Latest / Gospel Talks Podcast / #100 - What Do You Do When Your Church Doesn’t Care About Evangelism?

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#100 - What Do You Do When Your Church Doesn’t Care About Evangelism? · Gospel Talks Podcast

0:03
Hey guys, I want to describe a situation to you.
0:07
A pastor and his wife love their church,
0:10
have invested years trying to cultivate a culture of personal evangelism,
0:16
taught it, modeled it, created opportunities,
0:19
but the congregation just hasn't bought in.
0:24
We got an email this last week.
0:27
I'm going to read it to you after the intro.
0:29
And
0:30
We're gonna see if we can answer this question to the best of our ability.
0:34
But there are times when your church just doesn't share your heart for evangelism.
0:40
This is Gospel Talks Podcast,
0:43
where we help Christians all over the world become more effective
0:47
in relational evangelism and discipleship.
0:50
My name is George Binocka, and with me today is Jeff Musgrave,
0:53
the author, founder of the Exchange Ministry.
0:55
And very excited to jump into this episode together.
0:58
Jeff, how are ya?
1:00
Doing great. Good to see ya, George.
1:02
I I said that the other day and my wife was listening to the podcast and she said,
1:06
You can't see him. I said, Well,
1:08
I can see him just 'cause you're not listening on on video doesn't mean
1:13
I can't see him.
1:15
Yep, that's right. We can see each other.
1:17
We even have a guest in the studio today.
1:19
~ R Wrangler is there and the puppy dog.
1:22
And so you you guys won't get to see him on camera,
1:25
but ~ he that is an awesome dog that can be in a podcast studio.
1:29
~ very rare that you get dogs on a podcast,
1:32
but ~ but we have one for you guys today.
1:35
Well, Jeff, this is ~ an email we got from somebody you know,
1:39
Erica and
1:43
I want to just read the email if I can to begin with,
1:45
and just just read what she wrote,
1:48
and then we'll just kind of jump into answering her questions.
1:50
She says, Thank you so much for responding.
1:52
I I don't know how often you or Jeff get requests,
1:58
so ~ hope I'm not overstepping.
2:00
You are not. ~ we love questions like this.
2:03
I I've really enjoyed so much of the podcast,
2:05
she says, having grown up in
2:07
Pastor Jeff's church. It's so nice to hear him speak again and still continuing
2:12
to teach all the things he preached to us for so many years.
2:15
My husband has been in full-time pastoral ministry for 11 years now
2:19
at our current church. He's the assistant pastor.
2:22
We love these people dearly, but we find that our view of evangelism
2:26
is almost antithetical to the church culture.
2:29
My husband and I have been here for five years and feel pretty comfortable
2:33
challenging people in their view.
2:36
They are currently a church that sees door knocking and leaving tracks
2:39
at a restaurant as the only real modes of evangelism.
2:42
If they are very adventurous, they will invite somebody to church.
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It is usually for big events like Christmas or Easter.
2:50
We live in a very small town and we found that people are hesitant
2:54
to trust members of our church because of the past reputation of our church.
2:58
They were a very internally focused church,
3:01
and when they did venture into the community,
3:03
it was usually only for things like
3:05
Knocking on doors and inviting to a church event,
3:07
there was no real love shown or interest in neighbors or community
3:11
or community events. In the last three years,
3:14
we've tried to disciple and teach people that evangelism requires more than just
3:18
a track. We have ~ implemented some gospel outreach in our community,
3:22
things like good news after school Bible club,
3:25
leading ~ fellowship of Christian athletes at the high school
3:29
and inviting unsaved neighbors to spend time in our home,
3:31
including at least one church family at the same time.
3:34
So they can see personal evangelism in practice.
3:36
Recently taught in Sunday school,
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~ they divided the men and the women on personal evangelism,
3:40
pulling from giving the exchange,
3:42
and personal evangelism from nine marks.
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And unfortunately, this has not seemed to have much effect on their way of thinking.
