Latest / The Noble Dram / The Noble Dram | Get Down with Hochatown...Distilling: with Tommy McDaniel (Season 2 | Ep. 23)

Transcript

The Noble Dram | Get Down with Hochatown...Distilling: with Tommy McDaniel (Season 2 | Ep. 23) · The Noble Dram

• 0:00
  Gavin: Oh, Oklahoma.
• 0:02
  Aaron: Red dirt and bourbon smooth and slow.
• 0:06
  Gavin: Where corn's so sweet?
• 0:07
  Gavin: They don't need wheat.
• 0:09
  Aaron: That's how they pour it in Broken Bow.
• 0:12
  Gavin: Oh, Oklahoma.
• 0:14
  Aaron: Where a Stillwater man can set himself down,
• 0:18
  Gavin: have him a chat with a wild cat,
• 0:21
  Aaron: and enjoy them a dram from Hochatown.
• 0:25
  Gavin: You're doing fine.
• 0:27
  Gavin: Oklahoma.
• 0:29
  Aaron: Oklahoma.
• 0:30
  Aaron: Okay.
• 0:31
  Aaron: Welcome everybody to this week's episode of the Noble Dram.
• 1:07
  Aaron: Where Gavin and I get to do the inverse of an episode from a couple months back.
• 1:12
  Aaron: If you recall, we did an alma mater episode where I got to talk about how great it was to grow up in Kansas.
• 1:19
  Aaron: And this month we have to sit through Gavin talking how wonderful Oklahoma is.
• 1:25
  Gavin: Have to.
• 1:26
  Aaron: But there is a silver lining.
• 1:29
  Gavin: What's that?
• 1:30
  Aaron: Because I don't have to do it alone.
• 1:31
  Aaron: We have a special guest with us tonight.
• 1:34
  Aaron: Mr.
• 1:35
  Aaron: Tommy McDaniel.
• 1:36
  Aaron: Should we call you Blue?
• 1:39
  Aaron: Or is Tommy okay?
• 1:41
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You can call me whatever you want, just don't call me late for something to drink.
• 1:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: There we go.
• 1:48
  Gavin: That's something to live by.
• 1:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Tommy's my name.
• 1:51
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Blue, it's what everybody calls me, so uh that's what I go by.
• 1:55
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Blue.
• 1:56
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It doesn't change with your shirt color.
• 1:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: No, I'll wear that shirt to match my name.
• 2:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But you know, I I mean I've been a lot of years in in the corporate world and all that, and I'm back home and and everybody here knows me as blue, and and uh that that's just fine with me.
• 2:10
  Aaron: Well, I'll tell them why we have Mr.
• 2:15
  Gavin: Blue.
• 2:15
  Gavin: Well, because there's in the great state of Oklahoma, there's this this wonderful university called Oklahoma State University.
• 2:28
  Gavin: Home of Pistol Pete and the Cowboys, Go Pokes.
• 2:33
  Gavin: Right?
• 2:34
  Gavin: It's thick already, people.
• 2:36
  Gavin: It's thick already.
• 2:37
  Gavin: And it's all night long, baby.
• 2:39
  Gavin: All night long.
• 2:40
  Gavin: So uh yeah, so we we did uh Kansas State uh episode for Aaron uh back in uh what was that uh May?
• 2:50
  Gavin: I think May May June is May June somewhere in that range.
• 2:53
  Aaron: Where when people were graduating, yes, and now that people are taking that last year over again, we're covering Oklahoma stuff.
• 3:00
  Aaron: They drink a little too much whiskey the semester before, and maybe have to do a retake.
• 3:04
  Aaron: You know what they need.
• 3:05
  Aaron: Those boys from Oklahoma need a homemade whiskey to wet their palate.
• 3:12
  Aaron: Boys from Oklahoma.
• 3:14
  Aaron: I think I think this is where Tommy comes in.
• 3:16
  Aaron: Yeah.
• 3:16
  Aaron: So for those who don't know, I I like I'll be honest, I like Mr.
• 3:22
  Aaron: Blue.
• 3:22
  Aaron: It reminds me a little bit of a Quentin Tarantino movie.
• 3:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Now it now it's just it's blue, not Mr.
• 3:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Blue, it's just blue.
• 3:29
  Aaron: I know, but you seem so you seem so formal.
• 3:31
  Aaron: You seem so Mr.
• 3:32
  Aaron: Like.
• 3:33
  Aaron: All right, all right.
• 3:34
  Aaron: So Blue, I you are with not just with, you are Ho chatown distilling.
• 3:43
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's what I hear.
• 3:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, yes.
• 3:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean for the for the moment, yeah.
• 3:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I have that's what I well that's a that's a role I will have to wear.
• 3:49
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yes.
• 3:49
  Gavin: I get to wear, I should say.
• 3:50
  Gavin: Proudly, proudly wear.
• 3:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We're carrying on the traditions, you know, that we started and and and keep keep moving.
• 3:59
  Aaron: Well, let's talk a little bit about how it started.
• 4:02
  Aaron: Back in 2015, if my memory's correct.
• 4:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: 2015, in January 2015, there's four of us.
• 4:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We owners.
• 4:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh my brother Mitch McDaniel, my brother Mark McDaniel, and Nathan Jewell.
• 4:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh Mitch took the lead on it, and uh and and and along with me, you know, it was uh, you know, Mitch had had was a chemist and it's been uh 30 years chemistry, and we never would have thought we'd come back home, and let alone make bourbon together.
• 4:36
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and I was doing the property management and corporate world and kind of getting out of that with a goal of starting a distillery, and just things happened with Mitch's company getting bought out and all that.
• 4:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We both wound up here in 15 working together to build a bourbon.
• 4:52
  Gavin: Nice.
• 4:52
  Gavin: So what what drew you to Hochatown?
• 4:59
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, this is this is area in southeast Oklahoma, McCurtain County, uh far southeast Oklahoma.
• 5:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: This is this is where I'm from.
• 5:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: My family's from.
• 5:08
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, I I go back to uh right right at right at statehood.
• 5:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: My family settled this area north up in the mountains, about 25 miles up in the mountains.
• 5:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and you know, McCurtain County, if you're not familiar with it, is is wooded hills where mountains from the Washitas, the Kaimichi Range.
• 5:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's nothing like the rest of Oklahoma.
• 5:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh it's its own little place right here, and right here in Hoch atown where we're at.
• 5:30
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh pine trees are everywhere, and it takes a lot of water.
• 5:34
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We're actually the wettest place in the state of Oklahoma right here.
• 5:36
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: If you look on the on the meeting's indexes and all, the amount of average rainfall per year is about a 20-mile circle right around Hochatown distilling.
• 5:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And that'll be important later on when we talk.
• 5:47
  Gavin: No dry campus for Hochatown, right?
• 5:49
  Gavin: No, we have plenty of.
• 5:50
  Gavin: It's the wettest county, right?
• 5:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Wet wet wettest, wettest county when it comes to rainfall, yes.
• 5:55
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And it's still one of the wettest counties when it comes to liquor, you know.
• 5:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We have good, good, good county laws.
• 6:01
  Aaron: I'll I'll say my my exploration of the great state of Oklahoma is pretty limited.
• 6:06
  Aaron: We drive through to get to Kansas.
• 6:08
  Aaron: But more than what more than once I've driven through the area, and I will say uh the far eastern edge of Oklahoma, specifically the southern part where you guys are, is a completely different countryside from what you typically picture.
• 6:25
  Aaron: If you went and saw the musical, then they're not talking about the hills, they're talking about the plains, and it's a different part.
• 6:32
  Aaron: Uh completely absolutely beautiful countryside up there.
• 6:36
  Aaron: Yeah.
• 6:36
  Aaron: I understand why one would want to come home to there.
• 6:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah.
• 6:39
  Gavin: And isn't it Beaver Bend?
• 6:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We have right next to us here.
• 6:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh well, Broken Mow is what everyone's familiar with.
• 6:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Hochatown was a town that was on the Mountain Fork River.
• 6:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And in the 30s, the Beavers Bend State Park was built.
• 6:56
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And interesting enough, it the same architects that built Yellowstone built uh Beavers Bend State Park.
• 7:01
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And if you're in both places, you can look at certain abutments and stuff on bridges, and yeah, it was very similar.
• 7:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh but Beavers Bend was here and it was a very popular park for from when it was built.
• 7:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then in the 60s, uh they started planning and and and putting in Broken Bow Lake, and it was impounded in the 60s.
• 7:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And at that time, it Hochatown was impounded by the lake.
• 7:25
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And Ho Chit Town's covered up under the lake, and they moved the church and they moved the graveyard out here to the side of highway US 259, and there was a KOA campground, and this place from just kind of smoldered for 30, 40 years, you know, until tourism took over.
• 7:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then tourism here uh is a is a is a is a is a is a very large industry.
• 7:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's one of the fastest growing tourism places in the United States, and we're benefiting primarily from the all of the population increases that North Texas is having in East Texas, and just people moving into the region where unique in the mountains and all that we have, and beautiful scenery.
• 8:03
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And people love coming here.
• 8:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's just got a good vibe and a good feel.
• 8:07
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's a little mountain country town, but man, there's there's there's there's uh four wineries, two breweries, and a distillery right here in town, and then about 25 other places to get to grab to grab a drink somewhere and eat some food.
• 8:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So there's a lot to there's a lot to do here.
• 8:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And it's not chains or anything either.
• 8:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's just a good good place to be.
• 8:27
  Aaron: Sounds sounds like uh an all-night diner would be a good uh business option in Hochatown with that many distilleries and wineries and brews.
• 8:35
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We got one, I think, that opens up, but they have to deal with all the drunks.
• 8:38
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And now that the casino opened up up here, they got it all in the world.
• 8:41
  Gavin: We have to deal with everyone at your establishment, right?
• 8:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I like shutting the doors early around here, you know.
• 8:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I'm gonna avoid all the drugs.
• 8:50
  Aaron: So give us just a little bit more of the history of kind of how you guys got from 2015.
• 8:56
  Aaron: You guys what first started barreling in 2016?
• 9:02
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, yeah, I can tell you, we we formed in early January 2015.
• 9:07
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We barreled our first barrel of bourbon in barrel number one in uh September of 16.
• 9:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then from September 16 until we've released our first product, which was a two and a half-year-old small batch.
• 9:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh but we wanted to get something out, and uh uh it that came out in May of 19, and uh we we never sold anything between those times.
• 9:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We just made bourbon.
• 9:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh so one of the things about us is that you know, our core line of bourbon, you know, we've never we've it's our bourbon, it's our juice.
• 9:56
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And it's it's the grain mash bill that we use, you know, we're 80% corn, 10% malted barley, and 10% rye.
• 10:03
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we use we use uh uh uh an Oklahoma uh mill to mill our Oklahoma-based mill to mill our corn.
• 10:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then the barley and the rye we do buy and bring in because we're looking for some very specific flavor profiles that we get out of, especially our rye grain and and and this and the suppliers are just solid, and you know that you're gonna be getting that product from you know now forward, you know.
• 10:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh which we're adding a lot of the flavoring components when you're drinking, you know, in the bourbon as you're aging it.
• 10:35
  Aaron: So your your first bottle hit shelves in 2019?
• 10:40
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: May of 2019.
• 10:42
  Aaron: Okay.
• 10:42
  Aaron: And is is barrel number one still aging or is it been No, no, no.
• 10:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Barrel number one has been bottled.
• 10:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It is the bottles are here.
• 10:49
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We've never sold any.
• 10:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh I've given them away as gifts for charities and different things, and but I still have them set back.
• 10:56
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And barrel, the actual barrel itself sits in our gift shop here.
• 11:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's in a finished state where I've got a uh a kind of a display set up high of different.
• 11:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I've collected some old stills from the area and and and have them in there.
• 11:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I've got a pretty good little nice little display area in our still.
• 11:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, one of one of these days maybe I'll have enough stuff gathered up for a moonshiners museum.
• 11:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You never know.
• 11:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Our area is rich and steep in the history of moonshining, by the way.
• 11:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yep.
• 11:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh we're known for moonshiners.
• 11:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We were federal agents claimed Hochatown is the moonshine capital of Oklahoma during Prohibition.
• 11:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh claim made that claim in Muskogee.
• 11:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So we still hold that title.
• 11:35
  Aaron: A badge of honor, I would imagine.
• 11:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oh, but uh hey, moon uh uh liquor making is old as the hills around here.
• 11:41
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They've been making liquor, you know.
• 11:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oklahoma has got some laws because it was a territory and it was uh prohibition put in place and then part of statehood, you know, to come into the union.
• 11:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh Oklahoma had to guarantee to make uh prohibition part of the Constitution for 21 years.
• 11:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then Oklahoma, uh uh Prohibition was not removed from the Oklahoma Constitution until 1959 by a vote of the people.
• 12:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: All right, that was after two or three attempts.
• 12:08
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So, and then by then when they did that, uh, you know, Oklahoma was already in prohibition before prohibition hit the United States.
• 12:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: In Southeast Oklahoma, especially, they already had the bootleg system set up.
• 12:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So when the whole country went into prohibition, those guys uh they just started shipping everything to Hot Springs and sending it north, and this area flourished during prohibition because the systems and the infrastructure was already set up in place for making uh moonshine illegal boots.
• 12:35
  Aaron: You guys were ahead of the curve, so to speak.
• 12:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh they were very good at it, you know, and then after prohibition it died down.
• 12:41
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But you know, Hochatown Distilling is the first illegal distillery uh formed in the uh in the uh area of Oklahoma, formerly known as the Indian Country.
• 12:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So that's gonna go all the way north up through Tulsa, the eastern half of the state, and some of the southern part of the state.
• 12:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we barreled the first bottle of bourbon and produced that.
• 13:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So yeah, we're kind of late to the bourbon game on a national scale, but you know what?
• 13:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We're we were early to the bourbon game for Oklahoma.
