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Closing the Book with Alyse and Robyn · Reclaiming Consciousness

• 0:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to Reclaiming Consciousness.
• 0:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Elise Bassine, trauma and breathwork expert, and creator of the Metamorphosis Method, the only methodology bridging the gap between spiritual healing and clinical trauma work.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_01: For many years, our consciousness has been hijacked by societal and cultural programming, religion, the media, and familial and ancestral trauma.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_01: In this podcast, you'll discover my unique perspective on trauma healing and how it is the gateway to fully reclaiming your consciousness.
• 0:33
  SPEAKER_01: You'll hear stories and teachings that expand your mind as you discover how every relationship challenge, business block, or limiting pattern is an invitation to reclaim the parts of your consciousness you unknowingly gave away.
• 0:46
  SPEAKER_01: Get ready to go deep.
• 0:47
  SPEAKER_01: Now let's dive in.
• 0:52
  SPEAKER_01: Hi everyone.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to the show.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: So this week we are closing the book on the Bewitch series.
• 1:00
  SPEAKER_01: And I have to say, I'm really happy to be closing the book on it, to be honest with you.
• 1:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I just want to say, you know, I appreciate everybody's comments and messages and questions and everything.
• 1:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's been something that I think is really important.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it'll continue to be really important.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it has sparked a conversation about so many different things, which you're going to hear us talk about on the episode.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: So on this episode, Robin and I are wrapping things up.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're talking about what we learned.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sharing the 11 patterns of manipulation that I tracked and how they relate to childhood relational trauma.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: Robin's talking about personality profiles and what we're noticing when we look at, you know, different, you know, narcissistic profiles and psychopathy and so forth.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it's really interesting just to kind of tie it all in a bow.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: And also I think it's it's really ignited some new projects for both Robin and I.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: And you will definitely be hearing more of the two of us podcasting together.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: I know that so many people who reached out said how much you love our dynamic and how great we are together.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_01: And I agree, I love Robin so much and I love podcasting with her.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we have so much to talk about when it comes to trauma and psychology and spirituality and consciousness, and we're going to be doing a lot more together.
• 2:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, without further ado, enjoy the episode.
• 2:32
  SPEAKER_01: Just a couple of things here.
• 2:34
  SPEAKER_01: The metamorphosis next round is coming at the end of May.
• 2:39
  SPEAKER_01: If you've never done the metamorphosis with me, now is your moment because this program is my favorite thing in the world.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: It's nothing short of life-changing.
• 2:50
  SPEAKER_01: I always say, worst case scenario, you leave with a wildly new and empowering perspective on why you do what you do and why your challenges are what they are.
• 3:00
  SPEAKER_01: That's worst case scenario, best case scenario, you create all of the tangible results that you are desiring at this moment in your life.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_01: And you will leave with a roadmap of how to navigate triggers, challenges, and problems moving forward.
• 3:17
  SPEAKER_01: And also another really cool thing is my program, The Mini Morphosis, which is a mini version of the metamorphosis, essentially, where you learn my inner child healing process.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: You learn how to pinpoint your core wound and dissolve it, which to me, if you know that, you just bypassed years of therapy, working with a hundred different healers, going to Peru to do ayahuasca, all the things.
• 3:45
  SPEAKER_01: If you just learn how to pinpoint and dissolve your core wound, you don't need any of that other stuff, in my opinion.
• 3:51
  SPEAKER_01: So it makes things a lot quicker, a lot faster, and a lot more efficient for you to create what you desire in your life and grow and expand without any roadblocks.
• 4:03
  SPEAKER_01: So the mini morphosis right now, if you purchase it and you can purchase it for only$33 when you use the code HEAL at checkout, H-E-A-L.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm going to be doing a live QA for everyone who purchases the Metamorphosis now and anyone who's purchased it this year in 2025.
• 4:24
  SPEAKER_01: When you purchase, you will be getting more details about the live QA.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_01: So not only will you get access to the digital program, which is life-changing, but you will have an opportunity to get on a live call with me and ask me how to apply the information to your specific scenario and situation in your life.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_01: So that is pretty priceless.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_01: If when you get on that call and you bring your stuff forward, your mind will be blown and your perspective will be changed for good.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: So I definitely would recommend not missing out on that.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_01: We will put the link for the mini morphosis below.
• 5:01
  SPEAKER_01: And then I will be announcing the date of the QA in the next week or so.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here and thank you for your support with the Bewitched series.
• 5:11
  SPEAKER_01: We are closing the book this week, and then we will be resuming the podcast how it was before.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I don't know about how it was before, probably better than before.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_01: So have a great weekend.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sending you all lots of love and enjoy the episode.
• 5:30
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, everyone.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome back to our final wrap-up episode of the Bewitched series.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_01: I am here with Robin.
• 5:42
  SPEAKER_01: Hi, Robin.
• 5:43
  SPEAKER_01: Hi.
• 5:44
  SPEAKER_01: And just like that, we're on the last one.
• 5:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_01: So we've had our final interview with Balgit.
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_01: And now we are reflecting and just kind of tying it all in a bow and talking about where we go from here, which I'm really excited about.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I like to think that this is the grand finale of the first season because I think that we've got some stuff coming up that everyone is very excited about.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_00: But before we do that, about I don't know, three or four weeks ago, I was talking to several people and they were like, we're just waiting for Thursdays.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_00: It was like being in the 90s again and waiting for friends and ER and and uh those musty TV shows on Thursday night.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, I've sort of shifted on my end to kind of talking about it like a friend style.
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_00: And I thought the uh title for this episode could be the one where we close the book.
• 6:39
  SPEAKER_00: How's that sound?
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 6:42
  SPEAKER_00: That's perfect.
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking to get us started.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why don't we do a lightning round?
• 6:48
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 6:49
  SPEAKER_00: Sound good?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, that sounds good.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: First one one word to describe how we were each feeling headed into this finale.
• 6:57
  SPEAKER_00: What's one word for you?
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_00: Excited.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: Do you want me to say more?
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_00: I mean you could, but that's good.
• 7:03
  SPEAKER_00: Because it was just one word and it's lightning round, but excited.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: Mine was mine was a little squirrely.
• 7:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's some things that we need still need to say today.
• 7:14
  SPEAKER_00: Oh yes, we're gonna say them.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, we are.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_00: So in the event that anyone would think that we're going to take this lightly, uh, please.
• 7:23
  unknown: Please don't.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_00: Please don't.
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_00: All right.
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_00: Uh what's one thing you learned about yourself during season one?
• 7:33
  SPEAKER_01: One thing I learned about myself was, you know, I kind of knew that I was like uh sarcastic and stuff, but I just kind of like I don't know that I had the opportunity on the podcast yet to bring out my like critical pilly East Coast Jew like sarcasm and like cutting humor.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: And I really feel like I got to that got to have a moment or a few moments, and I enjoyed it so well, I quite enjoyed it.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: And if there could be two different personalities, your East Coast Jewish girl from Jersey uh humor, and then my Midwest, yeah, I don't even know what to call me.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_00: Um, but I have that sharp tongue as well.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that was actually fun because that's actually who I am most of the time.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that for me, one of the things that I learned is that where I feel most comfortable is if I could be myself in every arena, including this one.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_00: So, you know, there's something to be said for just being yourself.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I agree with that.
• 8:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I, you know, I think I had moments of like, oh, was that too harsh or whatever?
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_01: But then I was like, no, that's just me.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's how I am.
• 8:53
  SPEAKER_01: And also, like, I think making fun of things is a way that I think I process them and make connections.
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: And also, you know, we talked about laughing as part of the process.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: So for sure.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: It's laughter is medicine, but also uh sarcasm and um snarkiness is too, I think.
• 9:13
  SPEAKER_00: For sure, yeah.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_00: Which episode cracked you wide open?
• 9:19
  SPEAKER_01: I think Audrey's.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_01: That one was like, I don't know, there was something.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, obviously, with everything that was shared, but also just like the way she kind of like went through everything, I felt was really yeah.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like she really like told a story in a way that um just felt like I was kind of there every step of the way.
• 9:39
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know how to describe it, because not like I wasn't there every step of the way with everyone else, but yeah, it just felt really deep.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: It was deep.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_00: You know, for me, it was Brenda's episode because she was there at the end in Croatia.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_00: In fact, the last time I saw her before we got back from everything was at the airport in, I don't remember, like Frankfurt or something like that.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_00: But going through that, her experience really helped me process some things that I hadn't yet from that particular leg of the trip.
• 10:11
  SPEAKER_00: So that was an interesting thing.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: And then I'll say too, Elise, that the other thing that cracked me wide open is how people stepped forward.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: Elizabeth stepped forward and Belgit stepped forward.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_00: That was something that we hadn't planned on or expected or anything.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_00: But for them to step forward and really take a stand for their perspectives on this important conversation, that really cracked me wide open.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: It made me realize how important this is.
• 10:37
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I agree with that.
• 10:39
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that just hearing their perspectives also cracked me wide open.
• 10:45
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I agree.
• 10:46
  SPEAKER_00: What surprised you the most?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: I think just like the amount of people that reached out, I just wasn't necessarily expecting it.
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: Not that I wasn't expecting people to reach out, but just the amount of people and just how it seemed to have such a huge impact, I think was not something I was necessarily expecting.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that I've been working my whole career to get to a point where I can lead a conversation.
• 11:12
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not to say I haven't led conversations in the past, but this one feels like an inflection point to me.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_00: And when I was getting feedback from the community and still getting feedback from our community, whether it's in private messages or Facebook posts or whatever, that's something that I wouldn't say it took me by surprise, but I was surprised and delighted by it because it tells me that we have our finger on the pulse of something very important.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that that is the thing that I have always been looking for, I think, in my in my work.
