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Fake It Till You Make It: Elena Chieri on Leaving Corporate to Found a Business · Entrepreneur Odyssey

• Tejneet Selhi: Hello everybody and welcome back to the Entrepreneur Odyssey. I'm your host, Tejneet Selly, and this is the show where we sit down with founders who've actually done the hard yards. So you don't have to learn every single lesson the painful way. Before we dive into today's episode, a quick shout out to our sponsor AI Efficacy, who help their customers gain efficiencies and grow their businesses through smart and personalized workflows. Now on to today's guest. Today's guest is Elena Caterina-Cherry, founder of ECStruxure. Stream Marketing and PR, a boutique agency covering travel, hospitality, hospitality tech, pet services, fashion, property, and she's built entirely on the trusted network of freelancers, which is absolutely brilliant. And I know that we can learn so much from you today, and welcome to the show. Elena Chieri: Thank you for having me. I'm excited to be here. Tejneet Selhi: We're excited to talk to you and dive deeper. So now, when we, so as the listeners of our podcast have been listening a while, you'll know that I always do a bit of a pre-chat with my guests just to get to know them a little bit more. And one thing Eleanor said in our pre-chat was, Fake it till you make it, which felt a little bit jarring at the big American corporates, but became a reality as a founder. What decisions did you make that you made in the dark that turned out right, would you say? Elena Chieri: Well, I think, the first one is starting the business. I was in corporate, I had a career, pretty established career. I was going places, if you wanna say it this way, and Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: I just I I am I'm a big talker. I love talking to people. I love for people to come to me with, problems like to make you laugh. This Saturday, we went out with some friends and one of them who is new to the group just come came up to me and he manages this sports center and he was asking me questions about marketing. I loved it. So we spent half of the time talking about marketing for sports centers, which was so funny. And my partner was just looking at me going, Why would you do that? on Tejneet Selhi: you Elena Chieri: a Saturday night, don't talk about work. But it's just a passion of mine. And I think because of a lot of these conversations, it always sparked into me the will to do more and not just stop into my little corporate job. which is why I then started as a freelancer myself, alongside my corporate job. And it's it's scary, taking the leap, it's scary. you don't know, how you're gonna maintain yourself. And unless you manage to get this massive funding, you are working a long, very long hours into the evening to start, jumpstart something, especially if you have a product that you need to build. And then when it's time to do that to take that leap, it's scary because you don't get you you have no assurance that that the month to month paycheck is coming in. And I think Tejneet Selhi: No, Elena Chieri: it goes down to confidence at the end of the day. And and though I work with a lot of founders myself, the My business is built on the desire to help founders grow, whether it's just through a chat or through actually enable them through services to get where they want to. But a lot of the time, it's it's terrifying. And it's not for everybody. Tejneet Selhi: Absolutely. Elena Chieri: It's not for everybody because as I said, fake it till you make it, it's a thing. there'll be months where Tejneet Selhi: you Elena Chieri: you're looking at your balance and you're thinking, Why am I doing this? If I had a corporate job, this would not be happening. me panicking at night would not be happening. But the rewards that you get from it, it's it's big and it's it's possibly the biggest thing you could potentially get. so yeah, I think that was probably the biggest uncertainty decision I've taken. And since then, little ones here and there. They come every day, I knew nothing about accounting for business. So half of the time I was like trying to get the information and there's a lot of information out there. But what is Tejneet Selhi: that. Elena Chieri: really good information compared to, trying to sell you something, it's a very different story. And, it takes time to build that. And yeah, I think, as you said, it's it's funny because when you somebody tells fake it till you make it, you're looking at them thinking, well that shouldn't be the case. But But I think Tejneet Selhi: No, exactly. We should know everything, right? Especially as women, we should know it all, but... It's Elena Chieri: Absolutely. Tejneet Selhi: not the case when you're just starting out. It really isn't. Yeah. Elena Chieri: No. And it's look, what, four years in, trying to build keep building the business and stuff, it it's a continu it doesn't stop. yes, you get more confident, you get better roots, you get a better foundation, but you're still fighting on a day to day basis yes, the Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: fight is not as full of pressure, but it's still there and and it's the drive. So you have to see it not so much as the challenge but as the driving motion behind what you do in many ways. Tejneet Selhi: So, you you mentioned there that you were in a comfortable corporate job and you're doing this alongside your corporate job. So then what made you decide, you know what, easy stream is where I want to go and I want to do this and do it full time. What made you suddenly make that leap? Elena Chieri: so a few things. so first of all, well, build when I built a business, that