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ManTalk 133 - Pastors in the Workplace: Faith, Family & the Calling to Serve · Military Broadcast Radio | MBR Talk

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Welcome to Man Talk 133, where men unite.
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So listen, it's a question that I've been wanting to know and a
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lot of people have been wanting to know, and that's about passes
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in the workplace, right? So we got the man tonight that's
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going to answer these questions because I got and questions and
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everybody else got them. So welcome to the show, Pastor
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Eric Wade. Welcome to the Eric White.
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I'm sorry, I'll welcome to the show.
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Amen. Thank you.
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Thank you my brother. Amen.
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Glad to be here. Thank you for inviting me,
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having me to be a part of what y'all guys are doing here.
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Yes, Sir, Yes, Sir. So we're going to get started
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like this, Pastor White, introduce yourself, tell the
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people who you are and you know anything you want to share about
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yourself. The floor is yours, man.
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For right now, it's because I got.
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I definitely got some questions that I know you can answer.
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Amen. Amen.
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We're just real quick just and I try to keep it in line with what
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we're doing here. Served in the military for
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years, active duty, graduated from North Carolina A&T, Aggie
1:40
Pride. I was in the RO, I was in the
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ROTC program and it launched out of there.
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Went on active duty for eight years.
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Loved the military, but I had an encounter with God in the
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military, man and, and through that encounter, I resigned my
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Commission and jumped out and went to move to Cincinnati, OH.
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And there I knew that the Lord had called me into the ministry
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for another eight years. Man, I just served in the local
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church and I went back to school at night, went back to school,
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served in the local church, was working a full time job working
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for a company called Corning and was working for them in
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Cincinnati. And I was going to school at
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night, in Bible school at night. And about eight years in doing
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that, not 8 years of going to school, but eight years serving
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at a, at a church. I went to the leaders and I
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hadn't risen to the, the, the role of elder, congregation of
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elder in that particular church. And I went to the leaders and I
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had been telling them about what the Lord had called me to do.
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And they, they launched me to launch a church in Cincinnati,
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OH back in September, the 1st 22,000 and two, I launched the
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first church there and I pastored it for 16 years.
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And we moved back to North Carolina, my wife and I, and
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that church is still going strong there in Cincinnati
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called Bread of Life Church. Amen.
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Bread of Life Church in Cincinnati, OH.
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And so I've been married for 37 years in December, 37 years my
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age, I'd be 61 next week, October the 5th and said Tesla
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have three grown children 1 into the ministry 2.
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That's here in Durham, NC. I have two that are in New York
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City. 1 is in a theater. She's a writer, director, and
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we've been our youngest son. He's a business guy and he's in
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New York City as well. But my wife and I, we born and
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raised in North Carolina. We had a heart desire to come
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back home and God brought us back home in 2016 to the Raleigh
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area. Then we moved back to our
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hometown. Done Dunn, North Carolina back
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in 20 20/20/20. So we've been here and we
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launched another church and we planned on another church right
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here in Dunn. So that's just a real overview
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and all of those times I've been in some type of full time part
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time work and passing the church.
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OK. So when did you first realize
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that God was calling you into ministry?
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Because you know you have a lot of people that's in ministry,
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well working and in ministry and want to try to combine the 2.
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So when did you first realize that you were called in the
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ministry? Well, I was in the military and
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I was serving. I was actually actually in the
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position of AI was a company commander at the time, and I was
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commanding and was having a great command.
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And I had an accountant coming home from PT one day and I put
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in and not notice, you understand, I was saved.
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I had already given my life to the Lord and I was, I was living
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serving the Lord and I was coming home one day, um, from
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physical training and go home change and give her go back to
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duty. And I put into the driveway and
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I'm telling you, man, the Holy Spirit of God came into the car.
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I couldn't get out me and a piece was all over me, man, that
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I'm telling you, I was crying, didn't know what was going on.
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And I'm telling you, I heard just as clear as you and I are
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talking, what you are doing for the military is what I want you
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to do for me. And I was like, well, what is
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that? And I realized as a company
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commander, I was shepherding. I was past the soldiers and then
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and my wife was the first lady. She was responsible for the
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families and you know the all of that and and the Lord spoke to
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my heart about that. I resigned my Commission at the
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day that I turned over my command.
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I left the military, Amen, to pursue what God had called me to
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do. And that's how real it was for
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me. Amen.
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Wow, did you ever envision yourself being the pastor and
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working at the same time? I did not, I, I, I did well,
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what happened was I was already again in, in corporate work and
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I was so when I started planning the church at the beginning, and
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I, let me say this to you, there was seasons that I was in full
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time ministry. There was seasons in full time
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ministry. And I can tell you some of those
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dynamics, you know, I think it has all to do with what size of
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a church. You know, God doesn't bless
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everybody with a mega church. You know, if, if you know the
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statistics out there, most churches are not mega churches.
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And so, so when you don't have that mega church backing or
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whatever it may be, you got to consider some options, you know,
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for the seasons and the times that you're in.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. But but yeah, I, I, I, I, I knew
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that I was calm, but I also knew I had to take care of a family.
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Right, so now you are, because I met you through my wife Latisha.
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You are a chaplain. Yes, Sir.
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Right. So now how did how does well you
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became a chaplain win I guess so I can ask.
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Them. Well, yeah, I've been a chaplain
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now just for a short period of time.
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I actually retired from my job. I had been working in corporate
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America off and on for a number of years and I was as a plant
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operations manager in my recent role before, you know, and we,
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like I said, we just started a plant in a church about five
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years ago here and done. And I was working at this whole
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time while doing that. And I decided though, because of
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the stress, anxiety, depression, everything that comes with being
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a print, a plant manager, my season was up, you know, and
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then I was 60 years old and the body was breaking down.
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I need a hip replacement and all of that.
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I decided my faith in, and I believe it was God's purpose for
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me to transition out of that, out of that.
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And I'm telling you, I wasn't looking to be a chaplain, but
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when one door closes, God opens up another door.
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And then, yes, Sir, you know, I like to say go ahead, I'm sorry.
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No, no, no good. No, you're good.
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You're good. Two things I like to say real
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quick is I learned the very own. There's a you got to separate
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occupation from vocation. You know, the Bible says walk
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worthy of the vocation in which you have been called and that
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vocation really is your calling. Amen is what God has called you
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to do. But then again, you got to
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understand you got to have an occupation.
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Why? Because you got to take care of
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your family. The Bible also says, you know,
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if you don't work, you're not going to eat.
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Now, I'm all in believing that the local church should support
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their pastor if they can sustain the pastor, if the congregation
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is large enough to sustain the pastor of them.
