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19 Fourth Graders, 2 Teachers Gunned Down Dead: WHY? · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:05
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace. Nineteen students dead, two teachers dead,
0:19
Speaker 1: and yet another school shooting. Why, Why in the most
0:26
Speaker 1: prosperous country in the world does this keep happening? Are
0:32
Speaker 1: you tired of hearing that? Well, I'm tired of saying it,
0:35
Speaker 1: but I can tell you something else. I'd be out
0:37
Speaker 1: of my mind if this happened at a school where
0:42
Speaker 1: my children attended. Think about that for a moment. I
0:46
Speaker 1: Nancy Grace, this is Crime Stories. Thank you for being
0:48
Speaker 1: with us here at Fox Nation and Series eleven. Take
0:51
Speaker 1: a listen to this. A gunman opened fire here at
0:54
Speaker 1: rob Elementary School in Uvalde, Texas, free nineteen students and
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Speaker 1: two teachers killed. My heart was broken to day. We're
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Speaker 1: a small community and well we need your prayers to
1:12
Speaker 1: get us through this. Before entering the school, gunman eighteen
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Speaker 1: year old Salvador Ramos, a student at Uvaldi High School,
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Speaker 1: shot his grandmother at her residence. She is now in
1:21
Speaker 1: critical condition. We were the first ones. We're right, we're
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Speaker 1: right behind her house. Shortly after, the suspect crashed his
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Speaker 1: car outside of the school premises, where he engaged with
1:30
Speaker 1: law enforcement. Then at eleven thirty two am Central time,
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Speaker 1: the suspect, wearing body armor, abandoned his vehicle and entered
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Speaker 1: the school where second, third and fourth graders were in
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Speaker 1: the middle of the school day. You're hearing our friend
1:44
Speaker 1: Emmy Robock at ABC we've got an all star panel.
1:46
Speaker 1: But let me go straight out to the scene. Joining me.
1:50
Speaker 1: Tony Plahetski reporter with the Austin American Statesman and KVU. Tony,
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Speaker 1: what happened? Nancy authorities, they're still trying to fully understand
1:59
Speaker 1: what happened, But what we know is that this gunman
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Speaker 1: shot his grandmother at her home where he also lived
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Speaker 1: before going to this school and opening fire. Nancy authorities
2:12
Speaker 1: do tell us that the grandmother is still alive, and
2:15
Speaker 1: based on a briefing that a state senator here in
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Speaker 1: Texas received late last night, that grandmother actually worked at
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Speaker 1: rob Elementary School until May of twenty twenty. So they're still,
2:29
Speaker 1: of course, trying to figure out the connections here, but
2:32
Speaker 1: that is the latest information. So he shot his grandmother
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Speaker 1: who's in critical condition, who used to work at rob
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Speaker 1: What can you tell me about his mo? His modus
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Speaker 1: operendi method of operation? He shows up, crashes his car
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Speaker 1: intentionally not intentionally goes into the school. How does he
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Speaker 1: get into the school? What weapons did he use? And
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Speaker 1: why did he pick that particular time of day. I'm
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Speaker 1: curious ahead, Tony. Yeah, And obviously some of that information
3:03
Speaker 1: is are the same question, Nancy, that authorities are trying
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Speaker 1: to ask as well. But I do want to tell
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Speaker 1: you this. The shooter purchase, according to authorities, to a
3:16
Speaker 1: R rifle on May seventeenth and May twentieth, That was
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Speaker 1: just last week from a local federally licensed firearm dealer
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Speaker 1: here in Ubaldi. He is, of course from Ubaldi as
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Speaker 1: well as Nancy, nearly four hundred rounds of ammunition. Oh,
3:34
Speaker 1: dear Lord in Heaven. I know the rest of the
3:36
Speaker 1: panel is chomping at the bit. I'm going to come
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Speaker 1: to you just a moment, but we're expecting a presser
3:41
Speaker 1: and I want to get every drop of information from
3:44
Speaker 1: Tony Plahotski joining us before he races over to the
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Speaker 1: press conference. Tony Plahotsky, you stated he bought two A
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Speaker 1: R rifles on May twenty Is that correct? May seventeenth
3:56
Speaker 1: and May twentieth, Nancy, this is right around his eighteenth birthday.
4:00
Speaker 1: I want to be clear about that. Too, right after
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Speaker 1: his eighteenth birthday, and so obviously a lot of attention
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Speaker 1: on where he purchased these firearms. But again, to be clear,
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Speaker 1: according to the ATS, which has been working around the
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Speaker 1: clock to try to unpack all of this, he did
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Speaker 1: purchase them legally. Okay, yes, I've heard statements from the
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Speaker 1: gun shop owner that sold him the guns, who's beside himself.
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Speaker 1: The reality is is that you can purchase guns, even
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Speaker 1: assault rifles, at age eighteen. But in that jurisdiction, your jurisdiction,
4:37
Speaker 1: Tony Poalhski joining me from the same you have to
4:40
Speaker 1: be twenty one to drink. That's exactly right, That's exactly right.
4:44
Speaker 1: Before I can have a hard cider, I gotta be
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Speaker 1: twenty one. But I can get an assault rifle at eighteen.
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Speaker 1: Is that correct? That is correct? Go ahead, Tony, tell
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Speaker 1: me about the school. How did he get into the school?
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Speaker 1: Did they have any security whatsoever? Not to my knowledge, Anthy,
5:00
Speaker 1: I want to tell you something that I was so
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Speaker 1: struck by yesterday evening as I arrived at the scene.