was what I wanted. I soon I was working in corporate, I had already 10 years of experience at my behind me. I went from a consultancy position into an actual in-house position. then I tried different things because in life you should always try different things to see what suits you. I tried e-commerce. Did not work for me, made some really great friends actually that I now still work as freelancers Tejneet Selhi: now. Elena Chieri: for me for the business. And it's, I think for me, the deal breaker was well, I was working on a few things, and I basically, even in the ha in-house position, I was managing six brands. And so it didn't feel like an in-house position traditionally, in the sense, it felt more like A agency position because every brand had different audiences, different markets, etc. And bearing in mind I was looking after 42 countries and talking to globally more countries. So there was a lot of work in the pre in the place, but once I settled in and I got things running, it just became a day-to-day job, like where I was just managing staff and just Doing the same things over and over again, like newsletters and this and that. And it lost a little bit of that challenge aspect for me. And I Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: am one of those people that give me a new project, give me a new challenge, something that I've not done before, and I will be the happiest person ever. because I will do the research, I will put in the time. And that is where my passion lies. So I decided, I saw I started getting bored, which is never a good sign. Tejneet Selhi: No. Elena Chieri: And I did mention this to my manager at the time. He I think he thought I was exaggerating maybe a little bit. I just wanted more responsibilities, but I I I was genuinely just I felt like we were going I was going through the motions. So because my contract, I was lucky enough, there was an in house contract without any kind of non competitive rule, I actually managed to start freelancing. And as I was freelancing, I soon realized. Why am I now making this into a business? I'm getting great results. A lot of my clients are really happy. Why am I not starting that? And that's when then I started having conversations with people in the travel industry where I was working, but also friends and other people that I knew were in other industries. And one of the biggest things that came back from my conversation with decision makers was that, they go to, they go online, they get told, this is the come we have this much budget, we need to do this. Go on, this is the budget, decide what to do with it. And they would go online, type Tejneet Selhi: you Elena Chieri: a few sentences, and then they would just pretty much pick the first thing that they felt was the right choice. And it's a bit of a shot in the dark for them. So Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: as we were talking, and in a lot of their when they were getting into more details about what they were trying to do, it came very clear to me that in a lot of these circumstances, they could have opted for different approaches. that were maybe less costly or even that would allow them to spread the their budget across multiple platforms, which in Tejneet Selhi: Mm-hmm. Elena Chieri: in in return would give them potentially a bigger ROI because if you are diversifying, your no don't put your all of your eggs in the in your one one basket, right? That's Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, yeah, 101. Elena Chieri: So, when I was having this conversation, I was pointing this out, somebody, multiple people started saying to me, I wish there was somebody that I could just reach out to and say, I want to do this, but I don't know how to do it. So that's where Easy Stream started taking shape. I started thinking, I really want to be able to give be that person where somebody knows that they can come to me and I will give them a the honest answer. And then I don't particularly care whether they then decide to keep the services with me. Or go and and do it in-house, for example. I do work with a lot of those clients. They come to us, they talk to us, we put together a strategy, and then we give up we give back the strategy and do a touch point in six months and see how they were they're doing, right? When I decided to take the leap, well, I registered a company and I started building on there. And then about four or five months in, some unsavory things have happened. Let's leave it to that. And I said to myself, it it's true, I'm comfy here, I can do pretty much what I want in some ways, but I really want to spend my energy, my effort, and my focus on to building something that means something to me. And that's Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: when yeah, when I made the leap and yeah. Thank you. Tejneet Selhi: Well, congratulations, because it is a leap and it is scary, but it's also so exciting and so much fun. And one thing when I speak to other founders, and I include myself in this actually, is missing the human component, right? And the soundboard of colleagues. How do you fill that gap now? Elena Chieri: networking. you build, so I think it's all about finding like-minded people. So I'm very lucky, my family's close by, and until recently I my mom was pretty much with me 24-7. And now we have a bit of space, which it's nice, but I think I think we miss each other sometimes. but we still talk on a weekly basis. I think that is really important. You need to have a support system. it's not like a mandatory requirement, but having that. That support system helps you massively, especially when you are first starting. And then the other thing is don't be afraid of going to networking