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So. But I also understand that when
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the congregation isn't large enough and the pastor is trying
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to be full time before time, it stunts the growth.
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It, it puts the pressure on the people.
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You know, we, we yeah. To to stop manipulating and
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doing things that would cause not have a good healthy church.
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Yeah, for real. So so how does how does
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chaplaincies is your pastor? How does that help you become a
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better? Does it make you busy, make you
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a better pastor? Or does you know by you?
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Let me say this thing. Yeah, I believe that what I'm
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doing now and is where my occupation and vocation have
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come together. My occupation is what I get paid
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to do. My vocation is what I've been
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called to do. And now they've been both, They
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both come together. So I am enjoying what I get paid
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to do. And you know what I'm saying?
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I'm walking. And this lines up with pastoral
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ministry. I'm, I'm basically pastoring.
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I'm leading because I'm a leader.
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Even I'm leading people when I say I'm leading groups of
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volunteers, I have a group of volunteer chapters that I lead
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here as well. And so I'm leading, developing,
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encouraging all the above. And then I'm also with my
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leadership experience in corporate and also in the
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ministry, I'm able to because a Chapman not only just deals with
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the patients, but they deal with the staff as well.
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So I'm able to deal with the always with the CEO to the
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hospital, to the person that's cleaning, changing sheets, able
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to minister to all of them as they need it as as well.
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So as a, as a working pastor for the, for the people, because you
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mentioned some people can, can get out too fast, want to become
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full time ministry too fast for you since you've been in
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corporate and you've been a pastor for 16 years and you're a
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pastor now. What does that look like as a
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working pastor? When people are working pastor,
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they see, hey, you know, you got a job and you pass it on Sunday.
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But I'm sure it's a lot more entailed than that.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah. Well, the whole time I've been
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doing what I call by vocational ministry, I just didn't do it on
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Sunday. I was doing it on Wednesday as
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well, and I'm preaching twice a week and still do it.
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What I'm saying is it takes discipline, man.
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It really does. It takes discipline.
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And I think that's where some of the military piece of it comes
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for me is the discipline side of it.
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I don't have a lot of play time, you know what I'm saying?
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I don't, yeah, I'm, I stay focused and discipline.
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And not only that, you know, it's not about us, it's about
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him. And when it's about him, you,
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you, you want to have a team. I had a, as my church grew in
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Cincinnati, I had a staff, I had a team.
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And so guess what? Most of my team members were
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where most of your volunteers at the church, or you don't want to
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call them volunteers, whatever. Guess what?
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They, they working on a job somewhere, you know what I'm
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saying? Yeah, yeah, they are, they're
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getting it. And so them are the people that
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you're leading on to help you in the ministry.
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And so these are the folks. So I didn't have to do it by
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myself. I had a staff team and they,
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they helped Aiden and assisted and they understood what I did
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because they were doing the same thing.
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Yeah. And and they supported me
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strongly in that. Hey man, that's great.
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So I heard, I've heard some people say this.
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If you're truly called to ministry, why don't you, why
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don't you just do it full time? You should do it.
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If you're called to be a pastor, you should be doing it full
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time. What would you say to that?
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I would say in some cases that that could be true.
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I mean, it's all in the I won't say that, hey, I disagree with
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that, but I won't say I agree with that as well.
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I think, you know, you got to understand the times and the
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seasons that that we're moving in, we're moving.
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And even now, I'll just give you an example.
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I was at Campbell University about a month ago and I was
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talking to the Dean of the, of the school that the divinity
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school, the Dean and associate Dean at the school, and they are
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saying that they're seeing a increase in by vocational
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ministry. Yeah, yeah, yeah.
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They're seeing more people that are doing both of them.
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You got so many people hopping out at me and people quitting,
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pastoring me. There's churches everywhere.
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Let me say this to you. I can go find a church right
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now. I can go find a church right now
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that I can go pastor and I can be full time at that church
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right now. That's how many vacancies are in
13:26
churches that are out there right now, even in a rural place
13:29
that I am. But that ain't what God called
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me to do. You got to understand what God
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you got some people that hop church to church to church so
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they can maintain their full time ministry and their status
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or whatever. You got to understand whom God
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has called you to be and what God has called you to do.
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So I'm not opposed to those that say, hey, full time pastor, God
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called me to plant churches. And a part of planting churches
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is, you know what Paul was the person that planted churches.
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He was a tent maker. He worked, you know what I'm
13:59
saying? So you, you got the different
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models for different people, you know, in different seasons of
14:03
life. And so I would not come against
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anyone that would say that, but I know what God called me to do
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and I got to do what he called me to do.
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Amen. Amen.
14:12
So we got about 30 seconds before we go to the first break,
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right? Have you ever struggled?
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And I know this, this is a yes. Have you ever thought about just
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just quitting? Yes, yes, yeah.
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My, my pastor said you got to have a rough hide and a tender
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hot pastor. Amen.
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But this is the thing. Quitting is not an option for
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me. And that's when you know, you
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really been called, Amen. That's when you really know
14:45
you're you're you're calling is being tried.
14:48
Yeah. But I've I've I've definitely
14:50
has been in my heart more than one time.
14:53
Yeah, man, we're here with Bassa Eric White y'all tonight.
14:56
We'll be right back after the break.
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Opinions expressed in this program are those of the
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speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions
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of any entities they represent. Welcome back to Man Talk 133.
16:33
We hit the night whip, Pastor Eric White.
16:37
So we're talking about passes in the workplace, right, Sir?
16:41
So what does it feel like? Because I never done it before,
16:45
right? What does it feel like at the
16:47
work all week? Had to prepare sermons, cancel
16:52
people, attend meetings, visit the sick and lead a congregation
16:57
all in one week. How does that?
17:00
Well, again, it takes a team when you think that that's,
17:05
that's what you really got to understand early on.
17:07
You think about the military, it takes a team, you know, a
17:11
commander, whatever role you're in, a platoon Sergeant, you
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know, whatever squad leader, whatever it is, it takes the
17:17
team. So you're influencing a, a, a
17:20
team of people. And if it comes to the
17:23
discipleship, it takes a team, whatever it may be, it takes a
17:26
team. You have deacons to help with
17:28
the watch care of the people. So it's not again about that one
17:32
individual. I might be the main speaker, but
17:36
at the same time too, I'd be wise as well to have other
17:39
speakers to stand because I might have a, a certain gift
17:42
mix. And the Bible tells us that we
17:44
need the fivefold ministry, Amen, to help to equip the
17:49
Saints out of the perfection of the Saints.
