Latest / A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast / Talks to the glorious Jason Thompson (in person!) about his choice of The Sea Devils (1/6)

Transcript

Talks to the glorious Jason Thompson (in person!) about his choice of The Sea Devils (1/6) · A Hamster With a Blunt Penknife - a Doctor Who Commentary podcast

0:23
None. Hamster with a blunt.
0:34
Pen knife for doing. Quicker, quicker.
0:39
Quicker Welcome back to A Hamster with a Blunt Pen Knife
0:43
the Doctor Who Commentary Podcast.
0:45
I am Jason Thompson and I am not only here with the amazing Joe
0:49
Ford, I'm actually here with the amazing Joe Ford.
0:52
He's come all the way to Eastbourne today.
0:54
We've just been down the pier for a bit of lunch.
0:57
Very nice it was too. We've got a gloriously sunny
0:59
day, and we're choosing to spend it in a dark room watching the
1:02
six episodes of the Sea Devils. Well, what else do you do on a
1:05
gloriously sunny day, Joe? Really.
1:07
You. And me talk about Doctor Who.
1:08
That's very unusual because I I will say one thing to you
1:11
because we're sort of snuggled up here on the sofa about to
1:14
watch this together, is I do normally sit and watch TV in my
1:17
underpants, but today I've put on jeans for you.
1:20
I hope you appreciate the effort.
1:22
I wish you'd told me that before I strip down to my own.
1:26
Put it away, honestly. Just to reassure any listeners
1:29
of of a nervous disposition, we are both fully clear.
1:33
It's all good. It's all good.
1:35
I'm not confirming or denying that statement.
1:38
But we are doing something rather unusual for us for for
1:41
our podcast in the all the episodes of the story we're
1:44
about to watch actually exist, which it's been a while.
1:47
What's a lot? It was a Surrounded conundrum.
1:50
So you hang on. I'm going to try and get this
1:52
right in order. We started with Mysterious
1:54
Planet. We did fabulous.
1:56
I'd never thought I'd find anyone that would champion that
1:58
one. I love it.
1:59
We had a lovely chat about that. In fact.
2:01
Didn't I hear you whoring yourself off on?
2:03
Dave Rennie's talking about that as well.
2:06
Yes, yeah, indeed. Yeah.
2:07
So if anyone else wants to do a podcast about Mysterious Planet,
2:10
I am. I believe Jason Miller might be
2:13
doing the Target books soon. I've not long read that so.
2:17
There we go. Perfect.
2:19
Then we did Suranga Conundrum. Another one I figured I'd
2:22
struggle to find somebody to talk to about.
2:26
Then we did Para the Daleks. We did.
2:29
Then we did the Daleks master plan in three separate
2:34
recordings because, God help us, nobody can talk for.
2:37
Nobody's going to sit through 13 episodes solid talking.
2:40
We'd have been completely insane by the end of it.
2:44
What is the runtime of the Dalek's master plan?
2:48
Dalek master plan must be something like 4 hours or so.
2:50
I got 4 1/2 hours. Talk to me for five hours.
2:54
Solid. Oh, wait, we've done that today,
2:56
haven't we? It's.
2:57
Long. It's longer than that because we
2:59
always talk a lot longer around the episodes.
3:01
So it's true. In fact, the runtime of that
3:03
story plus mission to the unknown is still the longest
3:06
ever hamster, I think. I think Flux comes close because
3:12
there was a lot of extra conversation there and I haven't
3:14
done the war games yet, so we'll see then we did.
3:18
Evil of the Daleks. That's the last one we did
3:21
that's. The last one we did, yes.
3:24
And now we're back in glorious Technicolor in.
3:26
Glorious Technicolor with something that has something in
3:28
common with the last one. We did actually go on in that,
3:32
as with the evil of the Daleks, we both watched this one
3:34
recently at the BFI. We did and it was glorious.
3:38
Wasn't it wonderful? There is something about, and I
3:41
said to you before, I don't really like big crowds, so I
3:45
sort of shield away from the last couple of BF is because it
3:48
sometimes it is a bit overwhelming.
3:49
I know people look at me as strange when I say that because
3:52
they figure I'm the most sociable person going.
3:54
But I like this. I like one-on-one.
3:56
That's there's a world of difference between being
3:58
sociable with one or two people at a time, especially over the
4:01
podcast, if you're separated by geography and you're in your own
4:05
room versus being surrounded by people.
4:08
Because yeah, OK, Yeah. For most of it, you're sat in a
4:10
darkened room and it doesn't really matter that there are 400
4:12
people sitting around you because you can ignore them.
4:14
But then you have to do the bar and the.
4:16
But that's the bit I like. So watching the programme and
4:19
and sharing the experience and so I love that bit of it.
4:22
And and people laughing at stuff that I've never considered funny
4:26
before, they're realising, just like Revelation of the Daleks.
4:28
I never knew how funny that was until I watched it with that
4:31
crowd well. I tell you what you what you
4:32
missed on the five doctors. Oh.
