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Let's Launch Your Podcast (with Jody Maberry) · The Daily Writer

0:04
SPEAKER_01: Welcome my friend.
0:05
SPEAKER_01: I'm so glad that you've joined me for this episode of the Smart Business Writing Podcast.
0:10
SPEAKER_01: If this is your first time listening, this is the show that helps you grow your business, amplify your authority, and increase your impact through the power of writing.
0:18
SPEAKER_01: My name is Kent Sanders, and I'm an author, ghostwriter, and professor.
0:23
SPEAKER_01: And if you're a regular listener, welcome back.
0:25
SPEAKER_01: Thanks so much for joining me.
0:26
SPEAKER_01: I truly appreciate it.
0:28
SPEAKER_01: So this is a show about business writing.
0:31
SPEAKER_01: But what does writing, quote unquote, mean?
0:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, writing to me means creating content in whatever form it might take.
0:39
SPEAKER_01: That could be articles, books, blog posts, social media posts, speeches, and one of my personal favorite forms of communication, which is podcasting.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: If you're listening to this right now, obviously you're a fan of podcasts because this obviously is a podcast.
0:56
SPEAKER_01: But have you ever thought about creating your own podcast?
1:00
SPEAKER_01: And if so, what it would take to actually get it out there.
1:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, I'm thankful that today's guest is here to help answer those questions and much more.
1:08
SPEAKER_01: His name is Jody Mayberry, and he's one of the foremost podcast experts in the business world today.
1:14
SPEAKER_01: He's a former park ranger who used the power of podcasting to have a huge impact in the parks industry through his podcast called Park Leaders.
1:24
SPEAKER_01: Now Jody is a podcast coach and consultant, as well as the co-host of several excellent podcasts, including the Creating Disney Magic podcast with former executive VP of Operations for Walt Disney World, Lee Cockrell, the Come Rain or Shine podcast with former VP of the Magic Kingdom, Dan Cockrell, and the Morgan James Radio Podcast with Morgan James Publishing CEO, David Hancock.
1:50
SPEAKER_01: In other words, Jody Mayberry knows what he's talking about when it comes to launching a successful podcast.
1:56
SPEAKER_01: In our conversation today, you'll learn why you should pay attention to podcasting, how a podcast can help your business, how to decide on a podcast format, how to avoid the pitfalls of podcasting, and much more.
2:10
SPEAKER_01: After the interview, make sure to check out the show notes at KentSanders.net slash one four nine.
2:16
SPEAKER_01: Okay, that's enough for me.
2:18
SPEAKER_01: Let's get to the conversation with my friend Jody Mayberry.
2:22
SPEAKER_01: Jody, thank you so much for taking time to be on the show today.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: I'm so thrilled about the chance to talk with you and uh appreciate your time.
2:29
SPEAKER_01: Well, Kent, this is my treat.
2:31
SPEAKER_01: Thank you so much for having me.
2:33
SPEAKER_01: So when we were setting this up, it it occurred to me that I never told you where I first heard about you.
2:40
SPEAKER_01: And this may come as a surprise, but where I first heard your name was via a online, well, it was in person, but it was a summit or some kind of conference that Mike Kim put together a couple years ago.
2:53
SPEAKER_01: And I think it was called the Influence and Impact Summit.
2:56
SPEAKER_01: Is that am I correct on that name of that gathering?
2:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, that's that's right.
3:01
SPEAKER_00: I spoke at the first one.
3:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay Yeah, and then I wasn't at the second one, but that's the name, Influence and Impact, which was an event.
3:11
SPEAKER_01: Okay, okay, so he'd let people download the the audio or the video from that or watch it.
3:16
SPEAKER_01: I I forget what the deal was.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: But anyway, I remember listening to the sessions and and I heard him introduce a gentleman named Jody Mayberry, and then you gave this session on podcasting, and honestly, my first thought was man, he has done some cool stuff.
3:31
SPEAKER_01: How come I have never heard of Jody Mayberry?
3:33
SPEAKER_01: And who is this guy?
3:35
SPEAKER_01: And and he's doing some cool stuff.
3:37
SPEAKER_01: So so yeah, and then of course, as as the couple years have passed, I've I've seen you all over the place.
3:43
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, you are the podcast man.
3:45
SPEAKER_01: I think what you're doing is really cool.
3:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you.
3:47
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I'm I am involved quite a bit in podcasting, and since the video that you saw, since that time, oh my goodness, there's been so much more.
3:57
SPEAKER_00: So I thought I knew what I was doing back then, but but so much has happened since then.
4:02
SPEAKER_00: It's it's been so fun.
4:03
SPEAKER_00: And I I do a lot of behind the scenes work for people too.
4:08
SPEAKER_00: So it's my the thing I enjoy the most about podcasting is helping other people get their voice and their message out.
4:17
SPEAKER_00: And sometimes that happens with me hosting their show, and sometimes that happens with me helping someone get the show out into the world.
4:25
SPEAKER_00: But I just I just love it helping people get their message out and their voice out into the world.
4:32
SPEAKER_01: What I think is so cool also about what you're doing is that you're not just doing behind-the-scenes work or co-hosting shows or setting up people's shows and that type of thing, but you're also doing a show yourself.
4:43
SPEAKER_01: And I think that's really important because you're on the trenches doing it yourself on a regular basis, putting out your own show, which then informs what you do for your clients, which informs what you do on your show.
