Latest / Between the Headlines: Columbus / A Fired Lobbyist & a $47K Speaker System PLUS We Talk Deer and Conservation With Brent Lochala

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A Fired Lobbyist & a $47K Speaker System PLUS We Talk Deer and Conservation With Brent Lochala · Between the Headlines: Columbus

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_00: Keep us on.
• 0:02
  SPEAKER_03: Today we are pleased to have in the studio Mr.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_03: Brent Lakala, who is the host of The Woodman Perspective, which is a really great podcast.
• 0:12
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to the studio today, sir.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you for having me.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: I'm I'm glad to be here.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's interesting, it's interesting to be a guest.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 0:19
  SPEAKER_03: This is a different side of the table.
• 0:21
  SPEAKER_03: You you also are a realtor mostly with land sales and have worked with the county for 25 years, as I understand.
• 0:29
  SPEAKER_01: I work with Four County Electric for 26 years and I'm also a licensed realtor here at Hometown and uh do a podcast, got a commercial drone pilot license.
• 0:37
  SPEAKER_01: I do drone work, so I I stay busy.
• 0:40
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I've seen some of that stuff, like uh for commercials and and also for for hunting purposes, looking at land and stuff.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I do uh I do like progression uh monitoring on construction type stuff on land improvement and uh do thermal work with some with some really smart guys and researchers and just just a lot of avenues to use the drone.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, now have you ever used the drone to figure out where you what stand you're gonna go to the next morning?
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_01: No, I have not, but I'll tell you this if you have that technology, you have to force yourself not to use it right for that okay.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: You have to make a conscious choice because it's it's kind of like having a cheat code if you want if someone wanted to use it that way.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 1:25
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, I want to start there.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, it's it's hunting season, and I know that uh everybody's either getting out into the woods or or uh getting ready to go hunt the rut or or whatever uh here in this area.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_02: Uh I've been wanting to ask this, and and my my my father listens to this podcast, and he's gonna be upset with me asking the question.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_02: When I was uh I'm from Arkansas, and that's where I do my hunting on family land over there.
• 1:58
  SPEAKER_02: Um just went this past weekend for for gun season, the opening of it.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_02: But when I was little, it was um, you know, wear your camo, put on your orange, sit still, don't make any noise, and the deer and and and you'll kill something.
• 2:16
  SPEAKER_01: The same way I was raised on it.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 2:18
  SPEAKER_02: I'm with you so far.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Then when I got up 13, 14, it became spray this on you, and then go to the stand and be still and quiet, and then the deer w won't detect you as well.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: As this is advanced, I see so many of these better mouse traps.
• 2:37
  SPEAKER_02: I'll just tell you, my my dad has bought into this ozonix business.
• 2:42
  SPEAKER_02: So there's this bag that uh you put your clothes in for 20 minutes and it pumps it full of ozone, and then you take this little contraption with you to your deer stand, put it over your head, and it pumps ozone over your head.
• 2:56
  SPEAKER_02: Look, I have had deer in close quarters to me that didn't know I was in the world when I was using that stuff and when I wasn't using that stuff.
• 3:04
  SPEAKER_02: And I'll look at all these commercials and I see all of this stuff, and sometimes I see the stuff that he buys and buys into.
• 3:11
  SPEAKER_02: And you can spend a lot of money deer hunting on the next better mouse trap.
• 3:16
  SPEAKER_02: I I I just wanna I just want to ask a third party, what is actually legitimate and and what are you what what should you skip?
• 3:25
  SPEAKER_01: Well, there's a lot, there's a lot to unpack there.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: First off, I would never argue with your dad.
• 3:32
  unknown: Okay.
• 3:34
  SPEAKER_01: I do what he tells me to do.
• 3:35
  SPEAKER_01: There you go.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: Uh ozonic specifically is one of those products that's the science says it works.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: There's something to it.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: Pardon me.
• 3:46
  SPEAKER_01: Is that deer piss?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: What is that?
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_01: No, no.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_02: No, is is pumping ozone into your clothes and pumping it into your deer stand so the deer don't detect your scent when they come back.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it's actually a a motorized unit, for lack of a better term, that a hunter can take with them and hang it in the tree above them, and it produces ozone which covers your scent.
• 4:07
  SPEAKER_01: So, so for me, for context, you can't outsmart a deer's nose.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:14
  SPEAKER_01: So, and we'll we'll start out with this part talking specific about deer.
• 4:17
  SPEAKER_01: But a white tail's deer, a white-tailed deer's nose and sense of smell, that's that's like your eyesight.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like that's how much they depend on that.
• 4:26
  SPEAKER_01: And you're not gonna outsmart it.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: You try to situate yourself where the wind is in your favor, but if the wind's in your favor, then the deer's probably less likely to come because it's he's at a disadvantage.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: The ozone kind of gives you that little extra if the wind gets marginal.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: So it's it's a little insurance.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 4:47
  SPEAKER_01: Uh there are a lot of gimmicks in hunting, just like anything else.
• 4:51
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and sort of to your point, I was raised, go back where you started, hunting the exact same way, and we just figured out probably within 10 miles from where you were.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_01: Same little spot in Arkansas, uh, same little spot in southeast Arkansas.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_01: So I think what you described is two things.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_01: Part of it is just the age you were, and then as you grow up, as we get older, we get into more, we get more toys for whatever our hobby is.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:21
  SPEAKER_01: And we advance that way.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: But also that time, this just there is a market for it.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_01: There's innovation, technology advances, and and you see that in hunting.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: That it's it's amazing how much batteries are involved in hunting now.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_01: Batteries, technology, you know, we just talked about drones.
• 5:37
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so part of it is just advances in technology, and that gets over into every industry.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_02: But I mean, also with those advances in technology, those are those other things that people sell you because they know you'll buy them.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_01: And there's a lot of the uh the old outdoor TV programming that was basically a 30-minute infomercial.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_01: There's always the next new product.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there was a uh there was like a turkey scent attraction.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: That was a that was a real good one.
• 6:06
  SPEAKER_01: There was like a I think it was a turkey whistle.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a dog whistle that nobody could hear, but they they sold some.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, there there are some gimmicks.
• 6:17
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh, have you been out this year yet um for deer?
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've bow hunt so bow season in Mississippi opened October 1st.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_01: And uh I I did I did some bow hunting, I found, and we'll go back to some of those the technology advances through through sailor, you know, trail cameras.
• 6:35
  SPEAKER_01: Uh I found some deer and and I was like everybody sort of patterned my hunting around what my cameras are telling me, so I don't have to go as often, but uh no, I haven't I haven't taken a deer yet this year.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 6:47
  SPEAKER_03: Have you run into any uh chronic wasting disease like deer staggering around, that kind of thing?
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: No, no, so there's no reported cases of CWD in our area, and and that's something that when we talk about hunters and hunting, you want to get divisive real quick.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh it it's very similar to COVID.
• 7:08
  SPEAKER_01: You'll bring up COVID in a crowded room, and you'll get the true believers, you'll get the people that think it's a myth, you'll get the people that think it's all a money grab or something.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Let's not even talk about it.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_01: CWD is the same way.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 7:20
  SPEAKER_01: Uh CWD has been in sort of isolated areas of the state.
• 7:24
  SPEAKER_01: The state has been very responsive when there is a positive case.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Uh that they have a uh William McKinley is one, he's he's a dear program coordinator with MDWFP, friend of ours.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: We've done some things with him over the years.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_01: Uh they have been very proactive.
• 7:44
  SPEAKER_01: And so whenever there is a positive case, there's a protocol already in place.
• 7:49
  SPEAKER_01: They, you know, they shut down baiting, they there's a lot of regs that go into place uh immediately, a certain sort of area.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: And so uh we haven't had any here.
• 8:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's been cases in the Delta, there's been some cases in extreme North Mississippi, and I think those deer came out of a research pen in Tennessee.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: I got you.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_03: So around here, they either is either there's no cases for sure, or they didn't report the cases, or they ate the deer anyway, or like like I'm just a layman talking about this stuff.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: So odds are if it was here we would know.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: Uh now all of those things you just described could have happened, but odds are the way I understand that it spreads, and as you know, as many people are there's there's really no spot over here that's probably not getting hunted, and with social media and cameras being what they are, yeah, I think it would have come out.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_01: Um we do get occasional cases of EHD or blue tongue, it's a hemorrhagic disease that deer get in uh particularly dry summers.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's it's uh it's a midge or a or a flower bite like from these water holes.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: Like you think about standing water and some of these sloughs, when they go down, they'll be in the leaf litter where that water is receded.
