Latest / Karl and Crew / Rejecting Counterfeit Masculinity with Seth Troutt & Biochemistry, Chivalry, and the Image of God with Dr. Fuzz Rana

Transcript

Rejecting Counterfeit Masculinity with Seth Troutt & Biochemistry, Chivalry, and the Image of God with Dr. Fuzz Rana · Karl and Crew

• 0:00
  S1: Broadcasting from Chicago, across North America and beyond. It's Carl
• 0:05
  S1: and crew.
• 0:06
  S2: Come as you are an experienced guide, overcome what seems
• 0:11
  S2: impossible and live as you never imagined.
• 0:14
  S1: Start your morning with a laugh.
• 0:16
  S2: Cold spaghetti is great. Okay.
• 0:19
  S3: Okay, I disagree, I guess. No, no, certainly it is not. No. Okay. Well, man,
• 0:26
  S3: I'm going back.
• 0:26
  S2: To my bachelor days. I guess I thought cold spaghetti
• 0:29
  S2: was universally loved.
• 0:31
  S4: I've never been known for, like, high levels of coordination.
• 0:34
  S4: That's just. It feels like.
• 0:37
  S2: I've never been known for high levels of coordination.
• 0:42
  S1: Delivering the truth daily.
• 0:44
  S4: If it were possible to have every worldly gain available
• 0:48
  S4: and you're forfeiting your soul. There's no amount of gain
• 0:52
  S4: that would make it worth it.
• 0:53
  S5: Our own way never ever works. Because it's apart from
• 0:56
  S5: the life source, which is God.
• 0:59
  S6: For me, growing up, love was always conditional and can
• 1:02
  S6: be taken from you. Christ's love can't. And he went
• 1:06
  S6: to the cross with my mind and my heart that night.
• 1:10
  S1: Now from the call of Hope Studios, this is Carl
• 1:15
  S1: and crew.
• 1:15
  S2: It's easy to find problems inside the church. I think
• 1:19
  S2: it's way more challenging to champion the stuff that's going right.
• 1:23
  S2: Isn't that fair?
• 1:25
  S4: Way easier to champion what's going right or what's going wrong.
• 1:27
  S2: It's more difficult to champion what's going right.
• 1:30
  S4: Oh, absolutely.
• 1:31
  S2: It's way easier to find the blemishes and the problems
• 1:36
  S2: and all that. And there's plenty of those guys. There's plenty.
• 1:39
  S3: Of those.
• 1:39
  S5: I mean, it's it's interesting. You know, people some people
• 1:44
  S5: get together and they become good friends based off of
• 1:47
  S5: what they hate rather more than what they like.
• 1:49
  S2: It's a common enemy thing.
• 1:51
  S5: I was gonna say it is common enemy. And, and
• 1:54
  S5: so I don't think that we as Christians because we
• 1:56
  S5: are broken people still, uh, that we're immune to that.
• 1:59
  S5: It is. It is an intentional thing and very hard
• 2:02
  S5: to do sometimes to not get together on complaining about things,
• 2:06
  S5: especially the bride of Christ.
• 2:08
  S2: Yeah, yeah. It can be tough. It can be tough.
• 2:11
  S4: Did you hear something? Did you.
• 2:12
  S3: Hear.
• 2:13
  S2: It? I was reading something. Yeah, I was reading something
• 2:16
  S2: out of first Corinthians. Second Corinthians.
• 2:18
  S4: Hey, that's where I've been to.
• 2:20
  S2: Really?
• 2:20
  S4: Yeah.
• 2:22
  S2: Yeah, it's it's interesting. If you look at the church
• 2:24
  S2: of Corinth, it's no wonder that in Second Corinthians, the
• 2:29
  S2: second letter, Paul says, examine yourself to see if you're
• 2:32
  S2: even in the faith. And that that wasn't like a
• 2:35
  S2: casual thing. In fact, theologians agree. He wasn't saying, just
• 2:40
  S2: see if you got your theology straight. He's he's asking
• 2:43
  S2: the question. You guys got to see if you're even
• 2:45
  S2: in Christ Jesus. Mhm. Which is a big deal. And
• 2:50
  S2: if you just do a quick perusal of first Corinthians,
• 2:53
  S2: second Corinthians, you can find so much that is crazy
• 2:58
  S2: going on in the church. And hey, it's in the
• 3:01
  S2: word man. I think it's first Corinthians seven. I think
• 3:03
  S2: it's there. Uh, but I mean, Paul says there's rumors
• 3:08
  S2: that some of you men are taking your fathers wives,
• 3:15
  S2: and it's like, what in the world is going on here?
• 3:19
  S2: And he said, rumors are floating around. And Paul was
• 3:22
  S2: in a big one on rumors. But sometimes rumors you
• 3:25
  S2: got to go after and go, hey, is there any
• 3:27
  S2: truth to this?
• 3:28
  S4: Is this actually happening?
• 3:29
  S5: Just speak.
• 3:29
  S3: It.
• 3:30
  S2: Is this going on here? And you can look at
• 3:34
  S2: the problems in Corinth and you go, oh my goodness.
• 3:37
  S2: I mean, there were abuses of the Holy Spirit. There
• 3:40
  S2: was communion was crazy. There's guys getting in little groups
• 3:45
  S2: because communion really was part of the love feast where
• 3:49
  S2: you came together and you ate meals together. But they
• 3:52
  S2: were having groups were eaten aside from other people. So
• 3:56
  S2: there was all kinds of little spats going on, and
• 3:59
  S2: there were some people were drinking a little bit too
• 4:02
  S2: much communion wine, and they were getting pounded, trivial lawsuits,
• 4:07
  S2: trivial lawsuits galore. And they I mean, they had favored apostles,
• 4:14
  S2: the favorite preachers. And Paul wasn't high on the list.
• 4:20
  S5: I mean, when you come in with this much conviction,
• 4:23
  S5: it's hard to be high on the list.
• 4:26
  S2: You know, that's an interesting thing that you just said.
• 4:29
  S5: I never really thought about it until it just came
• 4:31
  S5: out of my mouth right there. But yeah.
• 4:34
  S2: So what do you mean by that?
• 4:35
  S5: Well, I think it's sometimes people mistake conviction for judgment,
• 4:41
  S5: you know? Yeah. Well, you got to be careful that
• 4:43
  S5: you're judging me too much. And it's like, okay, well, let's,
• 4:47
  S5: let's be careful about that sentence because yes, of course,
• 4:51
  S5: we can't just be walking around judging people, being not
• 4:55
  S5: looking at ourselves, not carrying that around for ourselves, but
• 4:58
  S5: doing it for other people. That's a problem. But conviction
• 5:01
  S5: of the Holy Spirit is a beautiful thing. And sometimes
• 5:04
  S5: people get rubbed a little too much the wrong way.
• 5:07
  S5: When someone comes in and brings conviction on them, I'll
• 5:10
  S5: say it for myself. I struggle with being a defensive
• 5:13
  S5: person and I recognize it. But my first thing a
• 5:18
  S5: lot of the time, even with conviction, is to go, oh,
• 5:22
  S5: I don't like how you said that.
• 5:23
  S2: I know that same language.
• 5:25
  S3: Yeah. Right. Right.
• 5:26
  S2: I know that same language. I think I think first blush.