• 13:07
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh when we started in 15, you could not even sample someone at your premises, let alone sell a bottle to them or something, you know.
• 13:19
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh we changed all that.
• 13:22
  Gavin: Well, Tommy, I I have to say I have a bone to pick with you a little bit.
• 13:26
  Aaron: Oh because I was gonna say something nice, Tommy, but but Gavin, he's he's a rough copy.
• 13:33
  Gavin: You know, I I come from Oklahoma, you know, it's what happens.
• 13:36
  Gavin: Um you get two okies a talking and things start happening.
• 13:40
  Gavin: Um so I I I knew a bit about the lack of legalized distilleries in Oklahoma.
• 13:48
  Gavin: Um and I didn't start my whiskey adventures until really and truly till after college.
• 13:56
  Gavin: And um I I enjoyed some whiskey, but I really didn't understand it and get into it quite so much.
• 14:02
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: When you were working and could afford it.
• 14:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yes, I was ahead of that curve.
• 14:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah.
• 14:06
  Gavin: We were drinking whiskey in college.
• 14:08
  Gavin: I mean, we were drinking some whiskey, but we weren't drinking about uh the good the good stuff, right?
• 14:15
  Aaron: It it was quantity over quality for sure.
• 14:19
  Aaron: For sure at that age.
• 14:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh well I started on Canadian blended and cokes and Mountain Dews, you know.
• 14:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So here we are, you know.
• 14:26
  Gavin: That's what happens.
• 14:27
  Gavin: Yeah.
• 14:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I actually have a process and a journey that I can predict someone's path on their bourbon journey.
• 14:34
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I walk that down path myself, you know.
• 14:37
  Gavin: So um but the the story that I tell is uh so I lived in Scotland for a bit uh with my wife back in uh 2012 and 2013, and that's really where I started venturing into distilleries and understanding the craft and really nerding out uh with whiskey and the hobby.
• 15:00
  Gavin: We landed at the airport in Tulsa.
• 15:04
  Gavin: Um the first thing we did is we went to Brahms and got a burger and shake, because obviously you don't have that in Scotland.
• 15:10
  Gavin: Oh, yeah.
• 15:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That Brahms bean burger is pretty good and it's shake.
• 15:14
  Aaron: It's the only thing wrong with Scotland that I can find.
• 15:16
  Aaron: Is there's no Brahms, right?
• 15:19
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's tough when you even once you get out of Oklahoma, there's not many Brahms.
• 15:23
  Gavin: Yeah.
• 15:23
  Gavin: That's right.
• 15:24
  Gavin: So we're sitting there, we're sitting there eating our Brahms burger, drinking our shake, and I look at my wife and I'm like, I want to open Oklahoma's first legalized distillery in the Stillwater Perkins area.
• 15:38
  Aaron: What year was this?
• 15:39
  Gavin: Uh that would have been in 2013.
• 15:41
  Gavin: Okay.
• 15:41
  Gavin: All right.
• 15:42
  Gavin: Yeah, I think.
• 15:42
  Gavin: That's why I said we have a bone to pick.
• 15:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, hey, yeah, uh Wonderfolk was the first was the second one, but the first one, and they formed in 13.
• 15:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But they formed under a different name, so they've changed ownerships.
• 15:55
  Gavin: So do you remember what that name was?
• 15:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: If you weren't asking me, I could.
• 15:59
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Before Wonderfolk, it was uh all right.
• 16:03
  Aaron: Tommy, that makes two of us because I have no idea what the name is.
• 16:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I'll think of it sometime in this podcast and I'll blurt it out.
• 16:09
  Aaron: He's gonna he's gonna gloat.
• 16:10
  Aaron: He knows.
• 16:11
  Aaron: I can guarantee it.
• 16:12
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, if I wasn't trying to think, I I I talked to the owners of it.
• 16:17
  Gavin: Uh but I think we we may have a a common friend uh who uh owned um um Oklahoma Distilling.
• 16:28
  Gavin: Was it Oklahoma?
• 16:30
  Gavin: Hunter Hunter Gamble.
• 16:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, Hunter Gamble, yeah.
• 16:33
  Gavin: Yeah.
• 16:33
  Gavin: So I know Hunter very well.
• 16:35
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So Hunter and I have talked on the phone.
• 16:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oklahoma Distilling, that was it, wasn't it?
• 16:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh Oklahoma was it Oklahoma Distilling?
• 16:42
  Gavin: I I believe so.
• 16:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I believe that's I spoke with Hunter a time or two just early on, and uh, you know, they were they were they were marching forward doing their thing, and and uh and and that's good.
• 16:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh, you know, we were we were kind of marching forward doing our thing.
• 16:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It was it was good, you know.
• 16:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: One thing I'll say about Oklahoma Distillers is that we all get along really good with each other, you know.
• 17:03
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and I mean, I hey if one of them calls me, I I make a point to talk, he'll, you know, I'll give the I'm an open book, they are too, we're all that way with each other.
• 17:14
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So our Oklahoma Distillers are you know pretty good.
• 17:17
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You get in the wine people and you get over into beer people, that can you can that can be a different story.
• 17:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But the distillers, we're a guild and and and we're a brotherhood.
• 17:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and because we're just I mean, the laws have been so restrictive and all on us that there's never really been anything but just people there's a few of us that are doing doing doing some work out here.
• 17:38
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But those guys have done a good job, you know.
• 17:40
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh uh uh serving serving uh I mean they formed it, you know.
• 17:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh uh good deal.
• 17:49
  Aaron: So we said we were gonna spend a couple minutes talking a little bit about Hochatown, the area, Hochat own, the distilling company, while we enjoyed uh splash of the small batch select bourbon.
• 18:02
  Aaron: Yes.
• 18:03
  Aaron: I have now finished my glass.
• 18:05
  Aaron: It's time that we move on to something else.
• 18:07
  Aaron: But I do I do want to say, I do want to say, this is not a formal tasting.
• 18:14
  Aaron: This is not one of the the bottles for the episode.
• 18:16
  Aaron: We have two more that are coming.
• 18:17
  Aaron: But um it's quite tasty.
• 18:19
  Aaron: Quite tasty.
• 18:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Hey, I I'm gonna, and you're gonna I'm gonna brag on this for a second because that bourbon you were tasted was made out of three-year-aged bourbon.
• 18:32
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Anywhere from three years to three years and nine months of adding of those barrels and used to make that blend.
• 18:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That says a tremendous amount, I think, to the ability of pot stilling, doing your cuts by hand, and and knowing your craft and knowing your climate, knowing your environment, you you can get a product that tastes like that in that short of time.
• 18:55
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Now we're aging on and we're maybe we're gonna drink some ones that are older as you've gotten.
• 19:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But it's actually pretty amazing what I think we get out of that.
• 19:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That was named uh Vine Perry called that the if you come to Oklahoma and you buy a bourbon, look for look for that brother right there, uh Small Batch Select.
• 19:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's oh that was the one they said to buy, and that's our number one seller here at the distillery.
• 19:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh it's a 104-proof, it's awesome for old fashions.
• 19:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's what we make our old fashions of.
• 19:25
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That is Oklahoma's old-fashioned right there.
• 19:29
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh, it is a just and and and the thing about them is you know, they're all distilled agent bottled right here on site by us.
• 19:35
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Every bit of it.
• 19:37
  Gavin: I love that, and you can tell we've enjoyed it a bit.
• 19:42
  Aaron: Considering we received the bottle two days ago.
• 19:46
  Aaron: We've really been working on this one.
• 19:49
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Hey, that's why I sent them little ones too, so you can take them and enjoy them with you.
• 19:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, the little 200 ml half pints.
• 19:55
  Aaron: Uh they they they struck me as like uh lunchbox bottles.
• 19:59
  Aaron: Oh, which is probably not the what what my office wants to hear.
• 20:02
  Aaron: No, your office is okay with it.
• 20:04
  Aaron: Trust me.
• 20:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I know your office is like, one of the podcasters that I do every January with, they uh they they took some of those and went to one of you know how they all gather up at the liquor stores, you know, and and for the opening and the release and all that.
• 20:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And they took them with bottles and started handing them out in the in the crowd and everything.
• 20:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and and then they were like, where the hell did you get this?
• 20:25
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know.
• 20:26
  Aaron: So uh I I love the concept.
• 20:30
  Aaron: Uh we'll talk a little bit about gift shop purchasing and stuff like that, the distiller here in a minute.
• 20:35
  Aaron: But yeah.
• 20:35
  Aaron: Okay, so we should go to bottle number one.
• 20:40
  Aaron: Official bottle number one, right?
• 20:42
  Aaron: Um, which is Gavin's.
• 20:45
  Aaron: It's the it's not my yeah, it's me.
• 20:47
  Gavin: I'm I got one more little sip here.
• 20:48
  Gavin: Uh hustle, Gavin.
• 20:50
  Gavin: He gets to talk and stops drinking.
• 20:52
  Gavin: That's it.
• 20:52
  Gavin: All right.
• 20:53
  Gavin: Bottle number one.
• 20:55
  Gavin: Are you ready, Blue?
• 20:57
  Gavin: I'm ready.
• 20:58
  Aaron: The little bottles.
• 20:59
  Gavin: All right.
• 20:59
  Gavin: This is the little bottles.
• 21:00
  Gavin: This is the bottle in bond.
• 21:03
  Gavin: Oh, yeah, that's a good one right there.
• 21:05
  Gavin: Yeah, I'm gonna try to do this where you can see the label.
• 21:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I can tell you guys the the bottle in bond uh is a uh that's a real special bourbon because uh oh my gosh.
• 21:19
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's just for us.
• 21:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's Oklahoma's first bottle in bond bourbon.
• 21:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: God.
• 21:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we get a question all the time what's bottle in bond mean?
• 21:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: All right.
• 21:29
  Aaron: Yeah.
• 21:30
  Aaron: We we actually, when we first started the show, Gavin spilled all over the place.
• 21:39
  Aaron: He's gonna get a bandana out and clean up.
• 21:42
  Aaron: Oh man.
• 21:43
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: He's a he's abusing he's abusing bourbon.
• 21:46
  Aaron: Gavin's is this is this is my rule.
• 21:49
  Aaron: Gavin's rule is that anything that gets spilled becomes cologne.
• 21:52
  Aaron: Oh.
• 21:53
  Aaron: And right now, Gavin could disinfect most of his body for surgery with the amount he poured on the table.
• 21:59
  Aaron: We absolutely agree with you on the question of what is bottled and bond.
• 22:07
  Aaron: So I think we were four episodes into the show before we said we need to clarify a handful of the terms that show up on labels.
• 22:15
  Aaron: And bottled and bond is one of them that often comes up as a people didn't really understand what it was.
• 22:22
  Aaron: Um and ultimately it was a benchmark for what makes a trustworthy bourbon way back in the day.
• 22:35
  Aaron: Right.
• 22:35
  Aaron: Not to suggest that anything that's not bottled in bond is untrustworthy now, but that was the premise.
• 22:41
  Aaron: Um and the really fun part for us now is when you sit down with a bottleneck and bond, you know about its aging, you know about its proof.
• 22:52
  Aaron: It's very easy to sit multiple bottles and bottle in bonds, bottles in bond.
• 23:00
  Aaron: I don't know what the right way to pluralize that is.
• 23:02
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But if you're gonna sit Well, bottled in bond is the is the is the act name.
• 23:07
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So it would be bottled in bonds, bottled in bond bonds.
• 23:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, so you can sit down.
• 23:16
  Aaron: You can sit down with multiple bottles and understand that the the difference in proof is taken out in those various releases.
• 23:25
  Aaron: Aging is very similar in those releases.
• 23:27
  Aaron: Like it gives you a benchmark to say this is as close to a apples to apples kind of comparison I can get from place to place, which is always a fun way to taste stuff.
• 23:37
  Aaron: So yeah.
• 23:38
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, you know, I will say first, thank you for the reason.
• 23:40
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's one of the reasons why we never, in that two and a half year wait, never sourced or anything.
• 23:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And I understand people are doing it, getting cash flow, but uh we never source because we want our bourbon to be our flavor, our profile.
• 23:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: What when you taste our bourbon in Hochatown Distilling, and you're getting that, you're getting those grains that we use, you're getting our climate, you're getting the barrels that we pick, the regions and specific regions of where these barrels come from, and and then the aging process and the cut.
• 24:07
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You're getting our craft right there.
• 24:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and and is it, you know, you're not getting someone else's craft, you're getting our craft and developing a palette for our craft.
• 24:18
  Gavin: So Tommy, can you can you talk to us a bit about uh I mean we we talked a bit about the the history of Hochatown, the town and the area and Broken Bow, and we talked a little bit about how the distillery got started, but I I I want to dive in just a little bit of uh because it always intrigues me how people start something like this, right?
• 24:44
  Gavin: Like you you had an entire career, your brothers had in in careers, all you know, uh what is it is it Nathan?
• 24:51
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Is that the no Mitch and Mark and Nathan and Nathan had a back?
• 24:55
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, Nathan's a a good friend of ours.
• 24:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's uh it's about he we we own business and stuff together.
• 25:02
  Gavin: So how did you how did you come from all of four of you kind of having separate careers and then venturing into this adventure together into whiskey?
• 25:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean you know uh my own, yeah.
• 25:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Go on.
• 25:22
  Aaron: Um I'm gonna warn you, Gavin's already let it slip that he wants to start a distillery, so he may be taking notes.
• 25:29
  Aaron: Come on, brother, give away any traits.
• 25:32
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I'll teach you how to distill.
• 25:33
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We'll teach you, I'll let you work with our guys.
• 25:34
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I come on.
• 25:38
  Aaron: I'm sure I'm serious.
• 25:38
  Aaron: Come on.
• 25:39
  Aaron: I'm far I'm far better at the sales side at the bottle end of the business than probably the the grain going into the hopper at the time.
• 25:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: See, now we just need where you where are you gonna go?
