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Dean Dwyer: The Downward Spiritual Spiral In Australia & America · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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  Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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  defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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  And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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  Welcome to another podcast, friends.
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  Thank you again, as always.
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  I mean it for your prayers and for sharing these episodes.
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  I've got my favorite, absolute favorite brother from Australia with us back today, pastor
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  Dean Dwyer from Isar Street Baptist Church.
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  Brother, so good to see you again.
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  Thanks for your time.
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  Thanks for the introduction, David.
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  Always happy to be your favorite Australian.
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  So it's a tag that I'll try and live up to during these next 30 minutes.
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  And you can find out more about Dean over on harbingersdaily.com.
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  He's got an author page there, harbingersdaily.com.
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  And also the website for the church, iserstreetbaptisturch.com, E-I-S-E-R, streetbaptisturch.com.
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  You also find him and his sermons on YouTube under iserstreetbaptisturch.com.
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  So Dean, the topic today, interesting, this was your suggestion and I love it.
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  We've talked about Australia before and America and Barnard Research and the spiritual declines.
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  But we're going to talk a little bit more about the shifting spiritual landscape, right,
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  while declining, and the occult in Australia, but it's not a whole lot different than
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  America.
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  I can, I get your take on that, who kind of is ahead of the game when it comes to the decline.
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  But where do you want to start?
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  Because you talk about, right at the beginning, you talk about a communist Christianity paradigm.
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  Can you explain that?
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  Yeah, I think you referenced America and in terms of where both of us sit.
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  If you listen to, we had some conferences recently where friends of the show and friends
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  of yours, Ken Michael, Mundo Gonzalez, Tom Hughes came over last year, but not this year.
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  And when they examined the spiritual landscape of Australia, they thought that Australia
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  was well ahead of America in terms of its decline in Christianity.
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  So we probably wouldn't disagree with that.
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  I think we've felt that from a spiritual point of view in Australia that things have
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  been shifting pretty rapidly.
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  When I talk about a communist Christianity paradigm, I think in most Western nations
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  now, we're used to seeing a left-right paradigm, and that's certainly true of America.
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  Australia is a little bit different.
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  We don't necessarily have the left-right paradigm, but certainly we can see as ministry leaders
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  in a communist Christianity paradigm, which fundamentally at its core is left and right.
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  But it's more noticeable in the fact that we are really moving into a communist footprint
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  rather than being known as a Christian nation.
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  Right.
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  And you had travel out and on the show recently, and I haven't read his book, but I'm
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  interested in it because, as you know, he did a deep dive into our Prime Minister, Anthony
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  Albanese, who has a very long history with the communist principles.
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  That's right.
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  As a nation, we've re-elected him.
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  Now, I didn't vote for him, and many of the people I know didn't vote for him because
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  we know what he stands for, but as one of the reviewers of Trevor's book said, if more
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  Australians read that book, then I don't think he would have been re-elected.
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  But I think part of the problem, though, David, is that a lot of people don't know what
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  communism is.
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  They don't understand what Marxism is or what socialism is.
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  And that was highlighted by the fact that we've had a poll in the last couple of years,
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  where 40% of Australians, overall, now support socialism.
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  And so that rises to about half in the 18 to 34-year-old category.
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  And so, and as of last year, when they took these polls again, 53% of 18 to 24-year-olds
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  got more socialism.
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  So we're definitely heading in that direction in terms of where people want to see the
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  nation going.
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  But you and I know that as socialism, Marxism, and communism increases within a population,
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  Christianity declines, which is more and more people are attracted to a government,
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  which acts as a nanny state, and ostensibly wants to put itself in the position of God
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  and nanny.
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  So this is, I think, why I describe it as a communist Christianity paradigm in this
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  nation at the moment.
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  Okay.
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  So let's clarify something.
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  Socialism is a necessary step towards communism.
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  We've got a lot of people here in the states that are now saying the quiet part out loud.
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  I'm a Democrat socialist.
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  I mean, sure.
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  Yeah.
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  So they're social.
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  By the way, look back at when Hillary Clinton was running against Donald Trump.
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  And how many young people went for Bernie Sanders?
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  And we're openly supporting socialism.
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  And you say something very interesting, Dean.
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  You say nearly half of young people demand more socialism, but don't know what it means.
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  Do you attribute that to the education system in Australia?
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  Because that's what we do over here.