• 5:31
  S2: So if my bride brings something to me, my first
• 5:34
  S2: blush is not. Oh, yeah, bring it in. Yeah. That's great.
• 5:39
  S2: I think first blush is a little bit of chafing.
• 5:42
  S3: Sure.
• 5:43
  S2: God's really grown me up in this area. When I
• 5:45
  S2: was a newlywed, it was like, ooh, boy, don't bring
• 5:49
  S2: anything to me. That was embarrassing days. But, you know,
• 5:55
  S2: if you if you could learn the art of listen,
• 5:58
  S2: sort through it, own what you can own, boy, that
• 6:03
  S2: can really help you in your spiritual trajectory.
• 6:05
  S3: Yeah.
• 6:06
  S2: Because the other one doesn't work real well. Now, I
• 6:08
  S2: know Ali's got this figured out.
• 6:09
  S3: Yeah. She does.
• 6:10
  S4: Yeah. No, I mean, that's our human flesh nature. Yeah.
• 6:14
  S4: Gets pricked easily when we feel like we are being
• 6:18
  S4: criticized or there's we get offended and then we get defensive.
• 6:23
  S4: And then it's like, how could you how could you
• 6:25
  S4: say that about me? And then we want to flip
• 6:27
  S4: it around and make it about what? About you. You're
• 6:30
  S4: you're not so great yourself. You think you're perfection personified, right?
• 6:35
  S3: Yeah.
• 6:35
  S2: That's why Paul really ticked off the church of Corinth.
• 6:39
  S2: I'm sure of it. Mhm. You know, it's it's it's interesting.
• 6:42
  S2: So you look at the problems in the church, but
• 6:46
  S2: Paul's solution is almost funnier than the problem. When was
• 6:51
  S2: the last time somebody told you to man up, Ali?
• 6:54
  S3: Um.
• 6:55
  S2: Well, ever. Have you ever been told to man up?
• 6:59
  S4: Not in so many words. I mean, I can think of, like, time.
• 7:03
  S4: I mean, you know, in sports, I can think of coaches.
• 7:05
  S4: You know, it's kind of like the, the toughen up,
• 7:07
  S4: like get out there and get it done. I mean,
• 7:09
  S4: it's so kind of, I guess, but never man up.
• 7:13
  S2: Yeah. That's what Paul says to the church of Corinth.
• 7:16
  S2: And I know this is going to be shocking to
• 7:18
  S2: you because some of you have thought, oh, that can't
• 7:20
  S2: he must just be speaking to men there. I mean,
• 7:23
  S2: the tail end of first Corinthians chapter 16, verse 13.
• 7:27
  S2: Be watchful. Stand firm in the faith. Act like men.
• 7:34
  S2: I'm going to explain this in a moment, because some
• 7:35
  S2: of you are like, oh man, I don't know if
• 7:37
  S2: I can listen to Paul either. Act like men. Be strong.
• 7:41
  S2: Let all that you do be done in love. I've
• 7:45
  S2: seen men's ministries that love to grab this act like men,
• 7:48
  S2: and all of a sudden it turns into, yeah, it's
• 7:52
  S2: kind of the grunt and spit and chest forward kind
• 7:55
  S2: of thing, shoulders back. And I love that. It's good
• 7:57
  S2: to have good posture, but that's not what's being spoken
• 8:00
  S2: of here. As a matter of fact, this is his
• 8:02
  S2: roundhouse conclusion in this letter to all these problems. And
• 8:07
  S2: I did a deep dive on this word. And this
• 8:09
  S2: word does not mean act like men in the sense
• 8:13
  S2: that it's addressing men only. Paul is taking a great
• 8:18
  S2: aspect of biblical manhood, and he's saying all of us,
• 8:22
  S2: and the aspect that he's saying is need to be
• 8:25
  S2: strong against these things that I've been writing to you.
• 8:28
  S2: And I'm fascinated that he tells men and women alike
• 8:32
  S2: in this letter to act like men. Isn't that something.
• 8:36
  S3: That is this.
• 8:36
  S4: Is this a you know, because sometimes when there's the
• 8:39
  S4: use of the word men in Scripture, people will say, well,
• 8:43
  S4: this is kind of mankind here. This is. No. And
• 8:46
  S4: this is this is like a gender.
• 8:48
  S3: This is male.
• 8:49
  S4: This is gendered language.
• 8:50
  S2: I guess it's gendered language, but it's not dismissing women.
• 8:55
  S2: It's actually it's actually presuming something that's pretty picking egalitarian here.
• 9:01
  S3: Mhm.
• 9:02
  S2: Which is pretty amazing.
• 9:03
  S3: Mhm.
• 9:04
  S2: He's saying, let's go church. Let's step up here. Let's
• 9:09
  S2: get strong. But the caveat that we've got to remember here,
• 9:13
  S2: and it harkens back to first Corinthians chapter 13, just
• 9:16
  S2: three chapters before this. Let all that you do be
• 9:21
  S2: done in love. So if you see, act like men,
• 9:25
  S2: be strong, but all you do be done in love.
• 9:27
  S2: It's a call to the church to stand up against
• 9:31
  S2: this moral slippery slope that it was so inculcated with.
• 9:36
  S2: And it's a it's a fascinating verse. It really is.
• 9:41
  S2: We're going to be talking chivalry all week long. It's
• 9:44
  S2: kind of a Middle Ages term. It has to do
• 9:47
  S2: with honor and respect. It has to do with war.
• 9:50
  S2: But it really has a lot to do with men
• 9:52
  S2: treating women respectfully. Isn't that cool, Alex? I love that,
• 9:56
  S2: don't you?
• 9:56
  S4: I mean, I love chivalry, I mean, and women. We
• 10:01
  S4: love chivalrous men.
• 10:03
  S2: Yeah, it's true, isn't it?
• 10:05
  S4: It is.
• 10:07
  S2: And those aren't toxic men.
• 10:09
  S4: No, no.
• 10:11
  S2: They're usually characterized by love, aren't they, ally?
• 10:14
  S4: Men who treat women with respect, with honor, with care,
• 10:19
  S4: with concern.
• 10:20
  S3: Yeah.
• 10:21
  S2: It's really good. I'm going to be tackling tackling chivalry,
• 10:24
  S2: as we've already gotten into a full hour of this
• 10:27
  S2: this week. And I think the only thing I want
• 10:31
  S2: to say here is men, God has so much more
• 10:37
  S2: for you. It's going to be by the time we're
• 10:39
  S2: done this week, you're going to realize you're going to
• 10:43
  S2: hear it. Chivalry still gets style points in our world today.
• 10:47
  S2: Humble yourself under God's mighty hand. He's going to lift
• 10:50
  S2: you up today, man.
• 10:52
  S1: He was running from God, but God's love brought him home.
• 10:56
  S1: Carl is in the crew. It's Carl and crew on
• 11:00
  S1: Moody Radio.
• 11:01
  S2: Well, you know, worldview is a big deal. And oftentimes
• 11:06
  S2: minds are very impressionable. The discussion about when do you
• 11:11
  S2: send your kids off to, you know, the public school sphere? Right. Ali,
• 11:15
  S2: come on. You've been in those discussions.