3:48
They ~ appreciate that we use these methods,
3:52
but they have no interest in adopting them themselves.
3:55
we even sometimes receive pushback because we do not organize door knocking,
4:00
gospel outreach on behalf of the church.
4:02
When we encourage them to open their homes and their lives to their neighbors,
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we are usually told that they don't believe their neighbors would have
4:09
any interest in talking about spiritual things,
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or they just complain about their neighbors.
4:13
~ sorry this is so long. I just wanted to set everything up to ask
4:17
my question is there anything else we can do to instill in our church
4:21
the importance of their personal outreach to their neighbors and the people
4:25
in their sphere of life? And on a personal level,
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Could you and Pastor Jeff offer encouragement to pastors and their families
4:31
who feel that they have exhausted every avenue and invested so much time
4:34
and energy into teaching their church members how important this is
4:37
and not seeing people start to take those steps in their own life?
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We certainly aren't giving up on continuing all the things we've done,
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but it is very discouraging. And my husband is currently pursuing a senior pastor.
4:49
We're very concerned that when we leave,
4:52
any sort of personal evangelism through our church will completely fall apart.
4:57
Yeah.
4:57
Thank you
4:57
so much for slogging through this long email.
5:00
So Jeff, ~ when you read this email,
5:03
what I'm just curious what man,
5:06
what jumps out at you?
5:08
Yeah. I George, discouragement is real.
5:13
Mm.
5:15
and and frankly, partnership with like minded people is necessary.
5:19
And when you find yourself alone,
5:22
it it it it it is discouraging.
5:26
I mean it's n it's it's not like ~ you can tell yourself I'm just
5:32
not gonna be discouraged. Frankly
5:35
personal faithfulness is commendable,
5:37
but most good leaders, and I know this young man,
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he is a good leader, are not satisfied until the people that they're
5:47
trying to influence are are following and are and are ~ responding.
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So my heart really hurts ~ for them and I I I feel bad.
6:01
Right, right. Yeah, I know you see this a lot.
6:02
That's my first response.
6:03
~
6:05
I I'm with you. My heart aches for them.
6:07
so I let me just start.
6:11
~ we could talk about this, ~ kind of get your thoughts on is it possible
6:16
for a pastor to have a genuine burden for evangelism and the church that
6:21
he serves at just doesn't share that burden?
6:24
Because that's kind of like one of the questions that comes to my mind.
6:27
~ you know, what what's your thoughts on that?
6:31
Yeah, I I think it's not only possible,
6:33
but I actually think, George, it's it's probable.
6:36
And the reason I say
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Hm.
6:37
that is because ~ I I I remember as a young pastor,
6:43
I felt really strongly about something the Lord I felt led on our on
6:49
my heart for our church. And so I was meeting with our leadership team.
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And ~ was literally, I mean, I could just see in their eyes,
6:57
getting zero response from most,
6:59
negative responses from a few of the key leaders.
7:03
And I I admit that when we got done with the meeting,
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I complained
7:08
Mm.
7:08
to the Lord and and it and I I was saying,
7:12
you know, God, why? I mean, why are you giving me this burden
7:16
and you haven't touched any of their hearts about it?
7:19
And and I'm not saying God.
7:21
~ spoke to me out loud. I I'm not,
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Mm-hmm, mm-hmm.
7:24
but I sensed
7:25
the Lord saying to me, Jeff, that's why I gave you to them.
7:30
you see, God
7:31
~
7:31
gives the burden to the pastor so that the pastor can employ that burden
7:38
on on the people. And it's it's part of our responsibility.
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God God wasn't just building my church and our leaders and
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he was literally building me and my leadership.
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And so ~
7:52
Mm.
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he gives the burden first to the pastor and and allows the people
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to ~ come around to that leadership.
8:02
That's that's what ~ leadership is all about.
8:05
So leadership in the church is often a long,
8:08
patient, but I I like this word persistent process.
