Latest / Best of Business / Andrew Bascand & Sue Walker: Harbour Asset Management Co-CEO and Harbour Asset Management Senior Manager discuss energy payments

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Andrew Bascand & Sue Walker: Harbour Asset Management Co-CEO and Harbour Asset Management Senior Manager discuss energy payments · Best of Business

0:09
Speaker 1: You're listening to a podcast from News Talk zed B.
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Speaker 1: Follow this and our wide range of podcasts now on iHeartRadio.
0:17
Speaker 2: Two guests this afternoon who are joining us from Hardbresset Management.
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Speaker 2: I will actually let one of them introduce the other.
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Speaker 2: But what we're going to talk about, broadly speaking, is
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Speaker 2: the opportunity that is there for investors and for the
0:32
Speaker 2: economy with electrification, and what it means as an economic story,
0:37
Speaker 2: as an investment story, and anyway, I won't say any
0:40
Speaker 2: more about it, just in case I stumble and say
0:42
Speaker 2: something clumsy. But you're welcome to join the conversation anytime
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Speaker 2: if you are provoked or you have a question for
0:49
Speaker 2: either of our two guests on eight hundred and eighty
0:51
Speaker 2: ten to eighty and look, I've taken to actually just
0:54
Speaker 2: saying you know, we want your call sort of thing.
0:55
Speaker 2: All that blah blah blah is some people don't call
0:59
Speaker 2: because they think, oh, I'm not going to have all
1:00
Speaker 2: the answers. It's like, no, No, you're just meant to
1:03
Speaker 2: join the conversation. You might have a question, a thought,
1:05
Speaker 2: and if you want to share them with us, then
1:06
Speaker 2: we'd love to hear them from you. On one hundred
1:08
Speaker 2: eighty ten eighty. But firstly, it's warm, welcome in the studio.
1:13
Speaker 2: Now it's a new trend for them, for the folk
1:14
Speaker 2: of harbor Asset Management. Andrew Baskan, the co chief executive
1:19
Speaker 2: officer of Harbarrasse gooday, Andrew, how let me just Oh,
1:22
Speaker 2: you've got your MIC's on? Where you go? You get
1:24
Speaker 2: ahad M great, great to be here.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, we've chosen on top of today because everyone uses
1:29
Speaker 3: electricity and power. Yeah, and things are changing, changing a lot,
1:33
Speaker 3: and I wanted to bring in one of our experts,
1:35
Speaker 3: Sue Walker, into the studio.
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Speaker 2: First time.
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Speaker 3: I've known Sue for quite some time, but she really
1:40
Speaker 3: is an expert and not just responsible investing, but really
1:43
Speaker 3: actually where the things are imported for households and businesses
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Speaker 3: in terms of power.
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Speaker 2: I was just happy to see there were two people
1:49
Speaker 2: coming in. I thought, Wow, we have made it. Harb
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Speaker 2: Rasset are bringing in the you know, not just one
1:54
Speaker 2: but two people. So Hi, how are you hi? Good
1:57
Speaker 2: Responsible investment it's sort of intuitively the right It tells
2:02
Speaker 2: us what it is. It's it's investing in things that
2:04
Speaker 2: aren't going to ruin the planet. I guess, is it?
2:07
Speaker 4: Yeah?
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Speaker 5: A little bit like that. And also, you know, making
2:09
Speaker 5: sure that companies are doing the right thing managing their
2:12
Speaker 5: companies well, you know, being a good community citizen, not
2:19
Speaker 5: using modern slavery in their supply chains, all those things.
2:21
Speaker 2: How long have you been just tell us a bit
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Speaker 2: about you. How long have you been with the folk
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Speaker 2: at a harbor asset?
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Speaker 5: So harbor are only just over two years when quite
2:30
Speaker 5: a new bee I am quite a new bee came
2:32
Speaker 5: across from benzead yep.
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Speaker 2: And how long have you been interested in the idea
2:37
Speaker 2: of responsible investments?
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Speaker 5: Probably? I mean it's something that I personally feel strongly about.
2:43
Speaker 5: But working in the industry, about seven or eight years.
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Speaker 2: Okay, it's funny, isn't it, Guys? Because you know, responsible investing,
2:49
Speaker 2: it feels like something that's quite recent. But if you
2:52
Speaker 2: think back, I don't know how many decades people have.
2:54
Speaker 2: When did the conversations actually begin around people thinking about
2:59
Speaker 2: now I've got money, I want to make money out
3:01
Speaker 2: of it, but I do want to think about how
3:04
Speaker 2: that money is being invested.
3:05
Speaker 3: How long have we been doing that for I reckon
3:07
Speaker 3: the GFC was the big thing. We had a lot
3:08
Speaker 3: of companies in the GFC where governance are poor directors
3:12
Speaker 3: didn't do the right thing by their clients and customers
3:16
Speaker 3: and came out of the GFC and recognized actually have
3:19
Speaker 3: to change things. How to think about how companies are managed.
3:23
Speaker 3: Are they managed just for a lot of leverage short
3:25
Speaker 3: term profits? Everson greed, Well, it's been a.
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Speaker 2: Lot changed in terms of what you can say, and
3:30
Speaker 2: people are very careful about financial advice now and everything.
3:33
Speaker 2: I remember the days of I mean, the one that
3:35
Speaker 2: sticks out to me is Hanover. We won't mention that, sorry,
3:42
Speaker 2: And a particularly famous newsreader who promoted an investment that
3:45
Speaker 2: just people lost a lot of money with. I guess,
3:47
Speaker 2: wasn't it.
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Speaker 3: Yeah, So the concept of responsible investment probably predates that
3:51
Speaker 3: as well. But what's been really satisfying over the last
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Speaker 3: four or five years is actually making money. They're correlated
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Speaker 3: and what we're talking about today, obviously electrification highly highly
4:02
Speaker 3: important topic four responsible investing as well.
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Speaker 2: Right by the way, before we do, I did mention
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Speaker 2: to you before, and because I sort of sold it
4:10
Speaker 2: to the listeners, I just had a question for you
4:12
Speaker 2: guys as experts, because you know the IP and this
4:17
Speaker 2: is not related. And then we're going to get on
4:19
Speaker 2: to our topic of the day, the IPO for SpaceX.
4:22
Speaker 2: I have to say not smuggling, because I didn't buy anything.
4:25
Speaker 2: I didn't sell anything, I didn't do anything clever. But
4:27
Speaker 2: I remember thinking, that's going to go through the roof.
4:30
Speaker 2: Elon will be a trillionaire. Then all of a sudden,
4:32
Speaker 2: it's the bottom is going to fall out of it.
4:33
Speaker 2: I don't know where we are, but I was just thinking,
4:36
Speaker 2: you know, IPOs, it's like an Instagram offering, isn't it.
4:39
Speaker 2: You see all the funny ideas and the data centers
4:42
Speaker 2: and rockets and stuff, and it's Elon, let's buy that.
4:45
Speaker 3: And then I sort of wonder if you are speaking
4:47
Speaker 3: for a friend here.
