Latest / Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families / #238 Ant Williams - What Does Free Diving & Parenting Have in Common?

Transcript

#238 Ant Williams - What Does Free Diving & Parenting Have in Common? · Dr Justin Coulson's Happy Families

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  Speaker 1: It's the Happy Families podcast. It's the podcast for the
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  Speaker 1: time poor parent who just wants answers.
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  Speaker 2: Now, your problem is you don't know how to let go. Yes,
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  Speaker 2: as soon as you figure that out, you're going to
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  Speaker 2: go really deep.
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  Speaker 1: And now here's the stars of our show, my mum
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  Speaker 1: and dad.
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  Speaker 3: Hello.
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  Speaker 4: This is doctor Justin Colson, the author of six books
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  Speaker 4: about raising happy families and the founder of Happy Families
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  Speaker 4: dot com dot au.
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  Speaker 3: Normally I'm with.
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  Speaker 4: My wife, my co host, Kylie, mum to our six daughters.
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  Speaker 4: But during the school holidays around most of the country,
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  Speaker 4: Kylie and I have taken the opportunity to spend some
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  Speaker 4: quality family time with our kids, and we hope that
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  Speaker 4: you're doing the same. However, we wanted to keep the
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  Speaker 4: podcast going because some people's routines still the way.
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  Speaker 3: They always were.
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  Speaker 4: And on today's podcast, we're looking back at my parenting
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  Speaker 4: in Perspective interview series which we published last year. On
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  Speaker 4: episode one, one nine, I spoke with Aunt Williams. As
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  Speaker 4: one of the deepest men in the world. Aunt has
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  Speaker 4: pushed through both the physical and mental barriers to hold
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  Speaker 4: his breath for over eight minutes. He's dived to one
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  Speaker 4: hundred meters under the surface, and he can swim two
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  Speaker 4: hundred and forty meters on one breath. That's nearly five
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  Speaker 4: laps of an Olympic sized swimming pall. In short, he
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  Speaker 4: knows how to overcome some of the most demanding and
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  Speaker 4: uncomfortable challenges that a person can face. Ant teaches others
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  Speaker 4: how to lean into discomfort and take positive.
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  Speaker 3: Calculated risk.
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  Speaker 4: So I started by asking Aunt about what parents should
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  Speaker 4: do when they're feeling out of their depth.
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  Speaker 2: I was quite fascinated by this around Why was such
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  Speaker 2: a deal for me, and because I think it's it's
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  Speaker 2: this type of imposts syndrome where you feel that you're
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  Speaker 2: in a position of authority or responsibility helping support others,
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  Speaker 2: in my case in athletes in my sport.
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  Speaker 3: Yet I felt like a true impost I.
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  Speaker 2: Think that when you first had your, you know, a child,
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  Speaker 2: then there's this belief that you're automatic be a great
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  Speaker 2: parent because you're a wonderful person, and you buy into
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  Speaker 2: this right and then you.
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  Speaker 3: Realize that it's actually really hard and that you're.
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  Speaker 2: Ill equipped, and then you sort of, I don't know,
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  Speaker 2: I think you do one of two things. There are
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  Speaker 2: those amongst us who seem to adapt very quickly and
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  Speaker 2: try to figure it out and put invest a lot
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  Speaker 2: of energy. And then there are those of us who
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  Speaker 2: are more stubborn and just go, this is just who
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  Speaker 2: I am. It's being more authentic to myself, and you know,
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  Speaker 2: you're just going to get what you receive from me,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm sure if it's anything like what I received,
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  Speaker 2: then you will be fine. And we don't adapt, We
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  Speaker 2: just kind of pursue and push forward. I've been freedoming
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  Speaker 2: for eighteen years, and I still would find that on
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  Speaker 2: probably thirty or forty percent of my dives, especially the
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  Speaker 2: deeper ones, I would experience fear or a sense that
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  Speaker 2: I need to be able.
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  Speaker 3: To control everything but I can't.
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  Speaker 2: Freedoming did teach me something quite early on, which was
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  Speaker 2: actually to let go of that need to feel like
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  Speaker 2: I should be in full control the whole time, but
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  Speaker 2: to more follow us set of principles and guidelines that
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  Speaker 2: I knew would keep me safe through each dive. And
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  Speaker 2: it took me a long time to to evolve those.
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  Speaker 2: But an early mistake that I think I kept doing
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  Speaker 2: for I reckon about a decade was diving with lots
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  Speaker 2: of fear feeling that as long as I puffed up
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  Speaker 2: my chest and asserted my control and dominance in each dive,
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  Speaker 2: that I would get deeper than any other athlete. And
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  Speaker 2: then I found that all most other athletes started to
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  Speaker 2: go past me in terms of how deep they were going,
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  Speaker 2: and I got stuck at a particular depth because that
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  Speaker 2: approach was no longer serving me well. And I think
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  Speaker 2: that there's some interesting analogies when I think of my
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  Speaker 2: own experience in parenting as well of trying to exert
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  Speaker 2: control or convince my kids that they should do it
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  Speaker 2: my way, I need to find that actually, if I
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  Speaker 2: took a step backwards and looked at it more holistically
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  Speaker 2: and turned the volume down on my ego, that actually
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  Speaker 2: might find a farm more effective way of getting the
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  Speaker 2: outcomes with my kids that are truly need.
