Latest / Divorce Coaches Academy / The Unicorn in the Room: A Divorce Coach Takes Her Seat at the Collaborative Table
Transcript
- Tracy Callahan: Welcome back to Divorce Coaches Academy Podcast. I am Tracy. And today's conversation is one I have been so looking forward to because it marks a real shift in how our profession of divorce coaching is recognized. For years, years, I'm talking a long time people, collaborative practice has included a dedicated coaching role on the interdisciplinary team. And they called themselves divorce coaches. But eligibility for that role has mostly been limited to professionals from a mental health background. And that left professionally trained divorce coaches in a rather precarious position. Right? Collaborative lawyers trusted them, referred clients to them, and those coaches supported families through the collaborative process every day. But they couldn't formally take a seat at the table. And I am so excited to share that has now changed in Edmonton, Canada. So my guest today is Dory Brattle, known to many as the divorce mentor as well as the Director of Education for Divorce Coaches Academy in Canada. She is a full-time professional divorce coach since 2020, and she has just become a registered collaborative professional. In the divorce coach role. She is the first divorce coach to enter collaborative practice through a new eligibility pathway that she advocated for that recognizes specialized divorce coaching education, education, including training through DCA. And Dory just recently wrote about this experience in her article on LinkedIn called The Unicorn in the Room, describing what it was like to be one of the only for non-lawyers among roughly two dozen people in the training and the only one whose background was specifically in divorce coaching. So we'll talk about the long road to this moment, how the change actually came about and what she saw in those training rooms and what it Dori Braddell: Yeah. Tracy Callahan: means for us who want to follow her through that door. Dory. Welcome to the show and congratulations. I've known about this for a bit, everyone. So I've been jumping up and down. Dori Braddell: Yeah. Tracy Callahan: But you all can jump up and down now with us. Dori Braddell: Thanks, Tracy. Yeah, you've been along for the ride with the regular updates as we waited for this gate to lift, right? Tracy Callahan: Yes, yes. I've been secretly praying, manifesting, I don't know, for years years and you did it. So let's let's dive into this because I'm sure there's a lot of inquiring minds who wanna know. Right. Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: Your article, I loved it, I loved your piece, right? And and you opened it with Sesame Street song, right? And I used to sing this. One of these things do not belong here. Right. Okay. I'm not gonna there, but I'm hoping that you can take us into that room. What did it feel like to walk in as unicorn to this collaborative practice, this place where we have not been allowed to walk into? Dori Braddell: Tracy, imposter syndrome was on loud. It was on Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: full alert. I remember, you know, parking and and waiting to go into the first training, which was in June, and really feeling nervous. Wondering if I would be judged as somebody that was qualified to be there, wondering what this meant for my colleagues. but but definitely the imposter syndrome was the biggest thing. And it it comes up still for me. Every time, every time we break ground and I'm at a place where no one has seen someone like me before, when I got to speak to the Bar Association and do a presentation, when I attended an AFCC event, every time I'm at the door, sweaty palmed, nervous, and just really going in there with a point to prove that we do belong there. But it it does feel a bit anxiety causing, if I'm honest. Tracy Callahan: Yeah, well, because you weren't just walking in there for yourself. You were walking in carrying a profession with you. That Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: that no doubt is high pressure. Dori Braddell: Yeah. And everybody knows what everybody else does in that room. Right? Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: You've got you've got two dozen lawyers, you've got masters of social work, registered psychologists, people who have defined education that people understand. We know and admire the academics that it took for them to get there and what they had to do to be credentialed, and nobody knows why somebody like me's there. Tracy Callahan: Yeah, well they didn't know yet. And you guys know I Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: like the word yet. All right. So so let's let's talk about this, right? Kind of working behind the scenes. Before, obviously, you kicked your way through the door. No, you didn't hurt anybody. But you are already coaching clients who were in a collaborative divorce process. What did that look like? Right. Because this isn't it may be unknown territory for those people sitting in that room as part of the collab team, but not unknown to us as divorce coaches who are actually working with clients who are in that process currently or have been. Dori Braddell: That's right. Yeah, for seven years I I have been supporting people using collaborative process like all the other processes. And and often, you know, they're coming to us and choosing collaborative practice because of what they're hearing from us as we explain