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_00: Not that I would have wanted to go through this in order to get there.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: However, I think there is something just so real about this conversation that to get that reflection back from the community is was very surprising and lovely.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_01: I agree.
• 11:56
  SPEAKER_00: What other lightning round question do you want to ask?
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_00: And then we'll hop into what we're gonna do.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_01: I guess the last one maybe would be like, what are you most excited about moving forward?
• 12:08
  SPEAKER_00: Well, what I'm excited about is that it seems like every step of the way we've been guided, and the next thing opens from the last thing.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_00: And so I think it was after Elizabeth's debrief when we kind of started talking about like what is next for this?
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: We've been talking about it all along, but starting to conceptualize what that is.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_00: And I know one of the things I'm most excited about it is a masterclass series from many of the women who have contributed to this first season of Bewitched, but particularly from you and Elizabeth and Louisa and Belgit and me.
• 12:42
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's gonna be a big thing because that's gonna be like to me the conversation changer around what's next for our community and beginning to develop something that standards and ethics that are in alignment with what we're here to do.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: That's what I'm most excited about too, because I really do love this conversation about like what it means to really work with people in a really high-level way and have standards for that.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_01: I love that conversation.
• 13:11
  SPEAKER_00: So I do too.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_00: Honestly, I can't wait for you to start talking about mind control, trauma-based mind control and recovery from that, because you are the leading expert on that.
• 13:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_00: IMO.
• 13:25
  SPEAKER_00: I have been studying that for quite some time.
• 13:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, you have.
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I can't wait.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_00: That's the other thing I'm excited for.
• 13:33
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so let's go ahead and dive in.
• 13:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to take us all the way back to the very, very beginning, which was even like in January and even before that, when we were having the conversations about even doing this.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_00: So can you just remind us?
• 13:45
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll do the same thing.
• 13:46
  SPEAKER_00: Why, why did you want to do this podcast series to begin with?
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I felt like I had to.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_01: To me, it felt like if I didn't talk about this, I would be hiding something.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_01: So that's that for me was why.
• 14:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it just felt I felt this.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know how to describe it.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_01: It's just like I had to, like I had to say it because to me, it just felt it needed to be something that people knew about me, especially if you're listening to me as like a teacher and a leader and you listen to my podcast.
• 14:18
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt weird for me to not say it.
• 14:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I also obviously at the time I didn't realize how many people were we were gonna interview.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: I thought I thought initially it was gonna be like four or five people.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, at that point, I was just like, this has to be a conversation, and that's where it started.
• 14:38
  SPEAKER_01: And I also did not think that you were gonna be ready to do it either.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the other piece because I remember we were talking in like the very beginning of January, and I was just basically like, listen, I have to do this.
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I and I didn't know where it was gonna go, but I just wanted to tell you that I had to do it, and then you were just like, Okay, I'm in, and I'm like, Are you sure?
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_01: And you were like, Yes.
• 15:02
  SPEAKER_00: So well, you're the fire starter, yes.
• 15:07
  SPEAKER_00: And when you came to me with that, because we had been talking about it previously, and I was still processing and everything, but there are a couple of the things that I know for sure is that you're never gonna be fully ready for anything, especially for something like this.
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_00: And I felt like that I have a story that nobody else can tell.
• 15:26
  SPEAKER_00: And as a writer, as an author, as a as a teacher, as a leader, I felt like this is a story that a lot of people need to hear.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: Not just mine, but everybody's, particularly for me, though, because my book is coming.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_00: That's the next thing I'm working on.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_00: But uh, this is a story that needed to be told.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm the only one who can tell it.
• 15:46
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm grateful for having this platform to be able to start that conversation and to, you know, the resonance that we've had with people, with our other guests, with the people in our communities who have come forward has just been incredible.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_00: So that's why, and I'm glad I did it.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, we had some shaky knees and had to remember, we had to record the first couple of sessions again.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I tried to record mine, and afterwards you were so sweet, and you were like, mm-hmm.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: So between you and Barb listening and and giving feedback and everything, then it was really, let's dial this in and give her a name and rename the uh locations and not to protect her reputation, but just to protect the process and to create a safe healing space for everybody.
• 16:33
  SPEAKER_00: And then away we went.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it was interesting because I had never necessarily like gotten to that point with anything else before where I'm like, we need to re-record this, but I'm glad that we did.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: It just felt like we really needed to like settle into the like what it really was.
• 16:51
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it just took a little bit of time to find that.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we gradually found the groove in everything as we went forward.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: I think so too.
• 17:01
  SPEAKER_00: I think too that with podcasting, we do so much off the cuff.
• 17:05
  SPEAKER_00: And that's one of the things I love about podcasting.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: But this actually, this series took a lot more planfulness and executive functioning than I think I'm used to dealing with or having to invoke in my life.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: But I'm really glad because I it has created some being strategic and being thoughtful and being fine mindful in order to see the kind of the through lines and detect the patterns that we're gonna be talking about in a little bit as well.
• 17:29
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, for sure.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think the personal cost of would have been of not telling the story?
• 17:35
  SPEAKER_01: I think that just keeping something hidden, it's always gonna come out at a certain point, you know?
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that it might have come out in a different way.
• 17:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I think I know for me it would have felt wrong.
• 17:47
  SPEAKER_01: It wouldn't have felt authentic to me.
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: So I think like the cost might have been authenticity, I guess.
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_00: I think that one of the reasons that I wanted to come forward anyway is because, you know, after I got back, I had several conversations with Barb about this whole situation.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that she kept on coming back to was as, you know, with my PhD in psychology, with the code of ethics that I have promised to uphold and my promise to do no harm and um to share information when I know it's keeping it from other people could be harmful.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_00: I think that that's the thing that really tipped me over the edge as a professional and ethical responsibility to bring this forward.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, that too, for sure.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_01: I think that was something that we've talked about.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_01: Like I definitely struggled with for a while, you know, before even this podcast was on the table, was just like what to do about that.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I felt that way too.
• 18:44
  SPEAKER_01: And I wasn't sure what to do about it, honestly.
• 18:47
  SPEAKER_01: And it was something that I struggled with for a long time.
• 18:50
  SPEAKER_00: I think with ethics, it's something that we keep it in our bones, but it's not something first we had to wake up to what was going on and then really look at what harm is this person causing, and can we prevent this kind of harm from happening to ourselves again and to other people?
• 19:06
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the being benevolent and keeping top of mind to do no harm as our promise.
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_00: So I think that ultimately that's where I'm coming from, and I know you are too.
• 19:17
  SPEAKER_00: And I know all of our guests who came on the podcast were as well.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_00: Benevolence, do no harm and uh create a new way forward.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 19:25
  SPEAKER_00: All right, my dear.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_00: Our pattern seeker is in the house.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: Are you ready to go?
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, I'm ready.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_00: I'm really excited, actually.
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_00: I am too, because one of the things I love about Elise is that she is like the pattern finder extraordinary.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_00: So um I'm gonna hand it over to you and just and I'll pop in, of course, because I always have an opinion on something, but any patterns, themes, through lines, and I'll just ask the question to start with what are some of the patterns that you saw emerging across all of the stories?
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna go through the patterns that I tracked, and I'm gonna, I know there was some times where I got really angry, which I think everyone thought was funny when like you would like see me like being ready to like jump through the screen.
• 20:12
  SPEAKER_01: Once I started seeing the same thing happen through all the stories, and that I think was something that was, I don't want to say surprising, but even when I think about the difference between, for example, like somebody like Nicole and somebody like Andrea, right?
• 20:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like just personality-wise, they're so different, right?
• 20:29
  SPEAKER_01: But we still saw the same patterns across their stories, you know, which that to me, I find to be so fascinating because it's like, you know, a lot of times when I talk about trauma, we really want to understand that it's about perception, right?
• 20:44
  SPEAKER_01: And the way that that person perceives a situation.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_01: However, even when we're looking at two people who objectively, from my mind, have two very different lenses of perception, are actually experiencing very similar things.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_01: And that's where I feel like we're kind of putting together a roadmap in a sense of like the way that people can be manipulated and the way that certain wounds or soft spots for people can be exploited.
• 21:19
  SPEAKER_00: Exploited, yeah, exploited, manipulated, taken advantage of.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I want to say too that at this point, this conversation isn't just about Betty, unless we say everybody's got a Betty, which was one of the things that we heard over and over again, even if they didn't work with this particular person, there's somebody in their lives, or they know somebody they've had a boss or a boyfriend or whatever who've had some of these characteristics.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_00: And so, this to me, when we talk about healing the healers, when we talk about helping people move through trauma, these are the kind of the signs and the patterns that show up over and over again.
• 21:56
  SPEAKER_00: This was a microcosm here on Bewitched.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's part of a bigger conversation and a bigger problem, I'll say, that we're having right now in the on the planet.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_01: And also if we can be aware of these and then also start to heal the reason why you think this is okay in the first place, then we can slowly no longer be available for this type of relating.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_01: So the first one is the trauma bond, which I know we talked about a lot.
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_01: So this is creating the fictional trauma story to bond with you, and then positions herself as the rescuer and making you dependent on her.
• 22:42
  SPEAKER_01: So, you know, these are the things we saw where it was like, oh, in a past life, your husband like killed you or whatever, or, you know, your mom was in a cult.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_01: And it's like these things that she's supposedly saying as being like psychic or whatever, which we all know is a lie.
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_01: And then trying to use that as a way to like traumatize you.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_01: And then she's the one who's gonna help you with it.
• 23:11
  SPEAKER_01: And we saw this for every single person.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_00: But I will say that the exploitation of a trauma necessitates that there's already a trauma there to begin with.
