Latest / The People Run Podcast / #28: She Lost the Joy of Running Then Came Back Faster Bianca

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#28: She Lost the Joy of Running Then Came Back Faster Bianca · The People Run Podcast

• 0:00
  SPEAKER_03: I have sort of this block in my mind that, like, well, I've this is just as fast as we go.
• 0:06
  SPEAKER_03: The end.
• 0:11
  SPEAKER_04: Welcome to the People Run Podcast, everyone.
• 0:14
  SPEAKER_04: Thanks for listening.
• 0:15
  SPEAKER_04: Today's guest is Bianca, someone who I met a few years ago when I was living out in Seattle.
• 0:20
  SPEAKER_04: We met together through a mutual run club that's very famous in Seattle, very fun club called CSRD.
• 0:26
  SPEAKER_04: If you've been in Seattle or going to Seattle, check that club out.
• 0:30
  SPEAKER_04: But that's where I met Bianca, who was our guest today.
• 0:32
  SPEAKER_04: At the time we were running, and they do these runs on Mondays, sometimes the weekends.
• 0:36
  SPEAKER_04: We ran and I got really cool from there.
• 0:39
  SPEAKER_04: At the time, she was injured, but was gonna run New York City.
• 0:43
  SPEAKER_04: The same year I was gonna run New York City and somehow still ran the marathon.
• 0:48
  SPEAKER_04: A little bit about her, you know, she started running at a young age, but before that, she was very big into figure skating, found her love for running after, uh, which we'll touch on, and then took a little break and has been crushing it ever since after her break.
• 1:01
  SPEAKER_04: There was some challenges and stuff she had to adjust to fall back in love with running.
• 1:05
  SPEAKER_04: But without further ado, Bianca, thank you for hopping on and and welcome to the People Run podcast.
• 1:10
  SPEAKER_04: How are you today?
• 1:11
  SPEAKER_03: Uh I'm doing great.
• 1:12
  SPEAKER_03: Thank you so much for having me.
• 1:14
  SPEAKER_03: I love the opportunity to talk about running and how it's been a huge part of my life and how my relationship with it has evolved over the years.
• 1:24
  SPEAKER_03: That was a really interesting time when we met.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_03: It was my return to the marathon after uh four and a half, almost five years away from racing at that caliber.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_03: And I was just trying to explore what this could be again and how it could fit back into my life, and it was a really cool time.
• 1:49
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: I agreed.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, vibes were great at the time.
• 1:52
  SPEAKER_04: I remember you were still gonna run it regardless of injury, but uh, you know, like something that I vibe with and the reason I have you on, for those listening, Bianca just runs with a lot of joy and fun.
• 2:02
  SPEAKER_04: That's what's so cool about her.
• 2:03
  SPEAKER_04: She's also a badass, excuse my French, in running as well, which we'll get into.
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_04: But uh, you know, talking about that time, you were injured.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_04: You were, I don't know if I'm gonna run New York City.
• 2:12
  SPEAKER_04: I may run New York City.
• 2:14
  SPEAKER_04: Um did you ever think we would record a podcast?
• 2:17
  SPEAKER_04: And what would you say to that person?
• 2:19
  SPEAKER_04: What's this, three years ago now?
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: It's crazy.
• 2:20
  SPEAKER_04: We're in 2026 now.
• 2:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, you know, I looking back at that person, I was at the beginning of this journey of evolving my relationship with this sport.
• 2:35
  SPEAKER_03: I had been an elite athlete my entire life, and results and competing and trying to be the best had been so important to me for so many years, and then I'd had some failures along the way, and it really took a toll on me.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_03: And so when I stepped away from the sport, I I stepped away in uh 2018, was the last time I had raced, and at that time I thought I was never coming back.
• 3:06
  SPEAKER_03: I thought maybe I would be someone who jogs for fun, and I continued to run during that whole time off.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_03: I just didn't enter any races.
• 3:14
  SPEAKER_03: When I decided to come back, my main goal was to just have fun.
• 3:20
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 3:21
  SPEAKER_03: I uh at the time I came back, I wore a ton of glitter when I would race, and I still wear glitter sometimes.
• 3:28
  SPEAKER_03: I would wear ribbons in my hair and just kind of make it like a celebration of what I was capable of, yeah.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um and kind of an exploration.
• 3:38
  SPEAKER_03: And at the time, I don't know that I would have described it this way at the time, but in hindsight, I realized I was just really curious to see what this former elite athlete still had in me, you know.
• 3:53
  SPEAKER_03: What am I still capable of at this stage of my life?
• 3:57
  SPEAKER_03: So I heading into New York, I did end up getting injured.
• 4:02
  SPEAKER_03: I was not used to running at that caliber again.
• 4:04
  SPEAKER_03: I also tried super shoes for the first time, and I ended up with an Achilles injury that caused me to take about a month off running in September before the New York City Marathon.
• 4:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so I trained almost exclusively as cross-training, and then I did a return to run program in October, and the goal was just to get to the start line healthy and have fun.
• 4:33
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and I did that, and I got to the start line without any pain.
• 4:38
  SPEAKER_03: I went out there and had a ton of fun, and that really started this return to pushing myself and seeing where we can take the sport.
• 4:46
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, for sure.
• 4:48
  SPEAKER_04: Honestly, thinking back on that time, I remember you were like, I'm just gonna run it for joy, and it was my first.
• 4:52
  SPEAKER_04: I should have probably listened to that.
• 4:55
  SPEAKER_04: Um personally, I was, you know, I was with the group and everyone's like, I'm running this pace, this pace, and I had a time in mind, and I did not do that, especially New York being such a hilly and bridges all over.
• 5:05
  SPEAKER_04: But uh, you definitely had a fun race where I had a very brutal New York City marathon.
• 5:10
  SPEAKER_04: I think that was the first year where New York marathon started getting hot too as well, or maybe the year before that was super hot.
• 5:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um, so that part stuck for me, but um, you know, touching on that, you you kind of mentioned you took a break from running, and that was kind of the pivot point that that time where we like met, where you were starting to get back in love with it.
• 5:27
  SPEAKER_04: But why'd you take the break?
• 5:29
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know what happened, and then we'll we'll eventually get in how you came back.
• 5:34
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, the journey to the break starts really early.
• 5:38
  SPEAKER_03: So bear with me.
• 5:40
  SPEAKER_03: I, as you mentioned at the top, I actually started running in elementary school.
• 5:46
  SPEAKER_03: I at the time I was already a figure skater, I was a ballet dancer, I had started those sports as a toddler, and I started running because my school did these annual Terry Fox runs.
• 6:01
  SPEAKER_03: These are they happen in Canada.
• 6:03
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if they happen down here in the US, but it was, you know, a little fun run that was a fundraiser for cancer research.
• 6:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would participate participate in those.
• 6:13
  SPEAKER_03: And then in grade three, we were allowed to start competing in cross country.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so I went out for cross country, and it was really just a fun activity that I could participate in school because my other sports were outside of school, so it gave me something, you know, I could be part of the team.
• 6:33
  SPEAKER_03: And I I still remember the smell of cross country.
• 6:38
  SPEAKER_03: I like if I'm in a park and like it, you know, in the fall and there's the grass, and I don't know, there's something about it that's very nostalgic, you know.
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and so yeah, running was just this fun thing I did for a long time.
• 6:56
  SPEAKER_03: And then as I, you know, proceeded in my sports, I was very competitive in figure skating.
• 7:04
  SPEAKER_03: Uh and I also got bullied a lot in elementary school and high school.
