Latest / The Art of Costume Podcast / The Last of Us Season Two with Costume Designer, Ann Foley

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The Last of Us Season Two with Costume Designer, Ann Foley · The Art of Costume Podcast

0:05
Hello and welcome to the Art of Costume podcast.
0:08
I am your host, Spencer Williams, and thank you so much
0:11
for joining me for another bonus episode.
0:14
Hey, cost the nerds. As promised, we said once The
0:18
Last of Us Season 2 comes to an end that we bring Anne Foley
0:21
back to talk about this incredible season and there's
0:25
quite a bit to talk about. I mean, just so you all know,
0:28
there's going to be some spoilers in this episode.
0:30
So if you have not seen it yet, go back and finish The Last of
0:32
Us Season 2 and come back as we're going to talk about the
0:36
town of Jackson, working with all the infected, the journey of
0:41
Ellie, Joel's levelling up in Jackson as he becomes the
0:45
ultimate dad, and also of course, all the factions that
0:49
live in Seattle like the Seraphytes and the WLF.
0:53
There's a lot to talk about. So after this break, please
0:56
welcome back costume designer and Foley.
1:02
Hi, I'm Dan who does all the magic behind the scenes.
1:06
I wanted to say thank you. And if you want to support the
1:08
show even farther, go to tpublic.com/user slash the Art
1:15
of Costume where you can buy a couple variations of our logo on
1:19
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1:23
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1:27
leave us a five star review on Apple Podcast.
1:30
Now back to the show. I am so happy to welcome back to
1:39
the podcast my friend, costume designer Anne Foley.
1:42
Hey, Anne, how's it going? Spence good.
1:44
How are you? Good, still calling from
1:46
Australia I see. Yes, I am.
1:50
That's cool, though. We're all excited to see what
1:52
you have coming up next. But let's talk about last night.
1:56
Yeah, this episode is coming out.
1:57
I mean, last night would have been the season finale, but this
2:00
episode's going to be coming out in a couple weeks.
2:02
What was it like to see the season now play out all of your
2:05
crew's hard work on the big screen with that epic finale
2:09
last night? I'm still processing.
2:12
It's exciting. It's, you know, like, wow, I
2:16
can't believe it's actually done and Oh my God, Season 3 is going
2:23
to be starting before we know it.
2:25
So all sorts of like all sorts of feelings going on.
2:29
But it was really great. I mean, the performances last
2:32
night were next level and broke my heart.
2:37
I mean, really the scene with Mel and Owen, even though I was
2:41
there and I worked on it, it was really hard to watch.
2:44
And Bella's performance, just incredible, really incredible.
2:50
Yeah, I mean, it's the whole thing just felt entirely epic.
2:54
I made that entire sequence in the the water, by the way, I was
2:58
thinking of you too. I'm like, how?
3:01
How did this happen with all of them swimming around the water?
3:03
That sounds like such a pain in the ass, but you know.
3:06
Well, not the easiest stuff to do but thank God Bella is such a
3:10
trooper and the SET team made sure to take such good care of
3:16
of B. And it was uncomfortable,
3:20
definitely, but they got through it and it looked incredible.
3:24
Well, let's dive into it. I'm so excited.
3:25
So you joined The Last of Us for the second season.
3:29
And I just have to mention we were just talking about this
3:31
behind the scenes. I'm such a fan of Craig Mazin
3:33
and Neil Druckman. I don't really shout out other
3:35
podcasts on this podcast, but they have a great podcast
3:39
talking about The Last of Us and I, I love listening to them talk
3:43
about just a storytelling in a direction and the writing.
3:47
So then that brings in you, I'd love to hear about your
3:50
relationship to The Last of Us before you go on to the series.
3:53
And what those initial conversations look like with
3:56
Craig and Neil and talking about the direction of the show in
3:59
terms of the costume, especially since it takes place, you know,
4:02
so many years later, but just the overall feeling.
4:05
What? What were those conversations
4:07
like? The big conversations were it's
4:11
five years later and this season is really about its different
4:18
communities, whether it's Jackson, whether it's the
4:21
Infected, the Seraphytes, the WLF, and each one of these
4:27
communities having its own look and its own voice.
4:35
And with Jackson specifically, this was a really great
4:39
opportunity to get in there because Season 1, you saw a
4:43
little bit of Jackson, but you really didn't the as much as you
4:47
do this season. And so it was, you know, the
4:53
conversation with Craig and Neil was how do we want to show the
4:58
difference between the Jackson residents and then the refugees
5:02
that are coming in and seeing that Jackson is this thriving
5:08
community that has running water.
