Latest / The Start, Scale & Succeed Podcast / Why Your Managers Stopped Managing with Mike Krupit (stage 4) - Ep. 426

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Why Your Managers Stopped Managing with Mike Krupit (stage 4) - Ep. 426 · The Start, Scale & Succeed Podcast

• 0:00
  Scott Ritzheimer: Hello, hello, and welcome, welcome once again
• 0:03
  to the Start, Scale, and Succeed podcast-the only podcast that
• 0:06
  grows with you through all seven levels of your journey as a
• 0:09
  founder. I'm your host Scott Ritzheimer, and today we're
• 0:12
  going to talk about managers and why it seems that sometimes they
• 0:17
  stop managing. There's this story that I tell all the time
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  when I'm teaching, it was actually a client of mine. I was
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  asking him about his team, and I was expecting him to say, you
• 0:26
  know, this person's great or that person the other. And he
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  just paused for a moment. He looked up at me and he said, you
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  know, if you had asked me about my team six months ago, I'd have
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  told you I have the best team in the world. But some point in the
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  last six months, we just got dumb. It's like we're tripping
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  over our feet. I don't know what happened, but we can't seem to
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  get anything right. How is it that great teams stop producing
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  great results, and what can you do about it? Well, if I had the
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  answer, no, I'm just kidding. We've got with us today a
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  gentleman who who has done this a time or two. He knows his way
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  around it. With us today is Mike Croupett, who is founder and CEO
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  of Trajectify, where he helps growth stage technology,
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  manufacturing, and professional services companies to bridge the
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  gap between early success and scalable leadership. With more
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  than 30 years of experience as a CTO, COO, and CEO, Mike has led
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  organizations through rapid growth, IPOs, M&As, and even
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  bankruptcies, giving him rare real-world insight into what
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  actually works when the stakes are so high. Known for his
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  practical and candid approach, he helps founders and CEOs build
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  courage, align their organizations, and unlock
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  momentum from the inside out. Mike, what's happening? here?
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  How do we just get dumb, and and what can we do about it? So, a
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  lot of founders will find themselves in this place where
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  they've been through a season of success, and I think that's
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  important to articulate. Is this isn't necessarily like the
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  startup problem, although that's a very real thing, these are
• 2:02
  folks who beat the startup problem and are bumping into
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  something else. What is that?
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  Mike Krupit: Well, Scott, one thing I'll say first and
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  foremost is people don't often change, and so if the the
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  outcomes right getting dumb if things aren't going as well as
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  they used to. Something changed other than the people, and
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  that's always where I start to my my exploration, where I get
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  curious, where I start to ask questions about what's
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  different, and and that we can go in a in a dozen different
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  directions because it's always, it's often something else.
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  Because one of the things we know about getting through these
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  stages is you you hit some plateau, and then you've got to
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  figure out you know what gets me to the next one.
• 2:53
  Scott Ritzheimer: So particularly for those that are
• 2:56
  in that have had the success, but they're trying to scale, and
• 3:01
  they find themselves kind of two steps forward, two steps back.
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  They have a year of success and a year of frustration. What what
• 3:08
  do you find to be the primary drivers of that kind of cycle?
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  What's changing outside the team for that pattern to hold?
• 3:16
  Mike Krupit: Well, often we're a victim of our own successes.
• 3:19
  It's growth, right? So, you know what works for a $1 million
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  company won't work for a 2 million or two to five or five
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  to 10 to sort of you know grossly estimate them. the The
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  fact is that we have to constantly be evolving our
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  people, making sure we have the right people in the right seats,
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  our processes, our systems, our perspectives, our you know
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  perspectives meaning expectations, accountabilities,
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  outcomes, and so there's every time we hit a new level, things
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  need to change, right? You know, and the people aren't going to
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  change, right? So we need we need we need the either the the
• 4:04
  organization to change and bring the people with it, or we need
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  to change the people.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, what is that? Because it feels like the
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  role is to to like help lead this thing forward. It's to help
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  me as the CEO and to manage these other people that I don't
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  have to manage, and so it can feel like a distinction without
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  a difference. What are some of the markers that there is a new
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  level, and and how does that change who we need as the
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  leaders around us?