• 25:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Still water?
• 25:52
  Gavin: Well, so I actually have a uh I'm part owner of a family farm uh in Perkins.
• 25:56
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oh yeah.
• 25:58
  Gavin: So we've got a hundred acres uh between Stillwater and Perkins, natural spring fed, waterfall, the whole thing.
• 26:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You should do it.
• 26:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean, you should do it.
• 26:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And there's some not in five.
• 26:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: There's some things now.
• 26:12
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean, that I if I were doing it in your shoes, I'll I ain't gonna tell you, you know, everybody wants to give you advice, but at least I've walked that trail myself and where I see the market and where the opportunities are in the market and how to kind of tailor and gear what you're doing, I yeah, I'd love to have that conversation someday with you.
• 26:28
  Aaron: Well, I'll teach you how to make hand sanitizer.
• 26:30
  Aaron: I I will tell you that I will tell you this.
• 26:33
  Gavin: Um, when when we were sitting there eating our Brahms burger and our chocolate shakes, and I was telling my wife, hey, I want to open up the distillery, she looked at me and she goes, Where are you gonna find that money?
• 26:44
  Gavin: Like she's she's a engineer and and thinks about it.
• 26:48
  Gavin: That's what you got her for.
• 26:49
  Gavin: Yeah.
• 26:50
  Gavin: Come on.
• 26:50
  Gavin: I just I need I need a an engineer chemic, you know, in the chemistry world to talk to an industrial engineer.
• 27:00
  Gavin: And sweet talk her.
• 27:02
  Aaron: It sounds like you need a better salesman to talk around that.
• 27:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So you're your wife, your wife's an industrial engineer?
• 27:08
  Aaron: Yes, yes.
• 27:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh and she graduated from OSU?
• 27:12
  Gavin: Yes, yes, sir.
• 27:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Okay, all right.
• 27:14
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Awesome.
• 27:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, uh yeah, engineers can talk with each other on a on a home.
• 27:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Mitch is a chemist and myself.
• 27:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We've we'd have so many conversations on a low on on the on levels about bourbon, and and and you know, we would sit we'd ever at four o'clock every day we'd meet for a drink together.
• 27:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we were both working here and all that, you know.
• 27:33
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh we uh we took we had almost a year and a half of process to get our plan for what our mash bill is gonna be.
• 27:43
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Because we started with this, we we were gonna make bourbon whiskey.
• 27:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then as we start learning and really getting into it and working with it, and it's like you never really understand anything until you work with it with your hands and make it and produce it, and and we just learned our way through it.
• 27:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, we had an old saying that we always talked about, you know, uh uh just just just just uh just work behind your learning curve.
• 28:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Don't get out in front of your learning curve.
• 28:08
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And you can't learn all this at once and and stay behind your learning curve because if you make a mistake with beer, you know, it's a two-month, three-month setback.
• 28:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You make wine, okay, maybe a six-month setback.
• 28:19
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You make a mistake with whiskey, it's a five-year setback.
• 28:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Or three, and by then you've got so much put up.
• 28:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: If it's not good, then it's a struggle because you're trying to launch a brand.
• 28:30
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So there's a lot of risk on the front end, especially for some people that didn't know how to had never done it before.
• 28:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and and it just it just everything just happened.
• 28:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I don't I can't even explain it myself.
• 28:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It just happened.
• 28:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And here, you know, uh it it I'm very pleasantly surprised with where it's gone.
• 28:51
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we always have the confidence, but until you get the validation that what we think, and and and and we're small still, you know, uh, we're scaling, but we're small.
• 29:02
  Aaron: I I do want to talk a little bit about size, but I have a like you mentioned moonshining in the territory or in the area.
• 29:10
  Aaron: Yep.
• 29:11
  Aaron: Were any of you dabblers in moonshine before you started the distillery, or did you just say, nope, let's go for the big time right out of the gates?
• 29:19
  Aaron: We drank it.
• 29:20
  Aaron: Haven't we all?
• 29:22
  Aaron: Yes.
• 29:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh consumer side of the moon.
• 29:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh Taylor had a family that had done it, but no, we didn't the the the engineering and the and all that was see it's interesting.
• 29:33
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You can't make you can't, unless you go work for a distillery, you can't uh you can't practice making whiskey because it's you know the home distiller can't do it.
• 29:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So we couldn't practice because we were going through a licensing process, and the last thing we want to do is get busted for making whiskey.
• 29:53
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So we had to have our still before we could start actually making the the whiskey and distill it.
• 30:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And so you know, and Mitch is he was a stickler, and and it's just that was that was the process that it had to occur, you know, to be legal.
• 30:14
  Aaron: From a business standpoint, how rough are those first probably not just three years, probably first four or five years where you've you spent all this time getting it produced and now you're just waiting for it to be sellable.
• 30:31
  Aaron: And then when it does, like it's got to sell because you've got years worth of expense and zero dollars of income.
• 30:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, uh we had other jobs, meaning, you know, tourism and a property management company.
• 30:51
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, I I left corporate America.
• 30:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I built cabins until I got enough built so I could leave corporate America to start a property management company so I could so I could build that property management company and then take that and build a distillery.
• 31:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So this area was real heavy and pop growing, you know, in 20% every year, year over year for 12, 15 years in in tourism up until COVID, and then it doubled, and you know, it's a level down, but our tourism growth has been phenomenal here.
• 31:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So we were we were just taking part of that, you know, with the proper building properties, selling properties.
• 31:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh my brother Mark was developing land and some of the land development.
• 31:32
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh for us really it was what we looked at between the partners as a a uh savings, a savings plan, you know, it just setting money up, savings.
• 31:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And I don't know how I somewhere in the middle of that I managed to put a couple boys through school and survive on the other side.
• 31:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and uh, but like I said, it we were growing and everything was good and and and and and uh it helped a lot, tremendous amount, so to be able to chase his dream, you know.
• 32:04
  Gavin: So uh in those first five years or so, was there a barrel that just was the one that got away that you're like, man, we were just really hoping that that was gonna turn out, and it didn't.
• 32:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: No, we've never called a barrel, you know.
• 32:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we we when we get ready to do uh uh a vatting or to get our get our g get our you know bourbon sorted out and all we'll do a tasting on them.
• 32:35
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We're tasting for single barrels.
• 32:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And if it's you know it may need a little more time, but our mash bill, our technique, our process has not changed since day one.
• 32:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh it's been I'm I'm uh I'm a stickler for consistency in that.
• 32:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Using the same grain, using the same, everything.
• 32:53
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We don't change anything.
• 32:55
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh and and a stickler to that process, and it's still gonna it's gonna help you to get a get a good product that uh doesn't have a lot of flavor profile creep.
• 33:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, if you notice anything about any flavor profile creep in ours, is because you know we're slowly aging out, and you start seeing the single barrels out in front of some of them, and and and and you know, we're we're gonna be having some special releases that are coming out, you know, of some seven and eight-year bourbons and stuff.
• 33:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And there won't be a lot of them, but there'll be some as they start coming through, we'll start doing some pretty cool stuff with them and getting them to where people can drink them and try them, and we can and just slowly age up through that process.
• 33:33
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But uh, you know, bottling bond, you said earlier for us was a was a real milestone for Mitch and I during the process because you know we talked about milestone moments along the way, and you know, uh getting your license, getting your first, getting your steel arrived, you know, getting getting your first drippings off, you know, barreling the first barrel.
• 33:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and we talked about many of those, bottling your first bottle, selling your first bottle, all those milestones.
• 33:59
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But for us and for Mitch and I, for us to be able to produce a bottled in bond bourbon, that meant made to the standard of the bottle in bond.
• 34:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It had, you know, you have to have your distilled spirits plant number on the on the bottle.
• 34:10
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Every bottle has your DSP number, and that's the only label that requires your DSP to be on there.
• 34:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's why, and one of the reasons for us in the in the in the age of the of the of the of the production statement on a bottle, uh, you know, to have that have that D look on the back of it.
• 34:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You're looking there.
• 34:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Look for have that DSP number on there.
• 34:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That that that someone can't source suburban and release a bottle in bond.
• 34:36
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It has to be made by that distillery and aged at that distillery and all and meet all those standards.
• 34:41
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And for Mitch and I, that was when we really talked about the moment that we would feel like, you know what, we we have at least arrived to a point to where we can legitimately say that that we're a distillery, we're and we're a legitimate distillery, and and we're making bottle and bond bourbon, you know, repeatable.
• 34:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We've got quantities to sell, you know.
• 35:01
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So that was a huge milestone moment for us.
• 35:04
  Gavin: Well, and we've we've talked about it a bit on the show.
• 35:06
  Gavin: When you walk into a distillery, or not into a distillery, but and when you walk into a bottle shop or a liquor store and you have options of a bottle and bond or a normal release, a lot of times I go to the bottle and bond because you know that there is legitimacy, that there is a government uh standard behind the bottom.
• 35:29
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Absolutely, the government standard.
• 35:30
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And back in the old days, before that bottle and bond act of 1897, you know, by the time it made there was no three-tier system in place.
• 35:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So, you know, the whiskey was adulterated all along the way.
• 35:40
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean, people were cutting it, adding tobacco juice to it, you know, they were putting prune, they were cutting it to make more profit along the way.
• 35:47
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And so by the time it got to the consumer, you know, well, what were you drinking?
• 35:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, and and and that's what Colonel Taylor wanted to do is make sure that that juice that they were making was getting to the customers.
• 35:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And you know, that's that's that that that predates just by a few years, all of our food safety labeling laws, our food and drug administration, and you know, so uh once again it's shown throughout American history that that whiskey, American whiskey in the course of uh of our nation always leads the way in change.
• 36:17
  Aaron: That's right.
• 36:17
  Aaron: I could not have put it more eloquently than that.
• 36:21
  Aaron: All right.
• 36:22
  Aaron: So I have I have one kind of anecdotal thing that popped into my head as you were telling the story.
• 36:28
  Gavin: Uh here we go.
• 36:30
  Aaron: You were talking about all these wonderful moments in your life, um, or wonderful moments in the distillery's life, maybe would be a better way to put it.
• 36:37
  Aaron: And it it reminded me of a funny anecdote that actually ties to another distillery we've had on the show.
• 36:45
  Aaron: So tell the audience when your stills showed up, what else was on the truck?
• 36:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: There was a still on that truck to be delivered next from uh from Boot Hill Distillery in uh Dodge City, Kansas.
• 37:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah.
• 37:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They had a 500-gallon steel, and I was like, we had a 250-gallon steel, and I was like, man, but but you know, feeding the I'm glad we didn't get the 500-gallon steel because it was expensive to feed that 250-gallon steel, right?
• 37:19
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And you know, but you gotta keep them running to keep staff and all that, you know.
• 37:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh that that that but they had a 500-gallon still on there, and I've followed their story ever since.
• 37:31
  Aaron: What a funny twist that the uh the distillery we happen to pick, the Spotlight Kansas happens to have their distill, their still delivered on the same truck as our as our selective road goal.
• 37:43
  Gavin: And we didn't plan that whatsoever.
• 37:44
  Aaron: No, we know we literally didn't learn this until like two days ago.
• 37:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah.
• 37:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's one of them live circle moments.
• 37:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: This one it's coming back around on you, you know, live circling back around on you.
• 37:55
  Gavin: I'm gonna just put it out there now.
• 37:58
  Gavin: Oh, geez, that we're gonna get Boot Hill and Hocha town and the Noble Dram together.
• 38:04
  Gavin: Oh, that'd be like let's have some pores.
• 38:06
  Gavin: Yeah.
• 38:06
  Gavin: Those guys knew it with me.
• 38:07
  Gavin: They probably never heard.
• 38:08
  Gavin: Let's do it in Stillwater.
• 38:10
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And Stillwater's awesome.
• 38:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and and you gotta realize too, they probably never they probably haven't heard of us.
• 38:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I don't even think they know that our still was on the truck with them or anything.
• 38:19
  Aaron: It's too funny.
• 38:19
  Aaron: That way, because I've only told that story in time.
• 38:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, I I think the first time I've told the story was right here on this one, you know.
• 38:27
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But yeah.
• 38:28
  Aaron: I would I would love to think that these guys anticipate every new episode of the Noble Dream and sit patiently waiting for it to go live, but um, we will we will absolutely let them know uh that we have an overlapping shared story.
• 38:45
  Aaron: All right.
• 38:46
  Aaron: Let's talk a little bit about the bottled end.
• 38:49
  Aaron: Yeah.
• 38:50
  Aaron: Here's what we normally do, Blue.
• 38:53
  Aaron: We talk a little bit about the nose, the palette, and the finish.
• 38:56
  Aaron: Gavin tells me what he tastes and smells, and I tell him he's wrong.
• 39:01
  Aaron: It's this instead.
• 39:03
  Aaron: Um, but tonight you get to be the expert.
• 39:06
  Aaron: So let Gavin and I hack hack at it like crazy, and then you tell us what we did wrong.
• 39:11
  Aaron: Is that all right?
• 39:13
  Aaron: You you get to be the judge, jury, and executioner.
• 39:16
  Aaron: And since it's my bottle, that means I have to go you go first.
• 39:20
  Aaron: All right, so what I will say is the you can't help it when you when you do one pour and then you move to a next pour, like you ultimately end up comparing the two between each other.
• 39:32
  Aaron: And I will say I thought the small batch select actually was a little sweeter on the nose, but I actually thought the bottle and bond was a little more elegant.
• 39:46
  Aaron: And and by that what I mean is I think I think small batch had a little bit more vanilla, but when we moved into the bottled and bond, I got distinct butterscotch on the nose.
• 39:57
  Aaron: Like reminded me of I don't know if you guys were the same way, but grandma had the little glas crystal bowls that she would make the pudding in and then put in the fridge and come out, and that was like the the official dessert, and she used to love butterscotch pudding, and this reminds me of butterscotch pudding in a glass.