5:11
They have power, they're building, they are a functioning
5:16
community. And so they're not going to be
5:18
as dirty and downtrodden as the refugees coming in like season
5:24
1. That was a road show.
5:26
That was Ellie and Joel on the road going from one QZ to
5:30
another. And the Q ZS were not really
5:33
functioning communities, not in the way that Jackson is.
5:35
People were just surviving. And but in Jackson, people are
5:40
thriving and they're living. So the clothes aren't
5:44
necessarily as dirty as they were season 1, but they're
5:49
lovingly worn in because everybody's taking care of their
5:53
clothes and you wear your clothes until they literally
5:58
will fall apart. So and then when we start going
6:03
out into, you know, outside of Jackson and even with the
6:07
infected, I wanted the infected to have like their own sort of
6:14
look in that. Who was that person before they
6:18
got bit? So every single background and
6:21
stunt performer for the infected came in for a fitting.
6:25
They got their own costume. And we always tried to come from
6:29
that place of like, who was this person?
6:32
Were they a refugee coming towards Jackson?
6:34
Was this someone who lives somewhere outside of Jackson?
6:38
How long had they been infected? And then also give them a little
6:43
bit more color and texture so that you could see them in the
6:47
snow and in that Blizzard when the Horde descended upon
6:53
Jackson. But with Craig and Neil, they
6:57
were very, they were very clear about wanting to show the
7:03
integration between the Cordyceps and the clothing this
7:07
season. They really wanted to see the
7:11
Cordyceps growing out of the weave of the clothing and the
7:14
two becoming 1. And so we worked really closely
7:18
with Barry Gower and his team who are amazing and they would
7:23
create all those pieces for us. And then we we would integrate
7:27
all of those pieces into into the costumes.
7:30
Think a clicker was about a 10 day integration and painting all
7:35
that in. Yeah.
7:36
So it was, it was a real, it was a process, but it was a
7:39
beautiful process. And my breakdown team really did
7:43
an amazing job. So proud of them.
7:45
Yeah, I feel like we could do entire podcast just about the
7:48
clickers, but maybe we'll wait a little bit later for that.
7:53
Yeah. And we also, of course, have to
7:55
talk about the game as it's just such a major influence on the
7:58
series. You know, for better or worse,
8:00
every every show and designer approaches this kind of
8:03
adaptation differently. So I'm curious, how did you go
8:06
about translating the costumes from the game into this live
8:09
action world? Are you trying to do things
8:12
exactly as you see it on screen? Is there a license to change
8:15
things and do things more realistically for live action?
8:19
How does that look to you in terms of The Last of Us?
8:21
It's a little bit of all of that.
8:23
One of the amazing things about working with Craig and Neil are
8:29
they they understand and they know that I'm going to try to
8:34
stay true to the game, but they always wanted to see what my
8:39
take was going to be on it. So we kind of always fell
8:42
somewhere in the middle and it just depended on what the story
8:45
requirements were. You know, for example, in
8:48
Jackson in the game, Joel's wearing a lightweight, it looks
8:54
like a canvas jacket and Abby's in a nylon bomber.
8:59
So, and I actually had these conversations with Ashley
9:04
Swatowski at Naughty Dog, who's one of the game designers and
9:09
was responsible for some of the costume design in the game.
9:14
And I would always have these great conversations with her
9:18
about how did you get to this place?
9:20
What was the tension? And then, you know, when we were
9:25
talking about Jackson, it's like, this is great for the game
9:28
because there's nobody that's getting cold in real life.
9:31
But we're going to have to change this because we're
9:36
shooting in northern Alberta in the mountains and Blizzard.
9:39
So which everybody understood that that was going to happen.
9:44
And that's, you know, why everybody's dressed the way that
9:47
they are in those parkas. But in other areas, like in
9:53
Episode 6, in one of the flashbacks when Joel takes Ellie
9:58
to the museum, I wanted AI wanted an actual replica of that
10:04
T-shirt. So we screen printed that
10:06
T-shirt because it's such an important moment in the game.
10:09
And I felt that that's what was going to serve the story best,
10:14
was to recreate that T-shirt in the game.
10:18
It's a tank top. But I decided I wanted it to be
10:22
a T-shirt for Ellie because a baggy T-shirt felt more
10:27
realistic for a kid. And, and the tank top felt a
10:31
little bit too adult. So that's why we we made that
10:35
shift. And Neil was completely
10:37
supportive of that. So let's jump into season 2.
10:41
We, we kind of talked about this a little bit, but we open in
10:43
Jackson during the dead of winter.
