Latest / The Retail Podcast / Asia’s Retail Revolution: How Super Apps and Culture Are Redefining the Future | Ryf Quail x Low Ngai Yuen

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Asia’s Retail Revolution: How Super Apps and Culture Are Redefining the Future | Ryf Quail x Low Ngai Yuen · The Retail Podcast

• 0:00
  Hello and welcome to another edition, a fantastic, fabulous
• 0:03
  edition of Five Things. Friday we have a special guest
• 0:07
  who will meet in just one second.
• 0:10
  But as they say in the industry, let's roll credits.
• 0:24
  So there is a bop that goes when the credits roll.
• 0:28
  Everyone finds themselves dancing to it when the credits
• 0:32
  run. But anyway, you and you are our
• 0:34
  wonderful Co host for the show. Would you mind maybe just giving
• 0:39
  us a quick overview of who you are and what you do?
• 0:42
  Yeah. So I was the most recently, I
• 0:44
  was a former Chief Merchandise and Marketing Officer for the
• 0:48
  Aeon Group Burhart in Malaysia, which means in we're a Japanese
• 0:53
  retailer in Malaysia and I lead all the merchandising and the
• 0:57
  marketing for a couple of years, almost 5 now.
• 1:00
  And now I'm the Managing Director of Aeon 360, which is a
• 1:04
  data Co, a new JV company between the two public listed
• 1:08
  company of Aeon here in Malaysia.
• 1:10
  And I also run some NGOs and also sit on other boards and
• 1:16
  consult government on a lot of conversations around economic or
• 1:21
  culture or women. That's fantastic.
• 1:24
  Well, thank you. Thank you for joining us.
• 1:26
  I know how much, how pressed you must be for Time Reef.
• 1:29
  Obviously people know you, but for those who may be tuning in
• 1:33
  today for the first time, who are you and what do?
• 1:35
  You do. I'm nobody.
• 1:36
  Don't worry about me. It's all about you.
• 1:37
  And no, no, my name's Reef and I'm MD about NRF AIPAC.
• 1:42
  So I, I have been, have been the most fortunate man in the world
• 1:46
  to be able to live and breathe AIPAC retail for literally the
• 1:48
  last two or three years. And I've got to say blow a bit
• 1:51
  of smoke, but I'd like to say thank you for you.
• 1:53
  And because when you go through a journey with a show like NRF
• 1:57
  AIPAC, you meet wonderful people and wonderful humans.
• 1:59
  And so I met you and through the advisable process, I don't know
• 2:02
  how we met. I don't know who introduced us,
• 2:04
  but I don't. Remember as well, I don't
• 2:06
  remember. Yeah, but we we got on like a
• 2:08
  house far from the start and I'm so excited so And so Ewan's been
• 2:12
  part of our part of our advisory process.
• 2:15
  She has been leading speakers and helping speakers tell
• 2:18
  stories. She did a great session with
• 2:20
  Ryan Alphonse Kohler from Alpha Mart last year.
• 2:23
  So Ewan's basically a friend now that can never get away from me
• 2:26
  and stuck with me forever. It's good and.
• 2:31
  So when and so when I asked her to be involved with this, when
• 2:34
  she said yes, I was like the world, my cup is full,
• 2:37
  everything is good. Where away?
• 2:38
  That's fantastic. Yes, that's brilliant.
• 2:41
  You and why don't we start with you What what are the the top
• 2:44
  things I'm a retail perspective. So this couple of weeks, I think
• 2:47
  we're seeing a little bit more opening in terms of Chinese
• 2:51
  companies, Chinese retail companies in Malaysia, in
• 2:55
  Vietnam, in Southeast Asia. And, and I think it's really
• 2:59
  quite interesting to see the kind of strategic Chinese push
• 3:04
  of the products and how they are not just looking at retail
• 3:08
  front, but they're also looking at production, they're looking
• 3:10
  at sourcing and supply chain. That is different from where
• 3:13
  they come from. I guess the idea that we are
• 3:16
  culturally closer to them, we are a little bit more similar in
• 3:22
  the way we have been living, that's actually quite
• 3:25
  interesting in how they view us today compared to how it was
• 3:29
  when they were just really driving manufacturing, just
• 3:33
  really driving the other kind of industry that has that really
• 3:38
  requires labour support. So now it is the front end, the
• 3:42
  storefront that's coming to us and not just physically, but
• 3:46
  online we're seeing a lot more things like drama in the box, on
• 3:50
  demand in all kinds of strange applications that you can
• 3:53
  imagine. I am really waiting to see how
• 3:55
  that is going to pan out to be honest.
