Latest / Caught on the Mike... / "Pursuit Through Dissension" with lawyer & influencer- Rachael Reese

Transcript

"Pursuit Through Dissension" with lawyer & influencer- Rachael Reese · Caught on the Mike...

• 1:02
  SPEAKER_00: Ladies and gentlemen, it's caught on the mic.
• 1:07
  SPEAKER_00: Attorney Rachel Reach.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_00: I found you on TikTok.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_00: I think a lot of people have found you on TikTok.
• 1:15
  SPEAKER_00: How the hell are you doing on this Wednesday night?
• 1:18
  SPEAKER_01: I am fabulous.
• 1:19
  SPEAKER_01: How are you doing?
• 1:20
  SPEAKER_00: Fantastic, fantastic.
• 1:22
  SPEAKER_00: Uh the weather, I'm sure, is amazing out in Florida where you're at.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's actually trash today.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: I was actually rollerblading and I got into my car within moments of the most hurricane-like torrental downpour.
• 1:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, okay, thank you, Florida.
• 1:37
  SPEAKER_00: So you're not a rain person, is what you're saying?
• 1:40
  SPEAKER_01: I actually enjoy the rain, not when I'm stuck outside in it.
• 1:43
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it was literally like the lightning was, you know, they say the lightning and the thunder when they're closer together.
• 1:48
  SPEAKER_01: It means it's close.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_01: They were literally on top of each other.
• 1:51
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I'm gonna get struck by lightning.
• 1:53
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, right now.
• 1:54
  SPEAKER_01: Right now.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_01: Oof.
• 1:55
  SPEAKER_00: So let's not waste any time.
• 1:57
  SPEAKER_00: Let's tell our listeners a little bit about who you are and what your background is.
• 2:01
  SPEAKER_01: So I'm Rachel Reese.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_01: I am a criminal defense attorney in Tampa, Florida.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I actually only handle appellate and post-conviction matters.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_01: So, meaning my clients have already either taken a plea or they've gone to trial and been found guilty, and they're 99% of them are in prison.
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_01: So I got friends all over the state, all over the country, actually.
• 2:21
  SPEAKER_01: For I do a lot of federal cases too.
• 2:23
  SPEAKER_01: I always tell my friends, I'm like, listen, if you want good friends, they're the ones to have because they got your back through all the things.
• 2:29
  SPEAKER_01: But so I've been doing this now for eight years.
• 2:31
  SPEAKER_01: I went to uh Stetson here in Gulfport, Florida, which is right by Tampa.
• 2:36
  SPEAKER_01: And I literally got my job while I was in school, got an internship, and then I got extremely lucky, fell in love with it, and I never left.
• 2:45
  SPEAKER_01: It's not where I thought that I would be.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_01: I never thought that I could handle the criminal side of things.
• 2:51
  SPEAKER_01: I originally wanted to do family law because my parents got divorced, and that was a whole messy spiel of stuff.
• 2:58
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but then I got an opportunity, I took it, and it ended up being the best thing that ever happened to me.
• 3:05
  SPEAKER_01: So zero regrets.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_00: Do you think your parents' divorce really influenced your desire to get involved with the legal field?
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_01: 100%.
• 3:13
  SPEAKER_01: It's so funny, actually, yesterday.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_01: So my dad lives in Atlanta, my mom lives in Rhode Island, and my dad's actually down right now visiting.
• 3:19
  SPEAKER_01: And I had to kind of warn him.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I said, you know, I made a podcast and you're talking about it a lot.
• 3:24
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, and I really talk about you guys a lot because you're the reason.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_01: And he kind of was like, why?
• 3:30
  SPEAKER_01: And it wasn't my reaction to their divorce because I was in ninth grade when they told me they were getting divorced.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_01: It was my sister who is two years younger than me, but three grades younger than me.
• 3:40
  SPEAKER_01: She was, it was kind of like the divided family.
• 3:43
  SPEAKER_01: I was mom's favorite kid, you know, rock can say favorites, but I was like mommy's girl, and she was daddy's girl.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_01: Like it just was like that.
• 3:49
  SPEAKER_01: So when they got divorced, you know, she was young, number one, and she didn't really understand.
• 3:54
  SPEAKER_01: But then it just kind of came like, I don't know, it just became very divided.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_01: And my dad moved on south, and we just didn't really see him a lot.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_01: And that's why I explained to him the other day.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_01: I said, you know, it really affected her differently.
• 4:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I was, you know, going through my high school years and watching my younger sister go through the most important years of her life, and it really changed her and it like kind of morphed her into who she is now.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_01: You know, everybody always jokes, you know, you have daddy issues, but it's it's true and it does affect people.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_01: And I think the whole process made me really want to try to contribute and try to get change for kids that were involved with the whole divorce process.
• 4:32
  SPEAKER_01: So my family says that I said I wanted to be a lawyer when I could talk.
• 4:36
  SPEAKER_01: I don't remember it that way.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_01: I I think that I definitely, like in middle school, when I learned I could argue really well, that was definitely a turning point.
• 4:44
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but my parents' divorce was 100% the most significant thing in my life.
• 4:49
  SPEAKER_01: It made me realize that kind of like why I wanted to do it.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_01: It wasn't just about arguing anymore.
• 4:54
  SPEAKER_01: It was kind of about wanting change for people who could not speak for themselves in a way.