4:54
SPEAKER_01: And it's kind of like this cycle of constant improvement, I'm sure.
4:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, one of the things, well, a couple of things about my show, the cleverly titled Jody Mayberry show.
5:04
SPEAKER_00: I love it though, is it allows me to experiment with formats, with conversations, with topics.
5:12
SPEAKER_00: I can mix things up, I can bring in audio clips, I can just do interviews.
5:16
SPEAKER_00: I do a lot mostly it's me solo.
5:19
SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing.
5:21
SPEAKER_00: It's an experiment, and then I can come to you and say, hey, Kent, I tried this, this is the feedback I got, or this, yeah, I it just didn't work.
5:29
SPEAKER_00: Or so that's one thing.
5:31
SPEAKER_00: And the other is that people know me quite often for the people I work with, the other shows that I host.
5:40
SPEAKER_00: And the Jody Mayberry show brings all of it together.
5:44
SPEAKER_00: In some way, it's like a behind the scenes look at what it's like to produce all these different shows and work with all these different people.
5:52
SPEAKER_00: So it's mostly me, but you do get a taste of what it's like to put all these other shows together.
5:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, absolutely, absolutely.
6:02
SPEAKER_01: So, can you give us a little bit of your of your background story about how you got into podcasting?
6:08
SPEAKER_01: Because you have a unique story coming from a background that had nothing to do with podcasting, but but then you wound up in this world, and I think it's a fascinating journey.
6:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it's quite a zigzag of a story because I I originally was a financial analyst at a commercial bank, and I was going to school for exactly or I was doing the exact work I went to school for, but it didn't take but a few years to realize that's this isn't what I want to do forever.
6:41
SPEAKER_00: So I fulfilled a boyhood dream of becoming a park ranger, and this all plays into podcasting.
6:47
SPEAKER_00: It just takes a minute to get there.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: So so I fulfilled the boyhood dream of becoming a park ranger, did that for eight years, left, ended up doing marketing for a luxury home builder all the while thinking I really miss parks, but I don't want to go back to being a park ranger.
7:05
SPEAKER_00: Then a friend of mine, Jared Easley, had a show or has a show, Starve the Doubts.
7:11
SPEAKER_00: And I'm awesome.
7:12
SPEAKER_00: Oh, Jared is wonderful.
7:14
SPEAKER_00: And he he plays so much into my podcasting story.
7:18
SPEAKER_00: I had suggested a guest to Jared, and he said, I will have this person on.
7:26
SPEAKER_00: It was James Woosley.
7:27
SPEAKER_00: I'll have James Woosley as a guest, but you have to be the co-host.
7:31
SPEAKER_00: Oh, awesome.
7:32
SPEAKER_00: I thought, oh no, but it's Jared, and I like Jared.
7:35
SPEAKER_00: I trust Jared.
7:36
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I'll do it.
7:37
SPEAKER_00: Well, we did a couple of shows together.
7:39
SPEAKER_00: He didn't have me do just that one.
7:41
SPEAKER_00: We started doing multiple shows together with me as the guest co-host.
7:46
SPEAKER_00: Well, at the same time, I was considering how can I get back into the parks world, and Jared helped me realize well, a podcast.
7:56
SPEAKER_00: I I can start the first podcast for park rangers, which, by the way, six years later is still the only podcast for park rangers.
8:04
SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: That's incredible.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: There are other park podcasts, but not podcasts for park rangers.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: So I started the park leader show, which is still going six years later.
8:16
SPEAKER_00: And the opportunity, the the whole storyline behind that is just incredible on its own.
8:22
SPEAKER_00: But I had Lee Cockrel as a guest.
8:25
SPEAKER_00: So Lee Cockrel ran Walt Disney World.
8:29
SPEAKER_00: And I wanted to talk to somebody about what parks can learn from Disney.
8:34
SPEAKER_00: And I did a Google search.
8:36
SPEAKER_00: I found the book Creating Magic.
8:37
SPEAKER_00: I saw that I didn't know who Lee was, but I saw he ran Disney World.
8:41
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, you know, this is a long shot, but I'm just going to ask if he'll come on the show and talk to Park Rangers about how to run parks like Disney.
8:51
SPEAKER_00: What I didn't know, his sister-in-law had been a park ranger for 30 years.
8:56
SPEAKER_00: So he said, Oh, of course.
8:57
SPEAKER_00: I love parks.
8:58
SPEAKER_00: I love park rangers.
8:59
SPEAKER_00: I'll do it.
9:00
SPEAKER_00: Well, the short version of that is that led to us doing a show together, creating Disney Magic, which is now closing in on 280 episodes that we've done of that show.
9:12
SPEAKER_00: Well, then that show led to another one because people heard that and said, Wow, this is really good.
9:19
SPEAKER_00: They'd reach out to me and say, Can you do for me what you do for Lee?
9:23
SPEAKER_00: And at my peak, I had eight shows going at once.
9:27
SPEAKER_00: And right now I'm down to right now, I'm down to only seven shows at once.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Only seven.
9:32
SPEAKER_00: Only seven, yeah.
9:34
SPEAKER_01: Well, I love what you're doing with the creating Disney Magic show.
9:37
SPEAKER_01: In fact, I may have mentioned this when I reached out to you.
9:39
SPEAKER_01: I just talked to Lee last week.
9:42
SPEAKER_01: So these interviews with you and him, they may not be back to back, but they'll be very close on my release schedule.
