27:50
driven, wanted to be and and had maybe the some ability to be
27:54
national champ or like that would kind of drive you a little
27:57
bit crazy too. Like that's its own set of
28:00
toughness, if you will, as a coach.
28:02
So it's just interesting to me that, you know, it's not that
28:05
long ago and you're like, yeah, you know, maybe I thought maybe
28:08
there's a change. I don't know.
28:09
Yeah, I don't know. I don't want you to get me
28:11
wrong. It's not that I wasn't
28:12
competitive. I knew the I had my target.
28:14
That's no, no, no, that's different.
28:16
That's different. Yeah.
28:17
Yeah, I kind of I felt. Like I kind of lived in my in my
28:19
little bubble, like conference conference was really important
28:22
to us and kind of like our region and I knew I had my my
28:26
targets that I was competitive with and kind of knew where I
28:28
stood. And but yeah, for some reason, I
28:31
never really looked outside of that.
28:32
And as soon as I got in coaching, that was like an
28:36
ultimate goal of mine. It's like, let's go to there,
28:38
you know, because that was kind of the culture of the the
28:40
program I was in. But just interesting.
28:42
Now it just and it just wasn't kind of we weren't really
28:45
bringing a lot of guys to the meets at that time.
28:47
So it wasn't really something that maybe I thought was
28:52
attainable just because, yeah, that that what you're.
28:56
Describing there is culture and, and, and that's not a bad
28:59
culture necessarily, you know, that that might have been a bad
29:02
culture for someone who was, oh man, I know what it takes to
29:05
make nationals. I I'm a centimeter away.
29:08
I'm going to go to, to, to Ithaca, like, Oh yeah, that
29:12
that, that, you know, the culture is going to have to
29:14
change for you to be, for this to be a positive experience.
29:17
I'm not sure that's going to be a real good fit there.
29:20
So culturally, yeah, that's what you're describing as culture and
29:22
that there's nothing wrong with it.
29:23
Cultures are culture unless there's a bad culture of like,
29:26
you know, we beat our athletes or something like that.
29:28
No cultures are bad in that sense.
29:30
So that's just the culture that it was then.
29:32
I it could be, I mean, that's 10 years ago.
29:34
It could be and probably is a lot different today in 2024 or
29:37
2025 S in your cultures, they adapt.
29:40
They they, they grow in some regress.
29:42
So, OK, you mentioned you didn't even really know until you're
29:47
you're such a late bloomer. I love this.
29:49
You said you didn't even really know until like January of your
29:51
senior year that you might want to go into coaching.
29:54
So what what changed the the light switch?
29:57
What went from like, yeah, I'm kind of trying to figure out
29:59
what I want to be to like, oh, I want to be a track coach.
30:02
What? What happened?
30:04
I think it was kind of like very much like kind of I was saying
30:09
before where whatever kind of leadership that I, I would have
30:12
in front of me, I would very much follow that.
30:13
And my junior and senior year I had a, it was one of my
30:20
teammates who was a couple years old and me and he, he had stayed
30:25
to be a grad assistant and then he stayed an extra year for for
30:28
me to graduate. And then he went on, but he was
30:31
getting into coaching and I could see how passionate it was
30:33
for him. And I kind of like followed in
30:37
his footsteps a little bit. And I think the more I kind of
30:40
thought about it my senior as as graduation was approaching and
30:43
kind of thinking more about it, I was seeing what he was doing
30:45
and seeing how much he loved get to do.
30:47
And I was like, you still get to come to practice every day and
30:49
kind of work with us. And like, this is awesome.
30:51
And I remember it was, I think we had to meet in January at
30:57
Cornell because they were right on the other hill.
31:02
And I remember I would after every meet, I would call my dad
31:04
and kind of give him updates. And I was like, you know, dad, I
31:06
think I want to get into coaching.
31:09
And he had been in kind of the college realm because even after
31:13
he was done with his career, he would, he would umpire, you
31:21
know, as a part time gig and he would be around college
31:25
athletics a lot. And he knew a lot of, you know,
31:28
the college coaches in the area and he kind of was pretty gave
31:32
it to me straight. He's like, if you want to get in
31:33
coaching, first couple years, the first part of your career is
31:37
going to be pretty tough. You're going to be paying some
31:38
dues. It's going to suck, but
31:40
eventually it'll work out. And but it, it's an awesome
31:43
career. It's a really rewarding career.
31:44
But do know that it's it's going to be pretty hard.
31:48
And that's something that my coach would say once I kind of
31:50
approached him about it. And he would always just remind,
31:53
he would just, he would always just say, he's like, we don't do
31:56
this for the money, We don't do this for the money.
31:58
He's like, that's not why we get into coaching.
32:01
If that's why you're getting into coaching, you're in the
32:03
wrong sport or maybe just in the wrong field just in general.
32:06
So I think it was that or just kind of seeing the people around
32:09
me and I, I think that the, the, the, the parental kind of jeans
32:14
kind of kicked in, kind of that light bulb kind of went off.
32:16
And but the grad assistant, Chris Wilbur, he was, he was
32:21
kind of like the first mentor of mine, whereas once I had also
32:26
let him know that and the media is like, you need to take all
32:29
these courses. You need to read all the stuff
32:31
by Boo, you need to roll all the stuff by Dan, Dan Paffen.
32:35
I need to know these guys always like look them up, find anything
32:37
you can read and, you know, take all these level 1 level twos,
32:42
you know, all the specialist courses.
32:43
So I just, whatever he told me to do, at that point, I was, I
32:46
was doing it. Tell me what that actually
32:50
means, because you're in your senior year still, right?
32:53
And, and I guess maybe this is a journey because you said senior
32:56
year and he, he stayed through his grad assistant and things
32:59
like that. When he, when you say he said,
33:02
you know, go read everything from Boo, everything from Dan,
33:05
both podcast alums, by the way. So if you're listening and you
33:07
want to know more about those two amazing people, same app
33:10
you're using now, search their names.
33:12
They're amazing individuals. Go to level 1, things like that.
33:15
What was like, because what you just described right there in
33:17
that 30 seconds, that's a lot like some people don't do all
33:20
that in a career. How did that actually live out?
33:23
Like did you like that summer go do it all or is this over a
33:26
couple years you did this. How did you actually live that
33:28
out? Definitely over a couple.
33:30
Years, that first summer, it was kind of, I did a Level 1.
33:34
I remember I went to that on Long Island.
33:38
And then it was just kind of reading articles.
33:40
And then by the time I was also trying to apply for jobs, trying
33:43
to see if I can even get a coaching job.
33:46
And then it was kind of, I want to say kind of every two to
33:50
three years, I would do kind of a major kind of coaching
33:52
development. So I would do something.
33:54
Plus I was paying for this all out of pocket, so I couldn't do
33:56
it all at once too. So every two or three years I
34:00
would do kind of a major coaching development, coaching
34:02
education. So it kind of gave me some time
34:05
to digest it and kind of see if I can implement it and then then
34:08
try and make it a step further. So it definitely wasn't all at
34:11
once, but I he would like I said, he was very excited about
34:16
coaching, just getting started and excited that I was kind of,
34:21
you know, admiring what he was doing and wanted to follow in
34:23
his footsteps. So, you know, he was someone
34:25
that really kind of pushed me and guide me in the right
34:28
direction. And yeah, it's been it's been
34:31
over years. And still to his dad, like I was
34:33
talking to him a couple weeks ago and we were just, I feel bad
34:37
every time I talk to him. We're usually just talking
34:39
about, you know, workouts and training.
34:41
And I always have to stop myself as like, let's just what are you
34:44
doing? Right.
34:46
Yeah. And we've made close.
34:47
We were. Both both in each other's
34:48
weddings. So we're we're that's.
34:51
Awesome. That is the that's the power of
34:52
the sport right there. I love that.
34:55
Yeah, I asked that because, you know, I could see his exuberance
34:58
of like, oh, OK, you want to do this?
34:59
Awesome. Here's what I've done, Go do
35:02
this, blah, blah, blah, you know, read and, and things like
35:03
that. And we tend to do, I don't know
35:05
if it's, it must be human nature.
35:07
We tend to do that with a lot of things, whether it's hobbies or
35:09
jobs. We, we find something that we,
35:11
you know, maybe we finally find something we want to do, or
35:13
maybe even younger, we, we get interest in something and then
35:16
we just dive in and it's easy to, you know, 1, you start maybe
35:21
having some imposter syndrome of like, well, there's so much to
35:23
learn. I'll never learn at all.
35:25
And, and that is true. The goal is not to learn at all.
35:28
The goal is to learn, you know, and continue to be a learner.
35:30
So I just wondered like, like, did you just dive all in and
35:34
like, how does that make you feel or have you spaced it out
35:36
and continue to know that, hey, there's still a lot to learn out
35:39
there and I continue doing. That's what it sounds like is
35:41
the the ladder for you. It's like, Yep, I continue to do
35:43
it and continue learning on on how to coach.
35:46
There's definitely. Sometimes where I did a deep
35:48
dive, but like I said, really on it was kind of the financial end
35:51
that kind of held me back a little bit.
35:54
Cuz I, the first couple, you know, courses and specialist
35:58
courses, I paid out of pocket and just said I was like, this
36:02
is what I just think of it as an investment, right?
36:05
But then there were times like COVID, like I had nothing to do.
36:07
So I just, I did as much as I possibly could during that time.
36:10
But there, there are some sports where I'll get really excited
36:13
about stuff and I just, I'll forget to eat, you know?
36:17
Hey, you know what? That is one thing I have not
36:19
experienced where I've forgotten to eat.
36:21
I've I'm always doing things like, well, OK, when do I eat?
36:23
It's always spaced out that way. Do you remember as an athlete?
36:29
There you are. Do you remember as an athlete
36:30
when you kind of decided, OK, I want to be a you know, probably
36:34
first started out, maybe I think I want to be a OK, maybe this is
36:37
it. And then, you know, eventually
36:38
it becomes a solidified I want to be a coach.
36:41
Do you remember athlete Brendan? Like when you would go to that
36:46
practice? Let's it's usually not a cut and
36:47
drive, but let's just for example, say cut and drive
36:49
Monday. I'm I'm I don't know what I
36:51
really want to do Tuesday. I know I want to be a coach.
36:54
Monday practice for Brendan typically is I just do what
36:59
coach tells me to do. Did you did you notice any
37:03
change in your mindset of like how you were paying attention to
37:07
what coach was saying? Like, oh, coach for a high
37:09
jumper, we did box jumps and we did this many sets and reps I
37:14
wonder why we did that. And then the next day we didn't
37:17
do that, but we did accelerate like why did we do that?
37:19
Why did why are we away from the high jump pit?
37:21
Did you did you notice yourself starting to get curious about
37:24
why we're doing the workouts? Not just OK athlete go do
37:27
workout. Yeah, definitely.
37:29
I think one of the first things that I remember I started doing
37:32
is it was like every day, my code in the locker room, he
37:36
would staple up the, the plan for the day.
37:39
I remember at the end of the day I would start taking them and
37:41
keeping them with me. And I, I probably if I looked
37:44
hard enough, I could probably find the folder of just all the,
37:47
the workouts and stuff 'cause like you said, it would just go
37:50
to tell me to do it and I would go do it.
37:51
And, you know, didn't really think anything else of it.
37:53
And now I'm like trying to have something to reference to and
37:57
kind of look back knowing that, you know, six months, you know,
38:01
six months from now, a year from now, I'm going to be on the
38:04
opposite end of it and kind of want to know what I'm I'm doing.
38:07
So started collecting that. And like, like I said, I had my
38:11
friend Chris who had, he was someone that I would, he was
38:15
someone I was kind of directly, he was direct more directly
38:17
coaching me. So I knew I would always have
38:19
him to kind of, you know, bounce ideas off of or kind of ask, you
38:24
know, in my even remotely in the going in the right direction
38:26
with with what I'm doing here. So that was definitely I was
38:30
starting to paying attention to what we were doing and, and I
38:35
yes, started to ask a few more questions of and trying to
38:37
figure out like what the the method behind the madness of
38:40
what was going on. We.
38:41
We. Learned a a fairly valuable
38:44
lesson, I think way back with Cameron Babb.
38:47
He's the head coach of Washburn University in Kansas.
38:50
And he he was a decathlete and went into coaching and what we
38:55
kind of learned was, you know, as an athlete, to be an athlete,
38:59
whether you're trying to be Olympian, gold medalist or just
39:02
trying to be on the team, it's a very selfish pursuit.
39:05
And what I mean by that, and that's not a bad thing.
39:07
What I mean by that is when coach tells you do this, you're
39:10
internalizing, OK, how I do this, when I do this, etcetera
39:14
will make me better in my event. It's a selfish.
39:17
It's like, how does it, how does it improve me?
39:19
Coaching in that aspect of learning and getting better is a
39:23
selfless you're you're, you're inputting what you've learned
39:26
from Bouche Schneider, an article you read what coach is
39:30
telling me now you're inputting it in like, OK, now how do I get
39:34
it out of me to help an athlete? So it's, it's it's not, you
39:37
know, how do I become a better high jumper when I'm a coach?
39:39
It's how do I learn, how do I take what I just learned and now
39:42
go make my high jumpers better? So that's why I always ask when
39:48
you go from like, oh, I don't know what I want to be too.
39:50
Oh, I want to be a coach. Now you look at those those
39:55
workouts differently now instead of the box jumps because that'll
39:58
make me a better jumper. It's like, oh, why are we doing
40:01
those box jumps? Because you're starting to
40:02
collect data of what I'm what I might do for a future athletes
40:06
that might be under my tutelage out there.
40:08
So it's really important that that difference of selfishness
40:11
to selflessness that comes from athlete over over to coach.
40:16
Go through senior year you you finally found what you know has
40:20
probably been a path for you. You find coaching What?
40:23
What did you end up getting your degree in environmental?
40:26
Studies, of course, because. That's, you know, when we think
40:30
about traditionally becoming a track coach, you, you know, we
40:32
always recommend you go become an environmental studies.
40:34
Yeah, Yeah, I love it. Yeah.
40:36
So it was. I mean.
40:38
It was like like. I said like we were saying
40:40
before, if maybe if I change a different major, maybe I would
40:43
have not wanted to get a coaching.
40:44
So whatever I did worked did a lot of really cool stuff and but
40:49
I used my degree for about maybe a summer and then I went on to
40:54
get my my master's in in coaching.
40:56
So then that's when you saw like, you know, maybe low 3.0,
41:01
high 2.0 GPA to 4.0 GPA switch just cause started caring about
41:06
a little bit more. But yeah, I graduated
41:09
environmental studies, did some cool stuff, but so kind of the
41:15
same thing I do and and I bring that up with my recruits as well
41:18
as that it's OK if you don't know what to do.
41:20
Like, I was an environmental studies major and I coach
41:22
collegiate track and field, you know, and it's.
41:26
I, I, I love that because if we were to talk to 14 year olds
41:31
ourselves and they say I want to be a, a track coach, we, you
41:34
know, you probably, Oh, well then you probably need to go
41:36
major in bio mechanics or physics or, you know, maybe most
41:40
certainly, at the least, you need to go study physical
41:45
education teacher type of thing. You know, you know, that that's
41:48
probably how we'd recommend it. We, we rarely recommend to a
41:50
kid. Hey, yeah, go be an
41:51
environmental studies major or print journalism, public
41:54
relations. We probably wouldn't recommend
41:56
that at all. But yet those paths can lead to
41:59
not only coaching, but coaching at a, at a very well, high level
42:02
as well. So I, I love that story.
42:03
That's that, that's what part of this podcast is the show someone
42:06
right now we, we have a fairly young audience that listens as
42:09
well. So there's plenty of athletes
42:10
that listen and there's probably someone listen right now
42:12
thinking, Oh, I can't be a track coach.
42:14
I'm a I'm a math major. What what do you mean that I'm
42:17
not a a bio mechanics, etcetera, biology.
42:20
I'm not that I can't be a track coach.
