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"Zelensky's Plea." · Pod Save America

• 0:21
  Speaker 1: Welcome to Pod Save America. I'm Jon Favreau.
• 0:23
  Speaker 2: I'm Dan Pfeiffer.
• 0:24
  Speaker 1: On today's show, President Biden announces more aid to Ukraine
• 0:27
  Speaker 1: after President Zelensky delivers an emotional plea to Congress. Donald
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: Trump may be facing some new political challenges on the
• 0:34
  Speaker 1: road to 2024. And progressive activists Amanda Butcher and Lucas
• 0:38
  Speaker 1: Meyer join us to talk about last week's wave of
• 0:41
  Speaker 1: New Hampshire school board victories that can teach Democrats how
• 0:44
  Speaker 1: to beat back the Republican culture wars. But first, we
• 0:48
  Speaker 1: have some exciting announcements about our upcoming tour. On April
• 0:53
  Speaker 1: 14th in Washington, D.C., our first show, we'll be joined
• 0:57
  Speaker 1: by guest co-host Simone Sanders and White House Press Secretary
• 1:00
  Speaker 1: Jen Psaki, comedian Mike Birbiglia, and more. And on April
• 1:05
  Speaker 1: 15th in Boston, we'll be joined by guest co-host Jane Koston,
• 1:09
  Speaker 1: Boston Mayor Michelle Wu, and more. There's also an incredible
• 1:13
  Speaker 1: lineup of the Love It or Leave It Live or
• 1:15
  Speaker 1: Else Tour. Love It will be joined by Damon Young
• 1:18
  Speaker 1: and Aparna Nanchurla in D.C., John Hodgman and Chanda Prescott-Weinstein
• 1:23
  Speaker 1: in Portland, Maine, and Vinnie Thomas, Ali Barthwell, Ashley Ray,
• 1:26
  Speaker 1: and Peter Sagal in Chicago. Tickets are now on sale
• 1:30
  Speaker 1: for these cities and more. Get your tickets at cricket.com
• 1:35
  Speaker 1: slash events. Dan, I think you have some exciting news
• 1:39
  Speaker 1: for us as well.
• 1:40
  Speaker 2: I do. Thank you for giving me the opportunity to
• 1:41
  Speaker 2: share it. So I have spent the last year writing
• 1:46
  Speaker 2: a book.
• 1:47
  Speaker 1: You're crazy.
• 1:50
  Speaker 2: You preempted me because I was going to say, if
• 1:52
  Speaker 2: you think writing a book during a pandemic with working
• 1:55
  Speaker 2: from home with two small, wonderful, but quite active children
• 1:58
  Speaker 2: is an insane move, you'd be correct. But I did
• 2:02
  Speaker 2: it because I ended up with an, even though I'd
• 2:04
  Speaker 2: foresworn book writing, I ended up with the opportunity to
• 2:06
  Speaker 2: write a book about what I think is the most
• 2:09
  Speaker 2: important issue in politics, something I spent most of my
• 2:11
  Speaker 2: career focused on, and something that I think is the
• 2:14
  Speaker 2: single biggest threat to democracy, the planet, everything that we
• 2:18
  Speaker 2: care about on this podcast, and that is right-wing disinformation
• 2:22
  Speaker 2: and propaganda. So Battling the Big Lie, how Fox, Facebook,
• 2:27
  Speaker 2: and the MAGA media are destroying America, comes out on
• 2:30
  Speaker 2: June 7th. Very subtle title. And it is about....
• 2:37
  Speaker 1: Tell us what you really think. Yes.
• 2:39
  Speaker 2: It is about how everyone from Roger Ailes to Steve Bannon,
• 2:45
  Speaker 2: with the help of Mark Zuckerberg and Donald Trump, have
• 2:48
  Speaker 2: built a massive messaging operation that I think is the
• 2:51
  Speaker 2: greatest weapon in American politics. I explain... where it came from,
• 2:55
  Speaker 2: how it works, who pays for it, and I think hopefully,
• 2:58
  Speaker 2: most importantly, what Democrats, the media, all of us, you, me,
• 3:04
  Speaker 2: everyone listening here can do to fight back against right-wing disinformation,
• 3:07
  Speaker 2: online trolls spreading hate, the Ben Shapiros, Steve Bannon's of
• 3:11
  Speaker 2: the world. Now, I will say that throughout the process,
• 3:16
  Speaker 2: in addition to people telling me that it was insane
• 3:18
  Speaker 2: to write a book under said circumstances. Many people unhelpfully
• 3:23
  Speaker 2: would point out to me that it was a bad
• 3:25
  Speaker 2: idea to write a book because there is a limited
• 3:27
  Speaker 2: audience for progressive books in the post-Trump era. I don't
• 3:31
  Speaker 2: know why people thought that was constructive to a man
• 3:33
  Speaker 2: trying to turn around.
• 3:35
  Speaker 1: Well, guess what? We have the power to change that.
• 3:37
  Speaker 2: That's exactly what I was going to say. And like,
• 3:39
  Speaker 2: there is real evidence that that has actually been true.
• 3:42
  Speaker 2: You know, if you look at the New York Times
• 3:43
  Speaker 2: bestseller list, all through 2021, it's like dominated by Ben
• 3:46
  Speaker 2: Shapiro and Tucker Carlson and Mark Levin and In just
• 3:51
  Speaker 2: like just today, the New York Times bestseller list was
• 3:54
  Speaker 2: announced that Bill Barr is number one on the list.
• 3:57
  Speaker 2: Just in who he kicked off, Peter Schweizer, who wrote
• 3:59
  Speaker 2: Clinton Cash with Steve Bannon's help in 2016. Gross. Yeah,
• 4:03
  Speaker 2: it's disgusting. It's really a who's who of all the
• 4:05
  Speaker 2: worst people in America. And while I would love to
• 4:10
  Speaker 2: prove all those people wrong for all the obvious self-interested
• 4:12
  Speaker 2: reasons of selling the book I wrote, that skepticism among
• 4:17
  Speaker 2: the book public about The audience, you know, whether people
• 4:21
  Speaker 2: listen to Ponce of America or watch MNC or elsewhere
• 4:23
  Speaker 2: are still buying books, makes pre-orders all the more important
• 4:27
  Speaker 2: because it's the only way to demonstrate to these bookstores
• 4:29
  Speaker 2: and these services that there's an audience and therefore they'll
• 4:33
  Speaker 2: stock the book. They'll buy more books. They'll display the book.
• 4:35
  Speaker 2: They will advertise the book. They will offer discounts to readers, right?
• 4:38
  Speaker 2: They're doing that for all the right-wing books. Like, as
• 4:41
  Speaker 2: an example, Kellyanne Conway of Alternative Facts fame, which is
• 4:45
  Speaker 2: very fitting given the topic of this book, has a
• 4:48
  Speaker 2: book coming out. two weeks before mine. And it is
• 4:51
  Speaker 2: promoted everywhere. It's got discounts. It's easy to find on Amazon.
• 4:55
  Speaker 2: And so I need all the help I can get
• 4:56
  Speaker 2: to get as many pre-orders as possible to be on
• 5:01
  Speaker 2: equal-ish footing, because I would love to sell as many
• 5:05
  Speaker 2: books as Kellyanne Conway. No one thinks it's possible. Maybe
• 5:07
  Speaker 2: it's not, but I sure as hell have to try.
• 5:09
  Speaker 2: And if that is not desperate enough, because I am
• 5:12
  Speaker 2: a desperate man, I will send a signed book plate
• 5:15
  Speaker 2: to anyone who pre-orders the book.
• 5:18
  Speaker 1: You know what? Up until just now, I was all
• 5:23
  Speaker 1: set to go pre-order Kellyanne Conway's book. But now I'm changing.
• 5:27
  Speaker 1: I'm changing my mind. See? And I'm going to pre-order
• 5:29
  Speaker 1: your book. It was the signed nameplate that finally put
• 5:32
  Speaker 1: it over the edge for me. And your desperate plea
• 5:36
  Speaker 1: that the one thing you want in life is to
• 5:37
  Speaker 1: sell as many books as Kellyanne Conway.
• 5:40
  Speaker 2: Well, John, you're providing a perfect example here for a
• 5:43
  Speaker 2: thing we talk about on this podcast, which is not
• 5:45
  Speaker 2: all about motivating the base. It's also about persuasion. So
• 5:48
  Speaker 2: I have just persuaded one voter.
• 5:50
  Speaker 1: I was a swing voter.
• 5:51
  Speaker 2: Yeah, you're a swing book buyer. And so go to battlingthebiglie.com,
• 5:57
  Speaker 2: upload your proof of purchase, give us your name and address.
• 6:00
  Speaker 2: I hope to sign so many book plates that I
• 6:02
  Speaker 2: do this podcast with a cast on in a few
• 6:05
  Speaker 2: weeks or a few months, I guess. So anyway, thank
• 6:08
  Speaker 2: you for listening to my biannual ritual of awkward book pitches,
• 6:12
  Speaker 2: but I hope everyone buys the book. enjoys the book,
• 6:15
  Speaker 2: finds it useful. And if you are willing to do
• 6:19
  Speaker 2: so and help spread the word by posting on social media,
• 6:21
  Speaker 2: I'd be very, very grateful. So thank you. End of pitch.
• 6:24
  Speaker 1: Go pre-order Dan's book. What's the website again?
• 6:29
  Speaker 2: Well, if you want to upload, you can get it
• 6:32
  Speaker 2: at Amazon or Barnes & Noble or even better, Bookshop
• 6:36
  Speaker 2: and IndieBound for local independent bookstores. But if you want
• 6:39
  Speaker 2: to upload your proof of purchase, it's battlingthebiglie.com. There are
• 6:43
  Speaker 2: also links to buy everything.
• 6:44
  Speaker 1: Battlingthebiglie.com. Remember it. All right, let's get to the news.