• 23:24
  SPEAKER_00: Otherwise, there already is a charge around something that is close enough to whatever she's talking about that it's going to uh trigger the same neuropathways that were initially activated by the trauma itself.
• 23:38
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 23:39
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: So it's not like you're saying something random, like, you know, because if something's so random that it's like not anything that would trigger you, then you're not gonna have the same response.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:50
  SPEAKER_01: You know, if I was like, oh, your dad fell off a skyscraper or whatever, and it's like, you're like, what?
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_01: That wouldn't trigger you.
• 23:58
  SPEAKER_01: But if it was like close enough to whatever she perceived as your wounding, but it was like almost worse or exaggerated in some way, then it really does trigger you.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_01: So the point of these fictional stories was to trigger a trauma response so that she could then position herself as like you needing her.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she's the only one who could help you process this trauma, which we all know was bullshit because she didn't know how to help anybody with trauma.
• 24:28
  SPEAKER_01: She only decided she could do that after she met me.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: That's another story.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 24:34
  SPEAKER_00: We were listening to Brenda's episode kind of simultaneously.
• 24:38
  SPEAKER_00: We were texting back and forth, and you should see.
• 24:40
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of want to pull that up.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: What did you write in here?
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it just like became clear to me because obviously we've talked about like the copying, right?
• 24:50
  SPEAKER_01: And that's another pattern where she like copied off of everybody.
• 24:54
  SPEAKER_01: But like I didn't realize to the extent that it happened with me until I listened to Brenda's episode.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_01: And Brenda at one point was like telling like the timeline of all these different things that she propagated herself as like a quote unquote expert in, right?
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Oh, yeah, first it was like some MLM crap, then it was like real estate, then it was like money.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, Yeah, and then in 2020, it was trauma.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, ding, ding, ding.
• 25:24
  SPEAKER_01: All these bells rang because 2020 is when I started working with her.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_00: Can I quote you on your text message?
• 25:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_00: You guys, she she texted me, OMG.
• 25:38
  SPEAKER_00: I just realized something after listening to Brenda's episode.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_00: This bitch started talking about trauma only after she met me.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I was I was mad.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I just like realized, like, I can't like I knew because we've seen it with everybody where she like definitely outright copied their stuff, but I didn't realize that it wasn't until then that she started saying that she like did trauma with people.
• 26:06
  SPEAKER_01: That was just mind-blowing to me because I think at that point in my business, I would have thought she knew so much more than me or whatever that like I wouldn't even have thought of that.
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: But the fact that it was happening like from the very beginning just kind of like blew my mind.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_01: This isn't just like a little bit of copying.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: This is like literally bringing people in because you want to copy them.
• 26:29
  SPEAKER_01: It just has a different flavor to it.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_00: Creating a trauma bond is one of the biggest or one of the primary patterns, we'll say, emerged.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I, yeah, I agree with that.
• 26:40
  SPEAKER_00: I was thinking back to actually, my sister is one of our top podcast listeners.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_00: She's like the connoisseur, she's giving the rock star hand gesture right now.
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_00: She said, She was reminding me of Gia's episode right in Santa Fe when it was revealed to her unsolicited that her partner was not her partner.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that wail that that sob that emerged from the core of Gia was so pronounced and so intense.
• 27:11
  SPEAKER_00: And then on the other side of it, Gia's description of, you know, being soothed by Betty and it's okay and reassured and everything.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, it's that kind of energy that we're looking at when we talk about trauma bond.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 27:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next one I have is using the community as bait.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: That was one of the things I think that every single person said was the allure of the powerful women in the community that she kind of like used as a point of like attraction because everybody was like, even when there was something that happened that felt wrong to them, they were like, Well, there's all of these amazing women in this community that are like supposedly doing really well.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_01: So it must be me, you know?
• 27:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that was the the way that a lot of people ended up gaslighting themselves because she ended up, not ended up, but she had this community that everybody was like, all of these women here are so amazing.
• 28:11
  SPEAKER_01: So that was definitely the other one, too, is like she made sure that she had this certain type of person in her community so that people would be attracted to it.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_00: As you were talking about her starting to work with trauma after you came on board, when I first came on board, you know, Elizabeth had sort of started stepping away from any of the group stuff or anything like that.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_00: She was in the community, but I remember being in some of her early groups and thinking, this doesn't seem to be the caliber of people.
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_00: Not that there was anything wrong with them.
• 28:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm just saying, like, I'm used to being with, and you know, I work with accomplished and intuitive women.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_00: And so it seems to me that everyone started coming in after I came in and for some reason, then decided that that would be a good target for her, would be people like me, because that's where I found all my people, right?
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_00: And if we look at you guys, you guys and all of us from a personality perspective, we all track intuitive, intelligent, educated, uh, successful.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_00: Like all of those things began coalescing after and around the time I really started fully engaging in her work.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, totally.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: And, you know, like I said, for me, it was huge because I was so early on in business that it like it made such a huge impact on me to think that she thought that I was one of you.
• 29:39
  SPEAKER_01: Like it was like you and Baljit.
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_01: There was a bunch of other women at the time in that group who, from my lens, seemed like they were really successful and on like a different level than me.
• 29:51
  SPEAKER_01: Whether they were or not, I don't know.
• 29:54
  SPEAKER_01: But that's what it felt like.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or that was like the energy that she held around it too.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_01: And like for me to think that she thought that I was like one of them, that really changed things for me.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_01: Like it really like led me to see myself in a different way.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_01: And regardless of whatever her, it just like that was really important, you know?
• 30:18
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people said the same thing.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so like the snake bite, and then the it's like this emotional whiplash, right?
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: So it's like the sh the snake bite, whether it's like a private shaming or public shaming.
• 30:32
  SPEAKER_01: And then all of a sudden, in the snap of a finger, she's like, Oh, honey, how are you?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: It creates that keeping you off balance and also like not knowing what to expect.
• 30:44
  SPEAKER_01: Also, when we look at to bring it back to trauma-based mind control, when we look at what really creates trauma for people and creates um a level of like disassociation or constant fear, is not knowing what to expect, right?
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_01: So, especially if you even grew up in a home where you had a parent who was volatile and you never knew what version you were gonna get, it's like torture in a sense, because it's like I never can relax because I never know what's gonna happen.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_01: And that was the energy that was created in those interactions, is whether you're getting on a call, whether you're leaving a message or you're in a group, you do not know if you're going to get attacked or if you're gonna get like the sweet whatever version.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_01: That's a big pattern when it comes to traumatizing people and making them susceptible to programming.
• 31:42
  SPEAKER_01: Next one.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: The confusion matrix thing creates confusion by denying things that she said, or having you not be able to find links and then blaming you for asking a question.
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: Or there was a lot of people who said that like they would get on a call with her and she would say, Okay, you're gonna do this.
• 32:03
  SPEAKER_01: This is the plan.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: And then they would get back on the next call.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: She would be like, Why are you doing that?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is the dumbest thing I ever heard.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_01: And they're like, Well, you told me to do this.
• 32:12
  SPEAKER_01: And she's like, I never told you to do that.
• 32:14
  SPEAKER_01: So that type of thing, causing that confusion matrix, and then also the confusion of like never knowing where anything is.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: But then if you ask, she's like, How can I work with people who don't lead themselves?
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: But like, she's actually the one who doesn't even have a fucking course platform.
• 32:33
  SPEAKER_00: Like well, what you're talking about between the uncertainty and then the confusion matrix is we can kind of anchor that into gaslighting for one thing, in terms of uh not being able to trust your intuition, questioning everything.
• 32:50
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I worked with somebody a while ago who right before her call, I felt her get really nervous, really, really nervous.
• 32:58
  SPEAKER_00: And she had worked with Betty previously.
• 33:01
  SPEAKER_00: And when she got on her call, I asked her, I said, you know, what's going on?
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_00: And she shared with me that she was worried about being on at the right time because there was a one time where she had the right time and Betty had the wrong time or something, and it became this huge thing.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: But we see that lasting trauma showing up.
• 33:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's generalized them across situations, even if it's a different person, it's situational.
• 33:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's gonna be around being on time or being on the right time or whatever it is, just in the act of living, that is going to bump up against the confusion and the uncertainty programs that are that are sitting in there in the nervous system.
• 33:39
  SPEAKER_00: A hundred percent.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: I was just remembering about how, because I shared an assistant with her for a while, or not like shared, but you know, you had the same, so did I.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember when you booked a call with her, there was never like a link, like nothing was like clear.
• 33:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I remember I used to ask my assistant to get the link for me because she could go because she worked for her.
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_01: Because I was like, you never knew, like you could never easily find anything.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_01: There was no systems, like it's just again, what I don't get it.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: So then the telepathy thing.
• 34:14
  SPEAKER_01: So this was either false telepathy or it was like accessing your consciousness without permission.
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_01: So, like the telepathic phone call, but really it was like more of like a mind control thing.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then it was kind of like making you think, oh, I must be right that I'm like thinking about this thing because she was telepathically calling me, but it was really her like seeding that into your brain that you should do this thing.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it occurred to me that in her private coaching programs, she always had a weekly distance energy work sort of built into the program at no extra charge, of course.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_00: That was free.
• 34:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I do that too, but with of course benevolence in mind.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_00: But I was thinking today about how that could be used for good or for nefarious purposes.
• 35:07
  SPEAKER_00: And if she's got access, if I'm giving her access to my business, the energetics of my business, the energetics of my bank account, my energetics on a weekly basis, then who's to say, you know, what kinds of energies she was pumping in there, unbeknownst to me.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, for sure.
