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How a Monday Night Table and a Sunday Pot of Pasta Shaped Bruce Bartolomeo's Life of Service · I Don't Know You

0:04
SPEAKER_00: Hey, I'm Matt.
0:06
SPEAKER_00: I'm a Jesus follower,
0:07
SPEAKER_00: husband, father, son,
0:09
SPEAKER_00: and friend who is deeply curious about people's creativity
0:13
SPEAKER_00: and how we unleash our unique talents onto a world that needs them.
0:17
SPEAKER_00: Today, I'm joined by my friend, Bruce.
0:19
SPEAKER_00: He's an entrepreneur,
0:20
SPEAKER_00: husband,
0:21
SPEAKER_00: and father who has the unique privilege of serving on a couple
0:24
SPEAKER_00: of faith-based nonprofit boards, including Barnabas.
0:27
SPEAKER_00: We talk about his upbringing and the power of encouragement,
0:31
SPEAKER_00: his daughters, and how to raise children.
0:33
SPEAKER_00: and spend some time talking about hospitality as a way of service.
0:37
SPEAKER_00: I really appreciated the way he questions and invites others into his life,
0:41
SPEAKER_00: and I'm sure you will too.
0:42
SPEAKER_01: Enjoy.
0:43
SPEAKER_01: Man, I'll tell you what, when I was...
0:45
SPEAKER_01: I didn't even know I needed a mentor when I was your age.
0:50
SPEAKER_01: I think I was internally starving for one.
0:55
SPEAKER_01: But, you know, like we shared the last time we met, I think I had something to try to prove.
1:01
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:02
SPEAKER_01: and and I was gonna do it no matter what yeah you know
1:07
SPEAKER_01: which you know my family suffered because of that but there's a I mean there's also
1:12
SPEAKER_00: the pro side of that and the cons the pros and cons list of like the grit
1:18
SPEAKER_00: and determination to get something done that's a really valuable asset for lack of
1:23
SPEAKER_01: a better way of saying yeah but it's it's but it but it's a liability if you're out
1:27
SPEAKER_01: of balance yeah
1:30
SPEAKER_01: yeah what do you mean by that expand on that you know there was times I was
1:34
SPEAKER_01: so driven to be successful I was more married to my business than I was my wife
1:42
SPEAKER_01: and it created a lot of resentment obvious I mean yeah rightfully so yeah you know
1:48
SPEAKER_01: so there was some healing yeah had to take place the untangling oh my gosh
1:54
SPEAKER_01: and you know and there you know until I really really
1:58
SPEAKER_01: understood that my identity was in Christ.
2:07
SPEAKER_01: It wasn't in what I did or what I was associated with by others.
2:13
SPEAKER_01: Once I understood that, I mean,
2:17
SPEAKER_01: talk about a change that,
2:20
SPEAKER_01: you know, just said, you know, Lord, renew, you know, create in me a clean heart.
2:25
SPEAKER_01: I mean, that's when it happened.
2:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
2:28
SPEAKER_01: you know and fortunately it wasn't too little too late because sometimes
2:33
SPEAKER_01: that happens yeah and I got to give you know just kudos to my wife
2:37
SPEAKER_01: for you know number one not bailing on me but they're not killing me you know
2:45
SPEAKER_01: but you know wake up with a knife
2:47
SPEAKER_01: in your neck you know no she's she's just she put up with a lot and so
2:54
SPEAKER_00: Well, I'm sure even in the frustration and tension of whatever that season was,
3:01
SPEAKER_00: there was still some version,
3:02
SPEAKER_00: like she didn't leave,
3:04
SPEAKER_00: so there was some version of something that you were providing for her,
3:07
SPEAKER_00: whether that was unhealthy or healthy,
3:10
SPEAKER_00: the security of having a provider or having fun together on some level.
3:17
SPEAKER_01: I think a lot of it was just a level of
3:24
SPEAKER_01: commitment because before when we were dating and talking
3:28
SPEAKER_01: about marriage you know we just said divorce is not an option mmm and this is
3:33
SPEAKER_01: before you guys are Christians right oh oh yeah she you know she grew up in
3:36
SPEAKER_01: a Christian home and
3:40
SPEAKER_01: and but you know I think I think too and it's funny we've been going
3:45
SPEAKER_01: through she's been going through like a box of old cards and letters and some things
3:49
SPEAKER_01: from her mom to from you know like when we were newly married and everything and
3:55
SPEAKER_01: and her mom's just like I see how you are with your family you're loyal you know and
4:01
SPEAKER_01: so we're glad to have you in our family you know
4:04
SPEAKER_01: so I you know I say I am I am very loyal yeah I'm not always very smart
4:11
SPEAKER_00: Well,
4:12
SPEAKER_00: I think it's better to be loyal in many instances than to be the smartest person
4:19
SPEAKER_00: or whatever.
4:19
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I think we talked about that last time.
4:22
SPEAKER_00: How can you not be the smartest person in the room most of the time?
4:27
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, but I think that takes humility to know that,
4:32
SPEAKER_01: like I said,
4:34
SPEAKER_01: the smartest person in the room is smart enough to have smarter people than in
4:37
SPEAKER_01: the room.
4:39
SPEAKER_00: And the humility to understand that
4:41
SPEAKER_00: there's always room to grow there's always new perspectives to understand
4:45
SPEAKER_01: and I think that applies to very well to a leader who is really mission focused
4:51
SPEAKER_01: that it doesn't all have to just like you know what's that African proverb
4:57
SPEAKER_01: if you want to go fast go alone if you want to go far go together yeah and
5:01
SPEAKER_01: but there's a lot of pieces to
5:03
SPEAKER_01: that yeah it's not just okay you know you're not dragging people
5:07
SPEAKER_00: yeah you know well that's the problem with like um adages that kind of create a myth
5:13
SPEAKER_00: of their own is like there's more nuance and complexity to almost everything in life
5:18
SPEAKER_00: than the the absoluteness of whatever pithy saying it is or yeah yeah there's um uh
5:27
SPEAKER_01: and I'll give you one before you leave it's uh uh
5:31
SPEAKER_01: Oh gosh, I'm trying to think of the name of the book.
5:34
SPEAKER_01: But it's a shepherd looks at the 39th Psalm.
5:39
SPEAKER_01: And it's an incredible view of how Middle Eastern shepherds differ
5:47
SPEAKER_01: from almost any other shepherd.
5:51
SPEAKER_01: The sheep follow Middle Eastern shepherds.
5:54
SPEAKER_01: Here, you know, every place else, the sheep are driven.
5:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, yeah.
5:58
SPEAKER_01: and I think that's just an incredible analogy of Jesus type leadership.
6:06
SPEAKER_01: You know, that if you're the right kind of leader, you don't have to drive people.
6:12
SPEAKER_01: They will follow.
6:13
SPEAKER_01: And it has to do with number one, trust.
6:16
SPEAKER_01: They've got to trust you.
6:19
SPEAKER_01: They've got to understand where you're going and also understand where they're going.
6:25
SPEAKER_01: It's just that they need to be engaged
6:28
SPEAKER_01: in the same mission that you're in.
6:30
SPEAKER_01: They need to believe in the value of that mission and the purpose of that mission.
6:34
SPEAKER_01: And when that's happening, gosh, leading is
6:40
SPEAKER_01: just so rewarding.
6:42
SPEAKER_01: It's not without its challenges.
6:44
SPEAKER_01: The trust is there all the way around.
6:49
SPEAKER_00: Was that a pivot from becoming a Christian that you learned that?
6:57
SPEAKER_00: Obviously that was over the course of time.
6:59
SPEAKER_01: I think too,
7:01
SPEAKER_01: I understood that because I think the value where I learned that was working
7:08
SPEAKER_01: for some people
7:10
SPEAKER_01: let's just say I learned more not how to run a business and how to treat people
7:16
SPEAKER_01: from some and it's just like if and I remember saying with one of the guys
7:20
SPEAKER_01: that I worked for I said and if I ever have employees I will never treat them
7:24
SPEAKER_01: the way they're treating this guy treats me and so that's kind of yeah
7:29
SPEAKER_01: that was my response to those things totally
7:32
SPEAKER_00: yeah well the inputs that we have um end up shaping us in in like even your friend
7:38
SPEAKER_00: where it's like his relationship with his mother like it was sort of almost
7:43
SPEAKER_00: in some way and probably not this is the wrong way to say this but
7:47
SPEAKER_00: a self-fulfilling prophecy of some sorts yeah um uh take it uh sorry but no I hate
7:56
SPEAKER_01: to do this but she's in a meet she just got um do what you got to do um
8:04
SPEAKER_01: Sorry about this.
8:05
SPEAKER_00: No, no worries.
8:06
SPEAKER_00: We'll keep this part in too for the podcast.
8:09
SPEAKER_00: Okay.
8:10
SPEAKER_00: All right.
8:11
SPEAKER_00: No, you're all good.
8:12
SPEAKER_00: That's not a big deal.
8:14
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, really like,
8:17
SPEAKER_00: I don't know,
8:18
SPEAKER_00: the idea of basically the good and the bad shape us in ways and how do we do that?
8:26
SPEAKER_00: How do we let the bad things shape us towards the good
8:30
SPEAKER_00: things that we'll do I mean that experience with that boss
8:34
SPEAKER_00: that you had it sounds like shaped you in many ways plural yes yeah many yeah that's
8:41
SPEAKER_00: the other thing too is like simplifying life in like oh this one experience made all
8:47
SPEAKER_00: the different it's like well no the stack of bricks that I was building
8:51
SPEAKER_00: and experience ended up being the house that I live in now or whatever it's
8:54
SPEAKER_01: a bad analogy yeah I want to build with the bricks I was hit with yes
9:01
SPEAKER_01: You're a popular guy People want to get ahold of you One of them,
9:06
SPEAKER_01: the other one was my daughter in Virginia She just came out of a meeting that she
9:12
SPEAKER_01: and I will need to discuss No,
9:14
SPEAKER_00: no, no, let's do this I don't want to break the rhythm here No worries
9:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I mean,
9:21
SPEAKER_00: we're kind of jumping into the middle of my questions around leadership
9:25
SPEAKER_00: and ownership and a lot of that stuff and kind of your journey with that,
9:31
SPEAKER_00: which is super fun to kind of be in the middle of it.
9:34
SPEAKER_00: But I do kind of want to understand kind of what we were talking about,
9:37
SPEAKER_00: some of the things and factors that shaped you into the type of
9:40
SPEAKER_00: leader and person that you are and the way that you make decisions.