4:34
No, was. Everybody joining in with what?
4:37
No, not the Mind Probe, which was hilarious.
4:40
That. Was absolutely brilliant, yes.
4:44
Even Peter Davidson. He may have done.
4:46
I don't. Know.
4:47
But he did. It could be a bit cheeky
4:50
sometimes, no? But it was a it was a fabulous
4:53
watch through and I think they they sensibly cut it into three
4:57
lots of two episodes. Yes.
4:59
With interviews in between. They did, yeah.
5:02
So, so we're doing a bit of marks in for the BFI now, but go
5:06
to those events because it is the full package, yeah.
5:09
They are difficult to get hold of the tickets sometimes.
5:13
I mean, the five doctors sold out in 3 minutes, but you know,
5:15
it was a big thing that was going to go quick.
5:19
But if you can get to the BFI, if you can get a ticket or you
5:22
know someone who can get you a ticket, absolutely recommend it.
5:26
It's one of my favorite Doctor Who events that I've ever done.
5:30
I've now been to so many of them.
5:31
I'm going to miss the next one actually because I have a prior
5:33
engagement. The.
5:34
Underwater menace? Honestly.
5:36
Absolute classic. How could you?
5:38
So I shan't be there for that one unfortunately, but yeah,
5:41
definitely recommend. I hope it's a wedding or a
5:43
funeral or something like that, that you're going to miss a trip
5:46
to Atlantis for. Oh, you're remaining tight lips.
5:50
All right, it's. Because I don't want a lynch mob
5:53
going after the people I'm going to see.
5:56
Fair enough, Fair enough. The Sea Devils.
6:00
The Sea Devils, No. Obviously we're going to talk
6:01
throughout the episodes, but I do want to ask you one question
6:04
before we go in. Oh, you surprised me, Joe.
6:06
Wow. We're here, we're here, your
6:09
inquisition begins. And that is, it's not a unit
6:13
story. And yet, is this still a quint,
6:17
the sort of the quintessential poetry story I?
6:21
Think it really is, because it's not UNIT, but it's still a
6:24
military organization being involved with aliens.
6:30
And yeah, I think it's it's very much quintessential 3rd Doctor
6:36
era, I think. I mean you.
6:39
You practically bit my hand off to do this one on Hamster, so I
6:45
want an explanation as to why. Because there's sort of quite a
6:48
few Purpleys I haven't done yet. I haven't done Inferno yet, you
6:51
know? And yet you specifically asked
6:53
for the Sea Devils. So why this one?
6:56
The Sea Devils is a personal favorite.
6:59
I know it comes in for a lot of Flack because it's basically
7:01
just the Silurians redone with the Master chucked in and is
7:06
less interesting, doesn't cover the same moral dilemmas as the
7:09
Silurians, et cetera, et cetera. It's basically Malcolm Hulk just
7:12
rehashing a story that he's already done, which is fair, but
7:17
it is also a brilliantly done. I think it's, I think it's a
7:22
really nicely polished production, generally speaking,
7:24
with one possible exception which will come to in episode 6,
7:27
which is just ludicrous. I knew there'd be something in
7:31
here you'd find ludicrous. Oh, there's plenty of ludicrous
7:33
stuff in it. That's what.
7:34
It's Doctor Who. The whole premise is ludicrous.
7:36
Let's be honest, That is true. That is true.
7:38
But the Sea Devils? Are on safer ground usually On
7:41
these Earthbound stories, Aren't you usually.
7:43
Usually, usually, but the Sea Devils in particular because a
7:48
because I was still riding high on the BFI experience of doing
7:52
it, which was just fabulous and BI mean my first Purpley story.
7:57
Oh, the repeats in the. Repeats in 1992.
8:00
Yeah, BBC Two. So yeah, my very first Jon
8:02
Pertwee story, and it has a connection to my childhood as
8:07
well because it's, I know it's not supposed to be set there,
8:10
but it's filmed in Portsmouth and my family, my grandparents,
8:15
are all from around Hampshire. So when I was a kid we used to
8:18
go to Portsmouth quite regularly, used to go to the
8:20
harbour and see the see the Arc Royal and the other naval ships
8:23
and what have you and that that sea Fort.
8:26
It's a hotel now, isn't? It I think a.
8:28
Friend of mine stayed. I think it's got a golf course
8:31
on top of it, yeah. I can believe it, but that Sea 4
8:34
is something I've seen many times.
8:35
So when I saw it pop up on the telly because I didn't know
8:37
anything about the Sea Devils when I first saw it, I thought,
8:39
oh, hang on. So it kind of has a connection
8:42
to my to my family as well, as tenuous as it is.
8:46
So that's why I kind of really, really enjoy watching the Sea
8:48
Devils. I am going to take a punt and
8:52
say I think this might be one of the most robust productions of
8:58
any Doctor Who story. The location work, the hardware
9:02
on display, the you know, the the Navy, so the numbers of
9:06
people there, the action sequences, even the stock
9:10
footage which really does suit the action.