• 35:24
  SPEAKER_00: Because we make the assumption, those of us who are benevolent and uh believe in the goodwill of people believe that she was benevolent up until the point where we realize that she was not.
• 35:36
  SPEAKER_00: We wouldn't expect that.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_01: But um by the way, I don't know if I'm one of those people that believes she was benevolent until she wasn't.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if that's a whole other conversation, but I don't think I believe that.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: I'll be honest with you.
• 35:50
  SPEAKER_00: You don't believe that she was, or you don't believe that you believed that she was.
• 35:54
  SPEAKER_00: I don't believe that she was.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I believed that she was.
• 35:59
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, me too.
• 36:01
  SPEAKER_01: Because I remember how like some of the women were saying how earlier on she was like different or whatever.
• 36:10
  SPEAKER_01: I don't think that she not that I'm saying they're wrong, because I I know that was their experience, but I don't believe that there was a point that she was truly benevolent.
• 36:21
  SPEAKER_01: Agree.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: That probably is.
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_00: Stay tuned for season two.
• 36:25
  SPEAKER_00: Or actually, it's gonna be in the personality.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_00: We're gonna talk about personalities here in a little bit.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_01: So oh, the isolation tactics.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: So driving wedges between you and the people closest to you.
• 36:35
  SPEAKER_00: And I think everybody pretty much had that.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_00: So isolation, alienation, dismantling the support systems, friends, families, even other mentors were being positioned as dangerous.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's for your own good.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_00: You need to know this.
• 36:52
  SPEAKER_00: It's for your own good.
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, you can only trust me.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_00: I never heard that, but what I did hear a lot, and maybe you did too, is I have your back.
• 37:01
  SPEAKER_00: I have your back.
• 37:02
  SPEAKER_00: And that's classic to me.
• 37:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's classic grooming behavior.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know about how you feel about that.
• 37:06
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:07
  SPEAKER_01: Well, also the other thing that's very confusing about that is I know you and I both experienced times where she actually did have our back.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 37:14
  SPEAKER_01: She laid the foundation to make us really feel like she did, because there were moments, like I remember in the beginning of my business, I went through some like challenging things with clients.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_01: Because of where I was in my business, it shook me up a lot.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 37:29
  SPEAKER_01: Now it probably wouldn't the same way, but it was the first time I experienced some of these things.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I was very shaken up.
• 37:37
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like ride or die for me.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like she was like so team elise that made me feel like so like validated and like I didn't do anything wrong.
• 37:49
  SPEAKER_01: So she really like laid the groundwork for that.
• 37:52
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_00: And I think so too.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_00: And it makes me wonder because when you're activated and you're in trauma, even if it's not coming from her, then bringing through the I'm your ride or die, I've got your back during those stressful times also creates a trauma bond or strengthens it a hundred percent.
• 38:15
  SPEAKER_00: Whether or not she caused the initiation of it, the initiation of the activation or the stress that she was there in it, uh, I think was well, obviously was purposeful.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: Definitely.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I think we've heard from almost everybody that she tried to drive a wedge between them and the people closest to them.
• 38:34
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, for sure.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_01: And honestly, like I think so many people have either been in a relationship with a narcissist or at least someone with narcissistic tendencies, or at least know somebody that has, and that's like the boyfriend who makes you stop talking to all your friends.
• 38:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like we've all, we've all experienced that or had a friend who had that or whatever.
• 38:55
  SPEAKER_01: So that is like classic narcissistic behavior.
• 38:59
  SPEAKER_00: What about loyalty?
• 39:01
  SPEAKER_00: Do you feel like loyalty got weaponized?
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_00: Us being loyal to her, her being loyal to us.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, us being loyal to her, loyal to the community, loyal to the, I'm using air quotes here, mission.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_01: Well, yeah, because I feel like there was this tactic that she would use all the time, which was like, you are not showing up for yourself if you don't do this thing.
• 39:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like that was like the way that all the retreats were framed of like, oh, well, she's too scared or she's not showing up for her mission or whatever.
• 39:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it was like, that was the way that she manipulated you into doing the thing.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_01: So yeah, I think that was definitely used for sure.
• 39:39
  SPEAKER_01: Loyalty to your loyalty to your business.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 39:43
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 39:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then the next one I have is the the projection of copying your ideas and then accuses you of copying off of her, which I think we saw with every single person.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not even gonna say anything else about that because well, I'm gonna call that something around like co-opting your personal power, like siphoning your energy.
• 40:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 40:06
  SPEAKER_00: Because one of the things that I've said over and over again is that what I have come to realize is that she is a replicator, not a creator.
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_00: So the replicators simply cannot create, they have to only iterate on somebody else's idea or somebody else's program or whatever it is we're talking about.
• 40:25
  SPEAKER_00: So that I think we saw over and over again.
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_00: But it really to me, it's around that accessing and siphoning energy, personal power, intellect, creativity.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_00: Over on uh the crossover episode with Barb on Two Strings on the Farm, we talked about intellectual rape, basically.
• 40:43
  SPEAKER_01: To me, this is classic gaslighting.
• 40:46
  SPEAKER_01: Because when I think of gaslighting, I think a lot of people use this term wrong.
• 40:50
  SPEAKER_01: And in my eyes, I think gaslighting is when you blame someone for doing the thing that you're doing, right?
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: To me, that's what it is.
• 40:59
  SPEAKER_01: This is actually gaslighting because it's like, I'm gonna copy off of you and then I'm gonna accuse you of copying.
• 41:05
  SPEAKER_01: That's an aspect of it.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: Cause I think the greater aspect too is the energy siphoning, right?
• 41:10
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think everybody that she got close to, she wanted to siphon energy off of.
• 41:14
  SPEAKER_01: But I think if we're looking at this in the greater, grander scheme of like patterns of manipulation relating to a narcissist.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: And also when we look at in the world, what we see like on the world stage is a lot of times you'll see the person who or the group of people who did the thing, they're blaming the other group for doing it.
• 41:35
  SPEAKER_01: And that's like a classic, classic.
• 41:37
  SPEAKER_01: We see that all the time.
• 41:39
  SPEAKER_01: And this is exactly the same thing.
• 41:41
  SPEAKER_01: So she would blame you for the thing she was doing to you.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_00: And then say, don't gaslight me.
• 41:49
  SPEAKER_00: I was being gaslit.
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: Were you, Betty?
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_01: Were you really being gaslit?
• 41:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 41:54
  unknown: Really?
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: Okay.
• 41:55
  SPEAKER_01: So the next one is banishing anyone who disagreed or and creating the fear of being ostracized.
• 42:04
  SPEAKER_01: So basically, it was like anyone who she thought could potentially disagree or was about to disagree, she would immediately make them into the enemy and then banish them.
• 42:16
  SPEAKER_01: So what that did is it immediately stopped anyone who was going to question or oppose her and potentially make anyone else see the light.
• 42:26
  SPEAKER_01: And then it also created the fear of getting banished or ostracized because you don't want to lose this community of women that you have.
• 42:35
  SPEAKER_01: So that's multifaceted too, because like the constantly kicking people out of the group creates that fear.
• 42:42
  SPEAKER_01: But then also it's like, who are we kicking out?
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: The people who are potentially going to challenge her and call her out.
• 42:50
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the next one.
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then this one making you feel special, like she's the only one who understands and values her, like kind of creating this unique dependency on her.
• 43:02
  SPEAKER_01: And I think a lot of people said this.
• 43:04
  SPEAKER_01: And we saw this come up in different ways, right?
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_01: For me, I remember the way that she did this was like I was talking about like putting me in the high-level group, like making me an Akashic Records teacher when I never fucking did her.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_01: That made no sense.
• 43:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like doing things to make me feel special.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_01: And I know so many people said that.
• 43:24
  SPEAKER_00: I want to ask you something about the Santa Fe retreat because there was about a half an hour when we were on a hike where you weren't feeling well.
• 43:33
  SPEAKER_00: And she decided that she would stay behind with you and really walk with you the whole way.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_00: And she sent me ahead with everyone else.
• 43:41
  SPEAKER_00: Can you just talk us through that a little bit in terms of the making to feel special, but also isolating you from others?
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: Oh man, this was like okay, this was a tough one because she really went into like my mom stuff here.
• 43:59
  SPEAKER_01: And There was a lot of um at the time it felt very healing in a lot of ways.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_01: And now looking back, I think there's just a lot of awareness on the things that I needed that I didn't get growing up and really how she like played into that.
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_01: So, first of all, if you guys don't know this about me, I get nausea and vertigo really bad, especially um when I'm in like high elevation or places where I'm like in the mountains and stuff.
• 44:27
  SPEAKER_01: Sometimes it'll get really bad where like I have to like get out of the car, like everything's spinning, I have to like sit on the ground.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I think like, you know, on an emotional level, a lot of times it'll be from like emotional like overwhelm.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And I feel like at that time, because that was the only time it happened.
• 44:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we were driving around a lot.
• 44:47
  SPEAKER_00: We were driving around a lot, and you and I, Belgit and uh Andrea went hiking before.
• 44:52
  SPEAKER_00: Like there was no other time that I remember that you had those symptoms.
• 44:56
  SPEAKER_01: No.
• 44:57
  SPEAKER_01: And I think when I get those symptoms too, is when I like take on a lot of energy because it's very easy for me to feel what other people are feeling.
• 45:07
  SPEAKER_01: Like I just have to take like one look at someone and I know like everything.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: So there being so many people there and also so many like people feeling things, I think I unknowingly just started to like really take all of that on and process it for everybody.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, and I think also because I was driving in the car with people that they're great people.
• 45:30
  SPEAKER_01: I love them, but I I didn't know them that well.
