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Dean Dwyer: Truth Is Hate To Those Who Hate The Truth · Worldview Matters With David Fiorazo

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Welcome to World View Matters, discussing controversial issues, discerning current events,
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defending biblical Christianity, no topic, off limits.
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And now, here's your host, David Firazzo.
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Friends, family and Christ, thank you so much for tuning in.
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God bless you.
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Our brother from Australia, back with us, you know, I didn't say Australia, said Australia.
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Anyway, I love this brother, Dean Dwyer will get to pass your Dean in a minute, but first
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I want to mention our conference, man, we are now, are we into April now?
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Yes, I think we are.
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That means May 1st and 2nd.
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So it's less than a month now, May 1st and 2nd, Green Bay, Wisconsin, the World View Matters
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Conference.
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We have less than 100 tickets left, less than 100.
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Probably more than that by the time this air is from when we're recording it.
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But if you're interested in going, I would love for you to mention it to your pastor, because
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we don't know how we can get a hold of pastors, especially in the Green Bay area in Wisconsin.
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Tell your pastor, please, about this conference, because he might want to share with the congregation.
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It's going to really edify the body of Christ, 12 expert speakers, two days, full packed
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days, great sessions, 15 sessions all together, some Q and A's at the end of each day, Friday
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and Saturday, May 1st and 2nd, it's going to be at the Delta Hotel in Green Bay.
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So again, the website worldviewmattersconference.com, we've been talking about it for months, but
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it's getting close now, worldviewmattersconference.com, there it is.
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And I did this in the last time with Dean last week, so let me share Harbinger's Daily
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again, and they are one of our sponsors, and they are such a strong support of both Dean
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and my ministries, and look at what they did right on the top page.
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Home page of Harbinger's Daily News, worldviewmattersconference, you click on that, it goes right
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to our website.
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What a huge blessing.
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Dean Dwyer, welcome back.
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Good to see you brother.
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Thanks for your time.
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Good to see you David.
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Have you ever been to Australia incidentally?
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I have not, unfortunately.
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Okay, well we might have to have a worldviewmattersconference stand on one of these days.
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That would be amazing actually.
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So Dean, before we get into our topic today, and I want to talk about at least one of your
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articles, you do a lot of great writing over at Harbinger's Daily, but at the end of
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March you put out one called How Will Israel Change, when Jesus inaugurates the Millennial
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Kingdom.
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I don't think about that in a minute, but first there is some news because we're delayed
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and from when we were recording this, it's not breaking news, but there's a pretty big
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story out of Finland.
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I have written about this.
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I think it was four or five years ago.
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I wrote an article on this particular story and what Pavi Rosinin in Finland was going
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through basically just for standing against or standing up for marriage between one man
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and one woman at her church, but oh, she put something out on social media, but let's
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go to the story.
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So it was a narrow decision, but the Finland, the Finnish Supreme Court found her guilty
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of hate speech.
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Now she's a Christian, she's a parliamentarian over in Finland, and she's been battling
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this for I think 20 years.
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That's when her original pamphlet came out.
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She basically just produced it for her church, it published it for her church, but I think
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if I remember right, she did something on her social media and then oh, she got arrested,
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she got fined, and basically what they found was this went against the homosexual community,
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at least that's how they took it.
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So basically let's read between the lines, the biblical worldview, God ordained marriage
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between one man and one woman is offensive, and it's hate speech.
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If you talk about it in public, Dindwa are your thoughts.
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What's Australia like after you talk about this story?
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Truth sounds like hate to those who hate the truth, and that's fundamentally what it's
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all about, David.
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As you rightly point out, God makes it abundantly clear in his word that he's the designer
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of marriage.
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And so as the one who designed the concept and the covenant of marriage, he is entitled
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to set the parameters for what marriage is, and he very clearly does that.
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One man, one woman.
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And so you ask where Australia's at, look, unfortunately, Australia is well-advanced
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on the trajectory of moral degradation as well.
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And we have similar cases here, and unfortunately what it means, and this story has developed
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over many years.
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And unfortunately, we find other Christians here as well who are just bombarded with law
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fair.
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They are just drag through courts.
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They have their social media posts.
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They have their sermon content, article content.
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Just exposed to the community, and it becomes a way of public shaming.