• 3:58
  Interesting. OK, so that's story one, what
• 4:00
  we're going to do 1 Actually, I've completely messed things up
• 4:04
  because I said Reeve was going to go first.
• 4:06
  Ewan's going to go. I know.
• 4:08
  I was all trying to go and then I was like, it's OK, it's OK.
• 4:12
  I will tell you what, I'm in Chinese front.
• 4:14
  It's been really funny. We I.
• 4:15
  I would have heard my name, no? No, no, you you're right.
• 4:18
  No, I messed it. Up you.
• 4:19
  Were wrong, Ewan, why didn't you?
• 4:21
  But that's don't worry. Don't worry about.
• 4:22
  It all the time, Ewan, this happens all the time.
• 4:24
  But I want to talk a little bit, but from from Ewan's point of
• 4:27
  view, we talked a little bit about this before.
• 4:29
  I've been just to hear opinion we what I've been saying in my
• 4:32
  observations of China retail and Chinese business coming into the
• 4:35
  region, they stop apart from a couple of standouts like Xi'an
• 4:38
  and Timu. They've really stopped coming in
• 4:40
  of their own brands, but they're investing in local brands and
• 4:43
  really putting money run and money in behind, you know, talk
• 4:46
  a pedia in Indonesia or Shoppi or Levada or you know, it's been
• 4:51
  there's been investments. So they, and I think your point,
• 4:54
  you and I think it's because once again they're recognising
• 4:57
  the closeness of the cultures and for a while they, they
• 5:01
  viewed themselves very separately, but I think they're
• 5:02
  actually feeling more warmly towards the region.
• 5:05
  And also I think maybe also the region is feeling more warm
• 5:08
  towards them. And I think everybody's also
• 5:11
  thinking about the geopolitical right now that's happening, you
• 5:15
  know, the two end of the of the pool, right, Trump on one end
• 5:19
  and China on the other. And where are we going to stand?
• 5:22
  We are likely to be supporting both for the look of it, because
• 5:26
  we only stand to benefit actually.
• 5:28
  So let's see how. Yeah.
• 5:30
  It's it's nice to be in the messy middle sometimes.
• 5:32
  So my turn. OK, cool.
• 5:33
  So today we sort of talked about you and just talked about apps a
• 5:36
  little bit. Today I'm going to talk a little
• 5:37
  bit about super apps, which is really foreign to Western
• 5:40
  countries, you know, So you know, for me, super apps, we've
• 5:44
  talked a lot about loyalty and I reckon super apps in Asia pack
• 5:47
  particularly not so much Australia, New Zealand, but
• 5:50
  Southeast Asia N Asia, we're seeing a real layer of loyalty
• 5:54
  driven through super apps, which is really unique to the region.
• 5:57
  When you think about super apps, we're talking about Ali, we're
• 6:00
  talking about WeChat in North Asia, we're talking about Grab
• 6:04
  in Southeast Asia, we're talking about Gojek and go to in in
• 6:07
  Indonesia. And these apps are the Southeast
• 6:12
  actually it's been very mobile LED and but also you know you go
• 6:14
  to China, it's very mobile LED. These apps are really growing.
• 6:17
  The volumes of spend going through them is insane.
• 6:20
  So they're growing at compound annual growth rates and will be
• 6:23
  for the next probably 5 or 6 years, about 30% a year, which
• 6:26
  is in which like we're talking about $220 billion spent through
• 6:31
  super apps, which is wild. The implication for retailers is
• 6:36
  it's a bit like Amazon in the US or you know, eBay in Australia
• 6:39
  or where the retailers sort of damned if they do, damned if
• 6:42
  they don't. They have to be involved, right?