• 45:32
  SPEAKER_01: So like I also didn't feel like safe.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: And again, this is not anything bad about them.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_01: It's just that I'm like so overly sensitive.
• 45:42
  SPEAKER_01: So I started to get the vertigo and like I had to like get out of the car, it was horrible.
• 45:48
  SPEAKER_01: And then like I made it there, but I was like, everything was spinning.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_01: This happens to me.
• 45:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's like hard, it's a horrible feeling.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_01: And then once that happened, once we got there, she came over and she was like, she told me to hug her.
• 46:05
  SPEAKER_01: And then I remember she was like, no, like, really, like lean in.
• 46:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, let me hold you, like, let all your weight go onto me.
• 46:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like, don't hold back.
• 46:14
  SPEAKER_01: And like in that moment, it was like a very powerful moment because I really with my mom, I never felt like I could fully lean into her support.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_01: I never felt fully supported by her like that.
• 46:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, she really could hold me energetically, physically, emotionally, mentally.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_01: I never had that experience with her.
• 46:35
  SPEAKER_01: Again, nothing bad.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_01: Love the woman, but that's just wasn't what she could do.
• 46:40
  SPEAKER_01: So in that moment, it was really like powerful for me.
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_01: And then she like walked with me the whole time.
• 46:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then, like, the whole time she was like talking about how everyone else was going to have a reaction to the fact that she was spending time with me, which I was just like, okay, whatever.
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that was the whole thing is like then isolating me and then talking badly about everyone else to me.
• 47:06
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, look, they're jealous.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, look, they're doing this.
• 47:08
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, look, they're doing that.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_01: When really, like you guys weren't like doing anything, but it was like that.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_00: We were just all concerned about you.
• 47:16
  SPEAKER_00: And also there was an elevated sense of uncertainty because we didn't know exactly where we were to meet.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_00: We didn't know exactly where you were.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_00: And because that area is a place that I know by heart, I felt like this additional responsibility, which I got dinged for, of course, shamed for, that I didn't listen to.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_00: She said, I was sending you telepathic messages to tell you to wait for us.
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_00: Didn't you get them?
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_00: So it was this whole thing.
• 47:44
  SPEAKER_00: Meanwhile, none of us were thinking anything about you other than we hope Elise is okay.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_00: No one was jealous or or anything about you other than I hope she's okay.
• 47:53
  SPEAKER_00: And where are they?
• 47:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_00: But it created divisiveness, it created uncertainty, confusion, and a lot of, and most of that came from right out of the horse's mouth.
• 48:02
  SPEAKER_00: Oh, I don't want to say that about horses, right out of her mouth.
• 48:06
  SPEAKER_01: Well, and also I feel like it was another opportunity for her to create that bond with me.
• 48:12
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that was a part of it too, because it really did like hit me in like a certain place.
• 48:17
  SPEAKER_01: And also I think kind of like opened me up more to the experience because I think I think I was a little like cynical.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think I was a little bit annoyed, not annoyed by the situation, but I wasn't fully open to it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I think at that point it did open me up to it.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like it takes me a long time to open up to people, even though like I have close relationships and connections with people easily.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_01: It takes me still a while to like fully open up to people in full.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot here.
• 48:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I'm like, there's so, and I think there was probably a sense that I wasn't fully open to the experience.
• 48:59
  SPEAKER_01: And that was like the opportunity to get me to fully open up to the experience.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: And meanwhile, while she's telling everybody else that our husbands are bad news, she's really very much encouraging you and your husband.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: And yeah, I was I was the only one who got how great my relationship is.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's do one more pattern and then we're gonna turn the page and go on to the next piece.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: Elise, I have a request.
• 49:27
  SPEAKER_00: I would request that you do your masterclass on the patterns because this is like your wheelhouse.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_00: So stay tuned, everybody.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_00: I know that's coming.
• 49:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, for sure.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, so here's the last one.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_01: This is the one that is actually a really big problem for me is like identifying blocks or traumas without providing actual solutions or support.
• 49:53
  SPEAKER_01: So this was a thing that we again saw with a lot of people where it's like, okay, well, this is your problem.
• 49:58
  SPEAKER_01: This is why you haven't created the abundance you want.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: This is why you haven't created the money that you want, is because of this thing.
• 50:07
  SPEAKER_01: But then you get no solution, no support, no way of fixing it.
• 50:12
  SPEAKER_01: And you're just like spinning your tail, making yourself wrong.
• 50:16
  SPEAKER_01: That's the last one.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: There you have it.
• 50:18
  SPEAKER_00: So there you have it, Robin.
• 50:20
  SPEAKER_00: The patterns continue to evolve as we understand them.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things I appreciate about you is how quickly you knit things together.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_00: So thank you for bringing that forward.
• 50:31
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 50:32
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you.
• 50:33
  SPEAKER_01: And thank you for uh supporting.
• 50:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I do love, I mean, this is what I do all day with clients is find the patterns.
• 50:40
  SPEAKER_01: It is enjoyable to me.
• 50:42
  SPEAKER_00: I really feel like you could have had a career as like a profiler for serial killers or something like that.
• 50:48
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it's funny because like anytime I read what if you look at my astrology chart and you read like what are potential careers that you could have, they always say like private detective or investigator, some kind of investigator.
• 51:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was never drawn to doing anything having to do with like the law or that kind of thing.
• 51:08
  SPEAKER_01: My Aquarius moon is like, no, thank you.
• 51:12
  SPEAKER_01: But um, it always says that, which I think is funny.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: Well, okay.
• 51:16
  SPEAKER_00: So speaking about serial killers, shall we go on?
• 51:19
  unknown: Yes.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_00: Okay.
• 51:23
  SPEAKER_00: The next place we're gonna go to is the personality psychology insights.
• 51:28
  SPEAKER_00: Speaking of serial killers.
• 51:30
  SPEAKER_00: And ETW, if you haven't listened to the crossover episode on Two Shrinks on the Farm with me and Barb, Barb gets into it with her analysis of Betty's personality.
• 51:40
  SPEAKER_00: And spoiler alert, she indicates that there's one very, very well-known cult leader who has very similar personality characteristics to Betty.
• 51:52
  SPEAKER_00: So I will leave it there for now.
• 51:55
  SPEAKER_00: Not surprising.
• 51:56
  SPEAKER_00: Not surprising.
• 51:57
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, so when we talk about the personality insights, I want to bring forward a couple of things in our circles.
• 52:05
  SPEAKER_00: We'll just say in the wider spiritual entrepreneur, spiritual leadership community, they talk a lot about the dark triad.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's actually the dark tetrad.
• 52:13
  SPEAKER_00: There's been one thing that's been added to the dark triad.
• 52:16
  SPEAKER_00: The dark triad is a cluster of personality characteristics that run on a spectrum.
• 52:24
  SPEAKER_00: So it's not an all-or-nothing situation.
• 52:27
  SPEAKER_00: There's a big spectrum of these personality characteristics.
• 52:30
  SPEAKER_00: There's Machiavelliism, narcissism, psychopathy, and sadism.
• 52:35
  SPEAKER_00: So, shall we talk about that first?
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_01: I just want to make a comment in regards to the spectrum, just so people have an idea.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_01: Because so many of my clients will talk about that having mothers who have narcissistic tendencies.
• 52:50
  SPEAKER_01: And I always bring that back to that's actually a Pluto and Leo.
• 52:54
  SPEAKER_01: Our parents are the Pluto and Leo generation, and a shadow aspect of that is uh narcissism.
• 53:00
  SPEAKER_01: But having like a spectrum is like having narcissistic tendencies, right?
• 53:06
  SPEAKER_01: Where that can that shows up in certain ways that they behave would be like on one end of the spectrum to like full-on narcissist on the other end.
• 53:15
  SPEAKER_01: So I think it's important so people like understand that just because people show narcissistic tendencies doesn't mean like, oh my gosh, this person is a straight up narcissist, psychopath or whatever.
• 53:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's like it's a spectrum.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 53:28
  SPEAKER_00: From zero to 100.
• 53:30
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 53:32
  SPEAKER_00: For example.
• 53:34
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things I was thinking about is I just wanted to talk about these characteristics just very briefly.
• 53:41
  SPEAKER_00: You can go Google it too, of course, and maybe I'll do a maybe my masterclass will be on this part.
• 53:45
  SPEAKER_00: But let's just, I just want to give you little like sound bites, just little like snippets of detail to help you really land what each of these means.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_00: So with Machiavellianism, Machiavellian leaders are all about high control.
• 54:00
  SPEAKER_00: They don't build community, they build loyalty tests, tests of loyalty.
• 54:05
  SPEAKER_00: With psychopathy, it's not just not being remorseful, it's like an active absence of empathy.
• 54:12
  SPEAKER_00: With narcissism, it's about demanding devotion, but not returning it.
• 54:17
  SPEAKER_00: You have to be fully devoted to me, and this is what I require, but I will not demonstrate the same.
• 54:24
  SPEAKER_00: So there's no reciprocity with that, with the true narcissism.
• 54:28
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 54:29
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes total sense.
• 54:31
  SPEAKER_00: And then with sadism, oftentimes we think about sadism as like a physical pain, but sadism is actually cruelty.
• 54:38
  SPEAKER_00: And when somebody is sadistic, they can make you feel like they're harming you for your own good.
• 54:43
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 54:44
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that they think they are.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe.
• 54:46
  SPEAKER_01: Like I think that they derive joy from it.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I just want to say, too, to bring it back to like the mind control stuff, when they do like trauma-based mind control, when you create in order to deal with the trauma, a lot of times you'll the person will create alter personalities that do enjoy the pain.
