Latest / Marci talks money (and life) / Hire a Theater Kid: The Power of Saying Yes and Creating Opportunities with Carol Lempert & Scotty Watson
Transcript
- Marci Grossman (00:06) Welcome to Marci Talks Money and Life. I am Money Marci and today is a doubly special episode because I am welcoming two guests. The episode was inspired by Josh Groban and the meme about hiring a theater kid because they can do anything. Carol Lempert started her career as a professional actress. She now helps leaders increase their executive presence by teaching them the skills actors use to have great stage and screen presence. A sought after leadership expert, Carol's insights have been featured in Forbes, the Financial Post, the National Post, and Reader's Digest. She also serves as a teaching fellow at Florida International University's Center for Leadership. Scottie Watson has been working in improv for over 30 years, starting with the National Touring Company. was seen as a disembodied head in the off-Broadway musical Walmartopia and served as an alternate for Bebe in Cirque du Soleil's Mystère. Scotty has done feature films with Ed Asner, Eric Stoltz, and Gerard Depardieu. On television, Scottie appeared in a series of commercials for the NYC TV market and has dressed up as David Crosby, a human heart, and Carmen Miranda. Okay. I want to start by establishing that you are both very much theater kids and adults, and that you have, and I don't want to say transitioned as much as expanded into other professional roles as well. Scotty Watson (01:23) Ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha there. Marci Grossman (01:38) And that's really the main part of the focus today because I want listeners to understand the breadth of skills you learn from participating in theater. This is expansive, not limiting. So welcome, Carol and Scotty. Scotty Watson (01:50) Yay, thanks for having us. I like the way you said that too, because you don't have to step out of the theater to also work in another area. You step out, you hop out, you hop back. I love that. Exactly, I love that. Carol Lempert (01:50) Thank you, Marci. Happy to be here. Marci Grossman (02:02) And sometimes you have your feet in both worlds. Okay, I'm going to start with Carol. You have a bachelor and master's degree. These are in communication with minors in theater, is that right? And education. So how did that evolve into your current position? Carol Lempert (02:08) shit! and education, yeah. in terms of running my own company and teaching executives about leadership presence. Marci Grossman (02:25) In terms of all the various things, I guess I should have put an S on the end of that. How did that evolve into your current positions? Scotty Watson (02:29) Heh heh Carol Lempert (02:32) So what I thought I would start with to answer that question, because you conjured up Josh Groban, for those of your listeners that aren't familiar with the quote, I looked it up so I thought that I would share it. So he says, hire a former theater kid. I don't care what your business is. It'll go better if you hire a former theater kid. You need somebody who can work on a deadline? Hire a theater kid. You need somebody to take a job in a pinch and act like they know what they're doing the whole time and do it on zero budget? Hire a theater kid. Scotty Watson (02:58) You Carol Lempert (02:59) Lump that you need checked out? Hire a doctor for that. When you need someone to cheer you up, when you're waiting for the results, hire a former theater kid. So that's Josh Groban, which is a little bit of an answer to your question. Scotty Watson (03:02) Ha ha ha ha ha! Carol Lempert (03:12) So as somebody that started doing theater in my senior year in high school, and then like, I love this and I loved singing, I was always in choir. I actually started, I went to Wayne State University for my bachelor's degree. I started in the music department and then I met someone who was doing musicals in the theater department and I started doing a lot of theater work as well. But after I graduated and then I was looking for work as an actor, you have to still pay your rent and I wasn't necessarily right away getting work as an actor. So I became a temp. And I realized that basically what Josh Groban says when you're working as a temp in other people's offices, the fact that you have been rigorously trained to learn quickly, to show up and do well, to take direction, to be able to get along with strangers because on the first day of rehearsal with your castmates, you don't know anybody, but you have to pretend like you're a team because on opening night, you're all going to have to do this thing together. All of those skills really came from being trained as an actor. And then I discovered later on, there was this moment where my brother Sheldon, had a friend who was having to give a presentation at work and the guy was freaking out. And Sheldon's like, I can crack open a beer for you and calm you down, but I can't help you with the presentation. But my sister's an actress, she can help. And so I went over there and I worked with this guy over the weekend to get him ready to do his presentation at work. And basically I rehearsed him the way you would rehearse a monologue for an audition and off he went to do the presentation and he said it went really well. you know, I did a favor for my brother Sheldon and his friend. And then a couple of months later, I got a phone call from a friend of that guy who said, you know, this guy now is considered high potential at the company because now he can give better presentations. Can you help me too? So that's when I realized that there's a pain point for people that work in corporations where they have to be able to give presentations and they have to be able to think on their feet when they're being asked questions in the middle of the presentation. And