• 4:58
  SPEAKER_00: The reason I ask is because this is an area where you and I kind of have a kinship.
• 5:02
  SPEAKER_00: Now, granted, I didn't go into the legal field, but I'm also I'm also good for you.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_01: Good for you.
• 5:09
  SPEAKER_00: I'm also a child of divorce, and I went through it at the and I'm the oldest, but I went through it at the same age as your younger sister.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: I think I was sixth grade going on to seventh grade.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 5:19
  SPEAKER_00: And my dad used to tell people I was 12 going on 21 because it makes you grow up so fast.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_01: So fast.
• 5:28
  SPEAKER_00: You learn terminology that kids shouldn't know, and then it was only compounded later in life because I was like, this is never gonna happen to me.
• 5:36
  SPEAKER_00: This is how my life is gonna go, and then I ended up getting divorced, you know, patterns, I guess.
• 5:41
  SPEAKER_01: Which is interesting because my sister has been divorced, and you know, it's kind of just weird.
• 5:45
  SPEAKER_01: Like that those are things you experience, and you're you swear either you'll never get married or you'll never get divorced, and then it you try so hard and it just ends up in your lap.
• 5:55
  SPEAKER_00: But that's yeah, absolutely.
• 5:58
  SPEAKER_00: So criminal appellate court, right?
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, what is your experience being a part of that system?
• 6:04
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of weird because I am not okay.
• 6:07
  SPEAKER_01: People always want to know how do I get into that?
• 6:09
  SPEAKER_01: Like, you know, right out of law school, and my path is not normal to be a 24-year-old lawyer, brand new baby lawyer, is what I used to call myself.
• 6:18
  SPEAKER_01: I still call myself that, and I'm 31 now, but I was like, you don't end up here because normally it takes experience.
• 6:25
  SPEAKER_01: You can't recognize issues without experience.
• 6:29
  SPEAKER_01: And I got here because when I was in law school, my second year of law school, I took every family law class alive.
• 6:36
  SPEAKER_01: I did all the internships.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_01: I was at a domestic violence, which is crazy now because now I represent people who were accused of domestic violence.
• 6:44
  SPEAKER_01: It's just crazy to me.
• 6:45
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I had an I had a mentor in law school who was in a was working at my firm and she was like, hey, I'm about to graduate and I'm gonna be studying for the bar exam.
• 6:55
  SPEAKER_01: My boss will not let me work, so he has an internship that's posted.
• 6:58
  SPEAKER_01: You should apply.
• 6:59
  SPEAKER_01: I applied, I did not get it.
• 7:01
  SPEAKER_01: So the girl that they offered it to ended up rejecting it, and so I got it later.
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_01: And I worked through the summer and I fell in love with it just because it was kind of the same.
• 7:10
  SPEAKER_01: It's like a family law situation.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_01: It's not the same, but I mean, the person that I represented was a pharmacist who had been convicted in federal court of trafficking pills.
• 7:19
  SPEAKER_01: Basically, these addicts were coming into his pharmacy, and he basically was manipulated.
• 7:27
  SPEAKER_01: And I, oh, this this case, it just ate me alive.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, the I got close to the family, and I was like, No one wants to help this like poor old man.
• 7:36
  SPEAKER_01: So that was kind of like the beginning of the end.
• 7:38
  SPEAKER_01: At the end of the summer, my boss was like, Do you want to stay on part-time as an intern?
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_01: Like during your last year of law school.
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, Why not?
• 7:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, I'm getting paid, it's experience.
• 7:47
  SPEAKER_01: So I stayed on, and literally, like six months later, they were like, Okay, here's your job.
• 7:52
  SPEAKER_01: Offer at the end of all this if you want it.
• 7:54
  SPEAKER_01: And I was so into it at that point.
• 7:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and this is where it gets kind of ironic.
• 7:59
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so the way that it works with the bar exam is you have to take the bar exam the last week in July.
• 8:05
  SPEAKER_01: I took the bar exam.
• 8:06
  SPEAKER_01: Two months later, I found out that I passed, and then one week later, the girl who gave me my job, which I love her to death now, we are best friends, she quit.
• 8:15
  SPEAKER_01: Not like a little out of nowhere.
• 8:17
  SPEAKER_01: She said she had like a midlife crisis at age 25, literally left me with 100 clients.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_01: I had no idea.
• 8:22
  SPEAKER_01: I had I knew what I was doing, but I was nowhere near like knowing what I needed to do.
• 8:28
  SPEAKER_01: It was insanity.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: So I had a choice.
• 8:30
  SPEAKER_01: I could either sink or swim.
• 8:32
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, I will not sink.
• 8:34
  SPEAKER_01: I swam and I still thank her.
• 8:36
  SPEAKER_01: She literally texted me yesterday.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, You're welcome for changing your whole life.
• 8:40
  SPEAKER_01: So when people ask me like how I got here, this is not the normal path.
• 8:43
  SPEAKER_01: Normally, you're I go against a everyone that I go against is significantly older because they have experience because you have to be able to look for the issues that you only really can recognize if you have been a trial attorney um or do other things, but I just had no choice.
• 9:00
  SPEAKER_01: So I busted my ass.
