Latest / Prophecy Watchers / Fallen Angels, Demons and the Origin of the Nephilim | Mondo Gonzales

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Fallen Angels, Demons and the Origin of the Nephilim | Mondo Gonzales · Prophecy Watchers

• 0:00
  Speaker 1: You get to the New Testament and you read, now
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  Speaker 1: you are the sons of God. You are the children
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  Speaker 1: of God. And God has decided to co-rule with us.
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  Speaker 1: So everything comes full circle. It's amazing.
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  Speaker 2: But yeah, go ahead.
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  Speaker 3: No, that is the key right there.
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  Speaker 2: I think that I did a presentation recently on this,
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  Speaker 2: trying to help people understand that when we come to
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  Speaker 2: the New Testament, and it's primarily Paul, is using the phraseology,
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  Speaker 2: sons of God, we should immediately go, wait, wait, wait,
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  Speaker 2: read it in an Old Testament context. Because there's only
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  Speaker 2: one place in Hosea chapter one, verse 10, where it's
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  Speaker 2: speaking there about sons of the living God, but that's
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  Speaker 2: a different phrase.
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  Speaker 3: It's a different phrase.
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  Speaker 2: And so when you take the phrase in Genesis six, two,
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  Speaker 2: and four, as well as you mentioned in Psalm 89,
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  Speaker 2: there's another very close phrase, Job chapter one, Job chapter two,
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  Speaker 2: Job 38. Those are the places where this language, this
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  Speaker 2: very specific collocation is what they call.
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  Speaker 3: It in Hebrew, in Hebrew grammar.
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  Speaker 2: But when it appears in the New Testament, Paul is
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  Speaker 2: telling us, I want you to understand your role as
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  Speaker 2: a new covenant believer, that it's going along with what
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  Speaker 2: the assignment was of those sons of God in the
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  Speaker 2: Old Testament. And so when you come to realize that,
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  Speaker 2: that the sons of God in the Old Testament were
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  Speaker 2: part of the council that was ruling, we know in
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  Speaker 2: Daniel chapter four, The watchers were giving decrees. The word
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  Speaker 2: watcher is basically synonymous with the term son of God.
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  Speaker 3: And so they're decreeing, they're ruling, they're reigning. And that
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  Speaker 3: is our future.
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  Speaker 2: It is phenomenal what the church and human believers get
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  Speaker 2: to be a part of and basically to join. Because
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  Speaker 2: I don't think all the sons of God failed. There's
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  Speaker 2: probably still some faithful ones. Yeah. We get to rejoin
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  Speaker 2: the council that originally in Genesis 1 and 2, God
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  Speaker 2: wanted us to rule over this earth.
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  Speaker 4: Yeah.
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  Speaker 3: Absolutely.
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  Speaker 4: I think it's funny he says, not all of them failed.
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  Speaker 4: It's got to be terrible to be a part of
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  Speaker 4: that group.
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  Speaker 3: You know, come on, man. You know, like I've been
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  Speaker 3: sitting here the whole time, God, doing it.
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  Speaker 4: But now I'm part of the sons of God that failed,
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  Speaker 4: you know.
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  Speaker 3: We want to be fair. We want to be fair.
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  Speaker 3: We appreciate the loyal ones. They're our brothers in arms,
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  Speaker 3: so to speak.
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  Speaker 4: Somewhere up there, like a single tear of joy just
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  Speaker 4: went down the cheek of that son of God, which
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  Speaker 4: is great. No, but you know, if you know when
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  Speaker 4: they're referenced and what they're referenced in, they're referenced for
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  Speaker 4: doing something bad. And most Christians don't like to talk
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  Speaker 4: about angels having sex. I get it. It's not really
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  Speaker 4: a Sunday school favorite for the felt board. Um, but
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  Speaker 4: you know, they, they came down. Why was it so
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  Speaker 4: necessary for, uh, what happens next with the creation of
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  Speaker 4: the Nephilim? Why was it necessary for these beings to
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  Speaker 4: come down and use human women to gestate that progeny?
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  Speaker 2: You know, it's, yeah, this goes back and we, we appreciate, uh, our, our,
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  Speaker 2: our fearless leader, uh, Gary Sturman, because Gary Sturman, uh,
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  Speaker 2: you know, he, he has talked a lot about Genesis
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  Speaker 2: three 15 and what he has called.
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  Speaker 3: The seed war. And so you see there, this, this, this,
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  Speaker 3: this enmity, we, we have it right there.