• 7:12
  SPEAKER_03: I was so into my sport and I tried so hard, and for whatever reason I was getting bullied.
• 7:18
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the tools that I used to cope with the bullying, maybe from my parents or the adults that were around me, was to lean into the fact that, like, well, I'm gonna go to the Olympics, so it doesn't matter, you know, whatever they're saying doesn't matter.
• 7:35
  SPEAKER_03: And my entire identity kind of got wrapped up in me as an athlete.
• 7:41
  SPEAKER_03: And throughout my high school, while while I was competing in figure skating, my entire identity was Bianca the figure skater, Bianca the athlete.
• 7:53
  SPEAKER_03: And then my figure skating career ended when I was 17.
• 7:58
  SPEAKER_03: Uh instead of grieving that loss, I went off to college and I kept my athlete identity by joining by walking onto my cross-country and track team in college.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_03: And so now the identity I'd have as a figure skater just sort of transferred to, okay, well, now I'm an elite athlete as a runner, and I still put all of my value and all of my everything, my whole survival, into whether I was good or bad at a race and whether I succeeded.
• 8:31
  SPEAKER_03: That continued after graduation when I decided to pick up the marathon for the first time.
• 8:37
  SPEAKER_03: I had never really evolved my relationship with the sport, other than if I succeed, I am good, or I'm a good person, or I have value.
• 8:50
  SPEAKER_03: If I do poorly, I suck, or whatever language you use for yourself.
• 8:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so I did three marathons.
• 8:59
  SPEAKER_03: I ran the Vancouver marathon, I ran Boston, and I ran Chicago all in my mid-20s.
• 9:05
  SPEAKER_03: And I wasn't the joy was gone.
• 9:09
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 9:11
  SPEAKER_03: I I wasn't it wasn't it just I couldn't I couldn't describe it at the time, but it was just gone.
• 9:18
  SPEAKER_03: So I I thought, you know, okay, maybe maybe this is over.
• 9:22
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of why I left.
• 9:24
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, for those four and a half years between uh between my marathons, if you want to put it that way, you know, I went back to school, I started a new career, I got married, I moved to the US, I started cultivating this really full life.
• 9:43
  SPEAKER_03: And so by the time I got back to running, it was just sort of one of the things I did.
• 9:49
  SPEAKER_03: It was in combination with all these other parts of my identity, it was just okay, and we run.
• 9:56
  SPEAKER_03: And it took all this pressure off all of a sudden.
• 9:59
  SPEAKER_03: So I don't know if I answered your question with that long-winded road, but essentially when I returned to the marathon, it was I felt like so much weight was off my shoulders in with respect to the result, and the result would be cool, but I just it was kind of a celebration of the person that I am and that I get to be while pursuing this endeavor.
• 10:24
  SPEAKER_04: It sounds like the correct me if I'm wrong here.
• 10:27
  SPEAKER_04: Like when you were figure skating, you just basically kept your whole athlete mindset.
• 10:30
  SPEAKER_04: I think you just shared that, but like you just kept the goals attached to wanting to be uh Olympian, just kept it as like say hey, I want to be a pro at this or an Olympian at some day, and you just didn't turn off then make a transition.
• 10:42
  SPEAKER_04: Was that what it felt like?
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_04: And and what do you think caused that?
• 10:47
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I think I actually recently heard this way of describing identity that I think is really fitting here.
• 10:59
  SPEAKER_03: I heard identify identity, your identity being described as a house.
• 11:05
  SPEAKER_03: And when I was in my figure skating era, my house of identity had only one room.
• 11:14
  SPEAKER_03: It was a single-room house, and that room was figure skater.
• 11:18
  SPEAKER_03: And there was nothing else, there was no room for anything else.
• 11:21
  SPEAKER_03: It was my sole focus.
• 11:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so when my skating career ended, and um my career ended due to an injury, I fractured a vertebrae in my back, and there were a few other factors that sort of went into the end of my career at 17.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_03: My house, it was as if my house had caught on fire.
• 11:38
  SPEAKER_03: And since there was only one room, if the fire happened in that one room, the whole house was gone, and I was kind of my identity was almost homeless.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
• 11:46
  SPEAKER_03: And at that time, I developed a pretty serious eating disorder.
• 11:52
  SPEAKER_03: And the eating disorder can almost be described as like the tent that was pitched outside of my house.
• 11:58
  SPEAKER_03: And I moved into the tent and I just identified with this eating disorder, and it was that became my whole identity and my whole way of survival was you know, I don't have athlete anymore, but at least I have controlling food, controlling my body in this way.
• 12:14
  SPEAKER_03: And even as I went to treatment and physically got back on track, I never fully rebuilt the rooms in my house until I took that break back in 2018.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_03: And in hindsight, during that time, I still kept the athlete room, you know, like I'd go to the gym.
• 12:37
  SPEAKER_03: I would go running.
• 12:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, like I'd go, I'd go running with a Timex instead of a Garmin and you know, just go for 20 minutes or whatever.
• 12:48
  SPEAKER_03: And there was no races on the calendar, but in the meantime, I was building all these new rooms.
• 12:53
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I was going back, I was back in school, I was starting a new career.
• 12:56
  SPEAKER_03: I'm an attorney now.
• 12:58
  SPEAKER_03: That's one of the rooms.
• 13:00
  SPEAKER_03: I had moved to a new city and was making new friends and building a new community.
• 13:07
  SPEAKER_03: So, like community member really kind of got became cultivated and became another one of the rooms.
• 13:13
  SPEAKER_03: You know, there was all of these different rooms surrounding the athlete room that were built up over the time that I wasn't so focused on racing and so focused on results and so focused on like being the best.
• 13:28
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, it's like it's you know, all or nothing.
• 13:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so then by the time I came back to the marathon in 2023 and then started setting bigger and bigger goals in 2024 and 2025, it's almost as if I had like the safety to try again.
• 13:48
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 13:49
  SPEAKER_03: Because if the running thing failed, quote unquote, aka I didn't hit the time goal that I set, or I got an injury, which happened in 2023.
• 14:01
  SPEAKER_03: I had my community room and I had my career room, and I had like my family room, and I had all of these other rooms to sort of hold me and take care of me while um you know the running room was being repaired, if you want to continue the metaphor.
• 14:17
  SPEAKER_03: So so yeah, that's kind of really I think where I'm at now.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_03: Like um running is I I feel like I have the freedom to really go for it.
• 14:28
  SPEAKER_03: And if I achieve these goals, amazing.
• 14:32
  SPEAKER_03: But also if I don't, like I'm gonna be okay, and that's kind of really the fun of it.
• 14:37
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: Well, that's awesome.
• 14:39
  SPEAKER_04: And I I love that analogy about the house with different rooms.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_04: I I think it's so important, especially in running.
• 14:44
  SPEAKER_04: We get so caught up on the times and the race and all the majors, and if I everyone listening, I'm sure you can relate, you know, the training block, what this week, next week, progression, all that fun stuff.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_04: But like I love that analogy about building other rooms and having other things to like basically the foundation of the house, you know, to use a cliche.
• 15:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, exactly.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_03: Exactly, exactly.
• 15:08
  SPEAKER_03: You can, you know, you can you can push the analogy further.
• 15:12
  SPEAKER_03: We describe marathon training as like, you know, laying the bricks or or putting in the brick or or or um you know, it's the same thing.