10:45
It's five years after the events of season 1 and life seems
10:49
relatively stable, as much as it can be at this point.
10:52
The affected are basically under control.
10:54
So we think the town is thriving, a community has a bit
10:57
of sense of normalcy. So the outbreak began in 2003
11:01
and we're now in 2028. Twenty 9:00-ish I believe, with
11:06
traditional clothing likely no longer being produced.
11:10
So with that in mind, how do you do you approach a costuming of
11:13
this community? Is it the idea that we're
11:15
finding things and really taking care of them?
11:18
Yes. They are finding things and they
11:21
are taking care of their clothes.
11:24
Specifically, Jackson and I was trying to stay with brands for
11:31
the principles that I knew existed in that timeline.
11:35
Gap or Heart, Levi's, Wrangler, Vans.
11:42
And if it was something that we needed that wasn't necessarily
11:48
in our timeline, we tried to keep it timeless so that it
11:52
didn't wasn't going to stick out and people weren't going to
11:55
notice it. Now, that being said, there has
11:59
been a lot of conversation around Deena's jacket, which I
12:04
initially had put on my mood boards as just an idea of
12:09
something that had a late 90s vibe to it and just those nylon
12:14
puffers. And, and when Neil saw it on my
12:18
boards, he was immediately drawn to it.
12:21
And we had the conversation of, well, avian, our nation was not
12:26
in our timeline. They weren't founded until 2006.
12:31
And, you know, Craig and Neil are so great about this sort of
12:35
thing because they they're like, OK, thank you for that
12:39
information. And but it's like, it kind of
12:42
doesn't matter because that's what serves the story.
12:45
And same with Joel's jacket, his Flint and Tinder jacket from
12:49
last season. That's not in the timeline
12:52
either. But it doesn't matter because it
12:54
became an iconic piece and it's just perfect for Joel.
13:00
And that's how Craig and Neil felt about that jacket For Dina,
13:03
it just spoke to them as something that would be true to
13:09
her character. And because Dina is this
13:12
effervescent, colorful, wonderful human being who is the
13:18
light in Ellie's life and and Isabella is like that in real
13:24
life as well. So it just made sense.
13:27
And then of course, when is he put that jacket on?
13:30
That was sort of the end of it. It was like, yeah, that's it.
13:32
That's so deep. I was going to ask you about
13:35
that too, right. There's literally when
13:37
Isabella's walking next to Bella in Seattle, just you could feel
13:41
like the rage on Bella, but just like this kind of cheerfulness.
13:44
There's not a lot of happy moments in this season,
13:47
unfortunately. But like, just the moments when
13:49
are walking together in silence and just kind of feel the
13:51
cheerfulness coming off of Dina. I thought it was very profound,
13:54
actually, just. And I think it has to do a lot
13:57
with the way you use colour. Yeah, that felt very
13:59
intentional. It was.
14:00
Completely intentional. You're you're not going to see
14:04
any color, any bright color or pattern really on Ellie the
14:08
season. And when you do see pattern, it
14:11
tends to be Plaid. And it's because I wanted there
14:16
to be a connection between her and Joel.
14:19
And so their color palettes are very similar.
14:24
And you really see this in episode 6 where Ellie as a 14
14:31
year old turning 15 that morning of her birthday in that light
14:36
yellow T-shirt stripe. And as she starts to get older,
14:43
you see the Blues starting to come in.
14:46
She's not like lights, you know, fun kid anymore.
14:51
She's getting a little bit darker.
14:53
And and then when you hit Seattle, all of the the pattern
15:00
is completely stripped away and it just be shades of blue and
15:05
dark green. And that is to sort of reflect
15:08
where she is emotionally in this journey.
15:12
And and yeah, with Dina, Dina is the one light thing in her life.
15:20
And, and Dina is there to sort of try to pull Ellie out of that
15:25
darkness. Yeah, let's talk about Ellie,
15:28
actually, and I actually want to jump ahead to episode 6 because
15:32
this is another episode where I was thinking about you the
15:34
entire time watching it. Can I just guess this was one of
15:37
your favorite episodes? Yeah, must have.
15:40
Yeah, I totally knew it. I.
15:43
Listen, I rarely, if ever have I cried reading a script and this
15:48
one got me and and then when I watched it again, I cried again.
15:54
I was just like, wow, it's a it's a beautiful episode.
15:58
Neil Druckman is such a genius, and the way that he directed
16:03
this episode was just incredible.
16:05
It was. A crow.
16:06
I've, I've watched it two or three Times Now and cried every
16:09
time. It's, it's just so good.
