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Inside a real abduction case: How we found the Bannister kids · Cultural Wars | America Out Loud News

• 0:09
  You're listening to the Hidden Lightness on America Out Loud Talk Radio.
• 0:12
  I'm your host, Jimmy Hinton.
• 0:14
  Well, on Monday of this week, a podcast called Chasing Evil Podcast published an episode that yours truly was on, uh, alongside of I I gotta tell you, a hero of mine.
• 0:30
  And uh this was a case that very strangely, God put me right in the center of.
• 0:37
  And it's one of those bizarre things where you just strange things happen, and I believe that everything happens for a reason.
• 0:48
  I truly, truly believe that.
• 0:50
  I believe that with all tragedies, God takes those things if you're open to it.
• 0:58
  And God puts you in really strange, bizarre, otherwise extraordinary positions to be able to help other people.
• 1:08
  And I wanted to share this story because it's really powerful.
• 1:12
  And the episode, which is episode one of three, episode one was published on the 20th of April, and it's called Finding the Bannisters.
• 1:24
  And if you know anything about this story, back in 2019, Melody Bannister took off with her four children.
• 1:36
  She took off with them and hid them for eight months, using a sophisticated underground network, underground railroad network, made up of supposed, I use the word supposed because you'll find out why in a little bit.
• 1:56
  Supposed advocates, victims, advocates, people who are supposed to be helping people who are in their most vulnerable times.
• 2:25
  And she was not in a good frame of mind, and she did so anyway.
• 2:31
  They had planned a vacation, and I'll let uh Genevieve tell the story.
• 2:36
  I will link to the podcast in the show notes.
• 2:38
  Uh, Genevieve tells her story, and it's her story to tell.
• 2:44
  But generally, I can say Melody took off on a family vacation that her husband Bill was supposed to be on, except she didn't bring him with them.
• 2:56
  And her accusations were that her husband Bill, his father, who lived next door, were both sneaking the kids out in the middle of the night and abusing them in the most horrific ways humanly possible.
• 3:15
  It was supposed satanic ritual abuse.
• 3:20
  And if you know anything about SRA, SRA is uh very gruesome and it involves cult activity, it involves um lots of blood, sacrifices, uh, you name it, physical torture, sexual torture, on and on and on.
• 3:40
  Very sadistic.
• 3:43
  The only problem is that the story didn't add up.
• 3:51
  And when I talked to Melody, the details were extremely not possible.
• 3:59
  In the way that she described them, it's not as if she was remembering things differently.
• 4:05
  It's that they could not have physically taken place.
• 4:12
  At least not in the way that she described it.
• 4:14
  And when I asked specific questions, she couldn't provide specific answers.
• 4:21
  And there was a very nationally sensationalized story.
• 4:28
  It was on live PD several months later because the U.S.
• 4:31
  Marshalls eventually got involved.
• 4:33
  It turned into a missing children fugitive case when she was ordered by a judge in Alabama to return the kids home.
• 4:41
  She refused to do so.
• 4:44
  She took off again, and that's when the Marshals, the U.S.
• 4:48
  Marshals were deployed.
• 4:51
  I was uh sought out, I guess you could say, as a source to be able to help locate Melody and the kids.
• 5:00
  Now, I didn't have information, direct information leading to their location because it was very private, it was very controlled, it was very controlling, and very disturbing.
• 5:12
  Very disturbing details.
• 5:16
  The uh what well, let me back up.
• 5:20
  What I knew at the time, based on what the U.S.
• 5:24
  Marshals had told me, based on a diary that they had found from Melody was that the kids were in grave danger.
• 5:35
  That there was a very high likelihood, because there were plans to do so, that they were gonna be harmed in a very, very bad way.
• 5:49
  And so time was of the essence, and we we had to work quick, we had to work efficiently, we had to work smart, and I can tell you there were a lot of sleepless nights.
• 6:01
  A lot of sleepless nights.
• 6:16
  That did not sit well with my wife, and I understand, I get it, I totally empathize, but it didn't sit well with her.
• 6:27
  She said, You can't even uh you can't even spend time with your family, quality time on Christmas Day.
• 6:36
  You're given something else the attention.
• 6:39
  Now, I couldn't share details.
• 6:41
  At the time, it was uh extremely confidential.
• 6:47
  The conversations, everything that was going on, very, very highly confidential.
• 6:52
  So I couldn't give her details.
• 6:56
  And not that I would want to anyway.
• 7:00
  It was very dark, very gruesome.
• 7:00
  It was very dark, very gruesome.
• 7:03
  The things that I knew, the things that I were finding out, it it it was it was not a family time conversation.
• 7:03
  The things that I knew, the things that I were finding out, it it was it was not a family time conversation.
• 7:12
  And uh so I had to work very secretly and very fervently, and spent many, many, many hours in addition to full-time work, in addition to traveling, in addition to uh everyday ordinary life, spending time with your kids, spending time with your uh with your with your wife, with the rest of your family.
• 7:12
  And uh so I had to work very secretly and very fervently, and spent many, many, many hours in addition to full time work, in addition to traveling, in addition to uh everyday ordinary life, spending time with your kids, spending time with your uh with your with your
• 7:32
  It was a lot, it was a lot.
• 7:36
  And uh at times the pressure was extremely extremely heavy.
• 7:43
  Uh, but the story is not, it's not about me.