4:48
Speaker 2: Maybe you're not.
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Speaker 3: But but you know, obviously, you know, if you're just
4:53
Speaker 3: talking about investing in one thing, you've always got a
4:56
Speaker 3: lot of risk. Just investing in one thing's a bit
4:58
Speaker 3: of chance. And so I pos themselves if that's the
5:02
Speaker 3: only thing you're doing, then probably you've got a higher
5:04
Speaker 3: risk profile. You're prepared to have higher loss ratio.
5:09
Speaker 2: Right Do they always have a pattern, because the only
5:11
Speaker 2: ones I can't think of anything obvious, but it seems
5:14
Speaker 2: that you get a popular stock, it goes on it
5:16
Speaker 2: goes up, then it goes down, and then I don't
5:17
Speaker 2: know what it does.
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Speaker 3: The crazy thing about SpaceX is that investors have been
5:22
Speaker 3: able to invest in the whole elon stream of thought
5:26
Speaker 3: and businesses for quite some time, both directly and indirectly.
5:30
Speaker 3: The fact that SpaceX is IPO creates a broader range
5:34
Speaker 3: of capability for investors to see a good business and
5:39
Speaker 3: say that's something I want to invest for the next
5:41
Speaker 3: decade or more. The problem with the concept of IPOs
5:45
Speaker 3: is that there is always a little bit of additional
5:49
Speaker 3: hype because you're exposed to a broad well, a broad story,
5:53
Speaker 3: and someone wants to sell something to you, So you're
5:55
Speaker 3: subject to advertising messages and you've got to basically cut
5:58
Speaker 3: out that advertising message and say, do I want to
6:01
Speaker 3: be an investor in this business for ten years, not
6:04
Speaker 3: one month, not one week, not one day, but ten years.
6:07
Speaker 3: That's the sort of this a business that over the
6:09
Speaker 3: next decade is going to be one that wins and
6:13
Speaker 3: look without without being specific, that's exactly the broader, the
6:18
Speaker 3: broader decision you need to make when you invest in
6:20
Speaker 3: a single, particularly a single in.
6:21
Speaker 2: This it's like a gamble ist thing. It's like going
6:23
Speaker 2: to the race. If somebody hears the I p O,
6:24
Speaker 2: I might buy them and sell them after a few days.
6:26
Speaker 2: I don't want to flog that one. I just wanted to,
6:28
Speaker 2: you know, raise it, because I did say to people
6:30
Speaker 2: at the start of the show, I'd ask you.
6:33
Speaker 3: But by and large, people are much better off investing
6:36
Speaker 3: in more diversified savings products by and large, But if
6:40
Speaker 3: they want to have what I would call, you know,
6:42
Speaker 3: experience of owning a tangible ten year journey on an
6:46
Speaker 3: I p O. Because it's not a one it's not
6:48
Speaker 3: a one day journey right now. Yeah, that's okay, but
6:52
Speaker 3: it is tied into this view. But because SpaceX is
6:55
Speaker 3: very tied into the whole concept of where are you
6:57
Speaker 3: going to get your power from?
6:58
Speaker 2: Well, are they a company you can invest in and
7:01
Speaker 2: feel like you're a responsible investors.
7:03
Speaker 3: That's an interesting question, isn't it? Because part of part
7:06
Speaker 3: of a story is where does he get the pre
7:08
Speaker 3: from to generate electricity for the data centers? And the
7:11
Speaker 3: guy's are renewable power freak.
7:13
Speaker 2: I had my daughter say to me Dad, I can't
7:16
Speaker 2: remember what she said, but it was about filming a
7:18
Speaker 2: lot of videos and sticking on Google photos she said
7:21
Speaker 2: were I mean, look, they're teenagers, but she they've become
7:25
Speaker 2: aware of the power usage of these data centers and
7:28
Speaker 2: how they're a problem for energy in terms of where
7:32
Speaker 2: we get the energy from. And they were like, Dad,
7:34
Speaker 2: you shouldn't be storing all these videos because someone has
7:37
Speaker 2: to pay. That power has to come from somewhere, and
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Speaker 2: that's the cause of I don't know what they said
7:41
Speaker 2: it was, but they had a stigma attached to it.
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Speaker 3: And what's happening is policies generally developing quite rapidly. If
7:48
Speaker 3: you want to put in another big new data center somewhere,
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Speaker 3: you're going to have to work out where the power
7:53
Speaker 3: is going to come from. You have to create the
7:55
Speaker 3: opportunity to connect that bread. So I think society has
8:00
Speaker 3: moved on from the fact that that power is going
8:02
Speaker 3: to be taken from here and distributed to there.
8:05
Speaker 2: Okay, so let's get on to electric location. Because I
8:10
Speaker 2: must say, when I saw it electrification, all I thought
8:12
Speaker 2: of was the CRL because that's never coming. But anyway,
8:17
Speaker 2: it is coming at some stage, hopefully soon. But even
8:20
Speaker 2: the word electrification, it was it was it was a
8:24
Speaker 2: word that sort of it almost confused me because it's
8:28
Speaker 2: it's more than just electrification. But so why is electrification
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Speaker 2: a big investment economic story and where are we at
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Speaker 2: with it?
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Speaker 5: So I think it's just with you know, it's more
8:43
Speaker 5: renewable energy side of the electrification story, so that you know,
8:48
Speaker 5: a solar wind, hydro or probably not so much hydro,
8:51
Speaker 5: but certainly solar and wind far becoming far cheaper than
8:55
Speaker 5: things like coal gas for electricity. So it's you know,
9:02
Speaker 5: think about us as homeowners being how to pay less
9:05
Speaker 5: or for electricity. So it's a big economic story. It's
9:09
Speaker 5: not just about climate anymore. It's it's cheaper, it's a
9:13
Speaker 5: it's an energy that we can control. So you know,
9:16
Speaker 5: we're all aware what's happening in the Middle East and
9:19
Speaker 5: you know how that's impacting prices for oil and gas
9:24
Speaker 5: and how we're suffering because of it. Because I think
9:26
Speaker 5: we were talking before that you know, while New Zealand's great,
9:29
Speaker 5: we've got this you know electricity generation system that's eighty
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Speaker 5: five percent renewable, our energy system is only about forty
9:38
Speaker 5: five percent renewable. So we're sitting on why do.
9:40
Speaker 2: We not hear that? Because it's not politically sexy. It's
9:44
Speaker 2: like we're eighty five for ninety. Now we're heading towards
9:46
Speaker 2: ninety five percent renewables or whatever. And yet, as you say,
9:49
Speaker 2: I was thinking, we'll hang on a minute. You know,
9:51
Speaker 2: all our freight moves around the country with trucks burning diesel.
9:54
Speaker 2: That's not just yeah, five percent.
9:56
Speaker 5: Possibly, it's a bit, it's a it's been a harder
9:59
Speaker 5: thing to address. Yeah, i'd say than renewable energy, because
10:02
Speaker 5: we're lucky we've you know, we've got some great assets
10:04
Speaker 5: in New Zealand with hydro and geothermal and now we're
10:09
Speaker 5: building solar farms.