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So it's almost like putting Christians in the stocks and giving the community rotten
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tomatoes.
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So it is very sad, David.
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But again, it just comes back to the fact that people hate the truth.
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We speak the truth, but nor should it lead us to retreat from the public square either.
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We know, and we've talked about this in the last episode, that suffering is going to come,
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persecution is going to come, and that's not a reason to shy away from continuing to
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share the truth, because we know that it's vitally important, and it's God's truth.
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And so we just continue to follow that path.
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We are truth tellers.
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We have the Holy Spirit.
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We have the support of the Christian community, but that is waning also, because as you've
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pointed out in the past, unfortunately, there are many Christians who are walking away from
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this truth as well, and are growing more accepting of what's happening in the LGBT community.
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So it's concerning probably from all angles.
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Yeah.
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Briefly, let's go back to the article.
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And then I want to ask you about Australia and your freedom or lack thereof when it comes
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to these views.
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It says the Supreme Court unanimously acquitted Rosinin in 2019 for tweeting a Bible verse
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in 2019.
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But then Rosinin was acquitted on all charges by two lower courts.
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But then the long-serving parliamentarian and former minister of the interior has now
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been convicted for hate speech under a section of the Finnish criminal code titled War
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Crimes and Crimes Against Humanity.
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The medical doctor and grandmother of 12 was tried in early 2022, and again in 2023 for
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expressing her beliefs, which included that Bible verse in 2019 and also on a radio debate
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and going all the way back to a church booklet that we mentioned earlier.
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So what happens in Finland or what happens in the UK doesn't stay in the UK.
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We better be careful in the United States.
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We've already seen how the Biden administration was attacking Christians in the biblical
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worldview.
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What about Australia, Dean, before we jump back to your other article there, what is this
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like out in public when it comes to freely quoting a Bible verse or standing up for God
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or deemed marriage for life in the womb?
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What are your observations there?
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Unfortunately, as you say, we are certainly led or influenced by things that happen in
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the UK and probably the US in particular.
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We very rarely I think have a trajectory which tends to the right anymore or tends towards
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conservative principles anymore.
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We have a governing system, I think, which is more trending certainly toward the red
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green axis, which is the preeminence of Islam and communism in this country.
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So with that, it's a strange paradox.
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You wouldn't think that communism and Islam mix, but obviously they have the same common
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enemy, which is Christianity and Judaism.
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So look, unfortunately abortion is permitted in many, if not all of the states in Australia.
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Our own Queensland government, when it transitioned to a new government recently, people were
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excited because it was a more conservative government, but basically they would have put
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a block on the abortion debate in parliament.
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And so what that has allowed is that unfortunately it means that abortion is continuing, but it's
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not permitted to be debated in parliament at the moment, which is extremely disappointing
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because as much as the Christian community continues to lobby for changes in laws, particularly
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abortion up until the third trimester.
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Governments continue to block their ears to our concerns, and they're really blinded
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by the enemy because for anyone, David, you speak very clearly and openly on this.
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For anyone to deny that when you carry out an ultrasound, that embryo or that person
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in the womb does not have personhood, it's fundamentally blindness and spiritual blindness,
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which is perpetrated by the enemy.
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And so it confuses us, but we have a sanctified mind.
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They don't, but unfortunately they won't listen to reason, they won't listen to logic,
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and they certainly won't listen to biblical truth.
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And as you say, through that article and through the example in Finland, and we're seeing
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this in the Christian community and through varying lobby groups now, there's a willful
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blindness to listen to anything that Christians say, and what they're doing now is fundamentally
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treating what we say as, as you ludicrously pointed out, crime against humanity for
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speaking the truth and speaking it from the Bible.
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How do we get to this point?
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Well, we got to this point because the enemy is very active in the minds of governing
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its institutions, politicians, NGOs, et cetera, and he has through Romans one.
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We know that not only the enemy blinds people, but God gives people over to a debased mind
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as well, a mind that doesn't function correctly.
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And so this is what we're seeing, but unfortunately the real victims here are babies in utero,
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which are being mercilessly slaughtered by the millions, all for the sake of a political
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agenda, which refuses to understand or believe the truth.
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Oh, my goodness, I'm talking about delusion, and nothing is new under the sun.
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I mean, if we look back in the Old Testament, they were sacrificing their babies.