9:13
Half the time I when I was being shot and was stock footage, I
9:17
mean usually when it's sort of bombers going up in the air,
9:18
things like that. I figure that they've taken that
9:20
from the library, but it's one of the those stories where I
9:23
just don't think there's too much to be embarrassed by.
9:26
I remember well and I'll say that with the knowledge that
9:30
when I first watched this on BBC Two, I told you earlier, my
9:33
uncle, who was babysitting me aged 12, I was a very young 12,
9:39
derided the Sea Devils, calling them the monsters where the eyes
9:43
don't move. And he's been saying that
9:45
whenever I talk, bring up Doctor Who, he's like, is it the
9:48
monsters with the eyes? Like I showed him the CGI and
9:51
Sea devils are the reason why I went.
9:53
Look, the eyes are moving. And he went, oh, they ain't
9:56
moving much, are they? I was like, oh, for God's sakes.
9:58
So no pleasing. You either get it or you don't,
10:01
right? But but I think in terms of
10:03
money on the screen, this is one of the best Doctor Who stories.
10:07
Yeah, I think it is a really solid production.
10:10
Say, as you say, the location work and the studio work and the
10:13
stock footage all work together nicely.
10:15
Sometimes the stock footage in a Doctor Who story doesn't work,
10:18
like Boris's Sky Striker, the model, which then cuts to a
10:23
very. Recognizable as they got the the
10:25
name of the rocket A. Very recognizable Saturn 5
10:28
launch with the words United States going up the side of the
10:31
screen. There was a United States, I
10:33
believe Arden Volga, the planet of.
10:35
Gold there may well have been, but yeah, so.
10:38
So sometimes the stock footage is just a little bit too
10:41
jarring. But in this one it really,
10:43
really works. Really gels nicely.
10:45
Well, we've got 6 episodes to get through.
10:49
Shall I press play on episode? Well, we.
10:50
Better get started with episode one, haven't we?
10:52
Look we. Talked 10 minutes already?
10:53
Look, we haven't even started yet.
10:55
Get started. Let's go counters in them.
10:56
These good people want to hear us talking about Doctor Who, OK
11:00
in 321. Off we go.
11:06
I may have to change the we've got a little bit of volume
11:08
there. That's nice.
11:09
That's good. OK, that's very daylight, that
11:13
title sequence, isn't it? Oh, he is, yeah.
11:15
Nice. Nicely remastered on Blu-ray.
11:17
God. Look how gorgeous he looks in
11:20
HD. Oh John Pertway.
11:23
I've got much to say about John Pertway in this story because I
11:25
do believe we might see him at his best and his worst.
11:29
Quite possibly, Quite possibly, yeah.
11:34
Doctor Who loves a cold open, doesn't it?
11:38
It does, yeah. This reminds me a bit of Terry
11:41
the Zygons as well. You know, that's.
11:42
Very similar sort of thing, isn't it?
11:44
Yeah, sudden distress call. And I like the little touches,
11:48
like Captain Hart walking in, fastening up his jacket, because
11:51
he's clearly. Just woken up, probably in.
11:52
For this emergency, and his hair's a bit untidy.
11:57
Can we talk about Hart straight away then?
11:58
Because I think I'm going to be a bit controversial and say I
12:02
think Edwin Richfield gives a more interesting performance as
12:08
Hart than Nicholas Courtney does as the Brigadier.
12:11
Now he's a reliable figure, the Brigadier, and, but we kind of
12:15
know what to expect from him for the most part.
12:17
I feel like he's a bit edgy. Captain Hart, He's a bit spiky.
12:20
He is, yeah. I I do like Captain Hart, and I
12:24
think it's quite nicely placed, actually, in the narrative,
12:27
because by this point the Doctor's been exiled to Earth
12:30
for two and a bit years already. He settled in as the UNIT
12:33
scientific advisor. You know what you're going to
12:35
get from the Brigadier. He doesn't have to convince
12:38
anyone of his intentions or anything like that.
12:40
And now you get in. Square one, aren't we?
12:42
Back at square one, he's come up to a new military base and he's
12:45
got to persuade this guy that he knows what he's talking about
12:47
and he should be taken seriously.
12:49
Jon Pertwee is clearly in his element on the sea.
12:52
Of course, yes. Yeah, I love to see as well, you
12:55
know. That's why.
12:56
That's why I'm here in Eastbourne, I've got to say,
13:00
because I've always found the location work in the Sea Devils
13:04
a bit distracting because on the VHS it was very grainy and a bit
13:08
sort of ugly looking. The colours were all wrong.
13:11
They've really polished it up. It looks bloody gorgeous on this
13:15
blue ray. It does indeed.
13:17
Oh my. Here's what's his name.
13:20
Trenchard. Yes.
13:21
Trenchard, yeah. Another interesting character.