10:10
Speaker 2: Because the message a lot of people engage with this
10:14
Speaker 2: side of the conversation based on I'm going to get
10:17
Speaker 2: solder on my roof or I'm going to get an
10:19
Speaker 2: EV and some people think, well I can't afford an
10:21
Speaker 2: EV or whatever. But the angle that you're getting that
10:26
Speaker 2: this is a question. It's about the opportunity for everyone.
10:29
Speaker 2: Is it as an investment is that what?
10:31
Speaker 4: Yeah?
10:32
Speaker 5: Absolutely?
10:32
Speaker 6: Yeah.
10:33
Speaker 5: I mean you can either as an investor invest in
10:36
Speaker 5: the companies that are either building you know, the solar parks,
10:39
Speaker 5: the obviously the electricity generation companies. If you're looking off shore,
10:44
Speaker 5: there'll be EV car makers battery makers. You know, that's
10:48
Speaker 5: a it's a huge growth story, because it's not just
10:50
Speaker 5: a New Zealand growth story, it's an offshore.
10:52
Speaker 2: How much gold is them? Is there in them? The
10:54
Speaker 2: are hells? Then, metaphorically speaking with electrification, well.
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Speaker 5: I mean even if we just look at New Zealand
11:00
Speaker 5: and the fact that we've got such a long way
11:02
Speaker 5: to go to electrify any everything, if you think about that,
11:05
Speaker 5: if that's the journey we're on, which we believe we are,
11:07
Speaker 5: then you know, we've got quite a lot we've got
11:09
Speaker 5: to get. We've pore, we've got quite a lot of growth.
11:13
Speaker 6: How a hug.
11:14
Speaker 3: I mean, there's been this recent report which highlights by
11:17
Speaker 3: even twenty thirty five, there's probably twenty two billion dollars.
11:20
Speaker 2: Worth of additional who's money.
11:23
Speaker 3: Well, that money comes from not importing eventually a whole
11:27
Speaker 3: lot of offshore energy in terms of fossil fuel, oil, coal, gas.
11:33
Speaker 3: So that's the start of the money that we're going
11:37
Speaker 3: to transfer to ourselves.
11:39
Speaker 2: So if I'm listening to this and think, God, I
11:42
Speaker 2: really this sounds like something I need to be in
11:45
Speaker 2: in on earlier on, I mean, actually, how far through
11:49
Speaker 2: the journey are we if you would look at, you know,
11:52
Speaker 2: a line. How far along the journey are we to
11:55
Speaker 2: getting cracking with this sort of stuff.
11:57
Speaker 5: Yeah, we're pretty well advanced, certainly on the electricity generation
12:02
Speaker 5: side of things. We've got, you know, there's lots of
12:05
Speaker 5: solar being built around the country. We're starting to build
12:10
Speaker 5: battery parks, which will help with the peaking and the
12:14
Speaker 5: you know, the dry year period that you would have
12:16
Speaker 5: heard everyone talk about. So we are well advanced. You know,
12:19
Speaker 5: we've got a long way to go because you with renewable,
12:23
Speaker 5: so you with solar, and one you almost have to
12:25
Speaker 5: overbuild to make sure that you have a really secure,
12:28
Speaker 5: reliable system.
12:30
Speaker 2: The battery parks is so where are we at with that?
12:33
Speaker 2: Because I don't know much about it, but there was
12:36
Speaker 2: talk about us getting a who was looking at bringing
12:38
Speaker 2: our data into here.
12:39
Speaker 3: So that's data grid down in south and that's something else.
12:42
Speaker 3: But I want to I want to bring everyone back
12:44
Speaker 3: to a topic they can't see. But you could describe
12:47
Speaker 3: my hold.
12:48
Speaker 2: Cigarette lighter, but I assume it's a battery.
12:50
Speaker 3: That is a battery and that's the one that classically
12:52
Speaker 3: you would use to charge your phone when your phone
12:54
Speaker 3: goes could put right, So that is thirty four watts
12:57
Speaker 3: worth of storage.
12:58
Speaker 2: Yeah, thirty four wats.
13:00
Speaker 3: So at home, I've got a battery which grabs my
13:03
Speaker 3: solar which which is rather large compared to them. It's
13:10
Speaker 3: six hundred and sixty seven times as much storage.
13:14
Speaker 2: So it's twenty thousand Why, it's basically.
13:16
Speaker 3: Twenty three thousand whit's basically and then right zero and
13:19
Speaker 3: then but imagine, but imagine these at scale grid batteries.
13:23
Speaker 3: Just imagine those, say, two hundred thousand killer what not
13:28
Speaker 3: twenty four killer?
13:29
Speaker 6: What?
13:29
Speaker 3: Two hundred thousand killer?
13:30
Speaker 6: What?
13:31
Speaker 3: That is like more than eight thousand times bigger than
13:34
Speaker 3: my battery at home. So we're now talking about grid
13:40
Speaker 3: scale batteries, not these little ones I'm holding here that
13:43
Speaker 3: we're doing a good job charging my mobile phone. But
13:45
Speaker 3: I'm talking about batteries that will light up over forty
13:49
Speaker 3: thousand homes at dinner time.
13:53
Speaker 2: I don't know what to ask about that because kind
13:55
Speaker 2: of blow were here. We're here, so power that's feeding
13:58
Speaker 2: those batteries.
13:58
Speaker 3: Well, let me just give you another concept. You know,
14:01
Speaker 3: we talk about the straight of hor moves being closed, right.
14:04
Speaker 2: And open and closed and open, okay, closed here.
14:07
Speaker 3: So the straight, the straight of sunshine, wind and batteries
14:10
Speaker 3: are open, so they're going to be open permanently, and
14:14
Speaker 3: they're open at a cost structure that's beginning to look
14:16
Speaker 3: really quite attractive.
14:18
Speaker 2: Is the Strait of hor Move's issue is that creating
14:21
Speaker 2: any particular extra energy in the market and pricing when
14:24
Speaker 2: it comes to investing. I'll ask you, by the way,
14:26
Speaker 2: if any of these questions are dumb, so you can
14:29
Speaker 2: say that's not the smartest question, but I know that question.
14:32
Speaker 2: Like in other words, is there a bit of hysteria
14:34
Speaker 2: around electrical investment right now? And how do you get
14:36
Speaker 2: to make sure you're not just paying because everyone's talking
14:39
Speaker 2: about electricity because the strait's closed?
