Latest / SEA of Startups / 🎙EP 5: Sleeping Giant: Why the Philippines Might Be Southeast Asia’s Next Startup Powerhouse

Transcript

🎙EP 5: Sleeping Giant: Why the Philippines Might Be Southeast Asia’s Next Startup Powerhouse · SEA of Startups

• 0:00
  Hey everyone,
• 0:02
  it's Kim Yo,
• 0:03
  and I've been looking forward to sharing this conversation with
• 0:07
  you.
• 0:08
  SPEAKER_00: You know,
• 0:08
  we spend a lot of time talking about the fleshy unicorns and
• 0:13
  the big billion dollar
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_00: rounds in this region.
• 0:16
  SPEAKER_00: But some of the most interesting insights,
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_00: they come from the people who've been in the trenches for years.
• 0:24
  SPEAKER_00: watching the markets evolve and making tough calls,
• 0:28
  SPEAKER_00: and honestly,
• 0:29
  just getting their hands dirty with the reality of building in
• 0:33
  Southeast Asia.
• 0:35
  SPEAKER_00: And that's exactly what you get in this conversation with JDL.
• 0:41
  This conversation leaks into conservative investors learning to
• 0:45
  take risks.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_00: Founders who can pitch beautifully but just can't execute.
• 0:53
  SPEAKER_00: And why?
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_00: Sometimes a $5,000 check teaches you way more than a $5 million wine.
• 1:02
  It's sharp,
• 1:03
  it's honest,
• 1:04
  and it's packed with takeaways for anyone navigating emerging
• 1:08
  markets.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_00: So grab your coffee, settle in,
• 1:14
  and let's get real about what's actually happening 7,641
• 1:18
  islands away from Silicon Valley.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Let's dig in.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: All right,
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: welcome back to Sea of Startups,
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_01: the show where Southeast Asia's startup game gets real.
• 1:41
  SPEAKER_01: No puff pieces,
• 1:42
  SPEAKER_01: just unfiltered stories from the builders,
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: backers,
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_01: and bold thinkers shaping the region's future.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: Now today we're zooming in on the Philippines.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: It's a market that's had its share of boom, boss, quiet wins.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: And now I think that there's a new wave,
• 1:57
  intentional building and some fantastic entrepreneurs coming
• 2:00
  out of there.
• 2:01
  And there's no better person to help me unpack it than Joseph
• 2:04
  de Leon or JDL as
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: some of you may actually know him as.
• 2:09
  A veteran in the industry has a whole bunch of different hats
• 2:13
  that he's wearing all
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_01: at the same time.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_01: So Joseph, thanks for coming and welcome to the show.
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_02: Kevin, privileged and happy to be here, my friend.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: Very cool.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I gave a very quick sort of overview,
• 2:27
  but maybe you can give a quick intro on yourself and the many
• 2:30
  hats that make up
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: JDL.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: Sure.
• 2:33
  SPEAKER_02: So Kevin, I'm glad that you've heard my spiel before.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_02: I do wear a number of hats,
• 2:38
  but they are all actually on my head pointed in the same
• 2:42
  blessed direction.
• 2:44
  SPEAKER_02: I found that my mission in life
• 2:46
  is to help founders of firms of different sizes become as
• 2:50
  valuable as possible in
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_02: alignment with their own values.
• 2:55
  SPEAKER_02: At the multinational and regional large scale,
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_02: I'm a partner in an M&A advisory called Gravitas Prime.
• 3:02
  SPEAKER_02: You've never heard of us because we're very discreet.
• 3:04
  If you're in the Philippines,
• 3:05
  you might know some of the deals we help set up.
• 3:08
  SPEAKER_02: We help sell Yellow Cab, Red Ribbon, Goldilocks.
• 3:10
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a more global audience, you might know our roots.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_02: We're the
• 3:15
  SPEAKER_02: stepchild of a larger investment bank from the U.S.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_02: called Hambrick & Quist.
• 3:20
  And if you've never heard of them,
• 3:22
  you might know some of the firms they helped IPO.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_02: H&Q is the firm that helped launch Apple, Amazon, and Genentech.
• 3:29
  SPEAKER_02: They had an Asia-Pacific arm,
• 3:31
  SPEAKER_02: and the Philippine contingent of that arm,
• 3:33
  SPEAKER_02: when there was a merger in the U.S.,
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_02: the Philippine contingent decided to shift to doing sell-side advisory,
• 3:42
  SPEAKER_02: and they set up Gravidus Prime.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_02: Currently,
• 3:45
  Gravitas Prime is the buy side advisor for the private equity
• 3:50
  fund of a very large
• 3:52
  SPEAKER_02: Japanese institution focused on South Asia.
• 3:55
  And we are also the global collaboration partner for Anderson
• 4:00
  Global in M&A
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_02: Investment Banking and Valuation.
• 4:06
  I actually did come from an advertising and strategy background
• 4:10
  first,
• 4:10
  though.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_02: So after a year on the job,
• 4:14
  I realized 80% of my skill set was a good fit because whether
• 4:18
  I'm selling a billion
• 4:19
  cookies to the single women in China or selling one large
• 4:23
  factory to a billionaire,
• 4:25
  SPEAKER_02: let's just target audience of one.
• 4:27
  But I really still couldn't get a vibe for what my clients were
• 4:32
  like because I'm
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_02: crazier than I am richer Asian.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_02: And I can't afford to buy an entire company.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_02: But I figured I can lose about $10,000 betting on a startup.
• 4:44
  So I stumbled upon a few gentlemen who were starting Manila
• 4:48
  Angel Investors Network.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_02: I was member number six.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then in the first deal I syndicated, I tripled the membership.
• 4:56
  And now we're the largest,
• 4:57
  most active angel investor network in the country.
• 5:00
  We deployed a few million dollars over about 30 startups in the
• 5:03
  last decade.
• 5:05
  And we're going to grow and build our membership with funders
• 5:10
  from all over the world.
• 5:12
  SPEAKER_02: I also decided to take on the directorship of Foundry Institute.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: Globally is the largest pre-seed accelerator with over 200 chapters.
• 5:23
  SPEAKER_02: We've deployed over $1.85 billion.
• 5:26
  SPEAKER_02: And I'm resurrecting the Philippine chapter this year.
• 5:31
  SPEAKER_02: And we thankfully were able to sign a deal with Google Cloud.
• 5:36
  And so we're the first and only FI chapter in South Asia that's
• 5:40
  able to guarantee
• 5:41
  everyone that finishes our program will receive $25,000 of
• 5:46
  cloud credit for free.
• 5:48
  And so since I'm doing a bunch of startup activities on one
• 5:51
  side and then PE,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: M&A,
• 5:53
  SPEAKER_02: and VC on the other,
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_02: what I found is that
• 5:57
  SPEAKER_02: apparently the system is a bit broken.
• 5:59
  SPEAKER_02: And my solution is to not just change the system, but be the system.
• 6:03
  I last year decided to start my own private consulting business
• 6:06
  in parallel with
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_02: everything that I'm doing.
• 6:08
  SPEAKER_02: And that's called Bullet Day.
• 6:11
  SPEAKER_02: And the strategic intention is very straightforward.
