Latest / Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast / BPS 361: How to Squeeze Money Out of Your Indie Film with Patrick Solomon

Transcript

BPS 361: How to Squeeze Money Out of Your Indie Film with Patrick Solomon · Bulletproof Screenwriting™ Podcast

0:03
You are listening to the IFH podcast Network. For more amazing filmmaking and screenwriting
0:08
podcasts, just go to ifahpodcastnetwork dot com. Welcome to the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast,
0:14
Episode number three sixty one. We must be willing to get rid of
0:18
the life we've planned so as to have the life that is waiting for us.
0:23
Joseph Campbell broadcasting from a dark, windowless room in Hollywood when we really
0:28
should be working on that next draft. It's the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast, showing
0:33
you the craft and business of screenwriting while teaching you how to make your screenplay
0:37
bulletproof. And here's your host, Alex Ferrari. Welcome, Welcome to another
0:43
episode of the Bulletproof Screenwriting Podcast. I am your humble host Alex Ferrari.
0:48
Now, today's show is sponsored by Bulletproof script Coverage. Now. Unlike other
0:53
script coverage services, Bulletproof Script Coverage actually focuses on the kind of project you
1:00
are and the goals of the project you are, So we actually break it
1:03
down by three categories micro budget, indie film, market and studio film.
1:07
There's no reason to get coverage from a reader that's used to reading tempole movies.
1:11
When your movie is going to be done for one hundred thousand dollars,
1:15
and we wanted to focus on that. At Bulletproof Script Coverage, our readers
1:18
have worked with Marvel Studios, CIA, WME, NBC, HBO, Disney,
1:23
Scott Free, Warner Brothers, The Blacklist, and many many more.
1:26
So if you need your screenplay or TV script covered by professional readers, head
1:33
on over to covermiscreenplay dot com. Well, guys, I am excited for
1:38
today's episode. We have filmmaker and film entrepreneur Patrick Solomon, who is the
1:45
director of the wildly celebrated film Finding Joe. Now Finding Joe is an exploration
1:53
of Joseph Campbell's studies and the hero's journey. And I watched this film years
1:57
ago and loved it, and I just saw it pop up here and there
2:01
and constantly being seen in Netflix and all these other streaming services and platforms,
2:08
and I always wondered how Patrick, you know, was doing with the film.
2:13
And I come to find out that Patrick read a rise of the Film
2:16
Entrepreneur and was super stoked about what it had to say and how it could
2:22
help his film continue to make money years after its release. So in this
2:28
episode, Patrick and I get into it and we start talking about how the
2:34
film came to be, what he did right, what he did wrong when
2:38
he released it originally, what his distribution journey has been, and how the
2:43
film entrepreneur method is being used to squeeze every last drop of revenue out of
2:50
this film and helping it find a new audience and being of value to that
2:54
audience, which is always the key to getting any money and any rev you
3:00
from a film providing massive amounts of value to your audience. So, without
3:06
any further ado, please enjoy my conversation with Patrick Solomon. I like the
3:10
welcome to show, Patrick Solomon. Man, Hey, Patrick, how you
3:13
doing brother? What's happening? Thank you for having me? Oh, thank
3:16
you for coming on the show. Man. I am a big fan of
3:21
your film Finding Joe, and I saw it years ago when it first came
3:25
out, and I actually have gone back to it a bunch of times because
3:29
it's just it's like a warm cup of like coffee or like, you know,
3:34
something like a piece of apple. Piet just very comforting. It's a
3:37
very comforting film. It's comforting because it's very hopeful. It's a very hopeful
3:43
film, and it's just very well executed, and it was unlike anything I'd
3:47
seen before that time or honestly since talking about the work and life of Joseph
3:54
Campbell, but like more of his theories and stuff. But we're gonna get
3:58
into it, We're gonna get into finding Joe. But first and FOREM,
4:00
how did you get into the film business? Let's see, I got into
4:02
the film business at a really young age. I was just into it right,
4:09
right, and out of high school, I started shooting on Super eight
4:14
film just to date myself, and I started shooting stuff that I was into,
4:16
like skateboarding and snowboarding. And right when snowboarding was first becoming snowboarding,
4:24
right, you couldn't really go anywhere except for like three places. Once again
4:27
dating myself, I said, okay, let's make a snowboard film. And
4:32
then some sponsors at the time came out and said, okay, well we'll
4:34
find that, and I started shooting snowboard films and that was it. Man,
4:40
I was like, I'm off to the races. This is what I'm
4:42
going to do for the rest of my life. Very cool. And you
4:45
and you worked in the commercials, right, So in the summertimes, I
4:48
would come back to LA and I'd work as a production assistant in commercials.
4:51
So my contacts grew in commercials. And somebody was like, hey, you're
4:56
doing these snowboard films, would you be interested in shooting any commercials? And
5:00
I said, yeah, I do that, And so I started shooting commercials
5:02
and I was like, this is great. I'm going to do this for
5:04
the rest of my life. And so and so I had a you know,
5:09
I was off to a commercial career's commercial director and that was a different
5:14
time because you and I are similar vintages. So I remember when there was
5:19
just money flowing into commercials, blowing, blowing. You would have half a
5:26
million, like rain, half a million here, million plus their campaigns.
5:30
It was it was insane. Uh. And I was in I was in
5:35
South Florida during that time, and and so I was I was working with
5:39
some of the big commercial houses down there, and I just saw it was
5:43
just it was the nineties like it it was. I wasn't. I got
5:46
into it at like late nineties, like ninety six, ninety seven. I
5:50
got my start there and then and then yeah, I just I worked all
5:56
the way through to when I when I started making Finding Joe which was two
6:00
thousand and nine. Yeah, that's yeah, and that's ah. It's a
6:04
commercial work and if anyone listening right now, it's not nearly as easy to
6:09
get into the commercial world anymore as it used to be, So I would
6:14
I would back that up. It isn't It isn't right because if you're young
6:17
and you're just starting out and you can afford to you know, if you
6:23
if you're in your twenties, especially, you know, you don't have a
6:25
relationship, you don't have a kid, you don't have a lot of commitments
6:27
like a mortgage, You can just go out and shoot whatever you want it
6:30
might be. To get paid is a lot harder. But to get a
6:32
client and just they have to shoot some cool stuff for free and build a
6:36
real that's absolutely easier. Oh yeah, yeah, free free services are always
6:41
easy to sell. That's not I think in any decade it's a very simple,
6:46
easy process, is speaking. But yeah, I'm just like to get
6:50
back up to like the the David Fincher style budgets and the Michael Bay budgets
6:56
back in the eighties and nineties. Never coming back. Oh my god,
7:00
those days, man, I just remember those like not coming back like propaganda
7:05
days. Remember the propaganda days. Oh yeah, yeah, I worked for
7:08
them that you worked for probably, I mean, I was my one of
7:11
my best friends worked in the vault at Propaganda. So he would send me.