• 6:51
  Speaker 1: President Joe Biden called Vladimir Putin a war criminal and
• 6:53
  Speaker 1: announced $ 800 million more in aid for Ukraine after President
• 6:57
  Speaker 1: Vladimir Zelensky urged the United States to do more to
• 7:00
  Speaker 1: help stop Russia's invasion during an incredibly moving speech to
• 7:03
  Speaker 1: Congress on Wednesday. The package will include anti-aircraft systems and drones,
• 7:09
  Speaker 1: but not the fighter jets or the no-fly zone requested
• 7:11
  Speaker 1: by Zelensky. which some Republicans in Congress are using as
• 7:14
  Speaker 1: an excuse to attack Biden as being weak on Russia,
• 7:18
  Speaker 1: even though many of them voted against aid to Ukraine
• 7:20
  Speaker 1: just last week. Still, as Putin continues to massacre civilians,
• 7:26
  Speaker 1: including children, pregnant women, hospital patients, it was hard to
• 7:30
  Speaker 1: listen to Zelensky's emotional speech and not share his sense
• 7:34
  Speaker 1: of urgency and frustration. Here's a clip.
• 7:36
  Speaker 3: This in your country doesn't depend anymore only on you.
• 7:42
  Speaker 1: And your people.
• 7:43
  Speaker 3: It depends on those next to you, on those who
• 7:47
  Speaker 3: are strong. Strong doesn't mean weak. Strong is brave and
• 7:53
  Speaker 3: ready to fight for the life of his citizens and
• 7:56
  Speaker 3: citizens of the world. And as the leader of my nation,
• 8:02
  Speaker 3: I am addressing President Biden. You are the leader of
• 8:08
  Speaker 3: the nation, of.
• 8:10
  Speaker 1: Your great nation.
• 8:12
  Speaker 3: I wish you to be the leader of the world.
• 8:17
  Speaker 3: Being the leader of the world means to be the
• 8:21
  Speaker 3: leader of peace.
• 8:23
  Speaker 1: What effect do you think Zelensky's speech will have on U.S.
• 8:27
  Speaker 1: policy toward Ukraine and U.S. politics?
• 8:33
  Speaker 2: The policy question is most certainly better answered by Tommy,
• 8:36
  Speaker 2: if he were here, than I can answer it. But
• 8:38
  Speaker 2: it seems like the... Biden administration is doing everything that
• 8:42
  Speaker 2: it can without crossing a few very important thresholds they
• 8:47
  Speaker 2: have that they feel might trigger a direct conflict with Russia.
• 8:51
  Speaker 2: I mean, I think just if you take a step
• 8:52
  Speaker 2: back from the impact of it in the history of
• 8:55
  Speaker 2: the United States Congress, that's one of the most dramatic
• 8:58
  Speaker 2: emotional speeches ever given to Congress. The context, the leader
• 9:02
  Speaker 2: from a bunker in the middle of a war making
• 9:05
  Speaker 2: a direct plea to Congress and the president for assistance
• 9:08
  Speaker 2: is incredibly powerful. And I think it will continue to
• 9:12
  Speaker 2: you know, push forward the urgency and unity that has
• 9:14
  Speaker 2: been behind supporting the Ukrainian people, both in Congress and America.
• 9:17
  Speaker 2: I do, where I think the politics is going to
• 9:19
  Speaker 2: come in here is it is going to embolden the
• 9:22
  Speaker 2: people who are pushing Biden to do more. And some
• 9:27
  Speaker 2: people are pushing him to do more in good faith,
• 9:30
  Speaker 2: and others are doing in bad faith. But it creates
• 9:32
  Speaker 2: a context for them to do that, where Biden's going to,
• 9:35
  Speaker 2: it sort of ends up being the bulwark against, quote unquote,
• 9:37
  Speaker 2: more to help people, particularly in the with the backdrop
• 9:40
  Speaker 2: of all the horrible war crimes being committed by the
• 9:43
  Speaker 2: Russians and the tragedy that Zelensky talked about and showed
• 9:45
  Speaker 2: us and we're seeing on the news every day.
• 9:46
  Speaker 1: Yeah, I thought it was an incredible speech. I do
• 9:50
  Speaker 1: want to talk about the speech just for a second.
• 9:53
  Speaker 1: I realize there's been a lot of focus on Zelensky
• 9:57
  Speaker 1: as a messenger and stagecraft and that kind seem maybe
• 10:01
  Speaker 1: a little weird in a time of war to be
• 10:04
  Speaker 1: focusing on stagecraft. But I think politics, even in war,
• 10:09
  Speaker 1: maybe especially in war, is fundamentally about persuading other people.
• 10:13
  Speaker 1: And in this case, you have a leader who who's
• 10:16
  Speaker 1: watching a foreign army destroy his country and murder his people,
• 10:21
  Speaker 1: literally begging for help and trying to persuade a bunch
• 10:25
  Speaker 1: of American politicians and the rest of us that we
• 10:28
  Speaker 1: should do more to help. And so what does he
• 10:30
  Speaker 1: do in a speech? He appeals to our common humanity.
• 10:33
  Speaker 1: He had a very moving video and traumatic video that
• 10:38
  Speaker 1: he showed during the speech. that showed scenes of families
• 10:43
  Speaker 1: playing in Ukraine that look familiar to us before also
• 10:47
  Speaker 1: showing the horrors of war juxtaposed right next to those scenes.
• 10:51
  Speaker 1: He appealed to American values, to our history, to our
• 10:54
  Speaker 1: belief in democracy. He quoted Martin Luther King's I Have
• 10:57
  Speaker 1: a Dream speech. He talked about 9-11. He talked about
• 10:59
  Speaker 1: Pearl Harbor. He used some justifiable fear and outrage and
• 11:03
  Speaker 1: directly challenged our conscience. But I think he did it
• 11:07
  Speaker 1: all in a respectful, almost aspirational way especially when he
• 11:12
  Speaker 1: said to Biden at the end from that clip that
• 11:14
  Speaker 1: we just played, you know, you are the leader of
• 11:16
  Speaker 1: your great nation. I wish you to be the leader
• 11:18
  Speaker 1: of the world. Being leader of the world means to
• 11:21
  Speaker 1: be the leader of peace. So I thought it was
• 11:25
  Speaker 1: an incredibly effective speech. And if I were Vladimir Zelensky
• 11:28
  Speaker 1: or if I was someone in Ukraine, I'd want him
• 11:30
  Speaker 1: to give that speech and I'd want him to push
• 11:32
  Speaker 1: as hard as he possibly can for the United States
• 11:35
  Speaker 1: and the rest of the world to do more. That's
• 11:37
  Speaker 1: his role, Zelensky's role. And he's fulfilling that role impeccably,
• 11:42
  Speaker 1: I think. Back to the United States, you know, the
• 11:44
  Speaker 1: bipartisan opposition to a no-fly zone, which is shared by
• 11:48
  Speaker 1: our NATO allies, seems to be holding up, even after
• 11:51
  Speaker 1: this speech. But there is, as you mentioned, growing pressure
• 11:54
  Speaker 1: on Biden to send the Ukrainians jets and to draw
• 11:57
  Speaker 1: some kind of a red line in case Putin uses
• 12:00
  Speaker 1: weapons of mass destruction, whether they be chemical, biological, or
• 12:04
  Speaker 1: tactical and nuclear weapons. Why do you think Biden's been
• 12:07
  Speaker 1: resisting that pressure so far?
• 12:09
  Speaker 2: Because he believes, and I think a lot of people, Frankly,
• 12:12
  Speaker 2: on both sides of the aisle, I agree that doing
• 12:14
  Speaker 2: either of those things make it much more likely that
• 12:16
  Speaker 2: the United States and NATO end up in a direct
• 12:18
  Speaker 2: war with Russia. And for as incredibly important as it
• 12:22
  Speaker 2: is to stop Vladimir Putin's aggression, both from a humanitarian
• 12:25
  Speaker 2: point of view, a geopolitical point of view, President Biden
• 12:29
  Speaker 2: has come to the conclusion, and I think most people
• 12:32
  Speaker 2: would agree that it is not in the United States'
• 12:33
  Speaker 2: interest to be in World War III or a direct
• 12:36
  Speaker 2: conflict with a nuclear power run by a madman. And
• 12:40
  Speaker 2: so that is a deeply uncomfortable position for President Biden
• 12:43
  Speaker 2: to be in. President Obama was in it as released
• 12:46
  Speaker 2: to Syria, where you are the bulwark against a huge,
• 12:49
  Speaker 2: in many cases, bipartisan cry for people to do more
• 12:52
  Speaker 2: while horrendous things are happening around the world, that you
• 12:55
  Speaker 2: have to make a decision about what is best for
• 12:58
  Speaker 2: the United States. And it is very unsatisfactory for everyone involved,
• 13:03
  Speaker 2: I'm sure, especially President Biden, who had to listen to
• 13:05
  Speaker 2: that and want to do more, but he's got to
• 13:07
  Speaker 2: make a decision and that, and he is the one
• 13:09
  Speaker 2: accountable for what happens. He's the one who sends troops
• 13:12
  Speaker 2: into battle. And so that is where we stand.
• 13:17
  Speaker 1: Yeah. I mean, look, we know this, so Ben knows it, uh,
• 13:22
  Speaker 1: even more like when you're sitting in the white house
• 13:26
  Speaker 1: and you're making these foreign policy, national security decisions, Everyone
• 13:31
  Speaker 1: outside the White House is a genius, has great ideas,
• 13:36
  Speaker 1: thinks things are easier than they are. And when you're
• 13:40
  Speaker 1: in the White House, especially when you're Joe Biden, you
• 13:45
  Speaker 1: have to make decisions and there's no easy decision here.
• 13:49
  Speaker 1: Whatever you choose to do is not without risk and
• 13:53
  Speaker 1: not without plenty of drawbacks. And so and you have
• 13:57
  Speaker 1: to live with the decision that you make. And sometimes
• 13:59
  Speaker 1: when you make a decision and when you make a decision,
• 14:02
  Speaker 1: it's not reversible. Once you escalate, you don't know where
• 14:05
  Speaker 1: that escalation is going to go. And so I think
• 14:07
  Speaker 1: the reason he probably has not drawn a red line
• 14:11
  Speaker 1: on certain things is you don't want to box yourself
• 14:13
  Speaker 1: into a situation where you have to escalate, particularly when
• 14:16
  Speaker 1: one side has nuclear weapons. And, you know, Dan Balls
• 14:19
  Speaker 1: in The Washington Post wrote a great piece about Zelensky's
• 14:22
  Speaker 1: speech where he talked about Zelensky's role, as I just did.
