Latest / Crime Stories with Nancy Grace / ALEC BALDWIN IN TRIAL CROSSHAIRS? COHORT CALLS JURY IDIOT A**HOLES

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ALEC BALDWIN IN TRIAL CROSSHAIRS? COHORT CALLS JURY IDIOT A**HOLES · Crime Stories with Nancy Grace

0:00
Speaker 1: Crime Stories with Nancy Grace, movie star Alec Baldwin one
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Speaker 1: step closer to a jury trial on homicide. Baldwin's rage
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Speaker 1: fits and uncontrollable anger on set coming back to bite
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Speaker 1: him in the neck as his rust movie co defendant
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Speaker 1: found guilty for the onset shooting death of wife and
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Speaker 1: mother cinematographer Helena Hutchins. Next up, Alec Baldwin. I'm Nancy Grace,
0:35
Speaker 1: this is Crime Stories.
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Speaker 2: Thank you for being with us.
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Speaker 3: You find the defendant and Teers is guilty of the
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Speaker 3: voluntary mansliter as Tarsi and can one.
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Speaker 1: Putambrey msstraction content co defendant the Armorer just found guilty
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Speaker 1: in a court of law. The armorer charged along with
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Speaker 1: Alec Baldwin. Is he this close to a jury trial
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Speaker 1: on homicide? Joining me an all star panel and makes
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Speaker 1: sense of what we know right now? Marine Callahan First up,
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Speaker 1: columnist Dailymail dot Com, Maureene, thank.
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Speaker 4: You for being with us. What happened?
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Speaker 5: What happened? Is You're correct? Alec Baldwin is one step closer.
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Speaker 4: He is next up?
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Speaker 5: And if what happened to this armorer is any indication
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Speaker 5: of what is about to happen to Alec Baldwin, things
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Speaker 5: do not look good for him. I would argue that,
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Speaker 5: aside from the complete lack of safety protocols that were
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Speaker 5: left just completely neglected on this set.
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Speaker 4: You know, you have this armorer who's arguing.
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Speaker 5: I was young, in naive, I was in over my
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Speaker 5: head and don't take the job where your main responsibility
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Speaker 5: is to keep the cast and crew safe from life
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Speaker 5: and limb being destroyed. What I think is the connective
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Speaker 5: tissue between Hanna Gutier's read and Alec Baldwin is, as
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Speaker 5: the judge said in Hannah Sentencing, an utter lack of remorse,
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Speaker 5: an utter lack of taking any accountability, and as we
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Speaker 5: have seen since this tragic incident, Alec Baldwin, for moment
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Speaker 5: one has expressed sympathy for only himself.
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Speaker 1: Along with his wife, who keeps posting shots of herself
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Speaker 1: and skin tight leggings and stiletto heels walking around New
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Speaker 1: York and very callously posting happy moments of them with
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Speaker 1: their family. As the family of Helena Hutchins goes without
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Speaker 1: a wife and mom. Guys, it didn't help anything when
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Speaker 1: the co defendant the armorer.
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Speaker 4: An armorer is the person.
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Speaker 1: On the set that's in charge of all of the
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Speaker 1: amo and the guns and the weapons and agoutietas read
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Speaker 1: actually is calling the Gurrrs idiot a holes, idiots and
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Speaker 1: a holes. Okay, that's not gonna help anything. Del Carson,
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Speaker 1: high profile lawyer, former FBI agent, joining us out of
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Speaker 1: Jacksonville's author of Arrest Proof Yourself.
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Speaker 4: He's at del Carson Law dot com.
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Speaker 1: Dell, have your clients still not figured out their calls
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Speaker 1: are being recorded? You know, when you've got somebody two
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Speaker 1: or three days before sentencing and they're going the.
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Speaker 4: Jeryson a hole, the jerseysan bunch of idiots.
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Speaker 6: Really, it's a real problem. And no matter how many
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Speaker 6: times you tell your clients that they're recording the phone calls,
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Speaker 6: it really doesn't have a significant effect on their conversations
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Speaker 6: on telephones to their friends, because they're talking to people
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Speaker 6: that they purportedly or have positive relationships with. And of
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Speaker 6: course she's probably right. They did convict her, although they
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Speaker 6: did find her not guilty of the cocaine charge, which
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Speaker 6: is kind of a gift.
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Speaker 4: Did you just say Gutierrez is kind of right?
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Speaker 1: Is that what you said? She's probably kind of right.
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Speaker 1: What she called the jars a holes.
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Speaker 6: From her perspective. They convicted her, right, they're not friends
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Speaker 6: of hers obviously.
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Speaker 4: Is she just telling her truth?
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Speaker 1: In other words, of course history rewritten the way she.
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Speaker 4: Wants it to be.
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Speaker 6: Well, they convicted her, and you got to know that
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Speaker 6: that doesn't make her feel good. So since she's full
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Speaker 6: of herself, I don't care.
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Speaker 4: How she feels. Are you crazy? What I just are
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Speaker 4: you okay? Number one? Are you in the middle of like? Maybe? Okay?
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Speaker 1: So you're agreeing with the woman that a jury has
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Speaker 1: found guilty in a homicide charge where a shooting death
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Speaker 1: occurred at the workplace of a young wife slash mother,
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Speaker 1: incredible cinematographer. You're okay with her calling the jurors a
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Speaker 1: holes and idiots.
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Speaker 6: I'm a defensive attorney, Nancy, of course, I'm okay with that.
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Speaker 4: Well, you know what's interesting.
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Speaker 1: A snake crawls on its belly and it thinks it's
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Speaker 1: a king, Okay, but it's not.