all the different process options, the pros and cons, and walking them through what choice feels like the best choice for them. So we're already in it. We're already helping them decide how to propose collab to their spouse, for example, how to find their collaborative attorney, lawyer to represent them. we may be making the referral out to collaborative practice and and teeing them up with that new connection. So yeah, nothing foreign about supporting clients in collaborative with the same way we support them in all the processes, right? Emotional regulation, ability to communicate. that really ground level awareness of what to expect when they walk in the room. It's a four-way. It's gonna last this long. This is how you're gonna sit. This is what's going to happen at the first meeting. They were getting that already from us. We just couldn't we couldn't be Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Yeah. Dori Braddell: part of the team publicly, unfortunately. Tracy Callahan: Yeah, but there's some limits on that, right? So although we as divorce coaches may be supporting clients and identifying collaborative process as something that aligns with their values and their desired outcomes, still not being part of that formally on the team, if you will, certainly has an impact, right? Not Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: just you, but certainly to the client. Do you see where there were some practical limits? prior to that as supporting clients but not necessarily having a seat at that table with Dori Braddell: Mm. That's right. It always felt like w I was a little outside. Right. Maybe Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: it wasn't really transparent to the team that the client was working with me. I wasn't referred to perhaps in the conversation and in the in their process. and I wasn't able to have a direct line of communication with the family law lawyers that were engaged in the process and leading the way for these people. And in this model, I can meet with the team. In advance, I can hear both lawyers' perspectives about what the sticky bits are going to be potentially. They can reach Tracy Callahan: Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: out if if there's a four-way that felt really, really tough and they've got some feedback to give to the coach, maybe in in their work with the client. And in this model, what's really neat, and I have yet to do it, but I'm excited to is the two-client, one coach version. So Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: the interdisciplinary team provides both paths. So client client each have their own coach or two clients both working with the same coach. So a brand Tracy Callahan: Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: new door opened there to be able to do that as a divorce coach that I'm excited about. Tracy Callahan: That hybridy thing between, that coaching and facilitating joint problem solving. So you Dori Braddell: That's right. Tracy Callahan: you wrote that being excluded stung, right? I feel that sting all the time. I do. Sorry, Dori Braddell: If you Tracy Callahan: everyone. I do, right? How Dori Braddell: You ready? Tracy Callahan: did you hold that frustration professionally? Right. Especially when collaborative lawyers were sending you some of their clients. Dori Braddell: All the time. Tracy Callahan: It's like you're, you're, you're, okay, work on a on the side, right? You're Dory, you're our man, but at the same woman, but at the same time, not part of that. Dori Braddell: Yeah. I just have to remind myself often, Tracy, that this is what it's like being in a field in its infancy. Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: It's it's about breaking ground. It's about advocating. It's about being an ambassador for a new field. And that sometimes is going to mean that we're not included and we have to kick down those doors and and it's uncomfortable. Yes. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Or just keep knocking a lot. Dori Braddell: All the time. But the beautiful thing is that we're so well received when people do engage. I've had no resistance. I have felt so welcomed by at the training and by the Edmonton Collaborative Practice Association. You know, I got congratulatory messages from a bunch of lawyers and different things. And they're very glad to have us there. But many of them didn't know we existed all that not all Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: that long ago. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. I mean, the work that we do at DCA, as you know, as the director for Canada, like advocacy, advocacy, advocacy, right? In in terms of the work that we're doing and ensuring that the people who are then advocating, you know, can not only talk the talk, but walk the walk. So, which I think is so significant for those of you who are listening who have not been formally trained in dispute resolution as a divorce coach that this this is the time now to really take some reflection on your training and say, how can I level up? Right. Dori Braddell: Mm. I Tracy, I think that's part of my sweaty palms when I walk Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: in these rooms is is really being acutely aware and leery of perhaps some experiences these divorce professionals have had with coaches before me. And perhaps they weren't an ambassador for the field the way we would have liked them to have been. And so we're fighting a bit up Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: and undoing some of the people that maybe have walked before us and not left the best impression and didn't have the credential or the ethics, the standards of practice that we do. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Yes. Yes. Okay. All right. Get I I I know the history pretty, you know, fluently. But for our listeners who may not understand the eligibility issue, right? Can you kind of share a little why divorce coaching or this coaching role historically was tied to a mental health background in the collaborative process? Dori Braddell: Right. Well, because there weren't people like us to even be Tracy Callahan: Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: considered way back when, right? I was doing some reading about the origin story of the interdisciplinary team. And of course, at the time there w was nobody other than a mental health professional. And these are registered psychologists, clinical social workers, you know, counselors that have their credentials that were the field that had the experience in emotional regulation, in conflict, in nonviolent communication, in all of that sort of thing. they're in the bylaws because that's who was an option. Tracy Callahan: Yeah, yeah. I know in the States, you know, one of the real issues when they were doing this was sort of That that security, if you will, right? They they wanted to have some kind of licensure or something, right? The the attorney is barred, right? The the people who were sitting as part of this interdisciplinary team had this sort of backup, if you will, a testament to their qualifications. And one of the challenges is there are Right. No national, international in Canada, in the US, around the world, certifying body that says, okay, yes, you all people, you divorce coaches, are blah, blah, blah. So it was very much tied to that licensed mental health professional or licensed mental health council, or what it is, which created, I think, some of that cushion, if you will, for the interdisciplinary team to at least say, okay. Well, here this person is a licensed therapist or whatnot. And one of the challenges, of course, I've always said is is that is wonderful. Right. I I'm not I are you standing up against that? No, we're I would never argue that, except for then let's not call them divorce coaches because these therapists mostly are not trained in divorce coaching, and divorce coaching is not therapy. Dori Braddell: That's right. Distinctly different fields. Tracy Callahan: distinctly different field. So how would you explain to a skeptical professional the difference between divorce coaching and therapy and why that divert that difference matters for this role? Dori Braddell: Right. Well, we know divorce coaching is looking through the windshield, right? This is this is forward motion, future focused, solution focused, action oriented. And therapy so often is how did I get here? And it's unpacking the origin of things. It's diagnostic. We are not. We are not treatment providers of of therapy. And we love our mental health professionals. Big pro therapy girl here. and and we appreciate what they do on the team in a in a perfect world, if money were no object, all of our clients would have both types of support. Tracy Callahan: Absolutely. Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: But we do different things, right? We we look at very specific actions that a client may choose to solve whatever's on fire today. And Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: therapy feels very different. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Yeah. I I really like to look at it with this idea, you know, the thing that I talk so much about in the work that we do as divorce coaches is really helping clients develop that conflict capacity. Right. Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: And and emotional regulation, being able to show up in an emotionally regulated way or managed way doesn't necessarily even discount all of this work that that client may be doing and healing and what. But this is the work in conflict, right? That we spend a lot of time with and supporting clients is developing those skills and strategies to be able to be able to engage in their thinking brain, right? To minimize that reactive process. Because there are a lot of times when that decision making has to be happening as part of this process. And and these are big stake decisions that do carry a lot of emotions. You you Dori Braddell: Absolutely. Tracy Callahan: meant In the article, the BAMF conference, right? And not having the nerve to ask whether you could attend. What would you tell your past self now? And and I and for anybody who doesn't know what we're talking about, I'm going to put a link to this article, but you can find it on LinkedIn. But it there will be there'll be a link in the show notes. But Dora, you want to expand upon that? Dori Braddell: I kept seeing these LinkedIn posts about this Banff contra Conference for Collaborative Practice Professionals. And the speakers and the agenda items, all of it was so in line with the type of CE that I like to consume. And I consume a lot of it, but I thought, geez, I'd love to be at that. I'd love to be at that. It was in a beautiful place and close to me in Banff. And I thought maybe I could reach out and say, hey, I know I'm not one of you, but Would be okay? Can I buy a ticket? Can I sign up? And I didn't do it. And you know what I would tell myself