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Brendan Sorsby Latest, Is College Sports Shook?, Big 12's Private Equity Deal · Others Receiving Votes

0:05
[SPEAKER_00]: By welcome to the show, others receiving votes.
0:07
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm Pat Forty with Ryan Fisher and Kevin Swaney.
0:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Sports Illustrated,SI.com.
0:14
[SPEAKER_00]: Good to have you all with us today.
0:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, the Derby Kentucky Derby was Saturday.
0:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know a soul who won money on it.
0:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Usually I walk out and I can find somebody I know who somehow won something.
0:30
[SPEAKER_00]: I got nothing.
0:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Did you guys anybody, did either of you get rich or no anybody who did on the Kentucky Derby?
0:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Well, I was staying before we got on that I had a big group of college basketball folks that we all put in the name and none of us had had golden tempo.
0:47
[SPEAKER_01]: So yeah, not not a great Derby for for for the college whoops, Clint Brian, I got nothing other than you know, shout out to Donna Brothers for nailing it and it hurt last every.
0:59
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, Donna Brothers is a pro.
1:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But yes, well,
1:07
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of people have been losing money or searching for money and college sports and we're going to talk quite a bit actually about money today and money matters in this show.
1:19
[SPEAKER_00]: We are going to discuss the first major college football gambling scandal as a star quarterback tried to make more money and means that are impermecible under NCAA rules.
1:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we are going to talk about the NCAA tournament and people trying to make more money off of that with the inevitable expansion to 76 now pretty much at hand.
1:43
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, we're going to talk about the private equity push for more cash.
1:48
[SPEAKER_00]: Why the big 12 struck a deal and more reasons why the big 10 did not strike a deal with PE.
1:57
[SPEAKER_00]: And I want to talk about why football and basketball coaches should be more like Kentucky Derby winning trainer Sherry Devote.
2:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have a little meth lab story at the end.
2:09
[SPEAKER_00]: So let's get into it here, guys.
2:13
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's start with Brendan Sorsby.
2:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Texas Tech, they're lowering up and loving.
2:18
[SPEAKER_00]: He has hired noted NCAA Nemesis Jeffrey Kessler.
2:25
[SPEAKER_00]: try to get him out of a potential college career ending jam.
2:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Source B's under NCAA investigation for allegedly making thousands of impermanible sports wagers, dating with two years at Indiana and according to some reports extending to his time at Cincinnati, that includes betting on his sport and on his team, at least at Indiana, even though not betting against them or betting in the one game that he played during the one season we actually really know about.
2:55
[SPEAKER_00]: So there's a lot going on with Brennan source B and NCAA jurisdiction, NCAA jurisprudence, I should say.
3:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Hiring Kessler is certainly a upping of the ante.
3:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Since he was one of the key architects of the House versus NCAA settlement that is completely changed the landscape.
3:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian.
3:20
[SPEAKER_00]: can cast or find a way to beat the NCAA again, so source we can retain eligibility as a $5 million reportedly transfer in college football, and we're gonna see Brennan source me play for the red raiders or not.
3:34
[SPEAKER_01]: I still doubt it.
3:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, this might be the only thing that this this entire story was missing was some more billable hours, right?
3:40
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that the one fruism in college athletics is always the lawyers and frankly, if anybody could beat the NCA and it's definitely Jeffrey Kessler.
3:49
[SPEAKER_01]: I mean, he's not like beat them twice in some pretty landmark cases, but you think back to going up against the NFL.
3:56
[SPEAKER_01]: NBA, you know, and ushering in free agency and those sports.
3:59
[SPEAKER_01]: If anybody could find some sort of labor way to, you know, labor law or whatever that can get Britain and source be eligible.
4:05
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to be him.
4:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's kind of the optimism there around Lubbock.
4:09
[SPEAKER_01]: I still don't think that anybody truthfully thinks that Britain source be is going to play this year.
4:14
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, I think in terms of yes, you could get a favorable local judge.
4:17
[SPEAKER_01]: That seems to be the the trick nowadays when when battling the NCAA, but you know, it's still not pill battle.
4:23
[SPEAKER_01]: you know, it's pretty cut and dry in terms of here are the and zeroes around gambling.
4:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that they've been pretty consistent in terms of applying them.
4:31
[SPEAKER_01]: And we've certainly seen some past cases whether it be Iowa State or guys of lost eligibility.
4:36
[SPEAKER_01]: We have other cases in terms of basketball that we've discussed numerous times in this show.
4:40
[SPEAKER_01]: So,
4:41
[SPEAKER_01]: It's an uphill battle, that's for sure, and in terms of where the text goes from here, it does kind of come down to Ken Jeffery, Kessler Polato Miracle, I'm not putting it against it, but in terms of everything being pretty cut and dry, I think it's still going to be tough to see brand stores we take the field and love it there.
4:58
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it'd be, I mean, it'd be a huge blow to I think the sports credibility if this if if somehow they're able to win in the courts, right, this is a couldn't drive rule and also like I think something that would be pretty consistent across any sports league like if you bet.
5:14
[SPEAKER_02]: on your sports league, you cannot play here anymore.
5:17
[SPEAKER_02]: That seems like a pretty reasonable, reasonable rule that he broke and has to live with the consequences of I'm probably more interested in potential challenges to this ghost transfer policy that the NCAA has adopted.
5:32
[SPEAKER_02]: They have been very diligent in putting on
5:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Really, really strong penalties.
5:38
[SPEAKER_02]: If you try to have a player transfer into your program outside of a portal window, this is after You know last year we had like the Jake Reds laugh situation a couple others that guys transferred outside windows and then she said, all right If I just unenroll in my current school and I enroll somewhere else and nobody recruits me then I'm all set to go That seems like where maybe Texas tech can try to push the NCAA in the courts and potentially have some success
6:04
[SPEAKER_02]: I just don't know who that player is, and can they get out of their contract at their current school?
6:09
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, certainly Texas Tech is the money to make it interesting if they search you.
6:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So that, to me, is probably the more intriguing legal battle, even though I'm sure we'll start at least with the the Hail Mary to get, as far as beyond the field in some form this year, even if it's with this suspension, it's some kind.
6:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that's an interesting next step, right?
6:29
[SPEAKER_00]: But we've got exhaust, source visa attempts to get eligible first, I guess.
6:35
[SPEAKER_00]: And then, then, yes, what does Texas Tech do?
6:38
[SPEAKER_00]: And do they try to ghost the NCAA, so to speak?
6:43
[SPEAKER_00]: That I think, I mean, that rule comes with a lot of teeth, the way it's at least drawn up.
6:50
[SPEAKER_00]: But boy, I think the legal challenges would be immediate.
6:54
[SPEAKER_00]: to that.
6:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, it's basically that that's going to going to conjure up restraint of trade and, you know, saying that that you're just not allowing free movement for players at a time when they should be able to move simply because you had this two week period or whatever the time frame was back in January.
7:15
[SPEAKER_00]: Things change from January to June.
7:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Um, so that that may well be where this ends up, uh, and if so, that'll be a fascinating argument, uh, as for this, no, I agree with you.
7:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I think that, uh, the amount of time, energy, money, and effort, the NCAA has spent on,
7:40
[SPEAKER_00]: gambling education for players.
7:44
[SPEAKER_00]: First of all, making sure they know what the rules are and then secondly, trying to make them understand the penalties and then if need be ways to get help if you are in a situation like that, like this is like the most plowed ground imaginable.
8:03
[SPEAKER_00]: for the NCAA.
8:04
[SPEAKER_00]: And if you can't enforce this rule at this point, then what exactly are they gonna be able to do?
8:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So I don't think there's any way the NCAA doesn't go down fighting if they have to.
8:16
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not sure it'll even come to that, but we'll see.
8:18
[SPEAKER_00]: So but that does kind of bring me to this next point.
8:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Source BZA is a far bigger deal than the basketball players we've talked about at the smaller schools who were ensnared in the gambling scandal in the last couple of years.
8:32
[SPEAKER_00]: This is obviously a different situation.
8:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Source B's not accused of tanking games, you know, manipulating his own performance of doing anything actually criminal other than maybe gambling under age, which is a
8:52
[SPEAKER_00]: college kids, college athletes and the amount of gambling that goes on on college campuses and the ease with which they're able to do it.
