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Where and why CFOs have to say no · The Diary of a CFO

0:01
The path to the C -suite is rarely linear, and
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the challenges don't stop once you get there.
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I'm Wasee Akamon, and I'm taking you with me
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on my journey as a newly appointed CFO, sharing
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the hidden challenges, unspoken rules, and lessons
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I wish I had known. So whether you're in finance,
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work in finance, or just trying to get your budget
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approved faster, there's something here for you.
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The purpose of this podcast is to make better
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leaders and help leaders be better at life. Welcome
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to the Diary of a CFO. Hello, and welcome back
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to part three of What They Don't Tell You About
0:38
Becoming a CFO. Part three is simple, and that
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is that you cannot be a yes person and thrive,
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especially as a CFO. When you think about leadership
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in general, You saying yes to a lot of things,
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too many things, or not able to say no when you
1:00
need to shows four main things to others around
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you. One, it shows that you lack focus. Many
1:09
people are not considered for leadership because
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others see them as being all over the place.
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That alone shows you how being able to say no
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can help you stay on track and deliver the best
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possible results. The second thing is when you
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say yes to too many things, you're not able to
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always deliver on your priorities. See, effective
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leadership is a mindset. It requires constant
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prioritization of what matters most to deliver
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effective results. So by saying no, you are able
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to show that you can think strategically to make
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things happen. So let's say there is a project
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and Somebody says, hey, there is this other project
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I need to be on. And for some reason, you're
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like, yeah, sure. You could be shifting your
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energy. And in result, what you were actually
2:01
working on may not go as planned, may not go
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as well, because you divided your energy to something
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you probably didn't need to go in. So you have
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to be comfortable saying no when you need to.
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That's important for leadership in general. And
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it's also important for your personal brand.
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So your personal brand really rode when you are
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not able to say no when you need to. Because
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you'll find yourself, and I am guilty of that
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too, saying yes to a lot of things. But then
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you realize, ooh, I cannot do it. And so you
2:38
will let people down and your brand will suffer.
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Your mental health as well, because you won't
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see yourself as a dependable person, but that's
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really you saying yes to too many things. As
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a leader, it's important to say no to protect
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your team. Because if you say yes to everything,
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chances are you'll probably overload your team
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with non -value tasks. Because every time a department
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or so -and -so says something, bam, you do it.
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Bam, you go to your team and you're doing it.
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And it's not good. And it reminds me of a great
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quote by Ray Kroc that says, the quality of a
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leader is reflected in the standards they set
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for themselves. Again, the quality of a leader
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is reflected in the standards they set for themselves.
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You have to be comfortable saying no. There is
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no shortcut to it. So, so far we talked about
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four things. Four consequences of you not being
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able to comfortably say no. Saying yes too often.
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The first one is because you will seem to be
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all over the place. You won't have the focus,
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which secondly will not allow you to deliver
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on your priorities because you'll be too distracted.
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The third thing is when you're too distracted,
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your personal brain can suffer because again,
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you're not delivering on what you said you were
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going to do. And then the fourth thing is your
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team. As a leader, if you say yes to too much,
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you will be overwhelming your team with all these
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times that you saying yes from another department,
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just push back. just to safeguard your team,
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make sure that you deliver on your priorities.
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Now, why is it important, especially as we in
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this conversation about CFOs? Because the CFO
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sets a cultural tone for risk. Your attitude
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toward risk will shape the company's overall
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approach. Your decisions as a finance leader
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and guidance will influence everything from investment
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to operational strategies, from how we think
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about how we're going to spend money to the boundaries
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of what is acceptable risk taking in every department,
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sales, marketing, HR, IT, and all that. So you
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have to be able to know that you saying yes to
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everything could be reckless when you think about
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risk management. Are you considering all the
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risks associated with a particular decision?
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And so if one decision is risky, you have to
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say no, because you are responsible for protecting
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the business from itself. Yes, as a CFO, you
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are often the last line of defense against bad
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decisions. Whether it's an overly aggressive
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expansion or risky acquisition, you have to be
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the voice of reason. And that's even when everyone
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else is caught up in the excitement, yes, it's
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a great idea, let's do it, let's do it. And you
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come in and you're probably the CF no, right?