they have to be able to manage their anxiety when they have a one-on-one meeting with their boss. And these are all skills that I cultivated through the world of theater. And I thought, ⁓ this is much more fun than answering some guy's telephone on a temp job. So I took two years off my acting career and I went back to school to be certified as a coach, as a learning designer, and that's how it all started. So thanks for asking. Marci Grossman (05:22) Okay, that was pretty comprehensive. Yeah, I mean really no no no I know there's way more stories in here than that and we haven't even gotten to you Scotty. So while your bio doesn't mention it you ended up as the head of advertising and marketing for a pretty good organization in New York. So can you can you tell us about how you ended up there? Carol Lempert (05:25) Hahaha Scotty Watson (05:26) No more questions, class dismissed. Carol Lempert (05:28) I was. Scotty Watson (05:43) I did. Everything is saying 'yes' to it and then figuring it out afterwards. Everything that I've done has been, yeah, I'm pretty sure I can figure that out. Although, as I get older, I'm more clear about the fact that I am gonna have to figure it out and people seem confident in that. So I was running the improv part of a theater company in New York City and I helped them increase their board. They had a very small board of all artists, if you're a not-for-profit, in the arts. Please don't just have a board filled with your friends. Have a real board that will give money, get money, or get off the board. Doesn't necessarily have to be money, it can be materials. Boards need to be functional. So I did a campaign to increase their board, and I brought a banker on. This guy who was a vice president in one of the banks in New York City and a great guy and he said like if I'm gonna go on the board I want to take your improv class. Takes the improv class and he's good right just like right away phenomenal and I said you studied improv before he goes no and he goes wait a minute I think maybe I have. I think maybe being a banker is doing improv. And we connected just like that over the fact that everything is improv and improv is everything. And we became fast friends and he liked the way I promoted the theater company. He liked the way that I built the board for the theater company. And he asked me to, just as a consultant, will you come give your thoughts and insights into what they were doing in terms of marketing. So I went in and I did and the board, their board, which was a very functional board, said, we like it. And I said, okay, so there's the plan. Just do the plan. And they said, you want to do the plan? Because we don't want to do the plan. You do the plan. And so I ended up working for a not-for-profit financial institution for a number of years. So it's just saying, yeah, it's just yes. and making connections and enjoying meeting new people and clicking with people and sharing your thoughts and ideas. It's improv! Marci Grossman (07:54) Well, life is improv. I mean, I don't know about you, but I don't get a script every morning. Scotty Watson (07:55) Life is improv. Carol Lempert (07:58) Right. Scotty Watson (07:58) Wait, here's my script right now! Hello, Mousey, I agree! You don't get a script every morning, he said. Marci Grossman (08:05) Okay, we checked that off the list. Okay, good. So, Carol goes in to businesses, they hire you to talk to their executives and talk about their presence. And Scotty, you've gone into businesses and organizations to train, I don't know if it's the same execs or different levels of employees, whatever else, on improv. And you guys sometimes work together on that and you also had a comedy troupe. a number of years ago where you did both sketch and improv. it must be kind of nice when you get to work together again doing these things and bringing other people into it. Scotty Watson (08:40) It is, may I answer that? Because Carol often will do the presentation side and then I'll do the Q &A. Did I say that right? Did I say something off color? No, Q &A. What was in the script? I'll do the Q &A side so that we can work together sometimes. Marci Grossman (08:52) Check your notes! Check your notes! Carol Lempert (08:52) Non- Scotty Watson (09:00) Can I say the name of the city that we went to? Because I want to talk about the food. We went together to Memphis, Tennessee. And my god, I love catfish so much. Carol Lempert (09:04) Sure, I don't see why not. Scotty Watson (09:11) And we had a very rewarding and interesting experience in the workshop. And then immediately afterwards, I ate three different kinds of catfish over three nights. It's a fun time. So it was one of those rare treats where we got to work together. And I would like to do more of that, he said over on a podcast in public, see what she says. Carol Lempert (09:31) people. Marci Grossman (09:31) So guess I should make sure that I use that snip and broadcast it fully so people know that they really want to hire you guys as a duo, not just... Scotty Watson (09:41) Well, I want to see if Carol wants to do more. That's the thing. We'll see live on the air. Carol Lempert (09:45) We have to wrestle up some clients, anybody who's listening that thinks that you could have Scott and I come and help your participants practice difficult conversations. Scott shows up as being kind of a mean looking client or a mean looking boss and they can practice with no risk to their actual career because he's just an actor. Or if you want to do an improv workshop and practice thinking on your feet and then I'll help you debrief. That's a lot of the stuff that we do together. Scotty Watson (10:11) And all you have to do, if you're interested in this, is tell me what the big dish or food your city is known for. Carol Lempert (10:18) Yes. ⁓ Marci Grossman (10:19) Hahaha! Well, know, we'll