42:22
And they learn from people like you like, oh, wait a minute,
42:25
that's not that. That doesn't necessarily limit
42:27
me because of the great coaching education that we have, in my
42:30
opinion, that you can go on to become not only become a, a
42:34
track coach, but become a, a really highly successful track
42:38
coach. That's really cool.
42:39
I, I, I love that your environmental studies and not
42:41
biology or, or what not, you know, traditional track coach.
42:45
So where do you begin? You graduate with environmental
42:50
studies, You now feel like you have a path.
42:52
What's the first step to going down that coaching path?
42:57
So that summer I ended up taking a A level one with USATF and
43:01
that was kind of like my first intro to coaching education.
43:06
I know. Yeah, I agree.
43:07
I I feel like how how did you? Sorry.
43:09
I want to interrupt. Do you remember who your
43:11
teachers were and how did you like that?
43:14
Meaning you came from a jumps background, you know, high
43:17
school through and you did some running of course, but level 1,
43:20
which is awesome, by the way, if, if you were thinking about
43:22
doing level 1, I highly recommend.
43:25
I didn't have USTFCA courses when I was growing up through
43:30
coaching, but those are awesome too.
43:31
But I, I had the USATF ones and they're just, they're really
43:33
fundamental. So I really do recommend them,
43:36
but they're tough, at least when I did.
43:37
Maybe it's changed. You tell me level 1.
43:40
I remember being, you know, you start Friday afternoon, you go
43:43
all the way through Sunday and it's every event there's a block
43:45
of distance, there's a block of throwing and it can be a little,
43:50
you know, typically we go because we want to be a jumps
43:52
coach, but I got to sit through some distance guys or some
43:56
throws guys or, or whatnot and it can be a little tough.
43:59
How did you deal with the variety in in a very short,
44:04
compact amount of time, Yeah, no.
44:07
I cannot for some reason. That's the only probably maybe
44:12
just because it was so long ago. That was probably the only
44:15
coaching education that I can't remember who the the instructors
44:19
were. I did make the the the switch
44:22
from USATF to USTFCCCAI mean after yeah, the the the two when
44:30
it kind of more booze boat. But yeah, no, I think I kind of
44:34
went into it like trying to 'cause there's definitely I
44:38
remember some people in the courses that were very heavily
44:42
like, you know, distance runner. I'm here to focus on that
44:45
distance. And, you know, I remember
44:47
leaving and going to my car after the last day and one of
44:52
the guys was kind of like, oh, that was kind of a waste.
44:54
Like, you know, I wanted to really learn about the X and OS.
44:57
It just is running and we're learning about everything else.
44:59
And I was like, that was awesome.
45:01
Like I don't know what you're talking about.
45:03
Probably one of the. Most common statements.
45:05
Is that right there? Oh, what a waste of time.
45:07
I wanted to go deeper into XY and Z.
45:09
It's like, bro, this is level 1. You're going to get a a little
45:12
bit, you're going to get a good amount of everything though, but
45:14
not D. That's what level 2 etcetera is
45:17
for. That's number one.
45:18
I, I taught a 30 something level 1.
45:20
So I I had to deal with that question, that comment all the
45:23
time. I think I and I just with any
45:27
professional development, even if I've heard the same stuff a
45:30
million times, I'm sure there's at least something I can pull
45:32
out of it that's beneficial. So even if we're talking at
45:35
because at the time same thing very, I guess miss not
45:41
misguided, but kind of just oblivious of what real life is
45:45
like. I, I just assumed I was
45:47
immediately gonna go into the field and only be a high jump
45:50
coach for the rest of my life. Like I thought that and I found
45:52
out very quickly that does not exist.
45:54
Interesting. Yeah, so I was.
45:57
Thinking like, you know, I could probably, you know, there's got
46:00
to be some type of commodalities through all of these that I can
46:03
pull from. So that was kind of the
46:05
mentality I went to. And, you know, I was so excited
46:07
to get started that I loved every second of it.
46:11
But yeah, I did that and I enjoyed it.
46:16
I know there was a coach from Army at the time.
46:19
He's the only guy I can remember, I can remember his
46:21
face. I can't remember his name.
46:24
And then just start applying for I remember I had a a job
46:28
interview, the drive home from that course, like I was just
46:31
applying to as many jobs as I could, jobs I had no business
46:35
applying to. And the only and again, very
46:41
grateful. And it's kind of, you know,
46:43
thinking about another moment where if I did not get this
46:48
opportunity, where would I have, would I have just given up or
46:51
would I have gone to coach high school?
46:52
But the only person, and it was very fortunate too, because it
46:57
was close to home. The, the only person that gave
47:01
me a chance was where I started was at the United States Coast
47:05
Guard Academy with head coach Ethan Brown.
47:07
He kind of, he gave me my very first shot and very first
47:11
opportunity and became another very first mentor that to this
47:15
day where we're, I, I haven't coached with him and six are
47:21
going on 7 years now, but we're, we're still remaining pretty
47:24
close and talk all the time. But you know, super grateful for
47:27
him because I had no other, Oh no other no jobs lined up
47:33
outside of hams toes. It was great.
47:35
So you go to the coast. Guard, how many years were you
47:37
there? I was there for four years.
47:40
What? What's it like?
47:41
I don't know much about the Coast Guard Academy.
47:43
I know less about the Coast Guard Academy than I do like,
47:47
USA, the Air Force Academy, Army Naval Academy.
47:52
Yeah, I, I know a little bit about those.
47:54
What what's I don't know much about the Coast Guard Academy.
47:57
What's it like coaching there? What kind of, what kind of kids
47:59
go to the Coast Guard Academy? What?
48:01
Tell us about that. So yeah, it's it's very similar
48:04
to all the other military academies.
48:08
The only difference with Coast Guard is their Division Three
48:10
versus the other 3 military academies are Division One.
48:14
And it's definitely a very different type of type of kid
48:18
that you're working with. Very regimented, very dedicated.
48:25
I remember there was times when I was coaching someone and they
48:29
looked it, they looked at me and they said coach.
48:32
That's the opposite of anything I've ever been told before, but
48:35
I'll try it. So it's like you're working with
48:38
those kind of kids that will kind of do whatever.
48:39
And they, so it's, it's funny, it's always the and it's always
48:45
the, the first years you get a lot of yes sirs, no sirs.
48:49
And then after a couple months those go away.
48:52
But it was a great group. And like I said, I was there for
48:55
four years and it's the same coaching staff that was there
48:59
when I was there. So a lot of consistency with
49:01
them. And it was definitely hard
49:05
leaving. That was the first program that
49:06
I had left. So it's hard leaving a, a group
49:10
like that. But I love my time there.
49:12
And if, if I could have stayed I, I would have.
49:14
So you're there for four? Years and coach.
49:16
Just the high jump, right? No.
49:18
So I that's what I thought and I showed up.
49:22
I had one high jumper, I think 6 pole vaulters and maybe like 2
49:28
long and triple jumpers. And pole vault was an event that
49:32
I never thought. Of course, Yeah, yeah.
49:35
Never thought I would. Get into What do you do?
49:39
So. We actually had that first year
49:43
and Nathan was really good about this too and he was always
49:45
promoting me to try and learn as much as I could and do as much
49:49
as I could. So I remember my first year, he
49:52
encouraged me to go to, there is a local pole vault club nearby
49:56
and I would just sit in on practice and just kind of watch
49:58
what they were doing and kind of I would take notes of of the
50:05
things the coaches were saying. And then we had also brought in
50:10
a volunteer to work with the vaulters that year.
50:13
And I just kind of hung around practice and just kind of watch
50:16
what they were doing, listen to what they were talking about,
50:18
just trying to find common ground for what I was looking
50:23
at. So I would train them or kind of
50:26
facilitate their practices. And then they would move off
50:28
technical days, kind of work with the vault stuff.
50:32
So that was my first year and then the second year Ethan just
50:36
threw me right into it, he said. You're coaching the vault now,
50:38
you're coaching all the jumps now and I am extremely grateful
50:43
for him for doing that to me. Kind of threw me right into the
50:46
fire doing that to. Me, yeah.
50:49
And, and now the, the vault's one of my I, I love coaching the
50:52
vault, you know, and, and I in pole vault, pole vault community
50:55
is kind of interesting where I feel like it's all it's one of
50:58
those two where if you weren't a vaulter, you you kind of get
51:02
some weird looks like what how you going to coach the vault?
51:03
You know what you're doing so and the competitive and I feel
51:06
like I was just as competitive and still am as a coach as I was
51:11
as an athlete. So when I would hear that, I'm
51:13
like, Oh yeah, watch me, watch me become the best pole vault
51:15
coach that you've ever had. So same type of thing.
51:19
I, that was when I did a deep dive into a lot of I, I bought
51:23
every coaching DVD that I could on the pole vault, all the
51:27
articles I could watch and try to implement it.
51:29
And one of the big things that I didn't just trying to find
51:33
commonalities between what I was doing with all.
51:35
So I pretty much coach all and I still do it today.
51:38
I coach all the jumpers the same.
51:40
And then when it's time to do technical stuff, we'll split off
51:42
and trying to just kind of stick to the basics of it and getting
51:46
faster, being more explosive, being more athletic.
51:48
And obviously the, the technical stuff came as the years went on.
51:54
So and, and Ethan was great with that too.
51:56
And he would always, even when once I got into rhythm with all
51:59
that, he would, he would always tell me it was when your
52:02
practice was over, I want you to come over to the throat circle.
52:05
I want you to come over down hurdles.
52:06
And I want you to just watch and see what's going on.
52:09
Because and, and I add from that, I always try and have that
52:15
I guess as my mentality. Whereas there's, it's like every
52:20
couple years I'm trying to add a new event to my repertoire.
52:23
After that, you know, where I went on obviously getting all
52:27
the, the, the jumping events under my belt and now I'm
52:30
thinking about hurdles, I'm thinking about sprints and now
52:32
I'm thinking about throws and coaching the multis, you know,
52:35
and just trying to be more of a multi tool, I guess.
52:39
Did you you know the pole vault is a unique event?
52:43
It's, it's one of those where like people hang on the pole
52:48
vault for a long time. Like there's a lot more masters
52:51
vaulters and I think there are masters throwers that who
52:54
originated that did you as you've gone through and you
52:57
know, obviously have, you know, picked up the vault as a coat.
53:00
Like you're maybe maybe you're a real vault coach now, but have
53:03
you actually tried it? Like have you like, oh, let me
53:06
see what what this feels like. There are there are two
53:10
practices. I jumped in and attempted how to
53:13
go. It was fine.
53:17
It was I, I think I jumped, maybe I think I was 9 feet was 9
53:21
foot Bungie. Was, yeah, but.
53:24
It, it was all right, it was fine, but it was just kind of,
53:27
you know, especially the first couple years, like trying to
53:31
have fun and kind of showing them what they were doing and,
53:34
you know, show them how much I'm like, I bought into it.
53:36
Like they, they and I was, and especially my first couple
53:38
years, they, they, that, that group knew kind of my background
53:42
and you know, I was upfront, honest, I wasn't trying to fake
53:45
it and kind of tell them. And I was like, I was like,
53:48
look, like I'm figuring this out as we go.
53:50
And like, you know, we're going to learn together and do it and,
53:54
you know, yeah. What I was getting at was the
53:57
the vault is just a unique event.
53:58
It calls a a lot of people out of curiosity, if if you were to
54:03
have gone and coached the the hurdles and, and you would have
54:07
told me that, yeah, but I know I've never actually gone over a
54:09
hurdle. I I wouldn't be surprised.
54:11
Like be like, Oh yeah, of course that's hurdles, man, kill
54:13
yourself. You know, when you say, yeah, I
54:14
I had to learn how to coach the vault, I'm immediately like, oh,
54:17
I've heard the story before. You went and tried to do it
54:19
right. I mean, come on.
54:19
Like everybody wants to be like, well, what's it feel like?
54:21
You know, So what I'm curious about is, and we recently had
54:25
Brett Halter head coach at University of Mizzou on, who has
54:28
become, you know, arguably one of the top throws coaches
54:32
around. And he was a distance runner by
54:34
trade through all through high school and college.
54:37
And so I'll ask you the same question I asked him.
54:42
And you're still early ask in your coaching, meaning, you
54:45
know, you got a long runway ahead of you here, bub.
54:49
You're, you're, you're young in here.
54:51
Do you think at least at this point in your career, not doing
54:55
the pole vault as an athlete has helped you become a good pole
54:59
vault coach? Or do you feel a little bit of a
55:03
hindrance because you, you don't know how it feels, right?
55:05
Like you have not physically gone through the motions to jump
55:09
12/13/14 or higher feet. Do you think at this point your
55:12
career it's helped you because there can be some positives from
55:15
that? Or is it more hindering you as a
55:18
as a vault coach not not participating as an athlete?
55:22
I would say probably maybe in those first couple years like it
55:25
was tough. I feel like it was tough to get
55:29
by in not necessarily good by, but sometime it with with some
55:32
athletes, it'd be tough to get by.
55:33
You're not. You're not.
55:34
Part of the club because it is a club, I mean this is the pole
55:37
vault is a, a very unique event. I mean more unique than any
55:42
distance event, throws event, etcetera.
55:44
It is a very unique event. So you you found yourself maybe
55:47
having a little bit more air quotes here.
55:50
Prove yourself. You're like, yeah, OK, Bernie,
55:52
you're not a vaulter. What are you?
55:53
How are you going to tell me? But I think it's kind of like
55:56
where I had to go from it with myself trying to figure it out,
56:00
had to go from a bit more of a developmental kind of mindset
56:04
where I I'm going, I'm trying to teach myself from square one.
56:09
Like how is this supposed to look?
56:11
How is this supposed to go? How is this supposed to feel?
56:14
And sometimes, yes, trying to test it out and kind of do
56:17
different drills and different things and they wasn't always
56:22
pretty, but at least trying to in my head try and feel it out
56:27
and kind of go through the motion just kind of standing
56:29
there. And I would also ask questions.
56:31
I feel like even I've always been more of a cooperative style
56:36
in my coaching where I feel like even even to today, like when
56:42
someone's coming off a jump or coming off anything before I'm
56:45
even telling them what happened, I'm, I'm asking, trying to get
56:47
feedback from them, you know, and usually how did that feel?
56:50
You know what? And so I ask a lot of those
56:52
questions a lot through practice and what did that?
56:54
What does it feel like that? And I was like, do you feel like
56:56
you can get into this position? What are the challenges of
56:59
getting into this position to end just, I guess asking more
57:04
questions because I couldn't necessarily feel it all the time
57:07
or haven't felt it or knew what it was like.
57:09
So trying to go, you know, my Oval age was at the infant stage
57:15
and trying to figure it out from a baby.
57:17
And I, I felt like the more that I could understand it from that
57:21
sense is that as I built daunted and over the years, I've can
57:27
almost tell you exactly how it felt, you know, because I've
57:30
gone through every different kind of level of it.
57:33
And obviously. There's, there's always things
57:34
that I'm still not sure about, you know, and you know, I was a
57:37
high jumper. I'm still not sure about things
57:39
with the high jump, you know, and it just kind of, kind of
57:40
look at that. And with, like I said, with my
57:44
high school coach and he was the throws guy and one of the best
57:47
high jump coaches I ever had, you know, and kind of look at
57:50
that with that mentality And I same thing.
57:53
I, I, I feel like I keep saying that I'm going back to like
57:55
during recruiting. It's like in the recruiting
57:58
state especially it's, I feel like with a lot of the technical
58:00
events, more so in, in Connecticut where we are or the
58:04
Northeast, there's not many technical coaches in the, in the
58:07
high school realm. So a lot of times when I'm
58:10
recruiting someone, either their parent or them will say it's
58:13
like, yeah, like I have a coach, but you know, they're more of a
58:16
distance person. So I'm kind of teaching myself
58:18
and, you know, don't really know what I do.