13:26
Yeah, very much so. And these little Citroen 2 CVS
13:30
with their doors missing? That's.
13:32
Michael, have you heard the commentary of the story?
13:34
No, I haven't. So okay, this is where a lot of
13:36
my trivia is gonna come from. Because you've got Barry.
13:39
Let's Terrace Sticks Mark Lee Bryan and it's been moderated by
13:43
Andrew Carmel the only time he did it and I can see why.
13:48
Because he's not only moderating, he's given his
13:50
opinion throughout. Correct me if I'm wrong, but is
13:58
the Doctor a little patronising with Trenchild?
14:02
Oh, completely, completely and totally.
14:04
Yes. He's a he's an authority figure
14:07
who's just, I mean, he started off by demonstrating himself to
14:12
be an authority figure by ignoring them when they first
14:14
walked in, which, you know, bound to take the doctor off.
14:17
Is that a deliberate move on his part though, or that's?
14:20
A deliberate move. It's like this is I'm the boss.
14:22
Just making sure everyone knows I'm the boss.
14:24
So is he a lot smarter than he seems?
14:27
Trenchant. I don't think he's particularly
14:29
smart. I think he just knows how to
14:32
present the appearance of authority.
14:34
But I don't think he's a particularly oh, I think.
14:37
That might be the same staircase that's in the doctor's lab.
14:40
You know that's bar or staircase there.
14:41
Oh, that's the same staircase that crops up in God knows how
14:43
many places in various different television.
14:46
Shows. Look at Perry's parcel.
14:47
It's a fabulous publicity picture, but I do think, What's
14:54
the actor's name? Who plays Trenchard?
14:56
Oh, I can't remember. We'll look it up in between.
14:59
Yeah, we'll look it up in between.
15:00
Toby Like spinning it is. Sorry, sorry Toby.
15:04
I've not long listened to your commentary about the Sea Devils
15:07
either so well in mind. If he's listening, I'm sure
15:11
he'll forgive. Us.
15:12
I do think he manages to bring some dignity to the part, even
15:15
though the right and obviously is sort of talking down to the
15:18
character. Very much so, yeah.
15:20
He's the the the the CSO Venetian blinds, which is the
15:26
How do we get a monitor? We can't.
15:27
We don't actually want to put a television screen in.
15:29
Let's put a bright yellow Venetian blind in and CSO the.
15:31
Image But look at this, we go straight through the television.
15:35
That's a through the blinds into the room.
15:37
That's I think Michael Bryan, hot off the heels of Colony in
15:42
Space, where he learnt a lot. And I know in fact I am going to
15:47
pitch to you to do Colony in Space because I think, one, you
15:50
said you're willing to do it and two, I think it would be a
15:53
really interesting conversation because I I rather like it.
15:55
I'm. Very happy to do Colony in
15:56
space. I rather like Colony in space.
15:58
But this is a more polished production.
16:00
Yes, he's figured out kind of what works and what doesn't.
16:03
This is as you say. This is a really nicely polished
16:07
production. Oh gosh, I don't know how to
16:11
start talking about Roger Delgado without fawning.
16:16
He's brilliant. There's not much else you can
16:19
say. He's just absolutely superb let.
16:21
Me ask you a sort of potentially controversial question and was
16:25
he ever bettered? I don't.
16:31
I don't think he was. No, I don't think he was
16:33
bettered. I think that the masters that
16:36
followed did very well. I think Anthony Ailey wisely, he
16:44
didn't try to emulate Roger Delgado and did his own thing,
16:46
partly on the direction of John Nathan Turner, to be a bit more
16:49
arch and pantomime esque. But he brings.
16:52
Value though, doesn't he? You just saw the five doctors at
16:55
the BFI, you know? Yeah, and they.
16:59
Be seated. You know the bit where I saw
17:03
nothing to see them, the bit where they go, it's a power
17:05
boosted open and did transmod beam.
17:07
And he goes, oh, it's great. I do like this scene with the
17:13
Doctor and the Master where they have a bit of a laugh at
17:18
Trenchard's expense. The doctor's concerned for him,
17:21
he says. Are they treating you right?
17:22
You know, it's. And you know what?
17:25
I think it was a very savvy move as well because we've had a
17:28
story set in a prison in the previous season that they set it
17:32
in this castle. It's a bit more visually
17:34
interesting than just doing another prison set.
17:37
Yeah, yeah, it is. And the doctor pleaded for him
17:44
not to be executed, which is quite.
17:48
AI like it when Pearly is suddenly incredibly, intensely
17:52
serious like that, he goes. You should consider yourself
17:54
lucky. A lot of people were vying for
17:57
the death penalty. Yeah, I like the relationship
18:01
between the 3rd Doctor and the Master to.
18:06
Take it. You're a changed man, Jason.
18:10
Now I'm the same as I ever was. But the whole thing about the
18:16
master pretending to be a prisoner in this prison that
18:21
he's completely in control of now, I Have you ever watched
18:24
Bugs in the 90s? Oh, yes.
