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Mike Pence · The David Rubenstein Show

• 0:02
  Speaker 1: Every American remembers where they were on January sixth, twenty
• 0:05
  Speaker 1: twenty one, but no American probably was more at the
• 0:08
  Speaker 1: center of attention on that day than Mike Pence. I
• 0:11
  Speaker 1: had a chance racing to sit down with him to
• 0:13
  Speaker 1: talk about the epic events of January sixth, twenty twenty one,
• 0:16
  Speaker 1: his career as a lifelong political figure, and his current activities.
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  Speaker 1: You've been a governor of Indiana for ten years, a
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  Speaker 1: Member of Congress from Indiana, and Vice President of the United
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  Speaker 1: States for four years. So are you thinking about possibly
• 0:31
  Speaker 1: running again or you've had enough elective offices?
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  Speaker 2: You know.
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  Speaker 3: I'm I like to say I never say never, but
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  Speaker 3: I can tell you, David, my focus right now is
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  Speaker 3: really on trying to be a.
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  Speaker 2: Voice for the conservative values.
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  Speaker 3: That have really animated my career over the last forty years,
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  Speaker 3: and the foundation I created after we left Washington, d C.
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  Speaker 3: Called Advancing American Freedom is really committed to those those
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  Speaker 3: is a Barry Goldwater, Ronald Reagan, George Bush principles that
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  Speaker 3: really also guided the Trump Pence administration of a strong defense,
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  Speaker 3: limited government, fiscal responsibility, traditional values, and so whatever the
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  Speaker 3: future holds for me, I'm going to continue to seek
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  Speaker 3: to be a champion for those principles that I think
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  Speaker 3: have always made this country strong and prosperous and free.
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  Speaker 1: So the organization is called Advancing American Freedom and it
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  Speaker 1: where is it based.
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  Speaker 2: It's based right here in Washington, d C.
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  Speaker 3: I live in Indiana, so I'm a commuter to Washington,
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  Speaker 3: but got a terrific and a growing team of principal
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  Speaker 3: conservative men and women who are putting out the kind
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  Speaker 3: of work that other organizations in the past provided in
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  Speaker 3: the city when I was in Congress and as a
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  Speaker 3: governor and an our administration. But there are less of
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  Speaker 3: those voices today, and so we've emerged, I think as
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  Speaker 3: one of the leading voices for traditional conservative thought.
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  Speaker 2: And I'm very humbled by that, but also see a
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  Speaker 2: great responsibility to it.
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  Speaker 4: Now.
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  Speaker 1: One of the conservative organizations that's been very popular among
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  Speaker 1: conservatives in Washington for many years is the Heritage Foundation,
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  Speaker 1: and recently a number of people have left the Heritage
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  Speaker 1: Foundation and joining your organization.
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  Speaker 4: Was that a surprise to you?
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  Speaker 3: We were very moved that they were inspired by our
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  Speaker 3: example and our consistent commitment to principle to come our way.
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  Speaker 2: But in another sense, I wasn't that surprised.
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  Speaker 3: I have seen a shift in the conservative movement really
• 2:34
  Speaker 3: since President Trump's returned to active politics and ultimately his
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  Speaker 3: successful campaign, where some are walking away from the Republican
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  Speaker 3: Party's commitment to America being leader.
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  Speaker 2: Of the free world.
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  Speaker 3: Some are walking away to our commitment to limited government
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  Speaker 3: and even marginalizing the right to life. And the folks
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  Speaker 3: that came our way I saw as an endorsement of
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  Speaker 3: them wanting to be a part of a team that
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  Speaker 3: is continuing to stand on that broad mainstream conservative agenda
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  Speaker 3: that's to find the Republican Party for the better part
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  Speaker 3: of seventy years.
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  Speaker 1: Today, as we talk, two issues have arisen where I
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  Speaker 1: would say the Republican support is not as strong as
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  Speaker 1: it has been before.
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  Speaker 4: One of them deals with Greenland.
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  Speaker 1: Why do you think so many Republicans on Capitol Hill say,
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  Speaker 1: don't get involved with trying militarily to take over Greenland.