58:20
So I'm excited when I get here. And I was like, so and I, I feel
58:25
like now I'm I've and always kind of jump into the fence of
58:28
those high school coaches. They're like, look, that one
58:30
person is probably coaching 115 other people like you're lucky
58:34
and this they're working a full time job on top of that, you're
58:36
lucky they're even there, first of all.
58:39
And and then I tell him I was like, my jumps coach was a
58:42
throws guy and he by just investing time, he did that with
58:47
me. And I remember Boo saying
58:49
something similar where, you know, it was one of his athletes
58:52
like saying like, you know, like, oh, coach, everything
58:56
you're doing is great. Like my, my high school coach
58:58
didn't know what they were talking about.
58:59
Like, like, I'm getting so much better working with you.
59:01
And he was got on them immediately saying like your
59:05
high school coach got you here. It's like seems like they did a
59:07
pretty good job, you know, so trying to always kind of remind
59:12
the. Thing that is.
59:14
Thank God. We don't have to do the event to
59:18
coach it. And you know, you, you could
59:20
easily say, thank God we don't have to be really, really good
59:22
at the event to become a coach in it, right.
59:26
You know, I hear a lot of people when they didn't do the event,
59:29
they got to coach it. Talk about like, yeah, I don't
59:32
know how I feel, how it felt. So I have to ask a lot like, and
59:35
you were saying like, you know, how did that feel?
59:37
And but I don't have any of the bad habits either.
59:39
That's always the caveats. Like, well, I don't, I didn't
59:41
grow up to learn the bad habits. I like your take on it's like,
59:44
Oh yes, since I didn't know how it felt, I just have to ask a
59:46
lot more questions. You know, how did it feel?
59:48
What did you, what did you try to do here?
59:50
And I think that's like a super positive because a lot of times
59:53
we can get into where we know how to coach the event.
59:55
And so we stop asking questions and start barking out more
59:58
orders. I think staying curious and
1:00:01
having to ask questions, I think that's an asset that that'll be
1:00:04
something that you'll have to work on as you continue to
1:00:07
increase your confidence. You know you'll you'll become a
1:00:09
master level pole ball coach here, you know, at some point in
1:00:11
time. But do you still ask the
1:00:13
questions? Do you still ask the 'cause you
1:00:16
know, and you've seen this, the basics of any event is like the
1:00:19
most important part. We're, we're always searching,
1:00:21
you know, for the 1%. But if you do the 99% really,
1:00:24
really good, you could be an Olympian just for that alone,
1:00:27
right? So as you become a better and
1:00:30
better coach and stack that knowledge throughout the years,
1:00:33
that'll be the real trick for you will be Oh, do I stay
1:00:38
curious? Do I stay?
1:00:39
I, I know, I know a lot of things, but can I, I think of a
1:00:42
Dan path. That guy knows more than
1:00:43
anybody. And I don't know of anybody else
1:00:46
that ask more questions than Dan path.
1:00:48
I've seen him work with Steve Lewis, an Olympian, and I was
1:00:51
watching it with Steve and he's just asking Steve all these
1:00:53
questions. I'm like, Dan, you know these,
1:00:54
what does he ask? What are you talking about?
1:00:56
Dan? You know these things.
1:00:57
And it's like, oh, he's, he's got to know what, what his
1:01:00
athlete is thinking and feeling and seeing and, and then, you
1:01:03
know, the myriad of other things that go on just beyond technique
1:01:05
and, and all that with the, with your athletes.
1:01:07
So I think it's a cool perspective that you got there.
1:01:10
I really do. I I.
1:01:11
Think it's especially now like even a lot of times I'll know
1:01:16
the answer and I'm trying to make sure that they understand
1:01:20
it. So if I'm asking and like, I, I
1:01:21
know what happened or what maybe the technical fall was, and I
1:01:25
want to make sure that they know it's, I'm sometimes I've even
1:01:27
just asking them, kind of quizzing them because like I
1:01:29
said, as I, as I approach coaching, I very much trying to
1:01:33
approach this teaching. And so like when we're, whenever
1:01:36
we're doing something, you know, I spend, I trying to spend a
1:01:39
couple, I try not to take up too much practice time 'cause my,
1:01:43
all my athletes know that I can just get on tangents and just
1:01:45
ramble and ramble and ramble. So I try not to take up too much
1:01:49
time, but at least let them understand, let them make sure
1:01:52
they understand why we're doing what we're doing so that when we
1:01:56
get into competition or when we're starting jumping, they can
1:02:00
kind of problem solve as I go. And I kind of let them know he
1:02:03
knows as we go up in the ranks, you know, maybe we start
1:02:06
qualifying for bigger, bigger meets, going to national
1:02:08
championships. You might not be able to talk to
1:02:10
me like I you might not be able to get that feedback, like I
1:02:12
might not be able to be in there.
1:02:14
Or what happens a lot with me because I'm coaching all the
1:02:17
events and some of the throwing events, I'm running around with
1:02:20
chicken with a, like a chicken with a head cut off.
1:02:22
So sometimes they have to problem solve and kind of use
1:02:24
each other to be able to figure out what's going on.
1:02:28
I have seen that where the coach through the how they coach their
1:02:33
athlete, the athlete doesn't know what to do, doesn't know
1:02:36
how to tie their shoe without coach telling them how to tie
1:02:39
their shoe. That's called learned
1:02:40
helplessness, by the way. It's not just a coach athlete
1:02:43
thing. It's a societal thing.
1:02:44
But to learned helplessness. And I can honestly say I, I, I
1:02:49
believe, I would say I've seen it more in the pole vault than
1:02:52
any other event. Maybe.
1:02:54
Honestly, this is tough to say to all my pole vaulters out
1:02:57
there, maybe more than all the other events combined.
1:03:00
Now I spend more time in the pole vault because we're, you
1:03:02
know, we're a pole vault company.
1:03:03
So maybe that's why I see that. But I see that I'm reminded of
1:03:08
one of the greatest coaches in the pole vault and the greatest
1:03:12
people that I've hung around and watched coach is Earl Bell.
1:03:16
And I remember one of the first times I saw Earl Bell coach like
1:03:20
AUS champs or Olympic trials. And there were some coaches that
1:03:24
were, you know, after each of each attempt, you know, you
1:03:27
know, 100 things. And I remember Earl Bell I, I, I
1:03:31
think it was with like Derek Miles, Derek made a bar and
1:03:34
Derek looks at him and Earl says, how'd that feel?
1:03:37
You know, Derek said, whatever. And he goes, all right, all
1:03:39
right, do it again. It was like that was it or, you
1:03:42
know, he said, all right, well, you know, maybe step back half
1:03:45
of I mean, it was like 1 very generic command, you know, go up
1:03:50
two inches on the OR what? Yeah, that pole.
1:03:52
Yeah, go to the 75. I mean, just like you're just
1:03:55
repeating the same motion over and over.
1:03:57
Just the bar gets higher. So you got to do little things
1:03:59
here, not rework the entire. If you haven't done the the work
1:04:02
365 days, you can't do it on the one day of the meet.
1:04:05
And I just remember being floored.
1:04:07
I'm watching Earl Bell coach 4, you know, probably 7 or 8 of the
1:04:11
kids and, you know, three to four of them are going to make
1:04:13
the Olympic team. And it's like, wow, like this
1:04:16
guy, he gets like he knows I can't overload the athlete.
1:04:20
Like it's got to be simplicity. And to your point, Earl may not
1:04:24
be able to make a meet or God forbid Earl gets sick or the the
1:04:29
way the facility is laid out, you can't get close to the
1:04:32
athlete. Athlete still has to perform.
1:04:35
Have you done it right in practice?
1:04:37
And your your posture towards an athlete that they know they'd
1:04:41
love to have you and they'd love to have feedback.
1:04:42
But you know what, if coaching around, well, I, I, I have to
1:04:46
have some self ownership of my events and, and make corrections
1:04:49
along the way to that learn helplessness, man.
1:04:51
It's, it's a, it's a real boogaboo, man.
1:04:53
It's, it's not a, it's not a good thing.
1:04:55
And I think it's easy for us as coaches to to do and feel like
1:04:59
we're doing it right, by the way.
1:05:01
Yeah. And like, I like them to have a
1:05:03
little ownership of what they're doing as well.
1:05:05
And sometimes we'll be at a meet and I'll say you can either, you
1:05:11
got two options. You can either do this.
1:05:12
I would suggest either doing this or this.
1:05:14
What would you rather do? And then and just let them kind
1:05:18
of go with it. You know, I like that.
1:05:19
Options thing, yeah. And then most of the time they
1:05:23
pick the one that I wanted to do.
1:05:25
So usually I usually I'm just like good choice.
1:05:26
And then I just walk away. But it gives him ownership.
1:05:29
I love that one of the things that we do here, you know, non
1:05:32
track wise here in the private sector is you know, when someone
1:05:35
will come up and they they, they have a question of whatever and
1:05:38
it's easy as the manager, as the coach to just give them the
1:05:41
answer, right? It's like, oh, I'm doing 100
1:05:43
other things. Just give them the answer and
1:05:45
let them go, right? But there's no growth in that.
1:05:48
So one of my favorite questions to ask when they come and ask
1:05:50
the question is, hey, if I weren't here today, what would
1:05:54
you do? Oh, OK, well, you know, I'd
1:05:57
probably do XYZS and if it's the right thing, it's like, cool, go
1:06:02
try it. If it's not, if it's like, whoa,
1:06:03
OK, hold on. There's there's a coaching
1:06:05
moment here and it's like, OK, well, you know, then we start
1:06:07
talking that, well, what do you think that might solicit?
1:06:10
What might their feedback come from that?
1:06:11
And we kind of talk it through. But now when they walk away and
1:06:15
I'm not there next time in a situation similar as shows up,
1:06:18
they have the experience of it, not just Mike barking out order.
1:06:21
Same thing with the coach. You give them the options or you
1:06:24
say, hey, what would you do if I weren't here?
1:06:26
They start having that ownership now when and if that time comes
1:06:29
up, because it's going to happen.
1:06:30
I, I, I mean, there's going to be some meet with yours not able
1:06:33
to talk to your athlete the way you want to talk to your
1:06:36
athletes. To your point, maybe you're
1:06:37
coaching 100 other things and you're out or you're sick or
1:06:39
something. They need to have the ownership
1:06:41
and still achieve success at a high level.
1:06:44
So I think learned helpless is a is a thing that we we should be
1:06:47
talking about as coaches. And how do we improve ourselves
1:06:51
a lot of times too? Especially at the bigger, you
1:06:53
know, championships, which you know.
1:06:56
Exists now. Yes, yes, Once I got into
1:07:02
coaching it, everything, everything flipped.
1:07:03
I was like, this is where we're going.
1:07:06
But I agree, you know, kind of culture shift where it's like
1:07:08
there's a thing. And I was like, I was watching,
1:07:10
you know, other coaches bring their athletes there and I was
1:07:12
like, I want to do that. We're going to go do that.
1:07:14
But especially in a meet like that, we're at the end of the
1:07:19
season, there's not much more that I can do to kind of help
1:07:22
you. It's I'm messing you up more
1:07:24
than me talking to you, you know, for 5 minutes in between
1:07:27
your jumps is messing you up more than you just going.
1:07:30
We had a woman, I have a, she's a sophomore now, but last year,
1:07:35
first year high jumper, she went indoor conference in the high
1:07:38
jump and in a jump off and then outdoor she was in a jump off
1:07:41
again and she was in her rhythm and she just, she is a
1:07:45
competitor. She just goes, goes, goes and
1:07:47
like it, it was phenomenal. Watch her jump and I said
1:07:51
something to her that threw her off her rhythm and after that
1:07:55
she lost the jump off. She would just kind of get up to
1:07:59
her, bark and just go in immediately.
1:08:01
I was like, slow down, take your time.
1:08:02
You got plenty of time. Like why are you rushing?
1:08:04
And as soon as she did that, she, she likely started thinking
1:08:07
about more stuff more, whereas I was saying it's like, Dang, if I
1:08:10
just let her just do her thing, she probably would have been
1:08:13
indoor and outdoor champ. But those are those lessons you
1:08:16
learn, and that's easy to kick. Yourself about there too because
1:08:19
of the the specific example, but you have other examples where
1:08:22
oh, I gave the right cue as well and that may it's it's tough.
1:08:26
You would we try to black and white this coaching thing and,
1:08:28
and a lot of times we do it out of judgement of others where we
1:08:31
say, oh, you know, if I'm sure, I hope not, but I would, you
1:08:36
know, I'm a betting man. Someone saw that example you
1:08:39
just gave there and she didn't do very well.
1:08:41
I'm sure someone on the other side because they don't know
1:08:43
what's going on. They're not, you know, my
1:08:45
favorite say in the whole world from George Williams, formerly
1:08:47
of Saint Aug's Guilt podcast alum.
1:08:49
If you're not in the huddle, you don't know the play.
1:08:51
So it's very easy to judge and be like, oh, you know, if she
1:08:53
was my athlete, she'd have jumped 6 foot set, whatever, you
1:08:56
know, because I wouldn't have told her that or whatever.
1:08:58
It's like, oh, you have no idea. You have no idea what's going on
1:09:02
in that moment. So it's easy to kick ourselves.
1:09:05
And it was a learning moment for you for sure.
1:09:08
But you know, the other side is where you've given a cue like
1:09:10
that and it's worked out perfectly.
1:09:11
So it's really it. We're dealing with humans,
1:09:14
right? So there is no black or white
1:09:16
instruction. Don't do that or do that.
1:09:19
It's you got to know that athlete.
1:09:20
And you know what, the only way you know that athletes by making
1:09:23
the mistake sometimes. Yeah, if it.
1:09:25
Worked. I would have been a genius, you
1:09:26
know? Yeah, well, we get that too,
1:09:29
where sometimes we look up and be like, I'm a genius.
1:09:31
I don't know what I did, but I'm a genius.
1:09:33
Right. All right.
1:09:34
So four years at the US Coast Guard Academy.
1:09:36
That's awesome. I love our academies and the
1:09:38
people that coached there have heard a lot of great examples
1:09:41
from there. You say there were four years.
1:09:43
Where do we go next and why? So I was at yeah, Coast Guard
1:09:47
four years, had a lot of success, had a national champion
1:09:52
in the long jump and, and, and I fully put all the credit to the,
1:09:59
the coaches association with that one that that was like
1:10:02
coming. It was like I did the my first
1:10:05
jump specialist course and then that following year I had a
1:10:08
million PRS. We had a national champion and,
1:10:11
and I remember immediately sending it was like Todd Lane,
1:10:15
Jim Van Nottigan and Boo. I sent them an e-mail like, like
1:10:18
this course was worth every penny.
1:10:20
Like thank you so much. And so I did it did another year
1:10:26
following that. And so when I was there, like I
1:10:30
said, I love my time there, but I was making 5 grand a year.
1:10:34
So I was doing that and working as a prepare a paraprofessional
1:10:42
in the the same middle school that I went to.
1:10:45
So I started like substitute. Yeah, it was all the same
1:10:47
teachers. It was funny.
1:10:49
So I started substitute teaching and then the principal was a
1:10:52
former teacher of mine at the high school and he said he's
1:10:56
like, hey, do you want to just like, you know, you connect well
1:10:59
with all the kids, Do you want to just stay and just be, you
1:11:02
know, instead of just subbing, stay and be a permanent part of
1:11:04
staff? And I was like, yeah,
1:11:06
definitely, you know, 'cause subbing was great where it's
1:11:08
like it was, you know, I'd make me like 100 bucks a day and then
1:11:11
if I didn't want to work the next day, I didn't have to, you
1:11:13
know, So that was kind of nice where but I did need to make
1:11:17
more of a grown up decision to have a little more consistency.
1:11:20
So I was doing that and that's when I realized that I did not
1:11:25
want to teach, especially not in the middle school age.
1:11:28
I was like, I need to, you know, I need to make a change here or
1:11:33
else I'm not going to be able to survive another year doing, you
1:11:38
know, working. Just a lot of stress I didn't
1:11:41
want to deal with anymore. So.
1:11:43
But are you? It's always interesting to me
1:11:47
like I think grad assistance, stay with me, grad assistance.