18:28
They had the character Jean Daniel in series 2 where in a
18:32
lot of Stephen Gallagher episodes and he was in prison,
18:34
he he was put away at the end of series one.
18:36
And throughout series 2 he's doing all sorts of things from
18:39
his prison cell. And then it turns out 2/3 of the
18:42
way through the he's bought out the prison and he's now the
18:44
Governor and he pulls a gun on the Governor and shoots him.
18:47
And I swear to God, Stephen Gallagher's watched this because
18:50
he's definitely a fan of Doctor Who.
18:53
I mean it's just it's ripe for sort of comedy, isn't it?
18:57
It's so charming it doesn't know I.
19:05
Part. Yeah, that was good.
19:07
It doesn't happen too often, does it?
19:08
Makes that moment in Lagopolis stand out, doesn't it it?
19:11
Does it does very much. He's having a great time.
19:20
You feel sorry for him? Well, we were at school
19:22
together, so yeah. Do you think it's good that
19:26
that's remained ambiguous? Yes.
19:31
You like, I'm surprised the new series because they they're
19:33
usually so specific with sort of emotional relationships and
19:39
things like that, but they haven't confirmed or denied
19:42
anything, have they? Friends, relatives.
19:45
It's all sort of been left up in the air.
19:47
It has, and I think it's better for it.
19:50
I think that you can go a bit mad with connections and
19:55
everything else like that. It's.
19:58
Where do you think that line was going to end then, in Planet of
20:00
Fire? I think it did end.
20:04
I don't think it was going to be your own something.
20:06
I think it was show mercy to your own, as in one of your own
20:10
people. Yeah.
20:12
So I don't think it actually was going anyway.
20:14
Oh, I forgot to say, didn't I? Sorry.
20:16
Now the car's back on the screen.
20:19
Yeah, Michael Bryant was like, well, I didn't want these boring
20:21
cars in my thing, he goes. So I thought if I just take off
20:24
the boot and all the doors, they'd look like futuristic
20:27
space cars. And Barry less goes, but we're
20:30
not in the future. I love Barry.
20:33
That's it talks a lot of sense. Oh dear.
20:36
But then obviously, Michael Bryant is always going for the
20:40
for the visual. Yes.
20:45
How do you find this relationship then, The master
20:47
and trenches? I think it's great.
20:51
I like the fact that they did something different with it,
20:54
because by this point we've had enough of the Master hypnotizing
20:57
people to do his bidding. He's done it in so many other
21:01
places. So to actually have him just
21:04
play on Trenchard's patriotism, as we later find out you it kind
21:12
of makes the Master a more interesting character that he's
21:15
got the measure of the man and knows how to manipulate him,
21:18
rather than just going straight for the hypnotic.
21:22
You Will obey me kind of thing. It's He doesn't have that hold
21:25
over Trenchard. It's far less interesting in the
21:27
Time Monster we've I forget the fella's name.
21:30
You know the the guy who's oh. Doctor Percival.
21:32
Yeah, yeah, yeah. Who like he he he does hypnotize
21:36
him, doesn't he? He does.
21:37
And he's just his stooge, effectively.
21:40
Yeah, no, I think it's much better, much better done this
21:45
way. And as I say, it makes the
21:47
master more interesting because he can manipulate people.
21:49
It's not just about his ability to hypnotize and control people.
21:52
He can actually manipulate people in the way that a lot of
21:57
other people do. What?
21:59
We were talking about this earlier, weren't we?
22:02
Yeah. As Royston Tikner, As as Robins.
22:07
Is that his name? Yeah, Royston Tikner.
22:09
He was a a friend of Michael E Bryant's.
22:11
Also a sailing man. Michael E Bryant, as I was
22:14
saying, have you seen the extra feature on the disc where he's
22:17
going eco sailing? No, it's brilliant.
22:19
It's good fun. Michael Michael E Bryant's
22:21
thing. I love spending money on these
22:23
travel logs. But but yeah, this is Royston
22:28
Tickler, who was but he'd all he'd been in Doctor Who before
22:32
he was Steinberger P Green in The Dalek's master plan, the
22:35
feast of Stephen, the American director.
22:38
In the I mean, I don't know what, I didn't spot him straight
22:40
away, you know? How did you not recognise him
22:43
for that missing episode? Not one of those Americans was
22:46
he Oh my God, that you know. Yeah, that was him.
22:51
We had great fun with that, didn't we?
22:52
We did. Here, here's Jon Pertwee on the
22:55
water where where he loves to be not.
22:57
For the last time in this story. No.
23:02
But oh, it's a nice calm day. Yeah, that is.
23:05
You couldn't see that in any great detail.
23:07
All those boats in the old VHS. Yeah, it.
23:09
Was very, very grainy. I feel like they they've made
23:13
the colours pop as well. More it it just looks the.