9:01
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, everything I have heard is that
9:06
[SPEAKER_00]: A huge percentage of your average college campus is betting all the time on stuff may not be big bets, but, but they are doing it and we are putting athletes obviously in the same dorms in the same classes at the same parties with all of these people that are gambling.
9:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there any way to untangle the connected threads and either do regulate and say.
9:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Go ahead, or is the bright line need to be drawn there?
9:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, how do we handle this situation, Kevin, you're going to thoughts on that?
9:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think it's going to be largely impossible.
9:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Sports betting is rather ubiquitous, as you said on college campuses, but just generally speaking, I think all of us have probably witnessed in some form fans going crazy right behind us, or around us that are yelling about a third made
10:03
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it was at the big 10 tournament and I was sitting in the stands with with with with with the coaches family and like right next to them is some guy who's like sweating out a guy hitting a third three in the final two minutes Yeah, like this is this is where we're at it's not simple.
10:18
[SPEAKER_02]: It's and it goes far beyond just hey like we're gonna bet on the game and bet on the result I mean we heard it with swords be like swords be was going to reds games and betting every single ball in every single strike like he was just enjoying the rush
10:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah.
10:30
[SPEAKER_02]: Two bucks, five bucks.
10:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It wasn't about the money.
10:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It was about the Russian.
10:33
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't think we can undo the kind of gamification of that.
10:36
[SPEAKER_02]: I think what really probably needs to happen, and I know that the MCWA took a lot of heat when they initially tried to deregulate essentially the gambling market outside of, you know, betting on college sports, betting on your own sport.
10:50
[SPEAKER_02]: I think that's probably where we need to be, and then make it
10:57
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, we understand you're probably going to bet if Brendan Sorge wants to go sit at the reds game and bet on balls and strikes more power to him.
11:04
[SPEAKER_02]: You want to blow your anile money like we can't, we shouldn't be in position to stop you and quite frankly, the instillate doesn't have the resources to be chasing down those incidents.
11:13
[SPEAKER_02]: but there needs to be a strong as possible line.
11:17
[SPEAKER_02]: You cannot bet on your school, you cannot bet on your sport.
11:22
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, I don't think it's a huge deal of a college baseball player at, I don't know, Illinois wants to bet on college basketball on Texas.
11:30
[SPEAKER_02]: That doesn't seem like the craziest thing in the world to me.
11:32
[SPEAKER_02]: It does seem like the craziest thing if the college baseball player at Illinois is talking to the Illinois basketball team and betting on the Illinois night that night.
11:38
[SPEAKER_02]: right and so that those those are the types of things to me that that I think need to be cracked down on heavily and and scrutinized incredibly heavily but I do think probably it has to lean more towards deregulation because there's just no world where we put the toothpaste back in the tube on the gambling side of things and in our current society.
11:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I mean, it's everywhere, right?
12:00
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you can turn on an NBA game and you can turn on an NFL game wherever, you know, you're not only the ads, but, you know, it's part of the broadcast now, you know, the over-unders, and this is part of the, here, you know, you've got analysts talking, you really can't escape it.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: nowadays.
12:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think that's that's reflected in the in the data and the insane did a stir survey, you know, a year or two ago and you know, like the 60% of, you know, kind of college age students just the general population, you know, had either experienced or bet themselves.
12:28
[SPEAKER_01]: And that's a concerning number.
12:30
[SPEAKER_01]: And hopefully, you know, I think the larger college athletics world has woken up to the issues here and the intertwining of gambling and sports at this point.
12:37
[SPEAKER_01]: and some of the the perils that comes with that, I'm more hopeful that maybe this can serve as a story that can wake up, you know, college presidents, that this is going on on their campus and they need to do something about it.
12:48
[SPEAKER_01]: It's great that these athletes are getting the education or are the kids themselves, you know, in the general public or are they getting educated, you know, that it maybe it's it's not the greatest thing in the world to be betting every pitch and every ball and every strike.
13:00
[SPEAKER_01]: When you go to the game, or worrying about things that are happening in your athletic events, I think that would be more hopeful for me if there's going to be some changes broadly.
13:11
[SPEAKER_01]: To the actual journal, higher education community to say this is a bigger issue on campus than just college athletics.
13:16
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, credit to the NCA.
13:18
[SPEAKER_01]: They've been, they have been out ahead of them.
13:19
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, Charlie Baker, this is kind of one of his big priorities.
13:22
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think early in your tenure, you're thinking, all right, you're scratching your head.
13:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Why is he making this kind of one of his, his big stands?
13:28
[SPEAKER_01]: But, you know, truthfully, it's something that a lot of administrators have talked to him about.
13:32
[SPEAKER_01]: A lot of people have said, you know, hey, this is this a big issue.
13:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And they were out ahead of the curve on this.
13:37
[SPEAKER_01]: And you kind of hope that the consistent refrain, some of these stories, some of the messaging, some of the education,
13:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Can it could start to break through because it's definitely, you know, larger societal problem that we're going to be dealing with for years to come.
13:50
[SPEAKER_00]: If you go back to last fall, when the exit, the NCAA actually voted to pass.
13:57
[SPEAKER_00]: I rule that I would allow, excuse me, athletes to bet on professional sports.
14:05
[SPEAKER_00]: The timing, I think, was so catastrophically bad that that's what got them pushed back to the other side of it and they voted to resimbed the rule.
14:15
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, this was one of the all-time tone-definced AA moments.
14:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Like, you know, we have these councils and committees that sit in committee rooms and come up with this idea.
14:26
[SPEAKER_00]: And meanwhile, the fads are investigating point-shaving in college basketball.
14:34
[SPEAKER_00]: Now, if you take the timing out of it, a lot of what was being argued for by NCAA enforcement and by college membership was exactly what we're talking about here.
14:48
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no policing it, the adequately.
14:52
[SPEAKER_00]: There is no way of stopping it.
14:55
[SPEAKER_00]: It is everywhere on campuses and to
15:04
[SPEAKER_00]: all the time was unrealistic and then absolutely unenforceable.
15:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Like they were spending so much of their time chasing, you know, nickel dime infractions cases for somebody that bet $100 on an NFL game, or whatever the case may be.
15:22
[SPEAKER_00]: And so the the
15:24
[SPEAKER_00]: I think the logic behind it was not necessarily flawed.
15:28
[SPEAKER_00]: The timing was terrible.
15:29
[SPEAKER_00]: The optics were terrible.
15:31
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's probably worth at least reconsidering from exactly the standpoint that you said, Kevin, is if you can
15:39
[SPEAKER_00]: draw the absolute, you know, brightest of red lines of, like, easy, this is what you can't do.
15:45
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't bet on your teams.
15:47
[SPEAKER_00]: You can't bet on your sport at your school.
15:49
[SPEAKER_00]: You know, those things you can't do.
15:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And everything else, okay, well, it will learn to live with it.
15:54
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
15:55
[SPEAKER_00]: I still, it's, it's uneasy.
15:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's unsettling.
15:58
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be right for abuse and problems, I think, but it might be the most realistic way to try to figure this thing.
16:05
[SPEAKER_02]: I wonder, I wonder, Pat, if there would be a way, and this is, again, probably getting two in the weeds, but like, would there be a way of working with the sports books on something like this?
16:13
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe we're setting up accounts, essentially.
16:16
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I mean, that would feel a little weird.
16:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, hey, like, go through the school to get your gambling accounts.
16:22
[SPEAKER_02]: But like, who's something where, like, okay, like if you're a college athlete, like it will block you from betting on college sports in the, like all these apps have incredible amounts of control.
16:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, which, which crazy about this to me is like, it seems that I have to imagine fan dual draft Kings wherever he was betting.
16:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Had evidence that Brennan Sorsby was gambling on,
16:42
[SPEAKER_02]: things, you know, for years and like they're they're not obligated to send that into the answer, but obviously, but like they have ways of tracking this pretty well if they want to.
16:50
[SPEAKER_02]: And I wonder maybe there's a maybe there's a work that could be done between the NCAA and the books to to help mitigate a little bit of this.
17:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You've just given rise to a new job path and college athletics, the Assistant Athletic Director in charge of setting up gambling accounts for the players.
17:12
[SPEAKER_00]: me the ultimate like through the looking glass moment.
17:17
[SPEAKER_00]: I love the, I mean, your, your point is well taken, right?
17:20
[SPEAKER_00]: It is now it would be very, very big brothery, you know, that like the school and the, and the gambling companies are going to combine to tell you what you can and can't bet on.
17:31
[SPEAKER_00]: And by the way, we are running an introductory special if you want to get down on the NBA playoffs.
17:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, this would be it's fascinating.
17:39
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, look, they here's what they, they just got to explore all the options and figure out what where this thing is actually where the line is going to be between what's enforceable what's not enforceable what what really matters most and how many problems you want to take on with it.
17:56
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
17:57
[SPEAKER_01]: It makes you long for the days of where, you know, the black bag was, you know, passion, the casino chips over to guys to pay them under the table, right?
18:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And you know, the other problem too, Kevin, take to your point, like the issue that, I think the NSA has been pretty proactive, but like the issue too is like a lot of these kids, and I think we're probably on the verge of another scandal, if you ask me in terms of like the prediction markets and stuff like calcium and all that, like that's completely unregulated.
18:22
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, like there's no monitoring of that.
18:24
[SPEAKER_01]: So like if you're talking about some of these athletes and this obviously case involving a state and Texas that does not have you know legal gambling, but you know you can do through these prediction markets like you know like there's there's a lot of issues you know at hand beyond just this little kind of limited case itself.
18:39
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, that I mean, yeah, there's that the prediction markets are the kind of that next frontier and it shows how far Wagering is ahead of people trying to get their arms around wagering, you know, from a regulatory standpoint.
18:54
[SPEAKER_00]: So again, next frontier.
19:00
[SPEAKER_00]: One other source be thought here, this is interesting to me, because there's been a lot of talk already about him being going into the NFL Supplemental draft and possibly being taken as like a second round pick.
19:14
[SPEAKER_00]: And the way the Supplemental draft works, if you put yourself in, there's the teams have a chance to draft you, but they have to decide what round pick they would want to use
19:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And a lot of teams would pass completely, but if somebody says, yeah, you know, I'll use a second round pick on source me, we have talked to people in the NFL and Who covered the NFL and they think he's he's super highly regarded there.
19:38
[SPEAKER_00]: He's got big time arm talent and a lot of the other
19:43
[SPEAKER_00]: uh, qualities you want in a perspective and a felt quarterback.
19:47
[SPEAKER_00]: One quality you don't want is a quarterback with a gambling problem.
19:52
[SPEAKER_00]: And I wonder if there needs to be a bit of a history lesson here.
19:55
[SPEAKER_00]: You guys are much younger than I am of you heard of archleister.
19:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Of course.
20:00
[SPEAKER_01]: I do not.
20:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Okay.
20:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, let me tell you about archleister Kevin, um, superstar quarterback at Ohio
20:12
[SPEAKER_00]: One problem.
20:13
[SPEAKER_00]: He kept ending up at Siodo Downs horse track gambling.
20:17
[SPEAKER_00]: Got in some trouble while he was in college.
20:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Didn't stop the NFL first round pick number four overall pick.
20:27
[SPEAKER_00]: How did that work out, total disaster?
20:30
[SPEAKER_00]: His complete life, it's very sad story.
20:33
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, an absolute 25-year run, I actually know now, like 40-year run of arrests and issues and going to prison, gambling addict who never got himself under control.
20:46
[SPEAKER_00]: And in the NFL, if you want your quarterbacks to be basically to be nerds, right?
20:52
[SPEAKER_00]: You want them to do nothing but think football,
20:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Act football, you know, the days of the Jim McMahon quarterback who, you know, is as a party boy, not very easy to sustain anymore, it's one of the reasons I think Fernando Mendoza was attractive.
21:08
[SPEAKER_00]: He's a boring guy.
21:09
[SPEAKER_00]: You'd have to do a lot of homework on Brennan source beat that to come to a realization a belief.
21:18
[SPEAKER_00]: that we are spending money on somebody who's not the next archleister, because if he's checked himself into a residential gambling facility and if he was doing the kind of wagering that he's alleged to doesn't matter the dollar amounts, but the amount of times he was willing to completely flout rules that could make him ineligible while he was being paid a good
21:44
[SPEAKER_00]: They like talent.
21:45
[SPEAKER_00]: I get that.
21:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I understand that, but man, oh man, this seems like it's a fraught with peril there.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't know.
21:50
[SPEAKER_00]: Would you guys draft friend and source being a supplemental draft?
21:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I'm sure he's going to get strong consideration.
21:55
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think the first round talk is probably a little bit too rich in terms of, yes, he is that kind of quality talent.
22:02
[SPEAKER_01]: If you will, as a potential kind of back half with the first round, if he were entering this past draft for example, and actually going through the entire process, I think a lot of teams are going to be doing quite a bit of homework on him.
22:15
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, that there are a quarterback needy, you know, someone to like the cardinals.
22:17
[SPEAKER_01]: And yes, I know they just draft a Carson Beck, but saying, all right, maybe do do we take another shot, you know, as a as a potential guy in the supplemental draft should that be the route that he goes through.
22:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And I think they're going to be some timing considerations involved in that.
22:30
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of ultimately what he wants to do.
22:32
[SPEAKER_01]: But the NFL's attitudes toward gambling is a little bit different nowadays than what you've got Calvin Ridley.
22:39
[SPEAKER_01]: He got caught up in a similar scandal in terms of betting.
22:42
[SPEAKER_01]: He's back in the league, got paid a free agent contract after that.
22:45
[SPEAKER_01]: James Williams was got betting on there.
22:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And the NFL does have some pretty hard and fast rules.
22:50
[SPEAKER_01]: But I think your opponent's source would be going to rehab.
22:53
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, probably expressing quite a bit of contrician, you know, this was when he was younger, maybe he just was kind of caught up in the moment and you can kind of potentially buy that.
23:02
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, if the talent is going to win out.
23:04
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think he's going to get pretty strong consideration of going through the supplemental draft and.
23:09
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, probably not the first or second round pick at this point, but for some of those quarterback media teams, I think it's going to be an intriguing prospect, especially at this part in in the draft, you know, kind of ecosystem to where he could be taken where it's not so prohibitive, but you also got to keep in mind that he's not only kind of battling.
23:26
[SPEAKER_01]: uh... the perceptions outside he's also battling the other twenty twenty seven guys that he's going to be battling with in terms of all right in my really gonna give up a first round draft pick or a second even second round draft pick when you know those twenty twenty seven quarterbacks that he's going to be potentially competing with uh... you're the archmanings the the lanora sellers of the world could do are going to be pretty attractive for a lot of those teams to get go and get a guy especially in the back after the first round
23:49
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I think the challenge is just like the information component right like this is stuff that like is going to take a little bit of time to wrap your head around and you'd want to have a normal pre draft process where you could talk to them and go through okay why were you doing this talk to everyone he's ever spent time with roommates coaches okay like I don't know is he's sitting in the facility betting betting on fandom like what what what what is the extent of this problem right because I think.
24:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Look, it's not new for guys to have vices around the league.
24:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Many of them do.
24:20
[SPEAKER_02]: Many of them probably casino gamble quite heavily.
24:23
[SPEAKER_02]: There's more access to that than ever before.
24:24
[SPEAKER_02]: In addition to, obviously, the sports book in your pocket that everybody has now.
24:29
[SPEAKER_02]: So I think it's probably less, oh man, like this guy's going to lose all his money.
24:34
[SPEAKER_02]: This guy's going to be in trouble with the law.
24:35
[SPEAKER_02]: It's like, all right, like, why was he doing this?
24:38
[SPEAKER_02]: Is this something that's going to continue?
24:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, where is his life headed?
24:43
[SPEAKER_02]: How does he spend his time off the football field and those are the things that I think they're going to need answers on quickly if you're going to make the investment, but I do think, you know, if you can get a potential first round or in the 2027 draft for the cost of let's say a third round pick and have them in camp for a year and try them out essentially and if it's okay we swung a missed on a third round pick we swung a miss on a third round pick.