• 7:47
  It's not about what I went through because I wasn't the victim.
• 7:50
  I wasn't the one who was being hidden by an underground railroad of supposed advocates.
• 7:57
  I wasn't the one who was on the run who was being moved every two weeks to a new stranger's home over the course of eight months.
• 8:06
  I wasn't the one who was riding in different vehicle from different vehicles, wearing wearing disguises, being told constantly that the bad guys are out to get you, being made to uh to be extremely paranoid.
• 8:23
  I wasn't the one in that position.
• 8:25
  These children were.
• 8:29
  And it was a very, very disturbing case from start to finish.
• 8:35
  And the things that the kids were being fed by supposed advocates, as well as their mother, who at the time, in my opinion, was not mentally well.
• 8:48
  It was heartbreaking.
• 8:50
  They were forced to say that they were abused.
• 8:55
  Yeah, there was just so much going on.
• 8:57
  And I can't reveal a whole lot, uh, unfortunately right now because uh two of the episodes have not been released yet.
• 9:06
  And so I don't want to release a whole lot of details, so I'm gonna speak a little bit cryptically uh until the full three episodes come out, then I can speak very openly about this.
• 9:18
  But I can say as of now, I actually have to talk with the producer of the show.
• 9:24
  As of now, on May 7th at 7 p.m.
• 9:29
  Eastern, there's a live QA, and I was supposed to be a part of that.
• 9:34
  So that was gonna involve the eldest Bannister child who was kidnapped.
• 9:38
  That's Genevieve Bannister.
• 9:40
  Uh, she is an absolute hero, absolute hero.
• 9:45
  Uh she she she's well spoken, she's smart, she's funny, and uh, we just had a good time whenever we recorded the podcast.
• 9:56
  Uh, but it's gonna be her, her father Bill, the U.S.
• 10:01
  Marshal who was involved in this case, the Stafford County detective, and Chris Godstick, the producer, and myself.
• 10:14
  Now, again, I'm not gonna be available, so it's gonna be a little bit challenging.
• 10:20
  So hopefully, uh, I don't know, hopefully we can reschedule that, but uh I really want to be a part of that.
• 10:28
  But if not, then uh it'll be the rest of everybody, minus me, which I'm perfectly okay with.
• 10:34
  Uh again, it's not about me.
• 10:36
  This is a story for the Bannisters to tell.
• 10:41
  And they are absolute heroes.
• 10:43
  But Bill Bannister, the husband, he was painted as a monster very nationally, very publicly.
• 10:52
  People called him a monster, people were calling death on him.
• 10:55
  He actually had to move.
• 10:57
  He was getting death threats.
• 10:59
  Uh he he was one of America's most hated people because of the accusations that were coming out about him against him.
• 11:09
  And he was put in a very, very bad position, and I always felt bad for him because I knew what was happening behind the scenes.
• 11:17
  I was not permitted to reach out to Bill Bannister because it was a very involved case.
• 11:23
  I was not permitted to reach out to him.
• 11:25
  I couldn't give him any details whatsoever.
• 11:29
  And it was a huge challenge because I saw publicly what people were saying about him.
• 11:34
  People can be very, very, very cruel.
• 11:37
  And especially when it comes to abuse.
• 11:39
  And that's one of the strange things about this story is that the allegations were uh that there was satanic abuse, there was sexual abuse, there was physical abuse, spiritual abuse, and and the public gets outraged when they think that kids are being abused, they just automatically jump to the conclusion that that person's uh a piece of dirt, and uh it'd be better if they were put on an island or put in jail for the rest of their life, get rid of them, right?
• 12:15
  And so the public piled up on Bill Bannister, and uh they were just outraged.
• 12:23
  How could a father take his children out of the house in the middle of the night, deliver them to his own father to to be abused all night long.
• 12:35
  And uh it just spiraled into a crazy story, but I I want to read a little bit of an article, and I had an inside scoop uh the entire time uh as I worked with U.S.
• 12:50
  Marshall, uh, we had a lot of information that the public didn't have.
• 12:56
  And so I was just watching this thing unfold and and it got crazy.
• 13:00
  Uh here's an article back from when this all first happened.
• 13:04
  Northern Virginia uh reporter Drew Louder speaks with Bill Bannister, who says his wife is on the run with their four kids.
• 13:13
  The mother, Melody Bannister, left with the children back in June after accusing both her husband and father-in-law of child abuse.
• 13:22
  Stafford County police determined these allegations were unfounded.
• 13:27
  The search for Melody continues as she faces charges ranging from abduction to filing a false police report.
• 13:36
  Then of course, the U.S.
• 13:37
  Marshals were uh called in on that case.
• 13:41
  And that's when I was uh kind of roped into this and willingly, but the goal was to find a mother and her four kids and to find them alive.
• 13:58
  We had good evidence that there was uh a very dangerous situation for the kids.
• 14:00
  There was uh a very dangerous situation for the kids.
• 14:06
  I'll just leave it at that.
• 14:06
  I'll just leave it at that.
• 14:07
  I'll let Genevieve tell her story.
• 14:07
  I'll let Genevieve tell her story.
• 14:09
  You all can listen to that, but uh it was it was a very sticky, dangerous situation.
• 14:09
  You all can listen to that, but uh it was it was a very, very sticky, dangerous situation.
• 14:16
  It was not good.
• 14:16
  It was not good.
