Latest / Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast / Ep 322: Tom Russell (Co-Founder of Governor's Ball)

Transcript

Ep 322: Tom Russell (Co-Founder of Governor's Ball) · Andy Frasco's World Saving Podcast

0:11
Hmm.
0:11
Wow. We did it live. Andy Frasco's World Saving podcast.
0:15
It is festival season people. Yes. Oh
0:19
Yes. We're back.
0:20
Festival season is here.
0:22
Yep. Most of them are back. Most of them for now.
0:26
Including a very big one that we interviewed.
0:29
Yeah. We just interviewed one of the founders,
0:30
the founders of New York's biggest
0:32
music festival Governor's Ball.
0:34
Yeah. That was awesome. He was incredible.
0:37
Yeah. You know, you thought you'd think these guys
0:40
would be a little more pretentious, but they're not.
0:42
I would be if I was them, but I don't know. I guess not.
0:45
And he's like a music fan though. Yeah.
0:47
He was wearing a phish sweatshirt.
0:48
What is this thing with every major guy in music,
0:51
whether they're booking jam band s**t
0:52
or not all started as Phish fans.
0:54
I have an idea of that Because
0:57
Oh, as a business mind,
0:59
they probably respect the f**k outta Phish
1:02
how they built this f*****g career.
1:04
They're geniuses And no f*****g singles.
1:06
No singles on the radio, just straight live music. Also,
1:10
Their business model is pretty, like, really good.
1:12
They keep it all, all their money in house.
1:14
They make their own merch. Did you know that,
1:16
By the way, this is Nick Gerlach, my co-host.
1:17
They know it's Andy Frasco World Saving
1:19
Podcast. They know who I am by
1:20
now.
1:21
Welcome back. They've already turned it off. They're
1:23
Like, f**k This a*****e.
1:25
What are they gonna do? Just a
1:26
nick, only one to get notified.
1:27
Yeah. Um, but Phish has a crazy business model
1:31
where they keep everything in house.
1:32
They're very smart with that.
1:33
That's how I wanted to get this guy on the
1:35
show. Don't, don't do
1:39
It. I, I'm just kidding. I
1:40
don't even know if
1:40
You won't pulled the Kanye on there. I don't
1:42
Even know if that's true, actually.
1:43
Oh my God. Um,
1:45
but yeah, it's, uh, being a promoter in this day
1:49
of age takes some f*****g balls.
1:52
I'd rather be an ER doctor. I think
1:53
Granted, you know, you gotta, you got a bank
1:55
that's Live Nation
1:56
or a EG, whatever it is when you're on these bigger
1:58
festivals, but just like, put your dick out there
2:01
and be a music festival promoter.
2:02
Founder takes a lot of coones.
2:06
And on the topic of having a bank like Live Nation,
2:08
you have to get yourself to the
2:09
point where they will give you money.
2:10
Exactly. Also, they will bail on you
2:12
so f*****g fast if you start, it's not like,
2:15
they're not like homies where it's like,
2:16
oh, I'll bankroll another one. It's like, what
2:18
Was that? There's like Mound
2:19
Jam. Yeah.
2:20
Um, I think it's called Mound Jam. Yeah.
2:22
Yeah. West Virginia. No, no.
2:23
Um, or no, Woodstock, New York.
2:25
Oh, that, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah, yeah.
2:27
Live Nation or some of them. One of them bought Mound Jam.
2:31
Mm-hmm. And from this guy Gary. Mm-hmm.
2:34
Um, and uh, which I'm kind of frustrated with Gary.
2:37
Uh, he didn't book me on his festival when
2:39
he promised me, but anyway. Is this
2:41
The Catskill Chill guy? No, no, but
2:42
It's around there. I'm
2:43
on to you, Gary. Yeah.
2:45
Gary, you did a good job not asking Tom Russell if you
2:48
could be play the festival next year. Dude,
2:50
You f*****g tried to burn me in the beginning.
2:52
No, we are homies. He, he knew. He knows us already. Yeah.
2:55
Yeah. He said he is listened before
2:56
He tried to burn me in the beginning.
2:57
It wasn't before he gonna ask you.
2:59
Oh. He thought it was funny. So annoying.
3:01
Most people know jokes, But like when I'm asking,
3:03
you gotta, it's better. It
3:05
Wasn't during The interview. I
3:06
know, but like, you doing it
3:07
before, just to get a f*****g quick joke.
3:09
Mm-hmm. Doesn't make the interview.
3:11
When he gets a surprise to me asking, then it's like, I
3:14
Didn't think you were gonna actually ask him that.
3:16
I was
3:17
The F**k you'll get on there.
3:19
I don't think that'll f**k you,
3:20
Dude. I know, but like, Don
3:21
just like,
3:22
it's like telling someone the questions before
3:25
Nah. The interview.
3:26
I
3:27
didn't think you would actually ask them that.
3:29
You know, I'm not a p***y.
3:30
I ask anyone anything, you know, I
3:32
Have no line. Yeah. I
3:33
Ain't no f*****g softy.
3:34
I bet you get on anyway.
3:36
No, I'm not. He, he told a straight head, young fans like
3:39
Jam fans. Yeah. It's like,
3:40
no 35 year olds.
3:41
Yeah. No. Yeah. All Jam fans are like 40 years old now.
3:44
And he said the festival scene's gotten way younger.
3:46
I think that's 'cause of EDMA little bit too.
3:48
And pop. He said he's like only booking pop and rock.
3:50
Yeah. Weird. But you're gonna love this interview.
3:53
I mean, if you like the business side of music,
3:57
all the bands out there who like, are wondering how
4:00
to get on Bonnaroo and wondering how to get on, um,
4:04
Governor's Ball, governor's Ball.
4:06
Coachella, Coachella and ACL.
4:08
We just, big luck talked to the f*****g founder of one
4:10
of these big ass festivals
4:12
and he was honest about the whole thing.
4:14
He was cool. You know, he didn't sugarcoat it.
4:17
I felt like a lot of these guys probably sugarcoated a hair,
4:20
but we're gonna get more of these guys.
4:21
I wanna get outside Lands Guy on there. He was
4:23
Pretty practical.
4:25
I gotta get John Bongiorno on there too. Wheres
4:27
The outside lands again? Is that in California? No,
4:29
Um, yeah, It's in San Francisco.
4:31
We should call John. It's in San Francisco. Right.
4:33
And see what's his take on these vendors
4:34
Isn't in the Bay.
4:36
Um, My sister goes to it.
4:38
We should call him. He probably won't answer.
4:40
He, I could tell when he is super busy.
4:42
Yeah. He's short with me on text sometimes. Hold on.
4:47
This is my agent, John Bongiorno. Yep. I knew it. Um, that's
4:52
His Voicemail. Call me
4:53
Johnno.
4:54
That's hilarious. Um, he put you right to the,
4:58
he didn't even let it ring.
4:59
Nope. He knows He's in a meeting
5:01
with someone that makes more money than you. Oh,
5:02
Hold on. Lemme text on a
5:03
team call.
5:04
Yeah, sure. I wanna
5:05
Put you, I wanna put you on the pod. Get
5:08
The whole team call Talk.
5:10
He's on a team call. I wanna put
5:12
On talk, be the whole team on the pod.
5:14
Um, Okay. Governor's Ball.
5:17
All right. Nevermind. Um,
5:19
but, you know, agents, you know, John's a big agent.
5:22
He manage, he books K cr bin.
5:23
He books Royal, who's on Governor's Ball.
5:26
I'm just curious to hear both sides of the story of,
5:29
you know, it's like the push and pull of it all.
5:31
The push and pull of it, you know, like
5:33
to get these big headliners, you know, do you need to do,
5:36
is there a negotiating power
5:37
to get some of their smaller bands off? Sounds
5:39
Fun. It's
5:40
like, uh, you're holding the cards.
5:41
You're both holding cards. You both
5:43
Have some leverage. You
5:44
Both have some leverage.
5:45
It was very fascinating.
5:47
We love leverage in this podcast. We
5:49
Love leverage.
5:53
I almost never have it, but
5:54
God, I do.
5:55
Oh man. Speaking of leverage volume.com.
5:58
Speaking of leverage, Sign up for our only,
6:02
uh, f Rasco subscription.
6:04
Listen, everyone, this is what's going down.
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We are doing less things on the internet. Mm-hmm.
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So this is the way to get a hold of more content.
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If you can't see this band play a lot,
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because you might be in some,
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you have a job. You have a job or
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Life. Yeah.
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Or, you know, it's again, exp you know, it's expensive.
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but it's still expensive to go travel.
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Do your thing. Travel. And if you just wanna watch the band
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RA's playing this Friday. Bring your neighbor.
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Yeah. Make it a party. Get drunk in your basement. And
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We're gonna be doing exclusive podcasts.
6:47
Mm-hmm. And Nick's setting up a really hot
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and really cumy trivia
6:53
Show platform, if you will.
6:55
Nick's going too. We're gonna be competing for your
6:58
Yeah. I'm gonna destroy
6:59
you. Actually, I don't think so.
7:00
That'd be so fun. That would be funny
7:01
If I get, we should just do this together.
7:03
But if I get, if you wanna do your own. No,
7:05
I think one thing in my life
7:06
could be not connected to you.
7:07
All right then. I don't know why I'm pushing
7:08
so hard to be, because
7:09
You're my friend.
7:10
Right. You care about me and you want me to be successful
7:14
because you're not around me all the time.
7:15
I need something to do. When you're on the
7:16
road with your band.
7:17
200 days a year. Andy thinks I just like,
7:19
am like the Indian of the cupboard.
7:21
And like, I turn, like, as soon as he lemme sit up, uh,
7:25
as, as Andy thinks, I'm like the Indian for Cupboard.
7:28
And like, he's like, oh, I'm going to on the road tomorrow.
7:30
He thinks he just like, puts me in a closet
7:31
and I just like, turn into a statue.
7:33
And then he, and then he texts me when he gets home.
7:35
He's like, can you come over and set up the
7:36
studio and I come to life?
7:38
That's what you think it is, isn't it? Right.
7:39
No. Have you ever heard of, so
7:41
You also do trivia.
7:43
Yeah. But I don't do it when you're not there.