1:11:52
I think more grad assistance should not go into coaching.
1:11:54
And what I mean by that is it should be like this testing for
1:11:57
you, almost like an internship, right?
1:12:00
It's where you think you want to be a coach.
1:12:01
So you go in and become a grad assistant and you realize, oh,
1:12:03
Nope, that's not it. But you know, thank God I
1:12:05
studied XY and ZI can go in this profession at this point.
1:12:09
So you do four years at Coast Guard Academy.
1:12:10
That's I mean, that's a commitment.
1:12:12
Then you're doing this. Are you think about your time
1:12:15
there? Are you committed?
1:12:16
I am going to be a track coach or is there any part, even if
1:12:19
it's 1% of like, all right, well, you know, I can still go.
1:12:23
I can be a middle school teacher or I could you know what,
1:12:25
whatever, you know what I'm saying, like, are you fully like
1:12:28
this is my identity. I'm going to be a track coach or
1:12:30
is there any part still of like, well, I could still you're very
1:12:33
talented individual. I I can go over here and do
1:12:35
this. No, I was all in.
1:12:37
I was all out of the coaching, Yeah.
1:12:38
So it was, I think my third year, I started doing a master's
1:12:46
program. I did it online in coaching and
1:12:49
sports coaching. So I didn't really do the
1:12:52
traditional grad assistant route, which probably would have
1:12:56
saved me some money and maybe maybe put me on a different
1:12:59
path. But same thing I I love where I
1:13:01
ended up, so wouldn't want to change it.
1:13:04
And you know, during the time my my coach was always reaching out
1:13:06
and it's like, Hey, would do you want to come and be Aga for us?
1:13:09
And I was like, well, one, I'm I need like I need to work too,
1:13:12
Like I'm not going to be able to do that.
1:13:14
And I didn't really like the idea of going back to my alma
1:13:17
mater, alma mater and coaching my teammates.
1:13:21
I didn't really feel like I was going to get by and they were
1:13:23
like, I didn't think my coach was going to look at me the
1:13:24
same. I was going.
1:13:26
To be the same. I think it should be.
1:13:27
Illegal. I'm dead.
1:13:30
Serious. I've said this several times.
1:13:32
I think it should be, I guess not illegal like illegal means
1:13:35
you go to jail, right, So not illegal.
1:13:36
I think it should be against the NCAA and AI all the college
1:13:39
rules that you cannot GA at the same almada, especially if
1:13:44
there's no years removed. I don't, I, I still don't
1:13:47
understand. And we've had people on the
1:13:49
podcast that have, you know, carefully chosen the words of
1:13:52
like, yeah, maybe I didn't handle it that transition very
1:13:54
well. I don't understand how you can
1:13:55
go from, you know, to my term is being boys with them.
1:13:58
On Friday, you're, you know, you're on the team, you're
1:14:00
playing Xbox, doing your thing, you're senior.
1:14:01
So maybe you're having a drink or two, you know, whatever.
1:14:04
And then on Monday it, you know, and I know that's, you know,
1:14:06
fall semester, whatever your coach, I, I, I don't know.
1:14:12
That seems because you're dealing with 22.
1:14:15
You're not if you're senior and you're 22, I would still call
1:14:18
you a 22 year old kid because you're on the team just because
1:14:20
you're a 22 year old now grad student.
1:14:22
I I don't know that you're an adult.
1:14:25
I I, I just don't know. I'm not sure that should be
1:14:27
legal. I'm not sure that's ever worked
1:14:29
out properly. Separation.
1:14:30
I'm glad you had some self-awareness of like, yeah,
1:14:32
you're calling it buy in. I'm like, yeah, I'm not sure.
1:14:36
You know, I was just on the team with these guys and gals really.
1:14:38
Now they're going to listen. I'm Coach Wilkins now, just
1:14:40
because I'm in a different role, I'm I'm not sure you had some
1:14:43
good self-awareness there. Yeah, I was I.
1:14:46
Had my biggest fear was that, you know, I was still gonna be
1:14:50
looked at as an athlete by the coaching staff and maybe not
1:14:54
get. I wouldn't have got the the the
1:14:57
freedom that I got at Coast Guard and how even just threw me
1:15:00
into things like I I don't think I would have got that experience
1:15:02
and. And yeah, now it was and I and I
1:15:04
experienced it too 'cause we did have that, you know, the same
1:15:08
gratis since I was talking to. He was a teammate of mine.
1:15:10
He was not, he was on my recruiting visit.
1:15:12
I've known him for so long and there were definitely times I
1:15:16
and I was close with him. So I never, I was never
1:15:18
disrespectful of him at all. And I respected him a lot.
1:15:20
But you know, there's definitely, you know, the talks
1:15:23
amongst the team, like people saying it's like, oh, like, how
1:15:25
is he going to tell me not to do this when I was just with him
1:15:28
doing that, doing it right? Exactly.
1:15:31
So I was really I. Was really afraid of that and
1:15:33
then even like I had athletes that and and further on the
1:15:38
years that wanted to get a coaching and they wanted to be a
1:15:41
grot assistant for us and I was like, look, I don't think this
1:15:43
is a good idea. Like, I would not suggest doing
1:15:44
this if you want to do you can't even want to help out, but I
1:15:48
would recommend trying to get started somewhere else for a
1:15:51
little bit. So that I was like, they're just
1:15:54
not going to listen to what you're saying, you know, and but
1:15:58
so no, that's sorry. I lost my train of thought, but
1:16:03
so so you. You finished up Coast Guard
1:16:04
Academy. You're doing the pair of thing.
1:16:07
What's where? Where.
1:16:09
Oh, you got to go. You start doing some master's
1:16:11
classes to get a degree. Yeah, so I knew I.
1:16:14
Wanted to be done. I wanted to spend 4 years and be
1:16:17
done. So it was, it was a a program
1:16:19
where you basically had 16 weeks to get the class done.
1:16:22
And I was just trying, I was getting the classes done in like
1:16:25
8 weeks and sometimes 5 weeks. I was like just trying to get it
1:16:28
done and with quality as well. But I wanted to be done after my
1:16:34
4th year 'cause that's when I knew that I wanted to take that
1:16:36
next step. And my coach had always
1:16:39
recommended getting a master's degree because he's like then
1:16:42
like you could be able to teach classes and that's a little
1:16:44
extra money and stuff. So I was like, OK, yeah, I'll do
1:16:46
that. Looking back and now maybe I
1:16:49
didn't need to get the master's degree, but glad I have it.
1:16:54
So there was an opening at Springfield College, which is in
1:16:58
the same there in the it's the new Mac Conference that same as
1:17:02
Coast Guard. Ethan is a Springfield alum.
1:17:06
So I had gotten to know and the, the head coach of the time had
1:17:10
just came into that role not too long ago.
1:17:12
He was alum and I had known him that cause Ethan had introduced
1:17:16
me when he was at another school.
1:17:18
He became the head coach and they were going to have a
1:17:22
assistant role. And I just went up to him.
1:17:26
They hosted a meeting with Aaron.
1:17:28
I went up to him and I was like, I heard you are having an
1:17:31
opening. I'm very interested.
1:17:32
Like I'll do whatever. Like I was like, I'm like, I'm
1:17:36
taking like I'm finishing my master's degree, I'm taking
1:17:39
another specialist course. Like I like just, I basically
1:17:44
like verbally verbalizing my resume.
1:17:46
And he knew who I was just because of being around.
1:17:50
And so there's that over the summer, like, again, I did this
1:17:56
another specialist course. And again, it was like one of my
1:18:00
only options. It was like, I'm either going to
1:18:02
go do this or I'm going to stay at Coast Guard and love my time
1:18:06
at Coast Guard but be miserable working at the middle school.
1:18:10
And I was I was fortunate to get the position out of Springfield.
1:18:14
And I'll say my again, I love my time at Springfield and I'll say
1:18:17
that's my time there is what really kind of.
1:18:23
Changed my. Perception on coaching and kind
1:18:25
of really changed me as a coach to get me where I am today.
1:18:29
So, so well. First, it was definitely a big
1:18:34
adjustment going from a Military Academy to a private college.
1:18:40
Just the mentality of the the athletes where, you know, my
1:18:44
athletes biggest problem is that they weren't getting enough
1:18:46
sleep. Like they had to study for all
1:18:48
these, you know, military exams. They had drill 6:00 AM where
1:18:53
went to Springfield. And now I'm dealing with a lot
1:18:56
more emotions, I guess I'd say. I remember someone asked me
1:19:02
what, what, what has been the difference going to Springfield
1:19:04
And I was like, I feel like I'm drowning in tears compared to
1:19:07
Coast Guard. And you know, it was just, it
1:19:08
was just a different, I just feel like a different mindset
1:19:12
athlete, but a different kid. Goes to a Military Academy
1:19:16
versus any other school. But even to your point about a
1:19:19
private school, I think a different kid might go to a
1:19:20
private school than a public school.
1:19:21
But certainly and, and, and, and someone who's up for an Academy
1:19:26
spot is a little different. Not judging good or bad either
1:19:30
way, but they are different. I I would agree with that and I
1:19:33
think. I was trying to, I feel like
1:19:35
I've gone through different phases with every program that
1:19:38
I've been with. Whereas my first four years
1:19:42
coaching at the Coast Guard Academy, I've made the the same
1:19:46
mistake all first year coaches make and want to be best friends
1:19:48
with, you know, want to be buddies with coaching with.
1:19:51
And it was great. And luckily I was at a spot
1:19:54
where they were going to be respectful no matter what.
1:19:57
And then when I went to Springfield, I was like.
1:20:00
There is going to be the hardest line drawn in the sand like I'm
1:20:03
not and kind of taking over a little bit of the military side
1:20:07
of it was like, it's going to be very direct and I'm going to
1:20:09
hold these kids accountable. And so is that.
1:20:12
And it obviously wasn't taken on well right away.
1:20:17
And I kind of had a transition. But I would say kind of the main
1:20:21
reason I I say that is so my first year they had brought in a
1:20:26
very talented woman, high jumper.
1:20:30
She came in right away. We qualify for national
1:20:33
championships. She broke the school record,
1:20:36
extremely talented. And as the season was going on,
1:20:41
you could start seeing kind of her, the mental side of, of her
1:20:49
career start to play out where she was dealing with a lot of
1:20:51
performance anxiety and kind of having these expectations and
1:20:55
dealing with a lot of different things that, you know, I is way
1:20:59
out of my, my wheelhouse at the time.
1:21:01
So she was having a successful career really, really quickly.
1:21:04
And we went to the indoor national championships and she
1:21:07
just absolutely just fumbled, you know, had the worst meat of
1:21:10
her life. And I think she cried for about
1:21:13
like 2 weeks because she did so bad.
1:21:16
And at the time Ethan was there and he's like, I want to see,
1:21:22
you know, you have athletes there.
1:21:24
I'm going to come watch them why they're going.
1:21:26
So he came and watched and and also being in love with the
1:21:28
school, he came and watched her high jump.
1:21:31
And after I just kind of went up and I was like, that was rough.
1:21:38
Like she is not doing well. And he had first thing he said
1:21:41
he was like, I think you should read this book.
1:21:43
And it was called the upside of stress.
1:21:45
And like I said, before that moment, I was not a good
1:21:50
student. I never read.
1:21:52
And from that moment, just as soon as I read that book and
1:21:57
same thing, it kind of goes back to, I guess purpose behind and
1:22:00
having a purpose and a a passion through it.
1:22:03
So I read that book and it completely changed the
1:22:05
trajectory of my career and really started and getting deep
1:22:12
dive, taking a deep dive in kind of sports psychology and kind of
1:22:15
the mental side and the mental aspect of of coaching in a track
1:22:18
and field and have athletics. And that year alone, I probably
1:22:22
meant read more books than I had read in my entire life, you
1:22:25
know, and it still still the same way to today a lot of.
1:22:29
People, readers are generally always have their ears open for
1:22:34
book recommendation. So a certain segment of our
1:22:38
listenership just was like, what, what, what was that book?
1:22:41
So kind of a book recommendation, if you will.
1:22:43
So you said the upside of stress and you said now these are some
1:22:46
pretty big words here, Brendan, change the direction of my
1:22:50
career. Tell us a little bit about that
1:22:54
book. What were some of the maybe
1:22:56
themes? Give us a like a little mini
1:22:58
book report to convince us to go out immediately to our local
1:23:01
library and get the upside of stress book.
1:23:06
Yeah, this is one of the tangents that you just got me on
1:23:10
that I'm going to. It's going to be another hour of
1:23:12
talking about books, but so yeah, it's called The Upside of
1:23:15
Stress by Doctor Kelly Mcgonigal.
1:23:18
She also has a Ted Talk where pretty much goes over all the
1:23:21
things. So if you're not a big reader
1:23:23
and you want to get the idea of the book, definitely check out
1:23:26
our Ted Talk. It's awesome.
1:23:27
But it's all about changing the idea of stress and anxiety from
1:23:34
a negative thing to a positive thing.
1:23:36
So it's all about mindset and kind of changing your mindset to
1:23:39
having more of a positive mindset versus a negative
1:23:41
mindset. And what she does throughout the
1:23:44
book is she kind of, she talks a lot about having a mindset
1:23:48
intervention. So basically breaking it down
1:23:52
scientifically, what's happening in your body, like what hormones
1:23:55
are released when you are experienced stress or anxiety
1:24:00
and saying it's like these things are being released and
1:24:03
these are all the positive things that are happening.
1:24:05
The only thing that's changing is the way you're receiving it,
1:24:09
right? It's kind of like a fight or
1:24:11
flight, like a challenge versus response.
1:24:15
So she goes into a deep dive about that and just even kind of
1:24:20
like biologically what's happening throughout your body,
1:24:23
right? If you are, you know, having a
1:24:27
challenge response, maybe your blood vessels are expanding or
1:24:31
if you're in a threat response, your blood vessels with
1:24:34
tightening up. So blood's going through your
1:24:36
body and she kind of. Challenges the.
1:24:38
Reader to to change their language and change your
1:24:41
thoughts and different things right that she talks about like,
1:24:44
you know, when you're feeling stress and anxiety, what's
1:24:46
happening right? Your, your breath starts
1:24:49
quickening and you know, your heart starts pounding.
1:24:51
It's like, OK, well that's your body trying to get more oxygen
1:24:54
and more blood throughout your body.
1:24:55
You know, you're, you are you got butterflies in your stomach.
1:24:59
OK, that that means something really matters and you just got
1:25:01
to make them fly in the same direction.
1:25:03
Your your palms are sweaty. Think about when that happens,
1:25:06
right? Your, your palms get sweaty
1:25:08
right before your first date and it's, it's before, right, for
1:25:11
something you really want is about to happen.
1:25:15
So she talks about a lot and one of the big things that I've
1:25:17
taken and I use throughout all of it is trying to say and even
1:25:22
catching yourself like it's like, oh, I'm so nervous about
1:25:25
this. It's like, no, you're not
1:25:26
nervous, you're excited. So trying to have that mentality
1:25:30
with everything. So, and, and you're kind of
1:25:32
catching yourself and the more and more you kind of convince
1:25:34
yourself you're in that, it kind of changes the whole trajectory.
1:25:37
And so I'll, well, I, I have weekly meetings with our whole
1:25:41
team and I, I call them like championship meetings and we'll
1:25:44
talk about different aspects of mindset.
1:25:46
And one that I'll always do is with all my first years, I have
1:25:49
them kind of model and kind of walk through the group.
1:25:52
And it's like, OK, I want you to walk through the circle that
1:25:54
we're in right now. Like you have to go to practice
1:25:58
and they're all kind of like hunched over like that.
1:26:00
And it's like, OK, now I want you to walk like you get to go
1:26:03
to practice. They're immediately like all
1:26:05
stood. And it's like to think about
1:26:06
that just one word completely changed.
1:26:08
Everything is like you before you had to go run 62 hundreds.