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Speaker 4: It's a snake. So blurting out I'm a defense attorney
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Speaker 4: doesn't make it okay. You know what, I'm gonna let.
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Speaker 1: You think about what you've done for a few moments.
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Speaker 1: I'm putting you in the corner your official time out, guys,
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Speaker 1: in case any of you have forgotten what this is about.
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Speaker 1: All right, we're joking around. Helena Hutchins is dead. She
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Speaker 1: has a little boy and a husband. The little boy
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Speaker 1: no mommy, no mommy. That's never gonna change for him.
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Speaker 1: There may be a step mother someday, there may be
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Speaker 1: a daddy's girlfriend, but there is no such thing as
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Speaker 1: a new mother. Take a listen to this nine one
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Speaker 1: one call.
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Speaker 7: The Nanza Creek Grant had two people accidentally shot on
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Speaker 7: a movie set by a prop done. We need help immediately,
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Speaker 7: the Nanza Creek Grant. Come on, stay almost phone with me.
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Speaker 7: We're going to get some help. Okay, okay, what is
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Speaker 7: your name?
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Speaker 3: Don't hang up?
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Speaker 7: Okay, hold on just one second. It sounds like somebody
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Speaker 7: else is calling for better miss.
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Speaker 8: It's good.
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Speaker 7: Everybody should be. We need some help of director in
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Speaker 7: our cameraman camera woman has been shot. Are they going
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Speaker 7: to take him to the road?
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Speaker 9: So?
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Speaker 5: Was it loaded with a real bullet or one?
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Speaker 7: I don't I cannot tell you that.
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Speaker 1: Okay, gosh, they're a pretty calm, a very calm demeanor
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Speaker 1: when two people had been shot. Marie Callahan special guests
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Speaker 1: joining us calumnists for dailymail dot Com. I think is
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Speaker 1: the biggest online news outlet in the world.
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Speaker 4: Not sure about that. I'm sure all the other outlets
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Speaker 4: would argue with.
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Speaker 1: That, Marie Callahan. Two people were shot. Who's the other one?
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Speaker 1: I know, Helena Hutchins, a cinematographer. And who's the other one?
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Speaker 1: Shot by Alec Baldwin? Although we keep saying he didn't
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Speaker 1: pull the trigger? Okay, I hope he tells that to
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Speaker 1: the jury. Who's the other victim?
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Speaker 5: It was Joel Souza, who was on the set as well,
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Speaker 5: and who testified in this case that he felt that
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Speaker 5: he had been struck by a baseball bat and that
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Speaker 5: the moment the shooting happened, Hannah Gutierrez read the armorer
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Speaker 5: in question was standing over him and saying I'm sorry,
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Speaker 5: I'm sorry, which is maybe the first and only time
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Speaker 5: we have heard anything approaching culpability or.
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Speaker 4: Remorse out of this young woman. I would also say.
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Speaker 5: To your earlier point about her being recorded on prison
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Speaker 5: calls referring to the jurors as idiots, a holes, and worse,
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Speaker 5: saying that the judge was on the take and quote
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Speaker 5: on a power trip. Just it goes to the level
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Speaker 5: of intelligence here. You know, one would think if you're
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Speaker 5: on trial for your life, she will never work in
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Speaker 5: this industry again. She will never hold a job of
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Speaker 5: any real import again.
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Speaker 1: Mariene Callahan, you know that's an old phrase that's thrown around.
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Speaker 4: You'll never work in this town again.
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Speaker 1: I actually had that said to me by the head
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Speaker 1: of a network once. By the way, I still did
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Speaker 1: what I really do anyway. Oh yeah, but that's the
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Speaker 1: story for another day. Right now, I'm on Alec Baldwin.
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Speaker 1: You said that, and hey, like, she's not going to
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Speaker 1: be an armorer again.
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Speaker 4: Who cares.
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Speaker 1: I'd be worried about not going to jail with all
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Speaker 1: the killers and the child molesters.
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Speaker 4: And the dope dealers. But that's just me.
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Speaker 1: I wouldn't worry too much about my career as a
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Speaker 1: movie armorer at this moment. But you said her calling
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Speaker 1: the gr rs idiots and a holes? You said and worse?
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Speaker 1: What was worse than that, other than saying the judge
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Speaker 1: is on the take? That's huge.
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Speaker 5: Well, I would never use this word in most play
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Speaker 5: people don't use this word anymore. But she used the
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Speaker 5: R word in referring to the jurors lack of intelligence.
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Speaker 5: You know, it's all just emblematic of a set. I
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Speaker 5: believe that from the top down. And by that I
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Speaker 5: mean by Arian Callahan.
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Speaker 4: I have huge respect for you. But what did she say?
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Speaker 4: She called the jurors recharge? Is that what you're saying?
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Speaker 4: You did? She did? She did?
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Speaker 1: You know? It just never ends with this one, does it?
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Speaker 1: Her and Alec Baldwin.
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Speaker 4: You know what?
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Speaker 1: That brings me to another point why their trials were
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Speaker 1: severed to start with, because I put those two in
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Speaker 1: the same pot and let them stew together.
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Speaker 4: But take a listen to this nine on one call.
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Speaker 7: We have two injuries from a movie done shock, Okay,
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Speaker 7: we're getting them out there already to stay on my phone,
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Speaker 7: wasn't me?
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Speaker 10: Okay?
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Speaker 9: That yelled at me.
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Speaker 7: At lunch because asking about revisions?
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Speaker 4: Did you see and yell at.
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Speaker 7: Me he's for subjected guns, she's responsible for ALMMI no, no, no,
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Speaker 7: I'm a script. Super people were injured, true that I
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Speaker 7: know of. I was hearing. We were rehearsing and it
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Speaker 7: went off and I ran out. We all ran out.
