Latest / Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast / Why Lyrical Dance Should Be a Priority in Your Weekly Training

Transcript

Why Lyrical Dance Should Be a Priority in Your Weekly Training · Making The Impact - A Dance Competition Podcast

• 0:07
  SPEAKER_06: Have you ever wondered what goes on behind the table at a dance competition?
• 0:10
  SPEAKER_06: Exactly what are the judges looking for anyway?
• 0:13
  SPEAKER_06: This is Making the Impact, a dance competition podcast.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_06: Each week we'll cover a different topic related to the world of competitive dance from the perspective of the judges behind the table.
• 0:27
  SPEAKER_06: Lyrical dance is a favorite over here at Making the Impact.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_06: Dancing from the heart with gorgeous technique, expressing the lyrics through movement.
• 0:34
  SPEAKER_06: What's not to love?
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_06: We're here this week with some lyrical dance educators to school you on why you should prioritize lyrical in your weekly training.
• 0:44
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, dance world, and welcome to Making the Impact.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_01: I'm your host, Courtney Ortiz, and I'm here, like always, with my wonderful co-host, Leslie Mueller.
• 0:54
  SPEAKER_01: Hello, friends.
• 0:55
  SPEAKER_01: Happy podcast day.
• 0:57
  SPEAKER_01: Happy podcast day and happy lyrical day over here on the pod.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_06: The best day.
• 1:02
  SPEAKER_06: Why isn't there like, you know, there's World Ballet Day and National Tap Dance Day, and like, can we just get a national lyrical day?
• 1:08
  SPEAKER_06: I'll take it.
• 1:09
  SPEAKER_01: Oh my gosh, I love that.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_01: Let's make it happen.
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_01: We love some.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_06: Just like worldwide group lyrical dance at, you know, 12 o'clock noon.
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_06: Who knows?
• 1:17
  SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah.
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_06: Oh yeah.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: That sounds great.
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_01: We love some lyrical over here on Making the Impact.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_01: And you know, we have talked about it many, many times because we've had two whole episodes about lyrical versus contemporary.
• 1:31
  SPEAKER_01: And today we're back to talk strictly about lyrical.
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Who knows?
• 1:35
  SPEAKER_01: Maybe there might be a little bit of contemporary thrown into the conversation.
• 1:39
  SPEAKER_01: But we want to talk all about why we love lyrical so much and why we think it's an important part of every dancer's training.
• 1:45
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 1:46
  SPEAKER_06: And this is, you know, y'all know us, we love lyrical over here.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_06: So um we have invited some very special guests who have some unique perspectives on lyrical as well.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_06: Um, so we're excited to get to that.
• 1:56
  SPEAKER_06: But before we do, we just want to remind you that you can join our Facebook group at any time.
• 2:00
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_06: We are loving all the conversations we have over there.
• 2:04
  SPEAKER_06: Several years now.
• 2:05
  SPEAKER_06: We have a million, I don't know, not a million.
• 2:07
  SPEAKER_06: We have a lot of members.
• 2:09
  SPEAKER_06: Everybody's, you know, we have great conversations.
• 2:11
  SPEAKER_06: It's a very positive place to ask questions, and you will get a lot of honest feedback from, you know, educators, other dance parents, uh, dance teachers, dance judges.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_06: So come join us.
• 2:22
  SPEAKER_06: We're at Making the Impact Podcast Community on Facebook.
• 2:25
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_01: And also, I want to just throw out a plug and reminder that we love reviews.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: And you can review us on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_01: And something fun about Spotify, which I actually love listening to podcasts on Spotify.
• 2:40
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of cool features that are existing now over there.
• 2:43
  SPEAKER_01: And you can actually leave comments on specific episodes.
• 2:46
  SPEAKER_01: So if you love I know, isn't that like it's not just the review of the whole podcast?
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: Like the whole thing.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: That's cool.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I know.
• 2:53
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really cool.
• 2:54
  SPEAKER_01: We get some every now and then people will chime in and leave a comment on what they thought about the episode, something they learned, something they loved.
• 3:01
  SPEAKER_01: So if you listen to an episode on Spotify, leave us some comments.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: We love to hear from you.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_06: Amazing.
• 3:07
  SPEAKER_06: Well, I'm I might have to start listening on Spotify.
• 3:09
  SPEAKER_06: I'm an Apple Podcast girly, but yeah, yeah, you can only re leave, you know, your basic review of the whole season or the whole entity of making the impact over there.
• 3:18
  SPEAKER_06: But yeah, feel free to give us some love that helps us get driven higher in search results.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_06: And we just always want more people to listen.
• 3:27
  SPEAKER_06: We want to spread the good word of competitive dance and other kinds of dance.
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and shout out to everyone who continues to discover making the impact, who joins our Facebook group, who shares it with a friend, who shares our episodes.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_01: We love our fans out there and all of our Putnam Premium subscribers as well, who help make this podcast possible.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_06: We do.
• 3:44
  SPEAKER_06: And fun fact, I actually met a podcast fan the other day.
• 3:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um, we had a Capizio photo shoot, and I was, you know, around just kind of surveying the scene and doing some work and talking to another person.
• 3:55
  SPEAKER_06: And this mom kind of like turns to me and she goes, Are you with the podcast?
• 4:00
  SPEAKER_06: And I said, Yeah.
• 4:01
  SPEAKER_06: She goes, Oh my God, I I thought I recognized your voice, but I've never seen your face.
• 4:05
  SPEAKER_06: Yes.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_06: And I love it when that happens because you're right.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_06: You don't really ever see our faces, you know, unless you see us out and about.
• 4:11
  SPEAKER_06: But it's it's always cool to meet a fan.
• 4:13
  SPEAKER_06: So if you ever, if you ever hear us anywhere in the room in the convention in the in the store, uh, come say hi.
• 4:20
  SPEAKER_01: I think it's so funny at a convention when kids come up after class and they want to get a photo, but they're like, My mom listens to your podcast.
• 4:28
  SPEAKER_01: And they always say that.
• 4:29
  SPEAKER_01: Or mom will come up and be like, I'm a really big fan.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: Can I also get a selfie?
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, Yes.
• 4:34
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, absolutely.
• 4:35
  SPEAKER_01: We love meeting the fans, and it is nice, like you said, like so many people have said the same thing.
• 4:39
  SPEAKER_01: I I recognized your voice, but I've never seen you in person.
• 4:42
  SPEAKER_01: So here we are.
• 4:43
  SPEAKER_01: I'm glad that we're like out and about and we can connect with our fans in person.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yes, we're real.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_06: All right, well, let's uh hear from our sponsors before we jump into this episode.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_02: Dancers, parents, teachers, studio owners.
• 4:57
  SPEAKER_02: If you've been looking for a way to get real detailed feedback on your routines from trusted professionals, you've got to check out our service, IDA's online judges' critiques.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_02: Our critiques are done by industry pros, judges who are pre-screened through impact dance adjudicators, many with over ten years of experience on competition judging panels across the country.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_02: And the best part, you can actually request a genre-specific judge.
• 5:22
  SPEAKER_02: So the feedback that you get is tailored exactly to your style of dance, whether it's jazz, tap, lyrical, hip-hop, or anything in between.
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_02: You'll receive your critique within five business days guaranteed.
• 5:33
  SPEAKER_02: Or if you're in a rush, IDA is the only service in the industry offering 24-hour rush delivery.
• 5:39
  SPEAKER_02: And new to all my choreographers, we're so excited to introduce our choreography console critiques.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_02: This version focuses completely on your choreography, not the dancer's performance.
