Latest / The QuadCast / S7 E11 - How To Fall Up... With My Friend, Hashim Garrett
Transcript
- John McAleavey: Hashim Garrett, welcome to the quadcast. Hashim Garrett: Thanks for having me. John McAleavey: We've been kicking around some dates and some ideas and when we're gonna get together and today is finally the day and I I'd like to thank Dr. Trevor Dyson Hudson for for reminding me, hey John, you haven't had Hashim on yet, so we Hashim Garrett: Mm-hmm. John McAleavey: we put that together and we got a kick out of that, but he's a great guy and so I'm glad the day is finally here and th that that you're gonna join me for the next forty five minutes or so. And what I usually like to do with my shows is sorta begin at the beginning. So if you could, Hashim, tell us Where did you grow up and what were some things you were interested in in your youth? Hashim Garrett: Sure. sure. Well again, pleasure to to be on your show. so I grew up in Brooklyn, New York. And one of the things that I enjoy doing the most, you know, so I grew up in the eighties and you know, video games were new on the scene and so, you know, playing video games was a hobby of mine. and then when, you know, but but back then really all the fun was outside, right? It wasn't really about being indoors. but really I enjoyed, you know, bike riding with my friends and you know, roller skating. I I wasn't really good playing basketball. That wasn't that wasn't my forte. I was a pretty fast kid. I used to like to run a lot and you know, tag, things like that. Just kind of like, you know, when when I was growing up, you could literally make fun out of anything, you know? Like we we had a game that we would play. it was called Skelly. anybody growing up in New York City probably is familiar with it where you get a top like, you know, from a a water bottle or you know water bottles, but like milk carton or a milk top and you you put wax in it and you would skip it on the ground and that was it. You know, just simple things. You know, give me a cap and some wax and we had a John McAleavey: Right? That's right. Hashim Garrett: game and handball or so you know, in New York City it was just a lot of good stuff to do, but just always hanging outside with friends and yeah, it was a high mo yeah, John McAleavey: Yeah. The simple things, right? Hashim Garrett: exactly. A stick and a ball. You know, you know, so John McAleavey: You know, it's funny I c I can remember one of the last times I saw George Carlin, the comedian, and he was on Hashim Garrett: Hm. John McAleavey: and he used to rail about how, you know, parents were getting involved in everything and you have play dates now and you have to set everything up and he said, Jeez, don't kids go outside and play with sticks anymore? He said, I think parents in and the world they've outlawed sticks. There's no more sticks allowed. But yeah, it's true. And and that that was back in the days when, you know, you would you would know that at a certain point it was just time to get home for dinner, right? I mean it wasn't like we had cell phone Hashim Garrett: Exactly. Yeah, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: it was it was usually two things. It was the the proverbial lights were on or my friends would look up and they go, Your mother's in the window. So if my mother was in the window, that was like, all right, I gotta go. Yeah, John McAleavey: Get your butt home, pull. Hashim Garrett: yeah, that was it. Your mother's in the window. And so, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: you know, you run upstairs and that was it. Yep. So those those John McAleavey: That's right. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: those were those are like the highlights of just growing up in New York. John McAleavey: Sure. Speaking of your mother, did di I'm sure she was also, but did you have any, you know, folks that around you growing up that were influences on your life that sort of kind of shaped who a young Hashim was? Hashim Garrett: Yeah, I think you know, I I I think in hindsight I have more people than I I probably realized in the moment. You know, obviously my mom and my dad, you know, parents are were big, you know, instrumental figures, but I I kinda think back to my grandmother, you know, and and so when I was going to visit her in the other part of Brooklyn, you know, whenever we walked into her house, it was always you went straight to the bathroom and washed your hands. You couldn't like John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Hashim Garrett: you couldn't go to the refrigerator. You would say hello to everybody, but you just made a beeline straight. You had to wash your hands. I was just a, you know, and it was always speak and say hello and da-da-da. And John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: all of those little nuances of mannerism really shaped me as an adult, right? And so, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: but in the moment I had no idea. And all my cousins and everybody knew there was a certain rule that you had to follow, and you washed the dishes after you whatever you ate, you washed. And so those little things that I I find that I I carry on even now, right? Just John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: but but yeah, definitely my my parents, my grandparents and uncles and you know, th those people definitely left the imprint on how I John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: conduct myself. John McAleavey: Very important. You know, you think back you mentioned at the time Hashim Garrett: Mm-hmm. John McAleavey: you didn't realize it was happening and little did you know in the background it was shaping who you were and who you are today. Hashim Garrett: The and the John McAleavey: Great stuff. Well, now I'd like to turn the tides and sort of bring us back to kind of what we're all here together about to speak about today and you know what we have in common we have a lot in common, but one thing that we do have in common is is a spinal cord injury. So if you could, shim, tell us about the day that changed your life. What do you remember before, during and in the in the immediate aftermath of the day that you were injured? Hashim Garrett: so I would say before so I was fifteen years old when I sustained my spinal cord injury and the the the days leading up to it, I was I was kinda like as some people would say like a wayward kid at that stage of my life. I was a teenager and I was really rebellious. I I I had been bullied when I was a little bit younger and Somewhere along the way I had this bright idea to kind of like befriend the bullies. And so you know if you can't beat them, join them. So I I kind of was, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: you know, kind of trying to figure out my way as a as a teenager and just I was making a lot of poor decisions. And so my mom and my dad, probably about two days before my injury, they sat me down and they were saying, you know. My mom was really just concerned about the decisions that I was making. I was in the tenth grade at that point. And she said, We're gonna move to Atlanta, Georgia, in about three days. And so that was I guess like a Saturday or Sunday, we had this conversation. So if you fast forward forty eight hours, let's say Monday was Ma Monday, May seventh, I was in the house all day. And my mom told me you don't have to go to school a day because, you know, she had already resigned from her job and she was, you know, going out and purchasing the U-Haul boxes and packing up the house and just making arrangements John McAleavey: Right. Hashim Garrett: for us to relocate, literally in a in a day or two. John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: And so that evening, it was probably about seven o'clock in the evening, I my my so-called friends of my mom had been telling me not to associate myself with and not to hang