17:51
And so I might be a pastor teacher, but they need to have
17:54
the evangelist, they need to hit the prophet, the apostle, you
17:58
know, the those other types of giftings as well.
18:01
And so to to answer your question again, it comes back to
18:05
team. It's a team.
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Yeah, it's a team. That's how we get it done.
18:10
Amen. Amen.
18:10
So so how like because I'm just asking these questions and I'm
18:15
thinking of myself. So you guys as pastors pray for
18:20
people and you know all the time and pouring the people who pray
18:24
for you guys and pour into y'all when you need it.
18:27
Amen. I would say my, that's why we
18:30
got to be connected. You know what I'm saying?
18:33
I'm not a alone, sheep, wolf or whatever you want to call it.
18:37
I'm connected to an organization.
18:39
I'm not per SE in a denomination, but I am connected
18:43
to a larger organization called CCI, Covenant Connection
18:46
International. They're out of Texas Action, the
18:49
Fort Hood, TX area and over 500 different churches.
18:53
And so I have a fellowship, I have a group of presbyters that
19:00
it's an organization. It's not, again, not a
19:03
fellowship or organization that I'm involved in that men I can
19:07
lean on me and I can call them and and and you know, and we
19:11
fellowship and and those things there.
19:13
So there's some accountability and I go to conferences and
19:17
those things, they're to be encouraged, but I also, if I
19:19
need counseling, I can go to them as well.
19:23
So when you so when your kids were young, so like 6 when when
19:26
you were doing the first 16 years in ministry?
19:28
Yes, Sir. Now how did you balance that?
19:31
How did you balance, you know, ministry and work and kids and
19:35
you know all that stuff at one time because I, I would imagine
19:39
doing your full time, doing your part time stints and full time
19:44
you were working. How did you balance that?
19:46
You know, what was the, what was that like?
19:48
And having kids with events and the wife and all that stuff
19:51
going. Well, thank God for my wife.
19:55
Again, it comes back to the team, man, you know what I'm
19:58
saying? My wife and I are team.
20:00
And we, you know, my wife, she sacrificed because not only were
20:05
was I in the ministry, we were away from home, you know, saying
20:08
we were raising our children in the city.
20:10
In a state, man, where we didn't have no aunts and uncles and
20:13
grandma and granddad, we didn't have any of that.
20:16
But we had a church family. We had a church family.
20:19
And I really realized what church family meant.
20:24
You know, as we were all growing up, we had other friends that
20:27
were in very light situations and we leaned on one another,
20:31
man, that's what it was. We leaned on one another.
20:34
When it comes to the kids though, man, I, I made it a
20:36
priority because I, you know, I worked in professional
20:38
environments and being in a professional environment, you
20:42
know, if I needed to be somewhere and #1 if my
20:45
reputation was good and I carried myself in a way and I
20:48
was an asset to my organization, man, look, man, they, they knew
20:54
who I was, man. They knew I was a man of God,
20:56
but they, they had no problems with me if it was at a, a
21:00
function that I needed to go to or taking care of my kids or
21:03
whatever, you know, because I was worthy of my hire in, you
21:09
know, in my, in my private or the corporate side of things.
21:12
And so they were very supportive of me.
21:14
I didn't have to hide that I was a pastor.
21:16
Matter of fact, there were times when they would call on me to do
21:19
things within my, in the organization.
21:21
They didn't have to call like EAP employment assistance
21:24
program. They had one on site and so and
21:27
so I, I didn't have to hide who I was.
21:31
Amen. In my corporate and and so I've
21:34
always been very supportive by the organizations that I've I've
21:38
worked with and and worked for. OK.
21:41
What type of SAC you mentioned sacrifices, what type of
21:44
sacrifices that that you guys had to make?
21:47
Being away from family, your wife is, you know, kind of
21:51
holding things down. You know what type of
21:53
sacrifices, you know. Well, yeah, there were some
21:55
things that our kids obviously couldn't do.
21:57
You know, they they played sports.
21:59
But my son, I couldn't. I remember we had to make a
22:03
decision one time that I couldn't go with the, you know,
22:05
we couldn't support the travel ball, you know, the travel
22:08
league. Yeah.
22:09
You know, my son, he was playing basketball and and the coach sat
22:13
down, we had a meeting and my wife and I were in this meeting,
22:16
you know, and he was saying, well, your summer's going to be
22:19
in Florida this year. We're going to be doing travel
22:21
about it. And I looked at my wife and I,
22:24
we looked at what another say, not our summer.
22:29
And we had to have a conversation with our son about
22:31
it. And he looks back.
22:34
He's a pastor today, you know, he looks back and we laugh about
22:38
that situation because we knew he wasn't going to the NBA.
22:44
So we said we go cut this thing off early.
22:48
Right now and cutting. That off and so we had to make
22:51
some hard choices when it was with our kids, but we supported
22:54
them and each one of our kids, we had three kids.
22:57
They were three years apart and we supported them.
23:00
Them let me let me say some of the things that had to pull me
23:04
out when I was full time and I got pulled out of full time.
23:07
I had to go back to work and I had a situation with two of our
23:12
kids. All our kids were in public
23:13
schools, man. And our daughter, she was doing
23:16
great because she was how can I say you know, very intelligent
23:22
influence. She was at the top tier and she
23:24
was she was what I what I considered she stayed out of
23:27
general population and so she was able to move through school
23:32
very well without a lot of the distractions.
23:35
But my two sons, they weren't, they weren't achieving like
23:39
that. And so they were having a lot of
23:41
issues in school, man. And my wife and I, when I was in
23:44
full time ministry, I became a, a substitute teacher.
23:50
My wife and I did, we both did. Why?
23:52
Because we wanted to get into the school system to see what
23:55
was going on with our kids because they were complaining, I
23:58
realized I had to pull my kid out of public school to put them
24:01
in a private school if they were going to learn anything, if they
24:04
were going to graduate, just because of where I lived there
24:07
in the school district I was in, I didn't move.
24:10
But we had to move them out of there and put them into some
24:13
private schools. Hence I had to go back to to my
24:17
corporate environment to make enough money to send them to
24:21
school. So what I'm saying I'm going to
24:23
be prideful to stay in full time ministry and let my kids suffer.
24:28
I made the sacrifice this time to say, hey, I'm going back to
24:32
work and I'm going to what? Look, everybody else had their
24:35
kids in in the right schools that were going to the church.
24:37
Why wouldn't I do any different? And So what I'm saying is
24:40
there's times and seasons that we must understand that we got
24:44
to do the right thing when it comes to our children.
