Latest / SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day! / Yoreh De’ah 230:1-232:3. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: With Hashem’s Name; Only By a Beis Din of 3 People; Motivational Vows

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Yoreh De’ah 230:1-232:3. Vows: Hataras Nedarim: With Hashem’s Name; Only By a Beis Din of 3 People; Motivational Vows · SHULCHAN ARUCH YOMI: Own the Halacha in 25 minutes a day!

• 0:01
  OK, good morning. Resh Lahmed.
• 0:03
  Resh lahmed sif aleph matirin shavuot U nadarim afila nishba
• 0:10
  vyaskara tashem. So we learned whether it's a
• 0:14
  good thing or a bad thing to make a Nader or shivua.
• 0:17
  But now we're discussing ataras nadarim.
• 0:20
  Now, once a person made a Shiva Nader, in general we said,
• 0:25
  right, there are certain times where it's only for a mitzvah or
• 0:28
  mdokhak, but generally we say you're allowed to do hataris
• 0:33
  nadarim. What happens if you make a neder
• 0:35
  A shivuah and you say it, you know, on God's name, al das
• 0:39
  amakam or al das, I'm sorry, not al das Amakam.
• 0:43
  You say on God's name exactly that.
• 0:46
  So then what's the halakhah? So it's not ideal to, it's not
• 0:51
  recommended to make such shivas, but a person did.
• 0:54
  Are you allowed to? So the halakhah is clear, you
• 0:57
  are allowed to, it is brought down the Mandama and the Gomara
• 1:02
  Nagaonim, some of the Rishonim that they're very much against
• 1:05
  doing Hataras and Nadarim, especially Bhaskar Tashem at all
• 1:10
  times unless it's the tsarek mitzvah.
• 1:13
  But we've asked in the halacha clearly that again, in general
• 1:17
  we don't recommend Natarim and Shivaos, but if one is made and
• 1:22
  it's for a devara shoot and there's no avera mitzvah
• 1:26
  involved, we always say it's matrilla khakila to do shavuas
• 1:29
  in adarium. In fact, we usually say you
• 1:32
  should do a Taras in Adarium on a random Nether and a Shiva
• 1:36
  because we don't want you to by accident be violated.
• 1:40
  But again, Gonium and some of the Rishonium and the Gomara
• 1:43
  were against doing it in general.
• 1:44
  Shalia Kelbad, you know, Dvarium.
• 1:47
  Otherwise nowadays everybody will just make an ad there and
• 1:49
  go to Ataris and Darium. So you want to make it
• 1:51
  difficult. So we mentioned sometimes post
• 1:54
  scheme. I think I was going to say it
• 1:56
  now. Inside in general.
• 2:03
  Yeah, here. I'm going to read it inside or
• 2:06
  I'll point it out in a moment. OK, so let's continue and I'll
• 2:12
  just say that many point out it's in the it's in the Shah and
• 2:16
  the Shulkhan and others, that individual rebellion.
• 2:20
  When they are when they do do Atarasandarian, it is a common
• 2:24
  phenomena that they make the person it's brought down in the
• 2:28
  Shah and olive, for example, from the Maharam mints that when
• 2:32
  they do Atara siddarium, they give some kind of a Kanas to the
• 2:36
  people. They make them fast or they make
• 2:38
  them like on a Monday or a Thursday, for example, or
• 2:43
  whatever. Maybe some kind of let's see a
• 2:46
  monetary Kanas that they have to give money to Sedaka so that in
• 2:51
  order to encourage people not to be to make nadayam just
• 2:56
  callously anyway. So that's Lafia as the Arafa
• 3:00
  Shokum points at Lafia Indian and according to the to the Rav.
• 3:04
  OK, anyways, we learn over here that it's mutter Lacatila in
• 3:08
  general. Fine Hagar Nicole Malcolm
• 3:15
  Loishal. I love Lacatila, I love me
• 3:17
  Dohak. So there are Ma agrees with what
• 3:20
  we said until now that you're allowed to, but he's saying if
• 3:24
  you use hashcarat Hashem. So then the Rama Lakhatila is
• 3:28
  more mahmar that you shouldn't do it unless you need to for a
• 3:32
  mitzvah or for dil khat. Michelle Hanarakhan Yakhshasov
• 3:35
  can say no even like hila. Even though you use Hashem's
• 3:38
  name you show you still can do it like hila.