1:26:12
Now you get to run 62 hundreds because this is going to get a
1:26:15
setups to go, you know. So that was kind of the big
1:26:17
theme of the book. And she would go through even
1:26:20
like talking about like maids in a hotel, like talking about how
1:26:26
they, since they're working so many hours, they feel like they
1:26:28
can't exercise. So in the break room, they would
1:26:30
put up posters saying like every matches you flip is equivalent
1:26:35
to doing burning. It's burning this many calories.
1:26:38
So it's making the feel like, Oh, I'm not getting exercise,
1:26:41
but I'm doing all this stuff. So like I am getting exercise.
1:26:44
So kind of changing their mindset with stuff like that.
1:26:46
And it, it was a super powerful book for me.
1:26:49
And I, I still take a lot from today And it just kind of domino
1:26:52
effect to, to more and more reading and going into that that
1:26:57
realm. I thought you were going to say
1:27:02
how the book changed the direction of your career, how
1:27:05
you were able to talk with your athletes and you gave some great
1:27:07
examples there. But I'm also hearing you say how
1:27:11
you actually utilize these. I'm going to come skill sets,
1:27:16
mind changes, do you think? Or maybe you even know, but
1:27:19
maybe you've asked Ethan when he recommended that book.
1:27:23
Do you think he was recommending that book to you because oh, the
1:27:26
athlete didn't perform very well.
1:27:28
So here's some maybe some things you can learn to help with that
1:27:31
or for you of how to prepare her for, you know, in future
1:27:35
athletes for a stressor event like that, A championship.
1:27:39
I think it was a little bit of. Both I think obviously we saw
1:27:43
that. We saw how it had affected her
1:27:47
and, and he had known me for four years and could see how I
1:27:51
was under, you know, high pressure situations.
1:27:56
And so probably a little bit of both.
1:27:59
But yeah, no, it's, it's something that's completely
1:28:01
changed my life. And, you know, I don't really
1:28:03
think I would have survived going through the COVID pandemic
1:28:07
and not having a season without that where it's like I kind of
1:28:10
changed my mindset where it's like, and I, I had, I said the
1:28:13
same exact thing. So my athletes like we can
1:28:16
either be bitter about this, that our season's over, or we
1:28:18
can use this as an opportunity to get better.
1:28:20
And I spent the entire time, you know, diving into any
1:28:23
professional of all my going to get my hands on taking everyone
1:28:26
was doing, you know, their own symposiums over Zoom and
1:28:29
listening to all different podcasts and reading.
1:28:31
And I said the same thing. My athletes.
1:28:33
I was like, look, I was like, we're going to be at home.
1:28:35
It's for six months. We either use the six months to
1:28:37
get down ourself, or we can use it to get six months ahead of
1:28:41
everybody else. So when we get back and we can't
1:28:43
compete, we're ready. So it definitely helped me.
1:28:47
It was, it was great timing going into that because it was
1:28:50
like a year or two, it was like a year and a half before that
1:28:53
happened. That's interesting.
1:28:55
I, I love the mentorship of Ethan to help you out with that.
1:28:59
It it what struck me was, you know, you'd just spent four
1:29:02
years with him and he never recommended the book to you.
1:29:05
And at first I was like, well, what the heck, Ethan?
1:29:07
But now I, what I'm thinking is, you know, mentorship is not a
1:29:12
one time thing. I meet with you on one day and I
1:29:14
just everything out to you, every book recommendation, every
1:29:17
blah, blah, blah, right? It's it's a it's a long term
1:29:20
thing. And so I think that that book
1:29:25
for him to you, it wasn't the right time until that time at
1:29:30
nationals when the the high jump happened.
1:29:32
You know, I think he, he probably has a lot of thing, you
1:29:35
know, a guy like that obviously is very conscientious.
1:29:37
That guy like that has a lot of help for different situations at
1:29:42
different times. So it's, it's interesting that
1:29:45
that was the time for that book for him.
1:29:48
And right now that book is going to hit for someone right now it
1:29:50
it right now someone hears that and is Googling it if you're not
1:29:54
driving and says, oh, I need to take, I need to read this or
1:29:58
audiobook it or Ted talk it. And it's going to affect their
1:30:01
trajectory of their, their, their life.
1:30:03
Other people are going to hear it and think, Oh yeah, maybe.
1:30:06
And in five years when something happens, be like, oh, wait, I
1:30:11
remember a book and they're either going to call you or come
1:30:13
back to this podcast or, or they hear it five years from now.
1:30:16
That's the cool thing about these podcasts is that these
1:30:18
these are Evergreen. Five year we started five years
1:30:20
ago. You could go right now and
1:30:21
listen to the very first podcast we ever did.
1:30:24
That's Evergreen. It's it was captured in that
1:30:25
time. So five years from now, someone
1:30:27
hears your journey and hears about that book and says, oh,
1:30:30
maybe this is what I've been, I've been looking for.
1:30:33
And it helps them at that point, 'cause we're all in different
1:30:35
ages and stages of our life and, and our posture of accepting
1:30:38
things changes based on the circumstances of our lives.
1:30:41
So I love that for you and for Ethan, at that time, that was
1:30:45
the right time to recommend the book.
1:30:47
And look what fruit has gained from it.
1:30:49
I mean, you've gained a lot. It's obvious you've gained a lot
1:30:52
from, from a, just a simple book.
1:30:54
I mean that that's the power of of books and reading, I think is
1:30:57
what it can do for you in different circumstances of your
1:31:01
life. Yeah.
1:31:02
And then it. Kind of, you know, it's part
1:31:04
like I said, I just became a lifelong learner and just with
1:31:08
everything and, and kind of what you said, like thinking about
1:31:10
myself as a student, like if someone told me to read
1:31:13
something and didn't really apply or kind of helped me
1:31:16
become better and what I was doing, I probably wouldn't have
1:31:18
read it. But at that point I was very
1:31:20
desperate to find any type of solution to kind of help and I
1:31:24
dove right into it. And from then it kind of
1:31:26
evolved. And then I started doing like
1:31:28
during our kind of pre seasons, we would put on kind of like
1:31:32
these all these kind of like interventions and kind of like
1:31:34
almost like maybe kind of like Ted talks with like team
1:31:37
activities. And then as soon as I got to
1:31:39
Quinnipiac, that was like one of the first things I said.
1:31:41
I was like, I want to do this, I want to do it every week.
1:31:43
And we're going to talk about different things and just give
1:31:45
them at least one little tool in their toolbox to do it
1:31:49
throughout. But yeah, so her and I it then
1:31:54
it kind of went into COVID and I think that was a good time for
1:31:56
all of us Where she kind of ended her first year in the half
1:32:00
of her sophomore year, very doubt about track of the field
1:32:04
and did not want to be doing what she was doing.
1:32:07
And I think once it got taken away, she could be very grateful
1:32:11
for it. I think during that time too,
1:32:15
she in with the kind of, we can say almost like a mental injury
1:32:19
injury turned into kind of like a physical injury as well.
1:32:21
And she started having all these knee problems.
1:32:23
So it was like a huge storm of things happening.
1:32:25
And during COVID, she ended up getting, you know, minor knee
1:32:28
surgery as well and just kind of changing her thought process on
1:32:33
things. And when she came back, it was
1:32:35
she was a whole different person.
1:32:37
Whereas her senior year basically mirrored her entire
1:32:42
first year, except when at the, when we got to national
1:32:46
champion, she ended up as an All American.
1:32:48
So her her senior year, it was like a very full circle moment
1:32:51
where her senior year reflected everything she was doing her
1:32:54
first year. And our conversation was just
1:32:57
like, let's just rewrite the story.
1:32:59
Let's rewrite your career in this moment.
1:33:01
We, we basically went to a lot of the same meats.
1:33:03
We did a lot of the same things, you know, she was performing the
1:33:06
same way. I was like, just go and have
1:33:08
like right now the national championships are a terrible
1:33:11
experience for you. Let's go on have a good
1:33:13
experience. And we went and she wished she
1:33:16
had, she was very good at it too.
1:33:18
And she did a lot of research herself and she found, you know,
1:33:21
techniques and things to do during competition.
1:33:24
She ended up becoming a big knitter.
1:33:26
And like during meats, she she had her meat blanket that she
1:33:28
would do in every meat. She would crochet and do that
1:33:30
because it would keep her mind off of competition.
1:33:33
She wasn't being like isolating herself, like she would just
1:33:36
have her head down. She'd be talking to the other
1:33:38
women she was competing with. And just that's how she stayed
1:33:41
calm. And she, I think her senior year
1:33:43
she maybe made like two or three blankets because she was just
1:33:46
going like crazy. But that was the thing that kind
1:33:49
of helped her stay in her zone and be able to rewrite a whole
1:33:53
year from her. And she went from track and
1:33:56
field being the worst thing that ever happened to her to, you
1:33:58
know, something that she's grateful for.
1:33:59
So it was, it was awesome to kind of see that.
1:34:02
And we kind of. You know.
1:34:04
Grateful for her too, because I would not have same thing kind
1:34:07
of little moments like that. I would not have even thought
1:34:09
about like the mental side of it where now that's a huge part of
1:34:13
my program and what what I what I like to do and how I like to
1:34:17
coach. And we learned it together and
1:34:19
we're able to kind of. Bring it all.
1:34:22
Together for on our senior year. I like that.
1:34:25
Term rewrite the story. We we don't always get a chance
1:34:30
to do that. And so when you get that chance,
1:34:35
take advantage of I I like that. Rewrite the story.
1:34:37
That's really cool. Do you go from Springfield to
1:34:42
Quinnipiac? Yeah, So I spent.
1:34:44
Another four years at Springfield and then it was at
1:34:49
convention, the sprints coach and I don't know, I'm just stuck
1:34:53
in all these. Springfield alum.
1:34:56
There's a lot that that school has a a history in athletics
1:35:00
and, you know, I think it's like the birth place of of strength
1:35:03
and conditioning in basketball. Strength and conditioning.
1:35:06
We had Rob Lesorsa from MF Athletics on the podcast a while
1:35:09
back. He's a Springfield alum.
1:35:11
He was talking about it's a like little known air quotes.
1:35:14
Springfield College has a big thumbprint on sports, basketball
1:35:19
strength and conditioning. So a lot of alum from there in
1:35:22
our in our profession. Yeah, big coaching.
1:35:25
Tree and yeah, just deep, deep history in athletic so got to
1:35:30
know him. Joe Van Gilder, he's our Sprint
1:35:33
coach at Quinnipiac sprints and Hurl.
1:35:34
He's our associate head coach now.
1:35:37
But had known him just just from hanging around the track and get
1:35:42
introduced to him. And it was at convention, he
1:35:47
came up to me like ordered me and he's like, we're going to
1:35:49
have an opening and I want to apply for it.
1:35:51
So at the time their mid distance coach was retiring and
1:35:57
he was coaching sprints, hurdles, jumps, everything by
1:36:01
himself. So he's like, I need some help.
1:36:04
And even think about it now, like I still feel like I'm
1:36:06
scrambling trying to get to those.
1:36:08
So I can't even imagine how he was doing that with on top of
1:36:11
it. So with our mid distance coach,
1:36:15
Chris Dickerson, he retired, he says he retired, but he's at
1:36:20
every single practice still and every single meet.
1:36:23
He just doesn't after practice, he just leaves.
1:36:25
So he gets to do all the good stuff and doesn't have to worry
1:36:28
about it. And that's what he loves.
1:36:31
So they want to kind of change the trajectory of their coaching
1:36:37
staff because it's the history of Quinnipiac has always been
1:36:40
more of like a distance heavy program and they wanted to and
1:36:44
the the sprints and jumps have been building and bringing a a
1:36:47
jumps coach into that another track, you know, speed and power
1:36:51
coach into there would start to develop the track program more
1:36:56
more So our sprints and jumps group so cornered me at
1:37:01
convention and same kind of thing.
1:37:04
I he's like, you got to talk to our head coach.
1:37:05
She's here Carolyn Martin and I had met her a few times just
1:37:09
same thing recruiting and I'll, it was one of like the, the last
1:37:16
time I was in Florida. It was like 1 of like the
1:37:18
coaches dinner, the coaches social.
1:37:19
And I just remember feeling like I was at like the 8th grade
1:37:22
school dance, like just trying to like, you know, make my move
1:37:26
and like approach this approach, approach them to, you know,
1:37:30
shoot my shot and finally got the courage to do it on the last
1:37:35
day and just kind of like I was like, this is this is me.
1:37:40
This is what I'm about. But like very interested in and
1:37:44
he just kind of went with there. You know, I still at that time,
1:37:47
I still kind of debating like what I wanted to do and what
1:37:50
path I wanted to take. I love my time at Springfield
1:37:53
and all the kids that I was coaching at time were pretty
1:37:55
much all the kids that I had recruited.
1:37:59
So it was and I, I kind of wanted to see that, you know,
1:38:02
that first class through. And it's always been very hard
1:38:08
for me to kind of lead programs 'cause I feel like it, coaching
1:38:11
is a people business. And, you know, I, I very much
1:38:14
value the relationships and the, the impact that I make on
1:38:16
people. And I never want to feel like
1:38:18
I'm, you know, leaving someone high and dry.
1:38:22
And it was, and having conversation with other coaches
1:38:25
and my coach and kind of saying, if you stay for the kids, you
1:38:28
know, you're never going to leave.
1:38:30
And I think Boo said it on, I think it was on your podcast
1:38:34
too, where he was saying it's like, why you worried about, you
1:38:38
know, screwing them over when someone better could be coming
1:38:41
in. So kind of thought about that
1:38:43
and let my ego push my ego aside a little bit.
1:38:45
And, you know, and, and same thing, like I started needing to
1:38:50
make adult decisions where, you know, take a next step in my
1:38:53
career, you know, take a next step, you know, making a little
1:38:56
bit more money too. And but still the same at that
1:39:00
time I was trying to figure out like I was at that point, I was
1:39:05
very much thinking I was going to go be trying to apply for
1:39:09
Division Three head coaching jobs.
1:39:12
Like that was the at that point, that was the tractor drew the
1:39:15
the path that I thought I was going to be taking.
1:39:17
And so when I got approached with that, it kind of threw me
1:39:20
for a loop a little bit. It's like, OK.
1:39:23
And now that I'm in the role that I'm in, I'm kind of like, I
1:39:27
kind of like this role and like, I don't know if I want to be a
1:39:29
head coach anymore. So it was cool to have this
1:39:31
perspective where at Springfield we had a much bigger team and we
1:39:38
all had very large, like I was coaching 25 athletes by myself
1:39:42
with a grad assistant and almost felt like I was in kind of a a
1:39:46
big leadership role and kind of in a head coach role.
1:39:48
I was like, I'm kind of already doing this, you know, let me go
1:39:51
into it. And so that's kind of why I was
1:39:53
in that. But yeah, so and then I, I ended
1:39:59
up making a tough decision. Was hard saying goodbye to all
1:40:02
those kids and all those, all those men and women and.
1:40:05
Those athletes that I had been with for four years and but they
1:40:09
understood and they knew I had a few of them.
1:40:11
I don't, I think they were upset with me, but 9098% of them were,
1:40:17
were happy for me. And I still got to see them all
1:40:19
the time. Oh, not all the time, but got to
1:40:21
see them every now and then and kept in touch.
1:40:23
And so keep in touch with them all today.
1:40:26
But yeah. And then I went over to
1:40:28
Quinnipiac. Yeah, never forget.
1:40:30
The majority of those kids are, are happy for you.
1:40:33
You know, 2 or a couple of those kids are upset at you, like, oh,
1:40:36
you're leaving us. Never forget, there's always a
1:40:38
couple of kids that are glad to see you go.
1:40:40
When you're dealing with that many key kids, you just, it's a
1:40:43
fact of life. Most of them though, are happy
1:40:46
for you. Just think about them, right?
1:40:49
U.S. Coast Guard, Coast Guard
1:40:50
Academy, Division 3, Springfield Division 3.