• 6:14
  SPEAKER_02: On the one side,
• 6:15
  because I get to mentor startups from Switzerland to Samoa and
• 6:19
  Kazakhstan to Kuala
• 6:20
  SPEAKER_02: Lumpur,
• 6:21
  SPEAKER_02: and I find great technologies and wonderful founders.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: who want to keep growing in their home markets,
• 6:28
  I try to help them achieve unparalleled growth by forming
• 6:31
  parallel partnerships in
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_02: Southeast Asia,
• 6:34
  SPEAKER_02: beginning in the Philippines.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_02: And for many local businesses and founders,
• 6:39
  what I'm trying to do is help them level up by restructuring
• 6:43
  their business so that
• 6:43
  SPEAKER_02: they're ready to accept institutional investors.
• 6:47
  I currently have over half a billion dollars in institutional
• 6:51
  investment capital
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: that's ready to be deployed in the Philippines.
• 6:56
  And it's really just a matter of getting the recipients ready
• 7:01
  so that they're
• 7:02
  SPEAKER_02: qualified to take this money in and scale up.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that's a few of the things that I'm up to, Kevin.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: You did not disappoint on the mini hats.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: Certainly quite a few things going on there.
• 7:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 7:17
  So you touched on kind of the evolution of getting into these
• 7:20
  various facets as you
• 7:22
  SPEAKER_01: started talking.
• 7:23
  Before we start getting into like the lay of the land and
• 7:27
  talking about the
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: Philippines,
• 7:28
  SPEAKER_01: where it is,
• 7:29
  SPEAKER_01: where it was,
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: where it's going.
• 7:31
  I'm just kind of curious from your viewpoint in wearing the
• 7:34
  different hats that you have.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: What are some of the underlying moments that kind of drew you in?
• 7:40
  You said that you were member number six in the Medilla Angel
• 7:44
  Investor Network.
• 7:45
  What motivated you to push all in onto the angel investing and
• 7:51
  really like you're
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: super deep into the startup ecosystem now?
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: What was that deeper sort of origin there?
• 7:58
  So it's actually quite funny because today I just re-shared a
• 8:01
  photo on my Facebook memory.
• 8:04
  This time,
• 8:06
  eight years ago,
• 8:07
  I was in Kuala Lumpur judging the Seed Stars competition.
• 8:11
  SPEAKER_02: Because a few weeks prior,
• 8:13
  I was judging the Seed Stars competition in the Philippines as
• 8:17
  part of my duties as
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_02: Manila Angel Investors Network.
• 8:20
  And on that day,
• 8:21
  they got a message that one of their judges in Malaysia pulled
• 8:24
  out.
• 8:25
  And at the time I still had my apartment in KL because I'd
• 8:29
  lived in Kuala Lumpur
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_02: for 10 years as head of strategy for a global ad agency there.
• 8:34
  And my first judging experience in seed stars in Manila was
• 8:37
  quite intriguing.
• 8:39
  SPEAKER_02: So I thought I'd pick up and, and,
• 8:42
  SPEAKER_02: Invite myself to judge the competition in Kuala Lumpur.
• 8:46
  SPEAKER_02: When I arrived there, I'd already come in as an industry expert.
• 8:50
  I'd been in Malaysia for a decade working with many of the
• 8:53
  large companies there.
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_02: And I thought I was really sharp and knew what was going on.
• 8:58
  But it was something else to really have these young,
• 9:02
  brilliant founders school me.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_02: on these different technologies and industry opportunities.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: And in five-minute nuggets,
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_02: I learned so many more insights about the Malaysian markets,
• 9:16
  SPEAKER_02: the insurance industry,
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_02: different sectors that I had not even thought about.
• 9:20
  SPEAKER_02: So it really opened up my eyes and had me think,
• 9:23
  SPEAKER_02: there's so much I don't even know that I don't know.
• 9:27
  SPEAKER_02: And so right after that session,
• 9:29
  I approached the organizers and I asked them for the rest of
• 9:33
  the itinerary.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_02: And I said, I want to learn about all these other markets.
• 9:37
  SPEAKER_02: Would it be okay if I go judge in those markets with you?
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_02: They said yes, thankfully.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_02: And that year I got to judge almost every market in Southeast Asia.
• 9:47
  SPEAKER_02: And since I ended up doing that,
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_02: they said,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: you know what,
• 9:50
  SPEAKER_02: Joseph,
• 9:51
  you've actually judged in more startup competitions in the
• 9:55
  region independently.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_02: You should join the regional summit in Bangkok.
• 10:00
  SPEAKER_02: And then after I did that,
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_02: they said,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: Joseph,
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_02: you've done so much and you seem to know about the strategy stuff.
• 10:06
  You want to go to Switzerland and give a workshop to help these
• 10:10
  founders learn about strategy.
• 10:12
  So I got to fly to Switzerland and do the workshop for
• 10:16
  multinational corporations
• 10:17
  SPEAKER_02: and adapt it for startups.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_02: And the founders thought it was fantastic.
• 10:22
  SPEAKER_02: The organizers invited me to do it again the next year.
• 10:26
  SPEAKER_02: And after doing that one more time,
• 10:29
  they surprised me by making me the co-ambassador for ZSARS
• 10:33
  Philippines a year
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: later.
• 10:34
  SPEAKER_02: And by that time, I'd already gotten a lot more experience under my belt.
• 10:41
  SPEAKER_02: It just got addicting to learn.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's what actually got me into it.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_02: Meeting all the founders.
• 10:47
  It's an interesting dynamic on curiosity led you down the trail
• 10:53
  and you just became
• 10:54
  SPEAKER_01: fascinated and obsessed.
• 10:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I think the other founder institute,
• 11:00
  SPEAKER_02: we did a panel on fundraising in the Philippines and South Asia.
• 11:04
  SPEAKER_02: And it was a very powerful conversation.
• 11:07
  So I brought in Paul Pajo of Benil Hi-Fi,
• 11:09
  who talked about securing grants from government.
• 11:13
  We had Director Oliver Leonardo from the Security Exchange
• 11:17
  Commission talking about
• 11:19
  SPEAKER_02: equity crowdfunding.
• 11:20
  SPEAKER_02: And we had a chat with Quen Bigot,
• 11:22
  SPEAKER_02: the director for Manila Angel Investors Network,
• 11:25
  SPEAKER_02: the executive director of Maine.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_02: Franco Verona of Foxmont, our good friend.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_02: And then Carlos Silva of Shoppable giving the
• 11:33
  SPEAKER_02: founder's perspective, right?
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_02: And in that hour and a half,
• 11:37
  I think my biggest takeaway was that fundraising for startups
• 11:42
  at the end of the day
• 11:43
  SPEAKER_02: is still a human exercise.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_02: It's still all about the people.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_02: Similarly in the startup game, yes, there's a lot of money involved.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_02: The numbers can get very big,
• 11:54
  SPEAKER_02: but at the end of the day,
• 11:55
  it's really about connecting with founders and founders
• 12:00
  connecting with investors.
• 12:01
  SPEAKER_02: and the business connecting with customers at the end of the day.
• 12:05
  So I think even though it's a lot of numbers,
• 12:08
  it's still a people business.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I would definitely agree.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_01: I'm definitely a fan of Carlo.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I'm an investor in his company.