events. There's so many free ones out there that can make you at least get started. And a lot of them are in the evening. So, or on a Friday mor early morning for coffee. And you can go, you meet other founders. And that's how you start building that kind of and and bridging that gap, really. You meet People that are like-minded, they know what you're going through. They are going through it themselves or are maybe a little bit ahead of you or even behind. And and all of this really helps because you can actually share experiences. These people are not out to get you. sometimes this is what happens in corporate, you're a bit scared about sharing too much with people that are your level or lower because you or even higher because you're like, what if they want my job? Whereas Tejneet Selhi: Right, exactly. It's competitive and it's not, yeah. and not always, not always in corporate, but it can be, it can be. I, yeah. Elena Chieri: And look, yeah, and and the thing is, even as an entrepreneur, you will end up talking to your competition. But the best part Tejneet Selhi: Get in the car. Elena Chieri: is I know a lot of people that work in competing businesses that are still really good friends and that bridge that gap on a weekly basis. So, Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: it's It's really also the type of person that you are. I'm very chatty and very easily distractable. So I always I I I have a few friends that are founders as Tejneet Selhi: Thank Elena Chieri: well and they always like, let's do a day where we just sit in an office and co work and I'm like, see if I do that, I will end up talking so much and just not do any work. I already know. So, Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: because I am this type of person and which works great when I go to networking events or to, fing fairs Tejneet Selhi: Yay. Elena Chieri: and stuff, but when you're trying to get through work it can be challenging. So Tejneet Selhi: Absolutely. Elena Chieri: It's knowing yourself but also if I miss the human component. So, make it out for lunch, meet these people, go for coffee and and just be very honest and open and don't be scared to ask those questions. I think that is really Tejneet Selhi: Thank you. Elena Chieri: key. Tejneet Selhi: That's a really good point that you touch on because I've been going to a few networking events recently and I agree actually even competitors are so supportive because we all know how hard it is to start your own business. I haven't found really that in fact a quote unquote competitor of mine, I wouldn't even call her that, I'd call her more of a friend. She invited me to do a co-event with her recently and And that was great. It was really, really lovely. And because we want to support each other, we want to help. I think there's enough space in the market for sure. So you mentioned earlier that you speak to a lot of founders and you're helping a lot of founders with their marketing in general. What's the advice you find yourself repeating to founders you mentor? Elena Chieri: less is more, hilariously. So I find Tejneet Selhi: This is more interesting than anything. Elena Chieri: as a marketeer, social media, communications, whatever you want to call me, practitioner, I I understand, we are in a world that's so intricately connected, right? Social media has been a game changer for the past what 10, 12 years, 15. and it's not gonna stop, it's only gonna grow. And I know when you're starting a business, the The first thing you think is, I need to be out there. Everybody needs to talk to me. So, whereas I do appreciate that, I think there's two things. Well, first, less is more, but secondly, also work smarter, not harder. This is like my mantra in life. And I don't, and I used to use it in corporate as well when I had reportees. I used to literally remember having phone calls with them, like where they were super stressed. And I was like, Why are you doing this? Work smarter, not harder, reuse, reuse. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: and One of the reasons, one of the biggest things I say to s a lot of my clients at the moment is, they build a business and their first reaction is I should be on all platforms. Well, I Tejneet Selhi: Hmm. Elena Chieri: appreciate that, but do you really? It's like think about your product. Who do you really want to talk to? And think about the different platforms you have and whether there is a point in even bothering or not. It's as founders, we w compare ourselves a lot of the time to big companies, big large companies that have millions, in the bank and that have thousands of employees, or the startup that's had massive success in the last six months, And I appreciate that. And it's good to do it because it gives you a benchmark of where you want to be. But that's the word, you want to be in the future. You're not there yet. And I think, A lot of when I go to like I was working with a few b brands, for example, and one of them was a B2C brand and they were on everything, LinkedIn. They were posting on LinkedIn all the time. And I appreciate why you're doing it, but my argument Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: was you're spending so much time creating this content calendar posting and it's stressing you out because I know this is stressful like creating content. Exactly, exactly, especially Tejneet Selhi: It does take so much time to create content. Elena Chieri: if you want high level content and a lot Tejneet Selhi: them. Elena Chieri: of and for some people it's fun and they are, happy to do it. But when you're a founder and you have to prioritize, it tends to and look, I've done it. I've had months in the past where I was so busy that social