Latest / A Level Playing Field / Fiona Brown: From Celtic prodigy to performance leader: A Journey of Resilience I A Level Playing Field I Episode 32

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Fiona Brown: From Celtic prodigy to performance leader: A Journey of Resilience I A Level Playing Field I Episode 32 · A Level Playing Field

• 0:00
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• 1:24
  SPEAKER_01: Welcome to a level playing field.
• 1:26
  SPEAKER_01: I'm Cheryl Smith.
• 1:27
  SPEAKER_01: Alongside me as ever is Alison McConnell.
• 1:30
  SPEAKER_01: And we're also joined today by a very special guest, Fiona Brown, former Scotland International and now Celtic's head of fitness and conditioning.
• 1:38
  SPEAKER_01: Fiona, thank you so much for giving us some of your time today just to have a wee chat and be a guest on the on the podcast.
• 1:44
  SPEAKER_01: You know, you've had a really interesting career when you look back, lots of lots of highs and some lows in there as well.
• 1:50
  SPEAKER_01: But if I take you back to when it all first started for you sort of professionally when you signed for Celtic when you were 14, I think, what was that period like for you when you came in at that age and you know trying to make it as a as a footballer and also what what the women's side of the club was like at that time?
• 2:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean very very different to how it is now.
• 2:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um it was Paul Brennley, PB, that um Who's back me in, yeah, so full circle.
• 2:15
  SPEAKER_00: But um yeah, no, he signed me from Steny, Stennishmir, when I think 13, 14, maybe, um, to the under 15s academy.
• 2:26
  SPEAKER_00: So that was like for me at that time was huge anyway because one, I was a big Celtic fan, but I had come from a small village that didn't even have a girls' team, so for to go to Stennis Muir was already like a wee bit, a wee bit of a journey.
• 2:41
  SPEAKER_00: Um and even just to have training kit and stuff like that at that point was like a big thing to me.
• 2:47
  SPEAKER_00: I didn't I didn't know like what the what was possible in terms of women's football.
• 2:52
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think any of us did at that time, so it was such a big jump to come to Celtic anyway.
• 2:57
  SPEAKER_00: And I remember even like a child and down at Barrafield and even walking into the trial and seeing all the strips hanging up and that, like it was just such a big thing, like I just was blown away by it and was desperate, like absolutely desperate to to be involved.
• 3:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then that year at under 15 was it was Paul Brownlee and Tina Ferguson and now like I don't think I took it in at the time that they were voluntary, but like the work and the effort and the commitment that they gave to us.
• 3:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, our parents like had to commit hugely to to take us to train and to bring us back, and for mom and dad it was a massive amount of travel.
• 3:36
  SPEAKER_00: Um and but for Paul and Tina and like what they gave us was unbelievable, and I think now seeing Paul back and instilling those like same principles into the academy is amazing.
• 3:48
  SPEAKER_00: Um it's still the way that the way that I train or how I live my life is still massively based around what I was taught back then.
• 3:56
  SPEAKER_00: And I think ask anyone from that team the same the same thing.
• 3:59
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously Chloe Arthur's back now, we played in that team together, and we think exactly the same in that respect because we were just brought up in that way with Paul and Tina.
• 4:08
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, unbelievable team that year.
• 4:10
  SPEAKER_00: I think we were basically the Scotland under 15 team, but at a club level, won every game, won everything we could win.
• 4:18
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then we played the cup final at Tody Glenn.
• 4:23
  SPEAKER_00: Um and I think I scored I don't know if it was the winner or what, but I scored a an important goal in the game.
• 4:30
  SPEAKER_00: We won the cup.
• 4:31
  SPEAKER_00: And we were in the change room, like just jumping a bit, like 14-year-old kids like just spinning each other water and that.
• 4:37
  SPEAKER_00: And uh PB came in and was PB, who's the only person other than Clearthur to call me Bruni, by the way, and he's trying to bring it back.
• 4:45
  SPEAKER_00: But he came on the change room and just was like, Bruni, come here.
• 4:50
  SPEAKER_00: So everyone's obviously you can imagine and it was Robert Doherty and Brian Delaney who were the managers at the first team at that point.
• 4:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they just basically said to said to me there, and then like we want you at the first team, so we're gonna contact your mum.
• 5:06
  SPEAKER_00: Like that's how it worked.
• 5:07
  SPEAKER_00: So gonna contact your mum, dad, um, just so you know, but we want you at the first team for the next next season.
• 5:13
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously it's 15, like it's a kid.
• 5:16
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it was pretty mental.
• 5:18
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that would really happen now in that way, but um, yeah, it's wild.
• 5:24
  SPEAKER_02: That's what it's incredible how the games change so quickly, and you would probably have been at the forefront of of some of those changes and just seeing the path establishing towards a professional career.
• 5:35
  SPEAKER_02: Had you envisaged was that a possibility in your head at that age, thinking, or were you thinking, oh, it's just going to be higher as university, or were you thinking, no, there's a possibility here to go and eke out a career professionally?