7:45
Have you ever heard of Sonder?
7:47
No. It's like when you realize that other people
7:50
also have these, their entire lives
7:52
and thoughts and feelings too. Oh
7:54
Yeah. You've been telling
7:55
me that
7:55
They're not just characters in a movie. No. The
7:57
World doesn't evolve around Me.
7:58
Not even that evolve around you.
8:01
Revolve, revolve and evolve around you.
8:03
But, um, it's like when you realize everybody has their own
8:07
like, full life too, and you're just
8:08
a character in their life as well.
8:09
Yeah. Something to think about.
8:12
Anyway. volume.com. Sign up for both Nick and my sign
8:15
Up for his thing. Mine's
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not ready yet. Just do his first. It
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Will be when this comes out. If
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you have extra money, do mine.
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Andy's an important one. We all know how,
8:22
Oh my God. I'm just kidding.
8:23
Look at this. I'm so good at this. I learned
8:25
Little f*****g EOR over Here.
8:26
That's from my, that was my nickname in high. I gotta
8:28
Stop. I'm, I'm just
8:29
gonna start thinking about myself.
8:31
But finally I try
8:33
to get everyone paid out here and everyone's just like,
8:36
I haven't, I know.
8:37
I don't know if I ever complained.
8:40
You're p****d when they, when you know,
8:42
When I'm not going into it. I'm not
8:45
P****d. I'm not
8:46
getting into it. You're, you're conflating me
8:48
with other people in your life, aren't you?
8:53
Sign up for volume back home.
8:55
Um, how you doing Nick? What else is
8:57
Going on? I'm actually doing really well.
8:59
I guess it's festival season.
9:00
Are you on any festivals this year?
9:01
This is the festival episode.
9:02
No, I'm doing a bunch of after parties
9:04
for widespread panic and s**t.
9:05
Like really? I'm doing Asheville after party.
9:08
What? What? I'm playing with a colt.
9:10
We're gonna do Asheville in July. That's sick.
9:12
We're at the Asheville Music
9:14
Hall. The one stop.
9:15
The bottom hook. Sick. I know.
9:16
It's gonna be sick. I got a local band.
9:17
Well, I, what's that? July I wanna go. You should go.
9:20
It's like late July. Yo. And, and panics playing. That'd
9:24
Be sick. We should go to Governor's
9:25
Ball next week. I'm
9:26
Down. This
9:27
is, uh, New York City.
9:28
I think you don't have a good, you think
9:29
The hook is up with like, sick tickets? Probably.
9:32
We're pretty important.
9:34
Damn. We are kind of important People.
9:38
Founders wanna be on our podcast.
9:39
Where It's in Queens too.
9:41
I like that. I haven't really spent much
9:42
Time. I thought it was on an island.
9:43
It was. It moved. It's moved like four
9:45
times. Oh really? Yeah. Yeah, yeah. Yeah.
9:46
Just keeps getting bigger Probably. Yeah. Yeah.
9:48
Or just cheaper to do it.
9:49
God, it must be a pain in the ass to deal
9:51
with the f*****g city of New York.
9:53
Ugh. Sounds f*****g,
9:54
I don't even like it on the Instagram.
9:56
It's hard to deal with the city of Denver. I
9:59
Love New York City, but it is a lot.
10:01
It's a lot. I couldn't live there.
10:03
I wanna go. That sounds fun. Who's on OTI role? Odi.
10:07
Um, God Damnit. I think Tyler the creator. Mm-hmm.
10:11
I gotta look again. But there's a bunch
10:12
of badass like pop stars. So
10:14
Head over to Governor's Ball. It's
10:15
gonna be great if you're in the New York.
10:16
You a lot of New York fans on this podcast. Go.
10:19
Tom's a really good guy. He was cool
10:21
As hell. He
10:21
Was cool. He used to super
10:22
fly. Was it? Yeah. Super Fly.
10:24
He was, he was one of the top dogs at Superfly, which
10:28
Produced Bonnaroo, which Produced Bonnaroo.
10:29
Not anymore. I like his story.
10:30
You said, Hey, are you going to,
10:34
I wanna start my own big thing.
10:35
And they're like, well, good luck. Yeah.
10:38
And then he f*****g did it. So shut out the Tom.
10:40
Yeah. That's good job. I don't think they do Bonnaroo.
10:42
They must have sold Bonnaroo, huh?
10:45
I think. No, they still do it. I
10:46
Thought they sold it Or what? To who? C3
10:49
Superfly or something. Well, C3.
10:50
No, no. Live Nation. Live Nation.
10:52
They did sell it to Live Nation. Well,
10:53
C3 is Live Nation too.
10:55
So they might have sold a C3 before they went to it. Damn.
10:57
It's all like a big monopoly soon. I
10:59
Know. Yeah.
10:59
Well, whatever. Pretty Exciting.
11:01
What else are you mad at me about?
11:03
That's it. Nice. Just existing?
11:06
No, just having my own life and
11:08
No, I work hard for you and you work hard for me.
11:11
We have f*****g, we work hard. We have gr
11:12
Relat. I think we have a really good working relationship.
11:14
Actually. We do. You've never yelled at
11:15
everybody says you yell at them. I, I never,
11:17
Never yelled at you. I
11:18
Don't think I've ever done anything. Everyone
11:20
Who said I'm f*****g yell at, at.
11:22
Just kidding. I was kidding.
11:23
Just trying to get under your, but I,
11:25
I probably Bo I think you've yelled at Bo
11:26
I've yelled at Bo yelled.
11:28
I, no, I yelling. Just got frustrated.
11:30
I think you're more of a passive aggressive
11:32
guy. When you get mad at people.
11:33
I normally yell at a mirror.
11:35
Yeah. The thing is, you don't beat anybody up
11:37
harder than you beat yourself up. So
11:39
Why do we do that to ourselves? I
11:40
Dunno. I don't know. It's
11:41
just natural, I guess.
11:43
Stupid, But people are like, Andy can be
11:45
so I'm like, he's always nice to me.
11:46
Maybe you should show up on time and do your f*****g job.
11:53
Tell him how You feel, Nick, Mr. On time. Never, you
11:56
Know? Yeah.
11:57
Only minimal mistakes.
11:58
I am a human being. I'm not perfect or anything.
12:00
I don't complain about doing my job.
12:02
Mm. No, you're right. I don't. No.
12:05
Or do I? No, I don't think so.
12:06
Not anymore than like a normal person. No.
12:09
I mean, you cannot, you're allowed to complain sometimes.
12:11
It's okay to Complain. Yeah. No.
12:13
But just not can't, you can't make it your personal. What
12:15
Do you complain about?
12:18
Hmm. Am I a big, I don't think I'm a big complainer.
12:22
You're not a complainer, but
12:23
I'm more of a pointer outer of observe. I like to,
12:25
That's complaining. Yeah. But
12:27
More about stuff for other people.
12:29
I don't, I'm, nothing's really p*****g me off right now.
12:32
You'll really grudge my gears.
12:34
Maybe this politics are kind of annoying,
12:35
but that's everybody's
12:36
complaining about. That's normal. That's,
12:38
I, yeah. I don't know too
12:39
much about politics.
12:40
I'm starting to get into like,
12:42
just hearing people's opinions.
12:43
So I'm hearing every side
12:44
of the opinion, which is kind of cool.
12:45
Yeah. But it's also getting me confused.
12:48
It's very confusing because everybody's so dumb too.
12:51
Everyone's dumb and they all think they're f*****g smart.
12:53
And it's just like, then I'm just like, damn,
12:55
am I dumb? Or it's
12:56
Like, the more readily you give your opinion,
12:58
the less interested than I am.
12:59
Like, am I dumb thinking these people are dumb?
13:02
Hmm. No. You're allowed to have your own opinion too.
13:04
Okay. But anyway, this is not the talk.
13:07
This is a music festival episode.
13:09
Yeah. But we're not even saying anything about politics.
13:11
We're just saying shut up about it.
13:12
What about the politics of being in a music festival?
13:14
Oof. There's gotta be a ton of,
13:15
and there's a lot of politics.
13:16
There's gotta, dude, there's Bureaucracy.
13:19
Red tape. These guys deal with,
13:20
I'm trying to see. It's like high
13:21
School, probably like trying to get
13:22
to high school prom date. You know, think
13:25
About with every state has a festival trying
13:28
to book the same bands.
13:29
Mm-hmm. And the bands are like, I want to take every show.
13:32
So the agents have to really like, negotiate Uhhuh.
13:36
You're, you're cutting out the radius clause for this.
13:39
So they could do this if you want this type of deal.
13:40
So it's like, it's a juggle man.
13:42
Yeah. Like, for my show opening you for August,
13:45
I was like, I'm not doing a radius clause.
13:47
You do radius clause. They tried to make me,
13:49
I was like, I'll do one before, but not after. What'd
13:50
They say? 60
13:51
days or something on either side.
13:53
I'm like, I'm just opening. Okay.
13:54
It's a free show. Yeah.
13:56
I think it's just a standard thing. They put in everything.
13:57
Yeah. I was just f*****g It's
13:59
Live Nation too. Yeah.
14:00
My show's three months. My show
14:01
before is three months ahead, so it
14:02
Wasn't Are you excited for your big show
14:05
Opening for you at Levitt?
14:07
No. Oh. Well, that already
14:08
Happened. That's that's the biggest one
14:09
you've done in a while.
14:10
Yeah. It'll be sick. Um,
14:12
But, uh, no. Don't you have another
14:13
show, like a headline show? Yeah. But
14:14
That had already happened at this point. I'm
14:15
opening for Victor on Friday. Oh yeah?
14:17
Yeah. How was that great
14:19
Band Smashed to Victor Wooten Brothers are
14:21
incredible. Great crowd.
14:23
Seemed like a killer show. Everyone was stoked.
14:25
Everyone was super stoked. The band's really good.
14:26
We're better than ever. That's how you do it. The Colt baby.
14:31
Ah, funny. I am stoked for the Lovet Pavilion thing.
14:33
I haven't played there in a while. I played there
14:35
with Opio in two years ago.
14:36
That was fun. I love that
14:38
Place, Dude. It's fun as s**t.
14:39
I think more people are going to that now. I think they're
14:42
Getting outta the little Red Rocks vortex.