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Speaker 1: And of course we all know that the media from
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Speaker 1: around the country, around the world converges on a scene
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Speaker 1: like this. We're talking about an elementary school that looks
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Speaker 1: just like the one I went to in Mississippi, you know,
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Speaker 1: a picturesque elementary school, playground equipment, and then to see
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Speaker 1: that school completely reamed by law enforcement combing through that
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Speaker 1: school trying to identify these nineteen little bodies. It just
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Speaker 1: stood and start contrast and nanthy at. A point that
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Speaker 1: I've also made is that this is very reminiscent for
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Speaker 1: me personally of the Sutherland Spring shooting in two seventeen.
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Speaker 1: I was on the ground there as well, and it
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Speaker 1: just as a reminder that these types of events are
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Speaker 1: not limited to urban areas, but instead, or now, we're
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Speaker 1: seeing them play out in small cities. Ubaldi a sixteen
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Speaker 1: thousand people across our country. You know Tony Plahovski joining
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Speaker 1: me from the scene. They're in Texas. He is with
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Speaker 1: Kvu Kvue and Austin American Statesman. What you just said
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Speaker 1: about rab elementary, It's so odd. I thought the very
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Speaker 1: same thing. It looked like my public elementary school in
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Speaker 1: middle Georgia, and the middle of unincorporated bib County. Doctor
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Speaker 1: John h Rd Elementary looks almost exactly like it. What
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Speaker 1: time of the day did the shootings take place, Tony Plahotski,
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Speaker 1: Manthy just right before lunch, right around eleven thirty is
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Speaker 1: when authorities started getting the nine one one call and
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Speaker 1: law enforcement, state, federal, local law enforcement converge on the scene.
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Speaker 1: But Nancy, they had troubles to doing this suspect because
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Speaker 1: he apparently was wearing some type of armor that prevented
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Speaker 1: them from taking him down. So clearly a lot of
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Speaker 1: thought and a lot of preparation, Tony. Where was he
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Speaker 1: when he was finally subdued and shot inside the school building? Nancy?
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Speaker 1: I don't know at this point exactly if he was
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Speaker 1: in a classroom, in the hallway, in the library, and
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Speaker 1: the cafeteria. I don't have that level of detail. What
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Speaker 1: I can tell you, though, is that of the two
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Speaker 1: guns that he purchased just last week, one of them
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Speaker 1: was in his crashed out vehicle. The other one, of course,
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Speaker 1: was with him. And I'm curious about how he got in,
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Speaker 1: whether the school had any type of security, whether they
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Speaker 1: kept the doors locked. You know, just the other day,
7:51
Speaker 1: Tony Blahatski, I was leaving the Twins School and saw
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Speaker 1: a door to the outside propped open. It's a really
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Speaker 1: hot day. I turner right back around and call the
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Speaker 1: school and wait. Differ than to shut that door, because
8:06
Speaker 1: that's a kind of security breach that can end up
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Speaker 1: in a school shooting or some other crime. I'm thinking
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Speaker 1: about the eleven thirty am attack. Now. Isn't it true,
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Speaker 1: Tony Plaatski, that this guy, that defendant, Salvador Ramos, lived
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Speaker 1: not very far from the school? Isn't that right? That
8:28
Speaker 1: is my understanding. And the fat Nancy have been on
8:30
Speaker 1: the ground talking to people this morning who said that
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Speaker 1: they heard what they believe were the gunshot or a
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Speaker 1: gunshot and during which he shot his grandmother, and then
8:42
Speaker 1: saw his car racing toward the school. This is a
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Speaker 1: really small neighborhood home, they're very near each other, and
8:50
Speaker 1: so then people reportedly saw him get out of that
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Speaker 1: car and run into that school, and then of course
8:59
Speaker 1: the sport of gunfire the hall a full of Tony.
9:03
Speaker 1: Did you say people observed him get out of the
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Speaker 1: car and run in. That is my understanding. Yes, I'm
9:09
Speaker 1: just wondering if he crashed the car for some reason.
9:12
Speaker 1: We also know that many, if not all, of the
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Speaker 1: nineteen dead children were fourth graders. Is that right, Tony?
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Speaker 1: And who are the teachers yet, two teachers and Nancy.
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Speaker 1: This is a school of about just four hundred and
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Speaker 1: fifty students ages came through fourth grade. Sadly were told
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Speaker 1: that that one of the victims was ten years old
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Speaker 1: and his mother had actually attended an award ceremony just
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Speaker 1: a couple of hours earlier at that school. Four it
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Speaker 1: was the last time she saw her young adorable son.
10:05
Speaker 1: Time stories with Nancy Grace Guys joining me there on
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Speaker 1: the scene is Tony Platsky with KVUE and the awesome
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Speaker 1: American Statesman. Take a listen to the Valdi Chief of Police.
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Speaker 1: At approximate eleven thirty two am this morning, there was
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Speaker 1: a mass casualty incident at rob Elementary School in New Valdi, Texas.
10:26
Speaker 1: This school has children that are in second, third and
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Speaker 1: fourth grade. I can confirm right now that we have
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Speaker 1: several injuries adults and students, and we do have some deaths.
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Speaker 1: The suspect is deceased. At this point, DPS is assisting
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Speaker 1: with the investigation, and at this point the investigation is
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Speaker 1: leading to tell us that the suspect did act alone
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Speaker 1: during this HIAENUS crime. Families are being notified and we
10:55
Speaker 1: are providing services to them as the district should as
11:00
Speaker 1: far as the rest of the districts concern. Safety measures
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Speaker 1: were taken to make sure that we had a safe
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Speaker 1: release for the rest of the district throughout our city
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Speaker 1: of U Valley, and we had numerous law enforcement officers
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Speaker 1: and agencies that assisted with a safety release for those students.