24:47
And my children are the better. Matter of fact, they tell me all
24:50
the time, Dad, we're so appreciative that you pulled us
24:53
out of that school and put us in in the private school.
24:55
Amen. Yes, Sir, that that's for the
25:00
people that want to go into ministry for ward time
25:04
sacrifices you're going to have to make.
25:05
He's giving me all some sacrifices now that you're going
25:08
to have. To make, let me tell you another
25:10
one. You know, with doing that,
25:12
brother, I couldn't drive the best cars.
25:14
I didn't have the newest, the newest cars all the time.
25:17
You know what I'm saying? Yeah.
25:18
You know, sometimes we want to be in ministry.
25:19
We want to be flashy. We want to have, we want to
25:22
drive the best car, wear the best suits.
25:24
We want to do all those types of things and that's what ministry
25:27
is not about. And so there were seasons where
25:30
I didn't have those suits and I didn't have the the ride I
25:34
didn't have why? Because I was taking that and
25:38
putting it into vesting into my children.
25:40
You know what I'm saying? Making sure they had great
25:42
educations. You know, I can have a good car
25:45
and they and and they they getting a bad education.
25:48
And so there were numerous sacrifices that we made, but we
25:52
thank God for family, man. My parents, folks would fly out.
25:55
We would go to conferences. My parents would fly out.
25:59
They would take care of the kids because they were with their
26:01
grandkids, and we would go to a conference.
26:04
I'm telling my whole life has been about team, you know, and
26:08
support one another. Yeah, to be successful.
26:13
Now you, you, I know you're a veteran and we don't, we don't
26:17
give up easy, right? We don't, we fight to the end,
26:20
right? Have you, have you ever
26:22
experienced burnt out or got close to it, you know, doing
26:25
ministry and having to sacrifice and have the work And have you
26:29
know, have you ever got close to that or experienced burnout?
26:33
Yeah, I've, I've experienced that twice that I'm aware of.
26:36
Amen. When I left Cincinnati and I
26:40
look back of leaving Cincinnati, coming to North Carolina, I
26:44
didn't pass it for about 3 years and I realized that I needed a
26:48
sabbatical. I realized I was burnt out a
26:51
ministry, although things were thriving and going well, we
26:55
stepped out by faith to come back home and and we, we what we
27:00
realized was that the churches, even though we founded that
27:03
church, the church is not ours. It belongs to the Lord.
27:06
And if it's going and if it's the Lord's, it's going to it's
27:09
going to last. You know, I'm saying so we
27:10
stepped out by faith. The Lord gave me my wife and I
27:14
he spoke to me. He says Genesis 31 and three,
27:17
get ye up out of this land. Return to the land of your
27:20
father and your relatives and I would be with you.
27:22
That was the, that's how I left Cincinnati.
27:24
Everywhere I left when I left the military, I left on the
27:27
word. When I left the ministry in
27:30
Cincinnati and came to North Carolina, I left on the word of
27:33
God. And what I'm saying unto you is,
27:37
is that the Lord knew more than anything that I needed some
27:40
rest, man. I needed some rest.
27:42
I got here for three years and did not officially try to.
27:48
I tried to start a couple of Bible studies and they didn't.
27:51
They did nothing happen and I realized that the Lord had me in
27:55
a sabbatical time of season and resting and resetting to go over
27:58
there and and then just recently transitioning out of my full
28:03
time corporate job and moving into this role.
28:07
I was in a season where physically as I was, I had a
28:14
needed a hip replacement. Blood pressure went high man.
28:18
I had a lot of different things going on and I was overwhelmed
28:24
physically and emotionally and mentally and I reached out.
28:30
I got weeks out to the vet center and connected with a a
28:33
vet a therapist man to start. I used to look down on therapy
28:37
but all my kids I realized my 3 kids.
28:40
One day I found out my wife was talking to me.
28:42
She said they all got therapist. I said therapist for what?
28:46
All the sacrifice we've done. They all went to college, they
28:49
all, you know, all of those things.
28:51
I said what they need a therapy for, a therapist for and I
28:54
realized, man, that therapist weren't a bad thing.
28:57
It's what they, it's what they, you know, I realized and to the
29:00
day I found out that I needed one.
29:03
And I'm telling you, it was the best thing I did.
29:05
I went and fell on the mercy of the VA and, and, and, and I'll
29:10
tell you what. And that therapist navigated me
29:14
out of my corporate career and helped me to move into what I'm
29:19
doing now as a chaplain. And you know, we talked off ad
29:23
we talked about the on the phone.
29:24
So I'm going to bring you I'm going to bring you back on for
29:27
another show because once we get over into that, we'll be into
29:29
that for a while. I won't bring you back on about
29:32
that. The part you just talking about.
29:33
So what are some for the for the pastors out there that is like,
29:37
you know, they want to say, they want to say, you know, dinners
29:41
and they want to do real estate and they want to do all these
29:44
things and do ministry and they want to all these things they
29:47
want to do, right? What are some signs that pastors
29:50
are carrying too much? Because sometimes they don't see
29:53
it and they don't have the team around them like you had.
29:57
What? What are some signs they can
29:58
look for that and let them know like, Hey, you, you, you getting
30:01
close to burning out? Well, your, your number one sign
30:05
is your wife. If you're married and your
30:08
family, you know my my wife. She and I thank God I have a
30:13
strong wife and she always knew those times and those moments
30:20
when to pull my coattail and to say, hey, you know, we need to,
30:25
we need to do something with the fan.
30:26
We need to focus on this. And maybe we need to pull out of
30:28
this. Maybe we don't need to go to
30:29
that. Maybe we don't need to
30:30
participate in everything. And a lot of that sacrifice was
30:34
that, you know, I when I said sacrifices, I couldn't be at
30:37
every every church function or not just mine, but other
30:43
peoples, you know, said I couldn't, you know, let's go
30:46
fellowship over here. Let's go do this.
30:48
That another a lot of that I chose not to do as times of
30:52
protecting myself and you know, arresting.
30:55
And so I think a lot of that wisdom also came to of being,
30:59
like I said earlier, I was connected with an organization
31:02
and those organizations, people would testify, I would be
31:08
connected with another brother, you know, another pastor, and,
31:11
and he would tell him what he was dealing with and going
31:14
through. And so I believe having a
31:16
network, Amen, starting with your family, Amen.
31:20
And then having a network, being connected with other people,
31:23
oppressions like faith are all, and having real relationships.
31:29
Other people can speak into your life and say, man, you're doing
31:32
too much, you know, and so you got to have some real friends in
31:35
your life when you're doing ministry, people that's going to
31:38
be able to tell you and speak to you and give you some reality.