• 5:50
  SPEAKER_02: Your IDA judge will dive deep into your concept, transitions, costuming, style, formations, textures, musicality, and overall vision, giving you specific, actionable feedback to help your artistry grow as a choreographer.
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_02: Critiques start at just$35, and trust me, they're worth every penny.
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_02: Head to Impact Danceadjudicators.com slash online critiques or click the link in our show notes to submit your video today and see just why IDA continues to set the standard for professional feedback in the dance industry.
• 6:22
  SPEAKER_02: We're truly making the impact.
• 6:24
  SPEAKER_02: Prep for the upcoming competition season today with IDA's online judges critiques.
• 6:31
  SPEAKER_01: Dance World, we're back, and we're here to talk about a genre that I love so, so much that I grew up doing my entire life and that we often see slowly flying away in the dance world, which is lyrical dance.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: And we've talked about it so much on the podcast, especially one of our hottest topics ever that we've done twice lyrical versus contemporary.
• 6:54
  SPEAKER_01: Because for some reason our dance world just doesn't seem to know what the darn difference is between those two genres.
• 7:00
  SPEAKER_01: But today we're talking specifically about lyrical and also why it is a crucial part in training and why we believe that more dancers should be doing it on the weekly and not just as a special treat and not just at dance conventions.
• 7:13
  SPEAKER_01: And is is authentic true lyrical dance even happening at dance conventions?
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: I'm sure we can talk about that too.
• 7:21
  SPEAKER_01: But so many things have to come in this fabulous chat.
• 7:25
  SPEAKER_01: We have two brand new guests that are joining us here on Making the Impact, both dance educators and both active current college professors, which is a really unique treat as well.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: The first guest that I'm excited to welcome to the podcast.
• 7:39
  SPEAKER_01: I had the pleasure of briefly meeting him finally in this dance world this summer at Streets Dance National, who representing Oklahoma City University and Lacey's School of American Dance and Entertainment as he was scouting for new talent in their program.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And he is a current artist in residence at Oklahoma City University.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: I'm thrilled to welcome dance educator Jeremy Duvall.
• 8:03
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Jeremy.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: Hi, thank you so much for having me.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_00: I'm super excited to be here.
• 8:08
  SPEAKER_01: Yay! I'm thrilled that you could make this happen into your schedule because I know that you are currently teaching right now.
• 8:14
  SPEAKER_01: We're like on a launch break.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 8:16
  SPEAKER_01: It's like full swing over there at OCU.
• 8:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
• 8:20
  SPEAKER_01: And the connection of Leslie and Jeremy because Leslie's an OCUer as well.
• 8:24
  SPEAKER_01: OCU alum.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: That's right.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: Go stars.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: We love it.
• 8:29
  SPEAKER_01: So many OCU uh alums come to the podcast, and there's so many of you out there.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm excited to hear about um what the program's looking like now, and also would love for you to share with the world more about you because I know you've also had an extensive performance career and also background with some legendary lyrical icons.
• 8:47
  SPEAKER_01: So please feel free to share more about you.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_00: Well, thank you so much again for having me and for this opportunity.
• 8:54
  SPEAKER_00: Like Courtney just said, I am Jeremy Duvall.
• 8:57
  SPEAKER_00: I'm originally from Oklahoma.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I graduated from Oklahoma City University with a Bachelor of Performing Arts degree.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_00: And then very quickly, three weeks after graduation, moved to Tokyo, Japan, where I was working for Tokyo Disney, doing a Broadway review show over there.
• 9:15
  SPEAKER_00: So throughout my career, I've worked in all aspects of the industry: film and TV, musicals, music videos.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_00: I did a wonderful music video starring Emma Stone, it's arcade fires, Anna.
• 9:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 9:32
  SPEAKER_00: So that was it was choreographed by Ryan Heffington.
• 9:34
  SPEAKER_00: It was an incredible, incredible experience with all of that.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: And I worked for the Radio City Rockets.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: I was in the Radio City Christmas Spectacular for years.
• 9:46
  SPEAKER_00: I did Wicked, the musical for six years as a swing dance captain.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_00: And now I've also worked with Disney in California.
• 9:57
  SPEAKER_00: I was in Frozen Live at the Hyperion, um playing Sven, the reindeer.
• 10:04
  SPEAKER_00: So knowing your body and what lyrical dance allows your body to do can also shape and help you when you're a puppet.
• 10:13
  SPEAKER_00: So that was a true experience.
• 10:19
  SPEAKER_00: But uh with all of that, speaking of the lyrical icons, when I was living in New York, I assisted Michelle Asof, who is a dear, dear mentor, friend, and inspiration of mine here in New York City.
• 10:35
  SPEAKER_00: And then out in LA, I assisted Doug Caldwell and danced for him in his benefit shows and would be with him in all his classes and all the classes that I could take with him and soak up all the knowledge and love that he brought to every room that he stepped into.
• 10:55
  SPEAKER_00: As many of us know, Doug sadly passed in 2016.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_00: So I, along with other um assistants that he had along the way, we keep him here, his legacy alive.
• 11:10
  SPEAKER_00: And I like to teach his movement.
• 11:13
  SPEAKER_00: I do his warm-up, I teach his combinations.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_00: His best friend Marlene has umpteen DVDs of him in his living room.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_00: So she's graciously gifted those to me so that I can keep the legacy alive.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: Wow.
• 11:30
  SPEAKER_01: That is so special.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, I'm currently an artist and resident professor at Oklahoma City University.
• 11:36
  SPEAKER_01: Awesome.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_01: And anything to share about the program at OCU that you want to plug to any of our listeners out there.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 11:44
  SPEAKER_00: Oklahoma City University, we offer many different majors through our dance programs.
• 11:51
  SPEAKER_00: So you should check it out.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_00: We have Dance Performance, Dance Management, Entertainment Business, and our Dance Teacher program, where it's focused on teaching pedagogy.
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_00: So we have our auditions coming up in January.
• 12:05
  SPEAKER_00: We have auditions four times a year, but the next one coming up will be at the end of January.
• 12:10
  SPEAKER_00: So check it out.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_06: Nice.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, listeners will put that link in the show notes so that you can check it out and go uh sign up for auditions.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_06: Thank you.
• 12:18
  SPEAKER_01: Fabulous.
• 12:19
  SPEAKER_01: Thanks for being here.
• 12:21
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: All right.
• 12:22
  SPEAKER_01: Our next special guest is new to the podcast as well.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: She is a dance educator and also an associate professor at the Boston Conservatory at Berkeley.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: And also, she is a studio lyrical teacher on the regular.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_01: That is an important thing to add because we're talking about studio dance right now.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: I'm excited to welcome Lindsay Klein to the podcast.
• 12:44
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome, Lindsay.
• 12:45
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you guys so much for having me.
• 12:47
  SPEAKER_03: I am a longtime listener of the podcast, being a studio teacher.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_03: And I am so thrilled and honored to be here talking about one of my favorite disciplines in the whole wide world.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: So thank you so much for thinking of me.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: Absolutely.
• 13:01
  SPEAKER_01: We're so happy you could make this possible in your schedule as well because I know you're busy.
• 13:06
  SPEAKER_01: And uh Lindsay, same thing.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: Feel free to share a little bit more about you.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, just um, gosh, I was a graduate of the University of the Arts in Philadelphia, which sadly is um no longer a university um where I received my BFA in jazz performance.
• 13:22
  SPEAKER_03: And then I also went right into working for the Walt Disney World Company and had a performance career through them and then through Norwegian Cruise Lines.
• 13:32
  SPEAKER_03: And that was really the realm in which I I had my performing career.
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_03: Something about myself is just I the high that I got on stage performing never competed with the high that I felt in the classroom.