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I mean it it it's you know, it patient it is.
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Critical. You can't push people.
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But
8:21
Yeah.
8:21
just giving up isn't good either.
8:24
And we have to be persistent. And I I I must say at the very beginning,
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although I know ~ the couple that ~ is behind this email,
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I really don't know a lot about their circumstances,
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and I I am in no way in the way I'm answering these specific questions you're giving
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me ~ implying anything about them.
8:48
Hmm.
8:48
~ I
8:49
I just know that ~ leadership in general
8:53
is that ~ slow, ~ persistent process.
8:58
It demands building relationships with the people that we're ~ leading.
9:04
It demands that we show our heart and then literally praying that God would
9:08
use us to effectively lay that burden on other people's hearts.
9:14
Yeah, yeah, amen. it it's changing
9:20
a culture, molding a culture is not an easy thing.
9:27
And ~ one of the issues is ~ and I'm
9:33
not trying to besmirch the senior pastor of this church.
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I don't know him, I don't even know the name of the church,
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but all the leadership and at the very top of the leadership everybody
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has to be bought in.
9:44
Absolutely. That's what culture is.
9:44
~ you yes.
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I mean culture is
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we all buy into this concept.
9:52
Yes. very much. So much rises and falls on leadership,
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and I mean the very most senior leadership.
9:57
And so it ha the leadership all has to be together and bought in before
10:02
you can expect the church to be bought in.
10:04
~ so Jeff,
10:07
how would you distinguish between a church that is unwilling to evangelize
10:12
and a church that simply hasn't been taught and modeled how to evangelize?
10:15
'Cause it sounds like he's trying to teach and he's modeling it,
10:18
~ you know.
10:22
Yeah. I I I think John i is is definitely working towards
10:27
~ modeling ~ and doing ~ good at ~ training.
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I I do think in general, the first step is determining,
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you know, what's what's wrong.
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how how is it?
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I mean, I sometimes it's almost impossible to figure out,
10:45
but sometimes you look at a circumstance and you just say,
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Okay, I get it. I I know why this isn't
10:52
~ happening and so I think that's really the first step.
10:55
we really have
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to recognize and we have
11:03
to effectively show people. It's not enough for us to to just tell them.
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We have to show them and I think that we have to ~ we have
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to show them by connecting relationally to them.
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So in other words we're
11:21
We're talking about relational evangelism where I connect with a lost person,
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show them who Jesus is, and in the process of doing so,
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help them to love him as much as I do.
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The same thing is true with the people we lead in church.
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~
11:37
Mm.
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we have to form connections with them.
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So it's not enough to say things from the pulpit,
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it's not enough to ~ just do ~ the right things.
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We have to form connections with them and and then
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~ we have to ask God to begin
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to let them ~ appreciate ~ our heart and what we're doing here.
12:01
Does it does that make sense?
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Hundred percent. We've said this a bajillion times,
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basically, people don't care how much you know until they know how much you care.
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~ when when people know you love them,
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they know the motive behind your ~ what you're encouraging them
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to do, you know, that course of action you're you're kind of modeling for them.
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When they don't and I'm not saying that ~
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These this couple is not loving the church.
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I imagine they are. I mean, the the fact that they're this concerned,
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even though when he's already kind of looking at transitioning
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to a different ministry in a different role,
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the fact that they're still concerned that in leaving the church,
12:42
the church will be left in this state,
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shows me that they really love these people.
12:46
Yeah. Yeah.
12:46
~
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it's just a matter of like we disciple an unbeliever,
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so we disciple ~ believers around us.
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And ~ one of the things that's impressed me,
12:57
Jeff, is you know, like people say you don't.
13:00
teach a training course on living the exchange.
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It's because it's the same model of discipleship.
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Unbeliever and believer, you're doing the same thing.
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They're just at a different point in their life.