• 9:02
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, anybody that knows me will literally say that my job was my number one priority for the first five years.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it it is still, but so at least the first five years, I eat, I ate, breathed, slept, all things worked because I just had to learn everything and I had no choice because those people's literal their lives were at stake.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: So one of the things that I've noticed about you is you're doing a really good job of leveraging social media to draw attention to your field.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: Primarily, like I said at the jump of the episode, you know, I discovered you through TikTok and then followed you through Instagram.
• 9:35
  SPEAKER_00: On your website, you talk about using your social media to bring attention to your field.
• 9:42
  SPEAKER_00: Can you explain that a little bit?
• 9:44
  SPEAKER_01: Sure.
• 9:45
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of funny because before I even had TikTok, which was a total random occurrence, um, it wasn't something that I planned.
• 9:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was a COVID thing and my sister visiting.
• 9:54
  SPEAKER_01: But before that, my law partner actually is has always used social media to our advantage.
• 10:01
  SPEAKER_01: Not with my clients per se, because my clients are in prison.
• 10:03
  SPEAKER_01: They don't have social media.
• 10:05
  SPEAKER_01: But, you know, social media, unfortunately, people who don't want to admit this are, I think, are kind of fooling themselves.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is it is the way that this world is working now.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_01: It's the way that we it literally can tell you things that you never even knew before.
• 10:20
  SPEAKER_01: Whether it's social media or just the internet in general, that's where you go for all of your information.
• 10:25
  SPEAKER_01: And that just is it's the future, honestly.
• 10:28
  SPEAKER_01: So even before TikTok, my firm would use social media.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_01: We had a we have a Facebook account, we have a Twitter, we would post, you know, we would, you know, we would respond to articles that were going on and big topics in the world and just kind of give our take on them.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_01: So my TikTok is not associated with my firm at all.
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_01: They know about it and they're cool with it.
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_01: But when I started it, it wasn't originally about law at all.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_01: It was about random stuff until I started talking about law and I realized that there was literally no, there was not a lot of information out there.
• 11:01
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, okay, well, this is a perfect opportunity to kind of spread the spread the wealth.
• 11:06
  SPEAKER_01: So then I just kind of piggybacked on top of that that this is a great opportunity to kind of continue spreading what my boss has already been spreading through other social media forums.
• 11:17
  SPEAKER_01: And again, it's not through my firm, but obviously I am related to them and my name is in the firm name.
• 11:24
  SPEAKER_01: So I think that it definitely contributes.
• 11:26
  SPEAKER_01: And I have people that call all the time, like, oh, I found you on TikTok.
• 11:28
  SPEAKER_01: I'm like, oh great.
• 11:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm sorry.
• 11:31
  SPEAKER_00: I was gonna ask you that because your content, I you know, I always do a pre-production on the intros for these episodes of the podcast.
• 11:39
  SPEAKER_00: And one of the things that I said in the intro is that you're spreading awareness, but you're not afraid to have fun.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: And that was one of the things that I I enjoy about your content.
• 11:49
  SPEAKER_00: You're just you're having a good time and you're living your best life, but you're salt and peppering things in between.
• 11:55
  SPEAKER_00: How how has your life changed since you know?
• 11:59
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, you're getting follows, you know, you're getting you've got weird people like me, weird podcasters from the Midwest finding you.
• 12:06
  SPEAKER_00: How is your life changed in that way?
• 12:09
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I don't think you're weird, first of all.
• 12:11
  SPEAKER_00: Um, I'm totally weird.
• 12:13
  SPEAKER_01: I will say, well, maybe that's how we get along because I'm weird too.
• 12:17
  SPEAKER_01: Um I think the first of all.
• 12:24
  SPEAKER_01: I am like, I I don't know.
• 12:25
  SPEAKER_01: I'm just I just try to keep it real.
• 12:27
  SPEAKER_01: When you do what I do, I see such dark stuff every single day, and that's like you have to have the balance.
• 12:33
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, you cannot do your job.
• 12:35
  SPEAKER_01: Like, I could not do my job if I'm not happy in my personal life because my professional life is not happy all the time.
• 12:41
  SPEAKER_01: It is very sad, it is very traumatic, it is very it's just it's all the things that are sometimes really negative, and we have some good days, but we have way more bad days, so I think that's important.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but my life has changed.
• 12:57
  SPEAKER_01: Um originally did not plan on this becoming a a huge thing, but now that it has, I'm happy because I think that there's a there's a lack of information out there, and I just think that there's it's important.
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_01: I never had anybody to ask questions of how on Google, how to apply to law school?
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_01: What is the LSAT?
• 13:15
  SPEAKER_01: And now it's kind of you know a free place of knowledge for people.
• 13:18
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, obviously life has changed.
• 13:20
  SPEAKER_01: I've been on a lot of podcasts, um, I have made some amazing friends, but at the end of the day, I'm never gonna stop being a lawyer.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_01: Someone asked me, somebody asked me the other day, they said, Are you a full-time TikToker?
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No.
• 13:34
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I still go to work every day.
• 13:36
  SPEAKER_01: I am there before 8 a.m.
• 13:38
  SPEAKER_01: I don't leave until after 6 p.m.
• 13:39
  SPEAKER_01: and I work at home after I get home.
• 13:41
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I just do the TikTok stuff in between because I'm never gonna stop at least doing lawyering, at least part-time.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_01: That's just that's my passion, that's just who I am.
• 13:50
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I literally have a half-sleeve of tattoos about being a lawyer, so um, but it's changed a lot.
