Latest / Stugotz and Company / Set 1: GIANNIS TRADED TO THE HEAT: Pat Riley Gets His Whale (w/ Tom Haberstroh)

Transcript

Set 1: GIANNIS TRADED TO THE HEAT: Pat Riley Gets His Whale (w/ Tom Haberstroh) · Stugotz and Company

0:00
Speaker 1: Yeah, that.
0:02
Speaker 2: Chuck Norris was chasing the Tyrannosaurus Rex.
0:05
Speaker 1: The rex was not chasing the jeep. Murray, Murray, you there.
0:10
Speaker 1: You love sandwiches. Huh, let's go to eighty. He was
0:14
Speaker 1: bo wow that Prime Time. Maybe I had a crush
0:18
Speaker 1: on Betty Rubbell.
0:19
Speaker 2: I honestly, until after the segment ended and we went
0:22
Speaker 2: to commercial break, had no idea that Jonathan Coachman was black.
0:25
Speaker 1: He caught them the game last night. Although they won
0:28
Speaker 1: the game, you're listening just to Gotten Company.
0:32
Speaker 2: So I woke up to a texta this morning from
0:34
Speaker 2: Taylor Hippolis telling.
0:35
Speaker 1: Me the news is broken. The Yannis deal is done.
0:38
Speaker 2: He sent it around twelve to twenty in the morning
0:40
Speaker 2: last night because he was up watching Carolina and the
0:43
Speaker 2: College Baseball World Series. They lost to Oklahoma, and the
0:48
Speaker 2: text read, Yannis deal done. He's coming to Miami, Taylor,
0:53
Speaker 2: I gotta tell you, I think you said this yesterday.
0:55
Speaker 2: As a Nick fan, I am enjoying just sitting back,
0:59
Speaker 2: holding up the l O'Brien trophy and watching every team
1:02
Speaker 2: make moves in an effort to keep up with the
1:04
Speaker 2: New York Knicks.
1:05
Speaker 3: What so, Stu, I'm happy for my heat fan friends,
1:10
Speaker 3: because everybody knows anytime you could trade half your roster
1:13
Speaker 3: away for a team that was a ten seed, for
1:16
Speaker 3: an aging superstar with a questionable injury history that hasn't
1:20
Speaker 3: won a playoff series now in four seasons, you do
1:23
Speaker 3: it every time.
1:25
Speaker 2: Yeah, there he is cocky nick fan who just won
1:29
Speaker 2: an NBA champion.
1:31
Speaker 1: Jim, I love it. I feel the same.
1:32
Speaker 3: What because I I really don't want to take anything
1:38
Speaker 3: away from Miami Heat today. This is this is the
1:41
Speaker 3: Miami Heats day, this is their fans day. I want
1:44
Speaker 3: them to be able to hang there. We got our
1:46
Speaker 3: whale banner because there were question marks around pat Riley's
1:50
Speaker 3: ability to get a whale that wasn't Lebron James who
1:53
Speaker 3: just came because Dwayne Wade was already here at this point.
1:57
Speaker 3: And to pat Riley's credit, everybody thought the Celtics offer
2:00
Speaker 3: was better because of Jalen Brown, but there was something
2:03
Speaker 3: about whatever the Miami Heat was offering that was more
2:06
Speaker 3: intriguing to Milwaukee.
2:09
Speaker 1: It's going to be interesting.
2:10
Speaker 2: We're gonna talk to Tom Habers Drow in just a
2:12
Speaker 2: second here, but it's going to be interesting.
2:14
Speaker 1: I feel like what Milwaukee just told everyone.
2:18
Speaker 2: Was that they don't think they can win with Jalen
2:21
Speaker 2: Brown as a number one, and Jalen Brown thinks as
2:24
Speaker 2: a number one, his teams could be very good and
2:28
Speaker 2: he has proof. I mean, the Celtics were without Jason
2:30
Speaker 2: Tatum for most of the season. Jalen Brown was of
2:33
Speaker 2: the MVP conversation, and Jalen Brown thinks he's a number one.
2:37
Speaker 2: Milwaukee does it, and so it's going to be interesting
2:40
Speaker 2: to see how the Celtics sets. I do believe this
2:43
Speaker 2: is the most interesting part of this equation. How did
2:46
Speaker 2: the Celtics salvage a relationship with Jalen Brown? And will
2:50
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown be open to the Celtics salvaging some sort
2:53
Speaker 2: of relationship with him?
2:54
Speaker 1: You know?
2:55
Speaker 3: Yes, Seams was saying that if you're the Boston Celtics,
2:59
Speaker 3: you have to get a deal done because you don't
3:01
Speaker 3: just put a player like Jalen Brown on the table.
3:04
Speaker 3: You can't put that toothpaste back in the tube. He
3:07
Speaker 3: can't just walk back into the building expect everything to
3:10
Speaker 3: be you know, Hokuna ma todd over there no no problems,
3:13
Speaker 3: no worries. And now they're coming out saying that there's
3:15
Speaker 3: expected to be a bidding war for Jalen Brown to
3:19
Speaker 3: still be moved from the Celtics, where it's like, okay,
3:22
Speaker 3: you have to you didn't get Giannis. What is Boston's
3:25
Speaker 3: fallback option to pair with Jason Tatum, because in theory
3:30
Speaker 3: a Jalen Brown Jason Tatum duo is still probably the
3:34
Speaker 3: best duo when healthy. In that Eastern.
3:36
Speaker 2: Conference, the Celtics are the favorites to win the NBA
3:39
Speaker 2: Championship next year.
3:41
Speaker 1: From the East.
3:42
Speaker 2: From the East, out of the East, they're the favorites
3:45
Speaker 2: to make it out of the East.
3:46
Speaker 1: Over the Knicks and over the Heat. The Heat moved
3:48
Speaker 1: up the third.
3:49
Speaker 2: In terms of odds, but the Celtics, as presently constructed
3:53
Speaker 2: with Jalen Brown, with Jason Tatum, they are the favorites
3:57
Speaker 2: to make it out of the East.
3:59
Speaker 1: I don't care. We have the Larry O'Brien trophy. I
4:02
Speaker 1: do not care.
4:03
Speaker 2: But it's gonna be interesting to see what Jalen Brown does.