• 14:18
  And as I mentioned, we were up against the clock.
• 14:18
  And as I mentioned, we were up against the clock.
• 14:20
  We had to find them.
• 14:20
  We had to find them.
• 14:23
  We didn't have a choice.
• 14:23
  We didn't have a choice.
• 14:25
  Uh the the other option was to find them either.
• 14:25
  Uh the the other option was to find them either alive or to find them dead.
• 14:34
  And we very much preferred to find all of them alive, and uh that is kind of the story here.
• 14:43
  So uh in June of 2019, then 34 year old Melody Bannister accused her father in law and her then husband of abusing their three daughters, ages 13, 12, and 11, and her seven-year-old son.
• 15:03
  Uh, but the Stafford County Sheriff's Department and child protective services found the allegations to be unfounded.
• 15:12
  And this brings up a whole nother big issue.
• 15:16
  What do we do when allegations are unfounded?
• 15:21
  And this happens all the time, even when there's legitimate cases of abuse, oftentimes they'll come back and say, Well, it's been unfounded.
• 15:30
  So, how do we decipher?
• 15:32
  And that's exactly what I had to do.
• 15:36
  I had to make a determination.
• 15:39
  Uh, was the Stafford County Sheriff's Department correct in their assessment?
• 15:45
  Or did she really need to be on the run?
• 15:48
  Was she really in, were her and the kids really in a very big uh threat.
• 15:55
  Now, my thing is, even if there was a legitimate threat, there are legitimate ways to get help.
• 16:02
  And taking your kids and becoming a national fugitive is not one of them.
• 16:08
  In fact, I pleaded with Melody.
• 16:12
  I told her, do not do this, it's not going to end well.
• 16:16
  And she kept saying, Well, uh, we I need to protect them, I need to protect my kids.
• 16:21
  I understand that.
• 16:22
  I get that.
• 16:24
  I'm empathetic to that, but this is not the way.
• 16:29
  It's not the way to do it.
• 16:31
  Taking them, kidnapping them, running with them, that's not the way.
• 16:35
  There are much, much safer ways to protect your babies.
• 16:41
  Uh, just taking them and running and and becoming a fugitive, it's just never gonna end well.
• 16:47
  They will find you.
• 16:50
  And that's exactly what happened.
• 16:54
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• 16:57
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• 19:17
  Melody Bannister took off with her kids in June of 2019 and disappeared for eight months.
• 19:25
  For eight months, nobody could find her.
• 19:28
  The authorities were looking for her.
• 19:46
  And here's what Bill Bannister, the father had to say.
• 19:51
  She threatened me before she left.
• 19:54
  And said, if you don't side with the children, then you're gonna burn with your dad.
• 20:01
  What does that mean?
• 20:03
  I mean, I'd be a little bit afraid if I were the father.
• 20:07
  Uh he had every right to be afraid.
• 20:10
  He petitioned for custody of the children in July.
• 20:13
  That was July of 2019, and was granted it.
• 20:18
  His wife petitioned for custody in Alabama, and the courts there ordered the children to be returned to their father.
• 20:27
  But she left the state.
• 20:37
  And pretty much everywhere in between.
• 20:46
  Writing it wasn't safe to return because the alleged abusers were not in jail.
• 20:53
  Bill said, you don't hear the pitter patter of little feet in the house anymore.
• 20:58
  Nobody's singing, nobody's laughing.
• 21:00
  Nobody's laughing.
• 21:01
  It's dark.
• 21:01
  It's dark, it's quiet, it's lonely.
• 21:03
  It's quiet.
• 21:05
  It's lonely.
• 21:07
  And for eight grueling months, he didn't know whether his children were alive or dead.
• 21:07
  And for eight grueling months, he didn't know whether his children were alive or dead.
• 21:16
  He didn't know where they were.
• 21:16
  He didn't know where they were.
• 21:17
  He didn't know if they were alive, what physical state they were in, what psychological state they were in.
• 21:17
  He didn't know if they were alive, what physical state they were in, what psychological state they were in.
• 21:26
  And you'll find out when you listen to.
• 21:26
  And you'll find out when you listen to the podcast, you'll find out their mental state, it was not good.
• 21:35
  It was not good at all.
• 21:37
  And the very people who publicly said that they were protecting the kids, they were keeping them safe from the abusive father.
• 21:44
  They were keeping them safe from the abusive grandfather.
• 21:48
  They were keeping them safe from all these monsters who were out there doing the satanic ritual abuse to them.
• 21:58
  The people who said that they were protecting them.
• 22:03
  We're keeping them in a total state of chaos and confusion.
• 22:10
  And the irony is that the cult that they supposedly were running from, put them right into the hands of a different more dangerous cult.
• 22:26
  And by the way, that's not my term for them.
• 22:30
  That's the FBI.
• 22:32
  This eventually went to the FBI.
• 22:34
  It went to Homeland Security.
• 22:35
  It went to Tennessee Bureau of Investigations.
• 22:38
  There were so many departments that got involved in this.
• 22:42
  And this was after Melody's arrest.
• 22:45
  There were a ton of departments that got involved because there are so many victims of this underground railroad.
• 22:53
  And it's absolutely horrific.
• 23:05
  And they'll say things like, well, you don't, you don't realize that that's what it is.
• 23:10
  But all the signs are there.
• 23:13
  And so therefore you've been abused in the middle of the woods in the middle of the night.