go to food now. We're gonna come back to other things, but let's go to food because Scotty is a food guy. And that's the special and wonderful foods and that's the basic foods. Scotty is the guy who taught my family the importance of having sandwiches and carrying a sandwich with you so you're prepared. We have been stuck a couple of times Scotty Watson (10:23) Yeah Marci Grossman (10:42) where having a sandwich made all the difference. you know, tell us about your love of food and cooking and all of those things. Scotty Watson (10:53) yeah. So Howie Mandel is from Toronto, which is where I'm from. I'm a Toronto native. And when he was first breaking, I'm talking about all the way back when he had hair. And then before he became, I think, as germaphobic as he is now. He was being interviewed in a local talk show and what advice would you give a young comedian? And he said, get a bus pass. He says, you can't have a car, which I took to heart. I take public transit as much as I can. I love public transit. And I love figuring out public transit when I'm in a new city, by the way. So that's the other thing you can tell me about your city is how to get around. And he said, and pack a sandwich. Because at the time, sandwiches were a couple of bucks, but then I... then again a couple of bucks is a couple of bucks. And now, if I'm in an airport and I'm traveling, sandwich is 15 bucks. Am I crazy? I can make a sandwich for cheaper than 15 bucks and it becomes a habit. It's the same sandwich, but it's a $15 sandwich in the airport and it's a free sandwich if I pack it. So it just becomes economy that I use that money in my career. I don't use that money for a sandwich. Carol Lempert (12:04) And that's basically what you often you're talking to us about the arts right now, but your podcast is Marci Talks Money. So when you choose a career like the careers that we've chosen, there's no predictable income path. You're not getting a paycheck every week for the whole year. You might be getting a paycheck every week that you're in an eight month run of a show, but then at the ninth month, the show is over, you have to go get another show. So we both learned to assess what we were buying through the lens of, is this a want or is this a need? I need groceries. I need lunch. I need a sandwich. I want to replace my milk crates with a proper bookcase. So, you know, I live with milk crates as a bookcase until I was almost 40 years old because I needed groceries. So always pack a sandwich. Because not only are you always fed when you're hungry and you don't have to worry like where am going to find a place, you're saving money. Marci Grossman (12:52) Well, remember, it's Marci's Talks Money and Life, so it's also about the life things. So for us, it wasn't a matter of how much a sandwich cost. At the times we were trapped, we had picked up a picnic lunch when we were driving through, I think it was Yellowstone, when the buffalo decided to walk on the road, not across the road, the road. So we were stuck for about two hours. There wasn't a place. Carol Lempert (12:55) And light. Yeah. okay. No. Marci Grossman (13:18) to buy a sandwich. I am sure the people in that line around us would have paid us hundreds of dollars for the sandwiches we had, which we were not giving up. We wanted the sandwich. But it's just that being prepared for life happens. Another time we were trapped on a plane and sometimes they just can't board or unboard or take off or whatever and you're trapped and the stewardess aren't offering Scotty Watson (13:23) Ha ⁓ Marci Grossman (13:41) service at that point in time. So you have a sandwich or you don't have a sandwich. It's not a matter of whether you're willing to buy a sandwich. Not that I want to spend fifteen dollars for a two dollar sandwich, but even it's being prepared in life for whatever is going to happen. I have a sandwich in my pocket right now. ⁓ Scotty Watson (13:42) Mm-hmm. Carol Lempert (13:43) Right. That's Scotty Watson (14:00) And Carol Lempert (14:02) my morning breakfast sandwich. Scotty Watson (14:02) it's not like you're, it's not like you're Batman or anything, like you're prepared for every eventuality. You know you're gonna get hungry somewhere down the line. Marci Grossman (14:11) Right, and I don't carry a sandwich everywhere I go, but there are certain circumstances in life where you know has a better chance of being out of your control and you kind of prepare for those better because you can only improv yourself so far. That improv imaginary sandwich, you can make it look delicious to the audience, but you know it's not going to feed you or them. But ⁓ I like that we talked about Scotty Watson (14:20) Right. I like that. Carol Lempert (14:28) Yeah Scotty Watson (14:30) It's just looking sad. Marci Grossman (14:35) managing wants and needs because I think that's important and certainly as gig workers because whether it's being hired as an actor or being hired to coach people or whatever else, those are gig jobs. You might have 15 people want you for one day now and you might have a period of time where nobody wants you for whatever you offer and that's a challenge that a lot of people don't understand. ⁓ Carol Lempert (15:01) Yeah, Scott and I often talk about the fact that when you go to theater school, which we both did. They teach you how to be a very skilled actor. You have a lot of technique when you get a script, how are going to bring that character to life? They teach you to memorize a bunch of monologues so that you always have something that you can audition with. They get you ready for the work of being an actor. But nowhere in theater school did they say to us, once you graduate, you have become a solo creative entrepreneur. You have to go out and get work for yourself and you have to manage your own taxes and you often have to negotiate your own contracts. And