out with these guys anymore. They knocked on the door and they asked me to go outside and I went outside with them and I would say probably within twenty minutes of me standing outside talking with them, John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Hashim Garrett: a kid walked up with a gun and started shooting and I I I I sustained John McAleavey: gosh. Hashim Garrett: my spinal cord injury as a result of a gunshot wound. And I'll never forget that, you know, that moment of laying on the ground and, you know, not realizing like I I I did not know I had a spinal cord injury, but I knew I couldn't move my legs and I know I John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: I couldn't feel anything and just being, you know, this little kid, fifteen years old, and just the the the fear that that gripped me, the unknown of whether am I gonna die and why can't I move my legs and w is the person who John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: shot me are they coming back? Just all of these different things circulating in my head. I'll never forget I was laying on the ground and I just said, God, please don't let me die. And I felt a John McAleavey: Right. Hashim Garrett: I felt a a a piece come over me that is that was truly hard to to describe to anyone, but this this piece of just everything was gonna be fine when I called out to God. And so I waited and the ambulance arrived and took me to the hospital. and so that that moment really changed my life. Obviously, one physically, you know, physically John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: life was never gonna be the same again. But then just you know, existentially, spiritually, something also made a imprint on me in that moment too, just because that peace, that peace in the midst of the chaos, in the midst of the storm has always, I think, helped to kind of like ground me a little bit to let me know even in my darkest, most turbulent, most uncertain and scary times, there there's peace can be present there. You know, a storm John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: but just as quickly as a storm can come, a storm can go. And so it just kinda grounds me to let me know that, you know, even when things look really bleak and dark, you're not alone and and and John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: help help is not far away. John McAleavey: That's amazing for someone at fifteen to be so mature in in that in that moment. I I don't know whether I would have been able to come to grips with that. I mean that's that's pretty pretty amazing. and and from there, Hashim, where did where did they take you? Did they take you straight to the hospital and then once you got there and and I'd have to ask when your family found out and how that all went down, was that that must have been tough, obviously. Hashim Garrett: Yeah, yeah. Well I'll I'll I'll tell you, so my mom she found out right away. My you know, people from the neighborhood went and got her, she was home and you know, when the EMS workers were transporting me in the hospital, I nearly died in the back of that ambulance because I was shot multiple times and all John McAleavey: Hm. Hashim Garrett: of the bullets, you know, they they not only entered but they also exited my body. So I had multiple gunshot wounds. And so John McAleavey: okay. Hmm. Hashim Garrett: while I was en route to the hospital, You know, I had this out of body experience, soul leaving my body. And, you know, thankfully, my while I was, you know, while they were transporting me, my mom was just, you know, hysterical because she could hear the EMS workers just saying, we're losing them, we're losing them. You know, we can't get his BP, we're John McAleavey: Dear God. Hashim Garrett: losing them. And my mom's in the front seat of the ambulance. And I can hear her as my soul is leaving my body, John. I can hear her. And she just she was she she was uttering, she said, you know, I told him to take out the garbage, I told him to wash the dishes, I told him to take the movies back. You know, and those were chores that I was supposed to have done that day. And I just remember as she was yelling about those chores and crying, I just remember John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: saying, Mom, be quiet. I remember thinking it at least, and my soul goes John McAleavey: Of course. Hashim Garrett: back into my body. And so so John McAleavey: Wow. Hashim Garrett: so so as they rushed me to the hospital, the the hospital that I went to was Brookdale Hospital in in a John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: in another part of Brooklyn. And I often tell people that the the emergency room of the hospital for someone who sustained, you know, a traumatic injury. It kinda reminds you of a NAS car pit when they pull a a car in and they converge on it moving and moving moving and they're shipping it. John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Hashim Garrett: That's literally like what it's like because, you know, the doctors and the nurses and the EMS and the police, they're all there. What's gonna go what happened? Who did this? And they're like get to the operating room and too Yeah, put them on a lift moving, keep moving, you know? And John McAleavey: Put on the lift, get up in the air. Hashim Garrett: and and so but My mom was right there every step of the way. You know, when they said rush up to the operating room, you know, she's right there holding my hand on the elevator as we're going up to the operating room. John McAleavey: That's great. Hashim Garrett: And then, you know, when I'm when I get out the operating room, she's sitting right there at my bedside in the ICU. You know, so yeah, she she she and my dad were constant presence, you know, constant presence while I was in that hospital. at Brookdale John McAleavey: That's terrific. Hashim Garrett: for about twenty-eight days I was an inpatient. John McAleavey: Okay, okay. And what did the doctors tell you? I mean, aside from the the the you know, almost dying, you know, from the gunshot Hashim Garrett: Mm. John McAleavey: wounds, what did they tell you about the injury that you had sustained and and what life might look like f here too forward? I mean, did they tell you it right away that it's a complete injury and you're you're not gonna walk again? Did that conversation happen there? Hashim Garrett: No, well, in the emergency room, they told me he's paralyzed. I I don't know, I don't even know if they were talking to me, but they just asked, can you feel this? Can you is it can you feel this? And how you know the the sharp and the dull and the hot and the cold? And I said no. And they said, you know, John McAleavey: I hate that. Yeah, yeah. Hashim Garrett: they said, okay, he's paralyzed. I had no idea. I'm 15 years old. I didn't even know what that word meant at the time. And so John McAleavey: Right, right. Hashim Garrett: then when I was an actual inpatient at Brookdale, no doctors really told me. I don't ever recall anybody saying that I was paralyzed. I don't recall them saying that for those twenty days. John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: and I'm sure the word paralysis came up. I'm sure it did. But you know, I was just like in a in a in a state of confusion and pain. But I do recall John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: one doctor one day, I don't know if he was a resident, but he just walked in my room and my mom and I, we were in the room and I said, I'm having this pain. This pain John McAleavey: Mm. Hashim Garrett: is this pain in my leg and it keeps throbbing, it's hurting. John McAleavey: Wow. Hashim Garrett: And he was so callous, John. He walked in and he was like, all of the muscles in your bone all of the muscles in your legs are gonna shrivel up and die. And he walked out the room. And my mother and John McAleavey: wow. Hashim Garrett: I, yeah, my mom and I, we just looked at each other. It was literally like all of the air just got sucked out of the room. And and I was like, you know, yeah, John McAleavey: Of course it did. I don't want to see that guy again. Hashim Garrett: I don't I don't know, I don't you know, and and so that was a hard pill to swallow. But then when I was discharged from Brookdale, I went to NYU at Rusk Institute on Thirty Fourth Street and First Avenue. And there Yeah, yeah. I went to Rusk and I John McAleavey: Okay. Okay. That's my next question. Where did you rehab? Yeah, is that where you went? You went to Rusk? Wow. Wow. Hashim Garrett: met a I've I met a phenomenal my my pediatrician at that time. well I guess my physiatrist, not my pediatrician, but my p physiatrist. She her name was Dr. Joan Gold, a phenomenal, John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: phenomenal phenomenal doctor out in NYU. And John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: She she, you know, I remember w I was there for about five months, inpatient, and John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Hashim Garrett: mom and you know, dad came by and cousins and friends came to visit me every week. But she told me when I was discharged, she gave me a a form that just kind of highlighted the things I will be able to do and the things that I may have a little trouble with. And John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: I I found that to be extremely hopeful, it made me hopeful. John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: It made me optimistic because it just let me know that there was light at the end of the tunnel that, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: you know, you you can and that and that was one of the things that she sent me off with just saying, There's a lot that you can accomplish and I expect you to accomplish these things. You know, and I was just like, All right, Doc, got it. You know, those are my marching John McAleavey: Sure, sure. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: orders. You know, so kinda like pick your head up, you're gonna do really well in life. You know? Yeah. John McAleavey: No doubt. And I forget I forgot to ask you, what was the year that this all happened? Hashim Garrett: nineteen ninety. Yeah, yeah. Dinosaurs dinosaurs were present, you know, then there was there were there were dinosaurs roaming the earth when I was shocked. Mm-hmm. John McAleavey: Okay. So yeah. You Yeah. Well you've got two years on me. I was ninety two at the time. And so yeah, we're Hashim Garrett: Mm-hmm. John McAleavey: we're pretty much in that same swing path together. Hashim Garrett: Yeah, yeah. John McAleavey: so a and what you brought up is so true and and you know working at Kessler today it's so different. I mean I spent just about five months rehabbing at Kessler and you did five at Rusk. Now, you know, people on our wing, if they get five weeks, shim, that's a lifetime. So Hashim Garrett: Yeah, I know. Yeah. John McAleavey: it's it's changed so dramatically and so drastically. I don't know how First of all the the patient is able to to do it in five weeks. But not only that, but the family members. You're taking Hashim Garrett: Right, right. Yeah. John McAleavey: home some people who, you know, in a lot of cases are are high quads that are complete Hashim Garrett: Hm. John McAleavey: and you're talking hoe your lifts and getting them in and out of bed and feeding them and showering them and dressing them and changing your house drastically and putting the showers and it's just like they have this look on their face like, my god, what are we doing here? And you're sending them home right now? It's it's Hashim Garrett: Right, right, right, right. John McAleavey: it's frightening. It really is Hashim Garrett: Yeah, John McAleavey: frightening. Hashim Garrett: it really is. I met a patient a few days ago and he was at Kessler and he was getting John McAleavey: Uh-huh. Hashim Garrett: he was getting discharged and he was injured a month ago. So that means he not John McAleavey: Yeah, it's Hashim Garrett: only he was at the trauma center, like his trauma unit and at Kessler all within one month. And he was John McAleavey: Nuts. Hashim Garrett: on his way getting discharged like in a week. I was like I th John McAleavey: It's crazy. Hashim Garrett: I I I couldn't even fathom like the speed of how all of this is happening that yeah, I I couldn't do it. It's it's truly, truly unfortunate. John McAleavey: Yeah. Couldn't do it. Couldn't do it. How you s you've sorta hit on it already, but how important were your family members and and your friends to to your recovery? I know I could have never done it by myself and there were people that were with me in that were there and they were by themselves. I mean they had maybe one or two people come and visit over like a couple of month span and I I I could not have done that and I d I don't know how these people rehabbed during COVID where then what he was allowed in the building and so, you Hashim Garrett: Hmm. Wow. John McAleavey: know, that's a whole nother ball of wax. But how important was having that, you know, familial and friendly touch when you were in there? Hashim Garrett: definitely. I would say that was the cornerstone to to my recovery. My my mom and dad were at the hospital, you know, when I w the first hospital brook there, well, I was there twenty eight days. Mom was John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: there every day that she she you know, she was there every day and when she needed to go home to shower, dad came and they just literally took turns for twenty John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: eight days nonstop, never leaving my bedside and then When I was at NYU, Dr. Gold was like, Okay, that's not gonna happen here. You can't sleep here. You gotta go home, Mom. Let us do our work with him here. And that was John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: that was important. but then even afterwards, after being discharged, because that's the real that's where the rubber really meets the road, right? Now you gotta go home and and what's home like and is it accessible and you're John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: just trying to find your bearing. And then I was really fortunate because I had cousins that came to visit me. every week, at and where 'cause we re we did not relocate to Atlanta, Georgia after my injury. John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: We, you know, we we were at NYU and funny little story about Dr. Gold, which I always truly treasure her so much is that when it was time for me to get discharged from Rusk, she asked my mom and dad, So where exactly is my patient gonna go home to? And mom and dad explained why we were supposed to move and Dr. Gold says, okay, understandable. You guys, that that plan got derailed. But so she said, my mom said, maybe we'll just go back to, you know, our own home, old apartment. And Dr. Gold, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: you know, asked, Okay, is it accessible? And mom said, No. So Dr. Gold goes, No, he can't go back there because I don't want people client taking him up the stairs. It was a four story walk up. And so my dad, he my John McAleavey: Right. geez. Hashim Garrett: dad chirped in and he said, Well, you know, I've got an apartment. In another part of Brooklyn, Dr. Gold says, Well, no, I don't really like that area too much. I think it's a little bit too violent, right? And Dr. John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Hashim Garrett: And so then my parents tell Dr. Gold, so what exactly do we do? And so Dr. Gold says, John McAleavey: Nie. Hashim Garrett: Just keep we'll we'll keep them here in the hospital for a little bit longer, right? And so my parents say, Well, we found an apartment in Jersey City. Now, John, this right John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: nineteen ninety. The internet doesn't exist, cell phones don't exist, right? And so my my parents, John McAleavey: Right. Exactly. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: you know, pick up the the the yellow pages and the telephone book and then a they say we found an apartment in Jersey City and don't you know John my beautiful doctor Dr. Joan Gold goes I'm gonna do some research on Jersey City she does some research and she goes I don't like Jersey City he's gonna stay here a little bit longer John McAleavey: Ha ha ha ha. Hashim Garrett: and so my parents say yeah yeah she John McAleavey: She's like a real estate agent and a travel agent. Hashim Garrett: listen listen but she really cared and I I always John McAleavey: She did. Hashim Garrett: appreciate it and she So the long story short, my parents said we found an apartment in in Bayonne, New Jersey, right next door John McAleavey: There you go. Hashim Garrett: and she said, I like it. You you can go home. Yeah, yeah. You c he c John McAleavey: You can go home there, I'll let you go. Hashim Garrett: I'll let you go now. So, but yeah, so I i it it was really like a tribe. I I I say parents, family members, relatives, Doctor Gold, the therapist, everybody really, really, you know, there's so many people the the list goes on and on who I really feel like played a major role in who I am today. John McAleavey: Yeah. When you were at NYU, was there a doctor there, doctor Ragnarsson? Christian Ragnarsson? Hashim Garrett: That name that name doesn't sound familiar, back then was John McAleavey: He was a guy that I think maybe he maybe he's been there for for a number of years now, but maybe Hashim Garrett: Okay. John McAleavey: not back as far back as the nineties. He was somebody to know that Doctor Kirschblum wanted me to go and see. He's a pretty pretty well renowned guy, physiatrist in the whole S CI world. And I know he was at there and he's been at a couple of other different places, but I Hashim Garrett: Okay. John McAleavey: can I can understand how maybe you missed him. Hashim Garrett: Yeah. John McAleavey: how about Hashim? You know, we talk about how these injuries take so much from us physically and and they do. I mean, I can't really use my upper body, my arms and my walking isn't all that great and obviously you use a you use a wheelchair these days. So they take so much from us physically. But what people don't realize is how they affect us mentally. Now how is a fifteen year old Hashim Garrett kind of coming to grips with like, My life just changed and it's not coming back the way that it was and so what what is the you know, the processing like when you're dealing with that laying in that bed at night? Hashim Garrett: a lot of denial, you know, a lot a lot of a lot of denial. John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: I I would say you know, not not so good coping skills, right? Smoking, marijuana, drinking and just, John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: you know, numbing the the mental pain, right? Maybe if I'm not if I'm not if I'm in a altered state, I don't have to deal with this, you know? John McAleavey: Exactly. Hashim Garrett: I I can just pretend that everything is fine and it's it yeah, it tricked John McAleavey: Yeah. Trick your mind, right? Hashim Garrett: my mind a little bit, right? And but then you have to come back to reality when you have to use the bathroom and when you you know now you know, now you yeah, John McAleavey: Right. Exactly. Hashim Garrett: you you were laughing too hard while you were smoking weed and now you peed your now you peed your pants. Like, that's that's not cool. So, you know, John McAleavey: Yeah. Exactly. Nah, exactly. Hashim Garrett: life life will constantly remind you, I'm here and at some point, Hashem, you're gonna have to deal with me. And so, and and and so you go, nope, not yet. And and but but there was th those moments of, you know, just realizing that it's going to take time, right? John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: And that that was the one thing I realized at a young age, fifteen, laying in Brookdale. I I can remember saying, Maybe in ten years I'll be able to deal with this. I can remember saying John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: that when I was fifteen, I was just saying, Maybe when I'm twenty five I'll be okay, right? Because John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: I I remember just thinking about all of the things that I can't do and I'll never be able to do. I can't do this. I can't do that. I can't and just feeling so, so low. John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: and and so just and and I I I the irony is that by the time I was twenty five, I think I was dealing with a little little bit better. But it took a long time and I'm thirty-six years in and I still have John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: those moments of thinking, yeah, I've John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: got this, I've got it all down packed, and then you go, Yeah. But d life can throw John McAleavey: I don't Hashim Garrett: you a curveball and no, you don't. And so, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: but I I just think it's been a combination of saying, okay, give yourself time, you know, keep John McAleavey: Yep. Hashim Garrett: praying on it. You've got family, you've got support. But John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: one thing that I have found to be helpful is trying to help other people has John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: I found to be helpful for me in whatever capacity that may look like. and and it's not always the healthiest thing, right? Because it allows me to put the focus on somebody else, but I'm still not doing the real work on me. You know? But John McAleavey: Right. Hashim Garrett: so it's but it's it's my new way of coping. Let me help you and I'm help John McAleavey: Well do you find your yeah do you find yourself telling other people all these things and then like while you're saying it in your head saying, Why don't I take my own advice on some of this stuff? Like who I'm a big talker over here telling this guy and I'm and I'm not doing it myself. Hashim Garrett: Obviously we must read from the same playbook, because that is the truth. That is the truth. That is the truth. Yeah, sometimes it's it's it's better to give the advice than to take it yourself. John McAleavey: We do. We do. Yeah. isn't that f Yeah. Yeah. We're big authorities, right? wow. Hashim Garrett: Mm-hmm. John McAleavey: Well ne next and this is what's really cool and you started to allude to this, but not soon after your injury you you found the courage to release anger and embrace healing. You recognize that true strength lies in forgiveness, which a lot of people Hashim Garrett: Mm. John McAleavey: are not able to do. And you found wisdom and understanding L L C. Tell us what that is and how proud are you of what it has become. Hashim Garrett: Wow. so wisdom and understanding I incorporated in two thousand and one, July two thousand and one. And it so how I even got into this line of work, I worked at Kessler from ninety five through two thousand and one as a as a coordinator for a program they had called Rise Above It. It was kinda like, you know, going John McAleavey: cool. Hashim Garrett: out into the schools and talking to kids about what causes violence and really at the core of it was to help young kids in the inner city to John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: prevent them from sustaining spinal cord injuries and teach them about violence. And so exactly. Yep. Yep. So the think first is John McAleavey: Now is that like the think first stuff that Jamil does now? Okay, probably a precursor to that. Hashim