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For different reasons, it wasn't for convenience to the God, to Molech.
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Anyway, let's go back to some good news now, and your church, and this might be a clumsy
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transition, but nonetheless, we're doing it.
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In your church, you've been going through and preaching a series entitled The King and
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His Kingdom, and talking about the King of Kings and Lord of Lords, and when Jesus inaugurates
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the Millennial Kingdom.
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So let's just talk about this for the last half, the second half of this podcast, Pastor
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Dean.
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I think it segway's perfectly David, because we see the frustrations of this current
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age, but we know that the age to come is going to be radically different in many different
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ways.
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And that's one of the real hopes that we cling to, because we know that when Jesus inaugurates
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the Kingdom, and as people who believe in a pre-millennial, hermeneutical interpretation
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of the Bible, we see the Kingdom as future, that after the Tribulation period and the second
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advent of Christ to rescue the remnant of Israel, he will inaugurate that Kingdom, and
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we know that it is a 1,000 year Kingdom.
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And so in that day, we know there will be no abortion.
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There will be no radical LGBT army.
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We know that there will be no conflicts.
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We know a lot of things will cease to exist in that age and how wonderful it's going
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to be, because this is really what drives our hope that as we see the age and the times
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growing darker, David, we can look forward to that wonderful time when righteousness and
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peace and holiness will fill the earth, because the King has come to inaugurate His Kingdom.
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So this is really what's been on my heart for the last little while, as I've started
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to preach through this series, is that as we talked about in the last episode, where
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we see a sense of heaviness throughout the church at the moment, we all need to be infused
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with that hope that we have a marvellous eternity to look forward to.
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And as I talked about in the article, I picked up and I liked to do this.
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I picked up on some of the lesser known passages in the Scriptures, and for that we drew
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from Zephaniah, which if you talk to a lot of people, they might not even realise that
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there's a book called Zephaniah in the Bible, let alone where to find it.
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So this is what I like to do, as I like to go to some of the lesser known or less studied
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passages in the Bible, just to draw out some of those great lessons.
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And of course, as we know, the Kingdom is primarily focused on Israel, and so I mean that's
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contentious in the church alone at the moment, because we make the Israel church distinction.
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And as I said, the Lord Jesus comes back, and we know this from Zechariah 12 to 14, to
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rescue the remnant of Israel from Antichrist and from the armies of the world.
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And what a wonderful day it's going to be when that Kingdom is inaugurated.
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And peace is going to fill the earth finally.
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You wouldn't share some of those verses, because a lot of us know Zechariah, but we don't
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hear Zephaniah quoted that often, and in this article you just laid out a handful of verses
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and you then expounded on them quite a bit.
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So just share a little bit, I'm looking at these going, wow, there's some very obviously
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prophetic but powerful verses seeking the Lord, seek righteousness, seek humility, talking
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about what's going to happen to the people, how they're going to be regathered, and the
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talk about the King of Israel, and go ahead and share a little bit more about that Dean.
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Yeah, well Zephaniah was the great, great, great grandson of Hezekiah, and we're not told
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which Hezekiah, but we believe it to be King Hezekiah.
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And so he was, his mission was to the remnant who, and we know that God works through a remnant,
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we've seen that consistently throughout the Scriptures, we see that in the future tribulation
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period when there's a remnant of Israel, and we also see it in the Christian church as
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well, that in the broader Christian community, unfortunately David, as we know, there are
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many people walking away from the truth of the Scriptures, a literal interpretation of
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the Bible, John Wolford, Dr. John Wolford, as I referenced at the end of the article,
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when he was asked what would be the fundamental challenge that faces the church in the future?
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Neil had always said the fact that the church is walking away from the literal interpretation
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of prophecy.
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And so we continue to maintain a literal and consistent hermeneutic, which is built
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around the fact that the kingdom is to come in the future, that Jesus will physically
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and visibly reign from Jerusalem.
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But in Zephaniah's time, he was sent to the remnant, and he was basically, because his
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name means hidden by Yahweh, then his name really revealed the theme of his message, because
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what he said to the remnant, what he was inspired to say in Zephaniah 2, verse 3, he says,
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seek the Lord, all you make of the earth, who have upheld his justice, seek righteousness,
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seek humility, it may be that you will be hidden in the day of the Lord's anger.