9:47
SPEAKER_01: So um, yeah, it's just amazing.
9:50
SPEAKER_01: Um, all the things that you can do with podcasting and reaching people and doing shows that for specific niches like park rangers, I love that.
9:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and here's the other thing about it is I live in a small town on the absolute edge of the United States in the state of Washington, and I now reach people all over the country, all over the world.
10:12
SPEAKER_00: Podcasting has taken me to so many places within our country.
10:16
SPEAKER_00: And last year I even went to Kuwait uh because of podcasting.
10:20
SPEAKER_00: It's it's amazing that it's you can use the platform to reach people everywhere.
10:27
SPEAKER_00: It's so much fun.
10:29
SPEAKER_01: So we have people who are listening who are so this is a show on business writing and show obviously primarily for writers, but obviously I'm a huge advocate of podcasting.
10:39
SPEAKER_01: Can you talk a bit about for those who are listening who want to start a podcast but who aren't sure about it, they're not sure it's worth the time or the investment or the effort.
10:48
SPEAKER_01: Why should people consider starting a podcast?
10:50
SPEAKER_01: How could that help their business and how could they reach people with the podcast as opposed to writing books or blogging or other types of getting their message out there?
11:00
SPEAKER_00: There's so much to just on that question alone.
11:05
SPEAKER_00: So I I will tell you my favorite piece first, and then we'll get into some of the others.
11:11
SPEAKER_00: But if as a writer, and I'm starting to write more myself, I just recently started writing uh a weekly email, and I am just I'm I'm loving it.
11:23
SPEAKER_00: After podcasting for six years, I'm finding writing allows me to tell stories in such a different way, and I'm I'm just having a blast with it.
11:32
SPEAKER_00: But they do tie in together, which maybe we'll connect those dots soon.
11:37
SPEAKER_00: But when it comes to writing, if you're reading my weekly email, you're probably sitting somewhere with your phone or at your computer reading it.
11:47
SPEAKER_00: Same with a blog post.
11:48
SPEAKER_00: If you're watching a YouTube video, you're probably the same thing.
11:53
SPEAKER_00: You're sitting there on your phone or in front of your computer.
11:56
SPEAKER_00: It's something that you've stopped everything else to do just that.
12:00
SPEAKER_00: And while it's wonderful to grab someone's attention for a moment, look what happens with the podcast.
12:07
SPEAKER_00: People listen to a podcast when they're driving to work, when they're doing the dishes, walking the dog, pulling weeds in the garden.
12:16
SPEAKER_00: Sometimes I listen to shows when I'm lying in bed.
12:19
SPEAKER_00: If I can't get to sleep, I put on a podcast.
12:22
SPEAKER_00: All of those are intimate life moments.
12:25
SPEAKER_00: So that is people inviting you into their life at some of their most intimate times, the times when they're not with other people, and they're they're choosing to be with you and have a one-on-one conversation.
12:40
SPEAKER_00: Now, yes, it is just you talking, but if you do it the right way, it feels like a conversation, and it's at times when people are doing life.
12:51
SPEAKER_00: They're if they're reading your writing, they're not doing life while they're doing it.
12:56
SPEAKER_00: If they're watching your videos, they're not commuting to work.
12:59
SPEAKER_00: I mean, maybe that happens, but it shouldn't.
13:01
SPEAKER_00: Hopefully not.
13:02
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
13:03
SPEAKER_00: So that's one of the wonderful things about podcasting, is they can get to know you as a person.
13:09
SPEAKER_00: One of the favorite things I've ever heard anyone say about the comparison between the two.
13:14
SPEAKER_00: Dan Miller, the author of 48 Days to the Work You Love, he once told me all the time at conferences, even at the airport, wherever, people will come up and say, Your book changed my life, and want to shake his hand.
13:28
SPEAKER_00: But he said, if someone comes up and gives me a hug, I know they listen to the podcast.
13:35
SPEAKER_00: That's cool.
13:35
SPEAKER_01: I've listened to his show for years.
13:38
SPEAKER_01: And um, yeah, in fact, both him and Joanne are going to be on the show next month, which I'm really excited about.
13:43
SPEAKER_01: But that's all because of the podcast.
13:45
SPEAKER_01: I would have never known about Dan except for his podcast.
13:47
SPEAKER_01: Like listening to it all these years.
13:49
SPEAKER_01: So you and I have both been impacted by his show.
13:52
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
13:53
SPEAKER_00: So let's stick with Dan Miller for a moment then.
13:56
SPEAKER_00: I listened to his podcast for years.
13:58
SPEAKER_00: So your question was, how can a podcast help your business?
14:01
SPEAKER_00: So Dan is primarily an author who also has a podcast.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
14:06
SPEAKER_00: I listened to his show for years until finally I couldn't contain it.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: And I said, I have to know Dan Miller.
14:13
SPEAKER_00: I want to meet him in person.
14:15
SPEAKER_00: And I paid money to go to his coaching and coaching with excellence event.
14:20
SPEAKER_00: Yes, to become a better coach, which I did, but primarily because I wanted to meet him in person because I had listened to his podcast.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
14:29
SPEAKER_00: So that to me is one of the biggest things.
14:32
SPEAKER_00: Now, there are other things you can do.
14:34
SPEAKER_00: You can repurpose the content from a podcast.
14:39
SPEAKER_00: You can get it transcribed.
14:40
SPEAKER_00: In fact, Lee Cockerell and I are working on a big project right now that involves all of his podcast episodes.