4:05
Speaker 1: Listen, they can pat him two years.
4:07
Speaker 2: One hundred and forty five million dollars coming up in
4:10
Speaker 2: a couple of weeks here, you know, it's seventy million
4:13
Speaker 2: dollars a year. Tailor that can make any bad feelings
4:17
Speaker 2: you have about your organization go away pretty quickly.
4:20
Speaker 1: You know.
4:21
Speaker 3: The strangest thing in all of this was the Boston
4:23
Speaker 3: Celtics saying that they were unwilling to include Hugo Gonzalez
4:28
Speaker 3: in this Yiannish trade. Yeah, where we will trade you
4:31
Speaker 3: our finals MVP. We will trade you our two time
4:34
Speaker 3: All NBA selection in Jalen Brown. But where we are
4:38
Speaker 3: drawing the line is this guard who averaged four points
4:42
Speaker 3: per game in fourteen minutes per game last season, the
4:45
Speaker 3: guy who played nineteen minutes total in the first round
4:49
Speaker 3: series against Philadelphia and didn't score a single point in
4:53
Speaker 3: that series. I'm telling you right now, Stude, this is
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Speaker 3: one I'm bookmarking. Hugo Gonzales better turn into Bob Coozy
5:00
Speaker 3: in Boston the way that they're talking about it.
5:03
Speaker 2: Yeah, well, do you trust Brad Stevens that he will
5:05
Speaker 2: not Bob Kozy? But if he turns into a very
5:07
Speaker 2: good NBA player, do you trust Brad Stevens when it
5:10
Speaker 2: comes to that or no?
5:11
Speaker 1: No? So this feels like the Roles got you, Like,
5:14
Speaker 1: you're right, he.
5:14
Speaker 2: Needs to be something close to Bob Kozy, like a
5:17
Speaker 2: Celtic All time great for him not to be included
5:19
Speaker 2: in this trade.
5:21
Speaker 3: This feels like the roles got reversed between the Celtics
5:25
Speaker 3: and the Heat, where normally it's the Heat who are like, hey,
5:28
Speaker 3: we are not including Yakajonas in this trade because we
5:32
Speaker 3: think Yaka Jonas is going to be this great person
5:35
Speaker 3: and you're you're looking at him like yeah, but you're
5:37
Speaker 3: getting back Jannis Ontotokumpo. And now the Celtics the shoes
5:42
Speaker 3: kind of on the other foot, where the Celtics are
5:44
Speaker 3: the one saying, hey, no, we got Hugo Gonzauz. We
5:47
Speaker 3: like what we got in Hugo gonzaus to where we
5:49
Speaker 3: don't need potentially a top ten player, not a potentially
5:53
Speaker 3: a top ten player right now in the NBA and
5:56
Speaker 3: a future Hall of Famer in Giannis.
5:58
Speaker 2: Put it on the Paul Taylor, does Hugo Gonzalez need
6:01
Speaker 2: to be somewhere close to Bob Coosey when it's all
6:03
Speaker 2: said and done, And make sure, yous Tom Habershaw, I
6:08
Speaker 2: am telling you who's going to join us in a
6:09
Speaker 2: few minutes to tell us everything he knows about Hugo Gonzalez.
6:13
Speaker 3: Okay, it's gonna be interesting to just see how the
6:16
Speaker 3: Miami Heat fill out their roster now, because Windhorst reported
6:21
Speaker 3: that they're expected to lose Norman Powell, and all the
6:24
Speaker 3: initial graphics were like the year starting five is Davion Mitchell,
6:27
Speaker 3: Norman Powell, Andrew Wiggins, Giannis and bam. And now it
6:30
Speaker 3: doesn't look like Norman Powell is going to be in
6:32
Speaker 3: that equation.
6:34
Speaker 1: Stu.
6:34
Speaker 3: I was reading Barry Jackson's article at the Miami Herald,
6:37
Speaker 3: and he's running through scenarios and financials for the Miami Heat,
6:41
Speaker 3: trying to be trying to bring back Andrew Wiggins Norman
6:44
Speaker 3: Powell to round out this roster. Yeah, he's mentioning names
6:49
Speaker 3: the Heat could try to sign with the mid level exception,
6:51
Speaker 3: whether it's like Chris Middleton, Tim Hardaway, Junior Vusevich, Tobias Harris,
6:55
Speaker 3: Dean wad Kelly, youu Bray, Quentin Grimes, players in that range.
7:00
Speaker 3: Then in the middle of it, he drops the tease
7:03
Speaker 3: of maybe the decade in this article. Wow, the Heat
7:08
Speaker 3: could try to lure impending free agent Lebron James with
7:12
Speaker 3: its full mid level exception, but a James return is
7:16
Speaker 3: considered a long shot.
7:18
Speaker 1: What it sounds great? I mean it really does, you
7:25
Speaker 1: know what it rinks up desperation with the Jibs.
7:31
Speaker 2: Tom Abistrow next, he's an old friend Tomthefinder dot com
7:36
Speaker 2: on substack. He'll be part of Yahoo's draft coverage tonight.
7:40
Speaker 2: Tom Haberstrow is with us.
7:42
Speaker 1: Tom.
7:42
Speaker 2: How surprised were you that the Heat ended up getting
7:45
Speaker 2: Jannis and not the Boston Celtics.
7:48
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean, I think it says a lot about
7:50
Speaker 4: how the Milwaukee Bucks view Jalen Brown, doesn't it, you know,
7:53
Speaker 4: like the idea of him being the centerpiece of the
7:55
Speaker 4: Boston Celtics offer and they were like, no, we'd rather
7:57
Speaker 4: have Tyler hero And and the pick. This is what's
8:03
Speaker 4: crazy about what the Miami Heat just did. None of
8:06
Speaker 4: the players that they sent in that trade were top
8:09
Speaker 4: twelve picks. They turned basically in the first round like
8:13
Speaker 4: late lottery. Maybe Tyler hero Is the thirteenth pick, Yovich
8:17
Speaker 4: was the twenty seventh pick, Hakez Junior he was the
8:21
Speaker 4: eighteenth pick, khaleil Ware fifteenth pick. And they parlayed those
8:24
Speaker 4: guys into a two time MVP in his prime. And
8:27
Speaker 4: this is what the Miami he do. Stu Gott's like
8:29
Speaker 4: when we talk about their ability to turn trash into treasure.