• 13:55
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's cool to like I've had people come up to me in public and they're like, I love you, like you are literally motivating me to like stay in law school.
• 14:02
  SPEAKER_01: I was worried about not being part of like the good old boys club, and so that literally brings tears to my eyes because you just never I never knew how many other people were going through the same things that I went through, but you there's just nobody to talk about it.
• 14:16
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, uh one of the things I noticed on your website is you wanted to use your platform to expose sexism and in the field in your field.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_00: So um, what motivates that?
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple years ago, um there's a couple, I mean, there's so many things, but there is two prime examples that I have that I have personally experienced.
• 14:41
  SPEAKER_01: It is one thing to be a woman just in general in the legal world, but to be an attractive woman or even semi-attractive, it is a whole different game.
• 14:49
  SPEAKER_01: And I'm not saying I'm like a model or a pageant, but it is it definitely affects the way people treat you.
• 14:56
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it shouldn't, and it's crazy.
• 14:59
  SPEAKER_01: So a couple years ago, I was actually on a case that to be fair to this gentleman, I had no business doing this case.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_01: When I took it, it was because my law partner was we had a client that was a pro bono opportunity, a juvenile that was being resentenced, he had a life sentence, and when the Supreme Court said those are unconstitutional, he went back to get resentenced and he was gonna have the public defender, and we had represented him before, and my boss was like, Rachel, it's gonna be easy.
• 15:27
  SPEAKER_01: Well, it was not easy, it was hundreds of hours.
• 15:31
  SPEAKER_01: Experts from all around the country.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it was insane, and it ended up being worth it.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_01: But during these, during this sentencing, two things happened to me.
• 15:40
  SPEAKER_01: Number one, the judge, who was the original judge, he literally asked me on the record how long I had been a lawyer, and if I needed to take advice from the male prosecutor, I could kindly wait after the court hearing and ask him questions.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_01: That was number one.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_01: Number two was actually during a break, the prosecutor put his hands on me.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, we were in a verbal of it was a it got very heated, not because of myself, because he I don't go to court with my partners very often, but this is a very, very big case.
• 16:13
  SPEAKER_01: So they came and they weren't sitting with me at you know at the at the table, but he was in the audience and he had to literally come up during a break and remove this.
• 16:22
  SPEAKER_01: He's 50 years older than me, 30 years older than me.
• 16:25
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know, but it doesn't matter.
• 16:26
  SPEAKER_01: He literally put his both of his hands on my shoulders, and I literally just looked at him and I was like, This is okay, here we are.
• 16:34
  SPEAKER_01: And that was number one.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_01: And number two is one that I get all the time, and I've I've gotten a lot of feedback from other female lawyers that they go through the same thing.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's just being mistaken for being not a lawyer.
• 16:44
  SPEAKER_01: So I get mistaken.
• 16:45
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a defendant?
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a witness?
• 16:47
  SPEAKER_01: Are you a victim?
• 16:48
  SPEAKER_01: Are you the court reporter?
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_01: That's the number one.
• 16:52
  SPEAKER_01: And I try to like chalk it up as like I have a rolling bag, but my rolling bag literally says Rachel Reese, O'Brien Hatfield Reese, like it literally says like criminal defense lawyer on it.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_01: And it's just kind of like the stereotypes that an attractive female or a female in general cannot be in that position.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_01: They just assume the worst, which you know, people come back and they're like, men are like, oh, well, that doesn't really happen.
• 17:20
  SPEAKER_01: But a lot of men talk about that it does happen and they've seen it happen.
• 17:24
  SPEAKER_01: And being someone in a firm where, so I am in a firm where there's three partners.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_01: Of course, our managing partner is a male, but my other partner is a female, and constantly people are like, Where's my lawyer?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Like, are you the lawyer?
• 17:36
  SPEAKER_01: Or where is the where is when is the male showing up?
• 17:40
  SPEAKER_01: And the crazy part is is that my line of work is very specific that if he came to court, he wouldn't, they're just it's very different.
• 17:49
  SPEAKER_01: You wouldn't want him to be there.
• 17:51
  SPEAKER_01: He's amazing at his job, his aspect of what we do, but I'm amazing at my aspect, and that's why I'm a partner.
• 17:58
  SPEAKER_01: So that it's just it's crazy to see it like and experience it, but then to see other women also talk about it.
• 18:05
  SPEAKER_01: And people just people wanted to say that doesn't happen, and it does, and it's not just in the legal world, it's in you know, doctors, it's in every profession.
• 18:12
  SPEAKER_01: Like I've seen just so much enlightenment this year and information out there about all the fields, like construction, business management, doctors.
• 18:21
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just crazy, but yep.
• 18:24
  SPEAKER_00: I was I was gonna go there next.
• 18:26
  SPEAKER_00: Um, do you think because of the state of um because of the socio political status of the times we're living in, it might be a little bit more heightened right now?
• 18:42
  SPEAKER_00: Because you've got like you've got five different generations in the workplace, and this is the first time in US history that's ever happened during times where, you know, we we are socio-politically divided to a certain extent.
• 18:56
  SPEAKER_00: So is is that like compounding the issue or exacerbating the issue to a certain set extent?
• 19:03
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know if it's it definitely plays a role.
• 19:08
  SPEAKER_01: Um I don't know, I've had this, I've had this discussion with so many individuals in my life, because I I always wanna, you know, I always I'm always open to the other side because I love to play devil's advocate with people who males in particular that might see it differently.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but I I definitely think that it does contribute to the problem.
