Latest / The Living Waters Podcast / Ep. 287 - Are Christianity and Science Opposed to Each Other?

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Ep. 287 - Are Christianity and Science Opposed to Each Other? · The Living Waters Podcast

• 1:04
  Speaker 1: Is it possible that you could be wrong about what you think is true, and if somebody says, well, no, I can't be wrong?
• 1:11
  Speaker 1: Well, let's suppose for a moment that you know an amazing 1% of all the cumulative knowledge in the entire universe.
• 1:16
  Speaker 1: You don't know what else is out there.
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: And to say that you know 1%, I mean that's absolutely amazing when it comes to the universe.
• 1:22
  Speaker 1: But when it comes to taking a test, if you only got 1% on a test, that's a failure.
• 1:27
  Speaker 1: It's as if you didn't show up right.
• 1:28
  Speaker 1: So is it possible, in the remaining 99% of the knowledge that you've yet to come across, that it can contradict the 1% you think you do know?
• 1:34
  Speaker 1: At that point they are forced to say, yeah, I guess it can contradict.
• 1:37
  Speaker 1: So, in other words, you don't know anything, because in order to know anything, you have to know everything, or you need to have revelation from someone who does know everything and has revealed it in such a way that you can know certain things for certain.
• 1:57
  Speaker 2: It was glorious the other day when I walked into our kitchen here at Living Waters and I found one of you, with great guilt, eating some cinnamon rolls you weren't supposed to be eating because you're on a diet.
• 2:13
  Speaker 2: Now I will not humiliate or embarrass this person.
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: I will not embarrass them, I will not point them out.
• 2:21
  Speaker 2: I will just simply say it wasn't Oscar or Ray, because I would never out my friend.
• 2:27
  Speaker 1: Did you have any of that cinnamon roll?
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I did not, Mark.
• 2:29
  Speaker 1: I think Ron Love made it.
• 2:30
  Speaker 1: It was so good I love cinnamon roll.
• 2:33
  Speaker 2: And Mark, he looked like a little kid that got caught with his hand in the cookie jar and that white creamy stuff.
• 2:41
  Speaker 2: You had it, I did it.
• 2:43
  Speaker 2: I was tempted, though.
• 2:44
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was really really.
• 2:45
  Speaker 1: Is it because it starts with the word sin?
• 2:47
  Speaker 2: really yeah because of the sin of men.
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was invented in cincinnati the sin of men cincinnati.
• 2:55
  Speaker 4: Yeah, they'll have them in the millennium yeah, yeah, that's actually what easy said to run when he brought it.
• 3:01
  Speaker 4: He goes cinnamon roll.
• 3:02
  Speaker 4: I've been to cincinnati.
• 3:03
  Speaker 2: I love cincinnati oh man, I'll never live that down, but you know diets stink.
• 3:10
  Speaker 2: Let me just say that what?
• 3:12
  Speaker 2: Oh, diet stink, diet stink yeah yeah like uh, yeah, really stink, but but the the outcome is beautiful, but they stink, so I'm still doing my.
• 3:22
  Speaker 2: Uh, what do they call it?
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: mark omad oh, yeah, one meal a day and then I get presented with cinnamon rolls in front of my face.
• 3:29
  Speaker 2: Is it dinner, lunch, breakfast?
• 3:32
  Speaker 2: Yeah, usually dinner, but if I have lunch with someone I might have lunch and then skip dinner.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: How many calories.
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: I don't do calorie stuff Jive.
• 3:41
  Speaker 2: I think calorie counting is bondage.
• 3:44
  Speaker 1: That's why you look the way you do.
• 3:45
  Speaker 1: You count calories.
• 3:47
  Speaker 4: Oscar, I do my macros.
• 3:49
  Speaker 1: What's the difference between macro and?
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: micro.
• 3:50
  Speaker 4: What's the difference?
• 3:52
  Speaker 4: One is small and one is big.
• 3:54
  Speaker 1: Next question that's what that means Is it a large portion of food or a small?
• 3:57
  Speaker 4: portion of food.
• 3:58
  Speaker 4: Well, macro and micro, you can say for economics or whatever the case.
• 4:01
  Speaker 4: But yeah, when you're counting your macros, you're counting fat, protein and carbs.
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: That's what the macro counting is.
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, I know people that do the carb counting or they'll do like the size of your hand kind of portion.
• 4:20
  Speaker 2: What if you're Andre the?
• 4:21
  Speaker 1: Giant.
• 4:22
  Speaker 1: Same thing, he's a big guy, yeah right.
• 4:25
  Speaker 2: You do portions Too soon.
• 4:27
  Speaker 3: Size of your hand.
• 4:28
  Speaker 2: Well, they'll say, like I had a piece of meat or chicken the size of my Does that work with chocolate?
• 4:32
  Speaker 2: I don't know, Try it right.
• 4:34
  Speaker 2: Just the size of the hand, yeah, size of my foot Size, 15 large, yeah, but you know, it's a blessing to walk in self-control though at times, because we're living in a culture where that just doesn't exist by and large and I think, yeah, it's fun.
• 4:56
  Speaker 3: It's the world that believes freedom is the way to bondage.
• 4:59
  Speaker 3: Because that's the way it is.
• 5:00
  Speaker 3: You're free to follow your own desires and appetites.
• 5:04
  Speaker 3: You're going to end up in bondage.
• 5:05
  Speaker 3: That's so true Slave to them.
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: Ray, you're still enjoying lots of meat.
• 5:09
  Speaker 3: Yes, certainly I am made of meat Mate, you're a mate man.
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: Meathead, meathead, yeah, you still doing like high protein stuff.
• 5:18
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I am.
• 5:19
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I stay off all the stuff that's bad for you Like broccoli and Brussels sprouts.
• 5:23
  Speaker 3: I've been eating more vegetables.
• 5:25
  Speaker 3: I've gone back to vegetables.
• 5:26
  Speaker 2: I backslid from carnivore and I still eat a lot of meat.
• 5:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you've got to have your veggies.
• 5:33
  Speaker 1: But no processed foods.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: Like no in and out.
• 5:35
  Speaker 3: No, it's horrible, but I do it.
• 5:37
  Speaker 3: I have to Because I immediately get problems with my little body if I eat things like that Heartburn and stuff like that.
• 5:46
  Speaker 2: I saw a video the other day of this dog owner and he had his dog blindfolded and he put chicken in front of its nose but then gave it broccoli instead.
• 5:55
  Speaker 2: Really, the dog did the first two bites and then it's like it shook the blinders off and it growled at him.
• 6:03
  Speaker 2: But yeah, you done the peanut butter thing.
• 6:07
  Speaker 3: I've mentioned that before with dogs Peanut.
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: But yeah you done the peanut butter thing.
• 6:08
  Speaker 3: I've mentioned that before With dogs, peanut butter on the roof Of their mouth.
• 6:10
  Speaker 2: What do you do with that?
• 6:11
  Speaker 3: You've never tried that.
• 6:12
  Speaker 3: No, you scoop peanut butter On two fingers and put it in the dog's mouth and scrape it Onto the roof of the mouth and for the next five minutes the dog talks to you it goes.