• 9:08
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a parasite, right?
• 9:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they'll pick it up and it will really go through the deer herd because you in the summer your your bucks are in these bachelor groups.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_01: So usually it gets all of them because they're at the same water hole.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_01: So EHD, it it can go through a herd.
• 9:25
  SPEAKER_01: You'll get that occasionally, and uh you'll find those deer, you know, some people find those deer dead, and you hear about CWD and zombie deer.
• 9:33
  SPEAKER_03: So that's what people think of.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_03: But and I hear a lot on Super Talk Radio that Mississippi has too many deer.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_03: Do you believe that?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: In places, uh there are places, so when you hear that number come from the state, that's that's just that.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's a number for the state.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: And and we'll probably get into this later, but Mississippi is a very diverse state.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_01: So if you think about the Delta, the coast, the hills region up here where we are, yeah, there's a lot of deer.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_01: But there's a lot more deer in uh in Madison County than in some of the other counties.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_01: So they're not evenly distributed.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_01: Uh a lot of those numbers may come from the from the insurance lobby.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I because they cost they cost.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_03: I almost harvested one with my car the other day.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so yeah, I think we have a very healthy deer population.
• 10:29
  SPEAKER_01: The the state, I mentioned the MDWFMP, that's Mississippi Department of Wildlife, Fisheries, and Parks.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_01: Last year, I think they added a deer to the bag limit, maybe, or they encouraged hunters to take their limit.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe that's what it is.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_01: I don't want to misspeak there, but I think they were encouraging hunters to take their harvest their limit of deer because of that, because we do have uh a healthy population of deer.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_02: And and with that healthy population of deer, are you seeing um uh are you seeing a shortage of are we seeing a shortage of hunters?
• 11:02
  SPEAKER_02: We see less people going into the woods now, especially younger fighting.
• 11:07
  SPEAKER_01: I don't I don't think so.
• 11:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'll caveat that.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the state of Mississippi around 300,000 license sales a year.
• 11:15
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a state of three million, that's a lot.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we've got a lot of hunters.
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_01: Uh hunting here is sort of like religion or politics.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: It's something that people are real particular about and emotional about, I guess, somewhat.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: They come up doing it, and usually they learn it from a mentor.
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_01: There's a, and this is part of the reason that we we discussed when we started our podcast, is that there's sort of a newer generation of hunters.
• 11:41
  SPEAKER_01: So you think about people are more mindful about where they get their food.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_01: And so venison is an excellent lean protein, no hormones, you know, no, you know, there's a lot of upside to venison.
• 11:53
  SPEAKER_01: And a lot of people are getting into hunting for that reason.
• 11:57
  SPEAKER_02: It's a good way to fill your freezer.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_01: And and so there's also a lot of professionals, and I'll say maybe middle-aged, younger than me.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_01: I'm in my late 40s.
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a lot of mid-20s and early 30s professionals that have done really well, and they're getting into hunting and investing in recreational land.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: And so they're getting into it.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: So the the you see a lot of hunters now that don't necessarily fit the stereotype for what you might think a hunter would be.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And so I don't know if there's less, but it's definitely a uh it's different.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: The hunter's different, I think, you know, the stereotypical what you might think of.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you mentioned baiting a while ago, and uh yeah, that's another uh controversial topic.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_02: Um what do you think about it?
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_02: Do you do it?
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: Do you think it's a a heresy?
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: I tell you what, the hardware store I want.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: How about that?
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: That's what most people answer that.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: There's a lot of corn for sale out there.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so everywhere you go, you can buy corn.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_03: And it's not just corn, they feed them strawberries and blueberries.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, they call it deer corn.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: And look, the best one's the one with the biggest deer on the bag, right?
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_01: That's the one you need to buy.
• 13:12
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and along those lines, you know, one of my pet peeves is seeing empty corn sacks on the side of the road.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: I'll pick them up like by the end of deer season, I'll have like this wad of them.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_01: So that that annoys me.
• 13:23
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 13:24
  SPEAKER_01: Uh baiting, baiting I don't like, and I'll make a distinction between baiting and supplemental feeding.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: And and for for my purposes, I'm gonna say so corn versus a food plot.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh no, no, let's say more specific than that.
• 13:42
  SPEAKER_01: Baiting, I would say, is bringing that animal to the gun, to an ambush spot.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_01: Where supplemental feeding, I may be feeding just for that reason, just to supplemental feed, or I have cameras for inventory or just to know what I've got.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: So when I s when I think baiting, I think I'm drawing that animal to this to spot to get shot.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: So, and I don't do a lot of that.
• 14:05
  SPEAKER_01: But I do supplemental feed, I do run a lot of cameras, and that helps having some feed.
• 14:11
  SPEAKER_01: There are uh and I I grew up in an era where it's illegal.
• 14:15
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like people had to be sneaky.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_01: You couldn't, you couldn't just go buy a pallet of corn at the co-op.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: So it's still I mean the stigma's gone somewhat.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_01: You know, we joke uh a buddy and and one of our guys that started the podcast with us, Mitt Wardlaw.
• 14:33
  SPEAKER_01: Mitt made a comment, you know, there's still a stigma around it because if you kill a deer with your favorite mossy oak camo, you know, you've got that in the shirt with the picture.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: Or if you've got like your your your favorite climbing stand, it's in the picture.
• 14:46
  unknown: Right.
• 14:46
  SPEAKER_01: But no one ever poses with a corn sack.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_01: So there's still a stigma about there's still a stigma.
• 14:54
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and most people try to drag them out of the corn on the ground before they take the Facebook picture.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: But but it is real, it's legal now.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_01: With some, there are some it's not just you can't just pour it out on the ground.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_01: It's got to come from either a spin feeder or being a covered feeder.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_01: And that goes back to animal health.
• 15:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um turkeys can get in.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_01: If your corn gets wet, it can get aflatoxins.
• 15:15
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, it can do a lot of harm.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_01: So you gotta keep it dry and you can't just pile it up on the ground.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_02: Well, well, do you see an ethical difference between the corn feeding and you know where your your food plots are, you know, you're you're you're planting your property to be attractive to deer, but it's a natural it's oats growing, it's turnips growing, it's things like that.
• 15:38
  SPEAKER_01: I I do.
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh and and anytime the baiting conversation comes up, someone makes that point.
• 15:45
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and there's no better or worse arena for that in social media.
• 15:50
  SPEAKER_01: Facebook, sure, if it's a food plot, you did place it there, even though you planted it and you grew it.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: It's different than uh it's different than baiting because you it does go back to you made the point that supplemental feeding feels more like a description of a food plot.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_01: And food plots are supplemental to what's out there in in nature and and native, but I do see a difference between because those the deer can utilize that.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_01: It's less like baiting.
• 16:20
  SPEAKER_01: And it's often you see it in someone's um sort of their management plan.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: Because most people that are planting food, well, maybe not most, a lot of people that are planting these fall food plots are also planting summer food plots.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Those are more for nutritional purposes for the animals.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_01: Where the fall food plots, we don't have terribly hard winters here, but in other parts of the country, that fall food plot gives them the carbs and the things they need in the winter after the acorns are gone.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: So it it does serve a nutritional purpose.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: Corn does not.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: They they like it though.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, they do like it.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: They do like it.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's it's right outside the bedroom window.
• 17:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's right.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_02: In range.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_02: Shifting to land management, I know that uh I mean you sell a lot of land in this area.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: Um what is the what's the best what's the most prevalent advice you give people buying property that are that are starting to manage that land after they take ownership of it?
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: And also what's the uh biggest mistake you see with uh especially with new property owners uh buying that property and how they're how they start managing that land?
• 17:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I think a lot of uh I think a lot of new in terms of mistakes, maybe it's not mistake, maybe it's sort of part of the learning process, is I think a lot of new landowners don't have a realistic expectation about the time timeline and and time frame of doing these improvements.
• 17:57
  SPEAKER_01: And also most most land buyers have this idea, and and and if you think about that ideal hunting land, for most of us that looks like big oak trees and woods and and and very pretty, maybe like a park.
• 18:16
  SPEAKER_01: You know, big oak trees, you've got acorns, and you've got maybe some open fields and ponds.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot of that out there for sale.