16:11
So this episode really explores Joel and Ellie's life together
16:15
during those five years between seasons one and two from, as you
16:18
mentioned, Ellie's 15th birthday to when she's nearly 20, when we
16:21
kind of catch up to the current timeline.
16:24
Tell me about your work on this episode, because I would I would
16:26
love to hear about your collaboration with Bella Ramsey
16:28
and how you were able to show. I mean, so much growth for this
16:33
character through costume design in such a short amount of time.
16:36
And one episode we were able to kind of get a full picture of
16:40
just how Ellie has grown up now and what really takes us to
16:44
where we are in the story through costume design.
16:46
Without because Bella Ramsay wasn't actually getting older.
16:50
No so to say, but the costumes really helped tell that story.
16:54
Well, that was because of silhouette changes and those
17:00
were a lot of conversations that I had not only with Craig and
17:04
Neil, but with Bella. So in the earlier years, like
17:08
the 1516 year, like she is in baggier jeans, baggier longer
17:17
T-shirts, everything's a little more oversized.
17:21
But as she starts to get older and we hit 19, that's when you
17:27
see the slimmer Jean, that's when you see the high tops,
17:32
That's when you see the T-shirts are shorter in the body, the
17:38
shirts are slimmer in the body as well.
17:40
So everything is just coming in a little bit and it's a little
17:44
more streamlined. And that helped to show that
17:48
growth, you know, into that young adult and away from that,
17:52
that kid. And but also again with the
17:56
color palette and moving away from those brighter, more
18:00
youthful colors and towards that darker palette, that bluer
18:06
palette, which made complete sense with what was going on
18:11
with Ellie at that time as she was transitioning into this
18:16
young adult person, trying to figure out who she was.
18:19
And tell me a. Little bit about your
18:21
collaboration with Bella too, because I can imagine this was,
18:24
it's such a difficult season to get through.
18:28
It's a lot of traumatic, hard stuff.
18:30
And I imagine Bella probably had some sort of insight on how
18:33
these costumes really work. So what was that collaboration
18:36
like, Bella? Is an amazing collaborator and
18:41
knew exactly, you know, what was right for Ellie and what wasn't.
18:49
And we started having those conversations early on in prep.
18:55
And I remember when I read the first script and I saw that
18:59
Ellie was going to be in converse in the snow.
19:04
And I asked the question. I said to Craig.
19:07
I said really? And he was like, yeah, we're
19:10
going to do this. And I'm like, OK.
19:12
So I have always been obsessed with in the game, Ellie's
19:17
Journal and the Doodles and I didn't play the game but I did
19:22
watch a 15 hour playthrough and so whenever I was watching.
19:28
Yeah. So I feel like I played the
19:30
game, but I would always like stop on the journal to see what
19:37
Ellie was doodling in there. And then I had this thought and
19:42
I talked to Craig about it. I said, what if we give Bella,
19:47
you know, a pair of converse just to doodle on like Ellie
19:51
would because that's what teenagers do.
19:54
He loved the idea. And then I gave a pair to Bella
19:57
and I said, I want you to take these, doodle on these.
20:02
Take as much time as you need. Just channel Ellie and make
20:08
these your own. And then what they came back
20:11
with was so incredible. And I never even asked Bella
20:16
what some of that stuff meant because I felt it was between
20:20
Bella and Ellie. And, and it's little things like
20:25
that that help the actors find their characters because even if
20:30
the audience never saw the doodles on those sneakers, Bella
20:36
knew they were there. And so I try to help the actors
20:41
with little things like that to sort of help them find their
20:45
characters. So whether it's the doodles on
20:47
the sneaker, whether it's the rainbow jacket for Dina or for
20:54
Tommy, it was his red Plaid cheer length that he wore in the
20:59
1st 2 episodes. And the intention behind that
21:03
was I wanted Maria to be able to see Tommy in the middle of all
21:09
of that chaos as she's standing on the roof.
21:12
I want her to be able to spot him in the midst of that.
21:16
And not only Maria, by the way, but the audience too, so that
21:19
you can see Tommy and all of that insanity that's happening
21:24
down on the street. And then making sure that the
21:27
infected that were around Tommy, nobody else have read on them.
21:32
Tommy was the old one so that he really stood out.
21:36
So it's little thing. It's things like that that you
21:38
try to do for the cast and to help them, but they're all so
21:44
fantastic and they all have such a wonderful sense of who their
21:49
characters are that it's an absolute joy to be able to
21:52
collaborate with each and every one of them.