• 6:21
  Speaker 3: Is that dog abuse?
• 6:25
  Speaker 3: No, the dog Absolutely loves it.
• 6:27
  Speaker 3: It works on humans too, it does.
• 6:30
  Speaker 2: Come Oscar, let us try.
• 6:33
  Speaker 3: No, the dogs love it and it really is funny to watch them.
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I used to give my dog the what do they call them?
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: You know those things where you stick peanut butter into and you freeze it and then it's like a treat for them, but they spend an hour trying to get all the peanut butter from in there.
• 6:47
  Speaker 2: Peta's going to call you guys after this episode.
• 6:49
  Speaker 2: People for the eating of tasty animals.
• 6:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, All right friends, time for a cool, classy comment.
• 6:56
  Speaker 2: This is from Brytall White.
• 6:59
  Speaker 2: Brytall White Welcomed into a friend group, says the subject line.
• 7:07
  Speaker 2: I've been listening for over two years now and love this podcast.
• 7:08
  Speaker 2: All four men take their walks with the Lord seriously, with thanksgiving and joy.
• 7:13
  Speaker 2: This is displayed through the friendship as well as their convictions on each topic.
• 7:17
  Speaker 2: I recommend it.
• 7:18
  Speaker 2: Every time I'm around someone, my dad and I like to start our texting or in-person conversations with all right friends.
• 7:25
  Speaker 2: It's spreading.
• 7:26
  Speaker 4: Yeah, right, spreading.
• 7:27
  Speaker 4: Sorry about that, it's spreading.
• 7:28
  Speaker 2: Yeah, right, spreading Like a disease.
• 7:30
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, pretty much, yeah and um, what a blessing.
• 7:35
  Speaker 2: Thank you so much, brital White, and may the Lord continue to bless you.
• 7:39
  Speaker 2: Two years, guys, that's wild, stuck it out for two years.
• 7:42
  Speaker 3: That friends thing started with that Southern California announcer for.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: KK.
• 7:46
  Speaker 2: Kelly Warren Duffy, Warren Duffy.
• 7:47
  Speaker 2: Yeah, Thank you friends.
• 7:50
  Speaker 2: That's what he said We'd imitate it.
• 7:54
  Speaker 2: That's where it came from and then it slipped into here.
• 7:56
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you went on with Warren Duffy Rainey A number of times.
• 7:59
  Speaker 2: Yeah, he used to be, wasn't he one of the managers for the Beach Boys?
• 8:02
  Speaker 2: The Beach Boys, the.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: Beach Boys.
• 8:03
  Speaker 3: He was a manager for the Beach Boys and became a believer and then did his program.
• 8:07
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thank you, dave Dino.
• 8:09
  Speaker 2: Remember his sidekick, really nice guy.
• 8:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, we had him.
• 8:14
  Speaker 2: Yeah, all right, friends.
• 8:16
  Speaker 2: Now a radically revolutionary resource.
• 8:18
  Speaker 2: This podcast is brought to you by ooh, scientific fact, fact fact in the Bible Ray.
• 8:23
  Speaker 2: It's got to be at least a few times a year.
• 8:27
  Speaker 2: I get people that text me, specifically in airports, with a picture of this thing.
• 8:32
  Speaker 1: That's wonderful.
• 8:32
  Speaker 2: They're trying to get them out of the country Someone just did that the other day 600,000 of these in print.
• 8:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, so encouraging, Ray, when you wrote it did you know?
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: No, I didn't.
• 8:44
  Speaker 3: But then I began to see its potential evangelistically, that it's a great book to give to unsaved people.
• 8:50
  Speaker 3: We just had 50,000 printed just recently and already 11,000 have sold.
• 8:55
  Speaker 3: Because we got 50,000 printed, it was able to bring the unit price down to under a dollar each.
• 9:00
  Speaker 3: When you buy a box, normally it's $7.99 per book, but you get a box.
• 9:04
  Speaker 3: You get them for something like, I think, 99 cents, something like that.
• 9:07
  Speaker 3: So it's a giveaway.
• 9:08
  Speaker 3: It's got the gospel in it and it really speaks to the intellect of an unsaved person.
• 9:15
  Speaker 2: And you know what I love about it is it's just a hundred pages, which means it's an easy read, but it's also easy to give out because you can carry them with you and it's got little pictures in it.
• 9:25
  Speaker 1: Oh yeah, Raise the gospel in this book.
• 9:29
  Speaker 3: It's the Pope a sinner.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 9:31
  Speaker 2: And then it highlights some other things in here.
• 9:34
  Speaker 2: Oh, the four gospels, how to know God exists.
• 9:36
  Speaker 2: Made in heaven, one of my favorites still.
• 9:38
  Speaker 2: Made in Heaven.
• 9:39
  Speaker 2: Yes, great book.
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: I wrote that with an aerospace scientist or whatever Aerospace engineer, rocket scientist, an aerospace scientist, jeff Sedo.
• 9:47
  Speaker 2: Yes, yeah, no, that's a really good book.
• 9:49
  Speaker 2: But, ray, I love this and I've been seeing you, you've been giving this out when you're doing your videos All the time.
• 9:56
  Speaker 3: And what I love is I just had it yesterday.
• 9:58
  Speaker 3: I said can I give you a book I've written called Scientific Facts in the Bible?
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: And the guy says no.
• 10:01
  Speaker 3: I said, well, let me just put it in your hand.
• 10:04
  Speaker 3: And he wouldn't give it back Because it's got an appealing cover.
• 10:07
  Speaker 3: It's got dinosaurs and Einstein on the front.
• 10:11
  Speaker 2: Let me just put it in your hand.
• 10:12
  Speaker 2: That's Einstein.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: I thought that was you.
• 10:14
  Speaker 3: Yeah, well, it is me.
• 10:15
  Speaker 2: but before I dye my hair, Ah, yeah, when you see an Einstein look-alike, yeah, good book, ray, and you've got to get it.
• 10:24
  Speaker 2: Friends.
• 10:25
  Speaker 2: Scientific Facts in the Bible.
• 10:26
  Speaker 2: Livingwaterscom At LivingWaterscom.
• 10:29
  Speaker 2: Wow, is this the first time we've been normal?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: What?
• 10:33
  Speaker 2: Does that mean First time, normal, all right friends.
• 10:38
  Speaker 3: Today we are talking about oh what do you know it ties into your book.
• 10:42
  Speaker 3: There could be some enemies that listen to this program all right enemies.
• 10:49
  Speaker 2: Um, today we're dealing with a topic that, lo and behold, ties in with the title of ray's book.
• 10:54
  Speaker 2: Today we're going to be talking about are Christianity and science opposed to each other?
• 11:01
  Speaker 3: Ray, yes, okay thank you for joining us friends.
• 11:04
  Speaker 2: I'm never asking you another question again, ray, for as long as you shall live.
• 11:07
  Speaker 3: When there's nothing in the cupboard, I can't answer.
• 11:09
  Speaker 3: Create in the cupboard.
• 11:11
  Speaker 2: Okay, yeah.
• 11:12
  Speaker 2: So today we're going to be dealing with this subject, and this is another one where we, as Christians, are painted out to be dumb, idiotic, doofy.