• 18:25
  SPEAKER_01: And so what you see, I guess you don't overlook something that, you know, this is a process.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_01: So a lot of our landscape is is in production pines, and and particularly the land that comes up for sale that gets on the market, and a step further land that like a first-time landowner or just someone working a job in nine to five could afford.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's gonna be usually in some type of pine rotation or has been harvested.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_01: And that's not appealing to look at.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_03: No, your last episode was actually about that, and I was listening, and and it was quite interesting because it was a very nuanced conversation.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_03: You had, I believe it was a a lumberjack.
• 19:11
  SPEAKER_03: Is it okay to call him that?
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, that's I love that you called him that.
• 19:14
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, mascot of my high school, David.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_03: There you go.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_03: And um, you know, like my heart was hurting because I'm on the side of it.
• 19:23
  SPEAKER_03: I go out there and it does.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_03: It looks like a bomb went off.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_03: I call it a toothpick salad when I see it.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and I just hate it.
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_03: But yet the perspective of the show was kind of like, yeah, it doesn't look good, but it creates potential for the right kind of growth and for good things to happen over time.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and so another one of those misconceptions, particularly with land management and wildlife, and this is something that the world of podcasts and social media has brought, it's created a platform where the really smart people, the researchers, can get information to us.
• 20:00
  SPEAKER_01: I don't y'all are smarter than me, but to I I joke that you know they can dumb it down where it's consumable.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's several uh got good friends of ours that do land consulting, wildlife investments, uh even the MSU Deer Lab, things like that, mossy oak gamekeepers.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: We're learning through this research that what the practices we've had, maybe mowing and manicuring these hunting land, like that's less than ideal for wildlife.
• 20:30
  SPEAKER_01: So we're kind of changing what's attractive on that landscape.
• 20:34
  SPEAKER_01: What may not look aesthetically pleasing, you grow up and it looks grown up or maybe unkempt from May through August.
• 20:41
  SPEAKER_01: That is ideal for your wildlife, particularly turkeys, quail, deer, you know, for fawn and and what stuff.
• 20:48
  SPEAKER_01: They're high the thick stuff.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 20:50
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and so that's the thought is I'm providing them cover.
• 20:54
  SPEAKER_01: But what I've learned recently is it's not just like those native plants are really high in protein.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_01: Like there's a lot of food there.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_01: And the same goes while the episode, that's one of the points we're making about the cutover.
• 21:07
  SPEAKER_01: While it doesn't look ideal, the price point is better.
• 21:11
  SPEAKER_01: It's at a place where you can manipulate it.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: And by manipulate, I mean you can go in and create your roads, you go ahead and create your openings or your food plots.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_02: Make it what you want.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_01: And then it's gonna grow up around it instead of you going into an existing timber stand and having, you know, for lack of a better term, I guess the overburden, the trees, all the things you've got to remove to create that.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_01: It's already there when it cut over.
• 21:33
  SPEAKER_03: Some of those white oak trees are 200 years old.
• 21:37
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, oof.
• 21:39
  SPEAKER_03: Hurts my heart thinking about them things going over.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it and and me too.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_01: I love white oaks, swamp chestnut oaks, I love to see them.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_01: They also have a lifespan.
• 21:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean from a so strictly from a wildlife standpoint, if I get past what I like to look at, and and and I've I've hunted turkeys and I love the opportunity to sit in a stand of oak trees and and call to turkeys or or hunt deer.
• 22:07
  SPEAKER_01: But oak trees from a wildlife, the white oaks for a deer are only providing food about 45 days out of the whole year.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_01: So if that's all they had, what are they gonna do the rest of the, you know?
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_01: What if what if what if your wife is not gonna let you eat a month and a half out of the year?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: You gotta figure something out.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_02: Well, uh but uh you've also got the uh as a if if you're a land buyer, you've also got that uh that return on investment.
• 22:38
  SPEAKER_02: The wood is what where that's at.
• 22:41
  SPEAKER_02: And if if it's cutovers, clear cut or whatever, then you're extending the amount of that time to where that landowner can get his or her possible investment.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_01: So return on yeah, it m maybe.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: So so for for for most of my life, if I look back for what I can remember, the 80s, 90s, early 2000s, being around a lot of people that buy and sell land.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_01: It was always sort of all right, the land value is this, and we're basing it on like so there's pines, I can go in there and thin, I can make this much per acre or per ton thinning.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: So that's some of my money back.
• 23:17
  SPEAKER_01: And then after so many years, we can clear cut it.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: The land is marketable from a marketable timber standpoint, that justifies the price of the land, so let's buy it.
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_01: Well, we're in we're in sort of a stale, uh uh, there's a glut of pine timber on the market.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Pine timber values are at record lows.
• 23:41
  SPEAKER_01: But the recreational value of the land is what's driving these prices.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_01: So, so now you've got so that that model I just said where you're establishing the value that it that it's worth it.
• 23:54
  SPEAKER_01: Now you've got professionals, you've got a long a young attorney or a doctor or a salesman in town, he's gonna go buy the land because it's got deer and turkeys.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_01: I think COVID accelerated that.
• 24:06
  SPEAKER_01: I think we're already going that way.
• 24:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like the opportunity to go buy recreational land, regardless of the timber value.
• 24:13
  SPEAKER_01: Because all those things I just said, that management and it sometimes goes against maybe the best practices if you were managing strictly for timber value.
• 24:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like you're gonna thin it down more than you would for timber, but you open the canopy, so now grass grows between those pine trees, and turkeys have somewhere to nest.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_01: Where if you were managing strictly for pine production, you had more trees, the canopies closed, there's nothing, it's a it's a biological wasteland up under there.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_01: You you'd probably stood in pines like that, you can see forever.
• 24:48
  SPEAKER_01: There's nothing there for an animal to hide in or eat.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it's there's a term for it.
• 24:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a a monoculture speciatic.
• 24:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a monoculture stand.
• 24:58
  SPEAKER_01: So and monoculture stand of pines, there's a lot of that out there.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_01: But if you take it and you thin it down more than you would, like I said, for strictly for pine production, then you've opened the canopy the key is open the canopy.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's it's someone dumbed it down for me really well.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_02: If you can if the sun can reach it, something will grow.
• 25:17
  SPEAKER_01: Sun makes deer.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: Sun makes turkeys.
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_01: You just got to get it on the ground because it makes plants and then there's a process there, and that's that is so how do you feel about these programs that'll pay you not to cut trees?
• 25:30
  SPEAKER_02: Uh C C RP?
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so so uh CSP, CRP, conservation stewardship programs.
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of cost-sharing programs that are really, really good.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_01: So we mentioned those new landowners and people that are buying land and thinking about return on investment.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm trying to justify this land purchase or these practices because it costs money to move a piece of equipment in to do these things.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_01: The cost share programs help offset that.
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, and even fire.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: So fire is one of the things that you can manage that landscape with.
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_01: If you think about it, a hundred years ago, two hundred years ago, there were there was fire naturally occurring at pretty significant intervals.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and they do it like out at the National Wildlife Refuge in Noxabee, they'll burn that thing every so often so the right stuff will come back up.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: And so that used to happen in nature.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: Lightning strikes, like a lot of this area used to be grass and prairie, and it was kept that way through fire.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: So once you get once you get more populated and you got, you know, fire in this cool, we had this whole Smokey the Bear campaign.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_04: Mm-hmm.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_01: May not have been a great idea.
• 26:43
  SPEAKER_01: Fire does have a place.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_01: Uh so a great example of that is if you think about out in the prairie or places where you see a lot of cedar.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_01: So that cedar never would have been there with fire.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: So cedars growing in the higher areas where that would have been grass.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_01: Fire would have kept the cedar knocked out.
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_03: And just to be clear, we're not advocating for taking up cigarette smoking and flicking the butts out there.
• 27:08
  SPEAKER_01: However, not reckless, but you're seeing a lot more.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mentioned earlier about the podcast platforms getting a lot of good management information out to the general public.
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_01: And fire is something you're seeing more landowners do because you still you have to be careful.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: You put in your fire breaks, but it's something that you can do without a huge you don't need a lot of big equipment.
• 27:34
  SPEAKER_01: You don't need you know it doesn't cost a lot of money.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 27:36
  SPEAKER_01: And it's very effective.
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_03: Anything else you'd like to add?
• 27:42
  unknown: A couple things.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_00: Can I let me make a couple of points?