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  Speaker 2: That you have this enmity between basically the serpent and humanity,
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  Speaker 2: certainly the woman in context, but the rest of humanity.
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  Speaker 2: And so when you look at the flow of what Satan,
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  Speaker 2: the enemy, is doing, you come to Genesis 6, and
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  Speaker 2: you see the sons of God coming down and mating
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  Speaker 2: with human women and seeking to pollute humanity. There's a
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  Speaker 2: couple ways to look at it. One of them is
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  Speaker 2: that the rulership of humanity— let me say, rephrase it.
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  Speaker 2: The rulership of the earth, the dominion of the earth
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  Speaker 2: was given to Adam and his progeny.
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  Speaker 3: Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So humanity, because as you guys know, Adam comes from
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  Speaker 2: the word, the word for ground.
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  Speaker 3: Okay. So we're, we're earth ground. We're, we're made of
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  Speaker 3: the dirt. We, and biologically that is true. Okay.
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  Speaker 2: So, but in order to usurp that, uh, basically authority, uh,
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  Speaker 2: Humanity needs to be a part of it. So you
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  Speaker 2: wonder whether the angels, knowing that they don't have the
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  Speaker 2: ability to usurp mankind's authority, they're like, well, let's create,
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  Speaker 2: let's get involved. Let's create our own humanity, our own
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  Speaker 2: form of humanity. And so they came down mating with
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  Speaker 2: human women and creating these Nephilim upstream.
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  Speaker 3: I mean, this is so clear.
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  Speaker 2: It's interesting today in modern academia, they shy away from
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  Speaker 2: that supernatural view. But yet if you go back, And
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  Speaker 2: look at the history. It was a view of the
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  Speaker 2: early church. It was a view of the second temple period. Clearly,
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  Speaker 2: all the Jewish views prior to about the second century,
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  Speaker 2: they all believed in a supernatural view.
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  Speaker 3: So Josephus, et cetera, et cetera.
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  Speaker 2: It wasn't until Africanus and then later Augustine that they
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  Speaker 2: began to shift that. And then you see it change
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  Speaker 2: in the rabbis. They began to shift things probably about
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  Speaker 2: the second century or so. And part of it was,
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  Speaker 2: that's a whole rabbit trail, but part of it was
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  Speaker 2: to reject the supernatural origination of Jesus and his divinity.
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  Speaker 3: And so they needed to get rid of this.
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  Speaker 2: Idea that you could even have this as a possibility.
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  Speaker 2: So Satan and his plan comes down, seeks to do this.
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  Speaker 2: Of course, God was upset. And then we know, according
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  Speaker 2: to Genesis 6-4, that it happened after the flood.
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  Speaker 4: Yes, that's right.
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  Speaker 1: I love that because a lot of people try to
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  Speaker 1: take that passage. And I've heard so many theories. Oh,
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  Speaker 1: maybe some Nephilim survived or, you know, maybe it was
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  Speaker 1: just a regional flood and that's how they survived. Or
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  Speaker 1: maybe there was impure bloodline and Ham's wife and all this.
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  Speaker 1: But it clearly says in Genesis 6, 4, if you
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  Speaker 1: read the Hebrew, because it's a double sentence structure, before
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  Speaker 1: and after. After what? After when the sons of God
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  Speaker 1: came down again. to mate with the daughters of men
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  Speaker 1: and create this race of giants. So we see what
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  Speaker 1: people call two incursions. This incursion after the flood, we
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  Speaker 1: read about more giants in the Old Testament after a
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  Speaker 1: flood than we get that pre-flood giant scenario. We see
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  Speaker 1: a lot in Canaan. We see the children of Israel
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  Speaker 1: having to battle and contest with these giants all the time.
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  Speaker 1: Could you give us some characteristics of pre- and post-flood giants,
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  Speaker 1: you know, their height, you know, what evidence do we
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  Speaker 1: know of their physical features, what they look like, what
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  Speaker 1: was their limitations?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, absolutely.
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  Speaker 2: I love looking at the theological and even historical and
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  Speaker 2: linguistic context because when we, it's tradition that Moses wrote Genesis,
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  Speaker 2: but I think it's a very strong indication. We also know, again,
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  Speaker 2: that we have the situation that the word Nephilim appears
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  Speaker 2: twice in Genesis six, four and numbers 1333. So what,
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  Speaker 2: what are those two? Well, one of them is, is, um,
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  Speaker 2: is talking about before the flood. And the other one
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  Speaker 2: is talking about the giants, the Nephilim that they're looking
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  Speaker 2: at observing, right? So this, this brings you to, um, where, um, Moses,
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  Speaker 2: of course, in the book of Numbers, he's writing about
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  Speaker 2: the 12 spies.