• 23:18
  There are chains and whips and knives and all this stuff.
• 23:22
  And so the victims are saying, Well, I don't remember any of that.
• 23:26
  Yeah, but it happened to you.
• 23:28
  You you have all the signs.
• 23:31
  And they're conditioned essentially, they're conditioned to believe.
• 23:36
  And by the way, they uh it's spiritual abuse too, because they bring in the Lord and they say, Well, the Lord is leading me, He's giving me revelations to say that you've been abused in this way, and we're just going to let the Lord guide us in this in this conversation.
• 23:56
  And eventually, the victims, Melody being one of them, they're broken down to the point where they get so paranoid.
• 24:09
  And I I would say even delusional.
• 24:13
  And this is after I've personally spoken with multiple victims of this underground railroad.
• 24:21
  And they all tell me the same thing.
• 24:23
  They're like, we we were we're just always kept in this fast-paced, just constant confusion, thinking that the boogeyman is coming for us and uh and we need to run and we need to run yesterday.
• 24:38
  So there's not time to think, there's not time to process because if the abusers, and that's what they are, the abusers of this underground railroad, if they give people time to stop and think, to think for themselves, they begin to lose control.
• 24:58
  And I think that that's what this all is about.
• 25:00
  People have asked me, they're like, what did these people have to gain by keeping people like Melody and her kids and multiple families, multiple families, who are roped into this exact thing, what do they have to gain by that?
• 25:16
  And my answer is off the top of my head, I don't know.
• 25:22
  I don't think there's any amount of money, at least the amounts of money that I saw that this group takes in.
• 25:30
  There's not an amount of money that makes it worth it to them.
• 25:34
  So I believe that this is kind of a Jim Jones kind of cult where they actually believe that they're doing good for these people.
• 25:48
  You know, it's like Jim Jones truly believed that the end of the world, the rapture was coming, the end of the world is here, and we're the only enlightened ones.
• 26:00
  When you start hearing people talk talk that way, that they say we're the only ones who are enlightened.
• 26:07
  God gave me these people, God put these people in my path.
• 26:11
  When you start hearing that kind of language, I I would start saying these are kind of red flags.
• 26:19
  God led these people to me.
• 26:23
  That's a very possessive language.
• 26:28
  Now I'm not talking about, like sometimes we'll say that uh kind of off the cuff.
• 26:34
  Like, oh, the Lord, the Lord led, led my wife to me.
• 26:39
  Right?
• 26:40
  We might make comments like that.
• 26:42
  I'm not talking about just that comment in itself, but when people obsess about that, they obsessively say, just constantly.
• 26:50
  They work that into just about every conversation.
• 26:54
  The Lord keeps leading these people to me.
• 26:57
  I don't know what it is, the Lord just keeps leading them to me.
• 27:01
  The Lord opened my eyes.
• 27:03
  It's the there's the enlightenment.
• 27:05
  The Lord opened my eyes, and I can see things that others can't.
• 27:14
  Like that's sound the alarm.
• 27:18
  That's dangerous talk.
• 27:20
  That's cult talk.
• 27:23
  When people start talking about they're the only enlightened ones, that's total crap.
• 27:29
  That is total crap.
• 27:33
  When you think that you're the only enlightened one, and then if you shift to that, and these people take it a step farther, they take it 50 steps farther.
• 27:45
  And they'll say things like, well, um, the Lord allows me to see who has darkness.
• 27:55
  They have a dark spirit hanging over them.
• 27:59
  It's wait, what?
• 28:00
  Wait, what?
• 28:02
  And now they're the only enlightened people who can tell that they're evil spirits hovering above the heads of of certain individuals.
• 28:02
  And now they're the only enlightened people who can tell that they're evil spirits hovering above the heads of certain individuals.
• 28:13
  This is nonsense.
• 28:13
  This is nonsense.
• 28:16
  Now, that's not to say that people don't have intuition and like, you know, I all of us get gut feelings about people.
• 28:16
  Now, that's not to say that people don't have intuition and like, you know, I all of us get gut feelings about people.
• 28:24
  Something didn't sit right with with that person.
• 28:24
  Something didn't sit right with with that person, right?
• 28:27
  Right?
• 28:27
  Well, we'll talk about things like that.
• 28:27
  Well, we'll talk about things like that.
• 28:31
  Or we'll experience things like that.
• 28:33
  Something just didn't sit right with that person.
• 28:35
  I got bad vibes.
• 28:38
  Okay, that's acceptable.
• 28:42
  What's not acceptable is when people say, I'm the only one who can tell who the evil people are in your life.
• 28:52
  And these victims were told that.
• 28:55
  Let me look at pictures.
• 28:58
  And I can tell you by looking at their picture if there's an evil spirit inside of that person.
• 29:06
  They were literally being told this.
• 29:08
  The victims were being told this.
• 29:10
  Melody was being told this.
• 29:14
  And magically, as magic would have it, and I'm saying this very sarcastically, because it's not magic, it's just it's it's part of the abusive structure.
• 29:30
  Everybody in their life, except for you ready for this.
• 29:39
  The people who are holding them hostage in this in this uh they're protecting them in quotes in air quotes.
• 29:46
  The people who are protecting them in this underground railroad, they don't have evil spirits, but everybody else does.
• 29:54
  Everybody else does.
• 29:56
  And so they're taught that you can't trust anybody, including their own family.