• 6:45
  Because they aggregate such audience, it's, it's easy to
• 6:48
  pay, but the potential is, is loss of control.
• 6:52
  The brand, they lose margin obviously by going through the
• 6:55
  platform, you know, they lose the way potentially the way
• 6:59
  they're being their product is being merchandised and exposed,
• 7:02
  but they have to walk a line. So I don't think there's, I
• 7:05
  don't think any retailer can ignore them, but it's actually
• 7:09
  how they choose to play. So it's and it's really unique
• 7:12
  to our region. So I think, I mean, if anyone
• 7:14
  comes to the region, you know, if you go into China down
• 7:17
  Alipay, put your credit card in before you go there and go and
• 7:20
  experience it because it'll blow your mind.
• 7:22
  My Chinese team, we went, we talked saying karaoke and it's
• 7:24
  like Easter eggs and games. They went to the karaoke place
• 7:27
  and they tried to work out how WeChat was integrated with the
• 7:30
  venue. Every every venue's a surprise
• 7:32
  so. It's true.
• 7:33
  It's true. Yeah.
• 7:35
  It's like there's a football team, you have to choose the
• 7:37
  football team and then you have to live and die by it in the
• 7:39
  terms of which ecosystem you're going to go into.
• 7:43
  And then how that all manages your inventory, how that manages
• 7:47
  your delivery, how that manages your payment and it well, anyway
• 7:51
  that that that's my view. And then in in terms.
• 7:53
  Of you think about, they say perhaps, but I think that the
• 7:55
  volumes are going think about the data these guys are holding.
• 7:58
  Yeah, right. And, and the, and the, and the
• 8:00
  knowledge they have about certain categories, right.
• 8:03
  It's it could be as a retailer, that's quite scary.
• 8:05
  No, it is. But and I also think that the
• 8:08
  interesting bit is how most of those digital companies is
• 8:13
  mobile 1st may not actually think about data the same way
• 8:17
  retailers are thinking about data.
• 8:19
  And when is mobile first data versus the other richness of
• 8:24
  data from offline. That's actually like a huge
• 8:27
  missing bit because how much time are you really online?
• 8:30
  How much time are you really offline?
• 8:32
  I think that that's something that we've not yet gone into and
• 8:35
  and can prove to be very interesting.
• 8:37
  So I still think while retailers now need to pay attention, but
• 8:41
  at the same time we mustn't forget about there are other
• 8:45
  things that we need to care about like ecosystem play, for
• 8:48
  example, who are your stakeholders in the whole
• 8:51
  ecosystem of your customer, of your singular customer?
• 8:54
  What is their ecosystem and how can you tap into each one of
• 8:57
  that? So Super App may be just one
• 8:59
  portion of that affects the life of a customer, but there are
• 9:02
  many other things too. So how can you be a part of all
• 9:05
  those to do this? I think China is a really
• 9:08
  curious case of it's so different in the way that they
• 9:12
  have changed how people use super app and how they
• 9:17
  everywhere they go, they are expecting points.
• 9:20
  They are whatever food they are, they're looking for discount
• 9:23
  vouchers first across like different platforms and they
• 9:25
  find it, they'll sit down and they will, I'm going to use this
• 9:28
  and I'm going to get free this. And and they, they seem so happy
• 9:31
  with that, right? And I'm thinking, but, but this
• 9:34
  comes at a real cost to retailers.
• 9:37
  And is it giving them the kind of support that they do need?
• 9:41
  Yes, of course, when you first start, you're you're quite happy
• 9:43
  to dish out a lot of goodies, you know, But in the long run,
• 9:45
  how sustainable this is going to look like and is that going to
• 9:48
  affect the quality of the stuff that you're putting out?
• 9:51
  So that's also something that we need to care about because just
• 9:54
  like how it's blowing up into how we're using it, if you are
• 9:58
  cancelled, you are likely really cancelled.
• 10:01
  Yeah. I got you moving on you and
• 10:03
  you've got 2 lovely stories for us as well.