1:40:53
Correct. Quinnipiac Division One, what
1:40:56
have you had to and you were Division Three athlete, what
1:40:59
have you had? How many years at Quinnipiac
1:41:01
now? Starting my third year Third,
1:41:04
yeah. What have you had to learn?
1:41:08
Each division is unique in a lot of different ways, so you're
1:41:11
going from Division Three to Division One.
1:41:13
What has been one of the biggest changes you've had to adjust to?
1:41:17
What maybe did you think was going to be easy?
1:41:19
And it's like, well, actually, this is a little harder and and
1:41:21
maybe they're versed. What did you think is like, oh
1:41:23
man, this might be a little hard for me to learn.
1:41:24
And it actually ended up being fairly easy.
1:41:28
I think right away the biggest adjustment was now our training
1:41:32
calendars much longer, whereas Coast Guard and Springfield, we
1:41:38
weren't really starting our first official practice till
1:41:42
last week of October, 1st week in November.
1:41:46
Whereas now like we're, and when I quit back where we give them
1:41:49
the, the first week or first two, my first years, we give
1:41:52
them the first two weeks and now give them the first week to get
1:41:55
adjusted. And then we're getting right
1:41:56
into it. And so the first thing that was
1:41:58
for me is like now my progressions that I'm used to
1:42:01
doing for the past eight years are all different where I'm
1:42:05
trying to scramble to get us ready to compete because we
1:42:07
would come first week in November and we'd have a meet
1:42:09
first week of December. So I have a month to get them
1:42:12
ready for competition. Now I have all this time.
1:42:14
What am I going to do with all this time and having to re kind
1:42:17
of configure? Obviously the the training of
1:42:20
the workouts were very similar, but now technically, what am I
1:42:25
doing with this time to work with them?
1:42:27
You know where it's like I'm used to it right away regretting
1:42:29
getting into doing so approach work and some short jumps on day
1:42:32
one, where now we're doing a lot more multi jumps in the first
1:42:37
phase and then and then getting into it.
1:42:39
So that was definitely a big adjustment just trying to figure
1:42:42
out what to do with all this time.
1:42:43
And I feel like in some ways I try and be a perfectionist where
1:42:49
I'm very worried about like how I'm progressing things.
1:42:53
So I probably the first year that I probably spent like a
1:42:56
month stressing about, you know, the first week, week of practice
1:43:01
and when I really didn't just kind of overthinking things.
1:43:04
So that was definitely a big adjustment.
1:43:07
And then recruiting wise, now I have scholarship and that's
1:43:11
figuring out that game and kind of budgeting through scholarship
1:43:15
and offering scholarship. Just learning that was very
1:43:19
different. One that and and another
1:43:23
difference to that was more specific to Quinnipiac is when I
1:43:27
was at Springfield and at Coast Guard, we both had an indoor and
1:43:30
outdoor track, full weight room. I come to Quinnipiac.
1:43:35
We have a 2 lane running track that's 180 meters and then four
1:43:40
rack courts. And at the time we had a weight
1:43:43
room that had four squat racks. We've now expanded to a weight
1:43:47
room that has 16. So that's improved.
1:43:50
But trying to navigate not having facilities and now having
1:43:55
to travel to a facility a few times a week and being not
1:43:58
having the flexibility that I would normally have of having
1:44:01
our own facility. So that was through Quinnipiac.
1:44:03
That was a A. Just more I.
1:44:07
Guess local kind of adjustment I had to make.
1:44:09
Where's now? Now I'm comfortable with it and
1:44:13
kind of figured out how. So that scholarship component
1:44:16
is, is one of the bigger unique things facilities, you know,
1:44:21
there's plenty of D3 facilities that don't have indoor
1:44:23
facilities and etcetera, etcetera.
1:44:25
So that's more like, you know, school dependent.
1:44:28
But between D3 and D1, your academic and need based only on
1:44:32
Division Three, your academic need based and athletic
1:44:37
scholarship possibilities on Division One.
1:44:40
What have you had to have you had to adjust?
1:44:43
I, I really enjoy the recruiting aspect of track and field,
1:44:47
probably mostly because it's relationship building, right?
1:44:51
Have you had to 'cause you, you recruited on the Division Three
1:44:54
for, you know, many years. Have you had to change anything?
1:44:58
What, what might have you had to change on your recruiting
1:45:03
technique, if you will? Strategy.
1:45:05
Yeah. I think it's definitely been
1:45:08
it's definitely a process like recruiting at every place has
1:45:11
been different. Recruiting at the Coast Guard
1:45:13
Academy, especially being very part time, it was almost non
1:45:16
existent for me where is like I was getting Ethan.
1:45:20
The same thing was giving me some experience to go, but same
1:45:23
thing at a Division 3 Military Academy.
1:45:25
You're kind of working with whatever is kind of at least
1:45:29
from my I could. I was like I said, I wasn't
1:45:31
super involved in it, but kind of whatever is kind of does the
1:45:33
coast. Guard is so at the Air Force
1:45:35
Academy. I remember talking with Scotty
1:45:38
Stefan, their head coach now, a long time ago, and I was like,
1:45:43
oh man, dude, if you go to the Air Force Academy, it's a full
1:45:45
ride. If you just go to the Air Force
1:45:47
Academy. So I was like, so you know,
1:45:49
like, how many kids are on your team?
1:45:50
Scotty? And I can't remember what he
1:45:51
told me, but it was a lot. And I was like, so wait, so
1:45:53
every kid is a full ride? So you don't have, you know, the
1:45:56
scholarship limits that other Division One schools have.
1:45:58
It is the Coast Guard Academy similar?
1:46:00
And so I think Army and Navy Academy same thing.
1:46:03
If you get an appointment, you don't just get accepted, right?
1:46:06
You get appointment to it. It's everything's taken care of.
1:46:08
Is it the same in the in the Coast Guard?
1:46:10
Yes. And then?
1:46:11
At once they graduated, they're owed five years of service.
1:46:14
So that's kind of how they but what I'm.
1:46:16
Wondering is so you know, it's I know there are other things to
1:46:21
consider with an Academy. So when I grossly state there
1:46:24
are some advantages to go on to Air Force Academy coaching at
1:46:27
the Air Force Academy than there is at Texas A and MI have 100
1:46:31
full rides at at the Air Force Academy.
1:46:33
I have currently 12.6 for the guys at Texas A&M.
1:46:38
I'm grossly misstating that because there are obviously
1:46:40
requirements at the Air Force Academy that you don't have an
1:46:42
A&M and things like that. At Coast.
1:46:44
Guard, I mean, because now you're because it's not an
1:46:48
athletic scholarship. It is an appointment to the
1:46:50
Coast Guard Academy, but you're in Division Three where no one
1:46:54
has athletic scholarships. That feels like huge.
1:46:57
And you're right, you're part time, so you know, you might,
1:47:00
you didn't get to get into it as much as you do, say today.
1:47:03
That seems like a big advantage. Yeah, no, definitely.
1:47:07
I know from my conversations with Ethan, like I said, I
1:47:11
wasn't super involved. I mean he would have his kind of
1:47:13
list and then he would say why don't you call it just to give
1:47:15
me experience. Why don't you call these few and
1:47:17
just kind of check up on them and answer some questions and
1:47:19
kind of talk program a little bit.
1:47:21
So I know he would, I would say there you had to get appointed
1:47:24
to be there, so. It'd be a lot of.
1:47:28
Kind of athletes that were interested in coming right away.
1:47:32
I know he would work a lot through like if they couldn't
1:47:35
get into the Academy to play it, a lot of the athletes would go
1:47:42
to prep school. They'd go to like the Navy prep
1:47:44
school or different, different prep schools.
1:47:45
So he would recruit a lot through there.
1:47:47
So there are times that he would travel to those prep schools and
1:47:49
do and meet with his athletes, the athletes that he was
1:47:53
recruiting yeah. So that was so the the national
1:47:57
champion that I coached, he was a 24 year old junior from the
1:48:04
Bahamas. So that was he was like he was
1:48:06
like a couple months older than me.
1:48:08
So that was also interesting. Did they not?
1:48:10
Did they not have to be US? We're getting on tangents.
1:48:12
You said you're a tangent guy. And I was like, oh, that's a
1:48:14
problem because I'm also a tangent guy.
1:48:16
Do they do they not have to be U.S. citizens or did that kid we
1:48:18
would have? No, we would have a few
1:48:21
internationals, yeah. Cuz that and they.
1:48:24
That's not the same for. Like Army and Navy and air
1:48:26
forces. That's unfair to ask you because
1:48:29
you haven't worked there. But yeah, I'm not familiar.
1:48:31
That's interesting. OK, anyway, so, so go back.
1:48:35
So now you're Quinnipiac and you have this scholarship.
1:48:37
What have you had to change in your technique, if you will, of
1:48:41
of recruiting? I think now it's more kind of my
1:48:46
timelines have definitely changed.
1:48:49
I think when I was at Springfield, I just was not
1:48:53
necessarily aware of kind of what other schools timeline
1:48:57
were. So I kind of like we would have
1:49:03
basically we would do kind of official visits like November
1:49:07
like or in like January, I don't know, end of end of the fall
1:49:11
semester and think about that now it's like I'm hoping to be
1:49:14
rapid, not, you know, having my top kids done by then.
1:49:18
So kind of that kind of opened up a lot and like put kind of
1:49:22
pieces together in my head is like, oh, that's why I missed
1:49:25
out on these kids 'cause I was way too late to the game.
1:49:29
But I, I feel like I approach things differently.
1:49:31
I feel like with my recruiting, I like to be first.
1:49:36
I like to be one of the first coaches that they hear from.
1:49:39
So I feel like I get there probably way earlier than I need
1:49:42
to and reach out to them and just start talking to them,
1:49:46
trying to and almost build a relationship with them for
1:49:50
almost a year. So and sometimes that works out
1:49:53
really well and sometimes it's really heartbreaking.
1:49:56
But, and there's been times where I've done that.
1:49:58
It's especially when I was at the Division Three level.
1:50:01
It's like, Hey, coach, like I love you, like you are like the
1:50:04
top coach that I'm talking to, but I have this opportunity over
1:50:07
here that I'm going to go take or but like you don't
1:50:09
necessarily have my program. And I was like, and then and
1:50:12
then I continue to see them at meets and like coach, coach,
1:50:15
like how you doing? I was like, I don't I don't want
1:50:16
to talk to you right now. Like like you're great, like
1:50:19
you're great person, like going to be nice to you, but like
1:50:21
you're just bringing up bad memories.
1:50:22
So now I feel like Long story short, now I feel like my
1:50:28
timelines are a little bit different.
1:50:29
I still like, I feel like overall like I'm trying to build
1:50:33
my list and start talking to people around the same time, but
1:50:35
now I'm trying to bring them in a lot sooner and trying to get,
1:50:39
you know, trying to work with their timeline as well as our
1:50:44
timeline. Like for example, I had one of
1:50:50
my first official visits a few weeks ago and she was very
1:50:53
talented, very high academic and she was looking at a lot of high
1:50:57
academic Division Three schools and was receiving a lot of
1:51:00
pressure through them and trying to get her to commit before the
1:51:03
even school year started. And now I'm thinking like, oh,
1:51:05
now I, I know why they're doing that because they know like I'm
1:51:07
going to have official visit with them and I'm going to offer
1:51:10
them some money and they, they're trying to get ahead of
1:51:12
me. Now they're learning about that.
1:51:15
And so just kind of and, and just, I'm just realizing it's
1:51:19
all a game and it's all taking chances.
1:51:21
Like when they're coming, like I'm trying to get an idea of
1:51:25
where else they're trying to take visits.
1:51:26
I'm like, OK, maybe they'll offer them this and then we can
1:51:29
kind of compete with that. Just doing a lot of kind of
1:51:31
guessing. And but I feel like a lot of
1:51:33
what I do is just try. And I feel like the relationship
1:51:37
is what I I feel like where I'm at at Winnie Piak, it's the the
1:51:41
team culture is like when I have not been a part, been a part of
1:51:44
like before. And I feel like that is what
1:51:48
really kind of sells them. And through the recruiting
1:51:51
process, I push that a lot. Obviously, I push the academic
1:51:53
programs. I push, you know, the impact
1:51:56
that they're going to make to our program.
1:51:58
But talk about the experience that you're going to have with
1:52:01
your team mates and that the culture that you're going to be
1:52:03
a part of where we're all trying to push each other.
1:52:05
We're all striving for something great.
1:52:08
And when they come for the visit, they see that that I'm
1:52:10
not just like making that up. And they're like, oh, wow, this
1:52:13
is so different than any other visit that I've gone on.
1:52:16
You know, so really try. And I always say whenever they
1:52:20
come for their first visit, I say, I want you to go to as many
1:52:22
schools as you want to go, that you go, that you possibly can go
1:52:26
to make your pros and cons. But I do want to let you know
1:52:28
that I try and set the bar high. So then when you go off and go
1:52:32
to other visits, you'll never forget your visit with me.
1:52:34
Like, but I want you to go to every any school.
1:52:37
I want you to take as many visits as you can because I
1:52:39
don't want you to come to. I don't want you to feel
1:52:41
pressure for me and come to me and realize you don't like in
1:52:45
the transfer a couple months later.
1:52:47
Like I want you to experience everything so you are positive
1:52:50
that this is where you want to go.
1:52:52
Yeah, I like that. You know, I try to think of like
1:52:54
a parent or even as a kid being recruited, you know, I would
1:52:58
hate for the coach to say, hey, you know, I don't if when you
1:53:01
come for a visit here, that's got to be your last visit.
1:53:03
And those kind of pressures, it's like to me it exudes so
1:53:06
much confidence when you're like, hey, go take as many
1:53:08
visits as you want. I'm confident.
1:53:10
In what we have here and you know what, this ain't the right
1:53:12
place for you. It don't matter.
1:53:13
This ain't the right place for you.
1:53:14
But I I'm confident in what we have have the picture out there.
1:53:18
You know, everything's got its pros and cons.
1:53:20
I wanted to ask you, are you having the experience at a
1:53:26
Division One school of kids calling saying they want a full
1:53:28
ride? I am a little bit of the outside
1:53:31
and actually don't I don't not like.
1:53:34
Well, that's a double negative. I'm not as against kids doing
1:53:37
that as some other coaches are. I'm also not in your seat and
1:53:41
they have to deal with that. But instead of asking that
1:53:43
because I think about the pros and cons of everything.
1:53:45
I wonder when you were recruiting for Division Three
1:53:48
and you don't give out athletic scholarships, did you have
1:53:51
instances where kids would say, hey, I want a full ride?
1:53:53
Because they don't. They're not.
1:53:54
They didn't do their homework, if you will.
1:53:57
Did you have that experience at the Division Three level?
1:54:03
I think I would I would get it wasn't necessarily full ride
1:54:08
questions, but I would kick questions about like are there
1:54:11
any like, you know, sneaky scholarships, you know, that
1:54:14
aren't athletics that you guys are a part of but are.
1:54:17
Athletics. Yeah, yeah.
1:54:18
And I was like. No, we don't really do that.
1:54:22
So I would push like the so we would just I I would just be up
1:54:27
front with them and I'd be like, look, like this is what we can
1:54:29
offer. I know you're kind of you're
1:54:32
obviously you're paying a lot to come here and school's a lot and
1:54:36
you're going to get a lot of academic.
1:54:38
The the better you academic package you can get through US,
1:54:42
like the better you do during your high school time, the more
1:54:45
we can help you out. So that was always tough.
1:54:48
And obviously I'd lose a lot of, you know, really talented
1:54:51
athletes because that would be it.
1:54:53
And you know, I don't blame them.
1:54:54
Where, you know, when I was at Springfield College is, you
1:54:57
know, getting close like is like sixty $70,000 for school And you
1:55:01
know, Quinnipiac's the same, but I can help you out more than I
1:55:04
could before, whereas I can pair that same academic grant with
1:55:10
athletic scholarship. So we try and help them out as
1:55:13
much as we can and we don't, I don't know what I always say
1:55:20
with them too, is like, especially when scholarship.