so all of those skills, we were prepared to learn because being a theater kid means that you're prepared to learn all the time. But they didn't actually give us a playbook on what solo career was going to be like. So that was a learned skill over experience. Scotty Watson (15:49) Mm-hmm. I remember the first time I did a television commercial. I told my dad what I made just for the day. At the time, I think it was 700 bucks, which was a long, long, long time ago. for the shoot and then you get residuals that pay every three months for, it's a very complicated formula, there's things that I did 20 years ago that I still see a check for two or three dollars at a time coming in my way. Carol Lempert (16:12) I got a check last week for six dollars and twenty seven cents for an episode of Doc, this show in Canada that I filmed in 1999. So if you get a big part and you have a good agent and you negotiated well, your residuals might come later on, but sometimes it's twenty seven cents. Scotty Watson (16:17) Yep. Yep. So I tell my dad, he says, what did you make? I said, was $750, $700 somewhere in there for the shoot. And then I'll get residuals as time goes by. And my dad says, wow, you do one of those a week, you'll be OK. And I had to tell him, no, you do one of those maybe every three, four months. And this big chunk of money shows up. And you can't think of that as a paycheck. You've got to think of it as an Carol Lempert (16:46) if you're lucky. Scotty Watson (16:54) inheritance Marci Grossman (16:54) That's a great way to put that. People don't understand that there are careers, and there are even paycheck careers. I've dealt with salespeople over my accounting career that this year they make $50,000, next year they make $150,000, and the year after they make $50,000 again. So if they've got lifestyle creep, they're gonna have a problem that third year. Scotty Watson (17:05) ⁓ yeah. Mm-hmm. Carol Lempert (17:13) Yeah. Scotty Watson (17:19) Yeah. Marci Grossman (17:19) This brings me back to another of my favorite conversations, topics that Scotty's going to want in on. Google Sheets, spreadsheets. Carol Lempert (17:27) Hmm. Scotty Watson (17:28) I do love a good spreadsheet. I have dyscalculia. I am actually mortally afraid of mathematics. Doing any kind of math makes me uncomfortable and I sweat a little bit and spreadsheets save you from that because you drop a formula in there, you copy paste it down the row and math does itself. God, I love a spreadsheet. The other thing I like about a spreadsheet for a person in the arts is that That's how the normal people think. Like we think, creative spark, a spark, a spark, a spark. And I think like that, I absolutely do. But if you want to think like a business, spreadsheets are set up the way businesses think. So it can make you take your creative thoughts and put them into the little boxes that your accountant that the businesses that the government needs to see to understand your financial life. So just take a few minutes. It's free. Google's Google Sheets and just figure out a little bit about it. And I swear it'll make your life better. Brought to you by Google. Marci Grossman (18:32) Definitely. whether you have Microsoft and you have Excel or you use the Google Sheets that are available, the Google Docs and all of those, or LibreOffice is also another freeware out there. These all work similarly. You can even, if you save it in the right format or open it the right way, they transport from one program to the other. I love Scotty Watson (18:52) Yeah. Marci Grossman (18:56) spreadsheets. I mean, I'm an accountant. Spreadsheets are an amazing tool at every level of managing your finances. But I've got, yes, please do. Scotty Watson (19:04) can I add something about spreadsheets? Poor Carol, because I know Carol just sees spreadsheets as a necessary evil. I will use them for an improv set. because I can take my actors and pair one, two, three, four, five, six, one, three, two, four. You see what I'm like? So that everybody gets to work with everybody in different scenes. And I have automated that on a spreadsheet. So I whip up my phone and I open up Google Sheets and I put everybody's names in and the set list pops up. so that I play with Carol and then you play with Carol and then you and I play. It just happens for us. It doesn't matter the size. I can put 16 people up on that stage and you'll never see the same pairing twice because I've set up, set it all up ahead of time. So I use it in my creativity too. Marci Grossman (20:00) Well, but I mean, that's a great point is that tools can be used for many different things. Once you learn how to use a spreadsheet, there are things that other people would think to use it for that I'd never think to use it for, and it offers a lot of power. Scotty Watson (20:05) Yeah. Yeah, it does. Marci Grossman (20:16) We're gonna. Carol Lempert (20:16) There we go, we have to tell Google, hire a former theater kid. Scotty Watson (20:19) Good segue. Marci Grossman (20:20) Or or Libre or you know, yeah, spreadsheets are us. Carol Lempert (20:24) Yes. Marci Grossman (20:25) Have you used it to manage the dessert hierarchy? Scotty Watson (20:29) Hmm Marci Grossman (20:29) No. Oh, I gotta go back to the food theme. You know, it's part of the (and life). Carol Lempert (20:30) Back to the food theme. So tell them your dessert hierarchy. Scotty Watson (20:36) Well, we have a basic logic disconnect in that I think the top of the dessert hierarchy is fruit pies and Carol says that they are brownies. Cake, cake. Carol Lempert (20:47) Cake and brownies are way above pie on the dessert hierarchy. I'm sorry. Scotty Watson (20:52) So there's a basic disagreement there that even a spreadsheet can't solve. Carol Lempert (20:54) There you go. Marci Grossman (20:56) Well, I guess you each have to have your own spreadsheet on that. Scotty