14:41
Speaker 5: Yeah? Absolutely, Yeah. There are a lot of people, I think,
14:44
Speaker 5: and rightly so going how can I protect myself against
14:47
Speaker 5: the kind of sugar rush of prices with oil and
14:51
Speaker 5: gas that we're seeing at the moment. So we've seen
14:53
Speaker 5: huge uptake in ev inquiry or even registrations in New Zealand,
14:58
Speaker 5: same thing in Australia. I think in Europe it was
15:01
Speaker 5: something like seventy percent up in the first quarter, so
15:06
Speaker 5: post of February when US went into Iran, so all
15:11
Speaker 5: of a sudden, people and I think that's a really
15:13
Speaker 5: important distinction because often with the electrification and renewable energy
15:20
Speaker 5: investment that we've seen today, it's come from government policy
15:24
Speaker 5: or you know, people obviously wanting to do the right
15:26
Speaker 5: thing when it comes to not you know, on the
15:30
Speaker 5: climate side. But now we're seeing you know, individuals, so
15:33
Speaker 5: we're seeing the demand side starting to happen. Where they're going. Actually,
15:37
Speaker 5: I don't want to be subject to those prices anymore.
15:40
Speaker 5: I need to replace my car. What does an EV
15:43
Speaker 5: look like for me? Or you know, can I save
15:46
Speaker 5: on my electricity prices at home? Do I put solar
15:50
Speaker 5: on the roof? And what's you know, how much will
15:52
Speaker 5: a battery cost me?
15:53
Speaker 2: So for investors you want her listening, I think, actually
15:55
Speaker 2: this is a story I want to I want to
15:57
Speaker 2: actually put my money into. I mean, how do they
16:00
Speaker 2: how do they what are the ways that they would participate.
16:02
Speaker 2: I'm guessing that Harbor Acid obviously have funds in particular,
16:06
Speaker 2: but I mean, how would that broadly speaking, they.
16:08
Speaker 5: That I mean, I think Andrew mentioned it before. You know,
16:11
Speaker 5: often it's the you know, a diversified investment fund will
16:14
Speaker 5: have exposure to a lot of these companies that are
16:18
Speaker 5: so the mentioned before, the electricity generators. We've got mining
16:22
Speaker 5: companies that are digging stuff out of the ground that
16:24
Speaker 5: support this.
16:25
Speaker 2: It's funny, that's almost counterintuitive, isn't it what we talk
16:27
Speaker 2: about renewable And they're all to say, we say mining,
16:29
Speaker 2: but of course that's that's where we get this stuff from.
16:32
Speaker 3: Isn't it. You absolutely need copper, you need aluminium. These
16:36
Speaker 3: are the critical minerals that create the New Zealand.
16:38
Speaker 2: Do we know what I mean? Is it funny talking
16:41
Speaker 2: about electrification? Does that involve investing in minds which I
16:44
Speaker 2: can hear Chloe Swarbrick sort of having conniptions about the idea.
16:47
Speaker 3: Well, the reminds and the reminds of course, and where
16:50
Speaker 3: where the reminds to where there's modern slavery going on
16:53
Speaker 3: where we don't want that sort of stuff, and the
16:55
Speaker 3: reminds probably you know, at the limit still involved in
17:00
Speaker 3: fossil fuel coal, which probably is an interesting angle as well.
17:03
Speaker 3: You probably want to avoid that stuff. But if you're
17:05
Speaker 3: mining for copper, this is the scarce resource.
17:08
Speaker 2: Okay, tell you what. We need to take a break
17:11
Speaker 2: and we'll come back. You're welcome to join the conversation
17:13
Speaker 2: where with We're with Sue Walker and Andrew Basqcan from
17:17
Speaker 2: Harbor Asset Management. We're talking about electrification and the opportunity
17:21
Speaker 2: when it comes to we stick your money basically eight
17:24
Speaker 2: hundred and eighty ten and eight. If you've got any
17:26
Speaker 2: questions for them, because I know a lot more about
17:28
Speaker 2: it than I do. Twenty four past five, News Talk
17:31
Speaker 2: said B. News Talk said B. I'm Tim Beveridge and
17:36
Speaker 2: we're with the We've got a two guests from Harbor
17:38
Speaker 2: Asset Management. We're talking about the prospects of well, what's
17:42
Speaker 2: happening with electrification as an investment story, as an economic story,
17:45
Speaker 2: and we're with Andrew Baskand who is a co chief
17:48
Speaker 2: executive officer, and Sue Walker, who's the senior manager for
17:52
Speaker 2: Responsible Investment. I've got a text to go to guys first,
17:55
Speaker 2: because you mentioned batteries and things like that. Somebody Simon
17:59
Speaker 2: has said, funnily enough, having hydro and geothermal isn't down
18:04
Speaker 2: to luck alone. Yes, we had the mountains, rivers and lakes,
18:07
Speaker 2: but planning got us what we have, and our geothermal
18:09
Speaker 2: knowledge is world renowned. Paddocks of deteriorating solar panels. Not
18:14
Speaker 2: so sure who wants to answer that one.
18:17
Speaker 3: Yeah, Like I think this is a good context because
18:19
Speaker 3: there's no doubt that hydro is still the base load
18:22
Speaker 3: for our electricity generation in New Zealand and still and
18:25
Speaker 3: still is recognized hydro is going for sixty sixty percent
18:28
Speaker 3: of our Wow, it's huge, it's really big. And actually
18:31
Speaker 3: we've just provided this reconsenting process for the next three
18:34
Speaker 3: years for one of our largest storage systems like Pukaki
18:37
Speaker 3: you heard of that by mat Cock and so we've
18:40
Speaker 3: just consented the capacity to release something like one and
18:45
Speaker 3: a half to two percent of our total electricity production
18:48
Speaker 3: in one year should we need to, and went to
18:51
Speaker 3: draw down right now. So there's new news on that.
18:54
Speaker 3: I'll talk about that, But let's what are we actually
18:57
Speaker 3: doing today in investment And the call is right in
19:00
Speaker 3: a way because geothermal is still where we're investing a
19:03
Speaker 3: lot of money. About five percent addition to our total
19:08
Speaker 3: city production capacity will be in geothermals and next fight.
19:11
Speaker 2: So geothermal and hydro sort of get grouped together. Yes,
19:14
Speaker 2: what's their share of what they're giving.
19:17
Speaker 3: I haven't exact number video thermal, but it's going to
19:19
Speaker 3: be pushing up to sixty five to seventy percent.
19:21
Speaker 2: Now geothermal, No, no.
19:23
Speaker 3: For edge, sorry, it's about ten ten. But our new
19:28
Speaker 3: investment in based load isn't so much in hydro, it
19:31
Speaker 3: is in geothermal. It's in Tahara. To hook to me here,
19:35
Speaker 3: the big one could Beticano when.
19:38
Speaker 2: That gets all go.
19:39
Speaker 3: These are all central North Island plateo drilling holes.
19:43
Speaker 2: So what are the things that would make investments investors
19:46
Speaker 2: nervous about? It would how much this is relying on weather?
19:50
Speaker 3: I guess, well, well, the geo thermal isn't.
19:53
Speaker 2: And that's the exciting thing.
19:54
Speaker 3: But this is the true base load and the idea
19:56
Speaker 3: of that base load. Of course, it provides support for
20:00
Speaker 3: our investment. This is weird in renewables. So the more
20:04
Speaker 3: base load we do, so the more solar and when
20:07
Speaker 3: we can do.
20:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, absolutely yeah.