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'd like to get a a segment that we can put at the beginning to help uh kind of set the scene.
• 27:51
  SPEAKER_00: So if y'all would go back and just ask him about the podcast, the origins of the podcast, how it got started, what they covered.
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think having that at the front end will help set the stage for the rest of the podcast.
• 28:04
  SPEAKER_00: And then if there are any, you know, like we talked about up front, if there are any strictly local Columbus Lowndes County specific subjects we can hit on.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I don't know if it do you want to does anything come to mind immediately?
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_00: Kind of areas that we can explore, and then maybe that'll help prompt these guys to uh ask the right question.
• 28:25
  SPEAKER_01: Just maybe some of the things I talked about, sort of the Lowons County does have a lot of biodiversity, you know, with the river here in the river system, yeah, things like that.
• 28:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: I like that.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: All right.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: So what yeah, we'll we'll go back to the places.
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: I was gonna plug it at the end, but let's okay.
• 28:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, Brent, how did you get dragged into the slimy world of podcasting?
• 28:49
  SPEAKER_01: Well, so I I've fought it, I fought it kicking and screaming for a little while.
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: So, so I've got two good friends of mine, and and most most of y'all will know know one of them around Columbus specifically, Chris Herring.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_01: Uh, Chris has been in the timber industry and and land for a long time.
• 29:08
  SPEAKER_01: He owns a deer processing plant out west of town.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_01: Uh Chris and I are friends, and then Mitt Wardlaw.
• 29:14
  SPEAKER_01: May not know Mitt in Columbus.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Mitt lives in Starville, but Mitt is a gr an agronomist, uh has a crop consulting business, uh a land management business.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_01: Mitt's one of the smartest people that you've never met.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: Um and so Mitt and Chris and I, we hunt, and I think all this kind of came about in a group text after Mitt had been on an episode of the Gamekeeper podcast.
• 29:38
  SPEAKER_01: Chris had been on one, and I went on one to tell turkey stories.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: And so we got to talking about it.
• 29:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I knew that between the three of us, they were very smart, successful, owned, and managed a lot of land.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_01: That I was gonna end up being the tech guy.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: They just had to make it happen.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: So I did resist for a while, but we we went at this.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: This thing as you know, the Woodsman Perspective podcast.
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_01: And so we're bringing three different perspectives really to issues around land and habitat.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: I hunt a lot of small tracks, public land, a travel and hunt a good bit.
• 30:16
  SPEAKER_01: They manage, and both of them sort of have their own area.
• 30:19
  SPEAKER_01: Like I said, Mitson Agronomist, great on crop science.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: Chris is a timberman and uh lumberjack.
• 30:28
  SPEAKER_01: But like, you know, and they had both Chris, Chris is as good as anywhere about buying, improving, and selling properties and just knowing how to set them up for hunting.
• 30:37
  SPEAKER_01: So that's what kind of led to us forming the podcast.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_01: Pretty soon when we got into it, we we were looking at my my question for myself was what do you really have to offer?
• 30:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I would imagine there's a lot of subject matter there, just thinking about the many, many different types of animals and fish and um just the biodiversity within our state.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, there's a lot of things to talk about.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_01: Um there's no shortage of things, and it's particularly in this where we are.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_01: You mentioned biodiversity.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_01: So we're we all we all hunt and live in this area, and and Lowness County is is as special as there is because if you if you just think about, we've all traveled to different areas.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, a lot of the state of Mississippi, if you get in in one area, it all looks the same.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_01: Well, if you get out, drive around Columbus and Lowell's County, we've got we've got some of the most beautiful prairie in the country.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: You've got the Tom Bigbee River and this river bottom system, there's bottomland hardwoods that are, you know, there's there's oak trees here as big as they grow.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: We've got a lot of ag.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: So you've got those three things are some of the key elements, you know, with wildlife.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_01: We've got, you know, we've got some of my friends won't want me saying this.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: We have really good turkey numbers, you know, and we've got big deer, Lowndes County and south towards Knoxby, but get in that prairie area.
• 31:58
  SPEAKER_01: Lownds County, some of the biggest deer in the state have come from right here.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: I would argue when you get into talking about hunting, the delta comes up a lot.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 32:07
  SPEAKER_01: People talk about the big, big deer in the delta.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And that's true, but from a biodiversity standpoint, so much of the delta, like it's either real good, but you've got a lot of acres that don't produce anything from a wildlife standpoint.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_01: You know, here you've got the diversity of things that wildlife thrives on, and it's uh it's a good place to be if you're into hunting, boating, fishing.
• 32:29
  SPEAKER_03: Your show is called The Woodsman Perspective, and it it's uh focused on habitat and wildlife podcast.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_03: I know it's on Apple.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_03: Where else can we get it?
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_01: Uh everywhere you would get a podcast.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_01: Spotify, we we publish through Podbeans, a Podbean, Google Play, uh Apple.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_01: Wherever you listen, we're there.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you, Brent.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Good.
• 32:51
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for coming by.
• 32:52
  SPEAKER_01: A face with the voice.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: I appreciate it.
• 32:54
  SPEAKER_01: And look, I'm a fan of you guys too.
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_01: I listen and y'all uh y'all do a good job.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_02: I'd much rather like each other a lot better than maybe it comes across sometimes.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_01: Well, you need a little bit of that.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: You need a little bit of that constructive, you know, to keep people listening.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: That's right.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: We also need bored people out there, so I'm glad that you can people sitting behind a steering wheel a lot.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, we do, don't we?
• 33:16
  SPEAKER_03: Thanks for coming on.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Nice.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Can talk about it maybe.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_03: This week on between the headlines, as we open up hunting season, we have a special guest today, Mr.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_03: Brent Lakala, who is the host of the Woodman Perspective Podcast.
• 33:34
  SPEAKER_03: But before that, gone are the days that you can just walk in and approach the city council and willy-nilly ask for funds.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_03: And it is a new day for lobbying on behalf of the City of Columbus as the effort to nix its current contract is to nix its current contract led by Mr.
• 33:57
  SPEAKER_03: Jason Spears, becomes official.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_03: They are done but first.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:04
  SPEAKER_03: So um the order we proposed is um Let's do nonprofits first.
• 34:09
  SPEAKER_02: Nonprofits.
• 34:10
  SPEAKER_02: And then just a very brief at the end of uh at the end of that, we'll slide into uh more of an update 30-kind of thing on lobbyist is gone.
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is kind of how that happened.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 34:24
  SPEAKER_03: So our primary focus being on that first subject matter.
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, let me get this opened up here.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: Hi, Diddley Ho Neighborinos, and welcome to Catfish Alley Studios, where it is 47 days and counting until the completion of the Columbus Amphitheater pursuant to Mayor Stephen Jones's promise.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_03: You are listening to Between the Headlines with Master Marksman and managing editor of the commercial dispatch, Mr.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_03: Zach Plair.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: My name's David Chisholm.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_03: Top headline today is uh something I didn't really expect to be talking about, but I think it's a good thing to talk about because I do.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_03: I do we've we've had a problem with these people just um these very well-meaning people, but they they come to the city and they ask for money.
• 35:15
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so so some context here.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_02: Um really in the last few years and and it and it really started coming to a head with the first with last council.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_02: Um somebody has an event.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_02: Uh somebody has started an organization and is wanting to do some sort of kickoff or do some sort of uh some sort of endeavor.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_02: It's a nonprofit.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: A big deal.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_02: And it's not in the budget.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_02: So they get on Citizen Input, they walk up to that podium, and they say, We want as much as you'll give us up to X amount of money.
• 36:02
  SPEAKER_02: And and and I've heard request as high as$10,000.
• 36:06
  SPEAKER_02: Uh, this is the same way, by the way, that the um the parade for Columbus Municipal School District, uh, they got that money for their parade when they got up to a B with their accountability score.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_03: It just happened.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_02: Same kind of thing.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: This is exactly how it happened.
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so essentially last year there were two methods to do this.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the one that was most used was a social and community service program.
• 36:38
  SPEAKER_02: They would go up there and they'd say, We need$2,000.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_02: And then Jeff Turnage would say, Okay, well, if you're gonna fund them through this mechanism, then y'all also have to show that y'all have$2,000 that y'all are putting into it, too.
• 36:53
  SPEAKER_02: So it was we'll match the funds that you provide up to a certain amount.