• 19:27
  SPEAKER_01: I d I definitely think that it does.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_01: I don't know to what extent.
• 19:31
  SPEAKER_01: I unfortunately think it's a long time until it's not there at all.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_01: Um which just sucks.
• 19:38
  SPEAKER_01: I mean it's 2021, people.
• 19:40
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right.
• 19:42
  SPEAKER_01: I just it just it just blows my mind still.
• 19:44
  SPEAKER_01: And it's the fact that it has to become an issue that it's all of a sudden a bigger issue, it just is kind of crazy to me still.
• 19:53
  SPEAKER_01: That's yeah, it just I don't even know.
• 19:55
  SPEAKER_00: Being somebody that f fixates so much on pop culture, I you know, I have viewed it as a roller coaster ride.
• 20:02
  SPEAKER_00: Just when you think things are getting better, they go downhill again.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, and then it's a climb back uphill, and then it's downhill again, and it's it's like almost like it's a never-ending cycle, and it's you know, it's all aspects.
• 20:15
  SPEAKER_00: It's you know, gender, sexual orientation, race.
• 20:19
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, I was just gonna say that it's all the big social issues, it's always gonna be a thing like that, I think.
• 20:24
  SPEAKER_01: And unfortunately, I don't know when.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_01: Apparently, we just love to be divided on these huge issues that should be a no-brainer.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 20:32
  SPEAKER_01: And that just blows my mind still.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_01: I hope it's better one day in the future for the next generations.
• 20:39
  SPEAKER_00: So there's uh obviously a lot of stress in what you do, the clients that you work with, you have to see, hear, witness some pretty dark things.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: One of my best friends, um, he used to work in um child protective services.
• 20:56
  SPEAKER_00: And so I know that could go into some dark places.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_00: How do you decompress if something goes dark?
• 21:05
  SPEAKER_01: Um, I just had this conversation today with my friend because she literally called me hysterical about a case she's working on that is so dark.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, I don't know if I can do this.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: So the first thing that I always remember is the basic thing that I tell myself anyway, is I try to separate the I just try to focus, not separate, but I focus on the legal aspect of it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_01: I don't, you know, I get so emotionally invested, I'm not even gonna sit here and lie.
• 21:31
  SPEAKER_01: I have a client if he ever listens to this, he'll know who he is.
• 21:36
  SPEAKER_01: He had an incident with his wife, she unfortunately died, and it was the first dead body that I ever saw was in a photo.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_01: And I cried, and I have been on his case now for literally seven years, and I will never stop fighting for him because what happened to him is so crazy.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_01: But every time I work on that case, I get I get so upset because it's so emotional, and there's just so much like tragedy with it.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_01: And it's really hard to it's hard to forget that when you kind of like leave work at the end of the day.
• 22:06
  SPEAKER_01: And I think that's why a lot of lawyers actually go through so many issues with mental health and abuse and things like that, substance abuse, because it is hard to come down from that and it's hard to find a way to decompress.
• 22:18
  SPEAKER_01: I have found for me, like today, I literally went and rollerbladed it for eight miles.
• 22:22
  SPEAKER_01: I was exhausted, I did not want to do it.
• 22:24
  SPEAKER_01: But for me, it's like the one way that I can leave all the craziness from work at work and kind of separate work from my home.
• 22:34
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I've always like found exercise.
• 22:37
  SPEAKER_01: Honestly, TikTok has been a really big blessing to me in the craziest way because I I can focus on the positive of spreading education, spreading information.
• 22:47
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I've just always been like a big like, I don't know, I have like a bunch of weird hobbies.
• 22:51
  SPEAKER_01: I like read at night, drink wine at night, you know, not excessively most of the time.
• 22:58
  SPEAKER_01: But you know, just finding things that you like and that take your mind off of the bad.
• 23:04
  SPEAKER_01: Like I'm super, I'm not good, but like I'm super into like painting and like anything that is kind of like uses uses your brain in a way that it's not gonna think about what you did that day.
• 23:16
  SPEAKER_01: And it's hard to find those things, but once you find them, it definitely makes a difference because my friends who are attorneys who have those things are a lot happier than my friends that don't.
• 23:25
  SPEAKER_01: And the friends that don't, I also go to therapy.
• 23:28
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, that's a big one.
• 23:29
  SPEAKER_01: Go to therapy every week because my poor therapist has seen more stuff.
• 23:33
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, poor girl.
• 23:35
  SPEAKER_01: I felt for her.
• 23:37
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but it's just nice to talk about it and to be unjudged and to get the affirmation it's okay to feel feelings, but then to remember why you're doing it in the first place.
• 23:47
  SPEAKER_01: So just finding things that you like that take your mind off of it have definitely been extremely helpful to me.
• 23:52
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not one to jump on or piggyback social issues constantly, but self-care and being transparent about your mental health is definitely one that even to the point where you know my wife and my friends are always like, Man, you're just oversharing on on the social media or you're oversharing on the podcast, and it's like, no, this is he this is who I am, you know, take it or leave it.
• 24:14
  SPEAKER_00: Yes, this is this is my form of therapy.
• 24:17
  SPEAKER_01: And people like that, they like the transparency because it's relatable to them because people have issues that we don't know about, and when they hear someone else talk about it, for them it's a form of therapy.