8:33
Speaker 4: They do it better than anybody else. And they just
8:36
Speaker 4: got Yatis editor Kumpo, a top five MVP guy year
8:41
Speaker 4: in and year out, at a time in his career
8:43
Speaker 4: that people are saying, yeah, he's he's on the back
8:45
Speaker 4: nine of his career. He's on the wrong side of thirty.
8:47
Speaker 4: But we said the same thing about KG going to Boston,
8:50
Speaker 4: and the same thing about Jimmy Butler, and the same
8:52
Speaker 4: thing about Shaq coming to Miami, and time and time again,
8:55
Speaker 4: the Miami Heat do this. And I have no issues
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Speaker 4: about them putting three first round picks, even the number
9:01
Speaker 4: nine thirteen pick in this year's draft. To me, I
9:03
Speaker 4: think they win the deal. And I think Giannis and
9:06
Speaker 4: and Nkompo is good right now, great, right now enough
9:10
Speaker 4: to make this a deal that puts them at the
9:12
Speaker 4: top of the East alongside the New York Necks.
9:15
Speaker 2: So what do you say to the people, many of
9:17
Speaker 2: them Heat fans, by the way, who said pat Riley
9:20
Speaker 2: was not capable of getting this type of deal done anymore?
9:24
Speaker 4: Yeah, you funny, right, you can. You can say that
9:28
Speaker 4: until it happens, and we do this all the time
9:30
Speaker 4: with Pat Right is maybe you should ride off into
9:34
Speaker 4: the sunset, and it's time to hand the keys over
9:36
Speaker 4: Andy Ellisberg and Adam Simon and make sure that you
9:40
Speaker 4: know we don't get stuck in this run of going
9:43
Speaker 4: big game hunting and coming up getting skunked. And what
9:47
Speaker 4: we've seen here in this deal is that the Miami
9:49
Speaker 4: Heat we're able to parlay those assets, which I don't
9:53
Speaker 4: think are great, by the way, I don't think I
9:56
Speaker 4: don't think this is a haul that the Milwaukee Bucks
9:59
Speaker 4: are super happy about. Tyler Hero as good as he
10:03
Speaker 4: was a couple of years ago as an All Star.
10:06
Speaker 4: Without any of these guys on the floor, the Miami
10:09
Speaker 4: Heat blitz teams with Pel Larsen, with bam Adebayo and
10:15
Speaker 4: Andrew Wiggins, Davion Mitchell, Norm Powell. When those five guys
10:19
Speaker 4: were on the floors, two guys, they outscored opponents by
10:23
Speaker 4: about twenty points every one hundred possessions. None of the
10:26
Speaker 4: guys in the deal were on the floor, and they
10:29
Speaker 4: were still really good with those guys on the floor.
10:32
Speaker 4: I'm not saying that they were a finals contender with
10:34
Speaker 4: those guys, but when you talk about whether the Miami
10:37
Speaker 4: Heat can win with the Giannis and the rotating, the
10:42
Speaker 4: rotation that they have now. Absolutely, they went to the
10:46
Speaker 4: NBA Finals. We gave Vincent and Kendrick Nunn. They went
10:49
Speaker 4: to the NBA Finals with Duncan Robinson and Caleb Martin. Like,
10:53
Speaker 4: what are we talking about here? Like pat Riley, Eric Spolster,
10:56
Speaker 4: I do not doubt those two guys. Eric Spolsive is
10:59
Speaker 4: the coach a Team USA. And when he has a
11:01
Speaker 4: Team USA player, whether it's bam Adebayo and Janni Santa Kumpo,
11:05
Speaker 4: Lebron James, Dwayne Wade, Chris Bosh, you cannot tell me
11:10
Speaker 4: that the Miami Heat are not built for this. They
11:12
Speaker 4: do not care about draft picks. They care about guys
11:15
Speaker 4: like Giannis and Jimmy Butler and Lebron James, Dwayne Wade,
11:17
Speaker 4: Chris Bosh. And when they get those guys, they result
11:20
Speaker 4: in finals trips. And then here's the stat SU gotts.
11:23
Speaker 4: Since two thousand and four, basically in the Dwayne Wade era,
11:27
Speaker 4: the Miami Heat have reached the NBA Finals more times
11:29
Speaker 4: than any team in the NBA, and over that same
11:33
Speaker 4: time span, they've had the fewest first round picks and
11:36
Speaker 4: fewest top ten picks in the NBA. What does that
11:39
Speaker 4: tell you? It says FM picks man like mckel Bridges
11:42
Speaker 4: said it at the Finals. They the Miami Heat have
11:45
Speaker 4: been screaming it for decades, is that we don't care
11:49
Speaker 4: about top five or top ten picks. The top ten
11:52
Speaker 4: picks that they've gotten, it's Michael Beasley and Justice Winslow
11:57
Speaker 4: and they've created find those guys every every time out.
12:01
Speaker 4: So this is what the Miami Heat do. And to
12:03
Speaker 4: those who doubt their ability to turn Giannis Coopo and
12:06
Speaker 4: Bam Bade Bayo and Norm Powell into a championship contender,
12:09
Speaker 4: I would say their track record is pretty strong.
12:11
Speaker 2: They made it to the finals twice with Jimmy Butler
12:13
Speaker 2: as their number one. Period ended discussion.
12:16
Speaker 1: I mean.
12:18
Speaker 4: Yeah, and who is like they're two three best players
12:22
Speaker 4: on those team Like Caleb Martin. The Celtics fans are
12:26
Speaker 4: still having nightmares about that dude. And and this is
12:29
Speaker 4: what the task is for the Miami Heat is to
12:32
Speaker 4: find their Gabe Vincent, find their Caleb Martin, find their
12:36
Speaker 4: uh their next guys that are going to be able
12:38
Speaker 4: to rise above and be those those those title UH
12:42
Speaker 4: finals players that that they've done, They've turned Kyle Lowry
12:47
Speaker 4: at the end of his career, go on Drocatch at
12:49
Speaker 4: the end of his career. They continue to do this.