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And oh, no. They may see you like that, but you
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have to remember why you're doing this. Because
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you, again, setting the tone for risk. Same thing
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when you think about balancing short -term and
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long -term goals. As a CFO, you constantly have
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to juggle between meeting the short -term financial
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targets and long -term sustainability. And that's
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particularly hard for CFOs of public companies
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because you have investors sometimes wringing
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down your neck. You have activists. You have
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people who want to see the result now, now, now.
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They want dividends now, now, now. And it may
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not be helpful for the company. two, three, four,
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five, 10 years ahead. But as a CFO, as a finance
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leader, you will have that big picture. You'll
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be able to see from above what's going on and
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you'll be able to know that, yes, this may be
6:41
exciting in the short term, but it will not be
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in the long term. So as you're thinking about
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risk, as you're thinking about how you have to
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protect the business from itself, you have to
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be comfortable saying no. Another thing to consider
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is CFO CEO relationship. As a CFO, you report
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to the CEO and your success is tied to the CEO.
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That means sometimes the CEO will be excited
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about certain things, some risky things, the
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things that may be good in the short term, but
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not in the long term. So you will need to provide
7:15
constructive dissent when necessary. You have
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to find that balance of how do I say no to the
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CEO? How do I counter something they may want
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to do? How do I negotiate? How do I get alignment
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with the CEO knowing that I have the financial
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responsibility in my role to set the tone for
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risk, to protect the business from itself, to
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help people see the blind spots, things they
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may not be considering when it comes to strategic
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finance. And that's hard. And it also places
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CFOs in a very, very vulnerable place. I've seen
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a lot of CFOs who had to quit, who were terminated
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because they said no, they stood up for themselves.
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That's when controllers, I would say, have an
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advantage over CFOs in that because I realized
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that a lot of companies will let go of the CFO
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easier than they would do of their controllers.
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That's why you can see a lot of controllers being
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at their role for five, 10 years, and yet they've
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been through like three, four, five CFOs. It's
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a tough place to be, and that's something that
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we all need to be aware of. That's why you have
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to master the art of saying no without alienating
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people. Because you often be the gatekeeper of
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the company's resources. You have to know how
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to decline funding requests without shutting
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down innovation. without damaging your relationships.
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That's a tough balancing act that you will face
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in the role. It's a tough spot. I actually published
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a post on LinkedIn, I think a couple months ago
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now, where I was talking about the decrease in
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tenure of CFOs. So CFOs were staying fewer years
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at the organizations and that number keeps going
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down. So a lot of people were like, oh, they're
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just looking for new opportunities. But a lot
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of it in the comments and DMs I received were
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disagreements with other people in the C -suite
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and the CEO especially. So how are you able to
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negotiate and strike win -win deals will be key
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in this role. You have to get comfortable negotiating
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and saying no. Sometimes you don't need to say
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the word no. Okay. There are other ways that
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you can say no. without saying no. If that's
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something that you're not comfortable with, I'll
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share a few tips. For example, you can offer
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a compromise. So let's say the situation is with
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limited time and bandwidth, we cannot make everything
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happen. Okay. So let's say you stretched. You
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can say, Hey, I can do X, but it will mean that
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this priority I'm working on will be delayed.
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Okay. So that could work with even your boss.
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with everyday things. So you're not saying no,
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you're just saying that if I do this, I won't
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be able to do that. Or you can offer an alternative.
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And you can say, hey, I know you asked for X,
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Y, Z, but if the main goal is X, there is this
10:32
ABC document that can work. Like what is something
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else that could be an alternative? Again, you're
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not saying no, using the word no, but you're
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just saying, I know you want this, but here's
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another thing that could work. Or you can just
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recalculate the run and say, oh, you asked me
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this, but I think Susie in this department may
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be better able to help. So I'm not telling you
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no, I'm just helping you out. Or you can just
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act like a coach. Somebody comes and you're like,
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okay, you should have the answer. And you'd be
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like, hey, I can help you do this. So you don't
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need me in the future. And so you're not saying
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no, but you're saying no using other ways. And
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to me, this part three. about the fact that you
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cannot be a yes person and thrive is very personal.
