Latest / Chef's PSA Podcast / Rogelio Garcia: Cookbooks, Michelin, Mexican Food and MMA | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 122

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Rogelio Garcia: Cookbooks, Michelin, Mexican Food and MMA | Chef's PSA Podcast Ep. 122 · Chef's PSA Podcast

0:00
Hello chefs, This is Chef's QSA podcast.
0:02
I'm your host, Andre Natera. On today's episode, I have Chef
0:05
Rogelio Garcia from the Michelin star to Oro restaurant inside
0:08
The Four Seasons in Napa Valley. He's been nominated by the James
0:12
Beard Foundation, he's been on Top Chef, He's been the chef of
0:15
several Michelin star restaurants, and he just
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published his first book, Con Vivid.
0:20
We get into all of that. This is a really great
0:22
conversation and he's an amazing chef.
0:24
I enjoyed my time with him very much and I hope you enjoy this
0:27
conversation. Hey everyone, a quick thanks to
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0:43
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Or go to mesfootwear.com and follow them on their Instagram
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page at MES Footwear. Chef, good seeing you, man.
1:11
But before we even get started, I need to congratulate you.
1:13
I know you just wrote a book. I'm I'm excited that you brought
1:15
it. It's beautiful.
1:17
And then, you know, I know you just got nominated with James
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Beard. You got the Michelin star.
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You've been on Top Chef, your career is going like this.
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Congratulations on all the success.
1:25
I mean, how did this even get started, Chef?
1:28
Man, well, first of all, thank you for having me.
1:30
It's a, it's definitely a beautiful day here in in Austin
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and it's, it's incredible to be here.
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And, you know, it's been a lot of support in, in, in this, in
1:39
this city. I remember the first time I, I
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came here was exactly 10 years ago.
1:43
Really. Yeah, I have AI, have AI, have a
1:45
friend who owned 2 restaurants and he invited me over and he
1:50
kind of showed me around. And, you know, it was the first
1:54
time that I ever, ever came to Austin.
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The second time that I, I mean, I'm sorry to Texas.
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The second time was last week. And now I'm back for the third
2:01
time in in less than, you know, two weeks.
2:03
So you're just down here promoting the book?
2:04
Write the book. Just, you know, sightseeing,
2:07
saying hi to friends, coming to see you, all that good stuff.
2:10
So I want to ask you, because part of your story, you're with
2:14
the book, you have a very interesting story, unique,
2:16
unique to what motivated you to write the book.
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So for people that don't know, can you give a little bit of a
2:21
background on that? Yeah.
2:23
So I was born in Mexico City and then I grew up in, did a stint
2:27
in Los Angeles. So my mother came when I was two
2:31
years old with my sister and then we spend about 1010 to 12
2:36
years in LA. By the time I was 15, we moved
2:39
to Northern California. I had aunts and uncles that
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lived in in Napa Valley and they would always tell my mother,
2:45
hey, bring your family. It's a beautiful place.
2:47
Get out of Los Angeles was the 90s, right?
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Rodney King riots, I mean all the stuff that was happening,
2:53
like big hip hop influence, like Snoop Dogg was just getting
2:55
started. I mean all the you know, I mean
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you, you, you know, right. I know, I know.
2:59
And so it was it was a big they they call it the golden years in
3:03
in Los Angeles, right, right. A lot of great music.
3:06
And so I remember. The movie colours.
3:08
Colours, Yeah, yeah, I mean boys in the hood, I mean, you name
3:12
it. And so it was hard not to, you
3:17
know, be in in that world and be influenced by that world.
3:21
Not that I ever got into trouble or anything like that, but I, I,
3:25
I did always feel like I didn't fit in, you know.
3:29
And so my mother decided to move us to Northern California.
3:34
It was a huge move. She's been a, a nurse for ever
3:38
since we got to the state, since she still is.
3:40
We made it to to Northern California and how?
3:43
Old are you at this time? 15 So I, I halfway through high
3:46
school, so you could imagine, you know, from kindergarten all
3:49
the way through 10th grade friends, you know, that I've
3:53
seen and restart in, in Napa, right?
3:56
Like a beautiful. But at the time it was a hard
3:59
adjustment. It was super difficult to adjust
4:02
to a different part. I mean, I might as well be in a
4:04
different country for the first couple months in high school, I
4:09
was, you know, a bit of a loner. I was trying to get friends,
4:11
things like that. And I think that's what drove me
4:12
into cooking. So I was like, you know what,
4:15
I'm just, I want to help my mother to, you know, pay rent,
4:19
bills, whatever. I want to get a, a job.
4:21
So I push hard for that. And, and that's how it kind of
4:24
all began dishwasher, massive resort.
4:28
It was almost like 2 resorts in one doing banquets of, you know,
4:31
1000 guests. This.
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Is in Napa. This is in the heart of
4:34
Yountville. That was the that was the like
4:36
the one of the big, it's the one of the biggest resorts in Napa
4:38
Valley. It was Bellagio and Inspa.
4:41
Bellagio. Yeah, beautiful also.
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Beautiful and so when I, when I, when I started, man, I, I, I
4:48
was, I was getting crushed like I had, I mean, you can imagine
4:51
banquets of 405 hundred 1000 and I was me and two other guys just
4:56
washing dishes. So I would go to high school,
4:58
you know, rush to I remember the, the, the, the bell rang at
5:03
3:30 and I had 30 minutes to get from Napa to Yountville, put my
5:07
coat on the checkered pants. I know you are the checkered
5:09
pants. Which, by the way, I should say,
5:12
they always could spot a culinary student when they're on
5:14
the bus with the checkered pants, the hat.
5:16
They're still. On the hat, they're still on the
5:19
bus. I've always been a kind of
5:20
hesitant of going out like that in the world, you know, like,
5:23
like to, to, I don't know, I just, I've always kind of taken
5:25
my, you know, taking them off. But I rushed to get 4:00 and
5:32
then it was it was, it was, you know, a go from there.
5:36
I can get out till midnight one O clock.
5:38
And so, you know, it, it taught me discipline.
5:41
It taught me teamwork. It gave me a little bit of a
5:44
purpose as I was trying to find myself in a new stage of my
5:49
life, you know, high school years, right?
5:51
Difficult already trying to figure out what I'm going to do
5:53
after high school. Finally got a job making a
5:56
little bit of money, you know, helping my mother pay rent.
5:59
I think what was the most astonishing thing was the, the,
6:02
the, the actual hard work that it takes, you know, and, and,
6:06
and I, I just, I loved it. I I love that feeling of getting
6:09
a paycheck at the end and that I that you worked so hard to get.
6:13
You remember what you were making back then.
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Man, it had to be like $758 an hour.
6:17
Yeah, like and, and and, but it was, it was I might as well be a
6:21
millionaire, man. Like my first paycheck, it was
6:24
like, I mean, I don't know, $200.
6:25
I was like, wow, this is, you know, so I can afford that.
6:29
The, the expensive lunch box, you know, in high school and,
6:32
and, and, and, and the good, you know, like I didn't have to line
6:34
up and get the, the, the lunch that they get.
6:37
You know, everybody gets. You can actually go to 'cause
6:39
they would bring vendors in my high school.
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So you would have like Pizza Hut there.
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You would have, you know, local restaurants and they would come
6:45
and sell. So if the only, the only kids
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that had money, you know, or the ones that are lining up.
6:50
So I was, yes, I'm, I'm moving up.
6:52
I probably, I can, I can afford a, a Subway sandwich and you
6:56
know, and not line up for, for the, for the food and the
6:58
cafeteria, but it was, it was good.