• 3:42
  OK, call neder shesh bhatarato nignad avera in la tiro and then
• 3:50
  the Rama reminds us. But if there's a ninnad avera so
• 3:54
  then we don't do it unless you really need to.
• 3:58
  OK, Yesh omrin, call me shenishba shlola.
• 4:05
  So ASA davar kagon shenishba lolin shlolin kor Hafeez plony
• 4:09
  the avar una Caro in the machiro soklu Hoyo the avar al shvuatal.
• 4:16
  OK, so this is interesting, a combination of here of your idea
• 4:21
  and khoshin mishbat, because here you make a Ned there a
• 4:24
  shvua not to sell something and then you sold it.
• 4:27
  Is that sell that mahira is that sale and does it did it happen
• 4:34
  or do you have to give it back and get your money back?
• 4:37
  So here the Rama seems to say Yesh omri that it doesn't, it's
• 4:43
  not khal, the sale doesn't happen because you'll be
• 4:47
  violating the Shiva and you have to give it back.
• 4:49
  Interesting enough, the Rama in Khoshamishbat says it is a bona
• 4:54
  fide sale and it is khal and you don't have to give it back.
• 4:57
  And that is what generally most of the post games seem to say is
• 5:01
  the halaha. However.
• 5:04
  Well, let's put it like this. The TA says that is the halacha.
• 5:08
  The Araka Shokhan says that that's the halacha.
• 5:11
  But the Shah quotes the Bach and says it's a it's a Suffolk and
• 5:20
  over overriding would be Hamotzi Mekhaviro Alavaraya.
• 5:25
  So that's OK. Exactly how to What's the
• 5:29
  definition of some cachet? I'm never going to sell this
• 5:32
  person makes the shuwa. I'm making the shuwa that I'm
• 5:34
  not going to learn shuwa soon. But the lesson of a shuwa that
• 5:38
  I'm not going to sell this item to anybody.
• 5:41
  This is mine. I got it from my parents,
• 5:43
  whatever heirloom. I'm never selling this and makes
• 5:46
  the shuwa and then he goes and sells it to someone.
• 5:48
  Does does that sell binding or not?
• 5:53
  OK, so and Hoshi Amishva, that certainly is here.
• 5:56
  It's a little bit of a question, OK, And it's based on the the
• 6:03
  title says it's based. It's really not the same, but he
• 6:06
  says it is, right. He says it's based on a Gemara
• 6:11
  and Tamura. It's interesting and it's a
• 6:15
  whole discussion over there how it applies.
• 6:16
  And it's mahogas rava and abaya that says rahmanah E komai, the
• 6:20
  AMA rahmanah lota avid E avid LO mahani MIDI.
• 6:24
  Anytime God says to do some, not to do something, and you go
• 6:27
  ahead and do it, it doesn't really help.
• 6:29
  You know, it's a little bit. That whole sugya is really
• 6:32
  talking about doing mitzvahs. If you want to do a mitzvah the
• 6:35
  way Hashem commanded you to do it and then you did it
• 6:38
  differently. Well, it didn't really help
• 6:40
  because that's not the way it could have sparkle gave you the
• 6:43
  mitzvah. It's not what he wanted, so it
• 6:44
  doesn't accomplish anything. I and sham Lasovio over there,
• 6:48
  but it it does seem like that's Lumar says it's only talking
• 6:51
  about mitzvahs and pastas. As the taz says, it doesn't
• 6:53
  really apply to the salafa because you did an action of
• 6:56
  selling and it does count. But just interesting.