9:45
SPEAKER_00: But something I've been experimenting with
9:47
SPEAKER_00: in these conversations is having almost like a theme quote around like the topic
9:55
SPEAKER_00: that
9:55
SPEAKER_00: I want to talk about and so I started reading the book that you gave me last time
10:02
SPEAKER_00: and wanted to kind of pull a quote from that because I like see this show up
10:08
SPEAKER_00: in your life a lot even from the conversations we've had from this guy Pat Morley
10:14
SPEAKER_00: that writes this book is it 12 a man's guide to work yeah yeah yeah oh there's 12
10:19
SPEAKER_00: of them there's 12 lessons in that yeah
10:21
SPEAKER_00: and he says this idea of like the heart of love is service small but practical acts
10:27
SPEAKER_00: of service have value even if you never talk about Jesus
10:31
SPEAKER_00: and even in our conversation I don't know if we were recording it but the idea
10:36
SPEAKER_00: of like all the seeds that you were planting along the road of your relationship
10:40
SPEAKER_00: with this guy Bill where it's like those acts of service
10:45
SPEAKER_00: to him saved his life either metaphorically or like physically because of those acts
10:53
SPEAKER_00: of love basically that you were doing but I think
10:57
SPEAKER_00: Think of like I want to frame our conversation within that theme
11:00
SPEAKER_00: of like it seems like a lot of The way that you've pursued life is in like a life
11:07
SPEAKER_00: of service after like Meeting Christ it sounds like maybe maybe there was still that
11:13
SPEAKER_00: before Christ, but it seems like it's very explicitly the motive changed.
11:17
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right.
11:18
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I think it was it's been there.
11:20
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, but the motive changed.
11:21
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I
11:23
SPEAKER_00: and so I kind of want to talk about like what was your first like real job like
11:28
SPEAKER_00: and was there someone that kind of empowered you or inspired you to
11:34
SPEAKER_00: that like service type and work ethic
11:39
SPEAKER_00: that you started cultivating gosh I think I had so many jobs before it's
11:45
SPEAKER_01: you know I think one of you know I was probably in seventh grade I had
11:49
SPEAKER_01: a paper route back east and it wasn't like here in California you throw papers
11:53
SPEAKER_01: on driveways it was like you were I was putting up mail tubes for people and
12:00
SPEAKER_01: and putting them in their screen doors and
12:02
SPEAKER_01: then elder you know yeah there storm doors you know you're doing in the snow and
12:06
SPEAKER_01: the rain and you know the mail let's go through right and
12:11
SPEAKER_01: and it was just and then you know it was just like that bit of responsibility
12:16
SPEAKER_01: that people counted on you to do that every day yeah and and
12:21
SPEAKER_01: then you'd spend three hours on Saturday you know so it was a six day
12:27
SPEAKER_01: a week paper yeah so each day took me an hour then another three hours on Saturday
12:33
SPEAKER_01: so I had eight hours and I think I'm I think I would clear with tips you know
12:38
SPEAKER_01: back then the newspaper was 10 cents a day right
12:41
SPEAKER_00: and would you like pick it up somewhere in the oh no the guy would you drop them
12:46
SPEAKER_01: at my house and it was funny and here's this older guy that worked
12:49
SPEAKER_01: for this newspaper and I had like a plywood box with a lid on it and he dropped
12:53
SPEAKER_01: the papers every day I told how many customers I had and
12:58
SPEAKER_01: he would try to cheat me I'm like I'm like a seventh-grade kid and he would try
13:03
SPEAKER_01: to cheat me out of a you know 30 cents yeah you know
13:06
SPEAKER_01: and I'm like Benny you know it was his name I could I can still picture him you know
13:11
SPEAKER_01: how old was he he was probably in his 30s or 40s well I can't remember
13:18
SPEAKER_01: but I you know I don't know but but here I'd work literally eight hours a week yeah
13:24
SPEAKER_01: or
13:24
SPEAKER_01: you know basically my own business for maybe $13 yeah you know yeah and
13:30
SPEAKER_01: but hey you know back in you know 1968 this was that was pretty good
13:36
SPEAKER_01: for some good walking around money yeah for it was so so anyway
13:41
SPEAKER_01: but just I think just taking responsibility and you know I was 14 and closing up
13:48
SPEAKER_01: a gas station by myself at 9 o'clock at night
13:51
SPEAKER_01: yeah you know so these guys that I think just that they could see
13:55
SPEAKER_01: that this kid is honest he's you know he's
13:59
SPEAKER_01: a hard worker he does what he says he's I can trust him yeah
14:03
SPEAKER_00: So like I said,
14:03
SPEAKER_00: I was working for the guy for just a few months and he's like, hey, I'm leaving.
14:07
SPEAKER_00: Here's the keys, close the place up.
14:08
SPEAKER_00: And you're 14 at this point.
14:09
SPEAKER_00: I was 14 years old.
14:10
SPEAKER_00: That's just, it's unfathomable to think about that.
14:14
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I'm like, oh my gosh.
14:16
SPEAKER_01: But I think what it did is it gives you confidence when somebody older puts trust in you.
14:24
SPEAKER_01: And there's been a number of those people in my life
14:28
SPEAKER_01: that and I think when they put trust in you and you don't betray
14:32
SPEAKER_01: the trust it it builds confidence
14:36
SPEAKER_01: and I think it frames how life works better yeah instead of trying to you know try
14:41
SPEAKER_01: to always you know get away with the minimum or whatever yeah but you know so it was
14:49
SPEAKER_01: a it was a life of a work life of seeing that if you work hard
14:55
SPEAKER_01: the rewards will come right and and the relationships are there and
15:01
SPEAKER_01: the reputations there and so you can put something down on a on a on a resume as
15:08
SPEAKER_01: a reference and get a good reference you know you're not fearful
15:11
SPEAKER_01: about putting somebody's putting some job experience down yeah leaving
15:16
SPEAKER_00: a place like better than you found it so that
15:19
SPEAKER_01: you can have that oh exactly and I just learned early on
15:23
SPEAKER_01: if you borrow something bring it back better you know bring it back cleaner sharper
15:28
SPEAKER_01: yeah better than what you have it you borrow somebody's car if you're using it for
15:32
SPEAKER_01: a handful of days go get an oil change on it and bring give them a full tank
15:36
SPEAKER_01: when they come back and have it washed and cleaned yeah
15:39
SPEAKER_00: Who would you say like was that the first like mentor or inspirational person
15:47
SPEAKER_00: that you were like man I look up to this guy and he's sort of taking me
15:51
SPEAKER_00: under his wing in a different way than like the gas shop owner
15:55
SPEAKER_00: that was just like hey I'm leaving so like you're in charge of this thing
15:59
SPEAKER_00: and you like did right by him but he maybe necessarily wasn't that inspiration
16:04
SPEAKER_01: yeah there was there was a couple guys one was was one of my dad's best friends
16:10
SPEAKER_01: who actually he used to own that Gulf Station years ago and then
16:14
SPEAKER_01: before I started working there he was a painting contractor he got
16:18
SPEAKER_01: into real estate he built custom homes he just became
16:21
SPEAKER_01: a you know real estate guy became an appraiser and he could see that early on
16:26
SPEAKER_01: that I wanted to work with my hands and so just just some things interactions
16:30
SPEAKER_01: with him but I think
16:32
SPEAKER_01: um more so it was uh my my cousin Teresa's husband Lou
16:39
SPEAKER_01: who uh they were I mean they were like 20 plus years older okay than me right and um
16:49
SPEAKER_01: so
16:50
SPEAKER_01: but Lou was a they were in Brooklyn and then he bought a farm upstate New York
16:56
SPEAKER_01: and he was a roofer and a tinsmith I mean not just a journeyman he was
17:00
SPEAKER_01: a master craftsman and guy could do anything so I used to spend my summers up on
17:05
SPEAKER_01: the farm where we were cutting fields and bailing hay and riding motorcycles and in
17:09
SPEAKER_01: the winter we're riding snow machines and but he was just a guy
17:13
SPEAKER_01: that gave me responsibility but also guidance and he never got mad
17:20
SPEAKER_01: at me you know he would correct me when I was screwing up or something
17:25
SPEAKER_01: and like said his his oldest son was a year younger than me so I was like one
17:28
SPEAKER_01: of his kids and I got treated that way and
17:33
SPEAKER_01: he was he was like a second dad to me and man I never ever wanted
17:38
SPEAKER_01: to disappoint him I know I disappointed my dad a number of times but I never wanted
17:44
SPEAKER_01: to disappoint interesting and so we just he's because of that guidance piece
17:50
SPEAKER_01: that he was giving you and just the fact that I think he took an interest in me
17:56
SPEAKER_01: and took an interest in me and the things I was interested in and encouraged me
18:01
SPEAKER_01: in those and
18:03
SPEAKER_01: that made all the difference in me I mean because there were some times during
18:08
SPEAKER_01: that stage of my life I could have I could have taken a hard left yeah and
18:14
SPEAKER_01: but he would
18:16
SPEAKER_01: and you know it's not like he would have been harsh he would have he would have kind
18:23
SPEAKER_01: of loved me back in line and just kind of had an honest conversation
18:28
SPEAKER_01: with me you know
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SPEAKER_01: you know so it was my summers in high school yeah and so it's like I'm trying
19:21
SPEAKER_00: to picture like ripped Bruce like I mean you're still kind of ripped but like back
19:27
SPEAKER_00: in when you're 16
19:29
SPEAKER_00: or whatever throwing hey those are not summer no no it's all day you know it wasn't
19:38
SPEAKER_01: no it was it was great it got me in great shape
19:40
SPEAKER_01: for wrestling season character building
19:44
SPEAKER_00: I love that idea of like loving people back into I forget the way
19:50
SPEAKER_00: that you said it loving people back into like obedience is kind of what I took
19:54
SPEAKER_00: from like even if like his disappointment would have been more of
19:59
SPEAKER_00: a disciplinary action for you than almost anything else it sounds like
20:03
SPEAKER_00: where it was like because you respected him because of the guidance that he gave you
20:08
SPEAKER_00: and the trust that you guys had together like that allowed for
20:13
SPEAKER_00: even when you messed up or whatever that was um like not wanting to let him down in
20:20
SPEAKER_00: that way seemed like a bigger yeah that was it I just you know
20:24
SPEAKER_01: because I knew I knew he he loved me like one of his kids yeah and um
20:32
SPEAKER_01: and I never wanted to have him hurt because of me I didn't ever feel
20:36
SPEAKER_01: that I disappointed him or whatever and uh
20:40
SPEAKER_00: yeah that's really cool and and so the the caveat and the challenge
20:45
SPEAKER_00: with your dad was like he was very much at least from the conversation we had
20:50
SPEAKER_00: before like very much the provider mindset of like I need to provide
20:54
SPEAKER_00: for my family I need to make ends meet and I'm gonna give them a good life but
20:59
SPEAKER_00: that came at the cost of like the presentness yeah and not only that I think it was
21:05
SPEAKER_01: that you know his intentions were
21:10
SPEAKER_01: were exemplary.
21:13
SPEAKER_01: The execution of them or the interaction with me is just that
21:17
SPEAKER_01: because you know I said I always wanted to work with my hands and you know just
21:21
SPEAKER_01: the era he grew up in is that those people that worked with their hands
21:26
SPEAKER_01: struggled financially and all of that and he wanted a different path for me
21:32
SPEAKER_01: but he didn't necessarily make that clear and just sit down and explain and
21:37
SPEAKER_01: from what I understand talking to some of my older cousins who knew my grandfather
21:42
SPEAKER_01: who again didn't speak any English but he just said yeah he was
21:45
SPEAKER_01: a stern man well you know he came to the country here in 19 he was a laborer on
21:49
SPEAKER_01: the railroad yeah you know he'd be out all night clearing switches like in the snow
21:53
SPEAKER_01: and
21:54
SPEAKER_01: He was a hard working man.