• 15:21
  SPEAKER_03: It's you're when um another thing that's one of my current mantras is when you work on your goals, your goals work on you.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so if your goal is to run X pace at in the marathon, or or be whatever time in the marathon, you're gonna take all these steps and do all these actions towards that goal.
• 15:48
  SPEAKER_03: But then by doing those actions, like you're gonna change and evolve.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_00: Exactly.
• 15:52
  SPEAKER_03: And hopefully in a great way.
• 15:55
  SPEAKER_03: Like, I love how the process of marathoning has helped me evolve over the last couple of years.
• 16:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's a lot of fun.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_04: No, I love that and agreed with with that uh that mantra.
• 16:05
  SPEAKER_04: Talking about those bricks, right?
• 16:06
  SPEAKER_04: I'm gonna keep this analogy going.
• 16:08
  SPEAKER_04: Yes.
• 16:09
  SPEAKER_04: It sounds like around that brick, you were able to shift from the athlete and and maybe weren't in the best of like proper training and joy of it, but we eventually in that four-year gap went to like building the bricks and and finding the joy back again and building the Bianca that we see today.
• 16:27
  SPEAKER_04: What happened during those four years?
• 16:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what helped you build that you know, foundation to a full house to have that five-bedroom and three-bath.
• 16:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, it's kind of expensive in Seattle, but you get my point.
• 16:39
  SPEAKER_03: Hey, I get your point.
• 16:40
  SPEAKER_03: No, for sure.
• 16:41
  SPEAKER_03: There was a few things going on.
• 16:43
  SPEAKER_03: I have to acknowledge that.
• 16:46
  SPEAKER_03: So I I mentioned previous earlier that I had a clinical eating disorder.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_03: It was anorexic and bulimic.
• 16:53
  SPEAKER_03: I got professional help.
• 16:55
  SPEAKER_03: I went to intensive outpatient outpatient treatment, and then from there I worked with an eating disorder specialist, dietitian.
• 17:03
  SPEAKER_03: I was also in therapy for many years for the entirety of that break.
• 17:08
  SPEAKER_03: And I continue to be in therapy and I continue to work with a dietitian to this day.
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_03: I really had to reassess my relationship with the sport of running and figure out if it could still safely fit into my life.
• 17:28
  SPEAKER_03: And one of the things that we, as in myself and the team around me, determined was that I was an athlete before I developed the eating disorder.
• 17:41
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 17:42
  SPEAKER_03: So therefore, there was a future where I could go back to being an athlete if we could process the eating disorder and like move through it.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_03: I say that because there are some folks out there who struggle with eating disorders who pick up the sport as part of their disorder.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 18:04
  SPEAKER_03: And for me, I was already doing the sport, but what happened was my training and relationship with food and relationship with my body and the eating disorder, it all kind of got conflated.
• 18:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so I couldn't really tell the difference between like what was what.
• 18:23
  SPEAKER_03: And so I had to spend years untangling all of that and figuring out why, what, you know, what is my eating disorder, what is me, what is the sport, and kind of like you know, there's there's an image that floats around the internet of like a spool of yarn.
• 18:45
  SPEAKER_03: And when you're in treatment or when you're in therapy, it's like you're you're like unspooling it so that it's no longer this tangled ball, but these like singular strands.
• 18:54
  SPEAKER_03: And I think that's kind of what I was doing during that time was figuring out what is what.
• 19:00
  SPEAKER_03: And when I approached my dietitian in the end of 2022, in 2023, and said, Hey, I think I want to race again.
• 19:10
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, she set out some benchmarks, you know.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_03: Um, she weighed me, which is something that I'm not allowed to know.
• 19:20
  SPEAKER_03: She knows my physical weight, she tracked my food on my behalf to make sure that I'm getting enough and that we're fueling.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_03: And, you know, yeah, we put all these sort of guardrails in place so that if I'm gonna do this, we're gonna do it safely.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_03: By taking the energy energy away from the goals of achievement in running, uh, by almost like loosening my grasp on those goals, I was able to focus on these other things and come back and you know, really go for it now.
• 19:51
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I I love that.
• 19:52
  SPEAKER_04: And first and foremost, thanks for sharing that.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, as we've spoken this about this off this recording, like running for us, at least us talking here now for those listening, is is a life journey.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_04: And like what's four years sounds like a lot, but what's four years in the in the realm of progressing and improving yourself?
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, Americans are still gonna be there.
• 20:13
  SPEAKER_04: There's still well, the majors are getting crazy, but it's a whole bunch more races going on, so it's it's amazing, um, you know, to see that transition.
• 20:21
  SPEAKER_04: But uh um, you know, touching on that, you went on to after setting some very big goals.
• 20:27
  SPEAKER_04: Uh I remember London was next on the goal and wanted to maybe hit a sub three and went for London.
• 20:33
  SPEAKER_04: And you talked about, you know, we're in the glitter.
• 20:35
  SPEAKER_04: I remember seeing that.
• 20:36
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what was that London experience like and starting to go from like, okay, I had my injury, I ran New York, I had my fun, like game face on.
• 20:45
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, with everything you had just you basically grew into a new person and like a lot stronger, better, and faster.
• 20:51
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so the sub three goal was actually something I set back in 2017.
• 20:59
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 21:00
  SPEAKER_03: My very first marathon was the Vancouver Marathon.
• 21:03
  SPEAKER_03: My goal that I'd set for that race was to qualify for Boston.
• 21:08
  SPEAKER_03: I successfully did that.
• 21:10
  SPEAKER_03: I ran around 319, which was, you know, hit the standard at the time.
• 21:14
  SPEAKER_01: Yep.
• 21:15
  SPEAKER_03: And so my inexperienced and not as evolved self, I guess you could say, set the sub-free goal.
• 21:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I was not successful.
• 21:28
  SPEAKER_03: And I tried again at Chicago, I was not successful.
• 21:32
  SPEAKER_03: And then I, you know, I took my break that we just just talked about, and I sort of put that goal like in a box on the very back shelf.
• 21:40
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, maybe we'll never pick it up again.
• 21:43
  SPEAKER_03: Even when I was doing, you know, training for New York, yeah, it wasn't on my radar.
• 21:48
  SPEAKER_03: But we got through New York and we were now healthy, and so I thought, okay, let's go for it.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_03: And so yeah, I I went for it at London.
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_03: I was unsuccessful, uh, but I did run a 15-minute PR, so it was still like a really good day.
• 22:08
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and there was just so many positives to take away from it.
• 22:12
  SPEAKER_03: Like I had really leaned into our Seattle running community and made some incredible friends along the way, and we pushed each other and trained together.
• 22:23
  SPEAKER_03: I was able to go on a vacation to London with my husband, which was so fun.
• 22:29
  SPEAKER_03: And we got to, you know, do some, we got to go to Wimbledon and do some other cool things when we were there.
• 22:36
  SPEAKER_03: Um so yeah, I technically failed, if you want to say that the you know, the goal was sub-3 and I ran 305, but it was such a great learning experience, and it set me up to try again.
• 22:57
  SPEAKER_03: And so I did I tried again in at the Ventura Marathon back in February of 2025, and at that race I ran uh three flat 16.
• 23:14
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I got really close, really close that time, and again, you know, I I was bummed because I think when you really love something and you pour your heart and soul into it, you give it the power to hurt your feelings and to break your heart.
• 23:34
  SPEAKER_03: And so it did, it did.
• 23:36
  SPEAKER_03: I was so close, but I wasn't like devastated in the way I had been back in 2017 or back in 2018.