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  It's the K through 12 in the universities.
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  They can't explain it.
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  They can't defend it.
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  They can't really, they just get upset.
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  They know what they're, they know what they're fighting for, but they can't really articulate
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  your thoughts.
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  100%.
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  100%.
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  I put that at the feet of the education system.
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  So the stats were back in 2019, they said 28% of young people polled, admitted that they
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  didn't know what socialism was.
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  They did not know how to define socialism.
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  And the laughable thing was that another 13% thought that socialism was about being more
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  sociable.
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  So you've got nearly half of young people, you can see the placards out on the street.
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  We want more socialism.
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  We don't know what it is or how to define it, but we want it.
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  It's sad.
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  It's ridiculous.
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  It is.
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  But you're absolutely right.
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  And we have a growing homeschooling part of our education system in Australia, but it's
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  still probably frowned upon.
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  And so I think it's still growing.
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  I think people are still seeing an increasing need for a good homeschooling program within
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  Australia, but it's very fragmented amongst all of the states.
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  So hopefully within the homeschooling sector, they are really drilling down on some of
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  these things, because as you can see, it's very important not only for the spiritual health
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  of a nation, but also fundamentally for the financial health of a nation, because we
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  know that wherever communism has been introduced into a nation, that nation has not succeeded
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  whatsoever.
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  That's right.
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  And I want to clarify something from your article.
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  And by the way, friends, you can find all of Dean's writings over at harbingersdaily.com.
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  If you go to Dean's page there, but you said that in the socialist worldview, humanism
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  replaced God as the great architect of history.
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  And then you talk about a census going back about almost five years that 44% of Australians
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  identified with Christianity, but it sounds good.
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  But let's talk about that word identified, because as you know, sometimes Dean Dwyer,
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  we've got to put Christian or Christianity in air quotes when you're talking about what
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  people believe that they might not really be Christian.
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  Go ahead and share your thoughts on that.
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  Amen.
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  I know, I think in America, if I say Chino, then you might immediately think of pants.
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  But Chino, we have an acronym which is Christian in name only.
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  And I think that's a defining problem, not only in Australia, but it also is throughout
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  the world as well.
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  And that's right.
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  Yeah.
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  Amen.
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  And so this is where they got to in terms of some of this polling, was that they, in the
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  poll, 44% of Australians identified with Christianity.
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  But when they were asked if they are Christian, all of a sudden it's only 34% who say that
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  they are Christians.
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  So there's 10% of people who might identify with Christianity, but don't consider themselves
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  a Christian.
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  So we can explain that by saying, well, maybe they've been raised in a family.
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  Maybe they went to a Christian school, but we know that identifying as a Christian is
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  not the same as being one and more importantly being saved through Jesus Christ.
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  So that was pretty eye-opening to me that to this, there's a good proportion of people
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  who probably don't understand the nature of Christianity if they think that being identified
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  is around the same thing as being a Christian.
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  That's right.
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  Can you explain something real quick, something fascinating from what you sent me about, there's
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  the demographic of recently widowed, 22%, over 55%, 16%, recently separated and divorced,
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  14%, this is a lot of people, a lot of adults, and then you say nearly every church might
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  have an active youth ministry, but they don't necessarily minister to those, these adults
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  that were recently widowed and whatnot.
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  So can you share a little bit more about that?
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  That's interesting to me.
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  This was from a faith report released just recently in Australia.
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  These come out semi-regulately, which is really helpful for ministry leaders because it
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  allows us to see what's really going on when people answer questions honestly.
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  So this was the question around who had moved on average from no religion to Christianity.
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  So overall, there was a shift from people who identified with no religion and then became
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  identified with Christianity that overall that was 11%.
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  But when you break that down into some of those key demographic areas, then all of a sudden,
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  we see recently widowed that average goes up to 22%, 55% and over 16%, Aboriginal and
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  Torres Strait Islander, 15%, and the recently separated or divorced 14%.
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  So I think that what that indicates is that people who have had a major life change
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  or people who are getting older probably start to think or reflect on their life a little
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  bit more and are searching.
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  So the comment I made was that we specifically target the youth, and we should continue to
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  do that because we know that the youth are bombarded with various messages from the world
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  which are unhelpful, unholy and unrighteous.