• 6:59
  Musser Haskell though, anytime you want to do a mitzvah or
• 7:02
  Kurdish barku, you have to do it according to the seaway of a
• 7:05
  Kurdish baraku. If you take an idea from a
• 7:08
  Kurdish baraku and you do it your way, it's mamish not the
• 7:11
  way God commands you to do it, then you're not really
• 7:13
  accomplish anything. So if you want to do a favor for
• 7:15
  a friend and help someone and you do it your way and it's
• 7:18
  really not the way he it's helpful for him, then you're not
• 7:22
  really helping him necessarily. So just you want to help someone
• 7:25
  and do it in a way that they'll appreciate it.
• 7:27
  OK Simon rish lahmed Alaf OK I know there altonai or Misha
• 7:34
  tolan nidro beda saharan. OK so now let's see about doing
• 7:40
  an neder on tanai right or someone else Alf in her neder
• 7:46
  shivua nitarim LLP mumaha or shloka.
• 7:52
  Now once you have a proper neder shivua let's call right it's
• 7:57
  binding. So then the only way out of it
• 8:00
  is by using what we learnt as a or three regular guys.
• 8:05
  In other words, that's how we do it.
• 8:06
  You get a base, then at least one of them has to know what's
• 8:08
  flying and three guys come together and they do a Taurus
• 8:12
  Adarin. Fine, right?
• 8:13
  Anytime you make a Nether a Shivuwa, you want to undo it.
• 8:16
  You have to do a Taurus Nadarin once it's hot.
• 8:18
  So that's what we're going to see.
• 8:19
  Shafilu piraehit Nabi shakta nedder.
• 8:23
  Let's say you say when I'm making the Nether or a Shivuwa.
• 8:27
  Emma Tai shiurtse Shi of Atleno MI Carl, you say I'm making
• 8:30
  another Eshuva, but I'm making a tanai in it that anytime I
• 8:34
  decide I want to go back on my nether Eshuva, I can I can take
• 8:37
  it back whenever I want. So no, that doesn't work because
• 8:41
  once it's Khal, you don't have a right, right.
• 8:46
  And so afterwards be Mevatolet, we're going to see you could
• 8:51
  make a Tanai that it's not Khali yet until your Tanai is Makayam.
• 8:58
  I think we're gonna we're gonna see it inside to make it more
• 9:01
  clear. Again, the principle is once
• 9:04
  it's hull and it's binding, there's no way out without doing
• 9:08
  Ataris Nadarn, right? Or obviously if you put a
• 9:11
  expiration date on your Ned, there is Shavua, then that's
• 9:13
  when it ends. But just to sever it whenever
• 9:17
  you feel like it, that's not going to work unless we're
• 9:19
  talking about how far like harem from the Seabor or a husband or
• 9:23
  a father when it applies. OK, let's see inside Emma Tai
• 9:27
  Shiatsu's enemy. Carl.
• 9:28
  That's not going to work. Oh, Shiktalla.
• 9:31
  The author or you. You are you make your neder
• 9:35
  Shiva dependent on somebody else.
• 9:39
  Shiva Glen. Emma Tai Shiatsu, you say this,
• 9:42
  I'm making another, but I'm appointing I don't know, Gershon
• 9:46
  over here and he whenever he decides my nether is over, then
• 9:49
  it's over. So that doesn't work in a cum.
• 9:53
  It's nothing. The Miyad kisha khala nether in
• 9:56
  Lo Hatara. As soon as you make the nether,
• 9:59
  there's no attara for it, unless you have the proper attara.
• 10:06
  Like we said, the filo into the old badass, the kiyomo, the shuv
• 10:12
  nishal al akhiyum enomoyum. Let's say you make it dependent
• 10:18
  on Ramosha and you say it's only going to be ha.
• 10:24
  If Ramosha agrees for that, this is an acceptable shuvu.
• 10:28
  I'm saying I'm making another shuvu on a contingency that he
• 10:31
  thinks this is appropriate for me.
• 10:33
  He okays it and then it's ha and then I but I also want him to be
• 10:37
  able to cancel my nether and Shiva whenever he wants to.
• 10:40
  Doesn't work. It's called, but he can't cancel
• 10:44
  it for you because an additional tonight that someone could be
• 10:48
  cancelling it for you after it starts never works.
• 10:52
  It's works that it prevents it from starting.