• 13:44
  SPEAKER_03: I knew that I always wanted to be an educator.
• 13:47
  SPEAKER_03: I knew that collegiate work was where I really thrived and loved to be at.
• 13:52
  SPEAKER_03: So I've always stayed connected to my home studio.
• 13:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um I teach at the studio that I was born and raised as a dancer, which is pretty awesome and full circle uh to be back on the other side of that now.
• 14:04
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, I taught at Dean College in Franklin for seven years as an assistant professor and then took uh a position at Boston Conservatory going almost four years ago now.
• 14:14
  SPEAKER_03: They had a their birth of the commercial program, which has been a huge success when I was uh hired.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, this will be my fourth year uh a part of that program.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_03: So it's been great.
• 14:26
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I wanted to ask about that program because I know it's newer.
• 14:29
  SPEAKER_01: And when you say commercial, what does that actually mean for any listeners out there who might be interested in learning more about it?
• 14:36
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so one of the cool things about our program is that it's actually an accelerated program.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_03: It's three years to receive your BFA versus four years, which is um usually what it takes at, you know, another university's program.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_03: We we really pride ourselves in bringing in all different genres and backgrounds of dancers into that commercial-based program.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_03: Our dancers are taking full full days' worth of classes in jazz and tap and musical theater, pop fusion, which is a lot of video-based work, hip-hop styles, we have Cirque classes now, just really kind of blending in everything that fits under that commercial umbrella.
• 15:16
  SPEAKER_03: We've been really, really successful in that.
• 15:17
  SPEAKER_03: We obviously do have our contemporary program and track as well, which is a four-year BFA program.
• 15:23
  SPEAKER_03: But I strictly am a part of the commercial track.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: Cool.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_03: I love that.
• 15:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, it's a great place.
• 15:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we also have auditions, I believe after uh the new year, we go to Chicago, New York, Atlanta, LA, and then of course we have them on our campus as well.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_03: So fabulous.
• 15:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 15:42
  SPEAKER_06: Lots lots of stuff coming up, listeners.
• 15:44
  SPEAKER_06: So if you are in high school, if you are, you know, getting ready for the next phase of your life, here's here's two people that you will have heard from.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_06: So that's exciting.
• 15:53
  SPEAKER_01: All right, y'all.
• 15:54
  SPEAKER_01: It is time to talk all about Lyrical, and I can't wait to hear what our guests have to share.
• 15:58
  SPEAKER_01: So let's jump in.
• 15:59
  SPEAKER_06: Awesome.
• 16:00
  SPEAKER_06: All right, friends.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_06: Well, thank you so much, both of you, for joining us today.
• 16:04
  SPEAKER_06: You your names both came up when we were sort of scouting for this episode of who are we gonna talk to?
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_06: Who are the people who have the influence and the history and you know, who are people that we really believe are doing good work in Lyrical?
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_06: And y'all's names came up multiple times.
• 16:17
  SPEAKER_06: So the word is out.
• 16:19
  SPEAKER_06: Uh, so thank you for doing what you do.
• 16:21
  SPEAKER_06: I also want to just give a really brief tiny bio from Jeremy since you were kind of like a protege of Doug Caldwell.
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_06: Um, he is again, his name came up a million times, and I was like, well, we want to this person, and he's not with us anymore.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_06: So, you know, just for the world, it's like I feel I feel like we hear a lot about your tap history legends, and you hear about Bob Fossey and you hear about these people of each genre, but Doug Caldwell's name comes up, and I feel like not everybody knows who that is or what he really meant to the industry.
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_06: So if you want to share just briefly, and then we can move forward into more current things.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 16:54
  SPEAKER_00: Doug grew up in California and was on Tremaine Dance Convention for many, many umpteen years.
• 17:02
  SPEAKER_00: I that's where I met Doug was at one of the Tremaine Dance Conventions.
• 17:07
  SPEAKER_00: And Doug was the type of human that the moment you met him, he's gonna jump into your heart and he's gonna stay there forever, which he has and he always will.
• 17:17
  SPEAKER_00: He saw everyone in the room that was with him.
• 17:22
  SPEAKER_00: He made everyone feel special.
• 17:25
  SPEAKER_00: His energy was infectious.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_00: You never wanted to leave Doug's class.
• 17:31
  SPEAKER_00: And that feeling I hold on to so deeply and so dearly, just simply because of who he was as a human first.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_00: And then on top of being an incredible educator, teacher, dancer, he was an incredible dancer, um, such an inspiration.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_00: His passion, I think that's like a main word that you would hear anyone talk.
• 17:56
  SPEAKER_00: If they bring up Doug's name, they're gonna say the word passion because he was so passionate about how he taught his classes and then also what he brought out of every student in the room.
• 18:08
  SPEAKER_00: So he was so special.
• 18:11
  SPEAKER_00: And love is like the main word that comes to my mind when I think of Doug as a human.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_00: When I think of Doug's classes, it's all love.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_00: And when I moved out to LA and was assisting him in all the classes, everyone called it going to church.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: It was, you know, you leave the outside world and everything that's going on outside the room, and you get to go to church and live.
• 18:40
  SPEAKER_00: You get to live in class.
• 18:43
  SPEAKER_00: And it was so, so special.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_06: That's one of the things that I feel like Lyrical does for a lot of people.
• 18:49
  SPEAKER_06: And, you know, that's why you do hear that love and passion and that like community feeling almost of being like in a room moving in the same way.
• 18:58
  SPEAKER_06: And I feel like that for me is like a defining point of lyrical is that you can just feel the love and the passion exuding from your body.
• 19:05
  SPEAKER_06: So thank you for sharing that.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_06: About Doug.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_06: I always, you know, I and longtime listeners will know that I say this all the time.
• 19:12
  SPEAKER_06: Like, we have to talk about the people who came before us to be able to move forward and keep their legacy alive.
• 19:18
  SPEAKER_06: So thank you for doing that.
• 19:19
  SPEAKER_00: Of course.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_06: And Lindsay, I want to start with you with a little bit of like back and forth.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_06: What do you feel like lyrical was when we were all growing up?
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_06: Because we're sort of ish around the same age.
• 19:29
  SPEAKER_06: And that was a little bit of heyday of lyrical, I feel like.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_06: What was it then?
• 19:33
  SPEAKER_06: And how do you feel like it has changed since then?
• 19:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, well, first of all, lyrical to me, first and foremost, has always been fusion-based.
• 19:41
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and what I mean by that, for those that may be confused on that term, is the fundamentals of two subjects are are combining to kind of give birth to this beautiful genre.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_03: And when I think of lyrical, especially back when I was growing up, it was really the fundamentals of ballet and jazz.
• 19:58
  SPEAKER_03: It was very much storytelling driven and emotionally expressive.
• 20:03
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like when we were growing up, very much centered along on ballet lines, almost like extended adagio phrases and breath work and and and control and and posture and um really things that you would we would work on in a ballet class, almost just letting become a little bit more free feeling to music.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_03: So I I think that that's what I would kind of describe it as growing up today.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_03: Today, um, you know, it it's it's so tough because you know, I'm such a person, and I and Courtney, you and I were talking about this, it really trying to to teach these younger generations about, you know, these disciplines that are are ever changing.
• 20:46
  SPEAKER_03: And a big part of me wants to wants lyrical to stay what it's always been.
• 20:52
  SPEAKER_03: But I also am a firm believer that, you know, art is ever evolving and disciplines and and genres will, you know, be influenced by other things and kind of shift in and I want to be an educator that moves along with those changes to some extent, I guess.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: But in 2025, I think we've been really influenced a lot by athleticism.
• 21:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think that we are really seeing a lot more, and I'm speaking competitively, we're seeing a lot more lifts in floor work.