7:01
And so I think he's watching the artistry of, of the kitchen.
7:06
The camaraderie is what really brought me to take it on full
7:10
blast. And so I, I actually took acting
7:13
classes in high school and I wanted to do that after high
7:18
school. I remember talking to my, my
7:19
young brother and saying, Hey, I, I must have been like in, in
7:22
a junior. I mean, I was like, I kind of
7:23
want to do this. Like I kind of want to get an
7:25
agent. I, I, I, I want to do this and I
7:28
want to kind of apply for, you know, whatever the shows like
7:34
whatever, whatever it is and, and see if I can do that.
7:37
I, I don't think I was that great because my, my, you know,
7:42
the, the, the, the classes I was taking, there was guys that were
7:44
incredibly talented. I mean singing, dancing, just
7:49
the, the, the whole, a theatrical and the talented
7:54
they, these guys had. I was definitely not that, but I
7:56
was like getting inspired and be like, maybe maybe I can do that.
7:59
You know, maybe maybe this is something.
8:00
But I think when I got into into like maybe my first full year
8:05
in, in in a restaurant is when I was like, this is what I want to
8:08
do. I, I I've always loved food.
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My mother's an amazing cook. My grandmother, you know, I
8:14
didn't spend a lot of time with her, but I did spend a, a full
8:16
summer and tasting her food. I can see what how my mother, I
8:22
was able to take those recipes and that influence and become an
8:25
amazing cook. And I loved eating all the time
8:30
as a kid, and it just made sense, you know, Did.
8:34
You go to culinary. School.
8:35
I didn't. No, I didn't so.
8:36
You just started working and just.
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Working your way up. I did I tried to go.
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I tried to go. I just.
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I couldn't It was too much money, man.
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It was it was expensive. I.
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It's interesting that you bring that up because a lot of a lot
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of the questions that I get is like, should you go to culinary
8:48
school? You know, do you have?
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And I tell people it's like, you don't have to.
8:52
Yeah, you can still be a very like some of the most successful
8:54
chefs didn't go to culinary school and some other ones that
8:56
are successful did, right? So it's it's more about what you
8:58
got in here. In your heart, Yeah, Yeah.
9:00
Yeah, yeah, yeah. I think that makes the
9:02
difference. And clearly also for people
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listening, there's your answer. Yeah.
9:06
Well, you know, I, I, I think if I would have, if I would have
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had the money and obviously I, I wanted to do it, I think I would
9:13
have gone. I think there's definitely a lot
9:16
of advantages to, to going connections, friends, you know,
9:22
you're an alumni at the end of the day, there's a, you know,
9:24
there's a lot of other stuff that I, I didn't, you know, I, I
9:29
wanted to do it because I wanted it.
9:32
You know, I don't, I don't come from a, a generation of a
9:34
restaurant tours or, you know, so I could have learned things
9:37
quicker and faster. And I think when you put both,
9:40
both worlds and, and in the same place, like you have the grit
9:43
and the passion and, and the dedication and the hard work and
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you go to culinary school, it's, it's a match made in heaven.
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So I have a question. Yeah.
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What around what year is this? So this is so we came in 2002.
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Yeah. So I graduated 2004.
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So you're working in serious kitchens in 2004?
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I want to say right after high school, yeah, yeah, yeah.
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I mean, I, I, I, I think every kitchen in Napa Valley, just
10:08
because of the amount of competition at minimum, you
10:11
know, it's, I mean, they're all serious kitchens that I would
10:13
say no matter what, what level. I mean, it's everybody's like
10:18
pushing for for those guests and, and, and 1:00 and.
10:21
Being good is normal is normal. Yeah, normal.
10:24
And I agree with you. I spent some time I actually
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talking about culinary school. I went to I've I've overdone it
10:29
like I've gone to culinary school online culinary school
10:32
and taking courses at every CIA, your audible, you know,
10:35
Calistoga, not Calistoga, say Helena, say Helena, San Antonio.
10:40
Like I've I've done all the CIA. Yeah, yeah, yeah, I've done, you
10:43
know, all. And I'm big into education.
10:45
Yeah, I, I, I geek out on it, but I probably over educated
10:49
myself. Yeah, right.
10:50
Anyway, but what I was going to ask you is when you were coming
10:52
up in kitchen. So you're the guy in the
10:54
kitchen, right? You don't have culinary school,
10:56
but I'm assuming everyone else in those kitchens probably did.
10:59
Did how? How was that for you back then?
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It was intimidating. I mean, even, I mean even the
11:04
basic things I didn't even know. I didn't know what a 6th pan
11:06
was. I didn't know what a, a court,
11:08
you know, like a, a 9th pan was a hotel pan.
11:11
I remember that my mother used to make these, you know,
11:17
fillets, like she, she would get fish and, and, and she would
11:20
kind of fillets, you know, like a filet of fish pretty much
11:23
right. So we would, we would eat that
11:24
as as kids and remember the chef asked me, Hey, can you go get
11:29
the fillets from the walk in? And so I walk in the in the walk
11:31
in and, and I'm looking for fish, like I'm looking for fish
11:34
in the speed rack. I'm like, I go back and he's
11:36
like, no fillets like filet mignon.
11:38
It's a, it's a, it's a meat, things like that, right?
11:41
Like lemons and limes, like in my, in my house, like Le Monde.
11:45
It's, it's the yellow one. It's the yellow one, it's the
11:48
green one. So the bait, like when I tell
11:51
you, no training, it was like, no, no training.
11:54
Like really nothing. We don't, we don't, my mother is
11:58
a nurse, like I said, and we don't, we don't have, we don't,
12:02
we didn't have that, that kitchen language and that lingo
12:06
to, to kind of move myself throughout.
12:07
But it was, it took me a while to, to get used to it.
12:11
I would write things down. I would, you know, kind of like
12:14
you go to YouTube and watch videos and try to educate myself
12:17
by cookbooks, ask questions, you know, find out who was the, you
12:22
know, somebody that, you know, I, I would feel comfortable in,
12:25
in those kitchens and kind of get advice.
12:27
Maybe they're a little bit more advanced, more experienced and,
12:30
and kind of get answers through there, but I think there's not
12:33
one source. It's just think all that
12:34
together is what I think inspired me and and and brought
12:37
me forward step by step. Do you do you think and I'll and
12:41
I'll share this with you. When I was like around the same
12:45
time, 2004, I'm also kind of in the Napa Valley area and I
12:50
remember going to the farmers market and just I was coming
12:54
from Texas and then going to Napa.
12:56
And for people that had baby you didn't know.
12:59
But back then, I also think there was a bigger quality
13:02
difference. I think it's closed in a little
13:04
bit, but back then it was a big quality difference between the
13:06
produce in Texas versus the, the produce of the farmers market in
13:09
Napa or wherever. And I just remember wandering
13:12
around like, man, the food here is so good.
13:14
And it really changed my perspective on, you know,
13:17
letting ingredients shine and all that.
13:19
So what I'm going to ask you next is did you ever feel like
13:25
you had an advantage because of the resources and, you know, the
13:29
abundant produce and the, and the access to higher quality
13:34
ingredients and all the artists and farmers when you started,
13:37
you know, branching out onto your own?
13:39
Yeah, I mean, for sure, I think when you start with something
13:42
that's excellent and great, it's it's it's a huge advantage.
13:46
And I don't know if I would have been asked inspired, maybe if I
13:51
would have grown up somewhere else.