• 11:17
  S4: Absolutely. I mean, education, what are you going to do
• 11:21
  S4: to educate your child? That is probably one of the
• 11:23
  S4: hottest topics in every mom face group that you'll find.
• 11:26
  S3: Really?
• 11:27
  S4: Oh, yeah. Especially when your kids are little man.
• 11:30
  S2: Coming up here, we got a man passionate about it.
• 11:32
  S2: Dear friend, former right hand man to Pastor Lutzer and
• 11:39
  S2: just a good brother in Christ. Hut, Herzberg. Coming up.
• 11:43
  S1: Take your next step with Jesus today. You're listening to
• 11:47
  S1: cast and crew.
• 11:49
  S2: Well, it's not often that we bring on a guest.
• 11:51
  S2: And boy, do I love this man. Dear friend. Love him. Hutz. Herzberg.
• 11:55
  S2: Tremendous guy. And you know, the initial thought was, well, look,
• 12:01
  S2: people around the United States are going to want to
• 12:04
  S2: know about this summit that's coming up. And here's the
• 12:07
  S2: crazy news. This thing's filled up huts. There's a hunger
• 12:11
  S2: out there for people to really guide, uh, students education
• 12:17
  S2: processes grounded in transcendent truth. Isn't there huts?
• 12:23
  S7: Well, absolutely. Carl. You know, right now there is such
• 12:26
  S7: a hunger for real education, Christ centered education. And unfortunately,
• 12:32
  S7: that's what we're all about. We're committed to Christ centered
• 12:35
  S7: biblical education that can transform lives, transformed families and transform
• 12:40
  S7: a culture. And that's what we're all about with the organization.
• 12:44
  S7: Turning point of education that I work with.
• 12:46
  S2: Yeah. If you don't know what's Hertzberg, I need you
• 12:48
  S2: to know something. 20 years, a chaplain and seven years
• 12:53
  S2: with Erwin Lutzer, pastor Lutzer. That would have been an
• 12:56
  S2: incredible journey. And then at Christian Heritage Academy, it's a
• 13:00
  S2: phenomenal Christian academy that was founded by Wayne Grudem a
• 13:05
  S2: number of years ago. And he was there seven years
• 13:07
  S2: as the president of that incredible academy. And now you
• 13:12
  S2: are with TPI Turning Point USA's education arm. Now, I
• 13:16
  S2: want to dispel some myths, because I think there's some
• 13:19
  S2: people that would look at TPI, USA education arm. And
• 13:24
  S2: I think a big misnomer is that somehow there's an
• 13:28
  S2: angry slant here. It's anything but that, isn't it? Huts.
• 13:32
  S7: Oh, there's no time for anger, Karl. There is so
• 13:35
  S7: much positive, so much good happening, so much opportunity that's
• 13:38
  S7: happening across the country from the macro level, right down
• 13:41
  S7: into communities. And there is a groundswell movement to recapture
• 13:46
  S7: the kind of education that our forefathers were educated by.
• 13:50
  S7: And that's classical Christian education. It's not the only form
• 13:53
  S7: of Christian education, of course, but yes, there's no anger here, Karl,
• 13:57
  S7: because there is so much good that is happening and
• 14:00
  S7: taking place. And by the way, you mentioned Pastor Erwin Lutzer,
• 14:03
  S7: our mutual great friend. Yes. He's actually going to be
• 14:06
  S7: speaking at our Educator Summit coming up this week. So
• 14:09
  S7: we're so excited to have Erwin there as well.
• 14:11
  S2: Yeah. That's thrilling. I mean, your slate of communicators is amazing.
• 14:14
  S2: George Barna I love it when we have him on here.
• 14:17
  S2: You've got Al Mohler, you got John Stonestreet, Megan Basham,
• 14:21
  S2: Riley Gaines and so many others. These are cups half
• 14:24
  S2: full kind of people. Let me just tag something here.
• 14:27
  S2: I haven't even spoken about this on air. Ben Sasse
• 14:31
  S2: is dying right now. And he said something recently that
• 14:36
  S2: I thought was profoundly insightful, and I didn't even know
• 14:40
  S2: the history of it. He said education, as we see
• 14:42
  S2: it today, was a warehousing response to needs that would
• 14:50
  S2: actually move people away from connectivity to the Catholic Church,
• 14:54
  S2: he said. It was born out of that, and he's
• 14:58
  S2: not a big fan of current education system. How in
• 15:02
  S2: the world do you impact something that isn't really striking
• 15:08
  S2: gold with a lot of kids today?
• 15:11
  S7: That's the big question. And, you know, for so long
• 15:13
  S7: that seemed like an insurmountable answer. That is just it's
• 15:17
  S7: just too big. We can't make a difference. But, you know,
• 15:19
  S7: we are finding and we're by by no means the
• 15:22
  S7: only organization or the only group that is really trying
• 15:25
  S7: to make a dent in this. But we are finding
• 15:29
  S7: that parents themselves are beginning to wake up and realize
• 15:32
  S7: that first and foremost, it's their God given responsibility to
• 15:36
  S7: take responsibility for the education of their children. It's not
• 15:39
  S7: something that they are to offload and they of course,
• 15:42
  S7: no one would say it that way, but to offload
• 15:43
  S7: their children to a third party entity entity where they
• 15:47
  S7: don't know the teachers, they don't know the curriculum, they
• 15:50
  S7: don't know the books that they're reading, and they're just
• 15:53
  S7: trusting that somehow they're getting a good education. But finally,
• 15:56
  S7: for all kinds of, I think, good reasons, parents are
• 15:58
  S7: beginning to wake up and realize, oh, wait, this may
• 16:01
  S7: not be the kind of education that I want for
• 16:03
  S7: my child. Oh, wait, you know what? There are some
• 16:06
  S7: alternatives out there now. There's some resources. Now maybe I
• 16:09
  S7: can be more involved in the education of my child. Yeah,
• 16:11
  S7: we believe that's a God given responsibility gives to every parent.
• 16:15
  S2: You know, Josh McDowell said. And this has been probably
• 16:18
  S2: a decade ago. I was with him at an event
• 16:20
  S2: and he reached over. We were having dinner side by side,
• 16:23
  S2: and he said, you know what, Carl? When I started
• 16:26
  S2: in this ministry, I wanted to reach kids at the
• 16:29
  S2: collegiate level. And then he said, I noticed that then
• 16:32
  S2: we needed to really reach him at the high school
• 16:34
  S2: level and then the middle school level. And now, he
• 16:38
  S2: said indoctrination in a worldview is happening at an elementary
• 16:42
  S2: school level. But he's not far off, is he? Huts?
• 16:46
  S7: He's 100% correct. And I'll give you a couple of
• 16:49
  S7: real wonderful, poignant underscores to that. So Charlie Kirk, founder
• 16:54
  S7: of Turning Point USA, many of your listeners, of course,
• 16:56
  S7: know that name. Now, if they didn't before, they know
• 16:59
  S7: after September 10th, Charlie's first day, 14 years ago was
• 17:03
  S7: on a college campus. The last second of his life
• 17:05
  S7: was on a college campus. But Charlie began to see
• 17:08
  S7: something that the indoctrination of students was taking place long
• 17:14
  S7: before they got to college. It's taking place just as
• 17:17
  S7: you said, high school, middle school. And we would argue
• 17:19
  S7: and agree with Josh McDowell that it's actually happening at
• 17:22
  S7: the elementary primary school level. And so that was part
• 17:26
  S7: of the impetus that started this newest division that I
• 17:30
  S7: have the privilege of leading called Turning Point Education. It's
• 17:33
  S7: our K through 13 education division of Turning Point USA.