• 14:26
  Speaker 1: And then also talked about how Biden has a different
• 14:28
  Speaker 1: role than Zelensky. Biden has to keep NATO together. He
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: has to keep the rest of the world united or
• 14:34
  Speaker 1: most of the rest of the world. And he has to,
• 14:37
  Speaker 1: most importantly, keep us out of a nuclear war that could,
• 14:40
  Speaker 1: you know, destroy humanity. I mean, the video that Zelensky
• 14:45
  Speaker 1: showed was incredibly powerful and moving. And I was crying
• 14:49
  Speaker 1: watching it myself, you know. There's another video that's powerful,
• 14:52
  Speaker 1: which is Max Fisher at the New York Times wrote
• 14:54
  Speaker 1: a piece about the chances of nuclear war and how
• 14:57
  Speaker 1: a lot of experts are saying, you know, they're low,
• 15:00
  Speaker 1: but they're not zero right now. And he linked to
• 15:05
  Speaker 1: a simulation that some experts at Princeton did. There's like
• 15:08
  Speaker 1: a four minute video that shows what might happen if
• 15:10
  Speaker 1: Russia launches even a nuclear warning strike, just to show
• 15:15
  Speaker 1: that they could do it, just a small, you know,
• 15:17
  Speaker 1: and you can see how things, how it sets off
• 15:21
  Speaker 1: the United States, NATO, and suddenly you have 90 million
• 15:25
  Speaker 1: people dead all around the world because these things escalate
• 15:29
  Speaker 1: beyond control. And so it's difficult because as heart-wrenching as
• 15:34
  Speaker 1: the images are that we see on television right now,
• 15:38
  Speaker 1: and as much as we want to do more to
• 15:41
  Speaker 1: stop this war, in the front of our mind, we
• 15:44
  Speaker 1: have to just remember the fact that Vladimir Putin is
• 15:47
  Speaker 1: sitting on the world's largest supply of nuclear weapons and
• 15:50
  Speaker 1: could be in some fucking bunker somewhere in Russia and
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: decide that whether it's the transfer of planes, whether it
• 15:57
  Speaker 1: seems like NATO is going to invade, whatever it may
• 15:59
  Speaker 1: seem like he may put his finger on the trigger
• 16:01
  Speaker 1: and start something that no one is going to be
• 16:03
  Speaker 1: able to stop. And that's very scary, but that's, I
• 16:06
  Speaker 1: think what's going through Joe Biden's mind and the administration's
• 16:08
  Speaker 1: mind and no amount of sort of pressure from the
• 16:13
  Speaker 1: media or Republicans or anyone else, um, is going to
• 16:17
  Speaker 1: change the fact that they have to make that calculation
• 16:19
  Speaker 1: about the risks of nuclear war.
• 16:22
  Speaker 2: And there are people, many people in Congress who are
• 16:26
  Speaker 2: very thoughtful about these issues, who try to approach it
• 16:28
  Speaker 2: from an incredibly responsible point of view. We hear a
• 16:31
  Speaker 2: lot of them about how to save the world all
• 16:32
  Speaker 2: the time. Elizabeth Warren, who was very thoughtful on this
• 16:35
  Speaker 2: when I spoke to her about it last week on
• 16:36
  Speaker 2: our podcast. But a lot of people in Congress just
• 16:39
  Speaker 2: want to say what they want to say and not
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: have to hold any accountability for decision-making. There's not, they're not,
• 16:44
  Speaker 2: they don't want to vote on it. There's a reason
• 16:46
  Speaker 2: that the, we passed two authorizations for using military force
• 16:51
  Speaker 2: 20 years ago and just let them run out and
• 16:52
  Speaker 2: use them as an excuse for military conflict, basically anywhere
• 16:56
  Speaker 2: in the world, because no one wants to vote for it.
• 16:58
  Speaker 2: They don't want to vote to repeal it. They don't
• 16:59
  Speaker 2: want to, you could, if you think you should do more,
• 17:02
  Speaker 2: you can, you can bring a bill up and you
• 17:04
  Speaker 2: can vote for it. And they don't want to do that.
• 17:05
  Speaker 2: They want to be in a position of maximal opportunity
• 17:08
  Speaker 2: to criticize Joe Biden if it goes, something goes wrong.
• 17:12
  Speaker 1: That's right. polls show that Americans are almost completely united
• 17:15
  Speaker 1: in their support of Ukraine. Healthy majority support sending foreign aid,
• 17:20
  Speaker 1: which is relatively unusual for the American public. How long
• 17:22
  Speaker 1: do you think that support lasts?
• 17:25
  Speaker 2: You know, I'm really fascinated by the unity here and
• 17:28
  Speaker 2: the amount of engagement with the story. People are paying
• 17:30
  Speaker 2: incredibly close attention, which is just, it's incredibly unusual. It
• 17:34
  Speaker 2: runs against recent history about how much the public pays
• 17:37
  Speaker 2: attention to foreign policy, particularly when US troops are not involved.
• 17:42
  Speaker 2: And I've just been very curious about what is driving that. Obviously,
• 17:46
  Speaker 2: this is a very compelling story. There's a lot of
• 17:48
  Speaker 2: history in our country about Russia and Russia aggression and
• 17:51
  Speaker 2: how to think about it. And Putin is this person
• 17:53
  Speaker 2: who has been sort of, I think, probably incorrectly and
• 17:56
  Speaker 2: dangerously so inflated as some sort of master strategist on
• 18:00
  Speaker 2: the world stage by a lot of Republicans in the
• 18:03
  Speaker 2: US media. But the unity, I do think that there
• 18:07
  Speaker 2: is something here where and maybe I'm being naive about this,
• 18:10
  Speaker 2: but where the US public is sort of yearning after
• 18:12
  Speaker 2: everything that we've been through the last few years, yearning
• 18:14
  Speaker 2: for something to have common cause for, where we can
• 18:17
  Speaker 2: all get together and be for this. So I think
• 18:20
  Speaker 2: the unity is going to last for a while. What
• 18:21
  Speaker 2: I worry about is the urgency. What happens when people
• 18:26
  Speaker 2: stop paying attention, the news moves on, just today when
• 18:31
  Speaker 2: people hear this, there will be the NCAA tournament starts,
• 18:34
  Speaker 2: a huge cultural sports moment in America. Fewer people will
• 18:37
  Speaker 2: watch cable news today than watched it yesterday. And that'll
• 18:40
  Speaker 2: be true for the next few weeks. So what happens
• 18:41
  Speaker 2: when the spotlight goes away? Because all the people who
• 18:44
  Speaker 2: would normally be troublemakers on stopping some of this aid
• 18:49
  Speaker 2: and other things aren't doing it now because of the spotlight.
• 18:53
  Speaker 2: But when the spotlight goes away, it's going to get
• 18:55
  Speaker 2: much harder for Congress to act, to provide humanitarian and
• 18:58
  Speaker 2: military assistance to Ukraine. And fewer Americans will feel compelled
• 19:03
  Speaker 2: or be reminded to donate to humanitarian efforts and charities
• 19:07
  Speaker 2: and other things that are helping Ukrainian refugees and the
• 19:09
  Speaker 2: Ukrainian people. And so I worry about the urgency because of,
• 19:12
  Speaker 2: as is the topic of your other podcast, your side gig,
• 19:15
  Speaker 2: your side pod is the short attention span in America.
• 19:20
  Speaker 1: Well, speaking of that, I mean, I think one of
• 19:22
  Speaker 1: the reasons everyone's so united is because this war is
• 19:27
  Speaker 1: being fought on social media because people are seeing images
• 19:32
  Speaker 1: of what's happening in Ukraine on the ground, not just
• 19:34
  Speaker 1: from cable news, but on TikTok, on their phones, on Twitter,
• 19:39
  Speaker 1: on every kind of platform. They're watching this unfold. And
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: it is in a world that is very complicated and
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: divided and disagrees on a whole bunch of different issues,
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: especially here in the United States. Vladimir Putin is a villain.
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: And he is as close to pure evil as you
• 19:58
  Speaker 1: can get right now. And the whole world can see it,
• 20:02
  Speaker 1: that this man is murdering civilians. He's murdering children. And
• 20:09
  Speaker 1: everyone's watching it happen. And for all that Vladimir Putin
• 20:12
  Speaker 1: has done over the last decade to, you know, to
• 20:16
  Speaker 1: spread disinformation and to fight information wars and to try
• 20:21
  Speaker 1: to get people to believe one thing or the other,
• 20:23
  Speaker 1: everyone sees what he's doing right now. No one is confused.
• 20:27
  Speaker 1: As you know, there's like Tucker Carlson and people like that.
• 20:29
  Speaker 1: Very few people are confused, except the people buying into
• 20:33
  Speaker 1: his propaganda at home because he's still uh, has control of,
• 20:37
  Speaker 1: you know, a lot of propaganda channels in Russia and
• 20:39
  Speaker 1: of course in some other places around the world as well.
• 20:41
  Speaker 1: But there is enormous unity because what is happening is
• 20:45
  Speaker 1: pure evil and everyone's watching it. And, but you're right.
• 20:48
  Speaker 1: Like how long, how long does that last? And can
• 20:51
  Speaker 1: we find an off ramp here? Um, before, uh, before
• 20:56
  Speaker 1: things get worse, I think is the, is the big
• 20:58
  Speaker 1: question now. Um, some Republicans are of course using all
• 21:01
  Speaker 1: of this as an opportunity to attack Biden and Mitch
• 21:03
  Speaker 1: McConnell said the president needs to, quote, step up his
• 21:06
  Speaker 1: game and that, quote, we're not doing nearly enough. And
• 21:10
  Speaker 1: Congressman Mike Rogers said that he hopes Zelensky speech, quote,
• 21:12
  Speaker 1: moves that senile devil we got in the White House.
• 21:18
  Speaker 1: The fuck?
• 21:18
  Speaker 2: It's just like, fuck these people, right?