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Speaker 1: We do want to keep all our families in their prayers.
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Speaker 1: I hope you do as well, and we also want
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Speaker 1: to respect the privacy of the family. The crime scene
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Speaker 1: is still being worked on, and again we'll notify the
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Speaker 1: parents and the families as soon as we have some
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Speaker 1: news for them. They're on the scene. Tony Polhetski joining
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Speaker 1: me from KVU, I understand that a Border patrol officer
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Speaker 1: heard the shots and raced into the shooting to an
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Speaker 1: active shooting scenario and he is the one that shot Ramos.
11:44
Speaker 1: Is that correct? That is correct, and I do want
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Speaker 1: to also mention that there are law enforcement officers who
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Speaker 1: were shot and injured as part of these events as well, Nancy.
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Speaker 1: Later today we are expected to get some clarity as
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Speaker 1: well around number of students and faculty members who were
12:03
Speaker 1: injured as well. That that count as these things often
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Speaker 1: do in a situation like this, continues to be somewhat fluid.
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Speaker 1: I understand, Tony Palhetsky, that the sheet or Salvador Rabos
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Speaker 1: was known by police. That is my understanding as well.
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Speaker 1: We are still trying to get those investigatory details as well.
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Speaker 1: But Nancy, before I have to go to this news conference,
12:30
Speaker 1: I do want to just take a minute to talk
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Speaker 1: about this community here in Ubalday and just the amount
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Speaker 1: of grief. As you can imagine, this is a town
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Speaker 1: of sixteen thousand people. The local funeral home Nancy just
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Speaker 1: announced this ay or providing free services to all of
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Speaker 1: the victims of yesterday's tragedy, really underscoring, you know, how
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Speaker 1: this community is trying to come together and support each
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Speaker 1: other as that they can. But to say that it
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Speaker 1: has been ripped apart is obviously an understatement. You know,
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Speaker 1: Tony Platsky, you and I have been friends and colleagues
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Speaker 1: for a very, very long time. You have been in
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Speaker 1: my life since the twins were born, and knew of
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Speaker 1: them and about them when they were this age the
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Speaker 1: fourth grade. The scene of the parents running into the
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Speaker 1: shooting yesterday just broke my heart. I mean, tell me,
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Speaker 1: the scene. What are you seeing? So, I mean, tragically,
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Speaker 1: It is my understanding, and this of course makes perfect
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Speaker 1: that these little children did not have unlike maybe me
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Speaker 1: or you or most adults, identifying features. And so it
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Speaker 1: is my understanding that authorities are using DNA to try
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Speaker 1: to identify these children. But Nancy tragically, and this is
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Speaker 1: just almost impossible to speak, but authorities were also interviewing parents,
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Speaker 1: what type of clothing did you send your child to
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Speaker 1: school in this morning, and using that level of information
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Speaker 1: to try to figure out which of these children was
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Speaker 1: among the living and among the dead. I saw parents
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Speaker 1: going in and out giving DNA, yeah, to help identify
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Speaker 1: the children, and I think that some of them were
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Speaker 1: facially disfigured in the shooting. The little children huddled together,
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Speaker 1: sitting next to their best friends, as this guy, Salvador
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Speaker 1: Ramos may he burn in Hell, said you're gonna die.
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Speaker 1: It's what he said to them. You know, Tony, I
14:54
Speaker 1: know you're rushing off. I just want to tell you
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Speaker 1: my twins are graduating middle school, and last night in
15:00
Speaker 1: the rain, I was out hammering in yard letters congratulations
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Speaker 1: for them to see this morning, and while I was hammering,
15:09
Speaker 1: I thought of these parents that will never see their
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Speaker 1: children grow up. I know the town and the families
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Speaker 1: are torn apart. Tony absolutely, Nancy, you go to your
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Speaker 1: press or Tony, I'll circle back with you when the
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Speaker 1: press conference is done. Tony Platsky joining me, investigative reporter
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Speaker 1: Austin American Statesman, and Kvue. I have an all star panel,
15:35
Speaker 1: but I'm going to start with my long time friend
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Speaker 1: and colleague Karen Start joining me, New York psychologist Karen.
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Speaker 1: I just don't even know what to say. It just
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Speaker 1: one school shooting after the next, after the next, and
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Speaker 1: now fourth graders, Karen Nancy. Heartbreaking, just heartbreaking. And this guy,
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Speaker 1: he really fits the profile of the kind of person
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Speaker 1: who commits this crime, somebody who's an outsider, isolated, clearly prepared.
16:12
Speaker 1: As soon as he turned to eighteen, he went and
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Speaker 1: got those guns and knew exactly what he was going
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Speaker 1: to do. It's not an impulse at all. And it's
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Speaker 1: horrific that these parents when I think about not being
16:26
Speaker 1: able to identify your own children, having to give DNA,
16:31
Speaker 1: not having answers, and it reminds me of September eleventh,
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Speaker 1: of any attack where they're mass people who are dead
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Speaker 1: and you don't know is your child alive and did
16:43
Speaker 1: so stunningly heartbreaking. Another time you and I were together,
16:50
Speaker 1: both of us in New York at the time on
16:53
Speaker 1: nine one one with me Karen Stark, New York Psychologists
16:56
Speaker 1: joining us. You can find her at Karen Stark dot com.