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Absolutely, absolutely. I I ~ I feel that probably
13:17
in in most cases, and I'm not saying this in this specific case,
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but in most cases, ~ Christians get excited about seeing new Christians.
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And if we can ~ begin to help them
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see ~ people trusting Christ coming into the church,
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being baptized, becoming active.
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attenders and eventually active members in the church.
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~ That that's really going to awaken people.
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And frankly, ~ if it's not awakening people,
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then it's possible this these people are not going to be awakened.
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I don't know if you remember, but in ~ I
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the the name of the book just s ~ escaped me but it ~
14:04
the ~ and it's not coming back.
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I'm so sorry.
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That's okay.
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I
14:11
I read a book once in which the author was talking about talking to some
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of his people as a pastor, and one of the men just simply said,
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I co I just don't care about the people on the other side of the world.
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Why would I want to go there and help them?
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Mm.
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And ~
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I ~ they're just in some places we're not going to be able
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to effectively move people. ~ I I
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So I I just think we have to figure I mean,
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there's no silver bullet. And frankly,
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Right.
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just like not everybody I give the gospel to is going to be saved,
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not every church is going to become the light and the dark world the Lord wants them
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to become.
14:56
I I think you're exactly right,
14:57
Jeff, because the the problem actually could be way upstream.
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If somebody who says, I don't care about the other people on the other side
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of the world, they ha there is a problem in their relationship with God.
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God said, If you love me, you will love others.
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~ So
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Yeah, I no no question. And ~ so I think we have to
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~ think in terms of ~ we really in this situation
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we don't know which that is and I think that we just
15:27
Right.
15:27
have to ~ recognize that we as God's people have to discern those things
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for ourselves. Nobody else can tell us.
15:34
Right.
15:35
Yeah, I think you're right. So looking at our email,
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the church there seems to define evangelism primarily as door knocking,
15:43
passing out tracks. We're not against tracks.
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You know, we sell tracks on our website,
15:47
inviting people to church, special outreach events.
15:51
~ as you look at that, Jeff, what would you say is missing
15:55
~ when we define evangelism primarily around programs?
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I know you have a great answer to this.
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So
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go tell
16:04
Yeah.
16:04
us, tell us about the distinction there.
16:07
Well, I I think when Jesus said go and make disciples,
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the the terminology underneath of that is while you are going,
16:17
be making disciples. This is a lifestyle.
16:20
Mm, mm.
16:20
This is not
16:21
just something I do once a week and I fulfilled my obligation.
16:26
You know, when Jesus walked through the crowds,
16:29
he walked slowly through those crowds and he recognized ~ needs of
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Every single person they saw. Now,
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obviously, I'm not gonna recognize needs of every single person,
16:40
not God, but I can walk slowly enough through the crowd in which
16:45
I begin to recognize specific needs of specific people.
16:48
~ I I feel like sometimes when it comes to event-oriented evangelism,
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you know, let's get everybody to come to this event.
16:58
~ really what we've said is.
17:00
we're gonna get the professional to get the gospel.
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That's the best way to get people saved.
17:05
And you know, there are people who are gifted at evangelism far greater than I am,
17:11
and I I totally believe in that.
17:14
But I also believe that God gave to every single individual
17:19
the Holy Spirit residing inside of us.
17:22
Jesus said for a reason, it is to your advantage that I go away because
17:27
the Holy Spirit is coming, and the implication being.
17:30
that this is not about even the best evangelist,
17:33
Jesus, being able
17:35
Right.
17:35
to preach the gospel. This is about every single person going through life
17:40
to preach the gospel.
17:42
Yep. Yeah, I I think sometimes as Christians,
17:44
it's like me with the weeds in my backyard.
17:50
I kind of come home sometimes.
17:52
I just wish that I can come home and it'll just be somebody else will do it.
17:56
But that is not gonna change the situation back there.
18:00
It doesn't happen, does it, George?
18:00
Does
18:02
not happen. ~ we are all gonna give account on to Christ.
18:09
As to whether we obeyed this command he gave us or not.