• 23:45
  SPEAKER_03: I, you know, I was disappointed, and there were so many positives to take away from it, you know.
• 23:51
  SPEAKER_03: I was really learning how to fuel, I was leaning into the high carb revolution, was running the most volume I've ever run in my entire life, even more than when I was in college.
• 24:04
  SPEAKER_03: So there was all these big takeaways, and so I tried again.
• 24:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I tried again in Victoria in at the Victoria Marathon in 2025, and I ran a 258.
• 24:19
  SPEAKER_03: So yeah, it was a really cool, awesome, exciting day, and again, it was so interesting because it just like the two attempts before came up short, and I was not as upset as I thought I would be when I when I achieved the 258.
• 24:41
  SPEAKER_03: I don't I wasn't as exhilarated and life-changingly happy as I expected I could be because I think I've I've loosened my grip on these goals, and so I've they don't have as much power over how I move forward in my life.
• 24:59
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm also so happy.
• 25:01
  SPEAKER_03: It was really it was a really fun day.
• 25:03
  SPEAKER_03: I definitely took some time off and enjoyed it, but but yeah, it's been a really cool journey.
• 25:08
  SPEAKER_04: That's freaking amazing, and I'm probably gonna put 258 in big bowl letters.
• 25:12
  SPEAKER_04: I'm kidding.
• 25:14
  SPEAKER_04: But uh when was you had these three races, right?
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_04: You're you're back, right?
• 25:20
  SPEAKER_04: And you got these three races, and well, first off, let me backtrack.
• 25:23
  SPEAKER_04: Was it more of an afterthought the sub three after as you came back from your break, or was like part of the goal was like, look, I'm back, I feel great, but I'm also running sub three?
• 25:34
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really great question.
• 25:36
  SPEAKER_03: So after New York, the goal I wrote down for London was to PR.
• 25:44
  SPEAKER_02: Okay.
• 25:46
  SPEAKER_03: 20 minutes from three 319, my very first marathon had was still my PR.
• 25:52
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 25:54
  SPEAKER_03: That just seemed like such a large amount of time.
• 25:59
  SPEAKER_03: And so initially I said, okay, 319.
• 26:03
  SPEAKER_03: And for that block, I ended up working with a coach, and my coach at the time saw my workouts after the first month of training and said, I really think you can run sub-three.
• 26:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so I decided to go for it.
• 26:22
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, and I, you know, my coach is believing in me, so I decided to believe in me and you know, see what, see what would happen.
• 26:32
  SPEAKER_03: Um, so yeah, that's kind of how it sort of came together as the goal for that build.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_04: I was curious on that.
• 26:39
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, obviously you're coming back and you're training and having great success.
• 26:42
  SPEAKER_04: On that save note, like, what came first through?
• 26:45
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what did you think?
• 26:46
  SPEAKER_04: You crossed the finish line at London.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_04: It's been years since you run yeah, you ran New York, but like, hey, I'm going all out this race.
• 26:52
  SPEAKER_04: What came across your mind in London?
• 26:54
  SPEAKER_04: Obviously, there was a a big sense of joy, but did you feel like the athlete again, but better?
• 26:59
  SPEAKER_03: I was surprised at how stoked I was.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 27:03
  SPEAKER_03: Which sounds so silly, but I, you know, a month into the build, I'd set the sub-three goal and then I crossed the line, and I don't run sub three.
• 27:14
  SPEAKER_03: So, according to my old self, failure.
• 27:19
  SPEAKER_03: But I crossed the line and I just run this huge PR.
• 27:23
  SPEAKER_03: My my body felt great.
• 27:25
  SPEAKER_03: I had fueled throughout the race, I had so much fun out there, I couldn't not be stoked.
• 27:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so, so yeah, I think I it was really awesome.
• 27:37
  SPEAKER_03: And I yeah, I really loved it.
• 27:40
  SPEAKER_04: It's gotta be a great feeling, you know, coming back to running.
• 27:43
  SPEAKER_04: And then this big PR, new city, like I've been to London as well.
• 27:46
  SPEAKER_04: It's it's an amazing city.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: I loved it.
• 27:48
  SPEAKER_04: Uh what would you say, like, was the the breakthrough for you, you know, as you continue and you're continuing to progress in running now, um, after the break and whatnot, like was it mental first, physical?
• 27:59
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what did you feel was the biggest breakthrough?
• 28:05
  SPEAKER_03: I think I think it was all of the above.
• 28:12
  SPEAKER_04: All the above, okay.
• 28:13
  SPEAKER_03: I think, you know, I'm really big on mantras, and there is this one mantra that is from well, I heard it from the famous Alexi Pappas.
• 28:23
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know if she got it from somewhere else, but it's actions first, then thoughts, then feelings.
• 28:30
  SPEAKER_04: Ooh, I like that.
• 28:32
  SPEAKER_03: And I find it applicable in marathon training in so many ways, but for me, one of the things that I really had to learn in this return to marathoning was how to fuel for the marathon.
• 28:48
  SPEAKER_03: By the time I returned to racing in 2023, I was firmly in recovery from my eating disorder.
• 28:56
  SPEAKER_03: I was eating enough for a normal person who doesn't run marathons.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 29:01
  SPEAKER_03: But marathon fueling is different.
• 29:05
  SPEAKER_03: It is more.
• 29:06
  SPEAKER_03: Oh, yeah.
• 29:07
  SPEAKER_03: And I was very resistant to this at first.
• 29:10
  SPEAKER_03: I, despite all the work I'd done in recovery, the idea of having to eat more was a huge battle for me mentally.
• 29:20
  SPEAKER_03: But I wanted to run and I wanted to do the marathon, so I trusted my dietitian, and she said I had to eat more.
• 29:27
  SPEAKER_03: So I took the action and I ate more and I hated it.
• 29:31
  SPEAKER_03: I was so mad all the time.
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_03: I was like, I can't believe I have to eat another whatever.
• 29:36
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, and then my workouts started going better, and my recovery started being faster, and then I started getting faster, and all of a sudden my thoughts about the eating changed.
• 29:53
  SPEAKER_03: I wasn't so mad about it anymore.
• 29:55
  SPEAKER_03: And and then eventually it evolved to where I was actually like stoked that okay, now I get to eat double dessert today, or like whatever, you know.
• 30:06
  SPEAKER_03: Like I'm it the I think the that's really kind of how my thinking has evolved in this I think period of pushing myself and and trying to strive for these goals.
• 30:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, no, for sure.
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_04: And and carbs is definitely the name of the game right now.
• 30:23
  SPEAKER_04: I think more and more research every day is coming for carbs.
• 30:26
  SPEAKER_04: How do you feel now, you know, versus I guess your first try at sub three, you know, like marathon versus the 258, and I know you're training for one now.
• 30:35
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how's the feeling like now?
• 30:38
  SPEAKER_03: So at the Victoria Marathon in October, I actually hit a carb PR as well as a running PR.
• 30:45
  SPEAKER_03: And it was some I I emailed my dietitian afterwards, and in my sort of race recap, we talked about that, and I think we hit roughly 80 grams of carbs an hour or so, is what worked for me.
• 31:01
  SPEAKER_03: And that was a combination of drink mix as well as gels, and I, in training, will fuel on any run that's gonna be longer than an hour.
• 31:15
  SPEAKER_03: And that wasn't an original idea.
• 31:17
  SPEAKER_03: My dietitian told me I had to, and then I adopted it and it started working, and so now I very happily will fuel on any run over an hour.