7:15
He would send me vhs as a Fincher, Bay, Gondry, Jones.
7:19
He just send me their reels and before the internet really, so I
7:25
would see all their demos and short films and oh it freaking awesome, dude.
7:29
It was a different world, different world world. So then you got
7:34
out of the commercial world for a minute and got into the highly highly profitable
7:39
documentary space. You know, we called me that at the time, though,
7:45
So I was thinking and in my mind where I was like, Okay,
7:46
I'm gonna make this film, and I was kind of I was really
7:51
commercially. I was like, okay, what's next. I know, I've
7:55
kind of done this and and I was getting a little sour on doing commercial
7:58
so I thought, Okay, I'm going to do this film and that'll launch
8:00
me into this whole career doing documentaries and all. I didn't really think about
8:05
the money too just and to your book, Film Entrepreneur, I really wasn't
8:09
thinking that way at all, you know. I still considered myself an artist
8:13
and all I got to do is make something good and the money will follow.
8:16
Sure, really, and I didn't even think that that was even an
8:20
actual thought. That was probably like a feeling I had, and so so
8:24
on that end of it. Obviously it didn't work out because, as you
8:28
know, and as you're write about, you really have to be intentional about
8:31
your distribution and your marketing and how you're going to make money on this thing.
8:35
Yeah, but the one thing about Finding Joe, well, first of
8:37
all, we're talking about like everybody knows what it is. Tell everybody what
8:41
Finding Joe is and how it came to be, right. So, Finding
8:43
Joe is a film I did. It was released in twenty twelve, and
8:48
it's a film about Joseph Campbell's work, right, And so if you don't
8:52
know Jesus, Joseph Campbell is really quick. He was a mythologist and he
8:58
discovered this common thread in all stories of the world. Hollywood uses Joseph Campbell's
9:03
work quite a bit, and he called hero's journey, right, A hero
9:07
in every single story goes on almost the exact same journey when you break it
9:11
down. And so Joseph Campbell coined the phrase the hero's journey, and he
9:15
also coined the phrase follow your bliss. And what was different about him was
9:20
he made this correlation and he said, well, the reason why every hero
9:24
in every story in every time period is taking the same journey is because humans
9:30
are taking the same journey. So he correlated the story that you see on
9:35
the screen to the story of your life. And so the film is about
9:39
that part of it. The film is really about the story of your life
9:43
more so than Joseph Campbell. Yeah, and what I loved about it is
9:48
you had a lot of guests come in and the people you were interviewing so
9:52
such celebrities and you know, just authors and other people who really just had
9:58
such a love for Joseph's work. We'll be right back after a word from
10:03
our sponsor, and now back to the show. And anyone who's ever seen
10:11
Star Wars, because it was just May it was May the fourth be with
10:15
you yesterday. If anyone who who who's ever seen Star Wars, it was
10:22
basically the blueprint of the hero's journey the original Star Wars exactly and so and
10:26
so that was really what made Campbell's work famous was that George Lucas was was
10:31
a disciple of Campbell's right, and so he went so far as to fly
10:37
flew Campbell to his estate in Marin County and they shot this series of interviews
10:41
with Bill Moyer's and that made made him quite famous at that time. Yes,
10:46
The Power of Myth, which is I think available on Netflix now on
10:50
Netflix. That's available on Netflix, available on YouTube. If you haven't seen
10:54
Campbell's work and you're inspiring filmmaker or you're a filmmaker, go watching. So
10:58
so you start putting this move be together. And I mean as far as
11:03
the film entrepreneur style or mentality, I know you weren't thinking about it,
11:05
but let's let's let kind of let's do a post mortem on Finding Joe.
11:09
You embarrass me now, No, I'm not. Actually it Actually it has
11:13
a lot of key elements that makes sense. So you have a niche audience.
11:18
It's broad, but it's still a niche audience with people who are interested
11:20
in Joseph Campbell. That's why I saw it. I was like, I'm
11:24
a filmmaker, I know who Joseph Campbell is, and this is a documentary
11:26
that's gonna kind of really spoon feed me, you know, without having to
11:31
read thousands of volumes of or watch or watch Mythos one and two, which
11:39
is his lecture series which I watched years ago, and it's pretty academic that
11:46
stuff. But if you're not in continue off exactly. So I was really
11:50
excited about it, and I would feel that there would be a large audience
11:54
for this film because of that and the celebrities you hadn't involved in it as
11:58
well, and so there was there were niche audiences, and there were you
12:03
know, there's little packets of people that you can bring in. So how
12:05
did it actually play out for you? Okay? So yeah, just just
12:09
to preface this too, So I'm I'm about to embarrass myself greatly with my
12:13
ignorance at the time, right and every and well we all do as you
12:16
were saying those things. I'm feeling like this little pinch, like you're stabbing
12:20
me, Like, oh god, that right? Oh god, no,
12:24
I made I actually from looking at it from the outside when I saw this,
12:28
I was like, this is a really great package, Like it's a
12:31
good it makes sense to me, and it's I'm assuming it wasn't super expensive
12:35
to make because it didn't look like it was super expensive to make. I
12:39
love what the grand scheme of things, it was all all in like distribution,
12:43
marketing, all in the entire budget was a half a million, right,
12:48
which which in the grand scheme of independent films is pretty it's it's an
12:52
affordable price. But also which is also back in two thousand and ten,
12:56
right, which it's probably even less to make now. Oh yeah, you
13:00
could probably make that movie much more affordably now, but but it's still it
13:05
seems it seems smart even at that even at that price point, there's enough.
13:09
There's enough people out there who know who Joseph Campbell is, who are
13:13
fans of the Star Wars, you know, that would want to watch this
13:16
film. So how did it play out? Okay, so so let's get
13:20
into the post mortem and me embarrassing myself. All right. So, so,
13:24
first of all, filmmaking mistake one on one self distribution. Right.
13:28
I said to myself, this film is gonna have a theatrical release because I'm
13:33
a filmmaker, and that's what films do, and that's how you that's just
13:39
the way it is. I'm gonna have a theatrical release because I'm I'm a
13:41
real filmmaker. I'm a real filmmaker, maker spel If Spielberg gets a theatrical
13:46
I set right, So I really I really like laid down the law there.
13:50
I got this is what I'm doing. Mistake number one. And the
13:54
reason why is because a theatrical release costs so much money to do correc right,
14:00
So you need you need millions of dollars to do that correctly. Right,
14:03
We're trying to get butts in the seats, as they say, cost
14:07
a lot of money. So if you're doing it a small scale like I
14:09
was doing it, you're not getting the ROI. You just are not going
14:13
to make You're not going to get a bunch of people in the seats with
14:16
the money that you're going to have to spend. And so that was mistake
14:20
number one. So I we initially started off with just some of these teaser
14:26
screenings. So I would go to New Mexico. We would just advertise that
14:28
we'd try to get a big theater, and we said to ourselves, yeah,
14:31
we got a niche here, let's let's capitalize in our niche. We'd
14:35
get like a seven hundred seat theater and sell it out in one night.