• 21:21
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, that flee that fusion is definitely still there, but it's definitely more driven from the contemporary lane.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: You know, you see cloc cross-disciplinary things such as you know, acrobat acrobatics and gymnastics and street styles, and uh I I it's a lot more athletic, I feel like to me now.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 21:42
  unknown: Yeah.
• 21:42
  SPEAKER_06: Derem, do you agree?
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: I absolutely agree with everything that Lindsay mentioned.
• 21:49
  SPEAKER_00: How we trained growing up and the focus of ballet and jazz fusing together.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: And the I think Lindsay, you said it perfectly, like the elongation.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: Of the lines and like an elongated adagio or you know an elongated phrase.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's such a great word that you use, the elongation.
• 22:10
  SPEAKER_00: Now I think lyrical is a little more staccato and choppy.
• 22:17
  SPEAKER_00: And like you said, there's acrobatics and more floor work and more hip-hop.
• 22:25
  SPEAKER_00: Like you explained everything perfectly, Lindsay.
• 22:28
  SPEAKER_00: It was great.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_06: I almost feel like, too, with like the rise of the dance team culture, that you see a lot more precision, like a more focus on let's all have this turn sequence together, as opposed to like let's have a tiny bit of freedom in all of our elongation of our adagio, and like maybe we're not exactly the same, but our energy is the same.
• 22:46
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_06: Instead, we've kind of put it into like a more of a box of like five, six, seven, eight, you know, even though it's to a Selene Dion song.
• 22:54
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, right.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 22:55
  SPEAKER_06: Which of course it is.
• 22:56
  SPEAKER_06: Of course it's a good thing.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: You almost wish that the two could be separated.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_03: Cause like I I always joke with my students, like, in another life, I would love to be a dance team dancer.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, what they are able to do is so impressive.
• 23:06
  SPEAKER_03: That's amazing.
• 23:07
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:08
  SPEAKER_03: But do I consider them, you know, the same lyrical dancers in in my senior Thursday class?
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's just, it seems so, I don't know, like a totally different kind of subject, you know?
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 23:21
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know.
• 23:22
  SPEAKER_01: And maybe just like listening to you guys describe what we think of lyrical, what we see lyrical as now.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was sitting here thinking, all of those things that you just described almost feels like you're describing contemporary.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_01: So what really is lyrical?
• 23:40
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and I don't want this to be a lyrical versus contemporary discussion again.
• 23:43
  SPEAKER_01: 3.0.
• 23:44
  SPEAKER_01: 3.0.
• 23:46
  SPEAKER_01: But I guess what in those things that you described still make it lyrical enough, I guess, in 2025, or is it not lyrical enough in 2025 based on what you're seeing?
• 24:00
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I think uh I think it would change the dance landscape if the word lyrical was still living.
• 24:11
  SPEAKER_00: You know what I mean?
• 24:12
  SPEAKER_00: Like because there's contemporary category, like there's not a lyrical category anymore.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_00: It exists, but no one's doing it.
• 24:21
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 24:23
  SPEAKER_00: It's I think hence this podcast, why why why lyrical needs to be focused more on a weekly basis.
• 24:33
  SPEAKER_00: True lyrical, true lyrical.
• 24:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think too, like, in my opinion, the the real difference, I mean, in order to have a successful lyrical program, you have to have a strong ballet program.
• 24:44
  SPEAKER_03: Yes.
• 24:45
  SPEAKER_03: It's as simple as that.
• 24:46
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, uh to me, movement can look the same in contemporary and lyrical, but like if I'm looking at it through a judging lens or a teacher lens, I'm noticing the turnout in the feet.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_03: I'm noticing the a pas ma and like the way the dancer is using her shoulders and her breath.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: Like those to me is what really makes a lyrical routine versus a contemporary routine.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_06: Are you doing a recognizable ballet step with a flourish of your upper body that might be a little bit jazzy?
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_06: Like that's what I'm looking for.
• 25:15
  SPEAKER_06: Is like, is there a recognizable ballet step in this dance?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_06: Because otherwise, because contemporary can be, we've had this conversation a million times, a lunge, a walk.
• 25:25
  SPEAKER_06: You know, they're all kinds of just like pedestrian movements that turn into something really interesting.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_06: But I can't tell you from a dictionary what that was.
• 25:32
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 25:33
  SPEAKER_01: I should still know what position and shape you are going for in lyrical, whereas contemporary, we can blur that a little more and we can just use it a little bit more.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_01: But I shouldn't be questioning things in lyrical if you're doing it with proper technique and it's ballet driven.
• 25:51
  SPEAKER_01: Because obviously, like you said at the beginning, Lindsay, jazz and ballet come together and make a baby and that's lyrical dance.
• 25:58
  SPEAKER_01: But I should know the difference distinction in the execution of a parallel position and a turned-out position.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: And if the lines are too blurred and crossed over and you're creating too many angular shapes or you're not squared off, or whatever it may be, then I'm sitting there confused.
• 26:14
  SPEAKER_01: What are we going for here?
• 26:16
  SPEAKER_01: And even in in how it's choreographed too.
• 26:19
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and that falls back on the teacher because we have to make sure that we're giving the dancers the vocabulary that lives under the umbrella of lyrical, which to us as judges and most judges, if you're entering in that category, should be ballet-driven movement with a jazzy spin to it.
• 26:37
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_06: So that being said, go ahead, Leslie, go.
• 26:41
  SPEAKER_06: So I was, I'm curious, since you know, we've all had, we've all worked professionally and we've all taken lyrical.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_06: What do you think lyrical, how does how does having trained in lyrical dance influence what we're doing and what we're seeing on the professional stage?
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_06: And what kind of opportunities are there for people who have kind of a panache for lyrical?
• 27:01
  SPEAKER_06: Um, there's plenty of stuff out there, but I want to hear from you guys what you're seeing, especially since you're, you know, you're up there in higher education where you're coaching these people to now move on into the professional world.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_02: A new dance season is here, and that means competition is coming up quick.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_02: And we have a great way to help you prep your performance before hitting the stage with IDA's online judges critiques.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_02: One of our professional pre-screen judges will provide you with a video critique similar to what you receive at competition.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_02: But we also take our critiques one step further with our best-selling feature, post-critique additional feedback.
• 27:44
  SPEAKER_02: Your IDA judge will go back through your dance and pause the video to elaborate even more on specific corrections and personalized requests.
• 27:53
  SPEAKER_02: And exciting news for choreographers, our popular choreography console critiques are back in action this season.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_02: Your specialty judge will focus on choreography specific feedback, covering everything from concept and costumes to transitions, style, and musicality.
• 28:10
  SPEAKER_02: Enhance your creative vision and elevate your voice as a choreographer with guidance from a pro on technique, song choice, difficulty level, and so much more.
• 28:20
  SPEAKER_02: Starting at just$35, ID8's online judges critiques are a great tool to utilize at any point in the dance season.
• 28:28
  SPEAKER_02: And we are one of the only online critique services in the industry that offers genre-specific judges and rushed 24-hour delivery turnaround time.
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_02: Are you ready to take your dance to the next level?
• 28:39
  SPEAKER_02: Click the link in our show notes or visit our website at ImpactDanceadjudicators.com slash online critique to submit your dance today.
• 28:54
  SPEAKER_00: I think the ballet training is the focus.
• 28:59
  SPEAKER_00: I think the ballet training, the true grit, get in there into your ballet class and hold on to what you learn in your ballet class, and then be able to finesse and refine your movement with your rib cage and your spine and your heart lifting and being able to elongate your portabra and live beyond that ballet structured technique.