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  Speaker 3: They go into the land. They see these.
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  Speaker 2: Nephilim that are there. And so Moses is writing down
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  Speaker 2: what their response was. We saw the Nephilim and we
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  Speaker 2: saw the Anakim, the sons of the Nephilim there.
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  Speaker 3: And they're big. We're like grasshoppers in their sight. So Moses.
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  Speaker 2: is writing, like, I'll say it this way. Who's Moses
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  Speaker 2: writing the book of Genesis to? Well, I believe most
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  Speaker 2: likely he's writing it during the wilderness wandering. They got
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  Speaker 2: 40 years. And as he's writing this book for the
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  Speaker 2: people at that time, they're reading Genesis 6-4 in the
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  Speaker 2: context of, hey, we just saw those guys.
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  Speaker 3: We saw the Nephilim. We've seen them in person.
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  Speaker 2: And so Moses is writing, hey, by the way, in
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  Speaker 2: Genesis 6-4, the Nephilim were in those days, the Nephilim
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  Speaker 2: were there before and after the flood. So the ones
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  Speaker 2: that you saw OK, they're connected. They're similar to what
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  Speaker 2: you have there. And in Genesis six, four, the way
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  Speaker 2: it reads again in Hebrew is that if you see
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  Speaker 2: a Nephilim, the only time this happened, it's an adverbial clause.
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  Speaker 2: It happens whenever. How do you get a Nephilim? It
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  Speaker 2: happens whenever the sons of God come into human women.
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  Speaker 2: It's a very universal statement in the in the Hebrew
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  Speaker 2: grammar there. And so as we see that later, we
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  Speaker 2: see in Genesis 6, all we have there is that
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  Speaker 2: they're called gibberim.
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  Speaker 3: These are mighty men, men of renown, men of name
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  Speaker 3: is what it says literally. So we don't get any
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  Speaker 3: physical descriptions there.
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  Speaker 2: But when you come to, again, Numbers 13, now they're
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  Speaker 2: talking about we were like grasshoppers in their sight.
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  Speaker 3: They're freaking out.
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  Speaker 2: And then if you go to Deuteronomy chapter two and three,
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  Speaker 2: you see the connections with the Rephaim, the Zamzumim, the Abim,
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  Speaker 2: and all of them are described as tall and large.
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  Speaker 2: And you have these tribes, you have the Anakim, which
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  Speaker 2: are large as well. And so no doubt what they
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  Speaker 2: were seeing in Numbers 13 there in the land, not
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  Speaker 2: only that, but if you follow the chronology, as I'll
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  Speaker 2: say it this way, as the Israelites were coming, they
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  Speaker 2: were getting ready to go into the land, but they're
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  Speaker 2: making their way from Kadesh Barnea in that area, and
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  Speaker 2: they're making their way around the eastern side up the
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  Speaker 2: Dead Sea in Deuteronomy 2 and 3. And God's like, hey,
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  Speaker 2: those were the Zabzimim. They were huge and tall, but
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  Speaker 2: God took care of them before. You don't have to
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  Speaker 2: worry about them. Oh, those are the, I mean, you
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  Speaker 2: don't have to worry about those. They live down in Seir.
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  Speaker 2: You don't have to worry. God took care of those.
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  Speaker 2: But these other ones, Og, you know, you're going to
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  Speaker 2: have to take care of him. And so 13 feet, right?
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  Speaker 2: His bed stand is 13 feet. So you have these
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  Speaker 2: descriptions undeniably. at least certainly post-flood, that these were very
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  Speaker 2: large people.
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  Speaker 4: That's crazy to me that as believers, we kind of
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  Speaker 4: give up so easily. Apparently, these guys don't, right? I
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  Speaker 4: didn't know the little engine that could. They're like, oh yeah,
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  Speaker 4: knock us out of the flood. We're going to come
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  Speaker 4: back down again. I was like, how come they have
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  Speaker 4: all of the perseverance? So you, you counted those scriptures
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  Speaker 4: where we see it talk about that. But then there's
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  Speaker 4: other books that describe things like the Book of Enoch,
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  Speaker 4: which isn't scripture, obviously, but we get descriptions in the
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  Speaker 4: Book of Enoch. We have all of these different angels,
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  Speaker 4: fallen angels, demons, Nephilim. For somebody who doesn't understand, it
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  Speaker 4: can be mind-boggling. What's the difference between a fallen angel
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  Speaker 4: and a demon?