• 30:01
  Well, then they're isolated.
• 30:03
  They have to relink relinquish their cell phones, their computers, all that stuff.
• 30:10
  Why?
• 30:11
  Because the bad people have gotten into them, they've tapped them.
• 30:16
  Those bad people.
• 30:17
  So Melody was told that the people who are raping her daughters and doing this satanic ritual abuse, they've gotten into your phones.
• 30:27
  They've tapped your phones, they've tapped your computers, and so the only way to really keep you safe, to truly keep you safe, is we need to take those and analyze them.
• 30:40
  And we we need to protect you.
• 30:44
  And so what do they do?
• 30:45
  They voluntarily quote quote unquote.
• 30:50
  It's truly a form of coercion, but they relinquish everything that connects them to the outside world.
• 31:00
  And they are now in total and complete darkness and isolation.
• 31:05
  And that's where the control can really happen.
• 31:09
  And by the way, Melody, Melody Bannister knows that I'm the one who led authorities to her.
• 31:19
  And she just found that out recently.
• 31:21
  I had a conversation with her directed through the US Marshals.
• 31:28
  And I was asked, you know, this was not a forced meeting.
• 31:32
  I was asked, is it okay if we reveal that you worked with us to help find Melody.
• 31:41
  Now the kids already knew this.
• 31:43
  The kids and Bill already knew this.
• 31:46
  But Melody did not.
• 31:49
  And they said, we think that it would be very healing for her just to hear that she's not crazy, that they conditioned her to think this way.
• 32:04
  And I was like, yeah, absolutely.
• 32:06
  Yeah, I'll talk to her.
• 32:09
  And uh so we connected and had a wonderful actually several phone conversations.
• 32:19
  And she revealed a lot of things, and I revealed a lot of things that I had learned about the cult that held her and her kids captive.
• 32:28
  And she told me about the computer and the phones, and I was like, I already know.
• 32:35
  She's like, how do you know?
• 32:36
  And I said, Because they do this to everybody.
• 32:40
  I've spoken to multiple victims that say that they had to relinquish their phone, their computer, uh, anything digital that connected them to the outside world, they had to get rid of it because the bad guys, they were told the bad guys have bugged it, and you're being sold or your kids are being sold on the dark web.
• 33:05
  Literally every single victim was told this.
• 33:09
  And it's a lie, it's a flat-out falsehood, it's a lie.
• 33:14
  And the people who held them captive knew this.
• 33:18
  But they said it anyway.
• 33:21
  Why?
• 33:23
  Because if they have access to the outside world, can you imagine if Melody could have called anybody that she wanted?
• 33:29
  And at some point she was like, wait, something's not something's not right here.
• 33:34
  I need to call somebody, and I I need to, I need to have somebody come get me and my kids.
• 33:42
  That's not gonna happen.
• 33:44
  Once you're in what I call the house of whores, once once you're passed around from house to house to house to house, just constantly, every two weeks, she was being moved, her and her kids.
• 33:58
  Once you're passed around that often, and you're kept in a state of total confusion, they're not gonna relinquish that control.
• 34:09
  They will not, and they can not, because if they do, then people can talk.
• 34:17
  And they don't want people to talk.
• 34:20
  They want to keep people in this constant state of confusion, and uh Genevieve talks about in good detail, great detail.
• 34:28
  She talks about how paranoid they were, and they were they were made to be paranoid, they were told constantly, they were conditioned and told by by the people who quote protected them that you better watch out.
• 34:43
  The the government has drones, they have uh they have spies, they have people everywhere you go, people are watching you, and it just makes them incredibly paranoid.
• 34:55
  And it's sickening, folks.
• 34:57
  It's sickening.
• 35:00
  And I have pieces of evidence after pieces of evidence, conversations that uh that I have with people, uh all of them say the same thing, all of them say the same thing.
• 35:00
  And I have pieces of evidence after pieces of evidence, conversations that uh that I have with people, uh all of them say the same thing, all of them say the same thing.
• 35:13
  This is, according to the FBI, it is a nasty, nasty cult.
• 35:13
  This is, according to the FBI, it is a nasty, nasty cult.
• 35:21
  And after the break, uh, we are coming up on a break here in just a minute, but after the break, I want to talk about what do we do when allegations are unfounded.
• 35:21
  And after the break, uh, we are coming up on a break here in just a minute, but after the break, I want to talk about what do we do.
• 35:33
  How do we decipher whether the abuse is credible?
• 35:39
  Or if there are red flags there that uh that maybe we should look a little bit deeper that maybe perhaps abuse didn't happen, and that something else is going on, which that's what happened in this case.
• 35:52
  How do we tell?
• 35:53
  How how can you tell?
• 35:54
  Because the common knowledge out there is you believe a survivor no matter what, right?
• 36:00
  You you don't question because people aren't gonna it's very rare, and it is, it's very rare for people to give false allegations.
• 36:11
  It's very rare, and so the conventional wisdom that's taught, it's taught to people constantly.
• 36:19
  It's believe the victims, believe them.
• 36:25
  You know, uh the the uh there are so many cases, so many high profile cases.
• 36:31
  Uh always believe the survivor, always believe them, always believe them.
• 36:37
  Well, I take a different stance.
• 36:39
  My stance is believe but verify.
• 36:44
  Listen to people and ask the right questions.
• 36:50
  And you can decipher whether there are kind of some uh some things that just aren't adding up.