31:42
And what they're seeing in your life, I think, is what's most
31:45
important. Amen to that way.
31:47
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Opinions expressed in this program are those of the
33:00
speakers and do not necessarily reflect the views or positions
33:04
of any entities they represent. Welcome back to Man Talk 133 we
33:11
had tonight with Pastor Eric White.
33:14
So listen, we talked about the sacrifice, we talked about all
33:18
those stuff. Now let's get into some churches
33:21
want to some time aboard? Let's talk about that money,
33:24
right? Should pastors be compensated?
33:27
Because some people feel like pastors shouldn't be
33:29
compensated. Do you feel like pastors should
33:32
be compensated for their work? I do, I do, I I I really believe
33:38
that the, as the church has the, as you have the capacity to do
33:43
it. You know, many times we're
33:45
playing the musicians and and the past is not getting paid,
33:49
but the musicians are getting more paid more than the the past
33:51
thing is. And that's a whole, that's a
33:53
whole nother source subject there.
33:55
But and I don't have anything against musicians.
33:58
I'm just saying if we can pay the musicians, we got to be able
34:01
to pay the pastors as well. And so at the end of the day,
34:06
the pastor should be compensated.
34:08
They're worthy of their hire. They should be compensated as
34:12
they can be compensated. You know, as the congregation
34:14
grows, so, so shall the, the salary grow.
34:20
I, I also believe if you're going to do it right, that we
34:22
should be legit. We should have a independent
34:25
third party organization that that will, that would tell you,
34:31
you know, that will speak to you and give you that
34:34
recommendation. That's why it's good to be
34:36
involved with a organization that's larger than you are.
34:40
You know what I'm saying? That that will coach you and and
34:43
introduce you to those things that would be helpful in helping
34:47
to establish the right salary amount for a pastor with the
34:52
science church that they have and responsibilities that they
34:55
have. Yeah, yeah.
34:56
You know, I've heard people say some crazy stuff that they don't
34:59
think pastors should get paid because that they calling they
35:03
should, they should just go and do it for free.
35:06
So my thing is like, do you go to work for free?
35:11
You might know how to do it real good, but you go there and do it
35:14
for free. So let me say.
35:16
Always think pastor, yeah, yeah, yeah.
35:17
Let me do this. I believe just even as the
35:20
pastors have received the salary, that pastor should also
35:23
be tithing and giving as well. You know what I'm saying?
35:25
Yeah, If you got that expectation of your your
35:28
congregation members, you should be doing the same giving as a
35:31
principle that God. It's not just for the
35:33
congregation, it's for the pastor as well.
35:36
And so we should be, I think I always like to say, I think the
35:39
pastor should be one of the biggest givers in the church.
35:42
Amen. If not the biggest giver in the
35:43
church. Amen.
35:44
Yes, Sir. Now, what would you say to
35:46
people that you know, I've heard people, you know, these are
35:49
things that I've heard. I jot stuff down that I've heard
35:52
because I knew you was coming on and I was like, you know what?
35:54
These are some questions I've things that I've heard and I
35:58
know you got the answers for them right.
35:59
So what would you say to the people who criticize pastors?
36:04
My pastors shouldn't have the words.
36:06
He I don't I don't feel like it's right.
36:08
He got to have a career or business outside of, you know,
36:13
outside of ministry because he can't focus on God.
36:16
Yeah. Well, what would you say to
36:18
people that say? Something again, a pastors in
36:21
full time ministry, they got to be disciplined as well.
36:24
You can get up and you can get up and they can take you be
36:27
doing do this, that and other. They could be in themselves
36:30
writing their books and doing all other types of things.
36:33
And so at the end of the day, it's all about our discipleship.
36:38
Amen. With discipline, you know,
36:40
sitting before the feet of the Lord and I, I sit before the
36:43
feet of the Lord where I'm coming to the hospital, going to
36:47
the corporate giant or whatever it may be.
36:49
Amen. I, I still got to humble myself
36:51
and, and sit before the Lord and get into that and get into that
36:55
word as well. Let me say this, I ran into a
36:59
situation where I just family had joined my congregation and
37:05
it wasn't too long. Me and the the husband and him,
37:08
we got somehow we, you know, we, we were, he got upset with me
37:13
about something. I don't know what was going on.
37:15
And he pretty much told me. He said, I tell you what he says
37:18
I ain't going to pay your bills. I'm not paying your bills.
37:21
I said paying my bills. What you talking about, man?
37:23
I said, paying my bills. Yeah.
37:26
Come to find out when we got beyond that and begin to have a
37:30
real sensible man to man conversation, he had left for
37:34
church where he was paying the pastor's electric bill and stuff
37:37
like that. I said, brother, I can assure
37:40
you, one thing is for sure, you wouldn't ever have to pay one of
37:43
my bills. You know why?
37:45
That's why I go to work to take care of my bills.
37:48
That's why I go to them to take care of my family.
37:50
Amen. And and if the church, if I'm
37:53
not don't have the churches decide to do that, it's my
37:56
responsibility to do that. Yeah, absolutely.
38:00
So so you know, we people in church, they talk about orphans
38:05
a lot, right? You know, the amount of
38:07
offerings. So how did you as a pastor
38:11
pursue like the financial, you got to have a balance like the
38:15
stability without allowing money to become the motivation for
38:20
ministry. Like some people, you know,
38:22
their money is the motivation they got to have that they going
38:26
to do whatever offers they got to do to get the money they need
38:30
for the ministry. How do you kind of how do you
38:32
separate that because you don't take me as a hey, I got I need
38:35
like I ain't got enough. Yeah, I need some more before we
38:39
leave this business. Somebody close them doors before
38:42
they. Brother, that it's so
38:44
distasteful, man. And I've been in environments
38:46
like that where I've been at meetings or whatever and, and
38:50
I've been one time I told my wife, I said, Dad, God, I feel
38:54
so bad. I went out to my car.
38:55
I had to go out in my car and get some more money.
38:57
Wasn't even my church, wasn't even my organization.
39:00
The guy just worked us over like that.
39:02
I, I went out and went out of my car.
39:04
I left my wallet in the car. So I want to bring so much with
39:07
me. Like I know I'm going out to get
39:09
my dad going wild out in the car to, to give some more money.
39:14
You know, man, I tell you what, that's a I've never in almost 24
39:23
years of pastoral ministry, I've never had to ask for extra
39:28
offering. I've never had to manipulate the
39:31
people. I've always only received one
39:34
offering unless we're having a special offering about something
39:36
and people would know about that ahead of time.