Watson (20:59) That is true. We'll use a pivot table. Marci Grossman (21:01) ⁓ I am much more open-minded. I like all desserts. Scotty Watson (21:05) Well, what's your favorite? Marci Grossman (21:06) You know, I am terrible about having favorites. There are so many different things to appreciate and so many different ways to appreciate them. There are times I might be in the mood for a fruit pie and there are times I need a brownie and that's all there is to it. So I don't have overall favorites. I have preferences at certain points in time. Carol Lempert (21:26) But over time, I've seen you're also good at having like taste-offs, like let's taste all the flavors of Peeps and let's taste all the flavors. Scotty Watson (21:26) Good answer. ⁓ Marci Grossman (21:31) Well, can't taste all the flavors of Peeps because I don't even know how many flavors of Peeps. Yeah, for a while it seemed they were putting out a lot of flavors and so we would taste them and some were good and some were what were you thinking? And there have been times where around Easter they have all the different companies now make their own little jelly eggs. So we'll taste them. can you guess? Carol Lempert (21:37) ⁓ okay. Scotty Watson (21:38) an infinite spreadsheet. Carol Lempert (21:53) Yep. Marci Grossman (21:55) which Easter eggs these are. They might be Starburst, they might be Skittles, they might be whatever, but all these different companies, Jolly Rancher, they all make their own eggs and they're all about the same size and they're all whatever. There is nothing healthy about them and you got to go really gentle because that's a lot of sugar all at once, your teeth are dissolving. If you go too crazy, you don't want to do that. Scotty Watson (21:59) Ugh. Carol Lempert (22:15) You're right. Marci Grossman (22:18) But it's interesting to see the take all these companies have on flavors because they're all coming from the perspective, well, we want it to taste like what our candy tastes like because that's what the people who like our candies are going to want. What's scary right now is the big flavor. It seems to be pickle and I love pickles and I love deep fried pickles, but I don't want a pickle milkshake. I don't want pickle potato chips. I don't want, Scotty Watson (22:22) Hmm. Ugh. Carol Lempert (22:41) ⁓ no. No. Marci Grossman (22:44) ice cream flavor. I can't even think of all the things that I've seen. Pickle flavored popcorn. The things I'm seeing out there but if you're not seeing it yet you're pretty soon going to be seeing the pumpkin flavored everything. Scotty Watson (22:56) I heard they're even making a pickle flavored pickle. Marci Grossman (22:59) No, no, that would be going too far. ⁓ Scotty Watson (23:01) Crazy. Carol Lempert (23:02) Little on the nose. Marci Grossman (23:04) so now we've narrowed in on Pickles. I want to broaden back out about the importance, especially in a gig-type work, of having a diverse client list, a diverse... whether it's offerings that you have or services that you can offer to keep a client coming back to you. What kind of things can you tell me about how you work within those? Carol Lempert (23:25) I guess I can start in terms of how I built my business. So I started with this offering on helping leaders increase their leadership, sometimes called executive presence. And if you're an individual contributor at a company, your personal presence by sharing skills, techniques that actors use to have great stage presence. And now that we're in this kind of zoom world or Microsoft teams world, you know, screen presence and there's like very specific learnable skills to help you increase your presence at work. So presence, when people, businesses think about presence, what they think about is people giving presentations. So after people have learned their presence, sometimes their presentations still don't go very well, not because their presence isn't good anymore, but because the presentation sucks. So then now they need help with how do I put together an interesting PowerPoint? What's the narrative? What's the story of the actual slide deck that I'm showing? Because both the message and the messenger have to work hand in hand. So that became my second offering, which I now call "No More Death by Powerpoint". and that's applying the five part narrative structure, narrative arc that screenwriters use when they're writing sitcoms or Hollywood screenplays and you can lay that five act narrative on top of a PowerPoint presentation and bring your audience through the story of your data in the same way that you can bring your audience through the story of some murder mystery or horror show. So that became the second one. And then a lot of companies then, okay, now I've got these people that know how to give really good presentations, they know how to write them and how they're presenting them is really good and so now I want to help my people get promoted. You know we really need to fill our leadership pipeline who's going to be the next managing director after George retires. So that became an offering around somebody's brand. What is your personal brand at work? And Jeff Bezos has this really powerful quote that says that your brand, he meant company brands, but I think it works for people too, that your brand are the words that people use to describe you when you're not in the room. So then how do you find out what those words are? Well, those words are dictated by how you show up when you're in the room. So your presence is how you show up when you're in the room. How you give your presentation is how you show up when you're in the room. So now there's a ongoing conversation then about personal branding. You're shaping your brand by improving your presence. You're shaping your brand by how you put your messages together. And now you're shaping your brand by what your virtual