21:55
SPEAKER_00: It's a different type of person that's built in that.
21:57
SPEAKER_01: It was a different era.
21:59
SPEAKER_01: Kids were seen and not heard.
22:01
SPEAKER_01: And that's the era my dad grew up in.
22:05
SPEAKER_01: So that transition of when I was growing up, I think there was that expectation of that.
22:12
SPEAKER_01: And I was anything but that.
22:14
SPEAKER_00: Well it's interesting that like you're sort of in
22:17
SPEAKER_00: that transitionary role even your generation of like you admitted to the idea
22:23
SPEAKER_00: of like well I sort of have those workaholic tendencies but then also like
22:27
SPEAKER_00: the conversations we've had around parenting and fostering
22:29
SPEAKER_00: of like that's like one of the most important things you've done in your life
22:34
SPEAKER_00: where it's like being present for your family and being available to like teach them
22:40
SPEAKER_00: and grow them like that that is something that it sounds like maybe Lou like helped
22:48
SPEAKER_00: and shaped you in from a very young age and then
22:51
SPEAKER_00: of course probably many other people he had a good balance I mean he wasn't
22:56
SPEAKER_01: You know, I don't think he was a believer.
22:59
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:01
SPEAKER_01: But he was just a good, honest man.
23:04
SPEAKER_01: Very, pretty opinionated, I will say.
23:08
SPEAKER_01: Well, he's like an Italian dude, right?
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
23:11
SPEAKER_01: Spinelli was his last name, you know?
23:14
SPEAKER_00: Lou Spinelli.
23:15
SPEAKER_00: That is like a mafia name if I've ever heard it.
23:19
SPEAKER_01: Well, actually, my cousin Teresa, who he married, Teresa's dad, Vito Lucchesi.
23:26
SPEAKER_01: oh my god out of Brooklyn yes yeah you know
23:29
SPEAKER_01: that there's family ties Uncle Vitty we called him oh my gosh what
23:32
SPEAKER_01: a character he was that sounds like it's out of
23:35
SPEAKER_01: a book oh gosh I can't even say his name without smiling and just saying he was just
23:40
SPEAKER_00: so stereotypical you know okay I'm picturing like a large Italian guy no he was
23:44
SPEAKER_01: a smaller guy okay but oh gosh just
23:48
SPEAKER_01: oh he was so he became a Mets fan because he always used to complain with that
23:54
SPEAKER_01: the Brooklyn Dodgers moved to LA in 58 you know yeah and so he's like
23:58
SPEAKER_01: so he was never going to be a Yankee fan yeah yeah so he was so he became a Mets fan
24:03
SPEAKER_01: but he would always complain about the Dodgers leaving okay so you grew up being
24:06
SPEAKER_01: a Mets fan too you know I am not a professional sports fan at
24:12
SPEAKER_01: You give me some guy's name,
24:13
SPEAKER_01: I couldn't tell you whether he played baseball or basketball or football.
24:16
SPEAKER_01: The same way.
24:17
SPEAKER_01: Except for the very, very well-known ones.
24:19
SPEAKER_01: Yes, Michael Jordan.
24:20
SPEAKER_01: But I like sports.
24:21
SPEAKER_01: I've played sports.
24:22
SPEAKER_01: My kids are all athletes.
24:24
SPEAKER_01: I've got grandkids that are athletes.
24:25
SPEAKER_00: That's why it's surprising to me because you're a very athletic family.
24:31
SPEAKER_00: But I kind of resonate with that idea.
24:33
SPEAKER_00: I don't really know much about sports.
24:34
SPEAKER_00: I only know anything about hockey because Shelby's been a big hockey fan for a long time.
24:40
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
24:41
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love playing sports and I love interacting.
24:45
SPEAKER_01: It just never interested me to follow somebody else's career.
24:49
SPEAKER_01: I was more focused on what I was doing than spending that time
24:53
SPEAKER_01: on what somebody else was doing that has no relevance to me whatsoever.
24:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, taking energy and focus away from the thing that you're doing.
25:01
SPEAKER_01: Again, I'm not saying it's good, bad, or indifferent.
25:03
SPEAKER_01: I'm just saying it just wasn't for me.
25:04
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
25:05
SPEAKER_00: yeah no that makes sense but that's funny to learn knowing like the the focus
25:11
SPEAKER_00: that like sports played in the family um growing up
25:15
SPEAKER_01: and my dad really wasn't sports right
25:17
SPEAKER_01: but my mom my mom was you know my mom played sports you know we had a we had
25:20
SPEAKER_01: a big yard and
25:21
SPEAKER_00: so we'd be out there we'd be pitching horseshoes we'd be playing softball we'd be
25:25
SPEAKER_00: playing
25:26
SPEAKER_00: you know you know badminton yeah okay you know we were always doing stuff we played
25:31
SPEAKER_01: football as kids in our backyard and you know just all kinds of stuff you know
25:35
SPEAKER_00: and remind me you come from sisters and no no brothers or one one I'm
25:42
SPEAKER_01: the youngest I have a brother three year old or three years older and
25:45
SPEAKER_01: a sister five years okay okay
25:47
SPEAKER_00: yeah cool so growing up in that house you got to learn from their their lessons
25:51
SPEAKER_00: as well on some level yeah that's a whole other topic all right I won't press on
25:57
SPEAKER_00: that well I kind of want to like skip forward to the season that you're
26:05
SPEAKER_00: in now I mostly wanted to talk about
26:08
SPEAKER_00: your upbringing a little bit just because I find it so fascinating like
26:13
SPEAKER_00: where we've been oftentimes like orients us where we're going in many ways and
26:22
SPEAKER_00: so I think I was curious about kind of hearing about the upbringing because it's
26:26
SPEAKER_00: so it's so different than my upbringing and there's so many different lessons
26:31
SPEAKER_00: that I was curious about kind of
26:34
SPEAKER_00: coming from the the station in life that that I grew up in but I see
26:39
SPEAKER_01: when I was real little there were no seatbelts
26:42
SPEAKER_00: or car seats yeah that's just again it's like a crazy idea to me
26:47
SPEAKER_00: and we didn't have bike helmets yeah well just think like my daughter is growing up
26:52
SPEAKER_00: in the age that like she might not ever drive like she might not be allowed
26:57
SPEAKER_00: to like legally
26:59
SPEAKER_00: Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler
27:02
SPEAKER_01: Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler
27:05
SPEAKER_01: Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler Mattheisler
27:09
SPEAKER_00: Mattheisler
27:26
SPEAKER_00: but I'm curious like so over the last 30 plus years you built a business and
27:34
SPEAKER_00: then sold it and then stepped away to kind of live out this life verse that you have
27:41
SPEAKER_00: Mattheisler Mattheisler
27:57
SPEAKER_00: And I'm just curious,
27:59
SPEAKER_00: like as you stepped away from like your business and retiring is not the right word
28:06
SPEAKER_00: because you're you're not someone who's retired,
28:08
SPEAKER_00: in my opinion, like as you went through that transition.
28:12
SPEAKER_00: transition of life what did it look like from like owning a business
28:18
SPEAKER_00: and stepping out of it and then kind of what did that like cost in some ways
28:23
SPEAKER_00: to get rid of this to put on this like new identity of living
28:29
SPEAKER_00: that out versus like owning a business and maybe there wasn't a huge identity shift
28:35
SPEAKER_00: in that but I'm curious well I think you know one of the things that
28:41
SPEAKER_01: that that was a huge paradigm shift for me and it would happen in
28:46
SPEAKER_01: a convene meeting one day guys were talking about you know bringing business issues
28:50
SPEAKER_01: and and I'm here in my business my business my business my business
28:54
SPEAKER_01: and it just hit me it's like whoa whoa timeout I said we're temporary stewards
29:01
SPEAKER_01: and I said and I think the problem comes when we think we're owners and not stewards
29:06
SPEAKER_01: that have to give an account
29:09
SPEAKER_01: and and it was just like you could hear the pin drop in the room it's just like wow
29:14
SPEAKER_01: that changes everything yeah right because yeah you have responsibilities
29:21
SPEAKER_01: but you have but you're not only responsible to yourself and
29:25
SPEAKER_01: to your employees you're responsible to
29:28
SPEAKER_01: you know utilize your time talents and treasures because God's given you everything
29:33
SPEAKER_01: and you're gonna see some of that in that in that book there too I mean even
29:38
SPEAKER_01: the ability to work God's given you he's given you you know you think
29:42
SPEAKER_01: that these opportunities and these things that you created because you showed up
29:46
SPEAKER_01: to this or you did that yeah no yeah you know I mean if you really look at it
29:53
SPEAKER_01: and get off yourself for a little bit you can kind of just see God's
29:57
SPEAKER_01: you know provisional hand in everything as a matter of fact Becky
30:00
SPEAKER_01: and I view things you know it's either God's provision
30:03
SPEAKER_01: or his protection you know you know when
30:06
SPEAKER_01: the no comes okay that's that's his protection right there
30:10
SPEAKER_01: and it could be some provision too because he's holding you off
30:13
SPEAKER_01: to something better yeah so I you know I think that that's where you know we have
30:20
SPEAKER_01: to you know get rid of the your
30:24
SPEAKER_01: your own three-person trinity, the I, me, my, right?
30:28
SPEAKER_01: And start focusing on the real trinity, right?
30:30
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
30:31
SPEAKER_01: And let the Holy Spirit lead and all that.
30:34
SPEAKER_01: But, you know,
30:35
SPEAKER_01: the transition was, well,
30:39
SPEAKER_01: we talked a little bit about that last week,
30:41
SPEAKER_01: but, you know, it's just that I felt that God was giving me this time.
30:49
SPEAKER_01: I was able to step away from the business at 55, right?
30:54
SPEAKER_01: and
30:54
SPEAKER_01: so it's like okay Lord you you've given me freedom now you've you've provided you've
31:02
SPEAKER_01: so what do you want me to do you know and a lot
31:07
SPEAKER_01: of it isn't just sitting around waiting and you know
31:09
SPEAKER_01: and I've I've shared this you know with a number of younger guys it's like you got
31:15
SPEAKER_01: to show up to stuff because nothing happens
31:17
SPEAKER_01: if you're staying home playing video games right
31:19
SPEAKER_01: you just just show up you know you get an invite to some whether it's a conference
31:24
SPEAKER_01: or a meeting or a lunch with
31:27
SPEAKER_01: and it's just it's incredible how God will open opportunities
31:31
SPEAKER_01: if you're looking yeah being available you know he he he wants our availability more
31:41
SPEAKER_01: than our ability you know and
31:43
SPEAKER_01: again just some of the things that he's allowed me to be involved
31:46
SPEAKER_01: with it's like I have no clue what I'm doing here but I'll go
31:50
SPEAKER_01: because I hear you calling and it's just so it's like he doesn't always call
31:57
SPEAKER_01: the equipped but he will equip the call I mean scripture is ripe
32:01
SPEAKER_00: with all those examples I would argue that he intentionally does not call
32:05
SPEAKER_00: the equipped
32:07
SPEAKER_01: Well, because then you tend to make it on your,
32:09
SPEAKER_01: you know, you think it's like, hey, this is what I'm bringing.