25:04
[SPEAKER_02]: And we go try to draft a quarterback in the first in 27.
25:08
[SPEAKER_02]: And if we think he's great, well, we got to steal, and we hope he, you know, we hope he keeps his head on straight and stops gambling at least on football.
25:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, I wish the best for the young man.
25:21
[SPEAKER_00]: I just, I would approach with caution if I were to NFL franchise.
25:24
[SPEAKER_00]: As you said, if you can, if you can get him for a quote unquote bargain draft price and then just see how it goes.
25:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Sure, okay, but I would need a lot of reassurance before I'm spending any pick on bread and sourced beef.
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: So.
25:41
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, the next money issue and CW like tournament expansion.
25:46
[SPEAKER_00]: We've discussed it before.
25:49
[SPEAKER_00]: New reports last week that it's basically a done deal.
25:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Just needs to go through a couple of committees.
25:54
[SPEAKER_00]: Nobody has surprised.
25:55
[SPEAKER_00]: This was inevitable.
25:57
[SPEAKER_00]: If either of you want to support it, go ahead.
26:00
[SPEAKER_00]: If not, we'll move on.
26:02
[SPEAKER_00]: Anybody, anybody want to say this is great?
26:05
[SPEAKER_02]: No takers.
26:06
[SPEAKER_02]: No, I'm good.
26:07
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, all right, failing that.
26:09
[SPEAKER_00]: Let's at least try to explain it.
26:11
[SPEAKER_00]: Kevin, what's this gonna look like when it's actually implemented if we got 76 teams and the bigger question which programs will get the extra bits?
26:23
[SPEAKER_02]: So, my understanding is that the plan is to essentially have a first 12 instead of a first four, half of those games would be from the automatic qualifier bucket.
26:35
[SPEAKER_02]: So, essentially instead of a couple of teams at the very bottom being 16 seeds, now you'd have all four, 16 seeds being eight plan games, eight plan teams, then two of the 15 seed games would be as well.
26:47
[SPEAKER_02]: So, the impact of that essentially moves every automatic qualifier
26:53
[SPEAKER_02]: down a seed line right if you are 13 now you're probably a 14 if you are a 15 now you're maybe a 16 or you're at least going to have to go play in Dayton or Boise or wherever else they decide to hash this this extended tournament.
27:06
[SPEAKER_02]: So that's the impact on that end and then they'll be 12 at larges that play in that field.
27:14
[SPEAKER_02]: So basically I think it's eight new at larges that you
27:19
[SPEAKER_02]: I mapped this out back in March.
27:22
[SPEAKER_02]: There's an article up on SI.
27:23
[SPEAKER_02]: I have tweeted a bunch of that gets incredible engagement every time I do.
27:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, it's pretty ugly.
27:28
[SPEAKER_02]: The last four in this past year was Oklahoma, who lost nine straight games at one point this season, Auburn, which lost 16 regular season games, San Diego State, who is a perennial NCAA tournament team,
27:41
[SPEAKER_02]: was just okay.
27:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And then Indiana, who completely collapsed on the stretch got bludgeoned by Northwestern in the Big 10 tournament in a must-win game, they're sneaking in without much drama at this point.
27:52
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the other four, I mocked out using the Wins Above Bubble tool and those four were a really bad Oklahoma State team, a middle-ing Virginia Tech cow.
28:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And then the best one is that the last team in based on the
28:08
[SPEAKER_02]: Arizona State and Bobby early.
28:09
[SPEAKER_02]: So if that is the group that you wanted to see in the tournament, you're welcome.
28:14
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, it seems that the argument from some of the few that support this is, oh, this is the only way that mid-majors can get at large bits.
28:24
[SPEAKER_02]: It's gotten too big.
28:25
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no chance.
28:26
[SPEAKER_02]: I just, I find it very, I find it very hard to believe that this is going to add substantial mid major representation to the field.
28:33
[SPEAKER_02]: The goalpost will keep moving.
28:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe one extra gets in a year.
28:36
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe two.
28:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I would guess, I'll say it's one from like the good mid major leagues, like the new packed 12.
28:42
[SPEAKER_02]: Maybe the Atlantic 10 steals a second bit here and there.
28:45
[SPEAKER_02]: And then,
28:46
[SPEAKER_02]: every couple of years you'll get an Indiana state or I don't know this year would would have been a good example.
28:51
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean Miami Ohio obviously got in someone someone like that maybe if Miami Ohio's had three or four losses they might have snuck in this way.
28:57
[SPEAKER_02]: So there is a door that opens for for teams that wouldn't have gotten in otherwise but for the most part this is going to be a handout of bids to the power leagues that now can get even more meddling teams into the dance and in exchange the automatic qualifiers now don't get like
29:15
[SPEAKER_02]: a big dance experience without winning a game and I think got to me as the most disappointing part is that there's going to be a lot of teams I mean think about like Ciana from this year like Ciana with five players would have had to go play a play a play a play in game that let's say they win now they go play on 36 hours no it is against Duke like best of luck to them and I just that that part to me stinks about it more than anything
29:39
[SPEAKER_01]: I am curious though, if those 16 seats are do end up at CNS random case of side like our a little bit stronger than that we would normally see can some of those number one seeds maybe that is the case and we do see some some closer games you know in terms of those 11 16 matchups or even some you know for others down the bracket I'm more curious about some of the kind of second order effects from this expansion we really haven't seen this kind of like schedule pollusa you know this this time of year where we're we're.
30:03
[SPEAKER_01]: We're trying to see athletic administrators, coaches, trying to get games and put together some of their schedules like, I'm not seeing an uptake uptake in terms of, hey, you know, I'm willing to go on the road and play one of those been majors now because I know I got a little bit of extra slack in the schedule, you know, I'm not really seeing some of those issues.
30:21
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm going to be, you know, you mentioned Arizona State, like, I actually anticipate once this move gets announced and things become official, athletic predictors are going to probably be
30:31
[SPEAKER_01]: All right, even if we sneak into the tournament, I don't want the president of having to fire my coach, you know, after after going to the, making the insane tournament, maybe it's the first time in three or four years when I know I want to get a guy out and I know who my candidate is, I would anticipate more, more firing, see their midseason.
30:47
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, kind of early kind of February ish, possibly before conference tournaments as well.
30:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, I know coaches are like, you know, thinking, all right, this is going to be great.
30:55
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it'll be much easier to make this in the tournament.
30:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Keep my job, get my raises, get my bonuses.
31:01
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think they're necessarily thinking too far ahead in terms of, all right, well, yeah, the pressure is going to be on too.
31:06
[SPEAKER_01]: And if somebody wants you out, it's probably going to end up happening earlier, rather than later in this new cycle that we're going to see as part of this expansion.
31:14
[SPEAKER_00]: So yeah, Kevin out of the, out of the eight at largest that you mentioned seven are from power conferences.
31:19
[SPEAKER_02]: Seven were power conferences.
31:20
[SPEAKER_02]: You could argue that New Mexico would have gotten one over like the Arizona State, so then it'd be two.
31:25
[SPEAKER_02]: But again, that's like Mountain West and Pact 12, not exactly.
31:29
[SPEAKER_02]: Not exactly helping the little guy, New Mexico's got like a $4 million NIO budget.
31:33
[SPEAKER_00]: So absolutely.
31:33
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah, in San Diego State, clearly has been a power team for a long time.
31:37
[SPEAKER_00]: So, yes, today it helps to nobody other than the people
31:42
[SPEAKER_00]: programs that want to be helped.
31:44
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's the thing, Indiana fans hated their team.
31:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Auburn fans were very disappointed with their team.
31:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Oklahoma fans do not care.
31:55
[SPEAKER_00]: Oklahoma State fans, uh, that mean fine, they might have been okay Virginia Tech.
32:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Not all that thrilled.
32:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Cal might have been the only fan base.
32:03
[SPEAKER_00]: It's like, hey, that'd be pretty cool.
32:05
[SPEAKER_00]: If we got it in the tournament, I don't think anybody else is going to be like, yeah, we're going dancing.
32:10
[SPEAKER_00]: So you are not even, you're not even making the fans themselves.