14:48
SPEAKER_00: That's years worth of content that can be reused for something else.
14:52
SPEAKER_00: Podcasting doesn't have to be I re record it and then move on.
14:56
SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
14:57
SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
14:58
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so there, but here's here's another thing uh how podcasting helps.
15:04
SPEAKER_00: Is most of the reasons I tell you podcasting is a good thing involves the listener.
15:09
SPEAKER_00: Why why it connects you to the listener.
15:12
SPEAKER_00: One of the things I don't talk about enough, but is probably just as important is it connects you with yourself.
15:21
SPEAKER_00: When you have the thoughts in your head and you then you have to say them out loud, some something new happens to it.
15:27
SPEAKER_00: And when you have to show up every single week and say what you believe in, you start to understand what you believe in, and you start to understand what you're for, and you get more confidence.
15:39
SPEAKER_00: And I've had podcast episodes that have turned into speeches I've given.
15:44
SPEAKER_00: Podcast episodes turn into pieces of my course.
15:48
SPEAKER_00: I've I mean it's it's really helped to know, and and then you get feedback.
15:53
SPEAKER_00: So what you start to know what you believe in, you get feedback from other people, and along the way, it just builds confidence, it builds understanding.
16:02
SPEAKER_00: And I get it that you want a lot of people to listen, but even if there's one people person listening, if Kent is the only one that listens to your podcast, you're still better off.
16:12
SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
16:14
SPEAKER_01: So one of the struggles that people seem to have with podcasting, I mean, there is a technical element, obviously, and we don't have time to go into all the 578 things you've got to do technically to set up a show.
16:24
SPEAKER_01: It's not quite that many, but it feels like it probably to some people.
16:28
SPEAKER_01: But one of the struggles that people seem to have is okay, they want to do a show about XYZ topic, whatever that topic is, but they don't know how long the show should be, what four minutes should be, if they should do solo episodes or interviews, or what format should that take.
16:44
SPEAKER_01: When you're coaching people, how do you help them walk through that question of what is the show going to be?
16:50
SPEAKER_01: The length of it, the format, interviews versus solo episodes, and all that.
16:55
SPEAKER_01: How can people make a decision about that?
16:57
SPEAKER_00: Well, there are a few different ways to look at it.
17:00
SPEAKER_00: And I have built a business unintentionally at first in helping people like Lee Cockrell, who has so much in his head, help him turn that into episodes.
17:13
SPEAKER_00: But not everybody has a Jody Mayberry to work with and and to pry that out and uh help get the content out.
17:22
SPEAKER_00: So you have to understand how do you want to do it.
17:25
SPEAKER_00: And I I like having solo shows, so you can do interview-based or monologue-based solo type episodes.
17:36
SPEAKER_00: And I think if you're going to position yourself as an authority, a solo show is a great way to do it if you've got the content.
17:44
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
17:44
SPEAKER_00: But a podcast can help you even if you don't have the content.
17:48
SPEAKER_00: And the Park Leader show is a great example.
17:50
SPEAKER_00: I didn't back then, six years ago, I didn't have enough to talk about to launch a solo show.
17:58
SPEAKER_00: At least I didn't think I did.
17:59
SPEAKER_00: Looking back, yes, I I probably did, but I didn't have the confidence in it.
18:04
SPEAKER_00: So I started an interview-based show, and what that did was it allowed me to talk about leadership and parks and conservation while making connections that have built something really incredible.
18:19
SPEAKER_00: So I would look at what what's your purpose for starting the show?
18:23
SPEAKER_00: If you want to use it as a way to make connections and build relationships, then you need to at least have an element of interviews in your show, whether it's half and half, whether it's just all interview show.
18:38
SPEAKER_00: So that's one thing to consider.
18:40
SPEAKER_00: And there is it opens up so much to do an interview-based show.
18:46
SPEAKER_00: Because I've met people, park rangers.
18:49
SPEAKER_00: If we stick with just a park leader show, I've met park rangers from all over the world.
18:53
SPEAKER_00: It's led to me getting invitations to speak.
18:56
SPEAKER_00: And just next week, I'm I'm speaking at a park conference in California.
19:02
SPEAKER_00: Five years after I launched the park leader show, I was invited to speak to all the state park directors in the United States.
19:09
SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
19:10
SPEAKER_00: That was incredible.
19:11
SPEAKER_00: For a former park ranger, I don't know if I've had a bigger honor.
19:15
SPEAKER_00: That that was incredible.
19:16
SPEAKER_00: And it came from a podcast showing up every week.
19:21
SPEAKER_00: That's an interview-based show, but it spread and people just like the message that I was getting out there.
19:29
SPEAKER_00: So part of this is deciding what do you want to accomplish from the show.
19:34
SPEAKER_00: And if you don't know, because not everybody knows, maybe interview-based is the right story, or at least half and half as you start to gain your footing.
19:43
SPEAKER_00: And when I started the Jodie Mayberry show, I was so used to interviewing people that I said, I'm going to do it half and half.
19:51
SPEAKER_00: I'm going to do an interview and then a solo, interview solo.
19:54
SPEAKER_00: Until somebody said, Hey, your show is called the Jody Mayberry show.
19:59
SPEAKER_00: I listened to it for Jody Mayberry.
20:02
SPEAKER_00: I want more of you.
20:03
SPEAKER_00: And I said, Okay, I'm just going for it.