• 36:58
  Well, we are coming up hard on a break here.
• 37:01
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• 37:06
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• 37:09
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• 38:50
  Melody Bannister was a fugitive who kidnapped all four of her kids, took them on the run, kept them hidden through a very sophisticated underground railroad, uh, very, very sophisticated, very corrupt uh underground railroad, very cult-ish underground railroad.
• 39:11
  And um eight months later, through a lot of heartache and headache and uh hard work, and uh I I can't really share the details for how I, with the help of a couple other people, were able to lead the US Marshals to Melody and her four kids.
• 39:36
  It actually was miraculous.
• 39:39
  Uh just the the it was very impossible to find them.
• 39:45
  It was it it would have been easier to find a needle in a haystack than to find Melody and her kids.
• 39:52
  That's how well they were hidden.
• 39:56
  I I could have found three needles in a haystack before we found Melody and her four children.
• 40:05
  The odds were really stacked against us.
• 40:08
  This network was incredibly secretive, um, very brazen, very well funded.
• 40:18
  They uh they did a lot of conditioning to the victims who who were in hiding.
• 40:24
  They ensured that they would never tell anybody.
• 40:28
  And on and on, even to this day, uh Melody is living in hiding.
• 40:36
  And I don't blame her.
• 40:37
  I totally get it.
• 40:40
  She's still living in fear this many years later.
• 40:43
  This is a cult.
• 40:45
  The cult who hid her and her kids, they're terrible people.
• 40:53
  But in the middle of the terrible people are good people who think they're actually helping other people, innocent people.
• 41:03
  Right?
• 41:03
  Because that's a narrative that's told to them.
• 41:06
  Hey, could you put this person up in your home?
• 41:09
  The bad guys are out to get them, and you'll be doing your civic duty as an American if you keep them hidden in your house.
• 41:18
  Oh, well, of course, whatever I can do.
• 41:22
  And there were people after people after people, family after family after family, and the U.S.
• 41:27
  Marshals would interview them, and these people would just break down, and they're like, we felt so bad for the kids because they were abused so badly by by their dad and by their grandfather and by all these other people.
• 41:43
  And the marshals were like, yeah, uh, that never happened.
• 41:47
  Well, then these people felt horrible, and they're like, I just harbored a fugitive.
• 41:54
  Yeah, yeah, you did.
• 41:57
  You know, but they're good people.
• 41:58
  Some of some of the people are innocent people, they're good people, but the people leading this group, the people leading the Underground Railroad, they're not good people at all.
• 42:00
  Are innocent people.
• 42:01
  They're good people.
• 42:02
  But the people leading this group, the people leading the Underground Railroad, they're not good people at all.
• 42:09
  And so, how how do we decipher?
• 42:09
  And so how do we decipher?
• 42:12
  How did I come to the conclusion?
• 42:12
  How did I come to the conclusion?
• 42:14
  How did I say something's not sitting right with Melody's story?
• 42:14
  How did I say something's not sitting right with Melody's story?
• 42:19
  And uh why am I gonna work with the US Marshall?
• 42:19
  And why am I going to work with the US Marshals?
• 42:25
  Yeah.
• 42:25
  Yeah, how how did how did I come to that conclusion?
• 42:26
  How did I come to that conclusion?
• 42:28
  Because I see this all the time.
• 42:28
  Because I see this all the time.
• 42:30
  I see it where people are interviewed and they're credible allegations of abuse.
• 42:36
  Very credible.
• 42:38
  And then there's not enough evidence or not enough statements or a victim recants and won't talk.
• 42:47
  And then eventually the investigators are forced to say, well, it's unfounded.
• 42:54
  And so what unfounded means, it doesn't mean that the alleged abuser is innocent.
• 43:02
  It just means that it was unfounded in that they could not find enough evidence to continue the investigation or to press charges.
• 43:13
  And therefore it's unfounded.
• 43:16
  Now a lot of people associate unfounded with innocent.
• 43:20
  They're not the same thing.
• 43:47
  But not always.
• 43:50
  In fact, very often, cases are unfounded where they're very credible allegations of abuse.
• 43:57
  And so how do we determine?
• 43:59
  How did I make a determination?
• 44:00
  How did I how could I tell that the story that Melody told me didn't really happen to the kids?
• 44:11
  Well, and by the way, uh you'll hear from Genevieve, she flat out says, we were never abused.
• 44:18
  We were forced.
• 44:19
  We were coerced to say that we were abused.
• 44:24
  Both by Melody and by the people who are hiding them.
• 44:27
  They forced them to say that they were abused.
• 44:30
  Now, what kind of sick demented stuff?
• 44:34
  Who does that to little kids?
• 44:36
  Who forces them to say that they were abused when they were not?
• 44:43
  It's it's so infuriating.
• 44:47
  And so I believe wholeheartedly that Melody believed that her kids were abused.
• 44:53
  She was fully convinced.
• 44:54
  There's no question about that.
• 44:57
  But when I spoke to her, it sounded like somebody who was in some kind of a manic state.
• 45:07
  And not somebody who was an innocent mother who uh whose kids were abused.
• 45:15
  And and part of the reason is, and I talked about this in Chasing Evil, the podcast, it's excellent, excellent, excellent.
• 45:23
  It's uh, and I'm not talking about myself here.
• 45:26
  It's I'm talking about Genevieve.