Garrett: cor well think first think first and rise above it was happening simultaneously. But think yeah, think John McAleavey: Okay, okay. Hashim Garrett: first was more about motor vehicle and diving accidents and things of that nature, right? John McAleavey: That's right. Yes. Hashim Garrett: And then Rise Above It was really focused on the violence component. And so John McAleavey: Gotcha. Hashim Garrett: you know funding came to an end and then in two thousand and one I just wanted to continue to do this work because I I found it to to just kinda like be my call in and I felt really John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: passionate about helping other kids, preventing them from having to experience the same things that I did. and so when I was laid off at Kessler in two thousand and one, I incorporated so I was laid off in May of two thousand and one and I incorporated wisdom and understanding in July, two months later. And really what I did is I was just going out in the schools and getting, you know It's all it sounds so easy now, but just getting contracts with school districts and talking to kids and John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: and so fast forward or probably about eight years into doing that, I was able to connect with an organization called Breaking the Cycle. And they're a they are an international motivational speaking company and they travel all over the world. And so they heard John McAleavey: Okay. Mm-hmm. Hashim Garrett: about me and they asked, Hey Hashem, would you be interested in partnering up with us and being one of our speakers? And I was like, yeah, sure. And they were like, yeah, but one of the things we really talk about is forgiveness. I was like, okay. And they was yeah, we heard you in an interview. You said you forgave the kid who shot you. And I was like, yeah, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: I do, but that's not something I talk about. But they said, but but you John McAleavey: Right, sure. Hashim Garrett: know, your your message we think could really it I think they were just saying to me that my message along with forgiveness could really be powerful for kids because a lot of kids just deal with stuff and don't know how to let things go. John McAleavey: Right. Hashim Garrett: and talk about it. but while I was work yeah, and John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. It would totally resonate with people, yeah. Hashim Garrett: so while I was working with this organization, I still work on to this day, there was a speaker, his name was detective Stephen McDonald, and he was NYPD police officer who was a touch of Plegia who and he he was one of those speakers. And so I got it Yeah, John McAleavey: Yeah, he just passed within the last couple of years, didn't he? Hashim Garrett: he did, he did in two thousand and eighteen. And so John McAleavey: Yeah, they used to bring him to the Rangers games I remember all the time. Yeah. Okay, sure. Hashim Garrett: All the time. Exactly. Yep. Yep. So so I I had a chance to work alongside him for many years. And he was really the main person that really opened my eyes to the power of forgiveness because he had a pretty high injury. and you he he would go and talk to his students and it would probably be like three thousand kids in an auditorium and John and you know he he was on a ventilator and he John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: had to take his take his time, but the kids were so patient and they were so so so engrossed in every word that he said. but what John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: what really struck me and moved me was that if he could get up in front of audiences and tell them that a 15 year old kid shot him and paralyzed him and and had he not forgiven him he said that had he not forgiven him the the the the cancer of like revenge would have finished him off, you know? And and I just John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Hashim Garrett: found his words to be so powerful that I was like, you know what? I'm gonna go out and start talking. I'm gonna tell people, yeah, a kid shot me and I forgave him and but forgiving John McAleavey: I can do this. Yep. Yep. Hashim Garrett: myself has been the ongoing challenge. But really, you know, Officer Stephen McDonald, my good friend, he really John McAleavey: Mm. Hashim Garrett: opened my eyes to how important that message is. John McAleavey: That's amazing. And so the the the main central message that you try to get across when you're doing your speaking is just that. It's that, you know, y you need to f forgive and not forgive and forget, but you need to to Hashim Garrett: No, yeah. Well John McAleavey: you want to remember but you need to you can't hold that grudge the whole your whole life. Hashim Garrett: Yeah, I mean it it's it's really layered, but you know, there's a quote that I read years ago, that really resonates with me and it's from Dr. Stephen Covey, the author of Seven Habits of Highly Effective People. And the John McAleavey: Right. Hashim Garrett: the quote goes, The way you see the problem can be the problem and it's about that paradigm shift of just kinda like looking at things through a different lens, right? To John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: like kind of put yourself in somebody else's shoes for a second and it it it it helps me to kind of really just stay grounded and realizing that there's always another there's another way of looking at things and that's what forgiveness is. It's just another John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: approach to how we can heal from trauma, heal from adversity. And that's really what it's about. It's just it's not saying that it's a quick fix. It's not saying that, you know, it's something that we we do one time and we never have to do it again. But it's it's really an important tool that many of John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: us struggle with implementing enough. You know, and so yeah, so to answer your John McAleavey: It's evolving, yeah. That's great. Hashim Garrett: question. John McAleavey: That's great. How about now you wear a lot of hats. You're not only a motivational speaker, but you're also an author. So Hashim Garrett: Right. Mm. John McAleavey: tell us about the book you wrote, How to Fall Up Fourteen Lessons Hashim Garrett: Right. John McAleavey: in Resilience from the Lives of Young People. This is awesome. Hashim Garrett: Yeah. Yep. So so this is the book How to Fall Up, right? And so it was always a a an idea that I had that I wanted to write a book and it I was able to actually finish it. And really how the the the concept came about is I was always going and talking to students in different communities and suburban and rural and inner city schools. And one of the things that I've often found is that one, Kids like stories, right? And this is why I'm on your your show now. It's like, tell us your story. Everybody John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: wants to hear somebody's story. And so what I did is I just kind of wrote 14 short stories, and each story really just deals with different situations that kids may people may find themselves in and trying to figure out how do I get from this place of uncertainty to clarity, right? And so there's something that's really I'm wrestling with that that's bothering me. But I don't know how to see my way out of it. And so s many of the stories involve mentors, you know, just kind of giving them words of wisdom and guiding them through it. Many of it is, you know, parents and friends and family, but everybody's going through every story, it starts out with somebody's going through something. And now we're gonna we're gonna follow this these this family or this person and see how they get through it. And so at the end of every story, there's some lessons