20:05
SPEAKER_00: And now my show is primarily me with occasional interviews.
20:10
SPEAKER_01: That's fascinating.
20:12
SPEAKER_01: One of the one of the solo shows of yours that I have enjoyed the most, this came out, I think, a few months ago, and I think the title was something along the lines of Why I Ordered a Tesla Cybertruck or something like that.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
20:26
SPEAKER_01: And that really piqued my curiosity because my first thought was, Holy cow, he's getting a Tesla Cybertruck.
20:33
SPEAKER_01: That's amazing.
20:34
SPEAKER_01: But then I listened to the episode and it was totally not what I thought.
20:37
SPEAKER_01: And my first impression from a writing standpoint, and I always look at the world through a writing standpoint, I guess, was that that is genius marketing and copywriting.
20:47
SPEAKER_01: Because you you gave us a really creative, intriguing title, and it was timely because that was, I think you put that out right after they announced the Cybertruck from Tesla.
20:58
SPEAKER_01: But then on the show, it went so far beyond that because it it wasn't that you actually had purchased the whole thing.
21:04
SPEAKER_01: It was you were talking about the mindset, and you I think you only had to put$100 down toward it or something like that.
21:10
SPEAKER_01: But that was great, and just to me, proves the power of doing a solo show.
21:14
SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't that long, but it was really powerful.
21:16
SPEAKER_01: And all these months later, I still remember what that show was about.
21:19
SPEAKER_01: So that was great.
21:20
SPEAKER_00: I I was actually surprised the attention that that episode got because it it's not what I but it was, I think it was timely.
21:28
SPEAKER_00: People were probably thinking about Tesla because they had just announced the Cybertruck.
21:34
SPEAKER_00: But that's the that's the one thing about these episodes these solo episodes that has have surprised me.
21:41
SPEAKER_00: I I've done some that I think, well, nobody's gonna notice this one.
21:47
SPEAKER_00: And it gets a lot of attention.
21:49
SPEAKER_00: Like, why I ordered a Tesla Cybertruck.
21:52
SPEAKER_00: I thought, who who's gonna care that I ordered a Tesla Cybertruck?
21:57
SPEAKER_00: But people did.
21:59
SPEAKER_00: They wanted to know.
22:00
SPEAKER_00: What was behind that?
22:01
SPEAKER_00: But the there was one solo episode I did, this was years ago.
22:05
SPEAKER_00: I can't even remember how long ago.
22:08
SPEAKER_00: But it was about what one of the comments I get most if someone calls me, because I can't always answer my phone, but I have a pretty unique voice message on my phone.
22:20
SPEAKER_00: Outgoing, so if I don't answer, you still get an introduction to me.
22:26
SPEAKER_00: So I have found it's a very unique uh branding, not not even branding, just gives you a chance to get to know me, even though we didn't get to talk.
22:38
SPEAKER_00: So I thought I get such good feedback from that, I'm gonna turn this into a podcast episode.
22:43
SPEAKER_00: So I told the story of why I did it.
22:45
SPEAKER_00: I played my message, I gave examples of where I called other people and I recorded their voicemail, their outgoing message, and I gave examples of good ones and bad ones, and this is why this is good, this is why it's bad, this is what you need.
23:00
SPEAKER_00: And I thought, well, nobody's gonna care, but I'm gonna put this one out because it was kind of fun to make.
23:06
SPEAKER_00: Oh my goodness, I don't know if I've had another episode get so much feedback.
23:12
SPEAKER_00: I had people emailing me saying, I changed my voicemail just because of you, and they'd give me their phone number so I could call and listen.
23:19
SPEAKER_00: And I called every one of them.
23:21
SPEAKER_00: Anyone that said they changed their voice, I called every one of them and left them a nice message.
23:26
SPEAKER_00: But it was that's cool.
23:28
SPEAKER_00: It's uh it's an example of you can take just something very small, do a solo episode about it, and it it really captures people.
23:39
SPEAKER_00: I I know listicles are really popular, especially if you're a writer and that has spilled into podcasting.
23:45
SPEAKER_00: And every once in a while I do those, like 10 things I learned at Kennedy Space Center or something like that.
23:52
SPEAKER_00: But when you can take something rather than going really broad, what if you took just one of the things you learned at Kennedy Space Center and did a 10-minute episode on that one thing?
24:03
SPEAKER_00: I think people can they they can listen to uh a 10-minute episode about one thing and feel like they can take action.
24:10
SPEAKER_00: Where if they listen to the 10 things I learned at Kennedy Space Center, they're more likely to listen to it for the entertainment value and say, oh yeah, Jody did good with that one, but probably not do anything about it.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: I am so guilty of that.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: I was um so I used to be a pastor actually, and I I still it is ingrained in my head to think in lists.
24:30
SPEAKER_01: I don't know why that is, but I just think in three points, seven things, ten things.
24:34
SPEAKER_01: I guess that's the the writer coming out of me, but but yeah, uh I'm definitely guilty of cramming too much into an episode, and and you can chop each one of those things down and do a whole segment on it for sure.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: Now I would be remiss if I did not address a huge elephant in the room in the world of podcasting, and that is this and I love this uh this phraseology, pod fading, which is a term for people quitting their podcast after just a few episodes.
24:59
SPEAKER_01: I think the the stats that I've read before say that people oftentimes quit their podcast after seven episodes.