20:10
Speaker 2: And I think, oh, sorry, do you interrupt me anytime,
20:13
Speaker 2: because you're the one with the facts, and I'm just
20:15
Speaker 2: you know.
20:18
Speaker 5: I guess I was just going to add, is that
20:20
Speaker 5: it's not a one or two things. It's you know,
20:22
Speaker 5: we need we need a lot of different renewables to
20:25
Speaker 5: build the right energy system. And we've got hydro and
20:29
Speaker 5: sol and wind solar, and when they are all very
20:31
Speaker 5: susceptible to weather, and that's where the batteries come in,
20:34
Speaker 5: so you wouldn't. Yeah, as we've experienced, probably more recently
20:39
Speaker 5: with the dry year, it caused us a few issues
20:41
Speaker 5: with having hydro, so we need other options that can
20:44
Speaker 5: come into the come into the system as well. But
20:47
Speaker 5: they're you know, absolutely right. The planning that's happening with
20:52
Speaker 5: hydro and jeathuma will absolutely help us.
20:56
Speaker 3: And Simon, are you not not in line here? But
20:58
Speaker 3: here's here's another response to your text. It's a good
21:00
Speaker 3: point you make, but don't forget most of our large
21:03
Speaker 3: industrial solar parks are going in on land that isn't
21:07
Speaker 3: necessary really just for sheep. I think Cofi Park at
21:11
Speaker 3: Croatich International Airport will be our largest solar farm.
21:14
Speaker 2: It's a terrific Do New Zealanders actually realize because we
21:17
Speaker 2: see the politicians, we sort of go blah blah blah.
21:19
Speaker 2: I mean, how do we understand I don't think I
21:22
Speaker 2: understand how big our solar investment is already. I mean
21:27
Speaker 2: if I knew everything that you guys know about what
21:30
Speaker 2: we're doing with the electrification, would I sort of go wow?
21:33
Speaker 2: Because it still feels to many people it's oh, you know,
21:36
Speaker 2: oil and gas and diesels is fringe.
21:37
Speaker 3: I think you go, well, in terms of the investment
21:39
Speaker 3: that's actually happening right now, I think you'd go, oh,
21:41
Speaker 3: my goodness that this is an industry you want to
21:44
Speaker 3: be monitoring and thinking about how.
21:46
Speaker 2: You can support it.
21:47
Speaker 3: And there are two problems we're solving here. One is
21:49
Speaker 3: the volatility of wholesale electricity prices gets a whole lot
21:54
Speaker 3: of headlines, but it's not great for business, not great
21:57
Speaker 3: for un employment.
21:57
Speaker 2: We want to.
21:58
Speaker 3: Reduce that volatility of wholesale prices and to the extent
22:01
Speaker 3: we can invest in things that are going to bring
22:03
Speaker 3: down the hostale electricity prices. Here's some news, So can
22:08
Speaker 3: can you have a chat about what's happened in Australia
22:10
Speaker 3: this year?
22:11
Speaker 5: Oh yeah, so it's it's pretty amazing story over there.
22:15
Speaker 5: They have they built something like was it two thousand
22:21
Speaker 5: or so with rooftop solar is a big thing that
22:23
Speaker 5: for them, they've built something like two thousand per day
22:27
Speaker 5: for the last quarter they've implemented roofstop solar. Not all
22:33
Speaker 5: of those have batteries, but a lot.
22:34
Speaker 2: Of individual Australian.
22:35
Speaker 5: Individual Australians, there's a lot of incentives in Australia for
22:39
Speaker 5: them to build those, a lot of incentives for them,
22:42
Speaker 5: for individuals to households to put batteries in. And there
22:46
Speaker 5: is something like is it six hundred thousand?
22:51
Speaker 4: What is it?
22:52
Speaker 5: I'm just trying to lost my Yeah, I've got six
22:55
Speaker 5: hundred thousand home batteries, That's.
22:57
Speaker 2: What it was. I've got a question for you along
22:58
Speaker 2: that line. Somebody says high a solar power system at
23:01
Speaker 2: home would be around thirty thousand dollars. Am I better
23:04
Speaker 2: to invest thirty thousand dollars in solar at home or
23:09
Speaker 2: in an electrification company?
23:11
Speaker 3: Yeah, that's a really good question.
23:13
Speaker 2: I mean that's from many people. They think my way
23:16
Speaker 2: of saying of that paying its way is I'll get
23:19
Speaker 2: solar and you know it'd be great, as you might say, well, and.
23:22
Speaker 3: For a lot of people to have that choice is
23:24
Speaker 3: just a terrific thing. And many people listening won't have
23:27
Speaker 3: that choice. Is you can I invest thirty thousand dollars?
23:29
Speaker 3: Can I invest.
23:32
Speaker 2: In my home?
23:34
Speaker 3: But what you're doing investing in solar at home is
23:38
Speaker 3: very clearly increasing the choices you have in terms of
23:43
Speaker 3: your resilience, of your access to power your time abuse
23:47
Speaker 3: of power, and then maybe making an assessment that this
23:51
Speaker 3: is actually a payback for you because your house has
23:53
Speaker 3: a capacity to have solar on your roof and might
23:56
Speaker 3: be a three to four year payback which has maybe
23:59
Speaker 3: higher higher certainty than investing in a portfolio. So I
24:03
Speaker 3: think there's quite a few things that go into this,
24:05
Speaker 3: but there's no doubt we are well past the tipping point,
24:09
Speaker 3: well past the pivot point for most people investing in
24:14
Speaker 3: solar at home will have a positive payback.
24:17
Speaker 2: Well past that to most. We passed it past.
24:21
Speaker 3: We are in a positive so you.
24:22
Speaker 2: Will have a positive payback if you invest thirty most
24:25
Speaker 2: so if I got solar on my roof, it would
24:27
Speaker 2: end up being a positive financial equation rather than me
24:29
Speaker 2: just feeling.
24:30
Speaker 3: Good and knit knit. Present value positive.
24:33
Speaker 5: Really yeah, I mean I can probably example, we had
24:36
Speaker 5: solar on one of our properties and and a battery.
24:39
Speaker 5: I think our electricity bill for the year was probably
24:43
Speaker 5: around five or six hundred dollars the whole year, for
24:45
Speaker 5: the whole year. So if you're if you're thinking about
24:49
Speaker 5: what you've paid, and you were, so.
24:50
Speaker 2: If you're paying four grand a year, what would the
24:52
Speaker 2: average power I don't know what the average powerball would
24:55
Speaker 2: be most people probably three to four one hundred bucks
24:57
Speaker 2: a month.
24:58
Speaker 5: I would say probably more like two to three hundred
25:01
Speaker 5: people would be paying.
25:02
Speaker 2: And so it's two months and the rest of the
25:03
Speaker 2: year free. And so these are these low energy loans,
25:06
Speaker 2: you know. I mean, that's a different thing we'd have
25:08
Speaker 2: to look at with her.