• 12:15
  SPEAKER_01: So full disclosure,
• 12:16
  SPEAKER_01: I'm a strong supporter of his viewpoint on how to fundraise,
• 12:19
  being a successful case in point right here of him convincing
• 12:23
  me to jump on board.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: Jumping back to the Seed Stars, how long ago was that?
• 12:28
  SPEAKER_01: What year was that that you were doing those,
• 12:31
  SPEAKER_01: the kind of the regional tour,
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: capping off with the summit in Bangkok?
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, so that was eight years ago.
• 12:38
  SPEAKER_02: And I did it every year up until the pandemic.
• 12:41
  And from that,
• 12:43
  they invited me to become a mentor for some of their programs.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_02: all over the world.
• 12:49
  SPEAKER_02: And that's taken me to,
• 12:50
  SPEAKER_02: like I said,
• 12:51
  SPEAKER_02: Kazakhstan,
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_02: Samoa,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: Switzerland,
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_02: so many other,
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_02: and Bangladesh.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_02: And I also learned that before I say yes to flying somewhere,
• 13:01
  I should look in a map where it is first because some of these
• 13:04
  places were a lot
• 13:05
  SPEAKER_02: farther away than I thought.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_02: But, you know, well worth the trip.
• 13:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, Samoa is very far out in the middle of nowhere, Pacific Ocean.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: So that's not an easy one.
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_02: I totally did not think that was the case.
• 13:18
  I'm glad that I went because when I ended up going and I was
• 13:22
  mentoring them,
• 13:24
  a lot of the founders were talking about how they were worried
• 13:29
  because they were in
• 13:30
  SPEAKER_02: the middle of nowhere.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_02: And the insight that I shared with them was,
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_02: I know that you're in the middle of nowhere,
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_02: but imagine if you're able to crack this problem,
• 13:40
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_02: And the fact of the matter is,
• 13:43
  SPEAKER_02: is that there are thousands of middle of nowheres all over the world.
• 13:47
  So if you're able to make it work in Samoa,
• 13:51
  then it's a solution that can probably work
• 13:53
  in the middle of Idaho,
• 13:56
  somewhere in Eastern Europe,
• 13:57
  or in the middle of Africa.
• 13:59
  SPEAKER_02: The world is full of middle of nowheres.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the beauty of startup thinking.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_02: If it's something that can truly scale.
• 14:13
  SPEAKER_02: And there are different ways to get things to scale.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_02: And part of it is really just having that thinking and framework like,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: hey,
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_02: how can I make this repeat without me
• 14:22
  pouring the same set of blood,
• 14:24
  sweat,
• 14:24
  and tears in a step function every time.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_02: So...
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 14:30
  SPEAKER_01: I imagine a lot of that same logic applies in the Philippines as well,
• 14:34
  SPEAKER_01: because you're talking about a collection of a whole bunch of islands.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_01: It's not easily connected.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 14:40
  when you're outside of Manila and you're out into the different
• 14:45
  parts of the
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: country,
• 14:45
  SPEAKER_01: it can sometimes feel disconnected.
• 14:47
  SPEAKER_01: Like, how can I build from here?
• 14:50
  SPEAKER_01: But as you said, if you can crack it, it can be applicable in many ways.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_02: In fairness, the Philippines has a number of advantages.
• 15:01
  SPEAKER_02: Some disadvantages compared to the rest of the market.
• 15:05
  SPEAKER_02: As an advisor, I try to be as honest and upfront as possible.
• 15:09
  SPEAKER_02: Obviously, other markets in Southeast Asia, Indonesia is much larger.
• 15:14
  SPEAKER_02: And even though Indonesia has many more islands,
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_02: from a population distribution standpoint,
• 15:20
  SPEAKER_02: they're actually much more concentrated.
• 15:21
  So it's actually simpler for them to achieve scale versus the
• 15:26
  Philippines.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_02: But again,
• 15:29
  SPEAKER_02: because the Philippines is geographically spread out,
• 15:32
  we've adapted in a number of ways that have also made us quite
• 15:38
  influential in a
• 15:39
  SPEAKER_02: surprising way.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the investments I've made was in a little startup called Kumu,
• 15:46
  which is basically a social media platform that engages
• 15:53
  creators directly with
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_02: their community base.
• 15:57
  SPEAKER_02: When the founder,
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_02: Roland Ross,
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_02: was pushing it to us and we're saying,
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_02: how can you compete with all these other big guys,
• 16:03
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 16:05
  The highlight that he really brought to us was that the
• 16:10
  Filipino community is
• 16:12
  SPEAKER_02: actually at the forefront of cultural exchange.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_02: Many people don't know this, but because we're...
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_02: Asian country colonized by the West.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're actually a great testbed for a lot of cultural hallmarks.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_02: They've been doing this from the 80s all the way till today.
• 16:30
  So the Philippines is where they first test marketed things
• 16:34
  like the band called
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_02: Menudo with Ricky Martin.
• 16:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then they tested Mambo No.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_02: 5 in the Philippines, which is a big hit here.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_02: So we've heard that song way longer than everybody else.
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_02: And even...
• 16:49
  SPEAKER_02: even the forefront of social media analytics.
• 16:53
  So Cambridge Analytica was really first test marketed in our
• 16:57
  Philippine election.
• 16:58
  SPEAKER_02: So I can't say you're welcome, but that's the reality, right?
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_02: And even today,
• 17:06
  SPEAKER_02: we're the place that's being the testbed for things like blockchain and,
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 17:12
  SPEAKER_02: gamification.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_02: And even in the realm of AI,
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_02: which is still fairly nascent,
• 17:17
  I think that we're finding a foothold as one of the potential
• 17:21
  vanguards for that in
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of ways.
• 17:23
  SPEAKER_02: So we're not totally disadvantaged.
• 17:26
  SPEAKER_02: We are still the most socially media connected community in the world.
• 17:32
  SPEAKER_02: And if you want to test that,
• 17:35
  just go on your social and say something anti-Filipino and see
• 17:39
  how long you last.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I will not be doing that.
• 17:45
  SPEAKER_01: No, thank you.
• 17:46
  SPEAKER_01: I know where that could end up leading.
• 17:48
  SPEAKER_01: But it is true.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: I mean,
• 17:50
  SPEAKER_01: when you start talking about the most active social media users,
• 17:54
  SPEAKER_01: Philippines is in the top of the list.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_01: Let's rewind the clock a little bit,
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: because so about eight years ago,
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_01: when you started getting pushed in as a result of SeedStars,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: I'm curious,
• 18:03
  SPEAKER_01: what did the Filipino startup ecosystem look like at that point?
• 18:07
  SPEAKER_01: Because
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_01: Across Southeast Asia,
• 18:09
  you started seeing the early beginnings of a lot of the startup
• 18:13
  ecosystems.
• 18:14
  SPEAKER_01: Like really, Singapore was only really starting in the 20-teens.
• 18:20
  SPEAKER_01: Same thing here in Malaysia and elsewhere.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_01: What was it really looking like in Philippines at that time?
• 18:27
  So at the time,
• 18:29
  there was actually a resurgence from a dead period in tech.