25:06
SPEAKER_01: As you've worked with clients and talked with a lot of people about podcasting, and as you've been with your own journey on podcasting, why do people sometimes quit after just a few episodes and how can they avoid that that hump of getting over a few episodes and sometimes quitting?
25:23
SPEAKER_00: I I have found there's three reasons people quit, and just knowing them can help you get past that seven episode hump.
25:33
SPEAKER_00: The first one is editing.
25:36
SPEAKER_00: Now, editing's not hard, but it is time consuming, and if you if you don't like that sort of thing, it can really feel like a thorn to the whole process.
25:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
25:49
SPEAKER_00: So editing is one of them.
25:51
SPEAKER_00: So keep that in mind.
25:52
SPEAKER_00: And there are options.
25:53
SPEAKER_00: If you have the resources, you can get someone to help with editing.
25:58
SPEAKER_00: So editing's one.
26:00
SPEAKER_00: The second is it gets difficult to create content every week.
26:07
SPEAKER_00: To have something to say every week.
26:09
SPEAKER_00: Now it changes a little bit if you have an interview-based show.
26:13
SPEAKER_00: But if you're doing a solo show, it can get hard to have something to say every week.
26:19
SPEAKER_00: Enthusiasm can carry you through four weeks, five weeks.
26:25
SPEAKER_00: By the time you get to seven, now you're in trouble.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
26:28
SPEAKER_00: So that's number two.
26:29
SPEAKER_00: Number three is I call it the the field of dreams myth that for some reason we as podcasters believe if I record it, he will listen.
26:40
SPEAKER_00: And that's just not true.
26:41
SPEAKER_00: It takes a while to build a listener base.
26:45
SPEAKER_00: And in fact, you don't I wasn't good when I started.
26:48
SPEAKER_00: You don't want people listening, you don't want a big crowd when you first start out.
26:53
SPEAKER_00: So it's okay that people aren't listening in the beginning.
26:56
SPEAKER_00: One of those alone isn't really enough for someone to give up, but you combine those three.
27:02
SPEAKER_00: Man, I hate editing.
27:03
SPEAKER_00: It just bogs me down with oh no, what am I gonna talk about this week?
27:09
SPEAKER_00: And then you start thinking, well, there's hardly anyone listening anyway, and then people just fade away from it.
27:17
SPEAKER_00: So I believe just knowing those in advance will help you.
27:20
SPEAKER_00: But then I also coach people through two two ways to look at it, but they kind of wrap in.
27:28
SPEAKER_00: And this this will go good with you, Kent, being a writer, is look at your podcast like a book.
27:34
SPEAKER_00: Not that you have to show up every week with something to say before you even start it.
27:39
SPEAKER_00: What think of it like 12 chapters.
27:42
SPEAKER_00: What are 12 big subjects?
27:44
SPEAKER_00: And then within those big subjects, break it down into four subtopics.
27:49
SPEAKER_00: And now, if you're gonna do an interview-based show, find someone to interview around each one of those subtopics.
27:56
SPEAKER_00: And if you're doing a solo show, then just write down what will I talk about in those.
28:00
SPEAKER_00: And now, now narrow in on the beginning and and really hit the first five episodes.
28:07
SPEAKER_00: What are those going to be?
28:08
SPEAKER_00: And then go all the way out before you even record, know what your first 10 episodes are going to be, and that gets you past the hump.
28:15
SPEAKER_00: And I I know once you get past that that hump, then it gets a lot easier.
28:21
SPEAKER_00: It gets a lot easier to get going.
28:23
SPEAKER_00: There will even come a time, it's probably different for everybody, but there will come a time where you have more to say than you have the ability to turn into episodes.
28:35
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
28:36
SPEAKER_01: And that's where I am now.
28:37
SPEAKER_01: Is I mean, my goodness, I I have probably 200 episode ideas, you know, in my Evernote files and all that stuff, but but you just don't have the time to talk about everything.
28:47
SPEAKER_01: So yeah, that's right.
28:49
SPEAKER_00: Which is exactly why I also added writing now, because I thought I've got so many stories set aside, they're never that I can't imagine they're gonna all end up podcast episodes.
29:01
SPEAKER_00: So I'm just gonna start writing them, which is what led to me now to start writing because I just enjoy telling the story and it's a new format to do so.
29:11
SPEAKER_01: Now I'm glad you mentioned coaching people just a minute ago because I wanted to ask you about your podcast magic course, which I've heard you talk about on your show before, and that is a really exciting opportunity for people to get some more specific training and coaching on podcasting.
29:25
SPEAKER_01: So, can you talk a little about what that is and how people could get connected with that?
29:30
SPEAKER_00: Yes, it's a podcast magic.
29:32
SPEAKER_00: It's it is a course that I have taken everything I've learned over six years, more than 1200 episodes, about what worked, what didn't work, how to make a conversation, and put it in this course.
29:46
SPEAKER_00: So if you hired me to coach you, this is the base of what we would talk about, is what's in this course.
29:54
SPEAKER_00: Because I realize I can't work with everybody that wants to work with me, whether that's because of time or because of cost, but I just can't reach everybody that wants help launching a show.
30:04
SPEAKER_00: So I said I'm gonna package it into a course and then I can help more people.
30:09
SPEAKER_00: But it it is specifically called podcast magic for a reason because I have realized that there is there is a magic element to podcasting, there's no magic formula, there's no script to follow, but there is an element of magic to podcasting, and that is you.