hit is like. So your LinkedIn profile, how do you write your text messages? How do you write your email messages? So that's now all about language and languaging. And then that goes into how do you be a better influencer? So then there was a program about influence. So my clients basically taught me what the next pain point was, and then I would develop curriculum to be able to fill that need. So that's how it worked for me. So Scottie might have a different story. Scotty Watson (26:03) Well, Carol has just covered the diversity of your offerings. I want to talk about your diversity of your clients because as a gig worker, you can't have one main client because you are too reliant on that client. You're a commodity when you're a gig worker that they can use when they need you and they don't have to use you when they don't need you. So same as you want to have a diversified portfolio, portfolio of investments, you want to have a diversified client list. You want to have a number of clients from a number of different areas in the economy so that at any given time you're going to have work. So I have been on both sides of that. Well, you talked about when I was working at the financial institution, I had somebody who was a gig worker and they wanted to make me feel better by saying you're my only client. And I told them that doesn't make me feel better. That makes me feel distinctly worse about your business because you're going to call me and bug me for work as opposed to I'm going to call you and ask you to do jobs. I worked with that person to diversify their client list, to get other clients, because you need to have that. On the other side of that is having a job. Once upon a time, having a job was, I have a job. I have my client list, except jobs are not as secure as they were in our parents and our grandparents' days. People don't have a job forever anymore. And you can diversify your client list through networking. If you have a job, you are a gig worker that only has one client. And they're giving you a bunch of tax documents, but you only have one client. But if you're networking and you have a wide net of people that you're just... Networking is just making friends. And you have that network, you have other potential clients that you can fall back on. So for me, it's diversification in everything. Diversify what you offer, diversify who you're offering it to, whether you are a gig worker or you're a full-time job worker, have a network. Carol Lempert (28:07) And to Scott's point, this whole idea of have a network, companies realize now that their employees need to learn how to do networking. And quite literally last week, I was delivering a program that's called Take the Guestworking Out of Networking for a Corporate Client so that their employees could learn how to do networking better. So it kind of all feeds into itself. Scotty Watson (28:16) Yes. It's true. I have done role play as an improviser around networking, around having a simple conversation. It's fascinating to me how many of the younger executives that I work with that only think of networking as networking with somebody higher on the... hierarchy. You can just use the same word twice than themselves. Whereas networking should be mostly lateral. Network with the other people on the same floor as you. Let's say you work on the 12th floor. You should also be networking with people on the 11th floor and the 10th floor, all the way down to the street. And then maybe you get, if you're on the 12th floor, you get to network with the people on the 13th and 14th, but that's rarefied air. If you network with your cohorts and the people that you can help, people don't rise at the same speed. Many of the people that I started out with as an actor and a comedian are now running theaters in Ontario. And because I've kept my network active, I can call those people. So network, network, network. Marci Grossman (29:34) So do you think that your younger selves, when you were in school, in college, studying, acting, and whatever else, do think they would be surprised where you are now? Scotty Watson (29:44) Hmm. He swallowed his coffee very hard. ⁓ Carol Lempert (29:47) Surprised is an interesting word. I mean certainly I had a goal when I graduated that I didn't personally have a goal to be famous. I wanted to be a working actor. I wanted to be able to make my living as an actor. So I had a goal and I knew that I likely would have to have what Scott and I would call a Joe job or a civilian job in between acting jobs. So I knew that that was going to be the case. I don't believe in you need to have something to quote unquote fall back on. But we went through the financial meltdown in 2008, and then we went through COVID quite recently. And before that in the 90s, there was an economic downturn. So having skills that you can use in transferable places, because I was already temping in offices, I guess I already knew that that's true. So I don't know if I'm surprised, but I'm, I can honestly say I'm a tiny bit disappointed that I haven't been on Broadway, but I'm also grateful that I have enough skills to do work that I do find rewarding and interesting. So that's how I would answer that. What would you say, Scott? Scotty Watson (30:42) I think I would be completely gobsmacked at how the entertainment world has changed. There were three networks. If I did a television commercial, there was only regional and national. There was not, it's gonna play on Youtube Carol Lempert (30:48) that's true. That's very true. Scotty Watson (30:59) ⁓ so technology has completely shattered the world that the young Scotty thought was always going to be there For example auditions are the first round of auditions are always self tapes now Which when we were starting out, getting yourself on videotape was hard to do because definition videotape was a rarefied