32:15
[SPEAKER_00]: That happy.
32:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And the stuff that we're getting and the the Seth Greenberg disingenuous telephones, you know, of, of, what, more kids getting opportunity and that's bad.
32:26
[SPEAKER_00]: It's not that hard or an opportunity as it is.
32:29
[SPEAKER_00]: And I'm sorry, this is not just a let's get everybody we possibly can in sort of situation.
32:36
[SPEAKER_00]: We're trying to reward the best teams.
32:39
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not trying to reward teams that lose nine straight games.
32:43
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not trying to reward teams that lose 16 games in a regular season.
32:47
[SPEAKER_00]: That's not, you know, you go and tell me that like, again, the kids at Indiana would have felt great going to the tournament and they're like, oh, all right, we're going.
32:58
[SPEAKER_00]: Great, fine.
33:00
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, it to me, just like every, I have not heard a good argument.
33:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I don't think there is a good argument.
33:05
[SPEAKER_00]: So, miss me with all the arguments, please.
33:09
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm not, I'm not here for it, but this does make me think fellas, um, about the, the dub tailing of the experience of the basketball tournament with the likely
33:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Like it doesn't just blow you away while the potential revenue numbers, I think increasing could be for the basketball tournament.
33:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Football is TBD.
33:38
[SPEAKER_00]: I would imagine they're gonna make a lot more money if they end up with 24 teams.
33:42
[SPEAKER_00]: But my theory here guys is that the cod sports establishment is truly shook by the house settlement.
33:51
[SPEAKER_00]: And the fact that the house settlement has ballooned into very quickly into something much bigger than expected.
34:00
[SPEAKER_00]: In terms of payroll, you know, we've gone, we've blown past 20.5 very quickly.
34:06
[SPEAKER_00]: It's supposed to go up 4% next year, but the salaries are going up way faster than that.
34:13
[SPEAKER_00]: And combining these, taking these terribly unpopular ideas and saying, we got to do it because we need the money to pay the players into keep our Olympic sports afloat.
34:25
[SPEAKER_00]: And we have seen
34:28
[SPEAKER_00]: A lot of limp exports suddenly move on to the chopping block here in this spring.
34:33
[SPEAKER_00]: We've seen tennis teams get and cut all over the place.
34:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Pittsburgh looks like they're deemphasizing swimming after their best year of swimming in school history.
34:41
[SPEAKER_00]: That is yet to be fully clarified, but they're head coach.
34:45
[SPEAKER_00]: They're very successful head coach just up and resigned, said that he was told they were going in a new strategic direction after 2026-27.
34:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Is there a case to be made if if these folks would actually just come out and make it is there a case to be made that would be palatable to people.
35:08
[SPEAKER_00]: If we're we're making these unpopular expansions to save the Olympic sports that's exactly what we're doing here if we don't do it we're going to wipe out the golf team we're going to wipe out the soccer team the wrestling team whatever.
35:23
[SPEAKER_00]: Would that be a potential PR window for them?
35:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Is it first of all, is it a real motivation?
35:28
[SPEAKER_00]: And secondly, should they play the card?
35:31
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian.
35:32
[SPEAKER_01]: No, it's not a real motivation, but it'd be a hell of a better marketing and PR strategy than they currently have right now, because it's, you know, the waffling and no, we might need some more, like, that doesn't resonate with anybody, it doesn't resonate.
35:44
[SPEAKER_01]: Coaches certainly doesn't resonate with fans who don't want this, like, you know, like, you could definitely, if you could lay out the case, which, that's the most frustrating thing about everything, right?
35:53
[SPEAKER_01]: Whether it's cultural, well, playoff expansion,
35:56
[SPEAKER_01]: The Indian and States getting the world like that's not going to flip the boat in terms of all right, getting getting the regular fans that that invest actually time and money into watching college basketball is it's not going to get them fired up, you know, and it's the same in football, everybody, you know, like we always talk about Iowa that seems like that that's the trademark team in terms of I look at Iowa, they could get into the college for well, play off.
36:15
[SPEAKER_01]: Like, is that really exciting fans down in the SEC to go see Iowa play some extra games?
36:20
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know if Iowa fans are thrilled in most years to see their team play a few more times.
36:25
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that, it just doesn't make any sense.
36:27
[SPEAKER_01]: And like at least if they presented this as say, all right, we're going to save Olympic sports.
36:31
[SPEAKER_01]: We're going to have a lot of this money is going to be earmarked for additional scholarship support or your resources for an Olympic program.
36:38
[SPEAKER_01]: Now that's why we're doing this.
36:39
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that would be a much better case than they have currently made, which they frankly haven't made any.
36:44
[SPEAKER_01]: good cases.
36:45
[SPEAKER_01]: So, you know, kudos to the powers of B for ramming this through without, you know, some good rationale.
36:50
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, frankly, if they did make that case, which it, it's false, you know, like this is, again, you talk about those tennis programs going away or swimming programs.
36:59
[SPEAKER_01]: These are institutional choices.
37:01
[SPEAKER_01]: These programs are always going to be losing money.
37:04
[SPEAKER_01]: These are essentially, you know, to promote the greater good at the school.
37:08
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, it's a money losing effort.
37:10
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like, you know, the drive for more revenue is never about the sport.
37:14
[SPEAKER_01]: It's all about, all right, how can we better invest in more football, more basketball, more men's and women's basketball now?
37:20
[SPEAKER_01]: in terms of making money and you know you wish that were the case that the powers it be would come around to at least providing a good rational even if it's let's say it's it's false at this point but but they have it and that's probably the most disappointing thing in terms of the entire expansion debate is that they haven't given a good reason.
37:37
[SPEAKER_02]: Right, to me, the expansion is much more about avoiding this sort of permanent underclass within the power for right it's okay we've got these giant leagues now we've got you know significant powers at the top of each of them.
37:54
[SPEAKER_02]: What why should Arkansas stay in invest what why should Arkansas believe it can compete well there's a 2014 football player now our Arkansas may never be top four, but they could be top 24 right I will may never be top four, but they could be 24 right you know
38:19
[SPEAKER_02]: that that is what this all is.
38:21
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not even that it's going to be this gigantic windfall.
38:25
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, it would be nice if someone could could lay out, hey, we need to do this two-fund some of these other choices that we haven't been able to make.
38:33
[SPEAKER_02]: That would be great, but it doesn't seem like that's really what this is.
38:36
[SPEAKER_02]: And that that to me is what's frustrating.
38:38
[SPEAKER_02]: And it is trying to create some fain hope and belief within these programs.
38:43
[SPEAKER_02]: And I don't know, we can't keep expanding it forever.
38:49
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no $0.90, $0.60, it doesn't work.
38:52
[SPEAKER_02]: There's no $0.40, $0.80, it doesn't work.
38:55
[SPEAKER_02]: Like we're pushing all the buttons now and we're hoping it magically creates so a little bit more stability in the ecosystem.
39:02
[SPEAKER_02]: I'm skeptical that it will, but it'd be nice if everybody would just come out and say why they're doing this.
39:07
[SPEAKER_00]: It would be absolutely, and again, at a little more transparency with the financials, always good, especially how much you spending on your players.
39:22
[SPEAKER_00]: The other part of this too, the part that clearly people are not interested in undertaking is cost containment, certainly not for the revenue sports, right?
39:36
[SPEAKER_00]: If they're going to contain costs, it's going to be pit de-emphasizing swimming and cutting their staff in half or whatever the case may be, training table trips, whatever.
39:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Those things are going to go.
39:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There's no interest, like Alabama just gave a massive new contract to a fairly unpopular football coach.
39:56
[SPEAKER_00]: Katelyn DeBord did get him in the playoff.
39:58
[SPEAKER_00]: They also got absolutely dump truck by Indiana in the playoff.
40:03
[SPEAKER_00]: He is not one in SEC championship.
40:06
[SPEAKER_00]: He's lost many regular season games.
40:11
[SPEAKER_00]: They made, he may well end up being worth the money, but he's not worth the money now.
40:19
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to pay the staff, everything they feel like they need to pay the staff.
40:23
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to pay buyouts that are huge buyouts.
40:25
[SPEAKER_00]: They're going to keep doing the things they've been doing because they feel like that they just are not going to even touch fiscal responsibility with the revenue sports.