• 10:06
  Well, I was going to say that I I it raised my eyebrows.
• 10:10
  Not very much, but it raised my eyebrow about how a Fuji
• 10:14
  influencer company in Malaysia is going for public listing.
• 10:18
  Wow. Incredible.
• 10:20
  Do you? Think I've always been thinking
• 10:21
  that influencers are, are necessary for marketing for
• 10:26
  sure. Yeah, because they, they're
• 10:29
  authentic. They they talk about their
• 10:30
  experiences, they think about content completely differently
• 10:33
  and they are really handy for most marketing campaign, you
• 10:38
  know, but for a company of influences coming together and
• 10:44
  having various different channels to be public listed, I
• 10:47
  think that is saying a lot about this is no longer just a trend.
• 10:51
  Of course, the conversation is also like, hey, but you're using
• 10:54
  all kinds of social media to support your business, right?
• 10:57
  So all the social media platform need to do is just to tweak or
• 11:01
  change a little bit of the algorithm and what happens to
• 11:03
  your company? What, where where do you dance?
• 11:06
  Stan? What is your business model?
• 11:08
  I think this are really interesting question, but you
• 11:11
  know, for them to already be able to stand up and say I'm I
• 11:15
  want to be listed. That in itself is such a great,
• 11:18
  great story. Yeah, I think it's a test.
• 11:20
  Go on. And it's, I think for me, we
• 11:23
  talked about too, you know, I think content is the oil that's
• 11:26
  driving a new retail economy. And I think that, you know, Gen
• 11:30
  Z, Gen Z is, is this generation which is 3 years away from being
• 11:34
  the dominant retail generation. You know, they are the just
• 11:36
  consuming demographic in some markets are sooner rather than
• 11:39
  later because some markets in South Asia are younger or older.
• 11:41
  But The thing is that this content is the oil.
• 11:44
  It drives a rational decision that leads to an in store
• 11:47
  purchase, which is the emotional engagement.
• 11:49
  And quite often that's where retailers are going for those
• 11:51
  big experiences in store. But this content is the oil for
• 11:55
  rational decisions. And that research piece, it's
• 11:58
  been done online for this next generation of consumers, which
• 12:01
  are almost the dominant generation now, right.
• 12:03
  So this, this example of list a content company is absolutely on
• 12:09
  point because it's absolutely it is because you you're seeing it
• 12:13
  when I talk to someone like Mecca in Australia, right?
• 12:15
  They are a digital company which have been amazing in content.
• 12:18
  They have built 2 massive flagship experiences.
• 12:21
  Right now consumers are going retouching online, going in
• 12:24
  store, having a magical experience and not even buying a
• 12:27
  store, going back on island buying all this stuff, right?
• 12:30
  The store is the role of the store has changed, but content
• 12:33
  is setting all this up and I and this is this.
• 12:36
  Well, this thing like this is absolutely on point with what
• 12:38
  we're seeing around the region. You know what, what you're
• 12:40
  saying is a bit more like responsible content.
• 12:42
  But what if it's not really responsible content?
• 12:44
  You know, then, then. Well, that's The thing, is that
• 12:46
  more than half the policy. To report this yet?
• 12:49
  Well, there's plenty of irresponsible content.
• 12:50
  There's more. I mean, more than half the
• 12:52
  content being produced now is done by AI and who's government?
• 12:55
  Yeah. So, so you don't know that.
• 12:57
  But I think that, you know, ultimately, you know, it's gonna
• 13:00
  be the the AI and the search engines who are of living
• 13:04
  delivering are gonna have to take some sort of responsibility
• 13:06
  really in terms of the the the material I serve up.
• 13:09
  Because. I agree.
• 13:09
  That's what's going to I agree, because everyone's going to
• 13:12
  question their integrity. Perfect you and your all.
• 13:14
  Right, Alex, You can, you can talk now, Alex.
• 13:17
  That's OK, don't worry, it's called you and your.
• 13:23
  Quest story. Is it me again?
• 13:24
  Or is it you and odd you and no one?
• 13:25
  Is it me? Oh, excited.
• 13:27
  I'm losing count. I've done three.