• 21:20
  Speaker 1: And, you know, and then fucking, you know, I didn't
• 21:22
  Speaker 1: even want to bring it up. And then, like, Playbook
• 21:24
  Speaker 1: this morning is like, well, the Republicans are certainly out
• 21:28
  Speaker 1: hawking the Democrats on this one. Because, you know, there's
• 21:31
  Speaker 1: this you see this in the media, too, and some
• 21:33
  Speaker 1: of it's some of it's well intentioned. And, you know,
• 21:35
  Speaker 1: Tommy Bennett talked about this, especially with foreign correspondents were
• 21:38
  Speaker 1: reporting from a war torn country. You see you see
• 21:42
  Speaker 1: this carnage, you become emotional and you have a good
• 21:46
  Speaker 1: intention to want the United States to do more. I
• 21:48
  Speaker 1: get that. And then there's sort of the D.C. blobbish
• 21:50
  Speaker 1: folks and some folks in the media who are just
• 21:54
  Speaker 1: like treating. escalation and the push for more war as
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: you would any other political conflict between the parties, which
• 22:01
  Speaker 1: just is sort of gross to me, but so be it.
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: How should the White House and Democrats handle those attacks?
• 22:09
  Speaker 2: I think the attack from McConnell was interesting. Now, obviously,
• 22:11
  Speaker 2: if McConnell thought it was in his political interest to
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: attack Biden for doing too much, he would do that
• 22:16
  Speaker 2: and he may do that tomorrow. Just turn around on
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: a dime and do it because he is the human
• 22:20
  Speaker 2: embodiment of cynicism. But I think the fact that McConnell
• 22:23
  Speaker 2: is making the attack sort of gets to something that
• 22:26
  Speaker 2: Celinda Lake, the pollster who was on our podcast a
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: few weeks ago, hinted at from her focus groups about
• 22:30
  Speaker 2: this was that– and it sort of dovetails with, I think,
• 22:33
  Speaker 2: some of the rumors and scuttlebutt. You and I have
• 22:36
  Speaker 2: heard about internal Democratic focus groups and polling in recent
• 22:39
  Speaker 2: weeks is that although Biden's approval numbers are up a
• 22:42
  Speaker 2: little bit, they're not all the way back to where
• 22:43
  Speaker 2: they were. Democrats have some optimism because they're seeing movement
• 22:48
  Speaker 2: and some of the underlying attributes about Biden's strength, his
• 22:50
  Speaker 2: ability to manage a crisis because he is– they see
• 22:53
  Speaker 2: him astride on the world stage, managing our allies, bringing
• 22:57
  Speaker 2: a united front. Even if the violence has not stopped
• 23:02
  Speaker 2: in Ukraine or the invasion has not stopped, I think
• 23:04
  Speaker 2: people have a sense that he's doing everything he can
• 23:06
  Speaker 2: short of bringing America to war, which they most definitely
• 23:08
  Speaker 2: do not support. Sorry, playbook. And in the Republican– political
• 23:15
  Speaker 2: strategy is distilled in its, you know, most basic form
• 23:20
  Speaker 2: is hope the world burns and then try to convince
• 23:22
  Speaker 2: everyone that Joe Biden is too old and tired to
• 23:24
  Speaker 2: put out the fire. And right now he looks like
• 23:26
  Speaker 2: someone who can manage a crisis and that, that creates
• 23:30
  Speaker 2: a threat. So now you have them trying to, you know,
• 23:32
  Speaker 2: sort of readjust to this new, this, you know, sort
• 23:36
  Speaker 2: of new or reemerging impressions of Biden, I think.
• 23:40
  Speaker 1: But also, you know, the undying support for Ukraine here
• 23:44
  Speaker 1: from these Republicans in Congress. These were the people who
• 23:47
  Speaker 1: let the guy off, who extorted Zelensky just a few
• 23:50
  Speaker 1: years ago when he needed military assistance to fend off
• 23:54
  Speaker 1: the Russians. And, you know, I'm sure, you know, a
• 23:57
  Speaker 1: lot of them now say, oh, whatever. Trump eventually gave
• 24:00
  Speaker 1: him the military assistance, right? Yeah. What was the rush, right? Yeah.
• 24:04
  Speaker 1: Trump eventually gave him the military assistance he desperately needed
• 24:07
  Speaker 1: to fend off the Russians. Like, The guy was begging
• 24:09
  Speaker 1: for help, and the only reason he didn't get it
• 24:11
  Speaker 1: from Donald Trump is because Donald Trump wanted to force
• 24:14
  Speaker 1: him to make up a smear against Joe Biden so
• 24:18
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump could win an election. But now Biden isn't
• 24:21
  Speaker 1: doing enough for Ukraine. Yeah, sure. Now, that's really believable,
• 24:24
  Speaker 1: and all these Republicans don't think he's doing enough. Just
• 24:27
  Speaker 1: let Donald Trump get away with extorting this man who
• 24:32
  Speaker 1: spoke to Congress when he needed our assistance to help
• 24:35
  Speaker 1: fight Russia. That's the Republican Party.
• 24:36
  Speaker 2: And don't forget, they smeared Ukraine. To suggest that Ukraine
• 24:40
  Speaker 2: was the ones who were the ones who actually got
• 24:42
  Speaker 2: involved in the 2016 election to defeat Donald Trump. And
• 24:45
  Speaker 2: they were hiding a server. I mean, like the amount
• 24:48
  Speaker 2: is just the amount of just absolute shameless cynicism is
• 24:51
  Speaker 2: not obviously not surprising, but it is quite apparent.
• 24:54
  Speaker 1: And a bunch of them and a bunch of them
• 24:55
  Speaker 1: just voted against assistance last week. And some of them
• 24:59
  Speaker 1: have been saying shit on right wing media that Russians
• 25:03
  Speaker 1: have been using as propaganda on their own state TV channels.
• 25:07
  Speaker 1: That's what Republicans are doing right now. Speaking of Donald Trump,
• 25:19
  Speaker 1: he made some completely unsurprising news this week by effectively
• 25:22
  Speaker 1: ruling out Mike Pence as a 2024 running mate. During
• 25:26
  Speaker 1: an interview with the Washington Examiner, Trump said, quote, I
• 25:29
  Speaker 1: don't think the people would accept it. Mike and I
• 25:32
  Speaker 1: had a great relationship, except for the very important factor
• 25:35
  Speaker 1: that took place at the end. A reference to Pence
• 25:39
  Speaker 1: refusing to overturn the election after Trump supporters threatened to
• 25:43
  Speaker 1: hang him. Are you shocked, Dan, that Trump has ruled
• 25:47
  Speaker 1: out Pence?
• 25:48
  Speaker 2: I mean, look, Trump seems like a guy who could
• 25:50
  Speaker 2: look at the full balance of their five or so
• 25:52
  Speaker 2: years together, look at the good and the bad, maybe
• 25:55
  Speaker 2: overlook Pence's unwillingness to involve himself in a ham-handed criminal
• 26:00
  Speaker 2: conspiracy-stealed election and try to rekindle the magic. So, yeah,
• 26:04
  Speaker 2: I'm shocked. My question is, do you think Mike Pence
• 26:07
  Speaker 2: would have accepted it if it had been offered?
• 26:12
  Speaker 1: You know... That's a great question. I don't think so.
• 26:16
  Speaker 2: I think yes.
• 26:17
  Speaker 1: I can't say. Yeah, I was going to say you
• 26:18
  Speaker 1: can't say you can't say no for sure.
• 26:20
  Speaker 2: I mean, he would. Look, he's he's a man of integrity.
• 26:22
  Speaker 2: He is a Ronald Reagan Hall of Presidents kind of guy.
• 26:27
  Speaker 2: And he would he would demand a handshake agreement from
• 26:31
  Speaker 2: Trump against further attempts at murder. And then he'd be
• 26:34
  Speaker 2: back on the table.
• 26:34
  Speaker 1: Please do whatever you can to prevent our supporters from
• 26:37
  Speaker 1: trying to hang me again. That's the that's the deal.
• 26:39
  Speaker 1: That's the shake, the handshake deal. I just love that.
• 26:42
  Speaker 1: Great relationship, except for the very important factor that took place.
• 26:46
  Speaker 1: We're just sort of yada yada-ing the whole hanging thing
• 26:51
  Speaker 1: and the overturning of the election. Yeah, it's no big deal.
• 26:55
  Speaker 1: So I think the real question raised by this interview is,
• 26:57
  Speaker 1: how much does it really matter who Trump might want
• 26:59
  Speaker 1: as a potential running mate? Washington Post reporter Aaron Blake
• 27:02
  Speaker 1: pointed out this week that in poll after poll, Republicans
• 27:05
  Speaker 1: are leading Democrats in the generic midterm ballots. by a
• 27:09
  Speaker 1: lot more than Trump is leading Biden in a 2024 rematch.
• 27:13
  Speaker 1: The former president's potential Republican rivals might be sensing weakness.
• 27:17
  Speaker 1: Politico reports that in recent weeks, Pence, Tom Cotton, and
• 27:19
  Speaker 1: Ron DeSantis have, quote, prodded at or even outright criticized
• 27:23
  Speaker 1: Trump from the right on issues like crime, COVID, and Russia. Meanwhile,
• 27:29
  Speaker 1: some of Trump's 2022 Senate endorsements aren't doing so hot.
• 27:33
  Speaker 1: Trump just said he might unendorse Alabama's Mo Brooks. Georgia's
• 27:37
  Speaker 1: Herschel Walker said this week that he doesn't believe in
• 27:39
  Speaker 1: evolution or IVF. And here's a recent New York Times
• 27:44
  Speaker 1: headline about Mike Gibbons, the frontrunner in Ohio who Trump
• 27:48
  Speaker 1: met with at Mar-a-Lago this week. Quote, Republican in Ohio
• 27:51
  Speaker 1: Senate primaries spoke offensively about Asians. Wonderful. A lot to
• 27:56
  Speaker 1: unpack here. Let's start with these polls that show generic
• 27:58
  Speaker 1: Republican midterm candidates outrunning Trump. What do you make of that?
• 28:02
  Speaker 1: Is it possible that Trump's not as popular as everyone,
• 28:06
  Speaker 1: including Trump, Thinks he is.