39:40
But never, I'm telling in 24 years, I have never had to
39:45
manipulate. I've never had to receive more
39:48
than one offering at the church. And our needs were always met.
39:53
And I've we've had buildings, I've had mortgages and
39:56
buildings. Right now we're leasing a
39:58
building. We don't own our building, We're
40:00
leasing a building, but we've owned buildings in the past.
40:03
You know what I'm saying? And, and never, I'm telling you
40:05
absolutely never had to do this. Why?
40:07
Because we had budgets. We understood.
40:10
What was going in what was coming out.
40:12
We weren't trying to live larger than what we were.
40:15
And so I think all of those things come into play when those
40:19
types of things happen. And not only that God when you
40:22
do the the work of the Lord. I've had people put money in my
40:26
hand, large sums of money when we go out and serve and do
40:30
different things people have God has favored the ministry.
40:34
Amen. Because of the work of the
40:36
ministry. He has favored the ministry when
40:38
I might not had enough congregation remember to do what
40:41
needed to be done. But God, I'm telling you, man,
40:44
God used people from outside the congregation that would come in
40:49
and sow sizeable seeds and offerings into the ministry
40:54
because of the work that we were doing.
40:56
Wow, see. They got of all of the
40:59
blueprint. That's right, brother.
41:00
God provides me. That's right.
41:05
So I take you as a real genuine man of God.
41:10
So and I knew you're going to be honest with me.
41:12
Yes, Sir. How was how does work?
41:14
How's the working past affected your marriage and your family
41:17
life? Well, my wife, she has.
41:22
I remember my wife telling me one day she came home and she
41:25
was crying and weeping and I said what's going on baby?
41:28
She said, she said. She said the Lord spoke to me
41:34
about, about my calling into ministry.
41:39
And so my wife is not just the first lady, you know, saying
41:43
that's, that's not her role. She is a very intimate part and
41:46
has always been an intricate part of the ministry.
41:49
And so we're A-Team, Amen. We, we've worked together over
41:54
these years. We've worked in integrity.
41:59
We've honored one another in ministry.
42:02
Now you, I'd be the first to tell you.
42:04
She would tell you too. There has been some intense
42:08
fellowship, you know what I'm saying, where we've, where we've
42:11
had disagreements, but not to a point of where there was
42:16
anything with divorce or fighting or any of those types
42:19
of things. We, we've learned to honor one
42:22
another and, and we've, we've walked through this together,
42:26
man, which is so grateful and thankful that I got 3 kids, none
42:30
of them. My wife was always telling me
42:32
you're gonna get your report. We're gonna get our report card
42:34
when they get older. And we thank God we got A328
42:38
minutes. We go get a report card from the
42:40
kids won't get older when they get older.
42:42
We go get one and we thank God, man, we got a 3034 31 and 28
42:49
year old young adults and they're they're living well.
42:53
They're on their own living well.
42:54
And I'm telling you, man, I'm just so thankful and grateful we
42:57
haven't gotten one report that mom and dad, y'all did this and
43:01
you did that. You neglected us.
43:03
Yeah, we we loved on them and we didn't let and we weren't the
43:08
type 2 that would the church weren't going to bully our kids
43:11
as well. Yes.
43:12
So we kept our kids close to us. We entrusted them, you know,
43:19
other people with them. And you know what?
43:21
But just as as other people, like my kids would go to other
43:24
people's house, guess what? Those kids would come to our
43:27
home. You know, I'm saying what?
43:28
Not yeah, we went, the church wasn't raising our kids.
43:31
We raised our kids and then we raised our kids and we're would
43:34
think, you said, I'm saying I, I instead of having a better
43:37
church, I want to, you know, it's not about having a big
43:40
church, It's about having big people.
43:42
And we grew big people, man, and we grew big, big children.
43:46
You know what I'm saying that that's what's most important to
43:48
me. Amen.
43:49
Now, now you know how some people you know, they want
43:52
access to the pastor, they and the first lady, they got to have
43:56
it. How did you protect?
43:58
How do you protect it now and how did you protect your family
44:01
time then from somebody that always want to contact the
44:04
pastor? Hey, I you know, I got my toe
44:06
finger hurt. I got to call the pastor because
44:09
he got to pray for me. You know, all these things.
44:11
How do you protect that? Well, that that's comes back to
44:15
the organization of the church. That's why we had the deacons
44:18
and the elders of those ministries and we also we had
44:23
what we call small groupman. So the deacons were responsible
44:26
for a certain amount of families.
44:28
And so, and it wasn't that the Deacon was blocking them from
44:31
the pastor, but if there was something that that they needed,
44:35
they can, they had a relationship with the Deacon and
44:37
we weren't, we weren't jealous of the relationship that the,
44:40
the members had with the deacons.
44:42
Amen. We did well, we, we wanted,
44:43
that's what we wanted and that's what we had.
44:45
So we found out. Now we're obviously in a much
44:49
different situation now where we're in our, in our hometown,
44:53
which is a smaller hometown, We got a smaller church and, but
44:56
we're in a different place in our life, a different season.
44:59
You know what I'm saying? We're my wife and I, you know,
45:02
we long for fellowship. We long for connecting with
45:06
people. And so it's not so much an issue
45:10
for us now as it was in the past where we had to protect and and
45:15
guard and, and, and just be wise and what we were doing in the
45:19
ministry. Yeah.
45:21
Amen. I so listen, we we were just our
45:23
last break. We'll be right back after the
45:25
break, y'all. The station where our veterans
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46:03
Welcome back to Man Talk 133 with me and Unite here tonight
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with Pastor Eric White. And he's given some stuff
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because I had these questions. I wanted to know, you know, I
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mean, like, OK, for example, stuff I wrote down, right?
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What advice would you give a pastor's spouse who feel like
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the church is getting the best of their husband or wife?
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Yeah, wow, that's a tough one. I, I would, I would, you know,
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I, I, I believed in prayer and not just praying for your
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spouse. I know my wife, man.
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She's my, my biggest fan, my biggest cheerleader, man.
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My, I'm talking about when, when I tell all your preachers.
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Look, man, if if your wife ain't saying Amen and lifting our
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hands while you're preaching, brother, it's yeah, brother.
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Yeah, yeah. Something, something's wrong.
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Something's wrong. You know what I'm saying?
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You know? Yes, Sir.
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Yes, Sir. Yes, Sir.
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You may go sit down, do something.
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And so with our wives been our, our greatest cheerleaders.
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They're also our greatest prayer warriors and they're concerned
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for us. You know, I'm going to be a
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little transparent right here, man.