• 40:16
  Gavin: All right, so you're going with butterscotch.
• 40:18
  Gavin: Yep.
• 40:18
  Gavin: All right.
• 40:19
  Gavin: So I I think that it has a heavy cornflakes kind of nose to it.
• 40:29
  Gavin: Um and not surprising with I think what you mentioned, 80% corn.
• 40:36
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: 80% corn in our mash wheel.
• 40:38
  Gavin: So I think that those that cornflake note, um, because I do think that there's a sweetness to it.
• 40:44
  Gavin: Um so maybe, maybe it is the you know, they're great.
• 40:50
  Aaron: No, I so this this is a problem we've been having for quite some time, Blue, and I'll I'll let you in a little secret.
• 40:57
  Aaron: Gavin often tastes or smells a flavor at the wrong time.
• 41:05
  Aaron: Because Gavin's absolutely right.
• 41:07
  Aaron: There is a there is a ton of sweet corn notes to this.
• 41:11
  Aaron: Absolutely reminds me of cornflakes on the palate.
• 41:15
  Aaron: The nose has much more of a buttery creaminess to it.
• 41:19
  Aaron: So I I I could not agree with Gavin more.
• 41:22
  Aaron: The the idea of like a sweet cornflake, um, like that corn really comes screaming through on the palate to me.
• 41:30
  Gavin: On the palate, I I think uh it tracks, but I also think there's a bit of a dusty hay note that I get out of it.
• 41:40
  Aaron: It's like he's reading my notes a step ahead.
• 41:43
  Aaron: Yeah, for for me, the palate is where the kind of the spicy bite that shows up.
• 41:49
  Aaron: The proof is really misleading on the nose and the palate.
• 41:53
  Aaron: It sips and nose is less than 100 proof.
• 41:57
  Aaron: But on the finish, I get it, right?
• 42:00
  Aaron: The tongue tingles a little bit, there's that kind of spicy note.
• 42:03
  Aaron: Um I think some of the basic baking spice starts to show up a little bit on the on the on the finish.
• 42:10
  Aaron: And yeah, I'm I'm with you.
• 42:14
  Aaron: You're just off by one time.
• 42:18
  Aaron: Like you want to I think I think you get ahead of yourself and start writing them down too early.
• 42:23
  Gavin: Uh on the palette, I think um it's got a long finish.
• 42:27
  Gavin: I put that there's that's where the baking spice was coming out.
• 42:31
  Gavin: Um I and I think it's almost like a black pepper that I'm also getting.
• 42:37
  Gavin: Like that spiciness really shows up, and I think it it's like I'd have said white pepper, but go on.
• 42:44
  Aaron: Like I really don't think.
• 42:46
  Aaron: Are you all ready?
• 42:47
  Aaron: Yeah.
• 42:48
  Aaron: Or we were we right?
• 42:51
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, you know, absolutely.
• 42:56
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean, you're both right.
• 42:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's the issue.
• 42:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You're both right.
• 43:01
  Aaron: What are you Switzerland over there, Blue?
• 43:04
  Aaron: Come on now.
• 43:05
  Aaron: We're both.
• 43:07
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Hey, look, guys, you see, I think of it from a perspective of how we built our bourbon.
• 43:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Because this is the same mash bill as the as the as the small batch select y'all just drank.
• 43:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It'll be the same mash bill of of the of any of our bourbons.
• 43:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We have we have the unique, one unique mash bill.
• 43:24
  Aaron: You're you're at least one more year of aging in the bottled than bond.
• 43:27
  Aaron: Uh-huh.
• 43:28
  Aaron: Yeah.
• 43:29
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Everything, all that juice has to be four years old in there.
• 43:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And you know, and I'll tell you, the first bottle that you were drinking, our small batch select, has juices aging from three three years to four years, right up to four years.
• 43:40
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But you know, and you know, I think that a lot right now the bill is aging, aging, aging, slow down of bourbon sales.
• 43:49
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They're talking about the number of years, and and that's important when you're mass producing bourbon.
• 43:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But when you're taking bourbon like we are, and you're pot stilling it, and you're and You're running it through a hybrid steel with six plates, and you're doing all your cuts by hand, and we're our our distillers, we all know where we make our cuts, and we're able to get them real fine detailed cuts.
• 44:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then when we go into the barrels with our climate, you know, we're not we're not having to age out whiskey, not only to get the oakiness into it from the wood sugars and the tannins, but you're also having to get a finish off of your heavier tailings that you don't cut out when you do continuous distillation.
• 44:27
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And those tailings have to oxidize and age out, and they take a longer period of time.
• 44:32
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So you got two factors that you're having to balance there, aging of your tailings and oaking out of your out of your bourbon.
• 44:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And if you're in a bad climate, it's hard to match those two up.
• 44:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But the climate that we're in right here allows us to and it removes that variable after we've hit a couple of, you know, when we're starting to get in these three and four years, we've minimized that variable that you have to worry about these tailings, and we can start focusing on the oakiness and the profile of the bourbon itself.
• 44:57
  Aaron: Yeah, I I can't think of a better way to explain one of the problems I've inherently had with Texas whiskey than that description right there.
• 45:10
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You're not the first person.
• 45:11
  Aaron: It is either youthful, youthful and rough, or too oaky, right?
• 45:16
  Aaron: But here's the deal, you know.
• 45:19
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And I can tell you why it's that way.
• 45:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And because you got to realize, too, they were pioneering an industry.
• 45:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: All right.
• 45:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They were 20 years ahead of us.
• 45:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And they were getting so much angel share loss that uh it was affecting the economics of their barrels.
• 45:33
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So to minimize angel share loss, they had to change that surface area where the absorption happened, where the angel share loss occurred, and the volume of whiskey in there.
• 45:41
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So when they shrunk down to the 30, 30-gallon barrels, they changed that volume uh to surface area ratios.
• 45:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And our pallets, we're all trained on 53-gallon barrels out of Kentucky.
• 45:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's what we're trained to taste.
• 45:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And they and they were going to those smaller bottles or smaller barrels to minimize the angel share loss, but they were they were oak, they were causing some oaking issues and stuff on it.
• 46:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And so then they started going back to the bigger ones, and I think they're I think they're but it you know, it probably took them 10 years to kind of figure that stuff out.
• 46:12
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And that climate that they're in and some of them South Texas ones, you know, where it's dry, where it's dry and hot, those are those are tough climates to age whiskey in.
• 46:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You get a harsher type whiskey.
• 46:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Nothing, and and I I don't mean to use harsh in a bad way.
• 46:27
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You just get that oaked.
• 46:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And if you like oaked bourbons, those are awesome.
• 46:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh, but I, you know, I'm I think our bourbon tastes more and follows more of a Kentucky-style bourbon when I say that.
• 46:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And I don't say that lightly, trying to claim we're like Kentucky, we're not.
• 46:43
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But what we do is we have a very Kentucky-like climate with more hot days and and more humidity.
• 46:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And so we have a little bit of extended aging season on both sides.
• 46:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Our average annual temperature is higher, which drives oxidation reactions.
• 46:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It breaks down all the all the all the wood sugars and the tannins and everything in the bourbon to mellow it out.
• 47:03
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And I don't want to get too nerdy or too technical here, but those are the things that are happening.
• 47:07
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh so when you you take a climate like what we have where we've got high humidity, so that driving force between your angel share loss and your humidity, the higher your humidity is versus, you know, the inside of that barrel is 100% humidity.
• 47:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's it's moist, it's wet.
• 47:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So the so that that acts as a drive, the lower humidity is a greater driving force for angel share loss, which affects your economics of your barrel, you know, uh primarily.
• 47:30
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, it can flavor and enrich the taste, but that's got to be a balanced thing over several years.
• 47:35
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You think about Kentucky, they get a 3.5% angel share loss a year.
• 47:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, we're getting around 4.5% to 4, 7, 5 or so percent a year angel share loss here.
• 47:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So that tells me that we've got a very similar uh uh profile.
• 47:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean, we were I we I took with Mitch and I extrapolated out the uh average ambient humidity and the average ambient temperature between uh Louisville and here and predicted some aging on it to Mitch.
• 48:03
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And I said, I think somewhere around we're gonna get around or no, or the percent angel share loss, and my guesstimate was 4.75 to 5 here, and it can't and it's come out between four and a half to 4.75 just by extrapolating that data and then making a prediction on what I thought it would be.
• 48:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: This was on the front end before we started aging three and four years of knowing what we would have.
• 48:24
  Gavin: That's awesome.
• 48:25
  Gavin: So, much like what Aaron and I do for our our full-time jobs, there's an art and a science to it, right?
• 48:31
  Gavin: And so whiskey making, and this is what I didn't know until really diving into it, is there is a marriage between art and science.
• 48:41
  Gavin: There there's a distinct science that comes with absolutely, but then there's also the art side of it and knowing how to cut, you know, what to cut, when to cut, um knowing the percentages of angel shares, all of those things come into play.
• 49:02
  Gavin: And so it's not just throwing it in a barrel and praying that it's gonna work out.
• 49:07
  Gavin: I mean, and that's when we when we talk when when I asked the question about was there a barrel that the one that got away, because to me that's like where my anxiety would sit, is I put the juice in the barrel and then I have to sit and wait to see what happens.
• 49:29
  Gavin: And I don't like not having the wood in my hands of captain captaining my own ship, right?
• 49:37
  Gavin: Like I don't like that.
• 49:38
  Gavin: And so whiskey making is a lot of you know, you put the juice in the barrel and then you release the helm to nature and you let nature take the helm and run with it.
• 49:50
  Gavin: But I think I'm a patient, yeah.
• 49:53
  Aaron: But but Blue, to your point, uh it isn't a complete crap.
• 49:57
  Aaron: He's not buying a lottery ticket, he's doing everything he can to rig the game in his favor.
• 50:02
  Aaron: He he's doing everything he can on the front end to make sure the barrel tastes good when it comes out.
• 50:08
  Aaron: Is it a perfect science?
• 50:11
  Aaron: No, by no means, right?
• 50:12
  Aaron: Like some seasons are hotter, some seasons are wetter, right?
• 50:15
  Aaron: Whatever.
• 50:16
  Aaron: But he's doing everything he can on the front end to guarantee quality on the back end.
• 50:22
  Aaron: So I mean we'll will the well there is does every farmer praise for rain, right?
• 50:27
  Aaron: Like I get that.
• 50:28
  Aaron: But to some extent, like how you handle how you handle your field ultimately dictates your yield and how you make your decisions on on where you do your cuts and and what proof you barrel in at, and all of those ultimately create a tasty barrel.
• 50:45
  Gavin: Well, I mean, it's it's just like opening a distillery, like you can do everything you want, but you have to have the follow-through, right?
• 50:52
  Gavin: Like you you have to have the follow-through to make it work.
• 50:54
  Gavin: So all right.
• 50:56
  Aaron: So uh guys, we need to give this one a number, Blue.
• 51:01
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, let me uh can I just add one thing here?
• 51:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Of course.
• 51:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh what I was gonna tell you when I told you you were both right.
• 51:08
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You gotta go back to how we built the bourbon, the mash bill.
• 51:12
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And uh 80% corn.
• 51:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's a little bit higher than normally you see 78 or what.
• 51:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But what we wanted though was we wanted a little bit sweeter on the on the on the on the on on the because we were going with rye.
• 51:27
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And you know, the rye's that we like are are we were looking at different rye grains and the and and I don't know if you ever looked at the star diagram of the flavor profile for rye, but man, there were the the the rye that we used, they just had these two huge arms on the star profile going out toward uh uh sweetness and caramel.
• 51:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So we were like, oh heck yeah, that's the one we want right there.
• 51:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And so that's the that's the rye that we use.
• 51:54
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's a brewer's rye, it comes out of Germany, but it's a rye grain, but it has that sweetness in caramel.
• 51:59
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So that's when we decided to really kind of go with that little bit higher in that mash fill on the corn.
• 52:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So, because that kind of gives us a little bit baseline, a little bit higher baseline of sweetness, and it's really gonna let that rye pop on the on the rice side and get some of those flavor profiles.
• 52:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So I think maybe that caramel, maybe where you're getting that butterscotch and then that corny flavor.
• 52:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And I and I hate to say corny because I don't like corny bourbon, but you know, we're we're corn, and it and it's and if it's distilled it's it's you gotta have that baseline of sweetness to it.
• 52:30
  Aaron: I know he's pretty corny too, so yeah.
• 52:32
  Aaron: If you haven't picked up on it in the first hour we've been chatting, like it's coming still.
• 52:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I think yeah, it's tastes like bourbon, not corn corn whiskey.
• 52:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We make a great corn whiskey, by the way.
• 52:45
  Aaron: No, no, I and you're right.
• 52:47
  Aaron: I I think there is there is distinct notes of corn.
• 52:52
  Aaron: It is not over corn.
• 52:55
  Aaron: Yeah, right?
• 52:56
  Aaron: Yeah, I'm there there are a handful of straight corn whiskeys that like there isn't it tastes like woody moonshine, right?
• 53:05
  Aaron: Because it is it's got way too much of the grain in there.
• 53:08
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But this this is there's I get a group of people that love that though.
• 53:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I know, and they're small, but but and the thing is the corn you know, melt.
• 53:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But they let some uh they're usually from Arkansas, you know.
• 53:20
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They like that corn liquor.
• 53:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They like that corn liquor.
• 53:23
  Gavin: Uh why don't you tell them the score so we or tell them the scoring scale?
• 53:27
  Aaron: We'll do a quick rundown for those.
• 53:28
  Aaron: We do this periodically on the show.
• 53:30
  Aaron: All right.
• 53:30
  Aaron: Um all of our scores are based upon how much you would pay to drink it.
• 53:35
  Aaron: So anything under 60 is undrinkable swill, and even if you gave it to me for free, we wouldn't sip it.
• 53:44
  Aaron: Trust me, it's not a range you need to worry about today.