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So this was an unmistakable message to the remnant.
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The days are growing darker, the times are growing more difficult, but keep pressing on,
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keep seeking those biblical principles, upholding God's truth and righteousness, seek holiness,
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and if you do all of that, it may be that you will be hidden in the day of the Lord's
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anger or wrath.
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And so you can see the correlation then into the future tribulation period, because we know
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through Zachariah that there will be a remnant who comes through that, and God really works
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to ensure the preservation of that remnant, even though we know as well from Revelation 12,
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that the enemy does his level best to destroy every Jew.
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And so I think for people who don't understand our support for Israel or our loving support
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for the Jewish people, fundamentally what it comes down to is the fact that the enemy
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wants to ensure the eradication of every Jew, because if he can do that, and he can't,
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but theoretically if he could do that, it would stop Jesus returning to this earth to
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inaugurate his kingdom and advance the prophetic program.
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So this is the reason and the explanation for anti-Semitism is it's driven by the enemy
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because he wants to destroy the Jew in order to stop Jesus from returning.
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You mentioned a lot of people are maybe confused or being convinced or deceived on this issue
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because they have either strayed from the truth of Scripture, or they are somehow, somehow
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the enemy got through to them, or propaganda or something else, but we're talking about
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people in the church, but I want to talk about restoration now because I love that you
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have a little section in this article where you quote Zef and I, and then you quote Amos,
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this is really interesting, Dean, I'll let you elaborate, but I'd like to just quote
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these what you have in the article, Zef and I at 320 says, at that time I will bring
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you back even at the time I gather you for I will give you fame and praise among all
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the peoples of the earth when I return your captives before your eyes says the Lord.
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And then the final verse of Amos 9 verse 15, God says, I will plant them in their land
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and no longer shall they be pulled up from the land I, God says, have given them says
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the Lord your God.
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There's so many verses like this, Dean, that to me you look at that, you go, wow, how
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can you misinterpret some of this and believe that Israel does not, or we won't live in
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that land or doesn't deserve that land or God has not made promises.
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Go ahead and share your thoughts on that.
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It's very plain to you and I David, and I think this is why we play such an important emphasis
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on a consistent, literal, historical, grammatical, hermeneutic.
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And unfortunately I think what's happened is that people have spiritualised the promises
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to Israel and obviously through supercessionism has transferred them to the church, but it makes
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no sense because God speaks in very deliberate terms.
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And as you quoted from Amos 9, 15, I will plant them in their land.
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I mean this goes right back to the Abrahamic covenant.
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We know that there are unfulfilled promises to Israel which exist in this age.
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And this is part of the reason for the inauguration of the kingdom is that God is going to fulfil
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his promises to Israel.
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Now if you are arguing that either the promises are spiritualised, the promises are transferred
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to the church, all the promises are going to remain unfulfilled.
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Then fundamentally what you are arguing is that God is a liar because the concept of
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the kingdom is fully developed in the Old Testament.
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And so if you come to this church age and you are going to argue, oh no, there's no future
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kingdom, all the kingdom is just a spiritual kingdom now where Jesus rules in the hearts
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of believers.
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If you are denying a literal earthly political kingdom with Jesus Christ ruling as king
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of kings and Lord of lords, then what you are fundamentally arguing and it becomes a ludicrous
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and potentially blasphemous argument, you are calling God a liar because he didn't
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mean what he said when he said in the Old Testament that all of this is going to come
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to pass.
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So I would challenge anybody to look at your thinking on that matter, look at your interpretation
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of the scriptures, go back and interpret the scriptures literally and be convicted particularly
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by Amos 915 and look at the fact that God is very deliberate in His language and it connects
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Israel to the land promises.
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And so this is what will be unveiled in the millennial kingdom and this is why we continue
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to speak so often about it because it combats a lot of the anti-Semitism which is continuing
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to fester in the church because unfortunately as we know, we know the names we don't have
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to mention them but so called conservatives and so called Christians on the right are
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starting to really disconnect Israel from the biblical promises and disconnect Israel
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from the land promises.
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And unfortunately because of the popularity of these people, it is really starting to
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drive a wedge in the church where you've got people like us who understand and interpret
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the scriptures from a literal point of view which does have Israel back in the land particularly
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through the kingdom as opposed to those who believe that the church has replaced Israel
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and these promises no longer exist emphatically for Israel.