21:54
So. That leads us to talk about Joel
21:56
for a little bit. You know, he's not in this
21:58
series very much at this point, which I very, very much
22:03
suspected. And I was hoping those
22:05
suspicions won't come true, but they did.
22:07
Joel has reached peak dad mode. I would say.
22:10
He's very much like a figure of the community he's working in.
22:14
Construction is very kind of rough, but you can also tell
22:17
that Joel's had a he's had a life at this point, and he's
22:21
very much. I would say he's a couple years
22:23
away from retirement if he really could have to.
22:25
Yeah. I think he wanted a sheep farm
22:27
or something, yeah. Yeah, so talk about working with
22:32
Pedro Pascal and shaping Joel for this stage of his life as
22:35
he's becoming this very central figure to the Jackson community.
22:40
Yeah, again, Pedro was an incredible collaborator.
22:45
And again, he has an an amazing sense of who Joel is.
22:50
And because it is five years later and he is now a dad and a
22:56
pillar of the community, how do we show that it?
23:00
And we came on, you know, set a little change, like, hey, let's
23:03
have Joel took his shirts in like Tommy, because Tommy's a
23:07
dad. Tommy's a pillar of the
23:08
community. And he's always got a shirt
23:10
stuffed in. So it was a little, it's little
23:13
subtle things like that. And then we talked about which,
23:18
you know, item of clothing would Joel bring, you know, still hold
23:24
on to and keep what, what piece did we want to bring back from
23:28
last season? And we landed on that jacket
23:32
because having read ahead and knowing what was coming, we
23:38
wanted the audience, not just Ellie, but the audience to have
23:43
a heartbreaking reaction to that garment hanging in the closet
23:48
when Ellie goes into his bedroom and just holds it, puts her face
23:53
in it. I mean it, when I read it, I I
23:55
just knew immediately it needed to be that jacket.
23:58
And so, and Pedro was 100% on board with that.
24:07
And because it served the story, it made so much sense.
24:10
And at the end of the day, that's what, you know, we need
24:13
to do is we have to serve the story.
24:15
And costume designers are storytellers.
24:17
So what story are we trying to tell here?
24:20
Gosh. Well, rest in peace, Joel.
24:25
If you if you're not caught up on The Last of Us and you're
24:27
listening to this, I'm very sorry you have to find.
24:30
Out this way. But you should have caught up,
24:33
so let's start hanging into Seattle a little bit.
24:36
So we were talking about the infected and how you really, we
24:40
really got to show them, not we. You really got to show them in a
24:43
new light being in the snow. But now we're in Seattle and the
24:45
environment's totally different. It feels a lot more.
24:48
Even though it didn't look that much warmer, it definitely
24:51
wasn't covered in snow. So how did this impact how you
24:55
got the show the the infected? And we got to see a lot more of
24:59
these stalkers also, which were absolutely horrifying.
25:02
I would love to hear about just your process working with
25:04
Defected. I'm sure you've never worked on
25:07
a character such as this, no? So far, I mean, not many people
25:11
have, but it was, it was a great, it was a great challenge.
25:16
And my team rose to that challenge and thank God we had
25:20
Barry Gower and his team to help us create be infected.
25:26
And there was a definite difference in color palette of
25:32
the Cordyceps between Seattle and Jackson.
25:38
And because you're talking about different climates, different
25:41
environments, and Seattle is going to be a much more damp
25:45
environment. There's more rain there.
25:48
And so there was a lot more, there's a lot more color in the
25:54
Cordyceps, and it was really beautiful.
25:57
I think I put some close-ups of it on my Instagram page if
26:00
anyone's interested. But when it came to the horde
26:04
down there, I really wanted to do a few nods to Seattle.
26:10
And so you're going to see one of them in a Seattle Loggers
26:16
sweatshirts. And then the Clicker has a
26:21
really great 90s, you know, Hard Rock band T-shirt on with a
26:28
stripe over shirt, super grunge, you know, at that time.
26:33
So sick. I love it, I know.
26:35
I was like, this is one of my favorite costumes of the season
26:37
randomly, so I was just so excited that I was allowed to do
26:41
it. And so yeah.
26:46
And then again, it was just about the integration of the
26:52
Cordyceps into the clothes. And I would say that for the
26:56
Seattle infected, it's a little more wet and you're going to see
27:03
a lot more, you know, oozing and a lot more stuff.
27:09
But it's really beautiful. It's disgusting, but it's really
27:12
beautiful. I mean, it's art that the team
27:15
was creating. It's.