• 28:08
  Speaker 2: Well, I think we should start with a couple of
• 28:10
  Speaker 2: caveats to this because no segment about Trump Being doomed
• 28:14
  Speaker 2: to fail has ever aged poorly. So I mean the
• 28:18
  Speaker 2: first is there is an out-of-sight out-of-mind thing happening with
• 28:21
  Speaker 2: Trump where you know the Democratic side For like soft
• 28:24
  Speaker 2: Democrats or independents. They are not constantly reminded by they
• 28:26
  Speaker 2: hate Trump and so that's probably helping Republicans in some
• 28:29
  Speaker 2: generic polls and on the Republican side They are not
• 28:32
  Speaker 2: being reminded why they like Trump or love Trump or
• 28:35
  Speaker 2: were willing to go along with Trump. And so that's
• 28:38
  Speaker 2: probably hurting Trump on some of these numbers in these
• 28:41
  Speaker 2: early primary polls or other things. But there is a
• 28:44
  Speaker 2: very interesting number in the Wall Street Journal poll, which
• 28:47
  Speaker 2: is that 15% of U.S. voters say they don't like
• 28:50
  Speaker 2: Biden or Trump. These voters prefer Biden by 12 points
• 28:54
  Speaker 2: over Trump if they were to run against each other
• 28:56
  Speaker 2: in 2024. But they are picking Republicans by 13 points
• 28:59
  Speaker 2: in the generic ballot for this year. And we saw
• 29:01
  Speaker 2: something very similar in 2018, where there were a bunch
• 29:03
  Speaker 2: of voters who switched from Trump to Democrats in the
• 29:10
  Speaker 2: 2018 midterms. But then 75% of them, according to some studies,
• 29:14
  Speaker 2: went back and voted for Trump in 2020. So this
• 29:17
  Speaker 2: is not a super unusual dynamic. But I do think
• 29:21
  Speaker 2: that there is something here where Republicans are sort of
• 29:23
  Speaker 2: seeing that Trump is absent. The MAGA movement in the
• 29:28
  Speaker 2: Republican Party is stronger than it was at any point
• 29:30
  Speaker 2: in which Trump was in office or as a Republican leader.
• 29:35
  Speaker 2: And so there was ability to sort of have Trumpism
• 29:37
  Speaker 2: without Trump. and that may be appealing to some number
• 29:41
  Speaker 2: of voters.
• 29:43
  Speaker 1: And again, I think maybe the most important thing here
• 29:46
  Speaker 1: is these polls may be showing general election weakness for Trump,
• 29:51
  Speaker 1: but they're not showing primary weakness in a Republican primary.
• 29:55
  Speaker 1: And that's what matters most of all. I also think,
• 29:57
  Speaker 1: by the way, these polls may be missing the Trump
• 30:00
  Speaker 1: supporters who come out into presidential and don't answer pollsters calls.
• 30:04
  Speaker 1: We have not fixed that fucking problem yet. Just sort
• 30:08
  Speaker 1: of happened in 2020. Everyone's just, oh yeah, that happened.
• 30:11
  Speaker 1: And now we're just sort of moving on like it
• 30:13
  Speaker 1: never happened. But that's always in the back of my mind.
• 30:16
  Speaker 1: So look, I do think that group of voters that
• 30:19
  Speaker 1: you point out is a critical group of voters, right?
• 30:22
  Speaker 1: In a world where a lot of people tend to
• 30:24
  Speaker 1: think that everyone's made up their mind and everyone's a partisan, right?
• 30:27
  Speaker 1: You're either on our side or you're on their side
• 30:29
  Speaker 1: and there's no one in between. No, no, no. There's
• 30:31
  Speaker 1: a critical group of voters, mostly independents, probably, probably some Republicans,
• 30:36
  Speaker 1: maybe even a few Democrats who are going to vote
• 30:39
  Speaker 1: for Republicans in this midterm, but then also say they
• 30:41
  Speaker 1: want to vote for Joe Biden or a Democrat again
• 30:43
  Speaker 1: in a presidential and vice versa with Trump and Democratic
• 30:47
  Speaker 1: candidates in 18, like you point out. And again, in 16,
• 30:50
  Speaker 1: if you want to go even further back, that group
• 30:51
  Speaker 1: of voters that didn't like Trump and didn't like Hillary
• 30:54
  Speaker 1: Clinton ended up voting for Trump. which is one reason
• 30:57
  Speaker 1: he won that election. And then in 2020, it was
• 31:00
  Speaker 1: reversed and they didn't like both candidates and they went
• 31:02
  Speaker 1: for Biden. So there are swing voters out there and
• 31:06
  Speaker 1: they determine elections. What do you think about Pence, Cotton,
• 31:10
  Speaker 1: and DeSantis starting to criticize Trump? Smart politics or what?
• 31:13
  Speaker 2: I mean, Pence obviously has no choice. If he really
• 31:15
  Speaker 2: wants to run for president, he's obviously, there has to
• 31:20
  Speaker 2: be some sort of anti-Trump lane. And I think he
• 31:22
  Speaker 2: thinks he could probably but incorrectly, fill that role. He's
• 31:28
  Speaker 2: not Mitt Romney. He's not an apostate or a rhino
• 31:35
  Speaker 2: in the view of some. He was Donald Trump's vice
• 31:37
  Speaker 2: president and he doesn't like Donald Trump anymore or doesn't
• 31:40
  Speaker 2: agree with Donald Trump or doesn't want to join in
• 31:42
  Speaker 2: his crimes or whatever that is. And so he has
• 31:45
  Speaker 2: that choice. The other ones are trying to navigate sort
• 31:48
  Speaker 2: of an interesting uh, very narrow path of they, I
• 31:53
  Speaker 2: think they do recognize that if they want to be president,
• 31:56
  Speaker 2: they're going to have to be Trump's. They're going to
• 31:58
  Speaker 2: have to be different than Trump. So they're going to
• 32:00
  Speaker 2: have to criticize them, but they're having to do it
• 32:01
  Speaker 2: in a delicate enough way where they can be the
• 32:05
  Speaker 2: air to Trump's movement, where they could be like a smarter, uh,
• 32:11
  Speaker 2: Less chaotic, less criminal, less annoying version of Trump, right?
• 32:16
  Speaker 2: Where it's like this sort of thing where you can
• 32:18
  Speaker 2: get Trumpism without all the baggage or the chaos. And
• 32:21
  Speaker 2: that's what they're trying to get.
• 32:22
  Speaker 1: Trump without the chaos. Yeah. That's the– I just– you know,
• 32:29
  Speaker 1: here's the thing. So Tom Cotton, right, just as an example,
• 32:33
  Speaker 1: he gives this speech and he calls sentencing reform– the
• 32:38
  Speaker 1: worst mistake of Trump's presidency. He says, criminals released from
• 32:41
  Speaker 1: prison under the First Step Act have committed many more
• 32:43
  Speaker 1: heinous crimes. Basically tries to Willie Horton Donald Trump here
• 32:51
  Speaker 1: in this speech. Tries to go at him from the
• 32:53
  Speaker 1: right on criminal justice reform. In the same speech, he
• 32:57
  Speaker 1: also praised Trump and compared him to Reagan.
• 32:59
  Speaker 3: Yeah.
• 33:00
  Speaker 1: So like, you mentioned this, but like, talk about carving
• 33:03
  Speaker 1: a narrow, narrow lane here. I just think Just call
• 33:08
  Speaker 1: him a fucking loser. Take the swing. You don't win
• 33:11
  Speaker 1: a Republican primary against Donald Trump with subtle swipes and
• 33:15
  Speaker 1: policy criticism. That is not how this game is played, people.
• 33:19
  Speaker 1: It is not how this game is played. You have
• 33:21
  Speaker 1: to like this because like, look, and Donald Trump, he
• 33:25
  Speaker 1: has been hitting back, right? DeSantis said something about blaming
• 33:29
  Speaker 1: Trump for listening to Fauci and lockdowns and all that bullshit. And,
• 33:33
  Speaker 1: you know, Trump came back and hit him and And
• 33:35
  Speaker 1: then when Pence said there's no room in the party
• 33:38
  Speaker 1: for Putin apologists, Trump gives a speech the next day
• 33:40
  Speaker 1: and says, oh, someone called me a Putin apologist. Trump
• 33:44
  Speaker 1: hasn't even begun to really train his fire on these
• 33:48
  Speaker 1: people because he's waiting to see who actually becomes popular
• 33:51
  Speaker 1: so then he can really attack them. And I'm not
• 33:53
  Speaker 1: saying it's impossible to beat Donald Trump in a Republican primary,
• 33:56
  Speaker 1: though I do think it is exceedingly difficult and that
• 33:59
  Speaker 1: he is the frontrunner. I still think that. But if
• 34:01
  Speaker 1: you're going to do it, you've got to take the swing.
• 34:04
  Speaker 1: And you just got to go fully at Donald Trump
• 34:08
  Speaker 1: in a way that Donald Trump would do that to
• 34:11
  Speaker 1: you and not try to criticize his record around the edges.
• 34:15
  Speaker 2: The primary polls are interesting. So in January, Morning Consult
• 34:19
  Speaker 2: tested this, the hypothetical Republican primary with Donald Trump in it.
• 34:23
  Speaker 2: Donald Trump gets 50% of the vote. And in one way,
• 34:26
  Speaker 2: you look at that, and that's kind of a pretty
• 34:29
  Speaker 2: startling rebuke of Trump. Half of Republican voters, most of
• 34:32
  Speaker 2: whom believe that Donald Trump had the election stolen from him,
• 34:36
  Speaker 2: would rather have someone else run. Ron DeSantis comes in
• 34:39
  Speaker 2: second at like 24%. Everyone else is in the very
• 34:42
  Speaker 2: low single digits. But 50% in a multi-candidate field is
• 34:48
  Speaker 2: basically an insurmountable lead. 50% in a two-candidate field is
• 34:52
  Speaker 2: a very different deal. I mean, Hillary Clinton had a
• 34:53
  Speaker 2: lead that large against Bernie Sanders, and he almost beat
• 34:55
  Speaker 2: her in 2016. But the problem is you never get
• 35:00
  Speaker 2: to the two-candidate field. which is basically how Donald Trump
• 35:02
  Speaker 2: ended up winning the nomination because no one ran against them.
• 35:05
  Speaker 2: They were just waiting to be the person who got
• 35:07
  Speaker 2: to run against Trump. And then he was the nominee
• 35:09
  Speaker 2: before that happened.