• 36:59
  SPEAKER_02: And they would just give that money away out of this fund that they kind of had out to the side for these requests.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, believe it or not, it was a um interesting coalition of people led by uh Joseph Mickens and Rusty Green uh last year that were like, we've got to quit doing this.
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:22
  SPEAKER_03: Um well Jim Brigham was right.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_03: He was talking about how when they come in and they do this, it makes the city council look bad.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, right.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_02: More on that in a minute, though, because I don't think Jim's hands are entirely clean in this situation.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_02: So what they did then is they this year's budget did not have that fund for social and community service.
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: They budgeted, they gave nearly a million dollars to nonprofits just as outside contributions.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_02: This is everything from the library to United Way to this to that.
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: It was over$900,000 money.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_02: Right, of public money to these nonprofits.
• 38:07
  SPEAKER_02: Um and they didn't have that social and community service provide a match, come up and provide a match, and then we'll give you more.
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: They they kind of moved away from that.
• 38:20
  SPEAKER_02: But here comes Donnell Briggs with uh uh saving the youth.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_02: Who doesn't want to save the youth?
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_02: Right, right, right.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_02: And he's not a uh, you know, either Donnell's a good guy, that's a good program.
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: And they it's this isn't his fault because not his job to know city policy, frankly, and he's been able to do this before.
• 38:47
  SPEAKER_02: So he comes up and he asks, Hey, can I get up to five thousand dollars to sponsor these kids to go to this uh sports tournament out of the area?
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um well then councilmen start going, Well, we don't really do that anymore.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_02: And then someone asks Jim, is there a way to do it?
• 39:10
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, Yes.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_02: We've got twenty thousand dollars in this fund for um advertising uh city resources that you technically could use for that.
• 39:20
  SPEAKER_03: Advertising.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_02: So for that money, all you have to do is make a finding that this event that you're investing in or or sponsoring is essentially you're advertising or sponsoring this event, and that it it will in turn show the city in a favorable light in some way or another.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_02: So then Gary Jefferson says, wait, I didn't know that that was an option.
• 39:48
  SPEAKER_02: What are we even talking about?
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: They table it, then that two weeks later they table it again.
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they come to the work session yesterday, Wednesday, they come to the work session at City Hall and they hash out how they're going to move forward with this.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_02: And without going into too much other background, you can read it in the paper.
• 40:10
  SPEAKER_02: They arrive at, we're gonna set up an application process.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: And this was at this was at Jim Brigham's uh uh recommendation.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_02: We're gonna form an application process where if you are one of these unbudgeted programs, then you don't come to the city council and ask us directly.
• 40:32
  SPEAKER_02: You go get that application, you fill it out, that application will be vetted, and then we'll decide whether we'll give you the money.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_02: That leaves the council with the when the occasional person tries that anyway, hey, I'm started this group, we're having this kickoff, we would love for the city to provide a thousand dollars toward us getting it done.
• 40:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's like, wait, wait, wait.
• 40:54
  SPEAKER_02: We have an application process, go see Jamie.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so that takes the heat off of them because it isn't fair for them, like you were talking about.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_04: No.
• 41:02
  SPEAKER_02: When Jim is saying all you're gonna do is look bad if you say no, and you might be irresponsible if you say yes, it's a no-win situation.
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that application process does provide some relief to the council.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: I still don't think that was the right call, though.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I think they had to do something because I mean the whole thing I uh if if if you've grown up in the in the deep south, you understand what I'm saying here.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: It reminds me of those old Sunday night church business meetings.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 41:38
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, you know, where there's there's either somebody that's gonna come up with a random axe to grind, or uh you you just never knew what to expect.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_03: I remember one there was this old lady, um, and and I asked her before the meeting, I said, how do you think they're gonna vote on the remodel?
• 41:56
  SPEAKER_03: She said, Well, I don't know, but I'm not gonna like it.
• 41:59
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: And so it you have to protect yourself from from things getting out of control, especially in a public forum like this.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: So they had to do something.
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_02: Right.
• 42:12
  SPEAKER_03: Had to do it.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: And look, I'm again, I want to make it abundantly clear that um the people who have come forward are doing this because they've known that it was an option or they've been told that it was an option, and they've got good programs, and there's nothing wrong with you you know what they've been doing, and it's not their job to know council policy by heart.
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: But it it and I I was talking to somebody else again uh about this yesterday.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_02: We were talking about the just the the function of the city uh giving tax money to nonprofits, and there were you know, this person was telling me about I just don't think that should happen.
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a problem with that in itself because you know, tax money is going to the city, um a certain amount of that being reinvested directly in community programs, uh especially through sponsorships or outside contributions to run the library, things like that.
• 43:10
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a problem with that.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: I don't I don't.
• 43:12
  SPEAKER_02: However, put it in the budget.
• 43:16
  SPEAKER_02: And if it's not in the budget, it's not in the damn budget.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_02: And I I don't understand why if you're gonna have a budget process where you have all of these people coming up in August and saying, please give us a contribution of X.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well, if you don't get on the list in August, then you shouldn't be approved for funding until uh you present next August.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_02: Like you know, there shouldn't be a magic fairy dust fund that Jim Brigham can find on the There's not one.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_03: There's not one.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_03: Well there has been.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_03: Well he he he created one ex nahilo advertising?
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_03: Come on, man.
• 43:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah look here's the deal.
• 43:56
  SPEAKER_03: Um, first off, I completely agree that that if you didn't have the forethought to present this to the city way ahead of time to get it in the budget, well, there's that, okay?
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: But in addition to that, you're asking for tax money, you're asking for public funds.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: Correct.
• 44:14
  SPEAKER_03: And so what you're doing needs to be something that pretty much everybody who spends tax money into the city coffers is going to agree with.
• 44:25
  SPEAKER_03: Let's say your organization has something controversial that they do from time to time.
• 44:31
  SPEAKER_03: I won't bring it out, but you know the kind of things, well, not everybody's gonna be on board with that.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't mean that they're some kind of phobe or whatever, but if it's public money, it needs to be agreeable.
• 44:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it needs to be in the public interest.
• 44:44
  SPEAKER_02: And also when we're talking about this advertising money, this is the fund that they use to when when the Air Force base is putting on a big shindig, and the city wants to be a sponsor of that shindig.
• 45:01
  SPEAKER_02: That's where they pull that money from.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, there are other other things that the city advertises with.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_02: They get on the they get their name on the banner, and it's supposed to be, you know, kind of uh as Jason Spears put it yesterday, more of a large-scale investment.
• 45:18
  SPEAKER_02: That's how this fund in particular has um traditionally been used.
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, Fastmasters.
• 45:26
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 45:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um so again, I don't have a problem with outside contributions.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have a problem, uh I don't have a problem in principle with public money being invested into the nonprofit arms in the community that that have a more direct impact on the kind of work that they do.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: But every time Dick and Harry shouldn't be um a part of that, honestly.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And if you're not on the list, you're not on the list.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you're not in the budget, you're not in the budget.
• 45:59
  SPEAKER_02: And that's really the hard line they should be drawing.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_02: I think that the application process is a better process than the one that they currently have, but I don't think that it is the best process.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_02: I think the best process is is that particular expenditure in the budget?
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: No.
• 46:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, well then we can't fund it.
• 46:19
  SPEAKER_02: That's what a budget is.
• 46:21
  SPEAKER_02: Also, the whole reason you sound like a Republican.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_02: I'm conservative in some ways.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: The um uh the reason that they didn't take that hard line before um was, you know, and Mayor Keith Gaskin, former Mayor Keith Gaskin was one of the ones that advocated in this way for not making it so uh strict.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_02: And there were some other councilmen too who agreed with him.
• 46:48
  SPEAKER_02: That what if you have a nice event that you start after August?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: What if what if the fiscal year starts and then you in December or January you have an opportunity to start this thing or do this thing?
• 47:02
  SPEAKER_02: Well, you didn't know about it before then.
• 47:05
  SPEAKER_02: Shouldn't you be considered?
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_02: No, you shouldn't be considered.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_02: You should see if your event goes and then come back in August and say, hey, we had our first annual or our inaugural or whatever in the newspaper business, not an annual until it's the third year.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: We we had our inaugural event, it went really well.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_02: It would go even better if you guys would uh invest in it a little bit or sponsor it.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_02: So here's our request to be put in the budget, and then they up down vote that, and it's done.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_02: No more coming up to the front.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_02: But here is how that this has continued, and this is where this is where I'm gonna maybe step on some toes a little bit.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Toes of people that I like and respect, toes of people who I think are consummate people.