18:13
I mean, that's the reality. We will stand by ourselves and our pastor won't
18:16
be there to answer for us. And he's gonna ask us,
18:19
Did you do this? let me ask another question,
18:24
kind of playing off that a little bit.
18:26
Because we see yeah, yeah, yeah,
18:27
Can I get you to pause for a minute?
18:29
yeah.
18:30
Thank you. You can ask another question in just a second.
18:33
I'm going to come back in just a minute.
18:35
Yeah, you're good.
20:01
All right, I'm back. Sorry about that.
20:05
~ no problem. All good.
20:07
You're
20:07
gonna have to back up and ask that question again.
20:10
Yeah, no problem. ~
20:14
Is door knocking wrong or do you feel like it's just a substitute
20:20
for some people because they don't want to develop a genuine relationship
20:24
or one on one relationship?
20:26
Yeah, I door knocking is not wrong.
20:29
~ I I mean it frankly,
20:33
I started a church forty years ago and I have knocked
20:39
on thousands of doors in my lifetime.
20:42
many, many I mean, th it I would just
20:46
say if in our ring doorbell,
20:51
no soliciting culture.
20:54
There are more
20:54
Yes.
20:54
effective ways to touch the world with the message of Jesus.
20:58
And so I I mean, I but but is it wrong?
21:01
Absolutely not. I have a I have a pastor friend.
21:05
He frankly is extremely effective at connecting with people.
21:09
He really shares his faith ~ often.
21:14
~ he has had multiple people join
21:19
his church through salvation and baptism.
21:23
~ I mean, this is not a guy who who isn't ~ urgent in wanting
21:30
to see people saved and and that sort of thing.
21:33
Mm.
21:33
when he gets to these dry and I d I don't know whether you feel this way or not,
21:37
George, but I think all of us go through dry spells in terms
21:41
of relationships with lost people.
21:42
It's like we get focused
21:43
Right.
21:44
in on something besides evangelism and before we know it,
21:49
we we're not really working on seeing someone come to Christ and
21:53
When he gets to those dry spells and he doesn't have contacts,
21:56
he often goes through the neighborhood around the church
22:00
and just introduces himself, expresses his desire to be of a help to his community,
22:04
offers to pray for them. And actually what he's doing at that door
22:09
is trying to develop genuine relationships with them.
22:12
So I it it can be an excuse,
22:16
but it it
22:17
Mm.
22:18
you know I'm gonna do that instead of ~ I I
22:22
I feel like sometimes even though people know it's not gonna work very
22:29
well, they still demand to do it just because they feel duty bound.
22:33
And I just think,
22:34
Right.
22:35
you know, let's let's just find a way in which we can reach people that's going
22:40
to be a little more effective.
22:43
Right. ~
22:46
I think you do a there there's a great thing on the homepage of the website,
22:49
exchangemessage.org, on on the differences between programmatic evangelism
22:54
and relational evangelism. And I think that's the philosophy that under
22:58
ge GERDs and guides ~ our approach to this.
23:02
there is a difference between doing evangelistic activity,
23:09
whether that's door knocking events or whatever else,
23:13
and
23:15
actually living evangelistically.
23:17
~ could
23:18
Yes, exactly.
23:18
could you
23:18
kind of work through that? How would you help somebody understand that?
23:24
I I feel like living evangelistically is ~
23:29
l walking slowly through the crowd,
23:32
~ trying to connect with as many people as we possibly can,
23:37
engage in conversation with as many people as we can,
23:40
take conversations deeper ~ every time we get a chance.
23:44
So I mean there's this there's this lifestyle of getting to the gospel through soul
23:51
needs.
23:52
that just engulfs us. We just live that way everywhere.
23:57
I I feel like ~ in the situation that we're talking about,
24:01
how do we do that in a church?
24:04
I and I think there's two steps.
24:06
We have to model it and then we have to actually train it.