• 35:11
  Speaker 1: Yeah. And again, you got to make your message about
• 35:15
  Speaker 1: why you and not Trump as crystal clear as possible
• 35:20
  Speaker 1: so that everyone gets it. It can't just be, oh,
• 35:23
  Speaker 1: maybe it'll be intuitive to people if I run to
• 35:27
  Speaker 1: the right on this issue and then run left on
• 35:29
  Speaker 1: this issue and then, no, no, no, no. It's just like,
• 35:32
  Speaker 1: why you, why not Donald Trump, who most people in
• 35:35
  Speaker 1: your party, again, are saying is the rightful winner of
• 35:38
  Speaker 1: the 2020 election and the greatest thing since Reagan and
• 35:43
  Speaker 1: has a 95% approval in the party, even if some
• 35:46
  Speaker 1: people don't want him to run again. Why should this
• 35:49
  Speaker 1: man run for president again? And if you don't have
• 35:52
  Speaker 1: that message early, I don't know what you're doing.
• 35:54
  Speaker 2: So Ron DeSantis, here's some free advice. Donald Trump was
• 35:57
  Speaker 2: a great president. He did great things. He put conservatives
• 36:01
  Speaker 2: on the Supreme Court. They did all these things that
• 36:03
  Speaker 2: you and I would find terrible. He made America first.
• 36:06
  Speaker 2: He built the MAGA movement. He had the election stolen
• 36:10
  Speaker 2: from him by Democrat judges, elites, et cetera. The stakes
• 36:16
  Speaker 2: are too high to lose this time. For as great
• 36:20
  Speaker 2: a president he was, he couldn't beat Sleepy Joe.
• 36:23
  Speaker 1: If you want to still parrot the bullshit that the
• 36:26
  Speaker 1: election was stolen, which they're all going to want to,
• 36:30
  Speaker 1: because that's what their fucking base believes, or at least
• 36:33
  Speaker 1: most of it, you're going to have to say, yeah,
• 36:35
  Speaker 1: Donald Trump got the election close enough for Sleepy Joe
• 36:39
  Speaker 1: to steal. That's how you do it. And I wouldn't
• 36:44
  Speaker 1: have gotten it that close.
• 36:45
  Speaker 2: We need somebody who can stand up to it. Sleepy
• 36:48
  Speaker 2: Joe and the Obamas and Stacey Abrams and AOC and
• 36:52
  Speaker 2: the squad and all of that. Donald Trump's a good man,
• 36:55
  Speaker 2: but he couldn't do it.
• 36:56
  Speaker 1: Yeah, he's past his prime yesterday, yesterday versus tomorrow. Does
• 37:00
  Speaker 1: the fact that some of Trump's Senate candidates are having
• 37:02
  Speaker 1: trouble tell us anything about Trump's popularity or does Trump
• 37:05
  Speaker 1: just gravitate towards the nuttiest Republicans?
• 37:09
  Speaker 2: I think it says more about his vetting process than
• 37:13
  Speaker 2: his actual popularity.
• 37:15
  Speaker 1: Are you saying it's not rigorous?
• 37:16
  Speaker 2: You know, every, you know, no, no system is perfect.
• 37:19
  Speaker 2: Everyone makes mistakes. You could miss some things that happens
• 37:22
  Speaker 2: even to the best opposition researchers, I'm sure poured through everything,
• 37:26
  Speaker 2: Herschel Walker and all these people said, I don't think
• 37:29
  Speaker 2: it says anything yet about Donald Trump's popularity. It's a
• 37:33
  Speaker 2: little early to find out, uh, you know, how many,
• 37:35
  Speaker 2: how many of these people win and lose. And as
• 37:37
  Speaker 2: we can see in some states, If his candidate is losing,
• 37:41
  Speaker 2: he's just going to switch. He's already about to throw
• 37:43
  Speaker 2: Mo Brooks overboard and pick up the winning candidate. I
• 37:46
  Speaker 2: do think, though, that if it turns out that Democrats
• 37:51
  Speaker 2: keep the Senate, despite all the political winner Republicans backed
• 37:53
  Speaker 2: because of Trump-backed candidates lost in Arizona and Pennsylvania and
• 38:00
  Speaker 2: North Carolina and Georgia, then I think that will be
• 38:05
  Speaker 2: a blow to Trump. That would be.
• 38:07
  Speaker 2: It sort of buttress that Trump is a loser narrative.
• 38:09
  Speaker 2: And I think that would be bad for him. Does
• 38:11
  Speaker 2: it mean he can't win the nominee? No, but it
• 38:14
  Speaker 2: would be a stumbling block.
• 38:15
  Speaker 1: I think. And he does gravitate to the biggest goobers.
• 38:18
  Speaker 1: That's just who he is. The Mo Brooks thing was
• 38:21
  Speaker 1: so funny because he's like, Mo Brooks is losing in
• 38:24
  Speaker 1: the Alabama Senate primary and Trump gives an interview this week,
• 38:27
  Speaker 1: the Washington Examiner, where he's like, I mean, I think
• 38:30
  Speaker 1: Mo Brooks has changed. Mo Brooks has changed. Which is
• 38:33
  Speaker 1: also what he's now saying about Putin, his old pal Putin.
• 38:38
  Speaker 1: After he called him a genius for invading Ukraine, now
• 38:41
  Speaker 1: no one likes Putin. So he's like, ah, Putin changed.
• 38:44
  Speaker 1: Putin changed. Notice that it's never Donald Trump that was wrong.
• 38:48
  Speaker 1: If Donald Trump was wrong about you, you've changed.
• 38:52
  Speaker 2: It's very clever.
• 38:54
  Speaker 1: Like, Mo Brooks is the same fucking idiot he was
• 38:56
  Speaker 1: when he started running for president in Alabama. He's just
• 39:00
  Speaker 1: losing now. So Donald Trump's like, oh, it wasn't my judgment.
• 39:03
  Speaker 1: It was Mo Brooks who changed. It wasn't me loving
• 39:06
  Speaker 1: Vladimir Putin. When I loved Vladimir Putin, he was a
• 39:08
  Speaker 1: great guy. Something got into him. That's why he's invading
• 39:12
  Speaker 1: Ukraine now.
• 39:13
  Speaker 2: It's a great way to go through life that way.
• 39:15
  Speaker 1: Unbelievable.
• 39:16
  Speaker 2: All right.
• 39:17
  Speaker 1: When we come back, I will talk to two local
• 39:19
  Speaker 1: activists in New Hampshire about the wave of progressive school
• 39:23
  Speaker 1: board victories that happened in that state last week. While
• 39:34
  Speaker 1: right-wing activists are targeting local school board races across the
• 39:37
  Speaker 1: country with extreme agendas and lots of outside money, New
• 39:41
  Speaker 1: Hampshire has some good news. Last week in local elections
• 39:44
  Speaker 1: that were dominated by debates over issues like COVID and
• 39:47
  Speaker 1: critical race theory, 29 out of 30 pro-public education candidates
• 39:52
  Speaker 1: won their races, some in pretty red areas of the state.
• 39:56
  Speaker 1: Here to talk to us about how they did it
• 39:59
  Speaker 1: is 603 Forward's Lucas Meyer and newly elected Londonderry District
• 40:03
  Speaker 1: School Board member Amanda Butcher. Thank you both for joining us.
• 40:07
  Speaker 4: Thanks for having us.
• 40:09
  Speaker 1: Amanda, congratulations. What were you seeing and hearing in Londonderry
• 40:15
  Speaker 1: that made you decide to finally run for school board?
• 40:18
  Speaker 4: Yeah, so that's actually why I'm here.
• 40:20
  Speaker 5: I had been slowly kind of catching up to what
• 40:24
  Speaker 5: was happening.
• 40:25
  Speaker 4: I was watching the meetings online.
• 40:27
  Speaker 5: Actually, which I took a lot of heat for because
• 40:30
  Speaker 5: I didn't go in person. But the more I saw,
• 40:33
  Speaker 5: the more concerned I started to get. And I'm in
• 40:37
  Speaker 5: the business of behavior. I'm an educational behavioral consultant. So
• 40:42
  Speaker 5: from that behavioral place, it was bothering me to.
• 40:46
  Speaker 4: See that sort of behavior change. at meetings.
• 40:49
  Speaker 5: That's not how to collaborate. That's not the way to
• 40:51
  Speaker 5: push things forward. So that's when I really started considering
• 40:55
  Speaker 5: getting involved.
• 40:57
  Speaker 1: What was going on at some of those meetings? What
• 41:00
  Speaker 1: were some of the issues that were being discussed and
• 41:01
  Speaker 1: what was the behavior that, that made you realize that
• 41:04
  Speaker 1: this was too much?
• 41:06
  Speaker 5: So it actually started for me back in the summer,
• 41:10
  Speaker 5: my friend who's a registered nurse was on the task force,
• 41:13
  Speaker 5: the reopening task force. And she was getting constant messages
• 41:17
  Speaker 5: and posting and people reaching out to her in a
• 41:20
  Speaker 5: very aggressive way because of her medical opinion and wanting
• 41:25
  Speaker 5: to kind of look at research and data to drive
• 41:27
  Speaker 5: the decision-making process related to masks. So that's really what
• 41:31
  Speaker 5: kind of got things fired up and got me paying attention.
• 41:34
  Speaker 5: And then just like the tone and tenor of the meetings,
• 41:37
  Speaker 5: people yelling when other people were speaking and In Londonderry,
• 41:41
  Speaker 5: it definitely got to a point where one of the
• 41:43
  Speaker 5: meetings had to be ended publicly due to audience behavior
• 41:47
  Speaker 5: and just, you know, current board members being harassed and
• 41:53
  Speaker 5: ended up resigning. And it just got to this point
• 41:55
  Speaker 5: where I felt like people were getting afraid to participate.
• 41:59
  Speaker 4: And that's what really struck a nerve with me.
• 42:03
  Speaker 1: Lucas, how did you guys decide to help candidates like Amanda?
• 42:06
  Speaker 1: And what kind of support did you offer these campaigns?
• 42:09
  Speaker 5: Sure.
• 42:09
  Speaker 6: And so, you know, growing up in New Hampshire, you know,
• 42:11
  Speaker 6: a lot of kids my age didn't stick around after
• 42:13
  Speaker 6: high school and didn't come back after college. And it's
• 42:16
  Speaker 6: no surprise when you look at state government, you look
• 42:18
  Speaker 6: at local government and some of the decisions that have
• 42:20
  Speaker 6: been made in the state that really do not make
• 42:22
  Speaker 6: it a terribly enticing place for young people to come
• 42:25
  Speaker 6: back to. Now, when I founded 603 Forward with my partner,
• 42:30
  Speaker 6: Liz Wester, a couple of years ago, we wanted to
• 42:32
  Speaker 6: make sure that we were building power for young people.