14:44
Yeah. I mean, and like, it's so hard
14:46
to get dates anymore at Red Rocks, so it's like, you might
14:49
as well do a big show in your local town. When
14:52
I first moved here, red Rocks had like 80 shows a year.
14:56
Now they have like 200 at. I feel it's crazy.
14:58
Yeah. They, they're, they're,
14:59
they started booking Red Rocks now in March.
15:01
Yeah. I've played my,
15:03
my first year the f**k I played here,
15:04
I played Red Rocks four times the first year I lived here.
15:07
Right. And it was like a way
15:09
different kind of bands were playing here.
15:11
It was more of like a th it felt like more
15:12
of a thing now, Pete.
15:14
It's like a gig. Mm-hmm.
15:15
Do you think the Mission Ballroom did that?
15:17
Yep. I love going to Mission.
15:19
Um, speaking of Red Rocks, I have shows to announce.
15:22
Oh, you're playing? Um, I'm going on tour.
15:24
We're going on our little bus tour, little summer tour. Oh.
15:27
June 12th, Washington DC Ooh. Um, I,
15:30
For my brother to come, um,
15:32
What is that, the nine 30 Club? Yeah.
15:35
Yep. That's in dc. Yeah.
15:36
June 13th, Dewey Beach. Excited to go back there.
15:38
Oh, Ryan Felipe. Ryan.
15:40
Felipe the 14th. We're at Northlands.
15:42
Where's that with Ally Crawl?
15:44
Is that a festival? Yeah, it's in,
15:46
uh, Swansea, new New Hampshire. Take
15:47
A breath. Heartburn.
15:48
I got
15:49
A little heartburn. I drank
15:50
too much coffee today. Mm. Uh, the 15th we're doing.
15:54
Oh, we're doing a private party. But damn, those,
15:56
those old Jews love my ass.
15:58
I'm doing a private party.
15:59
That horror is paying off. That
16:00
Horror is paying off.
16:01
Shout out dude.
16:03
Every time you do the horror,
16:05
you get another 10 grand. A little more though.
16:08
Um, straight from
16:09
Trek, straight from the Israel.
16:11
Straight. Jesus
16:13
F*****g Christ.
16:15
Um, then I got three days off.
16:17
And then we head to Almont Colorado. Almont Colorado.
16:19
Listen, I'm actually coming this time. Is
16:21
This the one you had to Second time?
16:22
I've canceled. I'm not, I will not cancel.
16:25
You canceled twice on them
16:26
Once I was sick.
16:28
'cause of Red Rocks. The other one
16:29
that we thought there was gonna be a sword.
16:30
Weather. Weather, uh, a snowstorm.
16:32
Because the next day was, um, uh, mission bar.
16:36
So we canceled it and then it was a f*****g beautiful day.
16:38
And I, I got s*****d on. That's
16:40
Fair. I'm sorry.
16:41
But I will be playing at June 19th. June 20th.
16:44
Cheyenne, Wyoming. Oh, fun, fun. I'm excited with that.
16:47
Then 21st. Excited
16:48
for this one free show at Steamboat Springs, Colorado.
16:51
22nd free show in, I'm trying to,
16:54
it's the econ Economy plan.
16:57
Yeah. I'm trying to do a lot more free shows. So yeah.
16:59
So everyone could afford to go.
17:02
Um, the 22nd Huntsville, Utah, 25th. Jackson.
17:06
Jackson Hole, Wyoming, 26th. Pine Creek. Rich People.
17:10
I'm excited. Livington Montana.
17:12
Uh, Missoula, Montana on the 27th. Boise on the 28th.
17:16
And then High Sierra Music Festival. Oh s**t.
17:19
Three and four. Then I fly the fifth to Sherman, New York
17:23
for Blue Heron Music
17:25
Festival. That sounds fun.
17:26
Long drives though.
17:28
Long drives. But we Have ready Gonzo. We have the tour
17:30
Bus or the bandwagon.
17:32
Get ready. Gonzo. Gonzo. Get ready.
17:33
You better put something on his poop.
17:35
Eye of the tiger on baby Uber hand job
17:36
card he's got going. Yeah. Better
17:38
Start Lubing up that arm.
17:41
It's so weird. He likes to beat off while driving. Wait,
17:45
What? I didn't know this part.
17:46
You don't know This? I only know about the him getting,
17:48
He says it relaxes him.
17:51
Yeah. I don't want my driver too relaxed.
17:55
I mean, at night, you know, it's like, I get it.
17:57
You drink seven cups of coffee. It's four in the morning.
18:00
There's no one on the road crank one
18:02
out. But I've never done that. We've all
18:03
Been there. That's kind of weird. I mean, no,
18:04
I haven't even, I've never
18:05
Jerked off while driving.
18:06
No, I'm looking at my phone.
18:08
It's too busy to, I can't do three things. F*****g
18:11
Weird.
18:12
No, I didn't know about that. I knew about the other thing
18:14
we talked about last time with the, uh, massage parlors.
18:17
Oh yeah. He loves that too.
18:19
Guy loves getting jerked off,
18:20
I guess, no matter who does it.
18:23
All right guys. Enjoy Tom Russell. Enjoy everything.
18:27
And Nick, uh, cheer up. Charlie.
18:29
I'm fine. What are you talking about? Cheer up.
18:31
IOR was my nickname in high school though. You
18:33
Do kind of, you are out sometimes.
18:35
Why? If I brag about some types of money,
18:38
like Oh, lucky you.
18:40
I've never said that. I don't think I said Wow. Nice.
18:42
When you told me about some gig you had
18:43
yesterday. That's sick. Oh,
18:45
Lucky you. I didn't say that.
18:46
You're just making, now you're making s**t up.
18:48
Ooh, just, oh, okay.
18:49
Just wait for me while I, Andy put me in
18:52
The closet. Andy wants to make
18:54
A fake. That's so
18:55
Funny's. Great movie though.
18:56
I know. What's that movie called?
18:58
Indian In the Cupboard. It's also
18:59
famous children's book. It's a great
19:01
Movie. Yeah.
19:02
It's also a book. I don't,
19:03
I hope you don't I don't feel that way towards It's
19:06
A joke. We're on a podcast,
19:07
Andy. I
19:07
Know. I have to tell.
19:08
I forgot you were sensitive. Yeah, everyone is.
19:11
Everyone doesn't like me right now.
19:13
Oh, really? Yeah. Oh, well. But they like you in
19:17
Salaries. I'm being strict. Dad.
19:18
What do you mean? I'm just Being stricter.
19:19
Like, on the road. Like what?
19:20
You have to be in bed by midnight or what?
19:23
Not that district, but
19:24
Like, like how strict can you be? They're adult.
19:25
I'm just not partnering with them as much. Mm-hmm.
19:28
You don't have to. It's actually good. Yeah.
19:30
It's not a, it's a business
19:31
Trying to lay down laws.
19:32
Yeah. It's good to think about trying
19:34
To keep us alive. Try to
19:35
living past 75 or Yeah.
19:37
Six. Trying to have that with the old band.
19:39
Yeah. I don't think that's bad. Okay.
19:41
I'm not mad at you at all.
19:42
I'm not mad that you're making money.
19:44
I don't know why you have this in your head.
19:45
You think I'm out to get you. These
19:46
Guys think I'm these Guys.
19:47
I like when you do Well, I'm attached to you.
19:49
So the better you do, the better.
19:51
It's for me. Actually, this
19:52
Is the thing about friendship, right?
19:54
Is I'm not talking about you about this.
19:56
I know. Just trying to, you did just
19:57
Say you though, before that.
19:59
I know. I It was a joke. Like you said. It's a
20:01
Podcast. Okay.
20:03
All right. I gotta go. Bye. No, no, no, no, no, no, no.
20:05
We're done.
20:10
And we're live. You know, not every day we get
20:12
to talk to a talent buyer.
20:14
Um, we have Governor Ball,
20:17
the are you the founder of Governor's Ball?
20:20
I am a co-founder of Governor's Ball.
20:22
Ladies and gentlemen, we have Tom Russell on the show.
20:25
Co-founder. This isn't no ordinary f*****g jam band vessel.
20:30
This is the real deal. Holy field.
20:32
And we got Tom Russell baby. How you doing bud?
20:35
I am hanging in there. How are you guys?
20:37
I'm good. What's getting there?
20:38
What is the, what's the dynamic like being a talent buyer
20:42
in 2025?
20:44
Well, I gotta, I gotta let you guys know
20:46
I'm not a talent buyer.
20:48
Oh, well, running a festival.
20:51
Um, the festival space is really interesting right now.
20:55
Feels like there's just so many of them. Right.
20:58
It used to be, used to be just Bonnaroo. Mm-hmm.
21:01
And, uh, God, what was that one called?
21:04
Um, up where Electric Forest is now Rothbury, uh, Rothbury.
21:08
Yeah. Yeah. That was it. Maybe gathering of the Vibes. Yeah.
21:11
And then, you know, Lollapalooza
21:14
and then Austin City Limits.
21:15
So, you know, you had this rapid growth
21:17
and nowadays I feel like every, um, primary market,
21:21
secondary market and tertiary market has a festival.
21:24
Right. Crowded space.
21:25
So how do you, uh, how do you know what bands to pick
21:28
for a bigger festival?
21:29
Like then how big are these radius clauses?
21:32
The radius clauses vary by, by show and market.
21:36
My issue with New York City is
21:38
that it's every band's best market. I know.
21:40
Yeah. Yeah. Right. Every, Every artist
21:41
wants to play here.
21:43
So that means a couple things for me.
21:45
It means that their talent fee is gonna be
21:48
rather high, right?
21:49
Mm-hmm. Right. Because they're giving up
21:50
that New York City play.
21:52
Um, and, you know, we're competing with the Garden
21:56
and Barclay Center
21:57
and, um, Brooklyn Paramount, Brooklyn Steel,
22:00
all these amazing venues.
22:01
And, you know, a lot of bands want their own look. Right.
22:04
In a market like New York. Mm-hmm.
22:06
So why For us at Gun Ball,
22:07
it's just putting together the best package
22:08
that we can to stand out.
22:11
'cause we're, we're competing with,
22:12
uh, the City of New York.