23:15
Restoration work in these Blu rays has been brilliant, so this
23:20
this building is now derelict. This.
23:23
Is that Portsmouth? Is it?
23:25
Yeah, it's in. Portsmouth and it was a a naval
23:30
supply station I believe, but it's now a Derek's building.
23:33
I think that's a really nice back cloth out that window there
23:38
because it's got depth to it, hasn't it?
23:39
It has, yeah. It's, you know, I didn't, I
23:43
didn't realise it was a back cloth until obviously I became
23:45
more familiar with how they should shoot television shows
23:48
and things like that. But yeah, so so here we are in
23:53
in Portsmouth, on the beach and and there's June Murphy playing
24:00
Blythe, who'd also been in Doctor Who before she was Maggie
24:04
Harris in Fury From the Deep. What?
24:07
I didn't know that. Have you not been paying
24:09
attention to my Twitter threads about Doctor Who actors who have
24:12
been in things? Before I read all your Twitter
24:14
threads, Yeah, you missed that one cliffhanger Fred with
24:17
intense interest. I'm still working on that one
24:20
I've moved into. The How did I not know that was
24:21
Maggie Harris? I've no idea, Joe.
24:23
How did you not? Know every now and again, you
24:25
know, because obviously I make some connections myself.
24:29
Actors that have been in different things.
24:30
The obvious one was Marco. Sheer things like that, and even
24:34
some of the more tenuous ones. I never realised that.
24:37
OK, I've learnt something. Well, that's nice.
24:41
There you go. Look how charmed it is.
24:42
I wonder if I could see your commanding of songs.
24:44
I think most of those guys are actual naval people as well,
24:48
because obviously they've had a lot of the naval people actually
24:52
taking part in this. All this location, this all
24:54
looks so expensive. It does, It looks good.
24:57
It sort of feels a bit Avengers. You know how that was always
25:01
done on film and with lots of location work and lots of
25:04
hardware? Look at Joe on the motorbike,
25:08
Joe on the motor. We've got to talk about Joe in
25:10
this story. The.
25:11
Clangers. The clangers.
25:15
Oh, didn't this get such a laugh?
25:17
And a cheer at the BFI? What a what a what a brilliantly
25:21
silly moment it is. And yet it kind of encapsulates
25:24
the relationship between the Master and Trenchard.
25:28
He's the face. The.
25:29
Look where it is. Only puppets.
25:31
You know, for children. And then your face is like God,
25:35
what are you? It's so funny, So, so funny.
25:41
Delgado is sublime, isn't he? Terrorist, Dick says on the
25:44
Coventry. He goes, he goes, you know,
25:48
every time Roger appears on the screen, a quality goes from
25:51
there to there. Yeah, and he's right.
25:53
He literally, he could lift anything.
25:57
I don't really think he's going to dart, you know, because I
25:59
really like the Thai monster. No, I think he's I I enjoy the
26:03
Thai monster. I can see why people think it's
26:06
a bit Duff, and it certainly isn't devoid of flaws, but is
26:11
that the? Story where he gets the line.
26:14
I'm going to need a new television colour of course, but
26:20
I think Hulk knows that he's a great character to write for as
26:23
well, so he gives him like top quality material.
26:27
Yeah, he's got some really good stuff in the when.
26:29
He's writing for him in Frontier in Space, some of those lines.
26:33
No one else would be on a course for Earth.
26:35
We are on a course for Earth. Well, naturally, because we're
26:38
following them. Oh.
26:41
You're right, I buy that Dalek. Stupid tin boxes all All we
26:46
lacked in that story was that final scene that's in the in the
26:49
book where he tidies up his papers.
26:51
There's that sea Fort, which I saw from the sea front because I
26:56
used to go to Portsmouth with my Manana Mcgramp and we used to do
27:01
the typically British thing. I don't know if people still do
27:03
it. They probably don't.
27:05
We used to drive somewhere with a thermos and a box of
27:08
sandwiches. When I was sick.
27:10
In the car, drinking your tea and eating your sandwiches,
27:13
looking out of the windscreen. And I remember Victoria would
27:18
lampoon that. Why do we do that?
27:20
Can you imagine going to the Taj Mahal and going, That's very
27:22
nice. It would look better with a
27:23
windscreen wiper and a tax disk. We went to Selsey, right?
27:27
And we rented a caravan and we never left the caravan.
27:31
We sat in the caravan the whole week.
27:33
Like, I'm like, now looking back at back in the day off.
27:37
Like, that's amazing. Yeah, we're going somewhere new.
27:38
Oh yeah. What were you thinking?
27:41
But that was a thing We used to go.
27:42
We used to watch the boats going in.
27:44
When I was a kid my dad used to drive us down to New Haven
27:47
harbour and we'd watch the boats go in because of the New Haven
27:51
Diet ferry and we'd watch them go in.
27:53
I was very familiar with the ferries.
27:54
I used to recognise the different funnels.
27:57
I still haven't brought their names, I.