24:09
In other words, people don't this is not it's not natural to our flesh.
24:14
I mean my flesh gets busy, it gets ~ preoccupied,
24:18
it gets ~ focused on something else.
24:21
I mean there
24:22
I I have to I have to do it on purpose and I have to help our people
24:26
do it on purpose. And and frankly,
24:28
~ just we're telling people you have
24:35
to get into the gospel. If if we haven't thought through a process
24:38
or a strategy that's gonna actually get us there,
24:41
it's not it's not even usually possible for people.
24:44
And so helping people number one,
24:47
see it in our own life, and then number two,
24:49
learn the tools to be able to
24:52
Make conversations happen.
24:57
Yes, it's like it's not about what you're doing,
25:00
it's about identity. Sometimes I think we are answering the wrong question,
25:03
right? We're saying, What should they do?
25:05
And the question is, this is not a this is not a question of what.
25:08
This is a question of who are you?
25:10
This is an identity thing. You an evangelist is a type of person,
25:15
it is not just an activity. The activity is the fruit of the type
25:19
of person that person is
25:21
And that's why we say some of these issues are upstream.
25:23
It has to do with how people see God.
25:25
~ be because i if if people see God as evangelistic,
25:31
as somebody who's interested in evangelism,
25:33
then they'll realize the why behind what they're doing.
25:36
And sometimes we start with what,
25:37
we're really eager to answer what and how to do it,
25:40
and we forget the why. And really,
25:42
why is I think where we're we should start.
25:44
Yeah. Yeah.
25:46
Yeah. it just seems to me that.
25:51
People feel like relationships and being evangelistic on
25:56
the platform of relationship is harder than handing out a track,
25:59
which is funny because I actually now find relationships easier than handing
26:03
out a track. ~ just approaching somebody cold like that,
26:07
you know, just off the street,
26:08
not knowing them. ~ why do you think some people find this so hard and kind
26:13
of shy away from it?
26:15
Yeah. Well, ~ I think y to to your point,
26:19
rel relational evangelism is easier because ~ you get to the place where someone
26:26
wants you to talk to them about Jesus because of the relationship.
26:30
But I the the I think I knew you were gonna ask me this question,
26:35
so I kinda thought through it.
26:36
I think first of all, it takes a lot more time and effort to build
26:40
a relationship with people.
26:42
than it does just to simply knock on the door and tell them something they don't
26:45
want to hear. And so ~ I I think it's the time and effort that is a problem.
26:50
I think the other thing is we have to live what we preach,
26:53
so to speak. And so ~ it it's not enough I mean,
26:57
I can go and knock on someone's door and tell them something and they only
27:01
get this one moment of impression from me.
27:04
But if I'm building a relationship with them,
27:07
I have to actually live Jesus in front of them all the time.
27:12
~
27:12
Yes.
27:13
so ~ I I just think I can't really even say
27:19
any of that without adding to it.
27:21
And also you'll be invested in the long term of that person's life
27:27
and you're gonna literally build be building lifelong ~ relationships as a result.
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I mean to me there is there is no other better lifestyle than living this lifestyle
27:38
of building relationships with people that I can help ~
27:41
With their relationship with Jesus.
27:44
So then comes the million dollar question.
27:48
What does a genuinely evangelistic church culture look like?
27:55
I think this is probably a question that thousands of pastors and
28:00
~ people in churches and the pews have of
28:03
Yeah.
28:04
and not just what it looks like,
28:05
but how to get there. But I know we only have a couple minutes,
28:08
so we might have to pick this up the rest of the way next week,
28:12
but go ahead. W
28:14
maybe start us off, what does that even look like,
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a culture like that?
28:17
Well I actually have this conversation with pastors in
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a sit-down one-on-one meeting,
28:22
~ almost on a weekly basis. And you know,
28:27
there's all kinds of things. There's a shared burden,
28:32
there's a shared vocabulary, the the that's what culture is.