12:52
Speaker 4: And so when you're looking at All Stars Andrew Wiggins,
12:55
Speaker 4: Norm Powell, bam Oude Bio and put that around uh
12:58
Speaker 4: Janni Sanaa Coupo, I do you think that they're going
13:00
Speaker 4: to be right at the top of the East next
13:03
Speaker 4: year and for years to come.
13:04
Speaker 3: Tom, what do you think about the fit on the
13:06
Speaker 3: offensive end with Giannis and Bam Because Giannis has always
13:08
Speaker 3: been somebody who has played his best basketball and had
13:11
Speaker 3: his most success playing next to a stretch five and
13:15
Speaker 3: Bam out of Bio's three point volume went up this season,
13:17
Speaker 3: but his percentage went down.
13:20
Speaker 4: Yeah, I mean that's gonna be key, right is when
13:22
Speaker 4: you have Brook Lopez being Defensive Player of the Year
13:25
Speaker 4: Canada every year and also a knockdown shooter. That's when
13:29
Speaker 4: Giannis has been at his best. And so it I
13:32
Speaker 4: think the looks that Bam is gonna get with Giannis
13:35
Speaker 4: on the team are gonna be a lot more wide
13:37
Speaker 4: open shots. And Eric sposed to redid completely revolutionize the
13:43
Speaker 4: offense last year where it was continual pace in space,
13:47
Speaker 4: where they were just moving around constantly to try to
13:49
Speaker 4: get open shots. They did that because they didn't have
13:53
Speaker 4: a Yannis or a Jokic or a Steph Curry or
13:57
Speaker 4: a Shay Gildris Alexander on the team that could use
13:59
Speaker 4: so much much of that gravity and that attention to
14:02
Speaker 4: get open shots. Now they got the guy, Giannis is
14:05
Speaker 4: going to get a lot more open shots standalone threes
14:08
Speaker 4: for Bam out of Bio. And you expect in today's
14:10
Speaker 4: NBA it's a lot harder to make a three pointer
14:12
Speaker 4: on the move than it is to get a catch
14:15
Speaker 4: and shoot three pointer. And I think you're going to
14:16
Speaker 4: get a lot more of those from Bam Outebaio. And
14:18
Speaker 4: now that he's playing next to Giannis en Atokompo.
14:21
Speaker 2: You brought it up earlier, and I do think this
14:23
Speaker 2: is the most interesting part of this entire deal. The
14:26
Speaker 2: Bucks are essentially telling you they don't think Jalen Brown
14:29
Speaker 2: is a number one, is something that can get them
14:31
Speaker 2: to the NBA finals. Like So that's interesting because Jalen
14:36
Speaker 2: Brown fancies himself as a number one obviously, and clearly,
14:39
Speaker 2: how did the Celtics salvage this relationship if indeed they
14:42
Speaker 2: want to Tom.
14:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, I think they've got to have a backup plan here,
14:46
Speaker 4: because I'm surprised that they went this far in the
14:49
Speaker 4: discussions with the Milwaukee Bucks and ended up not putting
14:52
Speaker 4: in every asset they could to get Giannis, because now
14:55
Speaker 4: what they have to do is damage control. Is Jalen
14:58
Speaker 4: Brown wants to be the number one guy, and with
15:00
Speaker 4: Jason Tatum in Boston, now that they've been basically at
15:03
Speaker 4: the one yard line with the Milwaukee Bucks to trade
15:06
Speaker 4: Jalen Brown, I imagine the reason why they didn't put
15:09
Speaker 4: everything into this deal is because they have another deal
15:14
Speaker 4: lined up to trade Jalen Brown. Otherwise this is going
15:18
Speaker 4: to be a really tough sell internally in that locker
15:20
Speaker 4: room to say, yeah, we were trying to trade you
15:23
Speaker 4: and you want to be the number one guy, but
15:25
Speaker 4: ultimately we think you're better as a number two. But
15:27
Speaker 4: think about it, guys, it's not just Jalen Brown. You're
15:30
Speaker 4: getting Jalen Brown at sixty sixty five million dollars a year,
15:35
Speaker 4: So you got to make sure if you're the team
15:38
Speaker 4: acquiring Jalen Brown, that you know that he's going to
15:40
Speaker 4: be an MVP candid every year. And I think his
15:42
Speaker 4: MVP case this year was overblown. I think that when
15:45
Speaker 4: you talk about the best players on the Boston Celtics,
15:48
Speaker 4: I would say that Jalen Brown was a part of
15:51
Speaker 4: a really good team. I wouldn't say he carried that
15:54
Speaker 4: Boston Celtics team. Actually, when you look at the numbers,
15:56
Speaker 4: they were better with him off the floor than they
15:58
Speaker 4: were when he was on the floor. And you're not
16:01
Speaker 4: not saying that he's making them worse. But if you're
16:04
Speaker 4: the Boston Celtics and Joe Missoula, I think you're okay
16:07
Speaker 4: with the idea of going and moving Jalen Brown to
16:09
Speaker 4: another team because I think you can say with Peyton
16:12
Speaker 4: Pritchard and Derek White and Jason Tatum on the floor
16:15
Speaker 4: last year, they were still really good with that they
16:18
Speaker 4: had a better record with Jalen Brown not playing than
16:21
Speaker 4: they did with him playing. And so I think if
16:23
Speaker 4: you're the Boston Celtics, maybe moving him for an asset
16:25
Speaker 4: or a player that fits better next to Jalen Brown,
16:28
Speaker 4: I mean, Jason Tatum, I think makes a lot of sense.
16:31
Speaker 3: Tom, You're a great basketball mine. I feel like you're
16:33
Speaker 3: always thinking outside the box where everybody else is kind
16:36
Speaker 3: of staying within the lines. But we're even you confused
16:40
Speaker 3: with the pr that was coming out of Hugo Gonzalez yesterday.
16:46
Speaker 1: That's what kept Boston from getting you honest, I.