• 29:28
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think that is the goal, and that is what has helped shape our professional careers, and what will also help shape younger dancers' professional careers is the true ballet training.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_00: The trust in your training to be able to be able to showcase a turnout and a parallel position rather than everything just be focused parallel and jazzy.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I think someone that really, a dancer that really understands lyrical dance, really also I'm thinking like now moving into the collegiate world, like they are the dancers that really connect with movement and music very well.
• 30:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that like lyrical really helps develop an expressive performance quality.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 30:17
  SPEAKER_03: I think that lyrical, even at you know, a baby age, provides like a structured space to like train and kind of build that emotional authenticity.
• 30:29
  SPEAKER_03: So a dancer that trains in lyrical before entering the professional world, um, if they're being trained correctly, really understands how to like connect with their emotions and storytelling.
• 30:42
  SPEAKER_06: And what I really appreciate, Lindsay, about the studio that you come from, because I've judged them many, many times.
• 30:47
  SPEAKER_06: Um, and always I'm just like, my heart is soaring every time y'all come out.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_06: It's just makes me so happy, is that y'all are training lyrical dancers from a young age to connect their emotions age appropriately.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_06: So I see joy coming from a seven-year-old.
• 31:03
  SPEAKER_06: And that is all I see.
• 31:04
  SPEAKER_06: I don't see angst or anguish or or you know, anything.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_06: I see joy.
• 31:10
  SPEAKER_06: And that's, you know, what what we've said, you know, all along here today is like that's kind of a primary source of what lyrical, you know, wants from you is joy.
• 31:18
  SPEAKER_06: And so I just I just really appreciate that.
• 31:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm sorry, there's nothing wrong, like we always say at our studio, like you have to climb the ladder.
• 31:24
  SPEAKER_03: And like when I'm teaching my minis and my petite, I'm choose, I'm purposely choosing songs in my class that have words and that live in their realm, that they that they love to sing in their car and they hear on their TV.
• 31:38
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, I'm a mom of a seven-year-old.
• 31:40
  SPEAKER_03: So um, I, you know, I know what what those kids are connecting to.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_03: And because they have a human connection to that song already, it it's more they take bigger risks and have and feel more comfortable in class kind of building that performance quality.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, the older they get, they can, you know, you can handle things not as literal and and take away the actual lyrics and present an instrumental song, but it you need to build their confidence up first in class and their trust that they can take risks while performing.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: So I just think like age appropriateness is is so, so important, especially in something like lyrical.
• 32:16
  SPEAKER_01: Literally.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, and the connection to the song.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, a lot of people have called lyrical dance lyric.
• 32:23
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've heard people call it lyric dance, which I'm like, what?
• 32:27
  SPEAKER_01: But that that's what they call it.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_01: And it's a lot of people say like lyrical is meant to be danced to the lyrics, and a lot of people are against lyrical having no lyrics, which I we've talked about on a previous uh lyrical verse contemporary podcast, which I'm here for, uh instrumental lyrical dance.
• 32:42
  SPEAKER_01: It's more about the movement vocabulary that is being displayed in the dance and the quality of the movement that makes it lyrical for me.
• 32:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I do think, especially for younger dancers, they should be dancing to a song with lyrics that they can connect to so they can dive deep into those emo that emotional connection that lyrical does offer.
• 32:59
  SPEAKER_01: And we want that in every style of dance when they come on stage.
• 33:02
  SPEAKER_01: Performance is a part of it.
• 33:03
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that's what makes lyrical so special, like you said, Jeremy, is like having it really come from the heart.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_01: It means it really feels like it's coming from your love of dance, whether it's a happy emotion, a sad emotion, whatever emotion you need to dig into with the song choice, but also as teachers, selecting songs that feel appropriate for the age of the dancer that we're working with and not having throwing them something that's gonna go completely over their head and they don't they can't connect to it at all, it's gonna impact how they perform and also the execution of their movement.
• 33:31
  SPEAKER_05: Right.
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_01: That being said, I'm curious to know about like lyrical in studios and when it should be started.
• 33:40
  SPEAKER_01: How young can it be started in curriculum?
• 33:43
  SPEAKER_01: And does it stay on a schedule for the entire time that they are dancing at the studio, or is it more of a stepping stone type of genre that they eventually phase out of and switch to contemporary?
• 33:59
  SPEAKER_01: What are our thoughts on where lyrical lives in curriculum?
• 34:02
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, so obviously at my studio it's a it's a weekly thing, and we start as we as soon as you enter our company level classes, um, lyrical is introduced.
• 34:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's just uh a different version um when you're in our petite classes at a as a five-year-old.
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_03: You know, we're really working on only it basically looks like a ballet class to lyrical music.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_03: Um, and we are just really helping them feel comfortable developing performance quality while practicing their their ballet terminology and and technique.
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_03: And yeah, at our studio, which just to plug it, is Patty Eisenhower Dance Center in Franklin, Massachusetts.
• 34:42
  SPEAKER_03: Um I yeah, my I, you know, my mentor Patty is the reason that lyrical is like in my veins.
• 34:50
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, she is just my everything and taught me to love it as much as I do.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_03: But we we have a structured class weekly for our students and they take it separate from a contemporary class.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_01: So when is contemporary introduced at what age?
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_03: So um our junior company um begins can uh uh a contemporary class.
• 35:12
  SPEAKER_03: However, contemporary choreography is is selected within that that company also like points at our studio.
• 35:20
  SPEAKER_03: Um, you know, it's an an invitation only kind of situation.
• 35:23
  SPEAKER_03: And then once they're all old enough to to be invited into it, they have the opportunity to kind of perform it in a competition.
• 35:31
  SPEAKER_01: And then final question is lyrical still on the schedule for dancers who have upgraded into contemporary?
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, they're two separate classes.
• 35:39
  SPEAKER_03: So even our seniors have a contemporary class weekly and a lyrical class.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_03: Love to hear it.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's so smart.
• 35:47
  SPEAKER_01: They're two different genres, everybody.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_01: Like you know, it's like there's different things that we are working on in the movement vocabulary of lyrical compared to contemporary.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that contemporary can have more modern influence in what is being done in a weekly technique class with contractions and drop swings and S-curves and laterals and uh floor work and counterbalancing and all of those things, angular shapes.
• 36:14
  SPEAKER_01: The lyrical can have uh tilts and drags and pot berets and pirouettes and turned out positions, like very two very drastically different uh types of movement.
• 36:27
  SPEAKER_01: So I do think it is crucial for a dancer who is hoping to maybe continue on into collegiate dance, c continue on into professional career, to have if the studio allows for time, to have that on the schedule for both.
• 36:40
  SPEAKER_01: I think it is important.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_01: But I can anything to add, Jeremy, as far as age and curriculum.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Age and curriculum.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_00: I think that starting at a young age, because little kids do have emotions, and and a lot of times they don't know what those emotions are, and sometimes they they have outbursts and allowing them to be in a class where you choose proper um music and proper lyrics that they can relate to, like Lindsay was saying, I think starting lyrical at a young age is smart alongside their ballet training.
• 37:23
  SPEAKER_06: Love it.
• 37:24
  SPEAKER_06: Well, so okay, so let's pivot up to so we've talked about little kids.
• 37:28
  SPEAKER_06: Lyrical is not a genre you see necessarily in collegiate dance.
• 37:32
  SPEAKER_06: And you know, these days we do have more programs like OCU and like Boston Conservatory that have more commercially bent angles rather than contemporary or modern.
• 37:42
  SPEAKER_06: But so in in both of y'all's experience, are you able to put lyrical into your curriculum, even if it's not like a dedicated, you know, class every week?
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_06: But is it somehow where do you put that and how does that work in college?