25:08
Speaker 5: Yeah, but yeah, and once, I just wanted to add
25:11
Speaker 5: one thing on what's coming through Australia with rooftop solo
25:15
Speaker 5: is that it's changing when the peaks happen in their system.
25:20
Speaker 5: It's making peaking cheaper, which is what costs us from
25:24
Speaker 5: an electricity perspective. So individuals having solar on their homes
25:30
Speaker 5: means that the whole system is cheaper for everyone else. Okay,
25:33
Speaker 5: so you kind of benefit.
25:35
Speaker 3: Specifically, in the first quarter, Australian wholesale electricity prices were
25:39
Speaker 3: twelve percent lower in the same quarter a year ago.
25:41
Speaker 3: And this is put down to many publications. There's significant
25:45
Speaker 3: investment not just in rooftop solar, in batteries at home,
25:49
Speaker 3: but in over one hundred utility level battery energy storage systems.
25:55
Speaker 3: They're really gone for it.
25:57
Speaker 2: I've got a caller, we'll go to a chuck ll
25:59
Speaker 2: just ask you to hold on for set, because I've
26:00
Speaker 2: got a question around all this. How much of your
26:04
Speaker 2: investment in this new world of electrification, restorage and all that,
26:09
Speaker 2: how much of it is dependent on what government we've got.
26:12
Speaker 2: And because today we've heard Winston Peters wants to spend
26:15
Speaker 2: a billion dollars looking for new oil and gas and
26:17
Speaker 2: we still need oil and gas. I mean, look how
26:19
Speaker 2: we get our goods around the country. Help me out, Oh,
26:23
Speaker 2: help me out in this one. We're not doing this
26:26
Speaker 2: for climate change. We're doing it because economics have arrived
26:29
Speaker 2: where electrification makes just a lot of sense for many
26:34
Speaker 2: industries and for many households. And that's the whole point.
26:38
Speaker 2: That actually is what you boiled down to it. This
26:40
Speaker 2: is no longer we're doing this because Chloe's my best
26:43
Speaker 2: mate or whatever. We're doing this because investors understand that
26:47
Speaker 2: there is now money to be made because this is
26:49
Speaker 2: the world we're living in. This that's that's the core message.
26:52
Speaker 4: Isn't it.
26:53
Speaker 5: And businesses get to save money because eletricity will become
26:56
Speaker 5: cheaper so they can invest that into the business and
27:00
Speaker 5: other things. Productivity increases, it becomes you know, it's quite
27:03
Speaker 5: a key part of it.
27:04
Speaker 2: But how much does it rely on government? Well, because
27:07
Speaker 2: for instance, in Australia they've got incentive schemes I gather
27:09
Speaker 2: through government or state government whatever for rooftop solar. I mean,
27:13
Speaker 2: how much of that is driven by policies of a
27:16
Speaker 2: government that says we believe this is the future too.
27:18
Speaker 3: We're seeing private companies invest in renewables flat out now.
27:22
Speaker 2: We've seen the instation of.
27:23
Speaker 3: Four big battery energy story systems in New Zealand, tour coming,
27:27
Speaker 3: We've seen a large solar rays put in, and we're
27:30
Speaker 3: seeing a huge amount of investment in your therm will
27:32
Speaker 3: occur across five different web sites. I think we're at
27:36
Speaker 3: the point now of it's just great that we can
27:40
Speaker 3: think about electrification for New Zealand going forward.
27:44
Speaker 5: And I think.
27:47
Speaker 2: Carry out No, it's just gesture into mind. We've got
27:48
Speaker 2: a call on him just checking hill Olti after the
27:50
Speaker 2: break and he will also carry.
27:52
Speaker 5: I'm going to say, I think I think any business
27:55
Speaker 5: will tell you that government policy certainty is really helpful
27:59
Speaker 5: when you're investing in these things. But what Andrew is
28:02
Speaker 5: talking about is.
28:02
Speaker 2: That it doesn't matter in a way because there's enough
28:05
Speaker 2: private sense to this.
28:06
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, absolutely, and yeah, the demand is starting to happen.
28:11
Speaker 3: And sorry, just to finish off, you can imagine that
28:13
Speaker 3: if we do all these things, we will actually preserve
28:16
Speaker 3: for a longer time frame our scarce guest resources, which
28:20
Speaker 3: are quite scarce in museum as it is, so it
28:22
Speaker 3: might by time, it might buy time for the discovery
28:25
Speaker 3: of the next ten years of where our resources are.
28:28
Speaker 3: Because that's what Winston said today isn't going to solve
28:31
Speaker 3: a problem tomorrow the next day. It's a very very
28:33
Speaker 3: long dated.
28:34
Speaker 2: He hopes of election on lack of it is. We're
28:39
Speaker 2: going to be back in just a moment, oh one
28:40
Speaker 2: hund and eighty ten eighty we'll be back with Chuck
28:42
Speaker 2: and who's got a question around Well, we'll find out
28:45
Speaker 2: after the break. It is twenty one and a half
28:47
Speaker 2: minutes to six News talks 'B. Yes, welcome back to
28:51
Speaker 2: News Talks B. This is smart Money. We've got a
28:53
Speaker 2: special smart money really because we have two guests from
28:56
Speaker 2: Harbor Asset Management. Andrew Bascino is the co chief CEO
29:00
Speaker 2: and the co CEO, should I say, and Sue Walker,
29:03
Speaker 2: who's the manager response for a Responsible Investment and we're
29:07
Speaker 2: talking about the the move and the change that's happening
29:10
Speaker 2: towards not just because governments do or don't like it,
29:14
Speaker 2: but the private sector and renewables and electrification and let's
29:20
Speaker 2: take a hem, we'll go a call first. Let's go
29:22
Speaker 2: to Chuck. Thanks for holding check.
29:24
Speaker 4: Hi, Yes, I was going to ask him what they
29:27
Speaker 4: thought about having nuclear power. Of course we'd have to
29:32
Speaker 4: do something about luxon.
29:35
Speaker 2: What do you mean has he ruled it out?
29:37
Speaker 1: Oh?
29:38
Speaker 2: You mean the Yeah, that's right, nuclear free, that's right. Okay,
29:42
Speaker 2: But firstly, before we do check, do you realistically think
29:46
Speaker 2: that nuclear is an option for New Zealand or do
29:48
Speaker 2: you think what do you think?
29:51
Speaker 4: I think it is? It certainly should be considered in
29:56
Speaker 4: cost it out because if the nuclear over in Australia,
30:02
Speaker 4: the labor lot we're saying it was costs far, far,
30:05
Speaker 4: far too much. But how do are they countries managed
30:09
Speaker 4: to use nuclear if it's far more expensive. France is
30:14
Speaker 4: nearly totally nuclear.
30:17
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, Andrew is going to chip in on this one. Andrew,
30:21
Speaker 2: he's just flicking through some bits of paper there.