• 17:36
  S7: We need to start earlier. And that's exactly what we're
• 17:39
  S7: trying to do.
• 17:40
  S3: Yeah.
• 17:41
  S2: Yeah. This is so good. My guest right now, he
• 17:44
  S2: is TPUSA chief education officer. What are the big planks
• 17:50
  S2: that are going to turn this thing around for kids
• 17:53
  S2: to really love them? Well, what are some of the
• 17:55
  S2: big planks?
• 17:57
  S7: Well, I can tell you some of the big planks
• 17:58
  S7: that we're doing. And this one is our first and
• 18:01
  S7: foremost initiative and priority. Carl. And it's very exciting. We
• 18:06
  S7: want to provide an alternative to the woke ideologies that
• 18:10
  S7: we've been talking about here for the last few minutes
• 18:12
  S7: that are happening primarily in public government schools, but not
• 18:16
  S7: entirely private schools, even in some Christian schools across the country.
• 18:20
  S7: But we want to provide an alternative to that. So
• 18:22
  S7: we are partnering with a couple of wonderful organizations, and
• 18:27
  S7: our vision or our goal is in the next ten
• 18:30
  S7: years that we start 5000 Christian classical schools across the country.
• 18:36
  S7: And so we've got things moving in place to be
• 18:38
  S7: able to do that. We need to provide affordable alternatives
• 18:42
  S7: for families. And that's the key. Many families see that
• 18:46
  S7: there's a need, but they feel like, well, this is
• 18:48
  S7: out of reach because of cost and price. Well, there's
• 18:51
  S7: a lot of things that are happening in the world
• 18:53
  S7: of education. Beginning in 2027, every family in the United
• 18:57
  S7: States has available to them a dollar for dollar tax credit.
• 19:00
  S7: $1,700 that can be applied to the education of their children.
• 19:04
  S7: Many people are not even aware of this. But beyond that, Karl,
• 19:07
  S7: we want to make it affordable. We want to make
• 19:10
  S7: it practical, but we also want to make it excellent.
• 19:13
  S7: And we haven't even begun to talk about the home
• 19:15
  S7: schooling movement, which is just exploding.
• 19:18
  S2: Yeah, it's a movement, guys. And I want you to
• 19:20
  S2: be a part of it. Some tough news. The summit
• 19:23
  S2: is so popular it's jammed. You could get your name
• 19:25
  S2: on a wait list. Here's what I want you to do.
• 19:28
  S2: We're going to embed two links in one here. One
• 19:30
  S2: is you can get your name on a wait list
• 19:32
  S2: and possibly get a call up to get to this summit.
• 19:36
  S2: It's a big educator summit with some great, great keynote speakers.
• 19:41
  S2: But also we can get you pointed to a site
• 19:45
  S2: that is going to get you resources and content in
• 19:48
  S2: some of these planks of education of children, teens, and
• 19:53
  S2: even adults in a way that you've maybe never been
• 19:56
  S2: armed before. Text the word summit to 805 557898. Text
• 20:04
  S2: the word summit to 805 557898.
• 20:11
  S1: Your spiritual pit stop to keep you going in the race.
• 20:14
  S1: You're listening to Carl and crew.
• 20:17
  S2: It's not often that we have the privilege of having
• 20:20
  S2: a PhD in biochemistry with us. Who has a Christian worldview.
• 20:25
  S5: Amen.
• 20:26
  S2: But we got one right now. Doctor Faisal Rana, or
• 20:30
  S2: Doctor Fuzz, as he's lovingly known, is with us right now. Um,
• 20:36
  S2: my man, why in the world did you leave a
• 20:39
  S2: fortune 500 company to join a ministry?
• 20:43
  S8: Well, you know, when I realized how powerful the scientific
• 20:46
  S8: evidence is for God's existence and the reliability of Scripture,
• 20:51
  S8: to me, it was like, there's nothing more important that
• 20:54
  S8: I could do with my training as a biochemist than
• 20:57
  S8: to communicate that powerful evidence to not only people in
• 21:01
  S8: the church, but also for people outside the church who
• 21:04
  S8: think there's no reason that Christianity could possibly be true.
• 21:09
  S8: And so I could always find a job doing this.
• 21:13
  S3: Yeah. You could.
• 21:14
  S8: Well, with my science degree, but the opportunity to serve
• 21:18
  S8: the Lord as a biochemist and again, communicating the powerful
• 21:23
  S8: evidence for the Christian faith was such a unique one
• 21:26
  S8: time opportunity that I thought, I'm going to go for
• 21:29
  S8: it big time because what a way to serve the Lord.
• 21:32
  S2: Yeah, I love it. I'm so grateful for people that,
• 21:36
  S2: and you might be one of those that is in
• 21:38
  S2: a company that's thriving, but the call of God can
• 21:42
  S2: still transcend even that momentum in the marketplace and call
• 21:45
  S2: you into ministry. And we're all in ministry. That's the
• 21:48
  S2: beauty of it. But sometimes you have to focus, as
• 21:51
  S2: Doctor Fuzz has. You're with reasons to believe. So what's
• 21:55
  S2: the most recent aha moment you've had in another reason
• 21:59
  S2: to believe you're in constant discovery mode. Give us a
• 22:03
  S2: fresh one.
• 22:04
  S8: Yeah. One of the things that is real interesting to
• 22:06
  S8: me is this claim that many scientists make that the
• 22:11
  S8: genetic makeup of human beings, this is called our genome,
• 22:15
  S8: is riddled with junk DNA sequences that have no function.
• 22:20
  S8: And yet what we're seeing is discovery after discovery after discovery,
• 22:25
  S8: where what we thought was junk turns out to be
• 22:28
  S8: critical to the survival of human beings, it plays a
• 22:31
  S8: critical functional role. And this is exactly what we predicted
• 22:36
  S8: at Reasons to Believe 25 years ago, when none of
• 22:39
  S8: these discoveries were known. And what we've seen over the
• 22:42
  S8: last two and a half decades is this mounting evidence
• 22:46
  S8: that really reflects an incredible design of human beings, even
• 22:51
  S8: at our most basic level, inside the cell, in the
• 22:54
  S8: interior operations of the cell. It just screams of design. And,
• 22:58
  S8: and this is an example where people who hold to
• 23:01
  S8: a design or a creation perspective were right about the
• 23:05
  S8: nature of genomes. And the people that view life in
• 23:10
  S8: materialistic terms were completely wrong.
• 23:13
  S3: Yeah.
• 23:13
  S2: You know, at a very basic level, I remember back.
• 23:16
  S2: I'm old enough to remember when an appendix was kind
• 23:21
  S2: of like, ah, you know, doctors kind of reconciled that
• 23:24
  S2: that was kind of a throwaway little device that we
• 23:27
  S2: had in our body. But it's far from that, even
• 23:30
  S2: at that simple level, isn't it, Doctor Fuzz?