• 11:22
  Speaker 2: Is it doofy or doofuses?
• 11:23
  Speaker 2: Oh, there you go.
• 11:24
  Speaker 2: I've been called both, both Doofy, doofuses.
• 11:27
  Speaker 3: I think doofy would be good.
• 11:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that confirms you're a doofus Ray.
• 11:30
  Speaker 3: How?
• 11:31
  Speaker 2: cool would it be to get you and Richard Dawkins in a room?
• 11:34
  Speaker 2: I have tried Debating each other.
• 11:36
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've tried Debating each other.
• 11:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I've tried.
• 11:38
  Speaker 3: Would you do it now still.
• 11:39
  Speaker 3: Yes, yeah, that's what Dr Dawkins called out.
• 11:40
  Speaker 3: Yes, yes, we offered him $20,000.
• 11:42
  Speaker 3: He said no, $100,000.
• 11:43
  Speaker 3: I said forget it.
• 11:44
  Speaker 4: Wow, this is years Would you get on an airplane to do it.
• 11:47
  Speaker 4: What's that?
• 11:55
  Speaker 2: Would you get on an airplane to dokins?
• 11:56
  Speaker 2: No, I'd do it via Zoom.
• 11:57
  Speaker 2: If he said that's the only way I'll do it, I'd say hard luck, buddy.
• 12:00
  Speaker 2: See how opposed to traveling, hard luck, yeah.
• 12:06
  Speaker 3: But Richard, in fact this ties in because obviously I would love to be the pilot of a plane where Richard Dawkins is in there.
• 12:13
  Speaker 3: I'd just turn the plane upside down and say are you praying yet?
• 12:17
  Speaker 2: Take him out of his seat.
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: So, ray, but it'd be good to kind of touch on this Richard Dawkins, he's doing his like swan song.
• 12:26
  Speaker 3: Yes, he is yeah, he's getting old I think he's 84 or something like that and he's thinking about his own mortality, which is a nice way about thinking about dying.
• 12:34
  Speaker 3: All his friends are dying.
• 12:36
  Speaker 3: He should write a book.
• 12:37
  Speaker 3: Yeah, like you know.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: All his friends are dying.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: He should write a book.
• 12:38
  Speaker 3: Ha yeah, like you know, a lot of these famous atheists have just died recently.
• 12:41
  Speaker 3: So he's thinking about his death, and so he's doing one swan song, which is the title we use when someone's gonna die You're gonna sneeze, mark Sneeze.
• 12:51
  Speaker 2: I held it back you can do it, no blessing.
• 12:53
  Speaker 2: You'll explode your head.
• 12:54
  Speaker 2: You missed out on a blessing from us, mark.
• 12:56
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 12:56
  Speaker 1: Still live.
• 12:57
  Speaker 1: I held it back.
• 12:58
  Speaker 1: I'll say this.
• 12:59
  Speaker 1: My son, nathaniel, came to me and he said Dad, you know, nobody of my generation really knows who Richard Dawkins is Seriously I go, he's not even dead yet has he faded that much?
• 13:07
  Speaker 1: Well, yeah, he's living off the laurels of yesteryear's accomplishments, whatever those even are.
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah.
• 13:13
  Speaker 2: Well, we remember our dear brother Josh that came in here.
• 13:17
  Speaker 2: And he was saved through the gospel, but then he was the right-hand man of Richard Dawkins.
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: In fact, the Four Horsemen interview, he filmed it with those.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: He also filmed.
• 13:28
  Speaker 2: Didn't he film Dawkins when he was mocking your book that?
• 13:31
  Speaker 3: you sent him.
• 13:31
  Speaker 2: Yes yes.
• 13:32
  Speaker 2: Thoughts, yes, thoughts.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Thoughts.
• 13:35
  Speaker 3: Yeah, that's in the film the Fool, which you can watch online.
• 13:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, thoughts.
• 13:40
  Speaker 2: Yeah, that's in the film the Fool, which you can watch online.
• 13:41
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I was just complimenting Brad the other day on how cool his artwork is with that.
• 13:47
  Speaker 3: Made you look like a fool.
• 13:48
  Speaker 3: When he come back with just me standing there, I would have been offended.
• 13:50
  Speaker 3: But he mess around with it.
• 13:52
  Speaker 3: That was really good.
• 13:53
  Speaker 2: So, mark, this has been the accusation against Christianity for a long time, against the Word of God, christianity or the Bible and science.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: They're opposed to each other.
• 14:08
  Speaker 2: Christianity and science there's just no compatibility.
• 14:11
  Speaker 2: Christianity is a stupid sort of backward religion and science is a standard.
• 14:16
  Speaker 2: What do you say?
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: It starts with your presupposition.
• 14:18
  Speaker 1: First of all, Remember, non-Christians have the same evidence that we have.
• 14:23
  Speaker 1: We just approach that evidence differently.
• 14:25
  Speaker 1: We look at it through a different lens and when you attempt to make any sort of leeway, headway, sense of whatever evidence is out there, you are going to be put to the side as somebody who makes absolutely no sense and you should be ridiculed.
• 14:41
  Speaker 1: And when I point out the fact that a lot of scientists are Christians, they don't think that you're being honest.
• 14:48
  Speaker 1: There's no integrity even in the midst of that.
• 14:50
  Speaker 1: And there are quite a few people that have started different scientific fields, the founders of different scientific fields, that were either religious, held to some sort of a higher power, or were Christians outright.
• 15:03
  Speaker 1: I think maybe you'd want to get into that in a little bit, but even the quotes that they've said in the midst of that are absolutely amazing.
• 15:09
  Speaker 1: I would even go as far as just saying well, let's just start at the beginning, right?
• 15:13
  Speaker 1: And what I mean by that is well, what happened in the beginning?
• 15:16
  Speaker 1: I'm going to say that God created the heavens and the earth.
• 15:19
  Speaker 1: He spoke everything into existence.
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: What are you going to say?
• 15:22
  Speaker 1: And a lot of times people just regurgitate things that they've heard, which is simply there's a big bang or there's an explosion.
• 15:28
  Speaker 1: Well, what sort of an explosion creates order?
• 15:31
  Speaker 1: Because that would be unscientific, right, Every explosion creates chaos and not order.
• 15:37
  Speaker 1: So I want to start all the way back in the beginning.
• 15:40
  Speaker 1: So I'll say what was there in the beginning.
• 15:43
  Speaker 1: They say there's an explosion.
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: All right, well, you need to have something to explode.
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: I want to know what exploded.
• 15:48
  Speaker 1: Let's go back to that place, what exploded?
• 15:54
  Speaker 1: And there's nothing to say.
• 15:55
  Speaker 1: Right, they don't know where to go from that.
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: And I go right.
• 15:58
  Speaker 1: If I were to humor you and say, all right, I'm going to allow there to be an explosion, we create chaos.
• 16:04
  Speaker 1: How do we get order from disorder?
• 16:07
  Speaker 1: Or how do we get life from non-life right abiogenesis?
• 16:11
  Speaker 1: How how do we come from a place where there's absolutely nothing that can possibly survive to what Ray calls birds and bees and trees and butterflies, and flowers and birds and yeah, et cetera, those sorts of things, all those things that would become unscientific.