today is that it's uncomfortable being the first. And that's okay. That it's also worth it to be the first. And Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: that feeling vulnerable about doing it and reaching out and saying, Hey, see me. Can you let me in when you're not sure you belong? Yeah, it gets the heart racing a little bit. But there's lots of times when it's worth it to give it a go. Tracy Callahan: Yes, yes, yes. Okay, so let's talk about knocking on the door. And Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: and somebody answered. So Dori Braddell: Yeah. Tracy Callahan: Edmonton answered. The Edmonton Collaborative Practice Board answered. So what do you think the problem was the Edmonton Collaborative Practice Board was trying to solve and looking at this? Dori Braddell: Yeah, I think very clearly it's a lack of professionals for the interdisciplinary part of collaborative practice that is so essential. I mean, collaborative practice works on its own with two lawyers and two clients. But so often one of the real benefits of collab is that team approach and jointly hired financial neutrals, for example, and the support, the holistic support for clients to engage in this, you know, highly anxiety causing big stakes. process and negotiation. So, if you look at the Edmonton roster today that's public, there's 83 collaborative practice lawyers in our city of around a million people. There are seven financial, no, eleven financial neutrals. Two of them are also duly trained with coaching availability and then there's seven family specialists and then there's me as it just as Tracy Callahan: Hmm. Dori Braddell: I'm just alone on my little island, but I'm excited about it. But if you think about 83 practicing collaborative lawyers, there aren't Tracy Callahan: Wow, wow. Yes. Dori Braddell: enough people to support them. So if they wanted to practice collaborative practice with the full suite of tools available to make it a less stressful process, and to deal with the five to ten percent failure rate that I understand exists in collaborative Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: and we know is very expensive. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: failure, then they want to be able to utilize this team approach and there's just not enough of us to support it, to have options. Tracy Callahan: Yeah, those numbers. screaming that they had to they had a problem that they needed to address. Yeah. Dori Braddell: Right. And I understand this is this is global in collaborative is Tracy Callahan: Mm. Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: the model works, but there's gotta be people to refer out to that do the work. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. So you were part of making the case. Making the case for why they should look at divorce coaches for the role of divorce coaching. Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: what what arguments resonated most with the board do you think? And and were there any concerns that were kind of brought up or addressed with you as potential identified barriers? Dori Braddell: Right. Well the the one barrier you mentioned already, Tracy, and that's the unregulated industry. Right? Tracy Callahan: Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: to be able to reassure the board that there was a way to define which types of divorce coaches would have the quality of experience, the credential that mattered that they could trust. That was something that took some time to figure out, right? We also had to to bust the ICF myth. And you know, talk about a spike Tracy Callahan: Yes. Yes. Dori Braddell: The spicy LinkedIn post, look at my ICF post. Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: you know, we that ICF for other types of coaching does provide validity and legitimacy and proof that someone has taken a certain quality of training and invested a certain amount of hours in examination and in Tracy Callahan: Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: in or practice. And I had to explain that there is no such thing as an ICF certified divorce coach. There are ICF approved continuing education divorce coach training programs, but there is no ICF divorce coach. So Tracy Callahan: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Dori Braddell: initial thoughts about, could it be an ICF certification that reassured the board that there was a standard there? that had to be clawed back a little bit and some things explained. And we ended up at the end of the day naming two training providers specifically in their eligibility criteria by a change that the board And of course DCA is one of them. But that that came from providing our curriculum, providing our competency based certification method, our continuing education, our commitment, our standards of practice, our ethics, by submitting Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: all of that for review and just saying, Hey, here we are. What else do you want to know? Can I come to the Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: board? Can I write a letter? What what do you need from me? I'll d I'll dance. I'll do anything. Tracy Callahan: And this process didn't happen. Like this was something that was going on for a bit, right? The entire thing took about a year. What do you think? How how do you think that conversation stayed in play? I mean, one, you're you're very, very on top of your game, Dory, but you could have walked away and