40:34
[SPEAKER_00]: That becomes the other sports problems, which is part of my problem with this.
40:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Uh, along those lines, looking for them.
40:43
[SPEAKER_00]: other revenue instead of looking at cost containment.
40:46
[SPEAKER_00]: We have is that totally separate issue, but the Duke Amazon thing is interesting.
40:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Duke is cutting a deal with Amazon to show three games that they say the money will be.
40:58
[SPEAKER_00]: largely, partially earmarked for NIL for players.
41:01
[SPEAKER_00]: It's pretty, pretty savvy move, I think, although I wonder what the conferences that control their media rights, particularly the ACC, but then also the teams that are playing against are getting out of the deal.
41:13
[SPEAKER_00]: But this is another matter of big 12th private capital deal.
41:18
[SPEAKER_00]: We've talked about, talked about, talked about.
41:20
[SPEAKER_00]: We have a conference that's going to do it.
41:23
[SPEAKER_00]: We've proved a five-year agreement
41:27
[SPEAKER_00]: Strategic partnership that, uh, let's see here's a, it's a set five year deal and we'll provide $12.5 million capital infusion, which ain't very much, frankly, to help create more commercial revenue for the conference, 16 team conference, 16 school conference, now the school, the league 16 schools also will have access to up to $30 million each.
41:52
[SPEAKER_00]: That's closer to a real number.
41:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Keywords line of credit has to be paid back.
42:01
[SPEAKER_00]: Double digit interest rate over time.
42:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Brian, tell me what do we have here?
42:10
[SPEAKER_00]: And who is this a good idea as the bad idea?
42:16
[SPEAKER_00]: There's risk involved.
42:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Who out of the big 12 team schools do we see possibly jumping in on this?
42:23
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, it's funny, you know, this, this prior story we're just talking about in this story, it makes me think of some athletic directors, you know, going to Jimmy Sexton and saying, no, I can't pay her quite, quite, two extra million dollars.
42:33
[SPEAKER_01]: It's going to save a swimming program.
42:35
[SPEAKER_01]: And just the world that that exists is a rat.
42:38
[SPEAKER_01]: And I mean, this is kind of, you know, that pursuit of more money, you know, and certainly some schools have,
42:44
[SPEAKER_01]: tried to deal with, you know, this this frankly, you know, $20 million plus recurring revenue hit to their issue, you know, expenses, you know, and trying to find creative ways when, you know, cutting expenses does not seem to be one of them, and this is certainly part of that, and you know, we all knew, certainly when you taught an absolute deal a couple of months ago with with ultra capital, that was kind of going to open the floodgates, and the big 12 has been down the slope before, or they've kind of been,
43:10
[SPEAKER_01]: negotiating this for a long time and trying to get something over the line and I would be surprised, you know, to see more than say two or three schools in the big deal to actually take up this offer, you know, certainly you mentioned that, you know, the, the, the, the, in it.
43:26
[SPEAKER_01]: you know interest rate in terms of these this payday loan if you will you can go to your administration whether it's you know the school itself racing some bonds that's where they even the donors you know if you want to avoid paying certain certain percentages and which a lot of these schools are going to do you know like I don't think Texas Tech is necessarily going to say oh great another 30 million dollars when we can go to a code of Campbell
43:48
[SPEAKER_01]: top up that way if you will.
43:50
[SPEAKER_01]: So I think that's going to be of interesting.
43:52
[SPEAKER_01]: This is certainly an option for some of those schools that maybe there are some short-term issues, maybe there are some capital needs that they have in the immediate considerations that they want to kind of get over the line, you know that their donor base is not necessarily on board with yet.
44:06
[SPEAKER_01]: that they think they can kind of push off the actual getting the dollars in since the into the bank accounts earlier.
44:13
[SPEAKER_01]: This is what I do that.
44:14
[SPEAKER_01]: And I don't think this is obviously the first of its kind.
44:18
[SPEAKER_01]: Probably is not going to be the last of its kind, but it is going to be interesting to see which schools ultimately take it up.
44:23
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't think it's going to be some, all right, yes, all 16 schools are signed up.
44:27
[SPEAKER_01]: They're getting the $30 million checks in a way
44:31
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, truthfully, this is probably even more so not necessarily about the overall dollar figures.
44:35
[SPEAKER_01]: It's about having access to the folks at Red Bird, weather for capitals and other one involved in this one.
44:40
[SPEAKER_01]: Just like they're their operative experience, you know, how can we go to our stadium and provide additional revenue and tribute premium seating options?
44:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe they have connections in the ticketing world or whatnot.
44:51
[SPEAKER_01]: That's more of the, I think the ultimate emphasis in terms of the steel and why the, the big 12 offices has pushed it so more so far as well.
45:00
[SPEAKER_01]: And let's face it, you know, when those media rights come up, you know, Redberg couples, another one, and that's, you know, heavily invested in a lot of media companies as well.
45:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Maybe there's some doors to be opened there down the road.
45:11
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, where you kind of think
45:12
[SPEAKER_01]: Not only the next four or five years, but made this more of a five 10, 15 year time horizon where you're thinking, all right, just getting in bed with these guys could be potentially beneficial for the conference at large.
45:24
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, if I was a.
45:28
[SPEAKER_02]: all the way up to a governor in the state if I was running a university administration beyond athletics, I would eat some serious answers as to how Redbird capital is helping me if I'm allowing my athletic department to take a $30 million high interest rate loan.
45:45
[SPEAKER_02]: Like that feels really dicey to me, particularly again.
45:49
[SPEAKER_02]: It would imply to me that there are fewer levers to pull to get more money, right?
45:55
[SPEAKER_02]: 30 million dollars is not so much cash.
45:57
[SPEAKER_02]: It like it couldn't be done through the school or through a bank or through the state state funding.
46:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like again, like this is what we do when we build stadiums.
46:07
[SPEAKER_02]: This is all stuff that has been done in the past.
46:10
[SPEAKER_02]: So if I'm, again, I would need some serious answers how Red Bird is helping me get to the finish line
46:18
[SPEAKER_02]: to sign off on this deal and how we're paying it back because
46:23
[SPEAKER_02]: Again, if this is just like cover some costs, we've got big problems here, right?
46:28
[SPEAKER_02]: This needs to be a clearly targeted investment towards future revenue.
46:32
[SPEAKER_02]: And again, $30 million is a lot of money.
46:35
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's not trivialize it, but it's not so much money that it's not the thing that's allowing you to like do the mixed use entertainment district around your stadium or something like that, right?
46:45
[SPEAKER_02]: It's a small sliver of something like that that schools are hunting for giant pay days down the road.
46:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Right, exactly.
46:53
[SPEAKER_00]: That's yes.
46:53
[SPEAKER_00]: If you're adding a $600 million entertainment district around a stadium like Nebraska, that's not all that money's going for, but that's a whole different price point than what 30 million is going to do for you.
47:07
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would think, you know, somewhat Brian's point that like the the friendly local bank that the CEO or president of is one of your boosters could probably get you a better interest rate.
47:21
[SPEAKER_00]: for a line of credit if you need one than that.
47:24
[SPEAKER_00]: So I remain skeptical of public and a private equity in all these situations, but I understand why people are looking at every avenue possible.
47:35
[SPEAKER_00]: One league that cannot cry poverty, big ten.
47:40
[SPEAKER_00]: Financial report, whoa, baby, came out and the league distributed 1.37 billion
47:49
[SPEAKER_00]: dollars to its 18 members.
47:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Easily the most for one year for any conference.
47:57
[SPEAKER_00]: The interesting thing to me is, well, congratulations to the athletic directors who now get to splurge with that money.
48:06
[SPEAKER_00]: But in the GMS for your football and basketball teams, but the interesting thing to me is that less than a year ago, the league nearly sold 10%
48:19
[SPEAKER_00]: in itself for 2.4 billion to a not private equity, but a private capital venture.
48:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about that.
48:29
[SPEAKER_00]: Think about the amount of money they're making.
48:31
[SPEAKER_00]: They nearly gave away 10% for not much more than that less than double what they made in a year.