32:12
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:13
SPEAKER_01: You know, but when you show up and say, I got nothing.
32:15
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:16
SPEAKER_01: And God's like, watch me.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, and that's where the fun begins.
32:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's where the excitement is.
32:22
SPEAKER_01: You know, that's the tip of the spear right there.
32:25
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:26
SPEAKER_00: I need to hear that in this season.
32:29
SPEAKER_00: I feel very ill-equipped to do all the things I want to do.
32:34
SPEAKER_00: And yeah, it takes the faith and the action and intentionality, I think.
32:39
SPEAKER_01: Well, if you only try to accomplish things within your comfort zone or your area
32:48
SPEAKER_01: that maybe you think that you're the best in,
32:51
SPEAKER_01: I've said for years,
32:53
SPEAKER_01: there's no growth in the comfort zone and no comfort in the growth zone.
32:57
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
32:58
SPEAKER_01: it's good you know and it's just it's so true you know but it's just like you know
33:05
SPEAKER_01: and that's worth but that's where
33:06
SPEAKER_01: the excitement is it's just yeah okay well I remember when you know early on
33:11
SPEAKER_01: and you know working with my tools you know I sign up a new job and and
33:17
SPEAKER_01: and it was just me back then you know as a handyman or whatever
33:21
SPEAKER_01: and Becky would say have you ever done that before and I said no
33:27
SPEAKER_01: she goes what are you gonna do I said I'll figure it out you know yeah
33:31
SPEAKER_01: and it was just and so it wasn't just like you know again this is a lot of the stuff
33:35
SPEAKER_01: that you know what I was doing in the construction and it was a lot
33:39
SPEAKER_01: of it was just common sense and but then again there's that I feel
33:42
SPEAKER_01: that God has gifted me with that he's you know there's a lot of other things
33:45
SPEAKER_01: that I see people gifted with it's like man I'm not even close to what you're doing
33:50
SPEAKER_00: yeah how do you use your gifting and then also stretch yourself within that
33:56
SPEAKER_00: where it was like well my discipline was construction but my gifting was
34:01
SPEAKER_00: in this specific thing within construction but then when I needed to be stretched
34:07
SPEAKER_00: I would go out of that like I still was gifted in construction I could figure it out
34:12
SPEAKER_00: and if I couldn't I knew people that would help or whatever it was
34:15
SPEAKER_00: but yeah that's such an interesting lesson to be learned
34:19
SPEAKER_00: where it's like we always want our ducks to be in a row before we kind
34:23
SPEAKER_01: of do anything I think yeah a lot of times back in 2003 I did the master's program
34:32
SPEAKER_01: through Priority Living Bob Shank and Bob Shank was teaching it then and oh epic
34:37
SPEAKER_01: and oh man that was you know three years of that that literally was probably
34:43
SPEAKER_01: the biggest paradigm shift in my life really I've just like you know one of
34:48
SPEAKER_01: the monikers was is your career is what you're paid for
34:50
SPEAKER_01: and your calling is what you're made for mmm and really trying to
34:54
SPEAKER_01: that whole three-year journey of some of the most challenging reading
34:59
SPEAKER_01: that I've ever done yeah and I used to read a lot
35:03
SPEAKER_00: Okay, I was going to ask, have you always been a reader?
35:05
SPEAKER_01: You know, yeah, I think so.
35:06
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
35:07
SPEAKER_01: You know, and a lot of it was reading with purpose.
35:10
SPEAKER_01: You know, when I was really young, it was recreational.
35:13
SPEAKER_01: When I was,
35:13
SPEAKER_01: you know, gosh,
35:15
SPEAKER_01: I think probably a freshman in high school, I'm reading, you know, hot rod books.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:18
SPEAKER_01: You know, things about all kinds of things like that.
35:21
SPEAKER_01: I was always interested.
35:22
SPEAKER_01: Again, it's working with my hands, right?
35:24
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
35:26
SPEAKER_01: But that was a huge shift in kind of like, okay, well, God's gifted you this way.
35:35
SPEAKER_01: How are you going to use it for the kingdom?
35:38
SPEAKER_01: And that, like I said, that was like, okay.
35:43
SPEAKER_00: Is this while you're still running the business?
35:46
SPEAKER_01: Right, yeah,
35:46
SPEAKER_01: because I stepped out in 2010,
35:47
SPEAKER_01: end of 2010, and this was 2003 to 2006 that I did that.
35:55
SPEAKER_01: and uh it it really changed everything yeah for me was there a specific piece of
36:02
SPEAKER_00: so that's a three-year journey um was there a specific piece
36:06
SPEAKER_00: that you were like man this is the the one thing that I really took away
36:10
SPEAKER_00: from this time and like applied to my life liberally wow um that's
36:16
SPEAKER_01: a hard question yeah yeah I wish you would have given me
36:20
SPEAKER_01: that one three days ago look at it
36:30
SPEAKER_01: I'm probably gonna have to because there was there was just a wealth
36:35
SPEAKER_01: of yeah it was just you know that was all part of the stew you know
36:40
SPEAKER_01: that yeah every you know every bit to be savored you know yeah
36:44
SPEAKER_00: so yeah that's what I've heard yeah maybe I need to take another look
36:48
SPEAKER_00: at doing something with
36:49
SPEAKER_01: that yeah I don't know I don't know how they do it now that's all online
36:53
SPEAKER_01: but you know Bob just has just
36:57
SPEAKER_01: way about him.
36:58
SPEAKER_01: He was keynote in Barnabas earlier this year.
37:01
SPEAKER_00: He started Barnabas.
37:02
SPEAKER_00: Talk about an interesting dude that's lived a pretty fascinating life.
37:09
SPEAKER_01: yeah yeah yeah
37:10
SPEAKER_00: so it's uh yeah it's all good um how would you describe your focus now like what are
37:18
SPEAKER_00: you what are you focused on is it the same as when you when you transitioned
37:23
SPEAKER_00: into um out of the business or is it different now um
37:29
SPEAKER_01: the big difference now is I've got a bunch of grandkids and a great grandson
37:34
SPEAKER_01: so I didn't know you had
37:34
SPEAKER_01: a great grandson yeah that's incredible yeah yeah no kidding that's for old people
37:39
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, actually, I guess I need to look at that driver's license again and remember.
37:47
SPEAKER_01: No, I think just, you know, because I've got three local grandkids here.
37:51
SPEAKER_01: Next week, we're going to Virginia.
37:54
SPEAKER_01: and I'll be around my other grandkids and my daughter and her husband.
37:59
SPEAKER_01: And it's just, we look forward to that.
38:03
SPEAKER_01: And I've actually, I've got a lot of friends back there because we go back often enough too.
38:08
SPEAKER_01: So I'll go see friends of mine back there.
38:12
SPEAKER_01: my daughter would always tease me she says dad I think my friends are more your
38:15
SPEAKER_01: friends than they are my friends you know I feel that I feel that
38:19
SPEAKER_00: with my my friends feel like my brother's friends more
38:22
SPEAKER_00: than my friends sometimes like I just got a text from my brother and one
38:27
SPEAKER_00: of my friends this morning that they like went and saw a movie
38:29
SPEAKER_00: and didn't invite me yesterday and I was like what's up with that
38:34
SPEAKER_01: the only reason you guys know each other is because of me yeah and
38:37
SPEAKER_00: so thanks yeah like I really appreciate that they were saying thanks it's like oh
38:41
SPEAKER_00: but you're having a baby or whatever it's like I'm not yet oh you dirty dogs
38:48
SPEAKER_00: I mean yeah I'm grateful that my friends like my family and that that's
38:54
SPEAKER_00: a testament I think to who you are that like their friends want to like be
39:00
SPEAKER_00: with you too and spend time with you
39:02
SPEAKER_01: and even our local grandkids here you know it's like so we get
39:06
SPEAKER_01: the little guy well he just turned eight so they stay over one night a week
39:12
SPEAKER_01: and that's so cool and then so we'll get him to bed and everything and
39:16
SPEAKER_01: then we would do stuff together
39:18
SPEAKER_01: but then also my two granddaughters 11 and 13 they're up in our room
39:23
SPEAKER_01: and you know talking with us and doing stuff
39:25
SPEAKER_00: and oh it's just every single week all three of them spend
39:29
SPEAKER_01: the night here oh yeah every oh yeah they've done it since they've been about
39:31
SPEAKER_01: a year old oh my gosh you need to talk to my parents
39:36
SPEAKER_01: oh it's just it's been one you know it gives my daughter and son-in-law a kind of
39:40
SPEAKER_01: a night that's crazy that's awesome well they live close they're a couple miles away
39:44
SPEAKER_01: so it's convenient and it's funny our grandkids not probably know more
39:48
SPEAKER_01: where everything is in my house than I do yeah you know yeah well that's amazing
39:52
SPEAKER_00: though too that you're like willing to because I mean I'm assuming it's decent
39:56
SPEAKER_00: a decent amount of work to be intentional as a grandparent too like
40:00
SPEAKER_00: um there's one version of Bruce that's like well I'm retired I'm done
40:04
SPEAKER_00: with this I'm done with being like the the new dad again because you kind of are
40:10
SPEAKER_00: a new dad if you're being like an intentional parent
40:12
SPEAKER_00: because you're like you're still doing all the same stuff well less of
40:15
SPEAKER_00: the same stuff that you did
40:17
SPEAKER_00: when you first had kids well it's it's it's different you know
40:21
SPEAKER_01: and especially you know having adult kids that are married and families of their own
40:25
SPEAKER_01: and all too so I mean my daughter in Virginia that called a little bit ago I mean
40:30
SPEAKER_01: I can't tell you I mean it's darn near every day we talk yeah and about something
40:37
SPEAKER_01: as hey dad you know I you know I it's just some of the best parts of my day what is
40:43
SPEAKER_01: when I get a phone call it says hey dad I have a question yeah you know
40:47
SPEAKER_00: and even like so it feels like hey I'm still relevant in somebody's life oh yeah
40:53
SPEAKER_00: well and you that's the fruition from my understanding of like years
40:59
SPEAKER_00: of planting seeds when they were younger to be available to be present to push them
41:05
SPEAKER_00: and challenge them so that like even in this conversation getting a call
41:10
SPEAKER_00: from your daughter to be like there was some sort of important call
41:13
SPEAKER_00: that like you guys are going to work through and she's going to like brainstorm
41:17
SPEAKER_00: with you and you'll be a sounding board but that doesn't seem to happen
41:21
SPEAKER_00: unless you like
41:23
SPEAKER_00: do you lay the foundation at
41:25
SPEAKER_01: the beginning you know well you know I think too you know God created us with
41:32
SPEAKER_01: a yearning for a sense of community now whether that's with family or others
41:37
SPEAKER_01: or Matt Heisler Italians are really good at this well you know it's it's phenomenal
41:44
SPEAKER_01: but I think too you know I have a Monday night group of guys that most
41:48
SPEAKER_01: of them are younger than you you know and
41:51
SPEAKER_01: and we've been meeting for years and years now.