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  Speaker 3: Well, David, I think you just put a fine point
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  Speaker 3: on it, which is what I hear objections to, is
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  Speaker 3: the notion that we would ever use military force against
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  Speaker 3: a NATO ally. Denmark is a NATO ally and Greenland
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  Speaker 3: is a part of their of their title and control,
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  Speaker 3: if you will, as a territory.
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  Speaker 2: I think there's a great case.
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  Speaker 3: For acquiring Greenland, and I fully support the president's ultimate objective.
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  Speaker 3: I think there's a national security case for it. The
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  Speaker 3: Arctic is becoming enormously important. The ability to expand there
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  Speaker 3: would be very important to the United States and our
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  Speaker 3: security interests in the region. I expect there's also significant
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  Speaker 3: economic interest in terms of mineral development. I know what
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  Speaker 3: a student of history you are, but it was Abraham Lincoln,
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  Speaker 3: Secretary of State, who was the first one to recommend
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  Speaker 3: that we purchased green One, and so it is an
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  Speaker 3: idea one hundred and fifty years in the making.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about another issue that seems to have divided
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  Speaker 1: Republicans a bit, and that's Venezuela. With the effort to
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  Speaker 1: take Maduro out. Are there many people on Capitol Hill,
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  Speaker 1: including some Republicans, who think that a war Powers resolution
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  Speaker 1: making clear what the president's real ability to do and
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  Speaker 1: not do with military troops should be clarified. Do you
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  Speaker 1: have any view on Venezuela.
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  Speaker 2: Well.
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  Speaker 3: When I was serving alongside President Trump, he tasked me
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  Speaker 3: to take the lead from time to time in America
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  Speaker 3: and the President and I were able to marshal some
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  Speaker 3: sixty nations around the world to recognize him as the
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  Speaker 3: legitimate president of Venezuela. It was one of the disappointments
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  Speaker 3: of our first term that Maduro survived the Trump Pence administration,
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  Speaker 3: and so I commend President Trump for taking military action
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  Speaker 3: to bring Maduro to justice.
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  Speaker 2: Here in the United States.
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  Speaker 3: Armed forces responded brilliantly, and I think now we have
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  Speaker 3: an opportunity to move Venezuela forward toward free and fair
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  Speaker 3: elections and a restoration of the kind of market principles
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  Speaker 3: that made Venezuela once the second most prosperous nation in
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  Speaker 3: our hemisphere. I fully support the president's action if it
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  Speaker 3: was to go far beyond that, if there was a
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  Speaker 3: direct military confrontation, I think the authorization and for the
• 6:00
  Speaker 3: use of force vote and Congress will be appropriate. But
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  Speaker 3: I think at this point the President has operated fully
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  Speaker 3: within his responsibility and authority.
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  Speaker 1: Another issue that has I think united some Republicans maybe
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  Speaker 1: in opposition to some of what President Trump wants to do,
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  Speaker 1: and I'll just be curious if you can comment on it,
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  Speaker 1: is the chairman of the Federal Reserve Board. President Trump
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  Speaker 1: hasn't been that happy with him, and now there appears
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  Speaker 1: to be maybe a criminal investigation of him for cost
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  Speaker 1: overruns supposedly in the Federal Reserve building as it's being reconstructed.
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  Speaker 1: Are you surprised that Republicans on Capitol Hill have said
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  Speaker 1: they aren't going to confirm anybody until this issue to
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  Speaker 1: replace j. Powell until this issue is satisfactly resolved.
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  Speaker 3: I don't think that the American people want some pristine
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  Speaker 3: independence and untouchable Federal Reserve by the elected president or
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  Speaker 3: the elected representatives of the American people. I was disappointed
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  Speaker 3: to see the headlines about subpoenas having been issued. If
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  Speaker 3: there needs to be a review of that construction project,
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  Speaker 3: it seems like that because should happen in an orderly way.
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  Speaker 3: I'm not terribly surprised to see leading Republicans in the
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  Speaker 3: Senate express their concern about that. Let's hold the Fed accountable.