48:39
[SPEAKER_00]: So I was another brilliant Tony Petiti plan that went awry because the rest of the league said enough members of the league said no.
48:47
[SPEAKER_00]: We're not going to do it.
48:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But it does give rise that dollar figure jumps off the page and it does.
48:53
[SPEAKER_00]: Further, I guess increase the question whether the Big Ten has the ways and the means to continue to separate from the SEC and everyone else.
49:04
[SPEAKER_00]: Kevin, what do you think?
49:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Yeah, I mean, look, I think the Big Ten is the most sort of professional national sports league among college sports right now.
49:15
[SPEAKER_02]: Let's be like, like the SEC is the SEC, the brands are incredible, but if the Big Ten was trying to do its own thing, it would make much more sense as a national sports enterprise than what the SEC is.
49:27
[SPEAKER_02]: That is how the league is positioned itself now with with, you know,
49:30
[SPEAKER_02]: really over, well over a decade of realignment dating back to Maryland and Rutgers and now with the West Coast corridor, it does feel like there is a little bit of separation.
49:40
[SPEAKER_02]: Doesn't mean that the SEC won't catch up.
49:42
[SPEAKER_02]: I think a lot of this will end up being sort of as TV deals gets staggered.
49:45
[SPEAKER_02]: The SEC will top the big ten and the big ten will get its new TV deal and it will be better than the SEC and they will consistently kind of jockey back and forth.
49:52
[SPEAKER_02]: But if you're running the money and you're running the championships like
49:56
[SPEAKER_02]: It's hard to argue with where the big 10 is positioned right now.
50:00
[SPEAKER_02]: And so I think right now, it does feel that they have the leg up.
50:03
[SPEAKER_02]: And it does probably add a little bit of pressure to Greg Sanky and the SEC to, like, how do we respond to this?
50:09
[SPEAKER_02]: We cannot allow ourselves to be viewed as anything but the best.
50:14
[SPEAKER_01]: on this re-emphasizes, too, just, you know, the big tid is in major markets, you know, that the SEC is not, you know, and there's certainly some overlap in terms of the SEC and the ACC footprint that certainly distracts from them and vice versa, and I think at the end of the day, this is kind of, you know, big, large state schools, you know, kind of, finally coming around in the big, then, to realizing that the power that they have, you know, that they're massive alumni bases when they are getting
50:38
[SPEAKER_01]: maybe it's small amounts, but it can, it can certainly add up in ways that some of the SEC's goals that are just, frankly, in smaller states have, have smaller alumni bases, you know, just just cannot do.
50:47
[SPEAKER_01]: And as much as, you know, the, the card dealerships throughout the South provided some advantages, you know, back in the day in terms of paying players and, and building rosters and whatnot.
50:56
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know what you're talking about.
50:58
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, but, you know, like that, that's been even doubt a little bit.
51:01
[SPEAKER_01]: And we we have seen the power in the big ten and this was, you know, to Kevin's point about realignment like this is why Kevin warned when after schools in major media markets, you know, they are in the top three DMAs out there, they are, you're controlling, you know, some major media properties at this point and you know, this is this is.
51:19
[SPEAKER_01]: Frankly, what the big hit is now, and I think that delta of over $300 million in terms of what the SEC distributed and what the big-tint distributed is, it's not just having two extra schools to feed, that big-tint as that great advantage.
51:32
[SPEAKER_01]: This is something that I think is probably concerning to a few folks out there in the SEC and say, we care a little bit more about some of these sports and being behind in the muddy, having to deal with that is going to be an interesting thing,
51:48
[SPEAKER_00]: It takes me back to Nick Sabin on those last year, I think maybe it was saying basically that the SEC's advantage is from a football standpoint, certainly has always been the talent.
52:03
[SPEAKER_00]: But when the money shifts things, the talent will go where the money goes.
52:09
[SPEAKER_00]: And now just having the talent in your backyard doesn't necessarily guarantee keeping them,
52:16
[SPEAKER_00]: And then winning with them.
52:19
[SPEAKER_00]: So it is a change in dynamic here, because the big 10 for the reasons you guys illuminate it.
52:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, bigger alumni bases, generally speaking, richer alumni bases, richer cities and areas that you're in, bigger medium markets, those are built in advantages.
52:38
[SPEAKER_00]: The SEC overcame all of that.
52:41
[SPEAKER_00]: for a long, long, long time by having the best players.
52:46
[SPEAKER_00]: But if the best players who are willing to leave the South for the money elsewhere, as Saban said, if you follow the money, then the money that becomes a bigger issue for the SEC.
52:58
[SPEAKER_00]: I am not writing the epitaph for the SEC.
53:00
[SPEAKER_00]: But it's a continuing trend that we will talk about, it's extensively here.
53:07
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, guys, just two more things here.
53:09
[SPEAKER_00]: First thing I want to hit on as we've made mentioned over the beginning and people know I attended the Kentucky Derby for the 39th consecutive year here and the scene was incredibly, I mean, it was awesome.
53:24
[SPEAKER_00]: It was a very dramatic race.
53:26
[SPEAKER_00]: uh but the the scene that I think really kind of got everybody is the video of the winning trainer, Sherry Devo, of the horse golden temple, tempo, who became the first female trainer to win a race and her watching her horse come down the stretch from way back.
53:49
[SPEAKER_00]: There's we're rolling the video now on the YouTube channel here.
53:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Kent thank you.
53:54
[SPEAKER_00]: watching Sharedevo watch her horse jumping up and down fist pumping, slapping the wall.
54:01
[SPEAKER_00]: She was leaning on jumping up on the wall basically kicking her legs screaming for her horse to come home and then he wins and she is just saying, oh my god, oh my god, oh my god, and then collapsing enjoy basically into her friends and family.
54:18
[SPEAKER_00]: one of the great scenes you're going to see.
54:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, just awesome.
54:21
[SPEAKER_00]: And here's my humble plate.
54:25
[SPEAKER_00]: I want football and basketball coaches to be more like Sharia Deville.
54:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I want them to enjoy winning so much that they basically black out and lose their minds.
54:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay, man.
54:36
[SPEAKER_00]: You can enjoy winning.
54:37
[SPEAKER_00]: And,
54:38
[SPEAKER_00]: This is incredibly dramatic and it kind of came out of nowhere, right?
54:46
[SPEAKER_00]: It wasn't like she was watching her horse pull away and went by five links.
54:49
[SPEAKER_00]: But there's nothing wrong with spontaneous joy.
54:54
[SPEAKER_00]: We have coaches and they're great coaches and a lot of them are great people.
54:57
[SPEAKER_00]: But have turned coaching into almost a joyless enterprise while they're actually doing it.
55:03
[SPEAKER_00]: And I would just love to see them enjoy.
55:04
[SPEAKER_00]: I would love to see Jimmy Valvano.
55:06
[SPEAKER_00]: Run across the court, looking for somebody to hug.
55:11
[SPEAKER_00]: J-Ride is a great coach and I like J-Ride a bunch.
55:14
[SPEAKER_00]: When you win the championship on a 27 foot shot and just go, bang.
55:19
[SPEAKER_00]: I'm sorry, I'd like a little more.
55:20
[SPEAKER_00]: I'd like a little bit more.
55:22
[SPEAKER_00]: Rick Petino's an emotional guy when you watch Dylan darling of all people drive and score at the buzzer to win NCAA Tournament game.
55:29
[SPEAKER_00]: I would like more than for him to just turn on his heel and walk over and shake hands with Bill South.
55:34
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay, jump.
55:36
[SPEAKER_00]: Yeah.
55:37
[SPEAKER_00]: Hug somebody.
55:38
[SPEAKER_00]: It's all right.
55:39
[SPEAKER_00]: The football coach is especially.
55:41
[SPEAKER_00]: It feels like it's showing weakness if you actually have any emotion or if you enjoy yourself.
55:47
[SPEAKER_00]: So that's my humble plea.
55:49
[SPEAKER_00]: Guys, can we get it?
55:51
[SPEAKER_00]: Can anybody be happy?
55:52
[SPEAKER_00]: Can you at least show your happy out there as it possible?