14:39
Right. It was awesome. But then we went to the We only did
14:43
that six or seven times, and they were so successful and wonderful and they
14:46
made me feel so good about myself. And then we got to the theatrical
14:48
release, the actual theatrical release, and that just sucked. Man. We
14:54
released it in how do we do this? We rolled it out in New
14:58
York and then to roll it across the country a little bit, and it
15:03
was horrible. Man, it was just it was, you know, there
15:05
was hardly anyone in the theaters. And I think overall we had good numbers,
15:09
but I would go out to the to the beginning of each city,
15:15
right each city is to are like on a Friday and sit down and do
15:18
a Q and A, and it was like sometimes it was like three people
15:20
in the audience is brutal. But also, to be fair to you,
15:24
and I'm going to defend you a little bit too, to yourself, is
15:28
that you were doing a theatrical release in a traditional standpoint, not in an
15:31
in a kind of guerrilla standpoint. Because now it was it wasn't right.
15:37
So we knew we had this niche audience. We just did a really bad
15:39
job marketing at understanding who our niche was knowing where to spend the money.
15:45
You're right, we didn't run a real well, we weren't doing TV ads,
15:48
right, I mean, we were doing you know, we're doing a
15:52
lot of internet marketing, but you know, we neither me or my team
15:56
had the experience to know where to put the dollars right. And it also
15:58
face book was around, but it wasn't the powerhouse that it was today.
16:03
It was the power house today, and we didn't exploit it to the to
16:06
the degree we should have exactly, and there and there wasn't the kind of
16:11
pinpoint marketing that's available for the past five or six years was not available then.
16:15
It's just in its infancy yet. So you really, you really couldn't
16:18
go into New York City and just target within a five block radius of the
16:22
theater like that. That's not something I was available back then. And then
16:26
so and you were four walling it, I'm assuming you were paying we were?
16:30
Were we fourwhalling it? We were four wheling it? Yes, we
16:33
were. We were. It's been so long, I'm like, will we
16:36
I don't know, Yeah, yeah, so we we exactly we were fourwhelling
16:38
it, meaning we rented, we paid for this for the screen time and
16:44
you know, we it just it just was a looking back on it,
16:48
it was like mistake after a mistake, and rookie ones too, like,
16:52
you know, don't do a theatrical release. You're not going to make any
16:55
money doing that. Well, I mean, and again, theatrical there is
16:59
well now today's world, there's no theatrical right now as we as we speak
17:03
because of the quarantine. But generally speaking there there can be very successful theatrical
17:10
runs depending on how you do it. And again, to be fair to
17:12
you, it was a different time and there wasn't as much information on it.
17:17
There just wasn't as much information. There hadn't been a lot of people
17:18
who had done that successfully yet Now, I mean, on my show alone,
17:22
I've had a handful of people who've had extremely thet you know, documentaries
17:26
who done it very well. And the narratives have done very well theatrically.
17:30
But they do profit sharing, they don't for a wall. They use internet
17:37
marketing exclusively. There are ways to make that work. But you do the
17:42
whole thing again, I would be completely yeah. So all right, so
17:48
now you did this theatrical run, You've you're not happy with this, so
17:52
now where do you go from there? Right? And so now I start
17:55
now, so now I'm behind the Now I'm behind the curve. Right,
17:59
So there's a lot of up to do. Like Christmas is coming, somebody
18:03
says, hey, man, you should have a DVD and you know,
18:04
we should get this online, and because then you could still buy DVDs,
18:08
it was just shifting over at that point. But and so it was a
18:11
scramble. Oh oh right, let's get that done. So so we got
18:15
that done, but we didn't really get the marketing place for it, so
18:18
it just was okay. And then oh, there's these new platforms you check
18:22
out guy a TV, all these other platforms you should Food Matters was just
18:26
coming out. So so there was a lot of these platforms, but none
18:30
of them were intentional, Like we didn't sit down and say, okay,
18:32
here's our roadmap. We were reacting to stuff coming up, right. It
18:36
was more like something would pop up and we go, oh, oh that's
18:38
cool, yeah, Jase our tail a little bit in that process. Lights
18:42
and drum shina, lights and drumk exactly. So now going forward, right,
18:47
and I can't wait to finish the film that I'm on now because I'm
18:49
not going to make one single mistake. Okay, maybe you know, but
18:55
I'm gonna learn from all those mistakes I made and really, you know,
18:59
get ahead of the game on the distribution marketing, the release is what exactly
19:04
is it that we are selling to the public? So okay, so all
19:07
right, So what happened with the did you did you sell out? Did
19:11
you do DVDs? How did you do it all yourself? By the way,
19:14
did you ever did you ever get a conversation with a distributor? No
19:17
one approached you about this? I did, I had. I had a
19:19
few different conversations with distributed, but I didn't like their deals. Shock,
19:22
so I just said no to everybody. And then of course I jumped in
19:26
bed with distriber and you know, we know how that ended. Oh geez,
19:30
so you were you were caught up in the distribuer but the bacle as
19:33
well. Oh yeah yeah, yeah, but that was later, but you
19:37
must have made somebody that was way later. Yeah. So it took,
19:41
Like I said, I think it took about two years to get into the
19:44
black right, and looking back on it, it should have just taken way
19:47
less time, right, like, like, had I not done that theatric
19:49
release. It would have taken us less than a year, right, just
19:52
because just because of the money we spent. We'll be right back after a
19:57
word from our sponsor and now back to the show. But that we did
20:08
the DVDs, right, I felt like the DVDs had good sale. I
20:11
made it. I made a distribution deal with a DVD distributor and with a
20:17
couple of markets that were exclusive to him, and then I and then I
20:19
made some deals with people around the world, which I also discovered was a
20:23
great a great source of income was to make deals with different Marcus worldwide.
20:30
You did that directly without a sales rep. Without a sales rep. Yeah,
20:33
how did you? How did you get access over? Did they find
20:36
you? A little bit of both? Some people found me. But then
20:40
I would do research what there was a few other films that were out at
20:45
the time, and I just looked at their distribution list online, like who
20:48
distributes what the bleep in Germany or whatever? Right, and then I just
20:53
out to them, Hey, I got a film blah blah blah. Okay,
20:56
So then and then so you start and then you're making any money with
20:59
the DVDs. We made an okay, amount of money. I can't remember
21:03
what the numbers were, but I remember going, Okay, this isn't too
21:07
bad. Like I wasn't overwhelmed, but I wasn't bummed about that either,
21:11
Like I wasn't bummed about the income on the DVDs the way I was on
21:15
the theatrical. So when you went into the streaming deals, what was Was
21:18
it a positive or a negative situation? It was positive, Like I like
21:25
the deals that we made. We weren't making a ton of money streaming,
21:27
like hardly at all, but I just liked the idea that the film was
21:32
out there streaming. Our best deal was with Distriper. We were making pretty
21:36
decent money with those guys for a while. And it was just Apple TV.