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  Speaker 1: Evil spirit, yeah.
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  Speaker 2: You know, I really appreciate that because that is often
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  Speaker 2: the misunderstanding. So fallen angels are not demons, okay? There's
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  Speaker 2: a very clear distinction, not only in the Bible, but
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  Speaker 2: if you look in the Old Testament scholarly literature, it's
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  Speaker 2: crystal clear that they understood. But today we kind of,
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  Speaker 2: maybe in New Testament believers today, Maybe we're not as
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  Speaker 2: learned in the Old Testament language or culture. And so
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  Speaker 2: we kind of just blend them together. And in fact,
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  Speaker 2: the New Testament sometimes is less precise than the Old
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  Speaker 2: Testament is as it relates to some of the distinctions.
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  Speaker 2: So for example, as we mentioned, the sons of God.
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  Speaker 2: In the Old Testament, they are never called angels, ever.
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  Speaker 2: They are a species, the sons of God. For example,
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  Speaker 2: I think that The sons of God are different than
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  Speaker 2: the cherubim. I agree. They're different than the seraphim. And
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  Speaker 2: so you have these different, I would call, species, I guess,
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  Speaker 2: of non-human intelligences. But when you come to the New Testament,
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  Speaker 2: especially Jude 6 or 2 Peter 2, 4, it just
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  Speaker 2: says the angels that sinned. So it's kind of throwing
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  Speaker 2: this kind of generic label, but again, less precise. But
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  Speaker 2: when we come to the Old Testament, we see that
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  Speaker 2: the sons of God are these very, I would say,
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  Speaker 2: almost royalties. in the sense of their class of status,
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  Speaker 2: because they're part of the divine council. They are basically
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  Speaker 2: synonymous with the Watchers that we saw in Daniel 4.
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  Speaker 2: But then they come down and they mate with human women.
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  Speaker 2: The offspring of that union is a Nephilim. And then
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  Speaker 2: what you can show, I think you can show this
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  Speaker 2: in the Bible, in the biblical literature, is... We know
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  Speaker 2: in the book of Enoch, first Enoch chapter 15, which
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  Speaker 2: we know it's not scripture, but it's interesting. It reveals
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  Speaker 2: to us what the Jewish people believed basically from the
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  Speaker 2: third century to the first century, third century BC to
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  Speaker 2: the first century 80. And it clearly says there that those,
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  Speaker 2: those hybrids that when they died and their body is,
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  Speaker 2: is dead, that their spirit is a unclean spirit and
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  Speaker 2: it is a demonic spirit.
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  Speaker 3: So that, It says that. Now, what about Scripture?
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  Speaker 2: Well, I think you can prove that as well because
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  Speaker 2: the word Rephaim, we see this first appear in Genesis
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  Speaker 2: 14 as it relates to the Bashan, the eastern side
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  Speaker 2: of what we would say the Golan today. Well, the
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  Speaker 2: word Rephaim in the first five books of Moses in
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  Speaker 2: the Torah, in the Pentateuch, it only ever refers to
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  Speaker 2: a physical giant.
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  Speaker 1: Only.
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  Speaker 2: Only. But later, if you look at what scholars will
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  Speaker 2: call the diachronic use of the word, you know, of
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  Speaker 2: the word itself as it morphs throughout history, throughout time.
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  Speaker 3: Later, in the prophets and others, it's used to speak
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  Speaker 3: of the spirit.
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  Speaker 1: The dead ones.
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  Speaker 2: The dead giants. So to me, biblically, I think you
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  Speaker 2: can prove that a Nephilim and a Rephaim, they can
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  Speaker 2: be synonymous, is a physical giant.
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  Speaker 3: But when they die.
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  Speaker 2: It becomes a demonic, unclean spirit, which is you come
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  Speaker 2: to the New Testament, you go, where did all these
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  Speaker 2: demons come from?
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  Speaker 3: Well, that's what it is.
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  Speaker 2: So a fallen angel is not a demon.
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  Speaker 3: A fallen angel is so far above a demon.
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  Speaker 2: A demon is like a lower class part of the
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  Speaker 2: evil realm, Satan's kingdom.
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  Speaker 3: They're one of the lower class because they're hybrids.