22:14
Yeah. So what's, uh,
22:15
what's your pitch on them not taking a, uh,
22:18
Barclay Center show
22:19
and taking a government's governor's ball offer?
22:22
So it depends on the act, right?
22:23
You, you pitch acts in different ways.
22:25
But, um, if you're a headliner, I'd make the argument that,
22:29
um, you are gonna be playing in front
22:32
of 40 plus thousand people.
22:34
Right. That's more people than the Garden Barclay Center.
22:37
Mm-hmm. You're gonna be playing in front of an audience
22:39
that includes your fans, but also others.
22:41
Mm-hmm. So it's a great opportunity to gain new fans.
22:44
And it's also a chance to play in a venue
22:47
that very few people have played.
22:49
Right. A couple years ago we moved
22:50
to Flushing Meadows Corona Park, which is one
22:54
of the nicest parks in the city.
22:55
It's in Queens.
22:57
And, uh, you know, it goes back to the, um, you know, early
23:00
to mid 19 hundreds.
23:02
And it's just an incredible, incredible venue.
23:04
Uh, they had two world's fairs there.
23:06
It's where that massive unisphere is. Mm-hmm.
23:08
You're familiar with that? Yeah.
23:10
Uh, so it's just a, a really, really vibey unique venue.
23:13
And, uh, there's really a, a magic about it.
23:16
And I think with any venue, whether it's in New York City
23:18
or Denver or, or Topeka, right.
23:21
There's a, there's a vibe in a room mm-hmm.
23:23
Or a vibe in a park. And this, this park is rather vibey.
23:25
When did this thing start blowing up?
23:27
I know this was like a, you know, it's
23:29
after how many years did it take for this thing
23:31
to really become a thing in New York?
23:34
So we started in 2011, and I,
23:37
before that I worked at a company called Superfly.
23:40
Oh yeah. We started Bonnaroo. Right.
23:42
And, um, you know, so I had always wanted to kind
23:46
of have my own festival in my, in my hometown.
23:49
And, uh, in about 2010 we started to see this,
23:52
this cultural shift toward festivals where, you know,
23:56
bands wanted to play them more
23:57
and fans wanted to experience festivals.
23:59
And, um, you know, more and more of them were popping up
24:02
and doing well.
24:04
We were just coming outta the financial crisis. Right.
24:07
And, um, it seemed like a good time
24:09
to, you know, try it out.
24:12
So I called up two buddies of mine
24:14
and they were at similar places at their jobs.
24:16
And, um, you know, we all left our jobs
24:18
and made this our primary focus and launched in 2011.
24:21
But it was super small. Yeah. Right.
24:24
Where, you know, it's super, it was a 18,000 person event.
24:27
Our headliners were Empire of the Sun,
24:30
pretty Lights Girl Talk.
24:32
Uh, it was pretty niche. I call it like party music. Mm-hmm.
24:35
Electronic. But, you know, it's got a funky beat to it.
24:38
It's fun. Yeah. And, uh, it was just different.
24:41
So it was a one day event
24:43
and it was a little bit of a proof of concept.
24:46
And it worked. You know, we, we made a little bit
24:48
of money enough to come back in year two.
24:50
And then in year two we lost a little bit of money. Mm-hmm.
24:53
And we were pretty much even,
24:55
and we decided let's throw all of our chips in the middle
24:59
and see if this thing works.
25:02
'cause we always wanted to be that major music festival.
25:04
Like a Lala or an ACL or Bon Roo. Yeah.
25:07
So we, um, we quadrupled our talent budget more than that.
25:11
Uh, we moved venues to a, a bigger venue
25:14
and we went for some huge acts
25:16
and we ended up booking, uh, Kings of Leon, Kanye West,
25:21
uh, guns N Roses, the xx, Kendrick Lamar.
25:24
Like, everything just kind of fell into place.
25:27
And I think partially that was, uh,
25:28
because it was a unique offer for the artists,
25:31
but, you know, there was no dynamic
25:32
ticketer pressing at that time.
25:34
Right, right. Yeah.
25:35
Some of these artists were able to, you know, get paid more
25:38
to play the festival than they would play in the
25:40
garden at Broccoli Center. Nowadays, it's not like that.
25:43
Yeah. Do you think dynamic ticketing has
25:45
f****d the festival scene?
25:47
Um, it has made it harder to get some talent. Right.
25:51
It used to be if bands really wanted to make money,
25:53
they play a festival.
25:55
Right. And, you know, nowadays you could play the garden
25:58
and if you dynamically price your
26:00
tickets, you can make more.
26:01
Yeah. Or you play a stadium and you can make a lot more.
26:04
Uh, so it's made it trickier to book artists.
26:07
Um, I think what's unique to festivals is that festivals
26:11
don't dynamically price their tickets.
26:14
Right. Right. Right. You can't, they,
26:15
that ticket price is on their website Yeah.
26:18
For everybody to see. It's not changing. Yeah.
26:20
So do you think like these, uh,
26:23
tick not these Ticketmaster,
26:24
but these companies that are like monopolizing
26:27
with the promoters
26:28
and with, do you think it's, it's f*****g up the growth
26:32
of like, developing bands?
26:36
Uh, it's a interesting question.
26:39
And I'm not a talent buyer,
26:40
so I'm not sure whether I'm best suited to answer this.
26:42
But I will say this, when it comes to dynamic pricing,
26:46
everybody's in the mix on it.
26:47
Everybody knows what's happening. Yeah.
26:49
Everyone's getting their f*****g pennies too.
26:50
Right. The manager, the artist, the promoter, the venue.
26:53
Like, everybody's getting a piece
26:54
and everybody's signing off on it.
26:56
So, you know, if it is making it harder,
26:58
it's a collective decision
27:00
Yeah. To do
27:01
what's best for them. Right, right.
27:03
And then, you know, what it does to the macro environment,
27:05
I, I couldn't tell you, but I think, you know, as these,
27:09
as these concert tickets get more
27:10
and more expensive, I think festivals provide real value.
27:13
Right. To see a shitload
27:14
of bands for not that much money.
27:16
And there's, you know, multiple payment plan options
27:18
to spread out that cost and different ways to experience it.
27:22
Um, I think, uh, you know,
27:24
it gives really great bang for your buck.
27:27
Do you think, uh, COVID f****d the, uh,
27:30
the sleeping at the festival type of festival?
27:32
Yeah.
27:34
I think that more festivals popping up killed that. Yeah.
27:39
Oh yeah. True. Supplying demand.
27:41
Man, I think it used to be like the, the big camping
27:43
festivals were the only major ones out there.
27:44
Right. I mentioned Bonnaroo earlier in Rothbury. Yeah.
27:47
Like, there weren't that many festivals around at that time.
27:49
And if you wanted to see a sick jam band
27:51
festival, those are your options. Right.
27:53
Yeah, Totally. Nowadays music,
27:55
music tastes have evolved a lot.
27:57
Um, there's a festival in every market, so it's a heck
28:01
of a lot cheaper to go see a show,
28:03
a festival in New York City than it is to, you know,
28:05
get in a car, rent a car, drive down to Bonnaroo,
28:08
or a camping festival
28:10
and, you know, camp out for four nights. Just easier.
28:13
And it's more comfortable. Yeah.
28:14
And it's more comfortable to go hang out.
28:16
Exactly. A much different experience though. Right.
28:18
Not to knock Bonnaroo. 'cause that's, you know, right.
28:20
Those are my roots right there. And I think that festival's,
28:22
you know, one of the best of all time, it's just, uh,
28:24
it's just so different.
28:25
And it, it's a different financial expenditure.
28:28
Emotional expenditure, and, uh, just different vibe.
28:32
Is there beef between Bonnaroo and Governor's Ball?
28:35
There's like a Tupac Biggie beef.
28:37
There's like, were they p****d
28:39
that you started your own festival?
28:40
Prodigal son? Like is there's, give us some dirt
28:43
with owner to owner. Right.
28:45
So I was at Superfly from 2006 to 2010.
28:51
Um, I went to school at Tulane in New Orleans. Oh yeah.
28:54
And that's where my musical taste really expanded.
28:57
And, uh, prior to my freshman year, I went
28:59
to the first Bonnaroo had the best time of my life.
29:02
And I said, I gotta, I gotta do this for my profession.
29:05
I gotta intern at this company. Where are they based?
29:07
And it turned out that Superfly was based in New Orleans
29:10
where I was about to go to school.
29:12
So I begged them for an internship
29:13
and eventually got one, worked there for a, you know,
29:16
a good bit of time and learned the tricks
29:19
of the trade when it comes to festivals.
29:22
Um, and it got to the point
29:23
where I wanted to start my own thing.
29:24
So I went to my boss and I said, I wanna start my own thing.
29:26
And he goes, it's really risky.
29:29
And then I said to him, can you guarantee me
29:31
that I'll make a hundred thousand
29:32
dollars by the time I'm 30?
29:35
Oh, yeah. You were young when you
29:36
were with them, right? Like 26.
29:37
Yeah, I was, yeah. I was in my younger twenties. Yeah.
29:39
And he, he said, I think I can get you there,
29:41
but I can't put it in writing.
29:43
Wow. So I said, you know what, if you're not gonna do that,
29:46
then I'm gonna go, I'm gonna try this thing out.
29:48
'cause I knew that if it failed,
29:50
like I could maybe get a job back at
29:51
Superfly or I could figure it out.
29:53
And you're Young. Um,
29:54
and I was pretty young, so, you know,
29:57
I left and I tried it out.
29:58
But those guys were all super supportive.
30:00
And I learned everything I know in this industry
30:04
from my Superfly days.
30:05
Right. So working on Bonnaroo and outside Lands,
30:08
and at that time the industry was so different, you know,
30:11
it was the, everybody was independent
30:13
and it was real, it was a real family.
30:16
Right. And, you know, there, there was no hiding of info.
30:18
Everybody was in it together.
30:20
Everybody was emotionally attached.
30:22
And, um, you know, when I left, they,
30:25
they were always very supportive.
30:26
And I'm still such close friends with, uh,
30:28
the Superfly guys who've moved on from Bonnaroo.
30:30
Yeah. Um, and I'm super close with the, the folks
30:33
who currently run Bonnaroo.