• 53:48
  Aaron: The 60s to 70s imply I would be interested in drinking it if somebody else bought it for me.
• 53:56
  Aaron: 70s are I'd absolutely be interested in purchasing a glass, but I don't know is if I need to own a bottle.
• 54:04
  Aaron: 80s to 90s are own bottles.
• 54:08
  Aaron: 90s, I would kick a person out of a wheelchair to get in front of them in line to go get that bottle.
• 54:15
  Aaron: It's that good.
• 54:16
  Aaron: That's that's exaggerating, but yeah.
• 54:19
  Aaron: So that being said, I get to give a number first.
• 54:24
  Aaron: Yes, and I put my pen over my number so I already I already wrote mine down and I've been picking my pen up.
• 54:29
  Aaron: I so I'm at an 84.
• 54:31
  Aaron: I think this is a very, very tasty.
• 54:34
  Aaron: When I say quintessential bourbon-flavored bourbon.
• 54:39
  Aaron: I like this one.
• 54:42
  Aaron: I like this one.
• 54:43
  Aaron: This is I I don't I don't know if I'm roughing roughing up people in line, but at the same time, like I love having one of these on the shelf.
• 54:51
  Aaron: I'm a little sad.
• 54:53
  Aaron: I'm a little sad the only bottle I have is a little bottle.
• 54:56
  Aaron: I kind of want a big bottle of this one now, and I gotta be on the lookout for it.
• 55:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's a uh it's a very great utility quality bourbon.
• 55:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You can take that anywhere, any any friends tasting or anything.
• 55:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, somebody's not gonna have it and nobody's ever tried it, but a bottle they're gonna be, oh, I've heard about that, you know.
• 55:14
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, uh we s I send bottles to different friends, people buying them and stuff, and they go to these friends' tastings and all that, and and I've even got some, you know, they go to some of these uh state meetings and different things, you know, uh and and and what we win, you know.
• 55:32
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh and that's the feedback I get is we win, and they all want to know when you bring them back some more of that bite, you know.
• 55:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh we're we're very happy off with with with what you said and where we are, we think that's a fair assessment.
• 55:44
  Aaron: So often a bottle that is big and bold and does something crazy will make some people love it and some people hate it.
• 55:55
  Aaron: Right?
• 55:56
  Aaron: To your point, I think there is nothing about this bourbon that if you like bourbon, yeah, there's nothing about this bottle that you wouldn't enjoy.
• 56:06
  Aaron: Here's where there's a ringing endorsement for.
• 56:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, here's where I say you play.
• 56:11
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Where does this fit in your personal bar?
• 56:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, I mean, this is this this is awesome.
• 56:17
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: This bourbon is great in a bourbon dominant cocktail.
• 56:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: An old fashioned.
• 56:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, uh if you're doing a bourbon Manhattan or a uh yeah, bourbon Manhattan with tomorrow, a black Manhattan is just outstanding on that.
• 56:33
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: If you're doing a uh I kind of like paper planes, you know, uh, but it'd be in the bourbon in a paper plane.
• 56:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So any bourbon type dominant cocktail, it goes great in, but you can also pour that thing on a rock's glass and put it on an ice cube or do whatever, and it's gonna drink just fine.
• 56:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That 104 proof's gonna hold up, and you're you're gonna get a good nice flavor profile off of that drink and not water it down.
• 56:56
  Aaron: All right.
• 56:56
  Aaron: So Gavin needs to tell you a score, and he's gonna just give it one higher than mine.
• 57:00
  Gavin: I'm gonna actually give what were you an 84?
• 57:03
  Gavin: I was in 84.
• 57:03
  Gavin: All right, I'm at an 86.
• 57:05
  Gavin: I think I think this is uh, you know, it's that fastball.
• 57:12
  Gavin: We talk about some baseball analogies sometimes on the show.
• 57:15
  Gavin: I think that's the fastball right down the middle, maybe off to the side just a tad bit, meaning like I think it's it's a little bit above um that average for right down the middle.
• 57:26
  Gavin: Uh it's utilitary.
• 57:29
  Gavin: It it's it's you can do all the things you just said.
• 57:32
  Gavin: You can put it in a cocktail, you can drink it straight, you can drink it with a little tad bit of water, you could drink it on ice.
• 57:38
  Aaron: It's it's a utility infield bourbon.
• 57:41
  Aaron: It can play any position, it can go in drinks, it can be neat, it can be with ice.
• 57:46
  Aaron: Yep.
• 57:46
  Aaron: If if you if you could only have one bottle of bourbon, that's the kind of bourbon you would like to have on the shelf.
• 57:53
  Gavin: Like the proof actually, to me, drinks just a little bit warmer than like 100 proof, right?
• 58:04
  Gavin: So it I think it will stand.
• 58:07
  Gavin: I we haven't tested it tonight.
• 58:10
  Gavin: I think it would stand up to an ice cube and a little and a tad bit of water if that's what you needed.
• 58:15
  Gavin: So I to me it's uh it's delicious.
• 58:18
  Gavin: Like I gladly get to say that this bottle's coming home with me.
• 58:22
  Gavin: So um I'm excited to be able to sip on this and try it in those different uh fashions, right?
• 58:30
  Gavin: Like with a cocktail, with a in the old kind of fashion.
• 58:33
  Gavin: You know me, but um you know me.
• 58:37
  Aaron: All right, so we're gonna go to bottle number two.
• 58:40
  Aaron: But first, got a quick little message.
• 58:42
  Aaron: Kevin's got wonderful news for everybody at home.
• 58:45
  Aaron: So uh we'll catch you guys in just a second.
• 58:49
  Gavin: Oklahomans love to get back, let me tell you.
• 59:02
  Gavin: Head over to Be Noble Dram at Facebook at Instagram for your opportunity that we tasted t onight.
• 59:12
  Gavin: I would love for nothing more than you to fall in love with the phone with Go.
• 59:19
  Gavin: Welcome back everyone to the amazing episode with Hochatown distilling company.
• 59:26
  Gavin: It's my favorite part.
• 59:29
  Aaron: Bottle number two.
• 59:29
  Gavin: Bottle number two.
• 59:30
  Aaron: Technically, bottle number three.
• 59:32
  Aaron: Technically, but score number two.
• 59:34
  Aaron: All right, all right.
• 59:35
  Aaron: Well, I'm gonna put this one to the side.
• 59:36
  Aaron: So we're gonna we're gonna do something slightly different than we normally do.
• 59:43
  Aaron: This is this is this is based on Blue's recommendation.
• 59:46
  Aaron: The next bottle packs a wallet because this is the barrel proof.
• 59:52
  Aaron: So Gavin, if you would be so kind, I brought us a nice little shaker of ice and a couple of glasses.
• 1:00:02
  Aaron: Put a couple cubes in each glass.
• 1:00:05
  Aaron: I'm gonna pour us a meat, and then we'll pour us a little bit over ice, and we will do a dual comparison, if you will, for three to round it off.
• 1:00:17
  Aaron: Three cubes each.
• 1:00:18
  Aaron: Three cubes.
• 1:00:18
  Aaron: My goal?
• 1:00:19
  Aaron: My goal after all the all the hateful things I said about Gavin spilling is my goal is to not spill it.
• 1:00:26
  Aaron: Nailed it.
• 1:00:29
  Aaron: Nailed it.
• 1:00:31
  Aaron: Nailed it.
• 1:00:31
  Aaron: I just hoping you drop that Glencairn.
• 1:00:34
  Aaron: Blue, tell us a little bit about the barrel, the barrel proof.
• 1:00:38
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, I I wish I'd have sent y'all a big bottle.
• 1:00:41
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It is available.
• 1:00:42
  Gavin: You can still do that.
• 1:00:43
  Gavin: It's okay.
• 1:00:44
  Gavin: All right.
• 1:00:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh well, barrel proof.
• 1:00:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We we only have that here at the distillery, and we'll take some of our uh a little bit older barrels for us.
• 1:00:53
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, they're still they're all four years old uh it's uh on on it, but I I may dip down if I need to, but we're all on this one was everything above it.
• 1:01:02
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh I mean we we we go into the barrel at right at 125 proof is when we go what we go into the barrel at 124 and change always.
• 1:01:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And interesting enough, we're kind of getting back over to that climate thing for people that really uh you know on bourbon, when you you know, there's you're starting to see a lot of good information coming about about how the proof changes with your climate and different things.
• 1:01:27
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And in a four years, we'll gain somewhere around 0.25 to 0.75 uh uh proof share gain.
• 1:01:38
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Less than one point, less than one percent, two proof, you know.
• 1:01:43
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh that's actually that's actually, I think that's pretty good because we're not uh we're we're getting a little more proof and we're not losing too much.
• 1:01:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But uh you evaporate on your on your water side, not your alcohol side, you know, based on your climate.
• 1:01:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh so we take we take a four-barrel, it's a it's small, it's a four-barrel blend of some of our nice four-year-old four and five-year-old bourbons, and we'll we'll put those, not a blend, yeah, a blend, and we'll put those together and and then uh we uh uh bottle it.
• 1:02:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, it it's it's not filtered other than the particulate size filter.
• 1:02:22
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's like all of our bourbons, so we we just filter for particulate sizes.
• 1:02:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We don't we got a small little micron filter, but we're not doing any chill filtering or anything like that on them.
• 1:02:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You if you come to our come to our tasting room where the bottles have been sitting for a day or two, you can look and see the little ghost dancing around in the bottom of them.
• 1:02:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And that's that's that's the that's the good stuff right there, is what I call it.
• 1:02:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know, you just turn it upside down and it goes back into solution, but it just kind of a little ghost in there.
• 1:02:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's what I call it.
• 1:02:49
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh you know, you guys are drinking at neat.
• 1:02:55
  Aaron: Is the is the is the proof vary from batch to batch, or do you guys batch to uh I'll say relatively consistent proof.
• 1:03:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: When you when you bottle a spirit, you and say you're going at 90 proof, you've got a little bit of variance there that you can be over and under that falls within an acceptable standard.
• 1:03:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh proof, hold on, hold on.
• 1:03:22
  Aaron: Back up, back up.
• 1:03:23
  Aaron: This this this this is answering a question we've had on other issues.
• 1:03:27
  Aaron: What is that variance?
• 1:03:29
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oh gosh, you had to ask me.
• 1:03:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh Google it.
• 1:03:36
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's like plus or minus.
• 1:03:38
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I think it's two points, so you could go plus or minus a couple of points on it.
• 1:03:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So if it's if it's uh 90, it could have to be like 91.
• 1:03:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It could be 89 to 91.
• 1:03:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Because you also have fill variances, you know, based on the size bottle and stuff, and I always get the two crossed, and I have you know the percentage that you can go.
• 1:03:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So I always get the two crossed and always have to look it up myself.
• 1:04:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But but you got a little bit of variance, variability there.
• 1:04:05
  Aaron: I need something in every in every episode.
• 1:04:07
  Aaron: I need something that I have to go look up and I can put on the screen.
• 1:04:11
  Aaron: So I I will go, I will go find out the answer to this one and I'll put it on the screen.
• 1:04:16
  Gavin: Tied to that.
• 1:04:17
  Gavin: Does Hocha town, and I think I know the answer, but does Hocha town have a hazmat release?
• 1:04:29
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: This is as high proof as we've got right here.
• 1:04:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We're not we're not above is your definition of hazmat above 125?
• 1:04:36
  Aaron: No, 140.
• 1:04:37
  Aaron: 140.
• 1:04:37
  Aaron: 140.
• 1:04:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We've we've never made a hazmat, probably never will.
• 1:04:42
  Aaron: I mean does does any of your stuff actually move that far up?
• 1:04:47
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oh no, no.
• 1:04:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: No.
• 1:04:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We get we get we get about uh two uh less than one percent, and maybe about one to one and a half points share uh points, fruit points, uh movement to get higher alcohol in in a four-year period, you know.
• 1:05:04
  Aaron: So you you'd have to go in the barrel at a much higher proof.
• 1:05:08
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We we go in at 124, just under 125.
• 1:05:12
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know.
• 1:05:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and you know, that was kind of a guess on the front end because if you've got a climate that ages, that's hotter or ages out and takes longer to age, maybe a little bit colder climate, you've got you may have to adjust that proof down.
• 1:05:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's why you see some of them northerners doing a one 115 or 110 barrel proof entry because because they're they're they they don't they don't want to over in in the year extra time that it takes to age that out, you know, they don't they don't want to over oak it.
• 1:05:42
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So they're they're wanting to back off of that oak for oak profile and reduce that solubility of the ethanol that's that's extracting the sugars and the tannins.
• 1:05:52
  Gavin: That's fair.
• 1:05:53
  Gavin: Um so I want to dive in a little bit into um a bit about kind of how where you see Hochatown maybe in like 20 years.
• 1:06:11
  Gavin: What are you hoping?
• 1:06:15
  Gavin: This is a fun question I like to ask people because you know what in your career it's like where do you want to see yourself in you're sitting in you're sitting at the table.
• 1:06:26
  Gavin: You've been in business 10 years.
• 1:06:28
  Aaron: Forecast the next 20 real quick for us blue.
• 1:06:31
  Gavin: Yeah.
• 1:06:32
  Gavin: You know where where do you see like what what are you what are you thinking?
• 1:06:35
  Gavin: Like what's in your head?
• 1:06:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well I I've I I I'm a little bit long in the tooth you know I started the whiskey back and game a little bit a little bit of age on me but I it was one of them things where you can't do it when you're too young because you don't have the patience.
• 1:06:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You got to wait until you're old enough to get the patience if you don't grow up in the industry.
• 1:06:53
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So you know we used to think you know we want to be the biggest thing air out there you know what we we've got a we've got a pretty simple goal is that you take the the the the footprint of the population that we draw into Hochatown for their vacation.