41:53
SPEAKER_01: And I just counted a privilege to be invited into their lives.
42:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just like, what does that say?
42:03
SPEAKER_01: I mean, it's just,
42:05
SPEAKER_01: you know, I just,
42:07
SPEAKER_01: you know,
42:07
SPEAKER_01: it's one of the most rewarding and joyous things I think I can experience is
42:13
SPEAKER_01: to be invited into someone's life at a deep level.
42:18
SPEAKER_00: You know, it's just,
42:20
SPEAKER_01: that's how God created us he that's how the relationship he wants
42:24
SPEAKER_00: with us totally right yeah we're seeking belonging and purpose
42:28
SPEAKER_01: and value yeah relationship you know to feel valued I mean that's what I mean
42:34
SPEAKER_01: if we don't feel valued for what Christ did on the cross for us it's like
42:39
SPEAKER_01: I think you need to re-read a few sections of the Bible.
42:43
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
42:44
SPEAKER_00: I mean, that's this whole deal, right?
42:47
SPEAKER_00: Like love others and love me.
42:50
SPEAKER_00: And so how do we get to step into that?
42:53
SPEAKER_00: Because I'm assuming you were the person that reached out and built this group
42:58
SPEAKER_00: of guys or whatever.
43:00
SPEAKER_00: And then over time,
43:01
SPEAKER_00: they've continued to see the value in that and wanted to continue relationship.
43:06
SPEAKER_01: but maybe I'm making an assumption no no I mean it's just funny one
43:10
SPEAKER_01: of them they he moved in down the street and he was walking down the street
43:14
SPEAKER_01: with his wife and his little rescue dog one night and I happen to be in the garage
43:18
SPEAKER_01: and we said hey you know it just introduced myself and yeah I'd kind
43:22
SPEAKER_01: of you know kind of just found out in that very first conversation
43:26
SPEAKER_01: that they were Christians and I said hey I got a Monday night men's group you want
43:29
SPEAKER_01: to come here he's been coming for four years now amazing
43:32
SPEAKER_01: you know and then he invited a guy that works for him and
43:35
SPEAKER_01: then he invited three other guys that he goes to the gym with you know so cool and
43:39
SPEAKER_01: so it's just like hey Bruce can you know I keep the group small I keep it I cap it
43:43
SPEAKER_01: at eight awesome because I want an opportunity for each guy to be heard yeah
43:50
SPEAKER_01: and we take time each Monday night to
43:54
SPEAKER_01: hey you know hey give me an update give me an update before we get
43:57
SPEAKER_00: into whatever it is well and that could be the whole time oh and there's been
44:01
SPEAKER_01: a number of times it has and there's a number of times with it's been
44:06
SPEAKER_01: with one guy's really going through a crisis and so we hear get feedback pray
44:12
SPEAKER_01: over them do you know yeah and it's just like
44:19
SPEAKER_01: you know and i just keep saying too it's funny john lind our board chair
44:23
SPEAKER_01: at barnabas uh when we were doing some things with helping out with uh up at
44:28
SPEAKER_01: the alta dean of fires last year like and i feel this way all
44:33
SPEAKER_01: the time i said john we get to do this yeah you know are you kidding yeah really
44:40
SPEAKER_01: and sometimes that's like lord you love me this much yeah you know
44:45
SPEAKER_00: Yeah I think I don't know I'm hearing so much from even what you're talking about
44:49
SPEAKER_00: the perspective of like stewardship coming through where it's like I have
44:54
SPEAKER_00: the privilege of having this life experience that some of it's really hard some
45:00
SPEAKER_00: of it's challenging I've learned from those things and now I'm
45:03
SPEAKER_00: in this unique position where like people want to do life with me in community
45:08
SPEAKER_00: and that's part of the joy and the challenge of being a part of the body of Christ
45:12
SPEAKER_00: in my opinion is like
45:15
SPEAKER_00: I think in a secular context, our relationship would be, oh, I met this guy.
45:21
SPEAKER_00: I need to connect with him because he's a business owner.
45:24
SPEAKER_00: I really want to understand how to do business well,
45:28
SPEAKER_00: and then I'm going to use him, and then I'm going to go on my merry way.
45:32
SPEAKER_00: And I think because of the brotherhood that we share in relationship with Jesus,
45:38
SPEAKER_00: it's like, oh, first and foremost,
45:41
SPEAKER_00: this is my brother and friend and family in a unique way
45:46
SPEAKER_00: that like some other random person doesn't have with me and
45:49
SPEAKER_00: so it's like there's already this built-in trust that doesn't happen in
45:56
SPEAKER_00: in relationship with people that aren't in the family of Christ.
46:01
SPEAKER_00: And obviously you love everybody and respect everybody and give that dignity to them.
46:08
SPEAKER_00: But there's a difference in doing life with other Christ followers.
46:12
SPEAKER_00: And even what you have on Monday nights is like,
46:15
SPEAKER_00: I think there's a fruition and inheritance that you're living in there.
46:20
SPEAKER_00: I think in many ways that is
46:23
SPEAKER_01: awesome and beautiful and I think I I enjoy it and love it as much if not more
46:28
SPEAKER_01: than some of these guys totally you know totally yeah you're still getting just
46:31
SPEAKER_01: as much value out of it well it helps keep me you know like I've said
46:37
SPEAKER_01: for years my plan is to wear out before I rust out and I'm feeling some of that
46:44
SPEAKER_00: Just now?
46:45
SPEAKER_00: That's crazy, man.
46:47
SPEAKER_00: Well, I think because,
46:49
SPEAKER_00: and I have this theory,
46:50
SPEAKER_00: it's probably not a new idea,
46:52
SPEAKER_00: but the more we problem solve as we get older, the younger we become.
46:59
SPEAKER_00: And I don't know,
46:59
SPEAKER_00: I will be a test case for myself in that,
47:02
SPEAKER_00: but I look at a lot of people that have had a lot of experience in life,
47:06
SPEAKER_01: and the people that are doing... That was a really, really gracious way of saying old folks.
47:10
SPEAKER_00: Yes.
47:11
SPEAKER_00: Well, I talk to a lot of old folks and so I try to find... Yeah, you're talking to one now.
47:16
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, I love it.
47:18
SPEAKER_00: I mean, I talk about this with Shelby a lot.
47:20
SPEAKER_00: Like a lot of times I wish I could skip like the next three decades
47:27
SPEAKER_00: and like end up kind of where you're at.
47:30
SPEAKER_00: Like you're living into so much...
47:33
SPEAKER_00: of the work that you did the last three decades or four decades or whatever and
47:37
SPEAKER_00: that I know that you don't get here unless you do the three four decades um
47:45
SPEAKER_00: but i know there's going to be challenge and hardship and joy and excitement
47:49
SPEAKER_00: and adventure like even what we're gearing up for now feels like you're at the top
47:55
SPEAKER_00: of a roller coaster you know the drop is coming and you can either do one
47:59
SPEAKER_00: of two things you can hold on to the handlebars and be so
48:03
SPEAKER_00: like fear of like I don't know what's I don't like roller coasters
48:07
SPEAKER_00: or you can be like you know what there's some safety here I'm in a I'm in
48:10
SPEAKER_00: a harness that's Jesus in this analogy or whatever that's probably not
48:15
SPEAKER_00: a great analogy but you're going to go down the drop and you can decide
48:19
SPEAKER_00: to either enjoy the adventure of it or yeah you can freak out and worry and
48:25
SPEAKER_00: and either way you're going to go on the roller coaster so like how do you want
48:28
SPEAKER_00: to what perspective do you want to have with it
48:31
SPEAKER_01: You know,
48:32
SPEAKER_01: it's just as you were just,
48:33
SPEAKER_01: you know,
48:34
SPEAKER_01: sharing all that part of, you know, Becky, our favorite vacations are road trips.
48:40
SPEAKER_01: I mean, our honeymoon was a road trip around the country for a month in my old beater van.
48:46
SPEAKER_01: And it's a good thing I brought a toolbox because I had to fix some big stuff.
48:49
SPEAKER_00: What kind of van?
48:50
SPEAKER_00: Just an old Ford van.
48:51
SPEAKER_01: Epic.
48:52
SPEAKER_01: You know?
48:52
SPEAKER_00: That's awesome.
48:53
SPEAKER_01: And so we had, so we, I mean,
48:55
SPEAKER_01: yeah it's our honeymoon you know we did one night in a hotel
48:58
SPEAKER_01: and it was probably it seemed like it was in a snowstorm in Colorado and
49:03
SPEAKER_01: a place it was like we got to turn around and went back
49:06
SPEAKER_01: and it was I mean it almost seemed like
49:08
SPEAKER_01: the Bates Motel you know it was just it was talking about an adventure yeah
49:12
SPEAKER_01: on Halloween night right oh my god it was I kid you not I'm not making this stuff up
49:16
SPEAKER_01: I don't have to make stuff up because some of the stuff was just
49:18
SPEAKER_01: so bizarre well anyway to this day uh our favorite
49:24
SPEAKER_01: vacations are road trips right and and I just you know it what made me think
49:29
SPEAKER_01: of this is when you just said hey you know you want like
49:33
SPEAKER_01: the fast forward you know three decades and everything and I'm thinking
49:38
SPEAKER_01: for me yeah I like to have a destination but for me it's the excitement of
49:45
SPEAKER_01: the journey yeah
49:46
SPEAKER_01: you know and and and that's translated like I said from our honeymoon
49:50
SPEAKER_01: to 45 years later our yeah our our favorite vacations are still
49:55
SPEAKER_01: because it's what you see and experience along the way and then the fact
50:00
SPEAKER_01: that we've got windshield time you know sometimes we will listen to books you know
50:05
SPEAKER_01: while we're doing it sometimes we listen
50:07
SPEAKER_01: to music sometimes we're just talking yeah sometimes it's just you know you have
50:11
SPEAKER_01: that and and actually
50:14
SPEAKER_01: there's time I've driven cross-country solo more times than I can account back
50:19
SPEAKER_01: and forth right and
50:21
SPEAKER_01: and some people say well what do you argue it I said well sometimes I do
50:24
SPEAKER_01: but sometimes I don't put anything on yeah because
50:28
SPEAKER_01: that solo uninterrupted windshield time gives me time
50:32
SPEAKER_01: to develop thoughts you know you have an idea and it's like and my quote a ranger
50:38
SPEAKER_01: which is one of my top five strengths it's like I'm gonna run that down a trail and
50:45
SPEAKER_01: You know some sort of a rabbit trail until it's like okay.
50:48
SPEAKER_01: Well, no, that's not gonna work.
50:49
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, let's try this one.