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Speaker 4: Crime stories, with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 1: Joining me in addition to Del Carson and special guest
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Speaker 1: Marine Callahan is a renowned forensic pathologist, medical examiner, Lucky
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Speaker 1: for me, former detective. She literally wrote the book Homicide Investigation,
10:46
Speaker 1: Field Guide, new book, Money, Mischief and Murder, the Murdoch's saga.
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Speaker 1: You may need a volume two on that one, Doctor dupree,
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Speaker 1: Doctor dupree. You hear the nine one one caller state
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Speaker 1: that one of the thevictims is bleeding. She wasn't just bleeding,
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Speaker 1: she bled out, she died. How quickly can a human examinate?
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Speaker 3: Financie? Of course, as you know, it depends on where
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Speaker 3: the person is shot. It can take a very short
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Speaker 3: period of time, where it can take several minutes. It
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Speaker 3: all depends on the organs and the injury itself.
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Speaker 1: Warning to everybody, Warning to the prosecutor, the judge of the.
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Speaker 4: Future, your ours.
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Speaker 1: The defense has threatened to call out the big guns
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Speaker 1: in this case, threatening to bring on Helen Mirren and
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Speaker 1: Harrison Ford as defense witnesses. I'm pretty sure, Marie Callahan,
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Speaker 1: that Harrison Ford and Helen Mirren, to icons in the
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Speaker 1: movie industry, were not on the set that day.
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Speaker 4: Would you agree with that?
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Speaker 5: I think that's a safe assumption to make, Nancy. I mean,
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Speaker 5: I'm sure both of them would love to be excluded
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Speaker 5: from this narrative.
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Speaker 4: I mean again, this.
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Speaker 5: Just shows you the level of delusion and entitlement and
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Speaker 5: how long someone like Alec Baldwin has been in his bubble.
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Speaker 5: He thinks by hauling in a couple of aging A
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Speaker 5: listers who had nothing to do with this tragedy, that
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Speaker 5: somehow the jury will be impressed, that somehow the jury
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Speaker 5: will think that this guy again, who has shown zero remorse, who,
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Speaker 5: as you said, he and his wife posting happy family
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Speaker 5: photos within days of Helena Hutchinson's Holy preventable death, saying
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Speaker 5: that it was intense parenting through this difficult time when
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Speaker 5: Helena's little boy was unable to speak for two days
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Speaker 5: after this death. You think this guy's remotely sympathetic. You
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Speaker 5: think Helena Hutchins's armorer was like, had a remote shot
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Speaker 5: at getting a sympathetic jury Like Alec Baldwin. I hope
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Speaker 5: his defense attorneys are able to knock some sense into him,
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Speaker 5: because she's going to prison, not jail, the judge said,
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Speaker 5: because of her lack of remorse, because of her attempts
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Speaker 5: to blame everybody else. And if you want another just
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Speaker 5: look at the level of her delusion. This girl tried
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Speaker 5: to get Helena's family members to testify for her in court.
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Speaker 1: Helena Hutchins dies on the set of Alec Baldwin's new
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Speaker 1: movie Rust the Armorer, that's what they call them. Joining
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Speaker 1: me Johannis chum Waino film and TV safety Expert CEO
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Speaker 1: of Star Network and you can find him at Vipstar
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Speaker 1: Networking dot com Johannas they did everything.
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Speaker 4: Wrong the Armorer did.
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Speaker 1: And when Alec Baldwin actually says he didn't pull the trigger,
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Speaker 1: that's complete BS technical legal term, because he did pull
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Speaker 1: the trigger and ballistic texts were conducted to prove he
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Speaker 1: pulled the trigger. So before I get back on Gucciirez
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Speaker 1: calling the saying the judges on the take and asking
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Speaker 1: the victims family to testify.
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Speaker 4: For her in court, there's just so much wrong she did.
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Speaker 1: In court, that's right, but what went wrong on the set,
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Speaker 1: mister Chimuyno.
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Speaker 11: Pre Planning and Nancy, this is a case that underscores
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Speaker 11: the significance from a health and safety standpoint. This case
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Speaker 11: in itself will change, will allow a catalyst to change
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Speaker 11: within the industry in terms of pre planning, health and
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Speaker 11: safety protocols, stringent requirements for training as well as most
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Speaker 11: importantly the hiring, the workforce development. Everything on set should
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Speaker 11: have never even got to a stage where there was
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Speaker 11: potentially live ammunition in a dummy gun Nazi and so
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Speaker 11: this is the importance of this. Will we'll have detriments
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Speaker 11: into the future. It will be really interesting to follow
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Speaker 11: the case for the next five to ten years.
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Speaker 1: Okay, you know what Johanna is Chimuayno film and TV
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Speaker 1: safety expert just said everything accurately. But when I I
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Speaker 1: think about the next five, ten, fifteen years, all I
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Speaker 1: think about is Helena Hutchins boy growing up and having
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Speaker 1: one Christmas after the next without mom, one Birthday after
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Speaker 1: the next, without Mom going to her grave putting flowers there.
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Speaker 1: As you heard Marine Callahan speak earlier from dailymail dot com,
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Speaker 1: the little boy.
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Speaker 4: Didn't utter one word for two.
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Speaker 1: Days after he found out his mother had been shot
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Speaker 1: dead at work by Alec Baldwin. Guys, many people have
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Speaker 1: heard the nine on one calls made that day, but
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Speaker 1: very few have heard the police bodycam footage where the
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Speaker 1: rust armorer Hannah Gaterez is taken with a cop around
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Speaker 1: the set and she tries desperately to collect rounds and
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Speaker 1: rounds of ammunition.