27:16
Tragically beautiful. And like to add what you're
27:18
saying, I mean, it really speaks to like the very deep
27:21
storytelling that's even happening with infected
27:23
characters because through that costume, you're able to add
27:26
humanity to the affected. When you see yourself in that
27:29
grungy sweater, it's like, Oh well, I have that sweater.
27:33
So that's what makes it so like, terrifying though.
27:35
Well. That was the whole point with
27:37
the first stalker that you see in episode 1.
27:42
She was in a Gap lace eyelet blouse that you could have given
27:49
to your mom or Mother's Day present or something.
27:52
It was a total mom blouse with a pair of low rise flared jeans,
27:59
which I had a million pairs of those in the late 90s.
28:04
And and so when you saw her in this costume with these, you
28:11
know, tendrils and you know, the makeup, it was really scary
28:17
because it was actually one of those moments where me and the
28:21
team had that. Oh my God.
28:24
The scary thing about this is that it's really real and you
28:28
have a visceral reaction to it, and that's what Craig wanted.
28:33
He is. It's incredibly important to
28:37
Craig to keep everything steeped in reality and not take anything
28:43
out too far out there. Just make it as real as possible
28:46
so the audience does have a visceral reaction to what
28:49
they're watching. Yeah, I mean, well, mission
28:52
accomplished because that was horrifying.
28:56
What else is horrifying is all of the factions are happening in
29:00
Seattle. So let's I think honestly, one
29:02
of the funniest moments of the entire season is like that brief
29:05
moment where Bella, Ellie and Dina at CCI don't like, oh, like
29:09
seems nice because we all know we're like, OK, not so much.
29:14
Let's start with the WLFI. To me, I feel like one of the
29:18
hardest types of costume to do is like a very militarized
29:22
costume. I could be wrong about that, but
29:24
it must have took an army to build this army because there's
29:27
a ton of them and it's it's pretty nice armor.
29:31
I would say they look like a legit army.
29:33
So talk to me about the WF. And also maybe their leader
29:37
played by Jeffrey Wright, who also played this character in
29:41
the game as well too, which is very exciting.
29:43
Yeah. Well, it's great because you see
29:46
you meet Isaac in a flashback as a leader in Federer and and then
29:53
you understand how the WLF was formed.
29:57
And in our earlier conversations with Craig and Neil, we thought,
30:03
what would they, you know, what would they use for their gear?
30:08
Well, they would use all the Fetra stuff because that's
30:12
practical. You just don't throw that stuff
30:14
away. You take it and you use it.
30:17
So when you see the WLF, you see pieces of the old Federer
30:23
uniform sprinkled in there. And so we would RIP the patches
30:28
off and we would leave these scars on sleeves of where the
30:31
old patches were. Or sometimes we would RIP the
30:34
patch in half so that there was still a remnant of the Federer
30:38
patch, because again, that's what they would have done in
30:41
real life. And then we would strip color
30:45
out of some of the uniforms, but then blend them in with just AT
30:51
shirt and throw the old Federer vest on top of it with the
30:55
handmade WLF patches. So they felt like a, a rebel
31:02
army, not a, you know, more functional army, like what
31:09
Federer was, but still functional, but just not as
31:14
militarized as what Federer was. And so the color palette in the
31:19
game is very brown and Gray. And then I added the blue in
31:25
there from Phedra. So that's sort of that's the
31:29
color palette for the WLF. But yeah, it's a mix of civilian
31:34
Phedra and a little military stuff thrown in there for a good
31:38
measure that they could have found anywhere.
31:41
And again, because they're scrounging, they're finding
31:43
clothes the same way everybody else does.
31:47
So maybe they raided an old army surplus in Seattle and got got
31:51
some stuff. So, and to their help also the
31:56
Seraphytes don't seem to be very interested in that sort of
31:59
armor. So let's talk about the
32:00
Seraphytes, the religious faction that lives in the very
32:04
forest region of Seattle, WA. I love their costumes because
32:10
they just feel very practical and handmade.
32:12
You could tell that they've really kind of gone back to
32:15
their more primitive nature. So can you, can you tell me
32:18
about your approach to designing for the Seraphytes?
32:21
What makes them so terrifying, too?
32:24
Yeah, they. Are really scary.
32:27
The Seraphytes were another thing that drew me into wanting
32:31
to do season 2. I was so fascinated with them
32:35
and they are a Luddite group that lives off of the land.