30:31
SPEAKER_00: Because if you can do a podcast in a way that brings out your unique experience, your unique stories, even if you have a show on a topic that someone else is already doing, and by now we're getting close to where almost every topic somebody's talking about it, but you can do it differently because you are you, you have your own stories.
30:54
SPEAKER_00: Even if someone else put out another show for park rangers, like the park leader show, it would be different than mine.
31:02
SPEAKER_00: Uh, because they have different park ranger experiences, and as long as they do those and try not to copy the park leader show, they're gonna have a fabulous show.
31:13
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
31:14
SPEAKER_00: And that's the difference.
31:15
SPEAKER_00: You you you are the magic, your story is your experience.
31:19
SPEAKER_00: So, yes, I show you how to launch a show in podcast magic, but I also show you how to make it unique because of you.
31:30
SPEAKER_00: And I think that's the difference in it.
31:33
SPEAKER_01: Now, people want to get started and get just a taste of the magic that you share in the course.
31:39
SPEAKER_01: They can also go to your website, correct?
31:40
SPEAKER_01: And you have a free download for them there that can walk them through some basics on how to get started with podcasting, correct?
31:47
SPEAKER_00: That's right.
31:48
SPEAKER_00: Go to jodym.com, and right there on the the website is a download called Podcast Magic, also, and that will help you understand why people give up, what you need to consider when you start, and help you map out those first 10 episodes and and then give you, I believe there's an equipment list in there as well.
32:11
SPEAKER_00: So there is enough in the download podcast magic, you you could do that and then get started on your own podcasting.
32:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, and then if you need more help, you you go for the course.
32:24
SPEAKER_00: But I think there's enough in that document that you could start from scratch and launch a show from that.
32:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and I really want to encourage people to do that because the reality is that when it comes to something like podcasting, which involves a lot of steps, I mean it's very doable, obviously, but but it is a technical process and it does require some effort that you're probably not going to figure this stuff out on your own.
32:46
SPEAKER_01: You've got to have a guide, you've got to have somebody who's walking you through this.
32:50
SPEAKER_01: When I first got into podcasting probably six or seven years ago, I went through courses by John Lee Dumas and also Pat Flynn, just free courses that they had out there.
32:59
SPEAKER_01: And um, man, they were so helpful.
33:01
SPEAKER_01: And now we've got awesome people like you, Jody, who are helping people to do this as well.
33:05
SPEAKER_01: So this has been a blast.
33:07
SPEAKER_01: I really appreciate you doing doing the show today, and um, I'm so glad we've had the opportunity to connect it.
33:13
SPEAKER_00: Oh, me too.
33:14
SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm so glad you asked me.
33:16
SPEAKER_00: This this has uh been a wonderful talk, and I think podcasting is a really good opportunity for authors, and it just it's another way to get your content out there, and there are ways if you've written a book to promote your book, if you've written articles.
33:33
SPEAKER_00: I mean, you can cross-promote, and it's podcasting is is such a great thing.
33:37
SPEAKER_00: My entire business and lifestyle has been built on the back of podcasting.
33:43
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
33:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, just before we did this uh conversation, I was downstairs in my kitchen.
33:48
SPEAKER_01: I was uh making some soup.
33:50
SPEAKER_01: So I'd sometimes make vegetable beef soup and then I freeze it and take it for my lunch and things like that.
33:56
SPEAKER_01: And as I was doing that and doing some cleanup in the kitchen, I was listening to a podcast.
34:00
SPEAKER_01: It was actually an episode, it was an old episode of Joe Rogan's show where he was talking with Jay Leno.
34:05
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, it just reminded me once again that, man, you can listen to podcasts while you're doing so many things.
34:11
SPEAKER_01: And when you put out your podcast, people can listen to you while they're doing stuff.
34:15
SPEAKER_01: So I'm really glad that you're helping us along this journey of podcasting and connecting with people in uh in a way that I think in the year 2020 is really relevant, it's very doable, and it's really, really effective.
34:28
SPEAKER_01: So thank you again so much.
34:29
SPEAKER_01: Oh, Ken, it's been great.
34:31
SPEAKER_01: Thanks for having me.
34:32
SPEAKER_01: All right, thanks so much.
34:34
SPEAKER_01: I hope you enjoyed my conversation with Jody.
34:36
SPEAKER_01: I had a blast doing this interview and uh hope that you took a lot of value away from it as well.
34:42
SPEAKER_01: Let me boil it down to my three biggest takeaways from this conversation.
34:47
SPEAKER_01: Number one, I want you to ask yourself why you haven't started a podcast yet.
34:52
SPEAKER_01: Obviously, I'm a fan of podcasting, and yes, there are some technical steps, but you can totally do it.
34:59
SPEAKER_01: Podcasting gives you the ability to connect intimately with people in a way that no other form of communication can.
35:05
SPEAKER_01: Now think about this.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: When people are reading your work, they're one step removed from the communication process.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: Your thoughts go into your words, and then your words go into that person's thoughts.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: But with podcasting, it's much more direct.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: Your words via your voice go directly to that person's heart and mind, via their ears.
35:27
SPEAKER_01: The listener feels your emotions as you talk or tell stories.
35:31
SPEAKER_01: They hear your voice and they connect with you in a way that they can never do through writing alone.
35:36
SPEAKER_01: And this is why I think writing and podcasting should be combined, just like I'm doing on this show, and how I'm repurposing content in both mediums and more.
35:45
SPEAKER_01: Remember what Jody said.