learned. You know, and what can you do to apply it? you know, one of the stories is, you know, why do why do bad things happen to good people, right? That's something that we all wrestle with. Why? You know, John McAleavey: Yeah. They sure do. Hashim Garrett: right? And so there there's some lessons that we can learn, right? There's there's some lessons that we can learn in adversity. And and John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: so, but one of the things I've realized in life is that resilience, and this is the cornerstone of the book, is resilience has to be taught. Right? Somebody has to teach you how to overcome those rough moments in life. You know, we're not when i because if somebody doesn't teach us how to be resilient, then there's gonna be a polar opposite of somebody who's gonna teach us how to give in to adversity, right? And somebody's gonna say, Well, hey, you know, you could always smoke, hey, you could always drink, or you could always just tuck it under the rug and act like it doesn't exist. John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Exactly. Hashim Garrett: You know, but and so s we need somebody to just say, Hey, you know, if something bothers you, you know you can talk about it. You know, if something John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Hashim Garrett: bothers you, you know, you can pray about it. You know, if something bothers John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: you, you know, you can go to the gym and go take a John McAleavey: Right. Hashim Garrett: walk. But we need people to go, I didn't know John McAleavey: Go ahead. Hashim Garrett: that. Is that how you got through it? Yes, that's exactly how I got through it. Yeah, John McAleavey: A light bulb moment, right? Hashim Garrett: you go, I've got this epiphany and so, you know, and John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: and and We're we're a lot stronger than we realize. You know, human beings, we're John McAleavey: Sure. Hashim Garrett: a lot stronger. But sometimes we just need people to help us to we need people to remind us how strong we are and we need people to just kind of show us the way when we we're really feeling lost. And that's that's the John McAleavey: Sure. Hashim Garrett: the purpose of the book. John McAleavey: And what sort of feedback have you gotten from from those that have read the book and you know, they've g I'm sure they've gotten a lot of great lessons from that. Hashim Garrett: Yeah, you know, unfortunately, so fortunately I've gotten a lot of positive feedback. I have, but I haven't really plugged it as much. So l last May, like a month ago, I just graduated from NYU with my masters. And so that was like an all encompassing task to to go back to school and finish John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: up school. And and so now that I've got that underway, my my next big venture is all right, Hashem, now you wrote the book, but it's not gonna move off the shelves without you putting a little you know, put some work behind it. So John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: that that's the the next goal is to go, Okay, now that we've accomplished this task, now we have to actually promote it and get it out there more. But the the feedback has been positive. John McAleavey: Isn't it so hard? I c I Obviously, yeah, I I I I knew I was gonna put that ball on the T for you to hit it down the Hashim Garrett: Mm. John McAleavey: fairway 'cause I know the feedback is gonna be phenomenal. But y you know, in in a world like today, like we started off talking about kids playing with sticks and things like that, and now we have a world where you have to use social media to promote all your stuff. I know with my podcast I have this is I this might be my one hundredth episode that you could be the you could be the guy on the one hundredth Hashim Garrett: Wow. John McAleavey: episode, but I don't know who to I don't really promote promote it, I don't really, you know, get it out there. I should learn more and and and you're gonna probably find the same thing with putting your book out, but it's it's like a b a job, it's a business. You gotta really put the work in if you want to get you Hashim Garrett: Yeah yeah. John McAleavey: know not the acclaim, but if you want to g have people to learn lessons from these sorts of things, it's there's a lot that goes into it. So I I hope you're Well thank you. Hashim Garrett: No, I appreciate it. But congratulations to you with you know, so many many episodes underneath your belt. That's that that's no small feat. So congratulations. I'm glad I'm glad I could be a John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Yeah. Well you don't shim Hashim Garrett: part of it. John McAleavey: a lot like you in your book, it's it it hopefully it's like a blueprint for for folks that are newly injured and then for some for some guys like you and I that have been out of out in this game for a while that maybe hit a bump in the road to know that, you know, while it's not necessarily ideal, again it's not the end of the world and there's still so much that can that can be done in our conditions and I I'd like to think that we're we're two guys that are living proof of all of that, right? Hashim Garrett: In indeed, definitely. Indefinitely. Well I'm I'm glad glad I got a chance to be on it. Excellent. Congratulations. John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Well Yeah, yeah, yeah. Now you told me something, another thing I didn't know about you. I didn't know that you had worked at Kessler prior to working there now, but I know you're back with us at the foundation. when Hashim Garrett: Mm-hmm. John McAleavey: did you come back and and what are some of your responsibilities with us now? Hashim Garrett: Okay, so I started I got back at Kessler Foundation. So I used to work at Kessler Rehab, the KIR, John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: re the rehabilitation part, but now I'm at the foundation. So I started in 2024, so just a little over two years. And John McAleavey: Okay. Mm-hmm. Hashim Garrett: my my role there is a research assistant and well I work on with the the spinal cord injury department. And really what what I also so a few hats, but my my top my role is research assistant. But we as a a navigator program where we enrol, you know, people who sustain spinal cord injuries and really John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: kind of provide resources for them because as you mentioned earlier, the length of stays are so short that once a person is discharged, they don't have that the the same interdisciplinary team that they had with the the physiatrists, the the nurses, the social workers, the re you know, OTs or PTs. Don't really have all of those people. there to assist them once they get discharged. So what the the Navigator program does is really help individuals, newly individuals or those who've been injured for for years and just kind of help them navigate the the the complexities of the healthcare system. Maybe, you know, as you mentioned a person is about to get discharged and they have no idea how they're going to if their home is accessible. And so what the Navigator D team does, and we have some great people on the team, Emily and Samantha and Elise and and Dana and and Naomi, gotta plug them all. And so what they John McAleavey: Yeah. Yeah, please. Hashim Garrett: do is they they do a lot of home visits and they'll go and make sure, kind of talk with the caregivers and you know, explain to them some things that can be done and make sure that transition is as smooth as possible. Or, you know, some people are looking to maybe return to work. We just kind of provide them with resources John McAleavey: Yep. Hashim Garrett: to to help them not really at the core, helping individuals and families not feel so alone, right? And just knowing