50:50
SPEAKER_01: Let's and I love those uninterrupted yeah times just to think through yeah ideas
50:58
SPEAKER_01: and situations and all of that, you know, it's just that's and again I
51:03
SPEAKER_01: those quote giftedness like that that's just how God's uniquely wired each one
51:08
SPEAKER_00: of us yeah yeah well and and I think like there's I mean there's so much
51:14
SPEAKER_00: within what you all of what you just said that we could go down all
51:17
SPEAKER_00: the rabbit trails of having a partner that that you can do that with
51:21
SPEAKER_00: and being intentional about like taking a month off when you got married and
51:25
SPEAKER_00: the adventure of like but yeah I think like
51:31
SPEAKER_00: the caution and the challenge that I feel in this day and age is like there's
51:36
SPEAKER_00: so much noise and to your point like how do you have how do you have windshield time
51:43
SPEAKER_00: for lack of a better way of saying that like how do you have uninterrupted time
51:47
SPEAKER_00: to be with your own thoughts and to be with the Lord and you've got
51:50
SPEAKER_00: to be I mean more so now
51:52
SPEAKER_01: than ever you know oops oh you're all good I'm all good yeah more so now
51:58
SPEAKER_01: than ever other side yeah
52:01
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it might have fallen off.
52:03
SPEAKER_00: Oh, it's still on there.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: Perfect.
52:04
SPEAKER_01: All right.
52:08
SPEAKER_01: These things,
52:10
SPEAKER_01: you know,
52:10
SPEAKER_01: you need to be able to,
52:12
SPEAKER_01: and you know, a lot of times I'll text you and I don't get an immediate response.
52:16
SPEAKER_01: And I'm like, good for him.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: I think.
52:19
SPEAKER_01: No, good for him.
52:20
SPEAKER_00: I'm trying to get better at that because I grew up in the, I need a response immediately.
52:27
SPEAKER_00: And especially in the
52:30
SPEAKER_00: and this is a tension that I'm a question I'm working through as
52:35
SPEAKER_00: a hypothetical business owner as I step into that season is like what is the tension
52:42
SPEAKER_00: of being available to my customers and clients and being responsive and then what is
52:48
SPEAKER_00: the tension of like helping them creating boundaries
52:51
SPEAKER_00: to basically say like Matt is here for you Matt cares about you
52:55
SPEAKER_00: and loves you ultimately but
52:59
SPEAKER_00: Matt's not going to answer your call unless it's an emergency for some reason
53:03
SPEAKER_00: after 5pm or whatever that looks like and so creating the boundaries to build
53:08
SPEAKER_01: a sustainable urgency to something you know but you know it's just like
53:13
SPEAKER_01: where are we having lunch tomorrow you know that's not urgent yes well to me that's
53:17
SPEAKER_00: the most urgent because a good meal is that's how you I don't know
53:24
SPEAKER_01: but you know looking at that and determining that too
53:28
SPEAKER_01: there's something that I heard actually not too long ago and it made a lot of sense
53:33
SPEAKER_01: to me just from the aspect of you know you have all different kinds of people
53:39
SPEAKER_01: in your life that you know you mentioned setting boundaries on things and
53:45
SPEAKER_01: so what goes along with that is that you know I'll just tell you this statement
53:52
SPEAKER_01: that I heard it said accept people how they are and
53:56
SPEAKER_01: because you're not going to change them and trying to change somebody is just going
53:59
SPEAKER_01: to be a frustration and all the other stuff that goes along with it
54:04
SPEAKER_01: so accept people how they are but place them where they need to be right
54:09
SPEAKER_01: with regards to trust level engagement you know just all of that
54:17
SPEAKER_01: and it's not it's not a bad thing I think there's wisdom yeah in that you know
54:24
SPEAKER_01: because
54:26
SPEAKER_01: you know we're all going to encounter people that they're on
54:30
SPEAKER_01: a one-way street they're all takers yeah and so you know it doesn't mean you have
54:36
SPEAKER_01: to be mean to them or anything but accept them how they are but place them
54:40
SPEAKER_00: where they need to be that's well said yeah right yeah that's uh that reminds me of
54:48
SPEAKER_00: the the not changing people that was something that I thought a lot about
54:52
SPEAKER_00: when I was seriously dating Shelby
54:55
SPEAKER_00: and was thinking about proposing to her was like,
54:58
SPEAKER_00: am I okay with this person, like being with this person if they never changed?
55:03
SPEAKER_00: Which is kind of an oxymoron because you obviously, people change all the time.
55:09
SPEAKER_00: That's humanity, is evolution within your lifetime.
55:13
SPEAKER_01: Well, that's part of the excitement.
55:14
SPEAKER_01: It's also part of the rub.
55:16
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
55:16
SPEAKER_00: And so as maybe ruthless as it was at the time, I made like a pros and cons list.
55:24
SPEAKER_00: and was just like these are the things I like about her these are
55:26
SPEAKER_00: the things I don't see that's thoughtful yeah yeah I think most people hear that
55:30
SPEAKER_00: and they're like seriously ma'am but I think of that as thoughtful like I want to be
55:35
SPEAKER_00: the best partner I can for her and like I want her to be the best partner she can
55:40
SPEAKER_00: for me
55:42
SPEAKER_00: And so basically like the things that were annoying like I'm usually
55:46
SPEAKER_00: a little more clean than she is I'm usually cleaning up.
55:50
SPEAKER_01: Are you sure you want to put this on a podcast?
55:51
SPEAKER_00: I know exactly.
55:53
SPEAKER_00: This is all stuff she already knows.
55:54
SPEAKER_00: Oh, okay.
55:56
SPEAKER_00: I made the mistake of telling her.
55:57
SPEAKER_01: I can leave the back door open for you.
55:59
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
56:00
SPEAKER_00: I might need to stay here.
56:02
SPEAKER_00: Can I bring my daughter too?
56:04
SPEAKER_00: No, I...
56:06
SPEAKER_00: but thankfully she knows all of this and I made the mistake of well maybe it wasn't
56:11
SPEAKER_00: a mistake but I told her about this pros and cons list before like I asked her
56:16
SPEAKER_00: so this that could have gone one of two ways I guess it's better than finding it in
56:21
SPEAKER_01: a dresser drawer two years later yeah exactly
56:24
SPEAKER_00: but I think my conclusion was like she's going to change anyway and she's going
56:29
SPEAKER_00: to change in ways that I do and don't like and then so are you yeah exactly and
56:34
SPEAKER_00: so I think with that perspective really and the things that what I never had
56:39
SPEAKER_00: that problem yeah exactly nobody nobody except me yeah it's okay we'll fix
56:44
SPEAKER_00: that thank you thank you but I think the the conclusion was just like
56:50
SPEAKER_00: this is so valuable and also important to remember that like you can live within
56:58
SPEAKER_00: the preferences that I have shouldn't dictate wholly like the decisions that I make
57:04
SPEAKER_00: because my preference is to be lazy a lot of the time but the discipline
57:09
SPEAKER_00: of like doing stuff is incredibly valuable
57:14
SPEAKER_00: so I don't know just what you were talking about with
57:18
SPEAKER_00: before this made me think of that.
57:20
SPEAKER_01: See, just the fact that,
57:21
SPEAKER_01: you know,
57:22
SPEAKER_01: this is why I love hanging out with guys even less than half my age because,
57:27
SPEAKER_01: number one,
57:28
SPEAKER_01: it just gives me hope, right,
57:31
SPEAKER_01: for the world coming up, right,
57:34
SPEAKER_01: because all we see around us is hopelessness, right,
57:38
SPEAKER_01: in more ways than one,
57:39
SPEAKER_01: and forget about listening to the media,
57:43
SPEAKER_01: right or left, still, right, but the other thing is just that it's like,
57:50
SPEAKER_01: When I hear this,
57:51
SPEAKER_01: and it's just how thoughtful you guys are,
57:54
SPEAKER_01: I'm like, man, you guys are light years ahead of where I was at your age.
58:00
SPEAKER_01: I mean, absolutely.
58:01
SPEAKER_01: And I just think of all the heartache
58:04
SPEAKER_01: and mistakes I could have avoided had I had someone pouring into my life at that age
58:11
SPEAKER_01: at that level.
58:13
SPEAKER_00: Well I think that's the beauty of people like you being vulnerable enough,
58:18
SPEAKER_00: honest enough, and willing enough to
58:22
SPEAKER_00: give us the gains that we don't have yet in pursuit of us living better lives
58:32
SPEAKER_00: in not having to make some of those same mistakes.
58:35
SPEAKER_00: We'll still make plenty of mistakes.
58:38
SPEAKER_01: You just don't need to make the same ones I made.
58:40
SPEAKER_01: Totally.
58:41
SPEAKER_00: And there's a good chance we'll still make the same mistakes.
58:45
SPEAKER_00: I mean, history is cyclical in nature in many ways.
58:49
SPEAKER_00: But yeah, I think like
58:51
SPEAKER_00: why yeah I think my challenge to myself is always why would I not invest
58:57
SPEAKER_00: in relationships that like are a lot of fun first
59:01
SPEAKER_00: of all like I love having this conversation because it's like
59:05
SPEAKER_00: an enjoyable friendship that's being built but then there's these other side effects
59:11
SPEAKER_00: of this friendship that it's like oh well Bruce has been through x y and z
59:15
SPEAKER_00: that I haven't been and he's really willing to share his experience
59:18
SPEAKER_00: and he actually like we both enjoy that mutual
59:21
SPEAKER_00: value that we're giving to each other like why would I not invest
59:26
SPEAKER_00: in something like this and
59:28
SPEAKER_01: so I think I appreciate it I enjoy this I really do thank you
59:33
SPEAKER_00: as we kind of wrap up I'm super curious and this is part of the value that I get
59:38
SPEAKER_00: from you like that I don't get from my own dad is like my dad had three boys
59:43
SPEAKER_00: that he grew up with you have two girls and I'm going to very imminently be a father
59:50
SPEAKER_00: of two girls and so I'd love to kind of hear and again this is one
59:54
SPEAKER_00: of those questions that's probably better to have beforehand but
1:00:00
SPEAKER_00: deal with it you'll have to you'll have to come up with
1:00:02
SPEAKER_00: an answer I'm not letting you off the hook for this one but what would kind
1:00:06
SPEAKER_00: of be your one piece of advice and there's so much advice already
1:00:10
SPEAKER_00: in this conversation but something to do intentionally with the girls from
1:00:17
SPEAKER_00: a young age that either you wish you had done more of or something
1:00:22
SPEAKER_00: that you're really proud that you and Becky did do I think as a dad
1:00:31
SPEAKER_01: even when they were little taking them out for an ice cream date opening
1:00:36
SPEAKER_01: the car door for them you know set the expectation high for them so
1:00:45
SPEAKER_01: that they don't settle for someone less deserving right
1:00:52
SPEAKER_01: and you know just those things I think one of the things too is
1:01:00
SPEAKER_01: you know I grew up in the area where in
1:01:03
SPEAKER_01: the era well let's just say discipline was metered out yes justifiably so 99% of
1:01:15
SPEAKER_01: the time but sometimes it was pretty harsh yeah right and
1:01:21
SPEAKER_01: so I certainly didn't repeat that yeah but
1:01:26
SPEAKER_01: there were times where you know you come home from work and I just put in and
1:01:32
SPEAKER_01: the house is in chaos because as we used to call it the bewitching hour just
1:01:36
SPEAKER_01: before dinner because the kids you know they're cranky they're hungry everything and
1:01:40
SPEAKER_01: and all Becky wanted me to do was come home and take the kids outside give her
1:01:47
SPEAKER_01: a breather whatever but no I threw fuel on the fire yeah you know
1:01:53
SPEAKER_01: and then it would just escalate and made the whole evening miserable.