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  But what the faith report indicates is that we should really be putting work into some
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  of those other key demographic areas because these people are searching, and so we've never
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  had in many churches a program for the recently widowed or the 55 and over or the recently
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  separated or divorced.
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  So it instructs us as ministry leaders that, hey, people are searching not just in their
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  youth, but also at other various stages of their life.
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  So it's important for us to be able to volitionally target some of those demographics with the
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  hope of the gospel.
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  So before we take a break, let's talk about the youth in America and is this different
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  because I was looking at the numbers of church attendance, Gen Z, Gen Y, Gen X, in America,
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  I think we really kind of miss the boat as far as we meaning the biblical church in America
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  which is a minority, the remnant church in America.
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  We miss the boat when it comes to reaching millennials and that generation.
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  And then now the generation after them, I guess that would be generation Z, Gen Z.
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  It seems like there's a spike in interest in faith and spiritual things.
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  There's more seekers.
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  There's more young people really wanting truth, really wanting to find something that's
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  real.
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  And I'm seeing some of that, Dean, on college campuses, articles I'm reading about, not necessarily
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  revivals, but there's athletes on college campuses that are doing baptisms and their
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  preach in the gospel, they're getting people saved.
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  Well, wow, first of all, they're allowing that, which is amazing to me with the intolerance
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  of the biblical worldview here in America on campuses.
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  But there's more young people that are instigating this.
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  Is there something similar in Australia?
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  Unfortunately, not necessarily.
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  What that we see on mass, certainly not within our university systems, within our churches
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  somewhat different, I think that's what people are looking for and what you describe in
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  America.
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  I think the majority would say that they're looking for authenticity.
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  And I think this has become a problem for the modern church because there's a lot of
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  style over substance and I think this is why a lot of people are moving away from Christianity
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  as well.
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  We talk about the stats where people move into Christianity, but it's almost double the
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  proportion of those living Christianity.
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  And I think that's because we have or not we, but some churches have prioritized style
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  over substance.
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  And you go back to the early church, now these are people who prioritized substance over
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  style.
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  I mean, they didn't have the three pieces, they didn't have the jets, they didn't have
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  the million dollar smiles or the big mega churches.
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  They had the scars of faith.
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  And so when they talk to people, then people could relate to them because they were authentic,
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  they were genuine.
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  They could see that they came from the same place as they did and were able to speak
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  open to their lives because they came from the same persecution.
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  So I think that instead of seeing the style of Christianity, people want to see the scars
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  of Christianity.
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  That's true.
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  That's exactly right.
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  So that people are looking for something that's authentic and I think that is what the
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  young people are looking for, at least that's what I'm hearing is they want the authenticity.
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  So to do that, to give them that, sometimes I think we've got to do or the modern church
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  has to do away with the flashy part of Christianity and just get back to the substance and speak
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  into the people's lives and let them know there is real hope in Christianity, not just
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  to show.
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  Oh man, you had me at style over substance and sadly, that is what we see way too much
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  of in the modern church, but we've got to take a brief pause.
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  We're with Dean Dwyer, Isaac Street Baptist Church to Wimbledon, Australia.
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  You can find more at harbingersdaily.com.
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  We'll be right back today's show is brought to you by Harbinger's Daily World News Biblically
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  Understood.
• 15:14
  Stay informed at harbingersdaily.com.
• 15:20
  Alright friends, now we're going to take a very interesting turn and Dean, you mentioned
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  the occult in Australia opening the arms of the occult.
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  Now we're talking churches, we're talking Christianity, but when you start putting things
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  like style or entertainment over substance and equipping the saints, there are a lot
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  of problems and a lot of people can get the wrong information.
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  So you say, let's talk about celebrity endorsements.
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  You say those are, many are sleepwalking into the occult because celebrities are leading
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  the way and not necessarily biblical pastors, explain that a bit more please.
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  I have a saying that the back door of Christianity is leading to the front door of the occult
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  and it goes back to what I said prior to the break in that because people are looking
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  for something that's authentic and real and powerful in their lives, they're turning
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  away from Christianity which again prioritises the style of substance and they're turning
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  to the occult which we might have various ideas on what the occult is.
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  People think it's about black caked satinist meeting and underground layers but the occult
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  is everywhere.
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  It's pervasive, it's in TV shows, it's in movies, it's in art, literature, music.