27:59
Worked just just by the harbour because there's a store just
28:03
there for a couple of weeks and I used to go down on my lunch
28:05
break and watch the boats coming in and out.
28:08
It's still a joy, you know? God, there's so much I want to
28:11
talk about this. I've just heard Malcolm Clark's
28:14
music, but maybe I'll save that for episode 2.
28:16
I'll save for music for episode 2 I.
28:18
Do want to say about that C4? He shoots that brilliantly, but
28:23
and it it's that sort of fallacy that Doctor Who's always over
28:26
lit, the light comes right down. In fact, it looks like it's on
28:30
location half the time. Yeah, the the studios in this
28:34
are are really good. As we said, it's a really
28:37
polished location. The location and the studios
28:38
match up. Sometimes in Doctor Who you'll
28:40
get a studio which is supposed to be inside something that
28:44
they've shot on location, you think, but that doesn't.
28:47
Where does that get? I can't work out how that fits.
28:50
Whereas this all looks very much, yeah, this, this, this
28:54
interior of Captain Hart's office is exactly how you'd
28:57
imagine the inside of that building that we just saw to
28:59
look. And I imagine it's exactly how
29:00
it did look. And you know, I always think
29:02
directors and magicians because earlier on you had a sequence
29:05
where we were looking out the window, we went on location to
29:08
see the doctor coming in, then we she shot from outside looking
29:12
in the window. So it all gave a very sort of
29:15
inside, outside perspective. You know, that sounds like an
29:20
obvious thing to do, but those two directors aren't always that
29:23
thoughtful. No, but this, I mean this set on
29:26
the on the four guys doing their thing.
29:29
I mean, I can, it's so well lit and dressed and everything.
29:34
I can almost smell the old the old brickwork and.
29:39
The rust, The rust. And the salt air and everything
29:42
I can almost imagine being. There's lots of little sort of
29:46
set dressing as well. The tins on there, the the,
29:50
Yeah, rusty old radio. Yeah, this shot look looking
29:53
down. Down.
29:54
Down for the ladder, Yeah, that's.
29:56
It's a mirror shot that isn't. It, yeah.
29:58
And we do it a couple of times in the 1st, 2:00 because he's
30:01
got a really imaginative shot, so he wants to keep doing it,
30:05
which there's the echo on their voices, there's the echo on the
30:09
floor and it's well, so it doesn't sound like a load of
30:12
sort of plywood. And the brickwork looks really
30:15
good. You know it's not brickwork.
30:17
It's fake brickwork because this is in a studio, but it you know.
30:20
Barry Less is hugely complimentary of the lighting in
30:23
this story. I think the way it's been, the
30:26
way it's been put together, and it's, as you say, it's a very
30:28
polished production. This, of course, is Declan
30:30
Mulholland in his Master Jabba the Hutt, before they decided
30:37
the Jabba the Hutt was going to be a big slug because they cut
30:40
him out of the. It didn't stop him going to all
30:41
those conventions though, did it?
30:43
Well, of course not. That's Look at that shot there.
30:46
The Sea Devil's head turning around in the dark.
30:48
They knew how to do it back then, only enticing little
30:51
glimpses of the monsters. The perk where he's sitting on
30:54
the sofa there look like he owns the place.
30:59
OK, can we just address his arrogance?
31:02
Is it funny or is it irritating? Because I I've heard both
31:06
arguments and I know we're awful.
31:09
I think it falls. It straddles that line very
31:12
effectively and I think it makes a nice, a nice edge to the
31:19
character. He's not just a nice bloke
31:22
coming in trying to help. No, he's it works because you
31:26
really, really gives the Doctor the air of underlying
31:32
frustration that he's stuck on this planet.
31:35
He hasn't just arrived and got himself involved.
31:37
He's stuck in on Earth. He doesn't want to be on Earth,
31:42
but he's kind of got to get on with it.
31:43
So I think he adds a nice little bit of edge to it.
31:46
Of course he's mad as a Hatter because he's just mentioned
31:48
being friends with Horatio. He was a close personal friend
31:51
of mine. Yeah, I mean, the way he does.
31:53
It was such gravity. The The fellow's as mad as a
31:56
Hatter. Edwin Richfield as Captain Hart
32:00
is superb and God was he wasted in the twin dilemma.
32:04
Yeah, I talked about that very recently actually.
32:06
Why would you take an actor of that calibre and whack him under
32:10
the? Voice, I think, isn't it is the
32:11
voice, and it's a good voice. And with arms that don't move.
32:18
Take care not to blow their hearts or minds now.
32:21
Is that Katie Manning, though? I mean that ladder do we think
32:23
Stuart? Fell wiggling his bottom Stuart.
32:26
Fell Yeah. It's a split level set as well.
32:31
Like, I know we're sort of focusing on the production value
32:34
of this thing, but that's because you can't always do that
32:37
with classic Doctor Who's. No, not always.