13:53
They didn't have those ingredients possibly.
13:55
But it's, I think that's why in as I continue to mature as a
14:01
chef and, you know, I really want to highlight the farmers
14:04
and, and give them the credit that they deserve.
14:07
I mean, I just went to a farmer's market yesterday in
14:10
Calistoga and you know, they're, they're I.
14:14
Used to live in Oh, you did. There was like a, there was like
14:16
a a Days Inn or something like. That Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah,
14:20
yeah, it's right there. I used.
14:20
To stay when I would go to CIA. Yeah, and, and there's this
14:25
Hispanic woman that is selling her produce, right?
14:27
So I'll go up to her and we're speaking in Spanish in the first
14:30
conversation. You know, the first question I
14:31
asked her is like, you know, where you coming from?
14:34
And, you know, she tells where she's coming from, you know,
14:36
maybe 50 miles away. And I and then I say, well, how
14:39
do you tell me the process, right?
14:40
I love asking these guys like, how's the day look?
14:43
Wakes up at 3:00 in the morning, packs all the stuff needs to be
14:46
out by, you know, 5530 drives. Has to drive 3 hours to be in
14:51
Calistoga by 8 because that's when it opens and is there till
14:57
1. So that farmer close that one
14:58
and she's got to go back and do it all over again.
15:01
That's something interesting because I don't think a lot of
15:03
chefs realize that the farmers are taking it just as serious as
15:06
the chefs. Are.
15:06
Oh yeah, man, for sure. It's not sometimes more serious.
15:08
Yeah, right. I know and, and, and I think
15:11
that I, I, you know, I wish I can support everybody.
15:14
I mean, that amount of purveyors that we get for earning tomatoes
15:17
and figs and truffles and cheese and like, you know, you get 6.
15:20
I mean, there's just so much and all these guys are trying to get
15:25
in with every chef in there and you just can't buy from
15:28
everybody, you know, And I wish I could, but and I wish I can
15:31
support them because I know that based on, you know, my
15:34
experience and growing up there and, you know, some of these
15:37
farmers have become best friends and we had dinner together and,
15:41
you know, I know their family. They know, you know, my family
15:44
and it's just, it's, it's, I wish I can help them more, but
15:48
but you know, everybody's limited and but I, I think it's,
15:53
it's a, it's a, it's an art for sure.
15:55
And I don't think they get enough credit.
15:56
Yeah. I think all the chefs, we, we
15:58
get all the hype and glory. But it we couldn't be who we are
16:01
if we didn't have these guys that are as dedicated as we are.
16:04
No, I think you bring up a good point.
16:05
I want to ask you about the book, though.
16:06
Yeah, because it's beautiful and I've been seeing it everywhere.
16:08
You're on this. I don't want to say you're on a
16:11
book tour, but I've seen your book everywhere.
16:13
How did this come to be? And then I also want to kind of
16:16
dive deep into what is the process look like for people
16:19
listening to Write your Own cookbook?
16:22
So it came to be when I was doing a dinner, a DACA dinner in
16:28
2017. What?
16:29
What is DACA for people that don't know?
16:31
Deferred action so basically Barack Obama passed a law where
16:36
if you came without your consent to the United States, for
16:39
example, your parents, you're able to get workers permit,
16:43
Social Security number, all that kind of stuff.
16:45
It's, it's a visa pretty much similar to a visa.
16:47
And so you don't get full citizenship, but you're able to
16:53
cohesiks and you, you know, and so that, that definitely helped
16:58
me out a ton 'cause it, if I would have had that in high
17:02
school, then I think I would have been able to go to culinary
17:04
school and do all the stuff, but got it in my early 20s And you
17:08
know, there's a ton of requirements to, to get.
17:10
And so I was doing a dinner in 2017 with my actually my Co
17:16
writer Andrea lost in grey and we were trying to raise money
17:22
'cause they were closing the applications.
17:25
So we did a dinner and we were able to kind of raise, you know,
17:29
$10,000. And we kind of gave those to,
17:33
you know, applicants that wanted to, you know, they had, couldn't
17:36
afford the application and the, and the fees and stuff like
17:38
that. So that's how I connected with
17:40
her. And then we, we were, you know,
17:43
some, you know, life happened and then we reconnected during
17:48
the pandemic and we kind of decided to write a cookbook.
17:54
I was already full blast on Mexican cuisine and what I was
17:57
kind of learning and, and doing a lot of research because I, I
18:02
was raised in Northern California.
18:04
I think a lot of my start has been more towards Europe, you
18:07
know, French and, and Spanish and Italy and things like that.
18:10
And so I feel like I kind of neglected Mexico and my roots.
18:15
And with her, we revisited it and we came up with this plan of
18:20
writing a book. And so that's how, you know,
18:22
with, with the pandemic happening.
18:24
And you know, I think that I think it became the spirit of,
18:28
of, of all the challenges that has been happening in the in the
18:32
industry. And I wanted to highlight, first
18:35
of all, Napa Valley, the ingredients couple wineries and
18:39
vintners. Even if I don't highlight
18:41
everybody, you know, a lot of the wineries have supported my
18:44
career throughout. And so, and also the, the, the,
18:49
the people that are, you know, in wineries and in restaurants,
18:54
you know, that are doing that work.
18:58
And so the, the book was born. You know, the recipes are, are
19:03
rustic. You know, they're casual.
19:04
They're meant to be picked up on Sunday night and cooked out of
19:09
there. This, this book is for
19:12
everybody. So it's not, it's not just
19:14
sometimes we chefs write books just for chefs.
19:16
Yeah, and sometimes they. Write for for home cooks.
19:18
Sometimes it's kind of for everybody.
19:19
Exactly. And I think that's, I think the
19:22
the stories are compelling. You know, I mean things that I
19:24
went through and, and, and things that I kind of experience
19:27
and giving thanks and, and just being grateful.
19:30
I think that's the biggest thing.
19:31
What is? What is your process for writing
19:33
look like? So walk me through like, how
19:37
many times do you got to iterate the dish?
19:39
How do you document the recipes? How do you photograph it?
19:41
Like what? What does that look like for
19:42
someone that says I want to write a cookbook?
19:44
Well, first of all, it's, it's, it's pitching what you want to
19:47
write it about, you know, like what is it going to be and how
19:50
is it going to be kind of broken down?
19:51
So having that idea really ironed out and then having
19:56
somebody, you know, we're chefs, right?
19:57
So I I you know the things that I was learning like an index
20:01
and. You know, the, the, the font and
20:04
the, the, the, the paper, all the cut.
20:06
Is it going to be hardcover, softcover, like all that stuff,
20:09
all that stuff that you would never even think about.
20:12
You started like to think about. And then once you have some sort
20:17
of that concrete idea, right? And it, it just needs to be an
20:19
idea and but it has to be very ironed out.
20:22
And then you hopefully I already have a, a writer, right, Because
20:27
they can, they can help you navigate through all that, all
20:29
that, all that stuff. And then what I did is we, we
20:32
look for an agent. So somebody that represented us.
20:34
So they got to believe in our project and what we're doing.
20:37
And we found one, but it took us a year, you know, because you
20:42
haven't wrote a book in the past, because you haven't have
20:44
credentials, all that stuff. You know, it kind of it, it, it
20:47
puts you all the way in the back.
20:49
So you got to start somewhere, right?
20:50
So that's what I always tell, tell myself every morning, we
20:53
got to start somewhere. There was going to be somebody.