• 16:25
  Speaker 1: So now I ask, well, which one of us are being unscientific here, right?
• 16:29
  Speaker 1: And so I'm excited to get into all of that stuff.
• 16:31
  Speaker 1: Very exciting.
• 16:33
  Speaker 2: Yeah, yeah, yeah, and and again.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: The thing we have to remember is that we live in a world that is addicted to regurgitating mantras and repeating what they've heard by others, and that's why I love it when someone says, oh, the Bible's full of contradictions, can you show me some right?
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: They're just simply spitting something out and it's like, oh well, actually you know.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: And so it's the same thing with this.
• 17:00
  Speaker 2: You know, they've heard, oh, christianity is unscientific.
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: You know, the Bible has nothing in it that ties in with science in any way whatsoever.
• 17:07
  Speaker 2: And again, they're just spitting out what they've heard, you know.
• 17:11
  Speaker 2: So, oscar, especially this younger generation today, you know, with what they're being taught in school and how much more we're seeing the degeneration of the pursuit of faith in a sense.
• 17:26
  Speaker 2: I mean we see pockets of revival here or there, but more and more America is becoming secularized, especially, and obviously Europe is far gone.
• 17:32
  Speaker 2: But how do we engage with this young generation?
• 17:36
  Speaker 2: And what say you about this whole subject?
• 17:38
  Speaker 4: Yeah, that's a good question.
• 17:40
  Speaker 4: I actually I start generally from a worldview perspective, which is the first thing I would say is science and Christianity does not oppose each other, historically has not opposed one another and actually historically has complimented one another.
• 17:58
  Speaker 4: It was Augustine who looked at God's word and said that is God's divine book for us to understand his ways.
• 18:08
  Speaker 4: And then he looked at the natural world and said science.
• 18:12
  Speaker 4: He didn't use that word back then, but science is God's natural book to help us understand what he created.
• 18:20
  Speaker 4: I've heard someone say once that science can tell you.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: You kind of touched on this.
• 18:24
  Speaker 4: Science can tell you how something works, but science cannot tell us why something is.
• 18:32
  Speaker 4: That's where philosophy and theology come into play.
• 18:36
  Speaker 4: And then, on top of that, I would tell somebody you actually probably long for a worldview in which God created more than you do, a scientific worldview in which everything comes out of happenstance, because we've talked about this often.
• 18:51
  Speaker 4: In a worldview in which everything just auto-populated itself it's survival of the fittest.
• 18:56
  Speaker 4: The strong will conquer the weak you have no concept for truth, beauty and goodness.
• 19:04
  Speaker 4: There is no justice, there is no equality, there is no morals.
• 19:09
  Speaker 4: All the things you desire in this world can only be true through the lens and context of God creating this world.
• 19:19
  Speaker 4: And so, in other words, the worldview found in the Bible is the one you actually cling to in your everyday, day-to-day lives.
• 19:28
  Speaker 4: And then to kind of point back to what you were saying, you're absolutely right.
• 19:32
  Speaker 4: Like the early scientists, they were all believers, they were all Christians that looked at God's world and said well, since he created this world, there are ways in which we can deconstruct it, that we can like reverse, engineer it to figure out how he made plants and trees and et cetera, et cetera.
• 19:49
  Speaker 4: And so there's famous scientists all throughout history Isaac Newton, devout Protestant, gregor Mendel, an Augustinian monk who founded genetics, robert Boyle, boyle's Law, johannes Kepler, galilee.
• 20:06
  Speaker 4: On and on it goes.
• 20:07
  Speaker 4: Galileo Sorry, what did I say, galilee?
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: Galileo, the shores of Galilee.
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: Thank you, he was Italian, galileo.
• 20:15
  Speaker 4: Luis Pastor, early discovery of microbiology.
• 20:20
  Speaker 4: On and on you can go.
• 20:21
  Speaker 4: And then today, even while we may disagree about their theological dispositions, some of the leading scientists today Francis Collins, head of Genesis for the Human Genome Project, john Lennox, mathematician and philosopher, Russell Cowbrow Burn Cowbrow, cowbyrne professor I'm sure he loves it.
• 20:43
  Speaker 1: I'm butchering his name.
• 20:43
  Speaker 4: Professor of experimental physics at Cambridge, dean Daniel Hastings, head of aeronautics at MIT these are all active scientists today.
• 20:54
  Speaker 4: And then, one of the more fascinating things you talked about this.
• 20:56
  Speaker 4: It's often pitted as though scientists are anti-religious or anti-God, but Pew Research did a survey with scientists and found that 51% of them believe in God, and then live science themselves did a follow-up for that, and two thirds of active working scientists believe that there is a God.
• 21:17
  Speaker 4: So this dichotomy that, like Richard Dawkins, puts out there that somehow all of the scientists are against the Bible, is just not true, right?
• 21:26
  Speaker 2: Well, to me, the thing that drives me nuts is how secular scientists act like they have the corner on science or they've got the monopoly on science.
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: That's why you were driven, nuts.
• 21:39
  Speaker 1: That was it we finally found the origin.
• 21:41
  Speaker 2: Speaking of origins.
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: I'd like to share a couple of quotes, if I may, concerning the people that Oscar had just mentioned, concerning God and the Bible and things of that nature.
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: Isaac Newton, from physics and mathematics.
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: He had said in the absence of any other proof, the thumb alone would convince me of God's existence.
• 21:57
  Speaker 1: I love that Thumbs up for that.
• 22:04
  Speaker 3: Thumbs up for that.
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: What was it?
• 22:08
  Speaker 1: Galilee, galilee, galileo, he said the laws of nature are written by the hand of God.
• 22:10
  Speaker 1: In the language of mathematics, that's including a thumb with the hand of God.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: I like that.
• 22:12
  Speaker 1: Blaise Pascal, he said in faith there is enough light for those who want to believe in, enough darkness to blind those who don't.
• 22:20
  Speaker 1: Robert Boyle, he said when, with bold telescopes, I survey the old and the newly discovered stars and planets, I am filled with admiration of the greatness of God.
• 22:31
  Speaker 1: And then finally, michael Faraday.
• 22:34
  Speaker 1: I have a Faraday box.
• 22:35
  Speaker 1: You guys know what a Faraday box is.
• 22:36
  Speaker 1: Oscar probably does.
• 22:38
  Speaker 2: Faraday box is what you keep your.
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: It keeps people from being able to get the signal of your whatever.
• 22:44
  Speaker 1: I hide my fob inside my Faraday box.
• 22:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah Right, so he was very instrumental in electromagnetism and chemistry.
• 22:51
  Speaker 1: He said the book of nature, which we have to read, is written by the finger of God.
• 22:55
  Speaker 1: The book of nature as we look around at all the stars and the planets and everything around us, it is written by the finger of God.
• 23:04
  Speaker 1: These are people with a devout conviction that there was a supreme being, namely God, the God of the Bible, who was in charge and in control of the different laws around us, from the laws of logic, the laws of nature, the laws of science, the laws of mathematics and, ultimately, the laws of morality.