• 5:48
  SPEAKER_00: I always wanted it.
• 5:49
  SPEAKER_00: Like I always uh like played loads of sports when I was younger and um I remember Mum talks about this all the time, but um I remember vividly sitting I was having dinner with my mum, we were out for dinner, just me and her, and then I remember just saying to her outright, I think I was about twelve and just said, I want to do football, like that's what I want to try and do.
• 6:12
  SPEAKER_00: And she basically says now, like I was so sure about it, I was just so I just kinda hit her with it, like I'm gonna do that.
• 6:19
  SPEAKER_00: And I think my mum dad know better than to try and stop me when I want to do something now.
• 6:23
  SPEAKER_00: So I think she was like, Well, we'll support you and we'll give you give you what you need to need to to go and try it, but you're gonna have a backup and you're gonna stick in at school and you're gonna have something to fall back on because they didn't know, like none none of us knew.
• 6:37
  SPEAKER_00: So I had the dream, but I didn't know if it was real like a reality.
• 6:41
  SPEAKER_02: Even going back to that time, it wasn't I mean we might have criticisms now about the visibility of the game.
• 6:46
  SPEAKER_00: That was it, like I wanted to do it, but I didn't really know what I wanted like do you know what I mean?
• 6:50
  SPEAKER_00: Like what it looked like.
• 6:51
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly that.
• 6:52
  SPEAKER_02: So um And suppose for your parents, like now looking at that as a parent, you're thinking, well, what is the reality of it and what is the pathway and what are the opportunities and possibilities and what does it actually mean?
• 7:05
  SPEAKER_00: No, exactly.
• 7:06
  SPEAKER_00: So 100%, but I think once I started like once I started being in Celtec and seeing like little snippets, like for me it was professional at that time, like because I didn't know anything different and it was a step up, everything was a step up, the next level, next level, and I think because of that it was um it became more like okay, like this is maybe possible.
• 7:30
  SPEAKER_00: Um but again I didn't know how it would look, I didn't know what it was, but I just knew that's what that's what I wanted to do and I was happiest on a football pitch.
• 7:40
  SPEAKER_00: Who would have been first team level at Celtic at that point?
• 7:43
  SPEAKER_00: I mean going into that team at 15, Mandy Barnes, Stacey Cook, Lauren McMillan, Joe Love, Gemma Faye, um Megan Sneddon, uh trying to think who else, like um Karen Henglis, Bridey, Christian McBride.
• 8:01
  SPEAKER_00: It was it was daunting.
• 8:04
  SPEAKER_00: I had Maddie Fulton and I had Rebecca Story and Megan Cunningham moved up at the same time as me, so we were the babies.
• 8:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um obviously Craigie was there as well.
• 8:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um so we were the babies, and to be honest, they just they put an arm around us and they looked after us.
• 8:18
  SPEAKER_00: Karen Karen McNally, she was great for me as well.
• 8:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um and they really wanted us to do well.
• 8:25
  SPEAKER_00: That was the biggest thing.
• 8:26
  SPEAKER_00: They were desperate for us to succeed and desperate for us to to go and and do well and they knew that they could help us.
• 8:33
  SPEAKER_00: Um some laugh, I mean Granny, sorry, how can I forget granny?
• 8:38
  SPEAKER_00: Eyes were opened, Julie Ferguson, all them, like eyes were opened, you had to grow up fast, I would say that.
• 8:44
  SPEAKER_00: But it was it was hilarious and uh like daunting, of course, but it was amazing.
• 8:52
  SPEAKER_01: Did that go into that team like when you were so young and there was so much experience?
• 8:55
  SPEAKER_01: Did that actually kind of shape not just how you went on to be as a player, but how you are now?
• 9:01
  SPEAKER_01: You've you've kind of come full circle and you're back in and there's a lot of young players in this Celtic team.
• 9:06
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, a hundred percent.
• 9:07
  SPEAKER_00: I think like for me, everything that happens everything that happened in my career, both good and bad, and I had some tough, tough moments for sure.
• 9:17
  SPEAKER_00: I think those moments probably are the ones that formed me the most.
• 9:21
  SPEAKER_00: Um but the good moments as well, like that, that was definitely an eye-opener, and it was definitely like I was very naive.
• 9:29
  SPEAKER_00: I was a young kid that had seen no wrong, had just grown up and done blame, like lily-nilly, absolutely go out not really bothered about locking doors, all this stuff.
• 9:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like just I just didn't know anything else.
• 9:41
  SPEAKER_00: I was just a happy go-lucky kid, and I think you then are suddenly tossed into an environment where people actually have real adult problems as well as just being adults that you weren't around that often.
• 9:53
  SPEAKER_00: Um so it definitely like was daunting, but I I think what over the overriding thing was that I wanted to do well, and I I was so happy to be there.
• 10:02
  SPEAKER_00: Like I was so I felt so grateful to have been the one that was picked.
• 10:06
  SPEAKER_00: Our 15th team was stacked with talent, it was unbelievable, and they picked me.