1:01:58
SPEAKER_01: And then if I was,
1:02:02
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:02:04
SPEAKER_01: let's just say,
1:02:05
SPEAKER_01: and not physical punishment,
1:02:06
SPEAKER_01: but let's just say I was harsh with,
1:02:10
SPEAKER_01: you know, my young daughter and centered her room or whatever.
1:02:15
SPEAKER_01: And, you know, Becky would look at me like,
1:02:19
SPEAKER_01: married the village idiot yeah you know and I think the things too is I had
1:02:27
SPEAKER_01: to own it so I would go up to her room and just say honey you know I need
1:02:34
SPEAKER_01: to apply get down to her level yeah get down on the floor get down
1:02:38
SPEAKER_01: on my knees get down whatever
1:02:40
SPEAKER_01: and just say honey I'm I'm sorry you you didn't deserve that
1:02:46
SPEAKER_01: and I am really really sorry will you forgive me and I think that teaches them
1:02:53
SPEAKER_01: that now trust can be restored you know that I think it just it shows
1:03:00
SPEAKER_01: that shows them how to apologize when you did wrong and that and
1:03:06
SPEAKER_01: if your dad you know you know you you want to be your daughter's hero yeah right
1:03:13
SPEAKER_01: so if you're demonstrating those qualities of humility and forgiveness
1:03:18
SPEAKER_01: and just like I screwed up and ownership of mistakes you know they see
1:03:25
SPEAKER_01: that you know versus growing up with a narcissist right and again you know I serve
1:03:32
SPEAKER_01: on the board of the sheepfold you know so and I've talked with some of the ladies in
1:03:36
SPEAKER_01: the shelters and it's just whole you know you want to be
1:03:43
SPEAKER_01: the absolute antithesis of that.
1:03:46
SPEAKER_00: And so those are, I think those are a couple of key things.
1:03:51
SPEAKER_01: But just they need to feel valued in the fact that, I mean,
1:03:55
SPEAKER_01: and all the way up through,
1:03:56
SPEAKER_01: because if they don't feel valued by their dad,
1:03:59
SPEAKER_01: they're going to seek that value in places that are not going to
1:04:04
SPEAKER_01: farewell for them.
1:04:05
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:04:06
SPEAKER_00: Well, and won't have their best interest at heart too.
1:04:09
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:10
SPEAKER_01: They need to be,
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:04:11
SPEAKER_01: I think one of the other things that I used to tell them is just, honey,
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:04:15
SPEAKER_01: I'm so, you know, like if they had an achievement, I said, I'm so proud of you.
1:04:19
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:04:20
SPEAKER_01: You know, that was wonderful.
1:04:21
SPEAKER_01: I said, but I'm more proud of who you are.
1:04:24
SPEAKER_00: Mm-hmm.
1:04:25
SPEAKER_01: yeah you don't want to tie you don't want them to feel that your love or affection
1:04:31
SPEAKER_01: or approval of them is tied to an achievement yeah you need it needs to be tied to
1:04:38
SPEAKER_01: because they're totally child of God they're your daughter and that's just
1:04:42
SPEAKER_01: that you cherish them yeah you know all of that is so that wasn't just one thing
1:04:48
SPEAKER_00: that was like 17 things
1:04:50
SPEAKER_00: that was great I think man so much
1:04:54
SPEAKER_00: of what I'm hearing is like how do I model out like what how I want them like what
1:05:01
SPEAKER_00: how am I being an example to them basically through all of that and
1:05:05
SPEAKER_00: so yeah it's like how close am I to Jesus how close am I to Shelby
1:05:11
SPEAKER_00: and parenting how close am I in community
1:05:14
SPEAKER_00: with people how am I modeling good relationship how am I modeling these things
1:05:18
SPEAKER_00: that I want them to
1:05:20
SPEAKER_01: Yeah and you know those things change over the years when they got older
1:05:23
SPEAKER_01: and quote were going out on a date or something it's like I'm sorry I need
1:05:28
SPEAKER_01: to meet this guy first if it was from school and I like you know I need
1:05:31
SPEAKER_01: to well dad I'm like I'm sorry if I don't get
1:05:34
SPEAKER_01: to meet him you're not going totally you know and
1:05:36
SPEAKER_01: then we had what was affectionately known around here is
1:05:39
SPEAKER_01: the garage talk I literally pinged the guy into the garage where there were you know
1:05:46
SPEAKER_00: as a woodworker so you know I could I could dismember
1:05:51
SPEAKER_01: I swore I was never going back but just have a really hard conversation
1:05:58
SPEAKER_01: of what my expectations were on how they were to treat my daughter how they were
1:06:05
SPEAKER_01: to respect her and I just like I'm sorry I'm not worried
1:06:11
SPEAKER_01: about some pimply faced kid this is my daughter it's my God given responsibility to
1:06:19
SPEAKER_01: provide and protect her yeah and so you know and it's it's funny how some
1:06:25
SPEAKER_01: of those garage talks were it was it became kind of a okay hey dad how'd
1:06:31
SPEAKER_01: the garage talk like rolling your eye rolling their eyes
1:06:34
SPEAKER_01: at you there was one instance hey dad how'd the garage talk go
1:06:38
SPEAKER_01: and I said he's still breathing isn't he
1:06:40
SPEAKER_01: and she goes thank you daddy thank you you know so it's it just like
1:06:45
SPEAKER_01: so that way she doesn't have to fight that battle.
1:06:48
SPEAKER_01: I've already established the ground rules.
1:06:50
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, you can be the bad guy or whatever.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, I don't care.
1:06:52
SPEAKER_01: It's not that I care about her.
1:06:56
SPEAKER_01: I'm not worried about how this kid's going to react to it.
1:06:59
SPEAKER_01: It's like either you're going to hang around or you're not.
1:07:03
SPEAKER_01: And I'm fine either way.
1:07:05
SPEAKER_01: Sounds a little harsh, but I'm sorry.
1:07:10
SPEAKER_00: These are my daughters.
1:07:11
SPEAKER_00: No, I mean...
1:07:14
SPEAKER_00: Being a dad now of daughters,
1:07:16
SPEAKER_00: I think, yeah, I think the safe route is to be like, oh, I want to be chill.
1:07:24
SPEAKER_00: I want them to like me or whatever because I want approval.
1:07:27
SPEAKER_01: They have enough friends.
1:07:28
SPEAKER_01: They need a father.
1:07:29
SPEAKER_00: Totally, yes.
1:07:30
SPEAKER_00: yeah yeah exactly and so it's like how do you how do you like get out of
1:07:36
SPEAKER_00: that mindset and and step into that role that you're talking about
1:07:40
SPEAKER_01: where it's just yeah but the other thing is this house was always the house
1:07:43
SPEAKER_01: where all the kids would come I mean they it was crazy
1:07:48
SPEAKER_01: when my oldest daughter started high school so the the high school group
1:07:53
SPEAKER_01: from church I mean they'd come over here Jana they called her mama Jana right
1:07:58
SPEAKER_01: so she'd make lunch for everybody they'd clean up the kitchen and then I'd put on
1:08:01
SPEAKER_01: a pot of spaghetti sauce yeah you know you start frying garlic and olive oil
1:08:05
SPEAKER_01: and it's just like you know it's just I'm sorry if you don't like
1:08:09
SPEAKER_01: that smell you can never be my friend yes we'll have a different type
1:08:13
SPEAKER_01: of garage talk yeah so anyway for all their college years
1:08:20
SPEAKER_01: and even after the girls were gone for college,
1:08:24
SPEAKER_01: I would have anywhere from two to 15 extra kids here for Sunday pasta.
1:08:29
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:30
SPEAKER_01: I mean, the girls are off to school.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_01: I'd see them at church.
1:08:32
SPEAKER_01: Hey, Bruce, you having pasta tonight?
1:08:35
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, come on over.
1:08:37
SPEAKER_01: I mean, they ring our doorbell.
1:08:39
SPEAKER_00: The girls were home.
1:08:40
SPEAKER_01: And then, you know, some of the guys would call me afterwards.
1:08:43
SPEAKER_01: Hey, Bruce, I got some stuff I need.
1:08:44
SPEAKER_01: You know, they're 20, 21 years old.
1:08:46
SPEAKER_01: They're calling me later and say, hey, Bruce, you know, you know, you got some time.
1:08:50
SPEAKER_01: I want to come talk to you about.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:08:51
SPEAKER_00: But those kids were always here at the house.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_01: Yeah.
1:08:54
SPEAKER_01: So we you know, we've had fun with them.
1:08:56
SPEAKER_01: I'd say, hey, I need some I need some help with something.
1:08:59
SPEAKER_01: You know, there's some other funny stories about some of those things for another day.
1:09:03
SPEAKER_01: But but it was just like.
1:09:06
SPEAKER_00: you know make them feel a part of the family have your house be the place
1:09:12
SPEAKER_00: that you can I mean this is the cynical take but like monitor your kids but
1:09:20
SPEAKER_00: the better take on that is like
1:09:22
SPEAKER_00: be the example of community that you want them to have mm-hmm and
1:09:26
SPEAKER_01: and both my daughters are
1:09:27
SPEAKER_01: that way now yeah you know it's like they they you know they love yeah people they
1:09:32
SPEAKER_01: love getting together they love helping and providing
1:09:35
SPEAKER_00: and yeah what do they say like personality is caught not taught
1:09:43
SPEAKER_00: so sounds like Sunday night caught not taught yeah yeah
1:09:48
SPEAKER_00: Yeah.
1:09:49
SPEAKER_00: Well, every end of a conversation,
1:09:52
SPEAKER_00: I ask our previous guest a question that they have for the current guest.
1:09:58
SPEAKER_00: And so the previous guest's question for you is,
1:10:03
SPEAKER_00: what's a lesson you've learned from one of your greatest failures?
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: Yep.
1:10:11
SPEAKER_01: How many more hours do we have?
1:10:13
SPEAKER_01: As long as you want.
1:10:17
SPEAKER_01: Did you bring a sleeping bag?
1:10:18
SPEAKER_01: No.
1:10:19
SPEAKER_00: Funnily enough, I was about to put one in the car this morning.
1:10:24
SPEAKER_01: That's scary.
1:10:25
SPEAKER_01: Oh, what's one of the lessons from one of my greatest failures?
1:10:30
SPEAKER_01: Okay.
1:10:32
SPEAKER_01: So, I'm going to say this statement that morphed out of that.