16:59
Speaker 1: Karen with the Sea. You know. Joe Scott Morgan, Professor Forensics,
17:04
Speaker 1: Jacksonville State University, author of Blood Beneath My Feet on Amazon,
17:09
Speaker 1: star of a new series Body Bags, with Joe Scott
17:12
Speaker 1: Morgan on iHeart, I just I hardly know where to start,
17:19
Speaker 1: Joe Scott. I mean, at times like these and I
17:22
Speaker 1: was confronted with mass murders as a district assistant district attorney,
17:27
Speaker 1: I felt like I would go in machine mode and
17:31
Speaker 1: just start processing evidence and analyzing what I need to
17:38
Speaker 1: prove the case. I cannot even imagine analyzing this scene.
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Speaker 1: It's overwhelming. It's overwhelming mentally and spiritually too. I mean,
17:50
Speaker 1: it bores down into your soul. But you have to.
17:53
Speaker 1: You have to set your face like flint, as they
17:56
Speaker 1: say in Driving Forward and processes because difficult as it
18:01
Speaker 1: is to do, And just for a moment, let me
18:03
Speaker 1: reflect back. I had a good friend of mine that
18:05
Speaker 1: was at the Oklahoma City bombing and he was a
18:07
Speaker 1: print specialist and they had we didn't have DNA back then,
18:11
Speaker 1: and so you remember the nursery got wiped out there.
18:15
Speaker 1: He had to go to the home and dust for
18:17
Speaker 1: latent prints on toys and then go back and compare
18:21
Speaker 1: those prints. And so that's that's what these investigators. I
18:25
Speaker 1: saw him in front of a crowd of about a
18:27
Speaker 1: thousand investigators weeping. This has on the people that practice
18:33
Speaker 1: and have to do this, But you know, going back
18:37
Speaker 1: just kind of stealing yourself here and setting your face,
18:40
Speaker 1: you're giving the badge and you're giving this responsibility for
18:43
Speaker 1: a reason. You have to go in and process the
18:47
Speaker 1: scene as a homicide, because this is what it is.
18:50
Speaker 1: It's just on a grander scale, it is a mass homicide,
18:54
Speaker 1: and each one you honor the dead by treating each
18:59
Speaker 1: one of these little children as an individual homicide. And
19:02
Speaker 1: they have to be processed individually because you don't know
19:06
Speaker 1: when there's going to be an opportunity to learn more
19:09
Speaker 1: about this case. It might come up in trial. You
19:11
Speaker 1: never know what's going to happen in the future, so
19:14
Speaker 1: you have to treat this as if this is the
19:18
Speaker 1: last case you will ever work, and you have to
19:20
Speaker 1: put forth every bit of effort gathering every bit of
19:24
Speaker 1: daddy you own. Do you owe that to the families
19:26
Speaker 1: and you certainly owe that to these children as well.
19:29
Speaker 1: Take a listen to our friend Amy a roboc the
19:32
Speaker 1: gunman opening fire as soon as he stepped on school grounds,
19:35
Speaker 1: Students reportedly scrambling out of windows to escape. We just
19:39
Speaker 1: hear all kinds of gunshots going off like NonStop, like constantly, gunshots,
19:44
Speaker 1: and the world here are scared. What on the ground
19:48
Speaker 1: fearing for our lives. Fourth grader Jordan leegis telling ABC
19:51
Speaker 1: News about the moments when the gunman began firing shots
19:54
Speaker 1: at his classroom. When he sees the students at our teacher,
19:58
Speaker 1: that's when he starts shooting at the window and the
20:00
Speaker 1: wall right there. So if you start shooting it all up,
20:03
Speaker 1: all kinds of smoke is like in the room as
20:06
Speaker 1: we're in. Their authorities confirming the suspect was armed with
20:09
Speaker 1: an AR fifteen style rifle. Sources telling ABC News all
20:13
Speaker 1: the victims at the school died in the same location
20:16
Speaker 1: inside the school. That tells me, in one classroom, can
20:22
Speaker 1: you imagine the saying, take a listen to our cut
20:25
Speaker 1: six our friends at w FAA. Parents arriving at the
20:28
Speaker 1: school are telling ABC News they don't have much information
20:31
Speaker 1: right now, and at least a few are anxiously trying
20:34
Speaker 1: to find their kids. How long you've been looking for
20:37
Speaker 1: her today, since it happened. What are you worried about
20:42
Speaker 1: right now? She may not be alive. Have you heard anything?
20:49
Speaker 1: I don't know where rather than she's not. In San Antonio,
20:53
Speaker 1: when parents dropped their kids off at school, they have
20:57
Speaker 1: every expectation to know that they're going to be able
21:01
Speaker 1: to pick their child up when that school day ends.
21:05
Speaker 1: And there are families who are in mourning right now,
21:10
Speaker 1: and the stead of Texas is in mourning with them.