• 24:26
  SPEAKER_01: They're like, oh my god, I'm not crazy, or I'm not the only one that feels this way.
• 24:31
  SPEAKER_01: And it's it's hard for a lot of people to seek therapy or just to admit those things, and it's kind of like the affirmation that they need that they're not alone.
• 24:39
  SPEAKER_00: Right, right, absolutely.
• 24:42
  SPEAKER_00: So, segueing into the next topic, you've launched your own podcast, and let's talk about it.
• 24:49
  SPEAKER_00: It has a fantastic title.
• 24:53
  SPEAKER_00: So it does share it.
• 24:57
  SPEAKER_01: So it's kind of I'm laughing because I'm literally finishing my half sleeve next weekend, and one of the last parts of it, which is kind of like what sparked the name, is I got sworn into the United States Supreme Court a couple years ago, and when I tell you that I cried, I was 10 feet away from Ruth Vader Ginsberg.
• 25:18
  SPEAKER_01: Like I literally was 10 feet away from her.
• 25:22
  SPEAKER_01: So when she passed, I was devastated.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure.
• 25:26
  SPEAKER_01: It's because I mean, it not just because of like her role model for like women in general, but just like through the legal system and just her the her strength through literally to the very end.
• 25:39
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, dear lord, if I can be in this system for that long, gosh, bless my soul.
• 25:45
  SPEAKER_01: But she was great.
• 25:47
  SPEAKER_01: So when she passed, it was super hard.
• 25:49
  SPEAKER_01: So when I was figuring out my sleeve, um, my tattoo artist was like, listen, the last piece is we have to do something like with a quote.
• 25:56
  SPEAKER_01: And so I was like, I don't want a quote, okay, that's lame.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_01: And then I was like, but it's not lame if it says I fucking dissent.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_01: Because like, you know, her whole thing is I dissent.
• 26:05
  SPEAKER_01: So I was like, you know, that's not my fault.
• 26:07
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I need to add a customer in there because that's just me.
• 26:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and it just kind of highlights how much I dissent about the whole system.
• 26:15
  SPEAKER_01: So one day I was with my friend Adriana, who is my best friend from law school, and we met day one, literally day one of law school.
• 26:25
  SPEAKER_01: We kind of had a falling out the last couple years, but randomly in a time of my life where I needed her more than ever, and we had not spoken in a year.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_01: She called me one day, she was like, Are you okay?
• 26:34
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, No.
• 26:35
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, I just had this feeling you weren't.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_01: And she was like, I'm coming to get you.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_01: So we went, we had drinks all day long, and her girlfriend was sitting there at the bar with us, and she was like, Y'all's banter is crazy.
• 26:47
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, You guys do the same thing, but your point of view is very different.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_01: Um, how you handled it is very different.
• 26:53
  SPEAKER_01: She's like, You guys should do a podcast.
• 26:55
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, You're crazy.
• 26:56
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, My TikTok fans have been asking me to do the podcast for a year.
• 27:00
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, I'm not doing that, I got no time.
• 27:02
  SPEAKER_01: So then by the end of the night, we literally decided to do a podcast.
• 27:07
  SPEAKER_01: So we called it We Fucking Descent.
• 27:10
  SPEAKER_01: Um, because she does what I do, but with Death Row inmates only.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_01: Oh wow.
• 27:15
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and so it's, you know, the fucking we turned down a little bit.
• 27:18
  SPEAKER_01: There's an asterisk in the U.
• 27:20
  SPEAKER_01: So RBG, I'm sorry.
• 27:22
  SPEAKER_01: We're not trying to, you know, slander your statement, but you know, it just kind of brings a little bit more strength to it.
• 27:27
  SPEAKER_01: So that's kind of how it all and it happened so quickly.
• 27:30
  SPEAKER_01: This is literally less than a month ago.
• 27:31
  SPEAKER_01: We literally we were drunk and we booked our we booked a time at this place where we can record.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_01: Next thing you know, we're going to record, and this weekend we launched it.
• 27:42
  SPEAKER_01: So it's just been kind of insane.
• 27:45
  SPEAKER_01: You know, it we're both so busy with work, we're like, why did we do this?
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_01: But the the feedback from lawyers in general, people who are in law school, people who want to be lawyers about the issues that we talk about and the excitement for like the you know, we're probably gonna get ourselves in trouble.
• 28:00
  SPEAKER_01: There's a lot of really uncomfortable issues that we're gonna talk about, but I think that we know how to handle them in a way that's educational and it's just kind of insightful.
• 28:09
  SPEAKER_01: People don't really understand how messed up it really is, and we see I mean she literally sees the worst, but I see a lot more of the worst because I have a lot more clients than her.
• 28:22
  SPEAKER_01: But we could write a whole damn novel, we could write a whole series of books, all the shit.
• 28:26
  SPEAKER_00: Right.
• 28:27
  SPEAKER_00: So it happens so fast.
• 28:29
  SPEAKER_00: Have you kind of had time to hash out the details about where you're gonna go with it?
• 28:34
  SPEAKER_00: Like, what's the regularity of your episodes going to be?
• 28:37
  SPEAKER_01: So we are gonna do, and this is my this is kind of insane.
• 28:40
  SPEAKER_01: I don't even know.
• 28:41
  SPEAKER_01: You should probably give me some advice on this.