• 23:32
  S8: Oh yeah. I mean, that's again, one of the revolutions
• 23:35
  S8: that's happening is what we thought was this useless vestige
• 23:39
  S8: of evolution. It turns out to be critical in terms
• 23:43
  S8: of promoting the health of our digestive system. And in fact,
• 23:47
  S8: there are some evidence that I don't know how conclusive
• 23:50
  S8: it is, but there's some evidence that seems to indicate
• 23:53
  S8: that when people have their appendix removed and when you
• 23:56
  S8: have to have it removed, you have to have.
• 23:58
  S3: You have to have it removed.
• 23:59
  S8: Right? But when people do have appendix removed, it actually
• 24:03
  S8: sets them up to being much more susceptible to things
• 24:07
  S8: like colitis and other diseases of the colon.
• 24:10
  S2: You know, again, though, this is what's amazing. God in
• 24:13
  S2: his divine providence and his mastery of creation has even
• 24:19
  S2: done workarounds. We find stories of. At a biochemist level.
• 24:24
  S2: You see this more than I sure can, but I've
• 24:27
  S2: seen where certain pathways were cut off because of surgical needs.
• 24:31
  S2: God works miraculously with workarounds. The body so beautifully made.
• 24:36
  S2: You know those stories, right, Doctor Fuzz?
• 24:39
  S8: Yeah, yeah. I mean, there's all these redundancies built into
• 24:43
  S8: our anatomy and physiology. And in fact, one of the
• 24:47
  S8: functions that junk DNA plays is to serve as a
• 24:51
  S8: redundant system to back up the loss of genes by
• 24:55
  S8: mutations that these, you know, so-called junk DNA sequences are
• 25:00
  S8: actually serving in that redundancy capacity to ensure the robustness
• 25:05
  S8: of the design of the human body.
• 25:07
  S2: Ah, it's just fascinating. Again, Doctor Fuzz Rana with us
• 25:12
  S2: right now. And he's with Reasons to believe. I'm going
• 25:15
  S2: to give you a link for one of the most robust,
• 25:17
  S2: most beautiful websites you're going to see. Beautiful in that
• 25:21
  S2: the content they have is amazing. But brought you in
• 25:24
  S2: here on Chivalry Week. And some people might say, well,
• 25:28
  S2: what's a biochemist got to do with a man being
• 25:31
  S2: chivalrous and why it's not dead from a biochemist standpoint?
• 25:36
  S2: Give us a perspective on why humans and in many ways,
• 25:41
  S2: men are uniquely displaying acts of courage, compassion, altruism, all
• 25:47
  S2: these different things. What have you learned about the makeup
• 25:51
  S2: of men and women, their uniqueness and as it relates
• 25:55
  S2: to men, the birthplace of chivalry?
• 25:58
  S8: Yeah. Well, you know, this whole idea of chivalry, and
• 26:01
  S8: as you mentioned, altruism is something that I think as
• 26:04
  S8: human beings, it's so natural for us to care for
• 26:08
  S8: other people that we don't realize how special that property is,
• 26:13
  S8: that quality is in human beings because other animals engage
• 26:17
  S8: in altruism. But it's always like. Reciprocal altruism. I scratch
• 26:22
  S8: your back, you scratch my back, I give you food,
• 26:24
  S8: you give me food or kin altruism where you're, you're
• 26:28
  S8: taking care of members of a group that are genetically
• 26:31
  S8: related to you. But humans are the only creature, if
• 26:34
  S8: you will, that basically engage in what's called prosocial altruism,
• 26:39
  S8: where we help people with no prospect of any kind
• 26:43
  S8: of benefit for ourselves, right? That we help complete strangers,
• 26:47
  S8: we help people that we don't know that we disagree with,
• 26:51
  S8: that have different values than us. We help people on
• 26:54
  S8: the other side of the world. We're concerned about what's
• 26:57
  S8: going to happen with future generations. We want to leave
• 27:00
  S8: the world a better shape than we left it. We
• 27:02
  S8: create institutions like charities with the whole idea that these
• 27:06
  S8: charities are going to help people that we don't even know,
• 27:10
  S8: and that we invest in charities. And this is a
• 27:13
  S8: unique quality that evolution can't explain in humans. You can
• 27:18
  S8: explain reciprocal altruism and kin altruism, but you can't explain,
• 27:23
  S8: again what's called prosocial altruism. And it appears to be
• 27:26
  S8: hardwired into us, right, that we have something as human
• 27:30
  S8: beings called theory of mind, where we recognize that others
• 27:35
  S8: have minds like us and we know what they're thinking,
• 27:38
  S8: we know what they're feeling. And we have this enormous
• 27:41
  S8: empathy because we have what are called these mirror neurons
• 27:46
  S8: that are the source of empathy, that that when we
• 27:48
  S8: see other people, we experience what they're experiencing. In a sense,
• 27:53
  S8: because of these mirror neurons. And there's even studies showing
• 27:57
  S8: that when you do acts of service in kindness and
• 28:01
  S8: generosity for other people, it triggers all these reward processes
• 28:06
  S8: and systems inside your brain as if you were getting
• 28:10
  S8: some kind of, you know, direct benefit. It's hardwired into us.
• 28:14
  S8: That only makes sense if we understand that humans are
• 28:17
  S8: made in God's image.
• 28:18
  S2: Yeah, I was just going to go there, Doctor Fuzz.
• 28:20
  S2: So is this the fruit of being image bearers? Not
• 28:25
  S2: that we are all born again. The vast majority of
• 28:29
  S2: the people on the planet aren't. But there's a little
• 28:32
  S2: window of God in all of our souls that creates this.
• 28:36
  S8: That's beautifully said, Carl. That's exactly right, because that's how
• 28:40
  S8: I view it, at least, is that as image bearers,
• 28:43
  S8: we can't help but to recognize other people are special.
• 28:48
  S8: That there's a sacredness about other human beings, that there's
• 28:52
  S8: something valuable about them, even if we are not believers,
• 28:55
  S8: even if we're not Christians. And of course, human beings
• 28:58
  S8: can do wicked and evil things towards one another, but
• 29:02
  S8: that's because we are sinners. But even for people that
• 29:05
  S8: are steeped in their sin, they're still that image of
• 29:09
  S8: God that shines through on occasion, where we really are
• 29:13
  S8: willing to help other people that we don't know, that
• 29:17
  S8: really provide no benefit. They can't pay us back in
• 29:21
  S8: any way.
• 29:22
  S2: That's powerful. Doctor fuzz, I'm checking some pasta here. I
• 29:26
  S2: don't know if it'll stick. Is there any biochemical evidence
• 29:30
  S2: that something changes in our personhood as we are born again?
• 29:37
  S2: Has anyone ever done a study of that brain science
• 29:40
  S2: or otherwise?
• 29:42
  S8: You know, that's a great question, and I don't know
• 29:45
  S8: the answer to that. That actually would be worth taking
• 29:48
  S8: a look at. But I do know that people that
• 29:51
  S8: live according to biblical principles live healthier lives, both physically
• 29:56
  S8: as well as mentally, that there's a real benefit to
• 30:00
  S8: pursuing biblical wisdom. And again, if you engage in altruistic behavior,
• 30:06
  S8: it does have effects on your brain, right? Where there's
• 30:10
  S8: this reward system. And, you know, the way that reward
• 30:13
  S8: systems work is that when you're rewarded for a certain act,
• 30:17
  S8: you're more likely to do that act again and again.