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I, I got throughout ministry one specific time I got attacked,
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man, not not physically attacked, but spiritually
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attacked. And my character was attacked
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right in front of my wife. And it was right after the
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prayer meeting that we had. And it wasn't nothing but the
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devil, you know what I'm saying? And, and I and I went late on
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the altar and I told my wife, don't, don't say that.
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I said, just sit down. My wife sat down there beside me
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and she heard two individuals, man laying on me, brother, like
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it ain't never been laid on the individual.
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You wouldn't think this would come out of the church people's
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mouths. You know what I'm saying?
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And, and I'm telling you, I've been, I've dealt with those type
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of things and, and different things in ministry that were
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that would hurt, that would cause a pastor to say, I'm, I'm
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done with this man. You know what I'm saying?
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And but what I say is to that, to that young lady is to pray
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and and walk and stay in communication with a husband.
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And when she see those types of things, you know, suggest, Hey,
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we need a break, we need to go somewhere.
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You know, again, we always have had couples that we were
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connected with that we're not in our in our congregation.
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I'm not saying that we didn't connect with our leaders and
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stuff like that. I'm just saying we had friends
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that were not a part of they were pastors and at other
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churches in other cities, a part of that overall organization
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that we had. And then we strengthen one
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another and encourage one another when we see when we need
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it. Man, look, hey, they come in
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town, we leave out of town, you know, those types of things
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there. So, yeah, we got to use the
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wisdom of God and, and understanding that when a woman
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sees that and the husband, they're they're they're to bring
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it to their attention and they're to talk about how
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they're going to navigate through that season in time.
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Yeah. Amen.
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Amen. So so how is ministering as a
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chap and different from ministering behind the pulpit?
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That's. A good question there.
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Excellent question there. The difference is I do more
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listening here I ever do. You know, us preachers, we love
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talking. We love talking and preaching.
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But when I walk into a room here, it's not about me
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whatsoever and it should never be about me.
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Even at the church, it's about him.
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And so for it to be about him in a hospital setting is when you
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walk in A room, you're there with, with your ears open, you
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come to hear what they're saying.
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Some of these people are at the end of their lives.
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Some of these people have had a traumatic experience.
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Some of these people have been hurt in their lives.
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I'm telling you what I've just for the short amount of time
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I've been in, in, in chaplaincy ministry, I would say every,
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every pastoral minister, every pastor needs to go get some
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clinical pastoral education training and, and at least do
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some type of volunteer for a short period of time in the
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hospital. And you will come to the reality
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of understanding when people are hurting.
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People have been through things, man.
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And I'm telling you what, it's been such a joy for me to sit
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and to listen to. That's what Pastoria clinical
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Pastoria education has taught me to do is to listen to people.
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And while we listening to people without forming a response to
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anything, just listening. And then God would give you the
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God would give you the answer. Sometimes you don't need the
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answer. Sometimes you don't need to say
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anything. They just need to get out what
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they need to get out. It's been phenomenal, man.
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It's been phenomenal being a chaplain.
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Yes, it has. Now, you know, you encounter
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some people that have that dealing with some of the hardest
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things in their lives, some of them, right.
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How did you, how did you take those experiences without taking
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it home? How do you, you know, how do you
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hear that over and over without taking some of that stuff home?
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How do you kind of? Yeah, yeah.
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Another great question, man. Yeah, yeah, another great
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question. You know, the Bible tells us the
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cast all about cares upon him for he cares for us.
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I've always had a like a little, if it's 1520 minutes commute or
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whatever, you know, I listen to music, I listen to podcasts, I
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listen to things. I, I kind of wind down just like
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my wife. She looks, you know, if she's
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working or whatever she's doing, she comes home.
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Most of us come home. We don't really want to, we, we
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want a little bit of free time. We want to really, can I unwind
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a minute? You know, whatever.
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And so we, we got to learn how to, to do those types of things.
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Even here at the hospital. Every day is different, man.
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And when I was in corporate America, it was boy, I'm telling
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you what, but it was fire every day and I would leave and go
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home And the last thing I want to hear my wife do well, tell me
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about work she do she do not live.
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I don't even want to talk about you know what I'm saying?
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And so I just learned to leave it.
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I learned to leave it where it's at, you know, and and I come
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home. I call it being fully present in
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the moment intimacy into me. You see my wife when I get home
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to my wife and my family, they want intimacy.
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They want me to be into them. Yeah.
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We have to learn how to do it. If it's ministry, corporate,
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whatever it may be. I step in the house and I tell
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her I listen to what my wife I want.
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I ask her how has her day been? And then she asked me how has my
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been. We have an exchange and if we
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need to pray about something, we pray about it.
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If we don't, man, we keep moving.
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Yes, Sir. We take in the evening.
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Yes. Sir, Amen.
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Since since being a pastor is more of like you said, more of a
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self thing, were you were you preaching instead of listening?
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Do you think pastors should should consider chaplaincy as an
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extension of their ministry to kind of help them grow to see
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both sides of it minister? Man, I don't know how many
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people I've met in here that don't have a church home.
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Wow. There's a lot of unchurched
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people, man, in the world. And we know where they're saying
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that people are leaving church. They are, but I see some of
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those. I see some, I see a lot of God
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fearing unchurched people. They fear God, man.
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There's a lot of people that fear God.
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They don't, they don't look like church people.
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They don't dress like church people.
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They don't, but they fear God. They have a fear for God.
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And I'm telling you so I, I, that's why I would convince any
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pastor to, if they don't do nothing but go take the CPE
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clinical pastoral education training, which requires 4400
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hours of working in the hospital.
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And there's some small group training that's along with that.
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If they don't do nothing, we'll go and do a couple of those.
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I think that they would, it would give them, it would, it
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would change their perspective, I think on, on, on ministry.
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Amen. In ministry, right, How hard is
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it as a pastor? How hard is it to carry people
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week out the week, day out the day?
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Well. You know.
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Yeah, well, again, it comes back to your team, but it also comes
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back to I'm the under shepherd or the lead sheep, Amen.
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Jesus is the Good Shepherd, the great Shepherd, and the chief
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shepherd, Amen. I'm nobody's God, Amen.
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It's not my church, it's his church, Amen.
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And because of his church, if I got a problem with one of his,
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his, his, his, his sons or daughters, I go to him about
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that, you know what I'm saying? And I don't have to carry.
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I don't have to carry them because my goal is not to get
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them close to me, but to get them close to him.
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Amen. You hear what I'm saying?
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Yeah. I want Jesus came that we could
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go to God for ourselves. And so I won't.