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Speaker 4: Listen, I need to.
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Speaker 6: Know where the goods are right now, Marmer, I need
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Speaker 6: to correct.
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Speaker 4: Why do I know this is a gun? That's a gun?
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Speaker 6: Okay? Where is that at?
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Speaker 4: Do you have those crowns they gave you?
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Speaker 1: Did you hear that she can't find the ammo? They
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Speaker 1: don't know which gun is which?
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Speaker 4: Wow?
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Speaker 1: Okay, back to Marine Callahan joining us from dailymail dot com.
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Speaker 4: What about the thresta Hey, hey, Jackie, give.
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Speaker 1: Me some soap and a washcloth right now, because I'm
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Speaker 1: going straight to Marine Callahan's set and washing her mouth
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Speaker 1: out with soap. To refer to Harrison Ford and Helen
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Speaker 1: Mirren as aging a listers.
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Speaker 4: Okay, girl, you got a nerve.
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Speaker 1: Okay, I'm gonna try to ignore that for right now
17:21
Speaker 1: to just get yes. But their popularity is not my
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Speaker 1: problem right now, because they're icons, they're legends, they're still
17:30
Speaker 1: starring on the screen, they're rolling in money.
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Speaker 4: Harrison Ford has a wife that's like thirty years younger
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Speaker 4: than him.
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Speaker 1: He's flying around in planes and you called him an
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Speaker 1: aging a lister.
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Speaker 4: You know what? I would not want to look up
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Speaker 4: and see Indiana Jones coming after me. I don't care
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Speaker 4: how old he is with that whip, forget it. That said,
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Speaker 4: their threat is they're gonna call in Helen Mirren and
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Speaker 4: Harrison Ford.
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Speaker 1: To save what Okay, I'm leading up to a legal
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Speaker 1: point where and tell him, once you bring in character
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Speaker 1: evidence in a trial, such as Harrison Ford, if he
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Speaker 1: would do it, say yeah, he Bowin's a great guy.
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Speaker 4: That's called opening the door under the law.
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Speaker 1: And I would wait on the edge of my seat
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Speaker 1: every trial hoping the defendant would bring in his or
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Speaker 1: her good character. Why under our constitution, the state's not
18:22
Speaker 1: allowed to say, yeah, he's got an arrest for this.
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Speaker 1: He a taculating in a parking lot. He attacked this person.
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Speaker 1: He blessed out that you can't do that. You cannot
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Speaker 1: try a defendant on their reputation unless and until they
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Speaker 1: open the door.
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Speaker 4: Then the state takes out it's very, very huge.
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Speaker 1: File like this one and starts going through all of
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Speaker 1: the convictions and the prior bad acts. So I pray
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Speaker 1: that they bring on Ford and Mirror because once they do,
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Speaker 1: all of the bloviators bs over the years is coming
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Speaker 1: right into the courtroom like that Easter parade Okay, this
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Speaker 1: is such a restraint.
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Speaker 4: Does what history is.
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Speaker 6: The obvious right?
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Speaker 4: Yeah, the public.
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Speaker 5: Rage monster we have long known and been too terribly
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Speaker 5: acquainted with. Okay, Alec Baldwin, who has punched numerous members
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Speaker 5: of the paparazzi, who fairly recently got into like slugging
19:23
Speaker 5: somebody over street parking in New York City, who called
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Speaker 5: like a Starbucks barista, like a queen who you know,
19:32
Speaker 5: left that unforgettable voicemail message for his then like twelve
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Speaker 5: year old daughter calling her a thoughtless little pig. Things
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Speaker 5: thrown around on Broadway backstage like the So the top
19:46
Speaker 5: part of this indictment for Baldwin states that he had
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Speaker 5: quote no emotional control, no control of his emotions on
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Speaker 5: this set, to which the members of the general public,
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Speaker 5: I guarantee you any jury pool would say, no surprise there.
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Speaker 5: This guy is full of rage. And again I think
20:06
Speaker 5: it was a top down kind of things. Was his set.
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Speaker 5: He was a producer, he was the star. He allowed
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Speaker 5: and like a completely inexperienced, gutless, naive, lazy, indolent kid
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Speaker 5: to be in charge of ammunition on a set that
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Speaker 5: the day or two before now, the morning of Helena
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Speaker 5: Hutchins's fatal shooting. A good number of that crew walked
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Speaker 5: off the set because they were sounding the alarm for
20:36
Speaker 5: days with the production.
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Speaker 4: Take a listen.
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Speaker 8: In recorded jailhouse phone calls, Hannah Gutier is Read lashes
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Speaker 8: out of the jury after she is convicted on manslaughter charges,
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Speaker 8: but before she is sentenced, Hannah Gutiers Read blasts the
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Speaker 8: jurors that convicted her, calling them idiots and a holes.
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Speaker 8: These jailhouse phone call recordings are brought out by the
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Speaker 8: prosecution just in time for sentencing. The defense has worked
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Speaker 8: hard to present Gutier has read in a softer, more
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Speaker 8: genteel manner, but prosecutors say that jail house recordings show
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Speaker 8: how she really is. Outside of court, Gutiers Read wants
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Speaker 8: Alec Baldwin to go to jail two and says she
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Speaker 8: won't testify it as upcoming trial if saphenad.
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Speaker 4: Crime stores with Nancy Grace.
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Speaker 8: In recorded jail house phone calls, Hannah Gutier is Read
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Speaker 8: lashes out of the jury after she is convicted on
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Speaker 8: manslaughter charges, but before she is sentenced. Hannah Gutier is
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Speaker 8: Read blasts the jurors that convicted her, calling them idiots
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Speaker 8: and a holes. These jail house phone call recordings are
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Speaker 8: brought out by the prosecution just in time for sentencing.