16:48
Speaker 4: Mean wild, I mean what we're talking about in You Got,
16:54
Speaker 4: Gonzalez is a guy that if you looked at the
16:58
Speaker 4: top ten guys in minutes per game in the playoffs
17:02
Speaker 4: for that first round matchup, he didn't even he was
17:04
Speaker 4: not even in the top ten on a team that
17:08
Speaker 4: bowed out in the first round. So he's a great
17:12
Speaker 4: young role player that can He's very young, I mean
17:14
Speaker 4: nineteen years old. He's a guy that I think has
17:16
Speaker 4: a bright future in the league. But I don't know
17:20
Speaker 4: too many players who have not been part of a
17:22
Speaker 4: playoff rotation. When you talk about the hype that he
17:25
Speaker 4: had and yesterday's discussion and the speculation about him not
17:29
Speaker 4: being put into the deal and that they were holding
17:31
Speaker 4: on to him, I think that maybe the Brad Stevens
17:34
Speaker 4: and the Boston Celtics were trying to call the Bucks
17:38
Speaker 4: bluff here and saying, look, you didn't trade, you didn't
17:42
Speaker 4: trade Miami Heat got didn't get Damian Lillard from the
17:48
Speaker 4: Blazers a few years ago, And maybe they're just using
17:52
Speaker 4: the Miami Heat as a stalking horse here and just
17:55
Speaker 4: as leverage in the talks, and you're not going to
17:57
Speaker 4: actually trade yan As to the Miami Heat. And then
17:59
Speaker 4: they did. So Boston's got some work to do and
18:02
Speaker 4: we got the draft tonight, and I really think that
18:05
Speaker 4: you're going to see another move for Jalen Brown in
18:07
Speaker 4: the Boston Celtics here because they got a pivot.
18:10
Speaker 2: Taylor thinks Ugo Gonzalez has to turn into something close
18:13
Speaker 2: to Bob Coosey.
18:13
Speaker 1: Do you agree?
18:14
Speaker 4: I mean, I love that the idea that like, uh
18:20
Speaker 4: Ugo Gonzalez is now the French the face of the franchise.
18:23
Speaker 4: Wouldn't it be great if the Boston Celtics, like on
18:26
Speaker 4: every of the season ticket packages, like they just blurred
18:29
Speaker 4: out Jalen Brown and now just put Yugo Gonzalez is
18:32
Speaker 4: the face of the franchise, because like it would be
18:35
Speaker 4: an amazing turn of events if if he did pan
18:38
Speaker 4: out to be a great Boston Celtic. But he kinda
18:41
Speaker 4: now that he's attached to this trade forever, you got
18:44
Speaker 4: to imagine that he's got a lot more pressure on
18:47
Speaker 4: him to be better than a not even a top.
18:49
Speaker 4: He didn't. I mean we had Baylor shireman and was
18:53
Speaker 4: it rot Yeah, Ron Harper Junior started Game seven for
18:56
Speaker 4: the Boston Celtics and uh and Ugo is not one
18:59
Speaker 4: of those guys, So it is. It's a crazy turn
19:02
Speaker 4: of events.
19:03
Speaker 2: What's funny about all of this is the Celtics, as
19:05
Speaker 2: presently constructed, are the favorites according to all the sports.
19:09
Speaker 1: Books to make it out of the East. So I'm wondering,
19:11
Speaker 1: is there.
19:12
Speaker 2: A cell job that Brad Stevens could do to Jalen
19:14
Speaker 2: Brown at this point and just say, hey, we're the favorites, man,
19:17
Speaker 2: we want a title.
19:17
Speaker 1: Let's do this.
19:18
Speaker 2: Let's run it back You and Tatum, No, you're saying no,
19:20
Speaker 2: that's done.
19:22
Speaker 4: Maybe maybe that happens because maybe the deals that they
19:25
Speaker 4: would be getting as a plan B or a backup
19:28
Speaker 4: here for Jalen Brown. I mean, I'm looking at someone
19:30
Speaker 4: like the Atlanta Hawks there where he's from a team
19:34
Speaker 4: that I think is hoping to be the class of
19:37
Speaker 4: the East now now that they've got this a great
19:42
Speaker 4: resurgence season last year and they took the New York
19:45
Speaker 4: Knicks further than any other team in that first round matchup.
19:48
Speaker 4: So I think if you're the Hawks, maybe you look
19:50
Speaker 4: at Jalen Brown as a piece to put them over
19:52
Speaker 4: the top. But the Boston Celtics right now have some
19:55
Speaker 4: work to do to try to maintain that locker with
19:59
Speaker 4: Jason Tatum and j Aalen Brown. That they've gone this
20:01
Speaker 4: far in the Janna sweepstakes to come up empty. This
20:04
Speaker 4: is the hardest thing in the NBA. Pat Riley and
20:07
Speaker 4: Miami Heat do this just about as good as anybody.
20:09
Speaker 4: We've seen Eric Spolster and Jimmy Butler go like toe
20:12
Speaker 4: to toe head to head on the floor in games,
20:16
Speaker 4: because ego management is the biggest task for any coach
20:19
Speaker 4: and GM in the game, and right now they got
20:21
Speaker 4: a lot of massaging of egos to do in Boston.
20:25
Speaker 3: Tom tim Reynolds from the Associated Press said that the
20:28
Speaker 3: Heat have been busy long before yesterday figuring out what
20:31
Speaker 3: shooters to put around Bam and Giannis. They have their targets.
20:35
Speaker 3: If you are Miami, who are you looking at to
20:38
Speaker 3: kind of fill out this roster with what you can
20:40
Speaker 3: do from a cap standpoint.
20:43
Speaker 4: Yeah, they're going to be able to find guys off
20:46
Speaker 4: the scrap heap and turn them into Max Strews's I mean,
20:48
Speaker 4: that's just what they do.
20:49
Speaker 1: This is what they do, yes, right, Yes.
20:51
Speaker 4: I mean you look at Larson, you look at Max Strews,
20:53
Speaker 4: you look at Duncan Robinson. None of them were first
20:56
Speaker 4: round picks. And I think you're gonna You're certainly going
21:00
Speaker 4: to try to go and get a big name player
21:03
Speaker 4: or someone who's able to be, you know, the mid
21:06
Speaker 4: level exception caliber player. But I think that's the wrong question.
21:10
Speaker 4: I think Miami Heat need to need to look at
21:12
Speaker 4: what they have internally and trust Eric Spolstra and the
21:15
Speaker 4: front and the front office to find the next guy,
21:18
Speaker 4: the next diamond in the rough.