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I want every church member, I teach church members to grow up.
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Amen. And you go to God for yourself.
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Amen. Yes, Sir.
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I know you ain't got grandma and granddad and them no MO, but you
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sure ain't gonna have me. I'm going to intercede for you.
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But the Bible says there's one mediator.
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There's one mediator between God and man, and it's that man
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Christ Jesus. Amen.
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So I, I point people to him, man.
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And don't get me wrong, I intercede and pray for the
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congregation. I intercede and pray for the
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people here in the hospital. And I, I take great joy at doing
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that. But I want people not dependent
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upon me. I want them to be dependent upon
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him. You know, for the young pastors
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out there, you know, young people pastors, is they just
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getting into it? Is it is it is it OK for them to
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admit that they're tired without questioning their calling?
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Because you know, some people get tired in it and they like,
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well, God, did you really call me to do this?
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Because it gets because it gets, you know, it gets taxing
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sometime. And I think because they don't
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have the structure that you had in you have in place, you know,
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like team and they they trying to carry it all themselves.
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Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. And yes, it's, it's OK to be
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tired, man. It's OK to.
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I remember early on I had so much energy, man.
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I, you know, I was, you know, the zeal and all of those types
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of things that I had early on in the ministry and the preaching
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and all of those albums on the radio.
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I was doing all kinds of stuff. We would, you know, outreach
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ministry and, and I believe in all of that, but we also got to
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understand there's a pace that we got to go ahead and that we
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got to understand. There's times in season, There's
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going to be times in season. I, I, I used to say, well, I had
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a ministry week. Amen.
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I mean, something happened Monday, Sunday through Sunday,
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you know what I'm saying? Every day that was a, it was a
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taxing week on because something was going on.
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But then I had weeks where, you know, I could catch my breath
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and, and, and and rest, you know what I'm saying?
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There was something I didn't have to be and everything I
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didn't have to be seen everywhere.
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That that's the things, you know, and, and then, you know,
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and these tags and Titans we got nowadays, you know, these young
57:27
brothers and some of the older folks having as well, you know,
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it's not about tags and Titans. It's not about trying to be over
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this and all of that. Just be who God has called you
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to be. And God has a timing and a
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season for all of us, man and and rest in the Lord, Amen.
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If if we're tired and burnt out, it's, it's, it's really a
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indication that we're not sitting at the feet of the Lord.
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It's it's really a telltale sign that we're trying to do this in
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our own Smith and our power. I mean Zerubbabel said, I mean
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the Zechariah, Zerubbabel said, Zechariah 4 and 6 not, not by my
58:05
power, no, by my mic, but by my spirit, say if the Lord, Amen.
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And that's it brother, we brother, I'm here to tell you
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man, we can't do this thing in our own strength, Amen.
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We got to do it. The Bible says Jesus was
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anointed, Acts 1038. He was anointed with power and
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with the Holy Ghost and he went about doing good, Amen.
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We need that same anointing and power and how we get it is
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sitting at the feet of the Lord. You know what I'm saying in the
58:30
word prayer is there's no shortcuts.
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Amen to the anointing of God. All right.
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So before we close right, because we got probably like a
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minute left. Yes, Sir.
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If it's a page out there watching, they working 4060
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hours a week, right, what would you say to them?
58:52
If they're thinking about quitting, what would you say to
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them? If, hey, listen, I understand
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you're working, you got the church going on, you got the
59:00
people calling you all the time because you don't have any
59:03
order. What would you say to them?
59:06
I, I would, I would say to them to, to examine them, to examine
59:09
themselves, just kind of see where they're at and see what,
59:12
see what might be out of place and what might be wrong.
59:16
And, and it's a season, you know what I'm saying?
59:18
Sometimes we, we, we, you know, the, the doors, the, the, the
59:24
new season, the new chapters right around the corner.
59:27
And, and the enemy wants us to give up.
59:29
He wants us to throw in the tower.
59:31
And I would say surround yourself with with other people
59:34
that you can be able to talk to about these moments.
59:37
You know that we can pray for one another and encourage one
59:41
another. Bill, when I got a friend that's
59:43
an encourage, I got several people I can call their
59:46
encouragers even when they are down, even when they got stuff
59:50
going on, they can still encourage me because God has
59:53
called them to be an encourager. And that's what we need to have.
59:55
We need to have encouragers in our lives.
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And, and I know who to call when things get get get down for me,
1:00:02
Amen. I can, I got two or three people
1:00:03
I can call and they going to encourage me when they going to
1:00:06
make me feel like I'm the best preacher that ever set foot in
1:00:10
the planet. You know what I'm saying?
1:00:12
And I thank God for that, man. We all need to be encouraged for
1:00:15
the Hallelujah. Amen.
1:00:17
Before we get out is anything you want to share with the
1:00:19
people, any platforms you want to, you want to put your church
1:00:22
out there for people to come visit?
1:00:24
Anything you want to share Before we go?
1:00:26
Before we go? Yeah, we're in Bread of Life
1:00:29
Church. I mean, we're in Cincinnati.
1:00:32
Is, is. And also in Dun, the, the small
1:00:36
town, the city of Dun, Dun in Bread of Life Church.
1:00:39
You can find us on social media out there at Bread of Life
1:00:42
Church nc.org, a brother like Cincy Amen for the Cincinnati
1:00:47
locations there, but you can find me on LinkedIn and on
1:00:50
Facebook is Eric White Amen. I'm out there LinkedIn on the
1:00:53
professional side is the clinical chaplain and and as
1:00:56
pastor, lead pastor there. And you can also find me out on
1:01:00
Facebook. I don't do a lot of social media
1:01:02
out on Facebook, but I don't phone anybody else that does.
1:01:04
I just don't have the time to to to be caught up out there.
1:01:09
Not not against it. I just don't have the time.
1:01:11
Amen. Well, listen, I appreciate this
1:01:14
was really informative the people you know that that's want
1:01:19
to go and ministry giving it from a different perspective.
1:01:21
I told y'all we talking about pastors in the workplace.
1:01:25
He had work y'all that's. Right.
1:01:27
He had work right now, so ain't no he's showing you here at
1:01:31
work. So it's about pastors in the
1:01:32
workplace. So he's living it.
1:01:34
He's doing it and pastor, I appreciate you coming on and you
1:01:39
know we got I got to get you back on for this type of show.
1:01:43
We're going to set that up too. All right, hey, so I thank y'all
1:01:47
for joining Man talk 133 of men unite.
1:01:50
Don't forget check us out our heart, Spotify, Pandora,
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Stay connected until next time. Thank y'all for joining.
1:02:03
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