• 10:12
  SPEAKER_00: So, like for me that was such a thing of like I have something to live up to here.
• 10:15
  SPEAKER_00: Like, don't make them don't let them regret that they chose me.
• 10:18
  SPEAKER_00: So anything that happened or any situation that was like tough or a bit daunting was always like I could it was always overridden by that feeling of like, but I'm here, so get on with kind of thing.
• 10:31
  SPEAKER_00: Um but yeah, absolutely.
• 10:32
  SPEAKER_00: I see the young players coming through now, and I think you very much realize you're old.
• 10:40
  SPEAKER_00: Um we feel that often.
• 10:44
  SPEAKER_00: Some of the stuff that gets I get asked on a daily basis, did that happen in your generation?
• 10:49
  SPEAKER_00: It's honestly it's humbling, the humbling experience tell you.
• 10:52
  SPEAKER_00: But no, I think like you see young players coming through and you see yourself in a lot of them, and I think for me there's a couple of players that I just I see them worrying about stuff that I would have worried about, I see them getting wound up about stuff that I would have got wound up about, and now looking at it from from where I am and all the stuff I've experienced, it's it's nice in a way to be like, oh like I I can help you or I can give you a wee bit of advice, but I know that they probably won't listen to it right now, but it's really nice to no like sit there and know like you're gonna be fine, like it's hard not sometimes you want to g tell them that, but when you can see like see this problem that's so big right now, it's not gonna be it's it's gonna be absolutely nothing when you look back.
• 11:35
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah, absolutely.
• 11:37
  SPEAKER_00: I think all these kind of things, it's experience just helps you in every way to to give back in whatever you're doing next.
• 11:45
  SPEAKER_02: You've obviously come into your role, maybe not by choice necessarily, like your career curtailed for anyone who's listening and doesn't know, but a fourth ACL injury, you just come back from Scandinavia, gone to Glasgow City and and got the injury, and you know, just how tough was that?
• 12:02
  SPEAKER_02: I remember we had spoken to you just after you had come back to to go to Glasgow City, um, and you were desperate to to get another couple of seasons under your belt, and just how how difficult was it the circumstances around that and the fact that it happened with such regularity for I mean there are not a lot of players that that go through that four times.
• 12:23
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean no, listen, it's it's been tough, I think.
• 12:30
  SPEAKER_00: I I think for a long time I was really embarrassed by the fact that I kept getting injured.
• 12:36
  SPEAKER_00: I think not not the not the last one, but just in terms like when I moved to Sweden I got to start again and I got to be this player that just was a footballer because by that point I was still young, about 20, 21, and I'd already had two ACLs.
• 12:52
  SPEAKER_00: So in Scotland I was just labelled.
• 12:54
  SPEAKER_00: I was labelled there wouldn't be one thing written about me without it mentioning like already had two ACLs or already come back from two ACLs, and for me like it really angered me.
• 13:04
  SPEAKER_00: I remember having it out with Alan Campbell because I was like, why would you I know Alan really will?
• 13:08
  SPEAKER_00: Right, I and I really like Alan B.
• 13:10
  SPEAKER_00: I respect him so much, and we actually like got on great, but I remember saying to him, like, I really really hated that you always mentioned the fact that I'd been injured, but actually now being older and taken in and having seen it for what it is, like he was doing that out of respect.
• 13:26
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted to build my journey based on the fact that I was playing football and I was achieving and I was doing things, and I didn't want it all always to be curtailed by like, but what could she have done or or whatever?
• 13:37
  SPEAKER_00: But I think for me I'm now at a place where I can look at it and be really proud of what I did regardless of the injuries I had, and I think that took a long time, um and it was hard, like mentally, really tough.
• 13:51
  SPEAKER_00: I don't really have an an answer of like how I did it or whatever.
• 13:56
  SPEAKER_00: The one thing I have consistently said is that I was really, really fortunate to be surrounded by really good people.
• 14:03
  SPEAKER_00: I mean my family are unbelievable, and I don't have really any words to describe how much they've been just solid for me always.
• 14:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um but when I was out in Sweden, my family out there became my my friends and and they were amazing.
• 14:19
  SPEAKER_00: They they generally didn't let me give up.
• 14:21
  SPEAKER_00: I was going to walk away um in 2021 when I got injured.
• 14:24
  SPEAKER_00: It was done.
• 14:25
  SPEAKER_00: And I just couldn't I'd come back from the big microfreature.
• 14:27
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously, I had four ACLs, I had a really bad cartilage injury, which ultimately was actually the the worst injury of all and should have ended my career in 2019, but managed to come back from that and then did the ACL quite shortly after.
• 14:40
  SPEAKER_00: And at that point I was like, no way.
• 14:42
  SPEAKER_00: And they just they just knew me too well to to know how to manipulate me into believing that I could do it, and they knew if they got me started on the rehab that I would complete it.
• 14:51
  SPEAKER_00: So I owe them the last couple of years of my career because I wouldn't have done that by myself.