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It's very personal because in my career, I've
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seen so many people being so intense at work,
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working crazy hours and going through a divorce
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because they were spending too much time at work.
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I've seen people unfortunately pass away for
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not taking care of their physical health and
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saying yes to a increasing workload, taking on,
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taking on, taking on. At the end of last year,
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I lost a member of my community to brain aneurysm.
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He passed away. He was working crazy hours and
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he passed away. He left a wife and two kids under
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five. So to me, knowing how to say no is not
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just to be successful at work. It's a matter
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of life and death. Whenever you're in a situation
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where you feel like, oh, I have to say yes, I
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have to say yes, otherwise I'm losing my job,
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you have to be mindful. You have to at least
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give yourself a deadline. For example, if you
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work in accounting, it would be yes during month
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-end. Month -end is crazy, it's maybe a week
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or two during the month, but then after, you
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should have normal hours. It could be yes, I'm
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going to be staying very late during the budget.
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It happens once a year, maybe around the forecast.
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But then afterwards, I'm going to work normal
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hours. What are you saying yes to? How are you
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saying yes to it? And how are you comfortable
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saying no? Now, I get a lot of people saying,
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oh, Wasiyah, but that's you. You're so great.
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You have all these errors behind your name. You
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can say no, and you'll be fine. Uh -uh, baby.
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No, boo. No, I struggle too with saying no sometimes,
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right? Depending on the circumstance, you don't
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want to disappoint. But I have to remind myself,
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I have to remember those extreme example, yes,
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granted, extreme example of how not saying no
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can be very damaging to your life, to your personal
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life. So what do you do? What should you do?
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Work on career insurance. You should be thinking
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and be intentional about building your career
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insurance. That's a term that April Little, if
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you don't follow her on LinkedIn, you should
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absolutely. She's an executive coach. Amazing,
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amazing, brilliant person. Career insurance.
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That's what you need. When you know that you
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will say no, need to say no, and that may put
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you in a bad spot, like literally losing your
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job. Okay, because like I said, a lot of companies
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are more comfortable letting go of their CFOs
14:17
and their controller and other positions. So
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you are in this spot, you are in a tough spot
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and you're like, oh, I may have to say no. How
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do you develop what I call career insurance?
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Because you need career insurance. Okay. I saw
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an article about PWC and how they were going
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to let go of about, I think over 1700 people
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last year Accenture globally let go of 19 ,000
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consultants, 19 ,000 KPMG, Deloitte, Ernst &
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Young, they all laid off people. When you're
14:52
in accounting and finance, you realize these
14:54
companies are like your dream companies when
14:56
you are in college. They're like, ooh, you have
14:59
this, your career is insured, you'll be fine.
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And now we're seeing them lay off. While you
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were working so hard, crazy hours, saying yes
15:09
to everything, well, I hope you built career
15:13
insurance. Now. What is career insurance? Sure
15:17
you wonder, and I'm glad you ask. One thing,
15:21
for example, of career insurance is personal
15:24
development. What are you doing to improve your
15:27
skills? Thank you for tuning in and listening,
15:30
and I'm sure you're learning some things. But
15:33
what else are you doing to increase your knowledge
15:36
and be better at your craft? Because you'll realize
15:40
that the better you are, the more options you'll
15:42
create for you. And so when you're in a situation
15:46
where you need to say no and it may cost you
15:48
your job, you will feel more comfortable because
15:52
you've been keeping yourself updated. Likewise,
15:55
the second tip I have for you is networking.
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Yes, networking. You should try to meet a different
16:01
person every week that's in your field or outside
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of your field because you want to build your
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network before you need it. You can create your
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own community, right? So I have my own... finance
16:13
sisterhood. I'm also connecting with other female
16:16
CFOs. You need to be able to say, okay, if I'm
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confronted with a very difficult situation, like
16:24
fraud, you don't want to be in trouble if something
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goes wrong and you have to walk out. What is
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your career insurance? What are you going to
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do? Of course, we all have bills to pay, a lifestyle
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that we want to keep. So what are you doing?