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Speaker 8: The defense has worked hard to present gutiers Read in
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Speaker 8: a softer, more genteel manner, but prosecutors say that jail
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Speaker 8: house recordings show how she really is. Outside of court.
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Speaker 8: Gutier Is Read wants Alec Baldwin to go to jail too,
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Speaker 8: and says she won't testify it as upcoming trial if
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Speaker 8: subpoena Wow.
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Speaker 1: Okay, so how are you going to get out of
22:08
Speaker 1: that when you're subpoenaed? And what do you just stick
22:10
Speaker 1: your bottom lip out? So far you could plan a
22:13
Speaker 1: row of turnips on it and refuse to testify.
22:15
Speaker 4: Okay, that's not going to work.
22:17
Speaker 1: But that said, did she do that, Marie Callahan dealingmail
22:21
Speaker 1: dot com.
22:21
Speaker 4: Did she threaten not to testify?
22:22
Speaker 5: I called That's what I've read that she's But she
22:25
Speaker 5: also complained that Alec Baldwin had not been subpoenaed in
22:29
Speaker 5: her case. So again you're dealing with a level of
22:33
Speaker 5: not just emotional and psychological immaturity, but intellectual deficit and
22:40
Speaker 5: the idea that this young woman was placed in charge
22:44
Speaker 5: of ammunition and weaponry on this set just beggars belief.
22:50
Speaker 4: She got what was coming to her.
22:52
Speaker 5: She probably would have gotten a lesser sentence again had
22:55
Speaker 5: she displayed one iota of genuine remorse. But the only
22:59
Speaker 5: tears she shed We're at the end of this trial
23:01
Speaker 5: for herself. And this is why I believe this trial
23:05
Speaker 5: is a giant foreshadowing of what we are about to
23:08
Speaker 5: see with Alec Baldwin standing trial on a much larger
23:12
Speaker 5: scale before a much larger audience in July.
23:15
Speaker 1: Well, this woman, Hannah guteraz Read would certainly not be
23:20
Speaker 1: the first for jail house conversations coming back to buy
23:25
Speaker 1: you in the net. We just saw the sentencing and
23:29
Speaker 1: the parents of Ethan Cromley, the school shooter, and then
23:33
Speaker 1: we find out behind bars Cromley's dad threatened to take
23:37
Speaker 1: a hit out on the lady prosecutor.
23:41
Speaker 4: Listen.
23:41
Speaker 11: Rarely do we see a defended threatening and the prosecutor,
23:44
Speaker 11: let alone a member of a triality team, let alone
23:47
Speaker 11: the elected official.
23:49
Speaker 4: There will be retribution.
23:51
Speaker 11: She's going to be sucking on a hot rock down
23:55
Speaker 11: at how soon? I'm I'm dyart, Yes, Karen McDonald is
24:02
Speaker 11: going down any better?
24:05
Speaker 6: I didn't want to be that judge.
24:07
Speaker 1: That was just a few weeks.
24:08
Speaker 6: Before the trial. I don't know any other definition with
24:11
Speaker 6: dactor being other than a specific threat me to a
24:15
Speaker 6: member of the trial team.
24:16
Speaker 1: Okay, so that's what jailhouse banter, let me say, gets
24:21
Speaker 1: you at senacing. And here Hannah Gatea is Reid calling
24:24
Speaker 1: the jurors a holes and idiots and saying the judge
24:29
Speaker 1: is on the take out.
24:31
Speaker 4: Joining you right now.
24:33
Speaker 1: Another special guest, in addition to Marine Callahan, Johannes Chimwaino,
24:37
Speaker 1: Doctor Dupree and Del Carson, Paul Zeike is joining us.
24:41
Speaker 1: Former police commander also with the Screen Actors Guild experience
24:48
Speaker 1: using firearms with blanks during live action movie scenes such
24:54
Speaker 1: as Terminator, author of Stop Him From Killing Them on Amazon.
25:00
Speaker 4: That's a lot.
25:01
Speaker 1: But before I continue with your CV, let me ask you.
25:05
Speaker 4: What went wrong on the set.
25:07
Speaker 1: And Alec Baldwin is now up against it because he
25:13
Speaker 1: openly stated he did not.
25:15
Speaker 4: Pull the trigger.
25:16
Speaker 1: Now, when that is disproved at trial, which it will be,
25:20
Speaker 1: he's going to be stuck with his lie. Explained to
25:23
Speaker 1: me how it was proven with the gun in question,
25:29
Speaker 1: the homicide gun, that somebody had to pull the trigger.
25:33
Speaker 9: Well, the FBI did a series of testing on that
25:36
Speaker 9: weapon and it was determined that there is no way
25:39
Speaker 9: for that weapon to fire unless the trigger is actually pulled.
25:44
Speaker 10: It's just that simple. And there's no way for a
25:46
Speaker 10: projectile to strike somebody that you're not aiming weapon at them.
25:50
Speaker 10: In both cases that occurred, the environment has to be
25:56
Speaker 10: there can be no live ammunition anywhere to be seen.
26:00
Speaker 10: That was also breached. There was a cataclysmic failure at
26:04
Speaker 10: multiple points that synergistically created this perfect storm and unfortunately
26:10
Speaker 10: results in absolute horrific incident that we just can't go
26:14
Speaker 10: back and fix. However, moving forward, we should stop utilizing
26:18
Speaker 10: deadly weapons as prop guns. This was not a prop gun.