• 1:07:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We're going into that North Texas market Oklahoma a little bit of Arkansas the Louisiana market that geographic footprint i i I'd like to have a a good presence in that footprint and uh you know it's easy to get pigeonholed by distributors and all that kind of stuff and we're we're just gonna focus on carving out our niche you know we've got some laws change in Oklahoma where we can do two to nine adjacent locations anywhere in the state now so we want to expand our brand through that and throughout the in the other parts of the state maybe up in the city or something looking at different things uh we've we're just we're not gonna you know that's a full market everybody's got their national bourbons and they all get you know I mean that that's okay I it's not realistic to break into that but that's really not where I want we want to be I want to be we we want to sit here and focus that we're in a great area of just making some good quality bourbons.
• 1:08:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We've got a 250 gallon steel coming in you know that'll put us up to about 40 to 50 barrels a month that we can produce and that's a lot of bourbon uh especially if you're selling in a region like this and you know we got we have a lot of laws stacked against us you know in Oklahoma you can't ship within or without so we go through Texas to be able to ship out you know to get bourbon to people and and uh uh but but that whole you know whole market the whole whiskey market's in a very unsettled area especially for uh big big whiskey you know they're they're getting hit pretty hard by a couple of different factors and uh uh and it forces down into us that's why you see a lot of stuff hitting the shelf especially in Oklahoma the allocated states and you're seeing more stuff at a cheaper price and and because they're they're flooding the market with uh older bourbons but you know they were sitting on those bourbons all the time when they were allocating stuff and and I you know it's just it's just uh something to just be aware of what what's happened we we just like to put good bourbon out to the bourbon uh consumer and and you got here's what we are and we're we're we're gonna give you our best every day there there's no hiding right I mean it is you're just putting out good bourbon that's what we try to do the one of the things I've and is as I've gotten older right when I was young I wanted to take over the world and I wanted to be the best thing there ever was you mean you're not a young whippersnapper?
• 1:09:36
  Aaron: No I'm neither young nor a whippersnapper either um but like as I as I've gotten older I kind of just want to enjoy what I do if if if that pays the bills and makes me happy like perfect that's all I really can ask for.
• 1:09:52
  Aaron: Um so I absolutely understand that I so one of the things that you guys do um that I think is really fun Gavin and I talk about this idea even within the podcast is like kind of owning our backyard.
• 1:10:09
  Aaron: Like how do we how do we make sure that people close by know RNA in the distillery world you guys have kind of done some partnering with area universities and organizations and and and even country music bands and and said like how can we make product with you guys can for those who don't know what some of those connections are can you kind of run through some of those guys you've partnered up with we we did a partnership initially with Oklahoma State University and and we do still continue that partnership with them uh and that was the first launch if you know three years ago and that was when this you know uh uh university partnering different things come out this was really early on in that Kansas State had done it the year prior uh you know with with Boot Hill this is another boot hill tie-in and and and the the people with OSU had saw what they'd done and then they wanted to bring that to Obama and then that's how we got started up with OSU.
• 1:11:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh uh and and and Boot Hill still does their their stuff with the uh with you guys it was interesting I I watched the podcast and I saw some of the things they were saying about being difficult to get to the stadiums and different things like that because those contracts are controlled by national companies that have all the things lined up and we face those same challenges and all ourselves and those are some unexpected things but we've had a great time launching different releases with OSU and and and I'll tell you uh OSU fans here's an interesting here's a little interesting story.
• 1:11:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So after we did the OSU thing the first year the the the the people from down at University of North Texas Denton Texas the uh the mean green called and at first I was like I don't know if I want to do it you know but they were such nice people and the center of our tourism world is population center is Denton Texas and I was like why not?
• 1:12:10
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And so that was filmed in our second year in our first year was great.
• 1:12:17
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That was uh and but it was a Chad Morris era first first I think it might have been his first or second year but then last year uh yeah you know Chad Chad had quite a run with uh the mean green and that team is now at Oklahoma State so uh if you really want to have a good uh bottle of discussion uh for your for your personal bar if you're an OSU fan you need to get a bottle of the mean green reserve that we sell right here you can get in Texas a little bit but we do a mean green reserve and that's that's the one that we did with with with coach before he before he was big right like that's that's the plan.
• 1:12:56
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah so there's a good tie in there.
• 1:12:59
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I kind of feel like now we need a uh a mean green versus loyal and true and see where we land see I I I I want to I want to um cut off any misconceptions the green paint that is on the walls behind us is Lagavulin scotch green it is not north texas mean green so no no I don't I don't need no that's just the anecdotal story here yeah I don't need fan mail about how great it is that we're supporting the mean green I got a million of them I gotta actually I have a I have a brother in law who is a a North Texas grad and so um anytime we get to to beat up on the North Texas I'm looking with it Denton Texas is a pretty cool little town you know it's a good college town and and they do a lot of neat stuff there and that and overall that's been a fun project uh with doing that with them so we do another collegiate with uh the University of Tulsa here in Oklahoma uh you know they don't have a big fan base but it's it's been good it's been fun uh and I'll say this you know when we launched with the uh the the the OSU the original the fuzzy chap piece we call it uh that thing went huge and and our our name recognition just shot through the roof overnight so from a from a branding your distillery standpoint that that's been huge for us but isn't there a part of you and I be careful I'm not putting words into your mouth isn't there a part of you that just understands a good chunk of those bottles are bought as mantelpieces.
• 1:14:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oh no one's ever gonna drink that whiskey and that's gotta it's gotta hurt your heart just a little bit doesn't it it does and and we and we discuss that you know they're gonna be mantel pieces and that's okay but we still put our bourbon that bottle with the loyal and true says distilled Asian bottle by Hochatown distilling that's our juice that's good juice but you also got to think of it as is those bottles are kind of a a repository of some great bourbon from a young distillery that are always going to be around you just need to be able to drink it with somebody that's going to enjoy it.
• 1:15:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Hey Winamadian football and I bet a bunch of them bottles will get drink that night
• 1:15:31
  Aaron: nothing like a good Fiesta bowl uh to help use bottle sales you might you might get that John Smith bottle out for the Fiesta bowl or something like that.
• 1:15:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oh here we go the red the last release we did of that was the wrestling peak that's got on the front and and that's been a fun release right there I think we might have one of those uh I think we might have one of those I thought we got away from some of this there we go yeah that that's a special little bottle right there isn't it it is yes sir yes sir I think there's even a signature on this one holy I told him if he just wants signatures on bottles I'd sign anything he's got but here's where the OSU site here's where the OSU uh uh uh fans that are gonna like this are gonna gonna gonna nerd out though is where other schools may not but that that's a John Smith signed bottle right there signed by the man the legend himself John Smith he loves he he can do this now that he's retired not with university I can tell you he loves our bourbon and I I haven't I've had a chance to you know meet him two or three we'll be at different things but he does he he's bought a lot of our bourbon as giveaways you know to his owners and all that but he he supported our brand from day one when we did this project I like the way you said he bought to give away not to imply that he drinks too much he's bought a lot but I'm sure he's given it all away oh yes yes he likes it too I'm not saying I don't give whiskey away I absolutely do I tend to give it away in glasses while people sit in the room with me though I get it we like to sip the whiskey as we give it away so we get to partake I get I get friends bringing me bottles of different stuff I put in my office and I write on there you know who gave it to me so the next time they're back I go dig that bottle out and that's what we drink you know that's when we drink it.
• 1:17:34
  Gavin: So blue I was actually gonna ask this question at the very end but I'm gonna ask it now since you just brought it up when blue is not drinking Hochatown distilling cup this is such a loaded question.
• 1:17:50
  Aaron: What are you drinking?
• 1:17:52
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah well you know say I'm at a say I'm at say I'm at a a a bar I want to drink or something like that you know or I can't find ours you you know you frequent an establishment that doesn't keep Hochatown behind the bar well unfortunately when I'm when I'm in up in the city yeah I have you know they mean Oklahoma City here here's the thing yeah the city I here's the thing through Drake's not a local he doesn't know hold up blue I've been through the state Oklahoma City is the city it's what we call it you know it is the city yeah you know if I can't get my bourbon and and we're getting a little better in a lot of places but if I can't get my bourbon I'm gonna go to a rye bourbon so uh if I'm gonna do it I don't know I I love Turkey 101 you know uh anything by Knob Creek the Knob Creek 110 like seven or nine years old that's a that's a that's a good bourbon right there those are my two favorites probably right there you know I I'm not a it's not that I don't like some of the size racks brands and all that but I'm just there's there's some real and those are good bourbons it's just I like I like the character and the profile that the that the that the wild turkey has and and and and some of the uh some of the knob knob creek you know they've been doing it a long time they know what they are what they're doing you're you're speaking to two big Russell's fans yeah yeah yeah um yeah yeah I'm gonna that's that's the he he you you want to see yourself in 20 years to even be uh mentioned as in in a in within a within a sentence or two of that name would be would be an honest you know I I like like I'm gonna propose a 20 year plan okay take take it if you want in 20 years blue sits in the guest the gift shop and just signs bottles as people come to that's what he does all day long is just shake hands kiss babies and write signatures that's it all day long.
• 1:19:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You know when uh people come to the distillery now especially on the Saturdays I mean I'm here every day but most days but I like to come up on Saturdays and have nothing on my plan but to actually meet people and visit with people and talk about bourbon with people uh I I that's one of my favorite things to do and people really appreciate it and like it and uh we've got great tours we are really glad that we made the list of people you're willing to talk bourbon with that's right because that's what it's all about like everything that we we do on the Noble tram everything that we we strive to do is everything I do in my my day job is so I can come home and drink bourbon exactly like we just want to sit and talk life life on life talk about bourbon talk about what's going on in people's lives like the whole thing the the whole thing is so fun and it's I so I love the social as it's the social aspect of it.
• 1:21:01
  Gavin: Yeah I think yeah absolutely what what ultimately created the concept of the noble dram is it's not so much the whiskey in the glass but the guys around the glass that make the the sip enjoyable and so what we wanted was a show in which we got to talk a little bit converse with people get to know people share life if you will with a with a glass in our hand right so that being said I'm gonna I'm I'm trying really hard to keep us on track I'm trying I shouldn't say keep us on track trying to get us back on track maybe a better way to all right so let's talk a little bit about the barrel proof yes here's this is technically my pour oh which means Gavin has to start so here's here's we we did something different we did something different with the with the on ice so I think we should talk about it neat yeah then talk about what did ice do to that is that believe you think that's a fair way to put it totally fair yes okay all right so on the nose tell me how wrong you are on the nose I think you immediately get that proof like there is no hiding like you're not even putting the nose in the glass and you can get that proof and I like that I like higher proof well what I should say is I am much like a lot of the folks out there in this adventure in this hobby where over the years I have strived to get the higher proof stuff I think the phrase you're looking for is proof or proof or that's where we're going with it I don't know exactly where you're going with it.
• 1:22:51
  Gavin: You're dancing around what are you gonna say I'm gonna say what it is we might have ladies listening in and I don't want to we're terribly off we're terribly sorry dear um the one female viewer we have we're terribly sorry we know we have at least two no yeah I don't think your mom watches no no lauren watches in North Dallas so we know okay Lawrence watches that's true um I the proof shows up on the nose right off the bat when you come from a bottle and bond yeah you get the proof this is a so we started at 104 and then actually dipped to 100 yeah this reversed course and went straight up hill we normally at our tastings we'll do the hundred before the 104 but right but for here y'all we start yeah nothing's wrong with that yeah y'all are exactly we went a little we we had a little dessert or I guess we had entree before we we we had the entree before the appetizer that's right okay that's right um so I I think that the there's the spicy note there's a there's a bit of a honey note that I got on it on the nose um obviously there's a pepper because of the spice and then there's a little I I still got the because we're still talking about the same mash bill correct yes right same mash that that I'll be honest that fact is the part I've had a hard time wrapping my head around while I've enjoyed this glass this tastes to me like you've either come off still at a different proof or a different like this is distinctly different whiskey in the glass than the other two.
• 1:24:38
  Aaron: The other two were kissing cousins like I I I totally understand how those are the same this one is distinctly different on the nose.
• 1:24:45
  Aaron: Well tell me what you got on the nose so I wrote down two words and I wrote down hot and spice and Gavin mentioned both of those I I I'm with you in the fact that like there is a robust spiciness.
• 1:25:00
  Aaron: And I think it's twofold when I said spice it was really two levels there's the there's just the sheer proof right spice um which often comes through as like pepper kind of kind of hot edge I think there's baking spice in this one that shows up that I'm not I didn't pick up in the other ones.
• 1:25:22
  Aaron: I get a little clove a little nutmeg some cinnamon notes not over the top I it they're they're very nicely balanced amongst each other.
• 1:25:32
  Aaron: But yeah there's there's both baking spice and heat spice that show up on the notes for me.
• 1:25:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I couldn't disagree with any of that yeah I know it's because I'm right you know I think I'm gonna tell you that I'm right well I'm glad you said balance because early on many discussions that Mitch and I had and we had a good fortune to have a brewer around here who had a good palate and we were doing a lot of tasting of bourbons with him and he really turned us on to the concept of having like a balanced beer profile.
• 1:26:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we really like the thought of having a balance balance in our bourbon uh we wanted it to not be you know too too too forward too backward it needs to balance out and uh this this this this this is high proof bourbon you know straight out of the barrel uh it is what it is uh we do a when we do our tastings on our tours and our flights it's very common for we start up at our 90 proof which y'all don't even have we have a 90 proof small batch uh that's that's a beginner's bourbon entry level bourbon that's what I call it that's a gateway bourbon I call it the gateway bourbon okay but uh and it's great in a non-bourbon and dominant cocktail like uh like a Arnold Palmer with or uh you know lemonade and bourbon or something like that.
• 1:27:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's great there.
• 1:27:01
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh but uh uh it's a drink higher proof because y'all don't have it but our single barrel is is uh I don't know if y'all have it but our single barrel is proofed at 120 proof.