32:42
They make their own tools and their own weapons and their own
32:46
clothes. And so again, I talked to Ashley
32:51
Swadowski from Naughty Dog with along with Imaging Shays, who's
32:55
my costume concept illustrator, and we had several conversations
33:00
about Seraphytes and how did you guys get to this place and OK,
33:05
this is how you got there. We're going to take it to the
33:08
next place and and one of the things I felt was important to
33:13
do was sort of lose the raincoat idea that they were in the game
33:18
because I didn't believe that they would actually find an army
33:24
surplus them and like take all these raincoats or wherever they
33:27
would have found them, they would have made something.
33:30
So they're near water. They're near that old abandoned
33:36
Marina. So I thought maybe they took
33:38
canvas off of old boats and just made these ponchos.
33:43
So when you see the ponchos, you see different colors of canvas
33:47
mixed in there as they would have like puzzled something, you
33:51
know, together. And then each poncho has a hand
33:56
painted seraphite symbol on the back.
33:58
So every poncho is unique to its wear.
34:03
They scare the life out of me, honestly.
34:05
Yeah. Yeah, I mean, I'm so happy with
34:08
how they turned out. And yeah, their color palette
34:11
again is just, it's of the Seattle forest, right?
34:15
So it's Browns and it's greens and so that they can blend in.
34:20
That's what's so terrifying about them, I must add, is that
34:22
it just feels like they could be anywhere and it feels like
34:25
they're watching in the costume. Really.
34:27
It helps them as a tool. I would say it too.
34:29
Which, yeah, even the children. I'm like, oh, no, this is not
34:33
going to go well. So you you mentioned imaging who
34:38
I want to talk about. So this is a massive show, which
34:42
obviously must require a massive team.
34:44
So I was wondering if we can actually take this moment to
34:46
just shout out your crew and just.
34:49
Absolutely. Yeah.
34:50
Can we talk about the team and how you guys all pull this off
34:53
together? Who Who helped you make this
34:54
happen? Oh, my God.
34:56
Well, I had a team of about 65 people and one of the most
35:02
brilliant crews I've ever been blessed with in my entire
35:05
career. And it does take a village.
35:10
Carol Griffin, who's my costume supervisor, put together an
35:15
absolutely brilliant team. My assistant designers, Paula
35:21
Placke, Danny Phelps, Allison Frazier, they really knocked it
35:28
out of the park. Allison's job on this mainly was
35:32
the infected and, and she did an incredible, absolutely
35:36
incredible job where Danny ran the LA office constantly sending
35:41
fabrics and whatever we needed up to Vancouver.
35:45
And then Paula was just in charge of everything and, and
35:49
making sure that the wheels never fell off the wagon.
35:55
And then, you know, the insanely talented Breakdown team led by
35:59
Ellie Robinson and Samantha Stroman.
36:02
And they did such a gorgeous job this season with the Breakdown.
36:09
Absolutely stunning work from every single person in that
36:13
Breakdown department. And then of course, my workroom
36:19
led by Q Nyan, who is my ride or die and I would be lost without
36:24
her. She did such an amazing job in
36:27
that workroom because the amount of stuff we built this season
36:32
was crazy. We made all of the parkas for
36:35
Ellie and Joel and Abby. Tommy's coat.
36:41
I would say most of Ellie's shirts are all custom made.
36:45
Her green coat for Seattle custom made.
36:49
And then there's the Seraphytes. All of that was that was
36:53
happening. That build was happening at the
36:55
same time we were doing Episode 2O2 with the Horde up in
37:01
Alberta. So yeah, we're a little busy.
37:03
That week, yeah. We're a little busy.
37:05
So I mean, I think we and just for two O 2 alone, we did close
37:11
to 600 fittings. So I am and so you rely on your
37:18
crew for, you know, their expertise and thank God every
37:25
single one of them brought their a game because a lot of them are
37:28
fans of the show too. So it was important to all of
37:32
them to, you know, do the best job that we all could and not
37:39
lose your sense of humor in the midst of it.
37:41
So that's one of the things I'll be forever grateful for is how
37:48
nobody ever really lost it. Everybody just, you know, kept
37:53
it together and had a really great sense of humor, even when
37:58
the Dolomite, which is the fake snow that they use in Jackson,
38:05
turned all of the costumes for the infected into paper mache
38:09
art projects, so. Right.
38:12
That's the coolest job ever. Well, yeah, thank you for
38:16
sharing out your crew. They all just did such an
38:18
incredible job. And I just, I wish I could call
38:21
them all and just tell them great job because you all killed
38:23
it. So if you're listening to this
38:24
podcast, you killed it. And I mean, I'd love to have
38:27
each and every one of you on the podcast at some point.
38:29
So hit me up. Well, and so last night's
38:32
episode ended with Abby. So I kind of loved how they did
38:35
that. So I want to end our interview
38:37
talking about Abby played by Caitlin Dever.