• 28:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do ever we're gonna start with two a month every other Sunday, which and saying it all loud sounds insane.
• 28:50
  SPEAKER_01: Um, but you know, people are already like when is your next one coming out?
• 28:55
  SPEAKER_01: So I feel like at least in the beginning, it's important to kind of use that momentum to kind of keep it going.
• 29:00
  SPEAKER_01: So we're filming our second, we're recording our second one on Monday of next week, and then we're literally releasing it the next Sunday.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_01: We have a great producer that we've that she knew from all her artsy fartsy stuff that thankfully is so wonderful.
• 29:12
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, he is I literally was like, you are a blessing from God.
• 29:16
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and he's super like he has a full-time job.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_01: This is like just passion on the outside, and he's like, I will be here with whatever you guys need.
• 29:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I was like, great, say less.
• 29:24
  SPEAKER_01: So we've kind of hashed out all that.
• 29:26
  SPEAKER_01: We're gonna do every other week, every other Sunday, because you know, Sunday, people go to work on Monday, they want something to listen to, and that was we've done pretty well this week.
• 29:35
  SPEAKER_01: And we've we have laid out kind of what we want to talk about.
• 29:40
  SPEAKER_01: Um, it's gonna be a lot of a lot of educational stuff just because a lot, again, people don't really have anywhere else to go.
• 29:46
  SPEAKER_01: There's not a lot of law podcasts that talk about this, ironically.
• 29:50
  SPEAKER_01: We're also gonna talk about what I do, what she does, stories, horror stories, funny stories, all the things.
• 29:56
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah, so I'm excited.
• 29:57
  SPEAKER_00: Good, good.
• 29:58
  SPEAKER_00: I'm excited for you.
• 29:59
  SPEAKER_00: So um, is it just gonna be the two of you, or are you thinking about are you exploring the idea of adding guests on the show?
• 30:05
  SPEAKER_01: Or it's so funny because we went to law school together, obviously, and all of our friends from law school are already messaging us like, I better be a guest.
• 30:12
  SPEAKER_01: And then we're like, okay, we're gonna do a guest, like eventually.
• 30:14
  SPEAKER_01: I think eventually, like I think that we have enough information, honestly, to talk for I don't I can't even tell you how many episodes.
• 30:22
  SPEAKER_01: And I think it's important for us to kind of like set the base before we have guests on.
• 30:25
  SPEAKER_01: But eventually I think it'll be super cool to have guests.
• 30:27
  SPEAKER_01: Like, honestly, I have clients that have gotten out of prison because they were wrongfully convicted, but we've talked about having them on, which I think would be super cool because they're awesome and they live in Tampa still, and I talk to them all the time.
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so I think that eventually we will have guests, but it's gonna be a while.
• 30:43
  SPEAKER_01: We're not as cool as you yet.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not that cool.
• 30:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm not that cool at all.
• 30:48
  SPEAKER_00: And and mine happened kind of fast as well.
• 30:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um, you know, obviously 2020 was primed for people to start podcasts, and 2021 was primed for people to solidify said podcasts.
• 31:00
  SPEAKER_00: I I come from the music sector, and like I haven't done anything creative for so long, and it was just it was killing me.
• 31:08
  SPEAKER_00: So I had the same thing.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: It was friends.
• 31:09
  SPEAKER_00: They're just like, you know, if you started a podcast, we'd listen to it.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_01: You have a good voice.
• 31:13
  SPEAKER_01: You have like the voice of a podcast.
• 31:16
  SPEAKER_01: You really are.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_00: So it was it was just like, you know, so many years in the music business, I was like, well, I can exploit every single connection I made in all my years of playing and promoting and everything, and it's been a blessing, and it's exactly how you started too.
• 31:32
  SPEAKER_00: Is I was like, okay, I'm gonna do this bi-weekly, and then people started, hey, you know, I might be interested, and then it became kind of weekly, so it's like this sporadic thing that I'll either no, don't tell me this weekly.
• 31:44
  SPEAKER_01: I don't have time for this.
• 31:46
  SPEAKER_00: Well, just just stick to a plan, form a plan and stick to it.
• 31:49
  SPEAKER_00: If you fail the plan, you plan to fail, right?
• 31:52
  unknown: I know, I know.
• 31:54
  SPEAKER_01: That's that's the hardest part is two lawyers' schedules trying to even figure out a time we can go and record is insane.
• 32:01
  SPEAKER_01: So eventually, you know, we'll we'll we'll get our own stuff.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_01: But there's this awesome place in St.
• 32:06
  SPEAKER_01: Petersburg that like is a little warehouse and you go and they record it for you.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_00: So oh, that's awesome.
• 32:11
  SPEAKER_01: Um, yeah, it's awesome, but it's it's hard to get everybody's schedules intact, and then you have to figure out when to edit it.
• 32:17
  SPEAKER_01: And we have a lot of issues with like attorney client privilege.
• 32:19
  SPEAKER_01: We ain't I literally listened to it more times and edited it.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_01: I could have told you every word that was gonna be said because we listened to it ten times because especially with her, she's a government worker, so she has a lot of confidentiality that she has to worry about.
• 32:32
  SPEAKER_01: My stuff's not as it not a big deal, but yeah, hers is you know, she it's a it's a risk.
• 32:39
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, and it's it's always a challenge determining how long you should go or how short you should go to.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_01: I know.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_00: I'm in the sweet spot right now where my episodes are about half hour to an hour long, but that very first episode was a two-hour long episode, but it encompassed it encompassed it.