30:24
Speaker 3: I think this is a really good point check because
30:26
Speaker 3: we know that nuclear provided the backbone of the growth
30:29
Speaker 3: and power in the nineteen seventies, nineteen eighties and some
30:33
Speaker 3: countries the nineteen nineties terrific, and France, of course is
30:38
Speaker 3: that I've been leading European country in that regard. Germany's
30:40
Speaker 3: turned off their nuclear IM not sure that there was
30:42
Speaker 3: a terrific idea, but even in France. In France, what
30:45
Speaker 3: we've seen in the last five years is solar has
30:49
Speaker 3: absolutely taken over from from nuclear in terms of all
30:54
Speaker 3: the new power added, so much so soon I think
30:56
Speaker 3: I'll be right here that on sunny days and summer
30:59
Speaker 3: the price of powers negative now in France. And are
31:01
Speaker 3: right in saying that.
31:02
Speaker 5: It's certainly happening in Europe. I'm not one hundred percent
31:04
Speaker 5: sure about France. But the saying that in Spain woll.
31:07
Speaker 2: Yeah, is that news? Do you chuck that while because
31:10
Speaker 2: people do talk about France. I talked about France and
31:12
Speaker 2: now here we learning that the major investments.
31:15
Speaker 3: So the big thing check is now harnessing that daytime
31:18
Speaker 3: solar with batteries, large industrial grid scale batteries, so you
31:23
Speaker 3: can take the sunshine from the daytime and use that
31:28
Speaker 3: daylight at nighttime. But I am interested in a couple
31:32
Speaker 3: of technologies that probably won't be in my lifetime Wednesday,
31:37
Speaker 3: but I think fusion is seriously something that will be
31:40
Speaker 3: quite intriguing. And New Zealand has its own little company
31:43
Speaker 3: in that regard, looking at that open star. Obviously, there
31:46
Speaker 3: are many many fusion companies now breaking through with their
31:49
Speaker 3: first opportunity. And secondly, in New Zealand, we're one of
31:53
Speaker 3: two or three countries globally that are looking at super
31:57
Speaker 3: critical geothermal. And that's something you should go do Google
32:02
Speaker 3: or copart or chat chat super critical super critical geothermal,
32:08
Speaker 3: and they're probably only three or four places on Earth
32:10
Speaker 3: that have this resource potential. And it's it's it's not
32:16
Speaker 3: nuclear power, but it's damn near close to it. I
32:18
Speaker 3: think we're talking about four thousand degrees of potential energy
32:22
Speaker 3: down there, so we do geo therminal at the moment,
32:24
Speaker 3: I forget that, so it's probably five hundred degrees or
32:27
Speaker 3: something pecipercritical.
32:28
Speaker 2: Right, Chuck. Actually, I've got a question for you won
32:30
Speaker 2: your response to that, but also as an investor, because
32:33
Speaker 2: you're a pragmatic guy. We've spoken for years now, Yeah,
32:37
Speaker 2: and you like to put money where it makes money.
32:40
Speaker 2: Do you what do you what's your response to or
32:43
Speaker 2: thoughts about where you want to stick your dough when
32:44
Speaker 2: it comes to electrification.
32:47
Speaker 4: Well, I've got it with the power companies. But talking
32:53
Speaker 4: about these batteries that hasn't worked too well in Australia.
32:58
Speaker 4: Hasn't it not well at all?
33:00
Speaker 2: What's happened in Australia?
33:03
Speaker 4: Oh, they just they just haven't got this system going,
33:08
Speaker 4: a big battery thing. And what would happen if it
33:12
Speaker 4: ever caught fire?
33:14
Speaker 2: Okay, what do we know about that? I mean, this
33:16
Speaker 2: is a technical question. If you're across that one guys
33:20
Speaker 2: were fire apart.
33:22
Speaker 5: Yeah, yeah, I mean I think there is you know,
33:24
Speaker 5: there are some issues, but they built the battery parks
33:27
Speaker 5: are built in such a way that the on top
33:30
Speaker 5: of that fire pretty quickly, you know, so if what
33:34
Speaker 5: it's not like, the whole park is is going to
33:37
Speaker 5: go up. Yeah, I mean there is fire risk, but
33:41
Speaker 5: they know they're built with a lot of safety measures
33:46
Speaker 5: in mind. And I'm interested in the things aren't going
33:50
Speaker 5: well in Australia for batteries because they think the third
33:54
Speaker 5: country in the world for deploying of batteries and it's
33:57
Speaker 5: definitely having an impact on their electricity prices peaking. You know,
34:03
Speaker 5: it's taking over from gas for peaking. So I wasn't sure,
34:07
Speaker 5: not too sure what part of that that's not going well?
34:10
Speaker 4: Yeah, well yeah, I watched lot.
34:15
Speaker 2: But would you I mean, I guess for you, what
34:18
Speaker 2: what do you want to hear that would make you think?
34:20
Speaker 2: You know, I'm going to shift my portfolio to have
34:23
Speaker 2: a bit more involved in the electrification side of things.
34:27
Speaker 4: I've already got the power companies and that already. But
34:32
Speaker 4: what they should do if you're looking at energy, they
34:37
Speaker 4: should look at what David Seymour thinks, not what Chris looks.
34:42
Speaker 4: And because David Seymour is an electrical engineer, is that
34:46
Speaker 4: before even into parliament?
34:47
Speaker 2: Yeah, okay, no, good, good point. Hey, I hate good
34:50
Speaker 2: to hear from your check. We have to take a
34:52
Speaker 2: break now and we'll be back and just to take
34:53
Speaker 2: for a few more comments. We might be able to
34:55
Speaker 2: actually speak, we might be able to squ squeeze another caller,
34:58
Speaker 2: but we'll see how we go. This is News Talks,
35:01
Speaker 2: he'd be It's twelve minutes to six News Talks. D B.
35:05
Speaker 2: Tim Bevers is Smart Money with Andrew Besk and and
35:08
Speaker 2: so Walker from Harbor Asset Management. It's time for one quick,
35:11
Speaker 2: one more quick call Ben.
35:13
Speaker 6: Hello, you get it? Guys? Yeh, look off his listens
35:17
Speaker 6: till nineteen, just prior to COVID and on the roof.
35:21
Speaker 6: I don't have batteries to sold it, but I absolutely swear,
35:24
Speaker 6: but it's shaved the power and a half. But what
35:29
Speaker 6: I was quit ringing about is the people looking at
35:32
Speaker 6: that plug and solar. The government announced them, and I
35:37
Speaker 6: was looking for it for my mother, who's who's in
35:39
Speaker 6: an apartment. I've been talking to friends in France have it,
35:42
Speaker 6: and they're actually dismantling. Who isn't chucking in the bin
35:45
Speaker 6: because they said the government's just mandated that they have
35:49
Speaker 6: liability insurance and the live bility insurance is one hundred
35:53
Speaker 6: bucks a year more than what the plug and solar
35:56
Speaker 6: was saving them in Arcos. OK, so it's it's completely
36:01
Speaker 6: it's completely destroyed market over there.
36:04
Speaker 2: Yeah, I don't know about what You've got any comment
36:05
Speaker 2: on that?