30:34
I still go every year. Yeah.
30:36
Oh, that's awesome. Yeah.
30:37
Richard Slavin's, one of my, uh, old managers.
30:40
Cool. And, uh, so it's like learning about the,
30:43
I'm learning about the dynamics between,
30:45
because my question is, when you're taking that step
30:48
to make it a bigger festival,
30:50
and you're tripling your budget,
30:51
how you getting funding for this?
30:53
Who, who's saying yes to this? Like, what the f**k?
30:56
You're like, I got this big idea.
30:58
I want to get these bigger bands who's saying yes
31:00
to stuff in the riskiest industry in the world?
31:01
It's the riskiest f*****g thing on the
31:02
planet who's saying yes to this?
31:04
All right. So when I, when we started Gov Ball,
31:06
we put together a 12 page business plan.
31:09
Yeah. Talked about the rise of music festivals.
31:13
We talked about how we were, you know,
31:14
in the US we're all just following what they do in Europe.
31:17
Right. We're always a few years behind them. Yeah. Right.
31:19
Uh, and at that time, there were
31:20
so many festivals doing well in Europe.
31:22
So, you know, I crafted the, we crafted this business plan
31:25
that, that showed that, you know,
31:26
festivals were a growing segment.
31:28
Um, these city festivals specifically were doing great,
31:31
but New York City didn't have one.
31:33
Uh, we did an analysis of the bands that we wanted to get
31:36
and their ticket sales history in the market, you know,
31:38
a pretty well thought out business plan, um, showed it
31:41
to basically friends and family.
31:43
And we raised 700 grand for year one. Wow.
31:47
And we used that money to launch the festival.
31:50
Now that money would not have covered us if, uh,
31:54
if s**t really hit the fan.
31:57
So, yeah. Right. You know, we raised as much as we could.
31:59
We booked the bands, we went on
32:00
sale, and we hoped for the best.
32:01
And we were really, really lucky. Right.
32:04
On year two when we lost the money,
32:06
we had to get a bridge loan.
32:08
Um, and that carried us through
32:10
to year three when we went on sale.
32:13
And for year three, you know, when we had that big lineup,
32:17
um, you know, we were really, all
32:19
of our asses were on the line.
32:20
'cause if it didn't go well, we were already in debt. Right.
32:23
It's over. Yeah. And, you know, we'd have
32:24
to pull the show down, negotiate with these agents
32:26
for a kill fee and, you know, just eggs on our faces.
32:30
Um, but it worked out.
32:33
We sold a lot of tickets and since then, it's kind of been,
32:35
uh, you know, not smooth sailing by any means,
32:38
but, um, we've been growing and doing well.
32:41
People don't realize how f*****g expensive it it is
32:44
to start have a festival, to make a festival.
32:47
It's people think the promo, the,
32:49
the owners are just making a s**t ton of money.
32:51
Why don't you break it down how expensive it really is
32:53
to put on a festival.
32:56
Um, this year's gov ball will cost 25
32:59
to $26 million at the total expense.
33:02
F*****g Christ. Yeah.
33:05
What, so what, what's the most,
33:06
what's your most expensive stuff outside of talent? It
33:09
Typically you are gonna go,
33:11
you're gonna see like half talent,
33:13
half production and operations.
33:15
Right. You know, and then it really falls off.
33:18
And then you get to, you know, marketing, um,
33:21
insurance, stuff like that.
33:22
But site operate, site production,
33:25
and then talent really, um,
33:26
comprise the bulk of the expenses.
33:28
You gotta be a real crazy person to f*****g
33:31
have the balls to do this.
33:33
Tom, this is, maybe we should put you in charge
33:35
of the federal government budget.
33:37
Yeah. Maybe we should put you. Yeah.
33:38
You should be our guy. Sounds like you know what
33:40
You're doing. I mean, look, I don't
33:41
know if you want somebody
33:42
that's gonna take a crazy risk,
33:43
like literally putting your ass on the line
33:45
Yeah. But is like
33:47
Yeah. Yeah. Who Happens.
33:48
Yeah. Whoops.
33:49
Um, but you know, I think everybody who, um, you know,
33:52
everybody, you gotta take a swing.
33:53
Yeah. Yeah. You gotta try it.
33:54
You know, my coming from the Bonnaroo days, you know,
33:58
and the, especially in the early days, it was such, um,
34:01
you know, there's real magic at these festivals.
34:03
Yeah. Especially in Bonnaroo. Mm-hmm.
34:05
And I think I was just bit by that bug
34:07
and I was just so driven to bring my hometown
34:11
of New York City a music festival
34:13
because there's no reason why New York City
34:15
shouldn't have its own festival.
34:16
I agree. Yeah. Like, um, 8 million people. Right. Yeah.
34:20
I didn't really know at that time that like, you know,
34:22
it's such an expensive city
34:24
and like you're competing against every
34:26
amazing venue in the city.
34:27
Yeah. Because there's just so much
34:28
good programming at all times.
34:29
Yeah. And that's why in 2013, we just put together a lineup
34:33
that was so big that people just couldn't say no to it.
34:36
Right. That's, it's, yeah. It's insane.
34:39
It's like, I feel like Coachella too,
34:41
before Coachella, what was California's festival mm-hmm.
34:45
Didn't Have much. So why is it, why is,
34:47
are people intimidated
34:49
to put these festivals in these 20 million,
34:51
20 million people Cities?
34:53
Marcus? Yeah. Marcus.
34:55
Well, I think most bigger markets have festivals nowadays.
34:59
Um, and it's so expensive that if you're,
35:03
if you're like a day-to-day promoter Right.
35:05
You know, booking, you know, venues from 500 people
35:08
to let's just say 20,000,
35:11
the the risk is just not nearly as high as a festival.
35:14
Mm-hmm. You could launch a festival
35:16
and have crap ticket sales and lose millions of dollars
35:18
and that would just sink your entire year or your company.
35:21
Mm-hmm. So,
35:22
and I think that keeps a lot of the, the folks
35:24
that are in the territory business
35:25
or day-to-day booking business out at festivals.
35:27
'cause it's such a, a scary thing. Mm-hmm.
35:30
Um, and, you know, it also takes talent out of their rooms.
35:34
So, you know, they, they wanna keep the good
35:36
talent going to their rooms.
35:37
Right. Um, but it's such, it's such a big risk
35:41
and, uh, it just takes a, a certain type
35:43
of, a certain type of person.
35:45
And nowadays, like the, the cash flow
35:48
has really changed in terms of the, the needs for cash flow.
35:51
Like when we started, we raised 700 grand.
35:55
We had to pay the artists 25% upon confirming. Mm.
36:00
Oh my god. Damn
36:01
Right. Nowadays,
36:02
if you're an independent,
36:03
especially if nobody knows you, you have
36:05
to pay a hundred percent upon confirming. Yeah.
36:07
Wow. Right. So that can, could immediately
36:10
prevent you from, from moving forward right then and there.
36:13
Right. Yeah. We just so happened to,
36:15
to be at an earlier time in the, the US festival evolution
36:19
before festivals started canceling
36:21
and promoters started keeping people's money
36:23
or agents didn't get paid. Right. Right.
36:26
Yeah. Now it's like I normally see in my deals, uh,
36:29
when it's a really well-known festival, it's either half
36:33
or just the agent's fee.
36:35
Right. Is that still the same?
36:37
Yeah. Yeah. My question is when you're,
36:42
you're, you're a jam head, right?
36:44
We've I see the fish. Yeah. Yep.
36:46
Um, what do you, what's the, what do you think the state of
36:49
that industry is in 2000
36:52
Jam scene? Yeah.
36:53
Yeah. It's kind of dying, right? Um, yeah.
36:55
Is it, is there still one Yeah,
36:58
It's kind of fragmented a bit.
37:00
Right? Um, you know, Phish is still doing big numbers.
37:04
Goose is doing big numbers.
37:06
You know, you have bands that used
37:07
to do much bigger numbers like Mo
37:09
and String Cheese just doing, you know, different numbers.
37:12
Um, but I think there's still that,
37:14
that die hard fan base out there.
37:16
Mm-hmm. Right. You see like widespread panic
37:18
or string cheese going to markets and doing three night runs
37:22
and selling out immediately at a high ticket price.
37:24
Mm-hmm. Um, I think, you know,
37:27
that it'll be more regional touring.
37:29
Um, and there was like 5,000 cap rooms, three
37:32
to 5,000 cap rooms as opposed to the, you know,
37:35
the gardens or the arenas
37:37
Do blame that on fatigue them playing in every market,
37:42
playing every festival.
37:44
Do you think fatigue is part of that downside?
37:48
I don't know if it's fatigue. I think part of it is just,
37:50
um, you know, musical taste and evolution.
37:52
Yeah. Yeah. And how people consume music.
37:55
And it's just so, uh, there's just
37:58
so much out there nowadays.
37:59
Right. Right. There's so much
38:00
to choose from in terms of, in terms of music.
38:02
And also, you know, I've seen Phish a few times,
38:05
seen Weiser panic a few times our bullets.
38:07
And after the 105th show
38:10
or whatever it is, you're like, you know, I got two kids
38:13
and I wanna watch a TV show on a Friday night maybe,
38:16
and sleep as opposed to go see my 120th
38:19
show or whatever. It's,
38:20
I'm, I'm not going to Indiana again
38:22
to go see F*****g Fish brother.
38:26
Um, I don't care how good the grilled cheese is. Yeah.
38:29
Tell me a little bit of your take
38:31
of why the EDM scene blew up.
38:34
Um, you know, I think similar to Jam Scene, it's a,
38:36
it's a real family community oriented, um, fan base.
38:41
And, you know, people rally around that.
38:44
And I think, you know, similarly, I don't know, I don't know
38:48
that every, any show is the same.
38:50
Yeah. Right. I think that beauty of Jam bands is
38:53
that every show is different.
38:54
You never really know what you're gonna get.
38:55
And I think with electronic music, it's pretty similar
38:58
and there's a, a magic
38:59
and a specialness to, to those sorts of environments.
39:02
You can go see an indie rock band they put on an amazing
39:04
show, but it's the same show every night.