• 30:20
  S8: And so becoming altruistic and generous and kind feeds on
• 30:25
  S8: itself and makes you more and more like that quality.
• 30:28
  S8: And to me, that's the ultimate value, you know, in
• 30:31
  S8: the kingdom of God, right? Is altruism.
• 30:35
  S2: You know, dopamine. Isn't it fascinating that God made dopamine?
• 30:39
  S2: Now we can abuse how we get it, but God
• 30:42
  S2: made it. How cool is that, Doctor Fuzz?
• 30:45
  S8: Oh, yeah. I mean, that's absolutely remarkable that there are
• 30:48
  S8: these neurochemicals that reinforce good behavior that, you know, oxytocin
• 30:53
  S8: is another. It's called sometimes the love chemical, right? That
• 30:57
  S8: when we love another person, there's that relief that we
• 31:01
  S8: find gratifying, right? That compels us to seek after that
• 31:06
  S8: release more and more. I exercise every day, and part
• 31:09
  S8: of my motivation is I'm addicted to my own dopamine.
• 31:13
  S3: Yeah, yeah.
• 31:14
  S8: This dopamine release when you exercise and that compels you
• 31:17
  S8: to do exercise again because you're chasing that dopamine release.
• 31:22
  S2: I love it based on biochemistry. What's a promise you
• 31:26
  S2: can make to every man listening who initiates toward his
• 31:31
  S2: woman and loving her as Christ loved the church, being
• 31:35
  S2: an initiating man, not getting stuck in passivity, leading courageously.
• 31:40
  S2: What can you say from a biochemist standpoint is going
• 31:44
  S2: to be their reward? It's right down these lines, isn't it?
• 31:47
  S8: It is. Well, the feeling that you're going to have
• 31:50
  S8: when you do that type of thing is going to be, again,
• 31:54
  S8: the same type of feeling that you would have when
• 31:57
  S8: you listen to great music or you eat a great meal.
• 32:00
  S8: There is going to be a real reward that you
• 32:03
  S8: will feel in your brain when you engage in that
• 32:07
  S8: kind of chivalrous behavior. And again, if you if nothing else,
• 32:13
  S8: by continuing to engage in that behavior, you're going to
• 32:16
  S8: get a deeper and deeper reward over time. But that's
• 32:19
  S8: really not the reason why you want to do it.
• 32:21
  S8: You want to do it because it's the right thing.
• 32:24
  S3: Yeah.
• 32:24
  S2: And that's, that's kind of an interesting thing. I've talked
• 32:27
  S2: with some theologians about this. Is it okay to pursue
• 32:30
  S2: God for rewards? There's more and more of a tilt
• 32:33
  S2: toward no, God made those rewards. God made dopamine. And
• 32:37
  S2: to delight in that, not a bad motivation. Although honoring
• 32:42
  S2: God is first and foremost. I love it. Doctor Fuzz
• 32:45
  S2: Rana with us right now. Fuzz. When folks get to
• 32:48
  S2: your website, what are they going to see?
• 32:52
  S8: There's going to be all kinds of articles and videos
• 32:54
  S8: that they can access for no cost. That gives them
• 32:57
  S8: insight and answers to a wide range of science faith questions.
• 33:02
  S8: And what I'm excited about is in June, we're going
• 33:05
  S8: to launch a new website that's going to be actually
• 33:10
  S8: focused on answering questions that most laypeople have about science
• 33:15
  S8: and faith. So we're going to expand our website so
• 33:18
  S8: that it's much more friendly to the person that doesn't
• 33:22
  S8: have a science background.
• 33:24
  S2: Love it. Check it out. Boom crew. It's called reasons.org.
• 33:27
  S2: But all you got to do a simple little link
• 33:29
  S2: text fuzz FUZFUZ. That's it. Just fuzz to 805 557898.
• 33:37
  S2: Everything you need right there, text fuzz to 805 557898.
• 33:45
  S1: Your shot of hope to get you through the day.
• 33:48
  S6: You are so, so loved. God does not want you
• 33:51
  S6: to stay in your past, and I want you to
• 33:53
  S6: know and believe that today.
• 33:55
  S1: You're listening to Carl and Crew.
• 33:56
  S2: Well, we've established, and this isn't hard to figure out,
• 33:59
  S2: that there's a lot of different manifestations of manhood. Two
• 34:04
  S2: of them missing the mark, two big buckets missing the mark.
• 34:06
  S2: It's kind of like how we fall off the high
• 34:09
  S2: ridge of biblical masculinity. One is passivity, and we get that.
• 34:15
  S2: We see Adam doing this great trick. He blames God
• 34:21
  S2: and Eve in one sentence. That's a pretty good trick,
• 34:24
  S2: isn't it, Alan?
• 34:25
  S3: Yeah.
• 34:25
  S2: And it just encompassed the whole thing. One big fell swoop.
• 34:29
  S2: And really, it's that passivity that we can conclude easily
• 34:34
  S2: that led Adam into some real danger. And he needed
• 34:38
  S2: to ultimately own that. The other side of this high
• 34:42
  S2: ridge is toxic masculinity. And we see this. And I'm
• 34:47
  S2: not even going to feature the podcasters that are doing it,
• 34:50
  S2: but they're all over the place. And some young men
• 34:52
  S2: are getting swept up in this. But authentic masculinity that
• 34:56
  S2: leads to real chivalry. It's not dead guys. And we
• 35:00
  S2: got someone here that's going to champion it big time.
• 35:02
  S2: Seth Trout with us right now teaching pastor at Ironwood
• 35:05
  S2: Church in Phoenix metro area. Man, you're committed to getting
• 35:09
  S2: on this high Ridge, aren't you, Seth?
• 35:11
  S9: I'm doing the best I can, and I'm really trying
• 35:13
  S9: to help young men in particular, catch a vision for
• 35:16
  S9: how exciting and captivating godly masculinity can be.
• 35:20
  S4: Seth Trout is the author of a new book called
• 35:23
  S4: Authentic Masculinity Leaving Behind the Counterfeits for God's Design. What
• 35:29
  S4: were you seeing from your vantage point as a pastor,
• 35:32
  S4: as just in culture that prompted you to write this book?
• 35:37
  S9: Well, the primary thing that was most concerning was how
• 35:39
  S9: so many young men, even in church, were being led
• 35:43
  S9: astray and being interested in a lot of what you
• 35:46
  S9: just called as toxic masculinity. The kind of marriage is
• 35:50
  S9: a trap designed to domesticate. Men have kids with as
• 35:53
  S9: many women as possible, all that kind of garbage. That
• 35:56
  S9: I do think is an overreaction to that third wave
• 36:00
  S9: feminism that promoted the interchangeability of the sexes. But I
• 36:03
  S9: was shocked at how many people within the church, how
• 36:06
  S9: many young men within the church were being led astray
• 36:09
  S9: by these bad teachings that really just baptize the desires
• 36:12
  S9: of the flesh, especially sex, money, and power?
• 36:14
  S3: Yeah.