• 18:32
  SPEAKER_02: So
• 18:38
  SPEAKER_02: it's not often talked about,
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_02: but you know,
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_02: back in the late nineties,
• 18:42
  there was a big internet boom and the Philippine investor
• 18:46
  community jumped in late.
• 18:48
  SPEAKER_02: So they came in at the crest and they only experienced the fall.
• 18:53
  SPEAKER_02: And a lot of the excess capital was scared off from tech for so long.
• 18:59
  SPEAKER_02: And then the global financial crisis hit again.
• 19:02
  SPEAKER_02: And so around 2015, 2017,
• 19:07
  was just about when people started to forget all that bad luck
• 19:12
  and start making
• 19:13
  SPEAKER_02: bets again in that space.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_02: But it's still very messy, still relatively early stages.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_02: And everyone was still trying to figure out what to do.
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: That being said,
• 19:26
  SPEAKER_02: there were some early plays being made in the fintech space,
• 19:30
  SPEAKER_02: which again is another area where from the Philippine perspective,
• 19:34
  SPEAKER_02: we have a natural advantage.
• 19:37
  Because 10% of our economy is driven by heroic Filipinos that
• 19:41
  are sacrificing for
• 19:43
  SPEAKER_02: their families,
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_02: living abroad,
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_02: sending money back.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_02: And so that market is 10% of our economy.
• 19:50
  SPEAKER_02: So we have a lot of volume in that.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's a healthy place to experiment in sandbox.
• 19:59
  And I'll be honest,
• 20:01
  my cohort from that year has not proven out to be a great set.
• 20:07
  SPEAKER_02: And as an investor,
• 20:08
  I made the rookie mistake of thinking that my brilliance in my
• 20:11
  last career would
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_02: translate into this new career.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_02: And so I thought I had a Midas touch.
• 20:17
  SPEAKER_02: And it turns out I had like the exact opposite of that.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_02: Because again, I didn't know what I didn't know, right?
• 20:26
  And like many other markets,
• 20:29
  I think it's experienced a wave of talent and drivers.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_02: I think there was an initial wave of internationals who came in,
• 20:41
  who had experience in other markets and saw the Philippines as
• 20:44
  an opportunity and
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_02: started building startups here.
• 20:47
  SPEAKER_02: And then there was a wave of Repats,
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_02: Filipinos based abroad,
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_02: got the bug in Silicon Valley,
• 20:55
  realized there's an opportunity back home or were forced to do
• 20:58
  it because of family
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_02: circumstances.
• 21:01
  SPEAKER_02: And then they started leading that wave.
• 21:04
  And I think now we're actually getting that wave of homegrown
• 21:08
  talent that's been
• 21:09
  exposed doing international work as outsourced people or just
• 21:16
  engaging with
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_02: world-class talent.
• 21:18
  SPEAKER_02: And they're starting their own startups.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_02: Now we're even beginning to start to see that spread,
• 21:25
  SPEAKER_02: not just in the core Metro Manila,
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_02: but have pockets of innovation all across the country as more people are
• 21:33
  getting more access to technology and tools and the ambition to
• 21:38
  actually compete globally.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_02: and make their own startup.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_01: Let me ask you a question on this as well,
• 21:44
  because one of the things that you talked about was the people
• 21:47
  that got burned and
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: then they started coming back into the market.
• 21:51
  SPEAKER_01: When you go around the Asian markets in general,
• 21:54
  SPEAKER_01: it's mostly fairly conservative in regards to their investment behavior.
• 21:59
  SPEAKER_01: And obviously,
• 22:01
  SPEAKER_01: with your role with the Manila Angel Investor Network,
• 22:05
  SPEAKER_01: how have you guys tackled that
• 22:08
  let's call it an education barrier or maybe a familiarity
• 22:11
  barrier so that it's not
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_01: necessarily that they need to learn something.
• 22:14
  SPEAKER_01: They just need the familiarity with it.
• 22:16
  SPEAKER_01: How have you guys tackled that?
• 22:18
  And what's been your secret to building the community there
• 22:23
  alongside with the startup side?
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_02: That's a great question.
• 22:26
  So I think the principle for this is the same thing that
• 22:30
  founders have to do,
• 22:31
  SPEAKER_02: which is meet your market where they are.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_02: So our market, we have capital, but it's very conservative.
• 22:39
  The first thing that we wanted to do was eliminate some of that
• 22:42
  technical risk.
• 22:44
  SPEAKER_02: I look like a coder, but I can't, I'm not Neo.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_02: I can't interpret anything, right?
• 22:49
  SPEAKER_02: So one of the first rules of our fight club was,
• 22:53
  SPEAKER_02: if you're a startup,
• 22:55
  we're not going to invest in an MVP because we can't tell
• 22:59
  whether your code makes
• 23:00
  SPEAKER_02: sense or not.
• 23:01
  SPEAKER_02: But
• 23:02
  SPEAKER_02: If you have a paying customer anywhere in the country,
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_02: in the top 100 corporations,
• 23:10
  it's one phone call away for me to find out whether they're
• 23:12
  happy with you or not.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_02: So that's within our superpowers.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_02: That was the first filter that we do,
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_02: which is different from Silicon Valley because they have the context,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: that advantage,
• 23:23
  SPEAKER_02: and they can sit down with a passionate customer.
• 23:27
  SPEAKER_02: and see if the idea is good.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_02: And if the code is bad,
• 23:30
  SPEAKER_02: a lot of these millionaire guys can do the code themselves and fix it,
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_02: I don't have that superpower.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_02: So that was the first one.
• 23:38
  There's a statistic,
• 23:40
  like 50 or 60% of VCs in Silicon Valley have a technical
• 23:43
  background.
• 23:44
  So they can understand that napkin idea and whether or not the
• 23:48
  execution can happen.
• 23:49
  SPEAKER_01: So there's a little bit of a difference there.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_02: Correct.
• 23:53
  SPEAKER_02: Then the next one was,
• 23:55
  SPEAKER_02: about mitigating risk.
• 23:57
  SPEAKER_02: And so how do you balance the risk profile?
• 24:01
  And that's really just about reducing the amount to a number
• 24:05
  that doesn't matter.
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: Basically,
• 24:07
  SPEAKER_02: what we established was for every investment,
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_02: each angel only has to commit a minimum of $5,000.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_02: And the logic was very straightforward.
• 24:18
  SPEAKER_02: We could have made it $1,000, but because we don't want to go beyond the
• 24:23
  the limit of the Security Exchange Commission and of having
• 24:28
  more than 20 investors
• 24:30
  SPEAKER_02: because that's fundraising with the public.
• 24:32
  SPEAKER_02: We said, all right, let's try to keep it to 19, 20 people tops.
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: And really,
• 24:37
  SPEAKER_02: if you're a founder,
• 24:39
  you really might not want to have a list of 20 wealthy people
• 24:43
  chasing breathing
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_02: down your net.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 24:47
  SPEAKER_02: And we figured if it was a thousand bucks, they only get 20K.
• 24:51
  SPEAKER_02: That's not going to move the needle.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_02: In the Philippines, $100,000 though.
• 24:56
  If you can't make magic with that in the Philippines,
• 25:00
  you really are a dumbass,
• 25:02
  right?
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_02: Given the arbitrage.