media, my accounts were not even a thing that I was thinking of. now I'm a bit better and that there's a fine line with what you want to do. And and being on all the platforms is not necessarily gonna be what you wanna do, So think targeted. this is why I say to my clients, if you are selling to a to if you're selling a a product that's high-end, that is for women, and that were that basically it's like over the age of 30, you don't Tejneet Selhi: Mm. Elena Chieri: necessarily care about being on TikTok. And you are wasting so much time making content that is suitable for TikTok because we all know it's videos, and don't get me wrong, videos are the future, but we'll get we'll get there when we get there. But you're Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: building onto spending so much time onto that that you could effectively spend maybe on leads generation in a different way, partnering up, Tejneet Selhi: Thank you. Elena Chieri: improving your product. And so I always say, before you get all excited and start building 20 different pages for your for your account, think about whether having that post on LinkedIn, how many people are gonna see? Is it worth there? It's a business platform. Is are you talking Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: to businesses? So I think this is the key. It's like sometimes we are we tend to overdo it because we see, as I said, bigger companies they do it. But they can. They can afford to do it. They have staff Tejneet Selhi: they afford to. Exactly, exactly. But you're right, it's so important to understand your client base and then do your marketing and be on the right channels for your specific client base. That's huge. And actually on that, your client base is so incredibly diverse. Travel, hospitality, pet food, et cetera, so many. How did that happen? Was it organic or through your freelancer network? Elena Chieri: So hilariously, it was pretty much organic. So I, as I said, most of my experience li used to lie in travel. I've worked in travel hotels, hospitality. So I was str going through that direction. Then COVID happened and it made me rethink a little bit things. And again, as I mentioned earlier, I am one of those people that I love a new challenge, right? And I had experience working with charities as well in the past. where where I was very young and I I actually like love it. I think some of the work that some of these NGOs do, it's absolutely incredible and fantastic. And I'm not talking about the big ones. I really love when it's a tiny charity that few people have heard about. I love working with them because they're so passionate. And that is and that's Tejneet Selhi: I might have to speak to you about a couple of charities I work with. Elena Chieri: perfect, please. No, but this is it. It's like I just I just think this is important. And one of the things that I love is speaking to founders and see the passion that comes out of them when they talk about their baby. Let's call it their baby, right? It's it's just a complete different ballpark. They are really invested, they really want it to work, they are willing to work with you to do what they can. Whereas, you big corporation, we've all done it, they're there to sign the you're there for the The pay, you do your job, you do it well. You probably care if you're like me. I used to go above and beyond. And you're probably one of the few, but good for you. But this is but the passion that comes out when you're doing what you really love, it's incredible, scary and all, but the passion is there. And I think, Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: as you said, it's it's an interesting conversation. And my I just never say no. I I've always had this approach. it's actually a saying from my grandma you always used to say, when a door shuts, a bigger one opens. You just need to be willing to walk through it. And I think that is it, and this goes back to what we were saying. It's scary, it's terrifying to some extent. But if you are even willing to look at the possibility, it can open so many new ro routes, right? And I say this to my friends as well when they are looking for new jobs or they get approached for a new job and I think it's it's just that. So that's pretty much what happened. I was having a conversation with a friend. It was so funny. So I started, I had my first travel client, who's still a client, by the way. we work really closely together. it's been going for years now. And I was I went for a coffee with this person that I meet. And this is really key, I think, here for founders. If you can, your network is your best friend. Meet people, whether it's people Tejneet Selhi: Hmm. Elena Chieri: from previous jobs, people that you've met at an event, reach out. People are willing to talk to you. Even if it's not necessarily related to what you do, you might be surprised in what doors they could have open for you. And it's just good to have that conversation because if people have that conversation, they know what you do and chances are they'll have a conversation with another person two months from now and they'll be like, I know somebody you should meet. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: It's just about that. It's that we are in a world where computers, AI, well, yes, they fail us sometimes, but we're so dependent. But we always Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: and I say this from a marketing perspective. marketing nowadays, we're competing with the likes of AI, so But at the end of Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, indeed. Elena Chieri: the day It's the human component that's gonna make your business grow. It doesn't matter if you have a SaaS platform, it doesn't matter if you work in tech, it doesn't matter if you sell jewelry online, it's still gonna be that that helps you build a business. And exactly. Exactly. So, yes, so Tejneet Selhi: Yes, people buy some people, ultimately. Yeah, very true. Elena Chieri: I I did have a conversation with this lovely guy. his name is Salmon Moore. He is a psychologist. he's absolutely like His mind is fascinating. He's such a n very knowledgeable person. He's lovely. And he had just started this podcast with the old female captain of the Chelsea team, Katie Chapman. And Tejneet Selhi: wow. Elena Chieri: they started this podcast called What's Your Goal? and it's about helping fam helping young children, well young adults, I should say, not children, with and their families understand what it really means to be in football and not just, I'm kicking a ball on playing, it's my Saturday, But what Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: it means for your mental health, especially when you're getting to the point where you're competing, maybe for a spot in the team. or what what happens when you have an injury? And it was so fascinating to me because I am not a sporty person whatsoever. but it's still really fascinating how nobody's ever thought about that. So I helped them Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Elena Chieri: place the podcast, and from then on it's just grown, as I said. I've had I've been talking and we had a few people approaching me on on LinkedIn as well, asking me, you what I was doing and stuff. I and that's how I go into pet services. I have a pet myself, I have a dog, and connections through that also open doors. It's incredible. We Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Elena Chieri: are so interlinked. And Tejneet Selhi: search. Elena Chieri: we can actually my business is a B2B business, which makes it a little bit harder sometimes, but it's still parts of the passion. When it's, consumers, you're a lot more dependent on when you're sorry, selling to consumers, you're a lot more dependent on social media, website, internet, etc. Especially nowadays. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Yeah. Yeah. Elena Chieri: But with this said, I work with another founder. I can give you this other example. I've worked with we're really good friends actually still after working together. She has this sustainable women underwear brand. It's incredible what she does. she saws all the prototypes herself. she's incredible, I swear. And She was realizing that she wasn't getting through that message with social media. she d she gets good results, but she wasn't getting what she wanted. So we were having a chat at a coffee. It was so funny. And I said, Why don't you partner up with maybe some small boutique stores, So she started. She took a few days, went different shops that she thought fit what she was trying to do, and she got a few partnerships going and it's going great for her, Tejneet Selhi: Yeah. Fantastic. I love that. I love that. And that's the kind of advice that founders can get from working with you. And I think that that's really important to say. I've got a few more questions left. Elena Chieri: Of course. Tejneet Selhi: We are, fast approach in our time, it goes so quickly. But I think we have to talk about AI, you touched on it there. And I wanted to understand where you draw the line between AI helping and AI getting in the way, right? Because I think we all agree that it's here to stay and it's a tool, but how are you leveraging it within your business? Elena Chieri: Yeah. I think you s y to start with, you're absolutely right. It's here to stay. And if you don't it's one of those things whether it's swim or sink, basically. If you don't embrace it and start using it, eventually you're gonna be left behind. So very honest that there's no you can love it, you can hate it, but that is the reality of of it. so I think, I personally like AI in the sense that it's very useful for a founder. AI, especially when you're just a one-man band or a few people, and especially when you don't have what we were saying, that human contact where you can actually bounce off ideas. AI is your best friend. you can ask it literally whatever, and it will actually give you information. Now, key is setting it up properly. I always say this: like AI, the way it's built, it will always at its base form, it will always try to tell you that you're right. So Unless you want a yes person, and some people like that, great. But if you don't, if you want the reality, the reality check that you would get from a human, you have to go in the settings and change that. And I think that is the first way you don't get it in your way. Because if it starts just telling you you're doing the right thing and then you don't get results, you are getting in your own way somehow by not telling it, be critical about this. Tejneet Selhi: Yes. Elena Chieri: I think, anything that can be, like for example. I a lot you can ask AI to c generate these files for you. if you're trying to get trackers and you are stuck. So for example, accounting, right? It's unless you come from an accountant background, which I'm sure not a lot of founders do. sh sh some will for sure. But if you don't, Tejneet Selhi: you. Elena Chieri: it's a minefield. you don't know, to get Tejneet Selhi: Thank you. Absolutely. Elena Chieri: You get all these figures, you get told all these things, and then you have to remember to do your your company house statement, and then you have your taxes, and the dates can get really mingled up quite fast. So AI, if you ask it to, he will put together all of these information. You couldn't c ask him to do a downloadable sheet that can actually be