• 47:52
  SPEAKER_02: You're preaching today.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, and this is where Gary Jefferson got really ticked off with this situation.
• 47:59
  SPEAKER_02: Ooh, that scares me.
• 48:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 48:01
  SPEAKER_02: Donnell comes up, asks for this money.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_02: The council doesn't think it exists anymore.
• 48:08
  SPEAKER_02: One of the council people asked Jim Brigham.
• 48:11
  SPEAKER_02: Jim Brigham says, Well, technically you can pull it out of this.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it opens this conversation into this whole other thing that nobody was expecting.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_02: So they table it, they end up tabling it twice before it comes up in this work session.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 48:29
  SPEAKER_02: Or Mr.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Briggs.
• 48:30
  SPEAKER_02: Well, it it it comes down to uh Jim when recommending yesterday, and he he was preaching a good word yesterday too, because he was like, This isn't fair to y'all, we've got to do something else.
• 48:44
  SPEAKER_02: Well, he doesn't say these things in the city council meetings, right?
• 48:49
  SPEAKER_02: And he finishes that with because y'all can spend the money how you want to spend it, and when you ask me if we have it, I'm gonna tell you the truth.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_02: Well, in Jim's case, honesty is relative because there's a difference between uh answering only answering what you're asked and telling the truth.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_02: And Jim Brigham was criticized last term by none other than his direct supervisor now, then ward now mayor, and then ward five councilman Stephen Jones for this very same thing.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_02: Um So somebody asked him, Can we do this?
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_02: Do we have the money?
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_02: He looks at the balance sheet, looks at the fund that you can technically legally spend it out of, and just says yes or no.
• 49:43
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't context that comes with that.
• 49:47
  SPEAKER_02: There's not a yes but, and I'll give you an example.
• 49:50
  SPEAKER_02: That doesn't do in business.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_02: No, it doesn't, because you know that this fund is being used for fireworks on water, um Bassmaster, various other things that this fund has been used for in the past.
• 50:04
  SPEAKER_02: Well, they say, well, can we use do we have a fund that can fund this?
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_02: Jim says yes.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_02: Um well, how much is in that fund?
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_02: $20,000, and this is what the fund is.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_02: Jim doesn't say, but this is what happens if you do here's the here's the downstream consequences.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_02: No fireworks.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, he doesn't say any of that.
• 50:26
  SPEAKER_02: He just simply asks, answers the question that he's asked.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_02: And then after that same meeting, when that and this is a true story, after that meeting is over with, where they table it the first time and they send Don L.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_02: Bags like, we'll give you an answer later.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_02: And everybody's confused.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_02: And Jim has told them that there's this fairy dust account that they can continue to just give to walk-ups.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_02: I walk up to Jim and I say, now this is different from the other fund where they had to match, yes.
• 50:56
  SPEAKER_02: Um but this is from Advertising City Resources?
• 50:59
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 51:00
  SPEAKER_02: And I just kind of look at him funny and he says, This is not what things like this is not what this fund is supposed to be used for.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_02: Why didn't you say that in the meeting?
• 51:14
  SPEAKER_02: And and that was and that was sort of Gary's point.
• 51:17
  SPEAKER_02: Gary, Gary was like, you know, we thought that we were supposed to tell all these people no, and I don't now there's this magic fairy dust fund that we can technically do it, but then we don't get we don't get the consequences.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do, you're gonna have a line of people.
• 51:32
  SPEAKER_02: But if you do, what happens when fireworks on the water or the air show or the other things happen, and you've exploded and you've completely exhausted this fund, giving it to Tom, Dick, and Harry, and you don't have it for the things that you normally use it for, nobody's saying those things.
• 51:49
  SPEAKER_02: And I think that the CFO should say those things, and and and and and should be empowered by his supervisor to say those things when the council is asking him questions.
• 52:02
  SPEAKER_03: So here we are in Catfish Alley studio reminding the City of Columbus that money doesn't grow on trees and we don't possess the ability, as does the feds, to print our own currency.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_02: Well, okay, so I want to I want to go a little bit deeper into that and maybe you know step on some more toes.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_02: Again, someone who I respect as a person and a professional and quite frankly like him.
• 52:28
  SPEAKER_02: But November 4th meeting.
• 52:32
  SPEAKER_02: Another person who does the same kind of thing that that Jim Brigham does with this counsel is Jeff Turnage, will very often, as the city attorney, do very similar things.
• 52:44
  SPEAKER_02: Answer what he's asked, or say nothing at all in situations where he probably should be involved in the conversation.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_03: It's the legal answer versus the human answer.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_03: Trevor Burrus, Jr.
• 52:57
  SPEAKER_02: Well, not necessarily even that.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_02: There's the legal exact answer and the full context answer, just like there's the financial technical answer and the financial, you know, in the financial as if somebody says, Hey, do we have the money to build a statue of Robert Smith at the Riverwalk?
• 53:20
  SPEAKER_02: Well, Jim looks at his page and says, Well, yeah, we could we've got that kind of money, and it can be pulled out of here.
• 53:29
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, there's no butt that comes after that, but if we build that statue, then you're not gonna have this money for these other things you normally use it for.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_02: And and and and so going back to Jeff, November 4th, Jerry Fortenberry comes up to the um uh fellow exchange member, love Jerry to death.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_02: Uh again, this isn't Jerry's fault.
• 53:56
  SPEAKER_02: He doesn't he doesn't know any better.
• 53:58
  SPEAKER_02: He walks up to the podium and he says, Hey, our Master Gardeners network is trying to bring the state Master Gardeners Convention to Columbus in 2026, and we would like to rent the Trotter for a discounted rate.
• 54:19
  SPEAKER_02: Steven starts talking about C V B.
• 54:21
  SPEAKER_02: Jamie starts talking about the CVB, something I don't exactly know how they were building that house.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_02: But Rusty says, Hey, didn't we vote on this last year?
• 54:33
  SPEAKER_02: The city has a policy that they voted on last year.
• 54:37
  SPEAKER_02: And he says, I didn't we vote on this last year?
• 54:41
  SPEAKER_02: What is our policy?
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_02: No one really says anything.
• 54:45
  SPEAKER_02: No one gives the correct answer in any case, and I'm over there, I'm looking up the story, and I pull up the story, the story is very, very simple.
• 54:53
  SPEAKER_02: If it's not a city event, it's full price at the trotter.
• 54:59
  SPEAKER_02: That's the city policy.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_02: The standing city policy.
• 55:05
  SPEAKER_02: Jeff Turnage is saying nothing during this entire thing about the standing city policy.
• 55:11
  SPEAKER_02: Rusty is like, I can't remember what it is, but we voted on this, and I know we have an existing policy on how to deal with this.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_02: Can anybody remember what it is?
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_02: Crickets.
• 55:22
  SPEAKER_02: I find it, I send it to Rusty, I I I send a screenshot of the article to Rusty during the meeting.
• 55:30
  SPEAKER_02: But that was like a whole year ago.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_02: After the meeting, I walk up to Jeff, I show Jeff my phone, and I say, Hey man, this is y'all's policy as far as I understood it.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he looks at that phone and he says, Yep, you and I are remembering that the same way.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_04: He didn't say anything.
• 55:49
  SPEAKER_02: And and that and and that to me is a secondary problem of this.
• 55:54
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like instead of, well, the wind is blowing this direction, let's if they ask a question and the answer can be yes, let's just make sure that we tell them how it can be yes.
• 56:07
  SPEAKER_02: I feel like your CFO, I feel like your COO, I feel like your mayor, I feel like your uh professional in-house attorney should feel empowered to say, hey, yeah, technically this is legal, or technically we have the money, but if we spend it on this or if we do this, this is what we're opening ourselves up to.
• 56:30
  SPEAKER_02: And I feel like if if they're not doing that of their own volition, they should start.
• 56:35
  SPEAKER_02: And if they feel like they're not empowered to do that, then somebody needs to make it very clear to those two guys who are consummate professionals and good at their job that they are empowered to do that.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_03: By all means.
• 56:48
  SPEAKER_03: No question about it.
• 56:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh comments relating to the statue of Mr.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: Roberts can be sent to tips at cdispatch.com.
• 56:56
  SPEAKER_02: Build it right by the amphitheater.
• 56:58
  SPEAKER_03: The um, you know, I I tell you, I'm listening to this.