21:40
That's it, no one else. It was in peoples people were renting
21:42
it. Yeah, because people were renting and downloading it there exactly, and
21:45
it was such a big platform that people could get to it easy. And
21:49
it's also different, like what year is that we're talking about, twenty thirteen
21:53
exactly, twenty thirteen, fourteen, twenty fifteen, So vod was a thing.
21:57
Yeah, TVAD was still a thing back then. People are still renting
22:00
a lot and still buying movies on Apple and stuff like that. Now now
22:04
would be a very different a different world. But overall, so at the
22:08
end of this this journey with this film, and you're still generating revenue with
22:12
it, you own it still, I'm assuming, right, yeah, right,
22:15
so you're still generating revenue with it. It's still you know you Overall,
22:18
it's been a very positive experience. Overall, man, it has been
22:23
such a positive and amazing experience, even like just the production of the film,
22:29
Like making the film was such an amazing like I would call it one
22:32
of the high points of my life. Like just just producing that film and
22:36
the people that I met and the experiences that I had making it were just
22:38
priceless. Yeah, I mean, I love what you did with the children
22:42
as re enactments. I thought that was such a clever way to shoot those
22:48
stories. Like you're trying to tell stories like the hero's journey, but you're
22:52
doing it through children dressed up in like they're playing imaginary heroes or something like
22:59
that. I'm glad that worked out. I was like, this is crazy,
23:02
No one's gonna like this. And then we got a couple of tests
23:03
back and I was like, this is awesome, this is gonna be the
23:06
way we're gonna do the whole movie. Yeah, it was. It was
23:07
great, and it was just it's a very well produced piece. You could
23:11
tell that whoever you know, the director was, who knew what they were
23:14
doing it was. It was very polished. But that's and that's one of
23:17
the reasons why I reached out to you for for indie film Hustle TV because
23:21
I wanted it. I wanted it so badly because I was like, oh
23:22
please, I'd love to have it on this platform I think it is.
23:26
When I got your email, I was like, oh my god, this
23:27
guy knows who I am. I love this. I appreciate that, man,
23:32
I appreciate that. So so let's let's talk a little bit about Joseph's
23:37
work, because I know him, Joseph Joe. I like to call him
23:41
m Joe. You talk a little bit about what they can break down the
23:45
hero's journey for people who might not know what the hero's journey is in a
23:48
very basic way. Sure. So, so the hero's journey breaks down like
23:53
this, right, So a hero there's there's basically three parts, right,
23:59
separation and initiation and return. And you could think about it like this circle.
24:02
Right. So a hero starts off in their village or their place of
24:04
comfort, and somehow they are called on some on an adventure. Sometimes you
24:11
get kicked out of the village. Sometimes you follow a butterfly into the forest,
24:15
you know. Sometimes your village gets attacked by a neighboring army and it
24:18
burns down and you got to go, or you know, and you know,
24:22
Star Wars is the classic example, right, Sometimes your aunt and uncle
24:25
are murdered by the stormtroopers and you got to go. So so now the
24:30
hero goes on an adventure where you learn things, gain things, and you
24:37
acquire the treasure. Right, that's the goal of the journey is to get
24:41
the gold or destroy the Death Star. But you get some thing and then
24:47
that's not the end of it. You return with that thing, knowledge scepter
24:52
to the village where you started. Right. So separation, separation, initiation,
24:57
return, and that's base the hero's journey in a nutshell. So if
25:02
you break it down, if you just watch Star Wars, it is literally
25:06
as perfect of a blueprint the original Star Wars to the hero's journey is anything
25:10
I've ever seen, right, And you and you and you start and you
25:12
start analyzing the hero's journey, and you know, the hero's journey is in
25:18
almost every story. It's not in every story, but it is. I
25:21
mean, if you start, especially every Hollywood story, every every major Hollywood
25:25
blockbuster, even independent films, all of them have a version of this and
25:32
difficult kind of film that doesn't. Yeah, the only ones I've ever found
25:36
is kind of like like you know, sir Authoron Cohan Doyle, like you
25:40
know Sherlock Holmes stories, detective stories, those those don't have that as much
25:44
because it's a different kind of storytelling. But generally everything else has the hero's
25:49
journey in it, and it's and for people listening if you you know,
25:55
a lot of times, I know there's these moments in your life where where
26:00
things happen, like you lose your job, you break up with your girlfriend,
26:07
you're stuck in a house from quarantine. There are events that happen that
26:11
are catalysts for you to start a new adventure and their opportunities. I always
26:15
look like I've been fired twice. I had two full time jobs, only
26:19
two full time jobs I ever had in my career, and I was fired
26:22
from both. I'm very proud of my firings, and both of them started
26:26
me off on completely new paths. And we break up with someone, start
26:32
you on a new journey and you have to learn things, and that's what
26:34
our life is, You're right, like, that's exactly what Joe So was
26:37
saying, is that you start as a child and you go off on journeys,
26:41
and you can sometimes it's literal, like literally you get on a boat
26:45
somewhere and go on a journey and then come back. But other times it's
26:48
a little bit more metaphorical. But you do go off and learn things.
26:51
I mean, I'm sure you learned a lot on that film. I did.
26:55
I mean, I feel like I feel like so just in the making
26:59
of the film itself as a class hero's journey. And know, I went
27:00
out in this adventure to make a film about the hero's journey, right,
27:06
and then I made this film about the hero's journey, and I returned to
27:08
the village that is the world, and I shared that journey. Yeah,
27:14
basically, And and is there any like what is your the books that really
27:19
draw you from from Joseph work. I'm assuming Heroes has a thousand faces is
27:23
the main especially if you're if you're checking this out. Then then uh,
27:29
the Hero of a Thousand Faces is like really the classic work and that's the
27:33
one that that Lucas really gravitated towards. However, it's kind of dense material,
27:37
right. I would start with the Power of Myth, which is the
27:41
just was the Moyers series. It's a book, right, the Power Myth.