technology. And now it is right here on my phone. So all of that would have been shocking, the shattering of the markets. that $750, ⁓ television spot that I did that played all over Canada plus residuals is now a $750 television spot that plays in different websites here and there with no way for me to track residuals. It's harder for a young actor now, I think, than it ever has been. So I would have, I would have been shocked by the change in the landscape and the technology. Marci Grossman (31:55) Were there financial lessons that you learned, work ethic, things that helped you to get where you are, that you learned growing up, that you saw modeled in your family, that you talked about, that helped you to get where you are? Carol Lempert (32:07) Well, I would say for sure. When I was a kid, my dad was a contractor, may he rest in peace, and he fell through a scaffold and he screwed up his leg and his knee. So he was out of work for a year, maybe a year and a half. I was little, I don't remember how long. I don't even know if we were living on disability payments or maybe he was getting disability payments from his work. So my mom really was very skilled at budgeting, speaking of spreadsheets, collecting coupons, looking for the sales, looking for the deals. She really worked hard to make sure that we got advantages to be able to go things like to go to summer camp. But when I went to summer camp, I was the scholarship kid because she got up at five in the morning to stand in line at the community center to get the three spots that were available for the scholarship kids. So I saw my mom working really hard in that way to be the person who's minding the money. And I saw my dad working really hard to go out like he would work all day on a job. He'd come home for dinner. And then after dinner, he would leave again to go quote on a job for the next week, which is a little bit of the early lessons of entrepreneurship actually, which I kind of didn't realize till after the fact. And then when I was 17, my first job as a high school senior was being a bank teller. And I got that job because it paid $5.25 an hour and the other job that I had paid minimum wage of like $3.27 an hour or something. So like, okay, that's great. I'll learn to be a bank teller. And why they hired me, I have no idea, but maybe because I was an actor, I knew that I could look the part even at 17. So that really taught me the importance of tracking every dollar every day because you have to balance your till at the end of the day. Otherwise the next day they don't let you come back to be a bank teller to be able to earn that money. And then as I shared, you know, once I graduated theater school and I realized like where's the next paycheck gonna come from? now I have to be a temp. That's really where, know, we circling back to the comment that you made earlier about balancing your wants versus balancing your needs. So for me, that's how that happened. How about for you, Scotty? Scotty Watson (34:03) I have a very different background. I come from a blue collar union household, yeah. Teamster and Canadian I want to say CFL which is Canadian Football League. Carol Lempert (34:14) I'm Marci Grossman (34:15) He was a firefighter not a cornerback, Scotty Watson (34:16) He was a firefighter, not a quarterback. So money comes from, in our family, money comes from... You have a job go do that job. We didn't have an allowance for example. If you needed money you had to make a case to my parents to get that money or go out and get a job. So I quickly realized I didn't enjoy making a case that I wanted money for malted milk balls, which I love by the way, don't tell anybody. Right? I love Malted Milk Balls. What are you gonna do? Anybody doesn't know what they are, look them up, go get some, you're gonna thank me. I love Malted Milk Balls, and so I got a paper route so that I could buy my own damn Malted Milk Balls. And I didn't have to tell anybody what I was spending my money on. But different than my family, that paper route was a gig. So I got on to the gig work thing right away. That's my very first job was a gig and I've pretty much gigged even when I was working in the financial institution. I thought of it as a gig. Carol Lempert (35:11) But even your dad, like in the early, early days of being a firefighter, when the union wasn't really strong, he would work three days a week or three shifts a week, four shifts a week. And he had another part-time job. Like I remember your mom telling us that one of his jobs was filling up vending machines all over Southern Ontario. And then he'd come home with bags full of coins. And then your mother would sit at the kitchen table rolling coins. And that was like another way to get money in the family. yeah. Scotty Watson (35:19) Mm-hmm. they were very good with that. And then the Canadian firefighters joined the Teamsters and Canadian affiliation of Associated Labour. I can't remember. very strong union household. Carol Lempert (35:44) the Scotty Watson (35:48) I will often say when people give a hard time to unions, I say, I have teamster teeth. Carol Lempert (35:53) Well, we're also members of, Canadian Actors' Equity. Actors' Equity, I'm a member of SAG. So those are unions. When you're a gig worker, you need support of your brother and sisterhood. Scotty Watson (35:56) Yep. Yeah, our association, Equity has been extraordinarily helpful, not just in setting work standards, but by golly, you can just call them and say, how does health insurance work? Literally, you call them and say, how does health insurance, how does that work? I bet my voice is too high for the broadcast. ⁓ Yeah, and they will help you out. That, I think, is one of the best parts about unions, and safety standards and getting rid of child labor, is being able to call and say, help with this. Help me with my banking. Help me with my