• 25:04
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, exactly.
• 25:06
  SPEAKER_02: So that would be a good threshold amount.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_02: That's the second key parameter that we looked into.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_02: The third thing, and this is what I learned when I'm doing M&A and
• 25:16
  trying to scare investors from all the world and from the
• 25:19
  Philippines to the rest
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_02: of the world,
• 25:21
  SPEAKER_02: is there's a continuum or a balance that investors want to handle,
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 25:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if it's a big amount in a business that they're very familiar with...
• 25:35
  SPEAKER_02: and they have a lot of control,
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_02: then they're more comfortable dealing with it,
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_02: even if it's far away.
• 25:41
  SPEAKER_02: But the farther away it is for them, the smaller the amount has to be.
• 25:45
  So we also made an intentional drive to try and pay attention
• 25:50
  to startups who would
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_02: be solving problems in the industry where we had a lot of members.
• 25:55
  SPEAKER_02: Sometimes it worked out,
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes it didn't,
• 25:57
  SPEAKER_02: but the experience itself,
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_02: we hoped would get them booked or addicted.
• 26:01
  SPEAKER_02: What we tried to do is try to find startups
• 26:04
  SPEAKER_02: that solve the problems that they have.
• 26:07
  So there'd be startups that are trying to automate real estate
• 26:11
  agents in the
• 26:12
  SPEAKER_02: Philippines to make them idiot proof.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_02: We went out,
• 26:15
  we found a bunch of our angel investors that own property and
• 26:18
  because it's
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_02: Southeast Asia,
• 26:20
  SPEAKER_02: as you know,
• 26:21
  SPEAKER_02: most wealthy
• 26:23
  SPEAKER_02: family networks are into property, right?
• 26:27
  So it was relatively straightforward to find a bunch of angels
• 26:30
  prior to the actual
• 26:31
  SPEAKER_02: investment to say,
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_02: guys,
• 26:33
  SPEAKER_02: try this out.
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_02: And for three to six months, these guys gave it a good college try.
• 26:39
  And we discovered that Philippine real estate agents are dumber
• 26:43
  than idiots.
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_02: And so the system didn't work.
• 26:46
  So what that guy thought was idiot proof in the Philippines
• 26:50
  wasn't straightforward
• 26:51
  SPEAKER_02: or simple enough to get to
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_02: simplify it even further.
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_02: That's the iteration process we started to look into.
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_02: At the end of the day, that startup didn't end up going into that space.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: But in that process,
• 27:04
  they refined their product and then they got acquired by
• 27:07
  another larger startup and
• 27:09
  SPEAKER_02: built from there.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_02: So no good deed goes unpunished.
• 27:12
  SPEAKER_02: So that still worked out for them.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_02: And for our angels,
• 27:16
  SPEAKER_02: they learned something,
• 27:17
  SPEAKER_02: they got intrigued and that helped grow the membership.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_02: It's just about
• 27:21
  SPEAKER_02: having those iterative conversations.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_01: So on the startup side,
• 27:27
  I'm curious because now you guys have reviewed lots of
• 27:30
  different startups over
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: time.
• 27:32
  Over the course of all these years,
• 27:34
  what's changed in the founders that you're seeing today?
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Has the skill leveled up?
• 27:39
  SPEAKER_01: Is the type of startups?
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_01: What's really changed in the founders you're seeing today versus before?
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_02: I think fundamentally,
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_02: It feels like almost everything.
• 27:50
  SPEAKER_02: The quality of founders that we're running into is elevating.
• 27:55
  SPEAKER_02: They're coming in more prepared from a technical standpoint,
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: an understanding of how the game works.
• 28:03
  I think the biggest fundamental change that I think is the most
• 28:06
  meaningful is their
• 28:07
  SPEAKER_02: level of ambition.
• 28:09
  And this is something that I learned from a good friend of
• 28:11
  mine,
• 28:11
  Richard Dehan.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_02: He's a super nerd out of LA.
• 28:14
  SPEAKER_02: He's an MIT-focused entrepreneur.
• 28:17
  SPEAKER_02: angel investor.
• 28:18
  SPEAKER_01: And he... I didn't know you were connected with him.
• 28:21
  SPEAKER_01: I've met him before.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 28:23
  And he did a global scope and he said the Philippines is the
• 28:27
  next big thing.
• 28:29
  In his MIT brain,
• 28:31
  he did the analysis and said,
• 28:33
  we have all the ingredients for success.
• 28:36
  SPEAKER_02: And when he ran a program here a few years ago called Sandbox Bridge,
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_02: it was without a doubt the best startup
• 28:44
  SPEAKER_02: program in the country at the time.
• 28:47
  SPEAKER_02: When I was judging the output,
• 28:49
  everybody that I looked at really was pretty much almost
• 28:54
  world-class or already
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_02: world-class at the end of that program.
• 28:57
  SPEAKER_02: And what he was putting forward was that all the startups,
• 29:01
  the first lesson they have to get is they have to compete at a
• 29:04
  global standard and
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_02: have a large scale ambition.
• 29:09
  SPEAKER_02: And so in the early days, we get a lot of startups
• 29:13
  that want to solve a very local problem,
• 29:16
  but their thinking is too local.
• 29:19
  SPEAKER_02: And so it's going to be a great problem solver for them.
• 29:23
  SPEAKER_02: They can put their kids to a nice school.
• 29:25
  SPEAKER_02: It'll be a great lifestyle business,
• 29:27
  but it really won't be enough to sustain the requirements for
• 29:30
  external funders to
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: come in.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_02: So I think that's the first one.
• 29:33
  SPEAKER_02: The level of ambition has elevated.
• 29:37
  And a lot of the players are coming in and saying,
• 29:40
  yes,
• 29:40
  we're going to go and
• 29:42
  SPEAKER_02: become national.
• 29:44
  But then the game is to actually start looking at how we can
• 29:49
  bring this out to the
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_02: rest of Southeast Asia.
• 29:52
  And some of these guys are saying,
• 29:53
  why don't we bring this service to the rest of the world?
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_02: So that's the first one.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_02: And then the next one is in terms of their quality as founders.
• 30:00
  SPEAKER_02: They're coming in more prepared,
• 30:02
  SPEAKER_02: have better MVPs,
• 30:04
  SPEAKER_02: and aren't just coming up with just a pure idea.
• 30:07
  The challenge that came with that a few years ago was with
• 30:11
  Silicon Valley ambitions
• 30:13
  SPEAKER_02: and pricing,
• 30:15
  SPEAKER_02: which is not realistic for Southeast Asia.
• 30:18
  And so there's some challenges that startups come in with that
• 30:21
  ambition and
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_02: sometimes get lucky or unlucky to secure that kind of funding.
• 30:27
  And then they now face the challenge of being able to walk or
• 30:31
  grow into that valuation.
• 30:33
  SPEAKER_02: And at the end of the day, that
• 30:37
  could hurt them in the end because they're not able to hit
• 30:40
  their stride in the pace
• 30:42
  and momentum that external investors want to see for that
• 30:46
  continuity of growth,
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_02: But that's also breeding a new generation of founders that are,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: you know,
• 30:52
  SPEAKER_02: what I want to call camel corns and
• 30:54
  SPEAKER_02: cockroach corns or in Filipino, ipiscorns.