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So it's becoming a real problem and it will continue to become a problem as I said particularly
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as these voices start to grow louder and more people are drawn to these arguments.
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So Dean, I know you mentioned the literal interpretation but some might be confused about
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that when we consider some parts of revelation for example and the symbolism, could you please
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clarify that and speak to that for a couple minutes?
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Absolutely, I mean this comes back to what we call hermeneutics which is just your method
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of interpretation of the Bible and look clearly in some cases yes when you approach the Bible
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from that point of view, you've got to let scripture interpret scripture.
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So when you approach those matters and Revelation 12 is a prime example I mentioned that earlier,
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you've got a dragon chasing a woman who's giving birth to a child and he's sending a flood after
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them. When you understand and when you look at that positionally from scripture interpreting
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scripture you can start to see how to interpret it from that point of view to understand that this
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is talking about Israel and Satan trying to devour and destroy Christ and then obviously trying
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to destroy Israel in the tribulation period before God hides them. So absolutely David, we've got
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a consistent interpretation, we've got to be literal in our interpretation but we've also
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got to allow scripture to interpret scripture so that when we find those passages in the Bible
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which might bring some confusion if you reading it from that point of view, there can still be a
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literal interpretation from the point of view that scripture will tell you what it's revealing
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so that you can understand it from what the Bible is trying to communicate.
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Amen, brother. So people, if you want to read this full article in context we skimmed through
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quite a bit of it and Dean's got some great writings. You can go to HarbingersDaily.com
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in the left hand column. We'll put a link in the show notes here in the podcast but in the left
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hand column you can see all the people that they support and what do you call that contributors
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to Harbingers. Dean is there. I'm blessed to be in that great amazing group of godly men and women
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and pastors and so you just look for Dean and go over that article on just when Jesus inaugurates
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the millennial kingdom. It's fun to think about. It's coming. It's coming. They kingdom come. They
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will be done. We're encouraged to pray for it, right? That's right. That's it. That's it, David.
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Absolutely. And you mentioned HarbingersDaily and we appreciate their support. Love the recent
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interviews you did with Brianna. She's a precious sister in Christ. So thank you for having here on
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the show. But I'll also mention and Chris Kotalka appears above my headshot there in the list of
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contributors as does I think Steve Herzeg is there and also Rob Gotzelik. And so these are
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precious brothers who work with the Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry who are know that Harbingers
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also host their content as well. So I would encourage anybody who is unsure about God's plan for
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Israel or they are trying to find some resources to help them to talk to family and friends and
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maybe other believers about God's plan for Israel. Then I would direct them firstly and primarily
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to HarbingersDaily for that content, but also to the Friends of Israel Gospel Ministry as well.
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Because they have some wonderful content over many decades from many different contributors,
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but all with the focus of exulting the name of Jesus, also practically helping the Jewish people
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through various programs, sharing the gospel with the Jewish people, but also they have a real
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heart for sharing the truth of God's word with the church so that we can start to combat this
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issue of superstitionism or replacement theology in the church, which is a defining problem in our age.
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And it's very much the case in Australia, unfortunately, that we find a lot of churches here are
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either A millennial and usually when they're A millennial, then they are allowing or inviting
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replacement theology into their doctrines as well. So we find that, unfortunately, a big problem
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in Australia, but we've got a couple of a wonderful, a number of wonderful representatives from
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Friends of Israel in Australia as well. So they do great work in traveling around to the churches
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and just sharing God's truth and God's heart for these people.
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Yeah, I've got to get Chris Katalka back on the podcast. That's been a while.
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Too long. So thank you. Thank you for putting that back in my ear. Dean Eiser Street Baptist Church dot
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org home dot com. No, dot com. Yes.
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Eiser Street EISER ST Baptist Church dot com. If you're in Australia to Wumba
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and want to find out more on Pastor Dean's Church, just appreciate your perspective so much.
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And it's so good whenever we can, at least for me, get out of America and the craziness is going
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on here and just touch base with another brother from another continent and God is still working
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and God is still on the throne. Brother, thank you for your time. Do it again soon.
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Thank you, David. Appreciate it. Friends, God bless you and as always, keep speaking the truth
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about things that matter. See you next time.