1:55:22
Now, when scholarship comes up, I usually say our, our, my usual
1:55:29
answer is like talk about, because we've talked about how
1:55:32
important the team culture is, is like, I'm not going to make
1:55:35
you an offer until I make sure that you are fitting with our
1:55:37
program. Like, like we don't, we don't, I
1:55:40
don't usually offer scholarship to anyone unless they come for
1:55:44
official visit and they're spending time with the team.
1:55:47
And then while they're on their visit, I'm talking to their
1:55:50
hosts, I'm talking to other people that have been
1:55:51
interacting with them is like, what is your feedback?
1:55:53
And there's been times when we've done that where we've been
1:55:57
really high on somebody and one of the hosts is like, I think
1:56:03
you should check out their social media and then you might
1:56:05
get a better idea of who they are.
1:56:07
And then we're we, you know, we turned down this great athlete
1:56:10
that could do that. And it's like, you know, you're,
1:56:13
I don't think you're the best fit for what we're trying to do
1:56:15
here. It it it's.
1:56:16
Super tough. Yeah, I, I was recruiting was
1:56:18
kind of my thing when I was coaching and I, I don't know if
1:56:22
if I had learned how to adapt to today's recruiting when you talk
1:56:25
about. So, so you know, I'm on social
1:56:28
media, you know, 24/7. I've sent out 100 tweets while
1:56:30
we've been doing this interview. One of the things I hear because
1:56:34
because I have a lot of empathy on both sides, the high school
1:56:37
coach and athlete side and the college coach and athlete side.
1:56:41
And that example you gave there about, hey, we don't even offer
1:56:45
until you come visit. And I, I like when you said that
1:56:47
I was kind of like, well, that makes sense because if I'm being
1:56:50
recruited, I kind of want to, I feel like I would want to know
1:56:52
that I'm, I'm not being recruited just because of my
1:56:55
marks. Like you actually want me, the
1:56:57
person on your team. I, I feel that way.
1:56:58
I, you know, again, I sit in this seat.
1:57:00
I don't know, I wasn't recruited, wasn't even close to
1:57:02
being good enough to be recruited as an athlete out of
1:57:04
high school. But I feel like Brendan's
1:57:06
calling me that I I'm more than just a A6 foot three women's
1:57:12
high jumper to him that like he sees value in me as a leader and
1:57:16
and contributor to the culture and things like that.
1:57:19
So if Brendan says, hey, we don't even offer until you come
1:57:22
for a visit. Like, oh, OK, good.
1:57:25
Like I, I want to be not just a number, right, but especially
1:57:29
with the cost of school. And This is why I kind of sit on
1:57:32
this other side of like, I don't mind that athletes are asking
1:57:34
for a scholarship or full ride in the very first e-mail or DMI
1:57:38
really don't. I'm sorry.
1:57:39
I I again, I'm not sitting your seat.
1:57:41
I might have a much different tune if I was still coaching,
1:57:45
but on this side of things of like what college and college
1:57:47
expenses, I, I have zero. And knowing that 99.9% of all
1:57:51
those kids aren't going to go pro.
1:57:53
So it doesn't matter if they get coached by you or if they get
1:57:55
coached by, I don't know, Carl Lewis, they're still not going
1:57:59
pro. So do they rack up a ton of debt
1:58:03
for one of those schools versus the other?
1:58:05
That's affected their life negatively in my opinion, right.
1:58:07
The debt. Anyway, do you?
1:58:10
Because I've heard this brought up on Twitter, world social
1:58:13
media, world don't. I've seen like a high school
1:58:17
coach saying don't bring my kid on at a visit.
1:58:22
If you. Haven't had at least some talk
1:58:23
about the scholarship because what if they're, you know,
1:58:26
you're bringing them in for a visit.
1:58:27
That's a big deal. And you're thinking like, oh,
1:58:29
man, this person would be great as a walk on or a books or
1:58:31
something like that. And they think, oh, I'm coming
1:58:33
on a visit. Coach Wilkins is bringing me in.
1:58:35
Like, oh, man, yeah, I, I, I, I, I'm not, I'm not going to get a
1:58:38
full but man, half 75. And then you sit in the office
1:58:41
and maybe have the discussion. It's like, oh, books or O walk
1:58:47
on. Well, I wouldn't have wasted my
1:58:49
or your time. Do you have some type of
1:58:52
discussion about relative amount of scholarship before visit or
1:58:57
do you wait until and I'm not judging by the way, this is not
1:59:00
a this was not a trap question of like God Dang it, brand new.
1:59:03
How do you do that? I'm just curious, how do you
1:59:05
handle setting up the expectations?
1:59:09
You know, so you guys are on the same playing field when it comes
1:59:13
to scholarship and the way you do it.
1:59:15
Yeah. I mean it's I guess it depends
1:59:19
on the individual and kind of like if they're asking those
1:59:23
questions, I'm going to be as upfront as I can with also
1:59:27
trying not to give too information, much information I
1:59:29
guess. So one of the first things I'll
1:59:34
do is when they come, like I try and get there before they come.
1:59:39
I get there unofficial transcripts even before they
1:59:40
come for an unofficial, I get their unofficial transcripts,
1:59:43
give the two admissions and now I know what you're likely going
1:59:46
to get for academic aid. So I can get it's like this is
1:59:49
what I know that admissions is telling me you're going to get.
1:59:51
And usually the the verbiage that I try and use, unless
1:59:55
they're asking for like specifics is like I'm trying to
2:00:00
give you the best package possible.
2:00:02
That makes sense with our program.
2:00:03
I'm trying to get you as close to tuition as I can with our
2:00:07
programs, a little different where we can't give like the
2:00:09
book scholarships. So we right currently we can't
2:00:13
go past the cost and maybe I, I should be giving this
2:00:16
information out to rival coaches, but can't go past the
2:00:19
cost of tuition. So they end up paying room and
2:00:22
board if we go full tuition. But if it's someone I'm big on,
2:00:28
then I don't mind sharing. Like I did the same thing the
2:00:31
the athlete that was getting pressured by, you know, division
2:00:35
of three schools. I'm like, they don't want you to
2:00:37
come for you're an official with me because they know I'm going
2:00:39
to offer and like, look and like, I don't tell this is like
2:00:42
I'm trying to be up front with you as I can like you're going
2:00:44
to get this with academic aid. You're going to get 33,000
2:00:47
academic aid and you're going to get, you know, $20,000 from US
2:00:52
athletic, you know, so that's going to pretty much pay for
2:00:54
your tuition and you're, you're just responsible for room board.
2:00:57
If you continue to improve, you know, if you start going to NCAA
2:01:00
first rounds and that then you could potentially earn a full
2:01:03
scholarship. And we, we talked to them about
2:01:05
how, you know, and we're never a program that will take
2:01:09
scholarship away either. So, and then we always talk
2:01:14
about us every year we try and save money.
2:01:16
So at the end of the year, we can reward people that are doing
2:01:19
well. So if you're working your butt
2:01:20
off, even, you know, even necessarily you're not, you
2:01:23
know, performing at the, the highest level that we expected
2:01:26
to you. If you're improving, if you are
2:01:28
helping us in the conference level, if you are a great
2:01:30
person, great leader, you're helping us out academically,
2:01:33
we're going to try and help you as much as you can.
2:01:34
Even like we'll have seniors that haven't earned a haven't
2:01:37
had a dime all year. We want to make sure that we
2:01:39
give them scholarship first. So to kind of reward them.
2:01:43
So I try and be upfront as they can and I am not someone I don't
2:01:47
want to like to waste. I don't want people to waste my
2:01:49
time. I don't want to waste their
2:01:50
time, you know, so at the recruiting process, like if I
2:01:53
getting a sense that people are interested, like I'm like, just
2:01:56
tell me now, let's not play this, you know, play this game.
2:01:58
If you're not interested, like I have other people that are very
2:02:01
interested in I'm holding the spot for you.
2:02:03
If you're not, let me move on so I can give an opportunity to
2:02:05
someone else. And kind of same thing, like I'm
2:02:07
not, I'm not really, I don't want to bring in somebody for an
2:02:10
official of I know I'm not going to offer them something, you
2:02:13
know, because I don't want to have that expectation if they're
2:02:17
going. So usually up front, I'll try
2:02:20
and cuz then like they'll say, Oh, like, OK, well, this isn't
2:02:24
going to work for me financially.
2:02:25
I'm not going to take a day and miss school and come for a visit
2:02:28
and stay overnight, you know, miss a day and a half of school
2:02:32
to come stay with you. Then I just wasted that when I
2:02:34
could have gone to another school that, you know, can give
2:02:36
me an opportunity. So I try and I try not to show
2:02:40
all my cards, but try and show enough for they can make a, a
2:02:43
sound and, you know, educational a good decision on where they're
2:02:47
going. Cuz I'm not really trying to
2:02:49
mess people up and try and be a friend.
2:02:52
When like same thing. Like if you know, I have a
2:02:55
couple of you ahead of them, it's like, and they're asking to
2:02:57
come for an official visit and like, look, I already have, we
2:02:59
have a lot of booked right now. Like I try not to book too many
2:03:02
for that exact reason. If I have a bunch of commits and
2:03:04
like you're already booked now I can't offer you anything, you
2:03:07
know. So like I try not to overbook on
2:03:10
my official business either unless I know that I can can
2:03:13
help them out. Yeah, that's where you know.
2:03:14
Recruiting that's why I say, you know, I was a pretty good
2:03:16
recruiter and and that's why I've always said I don't know if
2:03:19
I would have adapted today's recruiting in 2024.
2:03:22
My last year was 2005. You were were you in middle
2:03:24
school in 2005? You're you're.
2:03:27
Saturday, 8th grade. Yeah, yeah, I nailed.
2:03:29
It Yeah, you were in middle school when I was coaching
2:03:30
Mississippi State. That's how old I am, Brandon.
2:03:33
But it's different today in 2024.
2:03:36
And like, you know, I was pretty much like I was really good at
2:03:40
creating a relationship, but my recruiting was like it was, it
2:03:43
was based on the number. There were kind of two parts to
2:03:45
it. So the reason why I didn't care
2:03:47
about character, that sounds terrible because right now you'd
2:03:49
say, Oh no, I want good character kids, yada yada.
2:03:51
I, I have back then and still do very much believe in second,
2:03:55
third, fourth, maybe in fifth time, especially for 18 year old
2:03:58
kids. God bless.
2:04:00
Thank God I was given 2nd, 3rd, 4th, 5th chances or I wouldn't
2:04:03
be where I am today. So it was a little bit like if
2:04:06
they're a quote UN quote bad kid, well, they're still fast
2:04:09
and maybe I'm supposed to be their mentor.
2:04:11
Maybe this is where they're supposed to be, right?
2:04:15
And by the way, I've never seen a really good kid, regardless of
2:04:20
the event, who did have a bad attitude or bad character not
2:04:25
get a scholarship if their grades were fine.
2:04:26
I still haven't seen this coach that says, oh, yeah, I saw a bad
2:04:31
tweet. So I stopped.
2:04:31
I was like, well, they must not have been fast enough.
2:04:33
That's why you really dropped them because if they're, you
2:04:35
know, on the Division One level, if they were 10 flat out of high
2:04:37
school and you saw a bad tweet, I'm going to go out on a limb
2:04:41
and say that kids still going to get a good scholarship
2:04:43
somewhere. Call me crazy, but that's what I
2:04:45
believe in, right? So now you guys and gals are
2:04:51
your recruiting is so much better.
2:04:53
Like it it it is a number that's important.
2:04:56
Maybe that's the maybe that's the first thing that attracts
2:04:58
you. But body type like, oh, can they
2:05:00
get better with the way I coach? What's their history of of
2:05:03
practice? What what's, you know, obviously
2:05:06
majors and all those kind of things still play into it.
2:05:09
What kind of leadership? Like, is this a kid?
2:05:11
Like, OK, they're not really the marks I want, but man, she's
2:05:14
going to come in and get the ship going because she's a
2:05:18
leader, you know, whatever. Like, oh, that might be worth
2:05:20
1000 or 2000 or whatever more. You guys are just so much more
2:05:24
advanced on it. There's so much more nuances
2:05:27
that you guys and gals are looking into it now.
2:05:29
That's why I wonder, like, I know this is a good and we're
2:05:34
going over time. Are you good?
2:05:35
I'm so sorry. I should have asked you.
2:05:36
I'm good. Yeah.
2:05:36
OK. You know, this whole thing with
2:05:41
Division One, I don't even want to say potentially, my
2:05:44
understanding is it's going to happen a roster cap of 45.
2:05:49
And, and it's a roster cap because it's not necessarily, by
2:05:54
the way, you can give up to 45 full scholarships, but roster
2:05:57
cap of 45, meaning you can run 45 guys on your team and only
2:06:03
give out 10 scholarships if you want.
2:06:04
But I, I, I hope that we eventually, maybe 10 years, 20
2:06:08
years down the line that all division ones are at 45 cap and
2:06:11
it's 45 full rides. Because one of the things that I
2:06:13
always was jealous of for football, because they're all
2:06:18
full rides on the Division One side, right?
2:06:20
And so I was like, oh, because you, you've, you've done, you've
2:06:23
had to have seen this happen. I know this still happens.
2:06:26
You offer a kid you really like this kid and you give them 40
2:06:30
percent, 50%, whatever. And they come back and say, ah,
2:06:32
coach, I love you, love the school, but man, this, this
2:06:35
other school's giving me 70% and you go back like, can I, can I
2:06:38
get the 75? You know, barring all the
2:06:41
dollars being the equal, right? You start playing this game of
2:06:43
well, you know, like, can I, can I afford 75% for this kid?
2:06:47
When it's all full rides, that stuff's off the table.
2:06:50
It's all full. The, the money's the same.
2:06:52
You come to Quinnipiac or you come to Milo moderate Troy, it's
2:06:54
the same. So now Brendan gets the recruit
2:06:58
on coach Wilkins. Hey, do you want to do you want
2:07:02
to work with coach Cunningham or coach Wilkins?
2:07:03
Because I I believe in dot dot dot dot dot for for training
2:07:08
you. You ask coach Cunningham what he
2:07:09
does and then you get to like that seems much more like I
2:07:12
think the this is a hard way to say this.
2:07:15
I think the air quote, better coaches win more that way when
2:07:19
you take money off the table, I think the the kids go, Oh,
2:07:23
that's the kind of person I want to lead me.
2:07:25
This is the type of person I want to mentor me and I believe
2:07:28
in their style of coaching where I think sometimes kids go, let's
2:07:31
use distance runners. They're they're high mileage
2:07:33
kids. Let's say that, you know,
2:07:35
they're the type of kids that need to run, I don't know, 70,
2:07:37
eighty, 9000 miles per week. But because of a low mileage
2:07:40
coach offering them more money, they go that route, which I'm
2:07:42
not blaming them, but now it's not a good fit.
2:07:45
They go there and they're 30 miles per week or whatever.
2:07:47
It's like, oh man, you'd have been a better athlete if you'd
2:07:50
have been over here. But because of money they
2:07:52
couldn't offer you. Now when it's all full rides,
2:07:54
it's like, Oh yeah, that's the better fit for me.
2:07:56
Brandon likes to do a ton of plyos.
2:07:57
That's the better fit for me as a jumper.
2:08:00
Oh, this coach over here likes to run 800 meter repeats for
2:08:03
high jumpers. That's better for me as a high
2:08:05
jump. I'm going to go over here.
2:08:06
You take money off the table, that is a cat attacking you or I
2:08:10
see it. I'm like, I was concerned.
2:08:13
He's trying to, he's scratching the back of the chair and he, I
2:08:16
think he, he usually likes to sit in this chair.
2:08:18
So he's jealous. He wants some.
2:08:20
Yeah. He wants some camera time.
2:08:22
I get it, I get it. It's getting close.
2:08:23
To there, yeah, to dinner time, usually around like 5:00 as I
2:08:29
hear it. I hear.
2:08:29
It it'll be fine. Yeah, sorry.