• 23:21
  Speaker 1: Yeah, Amen.
• 23:22
  Speaker 3: The atheist delusion we touch on DNA being evidence for God's.
• 23:27
  Speaker 2: Oh, ray, I love that.
• 23:28
  Speaker 2: That was one of my favorite bits we've ever done, because you gave people a tangible example.
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: Talk a little bit about how you did that.
• 23:38
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I took the book what's it called Made in.
• 23:40
  Speaker 3: Heaven.
• 23:41
  Speaker 3: Made in Heaven, yeah, the book Made in Heaven, which is a beautiful book.
• 23:45
  Speaker 2: I love the subtitle too Man's Indiscriminate Stealing of God's.
• 23:48
  Speaker 2: Amazing yeah they did?
• 23:49
  Speaker 3: They stole a whole stack of things like Velcro and a lot of things like that.
• 23:52
  Speaker 3: The book highlights those that man stole, those ideas that were given to him by God and made them his own.
• 24:01
  Speaker 3: But I gave them to atheists and said do you think this book could have happened by accident?
• 24:04
  Speaker 3: That the pages fell together in sequential page numbers, that the wording came together in coherent sentences, the cover came together, it bound itself and they say no, no, and we just swung over to the book of life, which is what scientists call dna, the book of life, because it's coherent information.
• 24:22
  Speaker 3: It couldn't have made itself impossible.
• 24:24
  Speaker 3: Wow, that's uh and it's great to see the atheist backslide yeah, don't.
• 24:29
  Speaker 4: We have a scientist in the room, isn't yale?
• 24:30
  Speaker 4: And?
• 24:33
  Speaker 3: he's in charge of the camera.
• 24:34
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the one we will hail you what he has fixed my bike up so wonderfully because he used to work on space vehicles.
• 24:42
  Speaker 3: That's right.
• 24:43
  Speaker 3: And he's retired.
• 24:44
  Speaker 3: He spends all the time in the ministry.
• 24:45
  Speaker 3: He comes to my house and he makes my bike really sing.
• 24:48
  Speaker 3: He's done a wonderful job on it.
• 24:50
  Speaker 2: Yeah.
• 24:50
  Speaker 3: The platform so the dog can sit on it.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yale.
• 24:52
  Speaker 2: Yale went to Yale.
• 24:54
  Speaker 3: No, not to Yale.
• 24:55
  Speaker 2: You know, the thing that I love, though, Ray, as well, is how you keep it simple with people, Because you know, look, we can get in there, it's not deliberate.
• 25:08
  Speaker 3: I have no other choice.
• 25:10
  Speaker 2: I'm just simple, this is who I is, but the fact that you know, look, we can get complicated, we can go highbrow on things with people, but the simplicity of how you present it.
• 25:21
  Speaker 2: See that building over there.
• 25:24
  Speaker 2: How many times have you seen it?
• 25:27
  Speaker 3: Oh, just crazy.
• 25:28
  Speaker 3: Yeah, but that's from Scripture.
• 25:29
  Speaker 3: Corinthians says what building didn't have a builder?
• 25:32
  Speaker 3: It's actually a Bible verse, and it makes sense to see people's eyes widen when they say there's absolutely no evidence of God's existence, none at all.
• 25:39
  Speaker 3: And then 30 seconds later it's I'm no longer an atheist because the building had a builder, the painting had a painter.
• 25:44
  Speaker 3: Couldn't have painted itself.
• 25:45
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 25:51
  Speaker 2: Do you feel Ray?
• 25:52
  Speaker 3: like I mean, do you get excited at those moments because it feels like a weapon?
• 25:55
  Speaker 3: You have just kind of sitting at your side.
• 25:56
  Speaker 2: No I hear your three voices mocking me when I go through it?
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: How through it?
• 25:58
  Speaker 3: How much worse can you get?
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: Yes, I do, it really is.
• 25:59
  Speaker 3: It's like entering a battle and you've got an Uzi and they've got a feather duster, because they've got nothing to stand up against Logic and reason and rationalism and common sense.
• 26:09
  Speaker 2: That's a good place to camp out just for a minute.
• 26:12
  Speaker 2: Mark yeah, logic and reason and rationale and all of that.
• 26:17
  Speaker 2: We remember the great debate, right.
• 26:22
  Speaker 1: Stein.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: Between Stein and Bonson.
• 26:23
  Speaker 2: I thought you were going to say In-N-Out and Five Guys.
• 26:25
  Speaker 2: Wow, we know the answer to that one Five Guys went under, didn't they?
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: Did it.
• 26:30
  Speaker 3: I think it did All five of them at the same time.
• 26:32
  Speaker 3: Well, it was like the four guys, then there was three.
• 26:35
  Speaker 2: They just kept, yeah, going under, but yeah.
• 26:39
  Speaker 2: So that debate was huge.
• 26:41
  Speaker 2: I remember when I first heard it.
• 26:43
  Speaker 2: I mean, it's old now and guys have built on that and I think have come up with even more amazing arguments to engage those that deny God's existence.
• 26:52
  Speaker 2: But you know, in speaking to the atheists who would say that the Bible and science aren't compatible, I love the use of that argument to help them recognize that their foundation is all flawed.
• 27:04
  Speaker 1: Would you just kind of highlight that which part specifically, when we talked about the uniformity of nature, yeah, totally Uniformity of nature.
• 27:12
  Speaker 2: And then the laws of logic and reason and all that.
• 27:15
  Speaker 1: So, for example, the laws of logic, you have the law of non-contradiction, right.
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: This cup cannot be on the table and off the table at the same time and in the same sense.
• 27:22
  Speaker 1: If the cup was on the table and off the table at the same time and in the same sense, that would become illogical.
• 27:27
  Speaker 1: We say it's half on, it's half off, right?
• 27:30
  Speaker 1: Well, that's not in the same time and the same sense, because this half is on and this half is off, right.
• 27:36
  Speaker 1: So where did this law come from?
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: It represents a God that is immaterial.
• 27:38
  Speaker 1: Because this is an immaterial law.
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: You cannot go down to Walmart and purchase the law of non-contradiction.
• 27:43
  Speaker 1: You cannot go down to Walmart and purchase the number four.
• 27:46
  Speaker 1: You can purchase four items, but not the number four.
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: It is an abstract, immaterial entity that only exists in explaining what is happening, which also represents a God who is immaterial, abstract and universal right.
• 28:01
  Speaker 1: So we have the laws of mathematics.
• 28:03
  Speaker 1: We say two plus two is four.
• 28:04
  Speaker 1: Right, absolutely.
• 28:05
  Speaker 1: But if the laws of mathematics or any of the laws are evolving, then it's very possible that two plus two is five.
• 28:12
  Speaker 1: But that makes no sense.
• 28:13
  Speaker 1: We know exactly when the sunrise is going to be in the year 3065, using the laws of science and the laws of mathematics.
• 28:18
  Speaker 1: We're not worried that the sun is not going to rise tomorrow because of the laws of uniformity and scientists that are secularists.
• 28:25
  Speaker 1: They cannot account for these things.
• 28:27
  Speaker 1: As Oscar was saying earlier, we know what something is, but we don't know why something is.