• 55:08
  SPEAKER_01: So that's actually like an aspect of the alternate personalities we would create who are sadist because they actually enjoy it.
• 55:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:19
  SPEAKER_00: With sadism, I was thinking about that.
• 55:21
  SPEAKER_00: Like if we're looking not so much as physical pain, but there can be that.
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_00: But if we're looking at mental and emotional pain, I was thinking about the times when I experienced the sadism from Betty.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_00: And a lot of it had to do with being mocked.
• 55:35
  SPEAKER_00: Do you remember in my second episode when I was telling you it was kind of toward the end, and she looked at me and she said, Everyone thinks you're a big joke.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 55:45
  SPEAKER_00: For staying with me.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_00: And then she said to me at the very end, as I was back at the farm, and I said, you know, I was starting to talk with Barb about things, and um, my husband was being very supportive.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_00: And she said to me, Are you so psychologically weak?
• 56:01
  SPEAKER_00: Like those are the things to me, when I look at like how that characteristic of sadism affected me personally, those were the kinds of words, and it wasn't just the words, it was the energetic, and it was the tone that came along with those that really illustrates that sadism.
• 56:19
  SPEAKER_00: Does that make sense?
• 56:20
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 56:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then with the Machiavelliism, one of the things that I see with her a lot is we've already talked about it in the patterns, but really like setting up triangles and then manufacturing the enemies.
• 56:31
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, yeah.
• 56:32
  SPEAKER_00: So a triangle could be you, me, and Betty.
• 56:37
  SPEAKER_00: And it it wasn't, it just wasn't could be, it was you, me, and Betty.
• 56:41
  SPEAKER_00: And uh last uh in January of 2023, when pretty much simultaneously, probably on the same day, she said to us that we were both copying her and that we were making people feel very uncomfortable with how we were behaving because of how we were copying her and things like that.
• 56:57
  SPEAKER_00: But that was a triangulation, and it was, I think, very strategic.
• 57:01
  SPEAKER_00: And then there were also manufactured enemies.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_00: There was always somebody outside of the circle.
• 57:06
  SPEAKER_00: We can trace this all the way back to uh, well, definitely the San Diego retreat, right?
• 57:12
  SPEAKER_00: Where there was somebody outside of us.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_00: There were invisible criminals outside of us who were creating uh the energetic or the energetic manipulations or the drama that we had to go in and fight against, right?
• 57:26
  SPEAKER_00: Or in Croatia with the the drones are watching us and the people are penetrating our energy and that kind of thing.
• 57:34
  SPEAKER_00: So it was always around, you know, kind of consolidating the in-group and creating dependence and you know, looking outside of the in-group and saying it's dangerous out there, and positioning herself as that really the authority, the safe authority, the one who uh was the savior.
• 57:54
  SPEAKER_00: That was the other thing, of course, the savior complex that we saw emerge as well.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_00: Anything occurring to you about that?
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_01: Well, I think then that also creates the loyalty, right?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because then it's like, well, since everyone outside, you can't trust anybody but me or but this group, you know, and I think that was the thing that some of the women said after that Croatia retreat was the they felt like everybody was the enemy except for her and the people in the group.
• 58:23
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 58:24
  SPEAKER_00: And then the group got smaller and smaller and smaller, of course.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_00: I kind of want to come back to Machiavelliism because these are we know kind of the narcissistic kind of thing that's kind of in the vernacular now, it's kind of in the field.
• 58:36
  SPEAKER_00: We don't always talk about Machiavelliism at all, actually.
• 58:39
  SPEAKER_00: I think maybe we're the only ones who are talking about it.
• 58:42
  SPEAKER_00: But when we look at just from my experience, you know, and you'll have your own experience with this, but undermining confidence, undermining my confidence, guilt tripping my autonomy, reinforcing dependency.
• 58:54
  SPEAKER_00: I have your back.
• 58:55
  SPEAKER_00: Nobody understands me better than she does.
• 58:57
  SPEAKER_00: Do you see what I'm saying?
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_00: So we have to look at that as part of the characteristic.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_00: And it's not just a one-time thing, guys, of course.
• 59:04
  SPEAKER_00: This is a pattern that we see, a pervasive pattern over the course of a relationship.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 59:11
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I think that like that is the thing that creates the look, because isn't Machiavellianism the one that you have to be loyal to the person?
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and the just the being in the high control, too.
• 59:21
  SPEAKER_00: I have to control everything.
• 59:22
  SPEAKER_00: And I'm thinking back to that the night before the retreat ended in Croatia when every she was trying to get everyone to be quiet and people weren't being quiet.
• 59:30
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, Audrey was trying to put on her shoes and making you not even a lot of noise.
• 59:34
  SPEAKER_00: And she said, You all are making me look like a cult leader.
• 59:37
  SPEAKER_00: How illustrative of that high control uh it was, that experience was.
• 59:45
  SPEAKER_00: So we have the dark triad, and I want to go into contrast with the light triad, which is one of the personality clusters, I'll say, that a lot of us possess who were in her world for any period of time.
• 59:57
  SPEAKER_00: And the light triad has to do with believing the best in humans, believing that humans are not a means to an end, but are an end in their own regard.
• 1:00:08
  SPEAKER_00: Humans are, we don't have to have any transactions.
• 1:00:11
  SPEAKER_00: We can just be with another person and know that they are worthy, they are valuable, they are precious in and of themselves without any kind of transaction or tit for tat.
• 1:00:20
  SPEAKER_00: The other is just having a general sense of benevolence, having a general sense that I believe in the good in people, I believe in the good in the world.
• 1:00:28
  SPEAKER_00: So we have that contrast between the dark tetrad and the light triad.
• 1:00:33
  SPEAKER_00: The light triad, of course, is part of the native characteristics that most of us, all of us, I will say, possessed who are in her world.
• 1:00:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that most people want to believe that people are good.
• 1:00:47
  SPEAKER_01: And actually, I think that the powers that be, whatever you want to say, relies on that, you know, because a lot of people don't want to believe that there are people out there manipulating us and whatever it is.
• 1:01:01
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that on a greater scale, and I do believe actually that most people are good and most people want other people to be happy and don't want to hurt anyone.
• 1:01:10
  SPEAKER_01: I think that that is a human characteristic.
• 1:01:14
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, on a normal distribution curve, 68% of the population are going to be about average in terms of the light triad.
• 1:01:22
  SPEAKER_00: And then there are going to be some who are way more, have way more of those characteristics, and some who, as we know, are gonna fall in the spectrum more of the dark tetrad, which are going to have way, way less of those particular human characteristics.
• 1:01:36
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:01:37
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry to get nerdy there, but no, that makes sense.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: You know, me.
• 1:01:40
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:01:41
  SPEAKER_00: Those light triad characteristics I saw pretty consistently with all of the women, including me, including you, in addition to, you know, I talk a lot about the neo-personality profile, which I give to the women leaders who come into my company all the time.
• 1:01:56
  SPEAKER_00: I because I like to teach us, I like to teach all of us about ourselves.
• 1:02:00
  SPEAKER_00: And so what I'm seeing is high levels of openness to experiences, which is basically the hallmark of the creative and intuitive personality, being highly imaginative, challenge the status quo, wanting to have new adventures, go new places, try new things, lifelong learners, that kind of uh personality characteristic.
• 1:02:21
  SPEAKER_00: And then being a little bit more agreeable than the average bear, seeing the best in people, being tender-minded, you know, wanting to help people out, give people a leg up, that kind of thing, just having this benevolence about them, wanting to help humanity.
• 1:02:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then on top of it, we see across the board a trauma history.
• 1:02:40
  SPEAKER_00: I think that, Elise, in terms of, I want to go back to trauma-based mind control for a second.
• 1:02:46
  SPEAKER_00: As I've been, you've introduced me into some of these podcasts that talk specifically about that.
• 1:02:51
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I'm looking at is where's the intersection?
• 1:02:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like, how do they choose people for the trauma-based mind control?
• 1:02:58
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that stands out to me are these two characteristics of openness and agreeableness.
• 1:03:04
  SPEAKER_00: So when you're open and you're highly imaginative, you're also highly susceptible to hypnosis.
• 1:03:09
  SPEAKER_00: You're highly susceptible to suggestion.
• 1:03:12
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:03:13
  SPEAKER_00: You have a tendency toward that.
• 1:03:15
  SPEAKER_00: So it kind of creates this perfect uh intersection to be taken advantage of in some way, or to have more trauma inserted into your field as a result of just how your personality is wired.
• 1:03:31
  SPEAKER_01: No, that makes total sense.
• 1:03:32
  SPEAKER_01: Because I think that you have the ability to be more traumatized by things because of your openness, agreeableness, and like sensitivity.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:03:42
  SPEAKER_00: And that's how the nervous system is wired too.
• 1:03:44
  SPEAKER_00: When when there's a lot of trauma running on the nervous system, there is going to be like we talked about at the beginning, when Betty is forming trauma bonds, she's she already knows enough about the person because we've revealed so much in our private sessions or just through the conversations that it's almost like there's already a pathway that's been revealed about what's the best way to exploit the trauma that's already sitting in the nervous system.
• 1:04:11
  SPEAKER_00: Where are the uh neuropathways that will be activated if something is very similar to the original trauma or the trauma that happened in reality?
• 1:04:21
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that makes sense.
• 1:04:23
  SPEAKER_00: So again, this is not meant to be like a complete summary of everything, but I did want to bring that in that you know, we're dealing with somebody who has this dark tetrad of personality characteristics.
• 1:04:36
  SPEAKER_00: And on the other hand, those who gathered in uh around her, you, me, the other nine who have come forward on the podcast, and others like us, have way more of the characteristics that I described in the light triad and also in the personality profiles.