• 45:28
  She was phenomenal.
• 45:30
  You have to listen to it.
• 45:33
  Um but I talked about that.
• 45:36
  And I said, well, when when I heard the details, like for me, the math has to math.
• 45:42
  The math has to add up.
• 45:44
  Two plus two is always going to equal four.
• 45:48
  You know, unless it's uh common core math, where two plus two can equal seven, and you're like, everybody gets a trophy.
• 45:57
  I kid here.
• 45:58
  Uh you have to laugh.
• 46:00
  If you don't laugh, you would cry.
• 46:02
  But the math has to math, right?
• 46:04
  Two plus two equals four.
• 46:06
  And so how do you how do you get that equation?
• 46:09
  Well, you ask questions.
• 46:14
  And I was asking very specific questions.
• 46:19
  And I would say things like, well, okay, the kids were you're alleging that the kids were hit with bull whips.
• 46:28
  Now, I don't know about you, but uh if you've ever seen anything that was hit by a bull whip, uh a bull whip will shred anything in this path.
• 46:39
  Bull whips are vicious.
• 46:42
  My youngest son makes homemade handmade whips that are absolutely incredible.
• 46:49
  Like they're they are pieces of art.
• 46:52
  And he's also, he loves uh physics, and he explained to me that that crack that you hear is actually the sound barrier being broken.
• 47:05
  The little tip that you put on on the end of the whip, when you crack that thing, it creates a whip action, whereas when it gets to the end of that whip, that little string is moving faster than the speed of sound, it breaks the sound barrier, and that's where you hear the I never knew that.
• 47:31
  Now, maybe that's common knowledge, but I never knew that.
• 47:36
  So imagine something coming at you at the speed of sound and on the end of a bull whip, they have leather.
• 47:46
  That leather is is is it's tough.
• 47:49
  It's tougher than your skin, I guarantee that.
• 47:53
  And somebody's whipping you at the speed of sound faster than the speed of sound with a big bull whip.
• 48:01
  I'm telling you, it's gonna do a lot of damage.
• 48:03
  So I asked her, well, how often were they hit with bull whips?
• 48:10
  Oh, all the time.
• 48:11
  Every night, every single night they were brought out.
• 48:15
  Uh Bill would wake them up, he would take them out to to the to the barn to the father-in-law's barn, and they would whip the kids all night long with bull whips.
• 48:25
  Okay, every day, all night long.
• 48:33
  Did you see evidence on their skin?
• 48:38
  Are there big because the the the deal was she didn't want to report it?
• 48:43
  Um and then eventually she said, I did report it, but they just they don't want to listen.
• 48:49
  Okay, then lift up your kids' shirts and show them the scars.
• 48:55
  How bad is the scar?
• 48:56
  I asked her, how bad is the scarring?
• 48:58
  Oh, well, it didn't leave any any marks.
• 49:00
  Any any marks.
• 49:03
  And then she laughed.
• 49:03
  And then she laughed.
• 49:05
  And it was like a again, it was like she was in a manic state.
• 49:05
  And it was like a again, it was like she was in a manic state.
• 49:09
  And if you've ever seen anybody with uh who's a manic depressant, uh, when they're in a manic state, they giggle at everything.
• 49:09
  And if you've ever seen anybody with uh who's a manic depressant, uh, when they're in a manic state, they giggle at everything.
• 49:17
  Like if they're nervous, they laugh.
• 49:17
  Like if they're nervous, they laugh.
• 49:18
  If they're scared, they laugh.
• 49:18
  If they're scared, they laugh.
• 49:20
  If they're uh tired, they laugh.
• 49:20
  If they're uh tired, they laugh.
• 49:24
  When they're in that manic state.
• 49:24
  When they're in that manic state.
• 49:27
  And she laughed and she said, Well, Jimmy, you know.
• 49:27
  And she laughed, and she said, Well, Jimmy, you know, you know how good abusers are at hiding their marks.
• 49:34
  They hide what they do really well.
• 49:38
  I'm like, yeah, like I didn't say this to her, but getting whipped with bull whips, having your skin opened up, bleeding out, and the back is a sensitive area.
• 49:51
  There are a lot of nerve endings in the back.
• 49:53
  I mean, a lot.
• 49:55
  You're not going to get whipped in the back.
• 49:58
  That's where she said they got whipped.
• 50:00
  You're not going to get whipped in the back as a child and not be in excruciating pain.
• 50:08
  Excrucient.
• 50:09
  I mean, excruciating pain.
• 50:12
  And so right there, the math automatically wasn't mathing.
• 50:19
  And then she said there were cameras.
• 50:21
  They film everything in the barn.
• 50:24
  I've been in there.
• 50:25
  They have cameras.
• 50:26
  They they hide them and they have cameras all over the place.
• 50:30
  I said, perfect.
• 50:32
  What do you mean perfect?
• 50:34
  That's not perfect.
• 50:35
  That's disgusting.
• 50:36
  That's these vile abusers.
• 50:38
  No, no, no.
• 50:39
  It's perfect because they have they have there's digital evidence now.
• 50:45
  Remove the cameras.
• 50:48
  Go in there, remove the cameras, take them, bring them into the police station.
• 50:53
  Bring witnesses with you to the police station so that they can't say, well, she never brought us cameras.
• 50:58
  Bring them to the police station.