that they they've got support. And so it's been a real joy to work with the foundation on on those endeavors. And then another John McAleavey: Mm-hmm. Hashim Garrett: program that I work with is called Understanding Wheelchair Breakdowns. And it's really about recruiting people who have have had some memorable wheelchair repairs and experiences within like the last five years and just asking them, what's what was that process like getting your wheelchair repaired? Right. And and so, you know, many people are sharing stories with us and they're just saying, listen, I chose this self-repair because the bureaucracy of trying to get my repair done in a timely manner just doesn't seem like it, it it doesn't happen as quickly as I'd like. And so we we hear John McAleavey: Sure. Hashim Garrett: people say, you know, I I I needed to get something repaired on my chair and it took me months to get it repaired. You know, some people are stranded in their homes because can you imagine if a person has a an issue, a repair with their chair and their chair isn't functioning and now John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: they only have one chair and that chair doesn't work, well, how how are they supposed to one even get out the bed? Or how are they gonna, you know, go to a doctor's appointment or go to school or work? And so what we're doing is collecting some real stories and hopefully you can kinda like move the needle and inform the vendors, inform policy makers to say this is a real issue. John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: and and so it's it's really about the squeaky wheel against the oil and and bringing awareness to to the plight of you know, a community that most people don't know the the issues that people that wheelchair users have to endure when their wheelchairs break. So Those are John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: two projects to navigate a program and understand wheelchair breakdown. John McAleavey: Paying it forward, right? Paying it forward for Hashim Garrett: Indeed, John McAleavey: the n for the next people that come behind us. You know, you mentioned the navigators. I'm glad that you brought that up. I I can remember being in those team meetings with you and the over in the foundation. It was always nice. Not only did I get to come over and have a delicious free lunch with everybody thank you for everybody. I get to bring my Hashim Garrett: Mm. John McAleavey: dog and he he always wanted to partake in the lunch because as you know with dogs food is the end all be all. But I remember on the ground floor when that was getting going and I thought, what a tremendous idea this is because Hashim Garrett: Yeah. John McAleavey: like like I always tell people when I'm going around to d to peer mentor and go into the rooms and I I see not only the patient in the bed, but the mother and the father or the husband, the uncle, whoever it is, the neighbor, sitting beside their loved one in the bed. A and they all have that same look on their face, like, okay, can somebody please get the license plate of the truck that just derailed our entire existence? our whole life, you know, and and it's like where do these people go? Where do they turn? What w so many questions and so that that the navigators I know is is really trying to take a bite out of all of that. And it's I'm glad that it's now I mean it was in its infancy stages when we were having those meetings and now that it's a living, breathing thing is just s so great for the people now. Hashim Garrett: Yeah, no, it really is. And, you know, I'd be remiss if I don't mention, you know, my my supervisor, the person who kinda who who spearheading a lot of this, Dr. Denise Fife, who's kinda right really assembled John McAleavey: Without question. Hashim Garrett: this this this this dream team of, you know, great people, again, the Emilies and the Samanthas and John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: the the the Naomi who was you know, the many of them, the therapists were working at Kessler, you know, rehabilitation and now they're over here at the foundation and they just all bring their own experiences and knowledge and and it's been a real John McAleavey: Yes. Hashim Garrett: real joy to to partner up and and learn from them. John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: and and so again, you know, just Dr. Fife bringing everybody together, you know, and and and Trevor Hudson Dyson and you know, it's just some really, really great people and Dr. Gene Zanka, you know, just some really, John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: really great people over there at the foundation that you get a chance to just, you know, see how they put all of these things together for caregivers and you know, because I think the caregivers sometimes it's so easy to forget how important John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: they they are to the to the well being of the the to the the person, the client, the person who's sustained the inju the individu the injury. And so there John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: there's some great programs out there for the caregivers and just letting them know as well, because they can be a part of the navigator program too. They can enroll. So you know, I I think, John McAleavey: Yeah. They're in it too. Hashim Garrett: yeah, exactly. Cause, you know, It we wanna make sure we help the helpers. So John McAleavey: Yeah, we gotta keep them into it mentally too because i you know, these things just don't affect the person laying in the bed. They affect everybody. It's like Hashim Garrett: Right. Indeed. John McAleavey: it's like a bird that falls out of a tree and it hits every branch on the way down, right? It it affects Hashim Garrett: Yeah, yeah. John McAleavey: so so many people and I and I'm glad that you brought up Doctor Fife and Doctor Zanka and and and Trevor and they're great people and and they're they're they're They're all p we're all pulling on the same rope and it's I'm I'm honored to be doing it along with yourself and so w I'm glad we were able to bring them up and and make sure that people know who they are that are doing all of this. How about la last two for me? tell us what's next. I you you sort of glossed over, which is an amazing accomplishment, and that was getting your master's degree. So w what's next for you and and if you could tell us, you know, what what a day in the life is outside of Kessler Like with your family and things that you're interested in nowadays. Hashim Garrett: great question. So I I think the the one thing that I guess I'm the most proud of, the accomplishment or the the title rather, I don't know if I would call it accomplishment, but the title is being a dad, you know, being a father of two beautiful children. my seventeen-year-old daughter Harmony, who's entering her senior year in high school, which is kind of hard to wrap my mind around, right? And then my 13 year John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: old son Zen, who's entering the high school. It's all just like like how does time fly, you know? yeah, John McAleavey: To blur. Hashim Garrett: it's a it's a real blur, but I but I can say, you know, that's my my greatest joy is just being a father and being present for them and and and blaming my daughter because before she was born I had a full head of hair. It was really beautiful. I could go on and on about this beautiful mane that I had. You know what I mean? But so now it's all, you know, looking like Kojak. John McAleavey: I'm catching up to ya. well. I'm trying Hashim Garrett: Telly Savalas over here, you know. but yeah, yeah, yeah. So hang on, just hang on to every hang on to every follicle, my friend. But John McAleavey: to. Hashim Garrett: but yeah, so that that's my biggest joy is just, you know, spending time with them and watching them grow and