investments. And they'll give you advice. Marci Grossman (36:41) A lot of people in lot of different businesses, trades, gigs, whatever, have resources out there that they're not necessarily willing to ask. So I think it's great that you brought that up, that, hey, there are a lot of positions you may not think about the union beyond, oh, well, maybe I get my health insurance there, maybe I get my whatever there, but that they have so many more resources that if you ask the questions, they're there for you. Scotty Watson (36:49) Mmm. My goodness, you're absolutely right. And you know, let's take it outside of unions, there's associations. I'm also a member of the Applied Improv Network. It's just a loose association of people that use improvisation in a business capacity. And they just have seminars. Somebody's going to come in and talk to us about our taxes. And you sign on to a Zoom meeting and it's absolutely free and you learn stuff. So wow, you're absolutely right, Marci. Could not agree with you more. Marci Grossman (37:31) Well, I love when people agree with me, so thank you. Before we wrap up, have you guys got final thoughts you'd like to share? Topics you wanted to hit that maybe we didn't quite get to? Scotty Watson (37:35) ha Carol Lempert (37:34) Hahaha! I'll tell an anecdote by way of final thoughts. Scott and I were in Memphis at this gig not that long ago. And one of the things that we were doing there was helping a particular executive practice, getting more comfortable, giving presentations and getting over her stage fright. And so Scott took her through a particular improvisational warm up. And so we just got an email from her last Friday that she was on a family vacation after she had worked with us. And she was just telling the story of what had happened when she did this unique experience with these two actors that were flown in from New York and you know what she learned from it and she has a five-year-old daughter. She didn't even realize that the daughter was paying attention as she was telling this story to her friends about what she did with the improv. And then she sent us a picture of her five-year-old daughter in her bedroom that night who had set up all of her stuffed animals in a circle and was doing the little improv game which happens to be called clap focus and was doing this clap focus game with all of the little stuffed animals in a circle because her mommy had been standing in a circle learning this thing. And so I emailed back to her, you know, you've got a budding little actress, maybe you should sign her up for classes. And she emailed back, you bet I am. So there we are, like sign those kids up early, let them become a former theater kid so that the rest of their lives, they'll be able to use those skills to transfer to whatever it is their hearts desire that they want to do for their life's work. Scotty Watson (38:55) you And I want to make a pitch for taking an improv class. So many of the people that I have met that take an improv class said it was the scariest thing. I was so scared to do it. And universally, the experience that they had was improv is a collaborative community experience. So people say they universally, it was way more fun than I thought it was going to be. It was way easier than I thought it was going to be. It was way more welcoming and warm and a sense of community than I thought it was going to be. So, and every city. Just contact me and I will hook you up with the improv workshop in your city. This is not a pitch to take an improv workshop with me. This is a pitch for people, for your listeners to contact me directly and I will find improv for you in your city. And go and take a class. And many times the first class is free, just like drugs. Marci Grossman (39:55) Ha again, as I said, we use improv in everyday life. In my house, we have all taken improv classes, different places, different situations, but we've all done it, and it's an amazing opportunity. And we are all former theater kids in this house as well. Riley doing the most as he continued to do it on the side in college. and then I've done community theater and odds and ends, whatever else. It's an amazing opportunity. It's a way to get yourself out of the stage fright because in most careers at some point in time, you're going to be in front of the group. Scotty Watson (40:31) Yep. Marci Grossman (40:31) it's nice to know that you're capable of doing it. It's nice to have that little bit of comfortable in your pocket. I've done this before for a bigger audience than this. So what Scotty Watson (40:34) Yep. Then yeah. Marci Grossman (40:42) What are 20 executives when I had 50 people in the audience and I was singing? So, you know, this is easy now. Scotty Watson (40:46) Right. Marci Grossman (40:48) So, yeah, I'm going to include ⁓ links for how people would find you, find your services in the show notes. So those will be provided and available. This has been a lot of fun. I hope you guys enjoyed it as well. Scotty Watson (40:48) So true. Carol Lempert (40:56) Nice. Scotty Watson (41:01) Yes it is. Marci Grossman (41:03) Carol and Scotty, any last words of goodbye or what have you? Carol Lempert (41:07) yeah, I'll do it. Scott will appreciate this one. So when you're in rehearsal or you're practicing improv before the audience comes, at the very, end, just to be little tongue in cheek with each other, everybody says, and scene, meaning the scene is complete. So for the podcast, we can all say, and scene. Marci Grossman (41:24) Thank you, everybody. Thank you especially to my two guests, Carol Lempert and Scotty Watson. I really appreciate you coming and stopping in at my studio. And of course, I appreciate the audience listening. This has been Money Marci. Thank you for coming by to Marci Talks, Money and Life. scene. Scotty Watson (41:44) scene. Carol Lempert (41:45) ⁓