• 57:02
  SPEAKER_03: We we kind of tell the story in such a manner that we say these people shouldn't be trusted with credit cards.
• 57:08
  SPEAKER_03: But but I've got to say, you know, it at the end of this story, kudos to the council because I I think it was handled appropriately.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_03: Took a while.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Took a while.
• 57:18
  SPEAKER_03: Took a while, but we're there.
• 57:20
  SPEAKER_02: And and Jim and Jeff both in that situation did make their voices heard eventually.
• 57:27
  SPEAKER_02: Um I just I wish they had I wish they had been more vocal in full context earlier on.
• 57:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't think we'd have had to have three meetings about it.
• 57:37
  SPEAKER_02: I think we could have knocked this out in one.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: Hats off to our leadership.
• 57:42
  SPEAKER_03: Just uh speak your mind.
• 57:44
  SPEAKER_03: Tell us what's deep down.
• 57:46
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know if y'all want to just one more perspective, and and maybe we don't need to go into this, but having sat on a lot of boards that benefit from city appropriations, one thing that's really important is these nonprofits I've not big, you know, Arts Council is is the main one that I was on that I was the treasurer of.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_00: That we got ten thousand dollars a year from the city.
• 58:10
  SPEAKER_00: And it was core to their budget every single year, knowing that they were getting I think it was ten, either eight or ten from the city or an eight or ten from the county.
• 58:20
  SPEAKER_00: And nonprofits really count on that consistency if they don't know from year to year whether they're getting ten ten thousand or not, it really hurts them in terms of budgeting.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_00: It'd be better to know I'm not getting this for all of eternity than to kind of have a question mark every year when they're doing their budget.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know if y'all want to touch that or not.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_00: It's fine if you don't.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: I just want to I mean, we just spent 30 minutes talking about this policy, but who it affects is a handful of nonprofits and a handful of you know, people that want to do parades and bullshit.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I think that perspective has some value.
• 59:00
  SPEAKER_00: But I don't know if y'all if y'all don't have firsthand knowledge of it, maybe it's not worth I can ask a question and and just kind of see.
• 59:07
  SPEAKER_03: Um see we're rolling.
• 59:09
  SPEAKER_03: I would well well, Zach, the thing about it is you can't this is cliche, but you can't borrow from Peter to pay Paul without Peter being out of some money.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_04: Right.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_03: And and we have some organizations that are well established and dependent upon a city disbursement every year.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 59:31
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna mess that up if we're not careful.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_02: I mean, if you're if you're uh dispersing money to walk ups, yeah.
• 59:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um because there's only a certain amount.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_02: And you know, there's there's some organizations like the library, they've got a contract with the city and the county for certain percentage of and every one a certain percentage of uh contribution, and every once in a while the library will ask for more, and there'll be a yes.
• 1:00:00
  SPEAKER_02: Or no, but the money that they usually can depend on is there.
• 1:00:05
  SPEAKER_02: But there's others that uh Columbus Arts Council, United Way, others that you know the uh the Humane Society, uh they're building their budgets every year depending on at least this amount from the city.
• 1:00:21
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes I ask for increases that are rejected, uh but sometimes those increases are approved.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_02: But if they if those organizations uh are getting that and they're going through the right process in the budget and getting and and getting those appropriations, um if it gets to the point to where they can't depend on that because we're trying to make everybody happy in some way or another, then you're gonna end up uh uh hurting more than you help because these standard established organizations that do big things here um are gonna end up having a downsize because uh y you can't tell people no.
• 1:01:11
  SPEAKER_03: I think the conservative faction of our city council has put an end to that.
• 1:01:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think good times are potentially ahead if they stay the course.
• 1:01:21
  SPEAKER_03: Next up, we're gonna talk about Worth Thomas getting the axe.
• 1:01:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:01:26
  SPEAKER_03: Let's take a quick break.
• 1:01:28
  SPEAKER_03: So on that, I don't know uh the So today in the paper I learned that the city lobbyist is getting the Nicks.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yep.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_03: And uh Worth Thomas, as they are called, uh was given 15 days notice uh and they are now terminated.
• 1:01:50
  SPEAKER_03: What what can we say about this?
• 1:01:52
  SPEAKER_02: Well, but just uh just briefly, um so looking at this work session yesterday, they don't always vote at these work sessions, but uh uh they can they can kick they can kick things to Tuesday or they can go ahead and move and vote on something at their discretion.
• 1:02:10
  SPEAKER_02: And um uh the mystery with the Worth Thomas thing, whether they would uh lose their contract, was that vote was gonna go as Gary Jefferson went.
• 1:02:23
  SPEAKER_02: Because with the full council and the mayor in place, um that was gonna cut 3-3.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_02: Uh uh if Jefferson voted to keep them, it was gonna cut 3-3, and the mayor was gonna get to decide whether to keep the lobbyist.
• 1:02:42
  SPEAKER_02: Well, about 75% of the way into the work session yesterday, Stephen left.
• 1:02:50
  SPEAKER_02: So Ethel's now uh Ethel Stewart from Ward 1, she's the vice mayor, so she has to now do his job, which has all of the same qualifications, so she can't vote unless there's a tie.
• 1:03:02
  SPEAKER_02: Roderick, who's the other definite vote to uh keep the lobbyist, is uh joining by phone for some amount of time in that uh uh at least during the nonprofit conversation.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:03:17
  SPEAKER_02: He's not on the line anymore.
• 1:03:19
  SPEAKER_03: Real quick, can he vote by phone?
• 1:03:22
  SPEAKER_03: Is that even legal?
• 1:03:23
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, you can vote by phone.
• 1:03:24
  SPEAKER_02: Uh but he wasn't on the phone, so he couldn't vote by phone.
• 1:03:26
  SPEAKER_03: Not sure how I feel about that.
• 1:03:27
  SPEAKER_02: But anyway, so the two guaranteed votes to keep the lobbyist are gone.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_02: The mayor, who would have been the tie-breaking vote under normal circumstances, out of the room.
• 1:03:40
  SPEAKER_02: Jason, I maybe he was gonna do this anyway.
• 1:03:43
  SPEAKER_02: I don't want to ascribe strategy to him that he didn't actually employ, but you know, no matter what, he's got a 3-1 vote to get rid of the lobbyist no matter what Gary Jefferson does in this situation.
• 1:03:58
  SPEAKER_02: So he makes the motion, and it ends up going 4-0 because Jefferson votes with him.
• 1:04:04
  SPEAKER_02: And Ethel made one hell of a last stand for Worth Thomas when it when she argued to keep him, knowing that she couldn't vote.
• 1:04:12
  SPEAKER_02: She argued to keep them.
• 1:04:14
  SPEAKER_02: She hit Jason with, Y'all had y'all had a lobbyist with the redevelopment authority that you were okay with, what's your problem now?
• 1:04:22
  SPEAKER_02: She threw everything she had at him, but when it came down to it, um Jason cites these reasons for wanting to go ahead and and give the notice.
• 1:04:33
  SPEAKER_02: Um you know, you remember when Selim came, Selim Baird came and defended their contract and the work that they had done.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:04:42
  SPEAKER_02: Um so after that meeting, he said, good faith.
• 1:04:47
  SPEAKER_02: I reached out, got a Zoom meeting uh with Selim.
• 1:04:51
  SPEAKER_02: There were there were some other people, even worth Thomas himself was on that Zoom call.
• 1:04:56
  SPEAKER_02: And he said, I had a good conversation, that was fine.
• 1:05:00
  SPEAKER_02: But then afterward, I asked for information that they said they had.
• 1:05:07
  SPEAKER_02: And I got no, I did not get the information, didn't get a response at all.
• 1:05:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I've asked them twice for the things.
• 1:05:14
  SPEAKER_02: One of the things that he asked them for, you remember when Salim came by and said, Well, you know, um we emailed in the last time we emailed the former mayor.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_02: Oh boy.
• 1:05:25
  SPEAKER_02: And we learned later that he wasn't passing, he wasn't those forwarding those emails to the council.
• 1:05:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, that was a very um That was iffy.
• 1:05:34
  SPEAKER_02: That was a tenuous claim to begin with, but um and and Keith in the paper denies that that was true.
• 1:05:42
  SPEAKER_02: So Jason just asked for those emails.
• 1:05:44
  SPEAKER_02: Hey, go into your sent box, forward me all the emails that y'all sent Keith, and we're square.