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 37:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um we have performance opportunities several times a year at Oklahoma City University, and I tend to submit lyrical pieces.
• 38:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'll tend to submit a commercial jazz or a a musical theater jazz alongside lyrical.
• 38:19
  SPEAKER_00: So I typically choreograph both for our shows, and I'm fusing and putting lyrical in as much as possible as I can at the university.
• 38:31
  SPEAKER_06: So does it kind of can you can you pop it into your jazz classes?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_00: I can.
• 38:36
  SPEAKER_00: Also, yeah.
• 38:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, because with the way that our jazz class structures happen at OCU, we have several different levels.
• 38:48
  SPEAKER_00: So we out we also within those levels have several different teachers.
• 38:52
  SPEAKER_00: So they're getting different styles from all of us.
• 38:58
  SPEAKER_00: And I I can throw in lyrical and have many times.
• 39:03
  SPEAKER_06: Nice.
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_06: And Lindsay, what about you?
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I mean, uh sadly, I wish that it was seen more at my college.
• 39:11
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I think the only circumstance that like we would do a lyrical class is if we're, you know, done with the material that's like listed for the in the syllabus and the kids like want something fun.
• 39:22
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm just like, yeah, do you guys want to do a lyrical class?
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: And it actually is just the best feeling though, because the way that their eyes light up, all of the former comp kids, when we get to do something like that, is like it it's the best.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but sadly, like we don't have weekly lyrical classes, and and unfortunately, I would even say that unlike Jeremy, our performance opportunities are very much driven, like hip-hop-based heel work, jazz, no lyrical.
• 39:51
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, yeah.
• 39:53
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I mean, I I understand it.
• 39:55
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that it's something that is a genre that you never know when you might need it.
• 40:03
  SPEAKER_01: Like it's kind of in your back pocket type of genre that like you should know how to do it.
• 40:08
  SPEAKER_06: And you should need-thinking of like our cruise ship show, Boogie Wanda Lance has an entire section of lyrical dance, and it's like it's out there in the performing world.
• 40:19
  SPEAKER_06: Disney has lyrical stuff, like all kinds of tours have like, and essentially it's a lot of like you said, kind of elongated adagio.
• 40:26
  SPEAKER_06: Like, maybe they're not calling it lyrical, but we're recognizing it as lyrical.
• 40:30
  SPEAKER_06: So it is there and it's there, valid.
• 40:33
  SPEAKER_06: And but you know, just like with studio life, there's only so many days in the week, there's only so many hours, you know.
• 40:39
  SPEAKER_06: And I think it becomes up to students and universities and beyond to like continue their training on their own time or and to your point, Leslie, like to your point, from my experience, the graduates that that leave our program, the number one job that they leave with is a cruise ship contract.
• 40:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_03: So it is a little bit of a disservice to not be, you know, dusting off that that skill while they're they're in our program.
• 41:06
  SPEAKER_01: But I mean, like you said, like Jeremy, I know you said that you, you know, might throw in a performance op that feels lyrical inspired and maybe we'll do a progression that's lyrical.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: Something that I like to do often.
• 41:19
  SPEAKER_01: If I if I work with dancers on the regular, if I'm teaching a jazz class, I'll teach a progression and we I put Britney Spears on and we hit it across the floor.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_01: And then I put Celine Dion on and I say, do the same sequence, but make it lyrical.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_01: What does that mean?
• 41:34
  SPEAKER_01: You know, and just like change the the uh the the way that we're approaching the movement.
• 41:40
  SPEAKER_01: Let's pull out this drag and let's fill through this and let's syncopate that or whatever it may be.
• 41:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, to just introduce dancers to different movement qualities because we can incorporate that into our jazz classes because, like we said, lyrical is a friend of jazz, it's heavily influenced into it.
• 41:57
  SPEAKER_01: But even like uh the example that you said, Leslie, of cruise ship, like I immediately started thinking, and Jeremy, you can connect to this the Radio City Christmas Spectacular.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_01: If you are not a rocket, I was doing lyrical dance in a heel.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:09
  SPEAKER_01: Excuse me.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_01: Like, what is that?
• 42:11
  SPEAKER_01: You know, like that's what I was doing.
• 42:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was doing drags and Ponche Arabesques in a character heel.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 42:17
  SPEAKER_01: But I needed to understand how to have that quality of movement in my upper body plus the ballet technique to support it to get that job.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just about like high-energy jazz the whole time.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_01: That was a part of the ensemble track was to be able to move in a different way.
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_01: So again, I think that it even if we aren't able to have it incorporated into college, I think that most college programs are introducing dancers to modern and are and are introducing dancers to more contemporary style movement.
• 42:45
  SPEAKER_01: But as studio training dancers and study studios, I think that in curriculum to set your dancers up for success, there should be lyrical somewhere in that mix in their training time through their years.
• 42:57
  SPEAKER_01: So they have that in their back pocket.
• 42:59
  SPEAKER_01: So they know how to move that way when they need to pull it out for a job or or at college when it's totally because it's really interesting.
• 43:08
  SPEAKER_06: Like it's it's almost backwards now from when I think we were growing up, and at least where I trained, I did not learn modern or contemporary.
• 43:15
  SPEAKER_06: I learned lyrical and jazz.
• 43:17
  SPEAKER_06: So when I, you know, and then I went to OCU, where we also don't learn contemporary or modern.
• 43:21
  SPEAKER_06: So then I went to New York City and was like, oh, and that was at the time when contemporary was really starting to like be the big push.
• 43:27
  SPEAKER_06: And they're just not interchangeable.
• 43:30
  SPEAKER_06: I cannot move like that.
• 43:32
  SPEAKER_06: Like I don't have the background, I don't have the training.
• 43:34
  SPEAKER_06: It's not, and I don't feel comfortable doing it.
• 43:36
  SPEAKER_06: And so I it's gotta be the other way around.
• 43:38
  SPEAKER_06: Like if you are heavy, heavy, heavy contemporary in your studio, and then you're given a Doug Caldwell inspired competition, I feel like that's gonna feel very foreign to you.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_06: Right.
• 43:47
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, yeah.
• 43:48
  SPEAKER_06: You really do need it.
• 43:49
  SPEAKER_06: You need it all.
• 43:50
  SPEAKER_06: You've always needed it all, but definitely even more now.
• 43:53
  SPEAKER_01: I feel like that what I notice that's missing when dancers, current dancers who are like beast sex.
• 44:00
  SPEAKER_01: Contemporary, like like we said, athletic, amazing, like h high impact, gorgeous, like can do the craziest things I've ever seen in their life.
• 44:07
  SPEAKER_01: Don't know how to release the tension and expand all the way through their back and reach their arms to their fullest potential and pull off their leg to let that transition take you to the next place and uh find the breath in the movement.
• 44:23
  SPEAKER_01: It feels very stiff and structured and strong and athletic.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_01: That's the type of quality that I think is hard for dancers who only do contemporary have trouble navigating in those types of classes when it is more of a true form lyrical.
• 44:40
  SPEAKER_01: And mixed with that, the continuing to stress the importance of the lack of understanding of how to rotate any position.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_01: Right.
• 44:50
  SPEAKER_01: That is what I think is truly lacking in our entire dance world is the like clean technique of ballet being displayed in any genre of dance that you're doing because everyone's just living in parallel.
• 45:05
  SPEAKER_01: Even people are doing like grande's parallel.
• 45:08
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, that's illegal.
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like that doesn't exist.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_01: Illegal.
• 45:12
  SPEAKER_01: Jail.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_01: Your back room is always turned out in a back Erebus position in the air.
• 45:17
  SPEAKER_01: But we're going into like a sway back turned in hip thing, and we're rewarding it, and we've lost the technique.