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  Speaker 3: The President can express his opinion. I think that new
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  Speaker 3: leadership at the Federal Reserve would be good for our
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  Speaker 3: economy and good for the country. But it was disappointed
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  Speaker 3: to see that development.
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  Speaker 1: Let's talk about what you will probably be remembered for
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  Speaker 1: the rest of your life. As you know the events
• 7:39
  Speaker 1: of January sixth, on twenty twenty one will probably be
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  Speaker 1: the date that you will always be remembered for because
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  Speaker 1: you agreed to have a vote account and you approve
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  Speaker 1: the votes that came in from the States, in effect
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  Speaker 1: saying that you had not been re elected as vice
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  Speaker 1: president and President Trump had not been re elected as president,
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  Speaker 1: and you obviously had a disagreement with President Trump over
• 8:06
  Speaker 1: that was that the hardest day of your life because
• 8:09
  Speaker 1: you had to disagree with the president and also because
• 8:12
  Speaker 1: people were trying to take your life.
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  Speaker 3: David, January sixth was a tragic day. But I'll always believed,
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  Speaker 3: by God's grace that I did my duty that day
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  Speaker 3: to see to the peaceful transfer of power under the
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  Speaker 3: Constitution of the United States. But it was a difficult day.
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  Speaker 3: I don't know if it was the hardest day I've
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  Speaker 3: ever faced. The day my dad left this earth was
• 8:40
  Speaker 3: an awfully hard day, and that was not to be
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  Speaker 3: compared to those moments. But it was difficult. President Trump
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  Speaker 3: and I had a good working relationship for four years.
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  Speaker 3: I'd like to say he was not just my president,
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  Speaker 3: he was my friend. It was a fluid relationship. The
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  Speaker 3: President gave me extraordinary opportunities to champion our agenda on
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  Speaker 3: Capitol Hill, around the country, represent America around the world.
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  Speaker 2: So the fact that we reached an impasse on.
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  Speaker 3: My duty on January sixth was difficult, But I thought
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  Speaker 3: my duty was clear.
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  Speaker 4: In your book, So help me God.
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  Speaker 1: You talk about the fact that after a few days
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  Speaker 1: after the election was over and you had the count
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  Speaker 1: and President Trump wasn't happy, but he wasn't going to
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  Speaker 1: be able to stay in office, you met with him
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  Speaker 1: and he didn't yell or scream or he just had
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  Speaker 1: a very friendly conversation. Can you recount what that was like.
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  Speaker 3: I think it's because the President and I have gone
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  Speaker 3: our separate ways in the last several years. I think
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  Speaker 3: it comes as a surprise to people to remember that
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  Speaker 3: we actually parted very amicably on January twentieth, twenty twenty one.
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  Speaker 4: But it.
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  Speaker 3: Unfolded in those days immediately after January six Now, I'll
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  Speaker 3: be honest with you, David. You you asked if I
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  Speaker 3: had well what my emotions were at the Capitol on
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  Speaker 3: January six I can tell you I wasn't afraid, but
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  Speaker 3: I was angry. I was angry at what I saw.
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  Speaker 3: I was angry seeing people, you know, desecrating the seat
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  Speaker 3: of our government. I remember thinking, you know, not this,
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  Speaker 3: not here, not in America. Well, it was a day
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  Speaker 3: of tragedy. Because of the Capitol Hill Police, who were
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  Speaker 3: the heroes that day, the violence was quelled and leaders
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  Speaker 3: in both political parties reconvened the very same day and
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  Speaker 3: completed our work for the peaceful transfer of power. I
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  Speaker 3: remember in one of our last conversations he still seemed
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  Speaker 3: very dejected and very down, and I looked at him
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  Speaker 3: and I told him and I said, well, I'm you know, I'm.
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  Speaker 2: Praying for you.
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  Speaker 3: And when I got up to leave the meeting a
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  Speaker 3: little bit later, I said, you know, I guess there's
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  Speaker 3: probably two things that were always going to disagree on.
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  Speaker 3: And he looked up faintly from where he was seated
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  Speaker 3: at the dining room table and said, what's that. And
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  Speaker 3: I said, well, I get the impression we're never going
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  Speaker 3: to agree on my duty on January sixth, and I said,
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  Speaker 3: and I'm never going to stop praying for you.