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  Mike Krupit: Sure. Well, the markers are often I can
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  characterize them as a feeling of being stuck. Right, I'm not
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  meeting my goals. It's it's profits are decreasing. It's
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  taking more effort to generate the same revenue. I'm losing
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  confidence, right? In a more emotional take on it. I used to
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  I used to be sure how to how to get this these things
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  accomplished and. I don't know, so so the markers could be
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  financial, they could be emotional, or it could just be
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  that nothing is moving. I'm watching my dashboard, and
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  nothing is moving. And what happens often is our people or
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  our processes just don't keep up with the business. The business
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  grows, and we're expected to grow with it. Our systems are
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  expected to scale with it, and something's, you know, it's very
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  often that something won't. And we've got to we've got to get
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  and do our root cause analysis and go figure out where what is
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  keeping us stuck. What is is creating these elements of of
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  that that I'm of uncertainty?
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  Scott Ritzheimer: When I've coached with founders that are
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  going through this this period, and and they learn what it takes
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  to scale. So it's not this like I just don't know how to do it
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  anymore, but they know. Okay, this is what it's going to take.
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  There seems to be one reason that rises above all the rest
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  that they still decline to do so. And the number one reason
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  that someone who knows at least what direction to go to scale
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  chooses another direction, in my experience, has been their we'll
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  call it their trusty right hand man or woman. It's not always
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  their second in command, but it's some meaningful leader on
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  their team, and they've got a personal and professional
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  relationship. They've got you know years of sweat equity, you
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  know the blood, sweat, and tears, the shared experience,
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  all of that. But they recognize, like you said, people don't
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  change, and to in this context, they're not the same. They're
• 6:42
  not the leader that they need moving forward. Yeah. How do you
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  help folks navigate? Like, should you scale anyway? Should
• 6:49
  you not scale? How do you help folks walk that decision?
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  Mike Krupit: Yeah. It's it's difficult conversations are very
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  hard to get good at. Maybe maybe I'll say that we never really
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  get good at difficult conversations, but we may get
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  skilled at having them. So that's a skill I tend to work
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  with, work with founders on is is being comfortable with the
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  uncomfortable elements of what it is that we're doing. So so
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  often conflict avoidance, we not wanting to have authentic,
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  vulnerable conversations with some of these key players in our
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  organization. People who maybe we feel a commitment to because
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  they've been with us since the beginning, or or people or or
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  other things are moving, and it's like you know what I don't
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  want to deal with it. It's too disruptive. I've worked with
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  founders who have punted decisions, people decisions for
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  two years because they kept finding other distractions that
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  they thought were more important, and then of course
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  they make the decision about the person two years later and
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  realize, hmm, I should have done this sooner. Everything's better
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  now, or everything's easier now, and so it's it's it's a matter
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  of for me building the skill and having difficult in in mastering
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  difficult conversations.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, I was it Marshall Goldsmith is famous for
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  what got you here won't get you there. There's also the who
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  version of that. Who got you here won't get you there. Right.
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  I just had this conversation with a gentleman last week. He's
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  he's leading a business. He's not quite at this point yet, but
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  he could see it coming. You know, and and and through the
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  course of the the content we were sharing together, he he saw
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  like this pattern is playing out, and he asked me, "Well,
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  what can I do so that my my people can make the leap? Like,
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  how can I train them now so that they can evolve with me? I'd be
• 8:45
  interested to have your take on that. Is that something that's
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  possible? Is that something that we should do? Can we develop our
• 8:51
  team all the way through?
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  Mike Krupit: We all have the capacity to grow, and so if our
• 8:57
  leadership or our organization invests in growth, we're all
• 9:02
  given that chance to grow with the organization. Now, a
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  fast-growing organization might require fast-growing people, and
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  that's not all of us. I remind a lot of founders as they're in
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  their evolution towards being a full-fledged call a CEO that
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  they're responsible to coach their team members, you know.
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  And so, what I find often, I had this conversation with a with a
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  founder a lot recently about rescuing the team. The team is
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  on the verge of making a mistake or isn't getting it. So I'll
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  come in, I'll do it for you, I'll do it with you. It's like,
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  why not let them fail? Why not let them learn from that
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  failure, and why not invest in giving them space to grow?