35:47
SPEAKER_01: People want to hear you and your perspective.
35:51
SPEAKER_01: Podcasting is a great way to do that.
35:53
SPEAKER_01: Takeaway number two, take the initiative and reach out to people.
35:59
SPEAKER_01: Jody was doing his park leader show, and he reached out to Lee Cockrell to be a guest on that podcast.
36:05
SPEAKER_01: And then that relationship ended up creating a great business partnership where Jody co-hosts a podcast with Lee, who's very well known in the business community.
36:15
SPEAKER_01: And that has led to a bunch of other cool things for Jody.
36:18
SPEAKER_01: And that's exactly what I have done with this podcast.
36:21
SPEAKER_01: I have reached out to people who I perceive are many times far out of my league as far as their business and influence and success.
36:29
SPEAKER_01: And the cool thing is that the vast majority of the time, those guests say yes to being on the show.
36:36
SPEAKER_01: And those relationships can lead to other things down the road potentially.
36:40
SPEAKER_01: So is there someone that you want to talk to or connect with?
36:43
SPEAKER_01: If so, I want to encourage you to take the initiative and reach out to that person.
36:48
SPEAKER_01: All they can do is say no.
36:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they're not going to come to your house and you know beat you up or yell at you or scream at you or something like that.
36:55
SPEAKER_01: All they can do is say no, and if they don't want to talk to you, they'll just ignore you.
37:00
SPEAKER_01: So the worst that can happen is that you'll just get ignored.
37:03
SPEAKER_01: So it's definitely worth the effort.
37:06
SPEAKER_01: It's worth the investment of two seconds to connect with that person that you want to reach out to on social media or email or whatever form that takes.
37:14
SPEAKER_01: Be assertive, take initiative, and don't wait for success to come to you.
37:19
SPEAKER_01: You've got to go take it and you've got to take the initiative.
37:22
SPEAKER_01: Takeaway number three, avoid the podcasting pitfalls that Jody mentioned.
37:27
SPEAKER_01: Now he mentioned three specific pitfalls, and these are editing, the difficulty of creating weekly content, and thinking people will automatically listen to the show just because you put it out there.
37:40
SPEAKER_01: Now I can vouch that all three of these things are real problems that you have to contend with as a podcaster.
37:46
SPEAKER_01: And the reality is that it does take time to create content.
37:49
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it doesn't just come as you snap your fingers, you have to sit down and create that content.
37:55
SPEAKER_01: And editing shows is honestly a pain in the behind.
37:58
SPEAKER_01: There's no other way to put that.
38:00
SPEAKER_01: Now, you can pay people to do it, which is always an option, but any way you slice it, you're gonna either have to pay somebody or you're gonna have to do the editing yourself.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: And also the reality is that it does take time to build an audience.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: You can put a podcast out there, and just because it's out there doesn't mean anybody's gonna listen to it.
38:18
SPEAKER_01: You have to market it, you have to promote it, you have to be consistent with it, and all those kinds of things.
38:23
SPEAKER_01: So, for example, right now, uh as I'm recording this, it is 2.53 p.m.
38:29
SPEAKER_01: on Sunday afternoon.
38:31
SPEAKER_01: It's warm outside, it's in the mid to high 50s, and I really would love to get outside to go for a hike and go for a run, but I'm committed to getting this episode done here in the next 30 minutes or so, editing it, tagging it, uploading it, putting it on my website on all the things that are required to get this episode out there.
38:49
SPEAKER_01: And that is simply the cost of being a podcaster or of being any kind of a person who creates content and puts it out there.
38:56
SPEAKER_01: It does cost you time, it does cost energy.
38:58
SPEAKER_01: It's going to take something for you to do this.
39:01
SPEAKER_01: But again, that's that's the price of having a podcast.
39:06
SPEAKER_01: But it's also the advantage, it's also the opportunity because you're creating this thing and you can put it out there and people can be blessed by it, you can get business from it, you can develop connections and relationships and all those awesome things that come with doing a podcast.
39:22
SPEAKER_01: But if you're not prepared for those pitfalls, you know, if if you're not prepared for the editing that that's gonna happen, if you're not prepared for the time that's required to set up your show and do the technical stuff and be consistent with your release schedule, if you're not prepared with those things, you're going to get discouraged about you know seven or ten episodes in and you're probably gonna quit if you're not ready for those things.
39:45
SPEAKER_01: So again, just be prepared and avoid the podcasting pitfalls that Jody mentioned.
39:51
SPEAKER_01: Well, my friend, I hope you enjoy this interview.
39:54
SPEAKER_01: I loved connecting with Jody.
39:55
SPEAKER_01: He is an awesome guy, and I really appreciated him taking time to be on the show.
40:00
SPEAKER_01: I want to also encourage you to check out his website at jodymer.com.
40:04
SPEAKER_01: There will be a link in the show notes, and to get his free guide on starting a podcast.
40:09
SPEAKER_01: It's really great, and I promise it'll really help save you some time if you're going to launch your own show.
40:14
SPEAKER_01: As always, I know I say this every episode, but I'm gonna keep saying it because uh I want to bless you and I want to give you resources and help you in your journey.
40:23
SPEAKER_01: You can always find more resources for writers and creative professionals at my site, which is KentSanders.net.
40:31
SPEAKER_01: Until next time, remember that your writing has the power to change people's lives.
40:36
SPEAKER_01: I'll see you in the next episode.