• 30:57
  SPEAKER_02: We're just stubborn and refuse to die.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_01: So again, hopefully... There's a group here in Malaysia called Unicroach.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_01: No, it makes perfect sense.
• 31:07
  I've definitely seen my fair share of founders that have read
• 31:11
  TechCrunch a few too
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: many times and think that they can ask for the same valuations.
• 31:16
  But I'm sorry,
• 31:17
  $20 million valuation for seed just doesn't happen up there.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: It shouldn't happen out here.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_01: You're not going to give $5 million for your napkin.
• 31:30
  SPEAKER_01: It shouldn't.
• 31:31
  SPEAKER_01: I think we've settled the dust from there.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_02: Great, but we shouldn't do it.
• 31:36
  But there's a lot of maturity in the market that needs to
• 31:39
  happen before that starts
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_01: becoming more realistic.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_02: Both at local and cross-border ones.
• 31:48
  SPEAKER_01: On the same founder...
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: Exactly.
• 31:50
  SPEAKER_01: On the same founder level,
• 31:51
  SPEAKER_01: there's a leveling up to the quality of the founders that's out there.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_01: What about red flags?
• 31:56
  SPEAKER_01: What are the ones that get you to turn people away?
• 32:00
  SPEAKER_01: If you don't mind being blunt with me here.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_02: If we're going to be blunt, right?
• 32:05
  SPEAKER_02: They have to pass the no asshole rule, right?
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_02: There's a common test called the airport test.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_02: So could you imagine...
• 32:18
  being stuck in a flight or an airport with this guy for three
• 32:22
  to six hours.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_02: And there was this one investment opportunity.
• 32:26
  SPEAKER_02: It was brought to us by one of our angels.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_02: He was on board as one of the fractionals, C-level guys.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_02: It was a great business, had the right traction and growth.
• 32:37
  SPEAKER_02: But when they pitched, the CEO insisted on doing the pitch himself.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_02: And he was a total jackass.
• 32:43
  SPEAKER_02: Every time we asked him a question,
• 32:46
  SPEAKER_02: He came across as if like he was dating us with an answer.
• 32:49
  SPEAKER_02: And after a few minutes of this,
• 32:51
  all of us in the screening committee agreed that even if this
• 32:54
  guy became a unicorn
• 32:56
  SPEAKER_02: and would have made us like millions of dollars,
• 32:59
  we were all actually happier not having that gentleman be part
• 33:03
  of our lives.
• 33:05
  SPEAKER_02: So that's obviously the biggest red flag.
• 33:08
  I think the other big red flag are founders that talk a big
• 33:11
  game but can't actually execute.
• 33:15
  There's a lot of founders who are out there that love the image
• 33:21
  of being a startup founder.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can throw some shade in Malaysia for a bit,
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_02: I remember mentoring in one year for a startup program based in one city.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_02: And then I met a bunch of startups there.
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_02: And then I go to another city the next year.
• 33:37
  SPEAKER_02: And then I found these startup founders are amazing.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_02: the same, but in a different city, but with the same pitch.
• 33:44
  SPEAKER_02: They're just going from state to state,
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_02: collecting government paychecks from all these institutions.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_02: And that's how they're sustaining their lifestyle, which is ridiculous.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_02: And now in the Philippines,
• 33:56
  we're seeing some of that as well as more government programs
• 33:59
  are coming through.
• 34:00
  SPEAKER_02: We're seeing some founders go through the motion,
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_02: have the right spiel,
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_02: have the brilliant story and ambition,
• 34:10
  But they're not generating traction because they're spending
• 34:12
  all their time
• 34:13
  pitching and fundraising or securing the right kind of awards
• 34:20
  instead of actually
• 34:21
  SPEAKER_02: building the business,
• 34:22
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 34:22
  I think a lot of these founders forget the game isn't to
• 34:27
  fundraise,
• 34:28
  right?
• 34:28
  SPEAKER_02: You're not... No.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: The game is to raise money to make money, right?
• 34:33
  SPEAKER_02: Not to raise more money.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_02: And that's the second big...
• 34:37
  SPEAKER_02: red flag out there.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_02: The third,
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_02: I think,
• 34:39
  is really just whether they have an actual insight or
• 34:44
  understanding about the
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_02: problem they're solving for who.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_02: A lot of founders are great
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_02: And they're in love with their idea and the solution,
• 34:53
  SPEAKER_02: but they're a solution looking for a problem.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_02: And there's room for that, like 3M and Post-its.
• 34:59
  But I hope that by the time you get to us,
• 35:02
  you've figured out your product market fit.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_02: And if not, that's why I decided to go into Foundry Institute.
• 35:08
  I can kick you back down the snakes and ladders so you can
• 35:12
  climb up again before
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_02: coming to my angel investor network.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 35:21
  The comments about the grant funding definitely hit with me
• 35:26
  because I've seen too
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_01: many times that red flag.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_01: That's like the Charlie Munger quote,
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: show me the incentive structure and I'll show you the result.
• 35:34
  SPEAKER_01: They're being incentivized oftentimes to do this.
• 35:37
  Some of these grant programs are requiring because they want
• 35:40
  the headlines for
• 35:41
  their KPIs of show ponying these people out into the market
• 35:45
  into various places.
• 35:46
  And it's an intentional distraction from them actually being
• 35:50
  able to build and develop value.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_01: And certainly I resonate with the no asshole rule.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_01: It's a long-term investment.
• 35:58
  And if you're stuck dealing with somebody that is a personality
• 36:02
  that is very
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_01: difficult to get along with,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: Now,
• 36:04
  SPEAKER_01: mind you,
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_01: the flip side of that,
• 36:06
  a lot of really successful entrepreneurs have very particular
• 36:09
  personalities,
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_01: but there's a big difference between being motivated,
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: obsessed,
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_01: all of these different characteristics,
• 36:17
  SPEAKER_01: and just being a horrible person.
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_01: And nobody wants to be around the ladder.
• 36:20
  SPEAKER_02: Absolutely.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_02: And like you said,
• 36:23
  SPEAKER_02: Kevin,
• 36:24
  SPEAKER_02: no system is actually broken,
• 36:26
  but they just might not be designed to solve the problem that
• 36:30
  you think is worth
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_02: solving.
• 36:31
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody is making something out of those systems as broken as they are.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_02: Somebody gets something out of it.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_02: And so that's why it's our job to either create alternate systems,
• 36:43
  SPEAKER_02: change the system,
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_02: or be the system,
• 36:45
  SPEAKER_02: which is my strategic approach.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_01: Let me do a couple of wrap up questions here.
• 36:51
  SPEAKER_01: One of which is you have a broad view across the spectrum.
• 36:55
  See a lot of founders between the aspect of doing Founder
• 36:59
  Institute at the idea
• 37:00
  SPEAKER_01: stage to the angel network where they're a little bit further along.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_01: all the way through the M&A where you're seeing later stage companies.
• 37:08
  SPEAKER_01: What sectors or what ideas even are exciting you the most right now?
• 37:14
  What is the thing that you want to see more Filipino founders
• 37:18
  building or any
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_01: founder really building?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_01: What excites you?