• 14:57
  SPEAKER_00: Um and then coming home.
• 15:00
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, it was a hard, it was it was a hard hit.
• 15:03
  SPEAKER_00: I think I said that in my my interview at the time.
• 15:06
  SPEAKER_00: When I got injury against Rangers, I say it on the pitch, you can see it on the sky in sports that I was like it's done, it's over.
• 15:13
  SPEAKER_02: I was working that day and I actually remember like I actually remember the moment and I remember seeing your mum go down.
• 15:19
  SPEAKER_02: Your mum was in the stand, and I remember watching her going down and I just felt so gutted for you.
• 15:25
  SPEAKER_02: If I and for your mum, because you're thinking, my god, like to go and have to pick you up, you know.
• 15:32
  SPEAKER_00: It's just and that's that's the thing.
• 15:34
  SPEAKER_00: I think it's hard.
• 15:35
  SPEAKER_00: I put my family through a lot, I put put the people in there through a lot by continuing to play, and um was very aware of that at the end.
• 15:43
  SPEAKER_00: Um and that probably was the thing that was hardest for me because I'm not a person that does stuff selfishly, I'm not that kind of person, but it was probably a wee bit selfish to to do it, but yeah, it was hard.
• 15:56
  SPEAKER_00: I knew I think in that moment I was just in shock because I knew ultimately that was my career done.
• 16:02
  SPEAKER_00: It wasn't everyone's called was like ACL injury, another one, what a shame, like whatever.
• 16:07
  SPEAKER_00: But obviously I knew ultimately it was done.
• 16:10
  SPEAKER_00: Um which was really I I I don't really know how you processed that at the time.
• 16:15
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think I I actually don't think probably still I've m massively processed it, and I I think that's okay, like just got to keep riding the wave with it, and it comes in in phases where you find it really difficult and other times you feel okay with it and quite content and yeah, I think I'm being very blessed with the people I've had around me.
• 16:35
  SPEAKER_00: I think for me I'm mentally quite resilient as a person and sometimes it's tunnel vision and just get on with it um and then deal with the consequences afterwards, which maybe isn't the healthiest, but it's the way that I found works for me.
• 16:50
  SPEAKER_00: Um But yeah, the obviously a really difficult, difficult time and I obviously had to do the rehab for a year before retiring.
• 16:59
  SPEAKER_00: Um that was probably the toughest part.
• 17:00
  SPEAKER_00: It it almost like gave me time to sort of like come to terms with what was happening, but it made it harder because I came back really well and I was training and I was feeling probably the best I'd felt in years.
• 17:11
  SPEAKER_00: So obviously you start questioning can I can I do it?
• 17:13
  SPEAKER_00: Can I come back?
• 17:14
  SPEAKER_00: Whatever, but ultimately I knew that it wasn't the right decision.
• 17:18
  SPEAKER_01: It's time for our player of the week, sponsored by Nutmeg Magazine, the home of brilliant football stories.
• 17:23
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• 17:27
  SPEAKER_02: This week's player of the week sponsored by Nutmeg goes to Bran midfielder Lauren Davidson for her part as Scotland secured a World Cup playoff final against Sweden at the end of next month and the start of December.
• 17:43
  SPEAKER_02: She scored one during that 5-2 aggregate win over the Czech Republic and was, as Ellen Cuspert suggested, unplayable.
• 17:52
  SPEAKER_01: That was our Nutmeg Magazine player of the week.
• 17:55
  SPEAKER_01: For more great football writing and to order the latest issue, visit nutmegmagazine.co.uk.
• 18:00
  SPEAKER_02: I think that must be really difficult as well when you're coming back and you've got that kind of grilling rehab and the long journey back, but you ought you know yourself that there's there's almost no end result, at least in previous times.
• 18:13
  SPEAKER_02: You're pushing for a goal.
• 18:15
  SPEAKER_02: You know, yeah, you're pushing for for something specific.
• 18:18
  SPEAKER_02: The temptation I would have suspected would be to slack off on it.
• 18:22
  SPEAKER_02: You know, the temptation would be to say I just I've not got the heart for how for those tough moments.
• 18:28
  SPEAKER_00: I don't think that's built into me, if I'm honest.
• 18:30
  SPEAKER_00: I think everything I do I want to do it 100% and I'm the same in my work now.
• 18:35
  SPEAKER_00: I want to give everything I've got, it's just I'm I'm all or nothing.
• 18:39
  SPEAKER_00: And I think the rehab I've I wanted to play minutes because I wanted in my head to have the control over like I'm walking away, which ultimately I I didn't have any control because I didn't want to do it.
• 18:51
  SPEAKER_00: But there was something about I'm not having the last time that I'm on a pitch being that I'm getting carried off or walking off or being injured.
• 19:01
  SPEAKER_00: I'm playing and I'm gonna complete those minutes.
• 19:04
  SPEAKER_00: It was ten minutes, like, but that meant something for me.