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  Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast.
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  Speaker 5: Imagine a home where discipline got results without anyone having
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  Speaker 5: to feel bad or in trouble. The do's and don'ts
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  Speaker 5: of discipline as a webinar to help parents set limits
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  Speaker 5: with love, compassion, and humanity. Find it now at happy
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  Speaker 5: families dot com dot au slash shop.
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  Speaker 4: It's the Happy Families Podcast, the podcast for the time
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  Speaker 4: or parent who just wants answers now, And we're continuing
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  Speaker 4: a conversation with Aunt Williams, one of the deepest free
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  Speaker 4: divers in the world. It's really interesting that as well,
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  Speaker 4: the way you say that, Aunt, because I'm thinking, you know,
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  Speaker 4: those strategies that served you well until you got to
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  Speaker 4: that particular depth let's say, for example, forty meters. Those
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  Speaker 4: strategies worked until that point. And I think as parents
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  Speaker 4: we kind of get into patterns and we implement strategies
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  Speaker 4: at a certain level. But once our children get to
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  Speaker 4: a particular depth, that is, once they get to three
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  Speaker 4: or four or seven, we need to do something different
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  Speaker 4: because they've changed and we can't stay in that same pattern.
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  Speaker 4: But what about the pressure? You know, you describe the
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  Speaker 4: extraordinary pressure lungs the size of a grapefruit, feeling like
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  Speaker 4: you're being impaled and the ball is being pulled through
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  Speaker 4: your body and out the other side. As parents, we
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  Speaker 4: feel tremendous pressure. We feel in some ways that our
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  Speaker 4: children are doing some high pressure things to us. How
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  Speaker 4: do you deal with that pressure when you're under the water,
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  Speaker 4: And what does that teachers about parenting?
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  Speaker 2: Yeah, so this is I think possibly the greatest thing
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  Speaker 2: that free diving has taught me, in fact is and
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  Speaker 2: it was a hard lesson to learn it genuinely, was
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  Speaker 2: was that if I wanted to get deeper than fifty meters,
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  Speaker 2: then I had to change something fundamentally, not in my
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  Speaker 2: physicality or my technique or my equipment, but in my mindset.
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  Speaker 2: And I think for me, it's the same for parenting.
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  Speaker 2: Just like you said, you just need a different game
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  Speaker 2: plan in order to, you know, to deal with new challenges.
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  Speaker 3: And for ten years, I actually it was a ten years.
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  Speaker 2: No, it's probably five years I was stuck at fifty
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  Speaker 2: meters and then ten years I was stuck at another
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  Speaker 2: block which was eighty meters. And for the fifty meters
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  Speaker 2: one was it was actually coincidental. It was someone else
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  Speaker 2: who gave me the guidance by saying something very extraordinary
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  Speaker 2: to me. I was at a master free diving camp
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  Speaker 2: over in Turkey, and I remember it was the final
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  Speaker 2: day of coaching and training after two weeks in Turkey,
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  Speaker 2: and this in a plot called.
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  Speaker 3: Cash and we're out on a boat.
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  Speaker 2: It was awful conditions with white caps and waves, and
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  Speaker 2: there was only sort of six of us and some
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  Speaker 2: of the top free divers in the world and the
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  Speaker 2: best freeedoving coach in the world was there. And I
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  Speaker 2: was there, suited up, thinking there's no way any of
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  Speaker 2: us are going to dive today. These conditions are atrocious,
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  Speaker 2: but I didn't say that because I didn't want to
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  Speaker 2: be seen as the sook in the group.
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  Speaker 3: And there was this.
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  Speaker 2: One guy, his name was Toppy lutten Hungers, who was
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  Speaker 2: a finished guy, and he was the world record holder
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  Speaker 2: and swimming down to extraordinary depths with no fins on whatsoever,
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  Speaker 2: and he hadn't really said a word to anyone for
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  Speaker 2: two weeks. He was like the most introverted guy I've
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  Speaker 2: ever met. Anyway, I was there freaking out. It was
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  Speaker 2: the last day and I hadn't got past my fifty
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  Speaker 2: bloody meters and I went and sat down down on
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  Speaker 2: the transom so the back of the boat, just about
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  Speaker 2: to get in the water, and I sat next to
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  Speaker 2: Toppy and he didn't say word. I didn't say word,
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  Speaker 2: And as I was putting on my mask, he turned
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  Speaker 2: around he looked at me and he said, you know
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  Speaker 2: your problem And I just looked at him, went, what
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  Speaker 2: cause your problem is you don't know how to let go.
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  Speaker 3: You try to fight.