55:57
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I think about the Nashville Championship game in basketball this year, and then the story's afterwards in a Montenol Inter from CBS, then a nice story with Dusty May, and he was like, yeah, didn't really get to enjoy it, had to move to the portal.
56:09
[SPEAKER_02]: We had to do zooms.
56:11
[SPEAKER_02]: You didn't have to do zooms.
56:12
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, I don't, I don't, like, I understand this is how you're wired, this is how you succeeded.
56:17
[SPEAKER_02]: But like,
56:18
[SPEAKER_02]: If any college basketball player in the portal is not considering Michigan because they took 48 hours to celebrate winning the championship or they didn't get a text to 1201 when the portal opened like Come on guys like it isn't that serious.
56:31
[SPEAKER_02]: It will never be any that serious and if you can't have your staff or someone in that world communicate To these players or to their representatives.
56:41
[SPEAKER_02]: Hey, like
56:42
[SPEAKER_02]: we're interested like what we'll give you a call in a couple of days when we're done winning the championship and celebrating the championship and being with our players and being present with our players like that that that should that's probably not the guy you wanted in your locker room anyway if that kid didn't that isn't okay with that you probably don't want
56:58
[SPEAKER_02]: So yeah, I 100% agree with you.
57:00
[SPEAKER_02]: I think it's it's true both in the moment and especially now in kind of this championship era.
57:04
[SPEAKER_02]: Like again, it's not always about the next thing.
57:07
[SPEAKER_02]: It's not always about the next challenge.
57:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I understand that and I think we as we as writer sometimes do fall into that trap of oh, you know, how how how how how are we doing it next year.
57:17
[SPEAKER_02]: I don't know man.
57:18
[SPEAKER_02]: Like this is the crowning achievement of your life.
57:21
[SPEAKER_02]: If you, like, dusty, may I share you to vote?
57:25
[SPEAKER_02]: Like, this is the greatest, this should be the greatest moment of their life.
57:28
[SPEAKER_02]: If they're thinking about anything other than soaking in the greatest moment of their life, we've done something wrong.
57:33
[SPEAKER_02]: We should want all of them to enjoy the moment, the way that she did in that whole box that it was, incredible scene and certainly in a great moment there over the weekend.
57:43
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I was kind of thinking like, I know she's in the commonwealth now, but, you know, that was a New Yorker kind of reaction in terms of the celebration.
57:49
[SPEAKER_01]: And, you know, you play to win the game, right?
57:52
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that, that's the whole point is to win the game.
57:54
[SPEAKER_01]: And it's like there should be some sort of celebration around that.
57:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like that, that is the thing that kills me.
57:59
[SPEAKER_01]: Yes, it's probably, you know, part of their their driving force in terms of, you know, trying to not have the highs be too high and the lows be too low.
58:06
[SPEAKER_01]: You know, you always hear coaches talk about that and trying to stay even
58:12
[SPEAKER_01]: on certain moments, like let it out, feel it, like that is the reason that we are all sports fans.
58:18
[SPEAKER_01]: That is the reason we got into these professions is not because necessarily we like the day-to-day grind or jumping on zooms with 18-year-olds asking for $4 million.
58:29
[SPEAKER_01]: the reason we got into it was it was to experience those wins and you would you would hope maybe in terms of the perspectives that these coaches would have they they would open up a little bit better so kudos to your point and certainly making making more derries than either Kevin and I have been alive.
58:44
[SPEAKER_01]: I'm sure that's also another feather in your cap there Pat.
58:47
[SPEAKER_00]: Well, it just means I'm old, but again, I am, I am rooting for coaches to enjoy themselves a little bit when you win a big game.
58:56
[SPEAKER_00]: It's okay.
58:57
[SPEAKER_00]: Do it doesn't mean you're a bad coach or a bad person, but speaking of maybe not bad people, but very bad decisions, close with this.
59:08
[SPEAKER_00]: Michigan State had a meth lab in a classroom building.
59:11
[SPEAKER_00]: That came out, WXYZ police arrested a man for allegedly operating a meth lab inside a building on the campus.
59:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Zintong was found inside Wells Hall on Sunday with several chemicals including Aspen and
59:39
[SPEAKER_00]: This is like Walter White come to life here in Wells Hall.
59:43
[SPEAKER_00]: If you watch Breaking Bad, this definitely was a bad break for the Spartans and for people associated with the lab there.
59:53
[SPEAKER_00]: My question for you guys, I mean, I assume this will not be great career move for Zintong.
1:00:01
[SPEAKER_00]: But,
1:00:04
[SPEAKER_00]: That can't be the only ones, can they?
1:00:06
[SPEAKER_00]: I mean, we can't have, I don't believe that Michigan State is the only university with a meth lab out there.
1:00:15
[SPEAKER_00]: So I want to know.
1:00:17
[SPEAKER_00]: If the Spartans were not alone, what other schools are most likely to have a covert meth lab set up in a classroom building?
1:00:26
[SPEAKER_00]: Kevin, you've got a suspect, I'm sure.
1:00:28
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, I don't feel great about any of these, but I do think, I mean, some of these, it's being directional Midwest campuses, like I bet I bet it's all over the Mac.
1:00:37
[SPEAKER_02]: I bet it's all over the Mac.
1:00:40
[SPEAKER_02]: That could be the new branding.
1:00:41
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, look, we've got Macs, and we've got meth, like we were rocking and rolling.
1:00:48
[SPEAKER_01]: Yeah, I think if we got this in front of Vince Gilligan, the creator breaking bad.
1:00:56
[SPEAKER_01]: What where would he place it?
1:00:57
[SPEAKER_01]: Like obviously New Mexico would be the kind of natural for next New Mexico City.
1:01:01
[SPEAKER_01]: Obviously he knows those areas well, you know that that would be the kind of natural focus where you go, but like.
1:01:08
[SPEAKER_01]: Could you think of like some athletic director, you know, during dreaming up the Walter White scandal in terms of like, all right, I got to find the NIL dollars somehow, you know, leads them down those, you know, like there's there's the show right there, you know, I'm just kind of thinking of which ADs, which schools, you know, Kevin, Kevin got a good one with the Mac there, like I'm also thinking like a certain, like a remote college towns in the south, maybe, you know, or you're thinking like that maybe there's the, there's the place that you do
1:01:35
[SPEAKER_01]: I don't know.
1:01:36
[SPEAKER_01]: It definitely would make, I would watch the show, you know, if it's going to want to sign up for this on a college location, sign me up.
1:01:44
[SPEAKER_00]: No, I mean, I think you hit on exactly.
1:01:46
[SPEAKER_00]: Walter White needed the money to fend for his family because he was going to die a cancery thought.
1:01:51
[SPEAKER_00]: So, I mean, if you need the money for your athletic department, you set it up, you set up shop and you get going, I think you got to look Appalachian.
1:02:00
[SPEAKER_00]: You got to be like West Virginia, Ohio University.
1:02:04
[SPEAKER_00]: There's some spots out there.
1:02:06
[SPEAKER_02]: Be having a question AD.
1:02:08
[SPEAKER_02]: I mean, that's what's put somebody in charge of the meth lab.
1:02:10
[SPEAKER_01]: But let's school with Saul Goodman B, the idea.
1:02:14
[SPEAKER_01]: How'd you, and another question?
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
1:02:16
[SPEAKER_00]: Better call Saul to be your AD.
1:02:18
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, my.
1:02:19
[SPEAKER_00]: There's a thought.
1:02:20
[SPEAKER_00]: Marshall.
1:02:21
[SPEAKER_00]: Oh, boy.
1:02:21
[SPEAKER_00]: There you go.
1:02:22
[SPEAKER_00]: You and I are.
1:02:23
[SPEAKER_00]: I are Saul Goodman.
1:02:25
[SPEAKER_00]: All right, this, this is all in jest.
1:02:28
[SPEAKER_00]: Everybody out there, we're not suggesting that, you know, your school should start a meth lab, or even by pointing make saying their names that we think that, you know, you are a meth centric area.
1:02:38
[SPEAKER_00]: Just have them fun here.
1:02:40
[SPEAKER_00]: That's enough for this show.
1:02:41
[SPEAKER_00]: Thank y'all for watching and we will be back next week with something.
1:02:46
[SPEAKER_00]: I have no idea what