26:23
Speaker 10: It's a functioning firearm being used as a prop and
26:26
Speaker 10: at the end of the day, that is a contributory
26:30
Speaker 10: factor and what caused this?
26:31
Speaker 1: Is it true, Marie Callahan, you said earlier Marine joining
26:34
Speaker 1: us from dailymail dot com. She actually asked Helena Hutchin's family.
26:39
Speaker 4: To come on and testify for her.
26:42
Speaker 2: Yes.
26:43
Speaker 5: Yes, which again goes to the level of entitlement, of
26:48
Speaker 5: complete lack of culpability accountability.
26:51
Speaker 6: That she took.
26:52
Speaker 5: She said to the judge before her sentencing. You know,
26:56
Speaker 5: this doesn't make me a monster. I made a mistake.
27:00
Speaker 5: It just makes me a human being, you know. And
27:02
Speaker 5: it sort of springs from this ethos of like gen
27:06
Speaker 5: Zers that any mistake, even one that results in the
27:10
Speaker 5: end of a life, is just something that kind of
27:13
Speaker 5: goes into the bank of your own lived experiences that
27:17
Speaker 5: will hopefully make you better going forward. I mean, this
27:20
Speaker 5: is everything that like resulted in her getting eighteen months
27:24
Speaker 5: in prison, not jail, and one would hope she would
27:27
Speaker 5: emerge from this a little bit humbled, a little bit better.
27:31
Speaker 1: I doubt it, and joining me high profile lawyer or
27:33
Speaker 1: former fed with the FBI Dale Carson Dale. This should
27:38
Speaker 1: be a blueprint for Alec Baldwin. But I'm pretty sure
27:42
Speaker 1: you know, when you don't know a horse. Look at
27:44
Speaker 1: his track record. He's never listened to a darn thing
27:47
Speaker 1: anybody's ever told him. Uh So I doubt he's going
27:51
Speaker 1: to listen now. But the trial of Hannah Gaatea's read
27:56
Speaker 1: the Armorer on the rest set should be a blueprint
28:01
Speaker 1: for warning to him, because what.
28:03
Speaker 4: She did was this blaming each other.
28:07
Speaker 1: That's why I like tri co defenits together because that
28:09
Speaker 1: jury gets to sit there and watch them all at
28:11
Speaker 1: the same table blaming each other.
28:13
Speaker 4: She blamed Baldwin.
28:16
Speaker 1: When Baldwin goes to trial, he's gonna blame her. It
28:21
Speaker 1: didn't work for good Taras Reid. Do you think it'll
28:24
Speaker 1: work for Baldwin?
28:25
Speaker 6: Well, of course, that's why you call a listers who've
28:28
Speaker 6: been involved in firearms and the use of armors to
28:32
Speaker 6: argue that you have a right to rely on what
28:35
Speaker 6: they've done. But I will say this, the person responsible
28:39
Speaker 6: for the death here and the use.
28:41
Speaker 4: Of a firearm is Baldwin.
28:43
Speaker 6: This armor, of course facilitated that, but the real guilt
28:48
Speaker 6: has to be put on the person who actually killed
28:51
Speaker 6: the individual. Firearms are inherently dangerous. I've been in a
28:56
Speaker 6: number of shootings I've seen the results of this. Their
29:00
Speaker 6: arms are dangerous, and your other guest is absolutely correct.
29:03
Speaker 6: To have a functioning firearm on set with actual live
29:07
Speaker 6: rounds is outrageous. No one in their right mind would
29:11
Speaker 6: do that, even the FBI when it uses prop guns,
29:15
Speaker 6: they're drilled so that they can't fire a projectile even
29:19
Speaker 6: if someone mistakenly puts something in a chamber, and to
29:23
Speaker 6: not do that is insane. But it speaks to the
29:26
Speaker 6: use of firearms and movies and on scenes directly, and
29:32
Speaker 6: it tells us that gut and guns are safe. I
29:35
Speaker 6: can tell you I've carried a gun since I was
29:38
Speaker 6: twenty two in a police situation all my life. They're dangerous.
29:44
Speaker 6: I don't like them. I hide them. I put them
29:47
Speaker 6: in a safe when I'm not using them.
29:49
Speaker 1: All of that second verse same as the first. If
29:53
Speaker 1: I had you on trial, I would object from being
29:56
Speaker 1: unresponsive to the question. The question was not about you,
30:00
Speaker 1: young rookie cop at age twenty two.
30:01
Speaker 4: Carrying a weapon.
30:02
Speaker 1: The question was about the theory of defense at trial?
30:09
Speaker 1: Will Alec Baldwin blame the armorer like the armorer blamed
30:15
Speaker 1: Alec Bowen because it didn't work out very well for her?
30:19
Speaker 6: Of course he will.
30:20
Speaker 4: And will it work? Will it work because I say
30:23
Speaker 4: it won't work?
30:24
Speaker 6: Oh, I say it won't work because he's responsible for
30:28
Speaker 6: the firearm pointed at a person that he killed.
30:30
Speaker 5: Man.
30:31
Speaker 4: I'm a JD, not a DDS. I don't have a
30:33
Speaker 4: pull of tooth, but I will try. Let me go
30:36
Speaker 4: to JOHANNS.
30:37
Speaker 1: Chimueno joining us filming TV safety expert at Vipstar network
30:42
Speaker 1: dot Com. Johanns right or wrong. Baldwin has claimed, and
30:48
Speaker 1: this is going to come back to haunt him, that
30:49
Speaker 1: he didn't pull the trigger. He pulled the trigger.