20:55
It's going to be something. Finally, we get somebody, we
20:56
sign with somebody after a year and, and she takes what we
21:03
wrote, right? It's not chicken scratch, but
21:05
it's not like super, super tight.
21:07
And she takes it and puts it in this format.
21:10
And that's the first time that I remember that I was thinking,
21:12
wow, this is like, this is this might be real, like this is
21:14
might be happening, right? We're not, we're not all the way
21:16
at the finish line, but this, this project might be coming to
21:21
life. And so because the stat, her
21:24
stat was there, like everything was reorganized.
21:28
I was like, wow, this is incredible.
21:31
Then we go at it, you know, we start to do insert more recipes,
21:35
more stories, more, more, more. And now our next goal was to get
21:41
a publisher, right? So we worked for another year.
21:45
So my contract with her was for a full year.
21:46
And if we don't get published and either we re sign if
21:50
everybody agrees or we just drop the project.
21:52
So literally to the last week, we were like, I don't know if
21:56
it's going to happen, like, you know, you get denied, denied,
22:00
denied, denied. And so there's a, you know, we
22:05
we get an offer and and I was like losing my mind.
22:09
I was like, no way, like seriously.
22:10
And so to the we were, I was already thinking like, this is
22:13
not going to work. We put so much hours and work
22:16
and, and, and late nights and talking to, you know, my writer
22:19
like two or three in the morning about ideas and recipes and
22:24
stuff like that. And once we sign with the
22:25
publisher, then, then we then, then it becomes real.
22:28
Then they take it and, and insert their format and then it
22:35
becomes real. Then it becomes more, more
22:37
exciting and, and then we start to put in some more recipes,
22:42
things like that. So then it's the next two years
22:44
going to work on on photography and and recipe development and
22:50
recipe. Text This is almost a three-year
22:51
project. It's four years, four years,
22:53
four years from the idea to now that it's obviously released
22:57
last year, so. I want to ask you about the
22:58
recipe R&D. So I'm assuming you're booking
23:01
photo shoots, They're coming in, they're they're taking photos
23:04
and then and then you're like, OK, yes, no, yes, no.
23:06
Which ones are going to go on the book?
23:08
And then for recipe development, I mean, do you have, is it just
23:12
you working on every recipe, weighing everything out to the
23:15
gram and making sure it's exact or do you you have a team?
23:18
Well, we had a, we had a A-Team, you know, we had a team for the
23:22
initial recipe ideas. It was, it was me.
23:25
And, and then I would, you know, consult with my writer.
23:30
So we would, you know, we would be on the same page.
23:32
And I think when you have somebody that's so you know,
23:37
things just like you and what's the same goal, it's just it's
23:39
much cleaner and and easier and and so super inspiring.
23:44
But the initial like recipe testing, there there is a recipe
23:47
tester you know so it was so I would do it once does.
23:50
This person work for you like. No, this is somebody that you,
23:52
you send it to and then they, they, you know, and then you
23:58
have to convert it, right? So for me, all my recipes are in
24:00
grams, right? And then I have to convert them
24:02
into teaspoons and cups. So that's that's, and then
24:05
there's a lot of back and forth and maybe, you know, there's a
24:08
misunderstanding or there's, you know, so then you have to
24:10
there's a bunch of emails for one recipe.
24:12
And so you know, I mean, you could imagine the the amount of
24:15
time and and that it takes, but. And then when, when they and
24:18
then they send you, I'm assuming like the final document in ebook
24:22
or something that you look through?
24:23
Right, that was that. Well, they send they send me the
24:27
when we it was all words before the photographer there was like
24:32
mock pictures you just take off the Internet just to so that was
24:34
that was nice. That was, that was, that was,
24:36
that was very inspiring too. But when you actually are doing
24:39
the photography, then you have the words and then you have the
24:42
photography and then it's fine together.
24:44
And they send it on, on like APDF and, and they finally send
24:47
you that. Yeah, I was blown away.
24:50
I was I I think they were blown away too, because originally the
24:54
book was supposed to be smaller. Yeah, by the way, the cover's
24:56
beautiful. I love, I love, I love this
24:58
photo with the with the, you know, the crack plate.
25:00
Thank you. That's gorgeous.
25:01
Thank you. And it's got the, it's got a
25:02
little bit of the like the Mexican flag.
25:04
So I don't know if people could see that.
25:06
Yeah, right there. Yeah, here we go.
25:08
That's beautiful. Look at that as the fancy chef
25:11
2000. The beautiful and nice.
25:13
Beautiful and nice. Look at the chef.
25:15
I I, I want to highlight NBC. So NBC is, is a local ceramicist
25:19
in Napa Valley. She does, you know, Nikki and
25:25
Will did a lot of the ceramicist for the you know, French Laundry
25:29
and and Four Seasons and just a lot of Mission star restaurants,
25:32
but very down to earth, very talented and I use mostly other,
25:39
you know, ceramicist for the for the book.
25:41
So when you when you use. That also in the restaurant.
25:43
I do, yeah, yeah, yeah. Not, not all of it, but I love
25:46
her, her take on on in her projects.
25:48
And the the beautiful thing is when you have somebody so close
25:51
and and also super talented, you can make whatever you want in
25:55
shape, size, you name it, you know?
25:58
How much of the book the the items in the book are on the
26:02
menu now? Well, this book is a little bit
26:06
more casual than than than Oro Oro is, is, is is a tasting menu
26:11
and it's it is hints of Mexico wine country, tiny bit of
26:16
Japanese, but it's it's a little bit of a a difference.
26:20
This is more of a casual concept.
26:22
There are things you can take as inspiration, but there's it's
26:26
definitely two different, two different concepts.
26:29
So there are things there, but not not like to the full extent.
26:34
So so got it. Yeah, yeah.
26:36
Because when I was originally writing this book, the
26:38
restaurant wasn't open. So that was a project and then
26:40
we opened the restaurant. So I want to ask you about this
26:42
because you've done the hotel circuit right now, the
26:46
restaurants in inside The Four Seasons that you oversee.
26:50
I know you've worked at the Hotel Intercontinental as a
26:52
culinary director. How do you And you've also
26:56
worked in the independent restaurants, great restaurants,
26:59
right? How do you navigate the world of
27:04
independent restaurants where you know chef is the law?
27:09
Right, Chef. Chef.
27:11
Chef is the law going into AI, don't want to say it's a
27:15
corporate setting, but it is a corporate setting.
27:16
But chef still is the law. But there's also other opinions,
27:19
right? You have a sales department,
27:20
general manager and all this. How do you how would you, how
27:24
would you push for a Michelin star in an independent
27:27
restaurant versus pushing for a Michelin star in a restaurant
27:30
that's attached to a hotel? And what's the difference?
27:33
I well, you know, I think it's, it's really you need to have a
27:38
team when it comes down to it, you know, whether you're in a
27:41
stand alone or a big corporation, if you don't have a
27:44
solid team that you supported and they support you, it's, it's
27:48
going to be very difficult. And I think for me, having that
27:52
team, that it's supportive. And then I'm, I'm supportive too
27:56
as well, whether it be anybody underneath me or above me or,
28:01
you know, side by side, whatever it is, it's, it's, it's pretty,
28:05
it's pretty amazing. You know, Napa in California,
28:08
it's a, it's a Mecca, you know, it's, it's a Mecca of, of food.
28:12
People go, I mean, legends, man. Like I I feel I feel
28:16
intimidating but also blessed and.
28:18
I I saw you where I saw on at the French Laundry 30th party, I
28:22
saw you. There.