• 50:59
  Or better yet, demand that the Stafford County Sheriff's Department go with you to the barn.
• 51:10
  You'll have protection.
• 51:12
  Go to the barn and show them the cameras.
• 51:15
  Let them get a warrant and let them confiscate the cameras.
• 51:19
  Because if there are indeed cameras in there, and they are indeed filming the abuse that's going on, this is a slam dunk.
• 51:27
  You don't even need statements from the kids at that point.
• 51:30
  You don't need statements from anybody at that point.
• 51:34
  I mean, this is literally you're handing them the keys to the jail cell, essentially.
• 51:43
  And her response was, oh, well, they would never believe me.
• 51:49
  And I'm like, they don't have to believe you.
• 51:53
  Pull the cameras down or else show them the cameras.
• 51:57
  It's just, it's literally that simple.
• 52:00
  And she laughed again, and uh it was like a nervous laugh, and she's like, Well, I just I think it's better if I just take the kids and run.
• 52:10
  And I was like, No, I like as a parent, and that's the thing.
• 52:14
  I tried to put myself in in a situation where if I believed that my kids were being abused in that bad of a way, I would crawl over glass and do everything in my power to bring those people to justice.
• 52:29
  I wouldn't run from them.
• 52:31
  I mean, maybe temporarily to if if I felt really threatened, but I would crawl over glass to put those people behind bars for the rest of their lives so that they could never harm anybody ever again.
• 52:45
  Well, that was never the goal.
• 52:47
  That was never the focus from from Melody or from the people who hit her.
• 52:51
  It was never about justice, it was about creating a narrative where these bad guys are out to get them.
• 52:59
  You know, these bad guys are out there, and we we need to protect her.
• 53:02
  We need to hide her.
• 53:03
  We need to hide the kids because these monsters are there out to get them.
• 53:08
  So anyway, it really was a fascinating story and is a fascinating story, and there's just so much that gets uncovered in in these three episodes in the Chasing Evil podcast.
• 53:20
  Again, I'll link to that in the show notes, but uh this kind of evil happens, and it's it's a weird like kind of a subset of actual evil of actual sexual and physical abuse.
• 53:37
  This is like a weird subset, but it's really common.
• 53:44
  These cults that are out there are actually more common than you think.
• 53:52
  And so the question is what are you gonna do about it?
• 53:56
  Like, do you think that you're uh vulnerable to being caught up in one of these cults?
• 54:05
  And the answer to that is yes, we're all vulnerable.
• 54:10
  We all are vulnerable.
• 54:12
  So we have to have an awareness.
• 54:13
  We have to be aware of our surroundings.
• 54:16
  We have to be aware that when we're seeking help, we better go to a legitimate organization that's well established.
• 54:24
  You know, don't go to these vigilante people who they're like, oh, we're in underground railroad and we'll keep you safe, wink wink.
• 54:32
  Don't go to people like that.
• 54:33
  Don't do it.
• 54:36
  Never go to people who are vigilantes who are like, well, we'll we'll keep you on the run.
• 54:43
  We'll turn you into fugitive and we'll keep you on the run.
• 54:48
  Don't do it.
• 54:49
  Go through legitimate channels.
• 54:53
  And if you hit a wall, don't collapse into a pile of dust.
• 54:58
  I promise you there are other avenues.
• 55:00
  There are other organizations, there are always other options.
• 55:05
  But the best options are the legitimate options.
• 55:09
  The ones where people will actually help you.
• 55:13
  They're organized uh legitimate structured organizations, nonprofits and whatnot that have accountability, they have boards of directors, they have built-in accountability.
• 55:29
  This other group does not.
• 55:30
  Everything they do is in secret, everything.
• 55:35
  All the communication, it's all through aliases on encrypted apps.
• 55:41
  Nobody you you never know anybody's real name.
• 55:46
  It's all aliases, fake names.
• 55:49
  Like, it's insane.
• 55:52
  Don't do that.
• 55:54
  If you know somebody who's in trouble, if you know somebody who's part of a domestic abuse situation, or kids who are being abused, or whatever it is, go to authorities, don't shuffle them off to an illegitimate organization that's underground that's vigilante.
• 56:00
  Or kids who are being abused, or whatever it is, go to authorities.
• 56:06
  Don't shuffle them off to an illegitimate organization that's underground, that's vigilante.
• 56:13
  Just don't do that.
• 56:13
  Just don't do that.
• 56:14
  There's plenty of help out there.
• 56:14
  There's plenty of help out there.
• 56:16
  I promise you that.
• 56:16
  I promise you that.
• 56:17
  And that, my friends, is the hidden lightness.
• 56:17
  And that, my friends, is the hidden lightness.
• 56:20
  Check out Chasing Evil.
• 56:20
  Check out Chasing Evil.
• 56:22
  I'll post it in in the show notes.
• 56:22
  I'll post it in the show notes.
• 56:24
  You can find more out about my show and get all the latest podcasts.
• 56:24
  You can find more out about my show and get all the latest podcasts if you go to the menu navigation bar at AmericaOutloud.news under our shows or schedule.
• 56:28
  If you go to the menu navigation bar to
• 56:32
  You'll be in the know.
• 56:33
  There's a hidden lightness that shines inside of all of us.
• 56:36
  When there's so much darkness that envelops us, don't forget that it doesn't take much light to expose the darkness and to ultimately inspire other people.
• 56:45
  Join me in being a light.