27:45
They turned that into a book. Get that one first because it really
27:48
breaks down in very easy to understand ways, all these different ideas. And
27:53
then yeah, there and then because I was such a Joseph Campbell fan,
27:56
I actually went out and got Mythos on VHS Mythos and this. Those two
28:00
yeah, and uh, man, they're dense. They're dense, I mean,
28:07
and and that's that's the thing is you can really get sucked into them
28:10
if you're in the right mindset or if you're just you know, if you're
28:14
a Joseph Campbell fan. But if you're not, Man, I really recommend
28:18
powerd Myth for there's another one called Reflections on the Arts of Living. That's
28:22
easy. That's a way, an easy way in and really inform you know,
28:26
you'll get a lot of great information out of that. What was it
28:30
about Joseph's work that drew you to him, like what made you want to
28:33
make this documentary life? Right? So when I also when I was a
28:37
kid and I was just starting my my filmmaking career, is when those Moyer's
28:41
interviews came out, and man, I was just hooked on those things,
28:42
and I started reading everything that he ever wrote, and I really geeked out
28:48
on Campbell for for years and years, and then when I would have a
28:49
crisis in my life, I would go back to Campbell's work right, which
28:52
is essentially the Myths of the World, and you really is informational about humans
28:57
and you know why we do the things we do and how to It provides
29:03
a great map. When you look at a map, you can say,
29:07
oh, man, I'm having this crisis here, but further down the road,
29:11
I can see it's going to be better. So it provides a good
29:12
roadmap of life. And is there any of Joseph's philosophy that can help you
29:21
on a daily basis? That's just a human being. I would say,
29:23
you know the classic Joseph Cambel line, which is follow your bliss right,
29:27
follow your bliss and doors will open where there were only walls right, that's
29:32
the line. And so to me, the idea of trying to follow your
29:37
bliss on a daily basis is it's really a practice and it's just been magical
29:44
for myself and I know for many people to wake up in the morning and
29:45
go, what am I here to do? How can I do that?
29:48
Serve people while doing that, We'll be right back after a word from our
29:55
sponsor, and now back to the show. If you can do that,
30:03
you've won. Really, what is when you just said be of service?
30:10
Is that something that's very important to you and your work is of being of
30:12
service to your audience? I think so. And I think that the way
30:17
I look at the hero's journey different now is that going back to straw Wars
30:21
for example, you know, everyone who's on a journey is their own hero,
30:26
right, You're on your own journey, You're a hero. I'm on
30:29
my journey. I'm here. We bump into people right there on their own
30:32
journeys, but we can also be the yodas to people that are on their
30:37
journey, right, And that actually is to me feels a lot better now.
30:41
Like I love helping young filmmakers out, I love I just love helping
30:47
people in other ways, and so to be of service and be a guide
30:49
and be the the Yoda or the Merlin to somebody who's just coming up,
30:55
that to me just feels better. It has a I love doing that.
31:00
It's addictive, isn't it. Yes, Yeah, I started this. I
31:03
started my journey five years almost five years ago with indie film Hustle, and
31:07
I can't turn back now. This is just like it's addictive. Family.
31:11
You're providing that service for for many people, myself included, right, You're
31:17
offering this guidance to people who really need it, and it's got to be
31:19
amazing. It's a it's a really great feeling, uh to do it.
31:22
And that's why I always tell people, you know, when you are of
31:25
service and if you want to follow, if you want your dream to come
31:27
true, help somebody else follow theirs, Yes, and help somebody else achieve
31:32
theirs. My favorite quote of Campbell's is the the treasure that you seek is
31:37
in the cave they're afraid to walk into. Yeah, which is which is
31:41
a great so true though it's so so true. Now, what is the
31:47
biggest lesson you learned making that film? Like, what's the if you have
31:51
the one takeaway. God, there's so there's so many takeaways I think from
31:57
from a from a filmmaker point of view, just there. So there's some
32:01
creative things that I learned about about how to get through creatively right, because
32:06
there was a lot of creative challenges in that film. And and creativity isn't
32:10
always sexy, right, Creativity doesn't always happen in these moments where you get
32:15
this lightning bolt, right. A lot of times creativity comes from just getting
32:20
dirty, sweaty and suffering for weeks. Very true, very very true.
32:27
Now, what is the what's the next movie you're working on? And how
32:30
is it going to be different? Then? As far as how you're going
32:32
to make money with it and sell it and get it to the audience,
32:36
that's uh, that's a good point. So I'm making this film. The
32:39
title of the film right now is called what is Money? Right? And
32:42
the film is about the subject of money. I know it's a broad subject,
32:45
but it's when I started, I didn't really have a central theme or
32:50
a question that I was asking. Money just intrigued me. People at the
32:53
Q and as at Finding Joe would stand up and say, hey, man,
32:55
I'd like to just quit my job and follow my bliss. But I
32:59
need money and that kind of hit me like, wait a minute, you
33:01
do need money? And wait, what is money? That's weird. So
33:05
the idea of money just stuck with me and I knew that I just I
33:07
needed to make a film about it. So it's turning into kind of a
33:13
not a definition of money. But but why what money is? Right?
33:19
Why we suck with it? And how we can understand money in a way
33:22
that makes you go, oh right, I get it. I understand money
33:25
a lot better now and maybe there's not so much stress and anxiety about it.
33:30
Yeah. Yeah, I've been studying the topic of money now for probably
33:35
for a couple of years now. I've read probably a forty fifty to sixty
33:37
pous on the subject. We've read the same books. Oh yeah, I
33:40
mean I just read. I'm constantly reading stuff about every aspect of money.
33:46
Hit me with your favorite bits, because it's interesting what different people take about
33:51
their takeaways about money. But man, it's a fascinating topic, very triggering,
33:55
and I'm stoked to come out with it. And then on the back
33:59
end to this, I'm doing things that I never did with the first film,
34:02
which is immediately day one, I started thinking about what's my distribution,
34:07
what's my marketing strategy, Who's my audience? So I just have pages and
34:10
pages and pages about who my potential audience is, about marketing, what the
34:15
marketing strategy is going to be, what platforms are we going to run on.
34:19
Just all these things that that you should think about. You should think
34:22
about them just as equally as as your production of the film. Oh,
34:27
I think, if not more so, in many ways. Exactly, if
34:30
not more so, Yeah, because there's so many filmmakers who are just like
34:34
like you were saying, I'm the artist at the end, when when post
34:37
is done, I'm done. When post is done, I'm done. I
34:38
don't I kill it. I thought that way for so long. Man.