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  Speaker 2: And he looked up with.
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  Speaker 3: A faint smile and said, that's right, Mike, don't ever change.
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  Speaker 1: Let's go back to the beginning of your career. You
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  Speaker 1: were born in Indiana. I was what did your father
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  Speaker 1: and mother do?
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  Speaker 3: Yeah, my dad was a businessman. He ended up running
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  Speaker 3: a gasoline station business, but uh, several hundred stations across
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  Speaker 3: southern Indiana. Self made man, lived the American dream. My
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  Speaker 3: mom was a second generation Irish American. My dad a
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  Speaker 3: combat veteran. And I tell people I feel like I
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  Speaker 3: grew up on the footstool of the American dream.
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  Speaker 4: And you're growing up. You went to college where.
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  Speaker 3: Little college on the Ohio River in Indiana called Hanover College,
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  Speaker 3: and then Indiana University for law school. But I always
• 12:23
  Speaker 3: had an interest from the time I was a little
• 12:24
  Speaker 3: boy in politics and in public service. I was deeply
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  Speaker 3: inspired by the life the example of President John F.
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  Speaker 3: Kennedy and the Reverend doctor Martin Luther King Junior, and
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  Speaker 3: they still inspire me to this day.
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  Speaker 1: Well, after law school, you practiced law, did little, but
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  Speaker 1: then you actually got a radio talk show and you
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  Speaker 1: became well known for that among other things. And you
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  Speaker 1: were involved in a policy institute in Indiana. And then
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  Speaker 1: in nineteen eighty eight, I think you ran for Congress.
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  Speaker 4: Did you win overwhelmingly?
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  Speaker 2: We came close, and then not so much two years later.
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  Speaker 1: Right, So after eighty eight you lost and you said, well,
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  Speaker 1: what's the best thing to do. I'll run again in
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  Speaker 1: nineteen ninety, and you lost again.
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  Speaker 4: I did so.
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  Speaker 1: I assume at the end of that election you said
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  Speaker 1: I've had enough of politics.
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  Speaker 3: Well, or politics had had enough of me. I I
• 13:23
  Speaker 3: just had a feeling that that dream was gone, the
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  Speaker 3: dream of being the congressman from my hometown.
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  Speaker 1: So, after a gap of ten years from being an
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  Speaker 1: elected trying to be an elected official, you run your
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  Speaker 1: two thousand and you won.
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  Speaker 4: I did so when you.
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  Speaker 1: Got to Congress, was it as good as you thought
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  Speaker 1: it was going to be? And was it worth that
• 13:44
  Speaker 1: long effort to get there?
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  Speaker 3: It was a great privilege from me and a dream
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  Speaker 3: come true. I never imagined I could be governor of
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  Speaker 3: the state I grew up in, or serve as vice president,
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  Speaker 3: But Congress was the dream of my youth, and I'll
• 13:59
  Speaker 3: always consider it to have been.
• 14:02
  Speaker 2: God's grace in my life.
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  Speaker 3: First that I didn't win when I first ran, because
• 14:06
  Speaker 3: I don't think I was ready, But at age forty,
• 14:09
  Speaker 3: after spending a lot of years thinking about what I believe,
• 14:12
  Speaker 3: learning a little bit better how to engage people, and communicate.
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  Speaker 2: I felt like I was able to arrive in Washington.
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  Speaker 3: With a clear idea of the vision that I wanted
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  Speaker 3: to advance and the values and principles I wanted to
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  Speaker 3: carry there from Indiana.
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  Speaker 1: So, after ten years in Congress, you decided to run
• 14:32
  Speaker 1: for governor of the state of Indiana. So let's go
• 14:36
  Speaker 1: to how you became vice president. When did you actually
• 14:39
  Speaker 1: realize you were actually a serious candidate, And what was
• 14:42
  Speaker 1: like when you met him?
• 14:43
  Speaker 4: And you had not been an early supporter of his?
• 14:44
  Speaker 4: Is that right?