• 10:55
  If you want it, we're going to I think we're going to see it
• 10:57
  again in the Rama. You can make it that he's the
• 11:00
  one who's a Macaim it for you. You can make it that it's called
• 11:05
  conditional to any condition like somebody else, but then
• 11:10
  once it's called then you are stuck with it until you do
• 11:13
  Ataris and Darian. Yeah.
• 11:20
  In other words, you decide, your friend decides.
• 11:23
  I want to undo my kiyum. I approved it.
• 11:26
  You can't undo your approval. Once it's called, it's called
• 11:29
  Haba Haba. But if he didn't approve it,
• 11:33
  Umiya Shashamo Amar Shaloya Neder.
• 11:37
  But once he hears about it and he doesn't approve it.
• 11:39
  And when you said then you can right now, of course he could be
• 11:43
  Mevatala Shiloya Neder, another battell.
• 11:45
  He says it's not Khal and it's Battella Gomery from the from
• 11:48
  the IT never even started. OK, And you can do it in any
• 11:52
  language. Obviously the shock points out.
• 11:56
  OK, fine. The Khala chicane in hidden
• 12:01
  buffet with Shakavera yuka Lovato Yuka Lovato Khala Neder.
• 12:07
  So of course you can. If he's honest.
• 12:09
  You specify that he could cancel it before it starts.
• 12:11
  Then your friend can cancel it anytime before it starts.
• 12:15
  But that's to be before it's helped meal IME nadar azman
• 12:21
  ainsari khatara alakashiagiya azman batalman Meena.
• 12:25
  Right, so that's what we said. If you put an expiration date,
• 12:27
  you say I'm making another shibua for 30 days or a year,
• 12:31
  whatever it is, then as soon as that was 30 days or a year is
• 12:34
  up, whatever you said, then that's what it is.
• 12:37
  And it it expires by itself. And you don't need to do ataras
• 12:41
  nadarim ET all 'cause it was never, it was never nadora
• 12:45
  shivua for longer. That's that's what it was.
• 12:48
  OK, Simon Reish lahmed Bett Dean nidre ziruzin vahava vuchkagas.
• 12:57
  OK, this this Simon is primarily well, let's yeah, there's a
• 13:06
  mission of the beginning, the words, the beginning of the
• 13:08
  Mishnah and paragimal of Nadarium starts out Arba
• 13:11
  nadarium, Hitiru hakamim. There are four types that Khazal
• 13:16
  said are mutter, four types in nadarium that are mutter that
• 13:19
  you don't even it means you don't even need to do Hataris
• 13:21
  nadarium in the first place. In other words, it's not a nadir
• 13:24
  or a Shiva. So let's read Olive.
• 13:27
  They give 4. We're going to see that in
• 13:30
  olive. And then he adds another
• 13:32
  example. OK, another category.
• 13:36
  Yesh nadari shain srikun hatara right.
• 13:39
  So asan nadaram, you don't have to do attara at all.
• 13:41
  Nidre zerosin motivational vows. It was never it was never
• 13:46
  another. It was just a motivational.
• 13:48
  A motivational vowel means it was just words said to motivate
• 13:51
  people, but it wasn't never intended.
• 13:55
  Peeve and Libo have to be shoving.
• 13:58
  Your heart, your intentions and your words.
• 14:01
  They have to be on the same page.
• 14:03
  They have to be right. They have to match so and
• 14:06
  everyone knows that it doesn't match.
• 14:09
  Dvarim should believe Enum. Dvarim is generally when it's
• 14:12
  not, when it's when it's your when, when we don't, when we
• 14:16
  don't know. Anytime we everybody listening
• 14:19
  to you assumes that Libo and and Peeve are not shoving.
• 14:25
  So then then then they're not. It's not called.
• 14:29
  But if it's if everyone assumes that you're being sincere and
• 14:33
  only you in your mind. So that's when we say perhaps
• 14:37
  that's when that's so we learned quite a while ago about Dwarim,
• 14:40
  Shibbolev and Dwarim. So let's let's read over here
• 14:43
  where everyone agrees it's not a Ned there at all.