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Because As I said earlier, layoffs are happening
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everywhere, at every company. It's not like back
16:46
in the, what, 80s, 70s, people were thinking
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twice before firing people. Just to meet a quarter
16:53
result, they'll let go. You may say, oh, Wassia,
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that's very pessimistic. How do you know that?
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Well, the news, but also because I, in my career,
17:05
was involved twice in... let's say expense optimization
17:11
exercise that ended up with having to let go
17:17
of people. That was so hard. That was so hard
17:22
for me on a personal level. I remember crying.
17:25
I remember staying up at night because it was
17:28
very tough. There was a number to me. I was helping.
17:33
the business make those stop decisions and trying
17:37
to manage to a certain number. Not that I'm proud
17:41
of that moment, but it's just a reality when
17:43
you're a finance leader, sometimes you have to
17:45
make those stop decisions. And sometimes somebody
17:47
else is making those stop decisions about you.
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So as a person, as a professional, what's your
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career insurance? So yes, I talked about how
17:57
you have to keep improving yourself, how to have
18:00
a strong network. But also to me, third, we'll
18:03
always come back to having a good personal brand,
18:08
having people knowing you and wanting to work
18:11
with you. It's also important. Now, beyond personal
18:14
branding is what I call strategic influence.
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Strategic influence is that intersection between
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strategic ability and influence. I have a leadership
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assessment on it. If you go on my website, awasiakaman
18:29
.com, it's a free assessment. Please take it
18:32
so I can register into the research I'm doing
18:34
regarding it. But what I'm finding out is that
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the people and teams who succeed have strategic
18:40
influence because they're able to see the bigger
18:44
picture and people trust them and are able to
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influence the decision positively. Back to the
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idea of you have to say no. If you have strategic
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influence, if people know your strategic ability,
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and if your personal brand is strong, you have
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great relationship with them, and you have influence
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over the decisions, influence to move them toward
19:08
what you are advocating for, then you saying
19:12
no will not impact your work in a negative way.
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It will just be another day. You won't have to
19:20
be thinking, oh, I will probably lose my job
19:23
after I say this. Uh -uh. So having strategic
19:26
influence beyond just working with a personal
19:29
brand is something that will really place you
19:32
into a safer place and into a place of really
19:35
power. Let's think about a finance team in general,
19:39
right? So you have finance teams that are strong.
19:43
Okay. They have the right people. They have the
19:46
right systems. They have the right processes.
19:50
I mean, the team is on fire. They have strength.
19:53
But what if they don't have influence? It means
19:57
that they will come up with great insight. You,
20:00
the CFO, the finance lawyer will come up with
20:02
great insight and say, Hey, my team or my analysis
20:06
shows that here is what we need to do. If you
20:08
have no influence, that great insight or information
20:12
will fall on deaf ears. Nobody will listen to
20:15
it. They'll move on with their life because you
20:17
don't have strategic influence, because you're
20:20
not aligning yourself with the power players,
20:22
because you haven't built a brand and a reputation
20:27
of being strategic, of being someone that can
20:29
be trusted, of being someone that people want
20:32
to work with. You haven't built your strategic
20:34
influence. And so even though you're strong,
20:37
you know how to do your work. Your team is strong.
20:40
If you're not conscious, about your need for
20:43
strategic influence, all that you will say will
20:46
not matter. I have a very long article on my
20:49
website about strategic influence, so I invite
20:51
you to check it out. But that's really what you
20:55
need as career insurance when we think about
20:59
saying no. Because sometimes saying no is uncomfortable.
21:02
I'm not going to say that, oh, it's so easy for
21:05
me to say no. Sometimes I struggle. Even with
21:07
my friends, I struggle. I'm like, yeah, I want
21:09
to come to this party. And then I'm like, ooh,
21:10
I have this engagement I can go to. When you
21:13
want to be comfortable saying no, yes, I shared
21:16
a lot of things about how you can say no without
21:20
saying no, how you need to improve your negotiation
21:25
skills, right? And creating win -win agreement,
21:28
win -win situation. To me, you also need career
21:33
insurance. We all need right now with AI and
21:36
layoffs left and right. We all need to be thinking
21:40
about career insurance. Whether it's you learning
21:46
more, developing yourself, attending conference,
21:49
you networking, getting out of your zone of working.