just like, okay, right? You kept it going. You kept engagement on on providing some space, but also Persistence, if you will. Dori Braddell: Yeah, I really can't take credit for it, Tracy. The board was so forward thinking and recognized Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: the problem and wanted to find a solution where they struggled and and where some of that time got eaten up was trying to figure out legally, I mean this is this is a bunch of lawyers, of course, legally Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: what they needed to do with their governance. Was this going Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: to require a vote to the entire population? Is this something the board could do? This was a formal change. So they had to figure out where the authority was going to come from to change that. And I had a have an amazing contact here in Edmonton that's a long term board member that was really marching forward and I was just happy to support her in that march. and I'm Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: so grateful. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Well, I think they were grateful too. But yes, we are grateful that we had somebody sort of also guiding us in that process or guiding you in that process. And I think one thing that I really wanna stress here is that you made the point that the standards weren't being lowered by expanding this other pathway besides just a licensed mental health. a certification that you were basically saying the the standards are still super high. We Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: just need to be able to sort of recognize the appropriate standard for the appropriate profession. Dori Braddell: Absolutely. I think we're all very wary of how predatory people coming into this without the right intentions could be to a sector that is experiencing one of the most difficult transitions in their life. And everybody Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: involved wants to protect that. Let's make sure we do this right. Let's make sure the standard is there. Let's just open the door to this standard being satisfied. By somebody that got here a different way. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Yeah. So let's let's talk about the training because I think this is such a fun part of the story, right? So you completed the introduction to interdisciplinary collaborative practice and interest based negotiation training, which in itself was a pretty intense process, right? How long was it again? Dori Braddell: Yeah, it was two and a half days in June for the interdisciplinary. I think these are these are, full days with lawyers and trainers and and the first intro was about the team approach and all the different roles on the team and how that works together, the pieces of the puzzle. We had educators come in that that are acting as a family specialist and collaborative and also as the financial neutral. So figuring out how we all work together for two and a half days. And then four days of interest based negotiation, which I just absolutely loved, of course. Tracy Callahan: Yes, of course, because you're so skilled at it. So what what surprised you most? I'm not gonna give away the plot here. What wait what was your experience like, Dory? Dori Braddell: What surprised me most was I I could have closed my eyes at certain parts of each of those days and felt like I was in divorce coach training. I mean w we're listening to and learning about active listening, eye statements, conflict personalities, emotional regulation ability, interests, Goals, issues, mining for all of them. We're learning about reframing. I remember one I think it was in the first training, w one chapter was about the paradigm shift. and it it was like, Tracy Callahan: Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: Am I in divorce coach training or am I in collab training? It was just so in alignment with all the work that we do. And I guess maybe I didn't realize that collaborative lawyers received that much training. You and I talk Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: about the soft skills. that lawyers Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: look for when they sign up for divorce coach training. And really. Tracy Callahan: Yeah, which we have a tremendous amount, yeah, a lot of attorneys who come to our training looking for those things to support the work that they're doing. So you were seeing Dori Braddell: Right. And they're getting it in collaborative training, which I was I I didn't realize the the depth that they would go into about all of those skills. And I was so glad to see it. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. So I know that you were shining in this environment because one, this is what you know, two, this is what you do. Three, this is what you teach. So was Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: there a moment when you felt you showed the room what a divorce coach, a trained divorce coach brings to the table? Dori Braddell: Well, I had to stop myself from putting my hand up all the time when they were asked questions. Does anybody know what this means? And does anybody know how they would approach this? And Right, I didn't want to be the front of the class. Suck. But there were two moments that stood out. Well one was when we were doing a role model, and I think I was one of maybe four of us that actually thought that was great that we were role modeling. we love that in our work. The lawyers I don't We're so on board with it. But they put us into lots of different role modeling and this was the first one and I don't even remember the scenario. But all the fellow students paired up with somebody and because I was at the fringe corner of the room, I was partnerless because there was an odd number of us. So they gave me one of the trainers to be my client in this role model. I mean, if okay. And this this trainer was the financial neutral and I believe it was about active listening and curious questioning and and that sort of thing. And we got to the end of it and he just looked at me and he went, Huh. Wow. I can really see now how important it is that you do what you do. Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: And he was just like, that's that's it. I get the value of the work. Just from this little twenty minute role modeling demo, he understood Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Yeah. Dori Braddell: from the client's perspective what it would be like to have that kind of support. So that was one moment where I was like, huh, okay. Yay. And the other Tracy Callahan: Very charming. Mm-hmm. Dori Braddell: one was this this funny, funny thud that it landed with in the room when I had the opportunity to say, you know, In fact, divorce coaches are actually often working with the client long before you are. And and Tracy Callahan: Mm. Dori Braddell: we are the ones that help them select this process by educating them about what this process is and what all of the benefits are. And we're the ones that that you know encourage them about how they're going to engage in this process long before they've ever been in your office. And Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: you can see some of these light bulbs going, yeah, okay. So Coaches might have a longer relationship with these clients than the lawyers do. And I think that's surprising Tracy Callahan: Yeah, for sure. Dori Braddell: people. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. I I mean I can talk all all day about this, but I also want I want there to be some meaning here for those of you listening so we can do some more door knocking. What would what would you say to collaborative practice groups elsewhere? Elsewhere in the States or over on the other side of CA. that may be reconsidering their eligibility requirements and and looking at this additional pathway, right, of credentialed trained, certified divorce coaches, in addition, right? We're not taking away from what they have, but but clearly defining that in that distinct role. What what what do you think other divorce coaches need to be doing to to help Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: some of these other groups consider it. Consider Dori Braddell: Right. Tracy Callahan: it. Dori Braddell: Well, I think collaborative practice associations need to know we exist and they need to know what our training is, how involved it is, the skills that we bring to the table. And they may or may not know w what a proper professional certified divorce coach looks like. I'm hoping they do, but maybe they don't. So divorce coaches, if we can go out there and knock on those doors and say, Hey, we're here Right. If you're a a semi-successful divorce coach working in a certain market, you have already made connections with family law attorneys that that practice collaborative law, whether it's exclusively or whether it's one of the things, one of the flavors that they offer in their practice. Look at who your connections are. Go to the collaborative practice website, look at the roster, they're all public. Same with the IACP, the International Academy of Collaborative Professionals. Go looking. Who do you know that practices Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: Collaborative law. Who's on the board? Do you have an inroad somewhere? Is there somebody you can pitch? Somebody you can say, Hey, look, I understand this is what a divorce coach does in your collaborative practice model. This is who I am. This is my training. Can we talk about maybe a special exception to allow me to take the training? or can I present or appeal to your board to consider changing your eligibility? Tracy Callahan: Yeah. I love that, right? Dori Braddell: Same with financial professionals. Right? I I Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: I re these financial professionals I use them and refer to them for litigated divorce, for mediated divorce, for all all kinds of processes. If they're registered collaborative professionals, they have a way in. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. So it's really building those relationships, right? With collaborative communities and they're in your area, coaches listening, right? Even before that formal recognition exists, because I think that is part of that differentiating factor, right? That like no trust versus Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: the the story I heard about some some chick who got divorced who's out there telling people what to do. It's not what we do. And when we can exemplify that, when we can demonstrate it, when people can interact with us and have conversations with us that are grounded in these key concepts that we train day in, day out of interest-based negotiation and conflict capacity and being curious and developing these skills and then supporting your clients and developing those skills so they can show up as