• 45:25
  SPEAKER_01: So I I think that for me, I want to see more ballet rotation turned out, not just in the execution, but also in the choreography.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_01: Because the teachers aren't giving it.
• 45:36
  SPEAKER_01: They're not they're not enforcing lead with the heel or you know, st step into this Tanlier and present the heel forward in your boothcase.
• 45:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like all those little baby details that like make bat like the lyrical emphasis of of the ballet training come through so strong that we all love as judges.
• 45:53
  SPEAKER_01: We're like, we eat it up when we see it.
• 45:55
  SPEAKER_03: I just wonder why that is though.
• 45:57
  SPEAKER_03: Like, is it a is it a generational thing?
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: I wonder sometimes.
• 46:01
  SPEAKER_03: Like because I I I when I talk to dance educators my age and you know, people I went to college with, and you know, and I'm 37, so you know, I I I don't know, I don't know where that where the disconnect started.
• 46:18
  SPEAKER_03: You know, the technique has always been such a big part of my training, but not just me, like people that I went to college with and people that I worked with professionally.
• 46:26
  SPEAKER_03: So I just am wondering where the fall-off happened, you know.
• 46:33
  SPEAKER_06: It's a I don't think it's generational either because I agree with you.
• 46:36
  SPEAKER_06: Like I'm 40, so very similar.
• 46:38
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm like, okay, so a lot of us are this age.
• 46:41
  SPEAKER_06: So why are we not seeing what we actually want?
• 46:44
  SPEAKER_06: It's and some of it is I think there's peer pressure, there's social media pressure, you know, there's I I I taught contemporary ish for like a year because somebody wanted me to.
• 46:55
  SPEAKER_06: They were like, Can you just teach us class?
• 46:56
  SPEAKER_06: And I'm like, not really, but they were like, but it's on it's on Thursday and that's your day.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_06: So okay, and it's like that's what I think starts happening.
• 47:04
  SPEAKER_06: And, you know, and and to be honest, this is probably an unpopular opinion, but you like Courtney has said, contemporary is easier to fake through.
• 47:13
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah, you can make really cool shapes, really interesting, and it can be really, really cool to watch and feel probably really good to do.
• 47:19
  SPEAKER_06: But like if I care about presenting my heel in my arabesque and then sliding through into a Tanlier with a beautiful a pommont, that's harder.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, there's a right in Iran, like contemporary.
• 47:29
  SPEAKER_03: There's really that gray area where in lyrical, if I'm watching something and I'm judging it, there's a right way you should be doing it and there's a wrong way.
• 47:36
  SPEAKER_03: There's really no room for, you know, to entertain kind of an in-between.
• 47:41
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 47:43
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, it feels like we're kind of taking the easy way out often when we're opting in for contemporary.
• 47:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I mean, I don't know, even when I see people enter into lyrical, it's not really lyrical.
• 47:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm just kind of like, all right, so you're just blurring these lines on purpose because you want to try to get away with things and you're you want, you know, like and again, it's also about is the choreographer knowing how to disguise the dancer's flaws properly, but ca but also still being true to the genre that they're entering.
• 48:13
  SPEAKER_01: We have categories for a reason, and I I know a lot of people like get upset about that conversation because they're like, well, it shouldn't matter, like we should just dance, you know, like who cares about the category?
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_01: But I think that we can only approach it like that when we're pros.
• 48:27
  SPEAKER_01: Once you have learned the basics, once you have underst understand what is involved in each genre, then we can fuse and blur and do all the things.
• 48:37
  SPEAKER_01: But if you're a training dancer who's nine years old, we can't be blurring anything.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
• 48:41
  SPEAKER_01: I need to know that you know exactly what that position is and what you are going for.
• 48:45
  SPEAKER_01: And I, as a judge, should never have a question.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_01: But I truly do, especially judging lately.
• 48:50
  SPEAKER_01: I just sit there asking questions to the dancers the whole time instead of actually giving corrections.
• 48:55
  SPEAKER_01: Was it this or this?
• 48:56
  SPEAKER_01: Is it contention?
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_01: Are you truly where I'm at?
• 49:00
  SPEAKER_01: Talk to your teacher about that.
• 49:02
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_01: It makes my job so hard.
• 49:05
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, I want to give you a correction, but I don't even know what we were going for there.
• 49:08
  SPEAKER_01: So how do I fix it?
• 49:10
  SPEAKER_05: Oh judging.
• 49:11
  SPEAKER_05: Yeah.
• 49:12
  SPEAKER_06: I guess I have one more final question before we kind of wrap up.
• 49:16
  SPEAKER_06: What do y'all think are some misconceptions about lyrical dance that you wish people would understand?
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_06: People being parents, other teachers, dancers.
• 49:25
  SPEAKER_06: And I'll start.
• 49:26
  SPEAKER_06: I think a misconception is that lyrical is like easy or not as impressive or boring.
• 49:35
  SPEAKER_06: That's what I think the misconception is.
• 49:37
  SPEAKER_06: And I challenge that misconception because as we've said all day today, it's much harder to present your heel in an arabesque and follow through in your fay with the correct e poemont with the you know, leading with your heel and whatever, than it is to do a lunge and undulate into something else.
• 49:52
  SPEAKER_06: That that is what I will say.
• 49:54
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 49:55
  SPEAKER_00: Yes.
• 49:56
  SPEAKER_00: I think a misconception is that it's old school.
• 50:01
  SPEAKER_01: Yes.
• 50:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like hearing people say, oh, well, that's not that's just old school, or that's like in the past.
• 50:08
  SPEAKER_00: It's not that's not a thing anymore.
• 50:11
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, Yes, it is.
• 50:13
  SPEAKER_00: It never went away.
• 50:14
  SPEAKER_00: It never should have gone away.
• 50:17
  SPEAKER_00: It's and Leslie, like you said, and like we've been saying, it is more difficult.
• 50:23
  SPEAKER_00: I think the the difficulty that parents and other dancers might see contemporary is like the like hard-hitting staccato movement, um, throw yourself to the floor, or like arch yourself up from the floor, or it's like more acrobatic.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_00: But I think lyrical dance, and I think Courtney, you mentioned it earlier, transitions, your transition steps, like one move leading into the next.
• 50:57
  SPEAKER_00: Like I I talk about continuous movement and connected movement.
• 51:01
  SPEAKER_00: So, like how you can transition from one step to the other while having gorgeous technique.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_00: Um, so I think lyrical, lyrical is it.
• 51:15
  SPEAKER_00: But you know, and it's it's not old school.
• 51:18
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's not.
• 51:20
  SPEAKER_00: No.
• 51:21
  SPEAKER_01: I live here.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: Let's see.
• 51:22
  SPEAKER_03: I think one big thing for me actually is that when I guest teach a lot in the summer, I kind of like as an icebreaker, I'll have my the younger students go around the room and describe what lyrical is.
• 51:34
  SPEAKER_03: What's a word that you would you know use to describe lyrical?
• 51:37
  SPEAKER_03: And a word that gets thrown around often is slow.
• 51:41
  SPEAKER_03: And of course, lyrical can be slow.
• 51:44
  SPEAKER_03: And I think what they usually mean by that is controlled or fluid.
• 51:48
  SPEAKER_03: But lyrical is, in my opinion, like we've been talking about, the way your body moves.
• 51:53
  SPEAKER_03: It's not a tempo.
• 51:54
  SPEAKER_03: So I make sure with my students that they understand that you know, a fast combination we could we could do in class and and have a fast song, but it shouldn't change the way that you're you're moving your body, and it certainly shouldn't change the way that you're executing your technique.