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  Speaker 2: I had not?
• 14:47
  Speaker 3: In fact, the President often would enjoy reminding friends that
• 14:52
  Speaker 3: I had endorsed someone else in the Republican primary.
• 14:56
  Speaker 4: Who did you endure me?
• 14:57
  Speaker 3: Well, you know, as someone in the conservative movement. I
• 15:00
  Speaker 3: felt very drawn to Ted Cruz's candidacy. I said why
• 15:04
  Speaker 3: I was supporting Ted Cruz, But I also commended Donald
• 15:06
  Speaker 3: Trump because it was clear to me that he was
• 15:08
  Speaker 3: making a connection with all kinds of people across the
• 15:12
  Speaker 3: country who had aspirations for restoring our economy and standing
• 15:18
  Speaker 3: for values and standing tall again. But it was late
• 15:23
  Speaker 3: June when a business associate of his in Indiana, who
• 15:27
  Speaker 3: is a longtime friend of mine and his called me
• 15:31
  Speaker 3: on the phone. I was walking into the governor's residence
• 15:34
  Speaker 3: in Indiana and said, a friend of mine would like
• 15:39
  Speaker 3: to know if you would like to be considered for
• 15:46
  Speaker 3: the vice presidential nomination, and I was taken aback.
• 15:53
  Speaker 1: So when you got elected vice president? Did you enjoy
• 15:56
  Speaker 1: the vice presidency? Up until the very end?
• 15:59
  Speaker 2: I never lost a sense of awe.
• 16:02
  Speaker 3: Every day that my motorcade drove me up to the
• 16:05
  Speaker 3: White House, or when I climbed on the helicopters to
• 16:08
  Speaker 3: fly to Andrews Air Force Base, to go somewhere around
• 16:11
  Speaker 3: the country, around the world. There was always a I
• 16:14
  Speaker 3: mean a small town guy from southern Indiana. Grandfather got
• 16:19
  Speaker 3: on a boat, stepped off onto Ellis Island. Dad ran
• 16:22
  Speaker 3: gas stations. And there I was on January twentieth, twenty seventeen,
• 16:30
  Speaker 3: with my left hand on Ronald Reagan's Bible and my
• 16:33
  Speaker 3: right hand in the air, and took the oath of
• 16:34
  Speaker 3: office to serve as Vice president.
• 16:37
  Speaker 2: I never got over it. It was a great sense
• 16:40
  Speaker 2: of privilege. As we said earlier, it.
• 16:42
  Speaker 3: Didn't end the way I wanted it to, but I'll
• 16:46
  Speaker 3: always be grateful for the privilege and opportunity that President
• 16:51
  Speaker 3: Trump and the American people gave me to surf.
• 16:53
  Speaker 1: You've become a member of Congress and you had a
• 16:55
  Speaker 1: reputation for being pretty conservative, I would think it's fair
• 16:58
  Speaker 1: to say, and you became a leader among conservatives in
• 17:00
  Speaker 1: the Congress. So were people surprised about how conservative you were?
• 17:05
  Speaker 1: Or is that what you always told people you were
• 17:07
  Speaker 1: going to do when you got to Congress, being very,
• 17:08
  Speaker 1: very conservative.
• 17:09
  Speaker 3: I told people that if I ever got to Congress,
• 17:12
  Speaker 3: my only ambition would be to do it. I told
• 17:15
  Speaker 3: people back home i'd do if I ever got there,
• 17:18
  Speaker 3: And you know, it ended up. It ended up putting
• 17:21
  Speaker 3: me at odds with the president of my own party
• 17:24
  Speaker 3: and my leadership from time to time when you said,
• 17:28
  Speaker 3: was it like what you expected when you got there?
• 17:31
  Speaker 3: I wrote in my book that sometimes I felt a
• 17:33
  Speaker 3: little bit like Rip Van Winkle. I felt like a
• 17:36
  Speaker 3: guy that ran for Congress the first time before the
• 17:39
  Speaker 3: Republican Revolution in nineteen ninety four and then was elected
• 17:43
  Speaker 3: after it was over. When I got to Washington, d C.