• 31:28
  SPEAKER_03: I bring a single gel or I bring a bottle with drink mix in it, and I just do it.
• 31:34
  SPEAKER_03: I typically will fuel at like three to four mile increments, and as in take a gel, I guess, every three to four miles, and then I'll have drink mix, and I, you know, every workout is bookended by fuel before, fuel during, fuel after if the run is more than an hour.
• 31:55
  SPEAKER_03: If the run is less than an hour, there's still fuel before, fuel after, you know, within 15 minutes of either end.
• 32:04
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then also I guess the rest of my day, I mean, I'm just making sure I'm I'm getting enough.
• 32:10
  SPEAKER_03: And I I still work with a dietitian to this day.
• 32:13
  SPEAKER_03: We meet up every other week and we talk about fueling, we talk about sometimes my feelings around fueling.
• 32:20
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 32:21
  SPEAKER_03: And I'm sure there's some discussions on carbs with carved.
• 32:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, yeah, exactly.
• 32:28
  SPEAKER_04: What what is your uh dietitian thing now is you run and fuel so much more, you text her, like, hey, I just hit a PR in the race, but more importantly, I had a PR on carves.
• 32:38
  SPEAKER_04: What's that response look like?
• 32:40
  SPEAKER_03: Oh my gosh.
• 32:41
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, she's she seems stoked.
• 32:45
  SPEAKER_03: I mean, I'm stoked, she's stoked.
• 32:47
  SPEAKER_03: I uh I in our early sessions, you know, a few years ago now, I was very stubborn and I would really push back on her advice.
• 33:00
  SPEAKER_03: And there are still times today, to this day, despite the fueling working, where I drag my feet a little bit.
• 33:09
  SPEAKER_03: I'm like, really?
• 33:10
  SPEAKER_03: Do I have to do that?
• 33:12
  SPEAKER_03: But I I do what she says and seems to be working.
• 33:18
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, for sure.
• 33:20
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 33:21
  SPEAKER_04: How's your training now?
• 33:22
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, obviously you've been increasing volume, um, you're running faster.
• 33:27
  SPEAKER_04: Um stream training.
• 33:29
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, how's training cycle look like now?
• 33:32
  SPEAKER_04: I know you're training for a marathon now.
• 33:33
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what's that look like now?
• 33:35
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I am gonna be running a marathon in May, and I'm doing the Vancouver Marathon on May 3rd.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 33:42
  SPEAKER_03: So I actually am not officially in a marathon build until another week from this recording.
• 33:49
  SPEAKER_02: Okay, a week.
• 33:50
  SPEAKER_03: So right now I've just been building at my base.
• 33:54
  SPEAKER_03: I strength train usually about two days a week, and then I do PT exercises every day to, you know, activation, mobility, those types of things.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_03: This block, the biggest thing I'm focusing on is my self-talk and I think my mental preparation, if you want to call it that.
• 34:20
  SPEAKER_03: I'm gonna try to run faster, and I identified over the break from my last marathon that these faster paces sounded really scary to me.
• 34:30
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 34:31
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I calculated the pace I would have to run to run the next goal pace goal marathon that I want to do.
• 34:39
  SPEAKER_03: And I was like, that's impossible.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_03: Like my initial thought was like, that's impossible.
• 34:44
  SPEAKER_03: I can't run that fast.
• 34:46
  SPEAKER_03: And I have been practicing running on feel, first of all, a little bit more, and then also just telling myself that I can do it.
• 34:58
  SPEAKER_03: Maybe I'm gaslighting myself, maybe I can't.
• 35:01
  SPEAKER_03: It's it's impossible to know at this stage, but I say things like, we are fast enough, I can run this pipe, I can run this pace, we've done this before, just like silly little you know, mantras or words of affirmation, positive self-talk to convince myself that actually we are totally capable of whatever this fast scary pace is.
• 35:25
  SPEAKER_03: It's not that scary.
• 35:27
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's kind of something I'm working on.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_03: TBD on whether it's gonna work, but yeah, it it is something that I did in my last blog talking to myself.
• 35:38
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah um in, but yeah, I'm just kind of trying to build on that.
• 35:42
  SPEAKER_04: That definitely is a big one, right?
• 35:44
  SPEAKER_04: Because you got to believe it to make it happen, otherwise it's not gonna happen.
• 35:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um what what are your runs look like now?
• 35:52
  SPEAKER_04: Are you still doing group runs with CSRD and Green Lake and those groups?
• 35:57
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I will do the Saturday morning runs with Green Lake, the Rise and Shine.
• 36:05
  SPEAKER_03: I'm I'm pretty consistent with that run.
• 36:08
  SPEAKER_03: Throughout the week, because of my work schedule, I'm typically not able to do any of the other group runs.
• 36:15
  SPEAKER_03: However, because I have kind of been plugged into the community for the last couple of years, I will find people to meet up with.
• 36:26
  SPEAKER_03: For example, I have to go into the office a couple of days a week now.
• 36:30
  SPEAKER_03: And so on those mornings, I will meet up with someone at 6 a.m.
• 36:34
  SPEAKER_03: and get our workout in.
• 36:36
  SPEAKER_03: And so, yeah, it's a good mix of you know running with the big group every Saturday and then kind of running with a few people here and there throughout the week.
• 36:44
  SPEAKER_03: And then, of course, there's a few runs I gotta do by myself because you just gotta get them in.
• 36:48
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah.
• 36:49
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 36:50
  SPEAKER_04: Are you uh coaching yourself now, or do you still have a coach?
• 36:54
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, so I am coaching myself currently.
• 36:57
  SPEAKER_03: I have the advanced marathoning book from FitSinger, and I have done I love that one.
• 37:04
  SPEAKER_02: That's a good book.
• 37:05
  SPEAKER_03: It's so it's so great, and I I did those plans uh for my last two marathons, and so I'm trying one again for this block with a few modifications uh to bump up my mileage a little bit.
• 37:19
  SPEAKER_03: And I also recently got a Peloton, so I'm using that as a way to increase my base mileage without actually putting miles on my legs on the road.
• 37:31
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, and no shame on a treadmill here, like whatever you gotta do to get it done.
• 37:35
  SPEAKER_04: Uh treadmill definitely does work from what I've seen and tried myself.
• 37:39
  SPEAKER_04: So that's a win there for sure.
• 37:41
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, no, it's great.
• 37:43
  SPEAKER_04: That's a good book, too.
• 37:44
  SPEAKER_04: I've seen the I haven't done the plan, but I do have the book literally like staring right in front of me.
• 37:48
  SPEAKER_04: Um, get plans in there and whatnot.
• 37:50
  SPEAKER_04: So that should be fun.
• 37:51
  SPEAKER_03: Um, yeah, I typically do the 12-week plan.
• 37:55
  SPEAKER_03: It's the perfect amount of time for me personally to feel like I can lock in uh in preparation for the marathon.
• 38:03
  SPEAKER_03: Historically, I've done 16-week plans and I find them to be too long for me.
• 38:08
  SPEAKER_03: The thing is, is that I do still run a lot when I'm not in a plan.
• 38:13
  SPEAKER_03: This week I think I ran somewhere in the 60-mile range.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 38:18
  SPEAKER_03: And so that's my base, and I'd like that to be my starting point base as I move forward and build up from there.
• 38:26
  SPEAKER_04: Big base now, 60.
• 38:28
  SPEAKER_04: Whoa.
• 38:30
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 38:32
  SPEAKER_04: What are you thinking of peaking at?