21:20
Speaker 1: And the Gozales, right, the next.
21:24
Speaker 4: Ugo Gonzalez would be would be fantastic, But obviously I
21:28
Speaker 4: think you'd rather have Giannis ended Atkoopo. And I think, look, guys,
21:32
Speaker 4: this isn't gonna This isn't the Miami Heat aren't gonna
21:34
Speaker 4: win the championship with this roster right now. They need
21:37
Speaker 4: still need to do some work and it's going to
21:39
Speaker 4: be tough to get Bam out of Bayo in the
21:41
Speaker 4: half court with Giannis ended Cooper with enough shooting around them.
21:44
Speaker 4: But the expectation is as long as you got Giannis
21:49
Speaker 4: and Bam and Norm Powell, who's one of the elite
21:51
Speaker 4: shooters in the NBA. David al Mitchell another example of
21:55
Speaker 4: a Miami Heat guy that just busts his ass defensively
21:58
Speaker 4: and is able to be I mean, what he what
21:59
Speaker 4: he did in that play in game, and I know
22:01
Speaker 4: I'm talking about the hallowed play in game in Charlotte
22:04
Speaker 4: last year, but Davion Mitchell was awesome and right up
22:07
Speaker 4: until the end of that game, and I was there
22:10
Speaker 4: for that. I was in Charlotte for that game. And
22:12
Speaker 4: to see Davion Mitchell play as well as he did
22:14
Speaker 4: and then lose it on that last second shot, it's heartbreaking.
22:16
Speaker 4: But ultimately I think those are the guys that the
22:18
Speaker 4: Miami Heat are going to target. Is cast off from
22:21
Speaker 4: organizations like the Sacramento Kings and say hey, come on
22:24
Speaker 4: over here and we'll turn you into a playoff contender
22:28
Speaker 4: and get you some money on your next deal or
22:30
Speaker 4: potentially with us. And I think when you're seeing the
22:34
Speaker 4: Miami Heat go and round out this rotation, it's not
22:37
Speaker 4: I don't think it's going to be a frontline and
22:40
Speaker 4: you know, big name player and that's just not what
22:42
Speaker 4: Eric's It's crazy. They've had fourteen first round picks since
22:46
Speaker 4: two thousand and four, and that's less than half of
22:49
Speaker 4: what OKC and Boston have. I mean, it's just they
22:52
Speaker 4: don't believe in the draft and they will find guys
22:54
Speaker 4: off the scrap heap.
22:55
Speaker 2: They're the Rams of the NBA. They are You're right, yes,
22:59
Speaker 2: or already.
23:00
Speaker 4: The Rams are the Heat of the NFL. Which one
23:03
Speaker 4: would you say?
23:03
Speaker 1: That's it? Right? That's a good question. I mean the
23:06
Speaker 1: Rams have had more recent success.
23:07
Speaker 2: So you know, Barry Jackson was in his basement the
23:13
Speaker 2: entire evening, which is a lab okay, it's a lamb
23:15
Speaker 2: for cooking up hot takes, and Barry Jackson said, you
23:18
Speaker 2: can't rule out Lebron James coming back to the Heat.
23:21
Speaker 4: What do you think, Yeah, I wouldn't rule out anything.
23:23
Speaker 4: With pat Riley Lebron and all that, he kept the
23:26
Speaker 4: key underneath the matt. I remember that, and he says,
23:30
Speaker 4: you know, Lebron has always done the unconventional thing when
23:34
Speaker 4: it comes to these big moments in his career. You
23:37
Speaker 4: and I both know how our careers changed once Lebron
23:40
Speaker 4: James went to Miami and then how many careers change
23:43
Speaker 4: when he went back to Cleveland and then to LA.
23:46
Speaker 4: I've always I've always said that Lebron retiring in Cleveland,
23:50
Speaker 4: I don't think we can close the door on that
23:52
Speaker 4: and having Bronni James retire, not retire, but go for
23:56
Speaker 4: the retirement of Lebron James back home in Cleveland. But
23:59
Speaker 4: now the Miami Heat have Giannis ended Akompo and bam
24:03
Speaker 4: Adebayo and a big you know, hold to fill in
24:06
Speaker 4: terms of championship experience, going in and trying to win
24:10
Speaker 4: a championship with a guy who can get downhill and
24:12
Speaker 4: have that that leadership. Lebron could be the guy. I
24:18
Speaker 4: just it would be. It would be a lot for
24:19
Speaker 4: him to leave LA to go across the country again
24:22
Speaker 4: to do it one last time in Miami. But ma'am,
24:25
Speaker 4: that would be Would I have to go back and
24:28
Speaker 4: do the Miami Heat index again? If Lebron I think so?
24:30
Speaker 2: Yes, Yes, well, gladly have you back. You can live
24:32
Speaker 2: with me if you want. It's okay, let's do it.
24:36
Speaker 1: How I miss you, buddy. That would be fantastic. Yes.
24:41
Speaker 3: Outside of the Yannis trade, I was I was surprised
24:44
Speaker 3: yesterday when I saw Julius Randall get traded to the
24:47
Speaker 3: Nets where Randall and the Wolf's twenty eighth pick are
24:52
Speaker 3: going to Brooklyn and all that's going back to Minnesota
24:55
Speaker 3: is thirty three.
24:57
Speaker 4: Were you surprised by that return? Yikes? Yes, you know,
25:01
Speaker 4: like the A Rod and the organization, they are just
25:05
Speaker 4: so cheap right now that they're trying to figure out
25:07
Speaker 4: ways to get under the tax or under the aprons,
25:11
Speaker 4: to figure out a way. They got Anthony Edwards on
25:14
Speaker 4: their team, and they're making cost saving moves, trading Karl
25:17
Speaker 4: Anthony Towns because they didn't want to pay his contract
25:19
Speaker 4: to the New York Knicks, and now basically trading Julius
25:23
Speaker 4: Rannold for nothing in a salary dump so that they
25:25
Speaker 4: can give Iota Sumu a solid deal to round out
25:29
Speaker 4: the rotation. This is the tough thing about the NBA
25:32
Speaker 4: is when you got a guy like Anthony Edwards, you
25:35
Speaker 4: don't make cost saving moves to duck the tax or
25:37
Speaker 4: duck the aprons. You try to make sure that you
25:40
Speaker 4: can build a champion championship contender before they get restless
25:44
Speaker 4: and say like this isn't it. So that's what's at
25:46
Speaker 4: stake for the Minnesota Timberwolves. Is you basically had Karl
25:50
Speaker 4: Anthony Towns and a bright young core, and now they've
25:54
Speaker 4: they've parlayed that into cap space, and they don't have
25:57
Speaker 4: actionable cap space. It's not like they can go out
26:00
Speaker 4: and get Austin Reeves right now or any other of
26:02
Speaker 4: the top free agents. They're in a tough spot right now,
26:05
Speaker 4: and Dissumer was great for them in the postseason, but
26:08
Speaker 4: they're really searching right now to find their number two
26:10
Speaker 4: next to Anthony Edwards.