32:40
There's been a there's a lot of work that's gone into these sets
32:43
to make them look authentic. I mean, you could believe that
32:49
they're on an old C4 with the the dim light, the light hanging
32:53
from the ceiling. That's one of the things I like.
32:55
You don't get that an awful lot. But the hand, we've seen the
32:57
head, we've seen the hand coming out over the boat now.
33:01
And all the bits hanging up. A lot of people said, like, you
33:04
know, that was sort of the Douglas Canfield specialty of
33:07
showing parts of the Monster, but well, I suppose they were
33:10
doing it right back as far as the Daleks, though, weren't.
33:13
They Oh yeah, it's it's a classic.
33:14
I mean, it's, you know, Doctor Who didn't exactly pioneer the
33:16
technique of hiding the monster until a certain point.
33:22
But what's really nice about this as well, it's just how sort
33:25
of measured the pace is. It's not going too fast, but
33:28
there's enough going on to keep you interested.
33:31
Yeah. Some of the longer stories in
33:33
particular suffer from momentum issues.
33:37
Either episode one will be incredibly dull because it
33:39
doesn't want to get too far, or episode one will race along and
33:42
then the plot will have to slow right down to extend it through
33:46
six episodes. I think this actually holds up
33:49
six episodes really nicely. There's only one point in this
33:51
where I feel like they're viable time.
33:54
Is again. And that's quite well lit.
33:58
So you can see the mask, but it's a good mask.
34:01
Sorry, Uncle Brian. It's a good mask.
34:03
And yeah, sorry, the monster where the eyes don't.
34:05
There are plenty of things. There are plenty of things in
34:08
the sea With eyes That do not move.
34:10
Oh. That's very true.
34:12
Yeah, so. There's no reason why the Sea
34:14
Devil shouldn't have static. Based on a turtle head, isn't.
34:16
It it is, yeah. Oh.
34:21
That that's quite great, isn't it?
34:22
The camera's literally fixed on his dead face as they come
34:25
towards him. Yeah, I don't envy him that,
34:28
having to be dead with his eyes open thing, though I've I've
34:33
done that on stage a couple of times.
34:36
It's not easy to be dead on stage, for one thing, because of
34:39
course everyone goes, oh, you're still breathing.
34:40
Of course I'm still breathing. I'm not actually dead.
34:43
But I had to die in a school production of Macbeth, and the
34:47
way the script had been written was I would die on stage, and
34:50
then at the end of the battle, another character would come in
34:53
and mourn my death and close my eyes.
34:55
That was explicitly written into the thing.
34:57
So I had to lie there, honestly, with my eyes wide open in death.
35:01
How long for? Not for too long, but I could
35:05
see into the wings where all my wonderfully supportive friends
35:08
who were in the play with me were going oi wagger I'm
35:13
sticking their fingers, they were.
35:14
Trying to make you corpse. Exactly.
35:16
They were trying to make me corpse while I was being a
35:18
corpse. Did you corpse as a corpse?
35:21
I did not. No.
35:22
Well done. I did not.
35:23
I was. Professional to the last.
35:26
I did give them a piece of my mind afterwards.
35:32
Now that cliffhanger, there was a cheat.
35:35
That cliffhanger there I never really worked for me.
35:38
What? What did you give that out of
35:40
telling your threads? Do you recall?
35:41
I can't remember and it's too far back for me to go.
35:43
Well, let's rate them as we go now.
35:45
But I rated that one fairly low because I think it's fairly
35:48
obvious that it's Declan Mulholland shuffling through.
35:50
Even though they put it in the shadow, it's clearly not the
35:53
monster that we saw earlier, so I think it's pretty obvious that
35:57
it's just the other chap shuffling around.
35:59
It's a shame because I feel like the suspense has built well in
36:02
those last sort of 5 minutes, so it could have just been the sea
36:06
devil. It could have been, yeah, but I
36:08
think it's kind of, well, we need a cliffhanger, so let's
36:10
just put this in and have them a bit uncertain about this
36:12
shuffling character for a bit. But what what I think this
36:15
episode has done extremely well is it has built up a mystery.
36:19
It's gone to the base and given us some details of how many
36:23
ships this has affected. So we've had some context.
36:26
We've then gone to one of these locations where the, you know,
36:31
the, the Sea Devils are attacking.
36:32
So it's all actually happening. Thrown the Doctor in the
36:34
situation. He's now in a situation of
36:36
peril. Oh, that's a good episode.
36:38
One suspense, mystery, a little bit of drama, and some comedy as
36:41
well. And we know the masters involved
36:43
already. Yeah, I want some charming
36:45
scenes for the Master as well, actually.
36:47
It's a great episode. One, I think it's a really good
36:50
episode One. Yeah, it is.
36:51
Do you think we should go watch? Episode two.
36:53
I think we should watch Episode 2.
36:54
It's so lovely doing this live review, you know, It's
36:56
marvelous. Great fun.
36:57
I'll come put the kettle on quick.
36:59
What a good idea.