• 38:35
  SPEAKER_03: I think for this build, the goal will be to be something like 70 to 75.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_03: We're gonna, I'm gonna listen to my body and see how I feel.
• 38:45
  SPEAKER_03: But uh for the Victoria Marathon, I peaked in the low 70s, and I was tired during the build, but I didn't get hurt, and it worked.
• 38:56
  SPEAKER_03: And so I think I'm I'm stronger now, and I'm gonna try that again and see what happens.
• 39:02
  SPEAKER_04: What do you do for recovery?
• 39:04
  SPEAKER_04: Like, you know, obviously 6070 is pretty big.
• 39:06
  SPEAKER_04: You got work, right?
• 39:07
  SPEAKER_04: Like you mentioned, you know, family and friends.
• 39:09
  unknown: Yeah.
• 39:12
  SPEAKER_03: I so there's a few things.
• 39:15
  SPEAKER_03: I'm really protective of my sleep.
• 39:17
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 39:18
  SPEAKER_03: During a marathon block, so I try to get about seven and a half.
• 39:25
  SPEAKER_03: I try to push for eight hours of sleep when I can, and my goal is to just be disciplined and go to bed.
• 39:35
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, so that's a big one.
• 39:36
  SPEAKER_03: And then other than that, I I do I have a scraper, so I you know scrape out the sore spots uh on my muscles.
• 39:46
  SPEAKER_03: Um, but then honestly, and maybe this is gonna sound so silly, but I never used to do warm-up.
• 39:56
  SPEAKER_02: Oh, okay.
• 39:57
  SPEAKER_03: And I started doing warm-up in the last year and a half, and I think it's completely changed my experience of running because my body is activated before I go.
• 40:09
  SPEAKER_03: So honestly, adding in warm-ups and also cooldowns, like stretching afterwards, which I know sounds so basic, but I was a very, you know, I've been an athlete my whole life, and so trying to get teenage me or college me to do warm-up and stretching, that wasn't gonna happen.
• 40:28
  SPEAKER_03: It took a lot of injuries and a lot of struggle for me to finally buy in and say, fine, I'll do that stuff.
• 40:36
  SPEAKER_03: So, so those are kind of the biggest things that I do, uh, making sure I get enough sleep.
• 40:41
  SPEAKER_03: And then during a marathon block, especially kind of in the last eight weeks, like I don't go out really.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_03: Uh, as in I like don't stay out super late, you know.
• 40:51
  SPEAKER_03: I'll still go do something on in an afternoon on a Saturday or or what have you, but I just kind of choose to lock in uh for a short period of time, and and that tends to work.
• 41:03
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 41:04
  SPEAKER_04: Talking about locking in, I know you're big on music.
• 41:08
  SPEAKER_04: What's on the headphones?
• 41:11
  SPEAKER_03: What's on the headphones?
• 41:13
  SPEAKER_03: I one of the rooms in my identity house is that I'm a raver, so you got that one right.
• 41:21
  SPEAKER_03: I love trans music and techno.
• 41:25
  SPEAKER_03: I love Eurodance.
• 41:27
  SPEAKER_03: I it's these are genres of music that I've listened to since I was in high school.
• 41:33
  SPEAKER_03: I don't think I could name like one specific song that's in my headphones at a given time, but anything in sort of the trance, techno, Eurodance lane, I'm probably listening to it for sure.
• 41:48
  SPEAKER_04: For those listening, what about some artists?
• 41:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 41:52
  SPEAKER_03: For those listening, artists that I'm currently on, Marlon Hofstad is DJ Daddy Trance, he's awesome.
• 42:02
  SPEAKER_03: Kiki, DJ Jiggla.
• 42:05
  SPEAKER_03: Those are just to name a few that have been really high on my radar.
• 42:10
  SPEAKER_03: You have the classic uh trance artists out there as well.
• 42:14
  SPEAKER_03: But yeah, I would say that those would be my current top three.
• 42:18
  SPEAKER_03: I'll say, let's say that.
• 42:20
  SPEAKER_04: Okay.
• 42:21
  SPEAKER_04: So people can look up.
• 42:22
  SPEAKER_04: I gotta look some of those up myself now.
• 42:24
  SPEAKER_03: Okay.
• 42:27
  SPEAKER_04: You mentioned running on feel a few times, right?
• 42:29
  SPEAKER_04: Like, how's your running now?
• 42:30
  SPEAKER_04: Do you run on feel?
• 42:31
  SPEAKER_04: I I know you use a watch, but at some point I know you use and you mentioned it here a Timex GPS, like old school, like no, no heart rate, no lap, no GPS.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: Yep.
• 42:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like, what's that like now?
• 42:47
  SPEAKER_03: Fellow millennial track runners will understand.
• 42:51
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, we didn't have smart watches back in the day.
• 42:54
  SPEAKER_03: And so up until 2018, I I had a Timex.
• 43:00
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 43:01
  SPEAKER_03: I I didn't have the GPS function, I didn't have the heart rate function, I didn't have any of that.
• 43:06
  SPEAKER_03: My first marathon, I actually wrote my splits on my arm.
• 43:11
  SPEAKER_03: So I was trying to run 319, and so I had every 5k where I was supposed to be, or I was trying to run 320 was my goal, sorry.
• 43:19
  SPEAKER_03: And so every 5k I had what I was supposed to be at if I was gonna reach that goal, and then every 5k, I just look at the clock, I look at my arm, speed up, slow down, and I it worked.
• 43:29
  SPEAKER_03: I ran 319.
• 43:31
  SPEAKER_03: And so now that we have the fancy technology, I do have a Koros watch, I do wear an arm band, heart rate monitor, but I try not to really look at it while I'm running.
• 43:46
  SPEAKER_03: I prefer to use that as kind of FYI data after the fact.
• 43:52
  SPEAKER_03: However, sometimes you know, if I'm doing a workout or trying to run at threshold, for example, I I will look at the pace screen to make sure that the first set's not way too fast or something like that.
• 44:08
  SPEAKER_03: But something I recently realized was that if I could see the heart rate screen on my watch during a hard workout, sometimes it would psych me out because I'd see my heart rate, you know, going kind of high, and then I'll think, oh my gosh, this is too hard.
• 44:26
  SPEAKER_03: But actually, it's not too hard.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: We're fine.
• 44:28
  SPEAKER_03: So I really just try not to think about the data too much and use it as a tool afterwards.
• 44:34
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, I can relate so hard to that right now.
• 44:36
  SPEAKER_04: Um, I'm not running big mileage right now, but like a lot of threshold and speed work, even faster than last time we spoke.
• 44:43
  SPEAKER_04: And I feel like I was looking at my watch, and the minute it hits 170, I'm like, oh no, wait, let me back up.
• 44:48
  SPEAKER_04: But then if I like don't look at the watch and just think, I feel fine and probably could go faster.
• 44:54
  SPEAKER_04: And like I'm cracking myself based off the watch, and I hate that feeling like, hey, there's potential here, and I'm just not maximizing it because I'm looking at the watch.
• 45:02
  SPEAKER_04: I know everyone's different.
• 45:03
  SPEAKER_04: Some people are very analytical, they like looking at the data, but I think there's something to be said about learning the feel at least, right?
• 45:09
  SPEAKER_04: Use both, but learning the feel.
• 45:11
  SPEAKER_04: And that's what I love about your running, you know.
• 45:13
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, like you're very off feel, you are no Strava for a long time.
• 45:19
  SPEAKER_03: I didn't have Strava for a very long time, that's true.
• 45:22
  SPEAKER_04: PS watch.