• 14:46
  And you don't need a Taras Naddarim at all.
• 14:48
  So that's the first category. Nidre Havai is the next one.
• 14:52
  These are exaggerated vows when you say an exaggeration in it.
• 14:56
  The Shokanare is going to bring examples for all four and some
• 14:59
  details. Nidre is Chicago's whenever you
• 15:02
  make a unwitting or a mistaken vow, Nidre Onsen whenever you
• 15:07
  make a neder that's based on some kind of circumstances
• 15:12
  beyond one's control. You didn't anticipate such a
• 15:16
  thing. OK, the Hatola, the 5th category
• 15:20
  over here, the Hatola Vedova Veloniskayan.
• 15:24
  When you kind of just had this, when you make it conditional on
• 15:27
  something that's going to be that something's going to
• 15:31
  happen. Well, you make a conditional,
• 15:35
  you make a nether for a particular reason and you
• 15:38
  specify that reason, but that reason never happened.
• 15:42
  It's I don't know, maybe it's a subcategory of Chicago's, but
• 15:45
  let's let's see it as we read it inside.
• 15:48
  OK, Bet Nidre Zeruzin. What's a motivational nether
• 15:54
  That's not called Keitzar? You want to sell something,
• 15:59
  right? Two guys negotiating and so you
• 16:03
  have a seller and a buyer and the seller says we have Marcona
• 16:07
  Malaiki Karzai hot meat seller. I'm going to make a a neder on
• 16:13
  this piece of bread and I'm not going to eat it like, you know,
• 16:16
  you tell the guy, you know what? I'm not budging from my price.
• 16:20
  I'm not budging from a seller and if it's going to go up to a
• 16:24
  cella, then I'm making a nether that this piece of bread is
• 16:27
  ushered to me. So the guy knows there's no
• 16:30
  chance that he's going to get it for less than a cella.
• 16:34
  So he's only saying this and this is a way, this is a Derek
• 16:39
  of Masao Matan. People negotiate.
• 16:42
  That's the way it was done and everyone knows that he is not
• 16:46
  taking his nether seriously. He's just trying to make a point
• 16:49
  that don't think he's going to sell it for less than a cella,
• 16:52
  the almora loquia konam Ki Karzai.
• 16:55
  You must see for shackle. And he and the buyer says, yeah,
• 16:58
  well, I'm making a neder on a on this item, this piece of bread
• 17:03
  that I'm not going to budget less or more than a shackle.
• 17:08
  No, we're going to see a seller is 4 dinar and a shackle is 2
• 17:13
  dinar. So they're arguing about right,
• 17:15
  the spread of two dinars. OK, half a shack of let's keep
• 17:24
  reading Vinita Tsushinay and Vishlosa Dinarim.
• 17:27
  And then they finally come up. They finally agreed to settle at
• 17:32
  3/4 or three Dinarim somewhere right in between what they both
• 17:36
  said. Oh, but Papa me out.
• 17:38
  Oh yeah, tear me out. And the Rama says or a little
• 17:40
  bit or a bit, a bit more, a bit less.
• 17:43
  It's more shy after what he's going to say on the next page,
• 17:46
  which is not which is not really lahalacha MI Cardin.
• 17:50
  So anyways, it's point is the final price is actually
• 17:54
  different. Yeah, on both of what they said,
• 17:58
  correct, Correct. They violated both of what they
• 18:00
  said. But the point is LO nessar shum
• 18:04
  ekhad Mahan. None of them are us.
• 18:06
  Or in other words, the Val never took place.
• 18:09
  It was never a nether chicane. Der Khatagarim leader Lishava
• 18:12
  kadila azaris havero the aim bilibo leshum neder.
• 18:17
  Because that's how they talk. That's how negotiators talk.
• 18:20
  They start threatening each other and everyone knows that
• 18:23
  they're just doing it to try and scare or, you know, to convince
• 18:27
  the other one. And neither one of them ever had
• 18:30
  a mind to make any kind of Shivoi.
• 18:32
  Now, as we're about to read, it becomes a little bit
• 18:36
  questionable. Exactly how far do you take it?