• 13:30
  I think I've done one. We've done three, I think.
• 13:32
  Yes, yes, please. All right.
• 13:34
  All right, I'll, I'll do my, my second one today is and I've
• 13:37
  been talking this has been, it's not my area of expertise, I'll
• 13:40
  first to admit that, but I, but I've really got under the hood
• 13:43
  of it in terms of understanding sourcing and sourcing,
• 13:46
  responsible sourcing in this region, Southeast Asia
• 13:49
  particularly, we've got one really developed market, which
• 13:52
  is Singapore and then five really other developing markets
• 13:55
  I would suggest at various levels.
• 13:57
  And, and so, and all of the both primary producers and
• 14:01
  manufacturing bases as well. And what we're seeing now is a
• 14:05
  real shift in this region and transformation.
• 14:07
  And that's primarily driven by North American companies and
• 14:11
  European companies who are being held to a higher standard.
• 14:14
  And so the therefore manufacturers and primary
• 14:17
  producers in Southeast Asia, for example, have to be have to be
• 14:20
  compliant to tick the box to play the game.
• 14:22
  Yeah, to be, to be on the supply chain of some of these big
• 14:25
  international companies. And we're talking supply chain
• 14:27
  companies like Fast Retailing and to Marks and Spencer's.
• 14:30
  Yeah, the implication for this is, you know, it's actually,
• 14:33
  it's really positives coming through.
• 14:35
  So, you know, the protection of workers, you know, and the most
• 14:39
  vulnerable of workers, right. So the people who are either
• 14:43
  migratory workers or the poorest of our societies who who need
• 14:47
  protection and, and need protection through this
• 14:49
  legislation to producers, not just manufacturers, because
• 14:53
  that's probably more protection of workers, but more about
• 14:55
  primary producers. Thinking about the impact, the
• 14:57
  economic impact in there, both local zone, but also the
• 15:00
  environmental impact and the sustainable, the things that
• 15:02
  happen that means that they are operating in a certain way.
• 15:05
  And so for me, what we're seeing right now is some some retailers
• 15:08
  who are doing some really cool stuff.
• 15:09
  The one that I was going to talk about today was fast retailing
• 15:12
  out of Japan. And fast retailers has a human
• 15:15
  rights governance within their organisation, which is really
• 15:19
  neat. You know, So what what we're
• 15:21
  talking about here is at a board level, right, these guys are
• 15:26
  thinking about responsible supply chains, right?
• 15:29
  From a human rights perspective, they're thinking about workers
• 15:32
  conditions. They're actually holding
• 15:34
  suppliers and manufacturers to account.
• 15:36
  So what that means is indirectly, is there some
• 15:39
  transfer of wealth to some transfer of conditions that we
• 15:44
  expect in our daily life that are now being lifted and placed
• 15:47
  in countries like Vietnam or countries like Philippines or
• 15:50
  Indonesia, which is pretty special, right?
• 15:52
  And so I think we've talked about this, what I'm coming
• 15:55
  around to is we're talking about this great wealth generation
• 15:59
  we're having all these people in Asia Pacific or Southeast Asia
• 16:01
  really join the middle class. A lot of this responsible
• 16:04
  sourcing, this manufacturers, Prima producers has been driven
• 16:07
  by the behaviour of companies who are outside the region.
• 16:11
  And I think that's a really admirable thing that is
• 16:13
  happening because you know, there are certainly when I I sat
• 16:16
  down with the supply chain leader for for Puma last year,
• 16:19
  and she said she's a passionate person in this area, right, both
• 16:22
  workplace sustainability, those sort of things.
• 16:25
  And what she was saying is one of it's making my job easier
• 16:28
  because I can dismiss all the suppliers who aren't playing the
• 16:31
  game properly. But more importantly, what we're
• 16:32
  hearing is because she's obviously they're German.
• 16:34
  And so the EU standards quite high, which he talked to
• 16:37
  governments like Vietnam, they're saying, well, you're
• 16:39
  held to a higher extended. We need you to behave this in
• 16:42
  our market, in our backyard because why are you doing this?