• 19:07
  SPEAKER_00: Uh so I had that as as a goal as well.
• 19:09
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think ultimately my reward is going to be that I actually have mobility for the rest of my life and can live the rest of my life.
• 19:16
  SPEAKER_00: It's hard to see that in the moment, but down the line, ten years' time, that will be because that ultimately that was the that was the reason.
• 19:24
  SPEAKER_00: I c I couldn't have kept going because if anything had happened again, it was unfixable.
• 19:28
  SPEAKER_00: So like I couldn't have lived an active life that I want to live.
• 19:32
  SPEAKER_00: And I would imagine that 10 minutes so would have been really emotional.
• 19:36
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think for I honestly came on the pitch and I could genuinely hear my whole family take a deep breath in from the other side of the sand.
• 19:45
  SPEAKER_00: But yeah, no, it was difficult for them.
• 19:47
  SPEAKER_00: And that was the time where I would say like I I was really, really conscious that they they really didn't want me to do it.
• 19:54
  SPEAKER_00: They didn't want me to to do it because they were so scared, and I get that.
• 19:57
  SPEAKER_00: And listen, of all people, my mum and dad have seen me fall to the ground and screaming on the floor or whatever it is too many times.
• 20:05
  SPEAKER_00: Um so I totally get it from them, and they've had the best time with my career as well.
• 20:11
  SPEAKER_00: They literally saw the world and loved every second, so it's an absolutely never a case of oh poor me or anything like that, but they did probably go through it when I was injured, and a lot of that time was uh abroad, I was away in a different country, and they're probably sitting at home worrying, not really knowing if I'm telling them everything, if I'm actually doing okay, all this stuff.
• 20:31
  SPEAKER_00: So um I was really, really happy that they were there and I wanted them to be there, and that's one thing I would say about my family.
• 20:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like, no matter if they didn't d didn't agree with me doing it or if they didn't want me to do it, if I needed them to stand up and be there, they would be there, and they were so that meant a lot.
• 20:49
  SPEAKER_00: And then my two nieces were there, so that was like the biggest the biggest thing for me.
• 20:53
  SPEAKER_00: I wanted them to have I wanted to Maisie had already seen me play, but she was probably quite young at that point.
• 20:58
  SPEAKER_00: But I wanted to say that they had both been there when I had played, because they'll grow up and Maisie remember she still talked about when you played football, but Hannah was just a baby, but she was there, so I'd like I like to know that they've been at a game that I've played in.
• 21:12
  SPEAKER_00: Um I would have loved to play longer and for them to really like understand it.
• 21:17
  SPEAKER_00: Um Hannah's got to be left foot in her, so she's my next target.
• 21:20
  SPEAKER_00: But uh yeah, so they were all there, and then obviously Lewis as well has been there through all of it.
• 21:27
  SPEAKER_00: He's been there through probably three or four injuries as well, so he's absolutely gone through it, and he probably dealt with a lot of the stuff that that mom and dad didn't need to because I was coming home to him every night, so um and he he found it hard as well, and he's openly said that.
• 21:41
  SPEAKER_00: So that all just comes from a place that they care.
• 21:44
  SPEAKER_00: But I was really happy that they they were there in that final one, and it was emotional, but I think everyone was just like like get this over and done with so that you can just be fine.
• 21:55
  SPEAKER_00: Um and the next chapter starts then almost.
• 21:58
  SPEAKER_00: Well, yeah, it's closure, isn't it?
• 22:00
  SPEAKER_00: So I literally finished the leak last year and we we went got a mean loose got a camper van and went to the he outer Hebrides and had no signal and just like that was it it was done and we just went there for five days and it was amazing and then had my holiday in in June and literally started at Celtic in July.
• 22:20
  SPEAKER_02: So I would imagine you would be fairly invaluable to have in a club for anyone who's gone through difficult injuries and in particular the ACL just seems like such a curse in the the women's game and seems really under research but it must be invaluable for other players to say here's a point of contact to someone who done it who's come through it and who really appreciates all the complexities of the injury not just the physical process but the mental process too.
• 22:50
  SPEAKER_00: I mean I hope so.
• 22:52
  SPEAKER_00: I think that's definitely where my interest probably came from in terms of going into this side of things.
• 22:59
  SPEAKER_00: I obviously did my my master's when I was out in Sweden.
• 23:03
  SPEAKER_00: During one of my injuries actually I started it and I think probably just it was drilled into me from young a young age, like regardless of how well you do in your career, you're gonna need to work afterwards and I'm gonna need to have something that's gonna end at some point which that's also a thing.
• 23:19
  SPEAKER_00: Like my I I don't ever want it to be like a pity party about about me because everyone's career ends.
• 23:26
  SPEAKER_00: It just pap into the minds a bit earlier so I still had an a massive span of time that was amazing and and I don't regret any of it and wouldn't change it so that's one definitely one thing that is important but I think in terms of this role it's I I think I'm obviously it's all new still I've been in it just over a year and every day you're still learning but I think it's the people I'm a people person like it's the same when I played football I cared about my teammates I wanted to do well for my teammates for my team and that's exactly how my role is now I want to do well for the staff and I want to do well for the girls.