28:35
I mean culture ~ is is when we share those culture those ~ heart
28:42
~ felt burdens. But frankly, you can see it,
28:45
you can recognize it when the hubbub in the lobby is ~ about meeting the coworker.
28:51
I'm gonna have meeting with my coworker this week over coffee,
28:54
be praying for me. ~ the chatting before church is is about praying
29:00
for a neighbor or a family member,
29:01
pray for me. ~ pray for the fellowship after the service is about wanting
29:07
to apply the message to a situation with a friend that I have
29:11
from the gym. You know, those when we find those kinds of conversations
29:16
in small group, in ~ in the lobby of the church,
29:20
~ that's that's really when we begin to see the culture shifting.
29:27
I I feel like ~ discipl discipleship ~ when when
29:33
the church starts taking discipleship seriously
29:37
So in other words, it's not enough to just say I'm going to see people saved.
29:41
That's evangelism.
29:41
Hm.
29:42
But disciple making, what God's called us to,
29:45
is far deeper than that. And so when a church begins to
29:49
get serious about discipleship,
29:51
when a church is seeing adults baptized
29:56
~ in their in their services, those those are the things that's going
30:01
to begin to say this church is developing that culture.
30:06
Hm. Yeah, I I I think you're right.
30:09
~ there is fruit marked evidence of what an evangelistic church looks like.
30:16
I mean, the biggest thing is evangelistic churches grow.
30:21
And they grow organically. ~ churches that aren't evangelistic
30:28
are are usually churches that struggle with growth or are simply doing what
30:32
I would call sheep trading with other churches.
30:35
and the most exciting thing in a church is when
30:41
the church sees people one to Christ.
30:43
I mean, when they see that fruit and get a taste of that fruit,
30:46
they will want more.
30:48
Yeah.
30:48
And I think that's what leads to.
30:50
to a continued sustained culture.
30:53
Absolutely.
30:54
Absolutely. I I appreciate you adding those things because I agree with
30:57
you a hundred percent.
30:59
Yeah, I I think it's it's very interesting all this the stuff we think about
31:03
as pastors all the time, but ~ but it's good for people in the pew to think about
31:08
it too, because the you're you are the church.
31:10
~ the church is not just the sum of the leadership and it is not the building,
31:14
it is the people. So we'll have to pick this up next week.
31:18
Erica, great question because we have about eighteen more pages of content.
31:23
So this is probably gonna be a three part series for everybody in the audience.
31:28
But
31:29
we
31:29
we love you guys. Pray to the Lord of the harvest.
31:32
I want encourage Erica and her husband,
31:34
pray to the Lord of the harvest that he would send forth laborers.
31:37
So one thing you can't skip in building a culture of evangelism in your church,
31:41
it is the most important ingredient,
31:43
I would say, right alongside of truth is prayer.
31:47
~ if God's not in it and he doesn't come down and touch it,
31:50
it won't take off. So
31:53
Absolutely, absolutely. And frankly,
31:55
for those of you who are listening today who ~ are are kind of thinking about we're
32:01
talking about ~ pastors and pastor discouragement,
32:04
would would you just remember to to pray for your pastor?
32:08
Mm-hmm.
32:08
being a pastor is a hard thing
32:11
and pastors need people in their church
32:17
who are praying for them. They need people in their church
32:19
Yes.
32:20
who are relentlessly encouraging them.
32:22
And I would just urge
32:23
Yes.
32:23
all of you, ~ just take it upon yourself.
32:27
I want to be that person for my pastor.
32:30
Hmm, love it. ~ well,
32:34
pray with us, like I said, as we pray to the Lord of the harvest.
32:38
Keep going. Subscribe if you haven't already.
32:41
Share this episode with your pastor,
32:43
share it with people in your church,
32:45
and if you've got more questions,
32:48
email us George at exchangemessage.org.
32:51
G E O R G E at exchangemessage.org.
32:55
All one word. We love you guys.
32:58
We'll see you next week.