supporting them. but then also, you know, I'm at that now what phase because as I mentioned, I graduated and I wanted to go back to school and accomplish that. And now I'm just going. John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: So now what do I do with it? You know, you got the degree. John McAleavey: Right. Yeah. Hashim Garrett: now now you wrote a book. Now what? So, you know, it John McAleavey: Yeah, yeah. Hashim Garrett: the the joy is in the journey sometimes, not reaching it. So now John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: I've reached it. And so it's just about just setting a new bar, setting a new goal, right? And so, and that what that new goal is right now is again, you know, promoting a book and just kind of like figuring out where where where I'm gonna go next and what I'm supposed to do. Because I didn't, you know, I didn't reach out to Kessler Foundation, Dr. Fife, she She reached out and she's like, we've got this, you know, we're working on this project, Hashim. I want you to hear about something. And before I knew it, she was like, Hey Hashem, would you mind coming to work? And I was like, yeah, sure. And there's like John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: everything happened for a reason, you know? So I'm at where I'm supposed to be, you know. John McAleavey: Does yeah. Hashim Garrett: And so I'm I'm really just kind of just trying to stay present and just really enjoying understanding how I can be helpful, where I'm at. And, you know, it took me some time to get my bearings here at the foundation and just go, they've got a lot of programs and they're they're trying to do a lot of John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: work and now I'm going, I can connect this person with that program and connect this person. And John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: so you're like, okay, I I see where I'm needed now and just, John McAleavey: Yeah. Yep. Hashim Garrett: you know, just be present and you'll you'll figure out your your next march and not is what you're supposed to do next. John McAleavey: That's a really healthy outlook when you can you kinda get your sea legs under you and now you kinda feel like you're really a big part of the team and and you can see what the future looks like in that respect. And so that's really important to to know, you know, you're making a difference and and you're It's just it's a healthy outlook and I think that that's I'm glad that you were able to come to that. which then will bring me to my last question, which I I save up for all of my guests who unfortunately have endured injuries like we did and and it's an interesting story. I I came up with this, I was waiting in the hallway for a doctor's appointment to see Doctor Kirschblum a couple of years ago, number of years ago. And believe it or not, Hashim, I was with a high school friend. He was a guy a couple years ahead of me in high school, but we were buddies going way back when. And he unfortunately had a devastating spinal cord injury. He was a he was a high quad, he was a C5 complete quad. And so we were both waiting in the hallway. He was waiting for his appointment, I was waiting for mine, and I said, Hey Tommy, we used to call him T. I said, Hey T, if I could snap my fingers right now and and you would be completely able-bodied once again, what do you think the first And so as I I I looked over at him and I I saw the smoke start to pour out of his ears as he was trying to come up with an answer to it. There was a woman behind me and she said I would go into my garden and and plant some flowers. And then a guy over to my right said, you know, I used to work on cars and I would I would get back under the hood of my car and turn a wrench here and there and I thought, you know, I didn't have a podcast back then, but it's it's a question that I would think everybody would have an answer to. And maybe it's evolved for some people. over the years. I know it has for me, but if I were to to ask you that question, what do you think the first thing you would do would be if, you know, you were wake up in the morning and whoa, I can Hashim Garrett: Ha ha John McAleavey: wake out of bed and do all of this? Hashim Garrett: wow, that's a great question. so my first answer, my first answer would be I would want to go to the beach. I would want to go to the beach, I'd want to run on the sand, I'd want to go really play in the water and just let the waves, you know, to jump up and down. That part. Yeah, yeah. So that would be John McAleavey: Yeah. Any specific beach? Hashim Garrett: a clean beach. Clean beach? John McAleavey: Yeah. Hashim Garrett: Blue waters, blue waters. No, I I don't John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: I don't I don't I don't really have a preference. yeah, yeah. Nope, see, John McAleavey: Okay. I didn't know if maybe any of New York beaches were your favorites. Hashim Garrett: no, not none the the ones that I saw lately didn't look that that pristine. So so so I'd have to probably get on a plane and go a little bit south somewhere, you John McAleavey: All right. Hashim Garrett: know. So Jamaica or Florida, I'm not sure. yeah, yeah, I can see through and look at, you know. John McAleavey: Yes, where you could see through the water. See the sharks about to take your leg off. Hashim Garrett: but that that would be it. That that that's my first thought. And then, you John McAleavey: Okay. Hashim Garrett: know, probably just just dance. Just just dance, you know? That would be it. John McAleavey: Yeah. That's great. I've heard a number of responses. I know Eric Le Grand told me he said, You wanna know the first thing? I said, Yeah He said I'd run out run down my street butt naked and let everybody to see my then I've had Hashim Garrett: Okay. John McAleavey: some people say, believe it or not, I would I would just stand in front of the toilet and empty my bladder and I'm like, you know, it's Hashim Garrett: Okay. Okay. John McAleavey: it's not the most you know, sexy thing in the world, but you know, people Hashim Garrett: Uh-huh. John McAleavey: in our world I could I could feel the same way, you know, and so Hashim Garrett: Yeah. John McAleavey: there's so many different answers because these Hashim Garrett: Yeah. John McAleavey: injuries affect us in so many different ways. That's just the thing. And Hashim Garrett: Right. John McAleavey: so well Hashim Garrett, I I wanna thank you for for joining me today. We've we've known each other over the years, seeing each other Hashim Garrett: Yeah. John McAleavey: in the hallway and we always have I always enjoy seeing you and catching up and like I said, we have so much in common other than the the spinal cord injury and and I look forward to to more conversations together. Maybe we could do some Some more of those. We have we're gonna try and get one of these man caves again together. We we did Hashim Garrett: Mm. John McAleavey: Jamil Williams and I put a little something together. We've only had really one of them because you know, just everybody's so busy, but it would be great to get you involved with that. and just to be able to have you on here to to to learn more about you and and to be able to share your story with my audience has been a pleasure and an honor. And again, thank you for joining me today. Hashim Garrett: No, honestly I I'm truly honored that you you thought of me and it's been a joy, you know, to not only be on your show and to support what you're doing, but always, as you mentioned, just kinda like seeing you in the hallway, and and and enjoy talking with you and you know, everybody stops and wants to see the dog and and and so you but but you are a phenomenal human being and I'm glad that I could support you and and when you have the the man cave up and come up you know up and running, just let me know and I'll I'll definitely support you in that as well.