21:14
Speaker 1: Police say that the shooter acted alone. I was just
21:17
Speaker 1: thinking about the parents out in the parking lot, and
21:21
Speaker 1: reporters to asking them, what are you thinking? And they
21:25
Speaker 1: say whether my child is dead or alive? And I
21:29
Speaker 1: immediately flash in my mind to my children's school where
21:33
Speaker 1: they have gone since pre K and pacing back and
21:38
Speaker 1: forth wondering what's going on in there? Are John, David
21:42
Speaker 1: and Lucy dead or alive? I don't even know how
21:45
Speaker 1: the parents had the wherewithal to speak with me. Is
21:49
Speaker 1: David Kat's former senior Special Agent with the DA, founder
21:53
Speaker 1: and CEO of Global Security Group, Inc. He is an
21:57
Speaker 1: active shooter response expert. Davy Kats, take a listen to
22:02
Speaker 1: our cut for this is the Texas governor by mind
22:05
Speaker 1: is this, however, and that is when parents drop their
22:10
Speaker 1: kids off at school, they have every expectation to know
22:16
Speaker 1: that they're going to be able to pick their child
22:18
Speaker 1: up when that school day ends. And there are families
22:23
Speaker 1: who are in mourning right now, and the State of
22:26
Speaker 1: Texas is in mourning with them for the reality that
22:30
Speaker 1: these parents are not going to be able to pick
22:32
Speaker 1: up their children. Our job is multifold. First to make
22:38
Speaker 1: sure we address exactly what happened to this crime scene,
22:41
Speaker 1: and then second to make sure we take that information
22:43
Speaker 1: and do everything that is necessary to ensure that crime
22:47
Speaker 1: scenes like this are not going to be repeated in
22:49
Speaker 1: the future and that we're going to be able to
22:51
Speaker 1: ensure the safety and security of our schools. To you,
22:55
Speaker 1: Davy Kats, thank you for being with us again. Active
22:57
Speaker 1: shoot or Response expert at Global Security Group, Inc. David
23:03
Speaker 1: second verse, same as the first I know. We can
23:08
Speaker 1: learn from the crime scene, that is without doubt. But
23:13
Speaker 1: once we get that knowledge, David, what are we going
23:16
Speaker 1: to do with it? Nothing? Because when you don't know
23:19
Speaker 1: a horse, look at the trick record. How many school shootings,
23:24
Speaker 1: mass school shootings have we suffered in this country? And
23:27
Speaker 1: what if anything has been done about it? Before I
23:31
Speaker 1: go totally ballistic. Yes, schools now know that they should
23:36
Speaker 1: keep all the entrances and exits locked during the day.
23:40
Speaker 1: Many of them have metal detectors. Many of them have
23:43
Speaker 1: one point of entry that is secured so you can
23:48
Speaker 1: see who is coming in and out. But other than that, really, David,
23:55
Speaker 1: what have we learned and what can we learn from
23:57
Speaker 1: this shooting there at rob Elementary Emancy. I'm like you,
24:02
Speaker 1: I'm just devastated. I also have I have grown kids,
24:07
Speaker 1: or my youngest will be going into the fourth grade,
24:10
Speaker 1: and I cannot imagine I a better point. I don't
24:15
Speaker 1: want to imagine it. We know exactly, and I mean exactly,
24:20
Speaker 1: how to prevent these things from happening. We just simply
24:23
Speaker 1: don't do it. Let's start with something that is just
24:26
Speaker 1: so basic, so axiomatic. To secure. You mentioned secure, You
24:30
Speaker 1: mentioned points of entry. How about making it You can't
24:34
Speaker 1: make it impossible to force into it anywhere, but you
24:37
Speaker 1: can make it extremely difficult. Apparently the shooter engaged police
24:41
Speaker 1: officers outside the school and was still able to gain entry. Therefore,
24:47
Speaker 1: it is clearly easier, or was easier, for him to
24:51
Speaker 1: gain entry to that school than it was to enter
24:53
Speaker 1: a jewelry store in Brooklyn, New York. You have to
24:57
Speaker 1: make it physical security first. Then you talk about your drills,
25:02
Speaker 1: your preparation, your training, perhaps arm guards and I have
25:04
Speaker 1: a lot of great ideas, you know, we do. We
25:06
Speaker 1: do assessments, you know, at Global all the time. But
25:09
Speaker 1: the first step, if you're a parent listening to this show,
25:12
Speaker 1: demand that your school proved to you that someone could
25:16
Speaker 1: not get in the way this mystery and got into
25:18
Speaker 1: that school. And how, David do you think you got in? Well,
25:21
Speaker 1: that's one thing to haven't identified yet. I mean, I
25:23
Speaker 1: am I'm praying it wasn't simply an open door or
25:28
Speaker 1: an unlocked door, because I know I live about four
25:31
Speaker 1: hours from a little less than four hours from from Welby,
25:35
Speaker 1: and I've been out there and often communities like that
25:39
Speaker 1: where everyone knows everyone else. And by the way, those
25:41
Speaker 1: police officers responding to the scene. They probably had children
25:44
Speaker 1: in that school, if you can imagine that, that horror.
25:46
Speaker 1: But I don't know the culture there. It was just
25:51
Speaker 1: simply simply an unlocked door, or it was someone who
25:53
Speaker 1: just buzzed in, or if he was able to just
25:56
Speaker 1: fire through the glass and get in that way, that
25:58
Speaker 1: should be You should not be able to force entry
26:01
Speaker 1: without a determined effort using tools or other methods. And
26:05
Speaker 1: it's not hard to do and it's not expensive to do.
26:08
Speaker 1: Why have we not done that? That's the question that
26:11
Speaker 1: everyone needs to ask themselves. It's not a matter of
26:13
Speaker 1: putting arm guards in every school. Nice nice to have
26:16
Speaker 1: that ability, but financially many districts can't. But we certainly
26:19
Speaker 1: can lock the damn door. Well, put lock the damn door.
26:25
Speaker 1: I mean, you're right. Every time I look at where
26:29
Speaker 1: the twins may go to school, I check out security first.