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  Speaker 2: Any time you try to fight, you get stuck, your
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  Speaker 2: ears lock up, you're tense up, and then you turn
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  Speaker 2: around and you have to come back because you can't
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  Speaker 2: bloody equalize.
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  Speaker 3: Mate.
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  Speaker 2: He is Your problem is you don't know how to
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  Speaker 2: let go yaus. As soon as you figure that out,
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  Speaker 2: you're going to go really deep. And then he just
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  Speaker 2: got in the water and the bugger swum off. I
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  Speaker 2: was like, hang on a second, what did you mean
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  Speaker 2: by that? And the weird thing was is that then
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  Speaker 2: I swam out. When it was my turn, I went
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  Speaker 2: out to the rope and yeah, the conditions were awful,
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  Speaker 2: waves of breaking over my mouth as I was trying
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  Speaker 2: to breathe up, and all I could think was this,
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  Speaker 2: this bagger had put this idea into my mind to
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  Speaker 2: let go. And the whole way down on my swim,
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  Speaker 2: I'm feeling all uncomfortable and been out of shape, but
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  Speaker 2: over and over in my mind it's saying let go,
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  Speaker 2: and then as I sail past forty meters, again, in
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  Speaker 2: my mind it's just saying let go, and then I
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  Speaker 2: sail past fifty meters, I sail past sixty meters and
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  Speaker 2: it ends up turning at sixty eight meters and swimming
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  Speaker 2: back up, and it was the weirdest thing ever like it.
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  Speaker 2: It felt like a beautiful dive. It actually did feel
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  Speaker 2: in control, even though I'd released my sense of control.
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  Speaker 2: And it was the biggest shift I've ever made in
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  Speaker 2: free diving. I'm annoyed that it took me ten years
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  Speaker 2: or five years to make that shift, and that it
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  Speaker 2: took one very strange comment.
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  Speaker 3: And sometimes that's all it takes.
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  Speaker 2: There's just some insight or inspiration from somewhere else to
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  Speaker 2: give you that breakthrough that you know.
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  Speaker 1: Now.
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  Speaker 4: I'm not going to suggest that parents need to let go,
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  Speaker 4: but if letting go was a useful strategy, and frankly,
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  Speaker 4: I think that letting go of control is a very
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  Speaker 4: important parenting strategy, how would you advise somebody to let go?
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  Speaker 4: How does a parent make that switch where they still
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  Speaker 4: care about the outcome? I mean, clearly, as a free dive,
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  Speaker 4: you don't want to die, you want to get back
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  Speaker 4: to the surface. You very much care about the outcome.
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  Speaker 4: So how do you continue to guide your children, care
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  Speaker 4: about the outcome and help them to move in an
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  Speaker 4: ideal direction while being while having that level of detachment,
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  Speaker 4: that ability to let go. How does a parent do
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  Speaker 4: that in real life in a practical way.
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  Speaker 2: Well, for me, it's about realizing that I am part
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  Speaker 2: of the issue, and that's hard, I think to accept
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  Speaker 2: on a number of occasions when we see our kids
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  Speaker 2: being unruly, as you think, this is my kid being unruly,
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  Speaker 2: and it's it's them. It's they've got to fix this,
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  Speaker 2: and I'm going to tell them how to fix this,
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  Speaker 2: and they should listen to me because I'm the adult
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  Speaker 2: and I know best. Whereas in fact, we still want
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  Speaker 2: the same outcome. We want to get our kids through
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  Speaker 2: something that's you know, a significant challenge. The insight for
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  Speaker 2: me from the free diving has been I still want
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  Speaker 2: the right outcome, which is to go deeper. I want
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  Speaker 2: to feel that experience of being successful with that, but
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  Speaker 2: I have to I have to be more humble. I
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  Speaker 2: actually have to acknowledge that what I'm doing is not
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  Speaker 2: working in this situation and I have to be open
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  Speaker 2: to different paths to change it up. And you know,
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  Speaker 2: when I figured that out in free diving, it was
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  Speaker 2: monumental for me. I think it took me years before
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  Speaker 2: I then learned how to take that insight and apply
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  Speaker 2: it to how I was parenting, and I still don't
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  Speaker 2: get it right all the time. There's no way, but
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  Speaker 2: I catch myself more often now going what outcome am
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  Speaker 2: I really after hear? What's the best outcome from my
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  Speaker 2: son and my daughter? And what else can I try
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  Speaker 2: if I'm if I put my ego to one side
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  Speaker 2: and explore different paths and what does my child really
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  Speaker 2: need from me today or right in this moment, and
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  Speaker 2: I'm just trying to be open to explore different ways
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  Speaker 2: of being for my children.
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  Speaker 3: That's and Williams.
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  Speaker 4: You can hear his full interview on episode one hundred
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  Speaker 4: and nineteen of the Parenting and Perspective podcast series.
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  Speaker 3: Kylie and I back tomorrow with.
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  Speaker 4: Another episode of the Happy Families podcast, and we're looking
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  Speaker 4: forward to reconnecting with you after the school holidays. If
• 11:34
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