• 28:32
  Speaker 1: So only the Christian worldview comes along and makes sense of all of these laws.
• 28:37
  Speaker 1: They represent a God who doesn't change, who is ultimately therefore a plan in order for man to come and fellowship with him and ultimately stay with him forever.
• 28:46
  Speaker 1: That's ultimately his design, so good.
• 28:49
  Speaker 3: Right Convite Five Guys isn't out of business.
• 28:51
  Speaker 3: I just checked on Snoops.
• 28:53
  Speaker 3: It was a thing that got on the internet Snopes, Snoops, Was it Snoops, Snopes?
• 28:57
  Speaker 3: I better write to them and say is that true that you say Snopes or Snoops?
• 29:02
  Speaker 3: Ray types in Snoops goes to.
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: Snoop Dogg's website.
• 29:05
  Speaker 3: Oh, he's a rapper, so it's Snopes, is it?
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Snopes.
• 29:07
  Speaker 2: Okay, like Snopes.
• 29:09
  Speaker 1: Anyway, they're still in business, right, mark Snopes, yeah, the Scopes monkey trial.
• 29:22
  Speaker 4: That's huge, and I think it's important to recognize that, as we actually depend on something outside of nature to understand nature.
• 29:25
  Speaker 4: Which are those laws that you're explaining?
• 29:26
  Speaker 4: Those laws exist outside of nature and yet influence nature, and science can only account for what is in nature, while depending on something that is outside of nature.
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: That's right.
• 29:38
  Speaker 2: You know, I love it when I'm witnessing to an unbeliever and they've given me this whole mantra on why they're an atheist and why there's no God, and then I really just start to get personal with them and it's so important to do that.
• 29:50
  Speaker 2: Mark, you tell that story of that girl that you talked to at that one college we were at, I can't remember which one Long Beach.
• 29:57
  Speaker 2: Yeah, it was Long Beach, where she you know she was dying.
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: Yeah.
• 30:04
  Speaker 2: And it's like you got into her life and you understood the root behind what she's talking about.
• 30:07
  Speaker 2: You know, and when I'm witnessing the people and they start giving me all this stuff, I just say, look, let me ask you honestly, you ever laying in bed at night and you just start thinking, man, look at this, I mean, look at my eyes and my ability to hear, my ability to create, to love.
• 30:19
  Speaker 2: And so many times I go, yeah, actually, I think about that all the time, you know, and they come clean on that.
• 30:26
  Speaker 2: So it's almost like, in a sense, ray, like you do with the law, it's an ally with the conscience and when you're going back to like reason and logic, you're allying with their innermost thoughts, you know, and with their heart, to be honest and be saying, yeah, I really do.
• 30:41
  Speaker 2: But I'm putting up a front right now.
• 30:43
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I'm glad you mentioned that the use of the law because obviously we've published the evidence Bible and scientific facts in the Bible.
• 30:49
  Speaker 3: But it's very important not to stay with the intellect because we, as human beings and wanting intellectual respect from the world, want to try and not look like dummies.
• 30:58
  Speaker 3: But we do because of the gospel.
• 31:00
  Speaker 3: God's chosen the foolishness of preaching to save those that believe.
• 31:06
  Speaker 3: He's chosen foolish things of the world to confound those that think they're wise.
• 31:08
  Speaker 3: And we tend to want to move away from that reproach that comes with the gospel and cling to intellectualism and say we are scientific for our own dignity's sake.
• 31:15
  Speaker 3: However, if you go down that path, it's really a dead end.
• 31:20
  Speaker 3: If you are able to convince someone that Noah's Ark could have actually been a reality, size the animals God brought the animals, blah, blah, blah, and they say, yeah, I now believe in Noah's Ark.
• 31:29
  Speaker 3: They're not saved, they just believe in Noah's Ark.
• 31:31
  Speaker 3: So now you've got to try and convince them that Joshua stopped the sun in the middle of the sky, sky, and that they shouted and the walls come tumbling down.
• 31:37
  Speaker 3: That Jonah got swatted by a big fish, that Balaam's donkey spoke, that Adam was spoken to by a serpent, so was Eve.
• 31:44
  Speaker 3: And then you've got to go on to the New Testament, walking on water, bread, loaves of bread, to try and intellectually convert someone to the religion of Christianity.
• 31:52
  Speaker 3: So they say I now believe.
• 31:53
  Speaker 3: They still not say because there's no knowledge of sin.
• 31:56
  Speaker 3: So it's very important to move from the intellect to the conscience.
• 32:00
  Speaker 3: Just realize that intellect is just a doorway for you to get into their house.
• 32:04
  Speaker 3: You want to bring the knowledge of sin and we should.
• 32:07
  Speaker 3: If anyone could have convinced anybody scientifically, it was Jesus.
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: He made it all but he didn't go that route.
• 32:13
  Speaker 2: That's such a good point, ray.
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Yeah, I mean easily.
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: He could have done that, and I think, as believers, we have to step back and say, look, nothing hinders God from doing what people want him to do in terms of appear right now and turn the grass orange and the sky purple, or whatever.
• 32:34
  Speaker 2: God can do that.
• 32:36
  Speaker 2: But think of the arrogance involved in that.
• 32:38
  Speaker 2: You're demanding of the God of the universe to condescend to do what you itty-bitty, microscopic creature on the earth wants him to do.
• 32:46
  Speaker 2: I love those like where you squish something with your fingers, but that's basically what's happening there, oscar.
• 32:56
  Speaker 2: There is that accusation against Christianity as an example in this arena.
• 33:01
  Speaker 2: Like they'll say oh, the Bible's unscientific, look it talked about the sun standing still.
• 33:05
  Speaker 2: You know it talks about the sun setting or whatever, but yet these same people use that language.
• 33:11
  Speaker 2: I've never talked to an atheist who goes yeah, the earth is.
• 33:14
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm watching the earth rotate now, I'm watching a sunset, right, right.
• 33:18
  Speaker 2: But yet they unfairly heap that on the Christian.
• 33:21
  Speaker 2: So what do we do in that regard To help them recognize that they're using a double standard and that these things that they just throw out at random they're not consistent with?
• 33:34
  Speaker 4: Yeah, I'm super hesitant to get into a Bible study with a non-believer while I'm out on the street, because it's just a rabbit trail where you're going to jump from one verse to another and you can always explain it.
• 33:45
  Speaker 4: But to to raise point, are you going to be able to get to the gospel and get to their conscience?
• 33:49
  Speaker 4: And so my practical advice for that would be to simply explain.
• 33:54
  Speaker 4: I mean, how often do you read the Bible?
• 33:56
  Speaker 4: How often are you studying God's word, or is this something that you just pull off of a Reddit thread?
• 34:03
  Speaker 4: Be honest with me, and they'll be like yeah, I don't really study the Bible.
• 34:06
  Speaker 4: You're trying to tell me something the Bible says and you don't even know that it says it or not, or what it means to say when you say that, and so there are definitely apparent contradictions.
• 34:16
  Speaker 4: An apparent contradiction is where, ultimately, the problem isn't what the Bible says, but the problem stands with what we think the Bible is saying or how we interpret it, like the death of Judas.