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  So people are looking for something which is going to impact their lives directly and
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  unfortunately I think a lot of people are finding this in the occult and I get a sense, a growing
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  sense amongst ministry leaders, there was one person interviewed not long ago and he feels
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  this is going to be the key area for ministry leaders that we need to be able to deal with
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  and explain and warn about the dangers of the occult because people are going to seek
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  it more and more in their lives, sometimes very innocently, sometimes just out of curiosity
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  but satin uses the celebrity cult as the old bait and switch.
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  So he gets people to look at the lives of celebrities, the success of celebrities and tries
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  to convince people that hey you too can have that if only you will follow the same type of
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  methodology and one of that is to be able to be deeply involved in the occult which is
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  through various means, mediumship, divination, tarot cards, manifestation, we talked about
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  manifestation last time I was on the show and obviously Oprah's endorsement of various
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  things through Eckhart toll, ronda burn, through the secret.
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  So that's why I call it satin's bait and switch strategy because he tries to lure and
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  he does, he loers people into this celebrity cult through thinking they too can have the
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  same lifestyle as celebrities but he just drags them along, they find that they don't
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  have the same success but they still wander into the same darkness as many celebrities as
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  well.
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  So I think it's a growing problem in Christianity and I don't know that it's addressed
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  enough and that's why Harvages have published I think four articles to date is a fifth one
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  coming out very soon where I start to address a lot of these issues within the occult explaining
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  exactly what it is.
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  Going back the layers and the misunderstandings just to truly examine what it is and why
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  God speaks so strongly against it and I'll also be going into a sermon series very shortly
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  as well just to try and highlight some of these things and warn people why they should not
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  be involved in any of these practices.
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  It's amazing you wouldn't think you would have to tell Christians this if they knew their
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  Bibles if they read the Old Testament and the New Testament but anyway there's been in
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  an occult invasion there's been an explosion of things like Wicca and Witchcraft thanks
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  in part to the Harry Potter brand and many many more and video games and all these dark
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  things but I want to go back to something that you wrote about I didn't realize in Britain
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  I should check the University of America but you can get a master's degree in magic and
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  occult science what are you going to do with that?
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  What are you going to do with that degree?
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  Well I'll cost $34,000 so the first thing you need to do is just try and make your money
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  materialize again but this is the ridiculous nature again we go back to the education system
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  Traditionally you would go to university to learn a trade or to learn something in a field
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  which is able to help your community and so when we look at a degree in magic and occult
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  science I mean it sounds laughable and it sounds worthless and it should be because really
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  all you're suggesting is that you're going to use the supernatural to contact the demonic
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  world which is really what the occult is it's relying on a supernatural force it's looking
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  for mysterious hidden or secret knowledge but that's obtained through the demonic world
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  so look for anyone who wants to sign up to that type of university degree not only I think
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  are you wasting an extraordinary amount of money what you're doing as well as your leading
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  into some very dark forces which are not going to be good for your life so I think that
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  the problem though that we find is that going back to why people are heading at the back
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  door of Christianity into the front door of the occult is that the occult is very much
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  focused on self and so this is why it appeals to the majority of people because there's
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  a lot of narcissism in our world today so it's a counterfeit of divine revelation so this
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  is Satan's counterfeit system so that in the religion of self this is where you obtain
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  your divine revelation in order to support your religion of self and so this is why celebrities
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  love it because we know that a lot of them are narcissistic and this is why a lot of ordinary
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  people love it as well because it really focuses on self what can I get what knowledge can
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  I get what how can I make my life better and so this is why people are attracted to it but
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  again as I said it leans into the demonic world so let's talk briefly we've had Jen
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  Niza on former psychic and medium and the US is it the US psychic services industry valued
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  at 2.3 billion dollars that's just in the US yep absolutely right so look God very clearly
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  warns against occultic practices deuteronomy 18 now I know that was under the law and we're under