• 18:40
  OK, let's read the Rama for example.
• 18:45
  OK, even though we know that they're only doing it to
• 18:52
  motivate each other, but they can't.
• 19:00
  Neither one of them can stick to their exact price.
• 19:03
  Otherwise we assume that he was serious.
• 19:07
  There's we don't, we don't always know or we don't, it's
• 19:10
  not always clear how serious he is.
• 19:12
  So if he didn't get to his exaggerated or extreme price,
• 19:17
  then we know that it was that it was just as motivational.
• 19:23
  But if you see at the end of the day, he, one of them didn't
• 19:25
  budget from the seller or the Shaka and the other one had to
• 19:28
  give him 100%. So then that is, then that is
• 19:33
  binding. Biesh Mckeeling only on, right,
• 19:41
  Only on one of them. But we'll see.
• 19:46
  Anyway, at the end of the day, just to keep things simple,
• 19:49
  Biesh Mckeeling and the other opinion, it says it's not that
• 19:52
  there, it doesn't matter. Whatever it is that everyone
• 19:55
  knows you didn't take it seriously.
• 19:57
  And that's what's the shock on the Taz and the Bach.
• 20:00
  We all say Lahalacha. It doesn't matter even if one of
• 20:05
  them doesn't budget, we assume that everybody is not binding
• 20:10
  and we're going to see that again in the Shokhanar.
• 20:13
  Vidalka Kishaima meeting the frame Elisha Shneem Nitratsu
• 20:17
  Bishlocha Dinarian. Now that's if that's if they
• 20:23
  both agreed to to Redinarian Aval Imlonat Nitratsu, our
• 20:28
  Zebasella Zeba Shekhar, we need to bat al hameka vadai leneder
• 20:34
  gamor itkafnu vahal haneder. So then it depends.
• 20:38
  Wait, if they both won't budget so then it so then we see that
• 20:45
  they were actually both very serious because nobody sold it
• 20:48
  and no, none of them budged. So it wasn't just to motivate
• 20:52
  each other. They, they meant it and they
• 20:53
  didn't budget one iota from their net there.
• 20:56
  So that means they're exactly serious and, and meant it.
• 21:02
  Well, they, they were stubborn and they're, and that's what
• 21:04
  their nether was. So we assumed that they were
• 21:06
  stubborn like their nether and therefore their nether.
• 21:08
  They, they meant it. They meant what they said and
• 21:12
  therefore they didn't go through the deal because they kept to
• 21:17
  their nether. So you see that their nether was
• 21:19
  called Vikhomi, Shiavor Allah, Venidro, Hare, Hilo, Dvarov and
• 21:24
  any one of them. Now if they violate their nether
• 21:27
  and they eat the bread, whatever the nether they made, then they
• 21:29
  are then they were it's allowed. They violated.
• 21:34
  The shock says again. This is where it gets a little
• 21:37
  confusing. I don't want to get too
• 21:38
  confusing. The shock says it's only a, it's
• 21:43
  only a they're only violated their nether if they adopt A
• 21:48
  Kishimohara. Kharkar was Zelokea.
• 21:51
  It's only if they sell it to him afterwards or for that price if
• 21:57
  they violate it later on and they I'm not exactly sure how
• 22:00
  you apply what he's saying, but if you do sell it to somebody
• 22:04
  else, you can say my nether was it was only for that person, for
• 22:08
  that person. I stuck to that to my guns for
• 22:11
  for that price, but for someone else I was I'm willing to pay
• 22:15
  more, you know or sell it for more for less with for different
• 22:18
  people is also if you stick around for a month and it
• 22:21
  doesn't sell. I don't know.
• 22:22
  I don't know exactly how you apply all these details.
• 22:25
  Not always 100 the EMF Hadhemi Devarav, the Hashemi Lohemi.
• 22:30
  So let's say at the end of the day, they're negotiating and one
• 22:33
  of them sticks to you know, whatever his seller, then the
• 22:36
  other one doesn't stick to his Sheco or vice versa.