30:52
Speaker 11: Wrong, Nancy, wrong, wrong, wrong, wrong, It's all wrong, And
30:56
Speaker 11: I think I think the idea is is that going
30:58
Speaker 11: into the case, Miss Hannah Gutier's Read is now the scapegoat.
31:02
Speaker 11: Would you agree, Nancy, They've already convicted her, and to
31:05
Speaker 11: now convict Alec Baldwin on the same crime, the same
31:09
Speaker 11: case is going to be challenged, and so rather right
31:13
Speaker 11: or wrong to the idea is that the judge has
31:15
Speaker 11: already ruled in Hannegutier Read's case, she is now the scapegoat.
31:19
Speaker 11: Health and safety standards will continue to be improved alongside
31:24
Speaker 11: the catastrophic traffic tragic incident rather that has occurred between
31:29
Speaker 11: the family and Helena Hutcheson. Really from a comprehensive health
31:32
Speaker 11: and safety standpoint, we can now look at this case
31:35
Speaker 11: and say, how do we improve how do we move
31:37
Speaker 11: forward in a way that's consistent with the situation that
31:40
Speaker 11: again that the family Helena Hutchison is facing, and so
31:44
Speaker 11: unfortunately gonna agree that Hannahgutier Reads is now the scapegoat
31:50
Speaker 11: in the case with me.
31:51
Speaker 1: Johanna's Chimwayno, who's a film and TV safety expert. I'm
31:56
Speaker 1: trying to That was a mouthful number one put this
32:00
Speaker 1: down because I could not keep up with everything you
32:02
Speaker 1: were saying.
32:02
Speaker 4: But to put it in a nutshell.
32:04
Speaker 1: I think what you said is they are Bowen's team
32:09
Speaker 1: is going to blame Gutara's read and it may very
32:13
Speaker 1: well work because she's already been convicted and they can say, look,
32:17
Speaker 1: she's been.
32:18
Speaker 4: Convicted and jury said, so she's the problem. Okay, got it.
32:23
Speaker 1: I think I heard somebody jumping in. Was that marine
32:25
Speaker 1: or doctor Dupree? It's doctor Dupree, Nancy.
32:28
Speaker 3: I think that you know, this is absolutely tragic and
32:31
Speaker 3: absolutely Alex Baldwin bears some responsibility. But I also think
32:34
Speaker 3: that we have to put the majority of the blame
32:38
Speaker 3: or responsibility on Hannah. It was her job. Expect what
32:43
Speaker 3: would we expect Alex to do? You know, obviously, anyone
32:46
Speaker 3: handling a gun needs to make sure that it is safe.
32:49
Speaker 3: But if you open that cylinder and you look at
32:51
Speaker 3: the cartridges in there, I don't think you can tell
32:54
Speaker 3: the difference from a live round and a black ground
32:56
Speaker 3: unless you take the bullets out of the chamber, and
33:00
Speaker 3: is that what we expect him to do? Maybe it is.
33:02
Speaker 3: I don't know the answer to that. But the problem
33:05
Speaker 3: is the headstamp may be different, which is the stamp
33:08
Speaker 3: on the back of the bullet or the base of
33:10
Speaker 3: the bullet where the firing pin strikes it. That may
33:13
Speaker 3: be different from a live round and a blank round.
33:16
Speaker 3: I don't know. But what Alex know that. I don't
33:18
Speaker 3: know that either. But the only way to really tell
33:21
Speaker 3: whether that was a live round or a blank round
33:23
Speaker 3: is to take the bullets out of the gun and
33:25
Speaker 3: look at the nose of the bullet and see if
33:27
Speaker 3: that is or not. But he was the one that
33:30
Speaker 3: handled it. He is the one that fired the shot.
33:32
Speaker 3: He absolutely bears some responsibility also, and I think that
33:37
Speaker 3: he may be bringing in the other actresses and actors
33:42
Speaker 3: to state how it is normally handled. Does an actor
33:47
Speaker 3: every time they're handled a fire gun, do they always
33:50
Speaker 3: look take the bullets out and look at the bullets?
33:52
Speaker 4: Do they do that or do they assume right or wrong?
33:56
Speaker 3: Do they assume that the one handed to them that
33:58
Speaker 3: said it saithe is set take a listen.
34:01
Speaker 8: Ever since the shooting, death of Helena Hutchins on the
34:03
Speaker 8: set of Rust. Alec Baldwin has claimed he did not
34:06
Speaker 8: pull the trigger, even after an FBI report contradicting Baldwin's
34:10
Speaker 8: account of the shooting, saying the trigger had to have
34:12
Speaker 8: been pulled for the gun to fire. Baldwin says he
34:15
Speaker 8: didn't pull the trigger. The FBI report says their testing
34:18
Speaker 8: proves the gun could not be made to fire without
34:20
Speaker 8: the pull of the trigger. Accidental discharge testing determined that
34:24
Speaker 8: the firearm used in the shooting, a forty five CULT
34:26
Speaker 8: single action revolver, could not have fired without the trigger
34:30
Speaker 8: being pulled. The FBI report also says with the hammer
34:33
Speaker 8: in the quarter half cock and fully cocked positions, the
34:37
Speaker 8: gun could not be made to fire without a pull
34:39
Speaker 8: of the trigger. Ali Baldwin says he didn't pull the trigger.