26:34
Speaker 1: I deal with everything else after that. With m Kathleen
26:37
Speaker 1: Murphy family lawyer joining us at North Carolina at NC
26:41
Speaker 1: Domestic Law dot com. Jump in, Kathleen. It's very difficult
26:45
Speaker 1: for me to jump in after listening to David, because
26:48
Speaker 1: my first thought is not locking the doors, although we
26:51
Speaker 1: should do that, My first thought is, why are assault
26:56
Speaker 1: rifles even available in this day and a such that
27:01
Speaker 1: this eighteen year old could go get them and terrorize
27:05
Speaker 1: these poor families? What are we going to do about that?
27:09
Speaker 1: You know, it's such a huge, huge problem, and Congress
27:15
Speaker 1: is hearing about it. Take a listen to Senator Chris
27:19
Speaker 1: Murphy begging on the floor of our Congress, what are
27:25
Speaker 1: we doing? Why are you here? If not to solve
27:35
Speaker 1: as this? This isn't inevitable. These kids weren't unlucky. This
27:46
Speaker 1: only happens in this country and nowhere else, Nowhere else
27:51
Speaker 1: to little kids go to school thinking that they might
27:54
Speaker 1: be shot that day. Nowhere else do parents have to
27:58
Speaker 1: talk to their kids as I have had to do
28:00
Speaker 1: about why they got locked into a bathroom and told
28:03
Speaker 1: to be quiet for five minutes just in case a
28:05
Speaker 1: bad man entered that building. Nowhere else does that happen
28:08
Speaker 1: except here in the United States of America. And it
28:10
Speaker 1: is a choice. It is our choice to let it continue.
28:21
Speaker 1: What are we doing now? Listen to our cut eighteen
28:26
Speaker 1: Essie literally begs, Sandy Hook will never ever be the same.
28:30
Speaker 1: This community in Texas will never ever be the same.
28:33
Speaker 1: Why why are we here? If not to try to
28:38
Speaker 1: make sure that fewer schools and fewer communities go through
28:43
Speaker 1: what Sandy Hook has gone through, what Uvaldi is going through.
28:47
Speaker 1: Our heart is breaking for these families. Every ounce of
28:52
Speaker 1: love and thoughts and prayers we can send, we are sending.
29:00
Speaker 1: But I'm here on this floor to beg, to literally
29:05
Speaker 1: get down on my hands and knees and beg my
29:08
Speaker 1: colleagues find a path forward here, work with us to
29:16
Speaker 1: find a way to pass laws that make this less likely,
29:21
Speaker 1: and talk about salt being rubbed into the wounds. Take
29:27
Speaker 1: a listen to our cut fifteen. This is Fred Getenberg.
29:32
Speaker 1: He is the father of the Parkland victim Jamie Gutenberg
29:37
Speaker 1: speaking to MSNBC. But I'm shaking, but I like to
29:44
Speaker 1: tell them all to go f off because what they did,
29:49
Speaker 1: what they do, the way they politicize guns and violence,
29:56
Speaker 1: led us to this day where and I don't know
29:59
Speaker 1: what the latest number is, I think we have fourteen
30:02
Speaker 1: dead parents, loved ones who their world is spinning, who
30:11
Speaker 1: right now have to think, how am I going to
30:13
Speaker 1: plan a funeral? Who right now have to think what
30:17
Speaker 1: kind of casket? Who right now have to think all
30:21
Speaker 1: I did was sent them to school and I have
30:26
Speaker 1: to plan their funeral and I have to write a eulogy.
30:32
Speaker 1: I have to comfort those who I love, my other children,
30:35
Speaker 1: my spouse, my friends, my neighbors. I have to figure
30:42
Speaker 1: out how to go forward. I'll be honest to call
30:45
Speaker 1: it took me a good solid twenty four hours before
30:48
Speaker 1: my world stopped spinning to the point where I really
30:52
Speaker 1: kind of grasp what was happening. And another Parkland shooting parent,
30:59
Speaker 1: the parent of Joaquin, all of our business Manuel, all
31:02
Speaker 1: of our speaking in our cut fourteen lessen. If people
31:06
Speaker 1: were dead, at least I will have a reason to
31:08
Speaker 1: understand what's going on. It's worse and death. It's about money,
31:12
Speaker 1: it's about interest, it's about power. Our politicians or House
31:16
Speaker 1: of Congress and sending they do nothing after this, then
31:21
Speaker 1: they're somehow outside of the equation of probably getting shot
31:28
Speaker 1: or their kids. But you know what, it's going to
31:31
Speaker 1: take more kids dying, or maybe they won't react even
31:36
Speaker 1: with more kids dying. It's not only been five years,
31:40
Speaker 1: it's been more than two hundred and fifty thousand victims
31:42
Speaker 1: of gun violence since my son, Joaquin, my beautiful son, Joaquin,
31:47
Speaker 1: my innocent son, Joaquin was shot four times to the
31:50
Speaker 1: night of fifteen and today we saw how an eighteen
31:55
Speaker 1: year old in Texas I was able to carry a
31:59
Speaker 1: web and kill kids inside their school. Shame on any politician, corporation, celebrity,
32:07
Speaker 1: all those celebrities that came out four years ago. Where
32:10
Speaker 1: are you today? Where are you now today? Because I'm
32:14
Speaker 1: still here joining me for former senior special agent with
32:33
Speaker 1: the d E a CEO Global Security Group and Active
32:37
Speaker 1: Shooter Response expert, describe for our viewers and listeners what
32:43
Speaker 1: is an AAR fifteen and they're fifteen? And I know
32:46
Speaker 1: the parlance is to call it in a Saul rifle,
32:48
Speaker 1: but that's not that's not correct. A Soaul rifle by definition,
32:52
Speaker 1: has the ability to go fully automatic, still still makes
32:55
Speaker 1: it affect is just more rapid firestill does not diminish
33:01
Speaker 1: the lethality of a fully semi automatic rifle in the
33:05
Speaker 1: hands of a violent individual like this. The AR fifteen
33:11
Speaker 1: is a basically the civilian version of the M sixteen
33:15
Speaker 1: rifle that was used in Vietnam. It is not fully automatical,
33:18
Speaker 1: though it can fire rapidly in a semi automatical fashion.