38:40
Obviously, she's playing such a large role in this season and
38:44
definitely we playing a large role in the next season.
38:46
So what can you tell us about your time so far working with
38:50
Abby and that this new and very dangerous character to the
38:54
story? Yeah, I love Abby, I always
38:59
have. And there's such a ferocity to
39:02
her. And I think one of the reasons I
39:04
do love Abby is because she is a mirror of Ellie.
39:09
And so they are almost the same person on very similar journeys.
39:16
And So what I tried to do is mirror their color palette to
39:21
show that. So that's why you see Abby in a
39:26
lot of Blues and that jacket specifically that we made for
39:30
her, which is also right out of the game, because I felt that
39:34
that was an iconic Abby piece that needed to be replicated.
39:41
But we sort of changed it up a little bit and made it our own
39:46
so that it was specific for Caitlin and for the show Abby,
39:53
not game Abby. But there are still similarities
39:56
there. But yeah, Caitlin is a force of
40:01
nature and what she brought to Abby, the season was such like
40:10
depth and anger and you could just feel it.
40:15
Coming off of her and so there's a bad ass quality to Abby that I
40:20
wanted to, you know, show with her costumes.
40:24
And, and again, it's all about playing, you know, with the
40:28
silhouettes to make sure that we were keeping her as I wanted to
40:35
play with the silhouettes just to make sure that we were
40:38
staying true to the spirit of who Abby is.
40:42
And it's just little things also playing with silhouette, like
40:46
the boots that she wears, they really lift her up and they make
40:51
her walk in a completely different way.
40:54
That's a lot heavier. And that sort of stuff, I think
40:59
really helps, Yeah. I I really appreciate that
41:01
because I mean, obviously there's been lots of
41:03
conversation about the physique of Abby, which I think is
41:06
ridiculous at. But so I love what you're able
41:09
to do if the costume because it just, it gave her such like a
41:11
prowess that like while it wasn't super complicated and did
41:15
mirror Abby, I'm like, Abby could definitely beat my ass and
41:19
probably beat your ass too. Like there's just something
41:21
about her where she just feels very strong in the way that she
41:24
presents herself in terms of her silhouettes.
41:26
So that that's what I got out of it and I really appreciate it.
41:30
Yeah. That's and that was what the
41:31
intention was to is. It's the strength of character,
41:34
not necessarily this crazy physicality that you see in game
41:40
Abby. But one of the reasons why I
41:44
love Craig and Neil's podcast so much that I listen to every week
41:48
is they talk about, you know, the difference between what the
41:51
needs of the game were and the needs of the show.
41:55
And they have a whole, there's a really great part in one of the
41:58
podcasts where they talk about that and the how they go about
42:03
creating character choices for the game and why they do it.
42:07
And then it made sense why? Why we have a different Abby in
42:12
the show And. And I can't imagine it being
42:16
anyone else but Caitlin. Yeah, Caitlin is sure.
42:20
Caitlin embodies Abby like nobody else I could I believe
42:24
could. She might have killed one of my
42:28
favorite TV characters, but I still am very much excited to
42:31
see what's coming up for Abby because I do think Caitlin Dever
42:35
is just killing it. And I'm just so fascinated by
42:37
this character. And and that brings us to the
42:40
end of talking about The Last of Us this time.
42:44
So looking back on the season now that we've seen the whole
42:46
thing, just what has this journey meant to you so far that
42:50
working on The Last of Us? It's been the honor of a
42:55
lifetime. I have moments where I can't
42:58
believe I get to be part of this show and get to be part of this
43:03
Last of Us family. And I just feel so lucky and
43:07
blessed that I got to help Craig and Neil bring Season 2 to life.
43:15
And, and I just hope that everybody else, the fans love
43:21
the show, the season, as much as we love making it because we
43:25
did. We all, every member of that
43:28
crew really believed in what we were doing.
43:32
And and I've never really seen a whole crew so excited about
43:39
bringing, you know, material to life as I did Season 2.
43:45
Yeah. It's, it's just so profound.
43:49
It's such a brilliant season. Congratulations and I really
43:53
loved every second. Of you I love the.
43:54
Costumes and I, I just, you all should be so proud.
43:58
So thank you for talking with me about The Last of Us, and I
44:01
thank you. For having me.
44:02
I'm looking forward to further conversations about The Last of
44:05
Us, as we actually have quite a few coming up.
44:07
Yes, we. Do we'll.
44:08
Talk about later. Sounds.
44:11
Good. Thank you so much, Ann.
44:13
Thank. You.