• 36:15
  S2: You know, you aren't wrong, man. And I appreciate your
• 36:17
  S2: clarity on this topic. So you unpack counterfeits. You've hit
• 36:22
  S2: touched on 1 or 2 already, but what are some
• 36:24
  S2: of the counterfeits that guys have bought into that we
• 36:28
  S2: need to clarify here.
• 36:30
  S9: I think your whole theme this week on chivalry is,
• 36:33
  S9: is really kind of hitting the nail on the head.
• 36:35
  S9: What you have is either the non-use of power, which is,
• 36:39
  S9: you know, passivity or abdication. And I think most men
• 36:42
  S9: are stewarding wounds from that. They're under fathered or unbothered altogether.
• 36:46
  S9: And maybe in response to some of that, they kind
• 36:48
  S9: of go to a hyper emphasis on the distinctions between
• 36:51
  S9: man and woman. And you kind of get this women
• 36:54
  S9: are from Mars, men are from Venus type of thing
• 36:57
  S9: going on that is, I think, really popular among young
• 37:00
  S9: men in particular, because it's trying to highlight and react
• 37:03
  S9: against a lot of what their parents were taught and
• 37:05
  S9: were teaching them. And that kind of reaction against the
• 37:09
  S9: non-use of power to the misuse of power or abuse.
• 37:12
  S9: People tend to flip back and forth between those from
• 37:15
  S9: generation to generation.
• 37:16
  S2: Yeah, it's so true. Seth Trout, our guest right now.
• 37:19
  S2: Let's linger a little bit on this without a father
• 37:22
  S2: or under fathered. What's amazing about this is, and you
• 37:26
  S2: must be seeing it, you can be raised in a
• 37:28
  S2: pretty intact family and not understand biblical masculinity at all.
• 37:33
  S2: What happened there, Seth?
• 37:35
  S9: Well, I think it's actually a bigger problem than ever
• 37:37
  S9: before because of digital technology and the way that the
• 37:41
  S9: algorithms work is young guys can really get caught in
• 37:44
  S9: a doom loop where they're exposed to dozens and dozens,
• 37:47
  S9: maybe thousands, even of false messages. And before, if you
• 37:51
  S9: wanted to read bad versions of masculinity, you masculinity. You
• 37:54
  S9: had to go to the library and look up a book,
• 37:57
  S9: but now it's just fed to you. And that rage bait,
• 38:00
  S9: which is a lot of the reason the algorithms work,
• 38:01
  S9: is they keep you angry, keep you agitated, and keep
• 38:04
  S9: you watching. And I think young guys in particular have
• 38:06
  S9: a higher hill to climb than ever before in world history,
• 38:09
  S9: precisely because of social media culture.
• 38:11
  S4: So I think if you were to ask if we
• 38:13
  S4: were to go out on any street in, in America
• 38:16
  S4: and ask people, what do you think are the qualities
• 38:20
  S4: that should be present in a man? And you didn't
• 38:23
  S4: say what your aim was. I'd be curious to know
• 38:26
  S4: what kind of responses that you would get. My guess
• 38:29
  S4: it would be things around strength, maybe hard working. What
• 38:34
  S4: other Karl, what would you throw in there as far
• 38:36
  S4: as what people might might be commonly assumed as a
• 38:40
  S4: quality a man should have?
• 38:41
  S3: You know what.
• 38:42
  S2: Makes that such a great question, and I want to
• 38:44
  S2: hear your take on this one, Seth, is that there
• 38:46
  S2: is this we've gotten so twisted on this one. I
• 38:50
  S2: think there's a hesitancy to even respond at all to it.
• 38:54
  S2: What do you think, Seth?
• 38:55
  S9: Oh, yeah. I've seen many clips on Instagram or TikTok
• 38:58
  S9: where someone gets asked a question like that by a
• 39:01
  S9: man with a camera and a microphone, and their friend says,
• 39:04
  S9: don't answer that. You'll get canceled. And so there is
• 39:06
  S9: that apprehensiveness. And people are slow to speak because they
• 39:11
  S9: really don't want to get, you know, criminalized or crushed
• 39:14
  S9: or canceled by some future employer or some future spouse.
• 39:19
  S2: Okay, here's what's weird about that, because look, biblical masculinity,
• 39:24
  S2: authentic as you've titled it in your book, masculinity, it's compelling,
• 39:29
  S2: it's leading, it's loving, it's sacrificing. How did that get
• 39:33
  S2: lost in the shuffle here?
• 39:35
  S9: The reason that things get lost is the same reason
• 39:38
  S9: for every generation. It's that the desires of the flesh
• 39:41
  S9: are strong, and people want to be validated in their
• 39:44
  S9: disordered desires. And the fact that the church in particular
• 39:48
  S9: has been pretty quiet on this issue, I think is
• 39:51
  S9: part of the problem, because a lot of what happens
• 39:53
  S9: is people critique the negative visions of masculinity. Then they say,
• 39:57
  S9: you should just try to be like Jesus, who is
• 40:00
  S9: the archetypical man. And I say, yes, that is true. However,
• 40:04
  S9: men and women both are trying to be like Jesus.
• 40:07
  S9: How exactly are men supposed to be like Jesus in
• 40:10
  S9: a way that's different than the way women are supposed
• 40:12
  S9: to be like Jesus? And that's when people start to
• 40:15
  S9: clam up and get nervous and really trying to paint
• 40:18
  S9: the bull's eye in the midst of that mist. And
• 40:20
  S9: that void was what I was trying to do with
• 40:22
  S9: the book, is try to answer the question as clearly
• 40:24
  S9: as possible. How are men trying to be Christ like
• 40:28
  S9: in a way that's maybe slightly distinct from how women
• 40:30
  S9: are trying to be Christ like.
• 40:31
  S4: Okay, so let's name some of these things that you're
• 40:34
  S4: discussing in the book. You kind of have organized it,
• 40:37
  S4: structured around two pyramids, what a man should be like.
• 40:40
  S4: So those virtues and what a man should do his roles.
• 40:44
  S4: Let's start with those masculine virtues that are essential for
• 40:47
  S4: godly character.
• 40:49
  S9: Yeah. Trying to align our disposition, our character or virtues
• 40:52
  S9: with reality is the goal. And so the first pyramid
• 40:55
  S9: is actually part of the book I'm the most proud of,
• 40:57
  S9: but just it's rooted in a series of negations. So
• 40:59
  S9: man is not God, therefore he must be humble. Man
• 41:03
  S9: is not an animal. So he must have discipline in
• 41:05
  S9: the sense that he rightly orders his desires and and
• 41:08
  S9: isn't governed by his instincts and appetites. A man is
• 41:11
  S9: not a child. Man is not a boy. He doesn't
• 41:13
  S9: need to be mothered. So he should have responsibility. He's
• 41:16
  S9: not a blame shifter, but he's a a responsibility absorber.
• 41:20
  S9: And then man is not a woman, so he must
• 41:21
  S9: be chivalrous. And so this perfectly connects with your theme
• 41:25
  S9: this week. But that kind of comes from first Peter
• 41:26
  S9: three seven. That man is supposed to show honor to
• 41:29
  S9: the woman as the weaker vessel and their vessels referring
• 41:32
  S9: to their bodies. And so biological reality shapes different responsibilities
• 41:37
  S9: that men carry into how they treat other people, especially women.