34:42
It's that's the killer that's going to kiss of death right there. Let me
34:45
know where where's the red carpet? I just let me know where the red
34:46
carpet. I'll pick up the awards, Like, I don't understand. Can
34:49
I get my picture taken with? Yeah, let's do this just and you
34:52
can send the check to this address. And that's basically what you expect doing
34:58
that again. Yeah, it is such a It is such a myth that
35:00
I've been trying to bust now for five years, basically since I started doing
35:05
this. And so as far as the way you were asking earlier about what
35:10
like my favorite tidbits on money is the biggest one I the biggest one I
35:15
took away and hopefully this could help some people out, obviously Robert Kuzaki and
35:22
and yeah, rich dad, poor dad, which the four quadrants of a
35:27
rich dad, poor dad are super was very impactful to me, and i'd
35:30
ready years ago, but I guess at this age I started listening to it
35:32
a little bit differently, which is the employee, the self employed, the
35:37
business owner and the investor, and the concept that when you're an employee,
35:42
you're basically a surf You're a slave to that job, and the second that
35:49
job shuts down, you're done and that work. And that could be a
35:52
high paying job. It could be a lawyer, it could be a doctor,
35:57
it could be you know, a big movie star, depending on you
36:00
know, if you're making two, three, four million dollars a year,
36:02
that sounds like a lot of money, but if you cost you four or
36:05
five million dollars a year to live your lifestyle, you're in the same boat
36:08
as the guy making twenty thousand dollars make trying to make ends meet obviously at
36:12
a different level, but you're still stuck there. So when that money stops,
36:15
you stop. And the concept of passive income creating assets that generate revenue,
36:23
that has been the biggest lesson, And when you have an online business
36:28
like I do, that kind of is built into the business model, is
36:31
creating creating passive income. And it's never it's I can't tell you, and
36:39
I'm sure you know this when when you wake up in the morning and there's
36:45
just magic money that showed up from something that got sold somewhere, and that
36:49
happens with stock footage people, and that happens with residuals for actors, and
36:52
it's like mailbox money. But that passive income is addictive as well, and
36:58
it gives you so much freedom and so much power. And that's really what
37:00
it's about, is that the reason you're trying to create this stuff, you
37:05
know, passive income and do multiple streams of revenue is not just to get
37:09
rich, right, It's not a lifestyle you're trying to lead, right.
37:12
The idea is that you have now you can live the short time you have
37:16
on this planet doing the things you want to do instead of being a slave
37:21
for you know, the time that you have here and then retiring at sixty
37:23
and then you only have a couple of years left. Yeah. And I've
37:27
been I've been basically self employed most of my professional career, Like I said,
37:30
only had two full time jobs and all the other time I was always
37:32
self employed, but still employed. So there was a little bit more,
37:37
a little bit more control, but not but I was still it was still
37:40
dollars for hours, the dollars for hours, right, like make it make
37:45
a day, work a day, make a dollar. Yeah. And in
37:47
the people who are lack of a better term rich, it's they don't do
37:52
that. They understand how to leverage other people's money. They understand when I
37:57
mean other people's money meaning banks and you know and other things like that.
38:00
Uh. And they have money work for them, and they have assets that
38:04
are generate revenue for them all the time, so they they build money machines
38:08
like and that every revenue stream is a money machine. So that's kind of
38:12
like what I kind of try to explain that in film Entrepreneur. Rise of
38:15
the film Entrepreneur, where you're creating assets for your film, and those assets
38:20
are generated revenue for you, even when you're not physically working, physically selling.
38:25
It's constantly doing that. And the more of those you can have,
38:30
the better, you know, And it's so exactly one of those you can
38:32
have, the better, That's exactly it. That's that's the whole. You
38:35
get a few of those going and pretty soon you can choose to do what
38:38
you want in life, right, And that's why people who work in real
38:42
estate are so successful because they are able to leverage other people's money to purchase
38:49
to purchase a house or an apartment building that's cash flow positive, then they're
38:54
they're they're people. The people who are renting are paying for their asset and
38:59
maybe with appreciation they can actually get another loan, payback to the bank and
39:01
then all of a sudden, that asset they own one hundred percent and it's
39:05
just generating revenue for them. So it's basically a free cash machine, right
39:08
where films can be the same way too. Correct you create a film,
39:13
right are you now? Now you have multiple films out there creating multiple streams
39:16
of revenue and then on on the back of the film, like for for
39:21
this film, for instance, because of the subject matter, it really lends
39:23
itself well to multiple products. Right, So we can do a course based
39:28
on this film, we can do the book based on this film. We
39:30
can sell that all the raw interviews, you know, we can. There's
39:35
there's a lot of different ways to slice this thing. And you know,
39:37
for the first time ever, I'm like, oh my god, we can
39:40
actually make a living making a film. Stop it, stop the insanity.
39:46
Are you kidding? And you do that, right, you can really make
39:50
an actual living and pay your mortgage and everything. We'll be right back after
39:54
a word from our sponsor, h and now back to the show. But
40:02
the thing is that for people listening, you have to understand that you can't
40:06
think the way you were trained to think, that old model of I'm done
40:10
at post or I'll give it a movie to somebody else for that one revenue
40:14
stream, which is a distributor, that's it. If you think that way,
40:17
this doesn't work. It's not impossible because obviously some people do it.
40:22
But in today's world it's getting so much more difficult. There's so much more
40:27
competition. You know, I'm much more about creating those multiple revenue streams that
40:34
can kind of always constantly build making money, like and there's and there's there's
40:37
guys like I talked about in the book who've built empires like food Matters.
40:42
Uh, you know what's it called it? Fat, Sick and nearly dead.
40:46
Those guys, I mean, they've literally built multimillion dollar empires off of
40:52
you know, exactly, off of You're right, it's definitely doable, but
40:55
it really takes You've got to think that way, right, You have to
41:00
change your thinking from from you exactly. I'm an artist. As soon as
41:04
I'm done with this product, I'm either moving on to the next one or
41:08
or the money is just gonna come in magically because I'm going to make such
41:12
a great piece that people are just gonna give me money. Now, I
41:15
want to, I want to. I'm gonna do a little experiment with you.
41:17
Let's let's go back and do Let's go back to Finding Joe for a
41:20
minute. So let's say we're making Finding Joe today. Oh man, Okay,
41:24
So let's say today. No one's ever made Finding Joe, no one's
41:28
ever made a documentary about so this doesn't exist yet. So it's not a
41:30
the zeitgeist at all. And you say, I'm gonna make a documentary about
41:35
Joseph Campbell's work, and you shoot it Samway with the kids and the interviews
41:38
and everything. How would you position that film today? This is so great?
41:45
So so. Number one, I would I would know. I would
41:47
let the audience know and start building my email list from day one. I
41:51
would say, day one of production, I would have a website that said,
41:54
I'm world, Listen, world, I'm making this film by Joseph Campbell.
41:58
Here's like some here's like a little teaser. Please give me your email
42:01
address. I would start targeting that audience. Facebook, same thing. I
42:05
would start a Facebook group, target that audience. I want every Camel fan.
42:08
There are Joseph Campbell fans out there oh this day who don't know what
42:12
finding Joe is. They just don't know. So I would not I would
42:15
not let that happen. I would target this small audience. Number two,
42:19
the biggest, other, biggest mistake. I did not leverage the talent in
42:22
that film. I like Deepak was ready to go. He was like,
42:24
hey man, you want me to hit my millions of millions of people.
42:28
I was all used, you didn't do that. Yeah, I'm embarrass myself.
42:35
Oh so I didn't leverage the people that were in the film, right
42:37
and and so so this time, like I would leverage the hell out and
42:40
I'll be bugging the hell out of them. They're like, on this date,
42:44
I want you guys to send this tweet out, this Instagram post out,
42:46
Like, really leverage that and that's all free, Like you don't have
42:50
to pay any money for that. That's that's all free except for building a
42:53
website. Right then I would really get into the analytics of the of the
42:59
whole thing and start doing a b testing on different ads about you know that,
43:04
different trailers, right, I would start cutting different tailors and start testing
43:07
which one's working more, which one's getting more views, you know how,
43:10
and try to really get scientific about how to bring that audience in because you
43:17
know, with a very small budget, you can really target an audience,
43:21
develop some ads and just your ads now go out to just the people who
43:24
may buy. This is never happened before in history, so you can really
43:30
make each dollar count when it comes to selling a film or product online.