34:43
Speaker 1: So that may very well be the torpedo into Alec
34:45
Speaker 1: Baldwin's defense. He could rightfully claim, Oh, it's all the
34:50
Speaker 1: armorer's fault. That would be a good defense. Do I
34:53
Speaker 1: believe it? No, But he could claim that, but he
34:55
Speaker 1: stuck with his claim he never pulled trigger. And there
35:02
Speaker 1: is nothing worse than a big fat lie landing right
35:07
Speaker 1: in the middle of your pristine defense of blaming guitaras
35:11
Speaker 1: Reid so to you, Marie Callahan dailymail dot com. He's
35:16
Speaker 1: still stuck with that statement, even though the FBI has
35:19
Speaker 1: proven he did pull the trigger. So when you catch
35:23
Speaker 1: the defendant lying, it's hard to believe the rest of
35:27
Speaker 1: their defense, like it's her fault, not my fault.
35:29
Speaker 4: Right Nancy.
35:30
Speaker 5: And to jump off your previous guests comments, you know,
35:33
Speaker 5: first of all, it is equally Alec Baldwin's fault. He
35:37
Speaker 5: is as culpable as the armorer. Both can be at fault.
35:40
Speaker 5: It's not a binary choice. It's not one or the other.
35:44
Speaker 5: In the days and weeks after this tragedy, I spoke
35:47
Speaker 5: to two veteran experts of firearm safety on Hollywood sets,
35:52
Speaker 5: TV and film. They told me very simple things. There
35:55
Speaker 5: should be no live rounds. There should have been no
35:58
Speaker 5: dummy rounds in that gun.
35:59
Speaker 4: When you bring a gun.
36:00
Speaker 5: To set that the armorer her or himself is checked,
36:04
Speaker 5: they then open that weapon in front of the actor
36:07
Speaker 5: and in front of everybody on that set to show
36:10
Speaker 5: that it is empty. They handed to the actor. The
36:12
Speaker 5: actor examines it themselves. If Alec Baldwin in that scene
36:16
Speaker 5: had been called to put that gun to the temple
36:18
Speaker 5: of his forehead and pull the trigger, do we think
36:21
Speaker 5: he would have opened that gun?
36:23
Speaker 4: I think yes.
36:24
Speaker 5: And finally, you are always instructed to never aim a
36:28
Speaker 5: gun at anything or anyone you do not intend to kill.
36:31
Speaker 5: Alec Baldwin pointed that gun at Helena Hutchins and pulled
36:36
Speaker 5: the trigger. Guns do not go off by themselves. If
36:39
Speaker 5: this defense were allowed to stand, anybody ever charged with
36:43
Speaker 5: shooting or killing somebody with a firearm would point.
36:46
Speaker 4: To that defense. Whoops, gun went off by itself. Doesn't
36:50
Speaker 4: happen very quickly.
36:51
Speaker 1: You were running out of time, and I got to
36:53
Speaker 1: ask Dale, Carson Dale, I know this is against every
36:56
Speaker 1: fiber of your being as a trial lawyer, but orsus sincly. Okay,
37:02
Speaker 1: the state's got another problem of their own doing. I
37:05
Speaker 1: haven't earned anybody mention this yet, but remember, against my
37:09
Speaker 1: recommendation and many others, not just me, the state actually
37:14
Speaker 1: dropped charges against Baldwin early on.
37:19
Speaker 4: They're now claying we learned a tough lesson.
37:22
Speaker 1: Yeah, so now the defense can rightfully argue to the jury, Hey,
37:28
Speaker 1: they dropped the charges because they didn't believe in the charges.
37:32
Speaker 4: Now they're bringing them again.
37:35
Speaker 6: Well, actually they can actually bring witnesses who made that
37:39
Speaker 6: decision which pushed the government in an even less tenable situation,
37:44
Speaker 6: which is certainly what I would do. You'd want the
37:47
Speaker 6: rationale by not prosecuting.
37:50
Speaker 4: Johannes Chimwayno, what were you saying?
37:52
Speaker 6: Oh?
37:53
Speaker 11: I was saying many things in terms of again, Hannagutierra's
37:57
Speaker 11: reed has already been convicted of involuntary manslaughter. She will
38:01
Speaker 11: be the scapegoat, Nancy. So can we depend on the
38:06
Speaker 11: defense Council for Alec Balton coming in and using that
38:09
Speaker 11: as a means to get Alec Balton off the case. Absolutely,
38:14
Speaker 11: and that's what I anticipate what happen going into the
38:16
Speaker 11: case in July.
38:17
Speaker 1: Agree, Paul Zich, this is your jurisdiction. You are joining
38:21
Speaker 1: us from New Mexico. There, what's the word?
38:26
Speaker 10: The real problem that Alec Bowman has is the elements
38:29
Speaker 10: of this crime. Regardless of his status in Hollywood or
38:33
Speaker 10: you know how many actors he calls in for his defense,
38:36
Speaker 10: the burden of proof for this particular statute is very low,
38:41
Speaker 10: and the fact that the gun was in his hand statutorially,
38:46
Speaker 10: he's got a real problem and as such, he should
38:49
Speaker 10: take a plea deal. Is my my where I'm at
38:53
Speaker 10: on this, because I think he's he's going to have
38:55
Speaker 10: a real tough time convincing a jury that, in fact,
39:00
Speaker 10: he did not create a sequence of events that created
39:03
Speaker 10: this death. He was in the mix. There's no way
39:06
Speaker 10: to pull yourself.
39:07
Speaker 1: Out of this perfectly, said Paul Zike. Agree, guys, let's
39:11
Speaker 1: start with all the Alec Baldwin for just one moment
39:14
Speaker 1: and remember American hero Border Patrol agent Christopher Luna. Luna
39:20
Speaker 1: died with two New York National Guarden members protecting our country.
39:26
Speaker 1: He leaves behind his wife, Esmeralda, and two beautiful children,
39:31
Speaker 1: Sarah and Hayden. Agent Christopher Luna, American hero Nancy Gray
39:40
Speaker 1: signing off goodbye friend,