• 16:46
  This lifts the the prospects for our people.
• 16:48
  This lifts the prospects for our country, right?
• 16:51
  We get paid in kind for what we deserve to be paid, not what the
• 16:54
  market's driving us to and pushing us to be a commodity.
• 16:57
  So I think this is really neat. And I think, I think overtime we
• 17:01
  will see a transformation and we'll see, we'll see supply
• 17:04
  chains move. But I think ultimately now it's
• 17:06
  what it's done is actually built.
• 17:08
  It's it's building wealth in the region, which probably we
• 17:10
  haven't seen them in in the past and creating opportunities for
• 17:13
  all people in in these markets. OK.
• 17:16
  I mean, I know I said we're going to try and keep it to 15
• 17:18
  minutes and we've gone over, but I guess closing thoughts you and
• 17:23
  any closing thoughts? I, I, I do like to see a little
• 17:26
  bit more responsibility in retail really that consumers and
• 17:32
  customers can take action on and not just, you know, hiding
• 17:37
  behind CSR or something, but like proper.
• 17:39
  So I, I do take my hats off when I think was it DFI recently
• 17:45
  that's going to work with Gen M, if I'm not wrong.
• 17:48
  Yeah, yes, correct. Gen M collective.
• 17:50
  And so they are offering all this menopausal items and giving
• 17:55
  you where to go to for menopause products that is certified and
• 18:00
  and you know, we are an ageing globe.
• 18:03
  So it is something that is really very much appreciated.
• 18:07
  Well, especially when the consumers and the customers can
• 18:09
  also participate. So it's not just about the
• 18:11
  company, it's also about how is the stuff that you're doing,
• 18:15
  doing impact beyond your business?
• 18:17
  OK, cool. Reef.
• 18:19
  Can you ask me that question? That question, Yeah, yeah.
• 18:23
  What's, what's your closing thought, Alex?
• 18:25
  I'd like to hear from your opinion.
• 18:26
  You've been quite quiet today, so I'd like to hear your
• 18:28
  thoughts. Thanks, Rick.
• 18:30
  I think in my mind there's three things as I as I do the show
• 18:34
  around the world and I'm not going to get into it, but
• 18:36
  there's three speeds. There's retail at the speed of
• 18:39
  culture, there's retail at the speed of experience, and then
• 18:42
  there's retail at the speed of intelligence.
• 18:44
  And what I think you guys have beautifully spoken about is how
• 18:48
  retail falls into, you know, is it culture?
• 18:51
  Is it relevant? And it's intelligence.
• 18:53
  Ideally you'll have all three. And that's where the top right
• 18:56
  is. You know, that's the magic
• 18:58
  quadrant that people are moving towards.
• 19:00
  But I think that's in my mind, it sort of compounds that
• 19:04
  thinking. How about you?
• 19:05
  What's what's your closing thoughts?
• 19:07
  I think, I think for me, my clothes, we're coming back to
• 19:10
  the experience pace and I think we're super apps.
• 19:12
  I think when we talk about Australians and as an
• 19:16
  Australian, you'd have, no, you have no comprehension of this,
• 19:19
  of what these are. And so if you're coming from
• 19:22
  outside Asia Pacific, for me, one of the things I would
• 19:25
  encourage you to do is before you arrive, download them, put
• 19:28
  your credit card in 'cause they're safe, right?
• 19:31
  And go and explore with them because it'll enhance your
• 19:34
  experience dramatically, both in retail, but everything from
• 19:37
  catching a taxi to, you know, to, to getting fast food
• 19:40
  delivered to anything. So, but the point is that the
• 19:43
  Super apps are a different way. They're a diff when it's
• 19:45
  something new. They're growing really quickly
• 19:47
  in a, we're in a mobile first world in this part of the world.
• 19:50
  And I really, I think that, you know, it'll give you a different
• 19:53
  perspective in terms of how retail works in this region.
• 19:55
  That's brilliant. Well, thank you.
• 19:57
  So with that, I'd like to thank you both for giving up your time
• 20:00
  and being on the show and until next week.
• 20:03
  Thank you mate. Thank you.