26:12
Speaker 2: He's not going to go next, is he? Anthony Edwards?
26:14
Speaker 2: Is that could he possibly go?
26:16
Speaker 1: Trying to get rid of him?
26:17
Speaker 4: You're trying to get me to say it, aren't you.
26:20
Speaker 1: I know, I'm trying to get you to say a thing, Tom, Yeah, yeah, yeah, No.
26:23
Speaker 4: I think that he's I think a year away from
26:27
Speaker 4: that having a real conversation about that. Likely if the
26:29
Speaker 4: Minnesota Timberwolves, if they're in the middle of the pack
26:33
Speaker 4: in the West or you know, in the play in
26:35
Speaker 4: this year, then we can have that conversation at the
26:37
Speaker 4: trade deadline. But the way that Anthony Edwards is and
26:40
Speaker 4: you have Rudy Gobert, who's out still an outstanding defensive player,
26:45
Speaker 4: Jada McDaniels is an up and coming wing. But man,
26:47
Speaker 4: they've got to figure this out in the next year
26:49
Speaker 4: or so, because that question that you just asked me
26:53
Speaker 4: gets a lot spicier. If they're a first round out
26:55
Speaker 4: next year.
26:56
Speaker 1: We'll get you out of here in just a second.
26:57
Speaker 1: I know it's a busy day.
26:58
Speaker 2: This is such a fascinating fast any trade. Would you
27:02
Speaker 2: rather have Tatum and Brown or Bam.
27:05
Speaker 4: And Jannis Oh, Bam and Jannis Uh? I think I
27:10
Speaker 4: think Jannis is a top twenty player all time. I
27:13
Speaker 4: wouldn't say Jason Tatum and Jalen Brown are BAM out
27:16
Speaker 4: of Bio is an elite defensive guy who can shoot threes,
27:21
Speaker 4: not at a high rate. But if you're gonna build
27:22
Speaker 4: a guy who fits next to Jannis Endadokumpo, it looks
27:26
Speaker 4: a lot like bam Adebayo. It's not perfect, but I
27:29
Speaker 4: would say if you have those two guys two way play,
27:33
Speaker 4: I like that better than what Jason Tatum and Jaylen
27:35
Speaker 4: Brown have been and I think they're uh. They're redundant
27:39
Speaker 4: in ways that bam Adebayo and Jannis da Dakumpo. I'd
27:42
Speaker 4: rather have guys who just dominate the paint on both
27:45
Speaker 4: ends of the floor than Jason Tatum and Jylen Brown
27:47
Speaker 4: to do it from the perimeter.
27:49
Speaker 3: So now, Jason Tatum and Jaylen Brown leave Tom, Jalen
27:52
Speaker 3: Brunton and Karl Anthony Towns walk in. Which duo would
27:55
Speaker 3: you rather have?
27:57
Speaker 2: Uh?
27:57
Speaker 1: Love that?
27:59
Speaker 2: Which do the Knicks duo or the Tom I need
28:02
Speaker 2: to understand this. I never thought you and I would
28:03
Speaker 2: be having this conversation. But me and Taylor, as you know,
28:06
Speaker 2: are diehard Nick fans. And the fact that we get
28:09
Speaker 2: to sit back for an offseason and watch all the
28:12
Speaker 2: teams do things that make crazy, desperate moves in an
28:15
Speaker 2: effort to keep up with the New York Knicks.
28:18
Speaker 1: We are having a day right now.
28:21
Speaker 4: It's wild, Like the Miami Heat just got Yannis and
28:24
Speaker 4: we're like, ah, is that good enough to beat the Knicks?
28:26
Speaker 1: Yes?
28:29
Speaker 4: Crazy, it is wild.
28:32
Speaker 1: I mean I've stuck around long enough. Yeah.
28:35
Speaker 4: Here's my favorite stat here is Jalen Brunson had more
28:39
Speaker 4: a higher percentage of his clutch points coming from his team. So, like,
28:42
Speaker 4: when you look at Jalen Brunson and how good he
28:44
Speaker 4: was in the clutch of this postseason, he had the
28:47
Speaker 4: highest percentage of his team's clutch points since Michael Jordan
28:50
Speaker 4: in nineteen ninety eight. Crazy like clutch performance in the postseason.
28:55
Speaker 4: Is a guy that went in the second round and
28:57
Speaker 4: when anybody could have had him in free agency, and
29:00
Speaker 4: the Knicks were like, we'll give him one hundred million
29:01
Speaker 4: dollars and then they turned him into the Finals MVP.
29:06
Speaker 4: But here's the crazy part. You know, had zero clutch
29:09
Speaker 4: points in the entire postseason for the Knicks. Carl An
29:14
Speaker 4: Kat Think about that. He didn't score a single point
29:18
Speaker 4: in that magical postseason run in the final five minutes
29:21
Speaker 4: game without within five and it didn't matter because they
29:24
Speaker 4: had Jalen Brunson. So yeah, the fact that they have
29:26
Speaker 4: those two guys going into next year, yeah uh and
29:28
Speaker 4: they fit the pieces around and og. It's incredible. Yeah,
29:34
Speaker 4: you guys, you guys should be feeling great tonight.
29:35
Speaker 2: Oh we are, yes, watching pat Riley be desperate trying
29:38
Speaker 2: to keep up with the Knicks.
29:39
Speaker 1: I never thought i'd see.