• 34:30
  Speaker 4: Exactly, yeah, plenty of examples, and so my practical advice would to move away from getting into an in-depth Bible study with a non-believer and instead to start aiming for their conscience.
• 34:41
  Speaker 4: And one of the things I love that you constantly do is when you, ray, is when, for the longest time, one of my favorite things that you would do is you would talk to a young man and they'd say oh yeah, you know, I grew up in the church, but then I stepped away from that.
• 34:56
  Speaker 4: And you say something like, oh, you stepped away when you started noticing women, huh, which I love that line because, ultimately, what you're doing is this isn't an issue of intelligence, this is an issue of your conscience.
• 35:06
  Speaker 2: Right yeah.
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: Or the question we say, oh did you?
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: Used to know the Lord?
• 35:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, the other guy.
• 35:13
  Speaker 2: What's behind that one Ray?
• 35:14
  Speaker 3: Well, if you say if someone's.
• 35:15
  Speaker 3: Well, if you say if someone, so I was once a Christian.
• 35:17
  Speaker 3: Oh, did you know the Lord?
• 35:18
  Speaker 3: And he's an atheist now?
• 35:19
  Speaker 3: Yes, so you've just said he's real and you've turned your back on him.
• 35:23
  Speaker 3: You just put your foot in your mouth.
• 35:25
  Speaker 3: I don't even realize often.
• 35:26
  Speaker 3: Yeah, I knew the Lord, it was very real to me, but I realized how dumb it was and I turned away.
• 35:31
  Speaker 2: Oh, I love it Simple.
• 35:35
  Speaker 2: Again, we have another ally in this realm because we can go too far as Christians when we're just trying to again, like Oscar's talking about convince and try to pull them in.
• 35:48
  Speaker 2: But the ally is that Scripture says that everyone knows, no one has an excuse.
• 35:55
  Speaker 2: Can you elaborate on that a little bit?
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: So, more than the conscience you're referring to.
• 35:59
  Speaker 1: You're saying that the invisible attributes of God are clearly seen Romans 1,.
• 36:02
  Speaker 1: Yeah, so everybody that has ever lived knows has general revelation in the existence of God.
• 36:09
  Speaker 1: Right, Because the invisible attributes of God are clearly seen, so that people are without excuse.
• 36:14
  Speaker 1: They just don't know who God is.
• 36:17
  Speaker 1: And this is where specific revelation is needed.
• 36:20
  Speaker 1: Through a missionary or an individual just conversating around the water tower at work, we have the ability, through our voices and through written word, through a gospel track or a book, to bring that very specific revelation.
• 36:34
  Speaker 1: And so many times we stop with that general revelation or we're just trying to convince somebody that God exists, when the Word of God already tells us that.
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: He's already given that evidence to everybody and they've just suppressed that truth in unrighteousness.
• 36:49
  Speaker 1: I'm just going to come up with something very I'm going to come up with this.
• 36:53
  Speaker 1: This is all me.
• 36:54
  Speaker 1: They don't want God to exist, for the same reason a bank robber does not want a police officer to exist.
• 37:01
  Speaker 1: Ray, do you?
• 37:01
  Speaker 3: like that.
• 37:02
  Speaker 3: I really like that.
• 37:03
  Speaker 3: Use that.
• 37:04
  Speaker 3: That's not original.
• 37:06
  Speaker 3: I've used it for years.
• 37:07
  Speaker 4: No, no, you heard it here first, mark just came up with it.
• 37:12
  Speaker 3: Yeah, easy to get hold of that, and he'll just stretch it and make it bigger.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Turn it into a poem in a row?
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: Where did that come from.
• 37:20
  Speaker 2: The little boy would ask.
• 37:21
  Speaker 2: I remember Ray being in disbelief when I took his.
• 37:24
  Speaker 2: You know he'd sell you eyes for a million dollars.
• 37:27
  Speaker 3: Yes, right, you'd stretch, it went for 20 minutes.
• 37:30
  Speaker 3: Would you sell an eye for a million dollars, would you?
• 37:35
  Speaker 1: That's really good, yeah.
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: So what do we do?
• 37:36
  Speaker 1: We spend all the time trying to convince somebody of something that they are already convinced of.
• 37:42
  Speaker 1: There's a danger in the midst of that, because what kind of evidence would be admissible in the curtain of the mind of an individual who looks at the intricacies of the human eyeball and say that that evolved?
• 37:52
  Speaker 1: No, there is enough evidence there.
• 37:54
  Speaker 1: So this is what Ray's talking about.
• 37:56
  Speaker 1: We need to be careful on tickling the intellect so much that we never get to the gospel, which is the power of God in salvation.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: I love it.
• 38:02
  Speaker 4: You remind me of what Charles Taylor said in his book A Secular Age, which is, he points out, that as we move into a secular society we're gonna become pluralistic.
• 38:11
  Speaker 4: And one of the things that happens in a pluralistic society is that every single day you're gonna bump up against alternative worldviews to your own.
• 38:19
  Speaker 4: Now this is very unusual to human history.
• 38:23
  Speaker 4: For most of human history, the neighbor you live next to the village, for that matter, that you lived in pretty much everyone believed exactly what you believed in.
• 38:32
  Speaker 4: But now that we live in a pluralistic society I mean, you take my street, for example we've got obviously Christians, hindus, catholics and Muslims and Buddhists all living on my one street and I'm sure for most of Americans are probably experiencing something very similar.
• 38:48
  Speaker 4: And so Taylor points out that what's going to end up happening is that everybody in their own belief system is going to be living with doubt and uncertainty, by nature of being bumped up against other belief systems.
• 39:02
  Speaker 4: Now he says the Christian will likely struggle more in a pluralistic society with uncertainty and doubt.
• 39:09
  Speaker 4: But then he says so will the atheist.
• 39:12
  Speaker 4: And he goes on to say and I love this phrase, I borrow it all the time he says the atheist, that we're all ultimately being haunted by the gospel Mm-hmm.
• 39:22
  Speaker 4: And as a former atheist I can relate to that, because there was a time I know I've shared it here before but there was a time where I started to realize I cannot account for the language that I use in my life.
• 39:35
  Speaker 4: I can't account for the word love.
• 39:38
  Speaker 4: What is love?
• 39:39
  Speaker 4: That is a transcendent word that cannot be described through science.
• 39:43
  Speaker 4: Right, and I've said this to atheists when I'm having a conversation with them, most recently a doctor in Newport Beach it's on our way of the master.
• 39:50
  Speaker 4: She had a wedding ring on and I'm like are you married?
• 39:53
  Speaker 4: Yes, do you love your husband?
• 39:54
  Speaker 4: Yes, what do you mean by that?
• 39:58
  Speaker 4: Because if it's purely a scientific, or I should say, if it's purely an atheistic worldview where there is nothing but the natural, then you need to go home and tell your husband I don't love you.
• 40:10
  Speaker 4: Rather, when I look at you, neurons and synapses fire off in my brain telling me that you and I should procreate.
• 40:16
  Speaker 4: That's what you have to reduce love down to.
• 40:20
  Speaker 4: But the reality is that nobody wants to live that way, because we all know that love is real and love is transcendent.