• 45:23
  SPEAKER_04: Like, so do you go to the track and you just go off, hey, I know I need to hit this time, this time, and you just forget about like pacing, and or do you do a mix of both?
• 45:33
  SPEAKER_03: It's definitely a mix of both.
• 45:35
  SPEAKER_03: I would say I think if I am at a track workout with other people and I know there's sort of a goal pace that I'm trying to hit, I will find people in the group that have a similar goal.
• 45:51
  SPEAKER_03: And I will st I will start and stop my watch so that I have the data, but I will really actively try not to look at it until afterwards.
• 46:00
  SPEAKER_03: Back in the old days when I was running track in college, um we would have to write down our times in a notebook after, and we would get those times from our coach yelling them out at us from a stopwatch.
• 46:16
  SPEAKER_03: So I, you just learn, you're like, okay, so my 400 splits have to be X to be running whatever pace.
• 46:24
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah.
• 46:25
  SPEAKER_03: My 800 splits have to be Y to be running whatever pace.
• 46:28
  SPEAKER_03: And then I'd have to remember like 10 sets or whatever, and then write those down.
• 46:32
  SPEAKER_03: And so I kind of, it's one of those things that doesn't go away.
• 46:37
  SPEAKER_03: Um, I try to, you know, bring that same approach within reason to the harder efforts, and then yeah, for the easier efforts or the zone two running, um, I try to go off vibes.
• 46:51
  SPEAKER_03: Like, can I hold a conversation?
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_02: Yes.
• 46:54
  SPEAKER_03: Do I does this feel easy?
• 46:57
  SPEAKER_03: Okay, then it's probably recovery wrap.
• 46:59
  SPEAKER_04: Vibes.
• 47:00
  SPEAKER_04: Love running off vibes.
• 47:01
  SPEAKER_04: That's kind of that you you shared your goal for your race right now, which was like the mantras and talk.
• 47:07
  SPEAKER_04: Mine is vibes right now.
• 47:10
  SPEAKER_02: Just I love it.
• 47:12
  SPEAKER_02: Yes, that is awesome.
• 47:14
  SPEAKER_04: What's your like uh EC pace and like fun runs like?
• 47:18
  SPEAKER_04: You know, uh, it sounds like you just go off vibes, but like, do you just whatever pace?
• 47:22
  SPEAKER_04: I don't care, and then you just go all out on fast days.
• 47:25
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, I have I have this Monday run scheduled with one of my best friends.
• 47:31
  SPEAKER_03: We meet up every morning, every Monday at 6:30 in the morning before work, and we usually we run a lap around Lake Union, and we catch up on the week.
• 47:42
  SPEAKER_03: And whatever pace we're running is the pace we ran, and I don't care.
• 47:47
  SPEAKER_03: And I of course you get the the miles in my leg in your legs, but for me, I get a fun hour of 45, however long, hang out with my friend, we get to catch up, and then I get to start my day.
• 48:03
  SPEAKER_03: It always puts me in a good mood heading into my work day, and it's just it doesn't matter, um, which is something I really had to learn.
• 48:10
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I used to definitely run my recovery runs too fast because I, you know, had this ego around like, well, I could never be whatever pace.
• 48:22
  SPEAKER_03: It's just it doesn't matter.
• 48:24
  SPEAKER_04: Like, this is supposed to be fun, especially that Lake Union loop you just mentioned.
• 48:28
  SPEAKER_04: For those not listen uh who haven't been in Seattle, Lake Union Loop, sunrise.
• 48:33
  SPEAKER_04: I'm telling you, people, you're gonna see planes, you're gonna see a beautiful lake, you're gonna see some nice houses.
• 48:39
  SPEAKER_04: That is a beautiful loop, nice six miles.
• 48:42
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you can run it two, three times, you're gonna catch some hills, you're gonna get some flats.
• 48:46
  SPEAKER_04: You probably won't get hit by a car.
• 48:48
  SPEAKER_04: Unlike most cities, what I mean is there's some trail parts that keep you away from cars, which is really cool.
• 48:53
  SPEAKER_03: You might see a yacht, but you might see a yacht.
• 48:58
  SPEAKER_04: Um that's a beautiful loop, definitely to be running out vibes.
• 49:01
  SPEAKER_04: I do miss that loop.
• 49:03
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah, it's pretty awesome.
• 49:04
  SPEAKER_04: What do I find most difficult nowadays with with running?
• 49:06
  SPEAKER_04: You know, you're having a lot of success, you know, you're eating, you're carbing up, you're probably gonna carve some more for this next uh daunting with PRL.
• 49:13
  SPEAKER_04: Um, what do you find challenging nowadays?
• 49:18
  SPEAKER_03: That's a really good question.
• 49:20
  SPEAKER_03: I think there's a few things.
• 49:21
  SPEAKER_03: I think one of the things I find challenging that I mentioned a little bit earlier is this sort of fear of the new goals I'm I've put on the table.
• 49:34
  unknown: Yeah.
• 49:34
  SPEAKER_03: You know, this fear of going faster.
• 49:38
  SPEAKER_03: It's I don't know.
• 49:40
  SPEAKER_03: I think I have sort of this block in my mind that like, well, I've this is just as fast as we go, the end.
• 49:48
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I on the days where I have a hard workout, it's almost like I have to just like wake up and go face my fears for the day.
• 49:59
  SPEAKER_03: My fear of running six-minute mile pace as a threshold pace now, or or whatever it is, and so I think that's been challenging.
• 50:09
  SPEAKER_03: Um I've been trying to sort of approach that challenge by remembering like how cool is it that I get to pick what I what challenges me today.
• 50:24
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:25
  SPEAKER_03: And so yeah, I think that's that's definitely one thing.
• 50:29
  SPEAKER_03: And then I think the other thing that continues to be a challenge is balancing everything, if that makes sense.
• 50:38
  SPEAKER_03: You know, marathon training in and of itself is not particularly a balanced pursuit.
• 50:45
  SPEAKER_03: No, it's not, you know, like it's kind of extreme.
• 50:49
  SPEAKER_02: Yeah.
• 50:50
  SPEAKER_03: And so in order to do this sport, I have to make some decisions about the other things in my life and be very intentional about how I use my time to make sure I don't get hurt, to make sure that this is still enjoyable for me, but also enjoyable for everybody around me.
• 51:09
  SPEAKER_03: I don't want my hobby at this point in my life, this is a hobby, yeah, to overtake my relationships or harm my husband or my friends or the people and or my family because I'm so into it.
• 51:24
  SPEAKER_03: And so, really, just trying to approach that.
• 51:29
  SPEAKER_03: And I think one of the things another mantra that I have is that you can do anything, but not all at once.
• 51:39
  SPEAKER_03: Yes, and what I mean by that is I can marathon train, I can be a lawyer, I can be a raver, I can be a partner, I can be a friend, I can be all those things, but sometimes I have to focus on one of those things a little bit more than others.
• 51:58
  SPEAKER_03: And when I decide to marathon train for 12 weeks, I'm choosing to kind of zero in on that one thing.
• 52:08
  SPEAKER_03: Or going back to the house analogy, to spend a bunch of more time in the marathon room for 12 weeks.
• 52:14
  SPEAKER_03: And that means I probably won't spend time in the rave room for those 12 weeks.
• 52:20
  SPEAKER_03: And that's an intentional choice.
• 52:23
  SPEAKER_03: And I but it is, I guess I think it's still a challenge because I you have to sort of be intentional and make some decisions, but I'm pretty stoked, I think, with how those decisions are going these days.