• 1:27:16
  Aaron: So I so I held my finger I held my finger up because it there is one.
• 1:27:22
  Aaron: Oh but it's not for this it's for it's for a treat we have coming in the next near future yeah we can talk about it.
• 1:27:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Keep you keep your eyes peeled you you'll find it single barrels are single barrels you know I'd hate for you to judge me on one barrel.
• 1:27:37
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You could either overjudge me or underjudge me.
• 1:27:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's that you know so it's it's one barrel is what it is.
• 1:27:43
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But they're overall that's it's the ones that we pick that we really like and and have good flavor profiles.
• 1:27:49
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So it's at a 120 proof so people as they drink through they really start noticing it we love the fact that to them the bourbon gets more flavorful and Better as it goes up in proof, which is not a natural reaction that people have that are not professional bourbon drinkers.
• 1:28:08
  Gavin: I would say we're professional.
• 1:28:10
  Aaron: No, we're amateurs.
• 1:28:11
  Aaron: Nobody pays us to do this.
• 1:28:12
  Aaron: Amateurs if you're out there and looking to pay somebody to drink bourbon, I am absolutely eligible for professional status.
• 1:28:22
  Gavin: What I like about what you just said, Blue, was um when you find a new bourbon, finding it at barrel proof or at a higher proof, being able to dial it in to what you like, even if it is at a higher proof than what you typically like, being able to add that tad bit of water or an ice cube to it, absolutely, I think gives you that utility version of it that you're able to dial it into what you like.
• 1:28:57
  Aaron: So but let's be let's be honest.
• 1:29:00
  Aaron: You go buy a barrel-proof bourbon and you tell yourself this allows me to set bourbon exactly what I want.
• 1:29:09
  Aaron: And then you come home, and that little bit of machismo and bravado shows up, and you're like, well, I'm not putting that's for other people to put water into, not for a man like me.
• 1:29:20
  Aaron: And then you just drink it the way it is, even if it's not exactly where you would like it the best.
• 1:29:26
  Aaron: So I say some of that as a preface to how we're tasting tonight.
• 1:29:32
  Aaron: Yes.
• 1:29:32
  Aaron: So I palette, Gavin.
• 1:29:35
  Aaron: Uh-huh.
• 1:29:36
  Aaron: So this blue, you need to understand.
• 1:29:38
  Aaron: Gavin does this when he doesn't know what to say, he starts stretching and he likes starts talking in circles around other stuff.
• 1:29:45
  Aaron: He doesn't have good palette notes and he's afraid we're gonna ask him.
• 1:29:49
  Aaron: That's what I have the best palette note.
• 1:29:51
  Gavin: Are you ready?
• 1:29:51
  Gavin: Let's go.
• 1:29:52
  Gavin: Yeah, all right.
• 1:29:53
  Gavin: All right, are you ready for this, Blue?
• 1:29:55
  Gavin: I'm ready.
• 1:29:56
  Gavin: No, he's not ready.
• 1:29:57
  Gavin: He's not ready for this.
• 1:29:58
  Gavin: The palette on this tasty.
• 1:30:01
  Gavin: That's hot Oklahoma summer day.
• 1:30:05
  Gavin: I don't think that's a compliment.
• 1:30:07
  Gavin: I've been in Oklahoma Summer Day.
• 1:30:14
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Holland Square Bills of height.
• 1:30:16
  Aaron: So in a weird way, on the palette, I got a lot darker flavors than I did on the other two, and by that I mean like brown sugar, dark caramel, almost toffee kind of things going on.
• 1:30:36
  Aaron: There's a lot of spice still, right?
• 1:30:38
  Aaron: Even on the palate, the proof absolutely carries through.
• 1:30:42
  Aaron: But there is a there is a darker sugar note that I had not picked up on the other two.
• 1:30:48
  Aaron: I and I don't I don't know if that's just proof.
• 1:30:52
  Aaron: Maybe it's a little bit of age.
• 1:30:54
  Aaron: I'm I'm not sure what's bringing that to the forefront.
• 1:30:57
  Aaron: But yeah, I this is if you've ever had like a molasses cookie, a molasses cookie, yeah.
• 1:31:05
  Aaron: Yeah, no, that now that now that I say that out loud, it totally rings to me.
• 1:31:11
  Gavin: All right, finish.
• 1:31:12
  Gavin: Finish.
• 1:31:13
  Gavin: I think it's long and spicy, and it is something that I really want and enjoy.
• 1:31:21
  Gavin: It's almost like a um I totally believe that.
• 1:31:25
  Gavin: There's a cookie, it's not a molasses cookie, but I get where you're going to be.
• 1:31:30
  Gavin: Ginger cookies.
• 1:31:31
  Gavin: Yes, ginger snap cookie.
• 1:31:32
  Gavin: Ginger snap cookie is what I got on that.
• 1:31:35
  Aaron: I so this is one of those blue where what I'll tell you is there's a difference between Gavin's palette and mine.
• 1:31:42
  Aaron: Quite often we aligned, right?
• 1:31:43
  Aaron: I understand that.
• 1:31:44
  Aaron: Gavin really likes oak, double oaked bourbons.
• 1:31:49
  Aaron: He loves the screaming hot over oak, Texas, and it's not my thing.
• 1:31:56
  Aaron: Let me nod.
• 1:31:57
  Aaron: Where oak?
• 1:31:58
  Aaron: Where I on this one, I really enjoyed the the nose, and I really enjoyed the palate.
• 1:32:04
  Aaron: The finish is where the wood shows up, and it to me is tannic.
• 1:32:10
  Aaron: It really dries my mouth out, it really puckers me.
• 1:32:15
  Aaron: This is where the caveat to leaning into putting ice in this because none of what I just said on the finish of the neat whiskey shows up in the pour over ice.
• 1:32:32
  Aaron: The pour over ice softens the finish into a much beautiful, much more beautiful, softer sweetness.
• 1:32:41
  Aaron: And the the tannic oakiness cuts way down for me.
• 1:32:47
  Gavin: I think on the finish of the iced version gives me a bit of a hint of working a filled bailing hay.
• 1:33:03
  Aaron: Like there's a dustiness.
• 1:33:05
  Gavin: There's a dustiness to it.
• 1:33:07
  Gavin: Um, bailing hay and throwing hay up onto the trailer, which I did for many summers or areas.
• 1:33:16
  Gavin: Um to me, I I can I can I can get to that.
• 1:33:23
  Gavin: So I I understand what you're saying.
• 1:33:25
  Gavin: When it when there's when it's just dialed in on a little bit of ice, I think there's a little bit of that.
• 1:33:32
  Aaron: It's the dynamics of every one of these whiskies is slightly different.
• 1:33:38
  Aaron: What kind of saddens me about the drink when I put it on ice is it mimics a lot of the other releases we tried tonight, right?
• 1:33:49
  Aaron: And I liked meat on the palate and on the nose.
• 1:33:53
  Aaron: I liked that it was different, but man, it makes the finish so much better.
• 1:33:59
  Aaron: Like to me, the finish is light out better with a couple cubes of ice.
• 1:34:03
  Aaron: I I'm also the kind of guy at the end of a day, if I'm just sitting around enjoying a bourbon, right?
• 1:34:10
  Aaron: I'm not critiquing, I like bourbon with a couple ice cubes.
• 1:34:13
  Aaron: I like cold bourbon.
• 1:34:15
  Aaron: Um it somehow makes it more refreshing to be a little bit chilly.
• 1:34:21
  Gavin: We are in Houston.
• 1:34:23
  Gavin: Yeah, that helps.
• 1:34:24
  Gavin: So there's a bit of this, like we we live in a hot, humid climate most of the year.
• 1:34:31
  Gavin: So when you get home and you're you've had a long day at work, you want something refreshing.
• 1:34:38
  Gavin: So I a hundred percent understand what you mean.
• 1:34:41
  Gavin: I think there are those out there that are gonna be like, Oh, you might oh my gosh, you you water down or you put ice on your your whiskey.
• 1:34:50
  Gavin: But no, there is absolutely a reason to do that.
• 1:34:54
  Aaron: To our comment earlier about how climate impacts the aging of whiskey, it's a concept we haven't really discussed, but climate absolutely impacts the tasting of whiskey as well.
• 1:35:05
  Aaron: 100% in my opinion.
• 1:35:06
  Aaron: I the that neat pour needs a cold day to sip it.
• 1:35:13
  Aaron: Yes, with ice, that that's a that's a hot day drink, right?
• 1:35:19
  Aaron: Like that's a different time of year.
• 1:35:21
  Aaron: Neat is somewhere between Thanksgiving and Valentine's Day, right?
• 1:35:29
  Aaron: Yeah, no, no, the with with ice, I can drink it the rest of the year for sure.
• 1:35:38
  Gavin: No, I and and I will disagree with you because we have talked about it in a bit in our in the show, where there are just certain times where you want a certain kind of whiskey, and a lot of times peated scotches are n are in the summer of Houston are not the greatest time.
• 1:35:56
  Gavin: But that's what I'm saying.
• 1:35:58
  Gavin: You you agree with me, don't disagree with me.
• 1:36:00
  Gavin: I disagree that we haven't talked about it on the show.
• 1:36:03
  Gavin: Oh sorry, sorry.
• 1:36:04
  Gavin: Right.
• 1:36:04
  Gavin: But because I think we we have and we've hinted at it.
• 1:36:09
  Gavin: I think there are certain times that you uh tend to go to certain whiskeys or a certain dilution, if you will, um to that, right?
• 1:36:20
  Aaron: Like it's it's a fun twist.
• 1:36:22
  Aaron: And maybe um blue, maybe this is a question for you.
• 1:36:25
  Aaron: Is there a different proof point or a different whiskey style that you prefer when we're talking cold weather versus warm weather?
• 1:36:39
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Yeah, I mean, in the warm weather, uh a lot of times I like it a little more refreshing.
• 1:36:46
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So I'll do uh maybe our 90-proof bourbon and lemonade, something of that nature.
• 1:36:51
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh just something on the rocks, something, you know, kind of kind of just refreshing.
• 1:36:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Maybe a little spritzer or something in it, just something to kind of carbonate it, just a tad or something.
• 1:37:02
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I I do enjoy a drink like that.
• 1:37:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But I also enjoy sitting out there when it's 100 degrees outside and sitting on the back porch drinking a bourbon meat.
• 1:37:10
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's nothing more old bourbon whiskey drinkers from the late 1800s before air conditioning.
• 1:37:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: That's how they drink bourbon, you know.
• 1:37:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So there's it was it's it's awesome being drinked.
• 1:37:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's great being drinked that way as well.
• 1:37:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I enjoy that.
• 1:37:24
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Nothing like sitting out there with friends.
• 1:37:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You just got sweating.
• 1:37:27
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You need rock.
• 1:37:33
  Gavin: Well, if you're gonna go rocking chair, now you need a tobacco pipe.
• 1:37:37
  Gavin: You need to be willing to stick.
• 1:37:40
  Aaron: Yeah, you need a hound dog laying there next to you.
• 1:37:43
  Aaron: Like, I get it.
• 1:37:43
  Aaron: I get it.
• 1:37:44
  Aaron: Hold on, hold on, hold on, hold on.
• 1:37:45
  Aaron: Picture the whole thing.
• 1:37:46
  Aaron: That's a country song in and of itself, right there.
• 1:37:49
  Aaron: Oh, it is.
• 1:37:50
  Aaron: It's a visual country song.
• 1:37:52
  Aaron: Yeah.
• 1:37:52
  Aaron: Like I got like four jokes that reminds me of, but we don't got time for them.
• 1:37:56
  Aaron: All right.
• 1:37:56
  Aaron: Corny or otherwise.
• 1:37:58
  Aaron: All right, it's tons of jokes.
• 1:37:58
  Aaron: Did you just say corny?
• 1:38:00
  Aaron: I well, you said I tell corny jokes, so I said corny or otherwise, I've got jokes.
• 1:38:05
  Aaron: All right.
• 1:38:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They called him dad jokes now.
• 1:38:07
  Aaron: Gavin needs to give it a number.
• 1:38:10
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: All right.
• 1:38:11
  Aaron: I I so just just around the same.
• 1:38:14
  Aaron: I I I'm a father of four.
• 1:38:16
  Aaron: Gavin is a father of Uno.
• 1:38:18
  Aaron: He's got it easy.
• 1:38:20
  Aaron: I hold on, hold on, hold on.
• 1:38:21
  Aaron: Pardon me.
• 1:38:22
  Gavin: Your last kid is about to swoon off to the nest or out of the nest.
• 1:38:28
  Gavin: Oh mine just started kindergarten.
• 1:38:31
  Aaron: No, no, no.
• 1:38:31
  Aaron: I've I've seen it all.
• 1:38:33
  Aaron: I am a battle-hardened veteran.
• 1:38:34
  Aaron: When you say I've got it, I got two out of the bad.
• 1:38:38
  Gavin: Oh, you know, you've got it easy now.
• 1:38:40
  Aaron: I'm just starting the adventure.
• 1:38:43
  Aaron: So Gavin needs to give his number, though.
• 1:38:49
  Aaron: All right.
• 1:38:49
  Aaron: I told you, he's gonna he's gonna figure out a way to not say his number as long as possible.
• 1:38:56
  Aaron: All right.
• 1:38:57
  Gavin: This one, the barrel proof.
• 1:39:00
  Gavin: I think it is hitting hard in a good way.
• 1:39:05
  Gavin: It's something that I want on the shelf.
• 1:39:08
  Gavin: I think it's long, it's spicy on the palate.
• 1:39:12
  Gavin: Give it a number already.
• 1:39:14
  Gavin: Look at this guy.
• 1:39:16
  Gavin: It's one of my favorite numbers.
• 1:39:19
  Gavin: It's 88 miles per hour.
• 1:39:22
  Gavin: 1.21 gigawatt.
• 1:39:24
  Gavin: Wow.