28:22
Yeah, yeah. I mean, I'm, I'm, I'm, I'm just
28:26
grateful, man. Like to be honest, I'm grateful
28:28
that that this is, you never really know, you know, where
28:33
where you're going to land. And it's, it's only a dream,
28:36
right? Biggie Smalls, it's only a
28:38
dream. But, but I don't, I don't, you
28:41
never really know. I think as a as a young cook, it
28:45
was always to get a Michelin star, right?
28:47
It was always to maybe be on a cookie show, maybe write a
28:50
cookbook, maybe, you know, maybe also maybe they're.
28:52
Real now, right? Yeah, and I, I, I never thought
28:55
they, they would be real, you know, the, the, the amount of
28:58
dedication and work and sacrifice.
29:01
I, I, I say that lightly. It's, it's, it's a lot, you
29:03
know. From a leadership perspective
29:06
where you're at now versus you know, the independent
29:09
restaurants, do you, I don't want to say do you manage
29:12
differently, but they are different.
29:14
An independent restaurant is different than than than, you
29:17
know, a hotel. How do you what what's the same
29:20
for people listening? Because a lot of people are
29:21
like, I don't know if I want to work in a hotel.
29:23
I don't want to, I don't know if I want to work in an independent
29:25
restaurant. So if you're giving advice to
29:26
someone listening that's a new cook trying to make that
29:29
decision, what what are some of the key differences that you
29:32
would highlight? Well, I think you should do
29:34
both. You know, I think the more the
29:37
versatile you are and and everything in the in the
29:39
industry is going to benefit you.
29:40
I think you don't want to be just one just want, you know,
29:45
you want to do everything you want to be able to do banquets
29:47
of 204 hundred as equally as a beautiful tasting menu that
29:51
highlights whatever region you're at.
29:54
But being a leader, I'm still a student too.
29:57
You know, I don't I don't by any means feel that I've mastered
30:00
that. You know, I still continue to
30:04
strive to be better and I think you've, you, you know, you know
30:11
that it's a, it's a pressure right on all angles, from the
30:14
guests to the expectations, to the cooks, to the higher ups,
30:19
all that stuff. So, but I think in a stand alone
30:23
restaurant, there are things that, you know, you, you need to
30:27
be able to have a strong team as well, you know, and, and when
30:33
you're in a, in a hotel, there's a lot more leeway because
30:36
there's more outlets and, and I mean things like that, right?
30:41
So, you know, banquets, it's, I think everybody knows that when
30:45
you have banquets, it, it, it, it helps, it helps a lot.
30:49
And if you don't have a banquet room or a facility and you have
30:53
a, you know, you're waiting on, on reservation, things like
30:55
that, and you can't sit a 20 tower or 40 tower, whatever it
30:58
may be, it's, it's a lot difficult, you know, to do that.
31:01
So in a, in a, in a hotel and that, that, that has a brand
31:06
that's international, it's a huge help for for everybody, you
31:10
know. Yeah, it's interesting because
31:12
I, I, I've done both, just like you, you know, independent
31:15
restaurants, hotels. And sometimes I talk to people
31:18
and they're like, I would never go to a hotel.
31:20
I'm like, well, I wouldn't dismiss it just yet because,
31:23
well, for one, I, I feel like it's bad when we say I would
31:26
never do this because sometimes people who may actually need to
31:29
do that are afraid to do it because of how they're going to
31:31
be perceived by their peers, right?
31:33
It's like, well, if you have a family and you need medical
31:35
insurance, right? And you have bills and you're,
31:37
and you've worked in two or three restaurants that have you
31:39
walked in and there's a lock on the door and they never gave you
31:41
a last check, right? I mean, sometimes the hotel,
31:44
there's a trade off, but there's a lot of positives to it as
31:47
well. And I think, you know, we all at
31:50
the end of the day, like, yes, there's the cooking part at the
31:53
end of the day, most people just want to like, let's make sure
31:55
our basics are covered. We're paying our bills, our
31:57
families are taking care of. And sometimes the hotel offers
32:00
that security. The independent restaurant
32:02
doesn't. But sometimes I also feel like
32:04
you lose a little bit of the, you know, the chef carte
32:07
blanche, right? But in the restaurant, I will
32:09
say this, in my opinion, a restaurant, you learn to react
32:13
faster, right? Because in a hotel, sometimes
32:15
it's like we don't need to make a move because rooms are still
32:18
full. Right, right, right.
32:19
Yeah, You know. Banquets are still busy.
32:21
We don't need to. Like it might be a problem, but
32:23
we it's not, it's not a problem until the next six months,
32:25
right? We're in a restaurant.
32:26
If you don't fix it today, you might not be open.
32:29
Next month, exactly. So it's, yeah, it's a, it's a
32:32
different mindset. I, I like you said, I would
32:34
encourage people to, to work in both.
32:36
So I don't know if, you know, the Michelin guys coming to
32:38
Texas, right. Me too.
32:41
Me too. I mean, I'm kind of bummed that
32:42
I'm not even, you know, I'm not in the game anymore, but I kind
32:45
of want to get back in just for that.
32:47
But I'm excited. It's interesting that Michelin
32:50
went to Mexico. I'm, I'm wondering if if you
32:53
could share your opinion on this.
32:54
But where do you think it it's, it's, it's going because, yeah,
32:59
we had the Taco shop in, in Mexico.
33:01
Get it? Yeah, obviously they did what
33:04
they did in Singapore. And then you have like a lot of
33:06
people, like, no, it should be strictly fine dining and other
33:08
people now we're expanding into different types of cuisine and
33:11
we're celebrating that. What What's your take on?
33:14
Well, I think as far as as far as Texas, I want to make a
33:18
prediction here, make a prediction.
33:21
There's been a lot of those. First first BBQ spy to get a
33:23
mission, a star. What do you think?
33:25
What do you think? I, I, I'll tell you what, I
33:27
agree with you and I'm going to, I'm going to say this, but I'm
33:29
going to cut this part out. I'll have our opinion that they
33:32
don't say on the podcast. Right, right, right.
33:34
But I do think my prediction is I do.
33:37
I agree with you. There will be a barbecue in
33:39
Michelin. I think you have to man, like I
33:41
feel like, like it's, it's, I mean, I, I don't, I, I'm not
33:45
from Texas, I'm not from here, but I think from afar, right?
33:49
I think it's, I think BBQ it's, it's, it's, it's from Texas,
33:53
right? Like, like, I think I, I feel
33:55
it's like it's like that that Taco guy getting a mission star
33:58
in Mexico, right? It's, it's a beautiful art as
34:02
well, right? It's, it's as complex and as
34:04
delicate and as, as anything else.
34:07
And so having that would, would really define that art and it's
34:15
and, and, and, and almost put in this pillar of, of, of what BBQ
34:19
is. I, I, I was in Houston last week
34:23
and I had an incredible BBQ here.
34:27
But it's, it's, I, I think it's great.
34:32
I think it brings a lot of for, for chefs, a lot of awareness
34:36
and and support and exposure and worldwide.
34:41
How do you change you and and the restaurant in particular at
34:46
the four? Does the hotel also have
34:47
Michelin key too? Right, one, one key.
34:50
Congratulations to you and the team there.
34:51
Thank you. Where I used to work, they just
34:53
got one as well. So.
34:53
I know, I saw that. Congratulations to those guys
34:55
too. But with regards to business
35:00
levels, how did it impact when you got the star at the
35:03
restaurant? Did you guys get significantly
35:05
busier? We did.
35:06
Yeah, we did. We got significantly busier.