29:41
Speaker 4: This, oh man. I mean the fact that pat Riley
29:43
Speaker 4: right now just got Yannis over the Celtics. You know
29:46
Speaker 4: how much that means to him. Like it's not just
29:48
Speaker 4: that he got Yannis. It's that he got it away
29:50
Speaker 4: from from the Boston Celtics. And yeah, Danny Angel isn't
29:52
Speaker 4: there anymore, and we were there when uh when uh
29:57
Speaker 4: was it?
29:57
Speaker 2: Uh?
29:58
Speaker 4: Donovan? Tim Donovan like gave out a press release, a
30:01
Speaker 4: profanity lace press release between pat Riley and Danny Ainge.
30:06
Speaker 4: Which is one of the great stories of all time
30:08
Speaker 4: is that an NBA organization basically said get the f
30:12
Speaker 4: out of here to another organization on the record in
30:16
Speaker 4: a press release against the Boston Celtics. And so the
30:19
Speaker 4: rivalry is strong. I think the NBA is in such
30:21
Speaker 4: a good position right now, and I think your New
30:23
Speaker 4: York Knicks are a big reason why. But it's also
30:25
Speaker 4: pat Riley getting Giannis over the Boston Celtics.
30:28
Speaker 1: I do feel good for Riley today.
30:29
Speaker 2: I do because a lot of people question whether or
30:31
Speaker 2: not he should retire, a lot of people said he
30:33
Speaker 2: can't get this done anymore. He got it done. What
30:35
Speaker 2: happens from here is on Spoe. But Riley got Spoe
30:38
Speaker 2: a player that spoke and turn in to an NBA
30:41
Speaker 2: Finals appearance or a champion Jimmy did with Jimmy Butler
30:45
Speaker 2: last thing here on the way out. So you expect
30:48
Speaker 2: Jalen Brown to be traded, you do before Tonight's draft,
30:52
Speaker 2: after tonight's draft, and if so, what teams have the
30:55
Speaker 2: capitol to get Jalen Brown from the Celtics. I'm thinking,
30:59
Speaker 2: okay see.
31:01
Speaker 4: I don't. I don't think okay see does that deal.
31:03
Speaker 4: They have the capital, certainly, But the team that has
31:06
Speaker 4: the want and the ability is the Houston Rockets. The
31:10
Speaker 4: Rockets have have really struggled to score last year. Kevin
31:13
Speaker 4: Durang obviously getting hurt in the postseason exposed that. But
31:17
Speaker 4: I think you could see the Houston Rockets, with their
31:19
Speaker 4: draft capital and young players and they're underachieving in the postseason.
31:23
Speaker 4: I think you could see them get into the Jalen
31:26
Speaker 4: Brown sweepstakes here. And I think it gets done in
31:28
Speaker 4: the next week or so. If they do decide to
31:30
Speaker 4: trade Jalen Brown and put him on the official trading block,
31:33
Speaker 4: I think you're going to see a deal get whether
31:34
Speaker 4: it's done tomorrow or the next day. I do think
31:37
Speaker 4: that comfree agency July one, I think Jalen Brown would
31:41
Speaker 4: be playing for a different team. I just don't know
31:42
Speaker 4: how they come back from this organizationally, and I do
31:45
Speaker 4: think they're going to be suitors for Jalen Brown.
31:47
Speaker 2: One hundred and forty million dollars helps though, I mean
31:50
Speaker 2: I could sue a lot, right, They can just give
31:52
Speaker 2: them that and just say we're sorry Jaalen.
31:55
Speaker 4: Yeah yeah, but man, it's it's the comments out of Jalen.
32:00
Speaker 4: But yeah, it's just it's hard. It's hard to see them,
32:03
Speaker 4: you know, mending those fences and coming back.
32:06
Speaker 2: And of course you're also right about Oklahoma City. They're
32:08
Speaker 2: holding out for Anthony Edwards.
32:11
Speaker 4: Oh yeah, wouldn't that be something? Or you know, like
32:14
Speaker 4: I I am such a guys. This is weird to say,
32:17
Speaker 4: and Taylor knows this. I hate how much I like
32:21
Speaker 4: Cam Boozer. I hate it. As a Wake Forest guy,
32:24
Speaker 4: it pains me to say that this duke player is
32:26
Speaker 4: so good that I would trade I would trade trade
32:30
Speaker 4: Chet Holmgren, I would trade Jalen Williams, I would trade
32:33
Speaker 4: all the draft picks to go get this guy in
32:35
Speaker 4: the draft. And they're sitting at twelve and seventeen I
32:37
Speaker 4: believe it is, and tonight's draft and if they can
32:39
Speaker 4: parlay Chet Holmgren and a couple of picks to go
32:42
Speaker 4: move up into the draft to get Camera Boozer. I
32:44
Speaker 4: think that he would be a perfect fit in Oka. See.
32:47
Speaker 4: So that's the thing I'm watching is not whether they
32:49
Speaker 4: go out and get Jalen Brown or Anthony Edwards. It's
32:53
Speaker 4: what if they get Cam Boozer in this draft? Yeah,
32:56
Speaker 4: I think that is that that has a huge potential
33:00
Speaker 4: And whoever gets Cambus is gonna be very happy. I
33:02
Speaker 4: would take him number one and not even think about it.
33:04
Speaker 2: Well, Tomdefinder dot com on substack, what are you doing
33:08
Speaker 2: with Yahoo tonight for the draft?
33:09
Speaker 4: Tom promoted we got a live show with Kevin O'Connor.
33:13
Speaker 4: Live show here in New York will be on for
33:15
Speaker 4: three and a half hours. I think it is that
33:17
Speaker 4: seems excessive, but I'm gonna be there for it all.
33:18
Speaker 4: And the recap pot with Kevin O'Connor tonight for the
33:22
Speaker 4: Yahoo Sports NBA Draft special, which you can watch alongside
33:25
Speaker 4: the NBA Draft, will be live.
33:27
Speaker 2: All right, buddy, We appreciate the time on a busy
33:29
Speaker 2: day for you. Go Nix and good luck with the
33:32
Speaker 2: draft tonight. Have fun, man, You gotta guys all right.
33:34
Speaker 2: I don't know why I said go next to you