33:23
Speaker 1: The invariably the argument's going to come down to the
33:28
Speaker 1: gun itself, and whether we should allow this type of
33:30
Speaker 1: firearm to be to be purchased legally. I would suggest this.
33:36
Speaker 1: There's going to be heated debate on both sides of
33:40
Speaker 1: that issue. But one thing I think we all regardless
33:43
Speaker 1: of party, can agree on that we should make it
33:47
Speaker 1: incredibly difficult, if not outright impossible, for a person who
33:52
Speaker 1: is you, I'm going to go out. I don't need
33:54
Speaker 1: you to limb. I know the best experience. This individual,
33:58
Speaker 1: Ramos was known to police. I guarantee it. He was
34:01
Speaker 1: known to the schools, I guarantee it. He was known
34:04
Speaker 1: to the social media community, I guarantee it. And yet
34:07
Speaker 1: there is no mechanism by which we can stop someone
34:10
Speaker 1: like this who basically is announcing to the world I
34:13
Speaker 1: Am about to do something really horrific, and that person
34:16
Speaker 1: can still walk into a gun shop and purchase a
34:18
Speaker 1: weapon illegally. At least we can agree on this. People
34:22
Speaker 1: like that who are announcing their intention should be on
34:26
Speaker 1: some sort of list where they cannot act an additional scrutiny,
34:30
Speaker 1: and possibly just to preserve due process, but at least
34:33
Speaker 1: have some level of scrutiny to make sure that can
34:36
Speaker 1: happen well. You're right, and what I'm thinking of based
34:40
Speaker 1: on what you're saying, is not just a background check,
34:43
Speaker 1: but a social media check. I mean, look, employers do
34:47
Speaker 1: social media checks before they hire somebody. I do. I
34:51
Speaker 1: want to find out what their history is, not just
34:54
Speaker 1: what they're showing me at the time with the interview.
34:56
Speaker 1: I want to find out who they are and what
34:58
Speaker 1: face they present to other people. Because in this case,
35:03
Speaker 1: we now know that he actually bragged to a girl online.
35:09
Speaker 1: I'm going to tell you a little secret, he says,
35:11
Speaker 1: I'm about to and lays it out. He was known
35:15
Speaker 1: to police for numerous violent arguments with his mother, and
35:21
Speaker 1: she's no angel, apparently with drug problems of her own.
35:25
Speaker 1: But he was, as David Katz is stating, known to police,
35:31
Speaker 1: he bragged online. There's no question about it, as so
35:36
Speaker 1: many schools shooters do. Joe Scott Morgan, I want to
35:39
Speaker 1: hear your thoughts, you know, Nancy, I think that there
35:41
Speaker 1: was planning that went into this, and this is why
35:44
Speaker 1: I believe this. This fellow lived in this town, very
35:49
Speaker 1: small town, and his grandmother allegedly had worked at this location.
35:54
Speaker 1: What do we know about elementary schools, particularly when you're
35:56
Speaker 1: talking about case through four. When it gets to me
35:59
Speaker 1: about eleven thirty in the morning, people's guard goes down
36:03
Speaker 1: at that point, Why, well, you begin the lunch room cycle,
36:06
Speaker 1: and so you have to march these kids down the
36:09
Speaker 1: hallway in order to get them to the lunch where
36:12
Speaker 1: they can eat, and they eat and shifts. Essentially, he
36:14
Speaker 1: was probably aware of that, aware of the timing. I
36:18
Speaker 1: would think that at that point in time he would
36:21
Speaker 1: have known that that's a vulnerable time in which to
36:25
Speaker 1: enter the school. And why in elementary school. You know,
36:28
Speaker 1: he was allegedly a student at the high school in town,
36:33
Speaker 1: and word is is that he was upset over the
36:37
Speaker 1: fact that his friends had graduated and he had not
36:39
Speaker 1: graduated at the school. And so is he striking out
36:44
Speaker 1: at the community at large because he thinks that the
36:48
Speaker 1: youngest and the most helpless among us, he's going to
36:50
Speaker 1: go in and actually slaughter them. He went there with purpose, Nancy,
36:54
Speaker 1: And that goes to a bigger issue that is actually
36:57
Speaker 1: Karen's Baileywick. That goes to a bigger issue where this
37:00
Speaker 1: guy's got some serious psychopathology going on. The answer, Well,
37:03
Speaker 1: you may say serious, I believe he says psychopathology. But
37:07
Speaker 1: unless it rises to insanity. To hell with him? All right,
37:11
Speaker 1: that's just the deal. That's the lawn, and it's right
37:15
Speaker 1: jumping Karen start. Yeah, it's that. It's not the kind
37:18
Speaker 1: of psychopathology that you're thinking. I mean, these are people
37:22
Speaker 1: that don't have that kind of history of severnmental illness.