• 42:35
  Speaker 6: And we believe that theory of change is putting young
• 42:37
  Speaker 6: people like Amanda in those positions of power to represent
• 42:42
  Speaker 6: young mothers, teachers, families, parents, to make sure that some
• 42:46
  Speaker 6: of those extreme ideologies that people are pushing in these
• 42:49
  Speaker 6: communities don't make it very far. And so we do
• 42:53
  Speaker 6: this work year round. We have an advocacy pipeline with
• 42:56
  Speaker 6: our advocacy and engagement director, Matt Mushian, who works with
• 43:01
  Speaker 6: folks one-on-one on issues that are important to them. And
• 43:03
  Speaker 6: then we feed them into a pipeline with our leadership
• 43:06
  Speaker 6: development director, Tim Pelletier, who works with these candidates one-on-one.
• 43:11
  Speaker 6: And really, what we look for are people like Amanda,
• 43:14
  Speaker 6: who just care about their community and who are willing
• 43:17
  Speaker 6: and who are brave enough to step up to the
• 43:19
  Speaker 6: plate to serve in their community. And the least we
• 43:21
  Speaker 6: can do is help lower that threshold, right? So what
• 43:24
  Speaker 6: does that look like? That looks like trainings. We held
• 43:27
  Speaker 6: eight trainings starting in December. for candidates, and we focus
• 43:31
  Speaker 6: on candidates 50 and under. And that seems, you know,
• 43:33
  Speaker 6: we consider that young in New Hampshire, we are an
• 43:35
  Speaker 6: aging state, so we consider under 50 young in the state.
• 43:38
  Speaker 6: And we had over 60 young people run for local
• 43:42
  Speaker 6: office this last election. In the city elections last November,
• 43:46
  Speaker 6: we had over 50. So we find some of these
• 43:49
  Speaker 6: candidates we recruit. Some of them are just looking to run.
• 43:52
  Speaker 6: And we provide them some of that baseline information. We
• 43:55
  Speaker 6: call them run for office 101s. Then we have 102s.
• 43:59
  Speaker 6: And then we have one-on-one meetings to make sure that
• 44:01
  Speaker 6: Amanda knows. Here's what it takes.
• 44:04
  Speaker 4: It doesn't take a lot.
• 44:05
  Speaker 6: Because Amanda is exactly like how the theory of change works.
• 44:09
  Speaker 6: She's ingrained in her community. She works in the schools,
• 44:12
  Speaker 6: she has kids. All we bring to the table is
• 44:15
  Speaker 6: here are the tools to get it done. And then
• 44:18
  Speaker 6: after the filing period closes, you know, we kind of
• 44:20
  Speaker 6: cut off those communications and then we invest in digital,
• 44:24
  Speaker 6: digital ads, mail program, direct mail to candidates, and then
• 44:29
  Speaker 6: even some direct voter contact, which has changed a little
• 44:32
  Speaker 6: bit during the pandemic, but heading into the summer for
• 44:35
  Speaker 6: the state elections, we'll be looking to do more of that.
• 44:37
  Speaker 6: So just really, you know, if these leaders are willing
• 44:40
  Speaker 6: to step up to run in their community, we want
• 44:42
  Speaker 6: to make sure we have their back and that we
• 44:44
  Speaker 6: provide them that support for any office. This wasn't just
• 44:47
  Speaker 6: school board. We were focusing on local election official positions.
• 44:50
  Speaker 6: We were focusing on town council positions and select board positions,
• 44:54
  Speaker 6: budget committee, planning board, zoning board. So it's not, the
• 44:58
  Speaker 6: school board obviously was a very, we were very nervous
• 45:01
  Speaker 6: about this heading into the new year. And just seeing
• 45:04
  Speaker 6: the results on Tuesday was like, I mean, I was
• 45:07
  Speaker 6: pulling for Amanda in Londonderry, but I was not expecting
• 45:11
  Speaker 6: the margin by, I knew she was going to win,
• 45:14
  Speaker 6: but I was not expecting the margin.
• 45:17
  Speaker 1: Amanda, I know a lot of, uh, out of state
• 45:21
  Speaker 1: right-wing groups spent tons of money on attack ads in
• 45:23
  Speaker 1: these races. What were some of the attacks you heard
• 45:25
  Speaker 1: repeated most frequently and how did you respond to them?
• 45:30
  Speaker 5: My experience was more just kind of constant hammering and
• 45:34
  Speaker 5: words in my mouth. Um, The big, the big thing
• 45:37
  Speaker 5: was that, um, me and my neighbor, um, ended up
• 45:41
  Speaker 5: kind of, well, so just to give you the backstory, um,
• 45:43
  Speaker 5: there's a Facebook group for, um, Londonderry residents who, um,
• 45:50
  Speaker 5: are for common sense thinking. So, um, not necessarily masks
• 45:53
  Speaker 5: all the time, but Hey, like numbers.
• 45:54
  Speaker 4: Are low right now.
• 45:55
  Speaker 5: And, and the hospital hospitals aren't overwhelmed. So that makes
• 45:59
  Speaker 5: more sense, but like that we should never take, you know,
• 46:02
  Speaker 5: a mitigation strategy off the table and, you know, we
• 46:05
  Speaker 5: need to look at what's best for the whole community
• 46:07
  Speaker 5: and that sort of thing. So within that group, I
• 46:10
  Speaker 5: kind of realized that someone needed to step up and run.
• 46:14
  Speaker 5: There were two seats available that were going to kind
• 46:18
  Speaker 5: of make for an uncontested race, which first off, no
• 46:21
  Speaker 5: race should ever be uncontested, right?
• 46:23
  Speaker 4: But the second thing that.
• 46:25
  Speaker 5: Really kind of happened was I felt like my beliefs
• 46:27
  Speaker 5: weren't represented. And so I started to kind of, you know, hey, like,
• 46:33
  Speaker 5: I have a master's in ed and I have two
• 46:35
  Speaker 5: kids and I work with admins and teachers and students and,
• 46:39
  Speaker 5: you know, I'm kind of interested, but then got overwhelmed
• 46:44
  Speaker 5: and kind of pulled back. And then it kind of
• 46:46
  Speaker 5: within that group, hey, if people are willing to run,
• 46:49
  Speaker 5: like we have someone who could help support, you know,
• 46:52
  Speaker 5: making signs. And this is just like my neighbors, like
• 46:54
  Speaker 5: local community members who I didn't even really, to be
• 46:57
  Speaker 5: honest with you, know much about before. And when I
• 47:00
  Speaker 5: saw that I had that support, then I was like, okay,
• 47:04
  Speaker 5: even though I still tried to talk myself out of
• 47:06
  Speaker 5: it a little bit for the next two weeks, knowing
• 47:08
  Speaker 5: that I had that support of the people around me
• 47:11
  Speaker 5: was great. And then of course, 603 Forward came in
• 47:14
  Speaker 5: once I had announced that I was running and it
• 47:16
  Speaker 5: was super helpful. And I will say very nonpartisan in
• 47:19
  Speaker 5: terms of like, hey, like, here's what you do. Like,
• 47:23
  Speaker 5: here's how to write a piece about your background. And
• 47:25
  Speaker 5: here's the message here, you know, decide your message. And
• 47:28
  Speaker 5: here's a way that you could get it across. And
• 47:30
  Speaker 5: here's how to, you know, do this and that. And
• 47:33
  Speaker 5: just those little logistical pieces that you wouldn't necessarily know if,
• 47:37
  Speaker 5: if you didn't do this for a living. Um, and
• 47:39
  Speaker 5: that was super comforting at a time, obviously where things
• 47:42
  Speaker 5: were super contentious. Um, but the big thing that came
• 47:44
  Speaker 5: out of that was that, um, to get back to
• 47:46
  Speaker 5: your original question, um, was just kind of that, you know,
• 47:50
  Speaker 5: I'm this hand selected puppet, um, extremist liberal. And, um,
• 47:55
  Speaker 5: that was like the big thing. Um, And even now
• 47:59
  Speaker 5: after the election, things have actually kind of ramped up again.
• 48:01
  Speaker 5: And now the election was fraudulent and I didn't really win.
• 48:06
  Speaker 5: And I left the high school gym before the announcements
• 48:09
  Speaker 5: were made, not because all of the people that had
• 48:11
  Speaker 5: harassed me were in that gym packed together, but because
• 48:15
  Speaker 5: I already had known that I won. And so like
• 48:17
  Speaker 5: just the narrative of disinformation, I think was probably the
• 48:20
  Speaker 5: most frustrating part.
• 48:22
  Speaker 1: I imagine that you talked to quite a few undecided
• 48:25
  Speaker 1: voters over the course of the campaign. For people who
• 48:28
  Speaker 1: are undecided or people who might traditionally be independent or
• 48:31
  Speaker 1: even Republican, what were the arguments that tended to win
• 48:35
  Speaker 1: them over when you were talking to folks one on one?
• 48:37
  Speaker 5: I think the big thing and to go back, you know,
• 48:39
  Speaker 5: I obviously love behavior. You probably know that from talking
• 48:42
  Speaker 5: to me just for five minutes. Part of it was
• 48:43
  Speaker 5: that my message was that you can feel however you
• 48:47
  Speaker 5: feel always. It's always OK to share your beliefs. But
• 48:51
  Speaker 5: when you get into doing so inappropriately.
• 48:54
  Speaker 4: That is not.
• 48:55
  Speaker 5: Not only disrespectful, but it's counterproductive. No one ever says
• 48:59
  Speaker 5: to someone who yelled at them, like, oh, thank you
• 49:01
  Speaker 5: so much. Let me really consider your thoughts.
• 49:04
  Speaker 1: You've changed my mind by screaming at me. Thank you.
• 49:06
  Speaker 3: You're right.
• 49:07
  Speaker 4: So that's unproductive.