43:35
All right, So now you're leveraging. You're leveraging your ridiculous cast because it
43:38
was an amazing cast of people that you had that interviewed. It was really
43:42
amazing cast very high profile people and multiple like not just spiritual people. You
43:46
have athletes, Tony Hawk and a bunch of other guys in there. So
43:52
you could have easily leveraged that you didn't. I didn't know that you did.
43:57
And so now I'm gonna poke you because that has to I made.
44:00
Do you shoot? You should have? I mean, come on, right,
44:04
come on, like I would play artists back you were you now that
44:07
you're read in my mind, I'm an artist. I don't. I don't
44:08
do that kind of those things. Hey, look, we've all been there,
44:10
trust me, I've been I was there too long. But all right,
44:15
so now you have you have, you have the leverage of your of
44:17
your interviews. How would you package this differently? What ancillary product lines would
44:22
you create for fighting today? I would and all the other thing is that?
44:27
Okay? So for so for finding Joe, there would definitely be some
44:30
kind of some printed material like a workbook or a book or something that goes
44:35
along with that film that you can follow along. And it's a life lesson
44:37
man, there's like what is the hero? What is the journey of your
44:40
life? Like how can you map out your own life. I would attach
44:43
that to the film. I still really I would still really like to do
44:45
that. And then there's there's other ancillary products that people have already created,
44:51
right, some some people in the film already have heroes Journey workshops, which
44:53
I would attach to that film for sure. I would. I would release
44:58
all the interviews, just raw interviews, like as a package, the PDFs
45:01
of those interviews, Like I would bundle all that up and then you could
45:05
buy that for nine ninety nine or whatever. And then would you create possibly
45:08
an online course as well. I would create an online course if I were
45:14
doing it again. Yeah, right now, I would create an online course.
45:15
I think I think the ship has sailed on that one. Yeah,
45:19
of course, of course, so you create an online course for that now?
45:21
Would you also what other answer? Would there be any possibilities for T
45:25
shirts for hats because people this is that's a subject matter that people would buy,
45:30
like follow your bliss. I think you could get away with that,
45:32
like you could just get exactly you get. I actually didn't think about that
45:38
at the time. Like all these great logos and slogans and even the Joseph
45:42
Campbell Foundation who just gave me carte blanche on all his stuff. Yeah,
45:46
didn't really think about that until much later. But yes, I would create
45:50
some hats and I don't know if that would be a big money maker,
45:52
but just getting that out there in the world, and even though those things
45:57
might not make a lot of money, it's just a little bit here,
45:59
a little bit there, and getting the name the word out there is really
46:04
more important than the money you'll make on those little things. Could you create
46:07
an ecosystem? Could you build a business around this? So kind of like
46:12
what Food Matters did, right. Food Matters has a very big around finding
46:15
Joe, But this next film around me, Oh yeah all day. It's
46:20
like a no brain, not a no brainer, but it's like it is,
46:22
it really lends itself well to an ongoing business. There's a lot of
46:24
different things that are already coming up out of it. A lot of interviewees
46:29
that that I just didn't have time to do that would like to be in
46:31
the film. We could just keep we could just keep going on this one
46:35
for a long time. Great, So those are the so these lessons that
46:38
you've learned, I've never done that before, like going back to an original
46:43
film. Like, so, if we would take it today, What would
46:45
you do differently? That's actually really great because I think the answer is everything.
46:49
So and so you would have probably been able to make it for a
46:52
lot less. You would not have spent if you wouldn't have spent all the
46:53
money on the theatrical How much did a movie actually cost you? The production
46:58
budget was two hundred and give me a little more than two and fifty to
47:00
produce, edit and finish the film. So so for a quarter, meaning
47:04
so today you could probably make that for less. You can make that for
47:07
less, so you would be lower lower to get or it wouldn't take you
47:10
that long to get into the black. And man, I think it would
47:15
have been in today's world. You would have done very well. I think
47:17
I think I think it's done very, very very well. Yeah, I
47:21
can totally agree. Yeah, and me, oh, listen, listen.
47:25
If you read my book, you know, I had that whole chapter on
47:28
how I spent fifty grand on on that short film and released it on an
47:31
app because I was so cool, you know, And I made seven hundred
47:37
dollars on that release. So we've been we've all been there, doue,
47:42
we all done that. But it's been a very it's very interesting, very
47:45
very interesting on how how you would do it differently. Well, I'm glad
47:49
that the book has helped you in any way. It's helped you at all,
47:52
the film Entrepreneur book, because it sounds like you really are taking a
47:57
lot of those lessons that I put in the book and are applying now to
48:00
you. And it's really really one hundred percent there. I feel like that
48:04
was and that book. Actually I've been having those thoughts already because the people
48:08
I've been interviewing around the subject of money have all been saying very similar things.
48:14
But when I picked your book up, it was specific a film,
48:15
and it really solidified my belief that, oh my god, I just need
48:22
to change my thinking on this, like I gotta, I gotta view myself
48:25
differently, and and I did, and it was amazing. It is It
48:30
is a mindset shift. It really is a mind shift, mind shift,
48:34
and I can't tell you how important. And everyone listening, I want you
48:37
to be very park up here for a second and I think, and please
48:40
let me know how you feel about this as well. Changing your mindset it
48:45
is the thing to do in any aspect of your life and any part of
48:49
your journey. If you want to change it only will happen once you change
48:53
your perspective. It only happens when you change that mindset, when you get
48:57
out of that comfort zone or that little box that we have have if you
49:00
change the mindset of what you think is possible. Because like like Henry Ford
49:06
says, if you believe you can do it, or you don't, you
49:07
can't do it, You're right. And I've seen that happen even recently in
49:12
my life, where I like, oh, I can't do that. Oh
49:15
that's that's the top there, right, Like I'm only gonna I'm only gonna
49:17
get to this place. And guess what, that's the only place I could
49:21
got. It was that place. But the second you shifted the mindset a
49:23
bit, then all of a sudden it opened up more. And you're like,
49:27
wait, wait a minute, Is that it is all I had to
49:30
do? And I've known that on an intellectual standpoint for quite some time.
49:35
But changing the mindset is so so important. What do you think? Yeah,
49:38
it's one of those things that is simple but not easy. Right.