• 37:21
  SPEAKER_02: Before I answer that question, I do have to give a caveat.
• 37:25
  SPEAKER_02: As you and many of your listeners know,
• 37:27
  SPEAKER_02: every year,
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_02: there's irrational exuberance around particular topics.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_02: When I was starting my...
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_02: my angel investing wannabe VC career, it was drones.
• 37:40
  SPEAKER_02: Then it's blockchain.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_02: This year it's AI.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_02: And I was having a conversation with another investor and he was saying,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: oh,
• 37:47
  SPEAKER_02: every time I talk to a startup or a founder,
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_02: my new critical question is,
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_02: what's your AI strategy?
• 37:53
  SPEAKER_02: And, you know, I'm not discounting the value of AI.
• 37:56
  SPEAKER_02: I am falling more and more in love with it.
• 37:59
  SPEAKER_02: But I think
• 38:00
  SPEAKER_02: people tend to forget the fundamentals.
• 38:03
  So for any business,
• 38:06
  what I'm trying to figure out is,
• 38:08
  do they know what success looks like?
• 38:11
  Because if they don't know what that successful future looked
• 38:14
  like for themselves,
• 38:16
  SPEAKER_02: for their customers,
• 38:17
  SPEAKER_02: investors,
• 38:18
  it actually becomes a very difficult road for them to navigate
• 38:22
  because they have no
• 38:23
  SPEAKER_02: guiding star.
• 38:25
  SPEAKER_02: That being said, there are some areas where I'm
• 38:29
  SPEAKER_02: fortunate enough to start seeing some distinct opportunities, right?
• 38:33
  I have pretty much direct access to over half a billion dollars
• 38:37
  that I know wants
• 38:38
  SPEAKER_02: to come into the Philippines and the rest of Southeast Asia.
• 38:42
  SPEAKER_02: And a big chunk of that,
• 38:44
  SPEAKER_02: thankfully,
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_02: is actually nudging into the sustainability and climate tech space.
• 38:50
  And I think what's happening is,
• 38:53
  and I called this out a few years ago when I was in a
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_02: global conference called On Sustainability.
• 39:02
  It's wonderful that you have all these technical innovations in
• 39:05
  places like
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_02: Switzerland and North Canada.
• 39:09
  But if you really want to impact the planet,
• 39:13
  you have to go where the people and pollution are.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_02: And sadly,
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_02: or thankfully,
• 39:18
  the Philippines and Southeast Asia is where that problem and
• 39:23
  opportunity lies.
• 39:24
  SPEAKER_02: And so if you really want to make an impact
• 39:27
  in the planet come to where there's a billion people in what is
• 39:32
  the fastest growing
• 39:33
  market in the rest of the world where people are are are
• 39:37
  climbing from lower middle
• 39:39
  income to upper middle income and they're just about to grab
• 39:43
  onto that high
• 39:44
  consumption curve and stop them before they get there and so
• 39:48
  there's a lot of
• 39:50
  SPEAKER_02: capital that's coming into that space i'm currently running a
• 39:54
  SPEAKER_02: cohort from a private consulting practice in Bullet Day.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_02: And I've actually been surprised.
• 39:59
  Well over 70% of the founders and startups and businesses I
• 40:05
  decided to collaborate
• 40:07
  SPEAKER_02: with are actually nudging in that space.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_02: So that's one key particular area.
• 40:13
  SPEAKER_02: The second one,
• 40:14
  SPEAKER_02: and I know that I poo-pooed it a few minutes ago,
• 40:17
  SPEAKER_02: but I'm happy to be wrong in the face of fact.
• 40:21
  And the fact of the matter is that there really is genuine
• 40:24
  movement in the arena of
• 40:27
  SPEAKER_02: artificial intelligence.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_02: And it's been around for decades.
• 40:31
  SPEAKER_02: And now its moment is starting to accelerate.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_02: And because it's still at a relatively early stage,
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_02: even markets like the Philippines and Southeast Asia,
• 40:44
  SPEAKER_02: we do have a chance to leapfrog.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_02: and take advantage of that and ride that up.
• 40:50
  There's a lot of spaces as that market opens up and we're
• 40:54
  finding a few where we
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_02: might be able to make a big difference.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_02: And hopefully there's somebody smarter,
• 41:02
  better looking out there than us who'll figure out even new
• 41:06
  ways to take advantage
• 41:07
  SPEAKER_02: of that technology,
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 41:10
  Hopefully we bump into them and we get to help them and they
• 41:13
  give us advisory shares.
• 41:15
  SPEAKER_02: That's the game we get to play where we move.
• 41:18
  SPEAKER_02: Make a difference, have fun and make some money at the end of the day.
• 41:22
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: There we go.
• 41:23
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm 100% on board with the view on sustainability.
• 41:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, we're in haze season right now.
• 41:30
  We've got the Sumatra Haze and I'm not talking about a new type
• 41:33
  of coffee you haven't tried.
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: It's coming over presently.
• 41:36
  And then as well on AI,
• 41:37
  I think definitely in the Philippines,
• 41:39
  I think it's
• 41:40
  really well positioned to actually be an innovator simply
• 41:44
  because of how strong the
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: BPO industry is.
• 41:46
  And I think that obviously that is one of the main talking
• 41:50
  points about an industry
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_01: that's going to get disrupted,
• 41:52
  but the same people that are in it have the best vantage point
• 41:56
  to try and figure
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: out how to move to the next stage.
• 42:01
  SPEAKER_01: And so I'm quite keen to see people there coming with the innovation.
• 42:07
  SPEAKER_02: And if I can just preach to the choir a bit,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: Kevin,
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_02: we talked about this over whiskey the last time you were here.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_02: What people forget about AI is that until the AI is trained,
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_02: it's garbage in,
• 42:19
  SPEAKER_02: garbage out,
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 42:20
  And where are you able to find an army of humans who are able
• 42:25
  to operationally,
• 42:27
  systematically train something and who speak English naturally
• 42:33
  so they can help
• 42:33
  SPEAKER_02: serve people
• 42:34
  SPEAKER_02: the global market easily.
• 42:37
  2 million Filipinos that are already in the BPO industry,
• 42:39
  they're already 70% there.
• 42:42
  It's really just about enhancing their training to incorporate
• 42:46
  the AI framework and
• 42:48
  then finding the projects and opportunities to get people to
• 42:51
  try it and see it,
• 42:52
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 42:53
  SPEAKER_02: So the whole country could be a scale platform.
• 42:58
  I'm working with some people and having conversations and
• 43:01
  that's one of the
• 43:02
  passion projects that I have in terms of making sure that we
• 43:06
  don't just lose jobs,
• 43:09
  SPEAKER_02: but we actually elevate and expand.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_02: And I think it's kind of working.
• 43:13
  SPEAKER_02: There's going to be disruption.
• 43:15
  I'm not pretending that it'll be smooth,
• 43:17
  but the economy of the country is actually picking up.
• 43:22
  SPEAKER_02: And so this year, our growth will be 6%.
• 43:25
  We're still on track to be among the fastest growing countries
• 43:29
  in Southeast Asia.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, we surprise everyone and do it for three years in a row.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_02: That would be great.
• 43:37
  SPEAKER_01: I would love to see that.