• 49:09
  Speaker 5: And that's something that I thought I could really bring
• 49:11
  Speaker 5: to the table because in my job as an educator,
• 49:14
  Speaker 5: I'm a consultant and I typically don't get invited onto
• 49:16
  Speaker 5: a team until things are pretty bad. So we have
• 49:19
  Speaker 5: a frustrated parent, their child's not doing well. No one
• 49:23
  Speaker 5: who works in schools likes to see a child struggling, right?
• 49:27
  Speaker 5: So teachers struggling with that, but a lot of times
• 49:29
  Speaker 5: it's pretty maladaptive behaviors that I deal with. So teachers
• 49:33
  Speaker 5: are having a hard time teaching because of behavior and
• 49:36
  Speaker 5: things like that. And administrators having that same kind of
• 49:39
  Speaker 5: I want the best for the kid. How can we
• 49:41
  Speaker 5: move forward? So my thing was kind of like, I
• 49:43
  Speaker 5: already kind of work out of these contentious situations pretty often.
• 49:46
  Speaker 5: So maybe that would be a good skill set. But
• 49:49
  Speaker 5: that's kind of what I really tried to say to
• 49:52
  Speaker 5: undecided voters was that if I have the perspective of
• 49:55
  Speaker 5: a parent, I have a third grader and a fifth
• 49:57
  Speaker 5: grader in this district. I have perspective of school administrators.
• 50:01
  Speaker 5: I've worked through COVID the last two years with people
• 50:04
  Speaker 5: trying to keep buildings open and keep everybody safe.
• 50:07
  Speaker 4: I work with teachers. I work with paras.
• 50:09
  Speaker 5: So like perspective wise, I am super cognizant of of
• 50:14
  Speaker 5: what the whole group's perspective is, which is really important
• 50:17
  Speaker 5: when you're looking at decision making.
• 50:20
  Speaker 1: Lucas, you've now supported dozens of candidates who won local
• 50:23
  Speaker 1: races dominated by these right wing culture issues. What lessons
• 50:26
  Speaker 1: do you think Democratic candidates and campaigns across the country
• 50:29
  Speaker 1: can learn from what happened in New Hampshire last week?
• 50:33
  Speaker 6: Well, I'm always hesitant to draw big, broad conclusions based
• 50:36
  Speaker 6: off what happens in a single election. But what I
• 50:38
  Speaker 6: do think is true here is you just heard Amanda
• 50:41
  Speaker 6: talk about her experience and the values and her personal
• 50:46
  Speaker 6: and professional experience that she brought to the race. So
• 50:49
  Speaker 6: I think as we, you know, in 603 Forward, we're
• 50:52
  Speaker 6: looking at every election, right? We're doing this every, I mean,
• 50:54
  Speaker 6: you know, New Hampshire, John, right? It's like every other
• 50:56
  Speaker 6: week there's an election in the state. So we are
• 50:59
  Speaker 6: always looking to find leaders like Amanda like the other
• 51:03
  Speaker 6: 60 plus young people we had on the ballot and
• 51:07
  Speaker 6: give them the tools they need at the local level
• 51:10
  Speaker 6: to build that pipeline of leadership and to demonstrate to
• 51:14
  Speaker 6: voters in these communities. And it's not, I understand these
• 51:17
  Speaker 6: are nonpartisan races, but that Ideas like taking care of
• 51:20
  Speaker 6: our students, like supporting our teachers, like making sure we're
• 51:24
  Speaker 6: not censoring teachers in the classroom, which is a very
• 51:26
  Speaker 6: real problem in this state. That we are that we
• 51:29
  Speaker 6: are demonstrating at a local level, the benefits of electing.
• 51:33
  Speaker 6: I don't want to say Democratic candidates, but like progressive candidates.
• 51:38
  Speaker 6: And that we. You can't take any election off. And
• 51:41
  Speaker 6: that if we want to build power, it has to
• 51:43
  Speaker 6: be trickle up. That we will see in this state
• 51:46
  Speaker 6: millions and millions of dollars to reelect Senator Maggie Hassan,
• 51:50
  Speaker 6: which I'm super supportive of. If we took 5%, 2%,
• 51:56
  Speaker 6: a half a percent of how much money is going
• 51:58
  Speaker 6: to be spent that U.S. Senate race and invested it
• 52:01
  Speaker 6: in next year's town elections, next year's city elections, and
• 52:03
  Speaker 6: the state house races coming up in the fall, we
• 52:06
  Speaker 6: could do some amazing things.
• 52:08
  Speaker 1: So I guess what? And that's and that's what Republicans
• 52:10
  Speaker 1: have been doing for years.
• 52:12
  Speaker 6: That's exactly right. And I mean, we're talking about a
• 52:15
  Speaker 6: cumulative investment from our organization, maybe twenty five, thirty thousand dollars.
• 52:20
  Speaker 6: And we swept across the state. And more importantly, we
• 52:25
  Speaker 6: saw voter turnout increase in some communities from 30 to
• 52:27
  Speaker 6: 50 percent. in a town election. Those are people who
• 52:32
  Speaker 6: weren't registered before. We heard anecdotes around the state of
• 52:35
  Speaker 6: a lot of new young people showing up to vote.
• 52:37
  Speaker 6: So if we want to build sustainable power, let's start local.
• 52:42
  Speaker 6: Let's make sure we invest in these candidates. It's not
• 52:44
  Speaker 6: a ton of money, but the benefits are huge.
• 52:48
  Speaker 5: Lucas, it's not a lot of money in the grand
• 52:50
  Speaker 5: scheme of things, but for someone like me, who was
• 52:53
  Speaker 5: obviously not working with a lot, one of my favorite
• 52:55
  Speaker 5: parts of this whole experience was My husband came in
• 52:59
  Speaker 5: the house with a mailer that you had sent out.
• 53:02
  Speaker 4: And he was like, what is this? Who paid for this?
• 53:05
  Speaker 4: And I was like, what is that?
• 53:06
  Speaker 5: And I looked and I saw my name on this
• 53:09
  Speaker 5: mailer and that was invaluable to me. We weren't able
• 53:13
  Speaker 5: to raise the kind of money needed to do something
• 53:16
  Speaker 5: like that and get our names out there. And it
• 53:17
  Speaker 5: was such a short election season. So I just wanted
• 53:19
  Speaker 5: to say how much I really appreciated that. It definitely
• 53:22
  Speaker 5: meant a lot. And it was super exciting to see
• 53:24
  Speaker 5: that because of course we're doing the best that we
• 53:27
  Speaker 5: could with our resources, but to have that additional layer
• 53:29
  Speaker 5: of support was super important.
• 53:32
  Speaker 6: Right, and just real quick on that, and I want
• 53:35
  Speaker 6: to make sure some of our partners who worked on
• 53:37
  Speaker 6: this are recognized as well. Granite State, Progress, Standing Up
• 53:40
  Speaker 6: for Children did a lot of really great work here.
• 53:42
  Speaker 6: This is always a team effort in New Hampshire, and
• 53:44
  Speaker 6: I think that's really important. But making sure we're just
• 53:47
  Speaker 6: educating people that these elections are happening, right? A lot
• 53:49
  Speaker 6: of folks... I mean, we're excited about like a 50%
• 53:52
  Speaker 6: increase in turnout in some communities. That's still only for
• 53:55
  Speaker 6: a voting age of the whole town, still only like
• 53:58
  Speaker 6: a 30% turnout total. So like the sky's really the
• 54:01
  Speaker 6: limit here on what we can do when we invest
• 54:02
  Speaker 6: in these local races.
• 54:04
  Speaker 1: Amanda, you mentioned earlier that you were apprehensive at first
• 54:08
  Speaker 1: about running. What would you say to parents out there
• 54:10
  Speaker 1: who might be worried about a right-wing takeover of their
• 54:13
  Speaker 1: kid's school board, wondering if they should get involved or
• 54:16
  Speaker 1: even run themselves? But like you, we're a little worried
• 54:20
  Speaker 1: about taking that first step.
• 54:22
  Speaker 5: Yeah, I would say that there's different ways to get
• 54:25
  Speaker 5: involved and kind of get your feet wet. And I
• 54:28
  Speaker 5: was told many times, like, you're too late. You should
• 54:31
  Speaker 5: have been here this whole time.
• 54:33
  Speaker 4: And what are you doing here?
• 54:34
  Speaker 5: And it's never too late, you know, to say how
• 54:38
  Speaker 5: you feel. And even something like as small as showing
• 54:41
  Speaker 5: up to a meeting and supporting just by your physical presence,
• 54:45
  Speaker 5: supporting people in that way makes a huge difference and
• 54:50
  Speaker 5: is very valuable in terms of showing your support for
• 54:53
  Speaker 5: your community.
• 54:53
  Speaker 1: Amanda Butcher, Lucas Meyer, thank you so much for joining
• 54:57
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America. Congrats on all the fantastic work and
• 55:00
  Speaker 1: keep it up.
• 55:01
  Speaker 4: Thank you so much for having us.
• 55:03
  Speaker 2: Thank you, Joan.
• 55:03
  Speaker 1: Thank you. Thanks to Lucas Meyer and Amanda Butcher for
• 55:11
  Speaker 1: joining the pod today and everyone have a great weekend.
• 55:13
  Speaker 1: We will talk to you next week and go pre-order
• 55:17
  Speaker 1: Dan's book, Battling the Big Lie.
• 55:19
  Speaker 2: Thank you for forcing me not to do that on
• 55:21
  Speaker 2: the end. Bye everyone.
• 55:26
  Speaker 1: Pod Save America is a Crooked Media production. The executive
• 55:29
  Speaker 1: producer is Michael Martinez. Our senior producer is Andy Gardner Bernstein.
• 55:33
  Speaker 1: Our producer is Haley Muse and Olivia Martinez is our
• 55:36
  Speaker 1: associate producer. It's mixed and edited by Andrew Chadwick. Kyle
• 55:40
  Speaker 1: Seglin and Charlotte Landis sound engineer the show. Thanks to
• 55:42
  Speaker 1: Tanya Sominator, Sandy Gerard, Hallie Kiefer, Ari Schwartz, Andy Taft,
• 55:46
  Speaker 1: and Justine Howe for production support. And to our digital team,
• 55:50
  Speaker 1: Elijah Cohn, Phoebe Bradford, Milo Kim, and Amelia Montouf. Our
• 55:54
  Speaker 1: episodes are uploaded as videos at youtube.com slash crookedmedia.