49:45
The idea of changing your mindset is simple, But if you've been in the
49:46
habit of thinking a certain way. It really takes a lot of work and
49:51
discipline on your part. You got to keep catching yourself. You got to
49:53
keep going, oh right, that's my old mindset. I got to do
49:55
something about that. We'll be right back after a word from our sponsor and
50:05
now back to the show. That's why, that's why it's hard to quit
50:08
smoking. That's why it's hard to quit drinking. Really, the simple answer
50:13
is just hey, quit stop, just quit smoking. But it's not that
50:15
easy, right, right, It's if you if you don't believe that it's
50:20
capable of being done, then it will never happen. Period. You know,
50:24
it's it's it's it's very good, right if you just need to you
50:30
need to get a little a certain a certain level of awareness that hey,
50:32
this thing is possible. I can actually make films and make a living doing
50:37
them. It's just gonna take you know, these steps, and you just
50:42
have to embrace that. Once once your mindset shifts in that way, you're
50:45
done. You're off to the races. You're done. It's over. And
50:47
that's the other thing people always say, like when I when I lay out,
50:52
sometimes I've had people, you know, you challenge me on the film
50:54
entrepreneur method, and they're like, well, you know, I you know,
50:58
this seems like a lot of work, Like, yeah, it is.
51:04
Is. It's gonna take you some time to build an audience. It's
51:07
gonna take you some The blueprint is like if I showed you blueprints to build
51:10
a skyscraper. It's there on paper. It's like it's like the construction guy
51:16
going, this seems like a lot of work. I'm like, yeah,
51:21
it is, but it's a complete it's a completely mind shift when everyone's everyboy's
51:23
told you no, no, all you gotta do is the hardest part is
51:25
making the movie, which is not honestly, it's kind of fun, like
51:30
yeah, yeah, it's hard work, like right now, it's a lot
51:30
of hard work too, and it's fun deal with marketing, but it's kind
51:34
of fun like I'm learning new things and you know, discovering new platforms and
51:37
meeting new people and the process is fun. No, there's no no.
51:43
I've I've always loved the business side. I've always loved the marketing and design
51:46
side of filmmaking. It's always been a it's a holistic ecosystem for me.
51:52
It's a you know, when I made when I made ego and desire.
51:55
I was thinking about the whole the whole plan. When I was doing it,
52:00
I was like, that's more that's fun. That's more fun for me,
52:02
right without question. Now, I'm gonna ask you a few questions,
52:07
ask all my guests, sir, what advice would you give a filmmaker trying
52:09
to break into the business today, just right now, if you're especially if
52:15
you're a young filmmaker and you're trying to break into the business. There's two
52:19
right. One is I guess it depends on which part of the business you're
52:22
after, But but you can you can make films wherever you are right now,
52:24
it's very easy to make films. Just just make films, man,
52:28
make as many films as you can. Learn the craft of filmmaking. That's
52:31
number one. Number two is which what I did, is that you can
52:35
also go to work making money doing you know, in films, you can
52:38
work as an assistant, you can work as a as a lower member in
52:44
a crew. You will learn so much. Man, there's things you will
52:49
never learn in film school. You will learn on a set. Ok.
52:52
That's just a really it's a really great way to get a free education or
52:57
get a paid education. Now, what is the lesson that took you the
53:00
longest to learn, whether in the film business or in life. Uh,
53:05
those are ego lessons, right, like the ego lesson, especially as a
53:09
commercial director. Right, you're always just right and your vision was always right.
53:15
It's great to collaborate, but but being able to let go of your
53:19
ego in a lot of situations and go, wait a minute, I might
53:21
not have the answer here. Let's let some other information in. And what
53:27
is the biggest fear you had to overcome to make uh, to make the
53:30
for your first film? God, that's a good question. I think it
53:38
was that, you know, just failing, right, Like the fear would
53:43
be, Man, what happens if I if I make a piece of crap
53:46
and nobody likes it? Yeah? That the feel of failure is the biggest
53:52
one. It's always it's always the biggest one. And three of your favorite
53:55
films of all time? Oh, man, just so many. I'll tell
54:00
you what. There's this one that I that I always go back to that
54:04
I love, and it is Stephen Chow's Kung Fu Hustle. I love Kung
54:07
Fu Hustle. So well crafted and so well done and so quirky and weird
54:12
and just I think that's just an awesome, just an amazing film. What
54:16
else? What are my go tos that I always like go back to.
54:22
There's so many, man, I always go back to Close Encounters Too.
54:27
Close Encounters was so well written and executed, like the like the writing on
54:31
that film. I think it's I think it's undappreciated. It's really just an
54:34
I think it's just an amazing, amazingly crafted film on every level. Yeah,
54:39
and uh, I don't know what would be number three? Oh,
54:45
oh, the Incredibles. It's Incredibles for sure. I love Incredibles. I
54:55
like the second one. I didn't mind the second one at all. Thought
54:57
the second one was Yeah, I didn't mind the second one, but the
54:59
first one I I thought was just that was another one that when I came
55:01
out, I was like, oh man, this is so well written,
55:04
directed, executed, like everything all the It's a seamless, wonderfully perfectly crafted
55:09
piece of art. Yes, without question. Now, where can people find
55:13
you and in the work you're doing? Let's see. So I am on
55:17
on Facebook, Pat Pat Solomon on Facebook, I'm on YouTube Patrick Solomon And
55:24
what is money is on Facebook? The new film. What is Money is
55:28
a group on Facebook? And when is that coming up? I have no
55:31
idea. So I'm a year into production. My my deadline to be done
55:39
with production was going to be this fall. We're going to try to release
55:44
earlier in the year. I don't know if that's going to happen now.
55:45
Like I was just about to shoot all my b roll when the COVID hit,
55:52
so and I still have a ton of b role to shoot. I
55:54
was basically almost all my interviews are shot, not all of them, but
55:57
most of them are shot. So just still trying to figure it out.
56:00
If anyone has any suggestions about shooting in the time of COVID, maybe if
56:05
you can do a show on that, I tune in. How do we
56:07
shoot? How are we going to go move forward? How we're going to
56:09
get a crew together? Got it? Got it well? Patrick Man,
56:14
Thank you so much for being on the show. It's been an absolute pleasure.
56:16
Your film touched me when it came out, and I'm so proud to
56:20
have it on IFHTV. So thank you for sharing Joseph Campbell's work to the
56:25
world end super stoked. I want to thank Patrick for coming on the show.
56:30
And dropping those knowledge bombs. If you have not seen Finding Joe,
56:36
it is a prerequisite for every storyteller, every filmmaker, every screenwriter to watch
56:42
this documentary. It is I just love, love, love this documentary and
56:45
I'm so honored to have Finding Joe available on Indie Film Hustle TV. If
56:51
you want to get links to anything we spoke about in this episode, including
56:53
how to watch this film, please head over to the show notes at Bulletproof
56:59
Screenwriting forward slash three sixty one. Thank you so much for listening to guys.
57:02
As always, keep on writing no matter what. I'll talk to you
57:07
soon. Thanks for listening to the Bulletproof Screenwriting podcast at Bulletproofscreenwriting dot tv.