37:26
Speaker 1: They they are a grudge, just like what jo Scott
37:29
Speaker 1: said that everyone graduates but him. He piles insult and
37:34
Speaker 1: have the insult and he begins to feel rage, and
37:37
Speaker 1: it's very planned out. It's something that he knew he
37:41
Speaker 1: was going to do. Turns eighteen, gets those guns, knew
37:45
Speaker 1: where he was going, knew what he wanted to do.
37:47
Speaker 1: Because he joins this terrific brotherhood of killers who have
37:53
Speaker 1: decided that they're going to take their their rage out
37:57
Speaker 1: on innocent children. That's what happens, you know. Kathleen Murphy
38:01
Speaker 1: joining us out of North Carolina at NC Domestic Law
38:04
Speaker 1: dot com. We have been told that he had been
38:07
Speaker 1: bullied and made fun of because he was poor. All right,
38:11
Speaker 1: we were poor. I was poor. My mother was poor.
38:16
Speaker 1: She never had anything. They didn't make on their sewing machine.
38:19
Speaker 1: Long story short, what did he do? Did he go
38:22
Speaker 1: out and get a job to make money. What did
38:26
Speaker 1: he do? And listen to this. Kathleen Murphy, an Instagram
38:28
Speaker 1: friend of Ramo, said he sent photos of a receipt
38:32
Speaker 1: for the gun and from the gun manufacturer. We also
38:37
Speaker 1: know that he put photos of the firearm and the
38:41
Speaker 1: ammunition online. I just outreached Nancy, but you have to
38:45
Speaker 1: do this personal story. My son is in tenth grade.
38:49
Speaker 1: He was the only student in a fifteen hundred to
38:53
Speaker 1: two thousand student in high school that reported that there
38:58
Speaker 1: were guns in the men's bathroom and that the children
39:02
Speaker 1: were taking photos of these guns in the men's bathroom
39:06
Speaker 1: or the boys bathroom and sharing it among the other students.
39:10
Speaker 1: My kid left campus, called me immediately. We called the police.
39:15
Speaker 1: Those students are now out of the school. And the
39:18
Speaker 1: problem is that it's so close to home. Why are
39:21
Speaker 1: we working from the bottom up. Why don't we start
39:24
Speaker 1: from the top get rid of these kinds of guns,
39:29
Speaker 1: Because you and I both know looking at the psychopathology
39:33
Speaker 1: of each individual person before they get a gun, it's
39:36
Speaker 1: a joke, a joke. Well, let's address what you just said,
39:39
Speaker 1: David Cats. I can tell you why these guns are
39:42
Speaker 1: not going to be outlawed in the US, okay, because
39:46
Speaker 1: our Congress is paralyzed by one of the strongest lobbies
39:52
Speaker 1: in the world, and that is the gun lobby. So
39:56
Speaker 1: we're not going to get rid of the guns. So
39:58
Speaker 1: now what can we do? Why can't we Have you
40:01
Speaker 1: ever heard of a cooling off period? For instance, you
40:04
Speaker 1: just can't walk up and get a marriage license. It's
40:09
Speaker 1: not instantaneous. Why is it that there can't be a
40:16
Speaker 1: cooling off period from the time you apply for a
40:18
Speaker 1: gun to the time you get it. A social media check,
40:22
Speaker 1: a background a check. David Scats, what is your opinion
40:27
Speaker 1: on that. You're the active sheet or response expert. Well,
40:31
Speaker 1: you know, the first of faulty. Every time anyone buys
40:34
Speaker 1: a firearm you go through there, there's an FBI check.
40:38
Speaker 1: One must be performed. However, all that check will do
40:42
Speaker 1: a show whether you have a conviction or criminal a
40:45
Speaker 1: criminal offense that will that will preclude you from owning firearms, right,
40:50
Speaker 1: That's that's the one thing. But that doesn't show you if,
40:53
Speaker 1: by the way, the police have been call to your
40:55
Speaker 1: house thirty seven times because he's threatened violence against grandmother.
40:59
Speaker 1: So that doesn't call it doesn't have any any provision
41:02
Speaker 1: for tracking whether a school psychologist said this kid is
41:05
Speaker 1: out of his striking mind. It doesn't have any way
41:08
Speaker 1: figure out if your neighbors have called because you've done
41:11
Speaker 1: something else to create a level of concern with respect
41:15
Speaker 1: to that, and that what has to change, because look,
41:18
Speaker 1: I understand I'm probably on a different side of the
41:20
Speaker 1: argument with respect to firearms ownership than many several of
41:25
Speaker 1: us talking right now. Rather than just bang our heads together,
41:29
Speaker 1: why don't we say this, at least let's start here,
41:33
Speaker 1: at least let's pass something, because I always judge law
41:36
Speaker 1: for what people talking about legislation, would the lawyer you're
41:40
Speaker 1: suggesting have prevented this crime from occurring. That's a good
41:45
Speaker 1: place to start. What about it, Kathleen Murphy, I am
41:48
Speaker 1: saying that in North Carolina you have to wait a
41:51
Speaker 1: whole year just to be divorced. Why can't we wait
41:54
Speaker 1: a whole year and make sure we do a proper investigation?
41:57
Speaker 1: And David, I agree with everything that you. Why don't
42:00
Speaker 1: we start here because the reality of this issue, for
42:05
Speaker 1: as much as I am seeing it from a mother's perspective,
42:09
Speaker 1: from a lawyer's perspective, it's got to start somewhere. And
42:12
Speaker 1: these are good suggestions. Right now, our prayers are with
42:17
Speaker 1: the families of those who lost their children and the
42:21
Speaker 1: teachers that were killed, and yet another school shooting. Nancy
42:28
Speaker 1: Grace crime story signing off goodbye friend,