• 43:39
  SPEAKER_01: As we wrap up here, you've got a lot of things going on.
• 43:42
  I want to give a chance to you in order to talk about things
• 43:45
  that people can sign
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_01: up for,
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_01: can attend,
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_01: can check out.
• 43:49
  I know I'm going to see you at an incredible event in October
• 43:52
  that you're doing a workshop in.
• 43:54
  Maybe we can take these last couple of minutes to kind of plug
• 43:57
  a few things to
• 43:58
  SPEAKER_01: where people can get more GDO when they need it.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: Fantastic.
• 44:02
  SPEAKER_02: So I feel like I'm a guest on Hot Mons.
• 44:04
  SPEAKER_02: Here's what we can do.
• 44:05
  SPEAKER_02: If you're a founder,
• 44:09
  SPEAKER_02: with or without a startup,
• 44:10
  SPEAKER_02: and you want to go from idea to investable company,
• 44:15
  SPEAKER_02: please go to fi.co.philippines.
• 44:19
  SPEAKER_02: Our early application deadline is July 27, and the rate's only $300.
• 44:22
  SPEAKER_02: That being said, we have over 100 applicants already.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_02: So if you do make it,
• 44:30
  make a quick call and put your money in because we really might
• 44:33
  close around early.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_02: Again,
• 44:35
  we're the first and only founder and suit chapter in Southeast
• 44:40
  Asia that will
• 44:41
  guarantee you $25,000 in Google Cloud Credit if you're able to
• 44:45
  complete the
• 44:46
  SPEAKER_02: program.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_02: Next,
• 44:48
  if you're a founder with a startup that has regional ambitions
• 44:53
  and you have many
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_02: customers,
• 44:55
  Send your five-minute pitch deck to pitch at main.ph and I'd
• 45:00
  love to screen you and
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_02: talk to you there.
• 45:04
  If you're an investor that wants to come and find out more
• 45:08
  about the Philippines,
• 45:10
  SPEAKER_02: please book a time,
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_02: gal.com slash bullet day.
• 45:16
  I'm happy to talk to you and see how we can open up your mind
• 45:20
  into figuring out
• 45:21
  SPEAKER_02: what might work for you in the Philippines,
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_02: right?
• 45:24
  SPEAKER_02: And then third, come to GOAB in October to catch Kevin and me.
• 45:31
  SPEAKER_02: I am going to be doing a play shop on my LinkedIn right now.
• 45:34
  SPEAKER_02: So look for me and Joseph DeLeon on LinkedIn.
• 45:37
  SPEAKER_02: Hopefully, I'm in the top search.
• 45:41
  SPEAKER_02: And you get to vote on what topic I will be presenting on.
• 45:46
  SPEAKER_02: So I'll be condensing over 25 years of experience in 25 minutes.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_02: And the potential topics are either A,
• 45:57
  what are the eight drivers of valuation so that at the same
• 46:02
  level of EBITDA and
• 46:04
  SPEAKER_02: profits,
• 46:06
  SPEAKER_02: you'll be worth more to potential investors or acquisition partners.
• 46:10
  SPEAKER_02: And do remember,
• 46:11
  SPEAKER_02: as a startup,
• 46:14
  90% of your successful exits will probably be an M&A and not a
• 46:18
  sexy unicorn IPO.
• 46:22
  SPEAKER_02: The other topic,
• 46:23
  how do you identify what are the biggest breakdowns that you're
• 46:28
  having right now
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_02: that's keeping you from scaling?
• 46:30
  SPEAKER_02: So if you're a startup that's plateaued or a business that's plateaued,
• 46:34
  SPEAKER_02: I have a new diagnostic tool that basically helps you figure out,
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_02: is the breakdown in my thinking
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_02: in your demand, your offer, or your execution effort.
• 46:45
  SPEAKER_02: And with the help of my friend Calma and Mandrell,
• 46:49
  SPEAKER_02: we've built an AI tool to help you figure that out.
• 46:52
  SPEAKER_02: And then from there,
• 46:53
  we can build a priority plan to help you create a breakthrough
• 46:57
  in that space so
• 46:58
  SPEAKER_02: you'll get out of the slump and get back on that growth curve.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_02: The last option is how to fast track your fundraising.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_02: Since I've been doing this for a while, I've identified
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: The eight M's of fundraising.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_02: Everywhere from the market to your message.
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_02: So those are your choices.
• 47:21
  SPEAKER_02: There's a few days left on the vote.
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_02: So I'm looking forward to learning what you guys want to learn.
• 47:27
  SPEAKER_02: seeing if I can help you get there.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_01: Fantastic, fantastic.
• 47:30
  SPEAKER_01: And so that's it for today's episode of Sea of Startups.
• 47:34
  SPEAKER_01: A big thank you to Joseph for the stories, the strategies, the insights.
• 47:38
  SPEAKER_01: If something has resonated with you,
• 47:40
  SPEAKER_01: please share it,
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_01: tag us,
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_01: and keep the industry conversations going.
• 47:45
  SPEAKER_01: Thank you very much.
• 47:48
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Kevin.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_02: Thank you, Kimberly.
• 47:50
  SPEAKER_02: Wonderful work.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_02: Cool.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_00: That's a wrap.
• 48:05
  SPEAKER_00: So we talk a lot about ambition in this space.
• 48:09
  SPEAKER_00: But what JDL reminded us is that ambition without discipline isn't brave.
• 48:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's just pure recklessness.
• 48:18
  SPEAKER_00: What's happening in the Philippines right now?
• 48:20
  SPEAKER_00: It isn't loud.
• 48:21
  SPEAKER_00: It's focused.
• 48:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's real.
• 48:24
  And it's being shaped by people who have learned how to build
• 48:28
  with friction,
• 48:29
  not in spite of it.
• 48:31
  SPEAKER_00: So here's what stuck with me.
• 48:34
  SPEAKER_00: 5k checks,
• 48:35
  SPEAKER_00: sure,
• 48:36
  but also half a billion in dry powder just waiting for
• 48:39
  operators who are ready to
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_00: play big and smart.
• 48:43
  SPEAKER_00: Remember that Jakarta infrastructure story we dope into last episode?
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_00: Well, in the next one at least, we're connecting those dots in a big way.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_00: We're diving deep into why Southeast Asia's shift.
• 48:58
  from flashy apps to invisible infrastructure might just be the
• 49:03
  biggest competitive
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_00: advantage yet.
• 49:09
  SPEAKER_00: Think eSIM unicorns,
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_00: AI-native wealth platforms,
• 49:14
  SPEAKER_00: and those billion-dollar data centers we can't stop talking about.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: Well,
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_00: this is the case in point,
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_00: so drop a review if this hits different,
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_00: share it with a founder who needs to hear it,
• 49:28
  SPEAKER_00: And I'll catch you in the next one.
• 49:30
  SPEAKER_00: Keep building.
• 49:31
  SPEAKER_00: Keep grinding.
• 49:32
  SPEAKER_00: And remember, sometimes the best opportunities are hiding in plain sight.
• 49:39
  SPEAKER_00: Just a heads up.
• 49:40
  Everything you hear and see of startups is inside and not
• 49:45
  investment advice.
• 49:49
  SPEAKER_00: See you in the next one, guys.