39:06
Right? Yeah. Same key and same energy bills,
39:08
same releases, all of that.
39:09
Yeah. With Jam and, and Electronic.
39:12
Um, you just never know what you're gonna get.
39:14
You get the good, the bad, the ugly, um,
39:16
or the epic that you'll never ever forget.
39:19
And I think that's what's, what's, um, led
39:22
to the staying power of, um, of those genres.
39:25
With that being said, Why are
39:26
There not as many of those type
39:28
of bands on Governor's Ball?
39:30
So we aren't as big of a festival as we need to be
39:35
to feature more genres?
39:36
Yeah. So when we started Gov Ball, we had this kind
39:40
of like indie, indie, electronic pop
39:45
rock rap mix, what I used to call party music.
39:48
Mm-hmm. Right. A funky beat.
39:49
It's upbeat, it's fun stuff you wanna hear at a party.
39:52
And then we expanded it in 2013 to feature hip hop
39:55
and indie rock and folk and all,
39:57
and electronic and all these genres.
39:58
We wanted to be that eclectic multi genre festival
40:01
that Bonnaroo Lala, ACL,
40:04
Glastonbury, all these other festivals were.
40:06
Uh, and we did great.
40:08
But as time went on, um, we started to, um,
40:12
see less demand for our tickets.
40:14
And we looked at the lineup and we said, you know what?
40:17
Maybe we need to take a little bit
40:18
of a, of a different direction.
40:19
Mm-hmm. Maybe for the EDM fan, you can't just have
40:23
one or two bands a day.
40:25
Maybe you need to have four or five or six bands a day.
40:28
Right. But we only have four stages, right? Mm-hmm.
40:31
So we don't have enough stages
40:33
and space to feature enough of every genre.
40:36
Right. And that's why, you know, that we went
40:39
through like a little bit of a hip hop period
40:40
where we're kind of honing in on hip hop Now I think we're
40:43
honing in a little bit more on kind of pop mm-hmm.
40:46
Rock. Um,
40:47
and you know, you look at Lala, they have, what,
40:51
eight, 10 stages, right?
40:52
110,000 people a day.
40:54
They have enough programming slots to feature everything
40:57
and to have enough to sell a ticket
40:59
to those dedicated genre fans.
41:01
Mm-hmm. But for me, I don't have as many slots,
41:03
so I gotta kind of really hone in on a, a lane, if you will.
41:07
Yeah. And, and that's been beneficial.
41:09
We've seen that, uh, the results of that, uh, positively
41:12
Kind of kinda like ACL, right? Yeah.
41:14
Yeah. Absolutely. ACL.
41:16
Uh, but ACL is much bigger and they do have more stages,
41:19
but I think Texas is just a unique animal
41:21
and they have that ACL brand has,
41:24
was alive well before the festival.
41:26
Right. Had a, you know, a, a big fan base of, of folks
41:30
who just appreciated songwriting and folk and Americana.
41:34
Um, they, they, they have it all.
41:36
But, uh, I think Lala
41:38
or Bonnaroo, you're just gonna see every
41:39
single genre under the sun.
41:41
Not a lot of Jewish bands in Texas.
41:45
I can say it, I'm Jewish, whatever.
41:46
Um, my que you know, you, you last year had my,
41:49
my best friends who I tour with a lot,
41:51
little stranger on the tour on uh, governor's Ball.
41:54
And, uh, they said how unique the experience is when
41:59
as you're curating for years on, I'm wondering,
42:01
was there any year that you just totally lost your ass,
42:06
Um, with Gov Ball?
42:07
No, we've been lucky in that, um, you know,
42:12
we only had that loss in year two.
42:14
Um, and it was a small one and we've been okay since then.
42:18
I think part of that is because of the market
42:20
and just the brand power.
42:22
Like we've been able to make up any shortcomings
42:24
and ticket sales with, um, partner activations
42:26
and sponsors mm-hmm.
42:28
Kind of creatively. Um,
42:31
but I have put on other shows that have, uh, have bombed
42:35
Well, gimme, gimme them, gimme a Yeah.
42:36
We want some stories. We want some stories
42:38
in some s****y situ.
42:39
We love Failure on this book. We
42:40
love failure on this podcast.
42:42
Alright, so in 20, um, 2016
42:45
or 2015, um, we were still independent.
42:48
The industry was consolidating a lot. Right.
42:51
Bonnaroo was, uh, Bonnaroo had, was sold off, um,
42:55
C3 sold to Live Nation.
42:57
Um, live Nation, a EG Were kind of getting into a, you know,
43:00
just stepping up the competition.
43:02
And a EG was, um, trying to come to New York
43:04
to do a festival and they had a, a lobbyist
43:08
that was connected to the mayor.
43:09
Um, and were able to, uh, get Flushing Meadows, Corona Park,
43:16
which is the venue that we're in now, right?
43:18
Mm-hmm. And they came to us
43:19
and said, look, we we're close with the mayor.
43:21
We have this venue. We would like to work together to, um,
43:27
uh, to put this festival on together.
43:29
So, you know, we wanna do a deal with you.
43:30
We said, okay, we're interested.
43:32
So we talked to them for a while.
43:34
Um, wasn't, didn't work out, wasn't a fit.
43:38
Um, but from that conversation, we started to get the sense
43:41
that we really needed to muscle up
43:43
to compete in this new landscape.
43:45
Yeah. Right. The bands were getting paid more money.
43:48
Tickets were starting to be dynamically priced.
43:50
You know, if you lost your ass, you're outta business.
43:53
And we needed a financial backstop
43:55
and a partner that could help us grow.
43:57
So a EG reached out, didn't really didn't make sense.
44:00
Um, so we started talking to Live Nation
44:03
and to Madison Square Garden.
44:05
And, uh, we talked to the kind of executive level, uh,
44:11
folks at those companies
44:12
and it was very clear who was more our speed.
44:15
And those were the, the folks at Live Nation. Yeah.
44:18
Just pragmatic leadership. Um, really smart.
44:22
Uh, it was clear they were gonna let us operate
44:23
the business as we have been.
44:25
And, you know, we can continue to do our thing
44:27
and be as independent as possible,
44:29
but be a part of a bigger team team.
44:31
So we did a joint venture with them, um,
44:33
and we had this financial backstop,
44:35
so we said, f**k yeah, great.
44:37
We have a bank. Let's do more festivals.
44:41
Here we go. Here we go.
44:43
So, uh, a EG had launched his Panorama Festival in July
44:48
of 2016, I wanna say.
44:51
And that was the one that they,
44:52
they ended up not getting the park that they said they had.
44:54
They had to do it with our Randall's Island.
44:56
Um, but, you know, we had Gov Ball,
44:58
which then was on Randall's Island, uh, in early June.
45:01
You had Panorama in, you know, end of July.
45:04
Um, and we, we thought
45:06
that maybe another festival could work in
45:08
New York City in the fall.
45:10
Hmm. For two reasons. Number one, most
45:13
of the time bands will play in, um, they'll play
45:18
in the city in the spring and then come back in the fall.
45:21
Or they won't play in the city.
45:22
They'll do Europe, or they'll do the South
45:24
and then they'll come play the city in the fall.
45:26
So we knew there was gonna be a big crop
45:28
of bands playing in the fall.
45:29
Yeah. Great bands to choose from.
45:31
And there were no festivals in the fall in New York City.
45:33
Um, doing one in New York could, you know,
45:36
a band could route from a New York festival in September all
45:39
the way down to ACL, um, in Austin, Texas.
45:43
Right. You could play Music Midtown in between go to Austin.
45:45
So we thought, you know, we could get the bands,
45:48
we know New York's a proven Market Gov Ball works.
45:50
It's getting competitive. Let's, let's do it.
45:53
So we put together this festival called The Meadows Okay.
45:57
And came out in year one with Kanye West Chance the Rapper,
46:02
um, the weekend.
46:04
Geez. Uh, this great lineup,
46:06
this really fantastic lineup.
46:09
Um, sales were okay. Sales were
46:12
Okay. What's okay to you?
46:14
Um, the Kanye and Chance the Rapper Day was great.
46:16
That show sold out 40,000. Cool. The weekend day was slower.
46:20
It was in the low twenties.
46:22
And about two weeks
46:24
before the show, uh, we get a call
46:26
that the weekend's pulling off.
46:28
Oh. Because he's playing, um,
46:32
he's playing SNL that night. That
46:34
That's right there. You can't do both.
46:37
Exactly. Well, apparently you can't do both.
46:39
Uh, because once you do the dress rehearsal,
46:41
you can't leave the building. Oh,
46:43
Wow. This is
46:44
live taping And like,
46:45
don't you have to work all week?
46:46
Yeah. Isn't it like they're all, they're there all week
46:48
to kinda like, prepare for that
46:50
Look. We asked all those
46:51
questions.
46:51
The vibe that we got was like, listen, the Weekend's doing
46:54
SNL, he's, he's not playing your festival anymore.
46:56
Wow. And we said, s**t.
46:58
And then we went to the agent said, who can we book?
47:00
They said J Cole. So we booked j Cole, I guess the weekend,
47:03
found out about this on social media, came back to us
47:05
and said he wanted to be back on and play.
47:07
Okay. Oh my God.
47:08
Now you're spending money on j Cole and the weekend. Right?
47:11
Exactly. Oh, no. Well,
47:13
We figured out how to do it. Right.
47:14
We were like, we were gonna be a winner for the fans.
47:16
Right. We booked, oh my God.
47:18
Amazing, amazing hip hop artist and Jay Cole.
47:20
We had the weekend. Right. Um,
47:22
And you got the Live Nation bank.
47:24
Yeah. And, and we had the financial ability to do that.
47:27
Yeah. Um, so we did it
47:30
and then a few days later the
47:31
weekend said, eh, it's too much.
47:32
Not gonna do it. Oh my
47:34
God. What the f**k?
47:36
Um, so he backed out and we had to kind of, um, you know,
47:40
manage that situation, which was, which was not easy.
47:43
Um, but it ended up being How'd you approach that?
47:48
At the end of the day, we are in the artist's business.
47:52
Yeah. Right.
47:53
And if the artist, we're gonna do whatever the artist wants
47:56
to do, you know,
47:58
so whether we like it or not, we have no choice.