2:08:31
I was pushing, yeah. I saw you and I was.
2:08:32
Like I, I like, I just saw like a tail flip.
2:08:34
I was like, it's attacking him. He's just, you know, I'm not a
2:08:36
big cat fan, so I just automatically concerned.
2:08:38
But yeah, so I just wonder like where this is going for track
2:08:43
and field and how you'll have to adjust.
2:08:46
You know, all of our coaches will have to adjust one.
2:08:47
And the crazy thing is we don't know how to adjust today.
2:08:49
And I hate that we don't know how to adjust today even though
2:08:52
we know this is coming. Because that affects your
2:08:54
recruiting today. You'd recruit differently today
2:08:56
if you knew, hey man, in 2026 you will have a a cap of 45 on
2:09:00
your team that you have to whether you have 10 scholarships
2:09:03
or 45, you will have to recruit differently.
2:09:06
And right now you're kind of, it feels like everybody's
2:09:07
recruiting in this Gray area. And I don't think that's fair to
2:09:10
you. And I don't think that's fair to
2:09:11
these 18 year olds that are trying to make very important
2:09:13
decisions either, right? Not I in that kind of, I guess
2:09:18
that picture that you're painting with, like going
2:09:21
towards the coach. And I've definitely been in
2:09:22
situations where I've lost kids, I've lost athletes and I'm kind
2:09:27
of like, did you do your research?
2:09:28
Did you realize that they don't have, hey, jumps coach that's
2:09:30
going to be working with you every single day or you know,
2:09:32
like, did you did you look at that?
2:09:34
You know, so that could be frustrating where I guess makes
2:09:37
a little even playing field. But yeah, no, it's, it's I feel
2:09:43
like I've gone through a lot of unknowns in my, in my life, you
2:09:46
know, four years ago, unknown, if you know, my job was even
2:09:50
going to exist. And now I'm kind of in a, in a
2:09:53
similar kind of round. But with us, I guess I wasn't
2:09:56
too worried about it in some sense because like roster caps
2:10:00
would kind of matches. So we only have AI, don't know
2:10:02
if you're familiar. We only have we have women's
2:10:04
track and field and cross country.
2:10:05
We just have men's cross country and on the track side we only
2:10:10
have 4546 women. So it kind of makes it easier
2:10:14
where we have other people in our conference that have 115
2:10:19
women on their team. Yeah, yeah.
2:10:21
That's. What I mean about this Gray
2:10:22
area, there's people with 100 people on their team.
2:10:24
It's like, wait, I got to go to 45 next year, right?
2:10:27
Screw recruiting. I got to figure out my own team,
2:10:29
my own 100 kids right here. That's right.
2:10:31
And I think. I think especially women's track
2:10:34
and field with some programs, a lot of it gets you use as an
2:10:40
emissions tool. So like bring as many people you
2:10:42
can. And now, and if that changes,
2:10:44
like with that program, like they have almost 200 men and
2:10:46
women on their team. And it's first of all, I don't
2:10:49
know how you coach that many people.
2:10:51
Like I, I'm scrambling around trying to coach, you know, 10
2:10:54
people, let alone 10 high jumpers, you know, so it's,
2:10:58
that's, that's already tough as it is.
2:11:01
But then now, like you go to that format, you got to, you're
2:11:05
about to have half of your roster, which is tough and, and
2:11:12
I don't know, I don't know. It's that's and that's.
2:11:16
The answer I don't know, because there's just no guidance right
2:11:19
now. It reminds me of the when the
2:11:20
World Athletics came out and said, hey, we're going to
2:11:22
experiment with a long jump thing.
2:11:24
And then they didn't say anything else.
2:11:25
And so we all just like, oh, wait a minute, well, you can't
2:11:27
do this. And that's like, well, they
2:11:28
never actually told us what they're doing.
2:11:29
So we just get to go make up our own things now as coaches.
2:11:32
And we're really good at that. That's where we are with the
2:11:34
scholarship. And it's like we don't really
2:11:36
know. We think that we guess that's
2:11:38
what's going on. But then the house versus
2:11:40
incident blade, which I think is the main driver of that got
2:11:42
pushed back. I, I mean, it's just, I don't
2:11:44
know. I, I just don't like, I, I, I
2:11:47
feel more bad for the young kids and even the, you know, the, in
2:11:50
the example of the 100 roster places, I got to go to 45 feel
2:11:53
more bad for them than I do the coaches, because I believe the
2:11:57
coaches are the most flexible. Like you guys have gotten it
2:12:01
done with no indoor facility or you know, only across country on
2:12:07
the mints. Like you've you're so flexible
2:12:09
and adaptable. The coaches are going to figure
2:12:12
this out really quick. Like for the body, not just
2:12:15
like, oh, these top ten coaches are going to figure out like
2:12:17
this. The body of coaching is going to
2:12:20
figure this out really quick and the sport of track and field is
2:12:24
going to move on really, really positively in my opinion. 18
2:12:28
year old kids, I worry about them, the they, they don't know
2:12:34
what underwear they want to wear tomorrow.
2:12:35
And we're there. They got to pick a school and a
2:12:37
coach that, you know, they may come into the squad of 100.
2:12:40
I mean, plenty of people make that choice because those
2:12:42
rosters are out there and I love those rosters.
2:12:45
Make that choice to be the 101st person and then find out the
2:12:47
very next year, oh, we got to cut down to 45.
2:12:51
That's. That's crazy.
2:12:53
That's not fair to that kid. Truly not Brendan.
2:12:56
We're past our time, brother. Leave us with this.
2:12:59
As you stare into the 2025 season and you know, you seem
2:13:02
like a little bit of a planner, so maybe you're already thinking
2:13:04
2627. What's got you excited, man?
2:13:07
As you look at Quinnipiac, your program, you, what's got you
2:13:10
excited about the future there at Quinnipiac?
2:13:14
So I feel like I this would this past year was one of my strong
2:13:18
and I, I'm hoping that this year is even stronger your recruiting
2:13:22
wise, but brought in some really talented and just like great
2:13:27
women that fit our culture perfectly.
2:13:29
And I feel like are going to help take us to a a different
2:13:32
level. So I'm really excited to see
2:13:33
what they do as well as all of our returners.
2:13:35
You know, we didn't really, we graduated a a few women that
2:13:40
were point scores for us, but you know, 90% of the team is, is
2:13:45
still here and still strong and we still have a few people
2:13:47
hanging on with COVID eligibility that are coming
2:13:50
back. So yeah, last year we had a, we
2:13:54
had someone in their 6th year that graduated last year and
2:13:58
then we have is 20. 5 going to be the last year for like the
2:14:02
Super. Yeah, OK.
2:14:04
Wow, this should be it, yeah. That is that really.
2:14:07
Affected college athletics man. Holy cow.
2:14:11
Oh yeah, no. And it's and it's and I, I don't
2:14:16
know, I I still haven't gotten into the transfer portal.
2:14:19
I try and veer away from it and because I kind of in the mind
2:14:22
setters, even when I was at Division Three level, like
2:14:25
someone transferring to me, I'm like, OK, are you just going to
2:14:28
transfer again when you don't like it again?
2:14:29
So trying to veer for that. We do get some people that
2:14:32
transfer, but it's mainly like grad students that will come on
2:14:36
it. Right now it's mainly on the
2:14:37
distance side. But yeah, we have three women
2:14:43
that will that's still have eligibility that are staying.
2:14:48
So it's exciting. I mean, and we just had two
2:14:51
teams join the conference for this year.
2:14:54
So for this we kind of had three teams that were like true, like
2:14:59
full track teams. So it'd be a lot of like three
2:15:05
teams kind of battling each other and kind of.
2:15:08
So for us, the past three years we've been just second place.
2:15:14
Like there was one year they lost by half point.
2:15:17
It was the year before I got there.
2:15:19
And then my first year we lost by like 14 points, which still
2:15:23
isn't that much, and lost by I think like 20 this past year.
2:15:28
Our biggest weakness is because our team is small and we have 3
2:15:34
full time staff, we unfortunately don't really have
2:15:37
a throws program. We have one woman who throws and
2:15:39
then I have a few multis. I did get her to score one point
2:15:43
and shot, which was awesome. And you know, being the jumps
2:15:48
coach, I'm kind of a field coach now.
2:15:49
So I'm working with those. And our head coach is great
2:15:52
where she is more predominantly a a distance coach, but she's
2:15:56
coached far better throwers than I have.
2:15:59
So, so now bringing in two more teams that are full track teams
2:16:04
now that instead of cuz we lose by maybe 20 points and they
2:16:07
score 30 unanswered points of the throws.
2:16:10
So now the hope is these two teams coming in will with throws
2:16:15
programs will now take those points away and then we just
2:16:17
take off. So we're looking for our first
2:16:21
title and track and field in in our conference cross country.
2:16:26
We're looking we've won conference the past two years
2:16:29
and we're looking for a three peat this year.
2:16:30
Definitely going to be tough, but we're looking strong and you
2:16:35
know, we always, we always say seeds are for the birds.
2:16:37
So we'll kind of see, see what happens to whoever shows up on
2:16:40
race day. So excited for that.
2:16:44
Talk before is we don't really have much facilities and a big
2:16:46
project for me this year was I wrote a big proposal to get a
2:16:50
raised runway and a sandpit and bolt mat.
2:16:53
So that'll be a big game changer for me.
2:16:56
Some of my. Athletes were spending like 60
2:16:59
to 70 hours traveling everyday to practice and now they get to
2:17:03
save time and stay on campus. So really excited for that and
2:17:06
see that helps us with not only a program but recruiting as
2:17:10
well. For sure having more stuff on
2:17:13
campus to get to stay on campus. So definitely a really exciting
2:17:16
time for quick back track and field and we'll see.
2:17:19
We'll see what happens. Well, conference.
2:17:21
Is my favorite meet as much as nationals are great and they
2:17:23
they are great it's it's phenomenal.
2:17:25
There was just something about conference and going for the
2:17:27
conference title. So to lose by half a point
2:17:30
heartbreak. We lost by .661 year.
2:17:32
We had a tie in pole vault that get us a .33 and it just breaks
2:17:35
your heart because everybody matters every point every half a
2:17:39
point that one point from your multi in this output would have
2:17:43
won it in that year that they were half a point down.
2:17:45
You know what I'm saying? So I love conference, so it's
2:17:47
exciting when schools are like, yeah, we're, you know, we're
2:17:49
we're vying for a conference championship.
2:17:51
That's a lot of fun, man. So I can see the excitement
2:17:53
level there. And I look forward to seeing how
2:17:55
that all pans out. Yeah, no.
2:17:57
And I I. See different size of our women
2:17:59
like same thing that high jumper, like some days I'm like,
2:18:03
Are you sure you're a high jumper?
2:18:04
And then when it comes time for conference, it's like, Oh my
2:18:07
gosh, everyone get out of the way.
2:18:09
Like she's getting ready to go and it's because you're, you're
2:18:12
competing. You're competing for someone
2:18:13
else, 29 other women, 20 other teammate.
2:18:16
You know, it's, it's different than even nationals when you're
2:18:18
only by yourself. It's like, well, it'd be nice to
2:18:21
win, but, you know, I'm not, I'm not jumping for Juanita and Lisa
2:18:25
anymore, but in conference, you are.
2:18:27
So that's, that's why it's my favorite meats, man.
2:18:29
I love, I love conference meats. Yeah.
2:18:31
Brendan, man, this was a lot of fun.
2:18:33
So much fun. We went over our time.
2:18:34
Yeah. I, I'm trying to be real
2:18:35
respectful of your time and I'm just so, so sorry, but this was
2:18:39
fascinating, man. I think you know, what's
2:18:40
interesting in the podcast, in the last couple of of interviews
2:18:47
that we've had here, you know, of course, we continue to to to
2:18:50
uplift and honor their journey and your journey.
2:18:52
I mean, that's fascinating to not even be thinking about it
2:18:55
until like the last part of your senior year of college.
2:18:58
I mean, that's amazing. There's that that gives me hope
2:19:01
when I see someone as a sophomore and they're like,
2:19:03
yeah, I'm not going to coach. And it's like, man, maybe you
2:19:04
will. You don't.
2:19:06
You still got a couple years to decide, right?
2:19:07
So I love that that journey and it's interesting right now is
2:19:12
where, you know, fall of 2024 of all the changes that are going
2:19:15
on with NCAA 'cause I, I, you know, I stand by what I said, I
2:19:19
think you and your peers are going to be fine because you're
2:19:23
so tough. You're so used to making tough
2:19:26
decisions and, and adaptability. That's, I mean, it's the name of
2:19:29
the game of a track coach learning how to coach pole
2:19:32
vault. That's adaptability, right?
2:19:34
I mean, that's a tough event to to try to coach and you've done
2:19:37
it, you know, excellently. So I think coaches are fine.
2:19:39
I am worried about our young people that are going to make
2:19:42
decisions that are, you know, could be financially very, very
2:19:45
costly. And we're already up against it
2:19:47
with student loans and things like that already.
2:19:49
So it's interesting to have this conversation.
2:19:51
So I do appreciate your perspective and experience on
2:19:54
that level. That's why I was glad we could
2:19:56
go a little bit overtime because I really was interested in, you
2:19:59
know, your feedback on on those kind of things that are going on
2:20:02
right now and in our great sport.
2:20:04
So. So thank you, man, Really,
2:20:06
really grateful. I love your journey.
2:20:07
Your journey matters, man. And I'm just so humbled to be
2:20:11
able to share it with our audience.
2:20:12
You're, you were so authentic in your telling of your story.
2:20:16
It's just amazing. I think it's going to help a lot
2:20:18
of people and I'm just really, really grateful for your time,
2:20:20
my friend. Yeah, I'm as long as it touches
2:20:24
someone, you know, but no, I appreciate you and like, like I
2:20:27
said, I, I, I'm always good on time.
2:20:30
I I probably could have been on here for another two hours, but
2:20:33
so I appreciate you and you could have but your.
2:20:37
Cat would not have let you. That's the problem.
2:20:39
Yeah, he's eyeing. Me right now, but no, I
2:20:43
appreciate all you do and all you do for us coaches.
2:20:45
It's, it's, this is something I've been looking forward to
2:20:47
doing for a while and, you know. No.
2:20:51
You you are definitely really appreciated with throughout all
2:20:55
coaches. So thank you for all you do.
2:20:56
Yeah, well, you guys. Deserve it.
2:20:57
Thank you. Thank you guys for being here.
2:20:59
Like I said, you know, I'm not sure it's a podcast if no one
2:21:01
presses play. And I'm just so, so grateful
2:21:04
that you'd press play to hear Brendan's story this week and
2:21:07
all the stories we've had in the past.
2:21:08
And again, guess what? We're going to do it again next
2:21:10
week. Join us next week.
2:21:11
We'll do it all over again. Thanks, everybody.
2:21:12
Have a good one. If it goes to appreciate the
2:21:16
coach, the ones that point people most every season needs a
2:21:19
voice of reason speaking the growth you got to prep for.
2:21:22
You carry the load ice coffee to the soul.
2:21:24
For those of us who stay on the go proper handoff to stay in the
2:21:27
zone which you packing for the road.
2:21:29
There's more than one way to go taking those SPA on your toe.
2:21:33
It ain't practice if your purpose ain't Claire.
2:21:35
It can't happen until you listen with both is you can't mentor
2:21:38
without a mentor of years of experience.
2:21:40
You can reinvent those years Every plan's got to stand and
2:21:43
deliver to and the price sacrifice can you give up you.
2:21:47
It's a choice and the fight not a win or lose.
2:21:49
It's not a ploy boy device. Y'all can make more moves.
2:21:52
It's not about how to it's all about why you don't know till
2:21:55
you know who you are inside 6,000,000 Waste of time, choose
2:21:59
none. So we y'all cross finish line.
2:22:00
The work ain't done so we learn from the experts but y'all got
2:22:03
to put in the leg work, kill athletics, use the network.
2:22:06
It's all about connections put together for the profession to
2:22:10
where every track coach could be blessing.