• 24:02
  SPEAKER_00: I want the girls to get the best out of me and if that is using my experience in terms of being injured or just experience as a player then I that's a good thing and it's good to be able to give that back.
• 24:15
  SPEAKER_00: Um I think I'm still relatable enough for them and I think that helps.
• 24:20
  SPEAKER_00: It definitely helps me do my role better.
• 24:22
  SPEAKER_00: I think you you notice things I probably have the most contact time with the girls than any of the other staff because they're in the gym with me for activation then I'm on pitch you observe things on pitch you then are in the gym for the afternoon stuff so you're with them a lot um and you notice when people need a pick me up or you notice if somebody's struggling or you you can pick up on these wee things which I think is definitely something I I'm good at um but in terms of injuries yeah I I hope that I can help out in that way and I think mentally it's it's those things that probably no matter what they're feeling I've felt at one stage which again it's just being relatable for them.
• 25:02
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I think as much as injuries are never great it's definitely like there's got to be some positive out of it and if if this is it then I'll take it.
• 25:13
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say there that trip to the outer Hebrides with no signal sounds like your perfect holiday.
• 25:19
  SPEAKER_00: It does sound just when you're describing that I was like that sounds unreal unbelievable weather as well the week after it poured rain.
• 25:29
  SPEAKER_01: I was gonna say when you came back to Celtic Elena was still here was and did you have um a previous kind of connection with her from Sweden Rosengard was it?
• 25:37
  SPEAKER_00: Yeah so I owe Elena the job really like Elena fought for me and I also have no experience within the role I had experience in terms of playing and being injured and whatever and had done my my qualifications but on paper it's I had no experience so sure there was plenty of people that could have come into that role that would have been more qualified or anything like that but she really believed that I was the right person for for the group and the right person to to come in and and yeah we worked together in Rosengard so she was uh one of the assistants in Rosengaard when I was there and actually I was injured at one point um that she was involved and she was really she was class for me to be honest at that point she really went out her way to make sure I wasn't by myself and she obviously has exactly what I'm doing now for the girls she did for me and we've had similar paths in terms of that and but yeah and she she really fought for me so that was really where the whole thing came from.
• 26:38
  SPEAKER_00: She she actually reached out to me before she even knew I was retiring and so it was a long process to get over the line but um yeah I owe her over a lot.
• 26:48
  SPEAKER_01: She obviously would have been she's she's still a young coach 'cause s sadly because of the injury curtailed her playing career as well but she would have been really young uh back then and we know kind of the trajectory of her career now our C V is you know she's she came to Celtican won the league and Champions League group stages she's on the short list of the Ballon d'Or now won the Europa Cup with Haken but when you first met her back then what was your first impressions of her and did you did you see that in her the coach that she was going to go on gone and become um well the first time I met her was at a party because she had just left Eskelstone and I went to Eskelstone so she knew some of the girls and she was obviously a mentor but uh but um no lovely girl couldn't to be honest couldn't have been nicer when I was out there really looked out for me and then obviously when she was at Rosengaard she was with the youth team a lot and then she was in and out of with us as assistant but again I was injured at the time so I actually didn't get that much time with her as my coach um but yeah like I think what Alina has is such a massive degree of enthusiasm and an energy and yes she's young and I think you see that in some some ways at the side of the pit she gets so into it and whatever but she's very similar to me in that respect that she lives and breathes for the girls like she she wants it so much for them like everything that she's doing now is not for herself.
• 28:15
  SPEAKER_00: She's not a selfish person whatsoever it's always because she genuinely wants the best for for the team and I can completely understand that because I probably didn't understand that as much until I was on this side of things and you've become so invested in people and you want so much for for them as people and I think she she massively believed in that and what she did here obviously you can't rewrite history can you so she name will always be there in the history books and she's gone back back to Hekken and she's doing so well and she's home she's happy so yeah I'm delighted for her and I I hope that she can just continue on that path and Elena's the first person to say that she's always learning she made mistakes here she would do things differently in some capacity and she'll be the same over there.
• 29:04
  SPEAKER_00: She'll have things she'll be like nah I need to learn from that I need to not do that again but that's football like as a player that's what you do and that's me every day.
• 29:11
  SPEAKER_00: There's certain things I would never do next year for example certain things we did this year preseason that we hadn't done last year.
• 29:18
  SPEAKER_00: Like it's constantly evolving it's constantly learning and that's just life isn't it like you try and be a better person or grow as a person the only way you're gonna do that is is by learning from from your mistakes.
• 29:30
  SPEAKER_00: Did you text herone to get that Ballon d'Or nomination?
• 29:32
  SPEAKER_00: She actually yeah I did.