• 17:46
  Speaker 3: I greatly admire President George W. Bush and consider him
• 17:50
  Speaker 3: to be a friend and a great man. But his
• 17:53
  Speaker 3: administration was proposing from my very first days a massive
• 17:58
  Speaker 3: expansion of the Federal Department of Education. The Wall Street
• 18:01
  Speaker 3: bailout eight years later would also be a point of
• 18:04
  Speaker 3: contention between us. But what guided me through those years
• 18:08
  Speaker 3: was I knew that I had come really to keep
• 18:11
  Speaker 3: faith with the values and principles that the people of
• 18:16
  Speaker 3: Indiana had elected me to advance.
• 18:18
  Speaker 1: What did you do as Vice president that you're most
• 18:20
  Speaker 1: proud of, other than the vote on January sixth, which
• 18:23
  Speaker 1: presumably you're proud of having done that, But what do
• 18:26
  Speaker 1: you think you accomplished those four years before the January
• 18:29
  Speaker 1: sixth vote?
• 18:30
  Speaker 3: There are two things, both of them bear upon our
• 18:32
  Speaker 3: national security. Number one is the President tasked me with
• 18:38
  Speaker 3: giving the first major speech changing US posture toward China,
• 18:46
  Speaker 3: the speech I gave in twenty eighteen. The President and
• 18:48
  Speaker 3: I literally worked through it together, and essentially I think
• 18:54
  Speaker 3: it started the process that the Trump Pens administration achieved,
• 18:58
  Speaker 3: which was to change the national census on China. It
• 19:01
  Speaker 3: was to say, after years of hoping that economic exchange
• 19:05
  Speaker 3: would result in greater liberalization in China, we essentially put
• 19:10
  Speaker 3: a marker down and said, after years of trade abuses,
• 19:14
  Speaker 3: intellectual property theft, military provocations, human rights abuses, that.
• 19:24
  Speaker 2: Those days were over.
• 19:25
  Speaker 3: We're going to impose tariffs, We're going to demand that
• 19:28
  Speaker 3: China comes forward. And I'm proud that that posture has
• 19:31
  Speaker 3: been maintained even through the Biden administration, but now been
• 19:36
  Speaker 3: redoubled with President Trump's new term.
• 19:38
  Speaker 1: Now, President Trump, I think it's fair to say even
• 19:40
  Speaker 1: President Trump would probably say this has been impulsive at times,
• 19:44
  Speaker 1: and he likes to make decisions pretty quickly by the
• 19:47
  Speaker 1: traditional standards of Washington, d C. You strike me as
• 19:50
  Speaker 1: a more deliberative type person. How did you moderate or
• 19:53
  Speaker 1: modulate what President Trump did or did you not try
• 19:55
  Speaker 1: to do that?
• 19:56
  Speaker 2: I did not try and do that. I have a
• 19:58
  Speaker 2: great sense on that.
• 20:02
  Speaker 3: The role of the vice president is to help the
• 20:05
  Speaker 3: president be successful in the presidency that he was elected
• 20:09
  Speaker 3: to advance. One of the reasons I think we had
• 20:11
  Speaker 3: a very good relationship is that I read something during
• 20:15
  Speaker 3: the transition in early twenty seventeen that Walter Mondale had written.
• 20:20
  Speaker 2: He said in this essay, he said.
• 20:23
  Speaker 3: Everyone that comes into the Oval office is looking for something.
• 20:26
  Speaker 3: They're looking for a decision and to influence a decision.
• 20:31
  Speaker 3: He said, it can't be like that with the vice president.
• 20:34
  Speaker 3: He said, the vice president owes the president his opinion
• 20:37
  Speaker 3: once and in private, because I would add to that,
• 20:42
  Speaker 3: apart from a moral or constitutional principle, what the president's
• 20:48
  Speaker 3: decides is the decision. And sometimes he'd slip and he'd say,
• 20:52
  Speaker 3: what do you think?
• 20:53
  Speaker 2: What do you think?