48:00
'cause we wanna keep working with artists
48:01
that are putting on great
48:02
concerts and putting out great music.
48:04
Yeah. And if they have to bail on a show
48:07
because of a family issue, a personal issue,
48:10
emotional issue, or a conflict, like it stings,
48:14
we're gonna get angry, we're gonna get upset about it.
48:15
But like, it's what the artist wants to do.
48:17
We wanna keep working with the artist and as agents.
48:19
Artists. So you just roll with the punches. Yeah.
48:22
There's this, This like totem pole, right?
48:24
The artists are on the top. Right?
48:26
Then you have the managers. Yeah. Below that.
48:29
Then below that you have the agents. Yeah.
48:30
And at the very bottom you got the promoter. Yeah.
48:34
That's what, that's my question to you.
48:37
Like after getting f*****g your eyes gouged out
48:40
by all these f*****g people, how do you still
48:41
love the music industry?
48:43
Yeah.
48:44
Um, I'm a little bit jaded. Yeah. I will say.
48:48
But what makes me love the music industry is when you go
48:53
to a festival or a show
48:56
and you just, the f*****g band is killing it.
48:59
Yeah. And everybody is f*****g feeling it.
49:01
And you're like, this is why I do what I do. Yeah. Right.
49:04
Or you, you listen to a new record. Right.
49:06
And it's just, it's really hitting
49:08
and it's just giving you those chills
49:10
and you're like, f**k, this is so amazing.
49:12
That's what keeps me, that that's what keeps my heart
49:15
and soul in it through all the b******t.
49:18
Yeah. Well, I'm gonna f**k clap to that Tom. Justin.
49:21
Let's go baby. It's the music itself.
49:23
But wait, we didn't even get
49:25
to the part where I lost my shirt.
49:26
Well, I can't wait. Oh,
49:27
okay. Okay. Let's go. Yeah. Yeah. Good.
49:28
Alright. So we figure out Meadows year one.
49:31
Well, actually not really, because when Kanye played,
49:34
so the weekend was supposed to be on Saturday,
49:36
he bails for SNLJ.
49:37
Cole fills in, has a great set.
49:39
Sunday was the sold out day Chance the rapper
49:41
on his, you know, rise.
49:43
Mm-hmm. Uh, followed by Kanye West at his peak. Right.
49:47
Certainly not the, the current Kanye. I
49:49
Don't think he's at his peak anymore. Yeah.
49:50
Oh, maybe so.
49:51
Uh, he's on stage. He's on stage performing.
49:55
Um, we're about halfway through his set
49:57
and he stops the show runs off the stage
50:00
because his wife had been bound
50:03
and gagged in Paris during that robbery. Oh yes.
50:06
Oh my God. This is the same week. Wow. Dude.
50:09
Yeah. He's like, I gotta go Family emergency.
50:12
And he runs off the stage.
50:14
So we have 40,000 people in his venue.
50:16
Everybody's like, what the f**k is happening? Right.
50:19
They're so excited. 'cause Kanye put on this amazing
50:21
first half of the show.
50:22
Mm-hmm. Um, so I'm sprinting back to my trailer.
50:27
I'm getting with my crisis PR team, my social media team.
50:31
I'm on the phone with managers, with everybody
50:34
trying to figure out what's happening.
50:36
And, you know, as more time had elapsed, we started
50:38
to realize, you know,
50:39
that Kim Kardashian had been held at gunpoint.
50:41
Mm-hmm. All of these things.
50:43
Meanwhile, my social media team is saying, Hey Tom,
50:46
everybody thinks that, you know, we canceled the show.
50:48
They want their money back. Like,
50:49
uh, what do we say to these people?
50:50
What do we do? Yada, yada.
50:52
Because Kanye played 61% of his set time. So
50:57
61% Does that mean he still gets paid?
51:00
He got paid. F**k.
51:02
So what's the percentage before you can't pay him?
51:06
I'd like to say 50%. Yeah. Yeah. Okay, cool.
51:09
Not that that's in contract or anything,
51:10
but that's just, you know, that seems reasonable.
51:12
Seems reasonable. Yeah. Fair as s**t.
51:14
Um, so, you know, I'm trying
51:16
to figure out what to do to the fans.
51:17
'cause fans are p****d. They want their money back,
51:18
they think it's our fault, or they think it's just Kanye
51:20
being Kanye, so we should give them their money back.
51:22
Right? Mm-hmm. But as the, the news starts
51:24
to become more well known, we everybody starts
51:27
to be a little bit understanding
51:28
that it wasn't our fault Meadows Festival.
51:30
This is a terrible situation that happened
51:33
and, um, you know, it's okay.
51:35
Right. So, you know, Kanye goes to Paris,
51:39
we load out the site, we have this really unique year one,
51:43
and we start to talk to agents
51:45
and managers about bands
51:46
that are available for the next year.
51:48
So, you know, we get more
51:50
and more, um, uh, feedback from the agents and managers
51:55
and we're like, f**k, next year's crop
51:56
of artists in September is sick.
51:58
Yeah. You have the gorillas that are available.
52:01
You have the chili peppers that are available.
52:03
Um, you have Nas, you have Lizzo, um, you know,
52:08
you have this, uh, you have Jay-Z Yeah.
52:11
Hometown, Jay-Z. Oh my God. Massive.
52:14
So we're like, f**k yeah, right there.
52:15
This is one good way to come back from a Right.
52:18
You know, rocky year.
52:20
Um, so we booked this amazing lineup to this day,
52:22
I think one of the best lineups we've ever booked.
52:25
Put this thing on sale and it was a complete disaster. Oh
52:29
F**k Disaster. How with that lineup,
52:32
How, yeah. It seems impossible.
52:33
I'm still asking. Oh wow. Okay.
52:36
I'm, I still don't understand. There was no
52:38
Cause and effect that was apparent.
52:39
Huh? I mean, I could tell you maybe it was the venue
52:42
'cause it was in the city field parking lot.
52:44
Oh. Jay Z fans are older. They don't wanna go to that venue.
52:47
But like, I'm kind of,
52:48
of the belief if the talent lineup is good
52:49
enough, people will come.
52:51
It's like the field of dreams.
52:52
If you book them, they'll come. Yeah. Yeah. I love that.
52:55
Um, so, you know, maybe it was the venue,
52:58
maybe it was the bad Juju from year one and word of mouth.
53:02
Maybe gorillas, Jay-Z, red Chili Pepper fans,
53:05
maybe they want a proper bathroom.
53:06
Right. Maybe they don't wanna be at a festival. Right.
53:08
And at that time that I started to realize
53:11
that there was a shift in festivals where it started
53:14
to get real young.
53:15
Oh yeah. Mm-hmm. It used to be like older twenties
53:18
to mid thirties or mid twenties to like older thirties.
53:22
And then around 2017 it started
53:24
to get real young when kids started to realize
53:26
that Coachella was the f*****g coolest thing on the planet.
53:29
Yeah. But they couldn't convince their parents to fly them
53:31
to Indio, California.
53:34
I'll just go to my local festival here in New York City.
53:36
Right. And that's when Gov Ball started to see this influx
53:39
of super young people.
53:42
And we started to see it in our survey results that like,
53:45
people were p****d that these young kids were coming
53:47
and getting super drunk.
53:49
They were just acting a fool. Right.
53:51
And negatively impacting, um, you know,
53:54
music lovers experience at, at the festivals.
53:56
Mm-hmm. And I think that, you know, maybe
53:58
what the Meadows maybe, you know, this older fans were like,
54:01
eh, Jay-Z will play New York again.
54:03
The chili peppers are around every couple years.
54:04
I'll wait to see them at the Garden
54:06
or the Barclay Center as opposed to go to a festival
54:08
where maybe a kid might throw up on my sneaker.
54:11
Oh yeah, yeah. Right. And it's 95 degrees Max.
54:13
Makes sense. Yeah. Yeah, yeah. So when you saw that,
54:15
you're like, s**t, we gotta book younger bands.
54:18
Well, when I saw the ticket sales in day one, I was like,
54:21
f**k, how the f**k are we gonna get outta this one?
54:23
Right. Um, and you know, we talked with, uh, you know,
54:27
the team and we just, we played the show, tried
54:30
to cut expenses as much as possible
54:32
and, you know, just took that one on the chin. What
54:34
Did Live Nations say when they're like,
54:35
they probably were like, this is confusing.
54:37
How is this slam slam dunk? Yeah. This is a slam dunk.
54:39
Everybody, everybody was confused. Um, but you know what?
54:44
You, you take the loss and you move on. Right.
54:47
Nothing. Take the l Yeah.
54:48
Take the l and you and you keep going. It's
54:50
Kinda like the New York Knicks sometimes.
54:52
Yeah. The the l
54:53
You're speaking my language.
54:54
'cause I'm Knicks fan. Yeah. I'm back.
54:56
A lot of Ls my entire life. Yeah,
54:58
Dude, I'm a Laker fan.
54:59
We're, we're getting our asses stomped. Right.
55:01
I like all Cleveland teams. So I think I win this.
55:03
Yeah, that's true. That's true. Um,
55:05
Well, I think this year
55:06
you'll, you'll definitely win this. Yeah.
55:08
So my question is too, like when you get,
55:10
when you book these bigger bands, how many
55:13
of these agents saying, if you want this guy,
55:15
you're gonna need to take three of our smaller lineups too?
55:19
It happens a lot. Yeah.
55:21
Oh, okay. Is it mostly part of the deals?
55:23
It's not. It's not.
55:25
I think most of it is, you know, if you're dealing
55:27
with a agent for a headliner
55:29
or a sub headliner, um, you know, they're working
55:31
with an incredible artist that you want on your bill.
55:33
Right. Yeah. That agent certainly has, um,
55:36
is certainly smart has his finger on the pulse of,
55:39
of artists in general.
55:41
So when they're saying, I have these younger bands
55:43
that you should put on your show, you know, maybe
55:45
that could be the next headliner years down the road.
55:47
Right. So a level of trust that you have to a degree,
55:50
like we've had bands that have played, you know,
55:52
first up on the main stage at noon
55:55
that are now selling out two nights of the garden.