• 29:34
  SPEAKER_00: I said who do you pay for that but no um it's so weird she I she had actually phoned me three days before it she didn't know she actually had no pre-warning she found out when it went online on social media which I think's crazy but um she didn't know so she'd actually randomly we hadn't spoken or caught up in ages and she'd randomly phoned me like a couple of days before and so then I'd yeah just text her just saying congratulations and she was just shook to be honest I think I just well I can't really say what she said back but I think she was quite quite shocked but um yeah I'm I think what an experienced even go on so you have a plus one I know and I'll be there did you never fancy the coaching side of it?
• 30:21
  SPEAKER_00: No no no oh god no I see the coaches sit in there and stare at the computer and say that the tactics board and talk football all the time and I just think that's not for me nah I think like there's elements of it that I enjoy like a lot of my return to play work is individual coaching kind of and obviously it's based off movement and all the injury risk and stuff but there's a bit of that and I really enjoy that but no I I really I I enjoyed the tactics of football as a player.
• 30:53
  SPEAKER_00: I think I came through a Glasgow City team for example that you had to know football you had to be so switched on and if you didn't know it you had to learn it and obviously there naming the players that I played with at Celtic the city team that I went into when I signed there was ridiculous and so intelligent.
• 31:11
  SPEAKER_00: People that were so intelligent.
• 31:12
  SPEAKER_00: I played years in front of like Leanne Ross she was right back and I was right wing and I was just she was like FIFA just like moving me around like controlling me and she taught me the game in that respect and Eddie Wulecki was obviously there at the time and just we were doing things tactically at that time that nobody was doing.
• 31:29
  SPEAKER_00: Now it's probably quite normal but he was so ahead of the curve in that respect and that's why we were so successful but I loved that side of the game and I understood it I had a football head but I just think there's so much to coach in that I just don't think that's where I think I'm too emotionally invested that I would just find it so frustrating to be honest.
• 31:52
  SPEAKER_02: Just uh before we let you go Scotland have got uh World Cup qualifiers I mean you would have been part of the the very first team who qualified for a a World Cup what does it feel like to be on the outside looking in and how much are you rooting for a Scotland team to get back and be on that sort of stage again?
• 32:08
  SPEAKER_00: For sure I think like obviously looking in now it's since Scott playing for Scotland's the best thing in the world it's something I'm probably proudest of and really fortunate to have done so many times.
• 32:22
  SPEAKER_00: Going to the World Cup was amazing.
• 32:24
  SPEAKER_00: Like to to say that you're part of the team that only teams that have gone Euros and then World Cup is class I I feel really fortunate to have been a part of that and I think again like you want so much for for this group and you want so much for these girls coming through and so we've got girls that are trying to get into the squad or have managed to get into the squad and for them you want them to go and experience what we experience because like this I say this to the girls all the time and I don't want to sound like that older player that they're like here she goes again but it's genuinely the best job in the world and being a footballer is what you dream of as a kid and then you're living it and I think for me the injuries that I had probably brought me down to reality that I can 100% say in the last couple of years of my career like was so present and lived in the moment and enjoyed every second of it because I knew that it wasn't going to last forever and I knew what it felt like not to have it and I think in terms of that I want I would love for them to experience it.
• 33:26
  SPEAKER_00: Obviously a lot of the girls in the squad are still the girls that I was in the squad with our Ballandor nominee maybe maybe it's your influence on these no she's magic she's absolutely a magic but um I want it for them I think Caroline deserves Caroline and Erin they deserve to be at the highest level I think they deserve to be on the world stage and obviously you don't you don't want people to qualify just for individuals but above all I think those two I would love it for them.
• 33:52
  SPEAKER_00: I would absolutely love to see them back there and all these young young girls coming through obviously go away with the 23s and seeing a lot of them that were in the 23s last year and now in the A squad this year and just think you're right at the start of your journey and it's going to be so class.
• 34:07
  SPEAKER_00: So yeah I'd absolutely love to see them go and get a wee holiday out of it as a fan.
• 34:12
  SPEAKER_01: Is it difficult to actually explain that to young players what that's like when you go to a tournament like that and all eyes are on it and everything is just so elevated and the the level of the players that you're playing against are just it's the the best players in the world.
• 34:26
  SPEAKER_00: It's just all the things that go with it and and the the holiday holiday part as well I think like I've never experienced obviously like a major tournament as a fan I think that would be amazing to do I would much rather be on the pitch like and that's the thing you say it every day I I'm so jealous of them.
• 34:41
  SPEAKER_00: I'm so jealous I'm not bitter in any way but I say that to the girls all the time I'm so jealous of what you've got to come and I'm so jealous of how you're like every day even going out on the pitch like I'm constantly trying to join in and they're always like no like stop so yeah so like I think that's the best way that I can explain it to them because it is difficult to explain I think they need to want it and they need to and a lot of them do um but wanting something so much and then achieving it there's no other feeling like that and and doing it with people so we went to the World Cup with people that you'd grown up with I went to the World Cup with Chloe Arthur, Caroline Claire like we'd all come through Lee Lee Gibson like we'd all come through and the whole thing together and then you're there.