21:53
I don't know how many hours a week that you'd
21:55
never have time to network. Stop that. Okay.
21:59
Sunday night, you can just go on LinkedIn and
22:01
connect with five people. And somebody will be
22:03
willing to have a virtual coffee chat with you.
22:06
Bam. you connect with somebody else. Okay. And
22:08
you don't have to do it based on their title
22:10
now, whatever, but I do encourage you be out
22:14
there, build your personal brand. Yes. But also
22:17
think about strategic influence, build work on
22:21
your strategic influence, both inside and outside
22:24
of your company. So that when you're in this
22:26
situation where you need to say no, you have
22:30
options. You have career insurance. Because saying
22:35
no is really part of the job. It's really part
22:37
of the job. It's hard to say that you're going
22:39
to be the person setting the tone for risk. And
22:43
every time somebody comes to you, you just say
22:47
yes. If you do your analysis, you have an understanding
22:51
and you realize that it's not in line, you will
22:53
have to say no. If you have a budget that you
22:56
need to stick to because otherwise you may have
22:59
cash flow problems, you will have to say no.
23:03
Otherwise, you wouldn't be doing your job. Now,
23:06
how you say it, how you're able to negotiate
23:10
is what will really make a difference for you.
23:13
So definitely strengthen your negotiation skills.
23:17
Again, we're in finance and accounting background,
23:20
and as we went through college, it was all about
23:24
technical, technical, technical skills. That's
23:28
what we learned in school. That's what we did
23:31
a lot of, and now we realize that the higher
23:34
we go in our hierarchy, the more we need those
23:37
soft skills. To some extent, it's like, oh, it's
23:40
not fair, right? Because we're like, oh, I like
23:43
to say, can I get my money back? Because I didn't
23:46
feel prepared for some of that, but we just have
23:48
to be mindful and find leadership programs that
23:52
are specifically addressing the finance -specific
23:56
leadership challenges, because... Unlike our
23:59
peers in HR, sales, and marketing, we in finance
24:04
and accounting are usually promoted for our technical
24:08
expertise. So when we are transitioning from
24:12
an individual contributor to being a leader,
24:15
we have to know how to manage people. Yes, but
24:19
there is a lot of other shift that we have to
24:22
do in our ways. We have to shift from focusing
24:26
on being in compliance to having influence. We
24:30
have to shift from being in the details to be
24:33
talking strategy. We have to shift from being
24:36
in the numbers to how we craft narratives and
24:40
storytelling, how we avoid finance jargon and
24:44
all that while we're doing a lot of decision
24:47
making with incomplete information and under
24:51
pressure. And that's a lot. That's a lot of as
24:54
finance leader and we're not always prepared
24:57
for it. And that's why I hope this podcast will
24:59
shed the light on a lot of other things that
25:03
we need to be aware of to thrive as finance and
25:08
accounting leaders, as business leaders, and
25:10
also as individual because behind the titles
25:15
are people, we human beings. And so we need to
25:19
be able to say no. to protect our mental health,
25:22
our professional lives, but also do great at
25:24
work in the responsibilities that we have to
25:27
carry. That's it for today. Thank you so much
25:31
for tuning in. Again, this was part three of
25:35
what they don't tell you about becoming a CFO.
25:40
If there's any other topics you would like me
25:42
to cover in the future, as I like to say, don't
25:45
hesitate to DM me on LinkedIn or email me at
25:48
ask. at TheDiaryOfACFO .com. Coming up next are
25:53
episodes that I did with special guests. We'll
25:56
cover things like how you work better with marketing
25:58
and other functions, how you plan your 90 days,
26:01
what are some of the things that you should be
26:03
thinking about as you step into a new CFO role.
26:06
I cannot wait for you to listen to those episodes.
26:09
So keep spreading the word. Don't forget to subscribe
26:12
and review as we are trying to make better leaders
26:15
and help leaders be better at life with these
26:17
podcasts. Thank you.