• 1:04:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the other thing to remember too, just for people who are wanting to like really learn about the patterns and what it looks like for people to operate this way.
• 1:05:04
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it can be challenging because a lot of times these people are very charismatic and they know exactly how to show up not only with what they say, but also just like energetically and frequency-based, like you, or like how you want to be or what you want.
• 1:05:24
  SPEAKER_01: So that's the piece where I think really doing your own deeper work is so important because you need to be able to just catch some of like the underlying things that might not be as obvious.
• 1:05:37
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:05:38
  SPEAKER_00: Well, and when we look at projections, Elise, don't you think too that you might have said this well without saying it, but she was a mirror a lot for me.
• 1:05:47
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 1:05:48
  SPEAKER_00: Uh, and a big contrast as well.
• 1:05:50
  SPEAKER_00: But because I think that up until this point, I've walked around with rose colored glasses.
• 1:05:57
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I know it has come out of this, is how important it is.
• 1:06:04
  SPEAKER_00: Discernment is in the process, and also to really recognize the difference between influence and intuition.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:06:11
  SPEAKER_01: And also like for me, because there was just certain patterns of relating that I was used to from growing up, which is like not feeling safe, feeling like you don't know what to expect, you know, feeling like you're gonna get yelled at or whatever it is.
• 1:06:26
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I like let those things happen because it was like normal to me.
• 1:06:33
  SPEAKER_01: Whereas like now looking back on it, I'm like, like I will never be in a situation again where I feel like that with somebody, especially that I'm paying to like help me.
• 1:06:42
  SPEAKER_01: You know what I mean?
• 1:06:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I really did have to walk through that and learn that because it was subtle, because there was all of these other ways that she was showing up as like exactly, you know, the thing that I would have wanted.
• 1:06:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that that's really important to just clock for people is like if it is showing up as something that's familiar from your childhood that you're used to, but it that is not that doesn't feel good, then that's like a really a very powerful thing to notice.
• 1:07:11
  SPEAKER_00: It's the painful familiar folks.
• 1:07:14
  SPEAKER_00: So should we close the book on Betty?
• 1:07:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, let's close, close the book on that bitch.
• 1:07:21
  SPEAKER_00: Oh my God.
• 1:07:23
  SPEAKER_00: I have a couple things to say about that.
• 1:07:25
  SPEAKER_00: Please.
• 1:07:26
  SPEAKER_00: Well, one of the things that people have been wondering about is why did we not reveal her identity?
• 1:07:32
  SPEAKER_00: And there were a couple of reasons for that.
• 1:07:34
  SPEAKER_00: One is because legal consult suggested that we don't.
• 1:07:40
  SPEAKER_00: And we certainly didn't change her name to protect her identity or to protect her reputation.
• 1:07:47
  SPEAKER_00: But we did want to protect this space.
• 1:07:50
  SPEAKER_00: And we wanted to invite the people who came forward to be able to have this conversation safely without undue repercussions for having the conversation, if that makes sense.
• 1:08:02
  SPEAKER_01: For me too, like I think it was really important to not say her name because like one of the things I feel so strongly about, which is why I had such conflict about this, is like the idea of like talking about somebody, especially if it's somebody that I'm saying who it is, like that just doesn't feel right to me.
• 1:08:21
  SPEAKER_01: Like I don't like going around talking about people, especially not on like a platform.
• 1:08:27
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, if we did say her name, it would have had that texture to it.
• 1:08:32
  SPEAKER_01: And I didn't want it to be that.
• 1:08:34
  SPEAKER_01: I wanted it to be our stories and how this contributes to a much larger conversation and also like what we really are learning from this and what we're taking away and how we're moving forward.
• 1:08:46
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that for that reason too, it was just really important to not say her name.
• 1:08:51
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 1:08:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think so.
• 1:08:53
  SPEAKER_00: And the other thing that I wanted to say is this this is a pattern that I saw in her for a long, long time.
• 1:09:00
  SPEAKER_00: Whenever somebody would leave her community, whenever somebody would go back to the way things were before they met her, she would come to me and she would have these conversations and she would say something like, you know what, they're making me the bad person in order to justify their decision to go back to the way life was or to go back to their partner or to go back to their job or whatever it is.
• 1:09:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I would not be surprised if she is saying that about me at all.
• 1:09:26
  SPEAKER_00: And if she is, you know, that's her story to tell.
• 1:09:29
  SPEAKER_00: It's not true.
• 1:09:30
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't need to vilify anybody, I don't need to make anybody a villain.
• 1:09:33
  SPEAKER_00: The truth is loud.
• 1:09:35
  SPEAKER_00: And my being here on this podcast, my being with you and interviewing the other women who came in has revealed something that goes far beyond me or anyone else pointing a finger at her and saying, you did this.
• 1:09:49
  SPEAKER_00: And so, because of that, it's your fault.
• 1:09:52
  SPEAKER_00: But really, I think that this whole series has shed such light on a chronic and pervasive problem that now that the decks are clear, you can see what's next.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 1:10:04
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that this is something that, like, again, it's not just about her.
• 1:10:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like this type of thing has been happening, whether it's in like the online space or, you know, whether it's in other spaces, this type of thing has been happening for a long time and it needs to be talked about.
• 1:10:23
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that is the greater reason why we're doing it, because this has to be like a normal conversation so that everybody's aware and it's not something that people feel shame around talking about.
• 1:10:35
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 1:10:36
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you for that.
• 1:10:37
  SPEAKER_00: And then the last thing I want to talk about is this.
• 1:10:40
  SPEAKER_00: And you mentioned this in previous episodes as well, that at the beginning, she was kind of bringing us all in to validate her, to um show that if we believe in her, that other people should believe in her as well.
• 1:10:52
  SPEAKER_00: And I think, especially for you and me as as clinicians, and probably most especially for me with my PhD.
• 1:10:59
  SPEAKER_00: And so here's what I want to say about that.
• 1:11:02
  SPEAKER_00: In the beginning, I didn't think she was crazy.
• 1:11:05
  SPEAKER_00: I really thought that there was something larger happening.
• 1:11:08
  SPEAKER_00: And in fact, there was.
• 1:11:09
  SPEAKER_00: Now, whether we want to call it a walk-in or a galactic dark entity or a demon or a Charles Manson personality disorder, whatever we want to call it.
• 1:11:22
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever we want to call it, there was something bigger going on.
• 1:11:26
  SPEAKER_00: She presented as very different and very unique, but to me, she didn't present it as crazy.
• 1:11:32
  SPEAKER_00: But the other thing was that I wasn't there as a therapist.
• 1:11:34
  SPEAKER_00: I wasn't evaluating her.
• 1:11:37
  SPEAKER_00: And at this point, what I can say is no matter how you look at it, she's dangerous.
• 1:11:41
  SPEAKER_00: She's a charlatan, she's a fraud.
• 1:11:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that if she's still, and I know that she is because I've seen it firsthand, still borrowing my credentials to validate herself, that's really about her and her conscience.
• 1:11:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to say that I think that that's an important thing for me to take a stand on because anything that I said about her during the time that I was very enmeshed with it, I just I think that right now where I'm standing is I I revoke it all.
• 1:12:14
  SPEAKER_00: I revoke it all.
• 1:12:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I think that's really important because I think that she really wanted to use your credentials to validate her, and you felt pressured to do that.
• 1:12:27
  SPEAKER_01: And also, again, you were not evaluating her as a psychologist, and no one was asking you whether or not you thought she was sane.
• 1:12:37
  SPEAKER_01: It was more like it was very manipulative.
• 1:12:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's important.
• 1:12:42
  SPEAKER_00: And you know, there's a lot of masking that happens too with the dark tetrad, is that they can be very nice and they can be very accommodating and very charming and all of those things.
• 1:12:50
  SPEAKER_00: And that's what, and ultimately, where I land on things is that there was a lot of masking going on until she just couldn't mask anymore.
• 1:12:59
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, as is clearly illustrated by my 24-day misadventure, uh, I have arrived at that conclusion.
• 1:13:05
  SPEAKER_00: So I will leave it at that.
• 1:13:09
  SPEAKER_00: Okay, let's talk about what's next.
• 1:13:13
  SPEAKER_01: New leadership stuff.
• 1:13:15
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, well, we kind of alluded to all of it, right?
• 1:13:18
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do this, you know, we have the group of me, you, Elizabeth, Belgie, and Louisa, and we're going to be sharing some new stuff.
• 1:13:27
  SPEAKER_01: We're still kind of hashing that out.
• 1:13:28
  SPEAKER_01: I know you said like the masterclasses and stuff.
• 1:13:30
  SPEAKER_01: We're still kind of hashing out exactly what that's gonna look like.
• 1:13:33
  SPEAKER_01: But I think ultimately we've been launching this new conversation as to like what it means to be in this space and hold a higher standard for ethics and leadership and what our personal contributions are to that.
• 1:13:50
  SPEAKER_01: That feels really exciting.
• 1:13:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I definitely am gonna be doing more with the patterns, you know, and bringing that forward in some way.
• 1:13:57
  SPEAKER_01: I haven't decided exactly how yet.
• 1:14:00
  SPEAKER_01: So, yeah, so for me, I think it's just this new conversation, I'll call it, but it feels bigger than a conversation.
• 1:14:06
  SPEAKER_01: It feels like, you know, us getting together and really taking a stand in some way for what we're requiring of people in this space.
• 1:14:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I don't know exactly what that looks like yet because we're still, it's still kind of cooking.
• 1:14:21
  SPEAKER_01: But to me, that's really exciting.