• 22:39
  So then one of them we see was Makai and his nether per SE, and
• 22:44
  one of them doesn't. But then we still say we talking
• 22:47
  to Battel the Echrad ET Battel gam Lacheni because they were
• 22:52
  they were saying these in a dime to each other and it was a
• 22:56
  little bit dependent on upon each other.
• 22:58
  But if otherwise we say the whole thing falls apart because
• 23:02
  admiring Bastam, this is only Bastam.
• 23:05
  If they don't specify, what do we mean about him?
• 23:08
  Only Mshu and Neder. But if they tell you no, no, we
• 23:13
  meant a real nether. And I was very serious.
• 23:16
  Now I changed my mind because I got desperate to write someone
• 23:19
  convinced me otherwise. But when I said it, I meant it.
• 23:22
  Then we don't say it. It was nidre xerozine that it's
• 23:26
  a Naz cow, because he tells you explicitly that I meant it.
• 23:30
  And I because doesn't matter that everybody else in the room
• 23:34
  or that seaboard wouldn't, you know, go ahead with such
• 23:37
  another. He did and he said he did.
• 23:39
  So we trust him and therefore it is a nether, OK.
• 23:43
  It's only a stump. If he didn't tell you otherwise,
• 23:46
  we assume it's not OK. Now the IMEM Mocher Amar Konam
• 23:52
  Imethodaka Miyoterami seller. So then here if the buyer and
• 24:01
  the seller, they they don't say the word sella or shekel, one of
• 24:06
  them says a little bit more one of them than a sella, one says a
• 24:08
  little bit less than a shekel, venetraxu, bishlocha dinarim,
• 24:12
  and then they settle for three dinarim.
• 24:15
  In other words, based on their words of their nadarim, of what
• 24:18
  they said, they both violated it and they came up with this
• 24:21
  middle ground. Hari is another, I don't know.
• 24:24
  So here we say it was another Shane, Derek Lazaris,
• 24:28
  Kashimaflegin Kokak laneder gomorr nitkavnu.
• 24:33
  So This is why I say it's a little difficult to know exactly
• 24:36
  how to apply it. And we'll see even more so when
• 24:40
  we the end of the Roman Gilma. You'll see even more so how it's
• 24:44
  a little bit difficult to apply here.
• 24:48
  If they went beyond this, the spread of of a of 1/2 a shekel,
• 24:54
  half a shekel 1 dinar. They went beyond the spread
• 24:57
  right at 3/4 and they specified even more so.
• 25:01
  So we say if there's they're going to such an extreme to make
• 25:05
  another. So the fact that they're going
• 25:08
  to such an extreme, then we say, no, no, no, then we know that
• 25:12
  they're serious. Any, I mean, I think it's any
• 25:15
  time where we, we, we can all agree that people wouldn't talk
• 25:20
  like that unless he means it. So then it's called.
• 25:23
  And then if any case where we know that people talk as a, as a
• 25:27
  motivational with extremes. So then I remember once somebody
• 25:30
  saying it's actually more shocked later on he was or
• 25:33
  somebody was describing somebody else and he goes, that guy is so
• 25:37
  rich. He has more money than God
• 25:39
  himself. So I mean, but we're going to
• 25:40
  see a closer example to there. But I'm just anytime you say
• 25:44
  something or whatever, whatever the case is, whatever is
• 25:46
  understandable. Haggah Nader le schneim
• 25:50
  shirotzim liknot mimeno the almer le echad mikim laneder
• 25:54
  gomorg givanti. OK, so a person makes another to
• 25:59
  to two a person. There's two people who want to
• 26:02
  buy something. He makes another and he turns to
• 26:04
  one of them and says another gomorg company Echad Luzin and
• 26:09
  he says no to you. When I said my nether, I meant
• 26:12
  it as a real nether and to you I meant it only to motivate us us
• 26:16
  cave ancha nether Batala Gabe echa Batala Gabe Shani who say
• 26:21
  if you said it, but you said the nether to both of them and
• 26:25
  afterwards at the same time and afterwards you try and explain
• 26:28
  yourself. Well, you know this is what I
• 26:31
  meant. So then hoyel Vanekra and nether
• 26:34
  echa sorry Batal Hashani. So they they both it doesn't
• 26:38
  matter since you're saying one of them was batal and we assume
• 26:41
  one, but that that they were batal then it affected trying to
• 26:44
  explain how you meant for one thing and the other person the
• 26:47
  other way. It doesn't matter and it's
• 26:49
  called called 1 echad one net there and the whole thing is
• 26:52
  batal. OK Gilman Hamasmin ET haviero
• 26:55
  Shiokhal emo. A person invites his friend to
• 26:59
  eat with him. Umizarev and they and he doesn't
• 27:03
  really want to. I mean he's like whatever, being
• 27:05
  polite, not polite. He's trying to get out of it.