• 1:39:27
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: He's ready to knock somebody down to get that bottle.
• 1:39:29
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Oh, right.
• 1:39:30
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: He's throwing elbows at that time.
• 1:39:32
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Hey, he's debating it.
• 1:39:34
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: No, I think I took one.
• 1:39:38
  Aaron: That's a good sign because he's got to drive to Oklahoma to get this.
• 1:39:41
  Aaron: This is nothing down the street.
• 1:39:43
  Aaron: You got you gotta want this one.
• 1:39:48
  Gavin: I think that it is something that it's when we talked about the first pour being utilitary.
• 1:39:56
  Gavin: I think this is really it stands out.
• 1:39:59
  Gavin: It stands out.
• 1:40:00
  Gavin: It's something you can put it on ice and it and it gets it to a point that you might want it on a hot summer day.
• 1:40:10
  Gavin: This is something that I want to, I want to sip on when it's chilly outside.
• 1:40:16
  Gavin: And I'm sitting in my old man's sweater, and I've got my tobacco pie's original.
• 1:40:23
  Gavin: And my Werthers original in my pockets, and I'm about to twill it out and put it in.
• 1:40:29
  Gavin: Like this is what I wanna, this is what I want to sip.
• 1:40:32
  Aaron: Well who doesn't know what an old man you are?
• 1:40:35
  Aaron: Yeah, I mean, you look young.
• 1:40:36
  Aaron: I mean, beard color alone, you'd think I was older, but no, Gavin is much older at heart.
• 1:40:42
  Aaron: Yes.
• 1:40:43
  Aaron: I so here's my question Is this an 88 neat or an 88 with ice?
• 1:40:52
  Aaron: Or are you where where in that spectrum is that 88?
• 1:40:57
  Aaron: Because I'll tell you where my number is next, and I'll I want I want to establish that precedence.
• 1:41:04
  Gavin: It's an 88 neat.
• 1:41:06
  Gavin: It's an 88 because it is something that I can use all year round, depending on if I'm putting ice on it, if I'm putting a dash of water in it, if I'm sipping it neat.
• 1:41:21
  Gavin: All of those things, like to me, this is something I want to see sip around a bonfire, like in Oklahoma, like trying to run the mosquitoes off.
• 1:41:34
  Gavin: Well, there's that.
• 1:41:35
  Gavin: Um, but like a pig roast, to me, this is something when it's cooler weather outside, neat at a pig roast would be phenomenal.
• 1:41:48
  Aaron: This is what happens.
• 1:41:48
  Aaron: We get three pores in a night.
• 1:41:50
  Aaron: Gavin gets very uh handsy in his gestures.
• 1:41:55
  Aaron: I go this is this is the trouble.
• 1:41:58
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: If you want to have only have three fours in a night, that that that right there is what you want.
• 1:42:02
  Aaron: So that's that's two and one for sure.
• 1:42:05
  Aaron: So for me, this got the same score as the as the previous bottle.
• 1:42:10
  Aaron: I'm at an 84, but for totally different reasons.
• 1:42:13
  Aaron: And I I'll say this it's an 84 neat.
• 1:42:21
  Aaron: I probably go up a point or two with ice.
• 1:42:24
  Aaron: Oh, I actually I actually think this gets better with a glass or with a couple cubes.
• 1:42:29
  Aaron: One of the problems tends to be you put ice into bourbon and it tastes like watered down bourbon.
• 1:42:35
  Aaron: Ice in this glass actually brought everything exactly where I wanted it to be.
• 1:42:42
  Aaron: So I think this actually moves up just a smidge, but in in in the in the name of science, if we're naming if we're giving scores based upon the I'm in an 84.
• 1:42:54
  Aaron: This is this is absolutely enjoyable pour.
• 1:42:56
  Aaron: I will say across the board, across everything we've tried today, one of the fears I had was that this would have a bit of that Texas youthful overoaked kind of thing.
• 1:43:11
  Aaron: I I I'll be honest, I'll be honest, I'm not real familiar with most Hochatown products.
• 1:43:20
  Aaron: Gavin has given me a bottle, and I've tried one of the lighter ones, and I absolutely enjoyable.
• 1:43:25
  Aaron: Not one we sampled tonight, though, right?
• 1:43:28
  Aaron: I had no no preconceived notions.
• 1:43:30
  Aaron: Um I I have been thoroughly impressed by the quality at which you guys are getting tasty bourbon in a very reasonable time frame.
• 1:43:43
  Aaron: Like not running over oaked, not coming into youthful across the board.
• 1:43:49
  Aaron: Well, well done.
• 1:43:50
  Aaron: Well done.
• 1:43:53
  Gavin: Thank you guys.
• 1:43:53
  Gavin: So blue, how did we do?
• 1:43:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh y'all are right on it.
• 1:44:00
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean, I mean, I I hate to say it, but I mean, you get it.
• 1:44:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I mean, and I'll just say this.
• 1:44:05
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: As you're a little bit more mature in a bird.
• 1:44:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: When I was a young buck, when I say a young buck 20 years ago, you know, a younger buck.
• 1:44:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I'd like that, I like that high proof, you know.
• 1:44:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It was hell raising forward arrival, and I drink that high-proof liquor.
• 1:44:21
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But as I've matured and gotten older where I can enjoy things and learn maybe to pace down a little bit, and no one can't do that.
• 1:44:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I I I I like it on the rocks a little bit, you know.
• 1:44:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: I'm I'm bourbon to me, and this is what this has a kind of been a personal growth for me, even, is that I've really learned to enjoy bourbon a lot of different ways, other than just neat and all that.
• 1:44:45
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But making it putting it with some fine, finding fine mixers and different things to put it with, you know, when you're saying aperols and things like that, and really exploring bourbon as a cocktail in itself has been probably one of the more pleasurable things that I've got to do myself, just in part of my own personal growth of how I like to drink bourbon and where I'm going with bourbon drinking and what I like to do with it is just really getting out and exploring some of those other great products that are out there that are made, you know, from aperols to to to you know uh amaros to different things and mixing and bringing them in.
• 1:45:23
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They're all kind of bitters-based anyway.
• 1:45:26
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So just really exploring that bitter side of bourbon and mixing that bitters with that sweetness and and getting even out of that old-fashioned and getting over some of those things has been some of the really pleasurable things that I've enjoyed, you know, about drinking bourbon.
• 1:45:40
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and I really love the way our bourbons mix with those as well.
• 1:45:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we were very fortunate that we we we nailed on some of the things and hit on some of the things that we hadn't talked about.
• 1:45:50
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we put you plan it and you hope for the best, and and it was almost uh just I feel that we've we've kind of hit a really nice spot because at the end of the day, you're gonna know what Hutchtown bourbon tastes like.
• 1:46:04
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Just like you know what Jim Bean, just like you know what any Russell brand, they all, you know, uh a maker's mark, uh uh a Buffalo Church.
• 1:46:14
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: They all got that, they pick up that region and that style and that profile.
• 1:46:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And that's why really being true with distilling aging bottling on site and staying true to that path and following that path and not trying to shortcut things.
• 1:46:28
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We didn't have a choice.
• 1:46:29
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We had to stay on that path because we had to change laws in front of us, you know, to keep moving forward.
• 1:46:34
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So we couldn't do some of that stuff.
• 1:46:36
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's it's been very rewarding and and honest, and and that's what we want at the end of the day.
• 1:46:41
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We're gonna bring you a honest bourbon that uh you're gonna enjoy throughout all the different proofs and all the different uh uh area uh grow areas of growth that you are in your bourbon journey.
• 1:46:54
  Aaron: I I don't want to steal Gavin Sunder because I'm sure he's just ecstatic.
• 1:46:58
  Aaron: He's been riding on this OSU Cowboys High for a week now, knowing that this was coming.
• 1:47:04
  Aaron: But I I do want to say thank you very much.
• 1:47:08
  Aaron: Uh one for just the craftsmanship of what you guys produce, uh, your willingness to share not only your story but your whiskey with us.
• 1:47:18
  Aaron: We greatly appreciate it.
• 1:47:20
  Aaron: So oh before no, no, before we end, for those at home that are like, this sounds amazing.
• 1:47:29
  Aaron: Gavin gave it an 88.
• 1:47:31
  Aaron: I mean, uh I I want to try this.
• 1:47:33
  Aaron: Trust me, we all know they can wait, they can drive to Broken Bow, spend the weekend.
• 1:47:39
  Aaron: You got cabins, there's a place for people to stay, come by the distillery the whole bit.
• 1:47:44
  Aaron: And there's a brewery, what next door?
• 1:47:47
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Next door in the winery.
• 1:47:48
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: My wife owns the knotted rope winery, she makes starting orange we put in.
• 1:47:54
  Aaron: Start their move, move over to grow up.
• 1:47:56
  Aaron: Yeah, but but for those for those who don't find themselves a short jaunt from the distillery, how does one get a hold of a bottle of Hochatown?
• 1:48:10
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Well, you can go into our website and you can go on there under Spirits and you can order spirits there.
• 1:48:17
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh Oklahoma doesn't allow you to ship within or without, but we do have uh Longhorn in Texas in the Houston area that will ship, and they go through a company called Big Thirst, which is a third-party platform, and we have a distributor in Texas, and and you can get a lot of these bourbon shipped right into your house there.
• 1:48:35
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So not the barrel-proof, but you can get the bottle and bond, you can get the small batch select, and then and then there's actually a few of the OSU brands that are in there.
• 1:48:44
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So you can get those on there and and shipped.
• 1:48:47
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And you know, you just be prepared to take 30 days to get it because it's a cumbersome process.
• 1:48:53
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: It's not us, it's not anybody, it's just all the legal maneuvers and things that you have to go and order, and it's a process, but you know, take two to four weeks to get it.
• 1:49:02
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But you know, it's liquor and it's controlled highly, so that's part of it.
• 1:49:06
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: But you can do that as well.
• 1:49:08
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And then if you're in the DFW area, you know, there's Liquor King that carries a lot of our products.
• 1:49:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh, there's four or five locations, and and then we're just kind of a smattering around in Oklahoma.
• 1:49:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You can find it in most spots, but we always encourage people to come right here to the store because you can get every brand, every bottle that we've ever made, and it's always in stock.
• 1:49:27
  Aaron: Now, you're right across the border from Arkansas.
• 1:49:29
  Aaron: Does Arkansas have it?
• 1:49:31
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Uh it is in in Arkansas, uh in in in spaces.
• 1:49:36
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: We we put a big marketing effort in Arkansas, but you know, it if you don't have the national brands tied behind you, you know, you get pigeonholed and all, and and and and what you wind up doing is letting your letting your distributor sell it at a marked up price for for uh uh uh uh marketing your product and then they don't market it and you have to spend your money marketing, and that's not a win-win because they're they're taking the margin for marketing, and you're paying if you want to get any name recognition or anything out there, you've got to pay for the marketing, and and you just you you can't make money at that.
• 1:50:09
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: So uh you know, so you kind of that's one reason why you kind of have to withdraw.
• 1:50:13
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: You have to understand what your limitations are and all.
• 1:50:15
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And we we've got a plan to go back into Arkansas, though.
• 1:50:18
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: And and it's it's uh it's a really it's a really cool plan, and y'all will uh y'all will enjoy it, but we're about two years away from talking about that and and doing that.
• 1:50:29
  Aaron: For those at home, HoachatownDistilling.com.
• 1:50:34
  Aaron: Go check out the website.
• 1:50:36
  Aaron: You can order whatever you need.
• 1:50:39
  Gavin: And what I will say is they've had a smattering of amazing whiskeys and spirits, so make sure you go check it out.
• 1:50:49
  Gavin: And I would be remiss if I didn't give a shout out to Eskimo Joe's Eskimo Joe's clothes and Still water, um, Okie State, and hold on, hold on, hold on, Ralph's beef jerky.
• 1:51:11
  Gavin: If you don't know Ralph's Beef Jerky, go check it out.
• 1:51:16
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Where is it at?
• 1:51:17
  Gavin: It's in Perkins, Oklahoma.
• 1:51:19
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: All right.
• 1:51:20
  Aaron: I am not eating beef jerky before we have our final sip.
• 1:51:26
  Gavin: So but no, I'm eating it afterwards, for sure.
• 1:51:30
  Gavin: Afterwards, a little Ralph's beef jerky.
• 1:51:33
  Gavin: This is my hometown of Perkins, Oklahoma, beef jerky.
• 1:51:37
  Gavin: You cannot go wrong.
• 1:51:40
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: All right, we've well I tell you, I think drinking Burb eating beef jerky probably go pretty good together, don't they?
• 1:51:46
  Aaron: Uh yeah.
• 1:51:47
  Aaron: It needs a pot of baked beans, and we're right on the trail.
• 1:51:51
  Aaron: We're right on the trail.
• 1:51:52
  Aaron: Hey, Blue, we want to thank you very much.
• 1:51:55
  Aaron: So raise a glass.
• 1:51:57
  Tommy "Blue" McDaniel: Thank you guys.
• 1:51:58
  Aaron: To everyone out there, cheers.
• 1:52:00
  Gavin: And Slainte Mhath.
• 1:52:04
  The Noble Dram: We want to thank you, our noble listener, for joining us.
• 1:52:06
  The Noble Dram: We believe each whiskey has a story, and so do you.
• 1:52:09
  The Noble Dram: So give us your thoughts by leaving a comment.
• 1:52:10
  The Noble Dram: And if you have a whiskey you would like to see us share, let us know.
• 1:52:13
  The Noble Dram: You don't want to miss a single episode, so subscribe to our YouTube channel and make sure to like and follow us on Facebook, Instagram, and TikTok to stay up to date on the Noble Dram.
• 1:52:22
  The Noble Dram: If you find watching us difficult, you can always listen to each episode on Apple Podcasts and Spotify.
• 1:52:27
  The Noble Dram: As always, be noble and enjoy your dream responsibly.