• 41:41
  S9: And those first three virtues are very similar to what
• 41:44
  S9: women might carry. I do think when Adam sees even
• 41:46
  S9: the garden, the first thing he says is bone of
• 41:48
  S9: my bone. Flesh of my flesh. That he sees sameness.
• 41:51
  S9: And then there's also distinction within that sameness. And so
• 41:54
  S9: those virtues are really how a man should feel the
• 41:57
  S9: energy he brings into the room with him, and the
• 41:59
  S9: character that we bring into all of our various roles
• 42:02
  S9: we inhabit.
• 42:03
  S4: So what about those roles? Break those down.
• 42:05
  S9: So the second pyramid is son, brother maker, husband, father
• 42:08
  S9: going from bottom to top. And the reason it is
• 42:11
  S9: done in that order is because every man is a
• 42:13
  S9: son before he's born. He carries a genetic and a
• 42:17
  S9: spiritual history, family baggage. You could say some of that
• 42:20
  S9: baggage is good and bad, but it must be stewarded.
• 42:22
  S9: You know, when the airline loses your baggage, you're mad
• 42:24
  S9: at them because that was good baggage. So every man's
• 42:26
  S9: bringing good baggage and bag baggage, and he has to
• 42:28
  S9: steward that and try to become the type of man
• 42:30
  S9: that a wise man would be proud of. That's the
• 42:32
  S9: role of son. Brother is about male friendship, fraternity, brotherhood.
• 42:36
  S9: Iron sharpens iron, but also seeing women as sisters with
• 42:40
  S9: all purity. That's first Timothy five, the beginning of that chapter,
• 42:44
  S9: which is really rooted in how do we subjectify rather
• 42:46
  S9: than objectify the women in our lives makers about working?
• 42:50
  S9: I do think that being a hard working man is
• 42:52
  S9: makes you an outlier compared to world history, that there's
• 42:55
  S9: no man in the in the garden to work it.
• 42:57
  S9: So God put Adam in the garden to work it
• 42:59
  S9: and keep it. That subdue and dominion is an emphasis
• 43:01
  S9: placed on Adam. You know, the Genesis three curse says
• 43:04
  S9: that by the sweat of his face he'll bring forth
• 43:06
  S9: food to eat. And so that pressure to provide, I
• 43:09
  S9: do think, is biblical. And then husband is about how
• 43:12
  S9: to find a wife, how to nurture and cherish your wife,
• 43:15
  S9: like Ephesians five talks about. And then father is both
• 43:18
  S9: biological and spiritual that we pass on ourselves to the
• 43:22
  S9: next generation, ideally both biologically and spiritually, that we are
• 43:26
  S9: having children, that our image and likeness we're teaching them
• 43:29
  S9: about Christ and that every man should aspire to be
• 43:31
  S9: elder qualified, even if he never holds the office of
• 43:34
  S9: elder in regards to his participation in the mission of
• 43:37
  S9: God through discipleship and evangelism.
• 43:39
  S3: Man.
• 43:40
  S2: Seth Trout, our guest right now. You are killing it,
• 43:42
  S2: young man, and I'll tell you why I think we
• 43:46
  S2: jump to masculine roles. Son, brother. Maker, husband. Father. Without talking. Virtue. Humility. Discipline. Responsibility. Chivalry.
• 43:56
  S2: How did you stumble on that? Because I gotta tell you,
• 43:59
  S2: that's not easily mined. I think you got to dig
• 44:01
  S2: deep to figure out, because we default to roles rather
• 44:05
  S2: than looking in the engine room of the soul of
• 44:08
  S2: a man. Right? Seth.
• 44:09
  S9: Yeah. Honestly, a lot of it was reflecting on my
• 44:11
  S9: own dad. A lot of guys my age have a
• 44:14
  S9: lot of anxiety or angst around masculinity and their roles,
• 44:17
  S9: whereas I didn't see much of any of that in
• 44:19
  S9: my dad, and I didn't have much of it in myself.
• 44:21
  S9: And my dad was not a big reader. How to
• 44:24
  S9: be a Husband book Rita, How to Be a Father book.
• 44:27
  S9: He was more worried about being a good man and
• 44:30
  S9: having godly character, broadly speaking, and then trusting that that
• 44:34
  S9: would bleed into his roles. I think especially now, I
• 44:37
  S9: see a lot of guys who are preoccupied with being
• 44:39
  S9: good fathers, at least in my age group, and I go,
• 44:41
  S9: you can't be a good father unless you're a good man.
• 44:44
  S3: Boom! You nailed.
• 44:45
  S9: It. You got to get the foundation solid before you
• 44:47
  S9: try to go and act. Otherwise, you're kind of taping
• 44:49
  S9: fruit onto cactuses and calling it a tree.
• 44:52
  S3: Yeah.
• 44:52
  S2: I got to tell you something, Seth. This is the
• 44:55
  S2: secret sauce, bro. And I know you're like. That's why
• 44:58
  S2: I wrote it, Carl.
• 44:59
  S3: I get it.
• 45:00
  S2: But this is the secret sauce, man. I am absolutely
• 45:05
  S2: solid on this one. We talk about spiritual disciplines of
• 45:08
  S2: any kind without the engine room of the soul of introspection,
• 45:14
  S2: invitation for examination from God. All that other stuff is
• 45:18
  S2: Band-Aids out there. So you nailed it. I'm so proud
• 45:22
  S2: of you, Seth. What's the response you're getting to this
• 45:25
  S2: work you've done?
• 45:26
  S9: The most encouraging response has been from the people within
• 45:28
  S9: my church who are going, this sounds like you, and
• 45:31
  S9: this is congruent with who you are. And so you
• 45:33
  S9: write a book about authenticity and counterfeits. I'm like, you know,
• 45:37
  S9: there's always that nervousness, especially it's my first book. I'm like, well,
• 45:40
  S9: it sound like me. me. Will people read it and
• 45:41
  S9: be like, who's this guy think he is? But that's
• 45:43
  S9: been the most encouraging feedback, is that the people who
• 45:45
  S9: know me are going like, yeah, this is a faithful
• 45:46
  S9: extension of you. The other thing that's been wildly encouraging
• 45:50
  S9: has been the dads who are like in their 40s,
• 45:52
  S9: who are reading it with their teenage sons, and they're going,
• 45:55
  S9: my son's getting it. He's understanding it. We're having great
• 45:58
  S9: conversations around it. Uh, it's compelling. It's captivating. I can't
• 46:02
  S9: wait for him to. And so a lot of these
• 46:04
  S9: teens are now reading it with their friends as well.
• 46:06
  S9: And I didn't necessarily have 17 year olds in mind,
• 46:09
  S9: but I definitely wanted 16, 17 year olds to be
• 46:11
  S9: able to read it. But I was really, honestly, my
• 46:13
  S9: main audience was me, you know, like myself going, if
• 46:17
  S9: we can get fathers to really get clear biblical about
• 46:20
  S9: who they are, then in their parenting, it'll naturally trickle down.
• 46:25
  S4: Seth Trout The book is called Authentic Masculinity Leaving Behind
• 46:28
  S4: the Counterfeits for God's Design. Text authentic to 805 557898.
• 46:35
  S4: Just that one word authentic 805 557898.