• 35:30
  SPEAKER_00: So like yeah it's really difficult to explain but I think that's that's the best way that I can like project that for the girls is just trying to make them aware of like where they are right now and what they're doing right now is what they were dreaming of a couple of years ago and and just enjoy it.
• 35:48
  SPEAKER_00: It's honestly the best life and the things you do and the people you meet that's for me the biggest thing you take away from it.
• 35:55
  SPEAKER_00: I've got people that'll be in my life forever because of football.
• 35:58
  SPEAKER_00: And obviously that's still the case now that you are still in involved in football and in this role and obviously wherever that takes you and you'll meet people along the way that'll be really special and that's yeah it's really it's a really nice part of the job I think.
• 36:16
  SPEAKER_01: So would you make it out to Brazil as a fan if we got there?
• 36:19
  SPEAKER_00: I don't know because I'm getting married next June so um that's annoying I don't know if we'd go into the World Women's World Cup for a fine then would go down to uh I'll maybe wait till after the the Weddington suggests that.
• 36:32
  SPEAKER_01: To bring it up that's such unfortunate time and we've waited all these years.
• 36:37
  SPEAKER_01: I mean I've booked it as my fault you need to check your calendar ahead of time.
• 36:41
  SPEAKER_01: Just uh just before we finish up just when I was uh doing a wee bit of research into you I was reading the the kind of statements and things that were coming out when you retired from people who played with you and all these things and there was one from Laura Montgomery who's been on the podcast that she was a great guest for us but she described you as uh someone who lifts a room checks in on teammates and lives the values of a club I think you kind of touched on it earlier but just how important is that for you now as in in the position that you're in now when you've got these these younger players and they're coming up and you're you're the one that they look up to almost I don't know if they look up to me to really be like um no of course I I remember Monty's statement and listen like you know Monty as well I think Monty says how she really feels and it's not often you get something like that um but rightly so because when when I read it I was obviously it was very emotional at that time anyway but I was really emotional reading it and I think that was the biggest thing actually for me I got loads of really nice messages and I got loads of nice feedback but what sticks with you is obviously things like that and how you've made people feel or how you are as a person which always like bottom line matters more like it always will matter more so I think for me I try to definitely pass on that message to the girls and how you conduct yourself again going back to like PB and all these people who are who are still in the build and David Haley's still in the building he had me at first team at Celtic like all these people installed installed really good values in me including my family and obviously the people I met along the way but how to behave as a professional athlete I think is really important how you conduct yourself and how you are as a teammate is above all what people will will remember you by.
• 38:33
  SPEAKER_00: But how you make people feel and how you are as a person is 100% going to mean more to you at the end of your career.
• 38:41
  SPEAKER_00: And I think that's important.
• 38:43
  SPEAKER_00: I I I definitely am somebody within the within my role that if I don't think people are holding a standard or if I don't think they are behaving in a way that they should I will call it out and I think that also came from the era that I was in that you would get called out and that was acceptable and that was okay and I think that is important because I think they've got it all football has moved on so much we've got a long way to go up here I absolutely know that but you've been down to that facility it's unbelievable they walk in in the morning it's state of the art they get their breakfast they get their clothes they get everything given to them and if I was 16 17 or or even a wee older than that and was walking into that every day I think it would be easy to get carried away but they're they're really grounded kids and I think it's important we keep them grounded because you have all this but that's not going to get you there.
• 39:40
  SPEAKER_00: Like you need to do the work regardless so that's definitely something that I try to project and I think also I just have a relationship with them all now that honestly I'm like big sister fee at times like but I think that works and that allows me to to do my role better.
• 40:02
  SPEAKER_00: I think I've built up a really good level of trust with the girls that if they needed me they could come to me and I think that helps because you get the buy-in and you get people working and we have a really nice environment um I have nothing to do with the team or the selection or the tactics or anything like that.
• 40:21
  SPEAKER_00: I'm I'm literally nothing to do with it so that that's something that that really works um and we have a really nice working environment.
• 40:29
  SPEAKER_00: They know that if they cross the line and they're not pulling their weight then that changes and we've only had one or two outbursts that I've had to have and I don't like to do that but I also have to put myself out of my comfort zone as well if things aren't acceptable that that's not going to be accepted.
• 40:47
  SPEAKER_00: So they know that.
• 40:48
  SPEAKER_00: So I think yeah we have a really nice working relationship to be fair and I think it's a really balanced one that that works.
• 40:55
  SPEAKER_01: I think that's probably the perfect place to finish.
• 40:58
  SPEAKER_01: Listen thank you so much for giving us your time.
• 41:00
  SPEAKER_01: It's been a real joy to speak to you such good insights I probably think this is one of our best guests I would say so far.
• 41:09
  SPEAKER_01: Yeah you would if you've listened you'll know that I don't say that to everyone that you've just cast yourself in there.
• 41:17
  SPEAKER_01: No but listen thank you so much for your for your time we really appreciate it and best of luck for for the season and for everything I had uh thank you to you Alison and thank you to you for listening.