55:57
Right. Right. And that started, the reason why they got
55:59
that slot at 12 noon was
56:01
because it was an agent saying, Hey,
56:02
can you please book my younger band since you're also
56:05
booking the penultimate band? Right,
56:06
Right. Totally.
56:07
And we also listen to all the music, right.
56:09
Any submissions that come in where we're on Spotify,
56:11
we're listening to what we're going
56:12
to see them when they're in town next.
56:13
And we're, uh, we're a part of that curation.
56:16
Um, but, you know, we're all friends and,
56:18
and music lovers at the end of the day. So
56:21
Who, which agent is the hardest to deal with?
56:25
Well, again, I'm not a talent buyer, so I,
56:27
I thankfully cannot answer that question.
56:28
Which manager's, hardest manager deal
56:30
with which manager's easiest to deal with? Might be the,
56:33
Listen guys, I just deal with New York City
56:35
and the production and site. Okay.
56:37
So, okay. Then that's,
56:39
I will say this, all of the agents
56:41
and managers that are super tough, you know,
56:44
like Marsha Lasik, she's a tough agent.
56:47
Yeah, right. Incredibly intimidating.
56:50
But I love her to death and she's so smart
56:53
and, you know, she's dedicated to protecting her artists.
56:57
And is she a little crazy? Sure.
56:59
But like any executive
57:01
or any high power person is gonna be
57:03
a f*****g little bit crazy. I'm convinced.
57:06
What? So yeah, you have to be,
57:07
what's your take on a New York agent, um,
57:09
named John Bonjovi?
57:12
We've booked some of his bands.
57:14
Only Good things. I think he's got one on
57:15
There this year. He's playing
57:16
get, yeah. Yeah.
57:18
You have K bin Do you have kung bin on it? I thought you
57:20
Did. Royal Lotus Wet have Kung Band,
57:21
but I, I love them to death. So Wonder Day. Oh,
57:22
Royal Lotus. You have Royal Lotus.
57:24
We do have Royal Lotus. Yeah.
57:25
That, that's a great band, man. I mean,
57:27
I love Royal Lotus. I saw them
57:28
when they played at, um,
57:30
I guess racket is what it's called now.
57:31
Yeah. Um, but I've been up on them for a minute.
57:33
They're, they're a great band. Great.
57:35
Oh yeah, man. Tom, this has been
57:37
so awesome to talk to you.
57:39
I've learned a lot. Um, I've learned a lot.
57:40
I wanna know, I got a couple more questions.
57:43
How hard is it to deal with the f*****g city?
57:45
That's what I was wondering too.
57:47
It's really f*****g hard, guys. Yeah,
57:49
I f*****g bet. Dude. Taxes.
57:50
It really are. I will say there are three people in the
57:53
mayor's office who I would work with often who resigned
57:58
because they were indicted.
58:00
Oh my God. Holy s**t. Yeah, dude. Right?
58:03
Yeah. Um, you have, um,
58:08
turnover all the time in positions.
58:09
Mm-hmm. And you have new mayor mayoral administrations.
58:13
You know, there's a lot of politics between the agencies,
58:15
between the parks department and the mayor's office
58:17
and the fire department and the police department.
58:20
And things just move really, really slowly. Yeah. Right.
58:23
Um, it's really unfortunate
58:25
because, you know, for Gov Ball we risk $25 million a year.
58:30
We're, we're pumping a hundred million dollars in economic
58:33
activity into the economy annually.
58:36
Right. And I gotta fight tooth
58:38
and nail just to get my dates for the following year. Damn.
58:42
What? And it's such a success for the city,
58:44
and it's been going for over 10 years. So it's
58:46
Like, you know, it's like a, it's, it's like a supply
58:48
and demanding everybody wants to be in New York,
58:50
so the city kind of thinks that, you know,
58:52
it's okay to act this way.
58:53
Um, I really wish that they, they took a more holistic view,
58:57
uh, you know, for economic reasons,
58:59
but also just cultural reasons.
59:01
Hmm. Right. Like, we, we bring musicians and artists
59:04
and fans from all over the world to New York City
59:06
to spend money, enjoy the city, um,
59:08
you know, live that experience.
59:10
And, you know, it should be easy.
59:12
It should be a true partnership.
59:13
And I, I do think it is a partnership.
59:15
It's just, um, I wish it was easier.
59:19
I wish after 15 years it was just a, just a
59:22
Little Bit Easier.
59:23
Yeah. You would think you'd,
59:24
you know, give them my number.
59:25
Tom, I'll fight for you. You, I have no skin in the game.
59:29
I'm rooting for you, Tom. I'll,
59:30
I'll f*****g yell at these guys.
59:31
Okay. Yeah. Put 'em on the podcast.
59:33
I, I appreciate that. I,
59:34
I need all the help I can get sometimes get Mayor or Eric,
59:36
Adam on here. People
59:37
don't realize how important music festivals
59:39
are to, for the grow.
59:40
I mean, I grew up watching music festivals Same.
59:43
And that grew my childhood.
59:45
Like there, people don't realize how important the,
59:48
these big fest, like Warp Tour Van's.
59:50
Warp Tour was my festival. Yeah.
59:51
I mean, you know. Me too. Me too.
59:53
I was a pop punk kid and I worked at Drive Through
59:55
Records and I was, you know what?
59:57
You worked at Drive Through?
59:58
Yeah. I worked at Drive Through with Richard Rains. Wow.
1:00:00
And, uh, I was booking Hello, goodbye.
1:00:03
And, you know, I did some something corporate shows
1:00:05
and I did that whole thing
1:00:06
and I worked for Capital for Carist did for a bit
1:00:09
before I was a musician as well.
1:00:11
I used to hand out flyers for Epitaph
1:00:12
and, um, fuel By Ramen. Dude, I
1:00:15
Worked for Fuel by Ramen.
1:00:16
I worked, I did, uh, gym cla I, I was marketing
1:00:19
for gym Class Heroes in Paramore.
1:00:20
Nice. Damn. Oh, you're a pop, you're a pop punk kid.
1:00:23
Yeah. So I grew up in the city going to, uh, this venue,
1:00:26
um, called Coney Island High, which is on St.
1:00:28
Mark's place. Wow. And that's where like,
1:00:30
and the wetland, so you know, oh,
1:00:32
that makes milestones Less.
1:00:34
And Jake, no Effects. Like, that was my,
1:00:36
I guess like third wave ska and like nineties punk.
1:00:39
That was my jam. Hold on.
1:00:40
Shapiro was booking ska at the Wetlands. Oh yeah.
1:00:44
Oh Yeah, dude, that's my,
1:00:46
I used to have this thing every, um,
1:00:47
like once a once a month on Sundays. Ska Wars.
1:00:50
Yep. Dude, that's my, that's my, like, one
1:00:53
of my heroes is a promoter.
1:00:54
Like he's, I think he,
1:00:56
how he develops bands and how he cares.
1:00:57
Yeah. I could tell you care too. So he's
1:01:00
Beautiful mind. He's, he's a great guy.
1:01:02
Yeah. Um, Tom, thanks so much for your time, man.
1:01:05
I've learned a lot about bigger festivals
1:01:07
and don't let those f*****g city guys give you any s**t.
1:01:09
Okay. Yeah. You I'll, I'll talk to him.
1:01:11
I'll talk to him for you. Tom. Hey Greg.
1:01:13
Adam's phone number. Yeah, let's go.
1:01:15
Um, my last question, um, when it's all said
1:01:18
and done, you know, you've been doing this a long time
1:01:20
and I hope you keep doing it
1:01:21
because it's important for the sake of music.
1:01:25
Actually, I have two questions. Sorry.
1:01:27
If your son
1:01:28
or daughter wanna get into this music industry,
1:01:32
what advice would you give them at 26 years old
1:01:34
when you were first starting?
1:01:37
So, I think what I would tell them is,
1:01:40
I'd tell them something before they were 26.
1:01:42
I'd tell them something going into college at first.
1:01:44
I'd say go to a college in a, go a city
1:01:48
where you could get opportunities outside of college.
1:01:51
And when you're in college, get an internship.
1:01:53
Get many internships so that you can see
1:01:55
what it's like at various companies, especially companies
1:01:58
that are in a, a field that you're really interested in
1:02:02
and work your f*****g ass off Right.
1:02:04
In the internship, prove yourself. Right.
1:02:07
Be the first one in and the last one to leave.
1:02:09
Um, take everybody there out to lunch.
1:02:11
'cause ultimately they're probably gonna pay.
1:02:13
'cause you know, you're a broke college
1:02:14
student and they work.
1:02:15
Yeah. Um, pick their brain, ask questions,
1:02:19
develop these relationships so that when it comes time
1:02:22
for your internship to end, they say, well, f**k, that kid.
1:02:26
Made our team better. Right.
1:02:27
Let's keep him around or her around for the next semester,
1:02:30
or, you know, let's hire them eventually.
1:02:33
Uh, so it's really just about busting your ass
1:02:35
and putting the work first
1:02:37
and foremost when you know you're really young
1:02:40
and you can Yeah.
1:02:42
And then, you know, if you're not sure what you wanna do,
1:02:43
find the segment that you wanna do, um,
1:02:46
and then get a shitload of different internships across
1:02:49
that, that field and see what, uh, see what you're good at.
1:02:53
Hmm. And once you lose your ass once,
1:02:55
get the f**k out of there.
1:02:57
Right. No, I'm just,
1:02:58
I'm just kidding. I mean, you take
1:02:59
the L and you move on. Yeah, yeah.
1:03:01
In whatever direction you hear,
1:03:03
you read it in every business book under the sun.
1:03:04
Right, right. You got it. You can't be afraid to fail.
1:03:06
Mm-hmm. And everybody fails
1:03:08
and you know, you just f*****g keep doing it. It's
1:03:10
Okay to get punched in the mouth,
1:03:12
you just gotta keep fighting. Mm-hmm.
1:03:13
That's right. Yeah.
1:03:15
Tom, thanks so much for being on the show.
1:03:17
Good luck with Governor's Ball this year
1:03:18
and, uh, keep fighting the good fight,
1:03:20
bro. We're ruining for you. Oh
1:03:21
Yeah. Thank you guys. Thanks for
1:03:22
having me. Have a
1:03:23
Good one. Have a good day.