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  Because these rescues are very expensive in your time, but also
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  in in in a sense putting boundaries around their own
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  their growth. So it's it's so part of this. To to improve the
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  outcomes, we want to get the founders and the leadership team
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  to think like coaches to bring their organization forward with
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  the with the company as as the company grows.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, sometimes the more heart forward
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  founders have a tendency to do that, maybe better than others,
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  but can they run the risk of trying to get somebody to turn
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  into something that that person doesn't want to be? Have you
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  seen that happen?
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  Mike Krupit: Yeah, it happens very frequently. You know,
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  especially in the startup world at the early stages, it is
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  because in the early stages, things are changing so rapidly.
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  The not everyone can grow at the rate that the organization is is
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  needing that additional capability. That doesn't mean
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  there's still not room in the organization for them, right? So
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  we're constantly evaluating accountabilities and positions
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  and and relationships with an organization. So, for example, a
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  an organization I work with who had one of the co-founders doing
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  sales was more of an evangelist. He was an introvert, sat behind
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  the computer, did Zoom calls, loved doing demos. There was a
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  lot of inbound opportunity, but when that inbound opport when
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  when all the low hanging fruit had been picked, so to speak, we
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  needed a different type of salesperson. We brought in
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  someone who was more of a hunter, more outgoing, who
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  definitely broke company culture because they were very
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  extroverted. You know, the kind person who walks into the office
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  at 8o'clock in the morning and high fives everyone, which which
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  takes a technology company of of a bunch of of reserve people and
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  makes them really uncomfortable and and within a couple months,
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  the new salesperson was out producing the old salesperson,
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  the original, the co-founder, and eventually they both grew
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  together. They they both you know they both grew. But
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  sometimes you introduce something that's ahead of where
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  you need to be, or ahead of where you thought you where you
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  had planned to be, and and the rest of the organization follows
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  along or provides a complementary role for that for
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  that new individual,
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  Scott Ritzheimer: That's so good. So, Mike, there's this
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  question that I have that I ask him. I guess I'm interested to
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  see what you'd have to say, and the question is this: What would
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  you say is the biggest secret that you wish wasn't a secret at
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  all? What's that one thing you wish every founder watching or
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  listening today knew?
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  Mike Krupit: Invest in relationships before you think
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  you need them, right? And so often we may call that just
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  building rapport. But you know, one day you're going to have to
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  have a difficult conversation. You have some conflict. You
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  maybe have an ask, a favor to ask, or or problem to solve. It
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  was Teddy Roosevelt who said, "People don't care what you
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  think until they think that you care. It's building that
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  relationship with people first gives you the influence when you
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  need to cash in on it.
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  Scott Ritzheimer: Yeah, so good, so good. Invest in people before
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  you need it, yeah. There's a whole bunch of different ways I
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  can go with that. However, I want to try and keep this nice
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  and short and sweet for our our audience here. Before I do,
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  though, I got one more question for you, and that is: there's
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  folks who are going through this right now and would love help,
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  you know, just navigating all of these changes. Where can they
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  connect with you? Where can they find out more about the work
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  that you do?
• 13:41
  Mike Krupit: Sure. trajectify.com, t r a j e c t i
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  f y, or or Mike Krupit on LinkedIn. Happy to accept
• 13:47
  connection requests and direct message me about about where
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  you're feeling stuck.
• 13:53
  Scott Ritzheimer: Brilliant, brilliant, Mike. Thank you so
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  much for being on. Really was a privilege and honor having you
• 13:58
  here. Great conversation, and for those of you watching and
• 14:00
  listening, you know your time and attention mean the world to
• 14:03
  us. I hope you got as much out of this conversation as I know I
• 14:06
  did, and I cannot wait to see you next time. Take care.
• 14:15
  Hey everyone, Scott Ritzer here. Thank you so much for listening
• 14:19
  to the Start Scale and Succeed podcast. I hope this episode
• 14:23
  gave you exactly what you need for the level you're in right
• 14:26
  now. If you want to discover what level you're in, take our
• 14:30
  10 question Founders Evolution Quiz for free at
• 14:33
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• 14:36
  exactly where you are and give you tailored tips to move
• 14:40
  forward and reach that next level in your journey as a
• 14:43
  founder. If you got something out of today's episode, don't
• 14:47
  forget to subscribe, rate, or review. It helps us reach more
• 14:50
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• 14:54
  team, and all our incredible guests. So keep starting,
• 14:58
  scaling, and succeeding, and. I'll see you in the next episode.