• 40:30
  Speaker 4: It cannot be naturally explained, and so the atheist walking around with a wedding ring on is being haunted by the gospel Amen.
• 40:42
  Speaker 3: Oscar, I know I've done this before, but I think it's important for this program.
• 40:45
  Speaker 3: Could you just very quickly tell us what sort of atheist you were?
• 40:48
  Speaker 3: Because people say I was an atheist, but you were a hardcore, yeah.
• 40:53
  Speaker 4: I borrow from Christopher Hitchens called himself a militant atheist and I would call myself a militant atheist as well.
• 40:59
  Speaker 4: When I first became an atheist, that next school year in high school, I specifically remember I heard about a Wednesday morning where a group of kids were gathering under the American flag to pray and I got up super early to go debate with them.
• 41:14
  Speaker 4: I read, you know, all the books that were available to me I took.
• 41:17
  Speaker 4: One of the jokes that I would say is I took a girl on a date to go listen to Sam Harris lecture.
• 41:21
  Speaker 4: What a terrible.
• 41:23
  Speaker 2: I thought it was a great date.
• 41:25
  Speaker 2: It was the last date no.
• 41:30
  Speaker 4: So yeah, I would categorize myself as a well-read militant atheist.
• 41:33
  Speaker 4: You would have Formally Category.
• 41:35
  Speaker 4: I was gonna say I would have, would have formally yeah.
• 41:39
  Speaker 2: Yeah, and look, there isn't a shortage of different issues that the Bible contains that comport with science.
• 41:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, ray, that's what this is all filled with.
• 41:50
  Speaker 2: You're hitting up a bunch of things that correspond to what science tells us.
• 41:54
  Speaker 2: Now I mean, there are lots of things like the hydrological cycle you know of Scripture talking about in Ecclesiastes 1-7, all streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full To the place the streams come from.
• 42:06
  Speaker 2: There they return again.
• 42:09
  Speaker 2: You've got the vastness of the universe, which back in that time, I mean who can number the stars?
• 42:14
  Speaker 2: And it was like a divine insertion, I think, in the scripture that God is the infinite creator who's created a vast universe, isaiah 40-22, he stretches out the heavens like a canopy and spreads them out like a tent to live in.
• 42:29
  Speaker 2: You've got the spherical earth that Isaiah 40, 22 deals with.
• 42:35
  Speaker 2: He sits enthroned above the circle of the earth, health practices and hygiene.
• 42:39
  Speaker 2: You know we're told to use running water where there's quarantine that happens for diseases, where different things that align with that are seen.
• 42:54
  Speaker 2: So, ray, the book is filled with stuff like that.
• 42:56
  Speaker 3: The earth's free-floating space hangs the earth upon nothing.
• 43:00
  Speaker 3: Science then said it sat on the back of three gigantic tortoises.
• 43:04
  Speaker 3: I don't know what the tortoises stood on those dogs are never connected, are they Easy?
• 43:10
  Speaker 1: can you give us examples of scientific facts in the Bible?
• 43:13
  Speaker 2: Listen, mark.
• 43:14
  Speaker 2: But, mark, you know, I love what is often talked about by some apologists, about how, at the end of the day, you either have to know everything in order to prove everything or you have to know someone who knows everything.
• 43:30
  Speaker 1: Yeah, and the way we would word it is.
• 43:32
  Speaker 1: Is it possible that you could be wrong about what you think is true?
• 43:37
  Speaker 1: And if somebody says, well, no, I can't be wrong.
• 43:40
  Speaker 1: Well, let's say, let's suppose for a moment that you know an amazing 1% of all the cumulative knowledge in the entire universe.
• 43:45
  Speaker 1: You don't know what else is out there.
• 43:47
  Speaker 1: And to say that you know 1%, I mean, that's absolutely amazing when it comes to the universe.
• 43:52
  Speaker 1: But when it comes to taking a test, if you only got 1% on a test, that's a failure.
• 43:56
  Speaker 1: It's as if you didn't show up right.
• 43:57
  Speaker 1: So is it possible, in the remaining 99% of the knowledge that you've yet to come across, that it can contradict the 1% you think you do know?
• 44:03
  Speaker 1: At that point they percent you think you do know right.
• 44:12
  Speaker 1: At that point they are forced to say, yeah, I guess it can contradict.
• 44:13
  Speaker 1: So, in other words, you don't know anything, because in order to know anything, you have to know everything, or you need to have revelation from someone who does know everything and has revealed it in such a way that you can know certain things for certain.
• 44:20
  Speaker 3: Yeah, and someone who knows everything knows all about the secret love life of the fleas on the back of napoleon's great-grandmother's black cat.
• 44:27
  Speaker 2: I'll never, never forget reading that, ray, that was in the atheist test track.
• 44:32
  Speaker 2: Yes, that's right, I remember I didn't know you then, but I was so amused by it.
• 44:36
  Speaker 2: I read it to some friends and I just, yeah, killed me.
• 44:39
  Speaker 2: So yeah, and Mark, on that note, and I think how that plays out right is if someone comes to you and says, you know, I know this fact, and you tell them, well, how do you know that fact?
• 44:50
  Speaker 2: They say, well, my professor told me that.
• 44:53
  Speaker 2: How do you know your professor is right?
• 44:54
  Speaker 2: Well, what my professor taught is based on a book.
• 44:56
  Speaker 2: How do you know that book is accurate?
• 44:58
  Speaker 2: Well, I mean, it's an infinite regression.
• 45:00
  Speaker 2: You can keep doing that and so you don't really know, unless you know someone who knows everything and has revealed that.
• 45:07
  Speaker 3: And it's always great to say to an atheist would you be honest with me.
• 45:10
  Speaker 3: This isn't about God's existence.
• 45:12
  Speaker 3: It's about you having sex with your gorgeous girlfriend and looking at porn Am I right?
• 45:16
  Speaker 3: And you'll see his mouth just go up at the edges and you've had so many concede, haven't you?
• 45:21
  Speaker 2: They concede yes Over the years, have you?
• 45:22
  Speaker 4: ever had someone go.
• 45:23
  Speaker 4: She's not gorgeous.
• 45:24
  Speaker 4: Had someone go.
• 45:25
  Speaker 2: She's not gorgeous, that's proof my girlfriend's actually ugly yeah.
• 45:29
  Speaker 2: So friends check it out.
• 45:33
  Speaker 2: Scientific Facts in the Bible.
• 45:36
  Speaker 2: Get the 601st copy because there's 600,000 in print.
• 45:43
  Speaker 2: It's a really, really, really good book.
• 45:46
  Speaker 2: Has been evidenced by people getting it.
• 45:49
  Speaker 2: Make sure to check it out and don't forget the Living Waters, the Evidence Study Bible alllivingwaterscom.
• 45:55
  Speaker 2: Tell us whatever you want at podcastallivingwaterscom.
• 45:58
  Speaker 2: Keep listening.
• 45:59
  Speaker 2: We do this because of you, friends.
• 46:02
  Speaker 2: Thank you for joining us.
• 46:03
  Speaker 2: We'll see you here next time on the Living Waters Podcast, where we have no idea what we're doing.