informed intentional decision makers, right? That is such Significant piece. You had a relationship, right? These people knew you and Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Tracy Callahan: the trust there. And of course, if there's anything that you listeners need as you're doing this, right? Just as we were supporting Dory in that process, whatever we need to be able to put forth for the board for consideration in terms of the level of training. And the outline of the curriculum and our standards of practice, which is all accessible, we're certainly here to support that process as well. Dori Braddell: Absolutely. Yeah. If anybody has ideas about some advocacy work in their local association, reach out anytime and and we can talk about a strategy. Happy to and hopefully the Edmonton practice makes some noise. Right? I mean was talking with Tracy Callahan: Yeah. I love Dori Braddell: one of the board members about trying to on their end let the International Academy of Collaborative Professionals know what Edmonton's done in a such a groundbreaking way. Tracy Callahan: Yeah. Dori Braddell: And how they've been so forward thinking and solved a problem. And they can be an ambassador of the practice associations as well, and open some new doors that way. Tracy Callahan: I love that. I love that. And yes, I am, I I want to thank Edmonton for for Dori Braddell: Maybe. Tracy Callahan: taking a chance and expanding their perspective and being open to solutions and options and addressing that that issue, that problem of who's on that interdisciplinary team and the amount of clients that are serving. And and trusting you in that process. It wasn't about compromising the standards, it was actually bolstering them. So, so what message would you like to leave for divorce coaches who still feel like they may be a unicorn in their own professional rooms? Dori Braddell: Well, Tracy, I can think of worse things to be than a unicorn for sure. And I just say, you know what? Tracy Callahan: That is true. Dori Braddell: what let's enjoy it while we can, because at some point, someday, I know that divorce coaches are going to be the norm and not the exception in the rooms that they go into. So we just gotta show up, shiny. be ambassadors and advocates and continuing to make it more commonplace to see us in these rooms and accept it at the table. Tracy Callahan: Wonderful. Dory, I as I said for all of our listeners, I will share Dory's contact information in in the show notes. But where can our listeners connect with you if they want to? Dori Braddell: They can get to me through my practice, Dory at the divorcementor.ca or of course through DCA at dca.ca at divorcecoachesacademy.com. Tracy Callahan: Yes, yes, yeah. LinkedIn, Dori Braddell: Or LinkedIn. LinkedIn. Tracy Callahan: LinkedIn, LinkedIn. Such I love LinkedIn. So Dori Braddell: Same. Tracy Callahan: Dory, really want to thank you so much for sharing this journey with us. Your story is about more than just a credential. It's really, really, really about when a professional community stops asking where somebody's training came from and starts asking what can they actually bring to the families? They serve. And what is it that we want to be providing of service to our clients? So for our listeners, a few things to take with you from today's conversation. Divorce coaching and collaborative practice share the same foundation. Dori Braddell: Absolutely the same foundation. Tracy Callahan: Interest-based negotiation, emotional regulation, and helping people move from positions to truly what matters. Right. And when those skills sit on the team, families are absolutely better supported, and conflict has less room to grow. Dori Braddell: Mm-hmm. Yeah. Tracy Callahan: Change in our field rarely happens all at once. It happens because someone builds relationships, does excellent work, and is willing to make the case. Sometimes for a year more. Until that door opens. And if you're a divorce coach who has felt like a unicorn in the room, Dory's story is a reminder that you belong there. You belong there. So yes, Dori Braddell: It's yes, we do. Tracy Callahan: you do. So for anyone interested in building the skills that made this pathway possible. Please feel free to check out our next ADRC ADR Divorce Coach Certification Cohort, which is going to begin in January 10th, 2027. We're gonna be starting a cohort in the US. We are also starting a cohort in Canada for January, and right alongside there as well, the Arabian Gulf and New Zealand and Australia. So 2027 is going to be a great start for a lot of people. We've had a lot of interest so far, and we're really, really throwing some flames up in Canada. We have been really, really excited about the interest and all the work that Dory is really doing in trailblazing not. We are the first ADR divorce coach certification training in Canada and really, really proud. And I think Edmonton Collaborative Prop. practice has really just echoed that. So Dory, thanks again. It is such such an honor to be sitting here. Congratulations. and genuinely appreciative for the work that you're doing in advancing the professional practice of divorce coaching. Dori Braddell: Thank you, Tracy, and for all your support getting me here. Couldn't have done it without ya. Tracy Callahan: together, together we did this. All right, everyone. Thank you so much for joining us at Divorce Coaches Academy Podcast. Please feel free to check us out at Divorce Coaches Academy dot com. Until next time.