• 52:37
  SPEAKER_04: No, for sure.
• 52:38
  SPEAKER_04: I I think everything you mentioned is kind of how you do it.
• 52:40
  SPEAKER_04: Like take with a grain of salt for those listening, but like from a thought perspective, you kind of need all those rooms even to have success in the marathon room.
• 52:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, you know, I think even pro se it is not an easy thing to like, hey, I'm gonna lock in for 12 weeks and you're not gonna see me for two hours every day for like almost every day.
• 52:59
  SPEAKER_04: And on top of that, I'm gonna be exhausted after, and I need like four pounds of food every meal.
• 53:04
  SPEAKER_04: And like, yeah, I can't go to that party, and I'm not going to hang out for this like block of period and like 12 weeks that's a lot.
• 53:10
  SPEAKER_04: But then when you take off, uh a lot of people try to go back into the marathon room, and it's like you kind of gotta enjoy the other stuff so that you can recuperate and have fun and enjoy, and like, you know, not just recover physically, but like mentally and and just have fun, you know, at the end of the day, like it definitely sucks when you're running a fast race and you feel like crap and you just want to like get it over with, versus like 100 happy.
• 53:35
  SPEAKER_03: I always take time off after a marathon.
• 53:40
  SPEAKER_03: After Victoria, I took two weeks almost completely off.
• 53:46
  SPEAKER_03: And the only reason I say almost is because I did one 5k fun run during that two-week period off.
• 53:54
  SPEAKER_03: I was on a trip in Amsterdam, and there was an opportunity to jump into this fun 5k, and so it was a group run, and you know, I jogged there and I jogged back.
• 54:07
  SPEAKER_03: So I think in total for the day, I did about maybe six miles.
• 54:11
  SPEAKER_03: Other than that, I was off.
• 54:13
  SPEAKER_03: The reason I was in Amsterdam was I was there for a work trip that also had some fun components involved.
• 54:20
  SPEAKER_03: I was at a music business conference, and so I also attended some music events around that.
• 54:26
  SPEAKER_03: Part of why I choose to do the 12-week blocks instead of anything longer is because it gives me the ability to like be really excited about marathon training because it's just like yes, three months is a long time, but it's just three months.
• 54:47
  SPEAKER_04: Yeah, four is like daunting.
• 54:50
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know, I would agree though.
• 54:51
  SPEAKER_03: Four just does feel like so much longer to me, and I you know, I try to put something fun on the calendar for after the raise, that kind of thing.
• 55:00
  SPEAKER_03: So, so yeah.
• 55:01
  SPEAKER_04: No, I agree with you.
• 55:02
  SPEAKER_04: Like, I'm I'm not yet at the point where like my fitness can justify 12 weeks and less for a half, but that is a goal for me sometime this year because I'm focusing on speed, but like four 16 weeks is just like a lot of freaking time, it's longer than the business quarter.
• 55:15
  SPEAKER_04: Um and if you're running year round, like do you really need another 16 weeks of punishing yourself at like these exuberant prices um and just going into a race fatigue?
• 55:25
  SPEAKER_04: That's something I've been battling with.
• 55:26
  SPEAKER_04: So I'm gonna steal that even though I'm recording and podcasting here.
• 55:29
  SPEAKER_04: That's a tip I'm gonna take for me here.
• 55:32
  SPEAKER_03: Please take it.
• 55:33
  SPEAKER_03: I I borrow mantras from everywhere I hear them.
• 55:37
  SPEAKER_03: I write them down on little sticky notes or in my notes app in my phone.
• 55:41
  SPEAKER_03: I I don't know, they're free.
• 55:44
  SPEAKER_03: Take them.
• 55:47
  SPEAKER_04: What would you say to someone who uh is trying to get back similar to you, their joy of running and is afraid to take a pause break from running?
• 55:59
  SPEAKER_03: I think it's really important to find out why you run.
• 56:17
  SPEAKER_03: Asking myself like one of the questions I had to ask myself when I was recovering from my eating disorder was why am I running today?
• 56:27
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, and if the answer was I feel guilty because I ate X, I was not allowed to run that day.
• 56:36
  SPEAKER_03: Because that's not for me, as someone recovering from an eating disorder, that's not a valid reason to go for a run.
• 56:44
  SPEAKER_03: Meanwhile, when if I could honestly ask myself the question, like why am I running today?
• 56:51
  SPEAKER_03: Well, I I'm studying for the bar exam and I need a mental break, which is a true reason why I was running that summer, I would go for a run because that's that's reasonable.
• 57:04
  SPEAKER_03: You know, I studying for the bar exam is really hard.
• 57:07
  SPEAKER_03: And so I would study for like four or five hours in the morning, take a midday jog break for an hour, and then I'd go back to studying.
• 57:17
  SPEAKER_03: And that was healthy, and that you know, really helped me evolve my relationship with this sport.
• 57:24
  SPEAKER_03: And I think I think if run if if I was feeling burnt out, or if you're feeling burnt out in running, or you're trying to re find the joy, I think you have to figure out why you're doing it in the first place.
• 57:40
  SPEAKER_03: And once I kind of got the answers to that question, and that answer evolved, it's not the same answer every day, but once I kind of figured out that answer, I was able to lean into the one of the core answers is I really, really love this.
• 57:56
  SPEAKER_03: So fun.
• 57:58
  SPEAKER_03: So, so yeah, that's that's how I would approach it.
• 58:02
  SPEAKER_04: Where are you finding the most?
• 58:03
  SPEAKER_04: I know you got this race coming up, but like, where are you finding the most joy of running now, and where do you want it to go here going forward?
• 58:11
  SPEAKER_03: There's a few areas.
• 58:13
  SPEAKER_03: I don't know that I could identify just one, but I get so much joy out of running with the group on Saturdays.
• 58:21
  SPEAKER_03: Yesterday, for example, it was pouring rain.
• 58:26
  SPEAKER_03: Like, you know how it can get in Seattle, just so wet.
• 58:30
  SPEAKER_03: And we had this great group of runners out there.
• 58:35
  SPEAKER_03: We had to run through the mud, it was slippery, we were just looking out for each other, trying to, you know, don't let's okay.
• 58:41
  SPEAKER_03: New goal for this run is to not fall, or whatever silly things we were saying were each other.
• 58:46
  SPEAKER_03: It was just so fun.
• 58:47
  SPEAKER_03: So I'm getting a lot of joy out of those experiences, and I think also I think joy and the curiosity of what can I get out of this now?
• 59:01
  SPEAKER_03: Yeah, where can I take this now?
• 59:06
  SPEAKER_03: Kind of identifying that I feel safe in setting these goals, which I mentioned earlier, has made me feel like really excited to just go for it.
• 59:18
  SPEAKER_03: And you know, I've set a time goal for my next marathon.
• 59:23
  SPEAKER_03: I might not hit it, but I'm sure as heck gonna try, and that is super fun and exciting, and we're just gonna see what happens.
• 59:33
  SPEAKER_04: Okay, everyone, find the joy and you're running.
• 59:38
  SPEAKER_04: Take a break if you need to.
• 59:40
  SPEAKER_04: Stay lofty and ambitious, but have fun and find that joy and running.
• 59:44
  SPEAKER_04: Uh, this has been the People Run podcast.
• 59:47
  SPEAKER_04: Thank you, Bianca, for being on.
• 59:49
  SPEAKER_04: Um, until next time, guys, tune in.