• 1:14:23
  SPEAKER_01: And that's something that I have felt strongly about for a very long time, even before we started this series.
• 1:14:30
  SPEAKER_00: I am so excited about season two, focusing on the what's next, the masterclasses, the cosmic code of ethics, as I've been fondly calling them, and really finding a new way forward.
• 1:14:44
  SPEAKER_00: And I think it's really interesting.
• 1:14:46
  SPEAKER_00: Today, well, I think it was actually yesterday, it's a new moon in Taurus.
• 1:14:50
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that today is such a perfect day to close that portal from Betty and so on, and to be able to really stand here at the precipice of what's next, knowing we're going to take a little hiatus for a little bit of the summer anyway, and then come back in strong with the next community-wide steps for bringing through really ethical high integrity and clear, clean energy as we move forward into the future.
• 1:15:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 1:15:20
  SPEAKER_01: Elise, can you believe it?
• 1:15:23
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, and no.
• 1:15:24
  SPEAKER_01: I'm kind of like glad that it's over in a way, because like it was a lot.
• 1:15:30
  SPEAKER_01: It was a lot, yeah.
• 1:15:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I also like, and I think I share this in one of my intros.
• 1:15:34
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I I have been having a little bit of a personal uh struggle because, like, even though there's so many things that I think are really important in this, there's another part of me that's just like, I don't want to give this bitch any more airtime.
• 1:15:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like, get the fuck out of my podcast.
• 1:15:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like, that's literally how I feel.
• 1:15:53
  SPEAKER_01: So, and then I also like all the other stuff is amazing.
• 1:15:56
  SPEAKER_01: And I think there's so much great stuff coming out of it.
• 1:15:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's been like a little bit of my own personal struggle.
• 1:16:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just so, you know, just being honest.
• 1:16:04
  SPEAKER_01: So I am, I am glad in that sense to be going to the next step now.
• 1:16:08
  SPEAKER_00: I am too.
• 1:16:09
  SPEAKER_00: And, you know, I've got my book that I'm working on writing this year.
• 1:16:14
  SPEAKER_00: I actually started a writing club for my Engelheim Press because as I learned last year, the only way a book gets published is if I have a club.
• 1:16:23
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know why that is.
• 1:16:24
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that this is a story only I can tell.
• 1:16:28
  SPEAKER_00: My story is one I only I can tell.
• 1:16:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that is very, very important to me.
• 1:16:34
  SPEAKER_00: I am writing into it.
• 1:16:36
  SPEAKER_00: So I don't know what it's going to look like at the end.
• 1:16:38
  SPEAKER_00: And I also know that for me, one of the most important things that came out of this conversation is how vital it is that we protect our consciousness.
• 1:16:47
  SPEAKER_00: So for me, it's working with the healers, the psychologists, the therapists, the counselors, helping them heal first.
• 1:16:55
  SPEAKER_00: Because we're all, when you work in this field, there, you know, there's a lot that happens in our brains and our minds and our spirits that can, unbeknownst to us, be, you know, obscuring our best, our very, very best energy that's meant to come through.
• 1:17:09
  SPEAKER_00: So working with them, I've got the ebook Healing the Healers coming out soon.
• 1:17:13
  SPEAKER_00: I know I keep saying that, but I promise it's coming out soon.
• 1:17:16
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not being a perfectionist.
• 1:17:17
  SPEAKER_00: I just really wanted to get through the not get through, but you know what I mean.
• 1:17:20
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to see the this podcast through and be able to really write from the gestalt, the wholeness of this, rather than, you know, try to pump something out before it was ready.
• 1:17:30
  SPEAKER_00: So I'm honoring that process.
• 1:17:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that's important to me.
• 1:17:34
  SPEAKER_00: And then I think that, you know, in terms of the the work that I'm doing with my clients, just really one of the things that I know about people like us is that we are lifelong learners.
• 1:17:46
  SPEAKER_00: But there comes a point when it's time to stand in the truth of who you are and what you do, like you have done with the metamorphosis method.
• 1:17:56
  SPEAKER_00: And like I have done with, I don't even know what to call whatever the McKay thing is that I do over here.
• 1:18:02
  SPEAKER_00: But I think that more and more that's what's being called for in our community as well.
• 1:18:07
  SPEAKER_00: And so there are those who have moved beyond, you know, the EFT and the Reiki and the even sometimes the Akashic records, I think.
• 1:18:15
  SPEAKER_00: And so really looking at how can we help them bring forward their own modalities in a way that is coherent and authentic and in high integrity and bring it to the people who are meant to receive it.
• 1:18:27
  SPEAKER_00: So that's what I have going on.
• 1:18:29
  SPEAKER_00: How about you?
• 1:18:30
  SPEAKER_00: HBU.
• 1:18:31
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 1:18:32
  SPEAKER_01: I have the metamorphosis starting again.
• 1:18:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I I have gotten so much clarity too, just around like the level of focus that I have on the metamorphosis and the metamorphosis method certification and those two things really being what I do, you know, and like really having those be my main focus.
• 1:18:52
  SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, if you want to work with me for longer, there's the mothership, year-long uh membership where you get my support for a much longer time with these tools.
• 1:19:01
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, when I look in Inteachable, where my courses are, like when I look at the metamorphosis, I've now had it for five years.
• 1:19:09
  SPEAKER_01: And I have women who purchase it in 2020 who still log in regularly and use the tool.
• 1:19:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, this is not something that you just like learn it once.
• 1:19:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like literally every time you do it, there's more and more and more, and you get results over and over and over again.
• 1:19:25
  SPEAKER_01: So to me, it's like it's so profound and it's so important that like that's really what I want to be focusing on.
• 1:19:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm gonna be doing less other stuff.
• 1:19:35
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I'm still gonna be doing like the, you know, the smaller like telegram broadcasts and stuff like that.
• 1:19:42
  SPEAKER_01: But the main focus of my work is gonna be the metamorphosis, the mothership, and the certification.
• 1:19:47
  SPEAKER_01: And then obviously the private work I do with people because I love that.
• 1:19:52
  SPEAKER_01: It's really, I think, so freeing too to just like be able to just do the thing that you're really good at and just continue to perfect it and help other people gain mastery over it and their own lives and let it be as simple as that.
• 1:20:07
  SPEAKER_01: So that's where I'm at with everything.
• 1:20:09
  SPEAKER_00: I love that.
• 1:20:10
  SPEAKER_00: What's your uh final wish for our listeners as we are closing out season one?
• 1:20:17
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's just to let this be an opening for you to do your deeper work and deeper awareness around these things.
• 1:20:28
  SPEAKER_01: So, and keep the conversation going so that it's something that is regularly out there and being talked about so it eventually doesn't happen in this way again.
• 1:20:39
  SPEAKER_00: And my final wish, not final, it sounds so final when I say that.
• 1:20:44
  SPEAKER_00: Your last will and destiny.
• 1:20:45
  SPEAKER_00: My last.
• 1:20:46
  SPEAKER_00: Don't say that.
• 1:20:47
  SPEAKER_00: Sorry, I'm gonna be here for at least another 55 years.
• 1:20:51
  SPEAKER_00: So get ready.
• 1:20:54
  SPEAKER_00: Is to guard your consciousness.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yep.
• 1:20:57
  SPEAKER_00: Take impeccable care of your consciousness because our consciousness is our most, most precious thing that we have.
• 1:21:05
  SPEAKER_00: And there's too much going on in the world to hijack and distract and so on.
• 1:21:11
  SPEAKER_00: And Elise, I am grateful for your podcast because uh it's called Reclaiming Consciousness, and I really do feel like we have done that.
• 1:21:18
  SPEAKER_00: I agree.
• 1:21:19
  SPEAKER_00: I know that I have, I got my hair back.
• 1:21:20
  SPEAKER_00: I said I was saying to Elise before we started, it's my life is like a country song played backwards.
• 1:21:26
  SPEAKER_00: I got my hair back, got my dog back, my husband back.
• 1:21:32
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 1:21:33
  SPEAKER_01: Well, thank you, Robin.
• 1:21:34
  SPEAKER_01: This was this was incredible, and this was like the perfect way to close it out.
• 1:21:39
  SPEAKER_01: And also, as we come into summer, I think it's like perfect.
• 1:21:43
  SPEAKER_01: So thank you.
• 1:21:44
  SPEAKER_01: I do too.
• 1:21:45
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you, and thank you everybody for joining us today.
• 1:21:49
  SPEAKER_00: Keep in touch with us on Instagram, and I think that we're gonna do a debrief on this episode, too.
• 1:21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sure, why not?
• 1:21:56
  SPEAKER_00: What do you think?
• 1:21:57
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Why not?
• 1:21:58
  SPEAKER_00: One more curtain call before we say goodbye for the summer.
• 1:22:04
  SPEAKER_00: We'll we'll curtsy.
• 1:22:06
  SPEAKER_00: All right, thank you all for joining us, and we will see you on debriefed, and then we will see you in season two.
• 1:22:13
  SPEAKER_00: Bye.
• 1:22:14
  SPEAKER_00: I love you guys.
• 1:22:17
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for being here.
• 1:22:19
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow the show on Apple or Spotify.
• 1:22:22
  SPEAKER_01: Leave a review and share the show with your friends who you know are yearning for this type of content.
• 1:22:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you leave a review, send us a screenshot and we'll send you a$250 credit that you can apply to joining anything new in my world.
• 1:22:35
  SPEAKER_01: You can stay connected with me by following me on Instagram at elise underscore breeds.
• 1:22:39
  SPEAKER_01: Make sure you download my Clear Trauma Cheat Sheet at elisebreeds.com.
• 1:22:43
  SPEAKER_01: See you next time.