• 52:11
  SPEAKER_03: Right.
• 52:12
  SPEAKER_03: So you you definitely can see a lyrical dance.
• 52:15
  SPEAKER_03: It doesn't always have to be slow and sad, and um, you know, you can find joyous and quick moving songs, but the quality that you're moving should stay the same.
• 52:25
  SPEAKER_03: And and I think a huge part of that too, the quality, just to kind of throw this into for teachers listening, is you have to set the standards from the beginning with Lyrical on what storytelling and performing um should feel like and be.
• 52:42
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that um, Jeremy, you probably would say this about Doug, like uh you know, our our babies, our little five to eight year olds, they know in class that they have to use their face.
• 52:53
  SPEAKER_03: They know that they have to use eye contact.
• 52:55
  SPEAKER_03: And I think a big part of that is that when I'm teaching, you know, my leg isn't gonna go up to my ear anymore, but I am always going to be like projecting a hundred percent emotionally and using my portabra and using and showing them what it should look like.
• 53:11
  SPEAKER_03: And I feel like I, you know, I never had the chance to take class with Doug, but I honor his work and love watching his videos.
• 53:18
  SPEAKER_03: And something that was so beautiful about him to watch um when he taught is that he was executing exactly what he wanted to see.
• 53:27
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that if you're building a lyrical program in your studio, showing that to your students, not need you know, not needing to do pirouettes and you know soda shaws, but showing them kind of what that looks like will help make it very successful.
• 53:43
  SPEAKER_06: Gosh, we haven't even really touched on storytelling.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_06: Like this episode could go on for another hour.
• 53:48
  SPEAKER_06: I know.
• 53:49
  SPEAKER_00: Absolutely.
• 53:50
  SPEAKER_01: A misconception that I feel in Lyrical is that it's amateur.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_01: I think that a lot of older dancers think that they're beyond doing lyrical at a certain age, which is why I asked that question, Lindsay, to you earlier as to is lyrical still on a weekly schedule for your dancers who have upgraded out of it.
• 54:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I think that a lot of people just look at it as like, oh, that's what the little kids do.
• 54:15
  SPEAKER_01: Like, why would I do that?
• 54:16
  SPEAKER_01: Why would I wear a pretty lyrical skirt and go out in my padinies and my tights and do that on stage?
• 54:22
  SPEAKER_01: I I want to do something that's more mature and contemporary and and you know, all of the things.
• 54:27
  SPEAKER_01: So uh that's a misconception that I don't really feel is true.
• 54:32
  SPEAKER_01: And also I love what you were saying about the slow tempo.
• 54:35
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that that's another thing that can be implemented into studio training, where as the example that I said within a jazz class, yeah, jazz progression with and then change the song and make it lyrical.
• 54:48
  SPEAKER_01: I think the same thing can be done with the lyrical phrase.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_01: Here's the here's what it's developed to, and maybe it's a slower tempo.
• 54:54
  SPEAKER_01: I'm gonna put a fast version on, you still have to do it.
• 54:57
  SPEAKER_01: Same quality of movement.
• 54:58
  SPEAKER_01: Up how does that change the way you execute it?
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's just a faster pace.
• 55:03
  SPEAKER_01: So exploring the use of music, tempos, qualities of mo of of music that influence the movement, I think can be really great ways to incorporate uh new styles into dancers' training without having that weekly lyrical class if you don't have time for it.
• 55:20
  SPEAKER_01: Um, just to expose them to it because like like we said, I mean, it's hard to get all these genres out into a weekly class, especially if we're like, and take three days a week ballet.
• 55:31
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it's like there's no time for everything.
• 55:34
  SPEAKER_01: So um finding ways to at least introduce our dancers to it, but I want more, I want more people to like embrace lyrical.
• 55:42
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I want to I want to I want more choreographers to like really when you step into the studio, no, I am making a lyrical piece right now.
• 55:51
  SPEAKER_01: Not just whatever I'm I want, like I want, I would love to see, and I always thank it when I see it at calm.
• 55:57
  SPEAKER_01: Like, ah, thank you so much for a true lyrical dance.
• 56:00
  SPEAKER_01: You understand the category that you're entering into.
• 56:02
  SPEAKER_01: It's so refreshing.
• 56:04
  SPEAKER_00: Well, I I think it's I think it's allowing those who think ballet is boring.
• 56:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's allowing them to get ballet training while having the freedom to have a little bit of of jazz lines in there.
• 56:22
  SPEAKER_00: So I think I think it would be a smart move for more studios to implement.
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_00: Maybe it's that those lyrical classes are gonna fill up more than your ballet classes, even though we all know that your ballet training is the goal, that's your foundation.
• 56:40
  SPEAKER_00: So I think it's a a good way to to keep honing the ballet technique.
• 56:46
  SPEAKER_06: Yeah.
• 56:53
  SPEAKER_03: I think don't be afraid to just under if you're again, this is like aimed towards teachers mostly and dancers, but like just don't be afraid to understand that like lyrical along with any other technique is going to be a marathon and not a sprint.
• 57:09
  SPEAKER_03: And don't rush the building of the quality of your movement.
• 57:14
  SPEAKER_03: Your baseline is going to be your technique.
• 57:16
  SPEAKER_03: I know you know we can say it until we're blue in the face, but ballet, ballet, ballet is really what it's gonna take to like, I think, even just feel comfortable in lyrical, but definitely also to excel in it too.
• 57:33
  SPEAKER_01: We hope you enjoyed our latest episode, all about why lyrical dance should be a priority in your weekly training.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_01: Special shout out to our guests, Jeremy and Lindsay, for joining us on this fantastic chat.
• 57:45
  SPEAKER_01: Don't forget to follow them on Instagram.
• 57:47
  SPEAKER_01: You can find Jeremy at JeremyDuvall and Lindsay at Lindsay TKlein.
• 57:53
  SPEAKER_06: Don't forget to follow Making the Impact on Apple Podcasts, Spotify, Amazon Podcasts, and pretty much everywhere you listen to podcasts.
• 58:00
  SPEAKER_06: And if you want more exclusive episodes, support our podcast by joining our Platinum Premium membership for only$5 a month.
• 58:06
  SPEAKER_06: Subscribers receive free Making the Impact stickers, shout-outs live on the air, ad-free listening, and exclusive access to our QA episodes for members only.
• 58:14
  SPEAKER_06: Join now at Impact Dance Adjudicators.com slash Platinum Premium or click the link in our show notes.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_02: Be sure to check out IDA affiliated competition, Oro Dance Competition.
• 58:27
  SPEAKER_02: At Oro Dance Competition, they believe every dancer deserves more than just a score.
• 58:32
  SPEAKER_02: They deserve an experience.
• 58:34
  SPEAKER_02: That's why at Oro, they go beyond the stage to create moments that inspire, motivate, and celebrate talent.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_02: From their professional panels of IDA judges to their awards, every detail is designed to make dancers feel seen and supported.
• 58:49
  SPEAKER_02: And in 2026, Oro is heading to over 17 cities nationwide, bringing their golden experience to studios and families across the country.
• 58:58
  SPEAKER_02: Join Oro for a competition that's more than an event.
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_02: It's a community, a lifestyle, and a place where dancers shine their brightest.
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_02: Oro Dance Competition, where talent shines brighter than gold.
• 59:10
  SPEAKER_02: Learn more and find a city near you at Orodance.com.
• 59:15
  SPEAKER_06: Season 7 is on a roll here at Making the Impact.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_06: Coming up soon, look forward to a throwback episode, a special QA with Courtney, and an interview with the 2025 Ace Award winners.
• 59:28
  SPEAKER_01: See you next week for some more exciting episodes on Making the Impact.