36:05
Speaker 5: So no, I honestly I didn't know that. I mean,
36:09
Speaker 5: I've been saw that plug and Sola was something that
36:12
Speaker 5: pushing for, which would be great if you're renting or Yeah,
36:16
Speaker 5: obviously apartments is a good use. But no, I didn't
36:18
Speaker 5: know about that, okay, my ability insurance. It sounds like
36:21
Speaker 5: there's maybe some more improvement needed in technology there.
36:25
Speaker 2: Yeah before it. Hey, thanks for you, Court Ben. Sorry
36:27
Speaker 2: we are running short of time. I'll just quickly respond
36:29
Speaker 2: to one text. Somebody said, Tim, yet again, you just
36:31
Speaker 2: cut your expert off as he was explaining the four
36:33
Speaker 2: thousand degrees to your thermal thing, which was fascinating. When
36:35
Speaker 2: I didn't cut him off, he Andrew actually suggested that
36:38
Speaker 2: we should chat GPT and you should look it up
36:41
Speaker 2: and google it. What what's it called?
36:44
Speaker 5: Critical supercritical Geo Thermal.
36:46
Speaker 2: Yeah, so he was. I think you passed that to
36:49
Speaker 2: me and told me to go and chat GPT.
36:51
Speaker 3: It didn't you, Andrew, And you might get a research
36:54
Speaker 3: article published by Sue a little while ago and ZEPO Critical.
36:57
Speaker 3: She's a pretty good and expert in house on it.
36:59
Speaker 2: Yeah, it's fast. Look, I just stuck it into chat GPT.
37:02
Speaker 2: And even the facts that are unfurling what Iceland, Japan,
37:06
Speaker 2: Italy and New Zealand, which which is can one of
37:08
Speaker 2: the world's best prospects because of high temperature to your
37:11
Speaker 2: thermal fields around the Central North Island exciting, which leads
37:14
Speaker 2: to the question of all this in the whole scheme
37:18
Speaker 2: of things when it comes to investment, renewables, batteries, solar electrification,
37:23
Speaker 2: the whole shebang. If people are listening to this and
37:25
Speaker 2: they think, I don't want to get caught up in
37:27
Speaker 2: the hysteria that's coming out of people going the straits
37:30
Speaker 2: of all moves and all that sort of thing, How
37:32
Speaker 2: do people access investments into this without feeling that they're
37:37
Speaker 2: falling for the hype that people fall for for SpaceX.
37:40
Speaker 2: So how do you invest in our whole discussion and
37:42
Speaker 2: go I want to stick some money into this, Where
37:44
Speaker 2: do I go?
37:45
Speaker 3: Look, there's lots of global disruptive change. You know, we've
37:48
Speaker 3: seen that obviously with AI. We've seen that earlier on
37:51
Speaker 3: with these GLP one drugs that we've talked about. Electrification
37:55
Speaker 3: has been like something going on for one hundred and
37:57
Speaker 3: fifty years or at the point now where the economics
38:00
Speaker 3: of electrification have continued to push very hard on renewables
38:05
Speaker 3: on batteries. And that's what Sue and I a saying
38:08
Speaker 3: that whole chain of disruptive opportunity and electrification, it's not
38:14
Speaker 3: about one point of investment. And that's why we think
38:19
Speaker 3: as investors we need to understand whether it's the mining
38:24
Speaker 3: company that's producing the copper, whether it's the grid manufacturer
38:29
Speaker 3: who's installing that copper in the aluminium, where it's the
38:32
Speaker 3: transformers at this end, right through to the clever innovation
38:36
Speaker 3: in geothermal that's occurring in wind and solar. The whole
38:41
Speaker 3: chain is very investible. Because my view would be don't
38:45
Speaker 3: try and pick a winner. Yes, that would be my view.
38:48
Speaker 3: Don't try and pick a winder. The whole chain is
38:50
Speaker 3: likely to be very investible.
38:51
Speaker 2: The reason I mentioned it is because you're not here
38:54
Speaker 2: selling anything for harbor asset management. You're not talking about
38:57
Speaker 2: a fund you've got. You're simply talking about the whole
39:00
Speaker 2: what's what we see happening. But you did what I
39:02
Speaker 2: had to chat with you in the break. There are
39:04
Speaker 2: there funds that actually do a good job of focusing
39:07
Speaker 2: on this sort of investment, is my question. In terms
39:10
Speaker 2: of the bigger picture.
39:11
Speaker 3: Look, as soon as you invest in the New Zealand
39:12
Speaker 3: an equity market or the New Zealand bond market, you've
39:14
Speaker 3: got a lot of great companies, well managed that are
39:18
Speaker 3: continuing to produce good profits and investing new Zealand's got
39:21
Speaker 3: good companies, but globally there are infrastructure funds that are
39:26
Speaker 3: worthwhile having a good look at it. That's the only
39:28
Speaker 3: thing you want to invest in.
39:29
Speaker 2: But I'd be aware. I'll go right back to that initial.
39:31
Speaker 3: Comment that we had regarding SpaceX that went off. You know,
39:35
Speaker 3: if you really want to think about investing and one
39:37
Speaker 3: particular piece of kit or technology, it's not a one day,
39:40
Speaker 3: two day, one month, one quarter, one year investment. It
39:43
Speaker 3: is a very long term investment.
39:45
Speaker 2: Okay, yeah, I just because I know that the New
39:49
Speaker 2: Zealand things like I want to put some money in this.
39:51
Speaker 2: I've got ten thousand bucks. Weird do I put it
39:52
Speaker 2: or something? But you would be giving the less exciting
39:56
Speaker 2: answer of like, look, talk to you, I don't know,
40:00
Speaker 2: look at your key, we saber what they are doing.
40:01
Speaker 2: Trust the broader picture of things.
40:03
Speaker 3: And I'd go back and have a look at this
40:05
Speaker 3: as well. Is it suitable in my own house. I
40:09
Speaker 3: could look and think about my electrification and it can
40:12
Speaker 3: start small. That motormard you need to replace it with
40:15
Speaker 3: another combustion engine. I could just be a new check one, right,
40:18
Speaker 3: be sensible. I'm sorry, that is an investment.
40:21
Speaker 2: Yeah, Okay, hey, look we barely scratched the tip of
40:24
Speaker 2: the iceberg where the calls rolling into the end, and
40:25
Speaker 2: of course I have to say sorry, times up. You
40:27
Speaker 2: need to be earlier, Andrew soon, Thanks so much for
40:30
Speaker 2: coming in.
40:31
Speaker 5: Thank you.
40:32
Speaker 2: Enjoy the rest of the evening thanks to my producer Lock.
40:34
Speaker 2: If you've missed any of this conversation, I suggest you
40:37
Speaker 2: can check out our podcast what Should be Up in
40:40
Speaker 2: a few minutes basically for the whole show, go and
40:42
Speaker 2: listen to it all again. Some fantastic stuff on there,
40:44
Speaker 2: and we'll look forward to your company next weekend. Catch
40:49
Speaker 2: you soon.
40:59
Speaker 1: For more from News Talks ed B. Listen live on
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