• 27:08
  Umadiro and he says a neder Ino Ochel emo if he doesn't eat with
• 27:14
  him the the inviter and says if you don't eat with him, I'm
• 27:18
  making a neder and I'm making a konam, I'm making a korban, a
• 27:26
  neder on an object or whatever it is or and I'm not going to
• 27:30
  get any hana from you if you don't come over.
• 27:34
  I'm inviting you. You don't let me host you and
• 27:39
  you don't come and eat a hot piece of bread with cold water.
• 27:44
  And he says I'm sorry, I don't want to come.
• 27:47
  I'm not available. So you're trying to get him to
• 27:50
  come and you're saying yeah, I want you so much to come.
• 27:53
  I'm making a nether if you don't come.
• 27:55
  And he still says no, I raise the nether shell zeros.
• 27:58
  It's only a motivational, but you said it only to get him to
• 28:02
  come, and we say that's not a nether, OK.
• 28:05
  It's not 'cause we assume that you didn't mean it to make a
• 28:10
  real nether. You only said it to encourage
• 28:12
  and motivate your friend to come of all in zooming Ruvin the
• 28:15
  Shimon. If Ruvin invites Shimon to come,
• 28:19
  you Mazmini Ruben invites Shaman.
• 28:23
  And then there's another family that's inviting Shaman, another
• 28:26
  fighting over who to invite for Shabbos or for your Purim Sudha.
• 28:30
  You're fighting over the same the same guests, So he says.
• 28:34
  So Ruben invites him. And then Sherman says, you know,
• 28:36
  someone else is also inviting me.
• 28:38
  So the cafe. Now Sherman really wants to eat
• 28:43
  with Ruvin, right? He knows where he wants to go
• 28:46
  for the Purim Suda the O Merlo Haji radium gaddish.
• 28:52
  You have cereal Biba makkom chalo, you have cereal Biba
• 28:55
  makkom akher hariza neder gammon.
• 28:58
  So you say I'm making a neder, right?
• 29:01
  It doesn't, as Attaz points out. I mean, the Gemara has its case,
• 29:04
  but it doesn't matter who's making the neder, Uwein or
• 29:07
  Shimlin. The two of them are basically
• 29:08
  making a neder between the two of them because they want to eat
• 29:12
  together and they don't. They don't know how to tell this
• 29:14
  third person to, you know, no. So you make a neder that if you
• 29:19
  don't eat with me, if Schumann doesn't go to Rehuven, then he's
• 29:23
  violating a nether. So now Schumann can tell the
• 29:26
  other person, oh, you know, I can't because this guy already
• 29:30
  made a nether. If I don't come, it's going to
• 29:32
  make a whole to do. It's a whole problem.
• 29:34
  So then that's how you get out. So that is a real nether.
• 29:38
  That's not xerozine. We call that a real nether.
• 29:42
  And they both wanted it to happen to scare someone else.
• 29:44
  And it's not to motivate each other.
• 29:46
  They both were motivated on their own.
• 29:48
  Haga now like I just points out, as I kind of said, the EIN
• 29:52
  lamedi Medina nidre 0 Zeila Malcolm Acher, we don't really
• 29:56
  try and extrapolate or make comparisons from one nether to
• 30:00
  another when it comes to motivational what's khal and not
• 30:04
  what's not Khal shayn laka Bahama shammu khalmim because we
• 30:08
  only have what khalmim said and otherwise it's kind of unclear.