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  grace but the principle remains the same because of the origins of the occult I mean you're not
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  deriving power or knowledge from God through the Holy Spirit you are fundamentally turning to Satan
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  and the demonic world in order to try and garner information and so it's a warning that's gone
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  largely unheeded and so as you said 2.3 billion in the US alone and that would be multiplied
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  many times over if you look at those who use occultic practices throughout the world and again that's
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  as Jen Niza often speaks about that's as simple as something like going to a medium or a tarot
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  card reader or going to a manifestation coach I mean people might be shocked at just how pervasive
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  occult practices are but how simple it is to stumble into them as well so yeah we appreciate
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  the work of Jen Niza and Melissa Doherty and Doreen Virgil and people like that who have come
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  out of that world and are able to speak very clearly into why it's so wrong and these are the
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  voices we really need in Christianity and we really need I'd encourage fellow pastors to really
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  touch on these things they're not pleasant to touch on or speak from from the pulpit but I think
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  it's really important so that people are equipped to be able to recognize and stay away from
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  there's a lot of people there's a lot of things that people get lured into or just habits people
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  start forming checking your daily what is it astrological sign or whatever yoga yoga Hinduism things
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  like that that are that can be subtle but they're deception so pastors do need to warn about these
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  things yeah absolutely it's funny I just recently wrote an article which might appear at Harbinger's
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  daily very soon but it was about some of the Cold War tactics that were used by the Soviets
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  and they were using yoga not a lot of people know that in the yoga sutras serious yoga practitioners
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  their aim is to increase their psychic power so this is why yoga is used people think it's just
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  all stretching we know that there's some of those poses are to Hindu gods but it's also about
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  trying to contact or bring to the consciousness those psychic powers and so very strange to read
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  some of those old CIA reports and see that the Soviets were really trying to use this
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  as a battlefield advantage back through the Cold War okay we're already down to three minutes
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  Dean Dwyer I do want to mention people need to look up Edgar case C-A-Y-C-E I was I didn't hear
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  about this guy and you shared some very interesting things about him and the sleeping prophet and all
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  that so Edgar case will that be in your upcoming article that was touched on in a recent one so
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  that could be at Harbinger's daily so he pronounces his name Casey Edgar Casey so he was yeah one of
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  America's most famous psychics so anyone in the psychic service industry will know his name the
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  sleeping prophet he's called the sleeping prophet because apparently he was able to diagnose medical
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  issues while in a trance like or sleep like states so very strange okay let's wrap it up by
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  talking about perseverance you and I in our personal lives can both testify to the fact that this
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  is important principle biblical principle endurance and perseverance and you mentioned Hebrews 12
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  2 where Jesus endured the cross for the joy that was set before him and go ahead and share
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  whatever you'd like in the last couple minutes brother I think that in this age in particular we
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  know that we are in the end times and so we know that that's going to take a degree of perseverance
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  just by itself but I think the propensity sometimes is that as we see these faith reports and we
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  see people leaving the back door of Christianity and we see the great gains that programs like
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  communism and socialism and Marxism make and and see people turning to nature based religions and
• 26:11
  and even occult practices I think sometimes that might get us down I think sometimes that might
• 26:17
  wear us down so that it becomes harder to persevere not only through some of the shifting
• 26:23
  parts of the spiritual landscape we know the spiritual warfare is very real and we've got our own
• 26:29
  troubles and trials and afflictions as well so this is where I think it's an undertaught part
• 26:34
  of Christianity as well the necessary part of perseverance and I think that for people when you
• 26:40
  talk about perseverance they might think that that is just digging deep and we just got to dig deep
• 26:45
  and try and get through on our own strengths but that's certainly not biblical perseverance and so
• 26:52
  we know that the great paradox of Christianity is that we've got to make a volitional decision to be
• 26:56
  very engaged in our faith in terms of how we choose day to day to live but we can only do that
• 27:02
  through 100% reliance on the Holy Spirit and so this is the paradox of it that we've got to choose
• 27:09
  it but we don't have the strength to be able to choose it or carry it out and so we know I know your
• 27:15
  story David you know mine and for any other Christian as well things are tough and so we don't
• 27:21
  dispute that but the Bible has the answers and within that is perseverance and perseverance in some
• 27:28
  of the Greek language had a military context that if you were a soldier that you would hold the line
• 27:33
  no matter what the cost that is biblical perseverance and that is my encouragement to all people
• 27:39
  hold the line no matter what the cost you will be rewarded in the Father's Kingdom. Amen great
• 27:45
  way to end brother thank you soldiers of Christ so at harbingersdaily.com scroll down in the left
• 27:51
  hand column and Dean Dwyer is right between Ken Ham and Tony Perkins great people to be among brother
• 27:58
  thanks for your time today we'll do this again always a privilege thanks David God bless you friends
• 28:04
  and as always keep speaking the truth about things it matters