• 1:05:52
  SPEAKER_02: They they didn't even respond.
• 1:05:55
  SPEAKER_02: He called he called he called their card on that Keith lie, and crickets.
• 1:06:02
  SPEAKER_02: That and uh and that was the end of it.
• 1:06:07
  SPEAKER_02: He he said, you know, there's a pattern of behavior that they're not doing what we're paying them to do, and I want to get rid of them.
• 1:06:12
  SPEAKER_02: And Lavon, Gary, and uh Rusty all agreed.
• 1:06:18
  SPEAKER_03: It was an all-star move on the part of Jason.
• 1:06:20
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, no question about it.
• 1:06:22
  SPEAKER_03: I look at this story, one thing that sticks out, you know, the whole premise.
• 1:06:27
  SPEAKER_03: Uh Jamie Garrett uh talked about an arrangement of an appointment with our legislative delegation.
• 1:06:35
  SPEAKER_03: Doesn't that sound just like what you told me about the last time we talked about this?
• 1:06:39
  SPEAKER_03: How they were to be credited with giving us a visit with Senator Chuck Younger.
• 1:06:47
  SPEAKER_03: Well, good riddance.
• 1:06:49
  SPEAKER_03: I would say add a way to go for uh things that are ahead.
• 1:06:54
  SPEAKER_03: We've got a fresh slate here, and I think good things can become of it.
• 1:06:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, all that said, three things that I need to know.
• 1:07:02
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:07:03
  SPEAKER_02: Well, hey, just real quick, okay.
• 1:07:06
  SPEAKER_02: Ask me, ask me, did anything else come out of the work session?
• 1:07:09
  SPEAKER_03: All right.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_03: So before we move away from that, um anything else come out of that particular session?
• 1:07:17
  SPEAKER_02: One kind of interesting thing, uh but Steven left the meeting twice.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_02: The second time he left the meeting.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: Why?
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_02: Well, the second time he left the meeting, I don't know why.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_02: He just whispered to Ethel to take over and then he left.
• 1:07:28
  SPEAKER_03: I hope he wasn't showing a house or something.
• 1:07:31
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I don't think I I think I don't think he's doing that right now.
• 1:07:35
  SPEAKER_02: But um the first time he left was about 10-ish meeting minutes into the meeting, maybe not even quite uh that long.
• 1:07:46
  SPEAKER_02: So he stands up, he looks at Jim Brigham and says, the auditor's here to pick up that information.
• 1:07:54
  SPEAKER_02: And then he and Jim leave the meeting for a while to go downstairs.
• 1:07:58
  SPEAKER_02: He made sure everybody knew where they were going, and then they came back and just resumed the meeting.
• 1:08:03
  SPEAKER_02: So I am to assume that the auditor's office has in hand everything they asked for from the city as of yesterday.
• 1:08:12
  SPEAKER_03: But that's a few days removed from Halloween.
• 1:08:15
  SPEAKER_03: So did they like ask for an extension potentially?
• 1:08:17
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think so.
• 1:08:18
  SPEAKER_03: I think that just April 15th hit me by surprise here.
• 1:08:22
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I went to see Jim uh before the 31st.
• 1:08:26
  SPEAKER_02: He said all of it's in the corner right there, ready for him to come pick it up.
• 1:08:29
  SPEAKER_02: So I think it was the delay between the 31st and yesterday was just the time it took for them to get up there to get it.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: Very good.
• 1:08:36
  SPEAKER_03: And if anything comes out of that, you'll hear it right here in this very studio.
• 1:08:41
  SPEAKER_03: That's right.
• 1:08:42
  SPEAKER_03: So, Zach, three things to know.
• 1:08:45
  SPEAKER_02: All right, three things to know.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_02: Number one, Columbus High School tea a Columbus High School teacher faces drug possession charges after Lowndes County deputies found marijuana and meth in his car on a traffic stop.
• 1:08:55
  SPEAKER_02: Ryan Rico Bogan was stopped Monday for driving without his headlights or taillights engaged.
• 1:09:01
  SPEAKER_02: He was not on school property, and the school district has placed Bogan on administrative leave pending the investigation.
• 1:09:09
  SPEAKER_02: Number two, Columbus police are searching for a missing woman and have asked for the public's help in finding her.
• 1:09:15
  SPEAKER_02: Nashika Dobbs was last seen November 6th in Columbus with her boyfriend Jamar Hughes.
• 1:09:21
  SPEAKER_02: Anyone with information on her whereabouts can call CPD at 662-244-3500.
• 1:09:27
  SPEAKER_02: Number three, the sounds of Christmas are playing downtown, brought to you by the City, Main Street, Columbus, and the American Rescue Plan Act.
• 1:09:36
  SPEAKER_02: Main Street spent roughly$47,000 in ARPA for beautiful.
• 1:09:40
  SPEAKER_02: They got ARPA for beautification.
• 1:09:42
  SPEAKER_02: So they spent$47,000 of that installing a network of 14 speakers downtown that will play Christmas music through the holiday season and could also be used to help folks get in the split of the holidays like Easter and the Fourth of July.
• 1:09:56
  SPEAKER_03: Hang on a second.
• 1:09:57
  SPEAKER_03: We spent$47,000 on a speaker system.
• 1:10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Take that up with Stephen Jones and Barbara Bigelow.
• 1:10:05
  SPEAKER_02: I like the music.
• 1:10:06
  SPEAKER_02: Well, I think I like Mariah Carey too, but$47,000.
• 1:10:10
  SPEAKER_02: I bet you that song plays on those speakers before the holidays are up.
• 1:10:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know what song I'm talking about?
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 1:10:17
  SPEAKER_03: If you're going to install that type of system, I better be hearing it for years to come, not hear it this season, and then next Christmas is like starts breaking out, and then no music next Christmas.
• 1:10:30
  SPEAKER_03: That stuff better work if it costs that kind of taxpayer money.
• 1:10:33
  SPEAKER_03: Just saying.
• 1:10:34
  SPEAKER_03: Just saying.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you all for showing love to the show.
• 1:10:38
  SPEAKER_03: Be sure to keep following us and sharing us, getting the word out, make our hometown a better place.
• 1:10:43
  SPEAKER_03: And as always, send us your comments tips at cdispatch.com.
• 1:10:47
  SPEAKER_03: You can also follow me on Facebook or X at Dchishishm DoubleZero.
• 1:10:51
  SPEAKER_03: Signing off until next week, your host has been Zach Player.
• 1:10:55
  SPEAKER_03: I'm David Chisholm.
• 1:10:56
  SPEAKER_03: Y'all keep it friendly, and we'll keep it real.
• 1:11:01
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, so yeah, great greatest please on the discussion.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: Hold on.
• 1:11:06
  SPEAKER_00: Let's go back and get a couple of things.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Leading into the interview with Brent, let's just kind of set the stage.
• 1:11:14
  SPEAKER_00: You know, why are we calling him?
• 1:11:16
  SPEAKER_00: He's a little bit he's a little bit of an outlier when it comes to our guests.
• 1:11:19
  SPEAKER_00: So hunting season is upon us.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: We asked Brent Lacala, the one of the hosts of Woodsman Perspective, to join us, and then we can go into the welcome to the podcast.
• 1:11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I it's all it's weird to me when we pre- when something's obviously pre-recorded, but then in the editing, I'm forced to make it seem like it's a natural transition.
• 1:11:42
  SPEAKER_00: I'd rather I say we sat down with Brent and here's that interview.
• 1:11:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um I just I think I think it's a better transition because we go from talking about, you know, lobbyist to, you know, hey, let's talk about beer.
• 1:11:58
  SPEAKER_03: We're rolling.
• 1:12:00
  unknown: Yeah.
• 1:12:01
  SPEAKER_03: So today we sat down with Brent Lakala, who is the host of The Woodman Perspective, and here's what he had to say.
• 1:12:09
  SPEAKER_00: And then coming out of that, we've got to go from the interview to three things to know.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so we need some kind of transition there.
• 1:12:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like, we appreciate Brent joining us.
• 1:12:23
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 1:12:24
  SPEAKER_03: So we appreciate Brent joining us today.
• 1:12:26
  SPEAKER_03: I tell you, hunting and fishing just get more expensive by the year.
• 1:12:31
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 1:12:32
  SPEAKER_03: So other than that, what are the three things that I need to know?
• 1:12:38
  SPEAKER_00: Um