really useful. So things like that that actually help you make your own life easier. That is where AI shines in my opinion. AI the Tejneet Selhi: Absolutely. Elena Chieri: the way AI gets into the way is wherever human wherever there needs to be a human component to it. And I think it goes down to your brand's information, such as, if you're trying to write a blog article, go for AI, but then review it. Don't let it just don't just copy and paste it. It will not Anything that's got to do with irony, you wanna be ironic? If your brand wants to be ironic, forget about AI. AI will not get Exactly. Yeah. Tejneet Selhi: No, no, no, it doesn't upset irony right now. Right now, I say, because it's quick learning. But on the point you mentioned about having AI critique your work, so a great bit of advice, I think anyway, that was given to me and I now give to my clients is when you've got an idea, Put it, whether you use Claude, ChatGPT, Gemini, any of them, say to AI, want five critics within the industry to give me their feedback, both pros and cons. And then you're going to get a really balanced view of the idea that you're trying to go with. And then you can make a better decision, I think. So, yeah. Elena Chieri: Absolutely. But also I think something else to bearing in bear in mind is there's so many platforms out there and not every platform is good at the same thing. Chat GPT was the first one and it's really good for personal stuff. I will I've seen some CVs that's been reviewed and updated by ChatGPT. They are incredible. They really good job. But the moment you ask him to write a blog article, your blog article is terrible. So, it's it's all about finding that. If you're doing research, perplexity is your platform. perplexity is incredible for research. I am so jealous of students in university right now because I wish I had that Tejneet Selhi: Thank Elena Chieri: and all the sources listed. I remember the books and stuff. Tejneet Selhi: that. Elena Chieri: I'm not telling students to cheat. Please do not cheat on your XS but Tejneet Selhi: No, I'm not. But it's okay to use things as an aid, but you've got to still have your own opinion, right? You've got to still be able to talk about a subject, especially if you're writing a thesis or whatever. yeah. Elena Chieri: Yeah. Absolutely. And I think even as a founder, that applies, you still need to be true to yourself, too, true your brand. You are the founder. You represent the brand. So it's good to be able to get a third party opinion. And I always say this like I'll ask AI for its opinion. I think it's a great way of starting to think about things, but it's always good to have what we were saying, bridge that gap, find another founder that you are friends with. And I promise you, everybody will want to be friends with you. people that are entrepreneurs love sharing and love getting opinions. And it's really interesting, just one last thing, I know we're running out of time, regarding the the founders is it's interesting. You'll start your journey and you'll meet people that are so much ahead of you, and you'll feel you'll feel like the new student, the new, like the new classmate, and people are trying to show you things, and they'll be willing to share because it's nice. But when you get to A little bit higher up and there'll be a new person joining in that you are willing to engage with, you will understand because you will be in that position where you are mentoring and it's a great way to understand how far you've gone. It's incredible. Tejneet Selhi: Yeah, yeah, there's actually a... a group called Grow London where you can become a mentor and actually be mentored by other mentors. Obviously you have to be in London, but I'm sure there must be national versions of that. yeah. And oh my gosh, we have run out of time, but this has been such a delight, Eleanor. One very, very quick question is what would you tell the version of yourself five years ago, or four and a half years ago, about whether to take the leap or not. Elena Chieri: Yes, I I would just tell her go for it. It's as I said, if anything, it's it's the most rewarding you'll feel in your life. Even if it doesn't work out, you still can say I've done it. And I think I think not a lot of people can say that, And and I think that is the key. It's don't come in thinking if I fail it's gonna be bad. Try and make it really, really work. And it it will bring reward either way. And by the way It's so important. We learn more from our fail failures than from our success. So Tejneet Selhi: That's so incredibly true. There's a podcast I listen to religiously by Elizabeth Day called How to Fail. And it's all about people coming with their three biggest failures and how they've grown, how they've learned because life is not all rainbows and sunshine as we know. Elena Chieri: Not at all. No. Tejneet Selhi: But know, and it's been such a delight and I could have spoken to you for hours. Elena Chieri: Same, thank you. Tejneet Selhi: We'll have to meet up for that coffee as we're not far. Elena Chieri: Anytime, any time. Tejneet Selhi: But that is a wrap on today's conversation with Elena. But as I mentioned, Elena is the founder of EC Stream Marketing and PR. And a huge thanks to her for being so open about the isolation of a founder life and actually being open to network and grow your relationships to help grow your business really. and actually having other founders as sounding boards as well. So look, if today's episode struck a chord, hit subscribe so you don't miss the next one. thanks again to AI Efficacy, our show sponsors. Until next time, this has been the Entrepreneur Odyssey, and see you soon. And thank you so much, Eleanor. Elena Chieri: My pleasure any time.