• 20:54
  Speaker 3: Then he'd say, Mike, wear you on this, And I'd say,
• 20:57
  Speaker 3: let me talk to you later about that, and he'd go, oh, right,
• 21:00
  Speaker 3: right right, because he knew what I knew, and that
• 21:04
  Speaker 3: was there could be no daylight between the president and
• 21:08
  Speaker 3: the vice president. And I think it's the reason why
• 21:11
  Speaker 3: we accomplished so much in those four years.
• 21:13
  Speaker 4: I didn't ask you about your wife. Was it love at.
• 21:16
  Speaker 1: First sight when you saw her on your part and
• 21:19
  Speaker 1: her part? Or how did you meet her?
• 21:20
  Speaker 3: What was on my part? She was less impressed. It
• 21:25
  Speaker 3: took a little time.
• 21:27
  Speaker 2: No I saw her. She was playing a guitar up
• 21:29
  Speaker 2: in the front of a church.
• 21:30
  Speaker 3: I followed her out the back of the church one
• 21:34
  Speaker 3: Sunday morning, and then I walked her out in the front
• 21:37
  Speaker 3: of the church. About eighteen months later, it's been forty
• 21:40
  Speaker 3: years together and she is the love of my life.
• 21:44
  Speaker 3: She's an incredible public servant in her own right and
• 21:48
  Speaker 3: a great teacher, great mom, great grandmother.
• 21:51
  Speaker 1: You were born and raised as a Catholic, and then
• 21:55
  Speaker 1: at some point you decided to become what's known as
• 21:58
  Speaker 1: I'm born again Christian and a Protestant. So was that
• 22:02
  Speaker 1: difficult to tell your mother and father that you were
• 22:06
  Speaker 1: changing your religion and what was their reaction?
• 22:09
  Speaker 3: Well, first, I cherished my Catholic upbringing, eight years of
• 22:12
  Speaker 3: Catholic school.
• 22:13
  Speaker 2: It's really still a foundation in my life. I tell
• 22:17
  Speaker 2: people I didn't leave the church.
• 22:19
  Speaker 3: I left religion by the time I got to high
• 22:22
  Speaker 3: school that had some social success, and I just decided
• 22:25
  Speaker 3: David that religion was a cruch.
• 22:27
  Speaker 2: Some people needed it. I wasn't going to judge him
• 22:29
  Speaker 2: for it, but I didn't need it.
• 22:31
  Speaker 3: But when I got off to college, I started to
• 22:33
  Speaker 3: meet some young men that simply talked to me about
• 22:38
  Speaker 3: being a Christian, and they talked about having a personal
• 22:41
  Speaker 3: relationship with God through Jesus Christ. And it set me
• 22:45
  Speaker 3: on a journey my freshman year to really begin to
• 22:48
  Speaker 3: study the Bible and to examine what the scriptures said.
• 22:52
  Speaker 3: And it was in the spring of nineteen seventy eight,
• 22:56
  Speaker 3: sitting on a hillside at a Christian music festival, like.
• 23:00
  Speaker 2: I heard the words. For God so loved the world.
• 23:02
  Speaker 3: That he gave his only begotten son, that whoever might
• 23:05
  Speaker 3: believe in him might not perish but have everlasting life.
• 23:09
  Speaker 3: I just remember my heart was broken with gratitude for
• 23:12
  Speaker 3: what I believe was done for me on the cross,
• 23:14
  Speaker 3: and I walked down and committed my life to Jesus Christ.
• 23:19
  Speaker 3: And it was changed my life forever. And when you
• 23:25
  Speaker 3: talk about that fateful day in January five years ago,
• 23:29
  Speaker 3: David for me, the essence of that, and it's the
• 23:32
  Speaker 3: reason it's the title of my book is that when
• 23:34
  Speaker 3: I took that oath of office, I believe that I
• 23:38
  Speaker 3: was making a promise to the American people.
• 23:40
  Speaker 2: But also it ended with a prayer, so help me God.
• 23:45
  Speaker 1: Thanks for listening to hear more of my interviews. You
• 23:48
  Speaker 1: can subscribe and download my podcast on Spotify, Apple, or
• 23:52
  Speaker 1: wherever you listen.