• 32:57
  SPEAKER_00: I had past bandmates on, and we talked about the band that didn't make it, and that that was it, there was a lot to cover.
• 33:04
  SPEAKER_01: Okay, I need to I need to listen to this.
• 33:06
  SPEAKER_01: I need to listen to it.
• 33:08
  SPEAKER_00: Funny enough, it was like, you know, it was almost like a therapy session in and of itself.
• 33:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yes, it is.
• 33:15
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, so a lot of people were messaging me and they were like, man, that episode is fantastic.
• 33:19
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't expect I, you know, the back-handed compliment.
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_00: It's like, I didn't expect this to be so damn good, but it was awesome.
• 33:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I was like, oh, well, thanks.
• 33:28
  SPEAKER_01: I mean, I cried in our first episode, so I mean it is very therapeutic, so I get it.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_00: I saw the video.
• 33:36
  SPEAKER_01: Literally, I was like, well, to be fair, we drank a lot of trulys before we recorded because I was like, if we're gonna talk about this and like be our genuine selves and not be nervous, like we need to have a couple of cocktails.
• 33:45
  SPEAKER_01: She was like, Oh, say less.
• 33:46
  SPEAKER_01: We literally had a case of truly in the studio with us.
• 33:48
  SPEAKER_01: I was like, all right, let's go.
• 33:51
  SPEAKER_00: But it's good.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's that type of content needs to be out there.
• 33:55
  SPEAKER_00: And that's that's you know, going to your earlier point about the internet and having inf so much information at your fingertips, like, there has to be stuff like this out there.
• 34:03
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be something for everybody.
• 34:05
  SPEAKER_00: There has to be the story of the the failed rock star that just wants to meet people and connect with people and show the world how awesome people still are, even if at times the world doesn't seem like the most awesome place, right?
• 34:19
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, but uh remind me, after we're done recording, uh I have somebody I I'd like to connect you with.
• 34:25
  SPEAKER_00: So trust me, it'll be good.
• 34:27
  SPEAKER_01: So all right, I love it.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_00: So, Rachel, where can everybody find you at online?
• 34:35
  SPEAKER_01: Um, so they can find me on TikTok, obviously.
• 34:38
  SPEAKER_01: Um, my name on there is Rach Reese3.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_01: It's R-E-S-E, which is actually not how my name is spelled, but that's a whole nother story.
• 34:48
  SPEAKER_01: Um, same with Instagram, they can find me on there.
• 34:51
  SPEAKER_01: Um, we have, you know, we fucking descend.
• 34:54
  SPEAKER_01: We have our own Instagram now.
• 34:55
  SPEAKER_01: It's pretty cool.
• 34:56
  SPEAKER_01: And those are the main two places that I am online that you can find me.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_00: Excellent.
• 35:00
  SPEAKER_01: Um, and I try to respond to DMs more on Instagram.
• 35:04
  SPEAKER_01: Actually, that's why.
• 35:05
  SPEAKER_01: I don't respond at all to DMs on TikTok because I just turn them off because my personal life is a little crazy right now.
• 35:11
  SPEAKER_01: And people started coming at me super hard on TikTok.
• 35:13
  SPEAKER_01: So if you want to message me, you can on Instagram.
• 35:16
  SPEAKER_01: Otherwise, on TikTok, you can't unless you're my friend.
• 35:19
  SPEAKER_00: So awesome.
• 35:21
  SPEAKER_00: So that podcast is We Fucking Descent.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_00: You can find it on Spotify or just do a simple Google search.
• 35:29
  SPEAKER_00: I'm sure that podcast platform will pop up all over the place.
• 35:33
  SPEAKER_00: And if you are not listening already, do your say do yourself a favor and take a few moments and listen to it.
• 35:41
  SPEAKER_00: Thanks for doing the show.
• 35:43
  SPEAKER_00: I appreciate it.
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_01: Oh, thanks for having me.
• 35:45
  SPEAKER_01: I love it.
• 35:46
  SPEAKER_01: Love to spread the spread the word.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: Big thanks to Rach for doing the show tonight.
• 35:51
  SPEAKER_00: She did this on short notice.
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_00: I reached out to her on Monday and she agreed to do it tonight.
• 35:56
  SPEAKER_00: That was awesome.
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_00: You can follow her on TikTok, R-H-C-H-R-E-S-E 3.
• 36:03
  SPEAKER_00: Also, find her podcast at WeFucking Descent on Spotify and all podcasting platforms.
• 36:11
  SPEAKER_00: Hey everybody, while you're out there checking out content, please follow COD on the mic, on TikTok, on Instagram, on Facebook, on Twitter, wherever the hell you can find me.
• 36:22
  SPEAKER_00: Please keep supporting the show by giving me your five-star reviews on the Apple Podcast app.
• 36:28
  SPEAKER_00: It is very helpful and will help push me higher in the rankings so more people can discover it.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_00: Hey friends, things are starting to get scary out there again.
• 36:39
  SPEAKER_00: I'd say don't panic, but don't be nonchalant about this either.
• 36:42
  SPEAKER_00: This has been Caught on the Mic with Michael Clark.
• 36:46
  SPEAKER_00: I'm Michael Clark.
• 36:47
  SPEAKER_00: Until next time.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_00: Thank you.