35:09
And I mean, everything just goes up.
35:14
I think for me, though, validation, you know, just just
35:18
for myself, I think I've, I've, I again, it's a dream that I've
35:22
had. Everybody has different dreams.
35:24
Some people want it, some people never wanted it.
35:27
For me has always been a long dream.
35:28
And, and to be able to have it, it's, it's just, it's
35:31
incredible. And I and, and for the team too,
35:34
the morale that mean working extremely hard, late nights,
35:39
sacrifice all that stuff. And, and for it to, to come like
35:43
that, I'm just very humbled and grateful that that it did 'cause
35:48
there's been many times that I, that I wasn't on the list, you
35:51
know, I mean, there's many times that I, that I, that I felt
35:55
like, I felt, and the years, right, building up to that.
36:03
How do you pick yourself back up from like, I got to do it again
36:05
one more year and I got to like, you know, do better, You know,
36:11
like really looking yourself in the mirror and saying I got to
36:13
do better. This is not for any.
36:15
This is this is something between me and myself.
36:17
Like I'm looking at myself in the mirror and saying you need
36:20
to be better. So what, what, what can I do?
36:21
Do I more books, more research, more conversations, more stages,
36:28
more eating out more, you know, all that stuff that it's when
36:31
you put it all together and it still doesn't, it's still not
36:34
good enough. And then do it again and then do
36:36
it again and do it again and do it again and every, it's every
36:38
year, right? So you're getting older and,
36:42
and, and, and, and so that's, that was the process, right?
36:46
So I think when we, when I got it, it was, yes, it was the two
36:49
years or well, it was eight months when we got it.
36:52
It's when we opened to when we got it, but it was a build up of
36:54
like 20 years, man. It's like of, of of of pushing
36:58
for that. Let me ask you a question
37:00
because you incorporate your own personality and you said this a
37:06
little bit earlier where you talked about how, you know,
37:10
doing Mexican food. But when you were coming up, I
37:14
mean, I hate to say this, but in the United States, I feel like
37:16
besides what Rick Bayless was doing, there wasn't a lot of
37:19
chefs that were able to cook Mexican food and be considered
37:23
like, OK, you know, they got they got the they're legit,
37:25
they're swan, yay. And I feel like, I mean, I look
37:29
at myself being, you know, same. And it's like, I never cooked
37:33
Mexican food outside of home. Yeah.
37:35
And I and I, I feel like sometimes like, oh, Mexican food
37:38
became accepted for me a little too late, right?
37:41
You know, yeah. Yeah.
37:41
So how did you, you know, I was Mexican when it wasn't cool, but
37:50
how do you reconcile that now with your food because you some
37:53
of the restaurants that you've worked in.
37:55
Yeah. And correct me if I'm wrong, I
37:57
haven't been Mexican, right, Right.
37:58
So, so you're pulling from your own heritage, right?
38:01
And and now expressing that. So how do you, how do you
38:03
reconcile that in Napa Valley, right?
38:05
Like that is, you know, such a, such a legacy.
38:08
With food, yeah, I mean, I couldn't just do it right off
38:11
the bat. You know, I you specifically in
38:13
Napa, I definitely had to do a lot of research.
38:17
I definitely had to, you know, work with these restaurants to
38:20
understand. And, and like I said, when how I
38:23
started not even know what a six man was and what the difference
38:26
between a lime and a lemon was to being here today has been a
38:29
lot of dedication and, and, and just learning, just trying to be
38:34
a sponge and learn. And, and when I was going to
38:39
open the restaurant oral and, and come back to Napa, because I
38:41
was in San Francisco for 70 years and coming back, I, I, I
38:45
didn't want to do what the other restaurants did right.
38:48
I really wanted to highlight who I was.
38:53
And, you know, people, some people may say, I, I, you don't
38:55
really cook Mexican food or it's too, it's too fine dining,
38:58
whatever it may be. But I think when you have worked
39:02
in research, then you have the confidence to do it.
39:08
It's, it's, and, you know, yourself, it's, it's a, it's, it
39:12
takes a, you know, it's a, it's a, it's a journey to get to that
39:15
point, you know, and I still feel a little, you know,
39:19
sometimes like, wow, you know, should I do this?
39:22
Should I not do this? Like, you know, I, I remember
39:24
just researching the book, we were talking to historians and a
39:27
lot of people were, we're not happy the approach we're going
39:29
to take or, you know, it wasn't, it wasn't traditional and things
39:35
like that. So we just had to do it.
39:38
You know, I grew up in Northern California.
39:40
So if I was growing up in Mexico City or Oaxaca or, or, or more
39:45
traditional take, then that would have been the take.
39:47
But I grew up in Northern California.
39:50
I for some reason, just, I represent Northern California
39:55
and, and those ingredients and, and, and, and all that stuff, as
39:59
AI would say American Mexican chef or Mexican American chef.
40:02
So that's how the book was born. That's how the ideas were born.
40:06
That's how the restaurant was born.
40:07
And, and, and I just, I, I think just pushing, you know, pushing
40:13
for a, for a, for a voice well. It's yeah.
40:16
I talked to David Gallotti. David Soussio, right?
40:19
Yeah. Yeah, yeah.
40:20
Shout out to him. Oh boy.
40:22
And I I I heard your, your interview with him.
40:25
Yeah, I don't. Craig, what do you call you Like
40:27
the the brown? Yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:30
Yeah, it was good though. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
40:32
Do you feel especially in, in Napa, Yeah.
40:35
Do you feel a little bit of pressure like from the, the
40:39
community of, of like the hype? And, and I don't want to say
40:44
hype. Maybe that's not the right word.
40:45
I'm going to think about how I want to ask this.
40:47
But you have a lot of the Hispanic community behind you
40:53
rooting for you. So like, you know, we're all
40:55
proud. That's one of us, right?
40:56
You made it you, you did all, you know, it's the American
40:59
dream, so to speak. Do you ever feel a little bit of
41:03
pressure to live up to that? You know, I think the pressure
41:06
that I live up to is to be honest, is the pressure that and
41:10
my mother had to do to get us here.
41:13
You know, I think that's the I, I don't think I, I'd done enough
41:17
to even come close to what she did.
41:20
You know, leaving her country, you know, leaving her mother,
41:24
her, her friends, her brothers, her sisters and, and starting
41:29
over in a country where you don't know the name, you don't
41:32
know the currency, you don't know anybody.
41:34
The time there's no GPS or anything that you can, you know,
41:38
nothing like that, right. So that, that to me is a, is a,
41:42
is something that I, it's, it's when you, when you think about
41:48
that, for me, it's, it's, I have to, I have to do right by that.
41:53
And so because, because that, that journey is, it's, it's a
41:59
journey that is still happening today, right?
42:02
But for her, she's, she's super proud.
42:06
And, and you know, I, I thank her in the book.
42:08
I, you know, we're doing a couple of book signings and, and
42:11
dinners out of the book and I, you know, she's going to be
42:14
present, but I think that's, that's the pressure that I feel,
42:17
right? Like that pressure of of trying
42:19
to even come close to doing anything like that.
42:22
So I want to I want to switch subjects, but one of the one of
42:25
the questions I get often on the chef's PSA from a lot of chefs
42:28
in the DMS are in my weekly Q&A. They always ask me like, what do
42:31
you get? What are you doing to take care
42:32
of yourself? What do you what's your advice
42:34
for mental health and what do you do as a chef to make sure
42:39
that you remain physically fit and stay stay?