1:10:43
SPEAKER_01: And I think...
1:10:44
SPEAKER_01: it applied to me as an employer it applied to me as a dad it applied to me as
1:10:50
SPEAKER_01: a grandfather what you allow you encourage right
1:10:58
SPEAKER_01: so there were things you know we were talking earlier
1:11:02
SPEAKER_01: about you know you know having conversations about faith with people that we care
1:11:07
SPEAKER_01: about and one of the biggest obstacles to that is fear of rejection right
1:11:13
SPEAKER_01: or fear of confrontation right and I think I had to learn a healthy way to confront
1:11:22
SPEAKER_01: an issue and when I didn't do it things can spiral out of control right
1:11:32
SPEAKER_01: so I think just not confronting what needs to be confronted in a in a timely manner
1:11:42
SPEAKER_01: in a respectful manner and working through clarity from both sides what those expectations are.
1:11:54
SPEAKER_01: Because when you don't do that,
1:11:57
SPEAKER_01: it can damage relationships it condemn I mean it can it can hurt business it can all
1:12:04
SPEAKER_01: of it so I think just you know addressing issues that need to be addressed sooner
1:12:11
SPEAKER_00: than later yeah yeah wow that's awesome you have a question for our next guest
1:12:27
SPEAKER_01: um what's the biggest obstacle
1:12:31
SPEAKER_00: in your life right now hmm it's really good do you want me to answer
1:12:37
SPEAKER_00: that you're looking at me like you want me to answer it you want
1:12:39
SPEAKER_00: to oh um how much time do you got well I live here fair enough what is
1:12:49
SPEAKER_01: the biggest obstacle is this going to take away from your uh your the next guest
1:12:54
SPEAKER_01: if they see this
1:12:55
SPEAKER_00: um well that's assuming a lot that's assuming
1:12:58
SPEAKER_00: the next guest list watches oh I like 30 people that watch this and they're all
1:13:05
SPEAKER_00: friends and family so we're very much in
1:13:07
SPEAKER_00: the exploration experimentation okay um yeah what's the biggest challenge
1:13:13
SPEAKER_00: that I'm dealing with right now I think it's um the like and the I don't know how
1:13:20
SPEAKER_00: to say this well but um I'll I'll waterfall it out for lack of a better term um like
1:13:27
SPEAKER_00: the um
1:13:31
SPEAKER_00: the immediacy of the urgent like me feeling like I need
1:13:36
SPEAKER_00: to fix every problem this moment Tyranny the urgent yes there we go thank you
1:13:41
SPEAKER_00: that was the word that I was looking for where like one of the frameworks
1:13:45
SPEAKER_00: that I think about is like
1:13:47
SPEAKER_00: urgent and important,
1:13:49
SPEAKER_00: urgent and not important,
1:13:52
SPEAKER_00: important and not urgent and then not important and not urgent and whatever.
1:13:56
SPEAKER_01: What box do they fall in?
1:13:57
SPEAKER_00: Yeah, exactly.
1:13:58
SPEAKER_00: And so most of the tasks and problems
1:14:02
SPEAKER_00: and challenges in my life automatically go into the tyranny of the urgent
1:14:08
SPEAKER_00: where I'm just like I need to fix this problem immediately
1:14:10
SPEAKER_00: where it's like I see Shelby in discomfort because she's like almost overdue
1:14:19
SPEAKER_00: and I want the baby to come out as soon as possible and it's like
1:14:23
SPEAKER_00: of course I don't have control over that I guess on some level
1:14:26
SPEAKER_00: if we had planned like a c-section or something I would but
1:14:31
SPEAKER_00: like something like that where it's just like how do you sit in the challenge
1:14:35
SPEAKER_00: and discomfort of dealing with that or for this business idea that I'm working
1:14:40
SPEAKER_00: through like how do I get my next client or whatever that looks like
1:14:43
SPEAKER_00: and it's like well there's a process to that there's time that it takes to do
1:14:47
SPEAKER_00: that there's relationships that need to be built and so how do you make progress
1:14:51
SPEAKER_00: towards that but then how do you not kind of live in this spiral of the urgency
1:14:56
SPEAKER_00: of it where it'll happen and it'll it'll
1:15:00
SPEAKER_00: work itself out if you're doing the steps that are necessary.
1:15:04
SPEAKER_01: Well, you know,
1:15:04
SPEAKER_01: and then the other thing is, is,
1:15:06
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:15:07
SPEAKER_01: I think,
1:15:09
SPEAKER_01: you know,
1:15:09
SPEAKER_01: a problem with even trying to frame all those things is thinking that we have
1:15:15
SPEAKER_01: to do it alone.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_00: Totally.
1:15:17
SPEAKER_01: right yeah and you know and that's where you know having having
1:15:21
SPEAKER_01: a good core group around you
1:15:22
SPEAKER_01: or you can just say hey this is you know help you see things differently you know
1:15:27
SPEAKER_01: that outside looking in sometimes you know they said what's
1:15:30
SPEAKER_01: the saying you know you can't see the forest for the trees right yeah and
1:15:35
SPEAKER_01: so you know and and it's not always going to be the same person having you
1:15:41
SPEAKER_01: kind of think through each of those situations.
1:15:45
SPEAKER_01: Some of it's going to be Shelby,
1:15:46
SPEAKER_01: some of it's going to be others in your life, peers, mentors, whatever.
1:15:53
SPEAKER_01: But you said one word that I think can be a huge issue for every human being on the planet.
1:16:03
SPEAKER_01: And you just said, Shelby, when she's going to have this baby, well, I can't control that.
1:16:08
SPEAKER_01: Control yep, right controls a myth.
1:16:11
SPEAKER_01: Yeah, right So,
1:16:13
SPEAKER_01: you know when we think of control,
1:16:15
SPEAKER_01: I mean the reality of it is is okay based on the circumstances and
1:16:18
SPEAKER_01: the people involved how do I?
1:16:21
SPEAKER_01: Manipulate things to get you know,
1:16:24
SPEAKER_01: I think there's we interchange those words control and manipulate you know and
1:16:31
SPEAKER_01: So I think just being cognizant.
1:16:33
SPEAKER_01: Yeah that helps
1:16:38
SPEAKER_01: Get a reality check on, okay, well, what do I really have control over?
1:16:48
SPEAKER_01: What do I not have control over?
1:16:51
SPEAKER_01: And then being at peace with that, but not sitting back on it too, right?
1:16:57
SPEAKER_01: So again, there's that wisdom and balance that comes into that.
1:17:01
SPEAKER_00: The dynamicness of an attention.
1:17:05
SPEAKER_01: you know again I think then some of that is you know a statement from earlier
1:17:10
SPEAKER_01: where it's like accept people how they are don't try to control what you want them
1:17:14
SPEAKER_01: to be or manipulate them to be but then place them where they need to be yeah right
1:17:20
SPEAKER_01: and that will I think just realistic expectations with that yeah can be huge
1:17:28
SPEAKER_01: in decision-making and and just peace yeah
1:17:32
SPEAKER_00: yeah well and it feels like a lot of that piece comes
1:17:35
SPEAKER_00: from constantly reminding yourself of your identity and then also remembering like
1:17:43
SPEAKER_00: the faithfulness of that identity I guess in Christ where it's like man I
1:17:49
SPEAKER_00: and that's I mean that's one of the beauties of being like a arduous
1:17:55
SPEAKER_00: journaler and doing that for a long time is being able to look back and be like,
1:18:00
SPEAKER_00: oh, like Matt from three years ago is the same Matt in these ways today.
1:18:05
SPEAKER_00: And hopefully there's some growth in between there,
1:18:07
SPEAKER_00: but still worrying about the same stuff or challenged by the same things.
1:18:14
SPEAKER_00: I think that's like a call on my heart to like go further in and further deeper
1:18:19
SPEAKER_00: into relationship with Jesus where it's like, hey, how do I give this up?
1:18:22
SPEAKER_00: This semblance of control that I have and really like rest in the time that like in
1:18:29
SPEAKER_00: the perspective I think that you have that I'm hoping rubs off on me even
1:18:36
SPEAKER_00: through this conversation where it's like
1:18:39
SPEAKER_00: how we how we view things is really important the expectations we have around it
1:18:43
SPEAKER_00: where like I think a lot of the tyranny of the urgent right now is because of
1:18:48
SPEAKER_00: the perspective of like everything has to get done right now
1:18:51
SPEAKER_00: and it's like what actually does it and then stepping back
1:18:55
SPEAKER_00: and asking those questions and being a person of peace in that rather
1:19:00
SPEAKER_00: than like well just because
1:19:02
SPEAKER_00: like life is crazy peace doesn't exist in that but how are you a person of peace in
1:19:08
SPEAKER_01: the chaos of life I guess well and that's where you know Jesus doesn't always calm
1:19:13
SPEAKER_01: the storm his but he but he will calm you in
1:19:16
SPEAKER_01: the storm mmm yeah right yeah you know it's just you know and again just some of
1:19:22
SPEAKER_01: that urge to some of those urgency things they might seem urgent to you but and
1:19:28
SPEAKER_01: if you were to pursue
1:19:31
SPEAKER_01: working through those right now is is there is there some damage done in
1:19:36
SPEAKER_01: a relationship with Shelby or others or whatever you know just you brought
1:19:43
SPEAKER_01: to mind one of the conversations we had in our convene group and it was like
1:19:48
SPEAKER_01: you know we did water ski camps with our high school group for like 13 years
1:19:53
SPEAKER_00: where Becky and I were talking about that last night because she found
1:19:56
SPEAKER_01: the water ski booklets that you know that the pastors had you know and
1:20:00
SPEAKER_01: so she goes I wish we had every single year we have most of them and so
1:20:05
SPEAKER_01: but these water ski camps were great and so being able to drive in a boat
1:20:09
SPEAKER_01: and everything depending on if somebody's skiing or
1:20:12
SPEAKER_01: if they're wakeboarding whatever you want to control the wake yeah right so
1:20:16
SPEAKER_01: when you interact with somebody
1:20:18
SPEAKER_01: what's the condition of your wake how did you leave them are they better yeah
1:20:24
SPEAKER_01: for having interacted with you or are they devastated you know the guy's trying
1:20:30
SPEAKER_01: to water ski and you got to wake this high it's not good you know yeah
1:20:35
SPEAKER_01: the guy's trying to wakeboard and there's no wake at all yeah you know
1:20:38
SPEAKER_01: so how did you leave them yeah after your interaction with them it's
1:20:43
SPEAKER_01: a cool you know it's just like you know check your wake yeah
1:20:47
SPEAKER_00: you know I like that well what a way to leave off thank you for taking the time
1:20:54
SPEAKER_00: and sharing some of your story and
1:20:56
SPEAKER_00: there's a lot more of it but with the time that we have now I'm so grateful
1:21:03
SPEAKER_00: that you decided to spend this time talking with me and sharing your life
1:21:08
SPEAKER_01: so thank you Matt it's been the more I interact with you the more I look forward to
1:21:15
SPEAKER_01: the next time well that's very generous that's true