42:42
What's your Wellness routine look like?
42:43
I run, I love running, I love staying active.
42:46
I go to the gym. I live in in, in the hills of
42:50
kind of Saint Lena, like it's, it's, it's so I do a lot of the
42:53
hikes up there and, and eat, I try to eat well, like I try to
42:58
re eat vegetables a lot and, and, and stay out of the, you
43:02
know, I don't eat a lot of meat, fish.
43:04
I love, but staying active and, and staying connected.
43:09
I think it's the the biggest thing, you know, just just
43:11
anything that that, you know, keeping family close, but also
43:14
friends and and having all those people around you that really
43:19
care about you and want you to do well and then being a support
43:23
for them as well in any way shape where you can do that.
43:26
So I I know you used to train MMA, yeah.
43:28
Taekwondo. Yeah, yeah.
43:29
And all that. And you're into UFC.
43:33
Do you think any of that martial arts training is similar to what
43:38
you do in the kitchen? Or is there any crossover?
43:40
Is there anything that you took from that that you applied to
43:42
the kitchen? Discipline, discipline and and
43:46
and and take care of yourself, You know, like those those
43:48
things are, are crucial, right, because it'll show like it'll,
43:52
it'll show like when we were training and, and when I was
43:55
doing, you know, Taekwondo and and the MMA.
44:00
I mean, I was, there was guys, you know, they were incredible,
44:02
man. Like they would compete
44:03
professionally. And I think I stopped because I
44:05
was, I, I, I didn't want to get hurt.
44:07
Yeah. Were you?
44:08
Were you a chef at this time? I was, yeah, yeah, I was in, I
44:11
was in. I was probably like a sous chef
44:13
or a cook. Yeah.
44:14
And I think as I got higher in the rankings, it was super hard,
44:17
right? It's like it's one or the other.
44:19
So I you know it, it consumes you but.
44:21
You have a sparring day. You come in with a black Castle
44:23
line. Yeah, but but it's, it's it's a
44:27
discipline in, in the, in the workouts that that teaches you,
44:31
you know, all those things in, in, in, in that field because
44:35
it'll show when it's when it's go time.
44:36
If I wasn't, if I didn't do the morning runs at 5:00 in the
44:39
morning, if I didn't do the workouts when we were going to
44:42
spar, it'll show like I would be super tired then you're not
44:46
eating well and it'd be difficult to perform.
44:49
And it's the thing in the kitchen, like if you don't take
44:52
care of yourself, though hours are long, right?
44:54
It's, it is a sport in many, many ways.
44:58
You have to be focused, dedicated and, and alert at all
45:03
times because it's, it's you and then it's your staff, right?
45:06
Everywhere, the guest, right? All these people depend on, on,
45:10
on you. So the more you're, you know,
45:14
you, you are taking care of yourself, the better everybody's
45:17
going to be. So.
45:18
It's funny because I, I think a lot of people don't realize that
45:21
until, like, you work with a lot of cooks and you see them
45:23
abusing their body when they're young.
45:26
And it's like, man, I took good care of myself when I was young.
45:28
Yeah. I, you know, I used to do MMA as
45:30
well. And, and like now I'm, I'm not
45:33
in the best shape, but it's like, man, it all caught up to
45:35
me from the kitchen. Yeah.
45:37
And from MMA, like my back's not that great.
45:39
I have to walk down the stairs backwards because my knees are
45:42
not great. Like there's a lot of things
45:44
that I think, man, I, I even though I did take care of
45:47
myself, I realized I didn't even take like not even as good.
45:50
As I should right, right, right as.
45:51
Good as I should. And I was like, man, people need
45:53
to really realize like that it it does catch up to you and one
45:56
day to the next, you'll feel it. Right.
45:58
Well, somebody said it best, man.
46:00
It's like what you're doing now. It's what it's we're doing it
46:03
for later. It's not for now.
46:04
It's it's for when you're in 40s and 50s, right.
46:06
So if you could give yourself now, it's, it's those years that
46:09
you're going to be grateful for. Yeah.
46:11
And and you know, it's it's the 1015 years after that after now,
46:15
but top fighter man for you. Right now I, I I really don't
46:23
like Islam markership. OK, yeah, I I like his style.
46:27
You know, I always like the wrestler type.
46:29
I like, I like guys like Khabib that are like super dominant
46:32
like that still have this aura of unbeatable.
46:37
Yeah, like obviously you know the the Diaz brothers.
46:40
I love, I love them. Back back in the day,
46:43
especially, you know, the the the like you were talking about
46:45
earlier, like the trilogy fights with those were great.
46:48
But if I had like, if I had like my favorite all time fighters
46:53
would be like, because I used to be a Muay Thai kickboxer.
46:56
So I like those guys. Like I like Mirko Crow cop.
46:59
You know, they're going back. Yeah.
47:00
I really like Mirko Crow cop. Like if I had my top four.
47:03
Yeah, Yeah. I liked Daniel Cormier.
47:05
Yeah. I wanted him to beat Jon Jones
47:07
so bad. Yeah.
47:08
Right. That was tough.
47:09
Man, you got that was tough. I I really like Daniel Cormier.
47:11
I like his personality, just like a fun guy.
47:13
Yeah, Khabib, yes. And then someone we were talking
47:16
about someone they don't talk about, not Randy Couture, right.
47:19
So that that would be my top 4. Damn, that's awesome.
47:21
How about you? Man, I would say, I mean John
47:25
Jones, man. Yeah, George, Saint Pierre,
47:29
another legend, Cain Velasquez, when he won the title hit for
47:33
some. I was in my early 20s man, and
47:35
he's from Northern California. Right.
47:37
So that was that was that was a good, that was a good one to see
47:41
and. When Kane was on top, he was
47:43
unbeatable. He was.
47:45
Up until up until he got beat, he got unstoppable.
47:48
He was, I mean, when he beat that the, the, the the wrestler
47:52
Brock Lesnar, yeah. I was pretty cool, man.
47:54
That was amazing that that just, you know, for me was a a moment
47:57
of, of like true skill, right. Smaller, you know, you know, not
48:02
as big as as Brock Lesnar, but he he like was super talented
48:05
Mexican cardio. Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
48:09
Who else? Amanda Nunez, man.
48:15
Yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, she's yeah, she's she's she's yeah.
48:18
So I think all, all those, and I mean, there's so many.
48:22
We were so in it when I was, when I was training because of,
48:25
of, you know, we were that we were always put, it was a big
48:28
screen and they would see the fights and we would talk about
48:30
who was fighting and what the pay per views and things like
48:32
that. And I, I, I've never seen one
48:35
though. I've actually never seen a fight
48:37
really. Nope.
48:38
Oh shit, we got to change that. I know, man.
48:39
I got to go to Vegas, man. I got to go to Vegas.
48:42
Man, we got to get you to the spirit.
48:44
Yeah. It's, it's funny because that's
48:47
why I used to train. I used to spar and I and I had,
48:49
you know, that life. Yeah.
48:50
In, in the gym. And there's something that I, I
48:53
would say to people that that have never done that.
48:56
It's like I used to say, like I've been in more fights
48:58
sometimes in a day than most people have in their whole life.
49:00
Yeah, right. Just in sparring sessions,
49:02
right? But when you spar with someone,
49:03
whether it's when in MMA, what the way it looks on TV, but in
49:07
real life, you know who's going to win when you feel each other,
49:12
right? Like when you feel the first
49:13
time, you get it, you're like, I'm going to it might look like
49:15
it's competitive, but it's not like I know, I'm, I know, I know
49:18
I'm going to beat this guy. Same thing when they grab you,
49:20
right? Like, you know.
49:21
I feel like sometimes it's the same thing in cooking because to
49:25
the outsider that doesn't know what they're looking at, they're
49:28
like, all these chefs are the same.
49:29
But when you're at the top and you're like, Nah, there's,
49:33
there's things that I see that you don't see.
49:34
Right, right, right. Right.
49:35
Like you don't pick up on the details and it could have been
49:38
just yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah. They forgot to peel that twice.
49:40
Right. With whatever it is.
49:43
That was. That was a little too big, but
49:48
it's, there's a lot of similarities in the fine world,
49:50
in the culinary world. It's it's the attention to
49:52
detail, when you get, when you get up there.
49:54
And I remember when I was starting the, the, the MMA, they
49:59
were like, yo, like you, you have to know how, how to get
50:02
hit. And I was like, what I'm, I'm
50:04
going to get hit. Like, I have to know how to get
50:06
hit, you know, like, because, because people, you know, when,
50:09
when, when you're sparring and you get hit like the first time
50:12
in the face, you, you, you, you lose it like you're stunned and
50:15
you're, you can't grasp, grasp it.
50:18
So you have to know how to keep composure because you will get
50:20
hit in the face. You say, you know, but but those
50:23
trainings, man, like I miss some.
50:25
I do miss some and I think it's I love the cardio, the
50:28
camaraderie, that advice, right, of how to eat better and and
50:33
what is he doing and what are they doing and things like that.
50:36
It's. It's almost like a kitchen
50:37
atmosphere. In the IT is, yeah, it is very
50:39
similar and competitive too. Very, very.
50:41
Yes, chef. Yes, Coach.
50:42
Yes, same thing. Yes, yes.
50:44
It's interesting, I was telling someone this the other day.
50:46
Like, there's a difference between, like, when you're
50:49
hitting pads and you're learning how to punch and kick, right?
50:51
Like, that looks really good, right?
50:53
It's like someone that has like, hey, I, I I know how to do this
50:57
on the cutting board. But then it's like, OK, now go
50:59
spar. Yeah.
51:00
I was like, oh, yeah, you thought you knew, but this
51:02
changes everything. Exactly.
51:04
You went to culinary school. You had at least now go work in
51:06
a real kitchen. Like, whoa.
51:07
Everything that I learned, all of a sudden now I'm getting
51:09
punched in the face with the tickets.
51:10
Exactly like like. Working in a restaurant versus
51:13
culinary school is like hitting pads and then being in the Spar
51:16
instead of being in a real. Fun, right, Right, Right.
51:18
Yeah. Man, I miss it.
51:19
I miss it. I had to go back and and do it,
51:22
but I right now it's just it's just running.
51:24
I love running. It's peaceful.
51:25
It's outside, it's the beautiful Napa.
51:27
I like a hiking trail. So it's pretty, pretty
51:29
incredible. So chef, we're going to wrap up
51:31
just with a couple of questions that I ask every single guest
51:35
that comes off. If you had to recognize 4 chefs
51:39
for the Mount Rushmore of chefs who who would be on on the on
51:43
the Legacy Mountain for you? Man, too many to choose from.
51:47
I would say Thomas Keller, you know, I think obviously, you
51:51
know, American chef and for everything he's done for
51:54
American cuisine in the region that I, I grew up in, I was
52:00
saying Enrique Alvera, you know, for my roots and what he did for
52:04
Mexican cuisine. 111 of the first.
52:06
I was able to meet him for the first time this year.
52:08
Oh yeah, in Vegas. I was super excited.
52:12
And yeah, it was it was it was definitely a moment.
52:18
I would say, I would say somebody like Gordon Ramsay just
52:23
because how versatile he is with being a three Michelin star chef
52:27
and also. Selen hex clap at the same.
52:29
Time, I mean, I mean, I mean, I mean how that that's a talent
52:33
and like, you know, I agree with you 100%.
52:36
The other stuff I've, you know, I've never worked for him.
52:38
I've I've met him in passing, but I'm so impressed of how he's
52:42
able to do both of those things to the highest level, right.
52:48
And so it's it's definitely and. And sell the character.
52:50
Sell it. Right, Yeah, he can sell.
52:52
He could sell like he's Gordon Ramsay.
52:53
I'm I don't I wonder what he's like in real person.
52:55
In real person, right, Right. Yeah, yeah, yeah, 'cause.
52:57
You see the food that he's putting at restaurant Gordon
52:59
Ramsay, it's like, and then it's like, well, he's still that guy,
53:02
too. Right, right.
53:03
Yeah. But also opening doors for, you
53:05
know, the chefs and opportunities.
53:07
You know, maybe I think that's that's that's one.
53:14
That's a good one, man. I don't know.
53:17
I was. I'll stick to three.
53:19
It's three, all right? Yeah.
53:20
There's too many. Too many, too many to think
53:21
about. South So for a new cook that's
53:23
listening right now, if you were to give them advice, something
53:25
that you wish you knew when you first started cooking, what
53:27
would you tell them? What I think, what I think I
53:30
would, that I knew when I started cooking is be more
53:33
patient. You know, I, I, I, I have a hard
53:36
time with that. And I think in kitchens, you're
53:38
used to not being so patient because everything has to be
53:40
done, the faster the better, but being patient with, with the
53:45
process, with yourself, with your environment, I think
53:48
that's, that would, that's my advice is to really be patient
53:52
because it, it'll come. If you work hard and you and you
53:55
really dedicate yourself and you dream of it and you speak it and
53:59
you are able to even dream it, it it'll, it'll come.
54:04
It definitely will come. And and then my last question,
54:07
if you had a chef's PSA out there like chefs, you need to
54:10
stop doing this or start doing this, What would what would be
54:14
the, the chef's PSA from you? Who I would say cook who you
54:23
are, you know who you are, who you, you know and not.
54:29
And I and I, I've been at fault at this as my, you know, as a
54:32
younger chef trying to do fancy or trying to do something that's
54:37
not who I am. And it really takes a lot of
54:39
maturity. But I think define who you are
54:42
and, and, and where you grew up and what your heritage is and
54:46
your roots and all that stuff, because I think that's, that's
54:48
how it kind of flows, at least for me, naturally and, and
54:52
successfully. Yeah, it's easier to be you
54:54
than. Anyone else right, right.
54:55
I think that's, that's the biggest thing.
54:56
It's like you, you, you can't be the next whatever.
55:01
It's, it's, you can only be who you are.
55:03
And, and I think I in, in my younger years, I would struggle
55:08
and I would have to go to, you know, a different route and I
55:10
would be like, what am I doing? I I got to do who I am, you
55:14
know? Well, chef, where can people
55:15
find you? Where can they get the book?
55:17
So I am in Calistoga my the restaurant is Oro inside The
55:22
Four Seasons. You know, we're going into our
55:24
second year of opening. I've been quite a journey.
55:30
Con Vivir was published on September 17th of this year.
55:33
So there's a a couple of book signings throughout the Bay
55:36
Area, but come see me in Catastoga.
55:39
It's about 20 miles from the city of Napa and about, you
55:43
know, an hour and a half from from San Francisco.
55:45
So thanks for having me. Really appreciate it on
55:48
Instagram. Find me on Instagram Chef
55:50
Rogelio Garcia. Awesome brother, good seeing
55:54
you. Likewise, Thank you.
55:57
Well, I hope you enjoyed the show.
55:58
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56:00
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56:24
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